Are You Raising a Kind Child … or a People Pleaser?

We're currently running a special limited time five week Q&A series exclusively for our Bratbusters boot camp members. Throughout April, I'm featuring selected member questions alongside the most common implementation hurdles in an exclusive episode each week for five weeks. If you're not already a member, it's not too late to be part of this series. You'll get an instant access to the episodes already released and the final episode question submission deadline is April 23 at 3pm Pacific Time. Go to bratbusters.com or check out the podcast description to learn more and join the Bratbusters boot camp today. There's no freaking way my kids would keep a gift that they didn't thank the person for. No freaking way at three years old. My almost five year old boy constantly name calls everyone, his family, friends and schoolmates. Yeah, that's an easy one in how you deal with it. She's a very sweet child and cares deeply for others but will not do as asked. Not all people pleasers are kind and not all kind people are people pleasers. They're quite different. But the way that you do both is you welcome to the Bratbusters Parenting Podcast. My name is Lisa Bunnage. I'm a parenting coach. I'm a mom. I'm also a grandmother. And I'm Amy Bunnage, Lisa's daughter, and I handle the marketing and planning here at Bratbusters. While I don't have kids, each episode will dive into parenting topics and Lisa will answer your questions. Let's get started. Okay, sweetie. What is today's topic? Today's topic is are you raising a kind kid or a people pleaser? Okay. Kind of two different things here. You know what? Let's go straight into the questions because we don't prepare for any of this, by the way, or I don't. Let's get straight into it and then I'm going to manipulate this whole topic in my own little way as we go along. Because there's people pleasing and then there's kindness. They're two different things, but they often can go together. So it'll be clear. I hope by the end of this podcast, are you raising a people pleaser? Or are you raising a kind child or are you raising both? Okay. Okay. I know where I want to go with this. Okay. The first question is Jen from the United States. Hi, my son is two years old and I want to find out more about how to teach empathy. He laughs when we get hurt and I just want to know if there's anything else I can do to help teach him this skill. Thank you. Okay, no. They can't learn empathy until they're really about three years and nine months old. I've been saying that for 50 years and now some big scientists came out and said they start to learn empathy at three years and nine months old. So it's evidently a real thing because they don't. The reason is they can't really have empathy because they don't understand that other people are like them. They don't have context of life and other people and other humans. They tend to think the world revolves around them by about three years and nine months. They've seen enough that they understand, wait a minute, there's other people in the world that have feelings like I do. They cry. You know, they just start to look at other people a little bit differently. That's when they start to gain empathy, but you can treat them to be kind to people by teaching them not to not to be mean. So if they do something naughty, you say no and then you maybe teach them how to be nice by saying you can do this with them. You can help push them. If they grab someone off a swing, you can show a two year old. No, it's their swing and they can show them how to push them on the swing. So you're showing them kindness, but you're not talking about it. They're not listening to you at two years old. You're just stopping them from being mean and maybe guiding them into doing some nice actions, but this not around conversation at all at this age. You're just sort of preventing them from being mean more than anything because they don't really have the ability to put anyone else ahead of them. And that's what empathy requires. You have to be able to put someone else ahead of your own feelings just for a short to even a three years and nine months old three years and nine months can do that. If someone's crying, they can literally forget about their own feelings and go over and put their arm around them with true empathy that really doesn't kick in until three years and nine months. What would you say to parents who say that they're a little kid who's younger than that shows empathy? Yeah, they can show it, but they're masking it. They're just repeating and parroting whatever you say. I'm sorry. Yeah, here you go. They're just mimicking their they're they're aping following whatever you've shown them, but they don't really feel it yet. It's just not really there yet. They don't really have empathy. It's not that they're not kind. They just haven't got that ability to put someone else first. And that's what it takes being kind to someone is putting the other person first, but they don't have that perspective on life yet. So it's not that they're not it's not that they're mean or anything. They just don't have that perspective. They're not developed enough yet to have that. The next question is a streak from Armenia. I feel like it's not always fair to take away something that belongs to my 30 month old daughter, i.e. a toy as a consequence. Won't she start seeing taking away other people's things as