Critical Darlings: Frankenstein And The Craft Category Juggernauts with Bilge Ebiri

Welcome to Critical Darlings, a conversation about the award season conversation. One contender at a time. Please welcome to the stage, your hosts, Richard Lawson and Allison Wilmore. Marie, thank you for that spirited introduction. As always, we so appreciate it. We are here again, as always, with our producer Ben Frisch, hello Ben. Good morning. And our special guest, Allison's co-worker, Bill the Abeary. Bill the thank you for being here. Hello, thank you for having me. Now we have brought you on to defense certain things. The defense room thing. Yes, we got, we got, well, we are quite a different design, but we do have some like, roiling, resentment from certain parties who thought we were being too dismissive. Yeah, our train nightmare and our ham note, not. Yes, oh no. No, I thought I was positive about ham note, but I guess not. But first off, I do want to issue one correction that a listener has sent in about our episode last week, where we talked about Pagonia. I quite erroneously said the Tony McNamara is British. He is in fact Australian. I apologize to all of the Australians listening to, and thank you for listening first of all. This is probably only slightly less egregious than when on my old podcast I called Killian Murphy British. Oh, that is not a thing. That did not go over well. I'm a dumb American who thinks anyone with a foreign ish accent who speaks in English is British, which they're not. There are lots of other places. So apologies to Mr. McNamara and our listener. But yes, we are here to talk about Frankenstein this week, but where we do that, is we all see mothering heights. The way we are. I just have not seen whether or not. Oh, we could, but I'm happy to talk about withering heights because I have been in withering heights hell for the past year. Now, in what way? I am watching every single adaptation of withering heights that were made. Wow. Okay. And not just like the BBC adaptations and what not, I am watching all the Indian adaptations, the Pakistani adaptation, the multiple Filipino adaptations, the Turkish adaptation, the Egyptian adaptation. And it has taken me the better part of a year. And I'm still not done. I'm like desperately trying to make my death line. Did this for yourself as well? Like this was a project you took on. I did. Did you know how many there were when you, I knew there were a lot. I knew there were a lot. And in fact, at one point, I had to draw the line at Tel Avivlas because there are multiple Tel Avivlas, like, you know, 50 episodes series from like the 50s and 60s from like Venezuela that I was, I don't even know how I would find these, let alone like watch them. Bronte just cash in those rail teachers. But it is fascinating how, so it's funny though, because like I've been hearing people talking about the new withering heights and some of the things it does, they're like, oh, it takes liberties. I'm like, well, they all take liberties, don't they? And of course, I'm in this world where I'm watching like a loose adaptation of it molded to the Bollywood model. Or even ones like the updated ones like the MTV withering heights and then withering high from the asylum or the gender flipped modern day British one spark house. Right. But you're not doing any of the porn parodies. I am not doing any of the porn parodies, although, you know, at one point I thought I should check and see if there's some porn pair and I was like, no, I can't go. I don't know if you want the word weathering in your porn. I don't know. Yeah, I do like spark house though as a, what is a flipped version of weathering heights? It's like, I mean, gender flipped was kind of the way they sold it, but it's actually very loose adaptation, updated, made in, I want to say 2002. And I mean, kind of an MTV, all the boys in it look like they could be members of Oasis. It's, you know, it's, it takes a lot of liberties and kind of feels like an afterschool special on crack. Wow. It's got all sorts of topical things like rape and suicide and all sorts of things, but um, and it's kind of crazy and fun in a weird way, but also, you know, really dodgy in other ways, but, you know, not the worst adaptation of this. Is that all for a ranking that you're going to be doing? Is that so? It's for a ranking. It's for a ranking that no one will read, but, you know, I'm going to read it. Yeah. Well, I, yeah, you're listening to this. Please go through this. Yeah. I feel like people will check it out just to see where like, you know, their favorite version of yours ended up on the link, but it is, it is kind of funny because like while I'm writing it, I'm also thinking, I am talking about the same story, like 36 times. And even blurb is like, I'm like, I have to, myself, I'm just saying the same things over and over and over again. Uh, well, you haven't seen, yeah, but do you, do you at the moment have a number one? I don't have a number one yet. I have kind of a top five. Okay. And I'm kind of a, how I'm feeling on day of also I want to see the new one too before I, before I kind of make a decision. There's kind of this like thing I'm struggling with, which often happens with these kinds of lists where I'm like, do I make my number one like a really different adaptation that I happen to love or do I make my number one like the best of the kind of more faithful adaptation? Custectively, there's a Transformers movie that's bothering him, right? That's tickly veiled. I would love that. I say go with your heart. Go with the one that speaks to you. I know. This is, this is the theme of the thing, right? Yeah. How have you found, how are these available to watch? Like that feels like that would be the trickiest. It's been, it's been a journey. I have bought discs from India, from Italy. In fact, I had this whole thing with, because there are two Italian miniseries of it. One of them, I've managed to find a German DVD that I bought through Amazon France of the Italian, the newer Italian miniseries. And then there's an older Italian miniseries actually starring Massimo Giotti as Heathcliff. That is also available. And I found a seller in Italy who would sell it to me. But then they ran into like tariff issues. Oh my god, this is still political. And it actually got to this point where I was like, I really need this. And she was like, I'm trying, but I don't know if I'm going to be able to get it to you in time. And finally, she was like, what if I just sent it to you? What if I just like burned it to you and sent it to you as files? I was like, please go ahead. That's fine. Now in Italian, do they call her Catarina Ernshaw or do they say Cat? It is Catarina. Okay. They actually do, they don't move it to Italy in that one. Right. It is still like Liverpool. And yeah, but it is Catarina. Yorkshire. Yeah. Are you always so thorough in your viewing habits? I feel like you guys like, you know, when you're reviewing something, you're often watching the previous, you know, directors. Sure. Yeah. I try, but I don't think any of us, I'll just kind of a little bit like that in this regard. Well, it was kind of, I used to do these lists back in the day for Vulture. And I think they sort of like the fact that I would be thorough. And in terms of like when I would, I have this ongoing list of great car movies that I update every time there's a new like racing movie or whatever comes up. But, you know, I went around and actually found car movies from all over the world, including that. I just kind of enjoyed the idea of like trying to find rare stuff that people might not be familiar with. Just upon a time, people tend readers tended to appreciate that. It's been long enough that now people actually kind of get angry at you if you include films they've never heard of. So, so that's been a fun little sea change to experience. Years ago I did a big list for Vulture of the best foreign language musicals. Some foreign language, meaning non-English language musicals because you would see lists of musicals and people would be like, oh, you know, it's all like, you know, start the cars born, singing in the rain, stuff like that. And I was like, well, there's so many like every culture has its own musicals, right? The Soviets had like musicals, Egyptian musicals are a thing. Obviously, Pauli would movies. And so I did this like 50 title list of like the greatest musicals not in English. And that was fun because I spent like a year, I spent like two years doing it. And it was, you know, you'd find like eBay, you know, you'd go on eBay and find like dodgy, you know, sort of gray market copies of films that you've been looking for. And there were films I couldn't find. But I just enjoyed that like my cinephelia began as trying to find rare, then rare Italian movies like Pasalini movies through like, you know, disreputable sources and stuff like that when I was a teenager. And as everything has become more available now, I'm like expanding to try and find really, really rare stuff. Spend a lot of time on dailymotion.com. I spend more time than I ever thought I would. Yeah. See, I thought daily motion was just to watch Australian survivor, but I guess not. It has other purposes. There are some real gems on there. Daily motion is where I found the Egyptian weathering heights, which is actually really good. And I discovered a new director, not a new director, but like a classic Egyptian director who's worked, I was unfamiliar with, but a guy named Kamala Alshake, who's actually a very well-regarded director in Egypt and talking to, you know, a couple of my Egyptian friends about him. I'm like, oh, this is like a really interesting guy. He was known as the Egyptian Hitchcock. And he specialized in kind of noir-ish type films. And even though his weathering heights isn't a noir, it has some of those elements, which actually fits that story really well. It's kind of a surprisingly faithful adaptation, even though it's like updated and set in Egypt. Anyway, all this stuff is just kind of fun. How deep is your Frankenstein knowledge? Because there have been, you know, a Cajillion Frankenstein movie, is right? I mean, yeah, I haven't watched all the Frankenases of time. But when around the time the Kenneth Branagh version came out years ago, I read the novel and, you know, sort of tried to familiarize myself with the story, but that was a long time. Do you close the loop on the weathering heights, Frankenstein? I will say Jacob Allority, who plays the monster in Frankenstein. I feel like there's a lot in common with like the kind of middle thread of Allority in weathering heights when he is not yet reinvented himself as Heathcliff is kind of grown up, but still kind of a brute. Yes, he's like this kind of brute. He's got a bit of a, he's like the kind of the same like his, his Frankenstein and that. And then he goes back with kind of a makeover a bit of a blow up. Yeah, yeah. He's like, it's like Colin Firth and Pride and Prejudice, but with a gold tooth and an earring. Yeah. Oh, that he does have the gold tooth. Yeah, they're subtle about it. Yeah, it's a delicate touch. A delicate touch. Yeah. Well, yes, we can, well, since it's, since this is podcast is weathering heights, is this going to be an Oscar movie, do we think? Oh, boy. I mean, I mean, we're going to get into like technical category stuff with Frankenstein for sure. I mean, I could see that being something that weathering heights has, you know, in its favor, like cinematography or certainly there's a best song in there right from Charlie XCX probably. I do love that song. Yeah, yeah. I was not a fan of the movie. So I'm having a hard time thinking positively about its awards chances. But sure, I mean, I think that Saltburn, her last movie, probably underperformed in that regard, people, I think, thought it might get some attention and it just really didn't. So I don't know this coming out in February. So it's a long haul to the Oscars. I don't know. Yeah, this weathering heights, it's for the fans, not the critics. I think so. I know. I think this critic did love one of the heights. