John Brown won't apologize for his parenting playbook to greatness or his primary role in shaping his sons’ athletic careers, all 3 reaching elite levels, especially All-Pro Amon-Ra St. Brown, who credits his dad for his NFL mindset, discipline & drive.

Today's guest is John Brown. Many of you know him as Detroit Lions All-Pro receiver Amun-Ra St. Brown's father, or maybe Equiminius' father, or even Osiris. Well, all were D1 Power 4 receivers, two NFL starters, and the youngest, Amun-Ra, is one of the best in the business at his position. It's probably weird to hear his last name is Brown and his boys are St. Brown. And I would love to tell you that there's a big story to it, but there's not. He just thought that St. Brown would look better on the back of a jersey. You see, from his boy's birth, he had a plan. And let him tell it, he always has a plan. You might be surprised to know that the Compton born and bred Brown was also a world-renowned bodybuilder, winning Mr. Universe, Mr. World. So it's not like this dude's a bum who lives through his children. Now, he clarifies his statements on cutting the blood with Channing, talks training and raising children. what grandfathers look like and what happens when the plan doesn't work. So I guess that gets us to plan B. Oh crap, wait, there's no plan B. He does tell us why football was never for him and also why leadership and guidance is extremely important. Mr. Brown, as I respectfully call him, is self-assured. He's real. I mean, wait, sometimes unreal. But more than anything, he's authentic. And this is one that has everything in this episode. So please enjoy this pivot conversation with the ever controversial, but also educational, John Brown. Hold up. Limitless. Take a stomach. Got pinning it. I fought the head to witness it. Got my people feeling militant. Way I'm feeling got me up. Uh, on the mission, get me up. Uh, knowing me, I got the key. Uh, on the vision I can trust. Trust. Limitless. Take a stomach. Got pinning it. I fought the head to witness it. Got my people feeling militant. Channing's idol. What's up? Yeah. He crazy. He crazy. He crazy. No, man. Yo. I'm good for sure. Cool. Cool. He's crazy. Yeah. I got OG here. Are you ready? Well, speak my language. Yeah, I know you've been waiting for this. Pivot fam, this is John Brown. I mean, amateur Mr. Universe, two times. Bodybuilder, been in Europe, been to different countries, done so much. Also, the father of Equiminius, Osiris, and Amon Ra St. Brown. This is Fred Taylor. This is Channing Crowder. I'm Ryan Clark. Pivot fam, thank y'all for pivoting with us. I can't believe you and Chan were having conversations about not cutting it too much. I thought you was over getting in trouble for that. Well, I wasn't trying to get in trouble. I mean, my thing is, well, let's explain what he said. He's bigger than I thought he was, first of all. He's a big old dude. People who don't know, he's thick, too. Right? And so he said his wife is 5'9"? Yeah. I go, yeah. He's half and half. You have black, half white? Yep. I said, was your wife black? I said, OK, good. You can't keep cutting it. You know? I mean, most of the guys in the league are African-American. So it just, for me, they said I was a racist, but I'm a strategist. There's a difference. So for people who are listening to me talk, here's my thing. If you want your child to be number one in the world, listen to what I'm saying. If you want to be number two, don't listen to me. I don't know nothing about number two. The only thing I know is about number one. So if you want your child to be number one, listen to what I'm saying. I have a thing called black coffee. The reason I use that analogy is because Not everybody can drink black coffee straight. Some of them need a little sugar, a little cream. I ain't got no sugar, I ain't got no cream. I'm gonna give it to you straight, you believe it or not. If you want your child to be second place, second fiddle, then just keep it pushing. Don't listen to what I'm saying. This is only for those who want to get to the top, period. Now we can go. So my question is this, though. You did get the people saying that you were a racist talking about not cutting it. which I thought was a ridiculous statement, being that you're married... My wife is white. To a white woman. I'd be racist. Right, and so for you, what was that backlash like? Because we texted during that, and we were trying to get a show done, and then you went on with Amon Ra and I think Equiminius on their show to kind of talk about it. What was some of that backlash like for someone who knows he's not a thing that people were trying to make you out to be? And that does fall on your boys as well. I don't read all that internet stuff. So I don't know. I just heard, saw some clippings. I don't care about backlash because in life, you're going to be the hammer or the nail. You understand? I'm the hammer. So the nail never likes the hammer because he's always messing with him. You know what I mean? So it's a compliment in a way because if they're talking about you, good or bad, there's something you're doing to call their attention. You have to, in my opinion, people are always trying to tackle the person who's running with the ball. So if you don't want to get tackled, you don't want anybody to talk about you, don't pick the ball up. It's part of the program if you're trying to get to the top. That dude in the second place, you ain't got to worry about him. He loves people talking. He don't care if they talk about him. This is about first place here. That's it. And you say you're a strategist because that's what I was telling you where I had knee problems. Right. I tore my ACL four times in high school. It affected my college recruiting. It affected my draft stock and all that. So I actually, when I would date people, I'd ask them, what's your knee health history in your family? And they'd think it's funny. Fred laughs all the time. I wasn't going to breed in knee problems into my children. It's hereditary. I'm sorry. You thought about that with your three sons from the beginning. Before you even, because we all know how babies are made. Yeah, yeah. You thought about, before making a baby, I'm not going to make a baby with somebody that