Heavyweight: Live from New York

This is an I Heart Podcast. Guaranteed Human. You'll get free because you'll be the sponsor. Plus, and this is what really puts the plus and push-and-plus. You'll also get bonus material. If you want to get 25% off an annual push-and-plus subscription, head to pushkin.fm slash plus and use the code Heavy25. Thanks for your support. Pushkin. In October, the heavyweight gang gathered in New York City for a live event at Kaviyat on the lower east side. If I may be so bold as to speak on behalf of the crowd, the weight staff, and pushkin industries as a whole, a lovely time was had by all. There was a wall to write down your regrets and a meet and greet where you could take a picture with yours truly. Three, two, one. Thank you. I feel like I'm smiling in all these pictures. So what you're doing is not quite as much. It feels like they're my soul animals, so good luck to your soul. Heavyweight, the first episode came out when I was 12. Very 22 next week. Now I feel like I practically raised you. If you weren't able to attend, fear not, we've recorded the event so that you can still experience it at home, half undressed, and drinking less expensive beverages through the miracle of audio. Hi everybody. Thank you so much for coming to this live event, celebrating the launch of the new season of Heavyweights. We're so glad you're here. My name is Greta Cohen. I'm the CEO of Pushkin Industries. We are the audio network that is the home to Heavyweights and we are so thrilled that they are part of our network. The new season is wonderful. I'm sure you've all been listening to it and today you're in for a real treat. Later on, the producers of the show, Stevie Lane and Cleela Holt will be coming on stage and they're going to answer along with Jonathan some of your questions that you've submitted. But first, Jonathan will be joining us to do a live reading. He has asked me to read an introduction to this reading. Okay. Jonathan asked me to read this introduction to his reading of the Old Testament of Canaan Abel. For those of you who haven't cracked open a Bible or unscrawled a Torah, Canaan Abel were the sons of Adam and Eve. Adam and Eve lived in a beautiful garden called Eden where they've froliced in the nude all day, but relaxed. Back then, nudity was less a Rio de Janeiro, HBO After Dark thing, and more a Nordic health spot thing filled with good clean living and fruit platters. Also, everyone in Eden got to live forever and not have to go through a painful childbirth or work for a living. It was a pretty grubby trip until the whole tree of knowledge thing went down and Adam and Eve were expelled. Jonathan has here chosen to retile the story of Adam and Eve's kids, Canaan Abel, who were born after the expulsion as an illustration of the very first heavyweight, a heavyweight in which two beefing brothers are reconciled by the Lord. On heavyweight, the role of the Lord is played by Jonathan Goldstein. Ladies and gentlemen, Jonathan Goldstein. Music Back in those first days, things changed very quickly. quickly. A new person being born meant there was a giant spike in the population. For Cain, his younger brother, Abel's birth, made the planet feel lopsided. He watched Eve bounce Abel in her lap and felt the Earth's gravity tilt in their direction. It pulled at the insides of his stomach and made him seasick. Years later, Adam and Eve would have many more children, but just then there was only Cain and Abel. Because there was nobody else, the brothers grew close. They played each other's stomachs like snare drums, cracked each other's knuckles as though they were cracking their own. They were different though. Abel was a thinker. He thought about things. If he bit off his own pinky toe, would he grow back? Cain, on the other hand, was a doer. He'd reel back his fist and break a donkey's nose for the sheer thrill of it all. One day, when Adam and Eve thought the children were old enough, they sat them down and told them about the screw-up. What does it mean to die, ask Cain? We're not exactly sure, said Eve, but basically, one day, and this is not any day soon, we will no longer be. There was silence. Then Abel spoke up. If we won't be, he said, then we won't even know that we're not being. There will be no we to see that we can no longer be. Yes, I guess that's true, said their mother, well put. Abel smiled and went back to mashing a mutton liver into pate. Cain, on the other hand, felt like a sharp plum pit had been forcefully lodged down his throat. All his life, he had felt like himself, that his face and fingers, that his thoughts were his own. Now he felt like they were someone else's, someone