Lis Smith: A Very Vengeful President

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Of course she misses you. I didn't tell her that I was going on your show today. This is going to be the highlight of her week. Maybe I should swing by. Does she need ice cream or something? Does she need a delivery? Yeah, maybe some PT. PT? Are you qualified to do that? I can't do pelvic PT. I don't think she wants me touching her pelvis. I feel like she would be more comfortable with you touching her pelvis than most other men. Sure. Okay. Well, we'll get back to that. We might have to have a little parent corner at the end since we, you know, since it feels like a parenting vibe for Friday. We've got some fun stuff for people. There's a little bit of concerning news in my life. Not for me, actually. I'm not really worried about it. But my husband didn't love it. Like when he saw that the White House sent out a tweet earlier this week accusing me of violating Farrah, which is the, you know, where you have to register as a foreign agent. The reason that they said I violated Farrah was because I quote tweeted a report coming out of the farce Iranian news agency. I was just commenting on what they said. I don't take any Iranian money, obviously. I'm supported by our lovely viewers and subscribers at thebullwork.com. Donald Trump does take money from foreign countries. Quite a few. His family does, too. Yeah. His family does. Yeah, UAE, Saudi, Qatar. He's getting a plane from Qatar. He got a plane, yep. Seems like he might be a foreign agent. But I don't know. What do you think? Is this kind of good news for me? Should I be concerned? Should I be lawyering up? I could see why your husband is unhappy about it, but I feel like you are going to be absolutely insufferable about this. You are just going to talk about this nonstop. Even like last night you texted me five times, just making sure I knew that one of the topics was going to be you and Farrah. You're going to be at the bar saying, Hey, did you guys see the tweet? I'm now Farrah. But I mean, what's incredible to me is that this is probably the first time in history that anyone associated with Bill Crystal has been accused of being soft on Iran. An Iranian agent even. Yeah, exactly. Forget soft on Iran. What a world. Yeah, it's a strange world. We had Bob Kagan on earlier this week and he was sounding like a downright leftist. So, you know, things are changing. But I am going to be insufferable about it in part because there's no reason to be scared of these guys on this front because they've been competent in a lot of areas with their nefarious goals, immigration, for example. They haven't really been very good going after the foes. I don't think the seashell crimes. Jim Comey on the pot a couple of weeks ago, he didn't seem to be shaking in his boots about going to prison over the seashells. You know, I don't know. Yeah. And, you know, I work with Adam Schiff, worked with him for a number of years now. And I mean, it seems like they've been trying now for over a year to get him and haven't been able to do so. How does he feel? How does Mrs. Schiff feel? Is she nervous or are they? I don't think anyone's ever stoked to be, you know, in the crosshairs of a very vengeful president. But he's an upright guy. He did everything by the law. He's pretty much a boy scout. So I don't think he's too concerned about things. But no one likes being in the administration's crosshairs except for maybe you. I have to admit, you have me clocked. Yeah, I did. I enjoyed it. And I'm hoping that they attack me more. The more they attack me over their stupid Iranian policy, it feels like the better. Yeah. More eyeballs you get, the more money you make. What are they going to do? Like kick you out of the White House briefing room? You don't need access to the White House. And also, I mean, I think that as a broader level, I mean, you're talking to a lot of Dems. I think the more that they're talking about this, just as general issue, the worst it is for them. Like it'd be one thing if they were like, I don't know, coming at me on something from an area of strength. But like the reason why a tweet that comments on, you know, how the Iranians are not really folding to Donald Trump's demands, you know, has them shook, is because the Iranians don't seem to be folding to Donald Trump's demands. And this thing was supposed to be over in a couple of days. It was going to be unconditional surrender. We're going to have the Iranian, Delci Rodriguez was going to be Mahmoud Ahmadinejad was coming back, whatever their stupid plan was. And like they're kind of fucked right now. And I don't know. Do you say to your Dem clients, like, press on the gas on Iran right now? Yeah, I do. It's incredibly unpopular across the board. I mean, it is a dumb war. If you go back to 2001, 2003 with Afghanistan or Iraq, there are at least some, you know, at least half baked excuses for going into this. There really was no rationale for going in. There's no end game. And the effects of it are being felt immediately. Gas prices are so out of control. Like Donald Trump ran on two big things, which is I'm going to lower your costs and I'm going to stop getting into wars. And he is getting us into wars. And as a result, raising our costs. So it is, it's a very clear connection. This is not just some like amorphous thing that's happening across the globe, hard to follow. It is directly connected to the price that people are paying for gas at the pump. Yeah, I don't even know what a win is. Like your friend, Scott Jennings posted yesterday. This looks like a huge win for President Trump. He was posting the 19th report from Axios saying that we have a deal right around the corner. They're going to be right eventually. And the folks at Axios, they just, one of these times they're going to be correct. Like they keep saying a deals around the corner in the kind of the broad sweep of history. The deal is around the corner because we'll eventually have on you would assume. But Jennings says this was a huge win. I don't even know what could be a win. I don't know. Like even if the Iranians gave them everything, even if the Iranians woke up tomorrow and they're like, we're crying uncle. The blockade is hurting us too much. You know, Ayatollah Khomeini number two, the maybe gay one is just like Mr. Trump, whatever you want. Like we're opening the straight tomorrow will give you the dust. Like even then it's like, was it worth it? Was it worth pissing off our allies? Was it worth all the like munitions we've lost the cost of this war? We're going to have to rebuild our military, the cost of consumers of gas. Like I don't even know what a win looks like. Yeah. And that's the problem is the cost and thinking about all of that money that could have been spent here at home. And that was a big thing Trump talked about in 2024 is why are we spending all this money in Ukraine when we could be spending it here at home? But he's doing that in Iran. And this Iran makes a lot less sense than intervening with Ukraine. And then the other thing that's even more troubling is when you see now that because of all the block industry of her moose, gas prices are not going to go down for a very, very long time. It's not like they they come to a deal and gas prices immediately drop. So gas prices are going to remain high through the election. I do not see them getting a win before November. And the biggest losers of all this are going to be consumers. It's going to be the voters who went to the polls in 2024 and said, I'm not going to vote for Joe Biden because costs are too high and he doesn't give a shit about inflation. And Donald Trump very clearly gives even less of a shit about inflation than Joe Biden does. All