doesn't have no good stuff. I was 19 years old when I was thinking like this. And I didn't have kids until I was in my 30s. I've been thinking like this for a long time. So, again, if you want your child to be a great athlete, you got to think of these things. You know, if you want to have a sprinter or a fast, swift athlete because you were that, you got to watch how a woman walks. If she walks with her palms like this, that's fine. If she walks like this, that's a gorilla. You can't... Now, you can get a lineman. Ain't nothing wrong with a gorilla, don't get me wrong. But you can get some linemen out of that. Linemen. Yeah, look at people when they walk. See if their hands are like the gorilla look or like this here. Look at those ankles. Those ankles are small, she's swift. Yeah. You got to look at this. Thick ankles, ain't. Thick ankles, no. But don't get me wrong, ain't nothing wrong with a big old woman. Mm-hmm. Because, hey, there's a lot of big old linemen getting paid. Yeah. So it depends on what you want. You got to think about this. At 19, you was thinking about this? Oh, yeah, I'm thinking. Yeah, that's kind of what I want to hit on, John, is being vision-driven. Right. Something I think both you and Deon, Prine Time, have done well. When I talk about structure, intentionality, discipline, how you guys shape your sons, when did, like, these visions first come to your mind, you know, after you had your boys? I think it was divine, because if you ask me what made you change their last name, I can't really... I just knew it was the thing to do. It's like I was guided. I knew that Brown... No, it can't be Brown. You got James Brown, Star in Trouble, Bobby Brown, all these fools. No, they need to stand out, so I'm going to put St. Brown. I just knew it. These visions, I just knew to what type of woman you got to... I can't explain to you. It just came to me. And I just knew. It's not like I took a class or I read a book. I just knew. Best I can tell you is thinking about it. I'm in the hospital. None of my kids are here yet. Equinem is the first one. He comes out. I tell my wife, we gotta change the last name. She goes, why? I say, just trust me, it's gonna look good on a jersey. And she's like, well, what are you talking about? It's hard, you won't understand it. I felt like Noah in the ark or something. I just knew what to do. So it was football and nothing else, or did you consider? It was football, obviously basketball, baseball. We're not doing no stupid stuff like track and field or volleyball, no, no. I was a bodybuilder. I won the Mr. Universe twice, Mr. World three times. I got a little, I made a little money, but not what I should have made. Had I played football, I'd have been better off, or baseball or basketball. Look, parents gotta guide their kids. Don't become your kid's friend. That's a bunch of BS. I give my kids a choice whether they can have chocolate or ice or vanilla. They can choose that. Other than that, I'm choosing everything. Because I have more knowledge than them. I'm smarter than them. I was at a golf range. There was a gentleman there hitting balls. He noticed me. He said, I ain't good. I listen to your stuff because my grandson is playing some sport, and we're just trying to see what it is he likes. You don't, what do you mean what he like or she like? You tell them what they like. This is a mistake. See, you got lazy parents, but you don't have lazy kids. All these parents are lazy out here doing this madness. When did the boys get to an age where it became a conversation? Because it seems like for much of their young lives, it was, let's say, a dictatorship, right? You were the parent. You knew more than they did based on wisdom, experience. And so you were going to guide them or tell them what it was that they could like. Now they're grown adult men. When did the transition come where now I'm having a conversation with my father. My father's no longer telling me what to do. That probably happened when they were just exiting college. That's when that started to happen, you know? Because at some point, you got to let them fly on their own, you know? For me, it was college. I said, when it's time to pick a college, I stay out. I'm here if you need me, but I pulled back because picking a college, in my opinion, I couldn't be wrong, was like a rack of ties. You look at a rack of ties, you go, man, what tie do I want? And you're going to pick one. And for some reason, you want this one. So it was like college. I mean, they had all the top schools. You pick. You feel it. You feel it. And so I let them pick. That's when I kind of backed off a little. I'm still here to support them, but I kind of backed off a little. You thought about jerseys, though. So why not football for you growing up in Compton? What made you go away from it? I just told you I had no guidance. My mom and daddy were not there. I lived in a house with my mom and dad, and they did the best they can, but they were asleep. They were not conscious, I'll call. So if you're not conscious and you just sleep at the wheel or you're lazy, you don't know. So that's why I didn't do it, because I had no help. When I was four years old, I went to Emerson Elementary School, and that's when I decided to believe in myself. At the water fountain. I'll never forget it. I can take you to the spot and say... What happened at the water fountain? Well, there was a little girl there, she was talking to me, and I told her that I'm gonna win some gold medals. And she said, what are you talking about? I said, I'm gonna win gold medals. And she acted like she didn't believe me. And that was shocking to me, like, how do you not see that? I'm John Brown. I'm the greatest. So I knew then I had to believe in myself to make this thing happen. Wow. Yeah. So there's a phrase called helicopter parent. Mm-hmm. You're a helicopter parent. but it's almost taken as negative. Like, you evolved in this and on them, waking them up, doing that, where it burns kids out. And I would say, personally, that's the thing we talked about recently on the show. Where I want my kids to be successful so bad, I be on them, be on them, sending them to schools and all these schools and trying to get them right and waking them up early and working