Shock New Details About Guthrie Kidnapping, and Don Lemon's Absurd Kimmel Appearance, with Rich Lowry, Charles C.W. Cooke, Jim Fitzgerald, and Randy Sutton | Ep. 1244

Welcome to the Megan Kelly Show live on Sirius XM channel 111 every weekday at NEAST. Hey everyone on Megan Kelly welcome to the Megan Kelly show it is a race against the clock in the search for Nancy Guthrie mother of today show host Savannah Guthrie this case is bizarre and disturbing law enforcement sources telling the Los Angeles Times that blood was found inside of her Arizona home alongside signs of forced entry prompting detectives to investigate what they now describe as a quote possible kidnapping or abduction. Fox News reporting this morning that their sources say quote blood drops were also found leading from the entryway outside down the house's pathway toward the driveway. So both inside the house and a trail leading across the entryway and into the driveway. During an interview with news nation this morning Pima County Sheriff Chris Nanos would not confirm the reports of blood but again those earlier publications are citing law enforcement and said that the DNA results that they have tested so far have come back only belonging to Nancy. We're not confirming whether there was blood in the home or any of that what we're saying is we do have evidence that we submitted to DNA labs actually through other sources that we use and they have confirmed that the DNA that we found was in fact belong to Nancy the Savannah's mom which which we we were hopeful that it wouldn't that it was give us a different profile than just hers but that's where we're at with the DNA we have other items that we submit for DNA research and see what that comes up with that was the first uh submitter we've got back and we'll continue to wait for lab results see if we find something else. Hmm so if those reports are real and and accurate Nancy Guthrie was bleeding she was hurt somehow inside the house she was bleeding as she was taken outside of the house and so far no DNA belonging to somebody else that doesn't mean no one else was there just means no one else left DNA at least not that they've found so far there although you know with touch DNA being what it is in today's day and age let's just wait and see on that I'm sure they did a comprehensive testing of all the surfaces and certainly anything that was near the blood trail to see whether they could get touched DNA and was this person if they actually took her so careful Brian Colberger like that every inch of their person was covered the odds are against it the sheriff confirmed that they are still waiting on the results of additional items that have been tested time remains crucial in this case with the sheriff warning that if Nancy does not get certain medication within 24 hours it could be fatal I mean he said that yesterday she was taken Saturday night we believe overnight Saturday into Sunday um and now here we are Tuesday he issued a direct plea to whomever may be holding her what would you say to someone who if they're holding Nancy Guthrie right now what's your message to them just call us let her go just call us we uh family would tell you there's no questions asked here look if she's alive right now her meds are vital I can't stress that enough you know it's been better than 24 hours in the family tells us if she doesn't have those meds it can become fatal hmm today show host Savannah Guthrie posted on Instagram last night asking for prayers for her mother's safe return writing quote we believe in prayer we believe in voices raised in unison in love in hope we believe in goodness we believe in humanity above all we believe in him we need you bring her home hmm we are expecting a press conference from local authorities to take place at 130 p.m. Eastern today and just have note before I bring in my panel um you heard the sheriff starting to sound a bit more dire now in in the way he's talking about this that was my impression to he did a lengthy interview with Ashley Balfield on her podcast yesterday dropped dead serious and he actually used the word dead he didn't say she's dead but he used it in a way that was kind of jarring and gave you a bit of a window perhaps into what his uh worries are what he's thinking maybe even what his opinion is I don't know here's top three we also know we have to be careful I mean we hope that you know it's happened before uh the police is the sheriff is uh we this person's dead and this that and then I see you know some hospital causes says hey I think I've got this lady in my hospital rule so you know we're never gonna give up hope with that's why you guys are so critical to us somebody out there sees something says maybe they'll see her we've got the calls like that hey I think I saw her in fact I pay I think I saw her here and so we'll chase those leads down um that was pretty interesting where he he's basically saying he doesn't want to say anything about her being dead until he knows for sure but to me that sounded an awful lot like somebody who thinks the outcome right now is not good um it's unconfirmed obviously he doesn't know but he's seen it the inside of the house in a way that none of us has and he knows a lot more than he's saying in fact he's been you know clearly somebody and likely him because he's been the spokesperson for the office told NBC about that blood and uh the LA Times and Fox News has it too about the blood droplets uh but then sort of tried to walk it back saying if I were asked that by NBC now I wouldn't confirm it well okay he seems like a very nice guy but his messaging has been a little inconsistent from place to place um it seems clear that there was blood inside the house that it was hers and that it led a trail right outside of the house which is more than likely how they determined this is a crime scene and this was not somebody who walked off of her own volition again we're going to be having a presser in about an hour and a half and we will bring you all the latest news from that as it unfolds joining me now the meantime James Fitzgerald former FBI supervisory special agent and criminal profiler and host of the code red podcast and Las Vegas Metropolitan Police Lieutenant Randy Sutton he's also founder of the wounded blue these are not the meat sticks you grew up with this is paleo valley made with 100 percent grass fed beef from small scale regenerative American family farms paleo valley lets you feel good about what you are eating and who you are supporting in fact paleo valley is one of the few companies that sources 100% of its meat from American farms right here in the US real ingredients real results no preservatives no gluten soy refine sugar dairy or GMOs whether you are road tripping working late hitting the gym or just need a quick pick me 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telling in and of itself they did say that there was blood evidence and that there they were treating it like a crime scene they had the the search and rescue team out there they were doing physical search of the area with with people on foot using their drones using their fixed-way aircraft their helicopters they did mention that they used they were using their forward looking infrared which would have a heat signature should they find someone walking or where someone laying down somewhere in the area and all of that proved negative that would be an indication that this that that misgivery was taken somewhere and is now not around that area because they did a pretty thorough search this is very very troubling remember stranger abductions are very very rare so there's going to be a this is a massive investigation and there's going to be a lot of player. The Daily Mail just as we came to air actually citing Fox News for this reporting that misgivery's pacemaker stopped sinking with her apple watch in the early hours of Sunday morning around 2 a.m. going from Saturday into Sunday what they said was investigators told the outlet that Nancy's apple watch was left inside of her home they write which likely means the device stopped sinking the device is her pacemaker and the apple watch stopped sinking when the pacemaker was out of range from the watch so it doesn't mean she died it means she with her pacemaker was taken too far away from the apple watch for it to sink any longer and that happened around 2 a.m. which would be a very good investigative piece of information Jim. Yeah I've worked a few case even few cases even in retirement of homicide with these apple watches or similar watches if they're found on the victim or certainly through the technology through the cloud whatever they can really help determine not only movement and locations but also time of death I suppose it makes you know forensic pathologist jobs a little bit easier in that way in terms of determining that but they go back to the sheriff and many times in the FBI when we were working these real-time cases we would be as a profiler we would be consulting with the spokesperson for different departments and we would not tell them what to say of course but we would certainly guide them and do certain language uses and especially as a linguist I determined even better along the years how to do this and you don't want to be inflammatory you don't want to be overly accusatory you want to almost make it sound like look maybe you someone made a mistake here one or more people and just you know drop the person off leave them go sometimes as kids as you window Megan or teenagers it's not too often we get 84-year-old people like this the blood is not a good sign either whether it was our arterial bleeding meaning it's much more serious or not so far we just have drops so she's obviously in some level of danger but hopefully the people who are in fact have her in custody taking care of her know this and are keeping her alive and I'll add to your two Megan that there whoever has done this are listening to us I don't mean us personally at this very moment but they are following the media on this if you have even a modicum of sophistication to you when committing these types of crimes you're going to be following the media to find out what they know and get everything possible to help protect yourself and carry out the crime and let's hope that's all they want to do is carry out the crime get some money and and perhaps move on from there and not her partner Randy what what do you make of the fact that yesterday the sheriff started off with a presser in the morning where he offered some detail and then as the day went on seemed to be amping up his his messaging around this using the word kidnapping using the word abducted and obviously I mean I think it was him who leaked the stuff about the blood to the LA Times and and possibly Fox because he's been the main spokesperson I'm just assuming I could be wrong but in any event we saw more and more of him I mean I saw him everywhere he was on CBS he was on ABC was on NBC he was on Fox he was with Ashley Bannedfield he was with some other podcasts like clearly he made the decision to try to get out anywhere and everywhere that asked for him yeah and and the terms that he used did escalate from he was he was catching his terms a little bit more diplomatically during his press conference but as the day went on there were more and more details that leaked out so why why to tell you the truth I don't know why I I can't even begin to guess other than in watching his his press and his interviews he's not he's not a very polished individual when it comes down to communicating what he should be communicating to the public reference this reference this crime I'm hesitant to be too critical of him but