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, wooly. I've heard another time. Yeah, for another time. Maybe this time next year, we'll be convening on this topic. We just want to acknowledge that it is out this week. It is out this week. And it does have a star in common. Yeah. But really, I think, like, really kind of like owning the hot, hulking, brute, you know, world right now, congrats to you, Jacob. Of the class of those late 20s into mid 30s guys, your mescles and your Joshua Connors' and all those people, calumterners, Leroy is only the second to get the Oscar attention really because mescal obviously got there first after son. And I was joking to some friends over text, because I was rewatching Frank and sign last night. And I was like, like, isn't it kind of funny that Jacob, Alority's first nomination is for playing Frank and sign monster? Like, would you have thought that watching Euphoria? And then it's like, well, he is really tall. So maybe that does. Maybe it's not that surprising. I mean, it has informed a lot of his roles. You know, he was deemed back when he was a teenager in Australia, his mother, he was doing acting classes, became obsessed with acting. His mom was like, you should also consider modeling. It would be a good way to like make money or whatever. And he tried and they were like, you're too tall for the sample size clothing. Wow. There is actually, I didn't realize that was stealing. I didn't realize either. I feel like that the height thing even figures into his Elvis, you know, in Priscilla. Like it uses the height difference between them to almost like emphasize also the power imbalance and kind of like her youthfulness is like also becomes compounded. It's like physically smallness. Like this is actually, I remember, sorry, tangent. But when I was a kid reading about El McPherson, generation X represent, but she often talked about how she had difficulty getting modeling contract because she was tall. And in Australia, it was like really seen as like a, like a real knock against you if you were like a certain height above a certain height. I guess you were getting too uppity. I don't know. I, you know, but it was like she was like, I mean, what do you think you're from the northern hemisphere of Australia? I talked on the whole syndrome in a very little. So it's like, you know, like that was the thing that she would say. I don't know if it's actually true. Well, that's the well. I mean, well, we had an Australian listener write in about the Tony Macimer thing. Yeah. So if you haven't even been about the height. Yeah. But yeah, no, I do think that like rewatching this, I do think, Elordie is good. And it is exciting for him, but it's just, it is still a little funny to me. Did you see the Paul Schrader movie at Cannes, Bill, the, okay, Canada? Yeah. So he plays the younger version of Richard Geer in that, which is like, okay, so as he got older, he shrank a lot of those happen. It does happen. But that's quite, that's a movie where I think that maybe Schrader, who is obviously a brilliant director, but like in that, I think he seemed to be a little bit unsure how to film someone that tall and how to like frame him because there were times in a Canada where, you know, he's in the past with the Elordie stuff where he's sitting in a chair or something and you're like, is that like a doll furniture? Because he just looms in it. And then sometimes it feels like the camera's straining to capture him in full. That was the only time in a movie where I thought his height was a detriment, to be honest. Yeah. I mean, I think you see it a bit sometimes with a fellow Australian Elizabeth DeBickey. Sure. You know, where sometimes when she is just like shot without anyone accommodating the height, you're like, wow, like, yeah, everyone else, the scale of everything, like, looks different. They could put him in the bar in Blue Moon. Yeah, it's exactly. And then you wouldn't need to like make Ethan Hawke look smaller, he could, uh, automatically. David! Look. This episode? Don't act so surprised because it's a familiar friend. No, okay. This episode's brought to you by movie. Y'all, just kidding! Comfortable! You are, we love that! There we are, a global film company of champions, great cinema, iconic directors, emerging on tours. Always something you discover with movie, each and every film hand selected. So you can explore the best of cinema. Nothing more to say, I guess. Wrong! There's a new film coming to theaters. Yep. Movie theaters, February 13th, the first Nigerian film ever in official competition again. That's pretty wild. This is a film by Akinola Davis called My Father's Shadow is BAFTA nominated, poetic, tender portrait of a father's son bond framed within the political landscape of 1993 Legos in Nigeria. 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Oh, the classic. The original. Oh, my goodness. That's fun. Like a restoration. Yeah, and look at it. They got a collection called the heartthrob, Nicholas Cage. It's young dreamy cage. Wow. Still dreaming to me? Hey, you're very open-hearted. Anyway, to stream the best of cinema, you can try movie free for 30 days at moobie.com slash blank check. That's mubi.com slash blank check for a whole month of great cinema for free. And then go see my father's shadow in theaters. Please, thank you for listening. Thank you. Thank you for your attention to this matter. Thank you, very kind. David. Right. Right? Right. I am correct. That's your name. It's time to take a break from your school or work routine, but stay consistent. That's the tough balance. We should have a school routine. Take me back to school, baby. Well, you have a school routine. You've got to get kids to school. That's true. That is a school routine. All right. Well, can I take a break? No. You can. Okay, okay. 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And also you add like the very modern computer effects and all that. Like, Lord of the Rings obviously would be the next thing that kind of like satisfied both the sort of serious cinema people and the people who wanted the big spectacle. And Frankenstein seems to be that movie this year. Yeah. I mean, these are movies right where they often get nominated for best picture. But the categories they actually win in are technical categories. Like, like, Dune, I think, right? Like Dune got nominated for a lot of things. But what it won was like best music, the sounds and photography, productions, like it was like, it was not the big, what do they call them? Like the big words. I mean, the one I will always think about is Fury Road. Yeah. So it's just like the classic one. Which is classic because also it obviously deserved best picture. Yeah. Yeah. Earlier in that night, it was winning all these technical awards. And I think a lot of us like briefly got our hopes up. It really seemed that that whole evening. And it was fun because it was a George Miller production and it was Mad Max. And so each successive round of Australians that went up to take the awards was kind of cooier than the last. Like I just kind of get weirder and weirder. Like, okay, maybe this is really something. And then of course it didn't because there is still that sort of threat, like membrane separating these big technical achievements. Like even though Dune kept winning that year, I didn't think that was going to win best picture and it didn't, you know, return of the King did win. So eventually they wore them down after three Lord of the Rings movies. Titanic obviously won. But like it is rare for these big like Avatar didn't win. And it's first, you know, well, I mean yet we don't know. Maybe maybe Avatar four will make a comeback. But that's because the craft categories, the voting bodies are specifically the people who work in the first for the nominations. Yeah. And then everyone gets to vote for, you know, the actual work. Yeah. And I do think there is a perception that, you know, it like these movies which often tend to be genre, e-genre adjacent, that they're giant spectacles and you can salute that by not like, you know, like saluting their technical expertise, but that there is somehow something less serious about them as a kind of artistic achievement. Yeah. So you wouldn't give them the like big prizes. It's why it's rare to see acting nominations for these movies like like Inna Kellan got in for the first Lord of the Rings. Obviously, the Lord is in here. Titanic got to, Titanic is kind of more like, it's not like fantasy or action. Yeah. But I think yet like like someone from Avatar was never going to get nominated for even though that first movie got nine nominations. It just wasn't going to happen. Yeah, we're something like the last Jedi, right? You're like, you can get technical nominations. You're not going to get like, yeah. I mean, Bob Ufrick deserved an Oscar nomination for the third Star Wars, but, you know, what could we do? You know, you watched like Fereo, so which kind of flamed out in general, but like Chris Hemsworth is legitimately incredible in that movie. Yeah. Like it's like this big Shakespearean performance. Also, where's the fake nose? A classic sign of good acting. That's right. Yeah. That's serious acting right there. I think he got it from Stephen Daldry, who from the hours. Yes, exactly. Constantly. It's like it's your turn now. Yes. Yeah. But I guess if you have the entire voting body is voting on like best sound, editing, or whatever, and actors make up the largest portion, is this the most important thing? There are some kind of like, I kind of wonder what they look for in terms of those categories. I assume like many of us, a lot of people in other parts of the Academy really don't know what good sound editing is. Yes. You know, like I think that a lot of these categories, yeah, you're just kind of being like, this seems like a good achievement. Like this is a place to salute your achievement, you know. There was some rubric that you could, that I you could kind of roughly follow back in the day before. So only very recently, well, so it used to be just best sound. And for years, they split it up into sound mixing and sound editing. And now it's back to just best sound for whatever reason. But it was separated, separated. There was kind of a through line where you could say, if a movie has music, if it's a musical or whatever, that will get mixing because it's balancing vocals and instruments and all that. And then the best sound editing would be like special effects. So like fully work or digital stuff like that. So I would go to like a bigger kind of spectacle movie. That was, but like that didn't even always really match up. I think a lot of times they're just like, oh, that was the fun blockbuster. So let me vote for that in this technical kind of visual effects or whatever. Yeah. Do we feel like Frankenstein is a blockbuster? I mean, it certainly is. It announces its desire to have like to operate on a grand scale, like quite early on. But like, I'll tell you this. Yes. Obviously in Netflix movie, we should say, which makes it impossible to gauge from one of the traditional metrics of a blockbuster, which is to say like, and get a theatrical release. And it was interesting because I mean, Guillermo del Toro himself on Twitter and elsewhere was kind of sort of promoting this and talking about how, you know, they were selling out all these theaters. Of course, Netflix doesn't report it. So we don't really know it. But it did kind of expand and it actually had like a real theatrical life. We have no idea what kind of money it made. And I don't think it was ever wide enough to, you know, qualify as like technically qualify as a blockbuster. But you know, a lot of people