Home to the Rachel Maddow Show, Morning Joe, The Briefing with Jen Psaki, and more voices you know and trust. MS Now is your source for news, opinion, and the world. Learn more at MS.now. I won't even introduce myself by my name anymore. I get nervous when I bump into someone I know in the grocery store who says my name. I'm worried about who's listening. I get nervous when I have to give my name for food orders. I'm always concerned of who's around me. I've lost my name and I've lost my reputation. I've lost my sense of security. All because a group of people starting with number 45 and his ally, Rudy Giuliani, decided to scapegoat me and my daughter, Shea, to push their own lives about how the presidential election was stolen. This is the legacy of the current occupant of the White House. Hi again, everyone. It's five o'clock in New York. That was Fulton County, Georgia election worker Ruby Freeman on the devastation to her life and her name and her identity caused by Donald Trump's lies and attacks on her and her daughter, Shea Moss, as part of Donald Trump's efforts to steal the 2020 election, which he lost. Now Donald Trump is at it again and widening his attacks to every single person like that, every single election worker in Fulton County in an effort to weaponize his 2020 election lies to imperil future elections. New York Times reports this, quote, The Justice Department has demanded the identities of every worker who staffed the 2020 election in Fulton County, Georgia. That's according to court records, escalating an ongoing federal investigation of the 2020 vote in Georgia's most populous county that relies on false and debunked claims. The demand targets employees of Fulton County elections as well as volunteer poll workers who likely numbered in the thousands during the 2020 election, according to court records. In the current investigation into Fulton County, which began with a court-ordered seizure of election materials from a county warehouse, the FBI so far has not named any election workers, let alone publicly accused any of wrongdoing. Fulton County, in a filing, says that the subpoena is the latest move by the Department of Justice to, quote, target and harass the president's perceived political enemies, this time election officials, poll workers, and volunteers in Fulton County, whom Donald Trump continues to disparage as he perpetuates his false claim that they stole the 2020 election. Its purpose is to punish the president's perceived political opponents. It is grossly overbroad and untethered to any reasonable need. it cannot yield any evidence that could result in a criminal prosecution. It burdens the First Amendment rights of election workers and will chill their participation in elections. And it unreasonably interferes with Georgia's sovereign authority to administer elections. Fulton County's claims are not abstract. We have seen widespread threats of violence caused by Donald Trump's lies about the election. Reuters reports this in the aftermath of Trump's attempt to steal the 2020 election. Through public records and interviews, Reuters documented 102 threats of violence or death received by more than 40 election officials, workers and their relatives in eight of the most contested battleground states in the 2020 presidential contest. Each was explicit enough to put a reasonable person in fear of bodily harm or death, the typical legal threshold for prosecution. Almost all of the 102 threats of violence appeared to be inspired by Trump's debunked claims that the election was rigged against him. The messages often included highly personal, sometimes sexualized threats of violence or death, not only to the officials themselves, but also to their family members and their children. This latest piece of evidence of Donald Trump's willingness to endanger our election workers and their children in order to undermine our democracy ahead of time is where we start the hour with New York Times reporter who covers elections and voting for the Times, Nick Corsanini. His byline is on that reporting we just read from. Also joining us, former assistant special agent in charge at the FBI and national security and intelligence analyst Michael Feinberg is back. Nick, take us through what you're reporting. So this investigation has been going on in Fulton County now since January. And we learned pretty quickly that it was based on the same falsehoods and debunked conspiracy theories that have been swirling around Georgia and elections in the country since 2020. But this was a marked change to go after thousands of election workers. And this spans the gamut from people employed by the county, you know, kind of professional election workers to volunteers, people who drove a bus that moved around a mobile voting unit. And, you know, all they were doing were being bus drivers. So it was a really expansive effort. And it doesn't appear to be coming from much else other than as some of the court documents said last night in the Fulton County lawyers that it just feels like a