Lionel Richie

How did it feel the other night at the Oscars? Oh, good question. You know, the standing ovation. But that's that was a moment. That was a moment. 40 years to the day. I mean, that's 40 years ago. Yeah. Say you say me sitting in the audience, you know, and I said to Bruce and to Lisa, you walk up on stage, but it's not from the audience. It's from the back. And there's a standing ovation. Yeah, that was real. This is this is the this is the Academy. Yeah, I'm not going on that stage. That is the most intimidating thing in life. Now, when I was there for the first time 40 years ago, that's Jack Nicholson on the front. Oh, yeah. That's Steven Spielberg. And that's, you know, and you've got the picks and you've got the portiers and you've got you looking at Hollywood. That's the room. OK, so they let you in this fraternity sorority. Yeah. To walk out on that stage and the whole room started smiling. Yeah. And then they stood up. Yeah. OK. Smiling means they like you. Yeah. Standing up is they respect you. Absolutely. You follow me? I was touched by it. I was actually I remember walking out stage and go to Lisa. What just happened? And she said it happened again. Good to see you, man. You too. Thanks for coming. Oh, I wouldn't. I wouldn't miss this, Joe. This is this is a no brainer family affair. It's more like a visit. Yeah. In front of cameras. Yeah. That's our cameras. Oh, OK. But they kind of disappear. They like they go, well, talking to you, it's not, you know, the third eye is not on. So you don't have to worry about. And on top of that, it's always informative. Because I know you and Ben, every time you get around, I feel like I'm just being interviewed yet again. We're up to some. Well, it's not that you're just your pioneers. What I'm loving is you just keep carving. And I think you have the Italian race guard drivers theory. Yeah. What's behind you doesn't count. No. So that's a good way of putting it. Yeah. No. And I remember. I love the whole idea of, you know, what you did five years ago, what you did 10 years ago, what you did two days ago. That's behind you. What are we building on for the future? And one thing I will say about you guys the word hungry is an understatement. I say starving to death. Yeah. It's the way you all approach it. Mad dogs. Yeah. Just. And that's what you want. That's that's what happens here. Yeah. I think you just get. I think it's like some early childhood hunger thing that never leaves where you just want to go. Well, get after it every, you know, you know, I always tell people every day if you get into this business and you're in it for quick money, you know, I'll get famous and get out. OK, don't get in it because it's a hustle. Number one and number two discovery because you might find out you weren't the singer. You're the executive or you might think you're the singer. No, you're the writer or it just you discover who you are in the process of trying to make it in this business. And then on the other hand, it's a whole expression if you don't love this, don't even try it. Don't do it. Don't try it. Because I mean, I'm now officially 200 years into the business. You know, when they when they call you Mr. Mr. Richie, how are you Mr. Richie? That's officially 200 years in. But what it means is that why am I still doing this? Because it's in the blood, man. It's just a part of the business. It's part of my life DNA. Yeah. I also feel like the guys from your time were built different, you know, so it's interesting because you could say you've been here for however many decades. But you outwork people that are that are in their second or third year when they should be the one to me, I look at the definition of work is we're always working kind, you know, we're always working. But but I see the way you work and I go that is just that's somebody who's had to work. It's almost like a love language, to be honest, to put in that kind of work and the practice of it, the dedication. You have to look at, first of all, you came from, I came from, as a band. That's number one. Yeah. So you're not working for you. You're working for five. You're working for in my case, I'm working for five. Yeah. And so, you know, I made it is really we made it. Yeah. Follow me. That's number one. Number two, we were in an era where look at the competition, man. I mean, the greatest thing that ever happened was I came from a band. We had to brainwash ourselves with the baddest in the world. You know, we just finished a show with Marvin Gaye. We killed them, you know, you know, because you've got to have that mindset that we're the baddest things in the world. You have to. That's your core. And so I've always had the kind of feeling that when the red light comes on, that's the red light. That's that's the red light. Now, when that red light turns green, you don't know when that red light is going to come back on again. That means hustle. And along the way, you discover, you discover that you can do things. I didn't join the band to be the lead singer. I was a saxophone. Yeah. How did that happen? Strictly by it. I always forget that you play saxophone. I always brag. So in case someone calls me to the mat, they say, man, didn't you play saxophone? I said, no, man, I held that saxophone better than anybody else you ever saw in life. You know, I could spin it. I could dance with it and never once. I said, why? Yeah, yeah. You know, when did the piano start? It was always there. I just did it secretly off to the side because Mylon Wimms was the keyboard player for the Commodore, so I didn't have to have that pressure. But I could play by ear, but I didn't know how precious it was to be able to play by ear. I didn't know. It just. You keep thinking that I'm the only one in the group that's not quite adequate enough. Why? I can't read or write music. So if you can't read or write music and you're not the lead singer and you're the horn holder, what's the future? Hang with these guys as long as you can and find something else to kind of pivot to as time goes on. But I didn't realize it, but I got in the business and found out that playing by ear, everybody was doing it, you know? And so you start fooling around with Barry Gordy and Marvin Gaye and Paul McGartin. And you start realizing, oh, these guys play by ear. What are you talking about? And then you learn that, well, I can hear. And once you learn that that's that Martian side, where you can kind of tap into the other side, it just becomes magic where, but I was very insecure from my beginning stages. Didn't know what the heck I was doing. But again, by being in this cocoon of band, of group, you know, you kind of develop your, your mojo, get your thing going. But it's, it kind of worked out for the insecurity side. It's interesting because I always wonder, like, when did you realize you were the songwriter? You know, I'm just going to stop for a minute. You keep saying, this is the podcast. You know, you do this every time we sit down. I know. I never got to actually, but what I will say is. I feel like we're at dinner, right? Well, we are, but I will say this is I do feel like we've gotten to have over the years, we've actually known each other for almost 20 years. That's ridiculous. And you have been my father-in-law, which is crazy. If you can imagine, I can't imagine what that would be for you. No, I imagine that you I'm trying to think of somebody that could be your father-in-law. That would give you the size of when you're a kid. You meet this girl and then you're like, you're going to meet my dad. Like, I didn't really put that together until I put it together. And I don't know how I feel about this, but and I can only imagine how you felt. But it's interesting because from my perspective, by the time I had met you, right, I mean, you have this legacy, you have these songs, you have this big. You were so nervous. I was just going to tell you there were so many levels of nerves. I felt so sorry for you that I was going to joke with you. I was going to wreck your kid around. And I said, I can't kid around this kid. This this guy might fall out dead on the floor. You're correct. Yeah. And you kept saying, oh, man, you know, like, you know, I, you know, you are you're lying on. And you actually know when I'm nervous. Oh, no, I got you. Over the years, you've seen me in some key moments. Well, listen, and weddings or that. And you're trying ever so you try to represent. I'm terrible. And I had to go between. Go just breathe, Joel, just breathe. They'll be over in just a moment. Terrible in real life. But I have to give like a speech or something. But let me let me talk about just about two seconds as father-in-law. You know, what you pray for in life is, you know, obviously, your daughter falls in love with a guy and, you know, and there's either an oh no moment or oh yes moment. You came in so respectful. It was ridiculous. I was raised well like that. Yeah. And too scared to death. Hat in hand. Terrified. Literally. Hat in hand. Hat in hand. I took the hat off. I took the hat off. Mr. Richie Ray. And you know, and I was nervous. I know you were you nervous. And so the the bonding moment that I was going to reveal is the bonding moment for me. And you was at the end. You said, you just want to let you know, Mr. Richie, I got this. And I said, no, you don't. Yeah. And you said, well, what do you what do you talk about? I said, no, no, no, no guy that falls in love has it. You are now being controlled by the other side. You see me through all the. You said, you said, OK, now I said, so here's how it works. When you can't figure it out, coming to me, I've been living with her longer than you have. Yeah. And you took me up on it a couple of times and you said, oh, OK, I got this. But you know, it's it was a bonding moment for us because, you know, what a father-in-law really prays for is that the guy loves his daughter. That's the key. That's the key. That absolutely is the bottom line. Bottom line. Yeah. And