obviously watched it on Netflix. I'm sure I would be some sure. Yeah. No, I would think so. And like I was at dinner at the Savannah Film Festival. I got invited to a dinner with Oscar Isaac. And I, it was in the basement of this really great restaurant in Savannah. The dinner for train dreams the night previous was upstairs. And I was like, oh, they're put it because it was more dungeon. It was more Frankenstein and downstairs. And for whatever reason, it was me and like six other gay guy journalists. And then Oscar Isaac walks in and he's like, what's happening? But anyway, at that dinner, there was someone from Netflix with us at the dinner. And Oscar had mentioned that it was playing in theaters. And this person from Netflix was like, yeah, actually, we're going to keep it in theaters. And Oscar was like, really? I had no idea. Because he said it was doing well. Yeah. But again, we don't know any numbers. But I think it has this sort of aura of a blockbuster. And I will say, I mean, having watched it now, on Netflix as well, but seeing it at Venice, on the big screen there, it looked so much better on a big screen. Like it really does deserve a big screen. Yeah, that's interesting because Ben, you had observed me before we started this that you thought it could be looked better on a Netflix screen. Well, I, so the first time I watched it, I watched it at home as Netflix intended on my TV. On my TV. And I have an ACV. But the second time I watched it, I watched it. It also is Netflix intended on my laptop while playing a video game. And I do feel like I noticed less of the things that bothered me visually when it was on a smaller screen, specifically like the sets and the lighting just like meshed a little more when I just didn't have so much space to consider them in the video game where you at the level where Victor takes Elizabeth out to dinner or whatever. Yeah. What was that? The tree comes out and you're like, what to say? What to say? What were the visual things that bothered you? I guess the, the first time I watched it, the, the sets just like they, they're beautifully constructed. Right. But they look like sets. Yes. But they just don't look real as opposed to the costumes which I think are wonderful. Well, it's something that about this film that I find fascinating and at times trouble some, it does, you're right. I mean, it does look, I don't want to say fake, but it does look kind of like, if I'm being less generous, the Disneyland version of this world. Like there's a scene, I mean, it's just kind of a, it's not even like a particularly visually significant scene, but when he's hiding out in the cottage and there's this, there's this kind of stone wall behind him. And the stone wall, I'm watching it last night, I was like looking at, I'm like, that stone wall looks like literally like a Disneyland. The side of the tavern in Pirates of the Currie. Yeah. But I think it's partly intentional. Like I do think that Guillermo del Toro has this storybook conception of these worlds that aren't particularly lived in. Like he wants them to be kind of, like this is almost like a distancing element, this sort of picture book, kind of fantastical spaces that don't feel particularly lived in or real. Guillermo del Toro is a filmmaker who's made a number of movies I do like, but I'm always baffled by how I don't particularly gravitate to his work in the way that I would expect, because I love maximalism, right? Yeah. I love maximalism, tracking shots, elaborate, fantastical creations. I'm a palo-sarentino and Terry Gilliam dead-ender. Like I love this style of filmmaking. And you go to Can for the rest of your life. So I'm excited. Yeah. I love this style of filmmaking. And there's a lot of stuff in del Toro's films I like and a number of his films I do like, but often I watch them and I'm like, I don't feel transported into his world. He's got great visual imagination. But his situational imagination or his kind of imagination of incident is a little more mundane. Yeah. I find there's something I think I found increasingly stifling about it. Like he's clearly thought through these so obsessively. Like, as opposed to someone say like a Tim Burton where there is that kind of maximalism, but it feels, I don't know, like, it's hard to say like lived it because like Tim Burton's things are also outrageous and like maximum. But like Tim Burton is best too. Yeah. Yeah. And I kind of coherence to the world that like makes it feel like not quite lived in, but you believe that these characters are living in this world, you know? Whereas I feel oftentimes like with more recent del Toro films, like my eyes keep drifting away from the action to the backrops because he's like thought about them so much, but they are almost like overwhelming the actual content of the film. I mean, like I think I've even maybe said this on this podcast, but like with Nightmare Alley, I film that is supposed to be this kind of lurid exploration into like the dark depths of human nature and all of that. The thing that always stuck in my mind is like Cape Lanchett's incredible 1930s, like Art Deco office, you know? And I'm like, it's a beautiful thing, but that should not be the first image that sticks in my head. But it, I mean, I think that is the thing that I feel like he thought the most about. Yeah. I mean, in Frankenstein, for example, and I also say Frankenstein is not a movie I dislike. There is a lot of stuff I like. You might like it the best of it. I mean, I actually, on the whole, enjoy this film mainly because of El Ordi's performance. But, you know, early on, you know, outside the ship when the monster shows up and is just like throwing down, like throwing sailors all over the place, I mean, it's a scene that I think is probably about five minutes long, feels like 10 or longer even. And as I'm watching it, I just, my attention just starts to drift, right? And you know, like I'm watching it and he's like, you know, supposedly this is an action scene. And it happens later too, where I'm just like, oh, yeah, I'm not going to make for dinner and I'm like, you know, like, if I catch the 905, I can be home by 11. And it's like, you know, and I usually try to pay attention during these things. And the film is like, it feels like it really wants to command your attention. But like, what's happening? He's like, oh, yeah, the big guy is throwing sailors around, of course, or he's ripping his body's mouth off. And it's also like, that scene, you're supposed to be like, these are like desperate men who are really worried they're going to die out here in like, you know, on this like doomed expedition to the North Pole under this captain that they don't trust. And they're being told to work themselves to death to like dig this ship out of the ice so they can keep going. You feel like none of that desperation because, yeah. Yeah, I mean, I always think back to, I don't forget how many years ago it was, but that great New Yorker profile of Del Toro, where it's kind of documenting his getting ready to like, I don't know if he was like ready to shoot it, but like certainly in pre-preproduction for like at the mountains of madness or whatever that the lovecraft thing is. And you know, the writer of the piece goes into his like workshop in all these models and like little, you know, monster, you know, figurines and all this to all of the sort of like stuff of his head kind of made manifest. And I think that's where he excels. But I think when I actually see the movies, I feel like I'm watching little figurines on a set design model like I think he's such a good conceptualist, but then yeah, he doesn't ironically enough given that it's Frankenstein give it that spark of life that I really want. Yeah, I mean, I kind of like jokingly, but not really. I mean, I have I really like the shape of water. I really like tons of labyrinth, but like my favorite movies of his are Hellboy 2 and Blade 2. And I think that is because like to his incredible, it feels like he is freed up in those movies to feel like, you know, less of this pressure to also be like like like like and in a funny way, you know, as he's leaned into being like, I want to find these kind of like perverse dark things. I feel like there is like weirder freakier stuff in those movies because like it kind of comes out around the edges than when he has tried really hard to actually pursue it directly. Well, it's like another scene in Frankenstein early on when we see Victor's father feeding his mom the steak. He's like, you got to eat the steak, you know, the salt is good for you. And as soon as as soon as he feeds her the steak, I remember thinking, oh, now we're going to see a little droplet of blood run down. And to sure enough, that's what happens. And I'm like, this is supposed to be, I feel like this is supposed to be like a kind of a dark moment. Instead, it's kind of just a predictable moment. And they're like moments like that throughout the film that sort of I'm like, I kind of know what I'm, I know what's going to happen. He's going to lift the guy up and the brain's going to fall out like, you know, and maybe that just is a measure of how just jaded and cynical I am. I mean, I will say my wife loves Del Toro's movie. She's a horror-feene and she loves his movies. And I remember, you know, she was like, you gave a negative review to Crimson Peak. What the fuck is wrong with you? You know, like, so there are a lot of people really, you know, love this stuff. So sometimes I watched the films and I think to myself, I didn't really respond to it. And sometimes I wonder if it's just more of a me problem than anything. No, that's also not a fan of Pan's left. I mean, I want to say, like, in Crimson Peak, the part of that movie that really comes to life for me is chest-aid. Yeah. I think chest-aid is delightful in that movie and is like really giving, like, I think that she's great. Yeah, but also like giving the kind of thing that I felt like the rest of the movie was aiming for, but felt like the rest of the movie felt much more beautiful, like incredibly incredible looking, but like kind of dramatically inert to me. And I think that at the same time, you know, you talked about, you know, his conceptual mastery and watching Frankenstein, and I think I even said this in my review, as much as I like, I have a big problem with the first half of the movie. I think I skyse like, as like, totally misguessed. We can, which we can get into. And then, Alority comes in and just absolutely breathes life into the movie. But then I'm like, well, that kind of makes sense for Frankenstein. I wonder if part of this is intentional. And maybe he's kind of going too far in one direction and sort of handicapping the movie a little bit. But I feel like, I mean, the whole thing has been conceptualized so that Alority comes in. And he is, in fact, as you guys said, like the spark of life that kind of gives the movie its soul. And there's this whole question throughout the movie of where is this creature's soul. And so it kind of makes sense that like the first part of the movie kind of does not have a soul. And then the creature comes in and suddenly it has one. So there's a part of me that's like, I mean, it would be two perverse for, you know, deltoid just like sacrifices movie for that. But there is something weirdly compelling about the way Alority comes in and just basically breathes life into this thing. And I think it's interesting that a lot of at least the early stretch of part two, a lot of the ornate production design is gone. And he's the special effect, you know. And I think that ratio for me works better than the opposite, I guess. And it changes visually too. I mean, you know, first half of the movie, Oscar Isaac is often backlit, which I think is a mistake as well because then we really don't get to see much of his face. And, you know, that's kind of where the drama should live. Yeah. Right. But