Welcome to the second part of our two part episode called Your Child is Not Your Co-Parent. In our first part of this episode, we went over the research on authoritative parenting, and we also talked about why negotiating everything backfires with Kids with ADHD. Today, we're going to start off talking about why common parenting advice can flex with the developmental needs of Kids with ADHD. Welcome to the ADHD Parenting Podcast with Mike McLeod of GrownOut ADHD and Ryan Wetzelblatt of ADHD Dude. Learn about parenting Kids with ADHD from a licensed clinical social worker and speech language pathologist who specializes in ADHD. No fluffy parenting advice, only practical information that will equip you to help your child with ADHD effectively. So Mike, why don't we start talking about, you know, just some of the modern parenting advice that is, you know, encouraging this heavy emotional validation and, you know, what I call parents acting as armchair therapists for kids, and why that's not helpful for kids with ADHD. Exactly. So I would say it's pretty safe to assume a lot of the parents that are going to devote their time to listen to this podcast, and thank you for all the great listeners out there. Most likely, the vast majority of you have a social media algorithm that is constantly throwing parenting advice at you. Most likely, the number one thing on your algorithm is parenting gurus and parenting influencers. And that's the most important thing to remember is the vast majority of them are influencers. And there's a very big difference between influencers and people that follow science. So some modern parenting advice will continually encourage heavy emotional validation and frequent discussions about feelings before parents lead. And what we have to understand here is that for children with ADHD, this can and often does create emotional overload rather than the calm that parents are constantly seeking. So when we make everything about emotional validation, which everything is about saying the feeling, labeling the feeling, recognize the feeling, you being an adult and validating emotions. This has been one of the most common things you see on parenting social media over the past 10, 15 years. But hey, here we are with the most depressed and in the middle of the youth mental health crisis with all this focus on social emotional and parents constantly validating emotions. I think it's pretty safe to say that we have not seen the results from using the strategy that all of the gurus have been talking about. So one of the pieces of research I wanted to talk about from this is one we referenced in the last episode from Johnston and MASH in 2001. And what they showed was that kids with ADHD need consistent leadership. And when parents seek their child's emotional approval before acting on something, the child becomes more reactive and uncertain because the leadership role feels unstable. And one of the things I teach in my parent behavior training courses is that kids need to know that adult are in charge. The ADHD brain is very concrete. They tend to be very literal about things. They need to know hierarchy in relationships. So when that leadership role is unclear to them or feels just vague, well, then it's no surprise at all that kids become more reactive and uncertain. And Mike, I want to share a story real quick having to do with my son. My son had pretty severe behaviors when he was younger to the point that he was in an out of district placement, didn't go to public school in our community, but was in an out of district placement for kids with behavior challenges. And one of the things I found and his principal pointed this out to me interestingly was that when he had teachers and it didn't matter if it was a man or a woman, but when he had teachers who were more authoritative and showed that consistent leadership, his behavior was better in their classes. When he had teachers who were maybe a little meeker or weren't authoritative, then his behavior often got worse. And I think this piece of research speaks perfectly to my son's experience with this. That was completely accurate. Yeah. And this kind of goes back to the whole concept of when it comes to ADHD, so many people think that ADHD is a school based disorder, executive functions, our skills needed for school. Really, you see the majority of ADHD behaviors in the home as opposed to school. Every single day I talk to parents and they'll tell me, they'll talk to the teacher and explain how the kid is in the home. And the teacher will say, are we talking about the same kid here? Like I've never seen those kind of behaviors before. And that's because the ADHD brain is responding better to the structure and the conditional relationships at school and home is unstructured with unconditional relationships. So that lack of hierarchy of relationships, parental authority and structure, they don't respond as well to that. So the next thing we wanted to talk about is something that's important to me because as a licensed mental health professional, one of the biggest things I feel that over time, the child and adolescent mental health field has done wrong is that they have taught parents to play armchair therapists with their kids, meaning always talking about how does that make you feel and processing emotions and everything. And this research from MA and associates in 2020 found that emotional regulation challenges in kids with ADHD mean that long discussions about feelings often overwhelm kids with ADHD instead of helping them process. So it actually does the opposite of what it's intended to do. It overwhelms them and their frustration tolerance is already low because as we know, many kids with ADHD have low frustration