5 Biggest Questions For Knicks Playoff Chances + Believe In Magic Hot Streak? & State Of Boston With Tatum's Return

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But anyway joining us from the media room at Little Caesar's Arena literally right now as we're doing this the first quarter of 76 years Pistons is going on and the 76ers are comfortably ahead at this point about seven points. But later on today I bet Cade Cunningham will be sitting right there where Vince Goodwill is sitting. What up though Wendy. I'm trying to be trying to understand why you pointed out the defense attorney thing to me. Do you think I'm going to need one soon. That's correct. You're from you're from Detroit. Right. You know I just figured you never know. Joining us from his home in in Sacramento and I have to say it's his home because every time we've had Anthony Slater since he's been with us for six months now it's he's been in his backyard and I missed the backyard personally but in his from his brand new home studio Anthony Slater. You're like the ninth person suddenly now that I don't have the backyard everybody wants me to get it back including somebody said you know what you could do you go take a picture of your backyard and make it the backdrop. That would be amazing. Oh my god that would be amazing. I would love that. We got to make that happen. Next time I'm on TV with you I'm going to do that just for you. Oh my god it's going to be great. Okay so I thought we'd start Vince you had a story that posted on ESPN.com today. You know we're going to spend the majority of this pod taking a look at the Eastern Conference particularly the Northeast but we got some Orlando magic stuff coming at you later which is a sentence I don't often say. But Vince you had a story today you just recently were on the West Coast with the Knicks. You're back in Detroit now but the Knicks have had a bit of a choppy trip to the West Coast. They're always going to vacate this time of year because there's various conference tournaments that move into the garden and you know for a team that's you know got a pretty good record I think the fact that there's a story about the issues facing them is appropriate because as I talked to Knicks fans, there was a bunch of Knicks fans in LA this week and I ran into a number of them when I was in LA because the Knicks played two games in LA this week. I missed you by like 24 hours Vince by the way. There's Zajda. There's annoyance about the Knicks and so you sort of tackled that and as they tried to recover here I thought we would take a look here and you know on a scale of 1 to 10 Vince where do you think the Knicks are performing at this point in the season? Right now, I think it's kind of an odd thing because when they were going out West I felt like they played reasonably well in the lost Oklahoma City and then they blew the door so after Denver Nuggets who they always seemed to have a good time with and then you have back to back bad performances against the Lakers and Clippers and then you beat the Utah Jazz but they were playing 2G Leaguers. They were playing 2G Leaguers. They just won the previous game and I'm almost disregarding that. I'm disregarding that game no matter what. I'm striving in advance I think honestly because in the 3 seed Wendy the question I have for Nick fans is do you want to be on the line to play in Detroit in the second round? Who's been your boogie man or do you want to play the Boston Celtics in the second round with Newn improved Jason Tatum? So that's the difference between the 3rd seed and the 4th seed so right now I think my concern level will be right out about maybe out of 6. Brian, just because some of their issues are coming out to bear, Jalen Brunton is the one guy that can create shots. When you ask OG Yannan Obi or Mikhail Bridges who disappeared for games at a time to do more than what they're capable of doing, you see the turnovers, you see the issues and then when you ask Carl Towns to do more then it becomes a little bit more on the clunky side and you're not sure if this is regression, like 30 year old regression or this is a guy who's not completely comfortable in the offense the way that he was comfortable in the time Thibodeau offense a year ago and you know defensively they've been better. I think it's important to point out from January 15th to now they're the best defense in the league the last three games doesn't show that but they've been good for a two month sample size it's just that nobody believes in it outside of the Nick Walls and you wonder if that's residue from time Thibodeau, if that's residue from some of the doubts that people have had coming into the season and they got about a month together. Two months is not a small sample size in the NBA. Exactly, no it's not. Did I read it right in your story over the course of the season even they have a better offense and a better defense than they ranked last year? Is that right? Yeah, yeah they're top 10 offense, the top 10 defense but nobody seems to canonize what they were under Tom Thibodeau because they were the comeback kids last year and they made this run to the Eastern Conference finals but statistically they are a better team it's just that when the numbers bear it out the eye test doesn't seem to support that or at least the eye test doesn't seem to support that against certain competition in the Eastern Conference where everybody felt like it was the Knicks for the taking now they're just one of four good teams. Their lows seem extremely low this year too. Yes. It's funny you were on the West Coast with them recently right the two LA games were kind of embarrassing. I was in Northern California with them gosh this might have been January remember Mike Brown goes back to Sacramento and they lose to the Kings then they go get blown out by the Warriors go home remember that Mavericks game that you know I think they were like 15 point favorites they were down by like 30 at some point like it felt that felt like such a low moment that I don't know you can correct me if I'm wrong maybe that Thibodeau team last year didn't have the lows of the season as much where it felt so loud I don't know. Loud. Loud is the word. Yeah. Last year you had the Cavaliers were however you know they were on pace for 65 whatever wins you had the Celtics with Tatum like look you know as the defending champs it felt at this time last season in my opinion like there was a less of a path for them to the finals than it does right now but the fact that obviously that they went and did what they did in the past probably generated the expectations but it was it was interesting for me to read in your story that they actually like ranked better offensively and defensively yet I agree that it's very angsty. It just what it feels like. Can I read you some stat events? Okay sure let's let's go to stat boy. Carl Towne since the All-Star break 12 games you know 12 games not does not make a season but you know 12 games 21 points 12 rebounds 61% shooting 48% on threes and yet after every game or most games it feels like it's a referendum on Carl Towne's that's pretty good. Andy the question is what are the expectations on Carl Towne's and it's almost like last year said an unfair bar where he was you know 25 and 12 and all NBA 13 it's almost like the season that he's having this year to some degree as a whole is the season people expected out of him last year where they thought the glare of New York City was going to get to him and he played really well and I'm with you. He looks more comfortable post-All-Star break his offensive rebounding numbers have been good he's not shooting the three at a high volume but he's shooting it well it's just when you look at him in Jalen Brunson as a quote unquote one to punch it feels like he's been underwhelming when my thing is if you do you want Carl Towne's comment during the offense in the 30 minutes of night that he plays if so be prepared for offensive files be prepared for it to look