Economist Podcasts

Dhaka matters: an election for Bangladesh

21 min
Feb 11, 20262 months ago
Listen to Episode
Summary

This episode covers Bangladesh's first competitive election since 2008 following Sheikh Hasina's ouster, the emerging field of applied astrobiology for making space habitable, and how AI is transforming job applications with candidates using automation to apply to thousands of positions.

Insights
  • Bangladesh's return to democracy after 15 years of authoritarian rule faces challenges from established corrupt parties and economic instability
  • Applied astrobiology represents a shift from searching for existing life to actively creating habitable conditions in space using biological systems
  • AI has created an arms race in job applications where candidates can easily apply to thousands of jobs while recruiters struggle to process the volume
  • The future of recruitment may shift from applicants seeking jobs to companies actively seeking candidates through AI agents
  • Space colonization efforts will require closed-loop biological systems to produce food, pharmaceuticals, and materials rather than importing from Earth
Trends
Mass automation of job applications leading to 200% increase in applications per role since ChatGPTRise of fake job applicants and infiltration attempts through remote work positionsShift toward psychometric testing and AI screening to combat application fraudEvolution from traditional astrobiology to applied astrobiology for space habitabilityCompanies moving toward outbound recruitment rather than processing inbound applicationsDevelopment of biological systems for space-based manufacturing and sustainabilityIncreased use of one-click job application tools enabling bot applicationsGrowing concern about North Korean IT worker infiltration through fake applications
Companies
CarMax
Advertiser promoting stress-free car buying with pre-qualification and budget options
Dell
Advertiser promoting Tech Day sales event with deals on PCs and accessories
The Economist
Publisher of the podcast discussing global affairs and business trends
ChatGPT
Referenced as catalyst for 200% increase in job applications since its release
Gartner
Predicts that by 2028, one in four candidate profiles could be fake
Amazon
Blocked almost 2,000 applications from North Koreans applying for remote IT jobs
BetterHelp
Advertiser promoting online therapy services with 10% discount offer
People
Sheikh Hasina
Former Bangladesh Prime Minister ousted after 15 years of authoritarian rule
Mark Johnson
Senior editor at The Economist reporting on Bangladesh's election
Tariq Rahman
BNP party leader and favorite to win Bangladesh election, son of former PM
Khaleda Zia
Former Prime Minister and mother of Tariq Rahman who led BNP for years
Oliver Morton
Planetary affairs editor discussing applied astrobiology and space habitability
Shira Aviona
Business writer discussing AI's impact on job applications and recruitment
Jason Palmer
Host of The Intelligence podcast from The Economist
Rosie Blore
Co-host of The Intelligence podcast from The Economist
Andrew Palmer
Host of Boss Class podcast series on management mentioned for upcoming Q&A
Quotes
"This is a seminal moment for Bangladesh. It's the first competitive vote that the country has held since 2008."
Mark JohnsonN/A
"The average number of applications per role is up more than 200% since the release of ChatGPT"
Shira AvionaN/A
"One firm, Gartner, predicts that by 2028, as many as one in four candidate profiles could be fake."
Shira AvionaN/A
"It's probably easier now to conceive of a habitable Mars for some sense of habitability in centuries rather than millennia."
Oliver MortonN/A
"For a large number of voters, maybe 40% of the country's voters, they've never had a chance to cast a real ballot before."
Mark JohnsonN/A
Full Transcript
8 Speakers
Speaker A

Do you want to find a stress free way to buy your next car? Start at CarMax and shop your way. If you want to browse with confidence, get pre qualified online with no impact on your credit score and shop cars within your budget. From luxury cars to family rides, CarMax has options for almost every price range, including more than 25,000 cars priced under $25,000. So hey, want to get started? Just head to CarMax.com for details and get pre qualified today. Want to drive CarMax?

0:00

Speaker B

Have you been waiting for the perfect time to upgrade your tech? Good news. The wait is over. Dell Tech Day's annual sales event is here and we're celebrating our best customers with fantastic deals on the latest PCs like the Dell 14 plus with Intel Core Ultra processors. We've also got incredible perks like Dell Rewards, Fast Free shipping, Premium Support, Price Match Guarantee, and more and more. And while you're upgrading your PC, you may as well go all out because we're also offering huge deals on our premium suite of monitors and accessories. You know what that means? That's right. You can get a whole new setup with amazing savings. Clearly this is a sale you don't want to miss. Visit Dell.com deals that's Dell.com deals.