so from that point on, we bonded right away. And then, of course, we just happened to be in the same business. So now, unlike awkward conversation with a guy who was maybe an lawyer or a doctor, we actually have some we can talk about. Well, there are. But I will say this. There are different types of us in this business. Yeah. Yeah. So you get the wrong guy in this business and you're just like, oh, God, I'm married, my daughter married this guy. But what you hope for in in. But you're right at the core, whether it's this business or that business or that business, if as long as she didn't pick a shister and a guy who doesn't want to work or, you know, or a guy who isn't honest enough to we know them, we know them all. So you can't you can't you met them all the way. You can't play with us. But the thing that I've appreciated over the over the last two decades is every now and then we'll find ourselves. I'll never forget one night we were on a family vacation in the Bahamas. Remember? Oh, yeah. And we we stayed up till like 3 a.m. Because everyone had gone to bed, but you're kind of a night out sometimes. Yeah. And I was up and we were talking. And I felt like this is the complicated part. So I'm lucky because I get to come from, you know, growing up where I grew up in the sticks in Maryland on this journey all the way. Not too different from, you know, your story, your band, Toskey, where you are. Is a different stories, but similar. You understand the experience coming from this little place. And then you come into the world and you're just like, what the heck? Well, how the fuck does this place work? Yeah. And then the first few years, you kind of believe everyone is who they say they are. And then you find out that's not how this works. No, no, no. But I've gotten the perspective of that. That's unique. Whereas Nicole grew up in your house. Right. So she already had a she had a different experience with the world because she was on your ride. Well, this was on place. This is her playground. Right. This whole business of hocus pocus. She knows all the hocus and the pocus, you know, because she does. Which has been very helpful to me. Yeah, yeah. Because she got in when we were, you know, in our late 20s. She started helping me navigate. Yeah. She's like, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. She was not blinded by the light. She's sharp. Yeah, she's sharp. So the last 20 years I've gotten a front row seat watching your life. Yeah. So I get to watch you in, you know, with you sometimes. Yeah, yeah. And then from the outside. And I find that what you've achieved in the world is something that is it's very thin air. It's very few men have achieved what you've achieved, which can to me, from my perspective, can feel like it could be lonely and isolating at times. It can be heavy at times. Yeah. It can probably be also full of amazing experiences and all the all the things, all the all the great stuff that you can imagine. But then you've come up to me many times because you can read now. You've been long enough to read. Now, can I read you stressed out? You can read me stressed out. So I'll get a phone call. I'll make everybody private with this. I'll get a phone call from you going, you OK, pop up? Yeah, which means I know you're off the cliff somewhere, you know, and it's true, you know, trying to navigate, you know, the the present while scheming on the future and carrying carrying the back. There you go. So, you know, a lot of times it's a lot of times there are people who just say, I don't want to do this anymore because it's too heavy to carry. Yeah. My philosophy has always been I spent the first luckily the first 30, 40 years of my career. OK, this is famous, but just famous and recognizable famous. OK, now I tried it one time to say, I'm out. Thank you very much. I'm kind of drift over to the side and then I found out something whether I say I'm in it or not. I'm at the restaurant. I'm in it. You're in it. When I leave my house, I'm in it. We can't shut it off. I can't shut it off. And what you pray for in this business is not that I can't shut it off. The public can't shut it off. Yeah. So what was I thinking about? You mean the light is still green and I'm still trying to what turn it red? So I had to make that decision to go, OK, I am going to now turn in this full time. The rocket is flying now. Let's find out how fast this rocket can go and how high can we get? And it's been a nice, consistent run because, like I say, to get here. And first of all, to live to get here. That's the best. The first thing to live to outlive the the damage of success and fame in this business in a time when what I've seen is is obviously we know the cautionary tales. We all know we don't need to name the name. I mean, it's it's you know, it's not survivable. It's hard. Yeah. Let me just say this is not survivable. So, you know, it's in our old. It's a lot of times you get here and think, OK, I just want to be famous. And then then you realize, OK, the rocket is flying. OK, now this is really fast. Oh, OK. And then you realize there's a moment where you don't have control of the rocket. Yeah, you don't get to choose. You don't get to choose, which is what I was saying when I think about the times that we've gotten to have over the years where I'd say this, for you to go out to dinner, there's a few people that I know, very few people. It's it's like I said, it's thin air for you to go out to dinner and actually be able to have an uninterrupted, meaningful conversation or hang with your family. Imagine what was that? So and so is going through something or this or that. You don't get to have an uninterrupted self family time. Family time. No, no, no, no, no. Not out in the world anyways. No, no, no. Forget about it. So to be able to catch up a night or a moment with you, like I was saying in the Bahamas, it stands out to me, I remember. So a few actual moments I could name that I remember getting to feel as if I in the moment, I was like, oh, this is the guy that was in the van with the Commodore. This is the guy I heard the guy in Tuskegee, because as people, as men or whatever, there's pieces of us that we can evolve, we can grow. But there's moments where you'll see me as the kid from Maryland. And then there's moments where I'm the guy I have to be right now in this moment. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, to be in my shoes in this life. And by the way, that's healthy. Yeah. If you can actually see those two people. Yeah. Because I their days when the last thing you really want to do is wake up as Lionel Ritchie. You want to wake up, I wake up every morning as the kid from Alabama. Right. Now, the wonderful part about it is I get to stagger into the bathroom, depressed because this is happening and I can't and I'm not sure about this. And the kids are in the what about the thing. And then you look in the mirror and go, oh, Hallelujah. Lionel Ritchie. Lionel, I forgot. Good to see you, Lionel. You know, thank God you're in the mirror. You know, they could be a thousand and one people. That real life was scary. So do I want to give that brother up? No, I do not. Thank God I made friends with him. We made it. We made it. Thank God. That's funny. No, it's really it's really a moment where it's a love had relationship because again, it's Nicole's birthday or it's Sparrow's birthday or whatever the case may be. And yeah, what I try to do is I try to find me a nice place over the corner. Because if you can't celebrate it the way you want to celebrate it, because we're in a restaurant, it's impossible. You can't and you don't want to upstage their birthday. You know, but at the same time, you know, I have one feeling about I have one look out of my eye that I know that I've spent my whole life with my kids and that is when they go out with me, it's always. Here we go. Here we go. And I remember taking miles out one day of all things. I don't know who talked me into it. But we're going to Sea World and let somebody talk me in it. It's time for you to be, you know, a parent and you go to Sea World on the bus. You go on the bus with the rest of the kids and the parents. The meet and greet is eight hours long. And I said, yes, I made the mistake. What was I thinking? And I'm on the school bus and we get down and there's Shamu or whatever the brother's name was, you know, and I'm still in captivity. She's the racist. And you relate to him. Are you right? You know what? And I knew I was in trouble because on the way down, the parents, could I get a picture? Just I just want to get a picture. And just the message. Can I get it? OK, now we get off the bus. And when I get off the bus, the first thing the driver said was, Lionel, you might want to stay here just for a moment. So Miles looked at me and said, oh, oh, right. And then three of his friends who was so cute, they said, OK, OK. Miles said, OK, you guys, you got to protect my dad. And I said, wait, I'm here to protect you. These little mice are running around here and talking about they have to protect me. And they're buffing. They are now my buff on this thing. Dad, stay here. Dad, stay here. Hold on, hold on, just a minute. And then this lady, this lady. And so I said, I'm with my kids. And OK, I understand. But meanwhile, I'm getting the same attention as the whale. Right. That's right. The shark. Jamu has his own father today. And I didn't realize I did not realize it's fucked up. Forget it. It's fucked up. I couldn't have said that better. You know what? I say this to say that this is why I say this only so people can understand. It's not that I'm saying we laugh about it. We're not complaining. No, no, no, no, no. I've never heard you once. No. Talk shit about no, no, no. Any one person's ever come up to you. I have a little bit like, man, there's some hygiene questions there or whatever. Yeah, I'm just saying, I've gotten to have an experience you can no longer have. You haven't been able to have in