tolerance and this extended talking and processing the feelings can actually increase distress and increase emotional dysregulation. And Mike, I think both of us have seen that millions of times, particularly with parents who, you know, want to over explain everything and over and negotiate and even over empathize with kids. The more talking they do leads to more emotional dysregulation. Absolutely. You can take that last part of that sentence there and copy and paste it right into basically the 10 Commandments of ADHD Parenting. Extended talking can increase distress. That I always say language makes dysregulation worse. The more you talk, you are increasing this dysregulation, which is the hallmark of ADHD, an emotional regulation disorder. There you have it. Extended talking, monologues, verbal prompts, validating their feelings, talking about their feelings, talking things through, extended talking increases distress. Every ADHD parent needs to understand that. And, you know, you can validate feelings without getting into a lengthy discussion or playing, you know, again, armed to your therapist. And one of the other things that they found in this piece of research was that, you know, for kids with ADHD, these lengthy emotional conversations before every decision makes everyday tasks feel bigger and harder than they need to be. Why? Because you're giving so much energy to it. Instead of just saying, hey, this needs to get done. And, Mike, as we know, when, you know, kids with ADHD pull their parents into, you know, the argument vortex, the negotiation vortex, these tasks do feel bigger. And because we're giving so much energy to them, that makes them even more resistant because it feels more overwhelming. Instead of saying, okay, we're not, we're going to be done talking about this, you're going to do this, you'll be over in five minutes, and then, you know, you get to do whatever. Yeah. And I would just say, every time I see parenting advice on social media, one question I like to ask myself, is this parenting advice aimed at making the parent feel good? Or is this actually something that's supposed to be good for the, for the child? So think about it from the child's perspective, that the adult has to validate the child's emotions. They don't need, they don't need an adult to validate it, like it's a parking ticket, and say, and, and, oh, that emotion is real. I see you're this, they had the emotion already, they felt it. They don't need you to tell them that they felt that emotion, and it was real, and it was okay. They don't need you to check off a box and say, yep, you felt this way, and it was real, and it was okay, and it was accepted. They felt the emotion already. There's no reason to go over it and talk about it more, and actually cause them to ruminate on that emotion, because you, the parent, are putting more focus on it. So the next thing we want to talk a little bit about is why non hierarchical relationships, or I'm sorry, non hierarchical parent-child relationships raises anxiety. So what we mean by that is when basically parents are treating kids as co-parents. And the first thing we want to mention is that same piece of research from Evans in 2014 found that, you know, kids with ADHD need clarity around family roles. Again, ADHD brain is very concrete. They need to know where they stand. They need to know, you know, everybody's role in the family, and they depend on adults to create that structure, make decisions, and reduce uncertainty. And when they don't have that, because parents are treating kids as their co-parents, that is not helpful for them, and that can, you know, increase anxiety. And when parents act more like, you know, peers than leaders, kids often, or I should say, when parents act more like co-parents with kids and leaders, then kids feel responsible for decisions they are not developmentally ready to make. Mike, I often see that when parents, you know, allow their kids to decide whether they want to take medication or you guys see it, you know, whether they decide they want to participate in, you know, in services from grown out. Again, that increases anxiety and can show up as, you know, clinginess, avoidance, or defiance. And that was also confirmed by Johnston and MASH in their 2001 research. Yeah. And part of that 2001 research from Johnston and MASH showed that inconsistent leadership from the parents, not, you know, being permissive sometimes, being authoritative sometimes, but being mostly, you know, overall sort of giving the child too much negotiations and too much leeway for arguing, when there's inconsistent leadership, it leads to higher anxiety and more intense emotions. These ADHD kids depend on predictable roles to stay regulated. So when we are inconsistent in our leadership as parents, which is normal, you can be inconsistent, no parent is perfect, every day is different, every day is a new battle, kids will push buttons, kids will have behaviors, which is totally fine. It's not a sign of anything serious. It's what kids were meant to do, push their parents buttons. But when you as a parent are consistently inconsistent, it's going to increase the child's anxiety. To finish this part up, going back to that research from Evans and Associates, they found that, you know, predictable authority improves behavioral outcomes by reducing decision making pressure. So think about that for a minute. When parents step into their parental authority and lead their kids, it takes pressure away from the kids, no surprise there. And kids perform better when expectations are set for them and explained clearly, rather than constantly negotiate them. And that's why I teach in my creating daily expectations courses, you know, that you need to