Invincible Season 4 Episode 6 Reactions & Breakdown!

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Midi, the care women deserve. what's up everyone welcome back to level seven and another episode of beyond invincible your favorite invincible after show in the universe my name is tj aka fat thor and i am joined by my wonderful co-host today as always sean mott from metalcore nerds and our fearless leader tj zwarich sean how you doing today doing good i'm gonna be honest some of us got screeners for the last two episodes of invincible don't talk about i'm feeling don't talk about feeling very not okay right don't talk about it man we're not talking i still blame you in some form or fashion of why i haven't seen it yeah it's somehow your fault i'm putting it on you or it could be tj because we share the same name and that's happened before but putting blame aside tj how you doing today buddy doing well i got him too i haven't watched him yet i've been finally back in a little bit of a little bit of a movie like uh not marathon but like watching a movie a day over the past couple days which has been exciting because i had strictly been in my tv reading and video game mode for the last few months but watched eternity a couple nights ago watched the pizza movie last night i'm halfway through crime 101 which i was watching right before uh our show today and then i kind of hit the pause and we'll we'll finish it after but on you know a stretch of time where we have so much fun tv to watch i finally started watching watching a few movies again so doing pretty well staying indoors because it looked like we had spring here and then all of a sudden six inches of snow just got dumped on us last night and so staying inside staying warm watching some movies life's good damn completely opposite over here we're hitting like 90 and my rac actually went out so i'm cooking over here but that also leads perfectly into a little segment we like to call what you're watching we know what tj's watching sean give us our 20 minute rundown of all the things that you are watching uh similar to tj i i finished crime 101 i watched it last week when it became available on prime video it's weird i'm in a weird place in i don't know if this is similar for you guys but in some of the most of the movies that came out this year that i've watched at least they stand in this seven out of ten range but i have two ways of viewing seven out of ten sometimes a 7 out of 10 is like a pleasant surprise something I had very low expectations for and sometimes a 7 out of 10 is kind of a bummer because I see greatness in the movie and it didn't fully deliver me greatness but it was still good but I thought it could be better Crime 101 was the one I was like man had really good reviews the cast is awesome and I just think the story could have been better i think but is that what is or and hulk yes like the act sounds worse i mean mark ruffalo halle berry barry keoghan's in it as well and it's like cool and it has this like old school heist style to it that i dig and it's shot gorgeous it's a beautiful looking movie it just didn't hit on all the levels i think it could have hit that's just me though i don't know it's again not a bad movie i just thought it could have been a great movie at the halfway point i don't know if it's subpar writing or just chris hemsworth being miscast but like he's giving me nothing the first half of this movie he is giving me absolutely nothing the accent is so weird and it's a weird accent it flops back and forth from like australian to midwestern to texan and just like at no point is one of those things sometimes like he'll hit all three of them in one sentence i love my guy chris hemsworth he's great in a lot of things just feels either miscast or underwritten for this like there's just so much and again i'm only halfway through but like i've seen him go on two dates and he said three that have taken up 15 20 minutes and he said three words in the entirety of those two dates it always makes me wonder when i see stuff like that like why like just have him be australian like what does like he has to be an english i think about that with idris elba all the time like i mean i feel like there's changed recently but it's like he always has to play an american dude it's like just let him be british what i don't understand why like sometimes they force act like unless it's you know like tom holland playing spider-man you're like he's an american character so that like i get but it's just a new character for but just let him be australian bro this is why why go through all that trouble well i've seen him do like an english accent well but i think it's like this weird kind of certain accent they're trying to them that doesn't work it just like tj says it kind of like fluctuates between all these weird different ones and you're kind of like is this on purpose or is he forgetting like what I don't know what's going on there I love I love Hemsworth too but I do think he has a very he has a specific like I don't want to say talent set but like there's specific roles he really shines in but others I think like TJ was saying it's just not the right fit it's hard with this one because he's supposed to play this he's confident in himself when it comes to his ability of like being able to pull off these heists and he's obviously very proficient and knowledgeable in that. But as being a human, he's very not confident, which is like, if you look like Chris Hemsworth, there's no way you feel that way about yourself. It's like the Barbie line where it's like, director's note, it probably would be better if Margot Robbie wasn't cast for this scene. She's talking about how ugly she feels. I actually got a hint of that in eternity as well because obviously like there's elizabeth olsen choosing between two men the one guy i think what's named callum turner he's like obviously incredibly like objectively handsome right like he's just like you look up handsome and it's just like that's what that's what they look like but there's so many lines in that movie where it's like oh miles teller you're the consolation prize you're the ugly guy you're average at best and it's like well miles teller is actually still movie star handsome this i don't think you guys are hitting on this point you're trying to make i do actually get that point from that movie i got the point of the circumstances of that movie that made more sense yeah there's so many times everybody's looking at him he's like oh you you punched up you you clearly uh you clearly are the one reaching in this relationship and then it's like look at his real life wife man she's also beautiful that's it's just Miles Teller can you imagine being an actor and like your cast as like the ugly person that's gotta be rough I just watched Pizza Movie as we have a new edition for today's show our guy Jam home from work joining us to talk some Invincible hell yes while we're on that point I wanted to quickly say man that's like such a big plot point in Pizza Movie is Gatton, why can I never remember his name Matanzaro? Matanzaro, is that his name? Matanzaro, yeah He is like a whole thing in the movie is everybody calling him ugly throughout the entire movie. They call him freaky face. It's just like, like I get like you're acting and it's like, you know, they don't really mean it. But that's still got to be like, damn, I got typecasted as the ugly person. Yeah, exactly. Yeah, well, I don't know if they said ugly. They had a weird face, which I guess could be one of the same. Yes. Like, I usually don't have this behind when I'm potting with you guys. like on agents i usually don't have the robe and like the back the candy cane back pillow try to keep a professional and i just literally just made it home from work so it's like i i'm sorry i forgot it you guys gotta see the back pillow candy canes are welcome here man we're just happy you were able to join us bro we've been trying to get you on yo mom so the reason i was able to make it was my actual i should have told you tj i didn't even think about it my boss was like he's gone for the week he's doing like another he's at a hospital somewhere like in Virginia Beach and so I've been at the warehouse the office by myself the whole week and I was just like today yeah I've had enough it was a day and so I was just like I'm out and I see y'all were on I haven't even watched the episode by the way but I'm okay it's okay because I don't care about spoilers and things like I just wanted to vibe and kind of like I mean I read the comics I know enough you know and thor will will fill me in wherever else but i need to show up for one invincible episode and this is like probably the only one i'll be able to make it for so thank you guys for having me as always man well yeah same time and place for the boys tomorrow if you are able to get off at the same time copy copy hell yeah well even though you haven't seen the episode jam you are a fellow student of the book of mark as i am so you'll i'm sure that you'll remember a lot of what we're talking about here so you can at least give our uh you know the comic side of things and kind of how you feel they went about things as we talk about it but uh excluding jam really quickly uh spoiler free reactions for the i mean jam you've probably seen a trailer so you can give a reaction if you've seen that but what do we think of episode six So we left off Mark getting his guts ripped out, possibly dead. Nolan Oliver trapped on a bug planet. And we open up here to the Viltrumite War is full on in swing. So, Sean, we'll start with you first. What were your what's your non-spoiler reaction for this episode? Another really good episode, you know, not much else to say than that. like a solid another episode that has some really great action paired with some amazing character stuff at the same time uh i love what they do with the grayson family in the in this episode and yeah good episode solid episode it's hard because episode five is such a banger and so much wild stuff happens that it