I've seen much more professional you know individuals be giving out information when it comes down to a serious issue like this I I mean I would imagine if what they really need is press coverage which clearly they've made a decision they need press coverage it won't be long now before we hear from Savannah because if there's one person involved in this case who can get the media to run a sound bite on every single television station there is and to be quoted in all the newspapers it's Savannah Guthrie but what a terrible position for her to have to be in to you know have to come out in front of the cameras and make a comment right now and she doesn't know what's happened to her mother I my heart goes out to her Jim how do you even begin to to come up with a profile of who would potentially steal an 84 year old woman well we always start with victimology what do we know about our victim this is a low risk victim probably as low as you can get in terms of her everyday activities her behavior and even the environment in which she lives which she travels and of course her physical you know condition which is not the best in terms of a mobility etc so we want to find out everything about her in that regard and of course expanding that it's everyone she knows of course family friends interview all of them go through emails text messaging such as that but then to then really hone in on who who have been guests in her house in the last month plus obviously family and friends will know about those what kind of repairmen what kind of medical people what kind of delivery people salesmen just randomly knocking on doors and and even those people you know maybe plumbers or heater HVAC guys they may not be they may be legitimate and I have nothing to do with this but they have friends and they and those friends talk to friends so that sort of all hacks to be worked out exponentially to find out everyone who's been in her near that house these people didn't wake up that you know at noon on Saturday and say let's go out and kidnap Mrs. Guthrie I'm saying these people even though she's an older woman you'd probably want someone to back you up drive the van the car SUV whatever and then have someone else go in they could have was it forced entry it seems like it was breaking a window or something or a little woman you know a younger woman knocking on the door oh my car broke down and they tricked her into opening the door another part of victimology what kind of a risk a a averse person is she which she opened the door for a stranger these are thing her family and friends can tell so that's what we first want to do to find out everything about her all her goings on for the last month or so emails social media all those type things who she been in contact with and all those people have to be interviewed in friends of those people and to see possibly a linkage to this I want to say these are criminal masterminds who undertook this but they at least got away with this so far and they did some practice some surveillance and we have to look at technology for not just that weekend but going back a week before no doubt they cased her house they surveilled it to make sure they knew what neighbors are doing who's on the streets and and that technology may give some clues to that in to who did this also and just select the audience know the sheriff had told one outlet that she was snatched from her bed in the middle of the night and then he took that back to saying he didn't mean to say that so like I feel for the sheriff you know this is he's been thrust into the national spotlight in a way he didn't anticipate but you do have to give him like a day or two to find out whether he's going to stick with the message that he delivered at the presser or in these interviews but I again he's just trying to get the word out and get attention drawn to this so we don't right now know whether she was snatched from her bed or whether it was the scenario like you just outlined Jim or maybe they rang the doorbell and she came down and they grabbed her I mean what we do know Randy is that they the sheriff said she cannot walk more than 50 yards herself like she's infirm physically but not mentally at all and that would mean that somebody would have to either take her or quote help her get out of the house and get into a car potentially she saw we saw her with a cane on the set of the today show so she clearly used a cane and I'm sure she was slow going and they'd have to have pulled a car right up to that door right I mean like it's 2 a.m. they they would have had to pull the car if they know this woman's on a cane and she can't move well and she's fighting you know she's at the point where she's potentially bleeding don't you think they would have had to have a car right up there in her driveway absolutely and they're in one of in one of the reports and you know as as a dripped and drab information came out there was a mention of forced entry that was one of the things that was said and so I was hopeful that when I heard that and then the droplets of blood I was really hopeful that those droplets of blood might belong to the suspect who might have cut themselves when breaking a window or something like that that that hope has been dashed because they did confirm that that DNA belonged to the victim here so unfortunately what about touch DNA Randy oh wow you know it's like now we've got touch DNA that's what caught Brian Colbergor well for sure and you can bet that and this is one of the beautiful things about the cooperation with the FBI they are unparalleled with their forensic abilities and I'm seeing that they were called into the scene early on that they have tremendous assets at their disposal so they the but it takes time for that DNA evidence to to surface and then and of course you know DNA databases are aren't you know it's not like the fingerprint database where everybody that's been arrested has has DNA out there so it is well and on top of that if it's we have to factor in the possibility that this is somebody from Mexico since it's only you know an hour away from the southern border and would we have you know if it's not an American potentially would we have DNA in the way we do for most Americans linked at least you know maybe 10 times removed but most of us are in there now thanks to some distant relative who's gone to these DNA data databases and given their blood we just we don't know but Jim that's an interesting question about DNA and the FBI's help and also we know it's been reported that the FBI's using its cell phone towers it's triangulation you know how you can check the towers to see what phones were in the area at a certain time so now the 2 a.m. info is very helpful and unlike the three of us the FBI almost certainly has Nancy's actual phone and they can see what time she put it down they can tell what time you went to bed they can tell us certainly what time you stop texting people what time you went offline on it so if they can probably put the time to within maybe even you know a couple minutes of when she got taken and then they use those cell phone towers to see which phones may have been in the area I mean that ultimately that's how they caught the DC pipe bomber or so they tell us what do you make of those potential leads oh sure all that is very important and I assure you as Randy was saying there's a task force already assembled in the Tucson area of multiple agencies I know border patrols involved certainly FBI Tucson police sheriff's department and no doubt the state police and they're all working together on this and I I know I don't know for a fact but I can I can tell you that people from Quantico the FBI laboratory are there in position now and they're running through all these aspects you just described don't forget all the surveillance cameras up and down the streets of Tucson a tag recognition software facial recognition software and again not just that night they're going to have to you know grab it of course for that night everything they can for those few hours before and after you know 2 a.m. but they want to go back before that too the fact that it might have been done at 2 a.m. be helpful because there's going to be less traffic fewer license plates to read and try to identify on the highway right away you know what I mean like is that is that a good thing that that it's been limited to a low traffic hour well sure and I mean the benefit to the bad guys is that it's dark under the cover of darkness all that they can get away with it the bad news from a forensic and technology perspective is there's going to be fewer people out there to in fact you know carlate or collate the different tags that are running back and forth and going you know in whatever direction and this will be expanded by 50 miles to 100 miles in concentric circles which would take us right to that mexican border and by the way these kidnappings as Randy said earlier they don't happen in the u.s. they're very very rare they do happen a lot in Mexico Latin America and South America they know Mrs. Guthrie's the daughter of a very I'm sorry the mother of a very you know wealthy woman newscaster and and they're know this is a prime target and and I'm just wondering if there's been a ransom demand already but that's not being released and we you know some criticism perhaps justified of the sheriff but maybe they're sitting on something that we I'm sure they're sitting on a lot we don't know is it possible there's a ransom demand if there's no ransom demand then what's the purpose of this some kind of a revenge or something and I six weeks ago we had the Brown University shooting and the MIT shooting that goes back 25 years and a whole continent apart so if there's no money demand then what's the what's the motivation behind this and I'm sure that's what the police and law enforcement are struggling with right now motivation will be nice to know for money or for revenge. The sheriff said no he said no to ransom and he said no in a way that I believed he was like that's just we haven't heard anything about that yet no no ransom demand. Unless they insisted he doesn't say that publicly that's right he could be could be misleading for everyone's protection but what for whatever it's worth on the record he denied that there had been a ransom demand but you tell me Randy I there's just no way in my lay person's view they didn't take her because she's related to Savannah Guthrie I mean what are the odds that this is just some keeper where they've kidnapped an 84 year old woman who just so happens to be the mother of one of the biggest new stars in America like that that does not track to me. Well in law enforcement we don't believe in coincidences and I don't believe in that coincidence either you're absolutely right you're a very high profile you know her daughter is very very high profile and and you know Jim was talking about victimology highly critically important in in this type of investigation but the victimology is going to have to now expand to include the daughter because they're going to be looking into any threats any any type of past occurrences that might lead to some type of grudge you know you know there's there's people out there in the world and you and I both know that they they aren't playing with a full deck and and and there are there are people that that you know concentrate on on a on an individual and they become you know so it incredibly attuned to them that they they view themselves as being related to them or a love interest or anything like that so all of this has to be looked at you can't you can't discount anything here and that's what makes this such a a a very very difficult