out. But as some... Hold on, stop it here. I got... You got it out. I hear it. I got a question. When you grew up, did your mom and dad have a one-car garage or two-car garage or three? Which one was it? Garage? Hold on, Captain Dynamite. Look here. Did your mom have a three-car garage or two-car? We stayed in an apartment upstairs. No garage. Okay. If you have a two-car garage, you got a chance. You got a three-car garage in the garden community, it's gonna be difficult. It's possible, but it's a little harder. What you got now? Four. Four Eight It bigger than four He has a mall He lives in a mall So, I'm just saying, when you have a two-car garage, it's easier to make it. When you live in a gated community, three-car... You can make it. Your kid can make it, but it's gonna be a little harder. You know, and so in terms of the helicopter, Dad, I heard that Tiger Moms and all this stuff here. Look. that goes in one ear and out the other. Everyone, at least most people on the planet, agree and accept that kids have to go to school at an early age, five, six, seven. You make them go to school. You helicopter them. Most kids don't want to go to school, but we all support that, you know what? No talking, no discussion. You're going to school, period. And no one called them helicopters. It's the same thing with sports. You got to just stay on top of them. A lot of people know your story because of your sons, right? Uh, from your sons. And RC kind of skimmed over the fact that you were two-time Mr. Universe, three-time Mr. World. I don't know the differences between those two, but maybe you can chime in on that. But your personal sacrifices, right? You had to give us some stuff to see that you can push your children farther, and obviously you attained an end goal. But let's talk about your personal sacrifices. What did you personally give up to see that, you know, they were able to reach their dreams? As a parent, in my opinion, I gave up everything. I had a little business. I wasn't a... Rich is relative. How many... A lot of money is relative, but I had a little business, and I gave up everything. Nothing mattered to me. I met a gentleman the other day. He came to me, he says, I need to talk to you. I got a problem. I go, what's the problem? He says, I'm telling my son to do the things you need. to do the things you were telling him, but my wife is saying that I'm living vicariously through my son. My wife is saying, because I didn't make it, I'm too hard on my son, trying to push my son too hard. No. Don't listen to that. Look, this... I was lucky. My wife never said that. I had a mission with my kids. And if you're on that mission, I don't care if your wife is acting crazy, talking bad, Saying that you're living vicariously to your kid. You're just doing this because you didn't make it. Let her say it. You got to just take the bullets. As a dad, take all them bullets. Don't say anything. Stay on the mission. Don't ever lose sight of the mission. That's important. I feel sorry for that guy. And he was telling me, man, because sometimes I wonder if she's right. Is she right? Am I making a mistake? Am I pushing too hard? Stay-at-home moms, my wife was a stay-at-home mom. They're underrated. Stay-at-home moms are the best thing you can ever find. You got a stay-at-home mom, man, it's easy to nurture your kids. You don't want someone else doing that. So, mom and dad, it's better when you guys are on the same page. My wife wakes up and tells me she's leaving, they're going to live in Paris, France. I go, okay, why are you doing that? She'll be because they're learning French, and I think it's better to immerse them into the country. I say, okay, good. So, I put the money out, to put the money out. They went to Paris for a whole semester, and that was how it works. I'm supporting what she's doing. She's supporting what you got to have support. But if you don't have support, don't take your eye off the mission. I have a question about the perception of black fathers. You know, the way Channing references you in dang near every show we do about parenting is crazy, right? Like, I think he has a poster on his wall of you and your boys. John Brown said. Yeah, yeah, you know what I mean? But, you know, along with you having three very successful athletes, LeVar Ball as well, and there's been a ton of negativity in sometimes surrounding you and them and the way that you've parented and the way that you guys show up and the way that you're present, and I feel like that conversation is a conversation that seems to be reserved for African-American fathers that push their kids to excellence. How much of that do you think is just the misperception or the way people kind of misconstrued what you were doing as a dad? I don't talk much about black and white to my kids. There was some backlash, a lot. You know, if I turn around, you see all these arrows in my back for me protecting my cubs. You'll understand that. But I grew up in Compton. I've seen a lot of bad stuff. A lot of guys getting shot in front of me. I've been shot at. I had guns pulled at them. I've been at gunpoint at least three or four times in my life. I'm talking about within two feet, threatening to kill me. I don't discuss these things with my kids, because I don't want my kids to become militant, because they didn't grow up in that. Their life is different now. What they see, what they experience is... If I tell them the stories and if you tell... I don't want to say the name, but there's an athlete, a basketball guy, who didn't get a lot of endorsement because he was too militant, because the dad made him real militant. Look at Maxine Waters. I hate to say it, but this lady tells the truth about her experience, how white folks treated her. I experienced that, but I don't tell it to my son because that ain't today. It's a whole different thing. So you got to just ignore that, let them say it, and keep it pushing. It ain't... Because it's not that serious. Did you experience any of that in bodybuilding? Which, especially, you know, during your time, wasn't necessarily a sport for African Americans. How much of that did you experience during your career? There was a... It was... Well, a lot is relative, but... For an example, I wanted to miss the