is not to say that this is less than but you know it's not the same level but not every episode should be that level that would make everything really boring because everything would be at a 10 and it wouldn't make sense but this is just another like really good episode to help set up the continuing war that has now started for sure 100 i definitely i love the episode but definitely major setup for kind of what's to come tj what did you think of episode six especially after the devastating ending of episode five a necessary kind of to sean's point not necessarily the most exciting episode but really necessary one like we needed to deal with the fallout of episode five mark just had his guts ripped out of his stomach in one of the worst fights we had ever seen there had to be some kind of rest recuperation and build us back up after we just got torn down and so a necessary episode not necessarily the most action exciting one but like also to sean's point some great character work and one that is needed before things ramp back up for this for this all-out war jam again i know you haven't seen the episode but you know where we're at as far as the comic storyline goes so i want to ask you one your reaction of again the the whole conquest thing with mark and how we left him and how you're approaching this new episode my favorite thing um honestly from the last episode was uh mark kind of giving it to conquest telling him he's like so you're gonna tell me all your deepest feelings again i busted out laughing so good i was like that to me was like me fighting like I'm the entire way when I fight like if I like when I'm like the old young jam in New York like I'm antagonizing you I'm I'm letting you know I know everything about you and so when I've seen that I was like oh I feel that on a personal level like it was great I love it um and it also just made me feel like kind of show how far Mark has come in that moment right like from being like fearful to I can't handle this to like I don't care what your feelings are you know what I mean I thought that was a really funny parallel but getting into this episode I think when I watched you guys last week um I think it was Sean were you with them last week also I think it was you Sean mentioned how like grotesque the breathing aspect felt like when he the the more Marcus try like you feel every breath I think it was something like that you said Sean And when I heard you guys mention that, for me, that's the only thing I have been thinking about since. Because you don't, you see, you know, you feel that, as you said, we're scholars, what was it, Book of Mark scholars? Students of the Book of Mark. Students of the Book of Mark. Like, we get that scene, but it's so much more expanded here in the show that I felt it, man. I feel it, the heavy breathing, the sounds, all of that. Those gushy, like, ugh. You know, like, it really felt like, and I always, I know TJ is tired of me hearing me saying this, other TJ, this TJ in this corner, but I know he's tired of hearing me say this, but like, at this point, everything is starting to feel like an anime, man. Like, everything feels like they're just, like, anime has become so popular that they're like, you know what, let's take a little bit of this, a little bit of this, a little bit, and that's kind of what I feel like Invincible has done specifically in that moment. getting to where you mentioned in our private chat here where we are in this episode spoiler free um sean mentioned it there's a lot of character work and i think as you mentioned as well i think tj mentioned it it's needed but for me i think it's more of a without spoilers it's two characters that you how do i word this it's two characters that i feel like not only is it needed but it's feels good to see it's a relationship that it's there's a lot of times in writing and in shows movies video games books whatever where you're forced to put two characters together and then they just so happen to like each other for the sake of the plot but i feel like with this situation because it's so interpersonal it feels good it's like a feel-good situation so the way i look at it as in an anime right when you have those filler episodes where it's just like that fun time at the beach this isn't that but it feels like that in the comics at least it feels like that fun time at the beach because these characters are coming together like they need to and so that's kind of how i look at getting from that last episode are you really buying a car online on auto trader right now really i can get super specific with dealer listings and see cars based on my budget you can really have it delivered or pick it up mommy i think kid is walking up the slide really auto trader buy your car online really to where we are now without seeing without seeing the episode well i mean you're trying to tell me we're on ember island right now basically basically i'm just or or or for our pokemon fans here we're on orange island just because we have a little bit more battles it like to your point like and slight spoiler but this can year spoiler warning for invincible season four episode uh episode six we needed or not necessarily we needed but the nolan and oliver sit down was a long time coming yeah there these two characters had a lot unsaid between them that they really had to sit down and hash out a hundred percent that's what i was gonna say jam you hit the nail on the head especially with nolan and oliver which i think leads us perfectly into the episode because that's kind of where we start off but really quickly we have to talk about uh thrag thrag and thadis so the true so the true opening of this episode is we start off with both of them giving their war speeches to their to their army so we have thadis meeting with the other leaders of the coalition and we also have thrag talking to the Viltrumites basically just, you know, it's on Thrag is, you know, basically says the coalition doesn't have an ass chance in hell at doing anything. Like we are going to wipe the floor with them. And I, this is kind of our first, we've seen Thrag. We he's had like maybe two lines in the previous episode, but this is kind of his first speech. And I feel like, like big introduction. So, uh, Jam, you haven't seen the episode yet. So, Sean, we'll start with you on this one again. What did you think of Thrags? Like I said, our kind of first real look at Thrag. It was hard because going into this, I was kind of like, obviously, the Viltrumites, even against everything the coalition has kind of gathered up and mustered together to form their ragtag group of, you know, guardians of Thrags. the fucking universe or whatever. Yeah. You're still like, oh, these guys are a lot to take on still, even though there's, you know, very dwindled numbers. Every time they face one, there's always collateral damage in some way, shape, or form. And I'm like, okay, everyone respects this guy. Everyone follows this guy's orders. And I love that they cast Lee Pace as the voice because his voice is so sick. And it's funny because that's kind of why he was cast for The Running Man, too, because his face is like not shown in the movie at all barely i think at the very end it gets shown or whatever uh and it's like mostly his physicality and his voice like that's his whole performance in that so he's even done this a similar thing in live action too and he's awesome uh and it's ronan also too like guardians yes yes yes wasted character but you know wait he's ronan lee pace is ronin yeah man and he's uh i think philand philandril something in uh the hobbit movies blazing elf wow which he he freaking killed that as well again you can imagine that voice the only thing i knew him from was foundation i didn't had no clue he was ronin and now that i see it i'm like oh wow that is definitely yeah yeah it's crazy too to sean to your point is like even if i didn't know that his voice has such a presence like it's obviously thrag is an animated person but the voice it like when he's standing in front of those veltramites i think you really feel like oh this this dude he's that dude for sure tj what did you think yeah it is i like bringing in the biggest of the bads when it comes to the veltramites here it is very exciting considering we've had four seasons of building up to this point like this is the biggest thing that we've been building towards in the four seasons so far so it's really cool that we're finally getting there and kind of like you guys had just talked about it seems like they have dwindling numbers it seems like how big of a threat could they be if there's only this many of them and then you think of it in the context of any other superhero universe where it's if there are 50 supermen but you don't have any magic users or kryptonite it doesn't matter how big your army is you lose yeah you know what I mean like the whole thing is they take over planets single handedly like that is their mission so I mean they have I sure a lot of those planets had their version of the Guardians of the Globe or the Avengers or whatever So yeah a couple of them just one of them can take out an entire planet easily And it is very exciting to me to see one that we like, we don't know the depths of his power yet. You know, unless we've read the comics, we have no idea what his ceiling is. you know, at this point, I guess the strongest Viltrumite we've seen is probably on the good side. It's probably Nolan at this point, you know, there's Conquest, there's a few others, but like, Nolan's kind of that guy. And so to have someone come in and just like, as far as we know, he's even stronger, that's, that's scary. well i will say uh this and this is not a spoiler for anybody i i have not seen the next episode yet but thrag is 100 stronger than nolan uh that's like a 100 fact i don't know if i want to like get into the whole like history in case we see more of that but jam i do want to ask you coming from the comic oh go ahead tj i was gonna say throw this to jam as well since both of you have read the comics don't