ugly be prepared for the McKell bridges and the OG and I know me to get lost within that because Carl doesn't know how he's not a post-up guy like he has a he doesn't have a very smooth offensive game it's effective but it's not the prettiest because he's just it's like he's uncoordinated he's not uncoordinated it just doesn't look like he's coordinated and that leads to the offensive files and every all the other things that come with the Carl Towne's experience but I'm with you Wendy because I know this is going to get clipped and everything else Carl Towne's has exceeded to large degree expectations post-all star break and he's trending positively people just don't see it that way because as you say he lives in a world where his salary is what it was the trade you know ushered in the reality that this team was rated when a championship his demeanor on the court his fouls I mean I should I should bring up the fouls because that's fair he's averaging let's see here how many times has he fouled out that would be my question let me see I just felt out I know I felt out yeah the night he thought of the guest of Clippers in some like the low so there's been some times this season it's like 6,022 minutes or something yes and this is a thing like there are times when he does this and you people they throw their hands up and I would just say this if you expect Carl Towne's to be a first team all NBA player who like goes in there and you know rips out rebounds like he's Rodman and shoots threes like he's Curry and you know beats his chest and runs over people he is not going to he's gonna let you down if you look for a guy who's could absolutely put up giant numbers almost every night and is going to be a second star and you know maybe he's a third team all NBA player in a good year that's who he is I mean I mean I and that's a you know that's a good player to have it's in the glare of Janice he's been an all-star six times or something like that like yeah Wendy it's all in the glare of Janice like let's be perfectly honest here right this is all both he and uh Micael Bridges where they traded five first round picks for cuz Steven they would tell you that every single time that the New York Knicks come up on first take those two players are under the harsh glare of that remember I point this out all the time Carl Anthony Towne said not get a contract extension before the start of the season cuz the Knicks know to get a guy like Janice that means big numbers have to go out and Micael Bridges got his extension you know for what 150 million dollars whatever it was but he's also the guy that you depleted your draft assets for for a player who may be your fourth best starter and maybe on some nights your fifth best starter and that's why a lot of the attention is so harsh on both of them because everybody has wonderlust of what we could have had with Janice maybe what we can have again with Janice except we don't know if we're going to have that with Janice and now we look at the Eastern Conference and what looked to be like our year looks like we are going to be lucky maybe to get to the conference finals if it all breaks right can I read you some stats sure stat boy Jaylen Brunson since the All-Star break this is all covered kind of in your story by the way just you know your story is a source material just to be clear 12 games just like cat 23 points which is good but it's down from 27 before the break 43 shooting which is average down from 47 percent before his assists are good he's averaging eight a game he's averaging six before the break it's a bit of a slump but you know this is something people are asking me about they're like how are they going to get Jaylen out of his slump so is I ask you is it a slump and is it something to worry about or is it just you know just a slight downturn I think it's regression to the mean I think we all go back to the quote from last year about hey can Jaylen Brunson at six feet one or six feet nothing be the best player on a team that wins an NBA championship and we know the two players who that applies to in the course of modern NBA history that's Isaiah Thomas and Stephen Curry you're talking about two top three point guards of all time and it's unfair to hold Jaylen Brunson to that particular standard but that's the standard that nick fans or the New York Knicks are holding themselves to if they plan on getting to June and I think defensively he's been more active and maybe it's a matter of only having so much bandwidth on both ends of the floor secondarily the Knicks offense has been better when Jaylen Brunson is not commandeering the ball dribbling it into dust the problem with that windy is who else is there to create shots who else is there to create offenses teams are starting to double him on the pick and rolls they're starting to get the ball out of his hands and asking other guys to make shots and Jaylen Brunson and Mike Brown have to find counters to that to get him the ball in space to where multiple defenders aren't there it's a work in progress but I tend to believe that Brunson being the big game player that he is that those numbers will trend upward even if I don't think he's a 30 point a night guy at his core I think he should be around 24 25 on the team like this when you got a guy like Carl Towns when you're not playing 40 minutes a night this feels like this is what the formula should be windy it's just that people expect so much and they're comparing everything to the ideal of what last season was as opposed to maybe the reality of what last season was is the the tension we're talking about the this you know the lack of belief in them you mentioned that there is maybe there's a belief inside the walls it's not there outside the walls I mean but you're around them you know clearly it's a fan base that's on edge it how does it feel internally to you when you're around them I mean do they feel like they you know they have a run ahead of them it's hard with those guys because not that they're up and down Slater but you know the the tenor of a locker room it can go from night to night depending on who's there like when I was in LA for the Laker game I see this guy walking in the locker room and shaking hands and I'm like who is this guy and I barely get a glimpse of him you know who it was Jim Dolan like imagine you know what I mean like the glare of the owner popping into the locker room teeth that owner in particular it is how rare sighting is is it to see him on the road well for one I don't travel with the team on the road so it's hard yeah but I will I will say this that's it took me to ask someone that looked like James Dolan is that Jim Dolan yeah that's Jim Dolan really for one he's shorter than I thought and that's not a shot at him I was just like if you only see a guy from the stands you have no kind of a shot no no no it but I ain't the tallest dude and he was like hunched over so I couldn't get a feel for you know what I'm saying like his height and that weight and when you're around seven footers that's true you know what I mean it's hard for that so I didn't you know I didn't mean it that way it warps your it warps your uh it warps your your sense of height when you're around all these dudes don't aggregate me I'm not taking a shot at James Dolan's height like y'all come on y'all I am saying his teeth are white they're very white you know I hope I don't get banned from the garden for saying that I don't I well first off Carl Tows this fall is fouled out seven times as sheary second league in fouls per game just fouled up on that does that sound all right uh Jackson did not provide me with that information I'm gonna get like jaren jackson's you're right jaren jackson's western conference version of that and he hasn't even played half the damn season when he's fouled out more hope you're recovering well jaren he had knee surgery recently he's a absolutely great guy absolutely wonderful wonderful wonderful guy who rebounds the hell out of the ball and