normal and only when she is hurting her 10 month old brother with that toy or when they can't share it. So taking them away from the fun seems logical. No, you're overthinking it. You said you don't think it's fair to take something of hers away. It's not. No, no, no, you go ahead. It's okay. It's just fine. Like if we keep getting tickets or get a DUI, they'll take our car away. I mean, that's how you learn, right? So yeah, don't don't overthink you're overthinking it. She's not, by the way, she's not. She understands. Wait a minute. I did something bad, so something's going to be taken away from me. That's all she's thinking. I think that I can understand this because you get quite a few questions around this with toddlers is the idea of won't they think that they can just take other kids toys if you're removing them from the kid. They don't tend to. I don't. I could go on and on about this and I don't think it's necessary. They just don't tend to manifest it that way. It just doesn't tend to. Sometimes they will, but there's a there's a reason why you're taking it away. Okay. They don't see it as they don't tend to see it as you being mean. They see it as they're just mad because they're losing something. That's they're viewing it. Remember, they're viewing it from their perspective, not yours. They don't turn into you and do it to someone else. They're just mad that you took it away. They're mad that they lost that. That's the psychological way of looking at it. They see everything from their own perspective. They see that they have just lost something. They don't tend to turn into you and do it to someone else. Okay. The next one is Jocelyn from the United States. Any tips on training a toddler out of repeatedly asking questions that have already been answered. So for example, two and a half year old will say, mom, can I color with which I might respond? Yes. As soon as I'm finished vacuuming, she may ask again while I'm vacuuming and then again, the second I turned the vacuum off. This just seems like a bit of a bad habit to me, but I'm unsure on how to train her out of this. I'm sorry. How old was she? Two and a half. Two and a half. Okay. So you've said, yes, you can as I'm going to vacuum and then we're going to get your coloring. She keeps asking just keep vacuuming and ignore her. Yeah. She'll eventually learn and make it very clear. Say, yes, you can as soon as I finish vacuuming, you can color. Okay. Or I'm going to get your coloring book as soon as I finish vacuum, whatever. Make it very clear. And then you've already made it very clear. She understands it. She just doesn't like it. There's a difference there. You don't need to keep explaining yourself. She just doesn't like it. And that's okay. Just keep vacuuming. She'll survive. Okay. The next one is Leonor from the United States. How do I deal with my daughter's bad behavior at school? She's five and started kindergarten. I know that most of it's my own doing. She wants attention at school. She's an only child and gets all of my attention. She's very controlling. And these days, once it's become clear to her that she can't control the teacher, although she tries, she's always tried to control me. She gets very reactive and she loses it for no reason whatsoever, gets demanding, bossy and upset very quickly. In school, it's all about getting attention. She doesn't understand the difference between good and bad attention. I know that she finds something's difficult. In school, she is disruptive, not every day, but once is enough to me to see that it's a problem. Yeah. You've trained her to do that because you said that you give her your full attention, but it's not attention she's after. It's control. Okay. So she gets all your attention, but she, then you said it's more about control for her. By the way, she's not happy. Her self-esteem's low because if she's acting out like that at school, they only do that at five years old when their self-esteem is low because it's embarrassing acting like that at school. I mean, it just says she doesn't feel good about herself. By you indulging her and allowing her to control you, you're actually doing her a disservice. Children need a leader. They don't need, they don't need to be controlling school, controlling home. They don't need to be controlling all that. I let kids be in control of the fun when I'm home with them for sure. They're in charge of all the play and the fun. But then once I say, okay, we're all done now. I'm going to go do some cooking. Now I'm doing the cooking and they know not to bother me or they can come and help me cook. But yeah, she's just controlling you and it's manifesting yourself at school. She's kind of lost. Children don't want to be in control. It's a natural instinct to need crave and want to leader. She's kind of lost right now. So work on your leadership skills. Remember their behavior is just between the age of three and 12. Their behavior is just a manifestation of your parenting. So it means that you're not a leader, that she's controlling you. She's leading you. Okay. And she's not happy doing it. Pretty guaranteed about that. And so yeah, work on your leadership skills. Check out the free behavior board on my website, www.bratbusters.com, or you can look into the bootcamp course if you want the extra help, the extra information there. Okay. So yeah, it's control. And then you said she doesn't understand good attention, bad attention. She