0:34

Speaker C

The Economist. Hello and welcome to the Intelligence from the Economist. I'm Jason Palmer.

1:23

Speaker D

And I'm Rosie Blore. Every weekday we provide a fresh perspective on the events shaping your world.

1:34

Speaker C

Lots of the scientific work done by spacecraft out in the solar system has been about looking for life. But a new idea is also brewing. Taking species to those heavenly bodies in a bid to make them more amenable to human life.

1:45

Speaker D

And ever more of us use AI to help write cover letters, fill in application forms, and even apply for new roles. Our correspondent, who recently got her job at the Economist the old fashioned way, reports. But first, It's been 18 months since Bangladesh finally ousted Sheikh Hasina. After 15 years during which Hasina's Awami League gutted the country's institutions and depleted its reserves, demonstrators burst onto the streets. The Gen Z protesters used social media to galvanize support. Campus rallies expanded into mass protests and they eventually stormed the Prime Minister's residence. The image of Sheikh Hasina fleeing by helicopter was one of the iconic shots of that year. Her downfall was celebrated in Bangladesh and Bey Tomorrow the country holds its general election. Then comes the real test.

2:02

Speaker E

This is a seminal moment for Bangladesh. It's the first competitive vote that the country has held since 2008.

3:20

Speaker D

Mark Johnson is a senior editor at the Economist.

3:28

Speaker E

So For a large number of voters, maybe 40% of the country's voters, they've never had a chance to cast a real ballot before. So there's a huge amount of excitement on the streets of Dhaka. There are election banners all over town. The return to democracy is going to bring lots of benefits to Bangladesh, but at the same time, there is a sense that it's not going to bring quite the wholesale political renewal that its revolutionaries had wanted.

3:32

Speaker D

Okay, so let's just start with the election itself. Who are the contenders?

4:00

Speaker E

Well, for all the excitement about revolution, the election is largely a fight between two long established parties. One is Jamaat, the largest and the most moderate of Bangladesh's Islamist parties. The other is the Bangladesh Nationalist Party, the bnp, which was led for years by Khaled Azir, a former prime minister, and is now fronted by her son, Tariq Rahman. And that party, the bnp, is the favourite to win.

4:04

Speaker D

So you went to Bangladesh recently and met Rahman, right? What's he like?

4:30

Speaker E

Yes, I got on his bulletproof campaign bus and we drove north out of Dhaka for four hours. We drove up to a big rally in the City of Mice in a large sports field. There he sat in the front seat of the bus almost all the way there, waving out of the front window at people who had come to see his convoy go past. For many of them, it was the first time they'd seen him since he flew back to the country in December. He spent the past 17 years in self exile in London.

4:35

Speaker D

And what does he stand for?

5:08

Speaker E

Well, Mr. Rahman's not an uncontroversial figure. His party, under his mother, won power three times in the 90s and the 2000s. His rule was not especially glorious. Indeed, in 2006, it looked like it was about to steal an election before the army intervened. Mr. Rahman did not formally serve in his mother's governments, but most people in the country saw him as a power within them. There's this leaked American diplomatic cable that was written in 2008, which allegedly was widely considered one of the most corrupt individuals in Bangladesh. And that's really haunted him ever since that came out in the WikiLeaks stash. I mean, I quizzed Mr. Rahman about all of this on the bus. He defended the BNP's record. He denies all allegations of wrongdoing. Bangladesh's newly independent courts have quashed convictions that were pressed against him in absentia during the regime of Sheikh Hasina. That's one reason he's been able to come back to the country now and Lots of observers say that the man who's come back is not the same as the the man who went away.

5:10

Speaker D

So where do the fault lines in Bangladesh come now? What does the opposing group stand for?