sometimes makes you slap your head going why did you foul why did you foul jaren but great guy Mitchell Robinson you highlight in your story as well Mitchell Robinson is averaging this number is crazy Vince he's averaging eight offensive rebounds per 36 minutes insane that's one of the greatest offense that's moses malone level offensive rebounding most malone is one of the most unbreakable records in the in basketball I would argue maybe even pro sports is moses malone's offensive rebounding record is it a record or is it a mark because we've been talking about records and marks the past two days on on on ESPN's uh apparatuses we're treating 81 like 81's a record when 81 is just a very very high mark what you're talking about is a record more hoop collective podcast after this another morning another reminder there's a gap to be careful of but maybe it's time to bridge the one between your nine to five and your dream of living life on your own terms at HSBC we know ambition looks different to everyone whether it's retiring early or leaving more for your family we can help because when it comes to unlocking your money's potential we know wealth search HSBC wealth today HSBC UK opening up a world of opportunity HSBC UK current account holders only ESPN is now the home of mlb.tv if you have the ESPN unlimited plan you'll get a $15 discount on the 2026 seasonal mlb.tv package and if you don't no problem when you sign up for mlb.tv you'll receive a one month free trial of ESPN unlimited cancel anytime without losing your mlb.tv access get in on the action at stream.espn.com slash mlb.tv ESPN unlimited all the way to the 29.99 per month after free trial unless canceled back out to another term's apply did you see what Spoe said tonight before the game I apologize to no one for nothing I love it period you know what it reminded me of reminded me of Michael Corleone and the godfather too can have my offer now senator nothing I hate to just pile on but like you guys know how if you liked this in the pod I thought it was an awesome thing we had BAM on NBA countdown yesterday BAM was still glowing loved it I know you've been on tv talking about events but just for our listeners your position on the performance was let's get it on the record so go ahead slider go ahead yeah to me it was like a 66 point game masquerading as an 83 point game he probably should have been you know subbed out early fourth I you know I don't have this you know because of why I mean they were uh because the game was where they uh like mid mid-fourth because the game was in hand yes exactly you know not because you have to pay respects to Kobe Bryant right yeah no I mean like what if what if BAM came down on an ankle you know something like that in the fourth like I look it is what it is I'm just saying like I I thought it was an 83 part of it was a little fake but I mean if BAM out of bios were like 66 points and played three three and a half quarters it's basically what he did do and like that was incredible to me they absolutely agree the the last five minutes of the game was not a game that we are familiar with uh Vince I will say this as I said this this morning on first take before it was hijacked in all of the negative ways if you score 30 points in the first quarter I'm not passing for the next week and anybody got a problem with that you can have a problem with that right it like statistically it didn't look great it wasn't like he shot over 50 from the field he didn't shoot an enormous number from three but when you got it going early in your teammates keep feeding you and you got 40 at the half and you got 60 after three and you got 71 with like nine minutes left yeah you go for it and when the wizards because they're the Washington wizards decide to do all the crazy town things then they're exposed to respite replies in kind like it looked like at a moment before BAM got to 81 he was trying to take himself out of the game and Spoe was leaving them in so at at that point what do you do you know you play the game and you tell them to you tell them to stop you they put three guys on him and it looked like a clown car from a cartoon show where they were bumping each other's heads and they had no choice but to follow them what are you supposed to miss the free throws do I remember right the Kobe before like maybe a week or two before he had a one he had like 62 and three quarters that's right I think it was something yeah 62 yeah and so I think I better check this or maybe Jackson and check me on this I think Phil no never mind I you know I'm gonna walk that back I think Phil asked him if he wanted to go in and go for the record and he said no he said we know we don't need it like we got the game in hand and I think Brian Shaw told this story and I don't remember who read who I read who told the story so I'm not trying to hijack I just don't remember in this minute so all due respect to whoever wrote it whoever wrote the story initially from Brian Shaw Brian Shaw like second guest of decision and told Kobe like come on man you gotta try to go get 70 at the least and he's like no he goes I'll get it another I'll give it another day and like it turned out like within a couple of weeks he got the 81 I've seen various versions of this covering the Warriors I've seen Clay Thompson get into 60 and three quarters this so Clay Thompson story well I'll say the other one he scored 62 in 30 29 minutes yeah okay 60 on 11 dribbles I remember that one but also you know hold on I'm sorry to interrupt you then Steve Kerr like sort of his quote we just heard Spose quote Steve Kerr's quote was they said Dean Smith was the only guy who could hold Jordan under 30 well I'm the only guy who could hold Clay under 80 that's what he says but also Clay Thompson when he got to 14 threes in Chicago to break Steph's record the record that still stands 14 threes in a game the last like three of those threes were in a 40 point blowout in Chicago at a pretty embarrassing time for the Bulls where like Steve Kerr was like looking down at Fred Hoyberg like apologizing as the Warriors are like thirstily getting Clay Thompson like triple team threes to get to 14 to break Steph's record so it's like you know and I don't think there was much of an outcry in the aftermath of like oh can you believe they did that for Clay so there's like give and take with all can I just ask a question that I don't have the answer to I'm just gonna it's sort of rhetorical but feel free to answer it under what circumstances for Kobe and Laker fans would Kobe's record would have been okay to break Kobe's record it's not a record it's just a mark okay I'm sorry I think that back under what circumstances would it have been deemed acceptable for someone to exceed Kobe's 81 point mark it depends on you say Luca at this point right like let's say LeBron scored oh let's say LeBron scored 82 points oh Jesus like in the short of that short of the 82nd point coming like in the fourth quarter of a tied game seven how about the game winner got him to 82 you're you're trying to paint this perfect circumstance oh I'm just saying like I'm not even 100 sure that there would be universal praise for that I'm just saying that there's universal praise for nothing in modern society absolutely and especially for Kobe who the the fans of the Lakers guard Kobe's legacy like it's a family member and so what I'm saying is is that this was absolutely an imperfect event I don't think there was I don't think a perfect event is possible I don't even think if a Laker like short of the guy making the 82nd point to win a championship at the buzzer I'm not for the Lakers I'm not sure the Laker fans would have accepted the you know easily the record being exceed or the mark being exceeded you know what it is it's for them they hold on to it as if like you said they guard it like it's a family member and they feel like if it's exceeded then it will be somehow forgotten or erased like I saw Ice Cube son actor Oshay Jackson saying that the