investigation and it's it's going to require all of the resources at play here and I and I just as the time ticks by here Megan I'm really concerned as time ticks by the chances of survival are diminishing uh literally by the hour I I'm just trying to figure out you know why why would you do this you know Jim I'm I'm thinking and we talked to Matt Murphy of longtime federal prosecutor yesterday and he was saying you know forgive me but don't rule out a possible sex crime because he's prosecuted cases where 79 year old women were raped and and attacked and and so sadly that made some sense but one would think that if that were to happen she would have been left there or if she'd been killed afterward that she'd be left there I don't know um it's strange that they took her like they they clearly took her and I suppose you could make the case that if they killed her in the house forgive me for this kind of speculation but we're all wondering what happened that that also could explain the pacemaker no longer could communicating with the Apple watch at 2 a.m. You know that's the other possibility of why the the sinking stopped. Well this was a high risk crime to go to the door grab the woman and do anything with her it it increases 100 fold by putting her in a car and driving away with her so much can go wrong after that you cross the line or one of your tail lights is out of police officer could stop you and you have all kinds of issues now whether she's in the trunk she has duct tape around her you know I'm just speculating here also we don't know um but the the the reason to be fine I agree with Randy this is not coincidence they knew she was the daughter of this uh this prominent newsperson in the US worth worth some money I'm sorry the mother uh and her daughter was of course the newscaster and and and and and if money is not a factor then it has to go back to some personal issue and there has been research done over the years of course there are some men out there who get kicks out of sex with much older women and the research was the older the woman uh the younger the offender so we have heard 84 what does that say about this case but there may be so much more involved here we're not gonna lock into someone in their teens or early 20s necessarily because of that research but uh nothing can be ruled out at this point uh I would urge if the person is listening to us out there you make it look like this is so random and meaningless you must have a meaning you must have a purpose for doing this let the authorities know put something out there somehow and uh and hopefully give us a proof of life that this woman is alive she doesn't deserve to be killed she didn't do anything to you I can assure do you know Jim is they brought dogs in all sorts of dogs and I'm I'm just assuming they brought both rescue dogs you know blood hounds and also cadaver dogs but would a cadaver dog get a hit if a person had only been dead in the house for a half an hour I think and and and and Randy could have to discuss this too but cadaver dogs are so well-trained uh and and they have such an expertise I mean and there's some dogs even better than others that I think they could pick up the scent whether recently dead dead in the house or or or you know down the line somewhere but I I believe a dog a cadaver dog well-trained with a proper you know uh master if you will or or trainer uh they would find the remains if they're somewhere in the area maybe it's a good sign so far because he's ready the the the one thing from that sheriff is he he's not talking like she was killed in the house she's he he clearly doesn't know whether she's alive or dead right now but he's not talking like he thinks she was killed in the house he did bring in homicide detectives right away but like there's an urgency to him and him covering the field with the press yesterday afternoon suggests he thinks there's still time to save her yeah and if that is uh that's all correlation to what they found at the crime scene I remember very early on they did they did uh couch this as a crime scene and they talked about droplets of blood you know later on um when when a body when a killing take place a murder takes place it is it is uh it is very messy okay you know uh whether it's from blunt uh you know trauma for you know hitting someone with an object if it's a stabbing if it's a shooting it is um it leaves it leaves a lot of evidence around and so when he talks about that it was a crime scene and that they found evidence and especially the droplets that indicates to me that um that there was not a major crime scene found here that there was not a pool of blood or if you will or or tissue or things like that and that would be that would I mean if you look at all the different ways that that um that a body can lose you know it's life it's from it's it's from blunt uh trauma it's from gunshots it's from stabbing it's from strangulation but um but generally it's going to leave it's going to leave a lot of forensic evidence behind and there's been no indication that there was a major scene found here uh I think I think that probably would have been something that would have been uh they would have been told and then they would have changed the way this sheriff sounds when he's when he's talking you know Jim the um there's a possibility that they did kidnap and alive Nancy Guthrie and that she did pass after the kidnapping I mean good god I think about my own mom who's the same age and I don't know if my mom could handle that you know like I don't know if her heart can handle that that sort of trauma and poor Nancy Guthrie had the pacemaker was on some sort of medication that they said she needs every 24 hours or it could be fatal and I guess that's a possibility that could explain why we haven't had a ransom. Well a few things here Megan and good points uh the minimal blood and it's it's too much of course for anyone but the minimal blood of the scene could have been used a a a form of uh control early on slap across the face punched in the nose and that's where that blood came from just to get her to cooperate or get her limp and bring her out to the car and I hate to be this graphic but let me go back uh in time too when I was an FBI agent in New York City right across the river was the exon executive uh who was kidnapped uh from right outside of his door that was 1992 his name was Sydney Riso and uh high ranking exon executive and it turns out he was put in a box taken away back of a van then eventually put in a box put in the pine barrens he died but the husband and wife team still carried through on the attempt to get the ransom and eventually within a few days do a week they were identified and arrested and they took uh they took FBI agents to the body so I and I don't want to make this predictive or is something that we know it's going to happen in this particular case but with older people uh the stress and the strain of a forced kidnapping I mean think about it your mother yourself I mean how would you handle this uh you know even above 50 years of age uh it could be very very traumatic and and if you already have pre-existing medical conditions pacemaker as she does you're not getting the meds then only exacerbates all the problems that can go wrong um but there have been my point is here there have been kidnapped victims who have died and the kidnappers said well you know we did what we did uh we still want to get the money of course I'm hoping they would the family would ask for proof of life the old days they would hold a newspaper up with the current headline to so that they're alive uh nowadays with technology you can do it different ways but there's also AI which can make them look like they're alive and they're not so uh that part gets kind of iffy so I'm just hoping I'm going to be positive here that she's alive and the kidnappers just finding a way to either release her get the money for her then release her and go from there but does it since we're all on the same page that none of us hear things that this was coincidental that you know it just so happened they they targeted an 84 year old who was Savannah Guthrie's mom um it does make it so it back to your theory it's so it's either for money potentially or to punish her for a report potentially this is a raw speculation with no support but possibly there was some report she did I'm sure the FBI is coming through all of her recent reporting for you know the today show any in-depth interview she did when I would imagine they're looking at all of that but I also wonder like you tell me wouldn't somebody that high profile be a huge risk for kidnappers even south of the border kidnappers where it's more frequent like you got to know if you go for a woman like that it's going to be on every television station in the country and the heat is going to be really really high which I feel like would be a deterrent like maybe that's an argument against them knowing who this was either if you guys have thoughts on that yeah I agree with you um when you look at at the uh high profile nature of this uh you know I would venture to guess that uh most of America is now aware of this situation and they're not operating in a vacuum right they they have a landlord whoever took this to ever took this one they don't live in a vacuum they they have a life they have uh relatives they have friends uh they have uh business associates they they have uh they have an area that they need to cover um so it's really it's really um worrisome that that they have taken this this uh uh action mega if I may add what do you think Jim Willie Sutton used to say it was asked why do you rob banks well that's where the money is uh so why would someone kidnap a high profile person or their air or or whatever and that's because that's the best chance of getting money look uh patty herf that was a political kidnapping in the early 70s but they knew the herf's family had tons of money uh frank sanatio junior was kidnapped the early 60s that was a high profile person there was an heir to the coars uh brewery uh uh company i believe late 50s early 60s kidnapped he was eventually found dead uh so and this happens across you know europe and and southe america all the time a lot of soccer players or football players in other countries they come from you know Ecuador, Brazil, wherever and the kidnappings occur there even though they're making their money elsewhere so uh it's it's high risk you're right about that Megan but it's also high reward because as Willie Sutton said that's where the money is so they think it's worth a shot here we don't know this is a kidnapping for profit yet they're very very rare in the u.s but 65 miles from the mexican border it certainly can't be ruled out but where's that ransom note or ransom demand that's for waiting to hear about and like cartels you know we've been ramping up our efforts against them you know it's not a it's not Mexico it's america it's it's too son Arizona but it's very close and you know you've got a factor in what's happening down there speaking of possible politics of the white house just put out a post on x about it that reads as follows the search for savannah gothri's mother nancy gothri is ongoing and authorities are requesting assistance from the public anyone with information is urged to contact 911 our prayers are with the gothri family as we hope for nancy safe return home and they posted the picture of her if you have information call 911 pointing out this is what she looks like she's five foot five she weighs 150 pounds blue eyes brown hair last seen january 31st and then this just also in hold on um Brian Enten who works for news nation just