who could yank them away at any chosen moment. Until then, it had never crossed his mind that such a thing could even be possible. The brothers continued to live their lives, but all the while Cain felt a new sadness. It ate with him, worked with him, and in the morning it raised from his bed with him, dying. It just didn't make any sense. He knew this deep in his heart. He thought nothing was more important than making God change his mind. He began to take his sacrifices more seriously. They became elaborate and garish. They involved richly choreographed interpretive dances, colorful oblong facial masks, and the very best of his legumes. But God never answered. Cain started to change. When he got a splinter, he cursed the heavens all out of proportion. Back in the garden of Eden, there were no splinters. He even started to resent his parents. He spoke of them as though they had gambled away his inheritance. If it hadn't been for dumb, dumb number one, tempting dumb, dumb number two, we'd be living in luxury. Cain tried to get Abel all worked up about the whole thing, too. But Abel had an easy come, easy go. We all have to die someday, attitude, that drove his brother nuts. Cain invented a game. He called it Get the hell out of Eden. He always insisted on playing God. Get your naked ass as out of here, yelled God. What? But we just got here, yelled Adam and Eve. Maybe there's some kind of mistake. The Lord does not make mistakes. God would then kick his brother, who would fall to the ground. Please, please have mercy on me, his brother would cry. Let's play something else. But God would only laugh. Abel also made sacrifices to God. Every week he would choose the fattest sheep as an offering. Everything Abel did in life was for a reason. He ate so that he would not be hungry. He made clothes so that he would not be cold. But making sacrifices to God, he did it for reasons he could never know. He did it simply because he was told to. There was something about that that made him feel clean and deep. Adam and Eve made their sacrifices out of fear of being further punished. And Cain was pleading for answers and changes. But Abel fulfilled his obligation and walked away expecting nothing from God. He was glad with the way things were. And God could not have helped liking that. Meanwhile, Cain decided to test out a new approach with the Lord. He believed that God would have greater respect for him. If he did not cow-tow, he's going to kill us, he thought. He wanted God to understand that he couldn't walk all over people and then still have them come crawling back with their arms loaded with gifts. No, they had to get tough. So Cain's sacrifices grew lack of daisicle. He didn't even bother to check of his gifts were being received. That would look like he was caving. Then one day, while Cain was lying in a field, Abel came running over. God spoke to me, cried Abel. Cain sat up and looked at his brother. What did he say? He said he was a great fan of my lamb chops. He told me to keep up the good work. Was my name mentioned? Ask Cain. It didn't come up. What was it like to hear his voice ask Cain? Look at me, Cain Abel. I'm still shaking. There was a certain pang that Cain started to feel. It was in his stomach. He felt the pang row sharpest when he looked upon his brother. He could hardly speak with him without having to hunch over in pain. Since the world was still new and no one had yet felt this way, Cain did not know that it was jealousy he was feeling. Instead, he decided that his stomach no longer wanted to be his stomach. It wanted to escape his ribcage. It wanted to be Abel's stomach. This was because he wanted to be Abel. There was no shame in this. Being Abel meant being happy, being Cain meant being wretched. He had a plan. He approached Abel with it. He decided to just spring it on him. I am no longer Cain, he said. I am now Abel. We are both Abel. All right, said Abel. The two Abel's performed routines for the amusement of their brothers and sisters. How's that Abel Abel? It's fine Abel. But then one day Cain asked, if I am Abel, am I just as much Abel as you yourself are Abel? I suppose that's true, said Abel. Then before God, are we both not Abel? Ask Cain. Well, in the case of being before God, I think at that time I would be Abel and you would go back to being Cain. Cain's eyes lingered on his brother. He looked at this other Abel as standing in the way of who he was. He was Abel. He knew this in his heart. He simply wanted it more. Abel was among his flock when Cain neared him. Slowly Cain pulled out his rock and slowly he lifted it into the air. This way God will have to show himself. This way God will have to stop