league conspired to get down past Kobe's record because they want to erase Kobe's legacy within the NBA to which I say why like but these people the Kobe stands not the general fans but the Kobe stands the unreasonable people they can't be bargained with they right that's exactly my point they have no great great job on the league they're choosing Tuesday night Wizards Heat on League Pass by the way yeah the scripted thing that was that was beautiful by the way in terms of like respect and and everything like that can I ask Vince where do you come down on Dijontae Murray crossing over Jamal shed and then barking at him and then his team the Raptors doing nothing about it where are you at on that considering that Dijontae Murray is coming off of this Achilles and and all and all that my general thing is maybe there was some trash talk between the two before them but I hear that Jamal shed is not that type of dude and secondarily what your teammates had if somebody if somebody's standing over your guy regardless of the circumstances maybe it's because I'm here in Detroit and Isaiah Stewart will do more for less you know what I mean like WWBSD what would beef stew do you don't want to know the answer to those questions like even just me if someone's standing over a friend of mine and we hooping hey dog what you're doing we this is a pickup game and I'm going to have problems with you he's in the league to defend guys like that that's why he's in the league can we talk about the pelicans quick I mean you know they're they're winning right they're winning with their veterans which I understand why they're doing it they they didn't want to pivot away from all a lot of their guys at the deadline they don't have their pick right there's not an incentive to to tank but they're also like Jeremiah fears and their queens minutes are going down and down and down and I just like they're a curious offseason team to me because if they go on this midi run right now with Dijontae Murray I think impressively coming back I mean you mentioned it right there but like he's a good off this Achilles are they just going to like stay in they're going to be a 27 win team going to the summer but be like this last month was great they're going to ride it out again I just it's very curious like well yeah so let me just let me just say like if you look at like they've they've gone on this streak where they've won seven of 12 I guess you're seven and no seven of 10 seven and 10 seven and three so if you look at the wins warriors which twice against the jazz kings wizards like you know okay so I was with the the pelicans last week in LA I talked to some of their people and basically here's the deal when Zion and Dijontae Murray got healthy there was an organizational question like what are we doing here and the mandate that came down from the top is we are trying to win they don't control their draft pick so the mandate that came down was we are trying to win and they had watched Jeremiah Fears and Dara Queen start for 40 something games and it resulted in non-winning basketball particularly on the defense event and by the way that is not meant to be a slam and a shot at those guys you are not going to win with two rook starting two rookies just about any time in NBA history okay that is not you know it is what it is and so basically they you know they're like okay you want to win right yes we want you know out front office we want to win okay well then we're taking the rookies out of the starting lineup and putting in the veterans which for a while was D'Andre Jordan he started multiple games and I you know the way it was said to me is even if you know Dara Queen sits there for the first five minutes of the first quarter and watches how D'Andre Jordan X you know I think Borego said this on the record James Borego essentially he said if Jeremiah Fears can just watch Jeremiah Fears and and Dara Queen can just watch the first five minutes of the first quarter and third quarter and watch how D'Andre Jordan is executing the game plan defensively and then D'Andre Jordan doesn't play again then it will have done his job I think that part of it's okay like the player development side I'm not going to go over the top like oh Fears only got you know 14 minutes he should have been playing in crunch on wherever my bigger question is at the deadline they could have got a haul for Trey Murphy they could have got a haul for Herb Jones maybe if they dangled Zion you know like they could have like really leaned into a rebuild they have a lot of very coveted pieces winning pieces that I think would net some really nice draft capital and they decided not to do it you know you talk to teams it's hard to tank when there's eight other tankers you know I mean well to me it less of a tank and more of like a strike while the iron is hot and while Trey Murphy's values at his highest okay fine you don't do that my question would be as I watch what's going on is are they going to have this fake run probably I would say fake run over the next month month and a half not make the plan because they're nowhere near it go into the offseason and go look hey we had our veterans together we're we're winning you know like mix and then just not trade those guys again this summer which I'm not even saying is wrong or right but it's risky just like it was risky I think not to move off Murphy like Murphy might have like what would he have got in the deadline well but no I think they were asking for more right I think what happened was the teams that might have been interested in Trey Murphy weren't willing to come off of the assets that New Orleans was actually asking for I think it was in the reverse I think I mean I heard New Orleans was basically saying no no like well let's not talk about it I also think Joe Dumar is like doesn't want to do a midseason trade I think I think the I think I think he kind of put that out there like look we're not going to do a midseason trade we're going to stay here so and look here's the thing when you got eight tankers like like Atlanta Atlanta they've been doing pretty well here they won six and I don't know if they're playing tonight maybe I'll jinx them part of what's going on is Atlanta ain't tanking in the eastern conference where all the teams below them are and they're not taking because they don't control their pick well number one they number one they set that situation up themselves with a trade that I know has been questioned many times on this podcast number one number two my bigger question again I don't even want to like relitigate the deadline my question is what I said which is the summer does this what's happening now which is them beating these you know you know flimsy teams right now is that going to make them hit fast forward in the summer and I don't know do y'all think that's a good idea because we're not talking about tanking in the summer we're talking about maybe shedding some of these pieces and reforming. You're making good points later you're making a good point okay that was just my it's reasonable point um I do want to come back to Vince's story I we were talking about Mitchell Robinson yeah um I'm sorry I I always do this Jackson knows I always take a story that was probably my follow honestly no no I liked it don't look the camera Mitchell Robinson is uh he's averaging eight eight offensive rebounds for 36 minutes it's like it's like I saw somebody tweeted it I'm sorry if I can't give you credit on my mind is going it's like more than like almost every team it's how much they average per 36 but you point out here two things because I will tell you this Joe Missoula he's pretty good coach it's a pretty good coach and the Joe Missoula decided that the most important thing in that in a series with the Knicks last year was to get Mitch Robinson off the court set a lot or maybe not the most important thing but at the high level on their game plan and so you point out two things Vince number one that in this plan to keep Mitch