fishing expedition. They can't see what the FBI is trying to get at other than getting all of these names. And it comes at a time when there's a pretty significant chill and fear among election officials across the across the country. You know, the Brennan Center did a survey, I think last month or very recently, that found about a third of election officials had been subject to harassment or violent threats. And one in four were legitimately concerned for their physical safety. And these are just nonpartisan election officials carrying out the nuts and bolts of elections. These are not partisan people. So when you take that arena, that atmosphere, that charged political nature that's been infesting the operation of our elections and and put this request from the Department of Justice on top of it, you could see how it could just have a chill on participation by these election workers, you know, both in Georgia and across the country. Yeah, I mean, Michael Feinberg with chill is about what happens next, right? But this is what has already happened. This is more from Ruby Freeman on the threat she faced to her physical safety. And this is questioning from the January 6th select committee public hearings from Adam Schiff to lifelong Republican Rusty Bowers and how he was harassed predicated on the same lies. Let me show you both of those. The protesters who occupied the Arizona House of Representatives building included Proud Boys, while men armed with rifles stood just outside the entrance. I understand these protesters were calling for you by name, Speaker Bowers. Is that correct? That is correct. Rusty Bowers went on, Michael Feinberg, to describe how trucks with billboards were driving back and forth outside of his house while a family member, I believe it was his daughter, was gravely ill calling him a pedophile. Ruby Freeman also went on to describe those threats. Let me play more of her as well. there is nowhere I feel safe nowhere do you know how it feels to have the President of the United States to target you the President of the United States is supposed to represent every American not to target one but he targeted me Lady Ruby, a small business owner, a mother, a proud American citizen who's standing up to help Fulton County run an election in the middle of the pandemic. Other people who face threats to their life and safety and their families, Chris Krebs, lifelong Republican, Miles Taylor, lifelong Republican, Adam Kinzinger, he was my guest here yesterday, Liz Cheney, who also defected, if you will, from the Trump cult and led the January 6th Select Committee hearings, Mark Milley, Mark Esper, Brad Raffensperger. I guess what all those names have in common is they're all Republicans. And I wonder if you have any theories, Michael Feinberg on how long Republicans will do the wrong thing, thinking that it will make them safe? Well, I would argue with the premise that Republicans still exist. There's a party by that name. It appears on ballots, but it has become completely unmoored from any conservative, philosophical, or political principles, which guided it for most of the 20th and what we've seen so far of the 21st century. And of course, that takeover begins with Donald Trump in 2016. I'm quite sure that none of the Republican luminaries today are familiar with the works of Russell Kirk or George Nash or William F. Buckley, or could even identify any of those three individuals out of a lineup. They've become a cult of personality, and the personality they have chosen to worship is somebody who has no problem calling half the country radical leftist scum on a regular basis and has no problem dispatching his proxies to make his critics' lives miserable. And I don't want to diminish the experiences of anybody you just named, but I think what we're potentially looking at is orders of magnitude worse going forward. Because in the aftermath of the 2020 election, it was private citizens working for Trump in a campaign capacity who were doing the harassment. One could recover civil damages from them. They could be prosecuted. But now that it's being done under the aegis of the Justice Department, there's a whole host of immunity considerations that come into account that may prevent future people like Mr. Bowers or the two Freemans from ever seeing any sort of justice if their life is similarly destroyed. I want to ask you Nick about this part of your reporting You write this The county noted in its motion that Trump has for years obsessively propagated the debunked conspiracy theory that Fulton County stole the 2020 election from him and he has made it clear that he seeks retribution against those who refuse to indulge his baseless claims. The motion quoted a 2025 online post in which the president said Ruby Freeman, quote, should have to pay Rudy back reparations and called for her to top Georgia officials, cover her and top Georgia officials to be prosecuted for the political crime of the century. I mean, the rest of them are all Republicans. Is he calling for Brian Kemp and