universe. Come home. There's a magazine called Muscle Digest, and they wanted to do a story on me and this and that. I go, okay, I'll do it unless... But you have to put me on the cover of the magazine. Mike Glass, white guy, nice guy, a good friend of mine, came back, said, Johnny said no. I go, why? He put his head down, said, just tell me, who cares? Because you're black. I think he's joking, right? They didn't say that, right? He goes, yeah, I go, why would he say who cares? White people love black bodybuilders. What they sell, if they put you on the cover, the cells won't, the cells will drop. Wow. And I thought, well, that's kind of weird. I don't believe it, but whatever. I said, well, I'm not going to do it. And then they agreed. So, yeah, there were some things. But again, I don't care. To that point, and I know you're saying or you speak of how things are different. And I do believe they're different in some ways. I think it's evolved from that. I don't believe it's the simple just we can't do it because he's black. But there is a connection to the culture that they're unfamiliar with. When you look at someone like a Lamar Jackson, right, who still has his same friends from South Florida, who wears his hair a certain way, who dresses a certain way coming into the game, who wears a grill, but who's also a two-time MVP, who's also a three-time first-team All-Pro. his statistics, his accolades, his production say should be used as one of the faces of the league and marketed that way. But he's not. And then you look at a Josh Allen or you look at a Patrick Mahomes and they are seen that way and talked about that way and marketed that way. And so where I agree with you, your children are not a part of the same era or culture that you were. there are still some of those remnants of things that you have gone through. Yes, I agree with that. You know? 200%. A great analogy you just gave. And I believe that things are slowly changing, you know? I 100% agree that Lamar Jackson should be celebrated more for his accomplishments. So, and I think things are, I'm hoping that, you know, as we progress through life, things change. Because 100%, that is still there. You know, I see it every day. I'm not ignorant to that fact. As you're raising your boys and you're breeding them to be athletes, then you're training them to be athletes, do you talk to them about the marketing side, the marketability? Because my son, I'm pretty much done. My son gonna have tattoos. His daddy got tattoos all over his body. When he gets a vaded, I think he'll get tattoos. He got dreds down his back. I have to be honest with myself that that's not as marketable as a Patrick Mahomes, as a Josh Allen. Did you ever have a conversation with your boys? Because your boys are very... No tags. Sounds crazy. Well-kept. They'll look great in a Hanes video. They'll look great on a commercial. Did you ever think about that with your boys? I did. I did. You know, I thought, look, you guys. I had not an intense conversation, but I would say, look, you got to be careful with drinking, smoking, because it's a gateway to other drugs. Tattoos, I referred to, uh, what's the girl's name who said, don't put a... a bumper sticker on the Bentley. I never heard that. Yeah, uh, uh, the Cardass... One of the Kardashians. She said, well, I wouldn't put a bumper sticker on my Bentley. That's right. So it's the same thing, like, why would you... I told myself, why would you... You like your hairstyle you have now, right? You go, yeah. Would you like to have that hairstyle for the rest of your life? No. I said, why would you put something on your body that's there for the rest of your life. It's a fad. It's cool right now, but at some point, it's gonna go out of fashion, and you're stuck. I don't want to have a natural jerry curl for my whole life. You did have a jerry curl at one point, though. You didn't have a curl, you was out. You went in. You didn't have a curl back then, you was out. I have a question, though. What was more important, to make sure you was oiled up and tanned up for the competition or to make sure the jerry curl was together? Everything. Head to toe, you gotta have it right, baby. But listen, my curl wasn't wet. Oh. You like Deion, it was... No, because I had a white roommate. And Eric was in the bathroom, and he had curly hair, and he was spraying some stuff in his hair. And I go, what the hell is that? And I touched his hair. It was hard like a rock. I go, what is that? He goes, mousse. I said, what the hell is that? It just keeps the curls. So I sprayed the mousse in my hair, and it was hard, but it wasn't wet. It was shiny. It was shiny everything. But you had to have them head to toe. And so back to that question about my sons, you know, I would have them when they were like, what, seven, eight years old, I would get up the camera and have a guy frame it up, okay, and interview your brother, ask questions. And I would have them interview each other. At seven? Yeah. You got to do all that stuff. And so you got to sit your kids down. If you're trying to do what I'm talking about, I see kids, man, I saw a kid one day who was 6'3". 13 years old, could run like a rabbit. I said, man, if that was my son, 100% he goes to the NFL. Yeah. People think to get to the NFL, NBA is difficult. It's not difficult. Look at NBA. No offense to these guys, but they miss most of their shots. Whatever. You shoot 30%, you're good? No, you got to shoot better than that. Now, you could bat 300 and be good. You got to be a 50% shooter. No, I'm joking. Even 50 is bad. How you gonna be able to miss half of your shot? Because it's basketball. It's hard. No, no, no. They're lazy. They're not taking... They're not... Look at Curry. Why is Steph Curry better than everyone else? He puts in more work. Why is it the last 10 years, MVPs came from Europe? Last 10 years in a row. Think about it, R.C. I see your eyeballs moving. I think that is true. They're taking over because they're putting in more work. But they aren't taking over. We're talking about a select few players. Now, Nikola Jokic just happens to be the best in the world, but you're talking about all of these different continents and countries and all of them, and you get one player that's Greek in