playing possum and get directly involved. These were Cain's thoughts. Still though there was no sign of God. He looked at the back of Abel's head. Then he looked into the sky. Just in case God was reading his mind, he thought to himself, I'm really, really going to do it. He brought his rock down onto his brother's head. He could hear no sound at all. Abel just toppled over. He toppled over the way he did everything, with an easygoing acceptance. He sank to the earth as though thinking, I must fall fall. I am falling. I have fallen. Here it was, death. Cain couldn't believe it. He had been sure that at the last moment God would step in. He had thought only God could take a person's life, but it was as simple as killing a sheep. Abel, his eyes wide and unblinking, stared directly into the mystery of life and death, and he was not saying a word about any of it. The sheep continued to graze and the sun continued to shine. There were no bolts of lightning, no booming voice from behind the clouds. Life went on. That night God appeared before Cain in a dream. Where is your brother ask God? It's always about my brother, said Cain. Do you ever ask where I am? No, that you don't think of. What have you done, ask God? Am I my brother's keeper, ask Cain? God did not answer. He just gave him a look. It made Cain feel naked and small. He then felt the finger of God upon his forehead. It sank through his head and into his brain where it spoke. The earth shall scorn you, said the voice from the finger. I shall scorn you. You will wander the earth and death will not come. There will be no escape. All will look upon you and none will dare kill you, for they will know you by your mark. God with Jewish finger leaving behind a fingerprint on Cain's forehead. It was shaped like a tear drop. At first he tried to convince himself that the mark was to protect him, that he had a secret pact with God that they understood each other. For a while he would wake up in the morning and pretend to be immortal and famous, but he was not very good at pretending. As the centuries passed Cain abandoned farming and roamed the earth, he walked with a sense of purpose just in case anyone was watching, but in his heart he knew he had nowhere to go. He became so lonely and full of regret that instead of fearing death he became yearnful of it. He would chase after bears and they would scamper away. They haven't the guts, he'd say. Run you little cowards. He'd call after the tigers. Look at me, he'd cry into the face of an alligator as he tried and vain to pry open its jaws. More centuries passed and Cain's desire for death became nearly constant. He would think about able up in heaven, piling around with God, flying through the clouds on God's shoulders while he was left to putze around for hundreds of years begging his own children to drive sharpen branches through his heart. In life Cain had been jealous of his brother, but it was in death that he became more jealous than he ever thought possible. Over time Cain can no longer remember very much at all. Twenty years after the death of his brother, it seemed like it was only yesterday, but after 200 years it felt like something that might have happened in a dream. There were details he remembered that now seemed improbable, like the way he saw his brother's soul leave his body and the way he'd waved goodbye to him and winked. After 300 and 400 years it all felt so long ago that who he was back then felt like someone else. When people he met asked him questions about the old days he just made stuff up. We had wings, he said. After 500 years his story was repeated so often that he only remembered the repeating, not the events themselves. It sounded like a fable, something that might have just as easily happened to a fox and a rabbit as to himself and his brother. He began to doubt everything. He even began to wonder whether he had actually ever heard God's voice, whether the mark on his forehead was the mark of God and not just another liver spot. Was this a part of the punishment he wondered? To be left so uncertain of whether God really was or whether God was only something inside his own head? After 700 years when he told the story to himself or heard it told by others he felt nothing. He was too old to feel guilt or remorse or anything. He didn't even miss his brother anymore. He wanted nothing from God. He wanted nothing from the world. The world was what it was. He didn't need it to change. And in this way he finally got his wish to be just like Abel. And then God let him die. Thank you. After the break a Q&A with Stevie, Kulila and me. But first our producer Phoebe headed to the wall of regrets to see what