He's got himself in somewhat of a serious pickle here. If he doesn't go at this point, I mean, he kind of really looks weak. It's very complicated. I mean, Iran is a big country, is a formidable military power. People in the White House always talk about his reluctance to go to war. He's not going to go to war because it's too complicated for him. You know, he doesn't like to listen to generals. He doesn't like to be confronted with information. War is an information heavy activity, to say the very least. Michael! Joanne. There is a sense of there's too much going on. I can't keep on top of it. I wake to a I have a very bad night because I'm still sleeping off this this surgery. And it means you can only sleep on your back. I'm a side sleeper. This is too much information. But I had a very spotty night and I wake up medicated still on the I'm I'm weaning myself off. I'm weaning myself off. But I don't think you can tell the difference, can you? Well, you could go down a path in which there's no return. We're not going to do that. But I've been weaning myself off. But my point is a terrible night's sleep. And I wake up to what feels like a hallucination, which is a text chain full of, oh, my God, oh, my God, oh, my God. Andrew, the first member of the British royal family, to be arrested for 400 years, unless you count Princess Anne, who got briefly arrested when her dog, Dottie, bit two children and she was eventually let go with a fine. But the previous arrest was King Charles I. Make the point here that this must be a British text chain. No, it was an American and British text. In fact, I had I had texts from people on the West Coast who were up when this thing happened and who were just kind of crazed about it. I mean, they're indulging your Britishness. Maybe in, you know, I mean, as an American, you know, Prince Andrew or the former Prince Andrew. Could we care less? I'm just asking. I don't think anybody in Britain will get any work done at all today because this is such a big story. The Queen's favorite son arrested for giving Jeffrey Epstein proprietary business information. I get it. And that's another interesting aspect of this. So he's not being arrested for a sexual crime. And the entire focus of this scandal relating to Prince Andrew has, of course, been the sexual end of this. He's been arrested now for a financial crime. Do we know the details of this financial crime? It's really passing information that he had as a British trade envoy. And of course, the job was created for him a bit like an occupational therapy job by Prince Philip, because they knew that Andrew out on his own was dangerous. And we should point out that he did pay over, or his mother paid over, I think, £12 million to Virginia Dufresne as a settlement to get this thing done. And the point there would be? Well, the point would be that there was a sexual accusation here that he had slept with Virginia Jewfree. But he is not the point. That's not a he was not arrested for that. He was not convicted for that. He did not admit to that. So what we have now. No, he just gave over a check for 12 million pounds. It's an admission of something. Totally. Totally. You know, and and whether that is a PR thing, whether that is an admission, it's not an admission, actually. But it is a you know, we we don't know. But the point is, he is not being prosecuted for that. That would be one thing. And, you know, they could have prosecuted him for that. But they are now prosecuting him for this for this other thing. So this is so we have to ask, is this the Al Capone thing? You know, Al Capone was was was not prosecuted for the for the the murder, the murders, the tortures, the everything that he should have been prosecuted for and was instead prosecuted for on a tax charge. Right. He didn't file his taxes. So is that what's going on here? Or is there this other thing that's going on here, which is that everybody is trying? I mean, the country, Britain, your country, is in an entire kerfuffle. The government is in a kerfuffle. The palace is in a kerfuffle. I think it's kerfuffle. I think you've introduced an unnecessary L. That might be true. But it could be that in America, it's kerfuffle. It's so not kerfuffle. It's not kerfuffle in any country. And not even the rum bunch of countries that have turned up for the Board of Peace, which we'll come to in a minute. For you, it's kerfuffle? It's kerfuffle. Kerfuffle. Okay, well, let's... Anyway, please continue. Possibly in New Jersey. It's kerfluffle. It's never been. I'm sure in New Jersey it's kerfluffle. But to continue. So the palace, the palace and the government are in trouble over this and and are in a rush to place blame somewhere else. and Andrew is a, you know, and why not Andrew? Now, the interesting thing to me is that everybody has known about Andrew for as long as I can remember. He's a money-grubbing, pussyhound, wastrel who's never done anything with his life. Do we know more about is has the Epstein story revealed more about him? Well, I think what's happened is that the Epstein files have have given the police and those close observers of this case email evidence that this appears to have gone on. Of course, he hasn't