once it becomes the creature's story, once it becomes the monster's story, he's in light. Right. I mean, the light is shining on him and we see his face. We see all his features. And that is, I think, intentional. Like I think that is something that, you know, that's part of the film's design. And also explains why suddenly like we're seeing a face, a human face, a monster's face, but also a human face. And suddenly, like we're starting to recognize real emotions and starting to feel something. But also, I don't know. Like, Del Toro has said that he originally thought for a while that this would be two movies, you know, like the first would be the Victor Frankenstein version. And then the second would be the creature. And I just seem so disastrous to me because already that's what he had new songs for the second one though. You know, no one would like them though. They'd each get one one new song. But I do think the major weakness of this movie for me is just how much it, it leans. It is so much more interested in its empathetic to the monster. And I feel like what one, you know, this movie actually has certain points is you are the monster Victor Frankenstein. And you're like, yeah, we got that. We picked up on that. And slayer. But also like, I don't think that you know, like if you were going to make a whole separate movie just about this guy first, you have to find some soul to him as well. Like, even though he is doing these hebristic, like kind of awful, doomed things, you also have to like, like understand him in some way and sympathize with him in some way. And he is just so kind of like, off putting from the beginning that it is really difficult to latch onto him in that first half. If you're going to tell the full Frankenstein story, Frankenstein has to be your protagonist at some point, you know. And here's where, you know, I should also say, I am a fan of Kenneth Branagh's Mary Shelley's Frankenstein, a film that famously everyone hated when it came out, including me. I hated it when it came out. And kind of almost destroyed Branagh's career as like a serious director at the time. But then over the years, I've gone back to it and now I actually love it. And that movie leaves me in tears now. And we can get into sort of the performance stuff, but it does also make me think, well, you know, maybe there's a world in which, you know, 20 years from now I watch this Frankenstein. And I'm like, wait, I had it wrong. I love it now. I'm so curious about like I saw the Branagh Frankenstein with the, oh, it's like 1984, right? In theaters when I was very young. And like it is very like imagery from that. I haven't seen it since. I'm very curious to go back and watch it, but also it's so seared in my brain. Like that movie has much freaky imagery that the del Toro by far, like just like all the amniotic fluid, like the, like there's just like it does the whole bride thing, which is like kind of just like gestured to in this version, you know, like it is filled with some really dark, genuinely weird imagery. And I've never forgotten it. David, yes, watch this. Watch this. Yeah. Can you tell me what's going on? I'm trying to hit home. But it's a foolish effort because nothing hits home. Like home cooking. That's true. Oh boy, well, it's really tough man. Wait, Griffith, what are you doing? I'm trying to hit home, but nothing hits as hard as home cooking. I just need a way to beat the winter blues, not get delivery, something kind of unsatisfying. It's much easier if I could choose from maybe a hundred recipes every week, cuisines from around the world. Let's see, I have 99 right here in my desk, but that's not 100. We might have to outsource this job to someone else. How about our friends at HelloFresh? Yes, HelloFresh is a place that makes it easy to do more home cooking every year with recipes that feel good and taste delicious night after night. They got more than 35 high protein recipes each week, Mediterranean options, GLP one friendly options. They've got sustainably sourced seafood. They've got a hundred percent and about a can hormone-free chicken. They've got three times the seafood for no up to. That up to just gone. They're beefing up the seafood. They've got a grass-fed steak rib eyes. They've got seasonal produce, pairs, apples, asparagus. I love to entertain, of course, at my place full of steak. Yeah, of course, I've been there so long. My manor. I love nothing more than when I can impress guests by whipping out a great recipe that I have cooked all by myself for the dinner parties that I throw, nightly. And HelloFresh is great for that, but also great just if you want to treat yourself. Ben, any recipes you've been jamming on hard recently? Oh, yeah. Actually, I was just checking out old-school barbecue pork sloppy doughs. Oh, that's the super high-protein items. Slop it up. Yup. And we mentioned seafood. There is, of course, prep and bake, text mex, salmon tacos. That is exciting because I'm on a bit of a seafood diet right now if you catch my meaning. I see food, do you read it? No, I'm eating mostly, of course, creatures from the sea. So go to HelloFresh.com slash check 10 FM to get 10 free meals and a freeze-willing knife. That's $144.99 value. $144.99. On your third box, offer valid while supplies last. Free meals applied as discount on first box. New subscribers only varies by plan. That is HelloFresh.com slash check 10 FM, 1-0 FM. David? Yes. Hmm. Hmm. We're both stroking our chins. Okay. And narrowing our eyes and kind of staring off into the middle distance. Do you know why? I don't. Because we're trying to thoughtfully build a wardrobe. Oh, and we don't mean a piece of furniture. But that hammer and nail down, we're talking about what goes inside the wardrobe. And I'm not talking about a portal in Arnia either. I'm talking about the clubs. That's right. You know, you want premium fabrics and you want considered design. You want every. You want to mix, pull on the ass. Obviously. That's true. And they should be everyday essentials that feel effortless to wear. Yeah. Independent. Yeah. You've been to the seasons changes they are doing currently in New York. They should be items that you love so much that you would be crestfallen should some snow from Narnia creep in. Oh, yeah. Mr. Tumnus shows up offering you Turkish Delight in order to queen does that. He's like, can I borrow pants and you're like, what's that going to do to the pants? Right. You have like horse feet, which is a different like shape. Okay. Look, they've got lightweight cashmere sweaters. 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As I point out all the time, I also, my bed sheets. Yeah. Okay. My comforter, quince. And they're hitting. Yeah. Your head. I love being in bed. Falling asleep well. Right now. Go to quince.com slash check for free shipping in 365 day returns. That's a full year to build your wardrobe and love it and you will. Now available in Canada to don't keep settling for clothes that don't last. Go to qiuinc.com slash check for free shipping in 365 day returns. Quince.com slash check. Do you have a relationship with Frankenstein like as a franchise? We don't know each other that well. We've run into each other at things. That's not what I heard. Well, the monster, that's a different story. Talk about tossing sailors around. But I, my sister and I loved the Kenneth Brown version. We were probably, I was probably 11 or so or 12 maybe when it came out on video. And we rented that thing so often. We would come up from the video store when mom would be like, Frank and sine again. It was like clueless days confused. Couple other movies and then that like we thought it was so or neat and scary and grim. And there was something really visceral about it. And it was also because just to do my Frankenstein origin stories when I was a bit younger than that, my mom had gotten the Fisher price used to do these kind of chill like books on tape of classics with a sort of graphic novel comic book thing to follow along with as you listen to it. And the production value on the tapes was actually pretty good. They had like from what I remember good actors. I had one of these. And we had Frankenstein and we had that in 2001 or maybe a night or whatever. But, but that Frankenstein was really the favorite because it was so grim and gothic and scary. And like people got strangled and a kid got killed, you know. And we thought we were very mature and it scared the hell out of me. The illustration of the monster was terrifying. But that was firmly like Victor made a mistake but good and compelling protagonist monster tragic but also bad. And that was a much clearer sort of and maybe it's not as nuanced or interesting but like that was a Frankenstein I could really respond to. And I think the Brana version does that as well, I guess. Yeah. I mean, I didn't I don't have a very storied relationship with Frankenstein as a kind of concept monster franchise. I was always much more of a vampire girl obviously like as a, as a, you know, middle school and teenage golf girl. Like it was like six years. I mean, we're lace and eyeliner things that Frankenstein can't do obviously. Well, well, Frankenstein, if you're a Frankenstein, that aluminum and you're going to do other stuff and you have a bolt through your neck, we all know this. You also can't be goth and scared of fire. That's not really. Yeah, it just doesn't work. How the candles, you've got to light so many candles if you're goth. So yeah, I, but I mean, I, I saw like the 1931 version like I feel like when I was in a major or something and that that also felt very seared into my mind. And I think is that classic like bolts and neck like is that that or no, that is that love? It's a car love. And I also, I think it has like something and I, we should talk about this also in comparison to the, the kind of like Oscar Isaacs kind of like ego driven kind of also in cell, you know, Victor Frankenstein, the, you know, monster in this is like so much more just like both like handsome and also like just like wronged, much, you know, like, like, and kind of, like not totally blameless. He does commit a lot of acts of violence, like not the same kind of acts of violence, like the famously in the, and the James Vale, well, version, there is that scene where the monster, you know, runs into this little girl by the side of the water and the little girl is showing him to like throw flowers in the water and then it becomes clear that he, rather we know flowers like throws little girl in the water and she drowns. Like it is such a great uneasy element, right? Where you're like, you have this creation who is not necessarily actively malicious, but is also frightening, right? Like even without knowing, like he, and I think, you know, to remove that element from this version of the monster, you know, Del Toro is like, that's his big thing, right? I love my, like the monsters, like the real monsters are always the ones who look like the monster. He's like the, the black sheep rejected, you know, art, art, art, a son were a picture of like, I mean, I think he like went to Skidmore or something. Like it's, yeah. Okay, I mean, like it's another thing about, you know, my, my love for Hellboy 2 and Blade 2 is that he, and I think he has even said as much. He has done like test runs of this type of character before, right? Like both played by Luke Goss in these movies. Like, what does it say? The Reaper, was it? Reaver? I can't remember where I'm played to. The villain who like, you know, is also pallid looking and is the, turns out to be the son, right? Like the kind of estranged son who was experimented on by his vampire Lord Father and is resentful and, you know, now wants to kind of destroy him. And then the Prince Nuata in, in Hellboy 2 also, this kind of alabaster looking resentful, estranged son who, you know, is mad at his dad. He definitely, this idea has been