right. So just because I'm enjoying the administration threatening me, doesn't make it good for the administration to threaten people. So I did want to mention one of the stories happened this week that I find pretty sick. Somebody else that seems like they're actually being targeted by the administration, not just by tweets is E. Jean Carroll CNN reported that DOJ opened a criminal perjury investigation into her testimony during her deposition about how her lawsuit was funded. No one's confirmed that recording, but there's also some other related investigations. Trump's trying to get immunity from having to pay her the 83.3 million. Like this is insane that he's going after her to the extent that they even are looking into it. It's so disgusting to think that E. Jean was victimized by Trump. They took it to a jury of their peers. There was a result and now he becomes the president and he's trying to victimize her again. I don't know. What's your perspective on this? Because it's just like, is this what we want the fucking DOJ doing? Does anybody want this? Does anybody feel like this is justice or makes anybody feel safer or anything? It makes me fucking pissed on the behalf. It makes me pissed and no, I don't think anyone wants this. I don't think anyone asked for this. And there is always that fear if Donald Trump can do this against his enemies, Democrats could go in and do it against theirs. Does that sound kind of good to you now? Are you changing your mood on whether the Democrats should do more vengeful? I think Democrats should hold people accountable. But I'm not for just like bloodthirst vengeance, at least not politically. With your personality? Yes, all for it. But the other thing is like, doesn't the DOJ have bigger fish to fry? Like drug trafficking, sex trafficking, all of these things. And instead of focusing on these big problems, we're focused on Eugene Carroll, who had a legitimate claim that Trump had sexually assaulted her years ago. And I think it's frightening to people. I think it's really petty. And this is not what he was elected on. And this is not what people care about. And this is not making anyone's lives better. Yeah, 82 year old Eugene Carroll. It was one of my favorite episodes of the podcast ever. I got a list. She went through, she just was very upfront about her past sex life. And I believe that she had had sex with five or six men total in her whole life. And it was like an Oscar winner, an astronaut, an Olympian. I mean, it was the best roster I've ever heard. It sounds a lot like mine. It says it's so different from mine. So different from mine, you know, bartender. Anyway, so Eugene is wonderful and she's a Spitfire. And I don't think she'll be pushed down by this, but it's it's sick. I'm thinking about the vengeance question. And this isn't really vengeance, but it's more like oversight. I saw you posting about this this week. I feel like one thing that I can bring, you know, having been a Republican quite a while ago now, but it's been it's been a minute. But the Republican oversight during the Obama and Biden years, Obama in particular, was aggressive and like blood thirsty and relentless. And you look at Trae Galady and his management of that oversight committee and some of it looks stupid and they made fun of it. They're like, oh, you're going to have the 32nd Benghazi hearing. But like it worked. It worked. Like we learned about Anthony Wiener's behavior because of those investigations. Everything that led to the Jim Comey letter to Clinton in the fall of 2016 came out of those investigations. Like what like what should the Dems be doing and preparing for right now, assuming they can take over in 2027. We'll get to that next. Like what for, you know, how to effectively do oversight over this administration. So we can't wait to till 2027. Like hopefully we win the house. We cannot wait till 2027 to start prosecuting this case. And I don't where were you in 2006? Oh boy. That's right. Smoking the bong on panic tour. Where was I in 2006? I was in Jeff Lane birdies campaign in Iowa was really good. We are the second closest Republican challenger in the country. The Republicans won zero seats last that year. That's when like Culver won. Yep. Yeah. Culver crushed Jim Nussle in the governor's race that year. Our friend Maria. I know I was going to say Maria work for him. Yeah. Yeah. Shout out Maria. Yeah, correction. I was in the closet actually. So that's where I was in the closet. Did you ask Maria out? I did. Yeah. I was in the closet. I asked Maria out. I was wearing fake glasses at the time. I was going through some stuff. I was still a Republican. I've really kind of self actualized since then. It's kind of like there was a period of time where I looked back on that with a lot of embarrassment. But now that we sit here in this soft focused studio, I can say I look back on that now and think, man, maybe I needed that, that embarrassing moment with Maria Camilla to fully come out the other side and blossom and be my true self. So you went from being a closet Republican fake glasses wearing operative to a never trumpet to a Democrat and now to an agent of the Iranian government allegedly falsely allegedly. Wow. That is like some Madonna like reinvention. It's been a journey. So yeah. Where were we? Why are we talking about 2006? You know, your personal story always gets me. So I was with Claremacascal in 2006 and her center race. And if you remember that year, that was when all of these GOP corruption scandals came to a head with the lobbyists and paid a play stuff with Mark Foley and the cover up with him, you know, doing all this inappropriate stuff with underage pages. And it was a mixture of like bad sex stuff and we sure have paid a play stuff and make sure of self enrichment. And we Democrats effectively use that to say that there was an irredeemable culture of corruption in the Republican Party. We needed to drain the swamp clean house and we had candidates who could prosecute the case effectively like someone like Claremacascal, state order who'd rooted out waste. Jim Webb in Virginia like this just amazing, you know, war hero. I think we're really ripe for a moment like that now. The corruption is so much worse. So much more brazen. I was last night I was reading through all the Trump stuff. It is crazy. Like, have you ever just tried to read it out on this show? Like, it would take forever. Like the billions in crypto stuff, the family deals. I mean, Did you see the Dell story? Yes, that came out this week. This one is this one is so crazy. So Trump, obviously Michael Dell put the money into the Trump bonds or whatever it is, which is pretty annoying as it is. But like the money is going to a good thing. But like, why do you put Trump's name and face on everything? But Trump as part of that, like at a press conference is like go buy a Dell, like go buy Dell and he starts promoting Dell from the White House. Simultaneous that lead to that he bought like five million and Dell stock. And this week Dell got a like $9 billion department of war contract. Yeah. And so their stock obviously goes up huge. Like this is crazy. Like the amount of money that he is personally investing in addition to all the crypto stuff in addition to the family stuff, like is beyond like everybody made a big deal at the Pelosi tracker and the like he's billions of dollars billions. And so the trading as you as you're talking about, and then you add in much like the Mark Foley thing you have that the whole Epstein file cover up, right. And the fact that they didn't want to release it in part because they wanted to protect a lot of the powerful men, not necessarily even ones who are partaking in all the disgusting unlawful things that I've seen we're