been officially charged yet. That's expected to come over the next 24 hours. And I know this. The emails make this all the more vivid. But does it tell us more about Andrew than we had previously known? I think it tells us that he was cheaper than even we realized and that for room and board on the Upper East Side at Jeffrey Epstein's, he was willing to give up information, which he got in his privileged role as UK business envoy. Right. I am assuming that people thought the price was a bit higher than that, but in fact, he just loved having a free place to stay. This feels to me, and we'll see when this comes out and the details of this indictment, and they're pursuing a similar investigation against Peter Mandelson for similar kinds of things. We will see if this has the feel of a real financial corruption scandal or if this is just, you know, we've got to pin something on this guy. You know, let's just – we can't let him get away with this. Put this on him. And the two cases may be different. No one is suggesting that Prince Andrew or formerly Prince Andrew's business acumen is anything to be admired. In fact, the fact he was so desperate to stay free at Jeffrey Epstein's and the fact he seemed to be asking for loans from Jeffrey Epstein. And so was Fergie, his ex-wife. Epstein would always say that he was a money grubber. Right. Which everyone, again, everyone has known this for a long, long time. Right. With Peter Mandelson, who was business minister at the time, the fact that he managed to tell Jeffrey Epstein a full 24 hours in advance that Gordon Brown was going to resign as prime minister is genuinely confidential inside information. Yeah, no. And that's, I mean, Peter Mandelson was operating from the high levels of government. You know, Prince Andrew was clearly not operating from the high levels of government, clearly was operating from nowhere except that this, the peculiar status that he had as a son of the queen, which gave him no authority, no portfolio, no respect. even right I mean he was known as air miles Andy because this job was created for him by his father to keep him out of trouble they all knew that he was as you say a pussy hound that makes me that when he was known as Randy Andy Randy Andy so he went from Randy Andy to air miles Andy so he has been a joke for his entire life well he briefly had a period during the Navy where I think he wasn a joke I mean, he was in the Falklands War, briefly Falklands War, or the Malvinas, as the Argentinians called it. 45 years ago. Yeah, but after that, he's done very little with his life, unfortunately. So the issue, the larger issue for the British government is how to, and to some extent for the palace, is how to survive the Epstein scandal. Right. So if you're sitting down in Westminster or you're sitting down in the palace, you have to think, what are we going to do? We got to do something. We got to throw somebody overboard here. We got to pin this on somebody. what this has to be. We can't ignore this. So... So off with his head. So let's arrest him. So it's just, I can't tell you what an enormous story this is in the UK. And of course, it's still not clear that the Prime Minister, Keir Starber, is out of the woods with his own career. Let me ask you why it's such a story in the UK. Here is this person, Prince Andrew, who is he's insignificant in the modern British state. He's not even a part of it in any way. Wholly dismissed, wholly discredited. Somebody who, I mean, he's literally just there on the circumstance, the hapless circumstance in this case of his birth as not the first son. He doesn't become, he doesn't become anything. And so why are the Brits in such a... Well, firstly, he's paid for by the public purse. So he's, I mean, you know, we, well, the British taxpayer finances the royal family. And also big question marks over King Charles. In a sense, this is his Nixon moment. What did he know and when did he know it about Andrew's involvement with Jeffrey Epstein and Andrew handing over official British information? Is that the real question? I think it could be one of the real questions. And is this one of those moments of which we have seen in Again and Again where a kind of popular emotion rises to say to challenge the monarchy? Yeah, I think so. And I think William, who's very clearly... Pained. Well, I think he's more than pained. I think he's probably appalled by Andrew. And you could see in that extraordinary vignette where Andrew is trying to make contact with William and Kate on the steps of the Duchess of Kent's funeral that William doesn't want to talk to him, might have anything to do, turns his head. Princess Kate's sort of face is furious. Now, William is desperate. Fergie and Andy have tried to steal the moment. William is desperate about his job. He is looking at this and saying, you know, my job is at risk here. Yeah, it took Prince Charles 74 years to ascend to the throne. He promptly told everybody he'd got cancer. His time is limited. He's living with cancer. It's not apparently curable, but it's treatable and it's livable with whatever that means. But the assumption is that he's not going to be there forever. William is limbering up in the corridors of wherever he is, Windsor Castle, for the role. And William is appalled and understands that this could be very bad for the British royal family, that it could actually go the way. This goes the way of, in past examples, of the central royal family, the line, being willing to shun other members of the family who might compromise the legitimacy. The existence of it. Yeah, totally. Or give them bad PR problems. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So, again, it's a perilous moment. Perhaps the last perilous moment was the death of Princess Diana. But this feels like a genuinely perilous moment. And King Charles is very prominently saying no one is above the law. The law must take its course. And so what do you think will happen? How does this how does this play out? I think Andrew is charged. I think he's charged with giving away official information to Jeffrey Epstein. So he was put in the old bailey, and we see this. He has to stand there in that weird change that they have. Well, I think he'll stand there and deny it, like he denied it on that terrible news night thing where he said, I can't understand it. I can't explain it. But we will see a trial. Do they plea bargain in the UK? They can plea bargain. He might accept some sort of plea deal where he gets a custodial sentence. But it might be that we'll see him in the Old Bailey. I think it's unlikely. They're going to want to avoid that. He's going to have to do some sort of plea deal. Or maybe he does community service, except the local community don't want him living there. There have been all sorts of posters around Sandringham where he's been banished from Royal Lodge, where he was living with 30 bedrooms, to the much smaller Marsh Farm, which nevertheless is being renovated for him because he said he didn't like the state of the bathrooms or the kitchen. And all sorts of local people have put posters up saying we don't want Andrew here. But I'm assuming they'll do some sort of plea deal. I spent a number of weeks in a trial in the Old Bailey. I liked it. The British courts are amazing places to sit and watch things unfold. What was the case you were doing? Hacking. Hacking. Oh, the phone hacking. When Rebecca Brooks was Murdoch's key lieutenant was on trial. Wow. Well, I've covered many a court case at the Albay and the High Court. I actually was held in contempt. What for? For writing something. Apparently, in the UK, you're not allowed to write about a trial when the trial is ongoing. Well, that's not true. I mean, of course. That is exactly true. Well, you might have been given privileged information, but of course that people write about trials as the trials are ongoing. How would anybody know the trial was ongoing? Exactly. But you actually cannot do that. You cannot make I mean, there's there's some you can you can say some things, but you can't say other things like, hey, that person might be guilty. Well, no, you can't say that. You can't say that. In my country, you can. Yeah, you can't say that in Britain. While we're sitting discussing the future of the British monarchy, the future of world peace hangs in the balance as Donald Trump pulls his board of peace together in D.C. You know, and I went down the list of people who are attending, the members of his board of peace. Yeah. And it occurred to me that the members, actually the only members, comprise what Donald Trump used to regard as the shithole countries of the world. So the shithole countries have come to his aid. Well, and I'm sure perhaps the countries that he stopped war between. But what is this Board of Peace, which I think is being held at the Trump Institute of Peace? In D.C. In D.C. What is it supposed to do? It's supposed to raise money. Don't you remember there was going to be a billion dollar membership fee? Yes. No. Well, that's the cost to enter this august board. But the boards, then the purpose of this board, I mean, the purpose could just be to raise more money as the purpose seems to be of everything, particularly in the diplomatic sphere. But is there a more acceptable function that has been outlined here? I think isn't the function to rebuild Gaza and to support the rebuilding of Gaza into, as we know, the new Riviera? possibly is is that what is going on here is that what they are talking about it's to implement his vision for gaza to help but we don't know what that implement what that vision for gaza is other than there was a brief moment in which it was going to be the riviera right that that was the the starting point but since then i think it's fair to say that trump has broadened the scope for it to be the biggest, most important board in the world of world peace and world history. Of the least important people in the world. Yes. Now, this is going on at the very moment that a war-like force of really some consequence is enveloping Iran. Right So we I think creating the biggest buildup of troops since the war in Iraq in 2000 And when was that to 2003 And Trump is will he won he send in troops or bombing missions to Iran And does he want regime change? I mean, I think he's got himself in somewhat of a serious pickle here. You know, if he doesn't go at this point, I