regrets were trending. Can I ask you about you regret? I just really regret not going to see the catacombs when I was in Paris. I really like skulls. I regret I didn't pay enough in contact with certain friends of mine who were like religious and are now getting married. So I'm not getting invited to the weddings. And God do I want to be at the weddings just because I really like weddings. Do you guys mind just reading these a lot for me like some of the ones that you're looking at? Yeah. Not finding a therapist. Staying known for the reason. Not being more patient with my mother's cognitive decline. Lacking patients with my brother's behavior than he died. How I said goodbye to my best friend before he died. I wish I joined a band. Hey everyone. When heavyweight returned last year we were so encouraged by the heartfelt messages from you, our dear listeners. I can safely say that without you heavyweight wouldn't exist today. So thank you. And if you want to take your valuable support to an even higher, invaluable level, consider signing up for pushkin plus. It makes us look good to our bosses. And you'll get to listen to heavyweight at free because you'll be the sponsor. Plus, and this is what really puts the plus in pushkin plus. You'll also get bonus material. If you want to get 25% off an annual pushkin plus subscription, head to pushkin.fm slash plus and use the code heavy25. Thanks for your support. So now we are going to move into the Q&A portion of our event today. And I'd like to welcome to the Sage Khalila Holt and Stevie Lane, the producers of the show. Hi. Hi. Hello. Hi everybody. Hello. Hi. All. So we asked you questions that you wanted to hear the heavyweight team answer about the show. And we got so many. I think we are also going to have a little bit of time today to do some audience Q&A. Kicking things off with our Q&A here. What does Jonathan and Jackie's off-show relationship really look like? Should I take this one? It's about you. So yeah, but you might have a more objective window. I don't know. I think it's a pretty accurate glimpse into our dynamic. We've been friends since childhood. She likes to laugh at me and hang up and I don't know. I mean, the first time I met Jackie, I remember we really bonded because over like she was like, isn't he annoying? And I was like, yeah. I feel like that made her like me. The first time I met Jackie, I was like, I want to be you when I grow up. She's very powerful. She's a very powerful person. Yeah, and she's a really nice person too. I mean, I just bring out the worst in her. It's not her fault, I don't think. She's like, yeah, she's a doctor. She helps people. She does good works. And I just bother her, you know. So I hope it's bringing some levity to her life, but truly I don't know. But for the people who don't know the backstory. There is a backstory. Well, just that you went to school together and she was like a popular girl. She was very popular. Yeah. If you really want to go deep on the backstory, I did a story about a relationship on this American life called the Allure of the Mean Friend. And I just talked to people about what Jackie co-inment in grade school and in junior high. And she meant a lot. Yeah. What was the hardest episode to record and why slash which call has made you the most nervous to dial? I was the most nervous calling sorority girls for Rose. They were very... I remember there was like a Facebook thread where they were like a sketchy sounding woman left us a message. And I was like, I thought I sounded really nice and normal. I think for me it was very early. When I just joined the show and you guys were working on a story at the time and you were trying to find this two or three-fingered man who had hung up on you many times. And I was just like new and bright eyed and I was like, what can I do to help? And John was like, you could try calling this guy. And I called him and he told me he would find out where I lived and killed me. Yeah, I was like in right of passage. Everybody who was new on the show had to call his name is Carl. But yeah, that would have been a good story too. The one where he finds me and murders me. He threatened to kill me. That's Carl. Then you've got a true crime series. Yeah, yeah, it's true. My hardest call was there was an episode where I was trying to find out about my psychiatrist that I had when I was a teenager and find out if she was a really good psychiatrist or you just don't know with a psychiatrist because it's so sealed off. You know, you don't get or do you get ready to help ratings? Maybe now you do. Back then you didn't. And I remembered someone that used to be in the waiting room when I would