decades. And I would say that when I'm around you and over the years, we've gotten to become close. So I feel like I know you in a way where I can be honest. You feel my pain. And I feel your pain. And at the same time, what I try to explain. You set out to make music. You tried your best. You couldn't. It's not that you couldn't have planned, but you shot for the stars and you hit the stars. You and so the legacy, the size, the songs, the way the cultural, where they live in the culture across decades, not just a decade or two or three. And then now American Idol, the way that you've you've been in the the world also, not just American culture, but the legacy is bigger than and it's something that you couldn't have ever been prepared for. You couldn't have planned for it. And so when I see that as a guy who's also gotten to know the real person that's living in the life and had these moments across two decades of shared, you know, all kinds of emotional emotion stuff because I had to call you in. Nicole was pregnant. I had to call you when I was going to ask her to marry me. We've had to go. The families go through stuff. So you're right. You're dealing with real life, right? Real stuff. Real. So we get to know each other. And so I still I but I still have a front row view of when you go back out. I don't have to go out there with you. No, no, no, no, no. But I mean, I can take it one step further. I mean, try to go to a friend's funeral. Right. OK. It it's it's about the friend in the box or is about the person. And you know, it's the celebrity shows up and they and it's the weirdest thing. It's it's a it's a funeral, you know. And so you have to debate some days. Do I want to go to the wedding or do I want to go to the funeral? But why? Because as I told my friend, I don't think I want to come. He said, no, no, I'm insisting that you come to the wedding. I said, I'm telling you, you don't want me to come to your wedding. And he says, no, no, no. So what? Here's his wedding pictures. There he is at the altar. There he is. And coming back down the aisle and then the reception, there's pictures of me and the mother-in-law is a picture. I'm in the picture. Then he's no longer. He's no longer. Better not be a goddamn piano there because everyone's got to be looking at. Did you say that? My look at it. Yeah, you know, you're in trouble. But what I always think about, I'm just being honest. I got it. What I always think about is after watching that. And, you know, I call you sometimes and I say, how are you doing? Are you OK? Everything cool. It's on time. But what I always think about, it's not. We joke about all of it only because I want. I do think that people don't stop to think about the experience of living in that life and carrying this legacy that people have taken. And it's bigger than any person could be. And it's an amazing thing. It's like something that no one gets to do in their life. But to me, I always wonder how the weight, the weight of it and the it's just you're never going to escape. No. And again, like I say for everyone listening, it's a wonderful thing. It's amazing. Yeah. But at some point to reconcile that and sometimes in moments where again, you just wanted to take your kid on a field trip, be a dad and participate. And yeah, you can't. No. And to go even one step further, it gets to be really kind of trying. Because it's one thing. What did Elvis say one time? It's it's lonely in a sea of world of people who love you. Yeah. OK. And it's not loneliness. What you really want is, you know, I love your dad is more powerful than any the world loving you. Yeah. You know what I'm saying? That is real, man. You know what I'm saying? I mean, that is, you know, when you. A fan grabbing you and hugging you and then happy to see you come home. Thank you very much. It's wonderful. But you know, but but your kid coming up to you, oh my God, do you see him crying when they see you? That's that's the story. That's that's it. And it's an adjustment of time. You know, you know this business, it never stays here in the center. So when you were going to sleep that night with a number one record, you woke up the next morning and the new number one record is over here. Wasn't number one. It was the right. And then you have to they use that terrifying phrase, what you got next, which means, OK, I got to get another one. And then if you get that right, another one. And then if you get that right, it's another. Meanwhile, that's four years past. That's five years past. OK, now your kid, you OK, that was good. But where's little Bobble, booboo, booboo, booboo. No, booboo, Bobba is going to college. Yeah. Booboo, Bobba is graduating from high school. And so now you've got to realize was it that much time? And so you start dedicating these moments as I remember Sophie was playing soccer. And am I going to miss the soccer? This is the final tournament. This is it, you know, and. Well, how do you get there? Now you do that. And so Pop Pop shows up in a helicopter. Two hills over, you know, because the last thing you want to do is show up in a helicopter in the middle of the family. That's not what you want. But you got to get there. And so you land and you show up and you kill it. And but you've got to show that night. You know, you know, and in East Chopp somewhere. And you're trying to balance these very important moments. And so, you know, you you don't really realize. I always say to people what comes with success or sacrifices. Yeah, oh, yeah. And there are some people who get to a certain point, they say, I don't want to sacrifice anymore. And I get it. You know, unfortunately, what happened in my case, the light was still green. And that's number one. And number two, I'm in love with this. This is not something I did till I got famous. This is what I do when I'm off. When I am off, I I go to the studio or I go on tour or, you know, someone said to me, you know, when are you going to take a vacation? I said, I booked three tours. What do you think? Yeah. And you meet me going to vacation and pay for it. Number one, or go on vacation and lie by the pool and take selfies all day with people. What the hell is, you know, that's not going to happen. You know, so where am I going to go to hang out at the pool? My house. That's right. So other than that, the world, and by the way, the blessing, don't let me sound like I'm complaining. Not at all. If you're lucky enough to get one record, one, one record, Frank Sinatra said this to me, if you're lucky enough to get one record that the whole world asks you to sing over and over again, you got yourself a career. He said, you, you lucky son of a bitch. He said, not only do you have more than one, but you wrote them all. Yeah. Now that's not lucky. That's blessings. That's a blessing. And then you've got, it didn't become a hit in America. It became a hit around the world. That's a blessing. And then you get to the point where you want to share that and experience that. And it becomes really what you realize is this is not going to be my second choice fallback. This is it. And then what would my life be like without it? I don't know because I can't, I didn't have a plan B. And so at this stage right now, enjoying watching the family grow at the same time, not being there every day. And I say this to people all the time, my dad didn't do peanut butter in jelly sandwiches at school. No, he provided for us. Yeah. You found that was that's also the other thing when you say it all. And I know, I know you're not complaining because I know. No, no, no, no, no, no, no, this is what I have come to not a conclusion. But what I've come to understand is only a very short list of people on the planet who have achieved what you have. This just is what it is. It's just it's and that have survived it. Yeah, because it kills. It's killed them. It will kill you. And it's lethal. This is a lethal business. And I also understand that I leave room for trying to understand because I love this stuff. I love music. I love. I love this thing that we get to be a part of this. Right. It's legendary shit. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. And when I see what I've gotten to see as your son-in-law, as your son, as your friend, sometimes as your road dog and some, some time, you know, I've gotten to come along in different spots and get a perspective that's unique because I've also done some of it. Not on the level, but I've done it, you know. And so I have some experience in when I look at it, I just go, I don't know if someone chose that or if it chose them and that they and there's some divine. And well, let me let me clear. It is divine guidance. Yeah, I'm going to. That's what I think. It's divine guidance. If you could tell me right now, men, what were you thinking when you started with the Commodores? Well, looking at my math grades, I was not going to be some incredible economics, even though economics was my thing. You know, and the nervousness of, well, how do I get into business? You know, economics, can you imagine that? That's not even a subject anymore. Is it right now? You know, because it changes every day now. You know, math, OK, everything that I'm going to put down as a calculation. Oh, they threw me out. Get this now of math class, because I brought a Commodore calculator to class. It's the size of my chest. Yeah. OK. Yeah, that's cocky. Big ass cocky. And the first thing that happened was they said, Mr. Rich, you're cheating. I said, no, this is the future. This is the calculator. And they said, we're interested in what you know about math. Well, this was not this was too slow for me. I'm out, you know. So what I learned over this craziness as I was leaving the room, I said, this is a mistake kicking me out of class mistake. I'm the future. And they were all laughing at you. But then it became apparent to me, life begins at the end of your comfort zone. Yeah. OK. Are you comfortable? You're not growing. OK. So Commodore's first song. What year was that? That's 75. Wow. 74, 75, 76. OK. Is it the same as 80? No. Was it the same as 85, 90? 