mean, he kind of really looks weak. And he's already he already looks looks like he's already backpedaled this quite, quite, quite a bit. Remember, he invited all of those protesters into the street under under the banner, basically, of his protection. Right. Help is on the way is what he is on the way. warnings to the Iranian regime. If you attack the protesters, you will have to answer to Donald Trump. Then, of course, they did attack the protesters at a level beyond anyone's imagination. And Trump did. What did he do? Nothing. So he's there. He's up against that. I mean, he was explicit on this point. And then he didn't do it. And all of those people died. Yeah, I think we've got between 6,000 and 8,000 people were shot dead. Seriously, under his watch, they died. So here he is now. Now he could back off again. But what does that make him look like? Or he can go forward. But the problem of going forward, which is why he didn't go forward the first time, is that it's very complicated. I mean, Iran is a is a big country, is a formidable military power, even degraded as it has been in our previous our previous attacks and in Israel's attacks. Um, but nevertheless, you know, when people in the white house always talk about his, his reluctance to go to war. I mean, and this is sort of as a, as a, as a good, as a good thing. Um, it's, it's been portrayed. He's not going to go to war because it's too complicated for him. Um, you know, he doesn't like to listen to generals. You know, all of the generals are kind of McKinsey train guys. He hates that. It's boring to him. It's PowerPoint. And he doesn't like he doesn't like to be confronted with information. War is an information heavy activity, to say the very least. Well, and he's not well supported by Pete Hegseth, the secretary of defense slash war. No, well, all but the general. I mean, there are a lot of obviously competent generals in the United States chain of command who are there and they're on the line. I mean, it's, you know, I mean, if failure will be blamed on them, plus they know the people who are being put in harm's way. They're there. This is their job. And so they take their job very seriously, and they take their job of informing the president of all of the variables here. In other words, the risks, because, I mean, this is kind of a blame situation. The commander in chief has to make the ultimate decision, and the ultimate blame is on him. So so they they're they they rush. And I and I have seen I've witnessed some of these these these meetings and they are thorough. They give you vastly more information than anybody would want. And Donald Trump wants no information. So it's a it's a it's a difficult moment for him to go forward in attacking Iran on a on a on a pretty massive scale, I think, would be is the implication. here. But it's also not what the MAGA base want. This is the last thing they want. They don't know where Iran is, like the president. They can barely find it on a map. This is not what he ran on. And it's really of, you know, is he doing this again? We've asked this before, but is this a wag the dog policy to get away from what happened in Minneapolis, to get away from the nonsense that didn't play well of Greenland, to get away from Venezuela that everybody's forgotten about? and away from the economy. No, I mean, I think that is a fast bombing attack. Yeah, you could say that. But a buildup like this, I think he's caught in the middle of this. You know, he can't back down because then he's going to look weak. He doesn't want to go forward because it's so complicated. Couldn't he back down by saying, we threatened it, they backed down. This is another, you know, a potential war I've resolved. Yes, I mean, I think that he will look for something like that. But, you know, this is pretty weak and it's pretty transparent, as it was this time. I mean, the Iranians are, you know, they really don't cooperate so that they might do something and then they go back to doing the same thing that they've said they wouldn't do, including shooting people all over the place. So, I mean, I think it's difficult at this point to say, oh, yeah, we've sat down with the Iranians and we have we have an understanding. I love them. You know, you know, I mean, Trump would come out and I mean, as he did with the North Koreans, you know, we're we're, you know, love the guy. I don't think that can happen in this situation. And I don't think I think it's going to be very difficult for Trump to come out with a credible result here and say, you know, we went eye to eye, the Iranians blinked, and this is what we've gotten. You know, I mean, listen, he says whatever he wants to say. And if he does not really want to go forward, he will say something like that. But I think it's going to be a difficult sell. Well, it's doubly ironic that he's meeting with his Board of Peace. And perhaps more importantly we should point out who's not at the board of peace or who hasn't sent uh high up representatives the uk hasn't france hasn't germany hasn't sweden hasn't norway hasn't in fact the countries that he he wants to be there aren't there and as you say he's he's got all of these yes and all of those those