Brad Raffensperger's and Bill Barr, who called it BS? Is he calling for Bill Barr, Brad Raffensperger and Brad Kemp's prosecutions? I mean, the president will push this, you know, as far as he can go rhetorically. And we've seen him take pretty extreme steps. And, you know, even today, we're seeing some of that retribution campaign in Indiana, where a lot of Republicans refused to redistrict there. And he called for them to be primaried and voting out, and they've faced similar threats. But I think something that is kind of really important that, you know, comes along with what we saw in Georgia, what we reported yesterday, is that people like Bill Barr, Brad Raffensperger, they have some support. They have security that can come in through the state. They have, you know, some of them are wealthy and they can pay for private security. So many of these election workers, you know, the thousands of volunteers, the poll workers, they have none of that. If their name gets in a true social post, or if they're brought into some kind of debate, we saw what happened to Ruby Freeman. You know, there's no safety net for those people. They're facing all of this completely on their own. And it can come down in a torrent of social media posts, of harassments, of calls, of swatting, things that we've seen elsewhere. And so while the president could be going aggressive and talking about prosecuting his enemies, as he has in others, and he's trying to currently do to a few. What is different with these local election officials and these poll workers is that they don't have the same support that a lot of the bigger name people do. And I think that's like one of the big concerns that I've heard, both from the Fulton County officials and democracy experts and voting rights groups, is that these are really exposed individuals who have no backing in the way that a larger, more publicly known person might. And these are the people, I guess, Michael Feinberg, who were the real victims of the death of the rule of law in the absence of an FBI that is not partisan and political in terms of the cases it investigates and pursues. I wonder what your thoughts are about how we on the pro-democracy side can protect the nonpartisan election workers. I think it would be foolish to rely whatsoever on any apparatus association with the federal government. Those of us who are interested in protecting democracy and American ideals and the framework we were blessed to inherit from our country's founders need to rely on state actors and the non-profit sphere, and to a certain extent, Article III courts. Congress, unfortunately, with its current majority, has abdicated its role as a co-equal branch of government, and it's not going to push back on the executive. The executive branch is a joke when it comes to rule of law. I don't know how to put it more plain than that. These are people who will lie through their teeth to the American public to score political points and win elections. So it's really going to come down to, I think, state actors and everyday citizens willing to stand up and demonstrate their rights and their capabilities in a participatory democracy. Nick, what's the endgame? Is he so worried about losing Georgia? What is this about? So much that has come of these investigations, of these true social posts, is a kind of eroding of faith in American elections and a sowing of chaos, right? We're seeing it with new maps being drawn, new voting laws being proposed, executive orders. It all creates this swirl of uncertainty and chaos and doubt. And when you can erode faith to that degree, then there's opportunities for when, say, an election doesn't go your way. you can use that kind of momentum to foment a challenge. And, you know, we saw the president do this in the 2020 election. So we can take what he's already done. We don't have to get, you know, into hypotheticals or anything. Look at what he's already done, the statements he was making before 2020, and then take it to now, the actions that he's taken either legally through the Justice Department, through his statements on True Social. And I think that kind of gets to where this midterm election is going. There's a big fear that it could go Democrats' way, and he's trying to build as many seawalls as he can to prevent that. I feel like a seawall somewhere is mad that you compared him to them. Nick Corsini, you wrote a piece about Bruce Springsteen that we forgot to ask you about, so you're going to have to come back tomorrow because Bruce Springsteen's hope and dream store is making its way to the Northeast, and we have to talk about your fantastic piece of reporting from the weekend from Saturday. So put it on your calendar. Michael Feinberg, you can be part of that conversation too. We can't always make you talk about the bleakest things happening in our country. I've seen him in concert 36 times. Okay. All right. It's the date. Same time, same place tomorrow. Different piece of Nick Corson-Nedi reporting. We'll do it. Nick, thank you for this reporting. Super