doing but who were just like sidling up to him knowing that he had was engaging in this behavior. And so I think it creates this perfect stew of corruption and swampiness to run against and Democrats actually have good candidates, much like in 2006, who can do that. I think one of the things that Democrats have done well this cycle is go outside of like some of the typical career politicians and look for people with different types of profiles and, you know, sort of an ideal type of person here. Again, this is someone who's been in politics more but like someone like Rob sand, right. He runs ads just saying, you know, governor of Iowa, stealing is bad and he made fighting corruption hallmark of his time as state auditor. I think he's got a great shot at winning, winning that governor's race in Iowa. But Democrats need to go at the corruption issue and say, look, Donald Trump Republicans ran on making your life more affordable, lower in cost for you. Instead, they are just focused on making themselves as rich as possible. So I agree with your assessment of the campaigns, the folks that are running in campaigns. And I think the Democrats have a lot of good candidates. We're going to get a little bit more into that. I'm a little less impressed with the DC Democrats, particularly in the Senate side. If you think about like, who is going to be the Trey Gowdy? Shouldn't that person be the Trey Gowdy already? Like if you said right now, who is the Democrat that is like bringing voice to the corruption and the most compelling way right now? I don't, you know, if you said Epstein and be Ro Khanna Garcia, Robert Garcia also did a really good job on Epstein. You know, there are other issues you can think of other people. Ngoose has actually done a really good job on a lot of the corruption stuff. And again, if Dems retake the house in 2027. He's congressman of Colorado. I love Jenna Goose, Big Nuggets fan, but like people don't know who that is. Like who of the big names senators? Trey Gowdy wasn't a big name until he took this to font. And I actually think that, you know, having someone who is a relatively fresh face doesn't have a lot of the Washington baggage. Taking this on would be most effective. But we've got to lay out the case now. And sometimes we think, because we read all of this news, we listen to the bulwark, we read the New York Times, we read playbook, we do all this. I can't say I do all those every day. I'm a mom of a three year old. Yeah, I was going to say that you're taking some liberties with the word we when he said we listen to the bulwark, the listeners listen to the bulwark, you listen every once in a while. I have one of your clients. Yes. And but most people don't. And you, I sort of got it almost passed out the other day when you quote tweeted Glenn Greenwald. He did this, a jubilee where he was talking to MAGA supporters, and he was telling them about all the corruption in the Trump administration. And none of them knew anything about it, knew anything about it. Why? Because they get news from from people who are aligned with them, ideologically. A lot of them aren't seeking out political news or not listening to the bulwark. They're not reading the New York Times or not looking to non-partisan things. So how is it that we are able to get this message out to everyone? Because I really do believe the corruption message is very critical in the selection. And it's really got to be an all of the above strategy where talking about it every day on the campaign trail, it is part of the economic message we're doing. It's in our paid advertising and Democrats are going as many places as possible to talk about it. The corruption stuff is so, so corrosive. And I have never been one of those people who was overly hyperbolic about the Trump stuff. I think sometimes early on when Democrats did it, it hurt us in the long run because they freaked out about so many small things that by the time the big things were happening, we lost credibility. But the stuff we're reading about now is crazy. It is. It's crazy. And we have to, we have to win this election. We have to prosecute this case. And we've got to put in really, really strong guard where else to make sure that this can happen again. You know, people buying pardons. I forgot to mention that. It's crazy. It is a little bit of a problem that nobody in the Democratic Senate conference seems to be able to talk. You know, like Chris Murphy is pretty good. But it's tough. It's tough. It was like a weakness of the Schumer recruiting. I was talking to a fellow Democratic strategist the other day who actually likes Schumer. But he's like, if you look back, it's a grinning era now. You know, and I don't want to just pick on random Democratic senators. But like, if you just think about the people that they recruited in these states in Michigan and Nebraska and Nevada and some of these states, it's like, it's not exactly people that are lighting the room on fire. It was legislators. It was people that, you know, knew how to work the system. And like, that's fine. But in this moment, I kind of wish there were more people who could like, like the room on fire. You mean in terms of going on media or like so, I think someone like Adam Schiff again, someone I work for in the Senate in that format, he is he's a former prosecutor. He's very good at prosecuting the case. But would I put Adam Schiff on hostile media? No, I mean, because the hate is so ingrained against him that he is not going to be a particularly credible messenger. But we need to figure that out and figure that out fast. Who is going everywhere? Rokana, you mentioned has done a good job of going to many places. But yeah, let's deputize more people. Now, Rose, but on Fox and things are different. I had the team because, you know, do you feel like you get credit for like coining the go everywhere strategy? Is that is that Liz Smith TM? I think some people have given me credit. I give you credit for. So I had an idea for a gimmick, which was I was going to put on Dems on Fox recently and we're going to grade them like who's doing well, you know, we're going to grade on the Pete scale. Like, you know, where Pete is the best and, you know, who I don't know who'd be the worst in that trajectory. But for this week, only one Democrat has been on Fox. It was Chris Coons and he got asked about Jill Biden's book. And I just I wish Jill Biden would just go away. I've got lover just hanging out in Delaware. We don't need the book. This is not a book anybody wants or needs. So it wasn't that great of a hit. You know, you weren't really on offense when you're talking about the buying 2024 debate and Coons are the best he could. He kind of pivots back to his message points. It's like, OK, so what is happening there? Like are not enough Dems trying to go on? Do you think Fox realizes things are bad or not having people on? It feels like the effort on the go everywhere is not really as intense as I would like in this moment. So there are two reasons these days to go on Fox. One is to have a moment, right? Where you just go on and you're like, I want to punch the host in the face. That's a very self-serving thing where you will get donors out of it. The Chatteron class will be like, oh, look, this guy can take the fight. This guy or gal can take the fight to the Republicans. You will get plotted online. But when you take that approach, you are absolutely not winning anyone at home. And I've just seen over time people more and more doing that approach versus the persuasion approach. And in 2019, 2020 with Pete, he did lean very much into their persuasion approach. And you still see some Democrats doing that. Mark Kelly had a really good appearance a number of months ago. It was like Jason