leave. He was a professor I once had when I was in college and I thought, maybe I can ask him. And so I had to call him and say, hey, I used to see you in the waiting room of my psychiatrist 30 odd years ago. That was very weird. That was even for me that felt very weird. He had retired. He was living in Jamaica. That was a weird one. Who is a dream celebrity whose problem you'd want to solve? Steve. So Sarah Jessica Parker is a fan of the show. And all that I want is to reunite her with Kim Kutroll. And I email her agent every year when we're looking for stories. And I'm like, just checking in, like wondering if Sarah has anybody she maybe needs to reconcile with. I should give it any thought. So far, she's been too busy. But now that I'm just like that is over, I feel like she might have more time. Perfect time. Yeah. Anybody else? I don't know. Celebrities don't have problems, do they? Oggi has one. Oh, Oggi? Yeah. Who did you just say? Oh yeah, Tendure, Clamara, and Drake. Oggi is my son. And he's a very big rap fan. He wants to see me reconcile the whole. Would I probably be huge numbers for us? I'm serious. I'm like, that's a great idea. Perfect for audio. Yeah. So good idea, actually. Oggi, we should present. I know. Like, why can't you fellas just because that whole Super Bowl thing was really at a hand? I mean, that was, that was rough. To me, maybe have an opening for a new assistant producer. Oggi, Likin. Yeah, he's going to be nine. He should also say. Hard time. Yeah. He can balance it with school. Okay. Sometimes it seems like there's no progress or revelation to someone's journey until weeks or months later. How does the team maintain the morale to not be discouraged? And years, I mean, I think I am discouraged most of the time. I think I don't maintain the morale. It would be my answer, yeah. I sort of feel like, I think I have the attitude that just like, I just believe it actually will always work out because I think we've, there've been a lot of stories that we've thought were dead and then like years later, something changes, we get back in touch, whatever, and then they end up happening. So I just, I think I just, it's blind optimism. I was going to say, I think Stevie brings up for all of us. Yeah, and you have your work cut out. Yeah, it's, I, for me, a desperation. It's always, that's what passes for hope, I think, is the desperation. If you could expand any episode into a season-long series, which one would you revisit and what avenues would you take to further explore within that story? Well, do you remember when we did that like a two-day descent into madness where we laid out that whole whiteboard? Oh, yeah, yeah. Well, that, yeah, again, desperation. I mean, it came about the shorthand that we were using. We were going to Estown it. Yeah, we were like, this is going to be our, this is going to be our, also Eston just became a, that way it was like, we're going to Estown this season. Yeah, it just felt like none of our stories were working out, but we thought that you're too young to get the reference to the love boat, but like, we're visiting different characters. Thank you. You know, like, we couldn't solve the story, but like maybe from week to week, we can drift from character to character and like, keep working on them and like, tangle them all up together. Nobody would notice that none of them had an end. But truly, we spent like, I think two whole days laying out like what the structure would look like. And then at the end of the two days, we were like, this is insane. And we just erased the whiteboard. I think it might have been more than two days. Really? It felt like a sizable chunk of time. Yeah. I don't know. There's like my friends, I don't know where they are. The airlicks are here, Gregor. And is, yeah, the right to gas. And his brother, Dmitry. And I mean, I feel like we could do a season of just like called the airlicks where there would be so many good stories, you know. Yeah. At a time when people are increasingly concerned about privacy, how do you get people to speak to you and spill their hearts out on tape? Well, I haven't noticed a lot more people do the, I thought it was a scam. So I didn't answer you. And I don't know if people actually think we're running some elaborate, confusing scam or if that's kind of just like a shorthand for like I didn't want to respond to this. Yeah, because what kind of scam would it be really? It's not a very good one. Like a real long con. Yeah. And also people don't answer the phone. Yeah. Like people who are in a number. And I feel like that's changed even just in the time we've been doing the show. Like people used to pick up a lot