give me any history don't give me any spoilers or any background but like power rank the viltrumites in terms of like who is if there was a tournament a single like from this point where we're currently at you mean a single fighter fight to the death tournament who would be the one seed who would be the two seed that's that's the thing sparing a lot of history stuff that's exactly how thrag became the strongest when the viltrumites when argyle was killed they all just started killing each other to cull the weak and thrag emerged as the strongest and no one could beat him or kill him so he took the he's basically okay you all follow me now and they're like okay i get like we cannot do anything to you so yeah i guess so so yeah i you hit it on the head that's exactly what happened they had a fight to the death and thrag came out on top but jam you knowing again how powerful thrag is and kind of his whole deal what uh kind of give us a little bit of insight from your perspective of how screwed the coalition are right now like we just like tj and sean were just talking about like the viltrumites might have small numbers but we know how insanely powerful and while fadus gives a great speech i mean can they really do anything yeah they're uh they're effed they're effed uh quite frankly to me it's funny that you guys feel this way about lee pace because i didn't at first when he was when when he was uh announced like that he was gonna be lee pace as the voice of drag i was like because i like him a lot and um he's day he plays day in foundation and i think he he does have a very like imposing and like just like a really awesome voice like he does but i didn't see it for drag like i didn't or i didn't envision i didn't hear it and then last episode when you hear those two or three lines i'm like oh yeah this is drag this is it so i'm already just as As somebody who, again, hasn't seen the episode, I'm envisioning this speech because I know it sounds awesome. I know how awesome it is. But yeah, the best way I could explain it, I guess for TJ, I don't know if Sean, if you ever watched. I'm sure you have. You're an anime guy too. You watch Shizu Kaijin. But the best way I could explain it through anime terms, this is Frieza, bro. And you know how scary the Namek Saga Frieza was. Like they had a whole arc of this is Emperor Frieza and the Frieza force. That's kind of how I feel like Thrag is. It's Thrag to me, and that's how I feel like a lot of Invincible, I always kind of pair them. Always people talk about like Superman and like they're Kryptonians, but I always think of them as like Saiyans more. Like they literally go, they're sent to planets, maybe not as a young age as babies, right? But they're still sent to planets to take over. That's what the Saiyans do. that's what they're literally mercenaries right so um that's what i've always thought of it and i've always looked at drag as frieza as far as power scaling though i mean like tj you uh thor hit it on the money well with what you were saying tj it's just like a a full battle royale to the death like and and then this is what's left and yeah you guys like he said you're gonna follow me now so yeah drag is number one i would say where we're at right now i without spoiling anything for the future or like uh revealing any history anything i feel like what we've seen in context right like what we know of like how the viltrumites talk about nolan it's probably nolan at number two and then i would have said conquest at three but i mean we just seen mark kill conquest so yeah we did we had a whole debate about this off uh off pod a couple days ago about if Conquest is stronger than Nolan or not, which could be a whole episode in itself. I do think that's a good, like, because we could probably, we know a little bit more, but even still with what we know, I feel like it's a great debate regardless. Like it's a debate for sure. Straight up strength at this point, I would kind of assume Mark is among the weaker ones, but he's got that dog in him in ways that all the rest of them don't. He's got, like, Debbie has instilled something in that boy that the rest of these Viltrumites don't have. Humanity, baby. Humanity. That's a true strength. But speaking... That does make me kind of consider, because I had always wondered, man, if this is the Frieza arc, because I had always kind of thought Mark would eventually be the one to beat Throg, right? Now I'm realizing... no, Mark's Gohan. He's not taking everybody down until we get to the Cell Saga. He's not there yet. No one's gonna die. No one is gonna die defeating Threg. He's gonna sacrifice himself in some way. And I think no one's gonna die like Goku and get sent to the afterlife. And that's who's gonna end up taking down Threg. I don't watch anime, so that was all gibberish to me. but i will not spoil anything but i will say that was a very good analogy even though i don't know anything of what you just said it was a good analogy it was it was good but speaking of planet but go but but then nolan is gonna give drag a spirit bomb and that's where it's gonna oh my god could you just real quick side you just imagine like beams and like like key not Not necessarily key, but like just energy beams coming from Viltrumites. Just, oh my. Like something Adam and Eve could do, which means a little bit. But just, oh. That's what I'm saying. That seems to me if Adam and Eve, if Adam and Eve, if Adam and Eve and Mark actually conceive this child. They've already conceived the baby, but like this little fetus actually turns into a baby. Franklin Richards. But different. I know how this is going to end. It's going to be just like Dune. The baby is going to age super fast, faster than even Oliver. And he, if it is a he, I don't even know, will defeat Craig. It'll be the baby. It'll be the baby! I like it. There you go. I always use Franklin Richards as a comparison. But if this baby, I'm wanting it to be Superman with a green lantern ring like that's essentially what I'm hoping for out of this baby Superman and Wanda Maximoff everyone might as well just tune out now because you guys nailed it man that's exactly how it ends I actually wrote Invincible I don't know if you guys do this I am Robert Kirkman I just shamed so you wouldn't recognize me yeah I think there might be a lawsuit in there with how much you guys know about the ending that's the show so we'll see you guys we'll see you guys later we'll see you guys next week no all seriousness we have speaking of strong viltrumites and who is the strongest viltrumite yada yada yada we do get a little funeral for our sad boy conquest nolan gives him a little funeral which pisses off oliver and i totally get because like screw that guy but nolan does i think have a very interesting reaction and he basically says you know yeah he's a piece of shit but he was still a viltrumite and we talked a lot about this in the previous episodes of you know nolan on his redemption arc going back against the viltrumite dogma but to me this felt like a little sign that there's still a little bit of that still in there and like you know but i also can kind of see what he's saying so tj we'll start off with you on this one how did you take that scene do you one does i don't i think we can all say no to this but it should should he have given him a burial and do you think that this is an indication that nolan could potentially go back into his viltrumite ways i don't necessarily think it is going to be a catalyst for a big backslide but i do think it is a sign that there is some of that patriotism and that pride for his planet and his race that hasn't totally dissipated because from his own perspective it seems like he's doing something noble yes oh this is such a bad guy but he was from my planet and so i will give him respect any other perspective though it's like hey i know he was a bad guy but he was also still a genocidal maniac it's like well what like what do you he's also still this yeah this thing that you're calling him we all hate that we all hate that thing that thing just ruined our whole universe and so from anybody else's perspective it's like nolan the whole point of this growth is supposed to be you separating yourself from this belief system. From his perspective, I get it, but it also shows me that he's not all the way out of it yet. 100% Sean. Same question. What do you think? Let me give you a really good comparison for this. At the end of Return of the Jedi, even though, I'm not going to say Vader redeems himself because he was still Space Nazi. Let's be real. You can't really redeem yourself for that. Yes, he turns, whatever. He still gets a proper burial, funeral. It's just Luke, but he still gets it. Does that make Luke any less of the hero? No, but two differences. I would say, yeah, I think there's a big difference there. One, it's his father. One, it's his father. Two, Anakin Skywalker was the hero of heroes pre Darth Vader. Yeah, that's how I took it. They were buried Anakin, not Darth Vader. Hold on, hold on. I have two And if you want to triple down on it, I would say Conquest would deserve a funeral if he took out Thrag and ended the war. Damn, I got three devil advocates. One in favor of Sean. I got one in favor of Sean. To Sean's major point that I think we're bypassing, right? it doesn't matter if you were the hero of heroes you were the nazi it's kind of like how i look at everything's going on with kanye like he's selling out stadiums and everything and it's like and it's like but are we gonna forget that he said all of this stuff no i don't look at i look anakin is my favorite character in all of our star wars and i always say myself personally if my lady is pregnant with twins and there's they're telling me to kill these kids and that will help save her man give me the lightsaber right now i'm gonna save my i'm gonna save my wife i i he did nothing wrong at all but do we agree with that like no like that's not so but the other thing the other thing with it is like that is the other school of thought with that is like are