This is an I Heart Podcast. Guaranteed Human. Music saved me. When we sit down when people in this office, I'm constantly like, yeah, but what do you want people to feel when they see this? Like that's, you know, what do you want them to do with this information? You want them to take action, do you want them to absorb? Do you want them to cry? You want them to laugh? Like, what does that look like? And I think that when you can approach it like that, it does provide a little bit more of a human component to something that is very non-human, which is digital media. I'm Lynn Hoffman and welcome to the Music Saved Me Podcast, the podcast where we discuss the healing power of music and bring you the inside stories from musicians to insiders, inventors and even authors. And I think our guest today can certainly speak from pretty much every aspect of all the topics and so much more that I just listed. She is an inspiring figure in the world of music, entertainment and leadership. Jenny Smite is a renowned entrepreneur and the founder and CEO of Gorilla Marketing in Nashville spelled G-I-R Gorilla. Her career spans over two decades, starting in the music industry at companies like Electra, Disney's Hollywood Records, Yahoo Music, Clear Channel. There's so many more. The whole time would be over listing all your incredible accomplishments. And Jenny is also the author of a new book. It's a beautiful and inspiring memoir called Becoming Gorilla and I'm thrilled to welcome her to Music Saved Me. Jenny Smite, welcome to the show. It's so great to have you here in person. Thank you so much for having me. All right. Start off with your personal connection to music since it sort of was sort of in the beginning and the foundation of your world. Can you share a moment when music profoundly impacted your life or maybe helped you through a challenging time? I 100%. Like MTV was a game changer for me. I was a typical Gen X Latchkey kid. I had two working parents, two divorced parents. So I, for many hours, after school, I would go home and be by myself. And I had an older sister, but she's six years older than me. And so she and I often joke that my parents had two only children. And we really didn't intersect until we were like 30 years old. You know, I mean, she was an awesome big sister, but she was like too cool to hang out with me, you know. But MTV was the staple. And I don't, a lot of people tell their stories about MTV about when it came on air. I don't actually remember when it came on air. I just remember that after school, that is what went on my TV downstairs. And then, you know, I would bring my homework down there. I would bring my snacks down there. We had a TV that you had to, you know, change the dial. And then eventually VH1 came and so did BET. And so that became the way that I consumed music. And not only consumed it from, you know, listening to the radio, but like watching music videos and then seeing those kairons on the TV of like what label it was, what the video director was, all of that. I was like, hey, like what is this? You know, what's a record label? What's a, you know, what's a video director? Like what is all of this mean? And I think generationally we were all sort of blown away by seeing our music. Absolutely. I did the same thing. I mean, we couldn't get home fast enough when there was a new, you know, Michael Jackson music video or, you know, whatever it was that they were playing on there. It was a very formative. Although I find it interesting that you were looking at the labels and that information where I was like, I want to be the host of the shot, you know, well, I mean, we ended up where we were supposed to be, you know, like I know, right? I and we didn't have the internet, right? So I have no, I have no idea like why that was so interesting to me. But it was. And then I kept seeing repetitive names, you know, like what's Sony music, what's Warner music? I mean, I think like I remember seeing Madonna video and figuring out the entire record. I mean, I think I was like, I'm not sure if I was going to be the host of the recording and I was like, I'm not sure if I was going to be the host of the recording. I was like, I'm not sure if I was going to be the host of the recording and I was like, I'm not sure if I was going to be the host of the recording and I was like, I'm not sure if I was going to be the host of the recording and I was like, I'm not sure if I was going to be the host of the recording and I was like, I'm not sure if I was going to be the host of the recording. I mean, you asked if you were the host of the recording. I mean, you asked if you were the host of the recording. I mean, you asked if you were the host of the recording. I mean, you asked if you were the host of the recording. I mean, you asked if you were the host of the recording. I mean, you asked if you were the host of the recording. I mean, you asked if you were the host of the recording. I mean, you asked if you were the host of the recording. I mean, you asked if you were the host of the recording. I mean, you asked if you were the host of the recording. life. Oh my gosh, just entire movements of music, right? Like it was kind of, we were in that age where people started to siphon themselves off into groups based on the kind of music they listened to. So you were like a rocker, like you are a stoner, you were an all-kid, you know, you, and I actually liked everything. And so, yeah, and so like I didn't I didn't try to own that. I didn't try to, you know, I mean, I certainly leaned more rock than anything else. But man, I loved, I mean, the pop that was coming out, you know, the Madonna's, the Cindy Loppers, the, you know, some of the blondie videos, the, you know, I mean, just they were, they were rock too. They just were massive global pop image icons, you know? Yes. I mean, you just couldn't get it. You couldn't get off the channel