more. Yeah. How do we convince them to talk once they do pick up the phone? My feeling is like people are either inclined to do it or not. And it doesn't matter that much what you say. Like they kind of have already made up their mind. That's true. Yeah. Have you ever actually convinced anybody like where they didn't? Not like a hard no to a yes. I've had people who are on the fence. You like then they think about it and agree. But have you? The most was maybe in, I don't know if you guys remember the sky, the story about sky who had her best friends. They wrote the F word on her garage door. I'm saying the F word because my son's here and it would excite him too much. And one of the girls who were a part of it, she didn't want to talk and we spoke a lot. We had many conversations over several days and eventually she agreed to do it. And she agreed to do it for a really nice reason. Like she wanted to show her daughter that it's okay. Like you could comp to something that you did that you're not proud of. You know, and that was really sweet. I also, there was also Chris in the Barbara episode. Oh yeah. That was the real. We did a two-parter about Jonathan's mother-in-law's childhood friend. And in trying to find her, we ended up on the phone with someone she'd been briefly engaged to when she was younger. And at first, he didn't want to talk to the ex, I mean, he was threatening legal action. He was like, my daughter's a lawyer. I'm going to come after you. I don't want it any part. And it was very, I was producing Jonathan on the call. And I found a very scary, having flashbacks to the three-fingered man kind of. And you just kept him talking. You just kept him talking. And I remember, we got off the phone. I was like, what made you do that? And you were like, I just have the feeling that he actually wants to talk about this. Yeah. And he called back and was like, yeah, I do want to talk about this. Right. It was like, I don't know. I felt like it was kind of like the phone call that you've been waiting for for like 30 odd years or more. I don't know. It just had that kind of feeling to it. So I've been very excited to ask you guys this question. Who would play you and have you wait the movie? I do have an answer. It's just my stock answer. Who would play me in a movie, which is Aubrey Plaza. That's so good. I mean, I think, you know, in my mind, I'm like a very lanky tall sort of like Johnny Knoxville type. But I know that it would end up being like Wallace Sean who, you know, maybe Paul G. Mettie. I don't know you. I really don't know how you're going to come back to you on this one. Okay. We'll come back to you on that. Hey, everyone. It's me, Stevie. So this question continued to haunt me for weeks until I finally decided to hold a swim. There's more Q&A coming up right after the break. Hi, Kyle. Could you draw up a quick document with the basic business plan? Just one page as a Google doc and send me the link. Thanks. Hey, just finished drawing up that quick one page business plan for you. Here's the link. But there was no link. There was no business plan. I hadn't programmed Kyle to be able to do that yet. I'm Evan Ratliffe here with a story of entrepreneurship in the AI age. Listen as I attempt to build a real startup run by fake people. Check out the second season of my podcast, Shell Game on the iHeart Radio app or wherever you get your podcasts. Our live event also featured a telephone. But unlike all those boring ordinary telephones that only let you reach businesses, institutions, and private residences, this telephone only allowed you to reach me, Jonathan Goldstein, and not even me really, but my answering machine. When you picked up the receiver, you heard a message prompting you to record your own heavyweight story. And you sure showed me because record those stories you did. Hi, you've reached Jonathan Goldstein. I'm not at home right now because I'm in the middle of the live performance of a lifetime. But in the meantime, leave a message with your story. Don't overthink it. Just do the job. Do the job. Do the job. Don't say no, say yes. I was ghosted by every single male member of my high school class. And I don't know if I did something, I thought all these people like me. I certainly liked them. Found out that my dad was married beforehand. It was an arranged marriage. So I'm a Indian. And it's very unique or very rare to get divorced during an arranged marriage. Definitely cause rifts between my dad and the community. I would say that I'm not a very imaginative person. I enjoy logic. And I went to bed one night and I had a dream that my grandmother had died randomly. Told my friends at breakfast and they