Yanis. You're talking about all the states in the United States, and you get one player. We're all looking for one player, the best MVP. Why is he not from the last 10 years? Why is he not from here? I'm telling you why, because they're lazy. If you listening to my voice you have a kid and you want to play basketball put in more work You make it easy It not difficult Making this thing happen is like this If I did a magic trick and then I showed you the trick you'd go, oh, that ain't nothing. It's not as impressive. The man who tells his wife, stand against the wall, and he'd throw knives in the carnival. My question is, how many knives did he have to throw before he told her, honey, stand there, I think I'm ready. He had to throw a lot of knives. My point is, if you have a child, you got to throw a lot of knives to make your child that person. Okay, so here is my question. And me and Channing, we talked about this recently because we were saying about how you want to see your children succeed at the thing they want to do. You have three boys, all of which were power for college football players, all of which had varying NFL success, right? Equiminius, when you look at him, if you walked them all in here, I'd say, that one's probably the best. He's the tallest. He's the biggest. But Amon Ra is going to be a Hall of Famer. How much do you believe the individual drive and talent and natural skills of your sons played into their success? Because you were doing and raising them all the same way. They played 25%. What's built would always outlast what's born. Let me say that again. What's built will always outlast what's born. In the 70s, the best athlete made it. Nowadays, you got guys who are not as good as that athlete, but they put in that work, they're taking their jobs. You got to put that work in. Do you care more that they remember the system you built or the belief that you had in them? All that. Once you ingrain it in them, it is what they are. It is the way they move in life. I train my kids not to be competitive, to dominate. I'm all over the place in my head, because I know I only have so much time, and there's so many things I want to say. First thing, let me tell you this. People, I ain't got time to tell you everything, but you can follow me on John Brown Podcast on Instagram, and look it up on YouTube, and you can find out everything else. and everything else. But I try to instill the good things in my kids, tell them how to think, how to turn them into... lack of a better term, monsters. Do them the pinchers. So we go out there, we dominate kids. Don't teach your kids how to compete. Don't be competitive. What is that? Dominate them. If you don't dominate them, you ain't doing it right. Again, we're talking about trying to be number one in the world, and pick the right sports. Don't do swimming or something stupid like that. You know? What's wrong with parents? You know why they do that? Because they don't believe in their kids. Look at WNBA. I bet there's a handful of girls, more than a handful, that could have played professional tennis and made a lot of money. They're great athletes. Mom and dad didn't push them right. It comes down to mom and dad. I was self-made, but I'm the exception, not the rule. So you have to make sure that you take your kids and put them in the right direction. What if you have a belief? Because it comes down to beliefs. Because you have your belief. And as a parent, like, you have to believe what's best for you and your children, and you have to parent accordingly. So, for example, we have a lot of talk about, well, football is so tough, and I don't want to put my kids into football right now. And then flag football from a structure standpoint, from an instructor standpoint, it's becoming more popular and more relevant. And a lot of parents want to go that route before they put them in a tackle. I see in South Florida where we live, a lot of parents want to go soccer, work on footwork, and then eventually allow their children to transition into flag and then tackle football. So what if a parent has that sort of, you know, a thought process in terms of allowing their children to go forward? only from five years old to nine years old. Then you stop it. At nine years old, you got to pick the hill you're going to live and die on. You can't be doing that stuff no more. So at nine years old, you must say, this is it. Here's what we're going to do. I'm going to help you. But mom and dad must be there. You and Dion, I think you both are great, have been great fathers in the development of your sons and allowing them to get to where they are now. Dion, he sort of brought his children up in an exposed environment, where your environment was more controlled. Like, you were right there. Both of you were right there, but yours was more controlled. His was more by exposure. Do you think it's better to expose them or shield them as you're bringing them up throughout? Oh, wow, that's a good question. I have to think about that. I'm usually on the dome with it. Wow. Wow, that's a good one. I think he has more exposure because of his lifestyle. He's exposed, right? I like to walk quietly but carry a big stick. I prefer that, you know? And so when you hit him beside the head, they ain't ready for it. If you come out loud, they are, oh, we know where he is. You know, even though Amaral was loud. You know? Oh, I remember. He been that way. I chalk it up till you was a little tired, and you let him do a little more than the other ones. You know, all the time you get to number three, you be like, man, I ain't need a trigger. Oh, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. He'll be OK. Osiris is my menace. Really? Oh, by far. Oh, my Lord. There's no question about it. Equinemius, he got... There's hot sauce on the menu, too. If you order, you're gonna get it. You know? So I ain't got no poop butts. Oh, no. They say that middle child is the head. Yeah, yeah. Now, we know you ain't got no soft ones, but let's talk about the way you parent or the way you advise relationships. Yeah, yeah. Right? Because... Shannon, talk to me. Yeah, because... Because I'm gonna ride with the wrong number because his girl didn't even know how many people got drafted before. You know, and