darth vader and anakin skywalker the same person or is anakin did anakin skywalker die when darth vader was born see that's how i did anakin did some heinous shit as anakin before he was well that was that was after i mean if we're talking clone wars as well there's no jedi in the history of the jedi that has saved as many lives as anakin skywalker and that was all after he was dubbed darth vader by plagueis I will say that. No, no, no. He did all that after. He killed a whole – no, no, no. Before the kids. Oh, the sand people. Yeah, the sand. Okay. He did kill the sand people. I just – I don't know. I get that whole Darth Vader and Anakin are separate thing. They had his mom. I just can't align with that personally because, yes, they are separate in the sense of the story being told, right? Like what they're trying to portray and the metaphors behind the two. But they're the same person. It's the same person, which is why he – and this is why – this is my challenge to their two separate people. They can't be the same – they can't be two separate people because if they were two separate people, then he couldn't be redeemed. He was redeemed. He was able to be redeemed because they are the same individual. So I do blame Anakin as much as I blame Darth Vader. As much as I love Anakin, and he is, to TJ's point, you're right, he is the hero of heroes, he still has to get blamed for everything that Darth Vader did, regardless of his redeeming. Now, on the flip side of that, that's why I said I have two devil advocate things here. Yes, Conquest is a genocidal, like, bad, murdering guy. Oh, we lost Sean. but I feel like the opposite of what you guys feel actually like the fact that Nolan did that like gave him kind of like the the burial to me doesn't actually feel like he has those Viltrumite ways in him still to me it actually because I to me it feels like those Viltrumite ways would be like all right fuck it like i don't care about this person or he's dead whatever we all die we have the weak die or whatever to me it feels almost more humanizing like and the humanity within him the change that debbie set within nolan to care for one of his kind to care for a being other than just the people that are that he grew to love yeah it's his it's his culture and it's his history and it's somebody that he used to have ties to in a way right but it feels more humanizing like to bury this person that i genuinely despise that i genuinely just because they're just and it's just because he is a viltrumite because most viltrumites would say all right conquest like drag i don't think drag is burying conquest right drag even said i won't give you reward like he Conquest is like, kill me. I deserve death. And he's like, no, I won't reward failure. He's like, you're going to continue working for me and doing X, Y, and Z. But if Conquest died, they're not burying him. So I actually look at it on the flip side where it humanizes Nolan a little bit to want to bury somebody like that. I think you have a point there, Jam, because at least from my memory, I can't remember any reference or scene of Viltrumites burying their dead. I mean, we saw in the episode and in the comic, they literally throw their bodies around the fucking planet. So, yeah, I think that's actually a really good point I didn't consider. But we got to talk. So we're on this bug planet. We talk about conquest. A lot of this episode takes place on this little bug planet. And we see TJ, you mentioned this at the top. But Oliver has major beef with Nolan, which, again, rightfully so. And a lot of the episode is kind of Nolan trying but failing to bond with his son. And we get the, not bombshell, but reveal that Oliver heard what Nolan said about his mom to Debbie when he was trying to get himself out of the doghouse. And which, poof, brutal. So I want to start off there, TJ. We'll start with you again. And what, again, we've talked a little bit in the previous episodes about how Oliver is getting a lot more say in what his act, what he's doing and what he's going to do. So what did you think about this little dynamic of him having heard of what Nolan said, just adding to the already animosity he had towards him for not wanting to come see him in the first place? Two different feelings about it. One, this is just another great example of, Nolan's got some shit to eat before he can be redeemed. Like, it doesn't matter. We talk about it every week. It doesn't matter that he's ready to change. It matters, but not to the people that he has hurt. To the people he has hurt, it is on their timeline when he gets forgiven, not his timeline. And so this was just like some more shit that Nolan had to eat for the bad things that he's done, for the way he's treated Oliver, his mother, and just essentially not being there. the other aspect I thought was interesting was it kind of was a common tv movie trope conversation of like a teen mother trying to tell her daughter like I don't want you to make the same mistakes that I did oh so you're saying I was a mistake no that's not what I mean like the inability in that situation to like poorly worded by the parent and the child's inability to differentiate my parents love for me doesn't mean that their life wasn't also very difficult because of where they were at this stage in life um and it's not a one for one obviously because nolan wasn't a pregnant teen mom he was a crazy crazy murderous monster uh stopping on a planet to say hi but similar parallels with that of like a i'm not saying oliver that it was a mistake that you were here i'm happy that you're here i'm happy that you're alive i'm happy you were born it was a mistake that i was even there in the first place like i shouldn't have been endangering these people shouldn't have been there doing this a hundred percent and that's something that i really loved about this scene is how it's more focused on andressa and like what nolan did on thraxa how that affected obviously oliver's life which is pretty new for the show in the book they poor andressa dude like uh oliver like mentions her very briefly nolan's basically like yeah she was cool but you know debbie though and like it's very much like focused on debbie and i like that I get it. And we love Debbie, but I like how they flip that dynamic here to, again, emphasize what Nolan has done. Sean, what do you think? Do you think that Oliver should cut him some slack or give him more help? No, definitely not cut him slack. I think this is what Nolan needed to hear, especially from him. And, you know, like he was trying to, like, play the martyr. And even Mark called him out on that last episode of being like, hey, you're making this about you. and it's got to be about them. You know what I mean? And him being like, I wanted you to save me from me. I wanted to save you from myself and all this stuff. Mark's like, you're making it about you. It's supposed to be about them. Exactly what TJ has been saying. They have to be ready to forgive them also. But it was good that they finally, I mean, they were kind of forced to have this conversation, obviously, because they're stuck on this planet and mark is you know slowly regenerating slash kind of still dying you know and i love how he's just like in the background just like uh and the nolan and oliver is like chowing down on space bugs and yeah space goo and whatever they're eating and you know but it was it's it's i i can't it's a moving to the point that we've made this whole season about how oliver still has those kid-like qualities but he does have this very mature side to him as well and you see that in this episode too because even when Nolan finally kind of finds the right words and really expresses what he really meant to say not what he was saying just to get forgiveness then he started to understand and then they started to both understand each other and grow to value their relationship with each other and that's beautiful and that's like kind of to add to the point which she was making, but then also kind of went past that point of like the teenager and the parent because they grew to have an understanding. And sometimes that does happen, but that's kind of like a third act thing. This all happens in the span of the same like 20 minutes, you know, which is a very, I think, probably more realistic, I think, approach to it as to being like, oh, yeah, the climax needs to enhance this decision for them to understand each other when it's like, no, a conversation can do that. And that's exactly what happens. I mean there obviously some great bonding between them fighting and stuff which served as an outlet at first but it was probably something Oliver does need especially when he going up to people he going to be going up against But yeah, I loved the Nolan Oliver stuff. So I thought it was great. Yeah. And I love the parallel to, like you said, once they do kind of make up a little bit and Nolan starts training him, the clear parallel from season one, when he was training Mark and they were in the sky and, you know, he was training him out of fight. And I love that little addition, additional scene there. Jam, again, coming from the comics, you I'm sure you remember what we're talking about. And, you know, from what we've just talked about, you can kind of see the differences here. But as you know, in the book, Oliver is like, very, like, very much just like, like, let's have fun. And like, he doesn't really have any animosity towards Nolan at all. So what do you think about the change here of, like, again, really focusing on what one having Oliver have this beef with Nolan and kind of having them reconcile that? yeah to sean's point i think it's uh it's just better to have that that way because as you said in books he's just like everything is about nolan i wear this oh because of nolan and i like that scene last episode too where uh invincible is like mark is just like what do you think he wears the o for it's not it's not oliver like so i i do i do love that little callback but i think to have him mention and dress a little bit more