posted a video from nancy's home he's saying the first thing he noticed coming out there is how incredibly remote the area is that everyone lives on an acre or more there are no street lights he was out there less last night it was very dark and we were also told that this is in a neighborhood with like mostly elderly people reportedly randy that you know it's one of those sleepy retirement communities from the sound of it this particular area where she lived but with the house that's a million dollars that's got acreage around it we've seen the aerials it clearly had some grounds you're going to have to have grounds keepers you're going to have to have most likely a maid or a maid service that comes in you're probably going to have somebody who comes in and helps you with your meals you know I mean if Savannah was taking care of her mom in any way close to the way I take care of mom my mom I'm sure she had all of those things you know because she's both of our moms were widowed at very young ages and didn't have a husband to do any of that and even an 84 year old husband is not totally capable of doing all that so would you imagine that's where they're going to start not to blame the staff but look the odds are come that's close to Mexico you're going to have a fair amount of people who are volunteering for those roles and I don't know I feel like a fire cop that's where I'd start there's absolutely no doubt that that is paramount in the investigator process here and I spoke to a law enforcement officer yesterday who has jurisdiction down there just tell me about this about the area and yeah exceedingly dark there's not street light anywhere near these it's a hilly area if you're if you're even going out for a walk then you're going to be you're going to be straining so yeah the surrounding area is would be inhospitable for any length of walking that's why when Jim talked about a vehicle being utilized at the outset there's absolutely no doubt that that was that that was a mode of transportation and that is that will play a key role here but you you did hone in on something critically important and that is the the people who work there who be most familiar with the property who would be most familiar with the actions and the scheduling of of the victim here so yeah they will not only look at them but they will look at everyone that they know because remember the the nothing happens in a vacuum there's there's there's you know conversations that take place between friends and relatives so you can bet that the landscapers that the maid whoever was working over there and just like Jim said earlier it was it was a plumber earlier in the week every one of these people has to be vetted and they're going to they're going to have to undergo some serious questioning I mean I was thinking about it because like again if her mom's anything like my mom she was shouting from the rooftops about her well-known daughter I mean I was kid my mom when I go home to visit her we'll go out to eat and she'll say stand up so people can see who you are she loves it it's like you know it's vicarious you know and affection and enjoys telling people that but it can be potentially dangerous and I'm sure that Nancy Guthrie had pictures of Savannah all over her home so she wouldn't even have to shout it from the rooftops for somebody who had been in there as a service personnel as you know a temporary worker what have you and that's another form of exposure um I don't I don't know I just feel like what kind of a plan is that I I listened to Ashley Bannfield talk to the sheriff yesterday she asked a lot of good question Jim she asked were there any footprints that were recovered like outside you know if there were gravel or some sort of sand nothing that he said the driveway was not that kind of driveway and so he clearly does think they use the driveway um nothing no foot print blood nothing like that she asked about the cameras he said he actually I think he said there were not cameras inside but there were outside and then there was a report today that they had he when you talk to Ashley he said I'm I'm hoping that we can find the data on the cloud but if not then from the manufacturer like the service provider and then today it hit that there is no cloud database for these cameras so now they're dependent on whoever maintains the cameras and I suppose we also have to wonder whether the cameras were on and operational and not just for show or the contract lapsed you know there's also just because there's a camera doesn't mean it was on but how long would that take right it's like what's the point of having the security camera if they can't get back to you with what happened in your driveway at 2 a.m. on Saturday morning you know if they can't do that within a day or two if you got to wait a month forget it yeah I mean lesson learned here for a 99 dollar investment and 99 dollars a year subscription get get a security system whether you're wealthy or your your daughter's wealthy and famous or not you know that's an idea for everyone out there and look it's very likely again I'm not going to paint whoever took Mrs. Guthrie as a criminal mastermind one or more people but they probably had enough common sense to know whether in advance whether there was a camera system or not because I'll be a dead giveaway they know the police the first thing they would look at as the ring camera blink camera whatever it is and try to get information off of that so they even knew how to disable that where they knew in advance it wasn't operational or perhaps they in advance they they they they they disabled the system there so because so far we're we're not going to any breaks there I think it's going to come down to other cameras you know from other neighbors houses even down the street there had to be an ingress and egress to that property east west north south whatever direction it is with it they came back the same way they went of course we don't know but every single camera system along that way has to be looked at and and Megan you said very early on in our talk today that you know at 2am I don't know what time the bars close in that area but I mean you will think the roads are a lot less crowded at 2am on a Sunday morning then certainly 2pm on a on a Saturday afternoon so that to be an advantage also so it may be technology it may be DNA we didn't talk about fingerprints they probably work loves to the scene which would have prohibited those being left behind but other efferencing evidence of old school kind forensic kind as well as technology are hopefully going to put this together and they're going to take every path they can from that house in any direction and look at cameras in that regard and see who they can find that may somehow become the suspect players that just those licensed plate readers that's like only on the highways I mean that's are they not you tell me I mean how are they going to be helpful well police cars have them too and and they can pick up tag and they can look at them retrieve them and archive them for days weeks afterwards depending on the department so there are always yeah it's going to be a herculean task and I tell you whether because she's a famous the mother of a famous person or not that can be a whole different discussion but there is going to be a large task force here we were or at least at dozens of people now maybe approaching a hundred bringing people in from all over the country certainly on the federal level to help out on this case and they're going to be just like with the Boston bomber back in 2012 I think it was you know all the video they were going through then they eventually found the two brothers and and these thing and and with the Idaho killer they made a car stop on him somewhere in the Midwest when he was driving back with his father that was a plate recognition software that got him at least pulled over then so that will be put to use it's being put to use right now 24 seven and hopefully they're going to get a break in that regard someone is where they should be that this is cell phone throw in cell phone information and the towers and that's going to help I mean I'll guarantee you the NSA knew almost immediately who's in that area at 2 a.m. like the NSA has got those records time after time we're told in a way that's very helpful and but this is not helpful guys this just crossing my desk from the Daily Mail quote a doorbell camera Nancy owned was removed by the time investigators arrived on Sunday now that's very odd wording I don't know whether that means they think the bad guys took out the camera right like I mean that would certainly track with what they're saying Randy evidence of foul play including they've said like around the door like around they think there was a breaking and entering you know it's so like it's possible now I mean if if this person actually knew enough to go like take out the ring camera or the nest camera before they went in there that's I don't know is that sophisticated or isn't it does every what do you think every crook would know how to do that well with the advent of these security cameras you know for years now they're they're so commonplace it is not unusual set of circumstances for a crook to know about how to disable those cameras it really is not difficult so but but it does show the nefariousness of this that that's interesting that it's coming out now that that ring camera was removed not just disabled it was removed and the question that of course I have is is that because the sheriff mentioned something about search warrant yesterday when he when he when he was referring to the security footage you know I'm not familiar enough with with the ring camera to know whether that that information was you know centralized somewhere within the ring system I know that you know to access it from from your device we are you know generally speaking it's your phone you know that you can go back and you can see but what took place so that's but that's a critical component now that that's been released that it just brings more and more attention to the fact that this was a planned abduction and this this was not this was not a crime of passion this was something that was planned that was you know that was and I agree with Jim too I don't think it's one person and but here's where where that that plays role you know we all know that if you want to keep a secret you got to kill the other person right so the fact that we believe that there is more than one person involved could lead to a you know an ability to solve this through through some information that might surface from from that yeah yeah exactly or makes a mistake this just in on what to expect at 130 per spokesperson at the presser leader this morning sheriff Nano is expected to talk about some of the evidence recovered at the Guthrie home to clarify what steps are being taken in the investigation and to address information regarding a potential vehicle of interest let's hope they actually have one guys thank you both so much Jim and Randy all the best really appreciate it you're welcome thanks for having us Mike wow and if you have any information any any whatsoever even if you don't think it's relevant call 911 that's easiest I'll tell you I I called yesterday I thought I had some information that might be relevant probably not but like just don't be the person who keeps it to themselves let the law enforcement officials figure out whether it's relevant coming up we turned to politics with Rich Lowry and Charlie Cook from National Review how are you showing a little extra love this February whether it's for someone special or just for you for many it starts at home