have daily expectations in place for behavior, helping around the house. Can they shift as needed? Yes, but they need to be there and they need to be very clear and age appropriate, or I should say developmentally appropriate and not negotiated, because again, this is what improves behavior. Okay. And it takes pressure away from kids. Exactly. And all Ryan are, all Ryan and I are trying to do here. Ryan and his parent in course, everything we do a grown now, ADHD do grow now in this podcast, all we're trying to do is empower parents and give them some hope during a very difficult time to be a parent. And what we're looking at here and what we're trying to explain to parents is that having a clear hierarchy in your home is not harsh. It's not going to lead to trauma. A clear hierarchy actually reduces stress by making it obvious who is in charge and what the rules are, which then is going to free the child to focus on coping and following through rather than evaluating or influencing decisions for constant negotiation. So to finish this episode up, we're going to talk about something that Mike and I have seen increasingly over the years we've been on social media, which is quite a while now. And what that has been has been this rejection of authoritative parenting, despite all the research behind it, towards what we'll call this comfort zone parenting and framing that as being compassionate and neurodiverse affirming. And the truth is, it's actually the opposite of those two things. So it is a natural reaction, I think, for any parent to want to protect their child from discomfort or frustration, especially when ADHD related challenges make daily life harder and kids make self-defeating comments, very common for, you know, that's a natural parental instinct to want to jump in and make things better for them. And there's nothing wrong with that. But what everyone needs to understand is, and again, supported by research by MA and associates in 2020, avoiding discomfort prevents kids with ADHD from practicing the skills they need to become more flexible and independent and it unintentionally teaches them that they cannot handle hard things. And I really want to emphasize that last part, that when you protect kids from discomfort, it teaches them that they cannot handle hard things and they need you to step in and rescue them. And everyone should definitely listen to our episode with Dr. Camilo Ortiz, who is a creator of independence therapy, which is an evidence-based intervention to help kids reduce anxiety. Dr. Ortiz talks about that kids need a tremendous amount of experience with what he calls the 4Ds. They need a tremendous amount of experience with discomfort, disappointment, mild danger, meaning like, you know, doing something on their own or using a kitchen knife. And the 4D is disagreement. So kids need that experience to become functional adults. And I think that is so incredibly accurate and why I always talk about that kids need this experience with the 4Ds. So, you know, again, the point here is that if you want your child to feel capable and build their confidence, confidence develops through kids who are recognizing their abilities within themselves, not from you giving them affirmations and telling them how great they are, not from them sitting in the therapist's office and talking about self-esteem. They develop self-confidence from practicing skills that they need to become more flexible and independent. Exactly. And if you're a parent that's very interested in this exact topic of discomfort and not constantly saving your child, there's a great book I would like to recommend called The Gift of Failure by Jessica Leahy, a fantastic book that I think all parents should read, especially parents of kids with ADHD. So really what we're sort of breaking down here is the ADHD brain we know is very black and white and rigid. So helping it develop the executive skill of cognitive flexibility is so incredibly important. But the real problem here is that the ADHD brain is always going to choose the path of least resistance, screens and conflict, the easiest possible road, the shortest way to do things, what offers instant gratification, but avoidance teaches the opposite of cognitive flexibility, keeps them stuck, and further delays the development of this clear skill. And we had a great conversation with Kristen McNeely about how anxiety has been treated in the incorrect way for years and years now by allowing kids to avoid what makes them anxious, which then feeds into the anxiety, makes it worse, it makes it more debilitating. So much of the school refusal is the avoidance and it makes things worse. So much of low-demand parenting allows for more avoidance, which delays the development of cognitive flexibility, which is a major predictor of long-term success in life, making friends, keeping friends, getting a job, keeping that job. You have to be mentally flexible. And Mike, I think we should just mention without going down a rabbit hole about that topic. Let's just leave it at this, Mike, that the concept of low-demand parenting, which has no evidence to support it whatsoever, everything we're talking about this episode, this research, conflicts that whole concept of low-demand parenting. So I just want you to keep that in mind, if you've wondered if that's a good approach to use with your child. And that is exactly why we're citing so much of this research today, because we need to get back to real scientific research, aside from people that just have high numbers of followers and know how to make catchy videos. It's very important that we go right back to real scientific data. So the next thing we want to talk about is some research from 2001, from Steinberg, that