Crowe was trying to do that when he goes on and see him a few times. And Rowe was pretty good at that. We mentioned him already. And so I think if the goal is to get the message out to people that this administration is really corrupt and that it's wrong and that this corruption is hurting you and that you elected these people to lower your costs and they're just getting rich, I think going on and yelling at them, insulting the host is less effective than trying to make the persuasive case and say, look, we can all agree corruption is bad, that people should not be getting elected to Congress to enrich themselves. And I would try to strike more of that tone. And it doesn't just need to be Fox News. As we know, Fox News, its audience is getting smaller and smaller over time. And so we've got to really hit the entire ecosystem. But it does feel like a moment to do it, right? Because of the corruption and because of how bad the war is going. And I don't know, I'm looking at, you know, if you're Will Cain out there, are you scared of having Democrats? Like, why aren't Democrats on the Will Cain show right now? I try to have Republicans on this show, none of them will come on. And I think that they realize that it's a position of weakness that they're in. And it's pretty telling that there is only one Democrat on Fox this week. And to me, I think that the Democrats should do more to be trying to go into these spaces. But I think it's pretty telling that Fox is not, you know, using this moment to try to find, you know, an Alan Colm's punching bag to knock around. I think that they realize that, like, that they're not a lot of good arguments they have for the way that Donald Trump's been governing the last couple months. Well, what I found interesting, I think it was this week, was Megyn Kelly went hard at Trump saying, I cannot believe how brazen they are in their corruption. And you've seen people like Joe Rogan, you know, call out the corruption too. So it doesn't just need to be Fox. Like, Rogan is not like a right wing outlet, but it's certainly more right-coded. But he has a huge, diverse, persuadable audience. It is very tough to get booked on there as a politician. Megyn Kelly, a little easier. It's sometimes she does a lot of this stuff in bad faith. But I would look at the broader ecosystem and not just think of the only way to reach right-leaning independence and Republicans as Fox knows. Well, we can see the P word again. So I guess that'd be my message to Jesse Waters and Will Cain. Like, don't be a pussy. Look, have them on, you know? Yeah. It's 2026. All right, lately, if you're getting dressed for the podcast on YouTube, you want some staples, you want some basics, you want to make it as easy as possible. Barack Obama famously said he tried to cut out all decision-making, and so, you know, he only gave himself two suit options. That's not me. I like to mix it up a little bit, but you do want to make it easy on yourself. And when you're doing that, we can turn to our friends at Quince. 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Now available in Canada too. That's Q-U-I-N-C-E dot com slash theBullwork for free shipping and 365 day returns. Quince.com slash theBullwork. Let's just talk about the back to the candidates and like the dem map. Because this is in the spirit of Fox, the no spin zone, we're going to separate out the candidates that you're actually working for. Because I don't... People know you're working for Mallory, by the way. I'm partial to Mallory in the Michigan Senate race. You have a bunch of other candidates. So I kind of want to just talk a little bit more broader about the various dem candidates and what you're seeing out there. And one person that we can talk about because famously you're not working for him is James Tellerico. Well, apparently no one told Jasmine Crocket that. When I interviewed Tellerico, we didn't do this bit on stage because it felt a little unsidery, but I did ask him behind. I was like, so, has Liz Smith been telling you what to do? And he said that we have a joke on the campaign internally, we can't decide what to do. We say, let's go to the big boss and we'll call Liz Smith. And I mean, just you can't even imagine. I remember when the video popped of her... Of Jasmine. Of Jasmine Crocket, some like close door fundraiser saying, I'm behind all these things, all that. I'm literally with my two and a half year old son at his swim class on a Saturday morning. Like, girl, I am not playing Rasputin in this race. I am struggling to get that swim diaper on. And, you know, it's sort of like the fairer thing with you. It is, especially when you're a parent of a two year old and sometimes you're like, God, this two year old is kicking my ass. I feel so powerless. It's sort of nice when people think of you as this like powerful puppet master. And sadly in this case, it wasn't true. And like, I would gladly take credit for it if it were true. James has ran a great campaign, but I think he's a great candidate. I gave him some early informal advice, but I've not been working on this race. What do you think now about the situation? He's in the general year against Ken Paxton. Republicans go in whole hog at him. I mean, low T, Telerico, they're going back to all of his various peak quote quotes. Teler-freaco. Teler-freaco. He had some bad peak quote quotes. We can, I mean, talking about his whiteness, talking about my neighbor with a uterus. He literally talked about my neighbor with a uterus. And it's like, I don't want to hear a man saying the word uterus at all. It's weird. And we can respect and love our trans neighbors. Well, also just saying woman. Am I a girl? I think that's okay. So I don't know. How worried are you about all that stuff? Like, do you think it lands differently in 26 and then 24? Because what else is happening in the world? Like, what's your assessment? A lot of Democrats said a lot of dumb shit in 2019 and 2020. And I saw it up close. You know, I was on Pete's presidential campaign, felt like a daily struggle with some of our staff. Trying to force Pete to use, you know, gender, neutral language when it came to abortions and things like that. And he's a guy from Indiana. He understands that this is... He had to take his pronouns out of his bio. This is not how you're going to convert people on a fractious issue like abortion and choice. So, look, I think we temporarily lost our minds. I think we're at risk for that to happen again, by the way. I don't think we're out of the woods. But for now, I'm seeing some of this language bubbling up in some of these deep blue primaries. And I'm concerned with 2028. I'm really concerned about 2028. I feel like we should maybe just do another episode on this. But I was talking to another Dem Strategist about this. And they're like, people that think that we've moved on from the crazy stuff in the 2020, it's like all of the incentives for the Dems of 2028 are going to be to go as far left as possible to get claps online and small-dollar donors. Bingo. And the staff that, you know, will be on these campaigns will, you know, try to push them that way or threaten to walk off, et cetera, et cetera. But one thing that James is doing that I saw work well for Zoran Mamdani in his Marrow Races, Zoran Mamdani was confronted with old tweets where he said, you know, we need to defund the police, the NYPD is an anti-queer, anti, I don't know. Like all this sort of language I don't understand or use, right? That I've never heard normal people use. Like a colonizing force, right? It's like shit that sounds like it's from an over... The police is anti-queer liberation. Oberlin College dorm lecture. You don't know who threw the first stone at Stonewall. That's where we're right around