EP 72: Tyler’s Journey To Sobriety

Disclaimer. At two addicts in the moron, we discuss personal stories of addiction with the intention of being educational, relatable, and inspirational. The views and experiences shared are those of individuals involved are not meant to glorify or condone any illegal or harmful behavior. This content is for educational purposes only and is not intended as professional advice. If you or someone you know is struggling with addiction, we strongly encourage you seek help from a qualified professional or support service. It's just like that. We are back to another episode of two addicts in the moron man. I miss you. I miss you Joe. I mean, we see each other all the time. But Joe, not so much, man. It's over. We've gone a couple weeks without seeing Joe. No dick pics. No nothing. You don't call. You don't write. You're just like, when do the time to film? Like you're just all business. No, no friends. All right. Well, anyway, miss you, buddy. We're glad to be back back from Iowa. We have this is the first episode since Marshalltown, Iowa. And I want to get into that a little bit later. But we have brought a very special guest in the house. Yeah. Tyler everybody. I just really really nice to be here with you guys. This is like a long time coming. Yeah, I we were saying Mike has been talking about getting you in here for a long time. Well, he had to wait on me to get substantially sober. Like someone would listen to anything that I said. Like how long you got now? Like we're getting there. I feel confident to talk to you about things in about three or four months. So here we are. We've reached that threshold. I think. Well, that's awesome, dude. I'm glad that you're here. I'm glad that we finally got you on. Yes, really nice to be here. And let's get into it, dude. So how long have you been sober? 15 months now. So June. Thank you. Thank you. June 3rd of 2024. All right. That makes 15 months. Right. I was. Yeah. Close enough. Yeah. Close enough. I'm counting. Yeah. I'm counting like my life depends on some times. I can have a long way out now. Yeah. Hey, that's awesome. And what was the DOC? Man, so the DOC in my 20s was met. It's been when I went in this time, I was shooting a bunch of cocaine. It's been alcohol. It's been cratum. Okay. I will use anything. Even if I hate it, I'll use it. Just whatever, whatever's around. So like Steven, what you got? Yeah. Yeah. That was my favorite answer. Like ever. He was like, what's your DOC? It's something I ask everybody. And he was shit. What you got, man? That's the best answer. Was this a gravely voice, Steven from the Steve Hedgehog? Yeah. Yeah. He's definitely what you got. Cutting. My mind was usually just like happenstance. It's like, oh, this guy's near and he sells coke. So now I guess I'm doing coke or like, but you know, it's absolutely what happened. I was just like, all of a sudden, I'm just like just bad off on cocaine. What the fuck? I hate cocaine. I did. I am. I've been doing it, you know, shooting it for weeks now. Yeah. It was, I mean, the cratum too. It's like, you just going to gas station. You get cratum. Well, that's what alcohol, like alcohol freaks me out, dude. Like, I mean, it doesn't freak me out. I can have a drink still and be okay. But the, but for alcoholics, people who have struggled with that disease, it's always like the one that I am blown away that you're able to stay off of the most. Right. I mean, every time you go in any kind of store, the barrier to entry, right? Like we've talked about that a few times in here is so much easier and so much more acceptable. Like, well, every sports game is pretty much fucking sponsored by alcohol. Right. Baseball football. You call it. Canelo's fighting tonight. He has Hennessy fucking huge on his. You know what I'm saying? Like, there's, I don't think I've ever dreamed in Hanesie. We're going to be, I don't sound like a Hanesie guy. Never, never been there. But yeah, absolutely. The cost of admission for alcohol is so low and the acceptability of it too. I was at a concert the other night. And I was with one of my friends and he's like, look at him. He's like, you know, what the hell do you do? And I'm like, I'm at a concert with you. What do you mean? Like I'm enjoying the music. And it's like it's so ingrained in our social psyche that like alcohol makes everything better. Alcohol is necessary to have a good time. You know, alcohol is like the perfect accoutrements to any situation that then alcoholics are just I'm in the same boat where I'm like, he doesn't fuck it's everywhere. Yeah. You know, and they would be you know, if if they had to, if they had to like fight that urge 24 seven. Right dude, because it's that Chuck the cheese. Right. I mean, it's fucking literally everywhere. Do you go child in and you go hit the bar? Like, like, like, line mall has a bar in the middle of the motherfucker now. And you could walk around with the drinks. Yeah. Now you know, you have to sit at the bar. And it's that's when they say yesterday, what you can walk around the mall with your drink now. Yeah, you just can't leave them all with it. That's really good for normal people. Yeah. Yeah, that's nice. Like if I could enjoy, I can see all that would be a really nice thing. If I could enjoy your life with your wife is like, fuck 100% yeah. Oh, this is so much better. Yeah, absolutely. I mean, nothing makes like a trip to the mall. Okay. Yeah. But it can be almost okay. Like you can almost be there. Yeah, man. So, uh, so how long were you in the fight for? How long were you struggling? So, let's the first time I did anything about my addiction. I was 23. At that point, I like, you know, I lost like a four out of college. I had just lost two jobs. I've been struggling with, you know, not knowing how to cope with trauma for years. But at that point, I thought that like, you know, I could just kind of go reset like a like I'll go to this this rehab. I'll get some good time under me and I'll be able to. I'll be able to kind of reset my life. And that was that was the first time. So at 23. I and I went two more two more times. I went two more times of treatment before I had any like real substantial sobriety. And the second time I went into treatment. So the first time I was like, I was drinking a lot. And I was like, we had we had found some heroin, but we were snorting it. And it wasn't. It wasn't awful. Like I like, I've experienced way worse. The second time I came in, I was, uh, I weighed like a buck 40. Um, I had been in psychosis for weeks. My legs were covered in scabs because I thought that there were bugs in my skin. And I had been like picking at myself. This is a myth. Oh, yeah. This is the bug. Men the stands. Yeah. Yeah. This is the meth days. I spent like eight years. Uh, I guess in total on meth. So that's the second time. And that's technically like the worst that I that I ever was when I checked into to treatment at 25. Uh, and it was still another five years before I got any real sobriety. And then I had three years. Uh, relapse for a few months. Then I met stew. Best days. So, you know, all together. 12, 13 years of like hard enough use that I realized that life sucked. Like hard enough use that like it wasn't fun anymore. And I knew that this was just something I was doing to survive as opposed to like having fun. Yeah. That's like 12 or 13 years altogether. So the first time that you went into treatment, like how long were you? What what was the length of time from when you felt like you were started it to when you got to that point trying to break down a timeline here. Like how long were you when I started drinking? Yeah, I was a stupid way of asking that question. Sorry. Yeah. Where's words words words. Common core question. Yeah. Break it down the back. Where from 16 15 to 23. Okay. Yeah. When I so the first time I drank like I black the fuck out. And the second time I drank I blacked out and the third time. I think it was like six times before I could like successfully drink. All right. Like go home and like not like remember what happened. You know, from alcohol, weed. Like that was my whole identity. It was like a most little stoner guy. Yeah. First of my try I went from like one line of cocaine to like stealing money from people's cars within like a two week span. So if you introduce a drug to me and like there's a there's a substantial amount of it. You're getting after it. Right. And I'll use it alcoholically. Like immediately. I got it. There's no. You know, I've never I've never been under the delusion that I was that I could control things. Right. Honestly. I yeah. And everyone around me even from from a young age is being this guy fucks me shut up like he will. He will embarrass himself. He will embarrass the people around him like you know I so many blackouts. I was woken up in jail multiple times. But yeah. So you know, incrementally things getting worse and worse from 16 to 23 before I really decided like this is a problem that I should go take a look at. But you just I just assume that it wouldn't be that hard for me to solve. Yeah. Why did you do drugs and alcohol? Why? You know, okay. So it's a complicated question. It is a complicated question. And the answer