doesn't care what it is. She does. She only wants good attention, but she just will is taking anything because she's, she's been given the permission to do so at home. So she seems to think that's okay to do at school too. She does know the difference. You're underestimating her. She does know the difference. She doesn't really want the bad, bad attention. It's just that she'll take anything at this point because that's what you keep giving, you keep giving into it. Are your kids driving you nuts? They don't have to check out bratbusters.com for my bootcamp courses. If you want to learn how to become a leader. Okay. The next one is Emma from the United Kingdom. My three year old daughter is a sweet and polite little girl and is great at using the phrase, please and thank you at home with me and dad. However, when we're with other people, she will not say thank you for gifts and won't say hello or goodbye to others, including grandparents. She does take time to warm up to people outside of the home. So I used to put it down as shyness, but this has been happening even once she's warmed up and is chatting comfortably with people. Her dad and I model the behavior. So for example, we say, wow, what a lovely gift. What do you say? Say thank you. And when she won't, we say thank you on her behalf. The same thing with goodbye. We give her a chance to say it and then say it for her when she stays silent. We've been doing this for two years now and no further with it. I find it very embarrassing. I think she's old enough by now. Is this something you would put on a behavior board? That's stubbornness. I would deal with that in the moment. I wouldn't worry about the goodbyes right now. I'd start with the thank you. So let's say you're at the grandparents house and everyone gives her gifts. She won't say thank you. I'll say, okay, well, say thank you because you don't mind. It's okay to remind them say thank you. And if you only say it once, if she won't say it, then I would say, okay, then the gift is going to stay here till next week. So you keep that gift and then she has to say phone up the person or FaceTime the person and she has to say thank you and then she'll get it next week. She's three years old. She can get that. There's no freaking way. My kids would keep a gift that they didn't thank the person for no freaking way at three years old. No way. That would stay wherever it was or I would put it in the trunk of the car and say, you'll get it within a week or you can even be nicer about that if you want to. I probably wouldn't. But because she's being stubborn at this point, she knows, she knows what she's doing. So then you could even say, look, as soon as you say thank you, we'll do a FaceTime with them. You say thank you and then you'll get the gift the next day or something. What age do you think manners become important? Okay. I think manners are really important because they're not a big deal. It takes two seconds to, or not even that, to just say, oh, say please say thank you. So I did that with my kids and then say you're welcome, whatever. So just repeat repetition, repetition, repetition. And if they don't, like I would have taken whatever they had in their hand if they didn't say thank you, I just would have taken it back and say, what do you say? And then they would get it. It's just that knee jerk reaction. So yeah, about two, I think they can learn how to say please and thank you around two. It's like a muscle memory. Yeah. But by three, that stubbornness, it's control. She knows what she's doing. Okay. The next question is Chloe from the United States. My daughter's eight and has been very strong willed since birth. She doesn't care for consequences when we take things away, doing chores from behavior board, et cetera. She quite literally will be bored and unhappy, but not budge. We've tried inventing consequences as the method you teach. It doesn't work either as she just calls us mean for not allowing us, not allowing something to happen. So for example, doing something fun. She doesn't want to see that it's her own choices causing the outcomes. She's a very sweet child and cares deeply for others, but will not do as asked. It's a struggle in every aspect. So homework, bedtime cleanup. Is there anything else we can do to help her be more motivated to make good choices for herself? As do you say, when you feel good, you do good. Yeah, I think that this is, you just haven't found the right consequence. Like, let me think here, she's eight. So I'm assuming you do the chore. She doesn't care about the chore. It's that negative deprivation one. But then sounds like she'll just do the chore anyway and not care about it. But I think she is bothered by it. I think it sounds to me like you're feeling guilty and you're getting pulled into it too much. So she's just pretending that she doesn't care. I think she does. I really think she does. Or that second consequence or even the first one, make it something that she really doesn't like. Like there's got to be something. Most kids don't like cleaning a dried toothpaste out of a sink. They also don't like cleaning. What do they call that? The window frames or the sliding door, the frames down the bottom. Just give them a wet rag and they have to wipe that down. They don't usually like doing that or cleaning the tops of baseboards around one room. So yeah, pick a chore and then don't react to it. Just say, no big deal. Let her do