important. Michael Feinberg sticks around a little longer with us. When we come back, we'll be joined by a former member of that January 6th select committee, the former Congresswoman Elaine Luria. She joins our conversation after the break. Also ahead, Donald Trump's campaign of retribution against anyone he deems disloyal. Today, there are comments that have gone viral from former MAGA lieutenant, she calls herself, Marjorie Taylor Greene, about the horrific things Donald Trump told her directly via text when her family and son began to get death threats. And she reached out to the White House and Trump's inner circle for help. Plus, as Nick mentioned, Trump is looking for political payback against seven Indiana Republicans who refuse to heed his call to redraw that state's congressional map. They are all facing primary challenges today in a test over just how much juice Donald Trump at 27 to 33 percent on the economy still has. We'll have more on that story later in the hour. Deadline White House continues after a quick break. Don't go anywhere. Subscribe to MSNOW Premium on Apple Podcasts for early access, ad-free listening, and bonus content to all of MSNOW's original podcasts, including the chart-topping series The Best People with Nicole Wallace, Why Is This Happening, Main Justice, and more. Plus, new episodes of all your favorite MSNOW shows ad-free, and ad-free listening to all of Rachel Maddow's original series, including Rachel Maddow Presents Burn Order. Subscribe to MSNOW Premium on Apple Podcasts. I'm going to bring in former Democratic Congresswoman Elaine Luria of Virginia to this conversation. She served on the January 6th Select Committee, as well as the House Armed Services Committee. She's currently running for Congress. Michael is still with us. Congresswoman, what is your best descriptor for how the attacks on our democracy compare to the period you investigated? the days and weeks after the 2020 election? How does that compare to where we are right now? I think it's a continuation. I think that, you know, President Trump, with the latest effort here by the Department of Justice to get these names through a federal grand jury subpoena, and, you know, we heard from Ruby Freeman and Shea Moss and really just trying to relitigate 2020. So uncertainty heading into this next election cycle where Republicans clearly know that they're on defensive. And if the results don't turn out the way Donald Trump wants, he has clearly laid enough uncertainty, paved a path here to start trying to contest the results of this upcoming election. How does his plunging political popularity impact the risk of his followers carrying out acts of political violence? Well, I think desperation leads to desperate actions. And we saw, you know, this whole narrative being perpetuated after the 2020 presidential race, which he still refuses to say that he lost, refuses to concede. You know, the person I'm running against will also still not say that he lost that election. And in fact, President Biden won the election when all evidence points to a free and fair election. And, you know, any time that he can continue to sow this uncertainty in people's mind and then just fan the flames of the fire, people are potentially likely to turn up again, either in the Capitol or other parts of the country, protesting potentially violently like they did on January 6th, the results of an election. When you see Donald Trump's pick to lead the Fed, Kevin Warsh, incapable of saying what Bill Barr said, Bill Barr called the lies about Donald Trump actually prevailing in 2020 bullshit. That was a quote. Kevin Warsh, who is the nominee to lead an independent body, won't say who won the 2020 election. What is, in your view, the power of that lie? It is something that he has been able to coerce people, people who have essentially signed a pledge of loyalty to him over the Constitution, over their jobs. We look at the Republicans in Congress today, and they just fall in line, fall in line with these lies in cases when they could and should stand up. Those who do are very few and far between. People like Liz Cheney, Adam Kinzinger, who served with me on the January 6th committee. But there's literally no one left in the House who has a backbone on the Republican side and will stand up to these lies. They just go along to get along and avoid getting primary. You know, Michael Farnberg, I want to bring you in on the pardoning of the insurrectionists themselves. Because when we talk about political violence, we we sometimes even those of us who cover it, I'll speak for myself. We memory hold the fact that we live in a post-political violence America. The Democrats and the Republicans ran for their lives. Democrats and Republicans put on their gas masks. Democrats and Republicans I think Josh Hawley ran the fastest and the farthest Looked like an Olympic sprinter What in your view do the pardon signal for future elections Like if we had a normal FBI what would they be guarding against A repeat of January 6th. I mean, I