like you mentioned earlier i think that's important too um because everything it feels like focuses so much in the comics especially as like nolan is just accepted but like i don't want to say that he's accepted back immediately i i it I don't know if I feel that like I feel like there's some apprehension but it's more so like because the book had to get to the next arc if if you say like they had to look I mean we couldn't spend a whole issue on Oliver and Nolan just hanging I mean we get a lot of what we see in the show but it's just kind of one page one panel here yeah and I feel like I feel like that happens a lot and like with debbie's situation too in the comics it's like they get this one moment where it's like she gets to express how she feels when it's like she's hitting like or she's like banging on his chest or something like that and then that's it and then like everything else after this so i like i like that scene what was it was that also last episode or was that two episodes ago where where she punches him in his last episode right so like the stuff that they're doing with nolan now getting to this bug planet and like it's happening with oliver too i think it happened with art as well last episode i think we're getting a different side that kirkman wanted to tell in the comics and he tried to like give a little sprinkle with context but because he had to get to the next thing and also when you're reading comics it's kind of like you need that catch-em page you need that stuff that's gonna catch them whether it's action whether it's just a a big panel like a spread page of awesome art that's like a landscape or whatever you always need those things so i feel like because he's trying to move everything forward we only got a little bit of that whereas in a show you can expand that so much further and it feels like they're going into in more depth it feels like nolan actually has to pay and he he's not just getting accepted back in opposed to in the books where it's happening in like a two or three chapter two or three issues you know what i mean like i also think it gives oliver a lot more kind of like in the earlier seasons when we first get introduced to Oliver and we're all nervous if like especially me and you as book readers we're nervous if he's gonna kill those kids that he was having fun outside playing with because he's in the in the books he's a little shit which wasn't a legitimate thought that I had I was like oh he's gonna kill these kids yeah he's a little shit in the book so in in the show he's a lot more bearable um they make him more I don't want to say bearable that's a bad choice of words so forgive me he's uh he's more likable redeeming better word he's more redeeming he's more likable um and so i i love that right now like that if they're having this full long talk or to sean uh to sean's point you said it was like 20 minutes all happening within 20 minutes but it's within an episode like they gave it a full like half of an episode almost it makes oliver's story and it makes oliver's from what we know later on it makes this moment now it hits so much harder if you if you know where i'm going with with certain stuff right like so i feel like it makes not only oliver more likable it makes it more redeemable but like the whole store show has but it sets up for like sean and tj and people that don't know what's coming it sets up i just got i want you guys to remember that moment this moment because it sets up something heavy to at least to what i believe yeah it definitely kind of sets the stage for Oliver's continued character growth as we see because I mean we know the kid ages like five years and two days so next season I he'll probably be a decent amount older than we see him right now and I do we gotta move on to some of the you know the big stuff but I do want to mention because this was one of my favorite scenes of this issue in the comics and just a hilarious scene but when he's telling Nolan about how he went to dinner with Debbie and Paul and he thought he was attracted to the lobster at dinner which I just think is absolutely hilarious and just a reminder it's because he is a half bug basically so he his uh what do they call it like what he's attracted to is not what you're you know a human would be and I just thought the way that he says that it made him feel fuzzy was just so fucking funny gotta say big week for lobsters what who else had oh yeah dude oh man i wish we could talk about that that was so freaking cool but speaking of other cool things leaving oliver and nolan on the bug planet like i said we flash back and forth between this for a good while but while that's going on we have everyone else fighting a goddamn war and across the universe so we get a lot of tech jacket alan speed racer we get the return of battle beast and we kind of just get a good couple montages of just them beating the shit out of the viltrumites army excuse me that we saw them bring in as backup in last episode with conquest so i mean nothing really to like break down as much here but just I mean, how cool was it seeing all these little side characters getting their moment? And like we talked about in the beginning of this episode, we all thought that the coalition was absolutely screwed, but our little coalition suicide squad is able to turn the tides. Viltrumites start quickly losing territories. Sean, I'll start off with you on this one. Again, just how cool was it seeing all these little side characters get a little bit more time to shine? Yeah. It was awesome. It's so cool seeing everything kind of like fully in action and seeing kind of what this whole show has been building to, you know what I mean? Like everything's finally coming together and it's all playing out in front of us. And I think that's what's made this season so impactful. I mean obviously it's very well written and very well thought out and planned out especially from adapting from Source and Jail to what it is but I think a big part of why at least this season is so impactful for me it's such a big payoff for so many things all at once and you know it's like you can never know what to expect in Invincible I feel like and I'm sure that was what it was like reading the comics too because as you go episode to episode like it feels so unpredictable to be honest of what's happening and it's just so cool to see everything you know everything's coming together until it all blows apart again and then it comes together like it's it's just it's so sick i love how this show is structured because it feels kind of unlike any other show other than maybe some anime and stuff but like just the way it fits so much in and the way it pays off so many things and consistently keeps paying them off or bringing in the back and stuff like that it's awesome so they're long episodes but it's genuinely shocking how jam-packed they are yeah like it feels like three episodes i kind of actually wish that instead of this being an eight episode season these were 25 minute episodes and it was a 20 episode season just because i miss that style of television but yeah it is wild how much they pack into each episode yeah and i totally agree sean it's so cool seeing how like all of these pieces finally coming together i mean we've we saw nolan and alan break battle beast out of the vilch my prison obviously nolan and alan have kind of developed this friendship we just got introduced to check jacket which she did pop up in the invincible war so seeing us like you said just like all the pieces kind of come together is just and i to tj's point as well with the pacing it's just very satisfying i think it's the show does a good job of setting things up and giving us a satisfying payoff jam coming from the comic book side of things again we see we see little flashes of this but like you just said it's very much like boom one thing boom another boom boom boom and in the book we kind of really just get to the viltrumites attack on telescria which we'll get to in just a second but i know you haven't seen it yet but what do you think about again allowing these characters to get a little bit more time to shine i love it i love i think that's one thing that a manga does a lot too getting translated into anime is like when you have whether it's one fight or it's a bunch like a war anytime you can expand those panels into more scenes more animation it just makes the fight feel more lived in um i i think famously to the uh demon slayer manga and then the anime that everybody always goes crazy for there's a specific fight that always goes viral on uh social media where it's the sound hashira versus this specific demon and in the manga that is one panel it's one panel it's literally just this one little square but in the anime they made they extended it to like a 15 maybe 17 minute full-fledged fight so shout out to the animation studio ufo uh ufo table i believe it is ufotable something like that that did this because anytime you can do so you take one panel and expand it so i think makes me think about invincible where go back to a season was it two when we see mark have to fight for his life on the bug planet versus the two viltrumites where you see all of those panels in the comic it's that spread page right and it's like all the square boxes and they do it like in a flash quick sequence in the in the show i think about stuff like that that's kind of what i'm feeling like this did in invincible is that one scene where they go take on telestria but now you're getting to see way more characters give them more growth give them more interactions and moments fights which also makes them aura form and feel more cooler you know what i mean like all that cool stuff so i think it's fun man anytime you get to do anything something similar like that to me um is a blast and i just it gives the voice actors more time to shine a little bit too you know not just like the art and animation team or the story but gives the voice actors to kind of flex their their vocals a little bit yeah i really like too i feel like for viewers