sticking around. And I don't know how much it is related actually to Frankenstein versus just like these ideas that he wants to deal with and like has been grappling with multiple times in his work that he is now bringing to Frankenstein. But like, yes, the, apparently extremely pale, but beautiful, resentful son who in this case finally becomes like the flat out hero, not just the antagonist, right? Yeah. And an action hero. And I think going back to the tossing, the sailors around part like when I saw the trailer for this, I was like, oh, no, he's like super strong. Like it just like, it feels, now it looks like a superhero movie. And like I just, I think I just wanted it like a Frankenstein. And it's crazy to say this about the brand version, but like lower to the ground or like feeling a bit more human. And this just feels like, you know, in trying to get us to see the awesome power of this creation, he kind of overstated or something. Could some of these be like Netflix notes? I wonder, I don't know how much like, I mean, the question of how much Netflix gives notes is like an eternal one. But I think with the author, they're kind of chosen authors. I don't know that they give any. Well, cause the monster in this is supposed to be Vecta's brother, right? So eventually, yeah, okay. It's gonna be a sitcom, though. I don't think Netflix gives notes to Del Toro. No, especially at this point, because he's done. Not so many, though. Is that opening scene is like a classic Netflix opening scene where they're like, we have to start with the action. Like, you know, we have to keep people's attention. That's true, but it's also, I mean, it makes perfect sense of the story to start that way. But yeah, and my bank is not just tell very quickly, my very first introduction to it was, we had, you know, before we moved to the US and discovered videotapes, we had super eight millimeter films of different movies and never a full feature. But like, we had a lot of like three minutes of a Disney movie that sort of thing. And then we had like the last cheering cheering cheering cheering cheering cheering cheering cheering cheering cheering cheering cheering cheering cheering cheering cheering cheering cheering cheering cheering cheering cheering cheering cheering cheering cheering cheering cheering cheering cheering cheering cheering cheering cheering cheering cheering cheering cheering cheering cheering cheering cheering cheering cheering or Hardy, like, you know, there was a girl in the water. Yeah. But so that was kind of my introduction to it. And I don't even remember when I finally saw the, you know, the full James Whale movie. I mean, it was, you know, still fairly young, but, you know, young Frankenstein. I probably saw young Frankenstein before I saw the full James Whale Frankenstein, you know. Yeah. I, so I don't know how, how much do we feel like this, like Del Toro has said, like the Frankenstein was like this incredibly formative thing for him, like the James Whale movie, the book. Do we feel like this is him ultimately rendering the vision he's been trying to make the whole time? I think so. I mean, I do feel, I mean, he's been working on it for so long. I'd be shocked if it wasn't. I mean, it does feel like this is the movie he wanted to make. I mean, the film is incredibly controlled, right? I mean, it's a, it's a remarkable display of his vision, I think. It's like, I have problems with a lot of it, but there's nothing in it feels like a misstep on his part. Like it all, like every decision feels like, oh, that's exactly the thing he wants to do. He didn't run out of time or would not get the shot he wanted. Like, yeah, it feels like he got what he was. Oh, yeah, absolutely. Yeah. And I think that that's maybe, but maybe his empathy towards the monster or his, you know, ability to relate to that character. Maybe it's sort of backfires a little bit in the fact that his, his vision of Victor Frankenstein is just so dull, right? I mean, you know, it's a very big broad performance by Oscar Isaac, but Oscar Isaac, as far as I'm concerned, is not the kind of actor who gives that kind of big broad performance. Oscar Isaac, I think of as a much subtler actor. Like, I love him in something like the car counter, right? Or I was at the most dangerous year. Most violent year. Yeah. Like, I think he's, he's very good in those kind of slow burn parts where you're just kind of watching his face and just kind of watching things dawn and register on his face. Him sort of running around yelling like a crazy person. He's just a lot less interesting that way. In contrast to Kenneth Branagh, who is the king of big, bellowing, what are you talking about? Yeah. Come on. I thought a lot. I mean, like a great fit for playing a character who is kind of like this egotistical, you know, like demanding of a... I don't understand. I don't understand. I know. Kenneth Branagh. Yeah. I mean, I don't know. Like, and this is a movie, this Frankenstein is a movie where like, you know, Victor, like literally falls in love with his mother, like the same, like me, I got to be playing like his beloved mother. He's fixated on. And then the woman he like sees his brother fiance who he's instantly like smitten with, you know, like that should be a kind of like grand and like slightly, like instead, it just feels like, I don't know nothing. It feels so, it feels so programmed. Yeah. The eyes, I think, is weird because I saw him on stage at the public theater in a hamlet, like God, it was almost a decade ago at this point, I think. And he was so incredible that like, I think my headline was like, he's the best actor of his generation. I think he's been so good in the movies you mentioned, Bill. And I like when an actor goes big. And so I thought I would be kind of exciting to see Oscar Isaac do it here. And yet it just does not work. There's something a bit too, too kind of cliche about it or something like the British accent is sort of not work. I don't know. Like, Alson, what do you think? I think, I also think Oscar Isaac is an incredible actor. I do think, I part of it is that I think he's a little too in tune to the idea that this character is supposed to be this like, dislikable. I mean, like so much of what's on the page with that character is already tilting him towards Villainy, you know, like his fixation on this woman who like gives no real kind of reception, right? Like he out like and. She's never even like remotely. No. And he like at a certain point like even braids her for like, you know, like not basically being like giving him a chance. Yeah. Yeah. No, I mean, really. I mean, that's in the text, right? And then yeah, like his the ways in which he instantly kind of turns on his creation, right? Like, like, you know, in this, I mean, it's not a subtle screenplay, but like, you know, his father is so incredibly hard on him. And he feels like he is just not the right son that his father wants. And whereas his brother, you know, he seems like the perfect child. And then immediately his own surrogate son, when his surrogate son is not like developing at the rate that he wants, he's like, you're useless to me. Like, you know, like, what is a disaster? Like, why don't I even do this? I don't want you and becomes like abusive and awful to him. So like he's there's so much on the page that is villainous and I feel like Isaac just leans into that so much. I mean, it was interesting to me to read about Dottoro saying he wanted to cast this version of Victor Frankenstein, not just like as a mad scientist, but as like a kind of rock star, right? And like that, the clothing was supposed to be inspired by like 60s and 70s. Like, well, the hat that one had. Yeah. He does his presentation. But I do not think that comes through in the performance. I think the performance like tilts more peevish until it's much more off putting. And I don't think that there is, I think there's a reason that he latched onto that. But I think it makes the character so difficult to, to attach to in any way ever. And I think if you're going to lean into the rock stardom that you want to be, like, oh, this character is so compelling. But like the one time we see him kind of performing for an audience, right? Of like all of the medical establishments being like, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, the same people who told Charlie Hunnam, he couldn't go to the Amazon, you know, it's the same exact. Exactly. They're just waiting there the whole time. Like, it's a little known fact about old or England is that they just had a guy, a bunch of guys in wigs waiting around to be like, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, when young men came into challenge their preconceptions. Yeah, but I mean, like that, it doesn't feel like he is performing in this way to be like, look at how incredible I am, you know, all from the beginning, it's clear like he's not, he's like, you know, already going to be driven out. Like there's no sense of like why he would have like followers or like why people, like he's just from the beginning, such a kind of outlier and so off-putting. Yeah. We should feel sorry for this character. And we really don't. And we should wonder what he's up to. I mean, that's, that's, to me, that's Oscar Isaacs great powers that you look at him. And I mean, when he's acting and this is, you know, when he's, when he's being subtle or understated, you just sort of see the emotions kind of dance across his face and you start to wonder where he's going with this. And in his best roles, you know, that's, that's, that's marvelous. And here there's just no shading, no dimensionality, no sense of unpredictability or anything. He's just, you know, he's just kind of this like screaming guy and it's a, you're watching because we've seen, I mean, you know, the movie is two creation sagas, right? I mean, we see what how Victor became the person he is. And then we see what happened with the monster. And as a result, like we have all this backstory of him, we should feel like we understand something about this man. And we don't, we really don't. He becomes progressively more and more like one dimensional, you know? Yeah. I mean, I thought about inside Lew and Davis, which, you know, is like incredible movie and has an incredible Oscar. I guess it is. And it is one that I think bears some relation in a little bit to this character of this, you know, he is someone who is like yearning for this kind of like, for this ability to chase his like creative artistic dream and realize his vision and to kind of like also be recognized, you know, for his genius. And never has that. And it's also a character who does a lot of very dislikeable things, you know, but like you have no trouble understanding that character. And I've no trouble, I think like empathizing with him even when he can be like a piece of shit. And his Hamlet was so good for that reason. But it was like so human, even when he's acting, well, play acting is crazy or being petal into a failure, whatever. Like you got the moment you felt so sad for him the whole time. And that's, that's hard to do, you know, and I've always had issues with Lew and Davis. Because I find that movie like I'm into it. And then it gets, it just gets a little too prickly and it puts me off or something. But the more I watch that movie, the more I appreciate what Isaac is doing in it. Yeah. And I think that there is something missing at the core of this Frankenstein, which is to be like the idea of wanting to, to best death to be like death is something we should not have to put up with. And this is born out of like my own ego, but also my like terrible loss of the only person in my life who like, you know, like showed me love and softness. Like it should be those two forces like, you know, should be present in, and you don't really know. Like I don't think in this movie, watch them and be like, I know why you're so