to like the initial. So I remember like I had to stickly remember as a kid having these assemblies where they would bring in people to tell you about the dangers of drugs. We had one. It was like these two guys that look like Wayne and Garth. And they they were called nerds that never ending radical dudes. Oh boy. And they are absolutely. And they were there. To tell us about the parols of drug use. Oh my god. And I just remember thinking to myself like it like nine years old like. Oh, no, that sounds kind of nice. Yeah. Like I want to try that. Like I wanted I want to give it a go. Like even at night. I was just like I think I was cognitively aware that like at some point in my life I would probably try that. Okay. So. But how did drugs because I wanted to fit in and be cool? Yeah. I was like I was a lost little kid at 15. I wanted to feel like, you know, I was liked and respected. I spent most of my time in my room reading. So it was like my way to try to, you know, come out of my shell and come out and be with other people and drugs help me do that. Yeah. And it's weird because like I've tried just about every drug. They just ever stuck right? I just can leave them alone. But I can look back on it now and be like the only reason why I ever did them was because I was trying to fit in or be cool to the group of people that I was around. Right. So I get that. I mean, that's what makes me think that it's not so. There is a there is a degree of it that's physical. Oh, I'm addition to the rental side. It's right. The perfect thing. I don't know what the right answer is. And nobody will probably ever figure that the fuck out. Yeah, that's yeah, that's such a complicated, complicated issue to even look at. You know, because you know, there's a lot of people that they all assume it's trauma. They all assume that like that's why they say it's like a maladaptive coping strategy, I think is like people assume that it's a trauma response. But I know people who, you know, normal ass childhoods that end up like street junkies. Yeah. It's not it's definitely not once as fits all. But I knew when I started doing drugs that like, hey, I was curious of like, how would that feel? Yeah. You know, and the friends that I had also did drugs. And so we did drugs together. And it was and it was a good time for a long time. And then I am I am someone who has significant trauma. I have I have some sexual trauma from around in high school. And when that happened, like it definitely there was definitely like a switch where it became a coping strategy and it became like, I, you know, I've got a, I've got a blank out to some extent or or numb myself for. And numb yourself is such a such a misnomer because a lot of times it's the exact opposite of numb yourself. You like become more aware and more susceptible to the pain. But my brain tells me it's okay to do this and my brain tells me that. This is a way to make myself feel better. And so it went from like, I just drank and smoked weed with my friends to like, I drank and smoked weed because that's how I survived for a while. And then whatever else got thrown in, I would do as well. I love to pain pills. I love to add roll. Adderals what what shifted me towards meth because I was I drank a lot and I think that so to your point about like the physical nature of it, I think that like I have the body of a true alcoholic like my body. I think takes a lot longer to process alcohol so it all stays in there longer. I'll be hung over for three days. So if I drink a lot the next morning, I'm going to do drugs. Now all of my relapse of this have started with me drinking, waking up, feeling so shitty that I'm like, I'm going to go do drugs. You killed the pain. Yeah, absolutely. Yeah, kill the physical pain. Right. Kill the the drugs. And that's the same with the Adderall is like, I would be at work. I was working at a kitchen at that point, like 22 and come in so hung over that like, there's no way I'm frying fish today. And you know what I mean? Yeah. Yeah. And so the waitresses had Adderall and so and then eventually you realize that and I was living in Arkansas at the time going to school. And that place is just right for the math. That's everywhere. Go hogs man. Do you guys win today? I'm not a I have a family in Arkansas. Okay. I fuck with them all the time. I'm like pig sui. That's. I do. Okay. On a side note, people in Arkansas hate Texas. Oh, dude. And I know that I know I know what's insane. Like when I moved to Arkansas and they were like, you're from Texas? Like, yeah, I'm from Texas. I'm like, I'm a long on span. I like fuck you. And I was like, it's a car. And the great words of Tom Segura. Arkansas is where all of our shit goes when we flush our toilets here in Texas. That's perfect. I hope that they all hear it as well. I hope that we should start plasering those words on the bridges of Little Rock. Let them all know. Let them know. Let them know Texas is so much better than you. Except our Arkansas. Yeah, except for we do love y'all, but y'all are probably in Northwest Arkansas, which is gorgeous. Yeah. In a great place. Arkansas is a pretty cool state. I go there for the visit family and stuff. It's great. But yeah, we, but they come here and they talk endless shit about like the long horns and the Aggies. What do you think about that's like? Is that the only sports scene they have? Yes. Yeah. That's what they have. Yeah. It's their life. Like fucking like you have one thing. It's not there's not a lot. Options. So we're going to be die hard absolute fucking Arkansas. And they're going to be meth fans. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I should have a board console. Yeah. So multiple stints and rehabs. Yeah. So I've been to treatments six times. Okay. Which is not a huge number when I've talked a lot of people in six is like, it's about like, like middle of the road. Middle road. We had someone who's in here with 17 or 27 something like that. Yeah. We've had some people that have went in a lot. Yeah. And it it's all it always strikes me. They go in with the mentality that they're addicted to meth or heroin or whatever it is. And they're like, I'm not addicted to alcohol. Alcohol was never my thing. Like so they get out and just like you, it's like they drink. And it just kind of tail spins out again. You know, they they lose sight that it's they are that type of personality that can't really. Especially the women that we've had on the specimen. Like heroin addicts turned alcoholics. Well, you know, like when they're in treatment, they're talking about heroin or meth or whatever. They're all about it. And then they get to alcohol. And this isn't for me. I'm not alcoholic. And then they get out and they stay sober for a minute. And some of them can go drink here and there. But then eventually it just fucking get you back into where you're right. And I don't know if this is the form to say this. But like there are people who, you know, who have been like down on the dirt hair when annex. I know him personally. And after like six years of sobriety, she started drinking normally and she's been doing it for years now. And I'm almost four years from all drugs. Yeah. But I can still have a drink or two. And it doesn't doesn't affect me or anything. Yeah, it really doesn't. Yeah, I wouldn't. Now that's not the norm. And I wouldn't tell people like I always tell people find your own find your own sober. If that means that you can't do shit, then you can't do anything. If that means you can do this and not ruin your life. I know that I can't put a drug in my body because I will not stop. Right. Once I get that feeling back, it's done. And once I get the feeling that I just ruined almost four years of no drugs. Once I know once that kicks in here, it's going to be like, well, why am I going to stop right now? Now I'm just going to go all the way back out. Right. Yeah, 100%. Yeah, I'm going to go enjoy this relapse for a while. So that's a that's a strange thing though is is, you know, back to your question of what my my drug choices. I like to say drug and no choice. But when I relapse. So me and Stu met I hadn't when we met. I'd been sober for three years. I relapsed on meth in Arkansas. I went to see a buddy. To go backpacking in like the watched all national force. Like a survivalist buddy who had just like shotguns on every couch. Oh, yeah. And I walk in and he sounds like Arkansas. The 100%. This perfect Arkansas storm. The only caveat is he has a master's in psychology and it's like a therapist. But right. Right. And that's a thing. Andrews due to be sitting on a couch with bro. He literally shot himself in the leg. He literally shot. I took a clock from him because he he shot himself in the leg with it. I was like, you know what? I do need a pistol like I'm going to go ahead and I'm going to take this back with me. Yeah, but I got there and like nothing was prepared for this trek through the woods that we're supposed to go on. And and I'm just sitting there waiting on him to get off work and and I'm like. There's like there's like meth on the counter. And you know, I'm just kind of like and at that point I was I was in a place where where I guess like I stopped doing a lot of things