with Cozy Earth their bamboo pajama set is a classic Cozy Earth favorite and the sleepwear upgrade you will love slipping into night after night their lightweight yet cozy and unbelievably soft fall asleep faster stay comfortable longer and honestly look forward to putting these things on every night this Valentine's Day season Cozy Earth is offering a buy one get one or bogo pajama deal you won't see any other time of the year and it's totally risk free you see you get a one hundred night sleep trial so you can really try them out plus a 10 year warranty if you don't like them after a hundred nights you send them back and get a refund these viral PJs are so good they sold out during the holidays and now they're back with an exclusive deal only available through February 8th hurry up head to Cozy Earth.com use my code Megan BoGo to get these PJs for you and someone you love and if you get a post purchased survey be sure to tell them that you heard about Cozy Earth right here on the MK show celebrate everyday love with comfort that makes the little moments count. I want to tell you big news tomorrow we will be heading down to Washington DC for an interview with Vice President JD Vance it will be our first sit down with him since 2024 during the campaign there's a lot to discuss and we're very excited to bring that to you tomorrow we're going to try to get it on the air during the 12 to 2 live series XM show but you know how these things go that may or may not be possible but we'll definitely release it on YouTube and via pod tomorrow anyway stay tuned we are going to aim to get it on during our live slot on series XM so that ought to be fun why don't you send me an email if you've got something that you want me to ask the vice president it's Megan at Megan Kelly dot com so much more news to get to before we do that Don lemon went on Jimmy Kimmel last night and played the victim and the ladies of the view are speaking out about this case to giving their brilliant legal analysis as always because of course you ask yourself well but what does on a Navarro think when you look at any complex legal case I know that's that's what rich and Charlie do they're here it's an NR day rich Lowry is here he's editor in chief of national review and Charles CW Cook senior writer for national review and host of the Charles CW Cook podcast find all of their work by becoming an NR plus subscriber highly recommend I am and I subscribe to the all of it the paper magazine and NR plus online profiles and it gets rid of almost all the ads and it's wonderful guys great to see you Charles did you or did you not text rich this morning or the morning of Don lemons arrest and say what does Anna Navarro well I didn't because it's just an assumption between us at this point that we wait for her take and then we both echo it and usually incorporate it into national reviews editorial line it only someday you could actually get her so you didn't have to go yeah no we're all right I don't think Charlie or I know what she said so we we need to come down this issue yeah we need to hear the clip I got you covered rich who who looks after after you better than I do she went on the view and she discussed the grand jury indictment of Don and this was her take in sought 21 B he was at that protest like a week ago right in the church and and then a week later they sent they got a grand jury to indict she indict you accounts this is after they had gone to three different courts trying to get judges to sign all right and the judges in all three previous cases said to the DOJ get the hell out of my courtroom you clowns there is no case here so they basically did it themselves they did it they released the news at the exact same time that they released the Epstein documents so make no mistake about it this was about gaslighting this was about going against Don Lemon and other journalists by the way all who happened to be black happy black history month and it's and I think it's you know to send a chilling message correct to anybody who is covering facts so she's not a big fan of the Minnesota grand jury she doesn't appear to believe in the sanctity of that organization or the indictment handed down that's not how she felt when president trump was indicted when he was a candidate just just for all time's sake let's take a look at 21 C I want to thank this special grand jury because they have been meeting for weeks and weeks they've done this incredibly seriously these are not people with a political agenda these are regular New Yorkers Donald Trump finally vote one a popular vote yesterday the grand jury voted to indict him so there's a bit of an inconsistency there rich but for the record she she doesn't think much of the grand jury and its indictment of Don Lemon and they appear to believe that it's a race thing on the set of the view yeah they seem to think it's just picked up randomly walking down the street and if you're being arrested just for being annoying and being Don Lemon there would have been so many offenses prior to this where they could have gone to a grand jury and got some supposedly bogus indictment he's was indicted because he has committed likely committed a crime and whether he'll ultimately be convicted of this a little skeptical but he was conspiring with these people he knew about it beforehand he was helping conceal it he went into the church he was part of the disruption he was asked by the pastor to leave he didn't leave at least not when requested by the pastor and those are the facts that led to this indictment so I understand saying look I don't I think journalists have a special status or he was a journalist in this instance and it's an ambiguous case and I don't think he should be indicted there's some reasonable people to say that but say he was indicted because he's black man or is it Trump critic no he was indicted for what he did and the first amendments not this the special badge you get to hold up as a member of the press that makes you immune from laws that are applicable to everyone else in the United States that's just not how it works that's so that's exactly right so it's so infuriating to hear these inane discussions Charlie because the three of us know if we said we're members of the press and therefore we can accompany this group storming an abortion clinic we have a microphone and we have a little thing that says press pass and they are storming they're chaining themselves to the door they're blocking women from entering the surgery room and we're part of it like we're not chanting we're not saying don't have an abortion but we're right there we're also looking at the women who are in the clinic and just by being there posing somewhat of an impediment to their exercise of what they want to do but we have a microphone and we say we're I'm a member of the press I'm documenting this historic protest that they're doing inside of it they're so brave they're in here this is what protest is all about to make people feel uncomfortable trauma is part of it you crying lady over there just anybody think that the Joe Biden Department of Justice would have said well Charlie rich and okay your members of the press so we're not going to bother you no I don't think so I think one of the annoying parts of this and I do think it will be close when it goes to trial it's hard to convict people it should be there will be arguments advanced on both sides that might be persuasive to a jury but I think the most annoying thing about this is that the defense of Don Lemon thus far has been to shout the first amendment and as you say not only is it the case that that is not a blanket warrant for anyone who considers himself to be connected to the press to get away with crimes but the first amendment is on both sides of the ledger here the reason the face act at least the second part of it which relates to churches was passed was to deal with circumstances in which the first amendment rights of church goers are being violated and by protesters if you must call them that these people went further than that and the local government does nothing about it in structure this is the sort of post reconstruction or civil rights era law that in other circumstances democrats like and in this case for good reason you don't want a scenario in which people can storm into a religious service and stop it and intimidate the church goers and then the local government because it happens to approve of the cause says ah well we're not going to deal with it the federal government in this case is acting to uphold the civil rights of those church goers so if you're going to look at the first amendment in donleman's case that will be his defense that he was merely there as a journalist you also have to look at it on the other side of the ledger but the people who are making this argument don't care about the other side of the ledger they don't think that that counts and in one case huli on Castro they excised it from the first amendment you see this huli on Castro tweeted out the first amendment and he did dot dot dot where all the religious bits are because he yeah so he said he said when he was asked why he thought donleman was in the right the first amendment and they said Congress will pass no law and then he went dot dot and then he said um respecting and then he just did the bits to do with freedom of speech and the press he missed out the religious part so you can't look at this if you don't look at both sides of it now in a courtroom they will look at both sides of it it is quite complicated um but the notion that donleman is presumptively the victim here I think is absurd yeah I mean the part of the problem is many of the people who have chosen to opine on this case have not actually watched what donleman actually did inside that church what he how he sounded how he behaved I mean I saw a debate between Harvey levin of TMZ and Mark Garagos Harvey was on Don side and Mark was on the prosecutor's side and Harvey was like he had absolutely every right to go in there it's a public place it's public place it's not a church is not a public place it's a private place and you get invited for a specific reason which is to worship here as a Baptist you can't just storm in there and start getting a manicure that would also be trespass you you have a limited invitation to come in for a specific purpose and if you're there for a different purpose you are trespassing but on top of that as everybody who's been in journalism for two minutes knows as soon as they tell you to get out even if you do have the right to be there even if it were a public place if you don't you're in you're in trouble now you're in trouble and he he was told he was explicitly told by the pastor I want you to leave it's on camera and we went back and actually watched exactly what happened after that moment he went on to interview because he kept sticking his mic and people's faces at least two more people he continued his questioning he did not even come close to immediately leaving the church no several more minutes passed with him in the church and then even when he finally did leave that's when he made his infamously stupid comment watching the people run and cry saying trauma's part of it trauma's all part of it which is what the three of us are going to say with the crying abortion seekers trauma sorry you're going to have to feel the trauma I'm just here as a journalist this is what we journalists do we enjoy other people's trauma that we helped cause here's part of what he did inside I played this for almost everybody because it's just so clear what he's doing this is stop 20 our church had gathered for worship which we do every Sunday and we were