6:15

Speaker E

So its opponents in this election are Jamaat. More than 90% of Bangladeshis are Muslim. Some of them, after years of misrule, quite like the idea of having a somewhat more pious government. But also Jama' at have a very strong social media game. Although they've been around a long time, they've never held more than 18 seats in parliament. So for many Bangladeshis, they are seen as the reform option. They're seen as more favourable towards constitutional reform. They're seen as cleaner than many of the old parties, more disciplined, more meritocratic. And that's attracting votes, some cases in spite of them being Islamist, not because of it. Despite all this, there are lots of people in Bangladesh, lots of the liberal middle classes, who are very worried about the rise of this Islamist party. It will rule moderately and for all Bangladeshis, but very notably, it's not fielded any female candidates. It struggled to walk back a suggestion that its members would quite like to reduce the number of hours that Bangladeshi women work. There are questions about its ability to govern, whether it has quite the capacity to fill all the posts in government that need to be filled with strong ministers. So all this is somewhat strengthening the hand of Tariq Rahman and his bnp.

6:22

Speaker D

Right, so what are some of the challenges the new government will face?

7:46

Speaker E

Well, there's big economic challenges. The economy was on the verge of disaster 18 months ago. It's widely considered that the interim government has managed to pull it back from the brink. But there's a huge amount that hasn't been done a lot of treading water over the last two years, as you might expect. So this year, Bangladesh is going to graduate from this group of least developed countries that get advantages in trade and concessionary loans. It needs to prepare for that. It needs to be making its factories more efficient. It needs to increase government revenue, which is incredibly low compared to the average in Asia. It's about 7% of GDP. It needs to cut red tape. It needs to hammer down on corruption that holds business to ransom. And the country needs to do something about its relationship with India. It's its big neighbour. But relations are massively fraught. India is harboring Sheikh Hasina, which many in Bangladesh find completely inexcusable. But there's also been a sense that the caretaker administration has perhaps needled India more than it needed to in the last 18 months. So, although it won't be popular, a new government is going to have to rethink its ties with India and try and get them back on a more stable state.

7:50

Speaker D

So, as you say, it's a seminal election. Is this the beginning of a new democratic future now for Bangladesh?

9:01

Speaker E

Certainly Bangladeshis hope so. So there is a new constitution, or at least revisions to the constitution that were written by the interim government. That's a stack of changes that are supposed to prevent Bangladesh ever falling back into a fresh tyranny. Voters have a chance to pass those reforms in a referendum that's happening on the same day of the election. And if they pass, it'll be up to the next government to make sure that those changes go into force. There's also decisions to be made about the Cheikh Hasina's old party, the Awami League. It's been banned from participating in this election, but that's only a temporary ban. Probably the next government, even though it's going to hurt, a lot of Bangladeshis, will need to take some steps to rehabilitate them. Lots of Bangladeshis would still vote for them if they had a chance. And lots of Bangladeshis won't feel like they've had a fair election until they've had a chance to do that. There's a huge amount of work to do. People are, on the whole, optimistic, and they can be proud of what they've achieved since the revolution. But the hard job of building the new Bangladesh is only just begun.

9:09

Speaker D

Mark, thank you very much.

10:13

Speaker E

Thank you.

10:15

Speaker F

Five, four, three, two, one.

10:29

Speaker G

Ignition.

10:33

Speaker F

And liftoff. Go, Falcon, go. Start.

10:35

Speaker H

One of the great disappointments of the space age was that the other planets of the solar system, which people had imagined being inhabited and inhabitable, turned out to be really bleak, nasty places.

10:45

Speaker C

Oliver Morton is our Planetary affairs editor.

10:58

Speaker H

This brought forth an idea that maybe they could be turned into nicer places, even places where humans might gamble under open skies. That's the idea of terraforming. This is leading to a new type of thinking about the universe, one that goes by the name of applied astrobiology.

11:01

Speaker C

Now, I've run across certainly the word astrobiology before, but that has been in the context of looking for stuff that is already there.