that had that had helped me to like have successful sobriety. So I was in I was in a very susceptible state. And you know, I'm with a friend. I can I could do this and literally no one will ever know. But I saw a relapse on on meth that weekend. When I came back, I didn't like immediately seek out meth specifically. I ended up trying cratum because I had heard about that. So I tried to create them and your drug it helps. Right. Like that's people think like they people getting off of drugs. They fucking all the like. Crater goes. Yeah. Yeah. Just hammered down a bunch of over the counter shit at the convenience store and and I've never done it. I don't want to do it. But I just heard the way it makes people feel. Well, yeah. And they've and it's gone from in just like the last five years. I think it's gone from, you know, it'll be like bags of powder. That you kind of capsule up yourself or you can buy capsules to now there's like tinctures. And now there's these like 708 things that are like just just like hyper concentrated and people are like getting really thrown off on those. But I remember I told I told you to maybe like three days after we met that I was there for cratum and he started laughing at me. I was like mother. I was like you pussy. Yeah. 100% like I had to like bring some. So what happened? Yeah. Go ahead. Go ahead. When he came in, they're like, this guy's really fucked off. Like he's sick. Like this is so when you're in rehab, we look forward to going to outside meetings. Yeah. That means you get out of the house. Right. Yeah. But if someone comes in sick and they're not able to go to the meetings, they don't just leave that person and leave someone with them. That means the whole house can't go. So for the first two days, we don't go to work as he's fucking sick. Right. And then I found out he's on cratum. I was like, oh, fuck this. This motherfucker's getting up and he's going to meetings. So I had to go on to Ruben's Hey bro. I know you don't feel good. You're keeping us from going to meetings. It feels just like we didn't like each other at the beginning. He was telling me that. Yeah. This motherfucker was up at six in the morning, just being himself in the kitchen. Oh, yeah. You know, while I'm trying to, I'm detoxing, yeah, trying to sleep. Being himself in the morning. He's up at six. Just being himself. Being the guy. He used big more than seven letter words. I didn't like that. You've already used like three words. The now that I don't even know what the fuck you were saying. I got to go dictionary. I'm in a little bit. And then he read books. Yeah. Like this dude is my least favorite person. He's too smart. He fucking views his big words that I don't understand. And then then he reads books. I'm like, I took me all real well to read the David Goggins book. And he read like 15 books in that fucking time. Yeah. So anyway, David. Yeah. The David Goggins book that I like refused to read. I was like the guy's an idiot. I went. He kept telling me read this one. Would we became cool? Read this one. No, I don't want to read that. Have you ever read it? I did. I read it. Didn't I? Yeah. Yeah. Because I know that he runs around with broken ankles and shits on himself. Yeah. Well, he's running 100 miles. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, when you say it like that, he does sound like an idiot. Right. That's all I get. I don't like, of course, I'm impressed. Yeah. You made it. But that dude's he's a fucking animal. That's like, that's not a guy that you. It's it's so hard to even fathom like trying to attain that kind of mindset. But it also to me, it seems like some sort of like compulsory like addictive response to what he's doing. If you I mean that's that's some waters I really don't want to wait into. But it does seem like it does a little bit. So I would say that for I would all the way agree with you in that except for when you hear him talk sometimes. You're he's like, he's like, man, sometimes I just I stare at my fucking shoes for like 45 minutes. Like I don't want to put them other fuckers on. He's like, I'm having the fight with myself to just go and do what I know I need to go do. So he doesn't want to do it. Yeah. Like he doesn't just get that same person on the show. Yeah. Don't fucking do it. Yeah. He has the same exact reason. He has the same exact thing happening. The difference is is after he puts his shoes on, he goes and runs fucking a hundred miles and shits on himself. Yeah. And breaks the breaks. Yeah. With like shin splints and no, he's in I am impressed. I'm all it's obviously just jealousy because I didn't happen the early possible. It's like it's like Jimmy when I see someone bigger than me in the gym and like fuck that guy. I'll be the shit I am right now. And they're normally the best people in there. They're nice of people in there. I want to ask you, when you relapse an Arkansas or any of your relapse, did you have the thought of were you already preparing your relapse? Does that make sense? Okay. So the one in Arkansas absolutely. Yeah. So you was already thinking so one advance like man. Not not for the myth. Like my plan was I was like, you know, I'm gonna go up there. We're gonna we're gonna be in, you know, in the forest and the mountains backpacking. I'm like, get us some acid, dude. Get us some acid. Like we can mushroom. Yeah. We can do some acid. And my mushroom, I can't do mushrooms. I'll like lock myself in the back of my head. It gets really bad. Like I swear to God. The first time I took mushrooms, we got like that interesting way of putting that. Dude, seriously, I almost thought myself out of existence. Like the fabric of reality was like getting shaky. We were eating like shrooms from horseshit or cow shit. And like I almost didn't come back. So I know I avoid them. But that being said, like if I'm, if I'm, you know, if I'm in active addiction and someone comes and hands me some shrooms, I'll probably eat them. Yeah. Yeah. Knowing for sure. Knowing how many times I've been hurt. It's the worst thing that I can possibly get. But so, so I told them I was like, get us some acid. Like let's do acid together. I'm not sure if we we had ever actually, I'm only, you know, done it a few times. But in in small towns, growing up like acid is like a mythical substance. Because it's just not there. Not where I grew up at least. In the same, and the same for us when we were in Arkansas, it was a little town called Archidelfia. Yeah. And you just couldn't, you know, yeah. I lived in Archidelfia for like five years. Yeah. I'm sorry. Yeah. Yeah. I did. And so I was like, you know, get us some acid. And at that point, I'd already opened up myself as a possibility of like, like anything. So when, so when I realized, you already kind of justified a real life. Yeah. And then, and then I think the first thing I was like, all right, man, give me one of those beers. And then it started raining. And so we're not going backpacking. Because it's like a torrential downpour. Yeah. And I'm like, hey, man, give me one of those Adderall. And then hey, man, just just throw some lines out. Yeah. So I was like, I wasn't like, I'm going to go up there and do math. But I was, I was like, I'm going to be a way. And I was like living with sober people doing doing like serious recovery. And I was just kind of in the background flailing at that time. I was like, I get away with it. You wasn't working a program or anything like that. I wasn't like work. I wasn't working a program. No, not at all. So on your relapse, another question, when you're working a program and you're spiritually mentally, whatever, you're in a good place. Relapse doesn't cross your mind. Am I right? Maybe here and there, but it's a, you're able to shut it off right here and there. Because whenever you tail off of a program, because I know when you get in a program, you work at hard as fuck. That was one thing that I actually, I was drawn to you in rehab. Because you knew the shit. It wasn't like you knew the shit like you should be teaching it, right? And so what I'm asking is when you're in your program, you're probably in a good place. It's whenever do you fail yourself falling away from your program whenever you go in your relapse or or is it all just, but I've had mixed experiences because I've had, you know, previously, I would have told you that that once I have that, like a real thought to drink or do drugs, it's over. Right. Previously, I would have told you that because that's what my experience has shown. When I was sober for three years, I never had the real thought. And then once I did, I did, I did it. But recently, in March actually, in March, I was at, I was at a detox talking to guys about sobriety and a guy came up to me and he was like, you know, I really relate to you and that cratum thing because I've been, I've been taking these seven OHS. And this is the first time I had heard that these are even a thing and he's like, they're 50 times stronger than morphine. And something back in my head went, what? He's like 50 times stronger. And I dealt with an obsession over this for a few days, which was the first time that I think that I ever experienced like real obsessive thoughts over using that I didn't use. But every other time, it's just been kind of like a spur of the moment thing. Like, you know, it's like there I was, my own business. Yeah. And there I was. There I was. The time that, you know, the relapse after we met, I had 10 months sober. And I was, I was living with a guy who was like actively using in the middle of a relapse. And me and my roommates had tried to talk to him about it multiple times. And we'd finally found proof. We found like a hydrocoating laying on the ground. And I looked at my room. I was like, we're gonna set him up. Here's what we're gonna do. I was like, because he, he found it brought it to me. And I was like, okay, here's what you do. You take it. You put it right on top of his like his bathroom sink. And then we'll come back here in like two or three hours. If it's gone, we're gonna like talk to him about say, hey, we know this, this hydro was there. We, you know, we know you're fucked up. Like, we need to talk about it because you know, he was eventually, he overdosed multiple times before he got sober again. So it was like a serious issue. But the guy goes and puts the, puts the pill on on top of the counter. And like three minutes after he walks out, I walk in and snort it. I'm playing on the other fuck. Did you play on the other guy? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I was like, it's, it's gone. It's gone. I, you know, I told about it like a week later. I was like, no, that was a big. Did you have any intentions of doing that? Or was it just that's the question? Yeah. That's really the question. I don't know. Yeah. Like, I mean, it was like, yeah, in the moment I was like, why do you have the opportunity? Cause the guy's like, the guy's like a threat to die on us. He's a heroin addict. You're like, I've got to help him. Yeah. I've got help him. Either, either I catch him doing this drug. I'm going to have to do this drug. Yeah. You're just trying to be a service here. Yeah. Whenever I can. But that's the same guy. Eventually, at one point I had to take his door knob off and rush in and like get him out of the tub. Oh man. That's terrible. So it was like, it was a serious situation that I took advantage of. I just, I just picture like, I can almost see it like a cartoon like this scene, right? And I just hear the foo fighters, my hero starting to play as you just bang this one. And I was like, you know, after that, it was it started. I was out for two and a half, three years before I ever, before I really went back into, into recovery. So for, so for three years, just shot three years, I was drinking, taking credit for a couple, couple months, went and met, do it solstice with so over for about 10 months, you know, hide her off the sink and then create them an alcohol and alcohol on a little bit of credit. I'm like managing for two and a half years before. So you seem to be a maybe one of the more impulsive, like that's a pretty fucking impulsive fucking story. Like, oh, absolutely. Like that's crazy. Yeah. Like, how do you manage that? Because it seems like that could, you're on a dime. Like, what? Well, how do you, how are you successful in fighting that in Polshin now? The, the short answer is that I don't, I don't have to for some reason. For some reason, it doesn't, that in Polshin doesn't happen. And, and when it does, there's, there's no real fight to it. It's like, I've, I've been put in a position to where the, the notion of going and, and taking a drink or, you know, buying the credit home or whatever, it would look like that notion is like, so absurd to me, it's like, it gets laughed off. Except for or for that, that week long period that I was obsessing about these 708 things, other than that, you know, the thought of drinking is like, it's just, it's just absurd. Okay. But the thing is, it's always, it's been absurd. But I first, for some, for some reason, you know, by the grace of God, I've been put in a position where, when I realized how absurd it is, like on, you don't even entertain it. Right. I don't even entertain the sounds like you're making a, or you're working a program, like a pretty strong program. Yeah. I absolutely, I work with other guys, I go talk to people at treatment centers at a detox center. I'm actively, you know, talk with other people about the issues and problems in my life, which, which is huge. By the way, I, I'm someone that, that never let other people in. Yeah. You know, especially real time. Like, I never, I've never thought to like run my thoughts and fears and selfish behavior and things by someone. I thought that I could just like, you know, decipher that, you know, this is, this is unhealthy or this is, this is an unmanageable behavior. But, but now I run every dumbass thing by somebody. Okay. I have a few people, a few very core, core people that I'll talk to about everything. And that's one of the biggest things for me is like, when I struggle, I don't do it alone anymore. And all of my struggles and internal conflict used to, used to be between me and myself. And now it's between me and others. And that's, that's the biggest way that like God shows up for me because I'm someone who, at one point, I like convinced myself that I had asked burgers because I felt that I was so, socially inept and socially awkward. And like, I didn't feel like I connect to people. And I was like, there's some kind of like, there's some kind of barrier between me and other people. So to be in a position to where I can speak to other people about anything that's going on in my life is the biggest blessing. I think it's the thing that, that, it helps me, you know, the most, not to suffer alone or to, or to struggle. Yeah. That's really cool, dude. It's kind of like what Stephen she hands in. Yeah. As you know, whenever he was able to all the battles, when he was able to put all the ribbons on his chest and show people, like all the metals that I have from this and this and this, he said, that's the, was the, the best thing that's ever happened to me. Because now I'm not hiding trauma or I'm not hiding this. And I'm actually to tell you, no, look, I have a metal for that. I've been through that too. And he said, it's, it's kind of like how you take, you take everything that you went through and you put it on your chest and there's no more hiding. There's no more shame about it. Right. You know, yeah, absolutely. And that guy, I, you know, I've seen that guy around. And he's, he absolutely wears it on his chest. Yeah. And and it, I mean, we're told that we're in a unique position to help other people because of our experiences. Right. And the more that I discovered that's true, the more, the more grateful I've had come from my past, which is something that, that used to, when I heard people saying, like, I'm a, I'm a grateful alcoholic or I'm a grateful addict. In the back of my head, I'm like, oh, fuck off. Like, you know, you're full of shit. There's no, there's no way. And I'm starting to, I'm starting to like have a taste of that and to understand kind of what that means. What that meant. What that means. Yeah. And it's, it's, it's pretty cool. Well, you can, you can also start being of service about anything. Right. Right. Immediately. Not just like, not just sobriety either. Like, I feel like, I've taken that whole be of service to others and pay it forward. I've taken that not just in sobriety now, but I just do it in life in general. You know, if somebody at Orch going through something, be there for him, be of service to him, are like, if somebody needs something, if I can help them, I'll definitely help them. And that's, you know, something I learned from the rooms is just being of service to each other. Because I feel like the reason God put us here is so we can go through things together and we can help each other rise from them. I think that's like one of the biggest things that he, we're not supposed to do this alone. Yeah, absolutely. And, and, and carrying, carrying principal living to every aspect of my life. Yeah. I think is what, is what you're saying. I think it's so huge. I think people put, people will put barriers in the way that they act. It's like, am I around people in recovery or am I, you know, am I in recovery function or around people who understand addiction and things? Where am I, around my family, around my work or am I just, you know, checking out at Target? I, I, I remember once I was at, I was at a meeting and this woman had like, had her, her son there. And this guy was sharing in the meeting and it was like, you know, it was a fire share. That's what they, and it was just a turnout that was all, all bullshit because after the meeting, the guys walking out and the kid like steps on his shoes and I guess they're nice Jordans or some shit. And he explodes on this like little nine year old kid. And, and did just to think, you don't get to turn it off. Like, and, and in my experience, like, I don't, I don't want to turn it off. I want to, to figure out how to, how to live a life where I can be of more benefit to others than myself. At some point, and pretty quickly, like, if you're, if you really look at the whole thing, it pretty quickly recovery stops me about drugs and alcohol and starts being