don't know how to put it more plain than that. It was essentially wiping the slate clean for everybody who took place in that, who took part in that abomination. You know, one thing I think Congresswoman Lurie's committee very much got right was an implicit assumption that January 6th was not the end of something. It was not the dying gasp of a political movement. It was actually the start of a new one. And that's something that I'm ashamed to say the Justice Department, when I worked for it, did not understand. And I think that's why for one of the first times in U.S. history, you had a congressional committee moving with more alacrity on potentially criminal behavior than investigators and prosecutors, at least in terms of trying to get to the top of the conspiracy and at that primary actors. Um, you know, by an odd coincidence, I, my final stop in the FBI was as the assistant special agent in charge and the acting special agent in charge in Congresswoman Lurie's district. And so I spent a good part of my time continuing the investigations and overseeing them into the individuals who drove up from the Tidewater, Hampton Roads area to take part in the riot, insurrection, whatever you want to call that criminal terroristic behavior. And I can tell you, I left the Bureau in that office in the summer of 2025, almost exactly a year ago. And the sentiments that drove people to take part in those events have not died down. And the pardons, if anything, have given them a reinvigoration that they were right and what they did was acceptable. So I really do tremble, regardless of how the elections turn out, I really do tremble at how half the population is going to react to them. Because we've essentially normalized political violence and given people a mulligan who don't part in it. Right. And questioning a system that is the opposite of what they describe. We are not a country rife with election fraud. Just ask lifelong Republicans, Chris Krebs, Bill Barr, Brad Raffensperger, Brian Kemp. I mean, I wonder, Congresswoman, if this comes up, you know, you're out there, you're in your district, you're once represented and seeking to represent again. Is it all economy or are there concerns about the state of our democracy? What are you hearing from voters? Well, Donald Trump came into office and he promised the American people peace and prosperity and focusing inward on America. And all we've gotten is war and rising prices and more chaos and still relitigating, as we're discussing now, an election from six years ago. What I hear most from people on the ground is certainly about prices, the cost of living. And it was bad enough before they started going to the pump. And now they're paying, you know, in our area $4.20 for gas on top of, you know, health care costs going up and the cost of housing. And the list is very long, but is truly the thing that's at the top of people's mind. They just can't afford their basic needs. And, you know, they have a government that has gone and started another war. And for a region like ours, I mean, it's important to note that in Hampton Roads, Norfolk, you know, two of the three aircraft carriers deployed right now are from our region. That's upwards of 15, almost 20,000 sailors in the Ford, which is finally on its way home, is wrapping up a deployment that's the longest deployment we've seen since the Vietnam War, 11 and a half months. And those sailors are in harm's way, especially with the increased danger of the new operations happening in the Strait of Hormuz. And, you know, people are, you know, thinking about those issues, pocketbook kitchen table issues about how expensive things are. And at the same time, they're worried about their sailors, family members who were deployed from an administration that has no in-state, no clear goal here, and really no way out of this situation, this chaos that they created. Congresswoman, it's lovely to see you and have you take part in this conversation. Thank you for being here, Michael Feinberg. Thank you for starting us off this hour. When we come back, what Marjorie Taylor Greene says Donald Trump told her and texted her when she reported receiving death threats against her son, her remarks and what they say about Donald Trump after a quick break. Artificial intelligence is moving very, very fast, and it's raising new questions just about every day about what it is, what it isn't. When all is said and done, what is the endgame? I'm Chris Hayes, and as part of my podcast, Why Is This Happening? I'm speaking with leading experts each week to help ground that conversation. We're right now in a situation where it's very difficult to understand what is real and what's not real. Why Is This Happening? The AI Endgame, a special miniseries from MS Now. Start listening today wherever you get your podcasts. We've been covering Donald Trump here for a decade, and a decade into his political life. And there are actually still some Republicans who are just now waking up and learning for the first time that loyalty to Donald