11:23

Speaker H

Absolutely. Astrobiology is very much about the already there, because it was created in part to deal with the fact that previous attempts to have scientific looks at life elsewhere were bedeviled by the problem that there wasn't life elsewhere. As far as anyone could see. In the 1990s, various things, including new evidence about the fact that Mars might have been habitable. And the discovery of new planets around other stars, stars other than the sun, led to the creation of a new discipline called astrobiology, which looked not merely for life, which was either there or not, but for the conditions that might lead to or support life, for habitability. And habitability became the watchword, often boiling down or condensing into the idea of liquid water. And so what's happening now is that this idea of astrobiology is being to some extent reversed into the question of if we want the universe beyond the earth to be habitable, what do we have to do? So applying astrobiology is making places currently not habitable. Habitable. Habitable is one of those words that if you say it a lot, it sounds really silly.

11:30

Speaker C

Habitable. Habitable.

12:41

Speaker H

Habitable.

12:43

Speaker C

Okay, if the idea then is to go and to make things more habitable, Rather than looking for habitable places, what does that now look like? What does that entail?

12:44

Speaker H

Well, the ambition of the people talking about applied astrobiology Is that it's a very, very broad spectrum. For there to be life, there has to be something like an ecosystem. At the moment, the ecosystem on space stations is very, very open in that you have to take up most of the stuff that people are going to consume, you have to throw away most of the stuff which they have already consumed. And that's fine when the modal population of outer space is at the moment, about 10 people on a couple of different space stations. But if you're seriously thinking that there may be more space stations and there might be moon bases and there might be expedition emissions to Mars, you're going to need more habitability built into those projects. And that means more biology.

12:54

Speaker C

What do you mean by that?

13:38

Speaker H

I mean the ability to grow your own food, at least to some extent, the ability to produce your own pharmaceuticals, at least to some extent, the ability to produce feedstocks from which you can build things and make things. So plastics and things like that. These are all things that on Earth you use either life or petroleum products that come from long gone life to do in space. You don't have those things. And so you're going to have to do them from scratch. And you're going to have to find basically lots of nice little microbes willing to help you in this endeavor.

13:39

Speaker C

So how much of the effort to make places habitable comes down to that? Find the right bugs that do the.

14:11

Speaker H

Right jobs near term, that's very much what this game is about. The thing to do is find the right bugs. And the next step Is to make sure that the bugs can actually live on the raw materials that you find on the moon or on Mars. So you've gotta actually go out there and try. You've gotta suck it and see. And I think in terms of applied astrobiology, that's what the world will see in the next decade or so, be people trying to make bioreactors that make various different stuff that work using materials, probably first from the surface of the moon, then from the surface of Mars. And at the same time, similar bioreactors will be fed with earthly materials to make stuff in orbit for space stations.

14:18

Speaker C

You said that was the near term goal, but you also used the word terraforming, rather grandiose for the. It's kind of very Earth like endgame of this. How far between the two?

15:02

Speaker H

Oh, a long way. But exactly how far? Hard to say. Once you're used to using bugs that grow in Martian conditions, you might start thinking about how you can build a system whereby the bugs build more of their habitable conditions that allow them to have more bugs. And there are various ideas about ways to do this with light screens over the Martian soil that allow the Martian soil to warm up in places. And you could imagine sort of like, like spreading oases in some parts of Mars that might be useful for making stuff that potential astronauts or settlers could actually harvest further off, there's the idea of spreading this so far across the surface of Mars that Mars as a whole starts to become habitable.

15:12

Speaker C

Okay, but how long term, blue sky, red sky is all of this? What kind of timescales do you think we're talking about here?

16:01

Speaker H

I think in summary, it's probably easier now to conceive of a habitable Mars for some sense of habitability in centuries rather than millennia. The worry is that it's happening in the context of a political idea of Mars as a bolt hole frontier libertarian hellhole that one would not really want to buy into just because one wanted to partake in the sublime process of moving life from the earth towards the stars.

16:09

Speaker C

Oliver, it is always a pleasure to.

16:43

Speaker H

Chat and it's always a pleasure to be chatted with.

16:44

Speaker D

And if that hasn't blown your mind enough already, I recommend an episode of the Weekend Intelligence from last year on whether it would actually be possible to have sex in space. A crucial question. I'm sure you'll agree. To find out the answer, follow the link in the show. Notes.