were like just trying to do the 40th thing of like, what could that mean? And me sort of just blowing them off being like dreams don't mean anything. And then about four hours later, I received a call from my sister saying, hey, sorry to tell you, but grandma died. Hi, my name is Tamiitri Erlich. My story is once I was embedded out to a bachelor party and we went out in Lurham and Han, to Chinatown to a Chinese massage partner. And we had wonderful foot massages. And you, Jonathan, were doing an incredible job of pretending that it was painful because it felt great in every way. So my question is, have you ever considered doing any theatrical acting, either in film or television or on stages? Because you're obviously quite a gifted, lesbian. Thank you. Oh, I'm a gruggler's brother, by the way. And now back to the Q&A. Q&A stands for questions and answers. If Jonathan and Gräger could only listen to one movie song on repeat during a road trip, which one would it be? Well, Gräger, should we turn the house lights off? What would be the song, Gräger? Please, could you stand up so people can... I don't know where we're going on this road trip. Here's to figure out why we're on a road trip together. I don't know. Let's say we were going to go to Frontier Town together. I don't know, like something fun. I don't know. I can imagine fighting with you about the radio on a road trip. How about that for an answer? Like fighting over which Moby song we would listen to? Yes, exactly. All the Moby's greatest hits, Moby's play, Moby, Moby. But you do listen to Moby songs. I'm constant repeat. All I listen to is Moby. Actually, I have a question for you, because you get said you're going to take Q&A from the audience. Well, was that all spontaneous stuff that you guys were really just winging it, or did you already have your prefab like... No, that was just off the cuff. Like jazz, yeah, improvising. All GMMody. Nice zingers. Thank you. Was that your question? Yeah, I was curious. Maybe Stanley. Tucci. Okay, all right. Thank you. Yeah, that's very nice. Thank you. I'd like the sounds you're making of support. Thank you. Well, Gregor is correct. We are shifting into audience Q&A portion. So there are a couple of mics around. Hi, I think I'm the biggest fan now. So Jonathan, you recently had that episode about stopping drinking. And then because I'm your biggest fan of heavyweight. You had that live event episode where they alluded to how you needed a drink before you spoke, how it helped you. So I was just wondering tonight. Yeah, yeah. What's going on and how it is? I'm lit. I'm tanked. No, I... Yeah, this might be the first time I'm doing this. Yeah, it makes me a little nervous. But yeah, I haven't had anything to drink. And hi, Emma, by the way. Hi. Are you guys friends? Oh, you just sit in the side of you. Emma mixes our episodes. She's the sound engineer and composes music. Emma, my... Yeah, it's... Yeah, it was definitely in my thoughts because I used to really like to do that to have a drinker, two or three before talking and a couple afterwards. So yeah, I'm just a free ball in it. I don't know. Yeah. And it was definitely a nuanced view of stopping drinking. Like, is it better? Yeah, it is. Some days, I was saying last night to my friend Alex, I was saying I miss that feeling of like that everything is all right. Everything's going to be okay. You know what I mean? Which is like a little... But you got to figure it... Like, you have to manifest that. You have to figure out how to get that feeling on your own. You know, it's not real. So yeah, I'm still working on that. And it is going to be all right. Well, thank you. Thank you for saying that. Hi, everyone. I just want to reflect based off of that episode as well. I just recently lost her friend, Doc, all of a sudden. And sorry. Your episode was really touching because it was a way to externalize and even open up those conversations. And I sent it to our friends group and it helped us a lot too. So thank you for being honest and open. Thank you. Thank you for saying that. That's really... That's encouraging to hear. Thank you. Yeah. My question is, I'm sure there are stories that are just in the vault still being worked on year after year. Can you share a little bit of what's currently still being in development? Or if there's a story that you really wish can have. See the letter date at some point? That's a good question. I don't know. Anything come to mind? I'm like scared to talk about any of them though because I'm afraid I'm going to like do them to never happen. But there are ones that I really... You're hopeful about. That I would like love. Yeah, I've came back to