demonstrated that clear expectations paired with warmth help kids develop confidence. Because when parents guide kids through difficult moments, so not rescue them, not do it for them, but guide them, kids internalize the belief that they can handle it. And that's how they realize how capable they are to my last point. And the very last part of this is to keep in mind that leading a child out of their comfort zone with calm authority, meaning stepping into your parental authority, it helps kids develop resilience. And it reinforces the kids that discomfort is manageable and temporary and not something that must be removed or negotiated away. And while that was cited in Evans in their 2014 work, I also want to say this is the premise of what we know about the anxiety literature that when we allow kids to avoid anxiety, that actually makes anxiety worse, not better, because they don't learn that they can overcome anxiety. So one of the things with anxiety treatment is we don't keep kids away from things, we don't accommodate their anxiety, we help them learn that they can move through it and that anxiety is a temporary feeling that is not something that can be removed because that's not realistic, or negotiated away, but it's just something we have to realize that we can push through because all feelings are temporary. So how about we end this episode by giving parents three key overall takeaways? All right, why don't you start with number one, Mike? So number one, I think it's important the overemphasizing emotional validation can keep your child stuck. So wanting your child to feel heard is caring, but when validation replaces leadership, they miss chances to discover how capable they are. Expectations and follow through, build confidence, self-worth, and executive functioning. Number two takeaway is keep in mind negotiating some things is fine that can model flexibility. However, seeking approval for your parenting choices is not helpful. And I want to mention that Dr. Siggi Cohen had a great post about this a few days ago where she talked about you don't need your child's approval for setting boundaries with them. So trying to get your child to agree to every one of your parenting decisions teaches them that your parenting is up for debate. And keep in mind, like Dr. Siggi said, you don't need their permission to lead. And as we talked about a little earlier, trying to get their permission just raises their anxiety and makes things not clear for them and causes them stress. So keep that in mind. Little negotiating is okay, models flexibility, but do not seek their approval for your parenting choices. So Mike, why don't you finish up with number three? Yes, and number three is a very important one and a great one to end on. Parents, it is okay if your child is upset with you. We have to remember, children are resilient, not fragile. Temporary frustration with parents limits does not damage the relationship and especially not permanently. Clear leadership and predictable structure are what make relationships feel safe over time. This is so incredibly important. If you have a child where everything is always, you know, sunshine and rainbows and everything's positive and everything's great, chances are something's wrong and expectations are not there. You are the parent and you need to make decisions because kids are not like we mentioned earlier in the episode, developmentally ready to make choices that benefit them in the future because they don't have that time horizon. They can't see that far into the future. They're not developmentally ready yet. The brain develops until 30 years old and sometimes we give kids too much authority to make decisions that they're just not ready to do. So they need a parent who leads with leadership, love and limits and if they get upset with you over those limits, that is an okay thing. It is not going to last. It is totally normal. It is your responsibility as the parent not to let your child's emotions deter you from being a strong parent. Or let your child's emotions dictate your parenting choices. Yeah, absolutely. All right. So if you would like to see the research we said in this episode, please visit the show notes. If you would like us to answer one of your questions in an upcoming episode, you can email us at the ADHD parenting podcast at gmail.com. What we ask is to make sure include with your question your child's age and medication regimen. And we ask that in exchange for answering your question. If you could just take a moment to leave us a positive review on Apple podcast or Spotify, we would really appreciate that and just send a screenshot of it along with your question to the ADHD parenting podcast at gmail.com. So we hope this episode was helpful and we will speak to you soon. Thank you everyone. Thank you. Thanks for listening. To learn more about Mike's practice, grow now ADHD, please visit his website, grownowadhd.com. To learn about the services Ryan provides, please visit ADHDdude.com. You can find Mike on Instagram at grownowadhd and Ryan on the ADHD Dude YouTube channel. We'd love to hear your feedback or questions. So feel free to contact us at the ADHD Parenting Podcast at gmail.com. The ADHD Parenting Podcast and content posted by Grow Now ADHD or ADHD Dude are presented solely for general information and educational purposes. Our goal is to provide valuable insights and knowledge, not to replace professional services. Mike and Ryan cannot provide clinical consultation or free advice through social media or other forms of communication. The information on this podcast is not a substitute for professional advice. If you or your child have any medical or mental health concerns, please consult your healthcare professionals.