obsessed with doing this impossible thing. You know, like I'm trying to beat God. Like I don't really know in this. It's entirely an academic kind of exercise for him. Yeah. I mean, Isaac can do ambitious. He can do longing. Like these are things that are within his powers as an actor to really convey and, and make impactful. It's almost like Del Toro didn't trust him or Del Toro had like his visual style and his vision of the movie in hand before he cast that actor, you know, and I think, I think it's a miscalculation on that part. Yeah. And I also like between Star Wars and this. It's like, I just would love him to ask Isaac to get back to the smaller stuff. I mean, he did do with a play a couple of years ago that transferred to Broadway that was, I thought it was fine. He was good in it. But like I just, I'm, I'm yearning for more of the history, you know, most violent year, Lewin Davis kind of, you know, X Machina. X Machina is incredible. Yeah. Another, another, yeah. And that's not in this range. Like he's not too, too subtle in that. But, you know, he did that big Christian bail epic about, was it about Turkey and Armenia, right? Oh, yeah, yeah. The promise, you know, like he's done kind of different sized things. But I just want him to, I want to see that sort of more present, accessible Oscar Isaac again. I don't know. It's been a while. It feels like, can you talk about me, Agatha in this? I think she looks great. She does look, I mean, she has an incredible face. I do feel like, I don't know, that performance is like almost just like, though, like, you know, like, but when she's wearing like a feather headdress, I mean, all of her like incredible veils, like, like, and the color she's wearing, I think are amazing. But, you know, when she gives, what she gives the speech about how she and the butterfly are basically the same. These like strange creatures, but like it was like, I just, I feel like I'm like, that's every role you play me Agatha is like, you know, like that. You're like, I'm like the, the delicate, weird butterfly. Like, again, it also feels expected. It's like if Del Toro makes a friends movie, of course, me Agatha plays, you know, it just, it felt obvious in a way, kind of like the brains falling out of the head or whatever. I kind of expected exactly that performance. And that's what's what's given to us. What do we think of crystal faults, though? Well, I mean, having just seen him in look, but someone's Dracula. Yes. I think he wasn't acting of that though. He had just got by the set. That's right. He was like, oh, you guys are where we have common cause today. Yeah. I'm taking this monster. I on second rewatch, I think Waltz is good. You know, I mean, he's doing his Waltzie thing, but it really works here. And I also think that that desperate, almost final scene where it's revealed that he has syphilis and he delineates like how it's going to progress and it's going to be horrible. Like that to me is the sort of raw, squalid, squirming, human, you're dying for from that whole first half of the movie. Yeah. I mean, something I think Del Toro pointed out this comparison himself, which I thought was funny, which is like that there is an aspect to which, you know, Victor is the director and Waltz is playing like the studio. Yeah. And it's being like, especially in this case of this project, like his like Del Toro's dream project where they're like, you can have all the resources you want, but I will ask you for this one later. Maybe it will involve streaming. Yeah. But yeah, sometimes you're also a simple. So it's correct. Sometimes it's also you're like, maybe, maybe you don't want to get all the resources you want in exchange for one thing. There's always a catch. Yeah, that's well. That's an interesting point. I like that. I just, my problem is like, and it's not just with this movie, but maybe especially with this movie, but like, there are times I don't like some of the seriality of Del Toro's world. And in this, I'm just like, oh, so then Victor moves into Crimson Peak, like that house with the create, like the creepy staircase, the circular window up in the attic. Like I've seen that a zillion times, not just in Del Toro movies. Like it just, it didn't feel inventive. And so I didn't really know why he was doing this. And then when you get to the monster and that version of it and that performance, you're like, oh, okay. So there was a distinct idea of how to do this. But yeah, like you guys have already said, like that the first half of the movie feels like sort of prof just kind of going through the motions to get to where he wants to go. That's a problem when it's an hour and a half of the movie. Yeah. I think also I don't know. I think now if I just going to keep steering the conversation back to Hellboy to I mean, but I think it is dominated for best picture this year. So I think like you look at, you know, this kind of like comic book monster in this case, comic book hero, but you're like, okay, he is a giant red guy, you know, has like a stone hand, has horns. Is the son of the devil made, may or may not just talk about Kenneth Brown on this way. This is getting ridiculous. Back to his work as an actor, you know, may destroy the world someday. Like has like genuine kind of like baggage in terms of the idea of actually being the hero. There is an aspect of the allordy Frankenstein monster here where I'm just like, it's almost like a, like a kind of stereotype of like a YA fantasy thing where you're like, oh, it's so awful that I'm like, oh, these both worlds, I'm just super strong and I'm immortal. And I'm tall and like, you know, just striking looking and everyone hates me because of that, you know, you're like kind of like, I don't know that your problems are real here. I like, you know, like I get sorted into Grivendor. Yeah, I'm like, I need like real discomfort, a real kind of like, he does from the reason, you know, like it's funny. Like when he first goes out into the real world and then he like has that moment with the kind of like the deer or whatever, and that people like shoot at him immediately. And we were like, why are they shooting at him? He mostly looks like a guy wearing a cloak. Like there's no reason they would get him and immediately be like, what is that monster? They see Prometheus. They know what things that look like that can do. Well, there's that shot of him waking up in that, you know, in that puddle of water with like the castle burning. Yeah, what I call the Prometheus shot. Yeah, it is. But that is, but that's the moment when the movie like comes to life for me. Because suddenly I saw that shot and I'm like, I'm up like, okay, what's happening next? Because it felt like such a dramatic change in both tone and also lighting. Yeah. That at that moment I thought, okay, wait, something interesting is about to happen and it does. But you're right. I mean, the thing I keep thinking, sorry, this is just going to turn into just a giant reclamation project for Kenneth Bernhausen. I can style that movie. Still widely aided by people. But, you know, Deniro in that film is so pathetic, right? And that that that pay those that that's smallness is actually like works really well, especially contrasted with, you know, Brandna was kind of bellowing performance. And here, I mean, again, all right, it is fantastic. But there is like the cards are kind of stacked like it is kind of like, well, of course you're going to love this guy, you know. Yeah, and one of the people looking after him, the younger woman on the farm is Lauren Collins from to grassy the next generation. I mean, I mean, this is teen royalty all grown up. So that's another way that he's trying to win your affection. It's funny that even, you know, Frank inside himself is like jealous of his supposedly, you know, Nightmareish Monster creature because he's like, you know, like the girl I like, she likes you more. Yeah. And I mean, that's an element that is like underplayed in the movie, but is definitely like. So Frank and signs are real Mary Sue, basically, you're saying that. I know, you know. David. Yes. Ah, who's that? No, David. In fact, I see why you were confused. It sounded like a doorbell or perhaps even the ringing of a phone to introduce an ad read character. But in fact, it's on Adread character. It's an exciting new ad read prop. My hand chimes. OK. What? Oh. Then why are you ringing those? Well, I'm bringing my ceremonial chimes to announce our new sponsor on the podcast. Chime. Chime. Listen, chime is changing the way people bank. Not like the soul school banks that charge you when you overdraft charge you have to with monthly fees. Help for you. Not the one percent. Yeah. 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They've got a new card that unlocks safer credit building cashback. That's the sound of me running the card against the chimes. Again, no annual fees, no interest, no strings attached. You're going to get 1.5% cashback on eligible chime card purchases. There are strings attached to the chimes when you get the structure of how chimes work. When you get qualifying direct deposits, okay? My younger self would have been it for this. I needed something like this back when I was over the rough. And once in a while, little day in it with those fees. The adventure is a little David. You could say I was a little bit odd in those days. You were a little odd. A lot. Okay. I was OD over drafting. It took a while to get there. And you know what? It could have meant some other things. And I'm glad I did it. Good, good. Chimes not just smarter banking. It's the most rewarding way to bank. Join the millions who are already banking fee-free today. It takes just a few minutes to sign up. Head to chime.com slash blank check. That is chime.com slash blank check. Chimes and financial technology company, not a bank. Banking services, a secured chime visa credit card, and my pay line of credit provided by the bank or bank NA or stride bank NA. My pay eligibility requirements apply and credit limit ranges $20 to $500. Optional services and products may have fees or charges. See chime.com slash fees info, advertised annual percentage yield with chime plus status only. Otherwise 1.00% APY applies. No main balance required. Chime card on time payment history may have a positive impact on your credit score. Results may vary. See chime.com for details and applicable terms. To bring this back around to the Oscars, like this is, I think, like, obviously, like this incredible feat of production design, of costume design, of like all of these things, do we see this as a movie that is going to do well in those categories? Or does this movie that like is going to get nominated, it got nominated for a lot of things, but then doesn't end up winning anything. Cineurs is nominated for a lot of these same things. Yeah, that's the thing. Is that it's the other kind of really like, jogger, not blockbuster, but that it also has the political weight behind it and these great performances. It's just like what's for a live as a movie. Yeah, yeah. I don't know. I think that, look, the Academy clearly really likes Del Toro something about, I think I mean, Pan's Lab, I think, was like the sort of like broke the day I'm a little bit and then obviously, shape of water performed so incredibly well. Nightmare Alley managing to get a best picture nomination. Yeah, and that movie was pretty, you know, typically received as something. So I would be surprised in a way if it went home with nothing. It's just a matter of like where is Cineurs or something else a little bit weaker, you know. Well, here's my other question. I feel like there was this moment, especially with shape of water, which again, it's a movie I like a lot, but I think is a movie that at the time everyone was like, can you believe this movie about a lady who like has sex with a fish man? Like that's going to win best picture. But it