the corner from Stonewall right now. Yes. So, but Mamdani went out and said, you know what? I regret those statements. They don't reflect my views now. And guess what? I'm going to keep Jessica Tish as police commissioner, which I think was the best decision he made. And he was able to effectively neutralize it by saying, I said dumb things. I don't believe them now. Did his office and people in his coalition? Yeah. But they're more willing to go with him because he still was the most progressive person in that race. And by that time, no one in that mayoral primary is running on defund the police. Like everyone sort of understated the loser. Right. But with, so with James, he's been smart to say, I said dumb things. And, um, which I answered them in moving on. And not only that, he is, I think, making a very concerted effort right now. And you and I talked about this before. Is, is he like actually a moderate or is he just aesthetically a moderate? And we're seeing a few areas where he is like breaking more with democratic orthodoxy. An oil and gas saying that Democrats have been too hostile to oil and gas and that oil and gas is lifeblood for a lot of communities in Texas. That is, you know, a few years ago would have been, you know, a heretical thing to say. He slammed Biden's hand handling of the border, which is really smart. You know what he did was he said, and this, this one was interesting to me because I haven't heard this from a lot of Democrats. You know, his background is as a middle middle school teacher. And he said that he thinks that there needs to be more accountability for teachers, more accountability for bad teachers, you know, stricter standards. And we haven't really heard that from a lot of Democrats lately. Democrats sort of went from being like sympathetic or supportive of education reform under Obama to just like not talking about reform at all. And I thought that was interesting because we know that George W. Bush in Texas had been a big proponent of this. And so it sort of signals to people that he is a different type of Democrat, but he's got to go out there. He's got to certainly prosecute the case against Ken Paxson speaking of freak, right? And there's a lot of opportunities there that fit into the whole corruption frame. I mean, this is a guy who went in with like a net worth of $150,000, now a multimillionaire. How do you make that much money as an attorney general? Yeah, and bribes. And then... Which he's been indicted for. Um, Calarico had... He stole a pen. Yeah, he stole a pen. What the heck is that? He stole like a Mont Blanc. I don't know, is that what it's called? It's a really fancy pen. I'm not a fancy pen guy. Right, yeah. But, um, yeah. And then there's that thing where he let off the hook, this guy who admitted to repeatedly raping a boy from the age of like eight, nine, ten. Yeah, he got like 30 days. 30 days. Just say he had friends or, you know, had a relationship of some kind. Right. And so, I mean, that's like more folios, sir, it's Epstein. It fits into all of this whole class and it's disgusting. It's sick. He hasn't debated since 2014, speaking of the P word again. Paxton doesn't debate. Doesn't debate. So, I think a lot of opportunities for him to go on offense. Like, look, if they're going to go this way about Calarico, let's just go there with Paxton. That guy does not have a face for TV. No. It, honestly, it looks like there's something wrong. He's uniquely... He looks kind of like a drunk, empty, dumpty. Yeah. Yeah, I almost wonder if he's dealing with a medical condition. But like him calling, it seems like... Take one of those situations where like you have all this guilt on the inside and it begins eating you away at the outside. You see this sometimes. Yeah, it's like the Dorian Gray. Harvey Weinstein had that. Yeah, sort of situate. But he is a freak. He's like the definition of a freak. And one thing Democrats have against him is all the awful things Republicans have said against him. All the crazy... Those NRSC ads against him were ridiculous, like saying rape and murder would go up under him. If he's Senator, I went after him for being all the infidelity, all the corruption in his office. So I think it's... There's a lot to go after Paxton on, but James has got a... It's still a Trump plus what? 14. See? A little less. Galvanize the base, but also make sure he loses those red areas by less. What do you think about the broader... As we get into these other races, both in the House and the Senate and in red districts or reddish, soft red districts, there are a couple of models out there. I guess the partners in Maine, which Convola one, so it's not a red district, but you see people doing the populous left thing. Dan Osborn is doing that. And Nebraska. Then you also see people trying more of... I guess what you call me more of a middle of the road type populism, localizing Pultola in Alaska, Roy Cooper in North Carolina. How do you navigate all that? Do you feel like there's a case for both of those options? Do you prefer one? What kind of advice would you give people? I prefer the one that's going to win in the area where people are winning. I've said this forever. I wrote about this in my book. There is no one way to be a Democrat. We've got to give people space to be different types of Democrats. I also want to see it. I want to see it in real time, like what's working and what's not working. And one thing that excites me about this cycle is we are truly running different types of candidates. I mean, Graham Platner couldn't get much... What do you think about the idea that we do a candidate swap and have him run in Texas and Telerico run in Maine? Oh. I don't think that any of the woke stuff would really matter in Maine. And I think the people in Texas might like some of Graham's reddit posts. Yeah. I saw that. I could see it. I could see it. He's not a usual candidate. However, I would say that this is where I think Graham would have problems in Texas is on issues with law enforcement and immigration enforcement. Not exactly. Yeah, right left. Yeah. And Texas is a place where people want immigration enforcement. They don't want the like chaotic ICE raids, but they want secure border. They want secure... Your guy Bobby Polito, who you can tell for us on the show. He was really good on this. Yeah. Yeah. And there's the Board of Law Enforcement. I know Platner said negative things about that, but I think Platner's a really interesting candidate. He had all these things. People thought we're going to end his campaign, this thing, this thing. It felt very much like Trump in 2016. I've been watching this. I'm so happy you said that because it's hard to say this without being offensive to Platner. And I don't mean... I really don't mean it this way. But it's like, how did the Republicans who spent 10 years watching the Democrats do what you just said, ineffectually throw stuff at Trump and think it was going to work when all it did was boomerang back on them? Because it was like, oh, Mr. Trump said some uncouth words. That's going to really be the thing that broke him. All of this stuff didn't work. It just made Trump supporters love him more. And this is just kind of like the inverse of that. Yeah. Where the Republican... Every time I see a new Oppo drop, there was some free beacon thing today that was like, who Graham Platner said on Reddit, he wasn't sure about the Armenian genocide. Oh my God. And I'm like, oh, that'll do it. That's really going to be the straw that breaks the camel's back. It just... It's a misunderstanding what attracts people to the candidate. Yeah. And they're throwing so many different things. Adam, like Susan Collins yesterday was saying, oh, he cusses on Reddit. Like, ooh. You