of the show whether you've read the comics or not it does for me i think it helps kind of give a little bit better idea of the timeline of how this is going because like you said in the book it's like page by page very quickly but here seeing you know battle beast and all of them kind of doing these separate battles here and there kind of gives you an idea like they've been fighting like while mark and all them are off on this planet they are very much holding the line which i think again just kind of adds to the weight of how massive this war is i was about to say it adds to the sense of scale right great thank you that's kind of what i was looking for yes perfect way to say it's sense of scale and speaking of sense of scale that's exactly what we get in this episode the viltrumites officially attack telescria which i've i've said to lesbio a couple times now but in case you don't know that is the home planet for the coalition like their home base and just all hell breaks loose the villager mites just start decimating the planet bodies flying everywhere we get a saving private ryan moment with alan's girlfriend just like walking through just devastation and i mean it's just awesome awesome fight sequence tj again going back to the pacing of it it's just intense It's brutal. We have our heroes, Alan, Thedas, Techjacket, all those trying their best. We were just talking about can they stand against the Viltrumites. They are basically getting their asses handed to them by like three of them. But, of course, our Invincible Boys show up and save the day. So before we get to the conclusion of this fight, just again, TJ, I'll start with you first. one how brutal the Viltrumite's initial attack was and how psyched were you when Mark and all them popped up did that surprise you or was it like yeah you know they're gonna come save the day at the end I know these analogies and comparisons aren't exactly hitting for you but like hey I'm here I'm here for the ride baby um Sean have you watched Dragon Ball Z yeah I don't know what you going with this this feels like when goku gets back to fight vegeta after training uh with king kai for so long and he had to run along the the road to get all the way back after training with king kai he just learned kaioken and now he's got to go back to fight the saiyans that are on earth that's what this feels like hey our training is done we are healed here healed we are back here to kick some ass and to like keep it on the dragon ball z front this is the style of battle and storytelling that i'm interested in in this type of scenario like yes the ever like the galaxy wide war stuff is interesting but like there's no way they're ever going to get it in depth as in depth with that as like star wars where we've seen from so many different projects so many different angles the intricacies of politics the intricacies of the rebellion we're not going to get that here what i want is my three invincible boys daddius thetus whatever his name is battle beast daddius is what i said i just heard uh and uh speed racer or even you don't even need speed racer maybe just give tech jacket speed racers gun and you're good to go but everyone could just use the gun tj geez yeah you have to have a link my bad my bad but maybe tech jacket could jesus a gildarian tj come on ah i'm sorry but i i want to see that squad line up against all gildarians are like wow all gildarians are that's crazy tj canceled and i don't know if is helping my case but i don't even remember what a goldarian is uh that's actually where tech jacket gets it her armor so but his tj uh thor you're also okay i'm just saying tech jacket seems talented enough that if you were to take speed racers gun and just integrate it into her suit i think that would be cool as hell that would be sick honestly that makes me think speed racer and tech jacket would be an awesome little team up like if they could go on some adventures together that would be cool but i mean i 100 agree tj we're not going to get into all of it but you know this fight for me it's just satisfying on all levels we get our boys coming in saving the day we get some awesome i i love the shot of nolan just like rocking the shit out of craig just like boom like just it was so such a good little uh freeze frame there and uh sean i mean same question just how awesome was it seeing all this chaos going around and again we get a good example of how even not evenly matched these two factions are yeah it was great it's like you know again it's like another awesome culmination moment finally especially with the Grayson Invincible boys coming into the fray and joining the fight it's good to see and it was awesome to see Thedas finally in action because it's like you find out he's a Viltrumite last season right and you kind of forget he's a Viltrumite you know what I mean and then you see him and you're like oh yeah he's one of that again man he's he's i'm glad that you brought that up though sean because there's a point i do want to make when jam uh call them fatty or whatever the hell yeah daddy is but a little nitpick i have for the show so this plays out almost exactly like the comic again a little bit more expanded on some of the fight but one of my favorite parts and i always remember this when i read it the first time because i thought it was hilarious but thetis is like so jacked so like he like the the filter might crush the building like they do in the show and he comes out of the rubble and he's just like just like ripped and shredded which i mean he's pretty jacked in the show but not like in the comic and i was a little disappointed they didn't make him as like literally i don't know if you guys watch the simpsons but it's like like how uh groundskeeper willie is just like unexplicably jacked when he rips his shirt off like that's what that fetus is like in the comic so little missed opportunity there but jam one my one avatar reference it's like when uncle iroh takes off takes off those thick robes when he's been training in the fire nation so very similar daddy is daddy is is not daddy is i mean he's i like he's definitely fit like don't get me wrong dudes you know in great shape but like jam you might remember that panel from the comics he's just like i want to be when i get old that's what i want you know like dang but jam i want to start off i'm gonna start off with you on this one actually jam wants to be a villain when he grows up just get the mustache man it's time but i'm gonna start with you on this one again i know you haven't seen the episode but plays out same way in the comics so again invincible boys show up and mark and oliver fly themselves through thrag ship to kind of you know basically put an end to everything because they're getting shit on i mean the the ship's like just pissing down lasers onto the city so dude so mark notice mark sees this and so again takes oliver they fly through the ship, Thrag, you know, grabs his Argyle skull, which he's in love with. And, but Jam, I want to ask you because a slight difference here in the show, in the comic, Mark just kind of, boom, flies up. He's just like, hey, hold on. I got to take care of something real quick. Flies through the ship. But a little small detail I loved here that they added for the show is Mark doesn't, when they show up, Mark doesn't immediately just like fly into the battle. And we see him kind of hovering over everything, kind of looking at what's going on. And that's when he notices the ship basically like an end game, like when they're raining down fire. Yeah, that was Captain Marvel flying through it. That was the immediate vibes I got. Literally, yeah, almost like direct reference to that. But again, that's new for the show. And to me, I really loved that because I felt like it was showing Mark isn't just running in ass first into these battles anymore. Like he's actually taking time. Sean, you're cracking up over here, man. I'm trying to ask a question here, man. Who runs in ass first? Mark all the time. And he gets his ass beat because of it. But Jam, what do you think of that? Again, I know you haven't seen that, but what do you think of them adding that little addition of, again, showing Mark being more conscious of like what, not even just conscious, but actually having some kind of a plan? Like he hovers over the planet, basically? No, no, no, no. Like they show up, like everyone's fighting Nolan, Oliver. They, you know, jump in, start fighting Viltrumites. And then, like I said, we see Mark kind of hovering around, seeing everything going on. And then that's when he notices the ship. and he's like, Oliver, come with me. So again- He's being more tactical. He's being a little bit more tactical. I like that. I like that. I think, yeah, to your point, it shows more growth in his character because I feel like where we're at in the comics right now, like where the show is at within the comics, you feel a little bit of growth for Mark, but it's more like, that's a bad choice of words. You do feel a lot because we about halfway into the comics I would say right now So you feel a lot of growth but it feels more like kind of what it is where it like he a he was a kid teenage like a teenager that's trying to become a man but he's like a young man in the show it feels a little bit more mature like he feels you kind of get that sense where it's like an actual kid that be is like really is becoming a man where we were in the comics right now it feels like he's still on the and don't get me wrong it does kind of still feel that way he does have some like immature things like there's been a lot of talk on those socials like he's really a bad boyfriend to how to eve and he doesn't really know how to be a good man even though he's a good man he doesn't know how to be a good man in a relationship and so there's like there's things like that that i've noticed but overall the growth and the maturity feels there way more than it does in the comics so i do like i didn't i wouldn't probably have noticed that unless well i when i watched the episode i would