Robinson healthy which has worked they're not playing them that many minutes and how is that going to translate to the playoffs and the second thing is there was hack and mitch going on at a high level in last year's playoffs that was when he shot 68% from the foul line this year he's shooting 39% from the foul line so while Mitch continues to be like the premium x-factor in the eastern conference what about conditioning for the playoffs and what about that free throw situation that you bring up in this story it's the double-edged sword right because the Knicks are one of those teams that they love to offensive rebound and kick it out and spray like that's one of Mike Brown's tenets spray back outside and get open shots we know that a lot of times it's the best time to get three point shots is because the defense is in scramble mode you can't track guys and they have a strategy with that the problem is of Mitch Robinson gets an offensive rebound before he even kicks it out they're going to foul I'll tell us about the curse they're going to foul him and foul him hard because he's getting the ball out of his hands he's not trying to go up for a shot or anything like that it's they're going to have to be very judicious and how they use him in the postseason because he's so valuable and even on defense like he is such a big body he is a massive human being amongst massive human beings it's almost like for every question there's an answer and then similarly there's for every answer there's a question and that is the duality of this New York next season number one 39% is crazy uh but two like you know you can if you just pick up fouls in a playoff series in game two you get three first half fouls on Jalen Durand and you go one of six from the line like you still did a great job there right you know you got you got some of these guys that file trouble so he's a massive factor and and if they're gonna if they're going to hack a robin's in him off the floor that shows you what type of factor he is because they don't want him on the floor oh well sunday i should point out the warriors are at the garden yes are you doing this whole seven game road trips later so it is a sixth gamer i was waiting on the step update and talking to people and deciding i was going to do the whole six gamer if step is on it but step is not on it so i will be joining in boston and doing the last four okay sorry you won't see him there vince i don't know if you're going to be there i'll be there i'll be there so the step update is what and the warriors update is what they're they're playing the wolves tomorrow at home the wolves yeah get back when they just had a rough couple of days in la they've fallen below 500 yeah for the first time since like december um it's it's a little bit of a kick the can down the road it's the third straight time they've done a 10 day reevaluation which rules him out another five games this absence will now stretch to 20 games there's a massive chunk of the season he had this issue popped up remember when they were in minnesota they had the baseball series the first game got postponed it was january 24th with with the unrest in minneapolis uh he did an individual workout that day as everything in minneapolis is going on around him and during a workout his niece welled up and started hurting uh played through it a couple games but then against detroit on january 30th he leaves in the third quarter after hitting an anwan floater uh and they just decide this was like five six games before the all star break hey shut them down probably till the all star break get this runner's knee is what they're calling it right there's no structural damage they've MRI'd a few times uh but it when he works out including during all star weekend it just hasn't responded well it's swelling is dull pain it's oh it's really kind of an overuse injury um and you know they they shut it down out of the break and now again it's gonna be it's gonna reach up to 20 games and i think that if they were if jimmy butler was around and they were trying to like muscle their way into a you know a top four type seed if it was a different type situation with different realistic goals ahead of him this season i think that they'd be throttling down a bit more but next season has become the season in this final stef era uh and i don't think at all they want to jeopardize that and this is from what i gather an injury that you know they they fear if you do put him back on the court uh and he's not quite ready it could you know re-injure it re-aggravate whatever you want to say so they know they're going to be in the 910 at this point i mean i i should say this they know they're going to be in the play-in they've known they're going to be in the play-in bracket for a while if you look at what's going on in the play-in right now though the clippers are rolling yes can i just say in the last three days the clippers have moved above 500 yeah and the warriors have moved below and therefore the clippers have moved ahead i'm just going to say i don't know the health i don't know about the aspiration i wish i could say i've got strong reporting on the aspiration thing i do not you know i mean i obviously i know what's been investigated and what pablo tori has reported and others i don't know what's gonna i don't know what the resolution is going to be i just don't you know there's there's a ton of talk about there's a ton of rumors nothing that i would say i can substantiate so i just don't know there's some stuff with the clippers i just don't know i don't know whether kawaii Leonard is going to be healthy what i do know is this the clippers are now in eighth place and don't let them get to sixth with a healthy kawaii because and they're way back from sixth there's six games back from sixth i do not believe they can make that up okay yeah six is a lot right now but i will also tell you to get the third easiest schedule well it's a good point and i would like to say this more in like the warriors lens here and why i'm telling you they're trapped now in the nine ten because i think six out of the next eight clippers games are against like lottery teams whereas the next five for the warriors again all without Steph Curry are Minnesota and then they go on this road trip that you mentioned that's nix and then it's at wizards okay but then it's at boston at Detroit at Atlanta uh they're in the next week or two they're probably gonna end up being like four or five games back of the clippers so you know i i can go a little brian wind horse right now i can start you know booking play in hotels like they're gonna play the portland trail blazers the nine ten west play in week is gonna be blazers warriors in the nine ten the blazers are gonna be on the road i have no well i shouldn't say that no blazers are gonna be in the in the nine ten game i agree yeah i don't know which of those two teams is gonna be nine ten is gonna be close i don't know the suns are struggling right now although i'm sorry the suns have won three in a row but the suns um um say the back the suns could move out of the play and they're right on the wolves heels they've got a they've got a five game gap between seven and eight so the suns are like hey can we get into this top six the clippers have 17 games left and are six games out that would be a miraculous they would probably have to do something like go 15 and two right right it would have to be something but they've gone on hot streets you know before yes but traded james hard and traded of each is who watched like re i know like right now they're playing well mathrin i think they're gonna beat up i know bad teams it in the in the near future but i'll say like that was them i you know completely you know i guess pulling their ceiling out or like lowering their ceiling for the season so i don't fear them that much in a six i know how well kawai is playing right now but they was at their second and fourth best player you know basically they traded away the