16:50

Speaker G

Imagine the merging of trusted intelligence into a unified experience. Imagine collaboration amongst teams and across continents. Imagine an empowered ecosystem designed to deliver actionable insights that inspire growth and sustainability. That's the power of the the Connect Industrial Intelligence platform to help you see further innovate faster, accomplish more. That's the Connect effect. Learn more@thatsteconnecteffect.com BetterHelp Online Therapy bought this 30 second ad to remind you right now, wherever you are, to unclench your jaw, relax your shoulders, take a deep breath in and out. Feels better, right? That's 15 seconds of self care. Imagine what you could do with more. Visit betterhelp.com randompodcast for 10% off your first month of therapy. No pressure, just help. But for now, just just relax.

17:13

Speaker D

So Shira Aviona, you are one of our business writers. Tell me how you got your job at the Economist.

18:31

Speaker F

I applied and the Economist, blessedly I think for both recruiters and applicants, has a very low tech approach.

18:39

Speaker D

And what did you have to do to apply?

18:47

Speaker F

I just sent off an email.

18:49

Speaker D

You must have had to write something.

18:51

Speaker F

Oh yes, I wrote an article about sunscreen.

18:52

Speaker D

Okay, so this is not how most people get jobs these days. Tell me how AI is changing how people apply for jobs.

18:57

Speaker F

So a lot of recruiters were very excited by the advent of generative AI and they thought it would save them a lot of time. But it turns out that they're actually losing an arms race to candidates for whom it's much easier to use AI to send off flurries of job applications than it is for recruiters to read them.

19:05

Speaker D

Shira, haven't people always applied for lots of jobs with generic application forms and sent the same thing to people?

19:22

Speaker F

Yes, but the difference now is just the scale at which they're able to do that. So the average number of applications per role is up more than 200% since the release of ChatGPT and AI tools can now auto fill forms and you can even pay services to apply to hundreds or even thousands of jobs while you're sleeping or otherwise not paying attention. Many jobs also now offer one click apply. So basically all you need to do is have it auto populate your basic information. Or sometimes you can even have it pre saved. Press a button saying I'm interested and it will send off an application on your behalf. One click tools have also made it a lot easier for bots and also scammers to apply to jobs.

19:29

Speaker D

What is the point of a fake job applicant?

20:12

Speaker F

One reason why you might send off a fake job application is because you're trying to infiltrate a company. So if you get hired for an all remote job, that makes it a lot easier to access their system. One firm, Gartner, predicts that by 2028, as many as one in four candidate profiles could be fake. So, for example, in December, Amazon announced that it had blocked almost 2,000 applications from North Koreans applying for remote IT jobs. This is actually a fairly common North Korean scam. And one way that places sniff them out is that the minions mov are very popular in North Korea, and so looking for names like Kevin can be a way to spot them.

20:16

Speaker D

So what are companies doing to push back on fakes or just thousands of applications?

20:53

Speaker F

So the first thing they're trying to do is just ask nicely. So many places have just said to candidates, we have an AI policy. You can use it to help. In fact, we'd like you to use it to help, but please don't have it generate your entire application. But there are also deeper shifts in what kind of material they're asking for from candidates. So a lot of places have tried to fight fire with fire by having AI screen you before you can talk to a human to save recruiters time. And some places are shifting more to things like psychometric testing that is harder to scam, for example, like a visual puzzle that you have to solve.

21:00

Speaker D

So how, in the end, is this going to change how we apply for jobs?

21:37

Speaker F

So eventually, experts in the field say that this may bring about a more fundamental change in which companies seek out applicants rather than applicants applying to a job. Or even my job finding agent will talk to a company's recruiting agent. Firms have always done outbound inquiries, but eventually that may come to take over the vast majority of recruitment as a whole.

21:41

Speaker D

Shiram, thank you so much for talking to me.

22:07

Speaker F

Thanks very much.

22:10

Speaker D

You can hear much, much more about how AI will change our jobs and the office in Boss Class, Season 3, our new podcast series on management, which is just out. And in a special bonus edition coming soon, the host of Boss Class, Andrew Palmer, will be answering your questions. Do send them in to podcast@exterator.com no bots, please. That's all for this episode of the Intelligence. See you back here tomorrow.

22:13

Speaker E

Sam.

22:58