you seem, and Miss Miriam, you guys seem to understand one another and support one another. And I can't think that there are a lot of people who would understand the way that you approached relationships. It is with love and respect. But you were like, I'm not finna marry somebody that's finna cut this, and my boys can't get this good. So my question to you is, when you talk to them about their relationships and where they go in marriage and then how they are gonna raise kids, what is some of the advice you give your boys in finding a woman? Well, you can fall in love with a short woman or a tall woman. It's the same love as the love. You understand? You got a choice to make. Be mindful. Amara has a beautiful girlfriend. I'm talking about inside, not out. She's beautiful outside, too, but just been together since 10th grade, just wanted to be But at that time, when I met her, she said she was 16 years old, and I told her, Amara don't have a girlfriend. Girls are dream killers. Yeah, girls are dream killers. Everybody know that, right? So you agree with that? I got to put you on the spot. No, I don't agree with that. I do not agree with that. Unlike you, I have two daughters. And also, I would say to them, girls, if I had girls, girls, boys are dream killers. You agree with that? Yes. OK. So we all on the same page with this thing here. So I told him that, but not to say anything bad towards her, just to try to give him a good foundation to understand this mission we're on. You can't screw around. You know, I'm in love. Oh. No, I can't play the game. I can't play that. I'm in love. She broke my heart. You can't have that. You can't get the heart broken. You know, I mean, hey, I mean, it'll be another love. But I mean, just even, but even in that, right, you say tall woman, short woman, women are dream killers, but they're now adults and they've made it. And to have a son who's been with the same young lady since the 10th grade, obviously she was, she has been a part of the dream. How do you think grandfather John Brown would be? Ooh. I already have a... Echo Nimitz has a grand... Okay. I have a grandbaby. I'm always trying to put a tennis racket in her hand right now. She's only five. I'm like, what's going on? What we doing? We got to get it going. You're five years old. We started in my house, we start training at five years old. You can't screw around, you know? I mean, why? Look, even my wife made them learn German, went to German school, French school. They took the SAT in three languages, German, French, and English. All three of my boys. It was top at everything. We just tried to destroy you at everything. Academics, sports, we trying to take your lunch. We just ripping your heart out. That's our, that's the model in my house. Rip they heart. Rip them out. You mentioned your wife and the role she played and on the educational side, and you obviously handled the physical tools. And I had some dude to educate you too. I ain't no dummy. I just wanted to make sure people understand that. No, I want you to tell it. What are the non-negotiables in your household? To my wife or to my kids? Just in your household, just across the board. I would like to know your relationship, non-negotiables with your wife first, if that's okay. Relationship with my sons? No, with your wife. Like, what are your non-negotiables in a marriage? I ain't standing in line. If there's a long line, I ain't doing it. All right? That means that your wife has to stand in line? Oh, we gotta go home. I ain't doing that. It's a long line, but I ain't doing it. What happened to your patients? No, no, it's just smart. It's being smart. All right, that's number one. You know, why are you standing in line for something? Okay. Now, this is a... I'm old school, so I'm gonna say something that doesn't apply today, but back in the day, I would never stop if I didn't have a cell phone to make a phone call out of the phone booth. Never, ever. That ain't happening. So those are two things that just ain't happening in my life. But other than that, I mean, I think my wife would disagree, but I think I'm pretty chill, you know? Like Amon told you, Amon said he was lovable, right? Yeah, he definitely said he was lovable. It gotta be, because you acting like it's too smooth. You are a strong spirit, I would say. And you're... But you and your wife had to have some kind of trouble learning what you're trying to do, even if she agrees, though. It gotta be pushback, man, because I'm trying to... I'm trying to get to John Brown... I'm trying to go to John Brown school, but I can't take this shit home. Why not? My wife ain't dealing with that. Well, you got to stay the course, though. You understand? Keep the family intact, because if you... If a person, like the gentleman I spoke to, he's having conflicts with his wife, you can't leave the wife, because if you leave the wife, now you're only going to see your kids on the weekends, half the time. You got to think about the mission. It's to get to the top of the mountain, So let her say what she wants. Let her do what she wants. Everybody just stay the course. It's very important to stay the course, you know? You have a standard, but do you recognize that your wife is a saint for figuring out that she has to... Or y'all have to understand that standard. Her path to heaven is paved. Oh, she VIP line. She gonna have a bottle in heaven. I'm assuming that. I realize that, you know, because the job she did was unbelievable. I mean, we almost never disagreed. We would disagree with, I don't know, what they did, should they wear this? Should she go skiing with them? I don't want them to get injured, something like that. But we almost never had disagreement. I don't ever remember her saying, I'm in the garage, let's go, 10 more, 20 more. You doing too much. I never heard that. All she said was, dinner's ready, that's all I heard. All right, boys, let's go. Get it, get, line it up. Let's get it right here. What type of husband did you want to model for the boys? because it definitely seems like you know what type of father you wanted to model. You wanted to be involved. You wanted to be present. You wanted to teach them and show them what to like and how to get there. You have this entire life mapped