Trump is just that, a one-way street. Take former Congresswoman Marjorie Taylor Greene, who has said some very interesting things lately, and we've covered them here. She's had a very public breakup with Trump. She spoke, though, about the threats that she's received and that her family's received and that her son has received after she broke with Trump by signing on to the Epstein petition. She describes the response she got when she reached out to the White House to help her. I sent him to all these people. I got no response from Susie Wiles. None. And she's a mother and a grandmother and a woman. I got no response from James Blair because he only cares about making money on campaigns. I did hear from Kash Patel. He said on it, but I haven't heard from him since. I don't know what he's on. J.D. Vance was very nice to me, compassionate and kind, and reassured me that he would do everything we could to find out what's going on. And then I heard back from Donald Trump. And I've saved these text messages. I'd probably get put in jail if I released them publicly, but I saved him, where Donald Trump proceeded to tell me that it was my fault and that I deserve it. If my son gets killed, I deserve it because I was a traitor to him. That is our president of the United States. That's the man that says MAGA is whatever he wants it to be. I want to bring in Charlie Sykes. He's the author of the newsletter to the contrary. Also joining us Atlanta journal constitution, chief political reporter, Greg Blustein. Greg, I have, I don't have complicated feelings about Marjorie Taylor green. I have multiple feelings in contradiction. I appreciate her outing the movement for what it is. I appreciate Marjorie Taylor green saying things about Kash Patel that I could never say. Marjorie Taylor Greene, Cash said he was on it, quote, I don't know what he's on. I'd like to associate myself with those same mysteries. But the accusation that Donald Trump, the president of the United States, said to her in writing that if her son was killed, she would, quote, deserve it, is extraordinary. And I wonder what bigger piece of Marjorie Taylor Greene's either life or career or conscience, this is a part of. Yeah, Nicole, I just have to keep reminding myself that this was one of the most devoted Trump loyalists, not just in Georgia, but around the nation, someone who might have been his most visible champion in Congress. And now she's saying, at best, the president shrugged at death threats, lobbed her son's way, and at worst, you know, almost sanctioned them. I was at a campaign event in her old district just last night. It was for a candidate for U.S. Senate. But I took the chance to just talk to folks there about her legacy in that district. Of course, there was already a special election to replace her. Some see her as a traitor to the cause, and some still staunchly stand by her. But what was interesting is there are folks from both sides of those camps who kind of see her as this almost a canary in a coal mine, some sort of early warning system about MAGA turning on itself. And I thought that was very, very noteworthy. Charlie Sykes, what do you think when you listen to her? This was a pretty remarkable speech. We've sort of digested it and are covering it in chunks. But she also declares in this speech, quote, MAGA is dead. Yeah. Charlie? Well, I guess I had the same reaction you had, you know, that, you know, what took her so long to realize that Donald Trump's loyalty only goes one way if only she had been warned? I know two things. Also, I wish if she had the text messages, she would release them. I would like to see that. I didn't know that Donald Trump was actually texting as opposed to also posting on Truth Social. But it is completely consistent. what she's describing, completely consistent with the way Donald Trump behaves to opponents and to people who break with him. The labeling of them as traitors, suggesting that any act of violence is their own responsibility. And in your previous segment, you talked about the legacy of January 6th. I mean, I kind of wish that Marjorie Taylor Greene had understood what she was unleashing when she embraced the attackers of the Capitol. I wish she had spoken out when Ruby Freeman was subject to this I mean there is a certain dark irony You know you played the soundbite of Ruby Freeman from the state of Georgia who was subjected to these kinds of threats death threats that we know that the president of the United States unleashed on her And now here's Marjorie Taylor Greene, who I don't believe stood up for Ruby Freeman ever, being subject to this as well. So once again, there's a certain karma factor here, isn't there? But if she has those texts, let's see them. Now, for the loyalists, the muggle loyalists, this might not make a difference. But for others, I think it does, as Greg points out, this is the canary in the coal mine. This is your destiny. If you have thrown in your lot with Donald Trump, this is what you are buying into. And if you ever disagree with him, if