without seeing a strong individual woman. How would you say your relationship with music has evolved over the years? I still get really excited. Like, I mean, it's the best part of my job, you know, like, I'll always, it doesn't matter the types of clients I have, like when I hear a good song, it, it, it, it takes me right back to that place in my heart where I get thrilled to be excited to be part of a team that can launch something like that. Interesting that you say being a part of a team. I feel like that's my whole journey in life was to just work with a really great team. But you don't always get that right out of the gate, do you? Oh, you don't. Sometimes you have to build it. But when can you build the team if you're still just starting out, you know, trying to make your way? Like, I mean, that's the thing, right? Is like, you have to recognize what you, what collaboration you need to be successful? And you're right. Like, when you start thinking about it in a linear fashion, like, if it's a money hurdle or it's a time hurdle or, you know, all of the things that we deal with of being entrepreneurs. But at the heart of it, my job is so uniquely collaborative that I just, I have to find ways to work with people and get it done. So even if it's a trade, you know, like, and sometimes that just comes in advice, like, if I have competitors that I speak to on the regular, you know, about what we're doing and our area of the business and over the years, that served me really well. But to be just for the, for those listening, you are very integral in terms of digital marketing or musical artists. Is that correct? Would that be? I mean, I don't know if I would say that about myself, but I was at the, I personally was part of the generation that came online. And professionally, I feel like I have been a good usher, a good bridge between what has happened generationally. Yes. It's big. I mean, especially the last 20 years. Oh, yeah. When I moved to New York and got my first job in television, it was VH one classic, which was a part of the very beginning of the launch of digital television, which I had no, I had no idea what it was. I was just thrilled to be there. It doesn't matter. Still was like one of the best things I've ever seen on television, which classic, the pop-up videos that VH one did. Oh, yes. Yes. That's programming ever. Yeah. And they should, they should still have that on the air today. Sure. Because there's still so much being done about it. But yeah, that, that really is, it's an exciting time. And interesting that it's taken so long, it seems like it was yesterday. But now it's really the thing that's driving everything. Yeah. So adapting to that must have been interesting, an interesting time for you. It was fun, right? Because we're in and we're not in a dissimilar time right now. No. Because at the time, we still had TV, we had radio, we had touring, you know, we had magazines, we had newspapers, we had critics, we had all of that. But we didn't really have a way to talk directly to our fans. So we were speaking through third parties, which is, can be a benefit. You know, it can be. You're right. We don't want to discount them. They're very important. Right. And there's very important. And it's, we didn't have to do nearly as much damage control, you know, as, as we, we often find ourselves in positions of having to administer. But conversely, as we grew and, you know, digital and the fan became the, the gatekeeper instead of a lot of other sources, it, the volume of releases became a lot in some of these other mediums. Unfortunately, have either dissipated or decreased. So it's not, it is a new opportunity, but every sort of evolution comes, you know, there's, there's, there's death challenge. Yeah. Yeah. Yep. So absolutely. It's not, it's not always like just growth. Like sometimes it's a little bit of, it's a flat line. It's just a stagnating. Just, yeah, it's weird, because you would have thought we would have jumped to where we are now a long time ago. But it's like you said, it's taken almost two decades to get to the point. And, I mean, from your perspective, being in TV, I mean, we, they're going, they're, they're, they're behind us, you know, the music business has always kind of been the stepchild to the movies and the, and the TV business. But we went through this evolution, you know, painfully and publicly, you know, with Napster and, and, and all of that. Yes. And so I think everybody in the, in the entertainment space had the benefit of seeing some of our, our profound mistakes in that. So, but it's, that's for sure. But there's still a lot. I mean, how many times do you talk to people a week where they're like, have you seen this show? And you're like, what, where I don't need, what network is that? And people are like, I don't, you know, it's something, something plus whatever. And you're just like, I don't know, you know, like I'm old now. I have like the networks that I like to watch and we move on, you know? No, you're, but, but you're right. And what you just said though about radio is the same thing. And radio was really the place where you'd go to hear that new song that everyone was listening to. And now they are starting to, you know, play it, you know? Yes. Yeah. And, and heavy rotation, hopefully. Right. Now, regarding creativity, creativity and inspiration, you were talking, you work a lot with, with musicians and bands and, and groups that we had mentioned earlier, creative groups. That's not always easy in the music world to work as a team, because there's so many elements in the, from the people who wrote the music to, you know, touring and decision making and things like that. Have you ever had to sort of deal in that world where you're helping the bands to get along in their own groups? Yeah. I mean, everybody has a different perception of what success might look like to them. Right. And also, I