deadline like i don't know i don't see it in a playoff series all right well um right now also uh before i let vince go back out to the game the pistons are up by nine at the half it's half time in orlando the magic are being in the wizards um the wizards are trying to uh you know defend their honor uh as they orlando what honor i mean i will say this i don't know if you uh tsn the um the could be a canadian uh sports network sam michel um the former coach of the raptors was on the the raptors post game show the other night and he they like the dolphins like the 72 dolphins every year when the last undefeated team loses they pop champagne because sam has been long derided for not uh being more aggressive on kobe back in 2006 and sam was enjoying uh uh bams uh cracking the kobe mark but um anyway the uh the magic had a nice quality win over the calves on wednesday night and um you know at the risk of you know having jackson have to edit this out if the wizards beat them the magic are doing some things despite you know france vagner not they gave it they gave a not update update like they were like he's still progressing and he'll be we'll give you an update coming soon so it's a high ankle sprain i don't know it was something that he was it didn't it feel like he was closer and then i don't like i don't know that they said setback but it felt he's had setbacks see multiple setbacks to this injury um since the all-star break the uh orlando magic who was often pointed out have not been out of the bottom 10 in offense in 14 years 20th or lower in offense for 14 consecutive years since the all-star break they are eight and three as a team we'll see if they went tonight would go nine and three and they have the eighth best offense in that stretch and the number three defense in that stretch they've been good defensive team for a couple years now but eighth best offense and if you you know watching that game last night you know bank arrow has we keep getting these updated numbers from joel glass let me give the updated numbers coming into tonight's game joel glass magic uh since the all-star break the magic have an offensive rating of 117.8 which is tied for seventh defensive rating so 107.3 which is tied for third and uh obviously palo we've talked about palo a lot his his stats so but forget about the stats i'm going to move off the stats for a second when you watch the magic play right now and you watch them pressure the rim and you watch them go in transition and you watch des bane and i'll tell you one thing in this era of nobody hitting 65 des bane has not missed a game knock on wood for des um and he uh is coming he's starting to you know when he's not throwing the ball at people which it's not that off des but uh he is you know it it's often said to me or it has been said to me over the years that it takes longer for offense to come together than defense to come together that everybody just assumes that when you bring in a great offensive player that it just clicks but historically it takes longer offensively and i think the calves are actually having that uh growing pain a little bit right now i know their record with james harden is good but if you actually watch them their offense has not been as potent since he got there and i think that's part of a learning curve that they are dealing with the magic with bane and also with this alignment are coming into their own and you know i'm going to talk about the clippers you know watch out well the magic have moved out of the playing zone they've moved into fifth the raptors have lost six of ten the raptors really have not fared well against they can't beat the teams yeah they can't beat the teams at all there's still seven against over 500 but they've slipped all the way to seventh now and the magic are in fifth and you know bpi i don't really pay that much attention to bpi but bpi says that calves magic is going to be likely going to be a four or five uh match up so i just point out uh vince that the magic are are are are showing some teeth on offense and that's uh that's a significant development in the east look i i think it goes back to paulo ben caro and jamal mostly having i won't say war of words that's that would be a bit strong but ban caro after they lost to the trope bang caro talked about us not you know we didn't make adjustments and jamal mosey said they just played harder than us and since then it felt like a dam has broken where maybe some of that underlying tension can play itself out and people can clear the air and like you said desmond bane figuring things out in this offense where we looked at in the off season a lot of us thought where detroit is or lando would be because of this acquisition because of assumed health with bang caro and vagner being on the floor together at the same time like it's starting to come around i would say this about the heart thing so i was talking to an executive about trade that line moves teams who didn't make them and he and he said to me what trade that line moves have actually worked and i thought about it and i said rishi wallis of course 2004 the kenbe matumbo 2001 76ers they got to the finals the kenbe for theo ratliff pal gasaw which wasn't a trade deadline move i don't think but it was true it was december it was a it was an earlier season i think it was after angelo batten got hurt it was mid-season move and he was like yeah four of those instances or whatever it was maybe it was one more it's like four of those instances out of 20 x amount of years like these things don't happen that often even if it seems like all of us can play fantasy gm so the point about the harden thing was if harden falls into that category it's what you talked about wendy the expected struggle especially for a player who has as much control the offense as harden does you know not that he commandeers anything but he is the system this is not exactly comparable because of the dynamics of that trade but look at the kevin dirant trade a couple years ago i mean they took their whole team and turned it sideways but that dirant trade to phoenix like you know that didn't work out you know short term or long term but you know that's that's i mean you know dirants never said i am the system but you could say about dirant he's the system wendy can i detour you one more time before this podcast i don't allow that no we focus on the pod no it's um i watched that magic calves game last night the one rematch in magic nice win bayne looked great but i see keon ellis hitting like three threes and like late in the fourth quarter looked great right what he played 30 minutes yeah he's played 30 minutes a couple times in a row yeah i mean you're obviously locked in on the calves a lot you know on the blow by blow how good has he been he's been exactly what the calves thought they were getting from a defense you know he's a defensive playmaker you know he gets his hand on a ton of balls he creates steals he creates fast break opportunities you know defensive playmakers are kind of hard to find it's kind of i'm asking because like he was a very extremely available at the deadline for anybody in the league and you know the kings just never got their you know asking price of a first round pick they obviously ended up pivoting and basically using him to dump the denish ruder contract and he's always been like coaches have never trusted him the way that front officers and scouts love him and that the local fans and sacramental loved him but you know it's obviously not a great look for the kings to basically get off him and and he's like a you know closer at times for for an eastern conference team and i just i don't know i've just watched it last night was one of the well i will say this he's been i think he's been and this could be i'm pretty sure bobby marx briefed me on this because but i think he's trade elge i mean extension eligible he's yes february 9th he was extension eligible as part of the reason the kings had to trade him even though right and