interrupted by this group of protesters yeah we asked him to leave and they obviously have not left so what do you think of it I mean this is unacceptable it's shameful it's shameful to interrupt a public gathering of Christians in worship but their reports will say I have to take care of my flock but listen we live in there's a constitution the first amendment to freedom of speech and freedom to assemble and protest we're here to worship we're here to worship Jesus because that's the hope of these cities that's the hope of the world is Jesus Christ I'm going to be very respectful please don't push me we're here we're here to worship Jesus that's why we're here that's why we're here that's what we're about what you think Jesus would be understanding it we're about we're about these but we're about spreading the love of Jesus but did you try to talk to them as a person is willing to talk okay I have to take care of my church my family so I asked you actually would also leave this building you don't want us to come here to worship I'm always worship I'm a Christian it's right there I mean explicitly tells him to leave and he starts it off by saying I've asked everyone to leave and he just keeps going and going and going and then the ongoing commentary about how this is what it's all about this is protest and you can you can just protest wherever you want whenever you want that's what the constitution provides rich um yeah right he went to the end of Navarro School of Law yeah use the use the term we at one point we're going to do this operation it wasn't a royal we although given it self-regard you know you might want to account for that possibility is I'm part of this group we and he he cites the First Amendment with the pastor he also showed the scene of these people again worshipping and accord with their First Amendment rights getting disrupted in braid at by this protestor said oh this is what the First Amendment is okay when they're actually violating the First Amendment my other favorite moment of his from inside the church he's talking to one of the parishioners you know about what's going on he says well there's a rumor that one of the pastors might be with ice and the parishioners like well shouldn't you know no right to go in there regardless but why are you going in there on the basis of some idiotic rumor so the whole thing is so moronic and wrong again maybe he gets off but if he gets off it still doesn't really mitigate the offense that this was a terrible thing to do it was a violation of our civil society and other people's rights and he should be ashamed but he I'm sure he's enjoying it because there's more attention and he's getting celebrated by all the people he cares cares about whether it's on a Navarro or Jimmy Kimmel oh yeah I'll so he went on Kimmel last night and this I mean speaking of Don Lemon loving Don Lemon um here's sat 18 when did you realize that this was a very very big story I had no idea I had a little bit of an idea when I got when I asked to use the restroom and you know sort of early in the morning there was CNN on a monitor and on the thing I could see former CNN anchor Don Lemon arrested in Los Angeles and I said and I said to the guy was like uh is that he goes I said is that happening a lot he goes you've been on all morning yeah and he says this is a big deal my attorney said to me I prepared a statement you can rewrite it and edit it but you need to deliver the statement I'm like deliver to who like what are you talking about they said the people who are waiting outside and so I go I my husband and I walk out and I see this like I mean I don't know how many reporters and and paparazzi and and helicopters I had no idea and I um I asked my husband I said what happened with the channel today because I was concerned about that's my livelihood and my channel and my viewers and he said their channel's been going all day I'm sorry he also didn't finish either his livestream with the church or his interview with Kimmel Charlie without reminding people to like and subscribe that clip underscores one of the other problems with the commentary around this which is common in the media which is the belief that the First Amendment treats journalists who have press passes and w2s differently than it does anyone else that it applies to the press that is a protection of the press it's not the First Amendment applies no differently to Walter Krunkight than to some guy with an iPhone but I do think that the way that the Walter Krunkight's of the world obviously he's dad but would expect to be treated is different than the guy with the iPhone and I suspect that if this had been a right wing protest let's put it in a mask just to make it more salient and some guy who had never been a CNN anchor and wouldn't have been covered by CNN and subsequently went in and did every single thing precisely the same as Don Lemon except he wasn't famous and he wasn't on the right I don't think there would be any outcry at all if a democratic administration brought a case under the face act I think part of this claim that Don Lemon and others have made is but I'm famous but that's not how it works now again I think it will be 50-50 I do think there are strong defenses I think that the facts will be difficult to pause out in front of a jury but I just think the idea that there is something intrinsically wrong about this is crazy and the analogy I've been drawing is with the Wisconsin judge who tried to help the illegal immigrant escape if you remember at the time the first line was oh my god the Trump administration's arresting judges as if judges are immune from being held accountable for breaking the law she did it she was then charged and she was convicted by a jury of her peers yeah because she committed a crime there's nothing about a judge that is sacrosan and there's nothing about a journalist that is sacrosan they are subject to the same laws and the same protections as the rest of us it's what harmy dillen said on this show last Friday which was you don't have a magic invisibility cloak just because you declare yourself a journalist while you are participating in a crime and we all know that I mean even just the basic prospect of trespass which is not what he's been charged with because that's a state crime but I mean how many times you know in in our journalist careers have we not been able to enter a certain venue we have to stay on the on the sidewalk if I had a nickel for every time my photographer is like my sticks are on the sidewalk they're on the sidewalk you know like to protect us because we we know we're going to get in trouble if we go any further we can't we obey that there are laws that my point is simply not that he should be charged with trespass though he should but just there are laws that apply to us even though we're journalists and we all know that and when you say that to you know these NBC or is there ABC or is there CNN or so we're trying to defend on lemon they know that's true because that's at least one that they all know they have to abide by like our news organizations will make sure because there's the ones they're the ones who have to pay the bill but somehow when it when it's a law other than trespass when it when it's a law that's on the books to protect a religious organization they stop being able to understand it's like but but what do you mean he he was just there to document the anti-ice protesters important work is really the unsaid piece of it rich yeah so he could have documented it maybe not just as well but he could have documented on on the sidewalk and waited for everyone to come out he could have had them prior to going in and heard all their planning and whatnot and then talked everyone when they came out but he was part of the disruption and I just want to underline what Charlie said Scalia so good on this was so good on this is somebody other things he pointed out freedom of the press we tend to think well it's the press like CNN but at the time of the founding that term kind of institutional press wasn't used they're thinking more of a printing press which anyone could have access to it was been been Franklin a journalist or was he a guy with a printing press so it's meant to protect the freedom of speech of of everyone not just people who will work at CNN now now Don Lemon and now is more like the guy is Charlie Lutertu he's the guy with the iPhone camera rather rather than the guy with CNN he's he's just now delighted he gets covered by by CNN in an instance like like this but again it doesn't it's it's meant for everyone freedom of speech there are all sorts of other First Amendment of freedoms and just because you have that iPhone camera and you're saying or covering it doesn't provide immunity to the law and from the law and doesn't mean you can go violate other people's First Amendment rights which they all knew when the J6 reporters got charged by Joe Biden and tried to raise the defense that they were First Amendment press and were just they are covering it which the DOJ did not tolerate or believe and through the book at those that handful of journalists that was trying to cover January saying you crossed the line you you that it is not a shield in the way that you are trying to use it the First Amendment just for the record again it's not exactly required as proof to get Don Lemon but for the record for the Harvey Levin's of the world after the pastor explicitly told him to get out which we all heard he said in the beginning I've asked everyone to leave and he said at the end and I want you to leave uh he spoke to two more parishioners he continued to describe the scene he told viewers to like and subscribe I can't you guys he talked about the music being very loud and the pastor not offering a prayer to calm things down which he didn't appreciate that he didn't calm things down the way Don Lemon wanted in response to the upset Don Helper Cause he talked about a young man being in the corner looking upset he finally leaves about seven minutes later the whole thing was only about 15 minutes if that um because he wanted to see what was happening outside his parishioners left he never said he was leaving because the pastor asked just a human mind really did not care who among us would not leave a church if we're asked by a priest or pastor to leave right I mean legal questions aside put a first men aside who would stay after a pastor in good faith asked you to go it's it's it's reprimandable rich was he waiting for an exorcism who would then go he could use it but who would then go on the angry ladies podcast within 24 hours and say those are all white supremacists in there he tried to justify it by by then completely disparaging everyone in that church the children no no one had done anything no as far as he knew they had there was absolutely no support for ice there may or may not have been one pastor who had an affiliation Charlie that was like doubling down on stupid but you know I think that is a calumny and and I think it is outrageous that he said it so please don't get me wrong but let's just assume for the sake of argument that it had been a white supremacist church the first amendment protects that you don't get to do bad things and then go on television and say but the victims were mean the victims are still the victims that's the whole point of having a constitution that is small or liberal and neutral and covers everyone it doesn't matter whether those people are the best people who have ever lived in the history of the world or the worst they're still protected under the face act and you point out that it's it should have been a trespassing case and root but the point is as you know the reason