about, about, about myself and it starts being about me determining a better way to live life and a life that's like based on true value and value through others and value through, through helping people and being a service and being there when people call. And, and that's, that's obviously, you know, that's the biggest blessing to me. But it's also what I forget, probably, you know, quicker than anything else. The only way that this, this, the success and surprise that I have will continue is if I like continue to, to think about every aspect of my life as an area where I, where I can grow and learn and be, be more helpful, you know, give more to people, I give, give more back to the world or what I take from it. It's like I had to, I had to like start thinking about life differently. And I think that it's essential. And, and if, if I put barriers up between my recovery world and the outside world, my recovery world and, and my relationships, my family, if there's barriers or if there's any kind of incongruity between the way that I act and the way that I show up, it, there has to be some kind of selfish motion at, like at the bottom of that, there has to be some kind of selfishness or self-sitterness that I just can't have. Like I have to try to, to grow in every, every area and avenue. Yeah. Side note. Have you guys watched the Charlie Sheen thing? I haven't. I haven't. Yeah. Have you? I have not. I watched him on Joe Rogan. You, dude, you need to watch that documentary. I mean, he has a, a very, the badges on the outside. I mean, you talk about some of the things that that guy was hiding for years, you know, HIV. Right. Yeah. And I mean, he admits to starting to have a sex with men. And, and like the, the document or the guy who was running it asked him, he's like, how does that feel to like admit all of that right now? He's like, it's fucking liberating. Like you see it in his face too. Like it really was to him. Like just, uh, it's all out there now. Like he was being blackmailed by people. Mm-hmm. Oh, that was information. Well, he was sleeping with women, warm men. I don't know. But he said that they were taking pictures of his medication than the bathroom. And it's only for HIV. Like it's the only, that's all it's used for. And he would have to pay them so they wouldn't. So they wouldn't tell. You go tell or show or any of that shit. And so that kind of, I mean, you talk about a guy who has been around burned. Yeah. The candle hard at both ends and coming through on the other end of it. And there's even a point at the end of it where he, um, the mother of one of his children, that's older. She was still in the fight. And he was helping her now. They had a really fractured relationship. Oh, I'm sure. I'm sure that. And now is, and she was, they were hugging each other at the end of it and stuff. It was a Denise Richards or wasn't he with, he was with Denise Richards. He was with, wasn't he with the porn star that he had a baby with? Was it her? Maybe. I didn't really, not that I have anything. He had porn stars. I love you all. Yeah. I didn't pay, I didn't really pay any attention to that other than it was one of the mother of his children that was going through some shit. And he came back and was started to help her out and how good that was feeling to get everybody back on the same page. Now his house has become a hub, kind of for everybody as kids and everything else. Super cool. Yeah. You should watch it. You should watch it. It's pretty neat. That's Charlie will take you on anytime you want to come on the podcast. Yeah, do. I'll be here too, Charlie. Yeah. Since I'm here as they brought it up, I'll be, we're gonna get another chair. Yeah. I've wondered, you know, I've thought about that trying to get sober like as someone like that famous or that dude, like the, because you got to think the opportunity. Right. It's just like, it's like, and not only that, like everywhere you go, like I always joke with more on about me being famous, right? I'm not famous, but like when people recognize me out, it's like, it's, it's awesome, right? But I couldn't imagine like everywhere that I go, people running up and doing this and doing this and doing this. And then like, what do you do for fun? Like I've always said, like when you have so much money, what do you do to really make yourself happy? I mean, you can buy anything. Right. You just rent out six flags. Yeah. You rent the whole thing out of here. That's what that was mine. There's bars at six flags. Yeah. Yeah. Well, if you rent the whole part, you close them bitches down for the day. But yeah, it's got to be, you know, and to his point, I watched a podcast one time where this, this was a basketball player, Michael Porter, Michael Porter, Jr. He was on a podcast and he was talking about how when people start, he's been to parties with people that are famous money. And like, it's not just the different drugs that they're doing. They're bringing in men. They're bringing in women. They're bringing in. They're sleeping with everybody, right? And it's because the bar is so high of what they can't get. Like it, they can pretty much get anything they want. So like, it's like when you watch porn, right? You first you watch maybe a little lesbian porn. And then it's three sums and then it's, you know, 10 girls and one. And then all of a sudden, regular sex doesn't even sound fun. I want to, where's all the, where's the 10 girls at? Right. And that's how it kind of progresses from there is these celebrities a lot of times they do so many drugs. And then what, how much is enough? How much is enough in the same with sex? I'm like, let me look at the, should I say, should I talk about the Diddy parties? That's, I mean, that's, that's a prime example, right? Well, and the celebrity and like the adulation and the, the love and being recognized from other people, isn't itself like an intox again. So I feel like, it's probably like a drug. Right, exactly. Like you're already, you're already on the, on the, the brink of being high off of just fucking, like you said, getting recognized in the street. And then there's always some assholes like, I want to do coat with Charlie Sheen. There's gotta be a lot of that. I don't care how long he's been sober. Like I want to do. But there's also gotta be the, the next level of that where it's like, he's on, he was almost rewarded for being the fucking playboy or the coat guy. Right. He was like, he was still keep, they still kept force reading the rules. Yeah, I mean, they, like biggest movies of fucking all time and shit. Like he's still wasn't either high, it wasn't either highest paid on a sitcom. When he was doing two and a half men, yeah. But that role was like Charlie Sheen, if he had a brother and a young nephew, it was like, just hey, go out there and be yourself. They talk about that in the, in the documentary, the guy who, I forget his name, but the guy who is like in charge of all sitcoms that you've ever known or seen a Norman Lear, I guess that's his name. He, he said that when they had the concept for that show, they pitched it and they said, yeah, we have this brother who kind of stumbles and can't get life right with the kid. And then we have a Charlie Sheen character. Like that's literally how he pitched it. That's how he pitched it. And then the, the people, the studio or whatever was like, well, can you get Charlie Sheen? Yeah, yeah. So that's literally how he got the show. He was like, we have this Charlie Sheen type guy that can do no wrong. And he was like, yeah, get your own. Yeah, go, just go get him to do it. So it was, it's pretty fun. I definitely, I definitely want to shake this. The reward of being who he was in all of the chaos is gotta be really hard to like, I can literally do whatever the fuck I want. Winning. Yeah. And get rewarded by being the highest sitcom guy of all time. Well, and he, and he must have gotten to a point I would imagine when everything was like crumbling and falling away, where it's like, it's so public and everyone knows. And like, he couldn't walk down the street with someone like, you know, not yelling tiger blood animal. Yeah, it was like in my mind, I'm winning. Yeah. Yeah. In my mind, I think that it would be so hard for me to give a shit. Like, I've had enough money to continue to burn it down. It would be so difficult for me not to just burn it down. Right. Yeah. If I was in Charlie Sheen's shoes. Right. Um, I've always said that if I had an, like, if I'm lucky that I've always been the, you know, socio economic class that I've been in because if I had more money, I'd be dead. Right. I'd look far more like that. I mean, if I were, or if I grew up in an area where, where heroin was, was the main thing, yeah, it would definitely be dead because I'm not a good drug. I think I'm pretty bad at it. Yeah. To be honest. Uh, you know, I seriously, I'm really not good at it. If I grew up around heroin, I don't think I'd be here. Yeah. I would have just overdid it so fast. See where I'm from. Hero heroin wasn't a thing at all. Like, there's no heroin in the body. No, well, there may be now, but when I was 21 when I moved here, no, there was like meth, there was ecstasy. There was acid. There was