it. And she goes, I don't care. You're mean just whatever. Don't react to it. I think that she's upsetting you by pretending she doesn't care. That's my gut reaction. That's the feeling I got here. Just don't worry about it. Just let her follow through with the consequence and eventually it should work. But I think it's your reaction. That's what I'm guessing here. She's probably playing you like a fiddle. She's probably seeing you squirm. I don't care. And you're going, oh, but you should, but you're not going to, I think you're feeding into it. You have discussed just the line about she calls us mean for not allowing something to happen. You've discussed in the past how possibly like that wouldn't have fazed you. If a kid had called you mean care less. Why would I care about that? Why would you care if she called you mean? She's just trying to pull you in. I can understand as a parent that could be upsetting to hear in the moment. Well, I hate you. You're the worst parents. I hate you. You're awful. Yeah. I wish I had different parents. I would go, whatever. If they're just saying that because they're mad because they didn't get their own way, they're just trying to rile you. They're trying to get under your skin. That's all they're doing. You're mean. Okay. Whatever. That's what I would say. Whatever. Now, if you're working on this as the parent and I know that you talk about how calm leadership, connection is so important. How do you balance that when you're trying to deal with this, but you also are trying to connect with your kid? Well, that's the parents challenge because they'll say, well, I'm just so mad at her. I don't want to connect with her, but you got to none of this works if you're not connected. What I mean by connecting is you play with them in their world. You do. You play in their world or you show interest in their do activities with them in their world. Like if they love artwork, I would be doing artwork with them. If they love dancing, I'd probably be dancing with them to some tick talk dance or something. So yeah, you want to connect in their world and you never show anger when you're disciplining because that's when they tend to get, it feeds them. If you look angry, if you look like you've lost your emotional control, they take over. That's when they'll keep pushing. They'll see a weakness there. They'll just go in for the jugular. So if you say, okay, you have to do that. And then they say, I don't care. Well, then you know, and parents often get mad. I would just go, okay, whatever. So it's your frustration with her that's feeding that. I'm assuming. Okay. That's where I'm going with that. Okay. The next question is Rachel from Israel. My eldest son is eight when I'm angry with him and ask him to choose what my consequence should be. He seems to get uncomfortable and doesn't want me to quote unquote suffer. His answer is always that I shouldn't do anything. What are your thoughts on this? Well, I'm doing it anyway. So I'm going to come up with something. Yeah. It's no big deal. You treat it. There's too many emotions involved in that. I would just say, well, I'm going to do it anyway. How about we go up for ice cream? How about we play? I don't know a game. How about we play hide and seek? Whatever. So I'm going to do it anyway. You're putting too much emphasis on it. It sounds like it's too serious. I would just say, well, I'm going to do it anyway. Do you want to go up for ice cream? There you go. That's a good consequence. Let's go. Treat it as fun. Don't treat consequences as negative. Treat it like it's just something you got to do. It's going to happen. It's no big deal that you're putting too much is too much negativity around that one. Okay. The next one is anonymous. My question is regarding my 13 year old daughter. Everything turns into a power struggle. Homework, attitude, chores, even simple requests. I feel like I'm either nagging or exploding and neither works. How do I get cooperation without yelling or constant consequences? I get that the attitude is my fault. I have improved, but it's hard to ignore her bad attitude when it's 90% of the time. And it makes me and everyone else around her miserable. Could you please do another episode on teenagers? Yeah. The reason we don't talk about teenagers a lot is we don't get a lot of questions on them, but they are my specialty. They're my favorite age. And I get a lot of teenage stuff and coaching, but out there, we don't tend to, we don't get as many questions. We get most of them on toddlers. That's why. Okay. It's not that I don't love talking about them. It's just, they don't come. We're just sort of responding to what people are asking. Okay. Anyway, these are my top five tips for parenting teenagers. Each one is very important, but I would say the first one is probably the most important. Number one, you listen to understand and show empathy. You don't listen to gather information to lecture with or they will shut you out. If they want your advice, they'll ask for it. They already know it anyway. Number two, you negotiate as much as possible with teenagers. It goes something like this. Hey, I want your dirty clothes in the laundry from now on. What do you want from me? Reciprocity, right? You give respect to get it. Number three, don't sweat the small stuff. If they do something stupid, just say, well, that was stupid. Do you want to hear what I did when I was your age and laugh it off? Or do