countries which are all of them of the the mainstay of western european nations are now, I don't know, pretty much our, well, they're being converted very quickly into our enemy. Well, I don't know if they're our enemy, but they are viewing America with much more skepticism than they did. They know they can no longer rely on it, and they're not going to pay the money. They don't want to be fleeced by Trump. I think the antagonism is mounting up almost on a daily basis. And, you know, whereas the antagonism before would have been at Russia or China or the Iranian, you know, whatever that standard view of the world in which the Western European nations, where our allies in everything, in history and in the world order, has so vastly changed. Just in the course of this past year, it's come tumbling down. Well, as Mark Carney, the Prime Minister of Canada, said, there's been a rupture in the golden, in the global order. And then this goes on again, and this has now come up with Trump's threats to break the treaty, the North American treaty, which exists between Mexico, the U.S., and Canada. So essentially, the people who he is arguably most antagonistic to are the Canadians. How that has come up, I mean, that's... Well, I think that he's probably jealous of Mark Carney, right? Mark Carney is everything Trump wanted to be and isn't. I mean, I think that there's a whole range of things, including this idea that Canada should be part of the U.S., which is logged in his brain in a serious brain-wormy way. And I'm not sure that he can get it. I mean, it is, you know, he looks at a map and says, and people in the White House describe this with, I would read their attitude as, well, clear-eyed. That he looks at a map and sees Canada is connected to the United States, this long border that we share. I mean, he has this obsession about borders. And he may not know anything else on a map, which he does not know, which he doesn't. But he does see here's the United States and here's Canada. And we all speak English or mostly. And why aren't we together? Well, there's a certain logic to that. Why aren't we together, except that it's a completely different country? Yes. So there is no logic to it, except the logic of looking at a map and not understanding what you seeing on the map Exactly Exactly All right Now most importantly we got lots of comments about my Melania bucket Some people don realize that it ironic A few people said it was outrageous I needed to get rid of it immediately. Some other people jumped in and said, no, it's ironic. But I do need suggestions. What is the Melania bucket? This was the 1299. Did you get popcorn in there? I got popcorn in here, which I immediately poured out because it looked suspect. but this is the 12.99 Melania bucket of popcorn that I'm assuming she got 70% of the back end. There's a picture of her here. But I'm up for interesting ideas. I think we could do something interesting with it. So I'm just reaching out to people. We could solicit all kinds of ideas for the Melania Merchandise Company, which is shortly being rolled out. Oh, it is? Yes. So it's not just Donald Trump's name on things. It's like it'll be Melania's name. It's dueling names. It's Melania. She's you know, she she wants to change wants him to change the name of Lincoln Center to Melania Center. Are you being serious? I'm not being serious. I was going to say that that I had that I was going to say that bypassed me totally. But now that I've said this, isn't it a. It's an excellent idea. Why does Lincoln need all these memorials? He, you know, Melania should have one. And we saw when the press on Air Force One asked whether or not he'd given her any flowers for Valentine's Day, he said, oh, it's complicated, but she's working very hard between Russia and Ukraine. So I'm sure she is. Yes. I'm sure she is. But really, I mean, the business that she is working to grow in New York, and let me emphasize it, is in New York because that's relevant to my case against her, is a broad marketing, merchandising, branding, licensing operation of which she is the centerpiece of. So, Michael, we have another big haired girl in charge of something which she doesn't appear to have the perfect background for. I'm talking about Chamberlain Harris. What a fantastic name, Chamberlain. She's 26. Trump has appointed her to the commission that will oversee the rebuilding of the East Wing. And of course, before she was elevated to this role, she was the receptionist at the White House, known as America's receptionist. Oh, you know, I used to because I spent a long time sitting in the West Wing and chatting with the various Trump receptionists. So I have a sort of fond place in my heart. She looks just like all the other young women that work in the White House who wear those shift dresses with the boots and they have magnificent hair. I'm thinking of Natalie Hart, Margot Martin. Some of them are mini versions of Melania. Carolyn Levitt, of course, or Levitt. And the hair is always loose hair. Oh, yeah, of course. It's worn down. It's not tied back or anything. Yeah. and she has a degree in political science from the University of Albany at State University of New York. She