mushrooms. It's a lot of farms over there, but there wasn't. There's cocaine, but heroin, I never even knew what heroin looked like until I moved here. And then I seen like the black tour heroin. Yeah. And, um, and then I found out that you can smoke that and then you can inject and snort. I didn't even know you could snort it. I was so dumb on heroin, but heroin was something like my mom used to talk about like from the 60s and 70s. You know, it's like that was nothing that I ever seen until I came here. And when I got here, like heroin was not the biggest thing, but it was definitely big. Yeah. I had, I had like minimal exposure when I went to treatment the first time because I'm from a small town over these Texas. I went to school in a small town in Arkansas. Like they, it's a rural, I think it's a rural thing. Like the rural, the bigger cities. Right. Heroines of like a kind of a bigger city thing, a lot of pain pills and things have decimated like, you know, rural populations. But in my area, at least I'm probably speaking to generalized terms, but in my at least I got heroin wasn't. I had some friends that eventually like started to go to Dallas to get, uh, to get black to our heroin. Yeah. And there's going to be some heroin out there that listen to this and think this goes a fucking moron. But what, what, what my friends did when, when I was 23 and we got this, they would get the, the tar and like, the little one, which I should I explain this? Anyway, they, they basically mixed it with crushed up. We're not condoning it. We're not condoning this. Yeah. But they basically mixed it with like crushed up a scene of medicine. And that's what we were snorling is like Tylenol and heroin. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Just in case you got a head of it. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. You know, I just kind of walked into this whole whole circumstance one day. And then, and then like three weeks later, I was going to treatment. Um, yeah. There wasn't, but then I went to treatment. I came to Austin afterwards for to go to several living. This is like 2012. And I had, I got a, a real like a real lesson and like what drug use could look like by listening to people. And they were still a part of me in the back of my mind that was like, I'm, you know, I want to try that. Yeah. I tried. I had done some IV drugs. Even before I got out of high school, I had done some IV drugs, but never seen anything like real extent. That was one thing I never got into. That scared me. Yeah. It's a, I remember when I used to see people do a heroin, I would be like, I'm, I'm smoking meth and doing hot rails. And I'm like, Oh my god, they're what they're doing. heroin. It's terrible. They're junkies. Right. Or when someone would like take shots of meth, and inject it. Like I remember the first time someone asked me to give them a shot in their neck. I was like, I was like, what? And he was like, Oh, man. And you know, he was fucking getting it already for it. And I was thinking, God damn, this guy's got a problem. And like, I'm doing an eight ball of meth a day. But I'm doing it. The gentleman went, yeah, the, the ride. This guy's got a problem. He's not going to make it. And he said, you're asking me to shoot you in the neck? Yeah. I'll do it. I don't put. But yeah, I, that was, it was, it's so funny whenever I think about it now because I was so judgmental. If someone was doing heroin, shooting heroin or shooting meth, I was like, Oh my God, they've got a problem. Yeah. Like they're, they're, they're, there's, there's, there's some real problems here for this person. Right. This is a serious issue. Not looking at myself like here, I am smoking over there rolling like as he's talking. Yeah. Yeah. That's funny. When, at all the rehabs that you went to, do you think that because this would be a, everybody's quite answered to this would be different. Do you think that you learned stuff at each one that you picked up all the way through? And it made like, or did you, do you think sometimes it was, fuck, I didn't learn nothing there? Or because sometimes people say even though I've been to 10 rehabs, I don't feel like any of them was a waste because I picked up a little bit here, a little bit there, a little bit. Right. Like, is it like an accumulative thing? I mean, yeah, obviously, yeah, I think the answer to that is, yes. The thing, the thing that when I went, when I went to treatment this time is that I had to pretend like I didn't know shit because the, my, the cumulative knowledge that I, you know, gathered had got, I'd been drunk for the last two years or, or, you know, and then eventually at the very end, back on cocaine, really pretty severely. So, obviously, I still know the things that I've learned. Right. And there is some kind of accumulatory, you know, like accumulation of knowledge and experience. I think there's just, there's just some shit that you have to let go of. And I think that, I think sometimes it's like too much knowledge or, you know, the presumption that I have a certain amount of knowledge, it can be dangerous. So, when I went through this time, I'd try to break it down to the bare metal. Right. Break it down the bare metal. It makes like, faint ignorance. Like you, you tell me what to do. I'll do it. I'm, I'm not going to question it. And then let's, let's go from there. Because the things that I thought I knew were probably going to get me killed. And it's funny. They, when I was in there, they took me to a meeting, maybe like a month in and a good friend of mine, who actually was my very first sponsor. And I saw him in a meeting. And he had just gotten out of a treatment center that he was in for like two months. And we're at this meeting on a Saturday morning. And I shared something in the, it was like a new career meeting. I shared something. Because I, I have a, like, I have a knowledge base. You said I should be teaching this shit, you know, which made me stop learning. But I had shared something. My friend looked over at me. And this is someone who's, who's been in and out a lot. And when he, when he was on, he helped a lot of people. And he really knew his shit. And he did a lot of good for people. And then when, and then he would just have these catastrophic, you know, failures of falling off. And, and I shared any, and he like, joke with me is like, you know way too much. You're like, you're fucked. And I was like, dude, if I, if I'm fucked, like, you're so screwed. Because you know, three times as much as I do. And I'm literally a month later, I found out it was dead. So there isn't, there is an extent where, you know, yeah, the knowledge is in cumulative. But I, but I have to always be searching for a different perspective on what I know and what I think. And, and be willing to be coachable. Yeah, to be teachable. Yeah. To admit that maybe I'm wrong. Like I was wrong about, about you. Yeah. And now I love you. I know. You know, I love you. And I've, and I've been wrong about a lot of things. And, and the more, the more apt I am to admit error or to open myself up to different interpretation, like the better off I am. Yeah. No matter how much I know. Yeah. You always have to be yeah. Rogan says it a lot. And it's something that kind of changed the way that I think. But it's like you don't be married to anything that you think. Run. Be married to it. Like always be open to listen to the contradiction of it. Because you might be able to pull something out of it. And it might change the way that you, you think about that thing. And that's okay. It's not a problem. It's not an issue to do that. So I mean, I think for what it's worth me being the moron here, man, it sounds like you're well on your way. Like God fucking hope. So yeah. Yeah. I really hope so. Yeah. So I want to talk to you about solstice. Okay. Because you were there. Absolutely. Yeah. Absolutely. See this mile we get from solstice. When Cole was sitting there. And we had a colon here. He would bring up names. Uh-huh. And you would just see him like just light the fuck up. It wasn't saying how many people he remembered. I bet here. Remember like every person that went through that. He probably does. He does. He went through his roller decks there. You know, like in his mind. And he would just, he would just like light up. You could just see it in him like where it was. And I know how special that was and how grateful I am for that place just because of who I have here. And I know that you were there at that time. Just I want to hear you talk about that spot a little bit. So I, I had worked in at a treatment center for like a year and a half. And I had been to treatment three times. Solstice was my fourth time in treatment. So I have a lot of preconceived notions about what what treatment it's supposed to look like. Yeah. What? Yeah. You know what? You know, real recovery looks like. And then as I'm going to solstice, my sponsor at the time who who got me in there was like, listen buddy, this place is a little different. Yeah. A little different. And and I and I get there. And I'm just like, the fucking, you know, the, is this the blind leading the blind here? This is either the smartest, like greatest thing ever. Or