you want to hear what I did yesterday? In other words, there's no shame in making mistakes just like you did, just like you do, just like we all do. Life is messy. People are messy. We're all going to make mistakes. It does not make us bad people. Okay. Number four is don't leverage the good times to discuss the bad times. Often I'll teach parents how to connect with their teenagers and then they want to talk about all the hell their teenagers put them through over the last two years. They just, some of them just can't help themselves. It's like a revenge thing. Oh, well, so I'm so happy we're getting along today because the last two years has been pretty rough and you can't figure out why they gave you the finger and left the room. When do you discuss the bad times? Never. There's no point. Absolutely no point. It's just shaming and blaming them and there's just no point in doing it. Okay. It just is negative and I hate it. Okay. And number five is you can be a right fighter with teenagers or you can be happy. You can't be both. They will die on any hill. Even if you know you're right and they know you're right, they'll still die arguing on that hill. They just will. Okay. Now you're not always right by the way. Oftentimes when I'm coaching parents who have teenagers, I don't talk to kids or teenagers anymore, but the teenagers start to clue into what I'm doing just by the way the parents are talking to them. So they'll often say to their parents in about the third or fourth session, their parents will tell them something and they'll say, I don't agree with that. Can you ask that woman if she agrees with me or you? You want to know every single time that happens, I 100% agree with the teenager because the teenager just gets me by knowing the way their parents are talking to them. They get that I'm teaching respect and they know that I'm going to agree with them and the parents are always flabbergasted. They'll often say it like this. Can you believe they asked me who you'd agree with? You were me. Here's the scenario. It's always, I say, I agree with your teenager. It's interesting. And it's not because I'm trying to. It's just that they are right. You're not respecting them enough. You're not listening to them. You're not negotiating with them enough. That's how you get respect with teenagers. And then for Teenage Podcast, we did episode 89 and episode 13 are on teenagers. Oh, there you go. Okay. The next question is Isabel from Canada. My two-year-old son picked up a swear word from his father after a particularly explosive about a frustration. Now when my son becomes frustrated, he'll say the word and the word off. Ignoring it didn't stop him. Addressing it doesn't either. How would you handle this? I would still say it, but I would change how it said. Like I'm assuming it's the F one. Okay. I would say, oh, fun oink or something. I literally have done that with kids and I say, oh no, fun oink, fun oink. And I change it just a little bit, but I do it slowly. I don't ever say the bad words, but I just make it sound sort of similar. And then I change it because they're very pliable. They, they can be convinced that they're saying it wrong. Is it like when you're changing a dog's name, if you adopt it? Yes. And you do it very slowly. Yes. Yeah, exactly. It's like Charlie, you want to turn it into a Carmen. So it's car, it's Charmin. You know, it's like that. They, they can be convinced that they've been saying it wrong. Okay. If you do that enough, that works because they're just going to keep saying it because they think they realize that, wait a minute, it's getting a reaction. Okay. We have one final question. So Lisa from the United States, my almost five year old boy constantly name calls everyone, his family, friends and schoolmates. Yeah. That's an easy one in how you deal with it. You just put down no name calling or bad words on the behavior board. And then every time he does, then there's a consequence. Okay. That's it. That's a consequence one. I want to get into the title of this now. Because the title of, and I don't, you know, you do all this, but it brought up an interesting point in my own head. You said, are you raising kind kids or kind kid or a people pleaser? Now, the way I deal with both of those, I, they're different topics. Are you kind or are you a people pleaser? Not all people, people pleasers are kind and not all kind people are people pleasers. They're quite different, but the way that you do both is you increase their self-esteem. Because if they have high self-esteem, they think high enough about themselves. When you feel good, you do good and you tend to treat other people well. Okay. So you increase their self-esteem by being a leader for them and you play with them and connect with them. So they feel good about themselves. So the self-esteem makes them kind. Also, when they have high self-esteem, they will not go against what's good for them to please anyone else. Okay. Because their self-esteem is high enough that it turns them into a strong individual that they also have a lot of confidence in who they are. So then they're not going to be people pleasers. They don't feel the need to be liked by everybody because they feel good enough about themselves. So what I'm teaching here is I want you to raise strong, confident children with high self-esteem. They will be kind. They will also not turn into people pleasers. Does that make sense? Can you