looks very sporty. Oh, yeah. No, no. Literally, she looks like everyone who has sat in that desk in the West Wing. Yes. I mean, and the hair is familiar. The grin is familiar. And she's 26 and she has no background in the arts whatsoever. and she's now part of the commission that is overseeing the renovation of the most important building in America. Well, I think that is, I mean, it's very clearly what he has set up. This is called the fix. She's the fix, part of the fix. That he has to get certain approvals there from a theoretical commission overseeing the renovation of the East Wing. But he has now stacked this commission so that the commission will have do what he wants done, which is to erect a completely inappropriate structure in that space. It really is remarkable when you look at the plans for it. This is a 90,000 square foot building on a 45,000 square foot White House and West Wing. I mean, it's just remarkable. I mean, it's almost as remarkable as Prince Andrew, formerly known as Prince, being arrested. And again, we've just forgotten about this. I think it is. And the point of this is that for it to be not to be integrated, not to be something that would seamlessly become part of this structure. The point is for it to stand out, for it to be the Donald Trump ballroom which will dwarf everything else. So the only thing that we will see is when we see the White House is Donald Trump's ballroom with a very big Donald Trump name on it, I can guarantee. It's just crazy. And also the arch, which they're currently budgeting 100 million for, but like the border will, I'm sure, grow quickly. And then that will block the view from the Washington Memorial to Arlington Cemetery. No, no. And this is just part of a part of, I mean, to say the least, part of this pattern of dominance of one man, the government of one, wanting him, wanting this, this, wanting everything to memorialize the fact that this is a government of one. A government of one and six million Epstein files still to be trawled through. Which, you know, I mean, I think we are back and let's, I mean, it's interesting to come back to this. I think that this is working out for him. You think that the Epstein files, in fact, turn out to be good for him? Totally. They're bringing everybody else down. They turn out to be a distraction from Donald Trump. So I think what he looked at with enormous trepidation, they're going to come from me because I'm all over these Epstein files, turns out because of the luck of Donald Trump, which one should never underestimate, to have thrown up so much smoke about so many other people that at best he's one of many and actually kind of for the first time in his life, Lost in the Crowd. Wow. Lost in the Crowd. Well, if you have been, Michael Wolff is not Lost in the Crowd. Inside Trump's head, the podcast is not, I hope, Lost in the Crowd. Thank you for joining us. Leave your comments for us on YouTube. Subscribe to The Daily Beast, where you can keep up to date with everything that's going on. And it's hard to keep up with everything that's going on. I mean, I was thinking this morning, you know, A terrible story of eight dying in a ski avalanche in Lake Tahoe, which would normally dominate the news. The former president of South Korea about to be sentenced to life imprisonment for inflicting a brief period of martial law. For doing things that are not dissimilar to what Donald Trump is doing. Right. Absolutely. So he must be watching that. although he's probably not watching it because he's thinking, well, why wasn't he stronger? He should have just been more dominant with martial law. And of course, the terrible story of Nancy Guthrie, who's just disappeared. And Keystone Cash Patel's FBI seem to have no clues whatsoever. So in normal times, these stories would all dominate the news. But of course, we're not in normal times. We're in Trump times and he dominates the news. and i should say subscribe to michael's sub stack howl which i gather you've got another piece up on epstein today i haven't read it yet it's not up yet that's why you haven't read oh that's why i haven't read it yes and i'm um um i i'm i'm slightly wavering on it because it will ruffle some feathers, but hell. Can I ask whose feathers? Most. That's my specialty. Most feathers will be ruffled. Okay. Most feathers will be ruffled. All right. Well, I shall look forward to reading it post-haste then. Perhaps you could send me an early draft. Do I not get any benefits as being your co-host on Inside Trump's Head? I think I should get early drafts of your column. In minutes. Okay. And I've written a column. I've written a column about the seriousness of Prince Andrew, formerly known as Prince, being arrested, and Peter Mandelson and what's in store, and how this remarkable story continues to spread. And as you say, it may be Donald Trump's good luck that there are so many other people implicated that he for once doesn't stand out in the crowd. So the good news is we have so many B-beast tier members now. There are too many names to read out. and we really appreciate your support. Thanks to our production team, Devon Rogerino, Ryan Murray, Rachel Passer, Heather Passaro, Neil Rosenhaus.