2005, 2005. No. Each time you had to reinvent, I had to reinvent myself. So when someone says, how does it feel playing the same songs every night? No, no, it's not the same song. It's not the same time. It's not the same era. It's not the same clothes. It's not the same mental attitude. When I started, I had no kids. I had no divorces. I had nothing. I was a free spirit to the world. And all of a sudden you're now walking through this world with a OK. You those jokes that you used to hear other artists talk about. I got a couple of them. Yeah. You know, you know, and it's not as easy as you thought it was going to be, you know, and how could that guy let that happen? Well, it's very simple. How could these the Beatles break up? How could the Beatles break up when they how could the temptations break up? How could the miracles break up? And then you realize, I know exactly how they broke up. You know, it's just that it's life. How to navigate this? Unfortunately, you're going to have to scare yourself to death to get to the next level. And I'm going to give you the analogy in my head. All you see is made it, made it, made it. Right. OK. That's not how it works. It's made it. Then that's the top of the mountain. Then you have to go back down in the valley and you have to fight your way up to the next made it. It's over there. The next mountain top is over. You don't jump from mountaintop to mountaintop. Now, here's the only problem. You can die down in the valley. Yeah. That's when you organize yourself to change your concepts and your patterns. And then you go back up again and then you get to the next mountaintop. And just when you're trying to take a good break, say, I made it. Someone walks away and says, I bet you can't do that again. You've got to be kidding me. And then that's the 80s and that's called the 90s. That's called 2000. In fact, if you don't do it again, you're worthless. You're worthless. You know what I mean? That's how it feels. And everyone keeps talking about your catalog. No, no, no. It was not a catalog. It was one song at a time. Yeah. And you know, it's in between those one songs. Tara. Yeah. Absolute Tara. And so a lot of people can't take the pressure. There's pressure. It's pressure and sacrifice. And they all and sacrifice and what they all have as the storyline of life. Well, when I got out of rehab, yeah, I was at a near death. You know why that is? It is near death because it's not a navigating. You can't read a book and say, this is how to do it. Because your personal story is going to be different from my personal story. We all kind of get to the same place, maybe. But can you survive your story? That's that's the hard part. And so what I'm celebrating always is is when people ask me, how did you do it? One day at a time, but also have, you know, preparation is everything. Preparation. Talk to some people who actually been there before. My greatest, greatest success was that I had sitting in that hallway, sitting in that studio, that's Smokey Robinson over there. That's Marvin Gaye sitting over there. Stevie Wonder sitting over there. These are my label mates. And it was only one or two studios you could record in. It's called Motown Studios, LA, California. Who would you say stood out to you as the most encouraging? Smokey. Smokey. Smokey. Marvin in terms of songwriting and just, but you didn't tell it to you. You just had to watch him. Yeah. The fact that they allowed me in the room. Right. I was called Little Brother. Yeah. Little Brother and sit open the corner of Little Brother and have watched him freestyle. You know, he just waited. Did he write it down? No, he didn't write it down. Did you feel like you belong there and you were just waiting for the ball? I think God gave me a moment to kind of watch the professionals play. Before the light hit me. I appreciated that. Yeah. Because I remember one time sitting in a writing session with the corporation. This is a group of guys, group of artists that get together and they would write lyrics to tracks at Motown. I was invited one time and I thought, oh, yeah, finally they want to they want to see me do this. Right. And I walk in the studio and around the table and they play the track and they get the dot us and I spent the entire time going up, up, up, up. Yeah. And then, OK, that's it. Thanks, guys. Why? Proves. Right. I learned how to tell a story. It's only three minutes and 45 seconds. It's only four lines in the first verse. It's not a whole lot of stuff. So I wasn't quite ready for that kind of songwriting. You know, you get the you get your eye, your ear focused on what are you looking for? That's what you learn there. So I call it Motown University. And then at the same time, studying Barry Gordy was also very cool. You know, because this is a record guy who was business. Yeah. No matter what economics course I could take at Tuskegee or Auburn, that's Barry Gordy. Yeah. You know, and so it's really powerful when you can start thinking about what did they give me? They gave me the time to see what professional look like. Pros. Mm hmm. And from that point on, my edge was easy. Then all I had to do. But again, as a little kid inside of you going, I could have I could have given it to him. I mean, I could have done it. I was just wanted. The answer is they kick my ass. Yeah. I was as much as I thought I was ready. That's the NBA. That's the real. Yeah. That's the real game. So no matter what my jump shot, I thought I had. I wasn't at that level, but they taught me so much about purpose and just just narrowing my vision. Because the most important thing is when you go into songwriting, just give you a point, you got to know what you're looking for. Mm hmm. Period. If you don't know what you're looking for, you can't hit it. You know, my music teacher, when they were trying to teach me how to read music, I was going to do it, did it, did it, did it. And my teacher said, put the horn down, come into me. Because if you can't hum it, you can't play it. That's the answer. Well, melody is the same way. You know what I'm saying? If you can't hum it, then so that's the most important part of the whole thing. And for me, it was just a moment in time of getting those folks to share to share. So now you see me on American Idol now. I feel really great about being there because that's me standing could be back there at a time when I'm going, I got this. And I'm going, no, you don't. Not yet. Yeah. There's some things you need to know. And I'm now that guy at Motown Studios passing on that wisdom to them. Do you like making TV? I do. So do I. Yeah. Well, you know what it is. TV, TV. Did we say TV? We feel they didn't say that. Yeah, I'm filming shit. Yeah. Well, well, TV, when I started, it was ABC, NBC, CBS. And this new thing called CNN. You know, and then you go to Europe and it's BBC. You know, that's it. I got it on one hand. I like it because what it does, it's almost like radio. It is. It's radio. You know, if you there's many times you can stand on that stage, you know, and let that camera just wave around you a couple of times. You're getting to millions and millions of people. Right. I mean, now the problem is we got too many cameras and. Yeah. Too many avenues. So getting people to focus. But if you can get on that screen and present your personality, present, you know, your your charm, your likeability. And I tell these kids on American Idol, the most important part is there's two halves of this likeability. They come to the show to aid to hear the song that they like. But two, they want to hang out with you. Yeah. Why? Because they like you. They want to feel like they know you because they do feel they live with you every day every day. And then you do the best thing you could do possible is you don't sit up on that stage and go, thank you very much. Now, my next song is no, you break the glass and go girl in a red dress. Oh my God, look great. Yeah. I mean, you can see me now. Once you can see them and they can see you, that's an evening. That's one of the things I've learned from you. And I've seen you do it because I think it is actually who you are. As you see people. Got to see him. So you stop and you acknowledge them. Again, I go back to when we got to dinner or when we're in the world, you have a different kind of respect for the thing that I think it's a time thing. It's an experience thing. It's what you've seen probably over the decade, seeing all the experience adds up to a certain kind of gratitude that only someone who's been in your shoes could have. But I see you acknowledge people in the entire restaurant as you walk through, you see someone if they look at you and instead of look away, because you're like, I don't use you acknowledge them. Well, Nicole, Nicole and it's interesting that you do that. Yeah. Nicole, Miles and Sophie. They walk out, dad, what are you talking to? Yeah. Yeah. And I go, I'm talking to the people at the other table. They're all their anniversary dinner. And they go, just what they didn't say anything to you. I said, no, they didn't say anything to me. They waved. They looked at me. They looked at me and I look and instead of looking at them and turning my head and keep walking, instead of just waving and keeping my mouth closed, I go, Hi, how are you? Yeah. All they hear behind me is how are you? Good to see you. Hey, good to see you. Well, they go, dad, nobody's talking to you. Yeah. Well, they talk to me with their eyes. Dad's got a problem. Right. But what do you think that is? Well, you know, I was I was invisible once. OK, the worst thing in life is to. And I was that kid. I mean, once you experience it, there's a person who they they they're scared to death of you, right? And they want to say something to you. And you can see it on their face. They want to say something. And for me to ignore them would be like the worst that there's an old expression I have, you know, sometimes you meet the person you idolize the most and you sorry you met him. Yeah. You want to be that cost. I made a promise to myself, I'm never going to be that asshole. Never. You just is not going to be that, you know. And so if it takes a little time out of the my going in to acknowledge, if, for example, I may meet I may meet a dignitary. Now, what you don't realize is there's a bunch of folks between the person I'm supposed to meet. Yeah. And the car. There's rings. You follow me. Yeah. And so who are you going to meet first as security? The next people you're going to be walking the door that may be the janitor that might be the guys inside. OK, now there's a corridor of these folks. Yep. Do you walk past me and ignore them? No. It's like walking in the venue. You say hi to every person working there. That's the crew. That's the guys. That's this is the thing. And you can tell you can tell their condition in their heads. He's never going to say anything to me because they met the other folks like us. And so did they say anything to him? No. So they're expecting that from me. For me to turn around and say, how you doing, man? Good to see you. Oh. And then is how many people is I'm being attacked by four people backstage? So I turn around and say something ridiculous like you got your phone with it. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Let's take a picture. Yeah. Now that is more important than the dignitary. You follow me? Absolutely. It's something that I've I've learned. I had I wouldn't say I was confrontational, but if someone's looking at you too long and you forget that you're a rock star, you know, what the fuck are you looking at? Yeah, right. Right. Well, you have red hair. You have tattoos and you're also a singer of a band. They might look right. And that's the thing you have to learn. Exactly. No, no, they're actually just saying hi, but they're too shy to say hi. My problem was I couldn't pick a fight because I couldn't couldn't get your ass. So my problem was I lived long enough to wear and like all the bullies, all the bullies. Yeah. And I used to go, oh, my God, I got to go to this club. And I don't know. And then finally, one day I came back and kicked all the bullies ass. You know why? Yeah. And how I came with security. Yeah. Yeah, man. Yeah. Over the years. Every time I go through an airport, I go to a hotel, I go to a venue. Oh, your father-in-law was here. Yeah. He's the best. That's that's what you it starts to you clock you clock it. Yeah. It's a reputation. And it's it's also people's when they get that one story. They tell it for the rest of their life. And that applies equally the other way, too. Right. OK. Now, let me tell you, without social media. Yeah. Without anything we have of new technology. Yeah. You know what travels fast? Asshole. Yeah. That guy was a dick. OK. That guy was a freaking dick. And I promise you. You know, I always related to planting seeds. You know, when you plant fucking seeds, you get lucky, lucky flowers. Yeah. Yeah. Nothing grows. If you plan a career of fucking flowers, that's why it's coming back to haunt you. Yeah. You follow me? And so these people keep planting these seeds and I keep going, man, is only going to come back years from now as these big giant plants with your name on it. Yeah. And so, you know, just keep planting goodwill. Goodwill, did it? It takes you five seconds less to say, hey, thanks, man. Or how you doing? Yeah. That's it. But I do think that it's that it comes from. There's nothing drive. It comes from a place in you that is, again, like I said, I think there's something about from what I've witnessed over the last 20 years is there's something bigger that I say this, you earned every second of it. You wrote the songs, you did the work, but there's something bigger. It's something that I see that's like feels a bit divine. It feels like so something like that. And it comes from that same thing. I feel like that calling or whatever it is, I do feel like that the joy that you give to people. I've seen it at shows. I've seen it in a restaurant when you say hi to someone. It's part of you. It's part of the whole thing. I'll tell you, I'll tell you a little tidbit that's in the book. Yeah. It's interesting like that. And from on the book. It's a great book. You know what I'm saying? Look, I got it. By the way, as I got one over there, too. You know exactly, you know what I'm saying? Yeah. There you go. Oh, as I do. We got a big audience. Yeah. And as I go with my kids, I go, that's me. Yeah. That's me. OK. So good looking. What? Thank you very much. I came by Sunday long right there. The thing that happens a lot of times is I tell people when they get into the business, there's one thing you didn't calculate. I hope you like people. Yeah. Because if you don't like people, here's how it's going to sound. You spend the first half of your career going, look at me. Look at me. Look at me. Look at me. Look at me. And then you finally get famous. Don't look at me. Don't look at me. Don't look at me. It is funny. OK. Now, what did the universe gave you what you were asking for? Now, what is that about people you don't like? Or you want to be famous and rich without the people? It doesn't work like that. It doesn't work like that. You have to be able to engage. And I'll tell you what was in the book. I started out not as the musician. I'm sitting there with my friends and they were all deciding, well, I'm going to be a commission second or 10. I'm going to fly, you know, jets. I'm going to know I'm not flying. Yes, Vietnam wars happened. I'm not going up in no airplane by myself. That's out fighter pilot. You know, top gun. Oh, watch the movie. Top gun ain't happening. Right. The next thing medicine. Forget about it. You know, I don't like blood. This is not going to work out law. I don't want to read that much and don't want anybody else's problems. I got enough of my own, you know. So at that time, I'm figuring what is going to be that thing. And I was infatuated with the clergy. I was infatuated. Oh, that's right. I was in I'm dropping the thing here tonight. I was fascinated. I was going to be an Episcopal priest. Why? Because all of my mentors were father cautioned, Bishop Murr, father cautioned, I've been naming all the names now, father Vernon Jones. These are all my mentors, my counselors, but they were all very sophisticated and very knowledgeable. But I thought maybe I might be a minister, go to a seminary and blah, blah, blah. OK. And then I met the Commodos in my freshman year. Quite the opposite. Right. And everything was fine. Yeah. Everything was still on track until the girl on the front row said, Sing it, baby. And I went back to Father Jones and Bishop Murray and I said, I don't think I'm going to be priest material. Yeah, I'm not going to be priest material. Yeah. Because up to that point, no girl. I didn't play basketball and I'm not football. Right. You know, I'm to the girl screams. That was that I'm in the business. I don't know what this is, but this was something I'm going to do. But it's people. And from that point on, the whole thing started making sense. I like people. And when people come to me and say, oh, my God, man, you wrote this song, you told my story. And so finally I did We Are The World with Michael and Quincy and the whole thing. And I think it was Father caution came to me. And I know he wrote me a great note. He said, after listening to your song, We Are The World, your ministry is doing quite well. In other words, it's just a different form, a different form, just a different form. And so, you know, I like what people say to me, hey, man, you really helped me see this clearly. Or somebody you didn't expect. I was about to commit suicide, man, and your song came on. Was I there? No. But the song was there. And so you don't really realize how these folks interpret. I mean, I knew it was something crazy when it's the guy's funeral. He's insist you would think it's going to be Jesus's love or easy or something. My man wanted Brickhouse. Yeah, yeah. He wanted all night long. I mean, I can tell you, you know, that's the song you go. You go, dog, you know, but I would have been a mega church pastor. I could see that. I could see that. And you know what? You'd also be in jail about that third year. Just for the time. Yeah. Yeah, I saw that look on your face. Yes, he's going to jail. Brothers going to jail. Never would have seen me. Didn't know me at all. You probably would. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. In the car. In the car. You probably let me out of a few moments in my life. Yeah. No, no, no. I found that a the roughest thing you want to do is handle somebody else's money. No, yeah. That's number one. Yes. Number two, you don't want taking it in the name of anything. No way. OK. Yes. Because no matter what you do in goodwill, no good deed goes unpunished. Absolutely. No way. If something comes up, they're going to ask that one question. Where's the money? Yes. I'm not. I'm not. Money. Yeah. And you're going to jail. Yeah. So that's you did the right thing. Yeah. Sitting in this chair. We both did. And there was no bars here. No. You can go home whenever you want to. That's right. That's good. One of my favorite stories, not in that book, might be in my book one day. Good. Good. I'll take your book. Do you remember when you met my dad for the first time? Yes, I did. Thanksgiving? Yes, I did. Yes, I did. You did a black eye. OK. So Joel has been able to answer questions for me. On many occasions, and your upbringing and my upbringing, we've had moments. Yeah. And I remember going over to you and saying, hey, she's the father's a black eye. What did they do? Did they run into a door or did they fall down? And your answer was? Bar fight. I never heard that before from my parents. I just for some weird reason, it just didn't come out like. I was so OK. So it was still it was still it was still early enough in our relationship where I felt like there was likely something I could do where you would reject me. Or, you know, it was it was early enough where I questioned, you know, had I gained your respect was, you know, it's your father-in-law and it's Lionel and you're navigating this and and you're building this family and the kids are this high. And I've reconciled with my dad, which was had the whole thing, which is so beautiful, which you were a big supporter of. And over the years, we've had these moments where I gained something from you, where you actually said something to me or I watched something or I was around watching you move through the world. And you've always encouraged me to take care of my family. Yeah. But see, you have to understand something. Family is deep. Yeah. OK. And complicated. There's no surface family. You know, there's no la la la la la. No, no, no. We're going to be family. It gets deep and I don't care what kind of facade you may have put on. Yeah, it's going to get deep sooner or later. So I remember going through those situations. My dad, you know, my dad was not well. And I remember the guy said, well, if it makes you feel comfortable, you don't have to bring your dad to the dinner downstairs. What do you mean? Well, it might be embarrassing for you to have him at the dinner. Hmm. That's my dad. Right. What are you talking about? I mean, I'll cancel the dinner and just me, me and my dad having dinner downstairs. You don't have to be it. That's your dad. Yeah. OK, you understand me? Yeah. That's your mom. Yeah. What comes with your dad and your mom is their relationship, their baggage, right? And your cousins. See, people don't understand when you get married, you don't marry one person. Yeah. You married the whole family, the whole, all the soup, all the nuts and bolts and trauma. And you don't realize it until it all shows up in a room one day and you find yourself going, oh, yeah, what was my dad going to say? What's my mom? You know, you don't know. So you're on pins and needles. I saw that. And so the first thing I wanted you to do. And he loved you. He raised me on your music. So that was the other. That's the other odd thing. But I could see the total fear of my dad has a black eye. I can say he fell down the steps, you know, and you turned to me and said, our fight. OK, when you come that honest, there's a OK, but it gave me a sense of, first of all, let me just say this to you. One thing you don't have to do. You're the bravest man I ever met in my whole life. Why you married my daughter. Yeah. OK. Yes. OK. Let me tell you something. She's that that's a handful. Right. And then she's opinionated and she's my kid and one of a kind. And she's one of a kind. And so when you said, I got this, I said, man, hang on. And then you see it. But it's family. Yeah. It's family. And what I loved about you was you're a scrapper. Yeah. You OK? This is not some sit back in the corner and I'll kind of take this ride. OK, you were you had your hands full and you're trying to figure stuff out. Yes. And I listen and even with my family, my mom and dad and my upbringing, it wasn't all better roses. Right. You know, and it's I didn't have to quite present as heavy as you had to come in that door of trying to prove your but you didn't have to prove anymore. Right. OK. Well, I learned that you don't have to prove it. That's not the point. The point is you love my daughter, keep the family together. You love your kids. You're on your way. You show up. That's show. But I say this all the time. You and Brenda. Yeah. As my parents have been parents in a really nice way where now I see it. If I look back, I didn't have to prove anything. Well, it's beautiful. I'll tell you my really defining moment. I don't know we want to go this deep, but I'll go this deep. I tell you when I really fell in love with you. Tell me. OK. Go deep. I'll go all the way. All right. You call me dad. Yeah. You all right. Yeah. You said, hey, man, I my dad. Yeah. You had lost your father. Yeah, that's right. You know, and I got alteriied because I know what that represented to you. The only dad I got left. That's what I'm saying. And so, you know, from that standpoint, you know, to have somebody this close to your life, to your real life with the family, you know, it's a it's a wonderful place to be when you have that kind of faith and trust in me as the as this Lionel Richie bigger than life in your head. You know, but still I'm that kid that walks in front of the mirror every morning on to discover Lionel Richie again. Yeah. But that's funny. But, you know, it's really important when someone believes in you, trusts you to the point where, OK, am I going to make myself look stupid? Yeah, that's called family. If you start pretending around that, then what are you doing? You lying to yourself. So I just want to commend you on the fact that that was the moment I fell in love with you. Thank you. But that was that was very cool. Well, it was a big part of our relationship and reconciliation was, you know, when he came out on that trip, it was the first time he'd come out and really spent time with my family. And we had been building this relationship that we do. You were nervous. I was nervous. But as you got to see and know him a little bit, he was a great guy. He came over to me and we first of all, old school, we left you out completely. Yeah, yeah. He came over as the fan. Yeah. And not only the fan, but he knew my story better than you did. Yeah. You know, so we got to talking. And I guess at one point we just kind of ignored you. Yeah. And he was a real one. He's a real. He's a real person. And and and you could see he's been through his battles. Yeah, it's OK. But you could see he's trying to process. He's trying to get it together. And I was that one anchor in his whole life history that he could relate to the music. Yeah. Yeah. And so we had something in common to talk about. Yeah. That was a very moving moment for him and for me. And you also told me, you know, as that relationship developed, you were you were very supportive of it. It was great because I was a little conflicted at first, but you told me you only get you got one dad. And however long it takes, you know, you forgive him and accept him. He did the best he could. He did. Exactly. That's what you said. And we ended up with this incredible friendship that I really am glad I got to have because when he passed away, I was really sad. And I got to have what was the closest thing to a father-son relationship that I could imagine. And now I do think that my relationship with Sparrow and with both my kids is better for for for all of it. But but you were a big supporter in that and it was in a time when I needed it. And whether it was not only in words, but it was also just in your actions. But you also have to understand something. There's a moment that that you don't know how blessed you are. Yeah. OK. If I told you that one of the surprising moments on American Idol, say, I went out to judge singers. Yeah. I went out to judge. OK, where's the judging going to be? Let me tell you what it was. I wasn't prepared for. So tell me about your family life. Tell me about your mom and dad. Yeah. We're homeless. My dad's on drugs and my mom's on drugs. Hmm. I have four kids I'm responsible for. I wasn't ready for that. People living these real lives. I I wasn't ready for that. So now this kid's not singing for to get famous. He's singing for the house, for the family, for the kids. OK, I wasn't ready for that. But each time you hear the stories, the kids will go, yeah, my dad abandoned us when we were two. My mom left us when we were OK. Nobody does every night for me. It reminds me of how blessed we are. OK, you knew your dad. You know, your mom. We had a dad. Yeah. We had a mom. Right. OK, they didn't. Most of these kids don't. They don't have moms and dads, man. So I leave there every night thinking I got my kids. My kids, I can call them week in the hug. These kids can't do that. Yeah. And so I became on the show dad. Yeah. And that's Uncle Luke. Mm hmm. You know, and that's Uncle Kerry. You know, it becomes really a responsibility of knowing what your blessing really is. And your dad, I just I saw it from the beginning. In fact, we had more to talk about than me and you talking. Because we bonded right away from what music? And being a fan. So you were nervous about whether we were going to bomb. Yeah, yeah. We were. We left you out. Yeah. Right away because you missed 75. Yeah. You missed. You missed all that. Yeah, yeah. I was born in 79. Yeah, there you go. So you missed all what we were talking about. I missed all the things. Yeah, so it was wonderful to realize the blessing of us and what we have and how you create your family and what you have for a family and what I have for a family. We're living in a blessing. Yeah, we are. So it's not about the hit record is where are we in terms of love, respect, honor, you know, you learn that inside. That's inside family job there, man. And you did the work when that tear comes on the loss of your father. You know, it's a moment. It's a moment. It's an interesting one when you lose your dad, because the man that was in front of you, that you're standing on his shoulders. That's the anchor is now when he leaves this world. You realize now you're up. You're it. And you're the last year you're, you know, for your family. And I also think a lot becomes clear that you're when you're young, you don't have that wisdom and you take for granted a lot. And I think the gratitude or the idea of being happy with with what you have instead of just looking around at what you don't have all the time. Right. Or how you wish it was. This is the way it is. Yeah. And I think also maybe it's not supposed to be the other way. Right. Maybe this was supposed to be this way. It's supposed to be this way. Yeah, there's something. Now, this is a learning experience, my friend. And so what happens, my