mean, being in a collaborative environment is, I, I have said this analogy a thousand times, but I'm like, when you grow up with divorced parents, you learn very quickly, which parent to go to to get the answer that you want. You know, like, yes. Or you learn that there are certain things that you might run by somebody versus somebody else just based on how you think the, the, the news might fall on their, on their heart, you know. But for the most part, the way that we have chosen to operate, even though it might be more painful, is to just be fully transparent on, you know, our job isn't to tell somebody what to do really. Most artists that we work with come to the table with a strong vision of how they want the world to perceive their music. And every artist knows that once it's out, you can't actually control that at all. All right. People hold on to things that you weren't even thinking that they would think would be a big deal. You know, favorite songs or singles, as it were, is still a very opinion-based gut instinct business. And even though digital marketing has slapped some analytics on it that make it a little less risky to, you know, potentially choose one song over another. The really, the heart of it is that some person, a human being on a team, whether it's the artist or a trusted confidant within the circle, somebody has made the decision. And at some point, we all just have to get behind that decision and do the best we can. But yes, by making one person happy ultimately when you're dealing with teams, you're making another person potentially unhappy, you know, so it's a balance. And then four. You know, there's a starter, there's a sub. I mean, it's just, it's the reality. We'll be right back with more of the Music Saved Me podcast. And by the way, if you like this podcast, you're going to love our companion podcast called Take in a Walk. It's hosted by my dear friend Buzz Knight and you can find it wherever you get your podcasts. Welcome back to the Music Saved Me podcast, the podcast where we discuss the healing powers of music with some of the biggest names in music, as well as up and comers. Many artists talk about music coming to them in moments of inspiration, as I'm sure you've discussed many times. Have you personally experienced this in your creative work? Have you ever been inspired by music or songs? And I'm inspired by everybody. I mean, I, I see the world in words. And when people are speaking to me, I will glob on to one saying or something. A lot of times, it's something in passing. So I am the annoying person who could be at a dinner. And my friend could be just saying something in passing about whatever her day is and she'll say something. And I'm like, oh, I got to write that down. You know, like I'll text myself so I don't forget it. Or when I'm listening to something and I try to really listen, like I try to get the music. And before I make any offers of ideas or, you know, any suggestions on what I would do in terms of strategy, I try to listen. And I think that's pretty rare these days. You know, I think, I think a lot of people will look at the numbers associated with a particular person or a particular piece of media and then talk about how they were going to, you know, deploy it as opposed to what we are deploying. And the bigger point is like when we sit down with people in this office, I'm constantly like, yeah, but what do you want people to feel when they see this? Yeah. Like that's, you know, what do you want them to do with this information? Do you want them to take action? Do you want them to absorb? Do you want them to fry? Do you want them to laugh? Like, like, what does that look like? And I think that when you can approach it like that, it does provide a little bit more of a human component to something that is very non-human, which is digital media, you know, but I mean, that's just, it's harder. It is. Gone are the old fashion rating systems too. So you really are in the dark in terms of, that's right. Although the algorithms are a little scary these days, because they can really, you know, you can advertise one to one now, which is amazing, especially when you're putting out good stuff like music that helps to deal with the massive, I think, mental health crisis that we have going on in the world today and music. I'm pretty certain that it's been scientifically proven now, especially through some great interviews that I've had with some scientists, that it does heal, which explains a lot about the business as a whole and why it's still here today stronger than ever before. And even more of it, more kinds. Do you think music has the power to heal and transform yourself? And, and if so, have you seen this in your own life? Oh, not even aside from the very obvious mental health, everything that you just referenced, the idea we've in my family, my, we have, my mom is suffering from dementia, from Alzheimer's. So we've seen the benefit on that. There's things that she remembers, deep in, deep in her, and, certainly people that's well documented in sources that have actual scientific reference, not me. The idea that you can place somebody a song from a really prolific time in their life, and they can reconnect to those feelings that they know where they were when they first heard that song, or they think about the car that they used to drive. And what did that car smell like? Like, you know, like, was it raining? Who was in the car? Yeah. You know, like, you remember all of these things. And, and now I'm like, oh, I know you can't remember what I did on Tuesday, but like, I will listen to a song that I loved in high school. And I could tell you everything that was happening at that time. So to, even, even if there was no scientific reference to the benefit of music, I know in my heart that, and every person that I talk to that also loves music, which is really hard to find a person on the