the face act has been invoked here is because the state didn't bring trespassing charges that is exactly why the face act exists it's a civil rights law the only point at which the federal government gets to pass laws and enforce laws that protect civil rights is when the local laws are not enforced that was true in the 1960s in the south and it's true in Minnesota in 2026 and that's why I say it doesn't matter because the left often thinks that unless the victims of a crime are African Americans in the 60s then civil rights don't apply but that's not true this is a misconception that is actually corrupted a lot of our civil rights laws so civil rights don't apply to Asians who are being discriminated against in education civil rights don't apply to Christians who as rights are being abused by progressives but that isn't true you don't have to or to whites who get fired there's gank you do not have to raise an affirmative defense in a civil rights case to say that you're one of the good guys you're covered if you're an American citizen whose rights have been violated so it's especially annoying that he went and did that because what he wants the audience to hear is oh they're bad guys then well they're not and that's a horrible slander but even if they were or the audience doesn't like them or Anna Navarro thinks that they're undesirable who cares the federal government still should not hold the the law and their defense i'll tell you what the other thing that needs to happen here is a civil lawsuit must be filed in particular against Don Lemon if I were any one of those parishioners most especially a mother of a child who was terrified or the woman who either broke her arm they alleged it was broken in the indictment but clearly hurt which is what Pam Bondi said later I'd be suing because it helps an intentional inflection of emotional distress claim can be brought but they're much stronger if you can tie it to some actual injury you know like like a like a physical injury and certainly i witnesses seeing somebody hurt her arm or i witness is seeing strong evidence of emotional distress like a child crying in his mother's arms would be very helpful to this claim and Don Lemon has plenty of money from his multiple lawsuits he continues to file against anybody who tries to fire him and they should they should make him pay they should make it at a minimum he should be made to pay for the trauma he helped cause those children he's bragging about how he's the most famous he's the biggest name you know what that gets you you get listed as the first defendant in the lawsuit against everyone who went in there so we'll watch as that unfolds all right let's keep going speaking of crazy things in courtrooms this judge this judge who late yesterday tried to stop the Trump administration and for now has stopped the Trump administration from removing temporary protected status from Haitians so Joe Biden let some nearly 400,000 Haitians into the country and with my magic wand I declare you temporary protected status which means you're not an illegal you can't be kicked out because you've got my magic you know designation and Trump came in and said I'm lifting that that we're not we're not going to wait that out I'm lifting that right now and this judge has said and this is the same judge who said that Trump wasn't allowed to say transgender people can't serve in the military and she was reversed for a hysterical opinion she issued there and now she's at it again saying Trump as the sitting commander in chief does not have the power to remove with his pen what Joe Biden granted with his and on and on you can hear the woman's ideology Angela Anna Reyes is her name federal just according to Washington where she says there's a there's a hostility to non-white immigrants that Kristi Nome has shown she goes on to say the government has not cited any reason to end temporary protected status for Haitians abruptly and its approach is not in the public interest she's decided quote the government does not cite any reason termination must occur opposed haste secretary Nome complains of strains that unlawful immigrants place on our immigration enforcement system her answer turned 300,000 352,959 lawful immigrants into unlawful ones overnight she complains of strains to our economy her answer turn employed lawful immigrants who contribute billions in taxes into the legally unemployable she complains of strains to our health care system her answer turn the insured into the uninsured this approaches many things in the public interest is not one of them what who died and elected her president she's the new d.h.s secretary I guess so we saw this in the first term as well where some judges apparently consider unilateral executive action a one-way ratchet so bomb could do things unilaterally and then would Trump just wanted to reverse it just to know no you can't do that that would be crazy and this is a version of that made even worse by the fact that this is temporary protected status with emphasis on temporary which means eventually it's supposed to go away and be reversed look I don't think it's great it's a bad situation for these Haitians you had an administration letting them in with the assumption that he gets to stay forever that's the way temporary protected status is very often worked but under the law Trump obviously can revoke it and this just goes to the the broader aspect of this whole immigration debate over the last year where the left and democrats and Biden they created facts on the ground by letting a bunch of people in either legally kind of laundering people otherwise wouldn't get in through these various means the CPP app or this TPS status for Haitians and others and or just just let them flood in and get the monose to appear that's going to be ignored and then when Trump comes in it says okay I'm going to revoke the temporary status I'm going to you know and CPP I'm going to go after and deport these people that no you can't do that this is the status quo and a big problem are Hollywood celebrities folks in Minneapolis they now take it as a given that the status quo of ignoring the law the black and white letter of the law was a status quo such as that it's an intolerable act of aggression if someone actually dares to do what the law says should be done you detain the illegal immigrants until their proceedings reach a final conclusion and if they can stay fine if they go you deport them that's what it says in the law and Trump's offense here is just trying to actually apply the law for a change I mean now we have a pair of rulings over the past 72 hours this one we discussed yesterday a bit with Jonathan Terley the one from the judge in Texas who who decided that the the little boy and his dad who were arrested by Border Patrol in Minneapolis and shipped down getting ready for removal back to their native country that he had to be released they both had to be released and finished his opinion with a picture of the little boy in the in the dog hat with the wrong date said it was dated February 31st was lecturing and sanctimonious throughout the opinion I mean speaking of Scalia Charlie he would be horrified at the attempts to legislate from the bench we are seeing these days yeah that's second opinion you mentioned was honestly one of the most unhinged things I've ever read from a judge to the point at which I initially thought it had been faked the February 31st made me wonder if it was a joke that was not law and he's not a judge the annoying part of this I think is that these decisions are given the impromarter of law and so those who favor them can say look the Trump administration once again has been struck down by a judge but what is conspicuously missing from the first case we were discussing the judge Reyes case with temporary protected status is any specific references to the statute now I am as you know a big critic of the way that Congress has over the years delegated powers to the president there are far too many laws in my view that say in the judgment of the president or in the estimation of the secretary all that just hand sweeping powers that were reserved to Congress to the president but Congress has done that and it's done that a lot in the area of immigration and one of the things that it has allowed the president to do for example is determine if there are any countries from which immigrants might pose a threat you can shut those down another thing that Congress has allowed the president to do is determine whether or not people deserve temporary protected status and when that temporary protected status stops the laws here aren't particularly complicated they don't say the president has to file a report that meets 17 different criteria they say in the public interest they say in the judgment of the president and the Supreme Court has historically treated this area is non just disabled that is to say that the Supreme Court does not decide whether or not the president's judgment was correct only whether or not he got to make it this isn't like the tariffs area where it is much more cabin so Joe Biden was allowed to determine that Haiti and Haitians qualified for temporary protected status and Joe Biden did and Donald Trump is allowed to say that they no longer do if I think it will be silly but if Donald Trump tomorrow said Britain is such a mess that the British are entitled to temporary protected status no judge could say that that was wrong and no judge could say that a subsequent president who made the opposite determination was wrong either we've already had a Supreme Court case that is almost identical to this one we know what the Supreme Court this Supreme Court thinks about this matter it has come up before it will come up again this will be appealed all the way up to the Supreme Court and the Supreme Court is going to say I think what I just said which is this is an unjustifiable question the same power that allowed Biden to let them in allows Donald Trump to send them home it doesn't really matter whether people like that I think is fair or mean or great or bad she mentioned insurance employment economic contributions those things are not in the law if they were she'd have a point but they're not so he gets to do this in the way Biden got to do it and the judges do not get to second guess him unless there is a law that says to the contrary this is the second time now that she's tried to overturn a decision by Trump or his secretary thanks to quote animus the trans opinion she issued was all about his alleged animus and pete access alleged animus towards trans people this one's all about the alleged animus of christie gnome to people from third world countries and they quote her saying stuff similar to what trump has said like I don't think she used the term shit hole countries but she came close like we just don't want these people here anymore they leech off of us and they're out and she's using that to say this is a racial animus that's motivating this meanwhile good luck with that if they actually do look at I mean Trump very clearly wants to stop these immigrants from everywhere I mean he's liquidated this other border he doesn't want anybody here on on temporary protected status I don't know if there's another example of a group of white immigrants from like denmark who he's allowing they probably got shipped off to greenland by trump anyway and a dog slut so this is this woman's a problem she's an activist and she's using her own priors to try to sweep christie gnome and pete hexeth and Donald trump all under this you know you're full of hatred banner and I like she's going to have to get her hands slapped again by the supreme court you're right