is actually like really not that wild. It's a sentimental love story, period. So remake of Splash. Yeah, exactly. Yeah, we want Splash. Last year I was like, wait, this is the shape of water. Yeah, right down to this. I've always read that Sally Hopkins is our modern tummings. Yeah, you have often said that. I've been very confused until the end. And now it's only it makes sense. But you know, shape of water is supposed to be like the wild freaky choice. And I think it is like, but it is like I think much gentler and like actually, I mean, it is a kind of beauty in the beast story, right? But without even like the rage, like the monster in this is like in many Adele Poro thing, actually like the kind of most sympathetic and not miscalculated creature of the mall. And aside from you know, like that one hand gesture that Sally Hopkins gives to explain how she and the fish man had their night together, it really, I think it doesn't get as freaky as maybe everyone would like to be like from the description. I wonder if like maybe there was this if I don't know if it's Del Toro seeing himself that way, but there was this moment where Del Toro was going to be the kind of like the freaky side of the Academy. And like now actually I feel like your ghost length almost is like much more like bringing the genuine like freaky stuff. You know, we talked about that last time. Zero sentiment, you know, social message. But like he's like really kind of like pushing harder in terms of like doing weird stuff. Like where does that leave Del Toro? Is he like a safer choice? Well, he's kind of, I mean, he's almost like kind of this establishment choice at that point. I mean, especially because he's one and has had the kind of there is the kind of Oscar gauntlet, career gauntlet that you go through it, you win and then you become, you get nominated for things that people didn't expect you to be nominated. I mean, Spielberg is kind of a classic example or he just, he's just there every year, you know. And so he's, yeah, he's become kind of the establishment, but at the same time it's, it is an interesting sign of how far we've come, you know, the gear model Toro is like Oscar royalty at this point. Like he makes a movie and it's kind of like, yeah, it'll probably get nominated for best picture at this point no matter what it is, you know, whether it's a remake of Frankenstein. I mean, it's not that common for, you know, these types of films to get nominated. I mean, I think probably a couple that would have loved if it was 30 something years ago. Oh, yeah, yeah. I mean, I, yeah, a couple is a great example of that. I mean, you know, I mean, I love Bram Soakers Dracula, but that's another film that at the time, a lot of people, including me, were kind of, I was a little over the top, this, not all, I sure all these performances are doing what you want them to. I saw that in the theaters when I was about nine years old, with my friend, because his parents were going to see, I believe they went to go see the Don Johnson, Rebecca DeMorne, Thriller, Guilty as Sin, and they were like, that's too grown up for you. So we'll have them. We'll buy you tickets to Bram Soakers Dracula. We'll have this younger couple, like, like, you know, young adults escort you in as if they're your, like, babysitters or whatever. And then so the ushers won't kick you out or whatever. And about 30 minutes into the couple of movie, I was like, I think I'm too young for this. Like, I just sort of almost like, I mean, I sat through the whole thing, but yeah. Um, I hit like, looked up, um, it was reference somewhere. I looked up the, uh, what was described, uh, on YouTube and the clip as like, um, Dracula bites Lucy. And someone in the comments, comments was like, Oh, is that what we're calling it? Yeah. Yeah. That is a scene I should probably not have seen when I, when I, the age I did. Um, Bill, how are you feeling about, I mean, I know that Oscars aren't your like number one, you know, interest in the movie world, but like, how are you feeling about, like, this year's race? Like, you know, we had joked at the top of the show that we were a, we were a little hard on train dreams and maybe a little less hard on hamnet. But we had some critiques. Are do you feel like, do you like the 10 or their favorites among them? I like the 10. I mean, I, I, I don't think there's a single movie on there that I would say I don't like. Okay. That's right. Um, I mean, there are films that I'm more ambivalent, and bivalent about than others. Um, my top four movies this year were, uh, train dreams, caught by the tides, hamnet and f1. So, hey, so you did really well. I did well, you know, and, and it's funny because I feel like the three nominees in that four are like, um, you know, I've all become like villains of one, you know, one form or another the season, um, with f1, everyone assuming that f1 somehow took the place of it was just an accident. When clearly it was Bougone, yeah, that took the place of it. I would agree. Yeah. Um, but, uh, yeah, you know, what was your, what was your kind of response to either the hamnet or the train dreams backlash? Is there any train dreams backlash? There was briefly. Oh, yeah, I, I, I, I, I'm a lot of cool about it. The train dreams wars. Yeah. When it first showed up on Netflix, there was this initial wave of people kind of hating on it, but also kind of being baffled by, by the love for this was before it was nominated. Which I thought was actually delightful. I mean, even though I absolutely adore train dreams, I was like, this is, this is kind of the power of Netflix, their ability to like get a movie out in front of everybody. And even if it's just for a weekend, get them talking about it in a way, especially with a film like train dreams, because you look at what the fate of train dreams would have been otherwise. It would have been picked up by a smaller distributor. It would have played IFC Center. It probably would not have ever had any point become like a trending topic. And that rubber banded pack of Magnolia DVD screeners, which they don't even send anymore, which I still, I mean, I cherished those. But so, you know, like ultimately Netflix buying that movie turned out well for it, even though, you know, a lot of us were kind of not upset, but a little concern when, I mean, my literally, I think the last line of my review was, please for the love of God, don't watch this movie on your, on your phone. Yeah. Because they had just bought it when I reviewed it. But, and they did right by it. They did put it in theaters, you know, I wasn't around for that long, but they did put it in theaters. It did play, I'm saying with Frankenstein, you know, I feel like they, they're kind of coming around to the idea of putting movies in theaters, but who knows what, you know, you said it was your number one. It was my number one. What, what, what, did you like about it? I mean, I respond to these stories that kind of try and take in a large swath of someone's life. I mean, it reminds me a lot of, you know, other films I enjoy, like, you know, Barry Lyndon, which is probably my favorite film of all time. And Frankenstein. Frankenstein. But I love the fact that it's, it's a film built out of relatively mundane details that, you know, leads to an overpowering conclusion or an overwhelming conclusion. And I think, I mean, it's probably, of the films I've reviewed this year, it's probably the one I've gotten the most feedback on from people. A lot of people have really loved it. The question is, you know, why don't you love it? Well, yeah, I mean, we, I think that I, I appreciate a lot of the aesthetics. I've seen it three times and I, and I think that I started to see a little bit of some, synthetic fabric in there, like, like the way that it's trying to get us to feel things and think about America and life and, you know, life in the world. But when that backlash happened and your piece came out, I was very, even though I wasn't the hugeest fan of that movie, I was very much on your side because I thought the critiques of it. And this is people snarking on Twitter, you know, which is, you know, but like it's the voiceover makes it like a credit card commercial or whatever. And I was like, well, that's not really true. I think the voiceover is really nice in that movie, but yeah. I said my piece. It was interesting. I wrote another piece. I wrote for the Yale review about films that are influenced by Terence Malik. I mean, looking at the kind of the whole, you know, last 20, 30 years of films influenced by Terence Malik. And that was one of them. I mean, it was pegged to that and hamnet actually. And while there are, you know, clearly Malik like touches in the film, I found it fascinating that people said that the voiceover was Malikian, which isn't like it at all. You know, Terence Malik does first-person voiceovers very limited when it's streamed consciousness. And very fallible voice or he does not do kind of omniscient narration. And I found it fascinating that people kept saying, oh, this is just like Terence Malik like this voiceover. I'm like, actually, it isn't. It's more kind of the the Juligim model of a voiceover. Yeah, I didn't hear Will Patten ever say, Father, Mother, you always wrestle in me or whatever. Yeah, you know, that didn't happen one time. Yeah, I think I'll be a mud doctor, you know. But at the same time, you know, he's become kind of synonymous with voiceovers. So maybe that's what it is. But, you know, I think it's a beautiful film. I do think, you know, the difference is with the novella that people have talked about and how the novella is a lot fornier and more kind of politically complicated. That's all well taken. I actually think that by making this character less complicit and less guilty, but still racked by guilt, I actually think in a weird way, it's more politically damning, right? I mean, the idea of kind of a person who watches this stuff happen doesn't partake in it, but still feels the guilt of what he's witnessed and what he's failed to intervene against, even though he couldn't have done anything. We've just gotten shot along with everyone else. But that to me, I think is one on one level, very relatable, but also on on another level, you know, like I said, incredibly damning, right? I mean, and it's a feeling that I think a lot of people sense. And even though train dreams is not ultimately all about that, I mean, it's about a number of different things and the idea of feeling like, you know, there's some kind of, that you've been condemned, carmically almost, which feeds into both the, you know, both what happens with the migrant workers, but also with the idea that they're just like tearing down these swarfs and they become, you know, later on in the film, when you see kind of how mechanized the whole logging operation has become and how careless, you know, you feel bad for him and you feel bad for the other old timers in the way that they've kind of been cast aside. But at the same time, this is the world they've created, you know, I mean, they were kind of, you know, the vanguard of this. So how complicit are they? I think all these are all interesting things that the film, I think tackles in a, in a fascinating and very compelling way, but obviously different from the novella. And I know a lot of people have issues with that, but, you know, well, unfortunately, you've now given yourself a new role in that every time we're negative about a, about a movie, you have to come to weeks later. And for the rebuttals, that was, I appreciate that, Bill, thank you. We're going to put you on the spot one more time. All right, let's do it. Defend Hamnet in five minutes or less. Could I like, by the way, I like, yeah, I do. I think people, I think I maybe didn't sound as positive about it as I meant to be. The ending makes me sob. So that's an effective movie. I'm dead inside. So you're dead