discuss, because sometimes in the past, when you've mentioned, um, if a kid's bossy or a leader, you say, well, a leader who's a kid will do something for the betterment of everyone, even if it isn't for themselves. How's that different? Here's the difference between a leader and a people and a bossy person. A bossy person, uh, tells people what to do that suits them. It's a very selfish way to be a bossy person is always selfish. Okay. It's all about them, what they want, what they think is right their way or the highway. That's a bossy person. A leader leads what's best for everybody. I'm rarely what they want or it could be, but if it isn't, they don't care. They will do what's best for everybody. So a leader want like a leader as a parent, you do what's best for the whole family, not just what you want. It's what's best for the kids. What's best for the family. Okay. Like a leader, um, think about it though, a really good leader puts other people ahead of themselves. And this is why you want to remove all your emotions when you're disciplining. You want to put your kids first by knowing that they need a calm leader. When they act out, you want to be calm as anything. And that is leadership. You're putting them first. If you get upset, you're putting yourself first. Okay. Um, but yeah, bossy person's very selfish. A leader is, is selfless. That's the difference. You're a very good leader. But I'm just curious the difference between being a leader then and being a people pleaser, because if you're putting other people's well being, no, but a leader, a leader still won't do to the detriment of themselves. Like they're not going to put themselves in harm's way just because someone else wanted them to do that. You see people, please, there is a little bit more. It can be self-destructive. That's, that's sort of more the way we're looking at it here. I think, especially with teenagers, they'll do something bad. Like they'll just go out and get drunk because they're trying to please their friend because they wanted to go out and drink with them, that kind of stuff. They'll do destructive stuff to please other people. They'll do stuff that hurts themselves. Whereas a leader still will do what's better for everybody, including themselves. I think that makes sense. Yeah. But leaders, leaders, leaders make people feel good. Bossy people make people feel bad. I'm just trying to think about even when trying to cook like a family dinner. And I'm like, okay, I'm working around everyone's taste buds. I've, there are certain things that I love that I know not everyone else loves. So I try not to cook that, but I'm not going to cook something I hate. That's right. And she's a very good leader. I'm a follower in my inner circle. I like to follow. I'm not a leader at all. I'm a leader as a, you know, for kids, and with my clients, but not in my real life, not my personal life, but you're a phenomenal leader. I was just realizing, I don't want to pat my own back and be like, when I cook, I do a great job at, but she does. Like even like we go out for dinner and her husband and I, we just sit and sit back and wait for her to order for us. We love that because we know she's going to order what, what we wouldn't even have thought of. She always makes it better, but she's thinking about us. It's not what she wants us to eat. It's what she, but that's why she's a good leader. She knows what's good for everybody and she, she just loves doing it. She loves organizing. She loves, she just loves all that. I don't. Um, so, but yeah, a leader does what's best for everybody, including themselves. Right. They don't eliminate themselves, but a people, please or will, their needs, their wants, they don't even think about that. They'll just do whatever they need to do to get that person to like them. And you don't want that at all. Well, I feel like we covered pretty much everything that I wanted to in this one. Is there anything else that you wanted to? No, I, I, I did like, remember we discussed sort of, we actually started filming this twice because the first time I said, raising a con kid or a people, please, they're not really opposites and they're not really the same. So I think I address that here because if you raise kids with high self-esteem, they will be kind and they also won't be a people, please. They will not compromise themselves to please others. I wanted to put them together simply because I know a lot of parents are trying to approach both of those goals. I get that. I get where it's coming from. It's just not the way I look at it, but we ended up addressing it both at the same time anyway, because the solution is the same. High self-esteem. And you do that by setting yourself up as a leader, someone for them to follow someone that makes them feel great about themselves. Right. And then organically, they end up feeling great about you too, but that's not your goal. You want them to feel good about themselves. High self-esteem. You can't beat it. Really? It's, it's the way to go. Sounded like an ad there, didn't it? High self-esteem. Get yourself half price off today. Anyway, thanks so much for joining us. Back again soon talking about another parenting topic. Happy parenting. Thanks for tuning in. If you're ready to dive deeper, check out bratbusters.com to learn more about the behavior board, parenting courses, and private 101 coaching with Lisa. 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