have but i like that you bring that up because yeah it does show he's tactic a little bit more tactical he's a little bit more mature he's a little bit more aware how these situations can play like you said he he instead of getting his ass beat all the time um i mean like he just i was yeah we're here bro we're here just saw last episode when conquest shows up he immediately just flies and starts attacking him so i think everything he's kind of learned like okay maybe i should take a yeah like that yeah i like that paul i want to keep my guts in for a second here so let me just evaluate the situation here but which also another great great uh freeze frame shot of Oliver and Mark flying through Thrag's ship, almost panel for panel from the comic. TJ, I'll start with you on this one, wrapping up this episode. So again, Mark Oliver fly through Thrag's ship. Thrag kind of sees the writing on the wall with the Invincible Boys there. Might not be as easy as before, so decides to fuck off back to space. And we get, which this was kind of underwhelming for me in the comic as well so i want to get your guys thoughts on this we we also get the reveal that data 2 is the mole and if you don't know who data 2 is he's like that chubby little alien dude who just kind of sits at that desk and he kind of he spills the beans of thrag's master plan that they're headed back to the planet viltrum to and thrag is calling all viltrumites from across the universe to regroup and plan basically their final attack so what did you think of like i said this kind of conclusion to the were you a little disappointed that the viltrumites decided just to dip out and also i i know you haven't seen the next episode but what are your thoughts going into this next episode no i don't think it was overly disappointing or exciting. It was just a neutral setup to an epic final two episodes of this season. Like, we're getting... The war is here. The war is happening. Now, if the war does not happen until season five, and we spend the next two episodes planning, I'm going to be a little pissed. I'm going to be kind of pissed. I would, too. But, uh, assuming that the war is here, the war is starting, didn't bother me whatsoever. It was a... Episode five was, like, a bit of an art conclusion and this episode was the setup to the finale is kind of how i viewed it and so very neutral as to how it ended but remaining excited and hopeful for some banger two episodes and what did you think about data to be in the mole because like like i mean this is just like a stupid thing it doesn't freaking matter but just like they've been talking about this mole so much and then it's just like data to who's data to sean wait the mole yeah i mean different than who i think it is no it's the same mole just that little chubby i'm thinking later on i'm thinking of later on then right no yeah you're thinking later on this okay okay okay they're like two twins that are like basically the receptionists of the coalition again i know that's stupid but to me it was just like they keep talking about this mole i kind of wish it was like i don't know alan's girlfriend or something not not anything against alan's girlfriend but like someone that we've seen that's like oh shit right shocking you know yeah but it's like oh it could have been the captain of the ship she took what's that yeah like okay even even him would have been kind of like oh shit you know like that motherfucker but it's just like okay data too but i have a lot of past trauma from my youth and data too from austin powers gold member from because i got this little guy right here this little mole on above my lip and some people in elementary school would like point in my face and go mole mole mole mole i just thought it was bad to have a mole because i was getting made fun of like the guy from austin powers gold member and you know i was past just hearing the name is triggering so many times in the last couple minutes i just had to tell this story uh that now my little two-year-old daughter she'll all be like holding her and i have like another wrong yeah another one a little tiny mole right here just on the right side of my on of my chin on my jaw and my two-year-old she looks at my face and goes daddy what happened what happened i said nothing that's just just my face what happened to your face and i'm like damn i can never escape this well tj i think you have a beautiful face and screw those kids and country school screw austin powers too that wasn't cool but not screw your daughter we love her you know yeah she's innocent in this for sure sean again what'd you think of this again were you a little uh maybe disappointed that the i think we all kind of assume that like tj said that this was more of a setup but did you find it a little just jarring for the viltrumites just to screw off after such a big battle and i'm not going to ask you the next one because you're an asshole and have seen at least a little bit of the next one so disregard how you're feeling going into the next one we should have just cut the episode off there I'm not going to ask you the next one because you're an asshole and alright see you guys next week no I think it's smart that the Viltrumites retreated this is war after all you know like they did the tactical thing and were like okay we need to regroup so let's go do that and it obviously sets the stage for the next episode with Thedas being like we're going to Viltrum baby let's go pack your bags kids taking them on their turf gonna see how it goes so yeah i i was not that didn't disappoint me i was like no that's smart that that's what they should do like because it's like obviously the invincible war episode was awesome but like i almost wish it was like multiple episodes rather than like one episode you know what i mean it was still a great episode an amazing episode but it's like when you hear war yeah you think it's like lasted longer and it's like yeah this this should stretch out over episodes and it should be multiple battles you know what i mean and that's what this is and so that's what they're delivering for sure so i i was like not happy but i was like oh yeah of course they would retreat right now they're gonna regroup they thought they had it they don't have it in the bag 100 they're smart they're dwindling numbers that i mean they're planet conquerors they know what they're doing so they know if they're in over their head we're going to get out of here regroup and come back stronger because that's the smart thing to do yeah and i 100 agree i could just i could imagine people which i you know people tune in for different reasons right but i could imagine someone might be like they could have they could have still killed them all why'd they leave like that's lame right so i was just curious if you guys felt like that at all but jam since you haven't seen the episode yet i have a different question for you we also see bringing back to a fatty thaddeus thaddeus again i cannot i don't know what is wrong with my brain i cannot get that i got everybody's gonna call him yeah i would say but we see the very very different from the comic and we get this scene here which again is not in the comic but we've seen flash this as well thaddeus is kind of an asshole i and i say this because after the Viltrumites leave and we get this little scene of just seeing the destruction left behind we we know in this season especially Invincible likes to linger on all the terrible things for a little bit and Alan is like man this is awful like you know so many people died and Thedas is basically like yep well it's war you know like he like does not give a shit at all so i thought that was really interesting because in the comics status is not like that at all he's very much just kind of uh you know the leader guy so what do you think about that do you think that they might be doing something different with thetas's character here in the show i don't think they'll do anything different with him but uh i think it's to show because in the in the comics he's just supposed to be the betrayer you know what i mean like that's just who he is the leader of the coalition and the betrayer of the viltrum so he has to be like big f you to everything viltrum so i think in the show it's kind of like a nolan situation since he is the first betrayer he is the first to betray viltrum it kind of feels like he's still a viltrumite he still has those ties to or not the ties but he still has some of those qualities and and morals and so i think it kind of just goes to show like levels of like redemption whereas we think that he is because he's the leader of the coalition and he tried he's trying to save the universe you would think he has all of these hopeful and global and goody two-shoe morals but no you're still a viltrumite so i feel like yeah it makes him a little bit more of a dirtbag but it kind of levels the playing field when you think of nolan who really is feeling like bad about all of this death. And he is now the second person to leave Viltrumite. So I think it shows the levels. Not that it's a bad thing or it's like a crazy big change. I think it gives you a little bit more depth to his character. Because like you mentioned, in the comics he's just there. Not that he's just there, but he's just the leader. The one pointing the finger do this, X, Y, and Z. You know what I mean? Whereas now it gives you a little bit more. I also think they changed something in season two if i'm not mistaken when alan dies i think he doesn't reveal himself in the comics at that point i think he like doesn't or or he like tries to kill alan and then like in the comics and then he like takes a step back and he's like no or i forget something like that i remember that they might be a slight slight change there but yeah i think just trying to give him more depth is all yeah and i think you bring up a great point too that i didn't really consider again in the comics Thedas a lot more not emotional but like for example when they tell him about the only being being 50 Viltrumites left