the calves haven't signed him yet so i mean what is what that tells you is you know that he thinks he's playing himself into a bigger deal and maybe that's why he didn't have quite the uh you know i guess market that the kings were hoping he would at the deadline but like this guy was really available to a lot of teams and you mentioned it defensive playmaker deflection king steals all that and i just you know he might end up being a really real factor in the play house and i think it could look bad on the league in the general that nobody went at grabbed him and then also like the kings but that's that's a deeper story about the kings just losing him for nothing basically all right well thank you very much uh vince you got to go uh get to get to work by the way jackson went and found it for me that brian schawe story was an interview with melissa roland who i believe was with fox at the time but she is now um california post so more journalism jobs positive yes all right thanks guys we will be talking to you guys uh soon and have a great weekend more hoop collective podcast after this okay always special when we have alex spyro one of the nation's leading trial attorneys he's coming from an undisclosed location with an undisclosed client list just for fun just google him just google him alex i'm just gonna tell you this there's a guy who i know in the nba who how should i put it you know who he is he's a security consultant okay he's a fixer and he once described his job to me as brian they call me in when it's fourth and twenty well they call alex in when fourth and twenty didn't work so i'll just i'll just leave it at that uh as represented a number of nba players but most important alex in the the way that you want to be introduced and the way that you want you identify yourself is a die hard celthic not a celthic fan you're a celthic and not only that like i i know you know what's going on with the team but anyway welcome to our humble podcast yet again good to see you guys i tune in every time so it's good to see you you know face to face yes okay now we are doing this before they the uh celtics play the thunder tonight jason tatum is sitting out tonight the reason we're having this now is because you are a no-nonsense man you are leaving no-nonsense business you have insight and insight information i want to know what you think about the way tatum looks and what you think about where the celtics are now that we've seen tatum play for a few games i'd like him to play tonight so i could see them be the top team you know we lost to the spurs there was a questionable backseat driving technical value you might have seen lost to the wolves can i just say real quick because i'm famous for ripping the you are correct the referee who called the first technical did not call the second technical the referee that called the first technical tyler ford who has been in our podcast we are tyler ford defenders here having said that i have not talked to tyler but i will just say i don't think tyler would have thrown jaylen out it was a younger junior referee who came in to quote-unquote have tyler's back that threw jaylen brown out of the game i do not think it was the way it should have gone down joe mazula after the game compared it's like the principal not letting the assistant principal do his dirty work i actually think joe was right and i think what you just said was right having said that counselor jaylen's got to control himself more in that situation sure i think we could have won that game so we lose to the spurs we lost to the wolves we lost to the nuggets i would have liked to have seen tatum and the full roster play tonight because i think we need a win like that we're losing record to the nicks losing record to the pistons but that being said i'm i'm bullish i think we're going to the finals i've got the hotel room booked you know so i'm ready i'm ready to go you've got the writs booked i've got the courtyard booked buddy the the hotel room booked where oh in boston oh yeah oh yeah i mean you're not predicting who they're going to play you know i will pick a western conference team like i mean let me know when you book hotel rooms in the west and then we'll talk from playing the field still but yeah i like the Celtics tatum look great and for a few games back he looks great the team looks great they're focused and i think he fits in perfectly and they designed it as such and when you talk to the team you know the culture and just the fight that they have it just rings out from all the way through from ownership all the way down and so i think they've built something special here and i think they're going to go to the fun well it's a new ownership situation now so new you know have you had detected any difference in the way the Celtics are operating i know wick reissbach is still around but it's new ownership now yeah bill's great wick has remained in his spot and everybody is just says the world of wick brad is rock mike xaren's great i mean you see the culture it reminds you a little bit of the patriots dynasty the culture there and you see it at this with the stars i mean tatum the amount of goodwill and respect that tatum has around the league for the way he came back the mom of the mentality the way people are talking about him you can see how well respected he is both inside the team and out and then even little things like when cornet comes back and everyone's cheering for him you can just see that this is a special organization and i think they're i think they're prime for another several finals runs i would agree with that now let me just tell you that i'm going to tell you what the scouts are now saying to me because they've now watched tatum for a little bit and nothing that i'm about to say is surprising okay it's not a criticism also you know i think tatum's return has gone as well as they possibly could have imagined it and drawn it up i think he looks great and i'm also on the record many times and i will just do it again here saying that jason doesn't have to be ready to go in the highest level today he needs to be ready to go in the highest level six weeks from now when the second round begins which is where i think they're going to need him the most but the scouts will tell you the scouts who've watched him will tell you that absolutely you can tell how he protects the the right leg and that um well i mean i i pointed out that his first shot against the mavericks uh week ago um he sort of did uh i i called it a step back but i was corrected by an expert um the guy named robert oliver who emailed me who is a phd researcher in biomechanics and he said that it is not it was not a um step back it was uh uh what's called a false step and um i'll maybe learn more about that nonetheless i felt it was a little bit symbolic that he showed that he would push off the right leg that's what i having said that the scouts say look the right leg is weaker and he sometimes is protecting it and you know some teams they i talked to a scout who said they thought some teams were being a little charitable the first couple of games and not attacking him and that they will attack him more on that side so what i'm saying is is that i expect us to continue to learn and watch about how jason is and this very much to be a process yeah i think that's right by the same token he doesn't have to be you know tatum of last year that jaylon has ascended to being a first team all nba type score or just straight up first nba first team all nba and jaylon is surveying the court some of that's the injury some of its psychology some of it's that he's been able to watch the team for so long and if he ends up in more of a triple double role and less of a i'm going to attack every play role i think that that may be a blessing in disguise it may let lead to less your turn my turn kind of stuff that he and jaylon can do so there's some benefit to that and then listen look at the top scores in the league people like jaylon uh luca you don't