dad was at UCLA on his deathbed coming in and out of a coma. OK. And I am there by his side and I'm there with him and I'm talking to him when he comes in and out. And so finally, one day I said, and I'm by the way, I'm asking him questions now. I'm answering. He's I'm asking question after question and he is firing. He's giving me answer after answer, killing it. Yeah, killing the answers. And so finally I said to him, man, let me ask you a question. Were you always this smart? You said, yeah, you just started listening. Yeah. Because when you are on his every breath, you've got his undivided attention. When you're a kid walking through the house, you can hear half of it. But now that he's on his deathbed, you're listening. You're paying attention every breath you know. And he's saying everything he tried to tell you growing up. In fact, you remembered it. It's just you didn't pay attention. Yeah. And so I I I use those moments to say that it's a growing up part of life. You know, people call it a tragedy. No, no, no, no, no, you he has your undivided attention. Your mother has your undivided attention. Right now, your family has your undivided attention. You know, it's it happened to me. I had a hit record and then another hit record and another album and another album and another tour and here comes another tour. And I got to go and I got to go to the award show. I got to do this. And why don't you ask your dad's ill and he wants you to come home. Going home. Mm hmm. I'm going home. And I'm thinking he's going to be sick for a couple of months, a couple of weeks and then he'll get back. No, no, no, no, three years later was the journey. I didn't put it on another record at an album. Why? Because if you put on another record, you got to go on another tour. Yeah, you got to go. You got to follow up on the thing. I didn't want to get on that train again. Right. Why? The most important person in my life is right there. And that's the priority. And so, you know, there are moments in time when life will teach you what's important. Right. Did you and your dad, did you share your feelings a lot? Yes. Yes. But he was, he was so funny. Yeah. But I didn't understand that impression. You think so? Yeah. I grew up with a Tuskegee Airman and he's the army side of the Airman side. But anyway, what I couldn't figure out with him was every problem, every massive issue I had in my life, he started laughing. Right. Dad, did you hear what I said? The girl left me for the football player. Yeah. And he's in tears laughing. And I'm thinking, what is he says? Another day, man. He says, the idea is you're growing up. I don't talk about growing up. Tell me about the girl. No, she's not coming back home. You know, what the point is, it's a part of life. Yeah. The whole story of pain and struggle and recovery and pain and struggle and recovery, that's life. He came from, he was so poor. Right. So every time my mother would come with a tragedy, I mean, God, we're dinner. What are we going to do for dinner? We're going to have the dinner that my dad, Deborah and my sister, we loved it. When my mom said, we don't have any dinner. Dad's going to put on the pot. You know what the pot was, don't you? Everything in the refrigerator is going in the pot. That's right. Right. And he had the most exciting meal of everybody. Yeah. Because we were, and mom couldn't figure out why are you excited about your father cooking? Because he, it was never bad times. Yeah. It was always the fun part. Yeah. So I'm saying my relationship with him was real because it was, he just, as he said to me years ago, I mean, your mother's going to teach you etiquette. Yeah. And how to speak well. I'm going to teach you how to survive. Yeah. Period. Yeah. And this is how life is and how it's going to be. And you kiss ass for the privilege to kick ass. There's a period in your life where you have to kiss ass. You might not like it, but it's going to give you passage to the point where when you get to that point, you don't have to kiss ass anymore. Now you kick ass. That's wisdom. That's crazy. Got it. It's interesting because people don't want to deal with the, I always call them the bridge trolls of life. You know, anyone listening, it could be your boss or at the DMV or wherever, whatever little maze you're navigating in the day or in your life of trying to build a career or whatever. Right. You along each way are going to meet someone in some position of power that can give or take from you. Right. And you got to deal with them to get past it. A moment. Yeah. Moment. Not your, not your life. Yeah. Just the obstacle. Now you can figure it out. I can make a confrontation out of this obstacle. I can waste another hour and have arguing with the obstacle or I can just, what is the obstacle one? Obstacle needs, he's something from his ego, something from, what is it? What is it? What is it? Authority. He wants to be authority. Okay. I'm going to make you the authority. Yes, sir. No, sir. You got it, sir. Thank you, sir. Right. I'm not going to sit there and go, you don't talk to me like that. Yeah, yeah. I'm talking to me. All I want is my god dang license. I'm just going to get through this. I just got to get through you. Get through your little. Whatever they're your who is. Okay. So whatever you need, I'm going to give it to you and then it's over. Yeah. But I found out something once they realized it's not banging in the door, they go, all right, come on kid. Hey, right this way. Lion. Hey, it's okay. Yeah. Why? Cause it's my ego against your ego. You're the best. Yeah. You don't have to kick my ass in the club. I open up by saying, you're the best. Yeah. Yeah. Anyone ready for that? Yeah. Cause normally what the bar fight is is my ego is clashing with you. Yeah. So let's fight. Wasting time. I'm wasting time. Yeah. Get beat up. How did it feel the other night at the Oscars? Oh, good question. Get out of the standing ovation. Cause that's that was a moment. That was a moment. 40 years to the day. I mean, that's 40 years ago. Yeah. Uh, say you say me, uh, sitting in the audience, you know, and I, I said to Bruce and to, to Lisa, you walk up on stage, but it's not from the audience. It's from the back. And there's a standing ovation. Yeah, that was real. This is, this is the, this is the academy. Yeah. And everybody in that audience is whether they are not in their heads. They are famous. I'm not going on that stage. That is the most intimidating thing in life. Now, when I was there for the first time, 40 years ago, that's Jack Nicholson on the front. Oh yeah. Steven Spielberg, that's, you know, and you've got the pics and you've got the Portiers and you've got, you're looking at Hollywood. That's the room. Okay. So they let you in this fraternity sorority. Yeah. And to walk out on stage with some of the faces, they're so new. I would love to tell you what they did, but I don't know, but to get the old school, new school, everything is, and they stand up. It was a moment. It was a moment. I have to tell you. And, um, from my seat and just watching from the outside, felt like a moment and it felt like it was the, it was an acknowledgement. Again, like I said, a bunch of generations of people who are recognizing what you mean to not only you winning an Oscar, kicking down doors for artists, which it isn't always acknowledged what it's meant, what you've done. Yeah. The songs are great, but there's, there's something else. There's a trail that's carved out. And so that moment was nice for me to see obviously because it's family, but it's and it's you, but, uh, for anyone to see them acknowledge someone. It was a moment. I was really happy for you. You know what? I, I enjoyed the most to walk out on that stage and the whole room started smiling and then they stood up. Yeah. Okay. Smiling means they like you. Yeah. Standing up is they respect you. Absolutely. You follow me? That's what it felt. So when you get an unsolicited smile and a wave and then they stand up, it's like, huh, you know, and, and so it's really appreciated number one, but it's also a moment where you don't take it for granted. Yeah. And, uh, if I could have just, if I didn't have a time slot, how to do that? Just take it in. Take that. You know, but I mean, it's, it's really, this is the academy, man. This is this, you know, this town and this business, you know, and so when people genuinely feel bad and they demonstrate it, it's the best. After all these years, it's the best. It was quite a moment. It was a moment. I was touched by it. I was actually, I remember walking out stage and go to, uh, to Lisa, what just happened? And she said, it happened again. Yeah. You know what I'm saying? It's just, yeah. When you write a song, you're trying to get a hit record that day. Yeah. That time when you start talking about 40 years later, 50 years later, and those songs are still played, you know, it's standard play. You didn't plan for that. You know, we were just trying to get a couple of the girls in the dormitory to notice that the Commodore is living in town. Yeah, me too. You know, we all, that's how we start, you know, that's where it all goes. It's pretty simple. And then it's not, it's not a heavy equation, right? And then as it goes on, you realize not only do they scream, but then they, the money, and then you can make a living. And then, uh, and then you could be great. And then you could be great. And that's when, and by the way, you can't, you can't get a PR. There's no PR company that's going to give you, I can guarantee your greatness. No way. That comes as fine wine. It sits there and it's seasoned and whatever the case may be. And you can't call it. Everyone else decides. It's that, it's that standing ovation. It wasn't, you can't rehearse that. That was, that was a feeling that everyone agrees. They all start doing, you're realizing in a standing ovation moment where you start feeling like, I feel like I should stand, like it happens together. Right. Everyone