know, Donald Trump calls people pussy from the podium. I actually think that part of Graham Patner's appeal is the fact that he led an imperfect, flawed life, struggled with so many things, and is trying to be a better man. And I happen to believe that people shouldn't be defined by their worst days. The worst things they've said online, the worst tattoos they've gotten. I'm going to ask Maria Camel out on a date when they're in the closet. I mean, you probably don't... Nobody wants to be defined, but that's not my worst day. Yeah, I've done worse stuff than that. Let's not do that though. Let's move forward. But the... We're not going back. And I think people sort of have responded to that. Now, I understand why people have misgivings about Graham Patner, but to his credit, and I certainly don't agree with him ideologically on everything. I think on issues of immigration, maybe law enforcement, I'm probably a little bit more toward the center. But I respect that he has taken this case directly to the people of Maine. He's going everywhere, taking all of the questions. He didn't just get in a bunker after all these things and hide. He ran right to him and answered it. The people of Maine are going wild for him. In that primary, he was just trouncing the incumbent governor. I saw a video the other day of one of the Republican trackers following him around, being like, do you still like to masturbate in public restrooms, Graham? And it's like, okay. But he's out there. And it's like, okay, yeah, go for that. You're going to get mad at a Marine for saying that like, I don't know, have you ever watched Jarhead? You know, you got to catch a moment. Well, there's a masturbation scene at Jarhead. It's a trigger warning. I watched it with my mother. It was traumatizing. Yeah. I know to self, I will not be watching that with Adrienne. But there's a big difference between Patner and Trump though, because Trump never went out and said, I'm sorry for these things I did. I'm sorry I did these awful things. Grandpas never saying, I was a bad person back then. I was going through a lot of troubles, but I'm a different person now. And I want to use my struggles, I use my journey to help other people who have gone through similar things and, you know, go to the Senate and like fight for people who feel left behind by the system. And he's like tapping into the very anti status quo, anti establishment feeling that people have, he's fucking pissed off. And everyone I know in Maine. I'm talking about people who like worked for Hillary Clinton, like not, I'm not talking about like lefties, all that. They go wild for him because they've seen him up close. And the nice thing about a state like Maine is you can actually see and touch a lot of people up close. Harder to do that in Texas. Trying to force mills was such a mistake. Oh yeah. It was such a mistake. Clay Schumer. It was like looking at 2024 and saying, okay, let's double down on all the dumb shit we did there. Someone old, someone who is the definition of the establishment. I don't understand why they expected a different result. Let's pick on the populace lefties for one second. Okay. Here's my main issue. Like in this moment right now, I feel like in the conventional wisdom and the narrative online, everybody now says like what the Democrats need to do to win is populist economics, as Bernie style economics. People in the grand platiner mold, like that's how you win over swing voters. And we're going to do that instead of moving to the middle on cultural issues or whatever, the things that people have suggested in the past that you do to win over swing voters. And I'm open to trying it. I'm actually not, it's not my cup of tea personally, but that could be right. My issue with it is like they're very dismissive of any other possible model for winning voters. Their model hasn't actually worked yet. It's true the Kamala model didn't work. Like we saw that, that's true. I bet I don't think anybody is suggesting we run the Harris campaign. I mean, what even was the Kamala model though? Exactly. The funny thing about the Kamala model, which I call the Kamala conundrum is that it's like it's so funny. Moderates say, well, the problem was that she was too far left. She was a California progressive. And then the populace Bernie types are like, well, the problem was she did the one event with Liz Cheney and she was too much of a corporate center. It's like, so she didn't appeal to anybody. My point is like they haven't done it. The reason that there's no bench of populace lefties is because they haven't like recruited successfully a candidate to go out and win a general election in a purple state or a red state. And that's not even really main. Like main is like a light blue state. And so sometimes I look at the kind of discourse around that and I feel like kind of the Bernie left a little bit over their skis. Yeah. Generally, the things that are loudest create the most conflict, get the most coverage. But to your point, there's not a lot of success. And like, I've, you know, I talked to a lot of voters, seen a lot of focus groups and like overall what people say is they don't want a revolution. They want stability. They want people understand that they wake up in the middle of the night like concerned about losing their job, like being one health emergency away from being bankrupt. They're not necessarily, you know, bankrupt right now, but it's just gnawing economic anxiety. And to a lot of people, the idea of this like revolution is actually pretty terrifying to them. They just want stability. They hate the chaos of the Trumps, but they don't want it replaced by a new sort of chaos where you're kicked off your healthcare and force onto a different system. And I sometimes think that just saying, you know, a noun, a verb, a billionaire doesn't, it's like maybe great for an ideological lecture, but it doesn't really connect with the main issues that people are feeling, which is they just can't afford shit. And they want to be able to know that like, if they go to the doctor, their services will be covered. They won't get surprise bills when they get prescribed prescriptions that they will be covered that they can afford them that maybe they could pay for them at the same rate people play overseas. And so we need to make sure that it is not just this up in the clouds, railing against billionaires and monopolies and all this stuff that a lot of people don't understand and really bring it down to the very urgent existential things that people feel about costs in their lives right now. Prove me wrong. It's fine. That is what works. And then that resonates with just it hasn't and I get frustrated. And I do think that people, it's funny, like they see that clearly when looking at the other side, like nobody looks at the other side. You know, people sit because Trump won twice. People say, see, we need, we need more of that. Like we can just let our freak flag fly. But like Trump moderated on some random issues, like foreign policy, which he hasn't followed through on and, you know, healthcare, which hasn't felt like he hasn't followed through on them. But he did in the campaign, he did moderate from like the Paul Ryan position on several issues. And you see clearly like, well, Carrie Lake didn't win. Herschel Walker didn't win. You know what I mean? Like when you look at the other side, you can see, I think, you know, because you're not clouded by your own like factional interest. It's like, well, yeah, I've had the Republicans nominate a more normal person in Georgia. John Ossoff might not be the hot new thing for 2028 because he might not be there anymore. Yeah. And if you look at, you know, 2022, right? When it was a midterm election, I mean, it was different because Biden was president. The Senate candidates who won, it was, you know, we're both Ossoff and. Yeah, I just got to correct myself. It was Warnock that ran against Walker. It was the same year because Ossoff ran against Purdue. Yeah. But then you had like, you had Federman. You had Mark Kelly. Yeah. And then the one Senate candidate who lost was Mandela Barnes. We should have won that race. And he was someone who was going more in that vein. Now, I don't think that there was a problem against rail against the billionaires, but you got to bring it back to not just billionaires bad, but like, for instance, you know, you and I talked about this before is we're seeing a lot of candidates right now talking about AI and the need to regulate AI and full disclosure. One of them is Mallory McMorough, a candidate I have advised since. Yeah, I'm not sure we are seeing a lot of candidates for kind of Alex Borrez, Mallory. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, as governor. And Mallory is the first, you know, statewide this cycle to really take it on, taking on both the jobs and the online safety piece. And Borrez has really sort of become the poster boy for this here in New York. What they're saying is, yes, this is about AI, because this could disrupt your job. It could put your kids at risk, do all these things, put your privacy at risk. The argument too is that these are a bunch of billionaires who are going to get rich by displacing you, displacing your job. These are a bunch of billionaires who are going to get rich by, you know, having your kids talk to chatbots that are, you know, encouraging them to commit suicide or sharing like inappropriate sexual information with them. So if you can make that connection and also the connection that fits in with the whole Trump narrative that there's a buying off candidates, buying off DC. And there's this cabal of very rich people who are trying to write the rules for themselves and get themselves rich while everyone else is getting screwed. And so I think if you can bring it all together like that and not just make it just like class warfare, billionaire, bad, and like this one gets under my skin, I'm sorry. I have to go there. Get loose. I know I'm getting loose. You got me all warmed up here. But like while I see these people going out there and saying, billionaires bad, they are all lined up behind Tom Sier in California. Explain that to me. This guy has spent half a billion dollars buying off influencers, buying off all these lefty groups whose whole rationale is billionaires bad, getting their support. And it shows one, it shows like just sort of how bad of a candidate. Tom Sier is that you spend half a billion dollars and you're still in the teens. I was, I remember him on those debates stages in 2020. This is not this is a guy who's a character. Yeah, not a dynamic character, but someone who's completely flipped his positions on everything else. But then like he has to buy all these people to support him and all the people he's buying off to support him are the people rail against a billionaire. So find all of that. It's a bit hollow, but hollow. So you're part of the Katie Porter hive then. You know what? OK, I. I'm a New York resident. I do some work in California. Adam Schiff and, you know, Mayor Daniel Lurie, who is I think. Love Mayor Daniel Lurie. OK, we're not stop, stop promoting on your candidates. I want to in fact, I want to get you some credit for the people that are mad at you. We love Daniel Lurie. For people who are maybe getting mad of some of your takes there on the left. You also were kind of a surprise Zoran Stan. You are last time you're on, I believe it was during the campaign and you were talking about how you would rank him ahead of Cuomo. Yeah. And I'm the transcripts. Obviously, there's some personal baggage there. But you were also at the time talking about how much you, you know, you liked him. You liked how much he loved the city and you liked his optimism. You've done a lot of local politics here. So now we're what, six months in basically five months in. Yeah. To the mayorship, like, like great. I'm how's he doing? Yeah. So I mean, just to your point, I had worked for Cuomo before I wrote a book where I called out some of the bad things I saw behind the scenes with the Andrew Cuomo, some of the things that I thought he was very dishonest with people about certainly relating to his sexual harassment scandal. And then when he ran, I was one of the only Cuomo staffers who was willing to publicly call him out. Why? It's pretty obvious. He's a pretty vengeful guy, but I thought it was really important. And I saw in Zoran Mamdani, someone who I didn't agree with on a lot of issues. But, you know, he did in a lot of ways, not ideologically, but in terms of his optimism, his presentation, remind me a little bit of Pete. Yeah. He tangled a little optimism. I loved how much he loved New York City. And I found that he talked about issues, not in that weirdo, lefty, intellectual way with all those words they don't understand. It's the Halal truck. It goes back to the Halal truck. It's just like, man, these guys are just trying to make a living and there's, they have to fill out too many fucking forms. Yeah. And they're like, that's a pure, that was appealing to me at like a technocratic abundance level. It's like, yeah, let the Halal truck guys sell cheap Halal to people. Like stop, like the city doesn't have to get involved in all this. And I liked the, you know, free 2K for people. And my biggest concern, so I ranked him in the primary. I proudly supported him, voted for him in the general. And I was a little nervous, a little nervous. But like for me, my, my top issue is one, two, three, four, five. It's public safety, public order, you know, in part because of some personal experiences that I had, but, you know, yesterday I was reading a story. The left is very mad at Zoran Mamdani because policing has gone up. The number of summons is going out. I've been up. People are complaining about the number, increased number of people, of police on the subways. And, you know, to me, I assume to a lot of bull work listeners, that is very welcome news because I really think when Democrats let our cities turn into dystopian shitholes of disorder, that it is very bad for the brand. Like some of its crime, but some of it is like, we live in the greatest city in the world. We should not be letting people die in our streets of mental illness and drug overdoses. And so I think he's done a good job of that. The smartest decision he made was keeping Jessica Tish's NYPD Commissioner. I'm glad he's empowered her. I like the stuff he's done on housing and saying I was wrong before for being a NIMBY. I'm leaning into YIMBYism. I like the stuff he's done on early childhood education. I also like just his style. Like I think that your style of leadership is policy itself. And for years and years and years, we had mayors and governors where everything was conflict, everything was a dick measuring contest. And he is willing to work with the Democratic governor, who is a very different type of Democrat from him, and get things done. Not only that, he's willing to work with the president to get things done for New York City. And I want that in my mayor. So. Sharia Law Smith. So there you go. DSA Liz. Yes. So I, um, I certainly he's had some missteps here or there, but overall, I feel positive, I hope he continues on this track. And I think he's defied a lot of the caricatures and worse expectations people had. We're back in the New York groove. The Knicks are in the finals. So O'Reilly is doing well. You can walk through the streets. I can feel the buzz in the streets, you know, people are hopping. Okay. Two more