have to necessarily have explosiveness to find the angles jason has incredible footwork he's also a big 6 10 he shoots high release point he's going to be able to score and see the court you can see him snatch in those rebounds and just think about his who he is replacing i mean he's a he's a huge upgrade who did better at the at the turn of the trade deadline than getting jason tatum back even 85 percent so absolutely you know i think they look great the team chemistry the culture and i don't see why they can't come out of the east and i think they will come out of the east all right let me ask you as an officer of the court let me ask you this if you were turning if you had a vote for mvp what would your mvp ballot look like i want to see you how impartial you can be here let's see yeah what's poly market saying these days i mean i think you've got a factor in the market should follow the bond temps poll because bond temps is you know research has routinely proven to be predictive we should do the bond temps poly market poll we should sort of merge the two but i don't know where they are in games play i mean is she and interesting you say that uh tonight victor was ruled out of the game with an ankle soreness and he only he has i think he can miss four games so i don't know how significant that is but yes of course you you can you can include that in your answer like but as of today you know she and victor have not missed games to the level where they would be ruled out but victor and she are both sort of somewhat close yeah i think it's got to be she victor and then kate and jayloth excellent ballot i respect i respect that ballot let me ask this as long as i'm asking you to root to give me a ruling give me a ruling on bad matter bios 83 points oh it was great it was great it i'm on the same culture after seltax culture the heat would be right up there and he's just an awesome player and i love watching him play and you know let him go once he's got 70 late in the game let him go let him try um and it was a without hitting many threes was a hell of a game so the seltax their their team is very very different from the last two last you know if you go back and look really since 20 to 20 sort of the 22 to 25 era where they made two finals and then last year i thought they were going to the finals i had my hotel uh my hotel's booked in boston for months and months probably longer than i had in booked in oklahoma city um but they're a very very different team now they're they're you know their culture is is the same they're you know their style of play is the same they still want to shoot a ton of threes they still focus on low turnovers but this is a very different team and you're going to be relying now look the basis of the seltax is they have three two-way awesome two-way guys you know the jays and derrick white play both ends of the court perimeter players ball handlers can defend great can all three of them can hit a clutch shot and then obviously patin pritchard is he has his role but you are going to be relying in the playoffs on role players who have not done it before largely i don't consider patin pritchard i mean he is a role player but i'll put him in almost in a starter quality um do you believe that these guys who haven't done this before will be able to deliver like those role players for the last few years who proved themselves al horford porzingas when he was healthy um you know guys like that do you do you believe that this team has that that build out of the roster that you need to win three playoff series yeah and i think we're skipping over kato i think we're skipping over the fact that because of porzingas's health and al you know not being as young as he once was that you've got an upgraded center you've got this inspiration of tatum coming back this way and a culture that cultivates confidence and excitement amongst the role players and they got a lot of role players they're deeper than they have been in a decade so that that counts for something and i think the team will pull the right strings and keep the right guys in at different times um and they play this spread duke college like basketball and they've got enough two-way players that that i just think the other teams in the east have weaknesses that they did not solve at the break um they did not solve at the trade deadline and that the Celtics should should win you saw a jim dole and they should win they should win okay uh clear you know tatum is coming back and i don't think it's a runaway i mean pit the pistons are tough the nicks have what they need the calves are very good i think the Celtics match up well with the calves yes you know that seems to be the strength of the Celtics show really shows up with the calves yeah i think the pistons are missing the score don't you know need one more score and so then you're left with you know are we talking about a a nicks Celtics eastern conference finals and boy will that be a hell of a run back has been said for well over a year the nicks have invested enormous amounts of assets and money in building their team to beat boston they they built their team with strong wings to do it and it was and i mean i think they beat this i was somebody who very strongly believed that the Celtics would win that series last year i even believe the Celtics would win it when they were down two oh um but also very much believed that the nicks flat out took it and that it was going to be three one uh and that they were going to win even if tatum hadn't gotten hurt because i think the nicks proved um the the way they played could could work against boston um that still exists you know they are still even with the different coach they still have those weapons i still mystified the way games one and two went but the fact the game that they won both of them sort of you know and the way that in the way that they you know one game four and then we're so powerful in game six like it validated that stretch like that still is there that you know the the nicks have that we were unexplainably lax at the beginning and the game tatum got hurt i mean you don't you can't tell me a better game played by a player in recent years or a harder game played he was unstoppable and so broken but they were going to lose that game right i mean i know we were it was down to the wire but his his um his performance was something else and anything i don't think given what's happened in the last 10 months with his comeback they will be lax going into this but but again tatums tatums health is key and og has been playing great i mean he's really their wing that can guard i think their other players are a bit small for jail and and and tatum and so it's really og verse a little bit that's true um that's why they got him that's why they that's why they paid on the max not just what they traded for him that's why they paid on the max um all right alex well am i going to have you back on i'm going to have you back on after the conference finals and we're going to see whether your confidence was accurate i do think boston probably if i had to rank the percentages i think i would put i think you know i would put boston as the highest percentage but it would be something like in the high 20 maybe 30 percent like there's a lot of things that could still go on there listen even saying that with tatum just coming back just tells you all you need to know about you know the heart of the seltics you know what i'm saying absolutely all right well you're on the record i'll see you i will see you um after the eastern conference finals if not sooner and certainly i'll let you know where i'm staying in boston all right sounds good thank you very much alex spyro i guess uh we'll see you soon all right everybody thank you so much thank you to all of our producers uh mark jackson and tucker and divan as always thank you to vince goodwill and anthony slater joined us earlier thank you for listening and watching the hoop collective we'll talk to you next week