out of who they need to be. A lot of what our children see especially our boys in how to become husbands and how to become men is watching us do that What sort of husband did you want to model for them to be able to know when you go forward this is how you should treat the mother you're trying? To be active in their lives. My dad did the best he could. I played football in high school. I body built. They never came to one event. I was always by myself. So I want my kids to look at me and go, you know, my dad always supported me. Don't forget you got to give your kids support and to make them feel that they're worthy that they can do it That's what I want to give them and and you say it reminds me of Nelly line I'm number one two is not a winner three nobody remembers. That's how you read. Oh, Nelly said it I want to be number one two is not a winner and three nobody remembers Oh, yeah, and that's how you stand it. There's no number two. I don't care about him. We need to be number one Yes, Amara is a Hall of Fame receiver He did the same work as Equinemius and Osiris. How did those conversations go with the two sons that aren't on that top level? Another good question. I told Equinemius, he played in the league, I go, look, here's what I learned about this thing, this football thing. I used to hear guys say, man, they're at home on their couch, I never got a break, I never got a chance, I thought, well, he's full of it. Man, there's a lot of luck involved in this thing. in this thing. I know, I told my sons when they were young, I'm your dad, screw what you read in the papers, online, I'm gonna tell you the truth. If you ain't crap, I'm gonna tell you you ain't crap. If I tell you you're good, you're one of the best in the world, you can know you are. So at the end of the day, there's a lot of luck involved in this thing. So I tell my son, like, look at Equinemius. He's been bouncing around. I said, I saw a guy the other day, all I know is his last name was White. He was on some practice and now he's here. Last year he was on the practice squad, now he's here. I said, look, never quit grinding. You never know when your chance comes. So you gotta always keep your knife sharp. So I always tell him that. Osiris, Osiris hated football from the very beginning. Had he not got hurt? Man, I'm telling you, he was a freak. But he didn't like football. But I said, who cares if you like it or not? You're gonna do it. You'll like the money, you see? So he got injured in high school. He kept playing through college at Stanford. And he always wanted to go to Stanford. So I tell him, look, I'm proud of you, what you accomplished right now. Now he's a financial advisor for his brothers. So it's all working out, actually. So that's what I tell them to, like equanimals, keep your head up, keep your knife sharp. Don't quit, because you never know when your number's called. And they're going to say, this is our guy. When you set out on this journey, did you ever in your mind think, what if it doesn't work out? Hell no. Never thought of that. No plan B? No. B, what's that? Busted. B? A guy told me, you know the story about the guy who burned the ship? Mm-mm. When I was in college, a guy told me this story. He goes, these guys want to take over this island. So these pirates, and they went to the island, and the guy goes, look, we have 100 men, they have 1,000. Well, I think we can take them. So if we fight hard, we can be victorious. So they got to the shore, they looked back, and the guy burnt the boat. And he goes, Captain, the boat was on fire. He goes, well, why'd you do that? He said, well, now we gotta win. Now we ain't got no choice. Got no choice. So I take choice away. Just like a sidebar. What I don't understand, I told my sons, maybe in team sports it's a little different, but I don't understand when I see athletes win. When I won the Mr. Universe contest, I wasn't happy. How are you happy? I expected to win. When I see guys jumping down, I was crying. Oh, fuck. What the hell? Did they expect to lose? That's weird. They're too surprised. To be that surprised, you expected to lose, right or wrong? Sometimes it's the work you put in and finally getting to that moment that you dreamed of your whole life. I did the work. I expected to win. I was pissed. I was more pissed than happy, because I wanted to frickin' destroy everybody. Hmm. You gotta be an animal. You understand? And then they grab the basketball, but I don't see tears. What is that? Is that, like, a joke or something? I'm surprised I'm the only human being on the planet Earth that sees that and acknowledges that and says something about it. No one else says it. So it must be from planet blowtard. It must be a parallel universe, And I'm zapped over and no one knows I'm here. You're definitely from a different place. What's going on with the play? OK, so I think Michael Jordan's the greatest basketball player I ever seen play. I said I seen him play. You've been around a little longer. You may think somebody else. He's been around. He's better. He's not the greatest. He's maybe. He's generationally talented. But Michael Jordan, I think it was, in winning his third championship after his father passed, Like, he was at a really emotional moment. He was on the ground, crying with the basketball. And at the time in his life, I'm sure he expected to win. I'm sure he knew the work he put in. I'm sure when he got to the championship and the finals, who never went to a Game 7, when you see emotion like that... That's a little different. Okay. And that's why I said with team sports, because you're playing football, you're one guy, you got ten other fools, and they got to do their thing. And you go, man, I don't know if they're gonna do their job. So you could be like, oh, you happened once. You said, oh, they did it. Oh, my God. I understand that, you know? It didn't make sense, team sports. But individual sports, it don't make sense. Come on, man. That's crazy. You can't cry if you win the 100. No, you can't cry if you win the 100. Come on. He cried because these other fools did their job. Oh, Jesus, thank you. He blocked him, Jesus. It makes sense, though, right? John. Go ahead, Freddie T. I think you're amazing, man, and hopefully a lot of parents will