things. We'll let you go. One, we just had to make fun of us. And this has kind of worn your era of music actually. So Trump announced the great American state fair for the 250th anniversary. I hate him so much. I can't, I couldn't even go to this thing anyway, even if it was a band I liked because I just, I needed to break, you know, I'm going to be with my family. Pool party, barbecue. I don't need Donald Trump in my life on 4th of July this year. But anyway, he announced the lineup. It was very 80s. Martina McBride, I guess 90s. The Commodore is Brett Michaels, your big Brett Michaels gal. Morris Day in the Time, young MC, CNC music factory. The first tape I bought as a child was MC Hammer and CNC music factory. Vanilla ice was coming. Millie Vanilly post scandal, Flo Rida. So that was the list. There were nine people that were announced since then five have dropped out. So we're left with just the NC music factory. Vanilla ice, Flo Rida and Millie Vanilly at the Great American State Fair. Put on by Donald Trump. So I read that Millie Vanilly had dropped out. Millie's out too. And can we, can we just discuss this? Cause I remember where I was. Even Millie has too much integrity for this White House. I remember where I was when Millie Vanilly had that moment where they, you know, yes, the lip syncing and like, I'm like watching TV. I think I heard about it at my cousin Tom's house. Now that I mentioned it. And I mean, I've still over the years rewatched that clip. I mean, their song slept like I listened to them before I knew. But, you know, you would think the most embarrassing thing would be inviting Millie Vanilly to perform at your big presidential thing. But no, we found something more embarrassing is that they're backing out because it's bad for their reputation. Yeah. They, they were the most like reviled. Solid reputation. Solid reputation. Embarrassing group of the 1980s. The guys talked about how they wanted to like kill themselves. They couldn't show their faces in public. And like the fact that this is a bridge too far for them. Wow. Wow. Are you sad that Brett Michaels is out? You know, I was more of like a guns and roses girl than a poison. I, you know, I can, I can fuck with some like every rose has its thorn or some power ballads. Yeah. Hairbands. OK, well, since we're in the mommy vlogger studio, Bill Simmons had a bit that where he had parent parent corner at the end of his podcast with cousin Sal on Sunday. So I figured we'd do a little parent corner and we could each tell each other one story about life as a parent. Yeah. What do you want to go first or do you want me to? So I have noticed so my son, it turns three and three months. And he's definitely taken on a lot of gendered characteristics. Obsessed with the trucks, fire trucks, especially, but garbage trucks, police cars, dump trucks, excavators. You name it. Born this way. But another thing I've noticed recently is sometimes we'll be walking down the street. I don't love to use the stroller, but if he gets tired, he'll say, Appa, and I pick him up and he'll look behind me and he'll be like, oh, the man's coming, the man's coming. And then like the second time I did it, he's like a week later, I picked him up, he said, the man's coming. I was like, OK, well, what are you going to do about it? I'm going to push the man and I'm going to give him a boo boo. And, you know, I like that my son at the age of three already understands like you got to protect the women in your life. Yeah. Yeah. So it's important to be a protector. And that came out of nowhere. Don't get pushed around by the man, by the government. Yeah. Don't get pushed around by the American spirit. Yeah. So I I. He's so cute. Oh, he's so cute. But also I like that he's so protective of his mama. I like that, too. I also have a violent story. So that's perfect. We didn't plan this. To lose this week is in Nike Camp, basketball camp. And it is a co-ed camp, but at her age level, for whatever reason, like she was the only girl. Like there are some older girls that are there, which I was happy about. So, you know, they can have like girl power lunch together. But when they're playing the scrimmages, it's like her against boys. And she's really she's really good. But the boys just like mindset at this age back to born this way and gendered characteristics is just a little different. They just are like an age eight. Like they're naturally more aggressive. Like they don't want to pass to her. I've told the story before, I said, my dad like officially became a Me Too supporter when he came to watch her at like age five or six when she was the best player on the team and none of the boys would pass to her. And all of a sudden, I think he he saw the scourge of sexism first hand for the first time as a grandfather. And so I went to watch the scrimmage the first day because I was coming to New York and so I wanted to kind of show her that I was going to see her there. And I just saw that she was getting bullied a little bit. So after camp, I invited the neighborhood kids over. There's a 10 year old boy and a six year old boy. And we played two or two. And it was me and the six year old boy against Toulouse and the 10 year old boy, who's a big, big kid. And I just started well feraling on them, you know, like pushing them down, dunking on that, you know, doing, you know, posterizing them, swatting every shot, like really bragging. And she got really mad at me like he gets like screaming at me, you're a bragger, you're a bully, and like the six year old is like so happy because he's on my team and we're winning. And so he starts bragging. And finally, as we get closer, you know, I started kind of letting off a little bit, letting them push themselves and they they started pushing back, you know, the 10 year old boys started pushing me to lose, started getting physical, you know, and and we won obviously. But I felt like it was a good parenting life lesson because at the end I was like, that's what you do to those boys. When you go back to camp out there, like get out there, like get physical. Don't let those boys fucking push you around at Nike camp, you know, girl power, you're stronger, you're better than them. Like go do it. And I don't know if it actually worked. So I'll report back the next time we're on on whether this was a useful parenting strategy, maybe some listeners will let me know that, you know, dunking and blocking and trash talking. My child is not the right parenting approach, but that's what I went with this week. Yeah. And what do you think? I think, hey, thank you. I appreciate that. I wouldn't you rather have your kids be the pushed pushers than the ones that are getting pushed? Yeah. I took this girl out there. Yeah. So it's fucking like, well, uptown boys, like, you know, think that they're tough. I was like, they don't got nothing. Yeah. Got nothing. Sounds like we got a connector with Zane, like, you know, next time they're in the same city, probably learned a thing or two. I know we did her birthday up here. I don't know why I didn't see you. I was, it was right at New Year's. I don't know. We were busy. Liz Smith, anything else? Anything, anything else you want to show for now? We've made it to the very end of the podcast. Any other, any other clients showing a pitch? No, I'm just here to show for Democratic majority in 2026, but it's, it's great to be back here with you, Tim. Amen to that sister. We'll see you soon. Everybody else will be back here Monday for Liz Smith's favorite, Bill Crystal. We'll see y'all then. The Borg podcast is brought to you thanks to the work of lead producer Katie Cooper. Associate producer, Ansley Skipper, and with video editing by Katie Lutz and audio engineering and editing by Jason Brown.