this is going to be a disaster. Right. And it was one of the greatest things ever because they, they, they, they allowed, I think they allowed us to find, to find a pathway recovery without like without restraining us. And in the only real restraints that we had, or, or you know, constraints on personality or the way that we like spoke to each other and reacted to things, the only real restraints and constraints was that we were in this building together and didn't have phones. Right. Other than that, there was no like, no like real time, like behavior modification or accountability. It's like, you guys, you guys, your brothers now yeah, they're this shit out. Yeah. And we'll give you some guidelines. Yeah. And I remember the first time we went to see a movie, they're like, all right, we're stopping at Bucky's. Everyone's got $7. And you're going to have to sneak this shit into the movie. And I'm like, what? I was like, what are we doing? Like this is this is insane. All right. So I was like, rigorous honesty. This doesn't see right. But it's like, it was just a man. It was a rehab like no other. Yeah. Like no other. Yeah. Um, I mean, that couple of people there, have you had, have you had Johnny on? No, so we need to get Johnny on. Johnny's always, he's one of the only people that when I talk to him, I'm intimidated to talk to him because he's so fucking smart. Right. But it's also like maniacally intelligent. Yeah. He's just too intelligent for me. And it makes me uncomfortable, right? Because I'm not the, I'm not the smartest person out there by any means. Seven letter words and less. And that's where I stay. But Johnny, like when he was my sponsor, he would tell me shit. And I'm like, I don't even know what the fuck you just said. Yeah. Like, you have to dumb that down for me because I have no clue what you're even talking about right now. But no, he was at sets. He was at a set. It's funeral. Mm hmm. We both spoke. And he's, his, his, he's spoken amazing. You know, Johnny, we need to get Johnny on here. And I know who come on. If there's anything I know about two addicts and more on, we're not really smart. All right. I could. Yeah. Well, we had smart people over there. That chair. We're just like, we're like, huh. Yeah. How many of these books have been read? None. None of them have like a priest. I read the David Goggins. Yeah. That's the David Goggins book. I've done anybody who sat on that couch that wrote a book. I read it. And I've read the Goggins. Yeah. There's a couple on there that Steve's at in there to make us look smart. But we're not like, I honestly thought about like putting in like, fucking Shakespeare or something. Oh, yeah. Just like the road. There's one that you should definitely do that. That's the smile is fucking insane. Yeah. Like that's an insane. What's the place in LA that he lived? He lived on and the home was placed in LA that skid row. He lived in two years. Yeah. I love it. We're people. We're talking in them talked about that book. What's the other guy's name? The comedian that always does Donald. Oh, yeah. Shane Gillis. Shane Gillis and Matt McHaster. He talked about that. He talked about the. Yeah. And Matt McHaster, they had them on. They had them on their podcast. Yeah. It was, it, you talk about the wild, wild, like, his stories are great. Go watch back and watch his podcast. And no client steam. And how, how, um, clean smart. Yeah. Super smart. This fucking intelligent like that. Like I actually got like a lot of, a lot of not a lot, but criticism during that episode because of how smart he was. You know, like they were like, man, he got you a couple of times. Yeah. You couldn't keep up with it. Yeah. It was, it was, it was really tough on his intelligence level. Our supervisor called us and said, you don't need to get that dude a job with us because he's so like for being an addict and still knowing things about the world and economy and everything that's going on, it was insane. His knowledge was, it was stupid. It really was. I was just sitting here. I didn't ask no questions like getting. Yeah. Yeah. I'm like, uh, so drugs. They're bad, right? He's like, yeah, dude. I mean, like I ate my face off and cut a toe off. Like he did those things. Like he like eight half of his face, like in a blackout and, and removed a bone from his toe. Did he saute it? Like how did he, he, he saw it off at a bone out of his toe. Like no, remove the bone. Like the toe, like the toe was still there. But the bone was out of it. And it took, it took the doctors a minute to figure out what the fuck, because the toe is there. And they're, and it took him a couple of days to like be like, I mean, they didn't look great. Some, some is a miss. Yeah. Yeah. Something's missing. Oh, there you go. Here's a good story. I may, I think I've told you before. So when it's at Solstice, when they would bring us to Bucky's and give us our $7 allowance, $7 is a much. No, it's not. So every time I went in there, I stole about 30 bucks worth the shit. And I would come back. So I had, I mean, we're supposed to run on this program in there. But I was like, this is going to be my one fault. So I would still about $30 in candy. All right. I would always get my daughter a little doll out of there, right? And then when, when Brody picked me up from rehab, you stopped at Bucky's. I had to tell him like, all right, it's about time I start making these financial with men's. I said, you have a hundred and 150 bucks on you. He's like, yeah, why? So we got to stop at Bucky's. So I walked in and I gave the cash here some money. And she's like, what was your items? I said, I've been still on for me all for a good month now. Weekly for a month. I've taken whatever I wanted. Every Friday I was in here still on for me all. Is it about a hundred and 120 bucks? Here it is. I apologize. I was going to ask you if you made that a man. She didn't immediately with someone else's money. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. What a sweetheart. Yeah. That is actually that's. I remember what you called me about in a man's. I don't remember who it was that you were doing in a men's table. You called me to kind of run you before it. Yeah. With my ex-fragrant. Yeah. With my daughter's mom. Yeah. I called you in kind of a man. That was a big one. That was a big one. You really thought some of you got highly of me. Yeah. I called you. And I wrote like, you're one of the smartest people that I know. Like, and I don't, I'm not just saying that he's on this podcast. That's why I didn't like you. That's one of the reasons I was like, this guy is too smart for me. I don't like you. But as I got to know you, I was like, he's actually a fucking cool dude. And that whole, that whole judgmental character defect that we all have. Laring. Yeah. Mine's layering as well. Yeah. I think it's everybody's. I would argue that that's probably a character defect of every human being out there. Very few people can say. It's like, yeah. I just don't judge it. In my addiction, I used to tell people, I'm the most non-judgmental person you'll ever meet. And fucking, I am judging you right now. Or shit. I'm judging the heroin addict over there because I'm doing. You're a way worse than me. They're doing heroin. Yeah. Smoking him right. You're just wasting it. That's what my buddy told me. He's like, so the people that were smoking, you know, they were wasting it, right? I mean, I don't fucking know. I don't know. They were, they were like, they were getting high to me. No, you got to shoot that shit. I was like, okay. Yeah. All right. Cool. So what is sobriety? Look like for you now. Just like life. Life. What's the life like? So I work, you know, I work a few days a week at a treatment center that handles mental and emotional health issues primarily. And then there's some substance abuse thrown on. And I'm a tech. And I help help those people get whatever they need and stay comfortable and do things. And then I, you know, hit a few meetings. I have, I I had a sober living that I helped to manage. It's like an apartment complex where the the guys from the treatment centers that I went through, they get out, they come to the apartment complex. I manage it. I do odd jobs. I'm a handyman. I do different odd jobs. And I feel the the amount of like the freedom I have in my day to day, four hours is I've really been able to like sit and kind of get comfortable with myself again and get comfortable with other people in different environments. And so the, you know, I haven't technically even had a full-time job. Yeah. Yeah. Since I got out of treatment. I just think you mean. Well, yeah. Yeah. I've got so much going on that I'm definitely busy, but I haven't had to like, you know, go back in. Before I went into treatment, I was a superintendent for a company called Sarpro, like Fix and Flood of Fire Damage. So I was in Florida six months last year trying to, trying to fix some flood damage from a hurricane. Flood is a wild place. It's insane. Yeah. It's, you fluider ends out there, or a different breed. Yeah. And I thought like, you know, I lived in Arkansas, a little Texas. I've seen some red nacks, but Florida's a different place. Florida's different, but I haven't had