he's like kind of upset about and he's like you know you know while they're terrible you know they're they still were my people so like that is sad but in the show again he's like fuck them I don't give a shit well we did we did get a little bit of that in the show though he wasn't like sad like he straight up said good he was like good no I thought I thought he said he was he was like but i did he told no he was like but i didn't know i don't know maybe someone told me yeah maybe someone could correct me from what i remember he was like good like fuck them but i think to your point though it does kind of i think highlight nolan's redemption a little bit more which is a point i did forget to bring up but during this war nolan tells mark and oliver don't kill the alien soldiers because they're they're just slaves to the viltrumites and if we free them they'll fight with us which was not in the comic book and i think to your point it kind of shows like thetis yes is the great betrayer he betrayed them but he's still kind of of asshole viltrumite whereas nolan i think that line of him saying save the soldiers shows more that he is genuinely changing being more human which we have to remember while thetis betrayed him he never went to earth he never had that human connection which we've now learned is kind of the key to breaking the viltrumite code so i think that's a really great point i think again or he's just more tactical and is like hey we need more soldiers yeah true i mean i do think it's more your point but i just wanted to like toss that idea out there as well like also smart battle tactic yeah but tactical wouldn't be like oh fuck it i don't care about the people that died like i'm saying we're talking about the people of teleskin like the citizens not like culture mites or soldiers like just straight up yeah yeah i just meant like the the slaves who will fight for us oh yeah yeah yeah that's like that was the line i was talking about of like how much of it is moral and empathetic and how much is let's add to our forces yeah i think a but again that brings us to the end do we have an end credit scene this week oh yes we do which is absolutely hilarious they so jam you haven't seen this yet but end credit scene they give us a little tease and they fake us out so it honestly it got me it i will be honest it got me and we go back to conquest grave and it's like like dramatic ass slow zoom in on his grave and then it just cuts to like another landscape shot and like crickets and like nothing happens and so they just completely mess with us that conquest uh would come back imagine i love i honestly i love that because i mean they can change whatever they want and i'll say for the comics spoiler in the comics conquest is dead that like that was his death but me and sean were actually talking about this and i there's honestly part of me that feels they could make a massive change and bring conquest back somehow but yeah i mean again just purely kirkman fucking with us like just kind of messing with us but that leaves us off i mean like we all said this is major setup for the last couple episodes of the season the viltrumite war is here we're ready to go uh tg you already gave in your thoughts and going in the next episode sean we don't care about your thoughts jam how are you feeling coming into this uh episode seven again we're going to planet viltrum well i can't first off i can't wait to watch episode six as soon as we get off this i'm showering and from work and immediately gonna watch this and the boys uh so i could be prepared for tomorrow but uh going into episode seven i think it i'm excited because we've seen Viltrum already, right, in the show. And I don't think up until this point, besides the story that Nolan tells Daddy-ist, I don't think we've seen Viltrum in the comics besides, like I said, that story. So I think getting to go to Viltrum will be actually fun if that's really what they do, because to TJ's point earlier, I'm nervous that we might get that those two episodes are the setup and then season five is the freaking more. He's less like that, man. They provide, man. But I am interested to see, again, this isn't, I have not seen the episode, so I'm not spoiling anything. But I am interested to see if we will see a little bit more of like Planet Viltrum. Like we got that little flashback of Nolan as a kid and got to see just a little glimpse of like what their society was like when there were people. So I'm interested in this. That's not in the comics either. So I'm interested if the show will give us a little bit more of that. Cause I would really love to see some of that, but that brings us to end of episode six. We're headed into episode seven next week. We have what two, two episodes. Does it end at eight or does it, are we going 10? eight eight okay so we got two episodes left everyone out there i hope you guys are ready again i don't know what's going to happen i'm not trying to mess with the artesia but from the comics things only get crazier from here like it it's it's hard to imagine i feel like if you haven't read the books and you hear someone say that you're like i mean how much crazier can it but it can you're not ready not ready not ready you read the book sean no no but he's cheeky and has seen at least a little bit of the next episode. So before Sean spoils to, which also, by the way, I love, I love Sean. It's crazy. I say, by the way, I love Sean. It's just, it's playful banner between us. I don't actually not care what he thinks. I'm going to edit that part out of the episode. So, well, if you're catching this live, you know, my true thoughts, but thank you all for tuning in. It has been an absolute pleasure. like every week we will see you guys again next week for an all new episode but before that teach i'm gonna throw it off to you take us out and let the people know everything we got going on at agents of fandom uh check out journey across media on youtube check out metalcore nerds on youtube and wherever you get your podcasts you can also find these gentlemen doing some wonderful reviews for agents of fandom.com up on the website at agents fandom on tiktok and twitter agents of fandom everywhere else we got a lot of fun stuff coming right now you want to make sure you subscribe on youtube wherever you get your podcasts hit the like button leave five star rating all that good stuff but it is such a good time to be a fan of comic book content sci-fi fantasy all of it and mondays we're talking mall shadow lord tuesdays we're talking daredevil born again live immediately after the episode airs this past week we got to chat with mcu reign of marvel studios author dave gonzalez we had a great time breaking down episode four next week sean staying up late to join us because we got our friends the newton brothers composers of daredevil born again joining us live to break down at daredevil season two born again season two episode five wednesdays for invincible thursdays at 3 p.m eastern time until the season is done we'll be talking about the boys the final season i'm sure there will be some more comic corners and interviews tomorrow baby we'll be coming out friday now because we got the boys coming out tomorrow so it'll be a recorded one instead of live right on the corner on friday and just like we it's not gonna stop like we got fat thor has got an interview in the in the wings waiting for us to drop we got carlos with an interview in the wings waiting uh to drop we are 30 in 30 minutes from now we'll have one of our fellow agents nicole on the red carpet for Testaments talking to Chase Infinity. We got so much great stuff coming. So make sure you follow us on YouTube, wherever you get your pods. Yeah, I got one thing I wanted to mention because I'm probably not going to be here for any more Invincible. I'm sad. But I did want to mention this to you guys. I got to speak with at New York Comic Con this past October. I got to speak with Ryan Oddly Ryan Oddly and get my first Invincible Copendium, how do you think that's a compendium, signed was very expensive. But one thing I wanted to talk about was that I actually spoke with him about, so shout out to Ryan Oddly because he was very nice enough to take some time. Shout out to Oddly. It was whether or not Nolan's suit is blue or white. That's actually, that's something we did talk about, but no, that he, because he's talking about that online as well on social media. um being the big manga anime fan i am ryan oddely is actually inspired a lot like his art style is inspired by a lot of manga and anime specifically things like berserk and so one thing i got to speak with him when it comes to the invincible show was i was saddened when the show first started because as great as the animation is i wanted it to be more anime-esque with the art style and he even was like that's something i wanted obviously i don't got the the the ball in that court but so i thought that was really interesting um that the artist that i love and you know got to speak with about his book or the book that he got to draw on um felt that way like he's like you know sometimes that's not always how the the cookie crumbles and he but we still love the way invincible looks um for a cartoon it reminds me very much of like this time periods Justice League if you guys remember the Justice League and how like at that time period like that was like Batman all that was animation bro for superhero stuff that's kind of what Invincible feels like for 2026 where we're at so I just wanted to highlight that we don't always get what we want but sometimes we still love it anyway so you know 100% I love Ryan Odley I mean amazing artist and I would love to talk to him about the process of translating his art into the show because I think they do it, which I guess this isn't anything confirmed, but I am working on getting him on the show. So stay tuned, everyone. Hopefully we'll have Otley himself and he can tell us all about it. But that's going to be a pod for another day. Thank you all for tuning in. TJ, take us out. Bye.