learn a lot from this. But I do want to ask you one question before our biggest question. How would you think each of your sons would describe you when it's all said and done, not as a trainer, but as a father? Man, I don't know. Equanimous would probably say my dad was... I know Amaral would say that I was always there supporting him. I think Equanimous would say the same. They always probably say my dad was always there supporting us, giving us what we need, you know, helping us out, educating us, because I would stop the car. If I thought of something, pull over, turn on the camera. Frame me up. All right, listen up, boys, and I'll just tell them stuff, because I thought of something. I'd get off the freeway and just start talking to them. So he always put a lot of information, gave us a lot of information, as much as he could to make them turn into good men. You know what I mean? I wanted them to be productive, good men in the world. Okay. And the other question is your biggest pivot. We always ask our guests. The biggest pivot in life, That's that one moment you can look back on and say, because this happened to me or for me, I am who I am today. I'm going to give you two. When I was in the fourth grade, elementary school, Emerson Elementary School at that wild water fountain when I decided to believe in myself. Second one, I'm at Cal State Fullerton. I'm a senior. I get a call. You want to come to the Mr. World competition in Paris? I go, wow. I got an invitation. But I'm a senior, you hear about school, you should go to school, get your education. I'm like, oh man, geez. So I'm walking around the school in circles, talking to as many people as I could. What should I do? Should I leave, go after my dream, or should I stay here and finish school? I left. That was the best thing I ever done. Because when I went to Europe, my kids are born there, my business thrived, everything's changed when I got on that airplane. So that was the biggest pivot I would say that I had. But also, I want people watching this here to understand, I want more moms and dads to pivot and start believing in themselves. Believe in yourself and believe in your kids. I know you new parents out there who's never really went to the mountaintop in any athletic endeavor in life. It's difficult to look at your little Johnny, little Mary, and think they can be world champions. but you got to believe it. And if you don't believe it, follow me. I'm gonna write a book too. So, you know, I'm working on that. I'm going back to school to learn how to master AI on February the 10th. I went back to the university because I'm trying to figure this thing out. All this stuff I have, I want to give out in the book. If anybody out there knows how to write an AI book, give me a call or DM me or something. My last question would be this. There's so many parents that don't want to drive their kids or be on their kids because they're thinking about, like you said, little Johnny or little Mary, and the conversation they're having with their siblings about dads doing too much. What do you say to people who don't want to push their kids too hard because they want to make sure their kids are their friends at some point? Dangerous. I got to think about it. I got to be careful how I say this. It's very dangerous what you're doing because I'm from Compton. Where I came from, you didn't drink with your daddy when you were 15, 16 years old with your mama in the house. You didn't smoke weed with your mama, not in my neighborhood. When I came to Orange County, man, these white folks were doing all too much. Drink in the house. As long as they're in the house, they can drink. That's the gateway to other drugs. You gotta be careful trying to be their friend. You can't be their friend. There's a different, now I'm a dad. I wore, I had two hats. One was coach, one was dad. When it's time to work, I put my coach hat on. I take that coach hat off, they know when I have the dad hat on. But you got to make sure you're not trying to be their friend. It's OK to be their mom and their dad, but drinking marijuana with your kids, that's not, that's not, it's a gateway to other things. It's going to mess things up. At the end of the day, here's what I got to say. Just do what I goddamn tell you. You know? And it'll work out. Just do what I tell you. You understand? So follow me on Instagram or DM me, and I'll try to answer your questions. But it's not difficult. Come on, quit being stupid. And I've got one more in my John Brown University. Yes, sir. Because I'm trying to mold him. This is my man right here, 50 grand. Oh, he loves you. I love you. Do you regret anything that you did with your sons? Yeah, that's a good question, dog. I ain't going to say who. But someone, I made a mistake. Someone told my son when I wasn't there in high school, his foot was hurt. This doctor is okay to let the doctor give him a shot of, uh... Toradol, look. Cortezone? Cortezone, I think, or something like that. I should have told my son, look, stop, line up. I used to make him line up like soldiers. Line up. Okay, listen to me. Don't ever go to a doctor or a hospital without my consent. Let a doctor do anything. That's how Osiris' foot got messed up. Mm. Mm. Because he shot that in and ate all the fat up underneath his foot. So his bone was hitting the ground as he ran. Yeah. I didn't tell him. I didn't warn him. Had I warned him, that would have never happened. That's one regret I'm like, ugh. Because my goal was to have three of these dogs in this league tearing it up. Yeah. Man, I just was... It was basically everything I thought it was gonna be. You know, I remember, like I said, I tell people all the time, it's at the opening, I'm gonna rise, uncoverable. I mean, at the time, Asante Samuel was there, Pat Sertan II. It was real big-time players, and you were just walking up and down the sidelines, speaking the language I couldn't understand. But whatever you were saying, I knew it must have been some good stuff, because they couldn't stop it. Man, we appreciate your time, man. Thank you so much. I gotta call my wife. Hey, we got some stuff to talk about. Thanks for filling in with us. Big old monster right here. Oh, you're a big dude, man. He a big dude. Chan was downhill. Jeez.