planet who doesn't like music. But the idea that you can connect emotionally, your memory, your smell, your sight, like, all of those things just by listening to a song. It's incredible. We are incredible. You're right. You're absolutely right. I think that we don't give ourselves as humans enough credit for how powerful we are and the things that we're able to do without plugging into a wall. That's right. I, for a lack of a better way to explain it, I've always wondered that, you know, if there's electricity in us, how come we don't have to charge? Yeah. I mean, even when you see like, you know, my kids grow up with the apps, you know, like, call for a bite or, you know, whatever. And they use those to go to sleep and they use sometimes they use the noise frequencies. And just the idea that that is so calming to our nervous system, that we can bring ourselves down to a place where we can have a restful sleep no matter what is going on in our lives. Minus men are paused, by the way. Oh, nice to meet you. I just broke out into a sweat when you said that. Sorry guys, if you're listening. I know guys hate that. I think that, you know, my eight-year-old knows the piece if he wants to listen to a meditation at night. That's incredible. That's great. That really is, you know, it's funny when we were kids. We didn't have that stuff, obviously. We were kids. Now all of a sudden, I sound like, we had to open the window and listen to kids. We ate rocks and we liked it. No, I used to listen to talk radio. I didn't listen to talk radio. I would just put on talk radio and I could fall asleep to the tone of the voice just lowing me asleep. My dad used to joke that if we ever, he ever wanted me to go to sleep, that he would just put golf on. Yes. Done. Yeah, just out, out, out on the couch. That quiet clap. Well, before I let you go, you are an incredible person. You've gone through so much in your short career and you've, experienced things in life that most of us do, you know, love and loss and growth and but to levels that most people don't really get to go to, you know, like president of country music association or, you know, things like that. So with that said, and also you sit on the board of a special organization called Music Health Alliance, what would you give for, I guess, just something for inspiring words to a young person today who's starting out into a completely different world than we came through in terms of adapting and adopting and and persevering. I think the biggest piece of advice that I have for somebody is when you feel yourself saying, but I don't know what's going to happen in the in the future and you have a negative spin on that. I want to remind people that when I was in college, this didn't exist. So I look at it like, yeah, but we don't know what's going to happen. As not a, yeah, we don't know what's going to happen. That's so scary. What are you going to do? You got to have a plan. I'm like, hey, yeah, you're right. I don't know what's going to happen. Amazing opportunities may come your way with just a little patience and hard work. And so you can't even imagine what the world is going to look like in the opportunities that are going to come your way. So you've got to change your mindset on that. I at this age with this experience still have no idea. Some days when I walk into the office, what I'm going to have to deal with. And that is not what stresses me out. What stresses me out is actually thinking about living the kind of life that I do something the same way every single day until it's time to clock out. That is not interesting to me. So when especially when kids are in college and they're asked that awful question, what do you want to be when you grow up? You know, like your job in your 20s and even even past that is to try a bunch of things and figure out what doesn't work for you. You know, um, and I think that pressure that we put on ourselves to have all the answers and to have the plan is just a gigantic disservice because sometimes you just got to get in there and figure it out. And for me, historically speaking, when there's confusion and there's chaos, that's been when I've been the most successful. So it's, you got to look for opportunities. Great advice. Oh, and one more thing I lied about the last question. Becoming Gorilla, which is your new memoir out. Can you explain why you named it Gorilla G-I-R-L-I-L-L-A? So Gorilla Marketing is the name of my company. And it was originally a play off of Gorilla Warfare, you know, meeting like underground sort of, you know, on down and dirty. That's right. And why I named the book The Coming Gorilla is because for 15 years, I've been hearing, you know, you can't, you can't, you got to have life work balance. You got to, you know, you got to keep your work life separate from your home life separate from your whatever's. And about five years ago, I just came to the realization that I am my job in a way. I am, I am what I do. And that's good because I'm super passionate about it. And I don't put a face on or a uniform on for eight hours to do this and then go be somebody else the rest of the day. So for me, it was more of a reunion of just saying like, it's, this is who I am. And it happens to coincide with what I do. But and I really wanted people to see themselves in my story. And my hope was that when they were reading it, that they would have moments where they would laugh or laugh at me, you know, just, just identifying with the story themselves. Well, it's a beautiful book. And I think everyone should go out and grab a copy of it right now. And I want to thank you so much for being on Music Save Me because I know you don't have a lot of time. But I know you're a good plate juggler after everything I've read. So Jenny, my thank you so much for being on Music Save Me and good luck with everything. Thank you so much. This is an I Heart Podcast. Guaranteed Human.