you ever call him out, this is what's going to happen, not just to you, but to members of your family. And I think this ought to be a cautionary tale to folks. But then again, we've had these cautionary tales for the last decade and you've documented them over and over and over again. So once again, what did Marjorie Taylor Greene think was going to happen? Who did she think Donald Trump was? And she really think that Donald Trump would do the right thing when push came to shove? Greg, what impact does it have on the voters? and I'm not talking about the MAGA, you know, dead enders, but in Georgia, they've elected Brian Kemp. They've elected Brad Raffensperger. They elected Jeff Duncan. They don't always pick Republicans who are MAGA crazy to the core. What impact does it have on the electorate in Georgia to have Kemp, Raffensperger, Sterling, Marjorie Taylor Greene now all speaking specifically to some of the dangers of Donald Trump and his lies about elections? Yeah, it's interesting because of those names you just mentioned, several of them are running for statewide office right now. The governor is term limited, but he's backing Derek Dooley, who's in either second or third in the Republican Senate polls. I was with Secretary of State Brad Raffensperger earlier today at a Rotary meeting out in the Atlanta suburbs. He's running for governor. He didn't mention Trump's name, I don't think, once the entire time. He's still embracing Trump, by the way. He's still embracing his policies. He's not embracing what happened in 2020, of course. But he's still running towards his MAGA-friendly policies, especially when it comes to the economy. Because in Georgia, Trump's—we just did—the AJC just conducted a poll of likely Republican voters. And Trump still has an 80% approval rating among likely voters in the May 19th primary. So Republicans know they almost have to run with him, at least on policy issues, if they're going to have a chance. But Brad Raffensperger right now is locked in third place, right? There's two even more MAGA-friendly candidates, Burt Jones and Rick Jackson, who are in first. That just gives you a snapshot of where things stand in Georgia. I'm just thinking of right from the other side. I want to know what a MAGA policy is. No one's going anywhere. When we come back, we'll let Greg field that question. We'll bring Charlie in. There's also more retribution from Donald Trump against Republicans to tell you about. The crime that these Republicans committed in Donald Trump's bended, warped mind, refusing to rig the midterm elections to aid him. We'll bring you that reporting next. First of all, it wasn't the conservative thing to do because mid-cycle gerrymandering takes power away from the people. It gives it to the government in order to be able to redraw maps any time that they're afraid they're going to be held accountable by the people. That's not conservative. But secondly, it wasn't what my constituents wanted. The whole democracy thing got in the way. But today in Indiana, seven Republican lawmakers are facing the wrath of Donald Trump in the form of primary challengers that he has endorsed. This was their reward for defying an intense pressure campaign from Donald Trump to get the Indiana state legislature to redraw their congressional map to boost Republicans' midterm odds. We're back with Charlie and Greg. I mean, Charlie, it's sort of simple, but it is not what the voters want. It's a political loser. And in the words of this state legislator, quote, it's not conservative either. Well, of course, it's not conservative. But, you know, once again, this is a Trump led purge. It is all about revenge or retribution. This primary is all about the refusal of these Republicans to go along with the mid-decade gerrymandering. So, look, I am not on the ground in Indiana and all politics is local. But if Donald Trump were to fail to purge these senators, it would be a rather extraordinary indication that perhaps his hold on the party is loosening. But as Greg points out, the vast majority of Republicans still say they support Donald Trump. So it's going to be very, very interesting. One would assume that Donald Trump would win all these elections, right, considering the fact that the Republican Party is a wholly owned subsidiary of Donald Trump. So I think tomorrow's discussion will be very interesting. But once again, how much energy is Donald Trump putting into attacking fellow Republicans this year at a time when Republicans are facing an existential crisis in the midterms? I mean, Charlie, I also wonder how much context we should start adding, right? So if you pull self-described MAGA Republicans, who if they're still there as gas seems to go up about 30 cents a week, are really like in for a dime, in for a dollar, that is a shrinking group. Every single day that I come on the air, that is a shrinking group. So arguably a smaller group is likely to become even more fervent in their support, but it does not portend for general election victories. What are you thinking