inside. Well, it's okay. Yeah. I mean, again, a film that absolutely wrecked me, reduced me to tears. I've seen it like four times at this point every time I cry harder. I think, I think it's beautifully done. I love, again, actually, you know, as I was saying, it kind of has that same cadence, not quite the same cadence as Train Dreams, but it does have that sort of, just marches forward with these lives. You know, I love the novel too. And the novel is, I mean, it's like, the film is like faithful and somehow also not because the novel doesn't have a linear structure. It just keeps coming back to the day of Hamnet's death and it kind of just circles that. And I remember when I went into the film, I thought to myself, how the hell are they going to turn this into a movie? Like, this is going to be just absolutely, you can't just keep going back to this child dying. It'll be horrible. And obviously, they don't do that. They kind of forge forward, you know, because the novel doesn't feel like a book about the writing of Hamlet. The film does feel like a film about the writing of Hamlet, which is, you know, I mean, it's my favorite play, you know, widely considered by a lot of people, you know, the greatest play in the English language, although, you know, others may disagree. But the fact that they would take on a topic like this, that the fact that they would say, okay, we're going to do the creation of Hamlet. I thought that was just like brazen and beautiful. And I think, I mean, to me, it works really well. I love the fact that there are two versions of the To be or not to be speech in it, two very different versions of it as if to kind of say, hey, you know, everybody has their own version of Hamlet. That final moment, I mean, is probably the best depiction of catharsis I've ever seen. I just saw a film that was at Sundance where they're talking about catharsis and how catharsis works. And I just kept thinking what Hamlet is like a perfect example of, you know, like this is what it is. That one-to-one connection is, you know, is representative of what great artists supposed to do. Yeah, so I agree with a lot of that. I just do wish that it had ended with Hamlet chasing his father across the Arctic. I think that would have really been a lot more powerful. And that's how most movies end. So I feel like maybe it's good that everyone's in the mall and makes it up. Yeah. Yeah. What's the Shakespeare play with Exit Chase by Bear? Winterstale. Yeah. Yeah. I played a guard in that in my teenager. Well, speaking of great art, Richard Lawson's doppelganger, the AI Richard Lawson. Yeah. So we'll get, last week, Ben found my alternate, what existence, right? Yes. There's an AI journalist named Richard Lawson who I think they're just trying to make me kind of- Well, they're clearly just like- Well, like, this is a thing where like, like these slopsites will like put things under a byline. And it won't be claiming to be this Richard. Right. But it will be like Richard Lawson and they have a whole bio and a picture of someone and they're clearly trying to get like SEO traffic. Oh my god. Well, there are, at any given time, there are thousands of people searching my name on Google. I'm assuming, right? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Well, the other Richard Lawson was writing about the Super Bowl. Sure. Yeah. That makes sense. Because I wasn't launching it. So my doppelganger had to. So the other Richard Lawson has already today published nine pieces. Yeah, no, I'm amazing. I'm incredible. That's the Richard Lawson. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I've reviewed so many things. This is the AI Richard Lawson like to finish my weathering. Yeah. Yeah. Some of the AI somehow, like, names number one, the K-bush song. Like, well, it is not a bad choice. So I thought it might be a good opportunity to talk about some of the Super Bowl. Oh, yeah. Collaborations, new trailers and stuff that. Yeah. Well, there was the surprise trailer for the adventures of Cliff Booth. Yeah, which Fincher directed Tarantino Written. Yes. And I got to say when I read about that movie, I kind of didn't believe it was actually a real thing for like the better part of a year or whatever. Neither did I. And then I watched the, and then I kind of started dreading it when it became clear that it was real. But I don't know, the trailer. The trailer looked amazing. I actually missed the trailer. Oh, okay. And they haven't put it online officially yet. So they've been really neat online. Is it like, is it officially? Yeah, it's, it looks fun. It looked great. I, yeah, I don't know. I mean, I loved Lensiphone at Iron Hollywood. I love David Fincher. I was, I've been worried about his like, weird tenure with Netflix, which seems to have led to making, I don't know, I mean, odd, sometimes likeable projects, but like with them increasingly being like, that's too much money. You can't have it. So like, yeah, for Tarantino to be like, here's a script and Netflix to be like, okay, have a lot of money. Brad Pitt will be in it. I'm all for it. Elizabeth DeBikki is in it being tall as previously discussed. That's right. That's right. One of one of her many strong suits. Yeah, I don't know. I thought it looked great. Did any of you watch any of the ads that were like directed by big directors? Because I kind of, I think the Yorgos one. I missed that one. I missed Yorgos. I heard were there multiple Yorgos directed one? There was a Yorgos. There was a Tica YTZ one. He's been directing a lot of ads. Yeah. Was there anyone else? Probably. I mean, everyone, there's, there were a lot of big actors also in this. Remember, there was a Dunkin Donuts thing? That was an atrocity. Yeah. Wait, what was that? What was that? I walked in. Oh god. It was, well, D-Aged versions. It was kind of a good will hunting thing, except that the Matt Damon character was played by Ben Affleck in this case with like a bad wig. But it was all kind of characters from 80s, 90s sitcoms. Ted Danson was there from Cheers. Oh wow. I mean, it was, it was horrifying. And everybody's face kind of looked like it was sort of floating. Yeah. It was like a bad, de-aging. I don't even know what the point of it was ultimately other than at the end Tom Brady showed up. I was watching with my son and his friend and they had no idea who any of these people were except for Tom Brady. They're like, what's Tom Brady doing? With all those randos. Yeah. Well, so apparently, so Tyga YTT did the Pepsi ad, which I do not remember. It's like Jones did the Ben Stiller ad for Instacart, which I vaguely remember. Joseph Kaczynski, your guy. He did the Kurt Russell, I guess Louis Pullman one. I didn't see that one either. I believe it's Kurt Russell in an ad for Louis Pullman. Yeah. He's like, I think it's like slightly confusing because it's like Louis Pullman is like, oh no, if you always have to, like, you're the worst skier of the friend group, so you always have to buy the round at the bar. Oh, okay. And then Kurt Russell turns up the bar and is like, I can help you with that. I can train you how to ski. But then you're kind of like, it feels like it should be either why it Russell or Bill Pell, like, you know, you're like, there's a celebrity dad, like, kind of like weirdness there that you're like, and then your girls, I guess, did two ads, Squarespace and GrubHub. Oh, the George Clooney GrubHub. Yeah. So people were mad about that. I missed that one. But yeah, do you remember when like, it used to be embarrassing for stars to do? Well, they would go to Japan and yeah, I kind of missed that. I think we need to bring them. Well, yeah, the sentiment I saw last night that was kind of centered on the Clooney thing was like, we need to bring back like a really stringent 80s or early 90s sense of selling out. Yes. Because like, we've gone too far. What was the commercial that sort of broke that down? Do we remember? I feel like I feel like if I thought about it for a few minutes, I could remember. I mean, the George Clooney Nespresso ads did make their way over the Atlantic from Europe at some point and became like an outgoing punchline, right? Like, to this day. Yeah. I think the American Express ads, American Express, they would have famous people, you know, that and King did one. I think that the American, the American, the MX definitely was an early thing. Honestly, in this sounds like maybe I'm nagging like a major media platform, but like, I kind of feel like when movie stars started doing television, that sort of was like, blurred the lines enough. They were like, okay, well, how blurry can this get? You know, like we could, because yeah, now I think it was also like voice over stuff, like not that he was a big star, but Billy Crenup doing Mastercard for years. Right, right. Um, Octavia. Jamie Lee Curtis doing Octavia. Absolutely. And then paraded on SNL, you know, um, I think Billy Crenup did, did Mastercard before he kind of hit his big, right? He had, I think, he was around. Like, he had done his earlier stuff and he'd done almost famous and all that, but like, yeah, he wasn't like, you know, it was before all this current success, but, um, but yeah, I mean, I, I guess like, I don't know, I just bring back sort of shame about that. Yeah, paid enough for you to bring back shame on many, many levels. I know. Or you'd be like, that's the problem isn't those commercials. The problem is just shame. Just those. Yeah. Although I will say I, I spent my weekend watching the Olympics mostly on like the peacock app, which is great. And you can, but you still do get commercials. And for whatever reason, all I've seen are commercials for Red Bull and then like, medicines with horrifying side effects. That's it. Which I guess Red Bull is good. Red Bull is kind of too. This side of X, I include death. Did you know that one symptom of depression is sadness? I like when they're like, um, do not use if you are allergic to this medication. Have you ever ever even thought about being pregnant? Do not come within 50 feet of to strug? Like, yeah, is it a side effect of depression or side effect of the medication you take for depression that one of the potential side effects of the depression medication is depression symptoms like sad. Oh my god. Which is, yeah. So it's like another way of saying our medication doesn't work. Exactly. Exactly. But you know, it does work. Good old team USA. We won the, the team's figure skating. So happy about that. No, I wanted the Japanese to win. They were better. But anyway, we'll build a thank you. This was great. Thank you. We'll have to have you back at some point. Um, and, um, do we have a winner or loser this week or, um, poke immemorial we want to do? I guess our winner is Ben Affleck for, uh, continuing that Duncan Donuts thing, even while making fun of himself for, uh, still being on that Boston stick as I think is part of the ad, someone making fun of him for that. And, you know, I'll say as a native of Boston from the actual city of Boston, by the way, not some. No, um, I, it still works on me a little bit. Like I still am kind of trying to buy it, even though he did not have a Boston accent growing up. He's from Cambridge, not Boston. Um, I still kind of like it. So I will probably go watch that ad, even if it is an abomination. Next week, a certain corner of the internet might be excited because we're headed to Brazil. We're going to bone up on our Portuguese, uh, to talk about the secret agent, um, which is available to rent now. It just got, I think, put on demand last week. So, uh, if you're watching along at home, uh, it should be accessible to you. Critical darlings is a blank check production and association with culture, hosted by Allison Wilmore and Richard Lawson, produced by Benjamin Frisch, executive produced by Griffin Newman and Neil Janelitz. Video production and distribution by Anne Victoria Clark, Wolfgang Rousse and Jennifer John.