life. Yeah. Yeah, sometimes you have like all the elements and you're... It's very exciting and then this one person doesn't want to talk and you know. So it's weird model to be basing things on that. But that's how I felt about why I'm like hedging a little bit is that's how I felt about the messenger which is when we just did this season. Like when we got laid off from Spotify I did not forward the emails to myself because I was like this story said. So I don't need these. And then it came back to life. We never thought we'd get to talk to if you listen to the episode Pat Croci who we needed to talk to and it just seemed like he wasn't going to do it. And Quincy had told us now. Yeah. And then it was like a friend of a friend over dinner and it was this true serendipity. We got really lucky. Yeah. When you all are listening to recordings of yourselves doing interviews or having conversations with people have you learned that you have certain conversational habits that you've tried to alter or emphasize. That's a good question. I noticed that I laugh when I'm nervous in the middle of things that are not funny. And that's like something I've tried to stop. Especially when I'm interviewing someone on like a serious topic. You know sometimes you like ask a question and then you kind of laugh when you're uncomfortable and then when I'm cutting it I'm like what am I doing? So I've tried to stop doing that. I'll just say I have the exact opposite problem. I can't laugh. Like I wish I did laugh more easily and I wish I had a free and easy laugh that told people like it's funny. That's great. Keep coming. So I wish I had a little bit of that. I will pitch my voice up, especially when I'm calling people to interview them. And I hate it. I hate it so much. And when I listen to it I'm like, hi, I'm Stevie. I'm calling from the podcast Heavyweight. And it's very and then like the tape doesn't even sound like me. Like the difference between that I really try to work on not doing. But I do think it's encouraging and something I learned from you, Jonathan, is whenever I do something really stupid and embarrassing and tape rather than cutting it out and trying to hide it, I'm like, well that's going to be front and center in the story. You're embarrassing yourself for a higher purpose. That's wonderful. Yeah. Most people go through their lives just embarrassing themselves. Willie Nellie for nothing. But for me it's for art. My question is I've noticed a lot of the episodes feature like interpersonal friendship relationships, focusing on like really deep platonic relationships over years. So Howard and Gregor and then when you went to Pilates with your friend or like things like that. And I just love that. And what's your like advice for friendship longevity? You guys haven't lived long enough to answer that question. I don't have any friends. I think it helps to be amused. And like I was saying I'm not an easy laugh. But I do Gregor really makes me laugh when he's busting my chops. If you get a kick out of that then you're unstoppable. I mean what's going to you know what's going to destroy you? Nothing I say. I don't know that I have an answer. I mean I'm very I do have some long friendships including my friend I want to Pilates with. But I'm like I don't know why. I don't know why there's still my friends but I'm grateful for it. You're a good person is why. Oh thanks, Tron. Sure. I didn't mean to you know bring the place down. I have an adult contemporary side. Well grab a drink say hello and thank you again for coming. And thank you for coming virtually and thanks to everyone who made the show possible. That includes Phoebe Flanagan, Kira Posey, Tara Machado, Amy Haggadorn, Jordan McMillan, Eric Sandler, Sarah Ruggair and especially Morgan Ratner. Live sound mixing from the staff of caveat and mixing for this broadcast version by Emma Munger. We'll be back next week with a brand new episode and Unlive episode, the regular old kind. Hey everyone. When heavyweight returned last year we were so encouraged by the heartfelt messages from you, our dear listeners. I can safely say that without you heavyweight wouldn't exist today. So thank you and if you want to take your valuable support to an even higher invaluable level consider signing up for Pushkin Plus. It makes us look good to our bosses and you'll get to listen to heavyweight at free because you'll be the sponsor. Plus and this is what really puts the plus in Pushkin Plus. You'll also get bonus material. If you want to get 25% off an annual Pushkin Plus subscription head to pushkin.fm slash plus and use the code heavy 25. Thanks for your support. This is an iHeart podcast. Guaranteed Human.