about the shrinking coalition that supports Donald Trump at all? Well, you can see in virtually every poll that shrinking coalition. Yes, he is. He's rock solid with the MAGA. But watch the non-MAGA Republicans. And also, how does this play in a general election? Is this kind of internecine warfare, is it going to be appealing to swing voters. And obviously there's no focus on that right now. So, you know, it's all about loyalty. It's all about revenge. It's all about it's all about purging. And every time Donald Trump wins one of these elections, yes, he solidifies his control of the party. But as you point out, he's also shrinking that party. He is he is, you know, politics ought to be about addition in Donald Trump's party right now and what's happening in the Indiana and in Georgia to a certain extent, is politics by subtraction. Anyone who is not absolutely abjectly loyal to Donald Trump will have a target on their back. So what economic policies is Brad Raffensperger wrapping his arms and legs around? Because tariffs and the war in Iran, which have sent gas prices soaring, are the two big economic policies on voters' minds. Yeah, you're exactly right. And gas prices have gone up here in Georgia tremendously. You know, not just Raffensperger, but every candidate running for governor in higher office on the Republican side, they're all kind of using their pushes to cut taxes, whether it be the income tax or property tax caps, as a way to further what they say is the MAGA agenda. And you have candidates also saying the big, beautiful bill of last year was the most important achievement that Donald Trump has made, not just the second term, but even his first term. You had a candidate here say that last night. So that's the sort of rhetoric we're hearing from Republican statewide candidates here in Georgia. And look, it's the same challenge that Charlie was just mentioning. In Georgia, you had core conservatives who used to win Republican elections in Georgia, but the middle broke about six or eight years ago. And so now a lot of those middle-of-the-road voters that used to reliably vote in Republican races, they're split now. And that's where the future will be decided, not just in Georgia, but other purplish, swingish states. Turning to both of you as we covered this, Charlie Sykes and Greg Blustein, thank you so much for spending time with us today. When we come back, a brand new deal that could put more money in the pockets of Donald Trump than his kids and their friends and family. We'll have that new reporting next. I used to feel guilty taking the white cardboard boxes of M&Ms from the White House mess hall. But here's what Donald Trump and his family have been doing. They have leveraged their time as president into more than $4 billion extra in their pockets. That's according to new reporting in The New Yorker from earlier this year. The number could be increasing again because today Palm Beach County commissioners approved the renaming of their airport after Dear Leader. But the deal goes beyond simply honoring him with a name change. It also includes a highly unusual trademark deal that benefits Donald Trump and his kids. The Miami Herald reports this, quote, A copy of the agreement signed by Trump Sunday and reviewed by the Miami Herald shows it could leave openings for Trump's businesses and family members to benefit from the taxpayer-funded airport name change. For one, the agreement is non-exclusive to Palm Beach County. The non-exclusivity clause leaves an opening within the agreement for Trump's companies to sell airport-branded items off-site for profit, according to a trademark attorney. And it could force airport stores to buy branded merchandise from a list of approved retailers. A list controlled by a licensing company run by, wait for it, Donald Trump Jr., of course. We'll stay on top of that. Another break for us. We'll be right back. If you've listened to us the last two hours, you will know that voters are really mad. Someone who spends her days listening to voters is our guest on this week's episode of the Best People podcast. It is the brilliant and fearless Sarah Longwell, the founder and publisher of The Bulwark. She is indispensable to our understanding of the Trump story and how and when voters turn. Scan the QR code on your screen to watch our conversation on YouTube or download it wherever you get your podcasts. We want to thank you for letting us into your home tonight. We are grateful. Artificial intelligence is moving very, very fast, and it's raising new questions just about every day about what it is, what it isn't. When all is said and done, what is the endgame? I'm Chris Hayes, and as part of my podcast, Why Is This Happening, I'm speaking with leading experts each week to help ground that conversation. We're right now in a situation where it's very difficult to understand what is real and what's not real. Why Is This Happening, the AI endgame, a special miniseries from MS Now. Start listening today, wherever you get your podcasts. Thank you.