trisha mcglockland who's the dhs spokeswarsum tweeted out supreme court here we come this is lawless activism that we will be vindicated on and went on from there all right stand by guys we're going to take a quick break and we will be back and I have a special special treat for you guys on billy eyelash we did a story on her yesterday and there's been quite a development and you are just the perfect guys to discuss it with next one of the biggest problems in american health care right now is access usually can't get medication until you're already sick health care should not only work when it is convenient for the system 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for 10% off hey everyone it's me magan kelly i've got some exciting news i now have my very own channel on serious x-m it's called the magan kelly channel and it is where you will hear the truth unfiltered with no agenda and no apologies along with the magan kelly show you're going to hear from people like mark how pran like Lauren moron cahillian and leashinsky jesse kelly real clear politics and many more it's bold no bs news only on the magan kelly channel serious x-m 111 and on a serious x-m half just f-y-i that presser on the missing mom of savanna gothry has not yet started we are monitoring if it starts and breaks news we will bring that to you back with me now our national reviews rich lorry and charlie cook so yesterday we discussed some of the antics at the absurd Grammys on sunday night and one of the people we discussed was singer billy ilish for saying the following watch no one is illegal on stolen land and i love that and yeah it's just really hard to know what to say and what to do right now and i just i feel really hopeful in this room and i feel like we just need to keep fighting and speaking up and protesting and our our voices really do matter and the people matter and um i say sorry in that blacked out part she said f-ice um her voice does matter guys it matters a lot it matters to the tongue of a tribe uh which is actually technically under her logic the owner of the land on which her fourteen million dollar house sits it's worth much more than that was bought for that a few years ago and here is what has happened since sunday night her lavish mansion located on land that belongs to the tongue of a tribe the indigenous people of the greater loss angeles basin they're upset about this land it's theirs ancestral ancestral land they have issued the following statement we appreciate the opportunity to provide clarity regarding the recent comments made by billy ilish as the first people of the greater loss angeles basin we do understand that her home is situated in our ancestral land they said adding she has not reached out to the tribe herself ilish has not contacted our tribe directly regarding her property we do value the instance when public figures provide visibility to the true history of this country additionally the tribe said they've contacted ilish's team quote to express our appreciation for her comments it is our hope that in future discussions the tribe can be explicitly referenced to ensure the public understands that the greater la basin remains gabri alleno tongva territory and so the real question here is when is she going to return her mansion to the tongva rich i mean three two one no time like the present yeah there's no such thing as an illegal on stolen land i'm sure it'd be a great community center for for the tribe and she she can go someplace else that that she thinks was rightfully secured now so many levels absurdity to this one stealing land is what human beings did almost throughout the entirety of our history very much including native americans right and this is in some ways it speaks well of us as a western society that you have people thinking this in these terms we stole it that that was bad because no one no command she was thinking oh we really shouldn't have done that to the patchies when we pushed them out no uracool after they bought a bunch of rifles from the dutch and the anguish were thinking no we shouldn't do this to the maheekens right they just took the land so if you kind of peel the onion every tribe that you know Ben and Jerry say the Lakota is either black hills back or whatever it is they stole it from someone else they moved in there and displaced other people so this is how it works and then it was through american leadership that you get a post-World War II situation where we take national sovereignty seriously we take borders seriously and this just goes to how radical some of this the the contention are on him immigration it's not just that borders don't have any legitimacy in terms of excluding people we have no right to be here ourselves it's it's a it's a criticism of the united states of america at its foundations Charlie billy eyelash will never give back her mansion to the tong va nor will any of these hollywood celebrities who try to lecture us or make us do a land acknowledgement before we can hear them perform ever do such a gesture as stupid as her comments were and they were made all the more so by the fact that for some reason she seemed to be wearing the academic gown of the sort you would expect the commencement speaker to wear but the thing that I made you can identify it as anything I thought it looked like a domino it was odd wasn't it but she clearly had just heard that sentence somewhere I'll stand on a fortune cookie or something and decided to say it but I thought the more disturbing part was when the camera panned to the audience the expressions on their faces were so vacant there was this sort of yes look in their eyes that honestly kind of worried me it was weird and I think as a result we were perhaps not to take them too seriously because they're not going to do anything about it as rich says though the core idea there is if taken to its logical conclusion exclusive of the sovereignty and authority of the united states government and all of the 50 states as well so while billy eyelash might not worry me those sentiments when expressed from within the institutional left as they often are and within academia do because if there is no such thing as an illegal person then there's no such thing as a citizen and if there's no such thing as a citizen then there's no such thing as a government because we live in a representative government and a constitutional republic so she hasn't thought it through it's very silly but it is actually quite destructive of everything else that we believe in and then if you look at the behavior in minnesota you can sort of see how one leads to the other because if oh yeah right because if there is no such thing as an illegal person well then all immigration laws are illegitimate and there's nothing wrong with nullifying federal law and then you kind of get rid of everything we've built up yes okay now speaking of someone who hasn't thought it through a couple years ago this guy was in the news for getting married and Taylor Swift went to his wedding he's written a bunch of songs for her apparently he's a prolific songwriter and he's very well known in the music industry and his name is jack it and to know and he was there at the Grammys and he did have on one of those little ice out pins and unfortunately for jack he got asked about it and here's how that went watch can you talk to me a little bit about the pin that you're wearing tonight I mean why is that important this is terrible you know I mean it's time to if for every reason you could imagine I would think but yeah a bit speech will start and even talk about it yeah absolutely it's like hard to talk about anything else at this point but we can do both then and find a way to I don't know it's just a really good time for people to come together and figure out how to move through this because it's only going to be small communities that can really help rich he has no idea why he's saying that greenland related protest maybe the ice and greenland this is why this is why I've written about this this is why so many of those people when they complain use the phrase you know with with everything that's going on because they don't know what's going on so they've just heard there's something bad and they say it's very hard to talk about anything else with everything that's going on and then you ask what's going on and they say you know everything and then the moronic reporter as opposed to realizing oh my god this is actually a great moment I could actually really expose him she's like oh you know like who who does have the words you know no and of course for the listening audience he's wearing the ice out pin but normally you put that on your lapel he has it weighed down on his like his hip pocket it's almost like he he didn't even want to wear it but they were handing him out when you walked in he's like okay I guess I have to put this thing on and had the misfortune of being asked about it it's like a skit from a restaurant development or something so dumb and honestly Justin Bieber I mentioned him he was out there with one of those pins yesterday truly I mean honestly one of the dumbest people in public life he's things well I wouldn't take that away from him but for him who was like a week ago in his tidy white he's doing a concert to try to lecture us we pull the couple of pictures of Justin Bieber because like when you see Justin Bieber walking around these paparazzi shots where like literally the only part of him you can really see is just the little circle of his face because he's covered in his sweatshirt from head to toe or he's wearing his bizarre I don't know what like Justin Bieber is kind of like a Britney Spears Spears figure to me he's like kind of gone he became too big a star too rich at too early an age and now I don't I mean he's like like probably about six months away from a conservatorship from the look of it he now wants to lecture us on immigration policy rich should we ask him perhaps about temporary protected status and the latest decision which is based on alleged racial animus yeah it's a little bit like the French French Revolution you had where a cacke to show you with the revolutionaries and a lot of people just did it because they're scared or because everyone else was was doing it or they're forced to do it I think at one point that king was was wearing it because you know he's afraid of getting executed but yeah there's an elite that decides what the cause is and these are all lemmings they of course pride themselves in their great independence of mind and courage but there's nothing in the sword they just do what everyone else thinks they're they do what they're supposed to do and and play act and a lot of them are you know actors and they they sing the words put in front of them and this is just a version of that all right guys I gotta go but um you guys tell me you got my phone number show me text you tell me what you think I should ask vice president JD Vance about in our sit down tomorrow looking forward to this it'll be super fun it's gonna air in the program tomorrow we definitely it's gonna air tomorrow and we hope it'll air during our two hour block on series XM between 12 and 2 okay Charlie rich thanks you guys are the best and we'll have full coverage of what's happening in the Nancy got three case as well and for those of you listening I would love your thoughts on what I should ask the vice president tomorrow as well you can email me Megan at Megan Kelly dot com keep them piffy as uh or I'll use say keep it piffy please name and down if you wish to opine no yet that's not really necessary we'll see you tomorrow thanks for listening to the Megan Kelly show no BS no agenda and no fear