agrees. Everyone, that's the interesting thing about it as a physical manifestation of a cultural multi-generational agreement on something. And that's what I saw. And that was, it was, it was quite a moment. When you're on stage, I'm in any part of the world. And I go out on stage and I start singing a song and right in the middle of the song, I go, excuse me, I'm the singer. They sing louder. In other words, you mean you paid a ticket to come see, hear me sing and perform. They're dancing better than I'm dancing and they're singing louder than I'm singing. The answer is, so my, you all rehearsed. You can't buy that. Yeah. These people came from all over wherever they came from to come in this building, to do the same act. Yeah. That's amazing. That's amazing. And the standing ovation or the, we finished the song and they keep applauding and they keep applauding and then they try to go to the next song and they keep applauding. Did y'all rehearse this? It's a moment when you're in the happening. And that's what that other night was last night, you know, with, with the Oscars. It was just a happening that happened. It was cool. And everybody agreed on that act, you know what I'm saying? And, and I think that's probably one of the reasons why we're kind of addicted to the strangeness of it all. Yeah. Yeah. I'm also kind of addicted to the adrenaline of fear. You know, I wonder if it's going to happen. I wonder if we got, you know, because every night when you walk on stage, you don't take for granted, it's going to be like last night. Well, it's like jumping out of an airplane every time. You said it. That's why those guys do it. That first two minutes of the show. Yeah, you're right. It's like you jump out and, and then you start to buy the first chorus. There you go. You know, that's how it feels to me. It's like, I know it's, it's definitely the airplane. And by the way, it's our pretty big wave. If you don't feel that people ask me all the time, aren't you nervous? Yeah. Before you go out on stage after all these years and I go, listen, nervous makes only tells you one thing. You're present. Yep. You're focused. If you're not nervous, you're not present. Yeah, that's right. Okay. That's got to be that look. Now, of course, four or five minutes into the show. Okay. You're in, but just for that first opening, you're not, listen, don't take it for granted. You know, you don't know what that reaction is going to be. Last night was Tulsa to nice Denver. You don't know until you get there. Yeah. And they may have a different opinion to you. Yeah. You know, one of my favorite memories is tell me my wedding night at your house. Well, that's one of my favorite memories too. They're like, you're taking. I don't know where you're going. Get out of here. No. It's done. It's done. He signed the contract. I saw, I saw this, Joe. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I was nervous. And I'm going, oh, this poor guy's nervous, but it was beautiful. Tell me. But it was, it was probably 1 30 a.m. Maybe 1 a.m. I always say it was 2 a.m. But it was probably 1 a.m. Maybe 1 30. The whole place, they're breaking down. Everyone's leaving. Yeah. There's a good drunk guy over there. Right. And you, that was you, right? Oh, no, that was the drunk guy. Oh, that wasn't me. Yeah. OK. It was you, me and Quincy. Quincy Jones. Rest in peace. Sitting there, the last three guys standing. Yeah. Watching the whole breakdown. They're cleaning up. They're starting to clean up. Yeah. And and I I'll never forget. I don't have a picture of it. I know. I have a picture here. I don't know how we managed to not take that. Because everyone had left. I was like, I'm out of here. To sit there in between you and Quincy. In this overwhelming moment of my life where I'm like, what am I doing? At this age, you're just everything's overwhelming. We already had two kids. Right. Oh, and is that true? That's true. We had two kids before we got married. You're a brave man. I'll never forget it because it was just the three of us sitting there watching the thing get broke down and almost just kind of relishing in a good night, good party. You jumped up and saying you are. Oh, yeah. Yeah. OK, that was my favorite time. Yeah. I remember I told you and you jumped up on stage with the band. Yeah. And I announced before I announced before I did it. Now you can't afford me. Yeah. So I'm doing this for free. That's right. I had to know it because as well as because that'll mess up the whole budget. Wasn't a cheap wedding either. There was not a cheap wedding. I just want to let you know. And I thank you. A lot of money. Let me tell you something. I did. I did a lot of money. The father or the bride. Yeah. Oh, my God. That was no. That was no. That was an extravagant night. No, it was. It was beautiful. And I'll never forget in my little memory book of life. There weren't a lot of words. It was just like, yeah, it was like the three of us sitting there. The last people at the party. Yeah. Just had a moment and I'll never forget it. And yeah, it defines our. Friendship and our relationship because sometimes we talk a lot. Yeah, sometimes we don't talk at all. Yeah. Sometimes we just sit and look at the leftover mess of the party. Yeah. You've been there in a lot of places in my life where we've sat back and looked at the room and sometimes the room is fucking crazy. Yeah. And sometimes it's a, you know, it's it's just two of us in the Bahamas. Yeah. You know, the last two guys up. Yeah. But that night I'll never forget it. It definitely stands out as one of those moments in my life where I was like, this is special. You were baptized properly. Yeah. Because for whatever happened, the universe gave you not only you as a godfather, us, but also my godfather came to baptize you. I'm the priest. He's the bishop. Yeah. Follow me. Yes, absolutely. So you had my godfather to sit there and give you the blessings of what you were getting yourself into. We saw a young pup. Yeah. Between us kind of looking like this going. That's a heck. You know, it'll be okay, right? Yeah. I'm a big good. Right. I'm with you guys, right? I'm with you. You got me, right? You got me. You got me. You got me. That's kind of how it feels. You know, but I know you were looking back at, I came from Maryland. Yeah. What am I doing sitting here between these two guys? Number one. And why are they sitting with me? And you were as far as I was going. You and Nicole were two kids at, you know, at the magic castle. Yeah. You know, you had no idea what the future was going to be. You've taken on this thing in Neverland. And, you know, I think Quincy kind of gave you all the wisdom because he told you one thing about Quincy, you're like for him to be a little delicate, but he was, he was on you and giving you the wisdom right after the other. Yeah. And I was taking a lot of it in too, because, you know, he wasn't there for my wedding, but the point was you got a chance to hear it from the real deal. Yeah. There's no one who has been through more stuff. He definitely said it. Thank you. So he's said it to you. Yep. And you took it all in and I must give you credit. There are a lot of people that get counseled on your responsibility and what you have to do. Joe, you did it very well. Thank you. A lot of people don't listen, but you're a great student. Try my best. Killed it. I will say this. There have been times like at Benj's wedding. Yes. Where I actually said to you, I'm going to get up and give a speech, but I'm nervous. I have no idea what I'm telling you right now. I'm going to fall down. Yeah. When you see me start to stumble, will you get up? And you said, just make sure there's a piano there. They exactly. And I said, gotcha. You're right. You're right. You got up. We actually did like a comedy routine together. So Benji Cameron Cameron. Yeah. Benji Joel. Marilyn. Oh man. From the house you showed me. Oh yeah. Right. Middle of the woods. Benji. So the comedy routine was already set up. Oh, there's too much to laugh about. My opening line was Benji. What did you say to Cameron to get Cameron? Tell, tell me. Tell me. Cause that's a love song I haven't written yet. No, that was a. From that point on, it was off to the races. Lifetime achievement. That's a lifetime achievement. That's right. You come from Maryland to get Cameron. Are you out of your mind? Right. So it was a wonderful evening. But that dog and pony show between us. We could take it on the road. We could take that one on the road. We could. It was wonderful. I think what made all of this happen was we got closer as a family. Yeah. Because if you can laugh at the good times, the bad times, there can be tragedies and get ready for it. You know, it's going to happen. But the point is if you can just take these good times and bonding times and moments of, you know, how to laugh together, how to suffer together, you know, and that down to your career, we all think we're going to be in this business and it's always going to be number one forever. Not necessarily. Yeah. And most times it's not. Yeah. But it's real. But you've got to learn how to fade well. I always tell people every day, there's a point where you're the cutest person on the screen and that's right. You're cute. Then you turn into handsome and then you turn into distinguished. And then you may you look great for your age. Yeah. Man, you know, the story. Yeah. So, you know, you've got to navigate each one of these avenues until but you gracefully graceful, gracefully enhanced or stepping to the next role. And so I look forward to watching your career, son. Just go and take care of it right there. Pop, pop. Pop, pop. I'm, thank you. I love you, man. I love you too. Thank you for watching Art is Friendly. If you liked this episode, please make sure you hit the like button. You follow the channel and please share it with your friends. We appreciate the support. That is why this show exists because you listen to it. Thank you guys. We'll see you next time.