to, you know, eventually I'll get myself a real full-time big boy job again, but for now I have a little bit of freedom. I get to, you know, go where I want and talk to the people that I want to and try to help. And it's pretty fulfilling. I, you know, when people call me, I answer when they need me to show up, I show up. Like the real, real basics of life are handled. And that's such a blessing that, that like, I know, I know eventually my life will continue expanding, get bigger and the new opportunities will come along. And I'll take them as they come. For now, I'm very satisfied with where I'm at and what I get to do on a day of the basis. So all that's great. What do you do for fun, dude? What do I do for fun? This is like, I should ask this question more because I think it's important for people to know that they can live a fulfilling life, all the things that you just said. And still. Last week I saw, I saw, I saw Cohen and Camry live. I saw the pixies the week before. I've been going to a lot of concerts. I'm flying to Vegas on October 4th to watch Paul McCartney with my big sister. I've been trying to catch up on music. I read a lot, which is like, don't know that is my relaxation. I go to the gym a lot. I, I was playing pickleball with you a couple of weekends. I play softball. I, you know, a little volleyball, a little volleyball. Yeah. And the thing is, it's like, I find enjoyment in, I can find enjoyment in anything that I'm doing. That's the thing is like, I don't have to, I don't have to feel like I'm, I'm going out to do some kind of special activity for things to be fun. I know that the, for those of you out there looking for the answer to that question of like, what do you do when you're sober? That seems like a cop out, but it's really not. Yeah. Like, I find more fulfillment, I think, and in most day to day activities and, and just life in general that, you know, my days get filled. But for official fun, I would say, you know, I've been going to concerts, bowling, some alumni activities with other people that have been through the treatment center. I went through and through some of our sister programs. So hanging out with, with, you know, different people in recovery. And then, you know, I, I guess we were kind of talking about this earlier, is that, you know, sometimes I look around and I'm like, I don't think I've talked to a normal person weeks, you know, you're like, I am like, yeah, there you are. You got a real treat here, dude. So, yeah, the old fucking moron. So sometimes it's like, you know, I, I just go hang out with friends who have, you know, no dog in this fight, no, no real addiction issues and just kind of, just to kind of, I don't know, it's not to get away from it because I'm well aware that I never get away from, from who I am. But sometimes I feel like it is, it's nice to hear that the normal person's perspective on things. Yeah. You know, you know, whatever constitutes normal. Yeah. I'm never changing. I think it also shows like some growth on your end too, like where you don't have to stay away from certain people, you know what I mean? Right. Like they say in the, they say in the, in the book that you should be able to go wherever you want, you should get to, but you should be able to get to a place to where, to where you can go wherever you want and not feel right and not feel awkward or feel like, you know, how am I going to go do this? Yeah, like I'm not going to go to a wedding because they're going to be drinking there. Right. My sister's going to go to a concert because there's me alcohol there. Yeah. My sister's getting married. Second week of October. And I'm pretty sure that it's going to be a huge party because she told people not to bring their kids. Yeah. I think that's pretty much the neon mood. Yeah. That's the neon signs for let's get fucked up. Yeah. Her annotations are like leave the kids at home. Yeah. It's a lie. And I'm excited to go. Yeah. It's going to, it's going to be a blast. All right. So you've seen a ton of cont, or not maybe not a ton, but you've seen a lot of cont, not a ton, but I've started to go to more and more. Okay. So over the last year, while, while you've been sober, but just call it that, what's your favorite concert that you've been to so far? What's the coolest one? You dropped some cool names there. I mean, I saw deftones when they were here. So that's absolutely. I was on, I was on like on the floor. I spent like $500 on, on my ticket and went alone and didn't give a shit because it was amazing. But that's the one of my favorite bands of all. Oh, they're so damn good. And in a lot like he was so good live. Did you listen to the new album? I have not listened to the new album yet. It's bloat. That's almost the mind blowing thing to me is that the new album is great. I loved it, covered a cover. And being a follower of the deftone since I was like 12 and seeing and now at 40 and they're still putting out an album. That's really good. Right. And it's different. And it's it's fucking blows me away. I'm gonna listen to it on the way home. It's really good. You're the third person. You know, everyone. I think everyone's hesitant to listen to a band like that's new album when they've been around for so long. Always you'd Metallica put it all in the album. And I like it. That's exactly what I'm going to say is Metallica or I was never a huge guns and roses fan. But yeah, when they came out with whenever I had the type for destruction. Yes. Yeah. I remember just the collective like just shit. I always thought to say when Lincoln Park would come out with a new one. Yeah. Right. They're gonna shit. And it's crazy because they changed their music through the years. Because they get older and they become dads and shit. But they still pop out really good music. And even when when the guy killed himself got chestress. Yeah. Whenever he killed himself. We went and watched them when they came to Austin a few months ago. The girls phenomenal. That's why I've watched the videos over. She's amazing. She watched the crowd really well. And like it's still Lincoln Park. But now they have a female on there and resting piece to him. But man, she does a phenomenal job. Like that. I was real hesitant when my buddy gave us tickets. I was like, yeah, but it's Lincoln Park without right. How good is she? And then I started watching some videos of their newer songs. And I was like, Oh, she actually and she could sing fucking amazing. Yeah. The Devtones in Pantera are like my favorite bands from just pantera was just here. I don't want to go see them. I understand. And it's just and it's different. I'm sure it's amazing. I love Zach Wilde and the drummer from Anthrax is great. It's different. But it's also like I know what Dimebag and Vinnie both felt about a reunion. They both were against it. And the only reason why it's happening is because they're dead. Right. And I and to me, I know it just gives me a little feeling like this only is happening because two members of this band are gone. So you think if they were here, they would have never never never got back together. No, because Phil and Rex were always pushing for it. And they were just staunchly against it. And Vinnie, whenever Dime got assassinated on stage, he was against it because he was like, Pantera's four people. And you're that's my little brother that I watched it shot in the face on stage. And that was like my right arm. Yeah. That was my every single and you're asking me to go play the songs that we wrote together as a collective of four. So Pantera's four people. And if we don't have one of them, Pantera's not a thing. And Vinnie said that before he died and that made a lot of sense to me. Like as a guy who has a brother, you know, it's like that it wasn't about money. It wasn't about because he would have made, right when it was a money. And he wasn't about that. It was about the principal, the principal and the loss of his brother. Like I don't want to go up there and play those songs without him. Like it's just too painful. And then he passes away. It's not really just a Pantera cover band. We get a Pantera like reunion. Yeah. And I love them. And I appreciate what they're doing. But it's just it's a little too awkward or weird for me. But was Don Bagg your favorite? Favorite guitar player? Yeah. Dude, that's yeah. I mean, he's up there. I think he's definitely top five. Who's your top three guitar players? You have any guitar players? Yeah. This is a new question. Yeah. This is the one you never ask. Give me your top three too. Okay. But you go first. I always for some reason I always flip flump. Which one the guitarist for Zeppelin is? It's a Jimmy Page. Yeah. Page is a guitarist and plants the same year. Okay. Jimmy Page. Man, that's really hard. Air Clapton in cream. Yeah. I mean, I would say Jimmy Hendrix probably. Yeah. I mean, like any top three is going to have to have Jimmy in there. Nothing would look the way that it does now. And you can make that argument for Jimmy Page as well. Right. Without him. I'm going to be driving home. We're like, I mean, I feel like more on the three-hair rowing nose. But honestly, like, I don't know who I'm right. But you have Eddie Van Halen to dude Eddie. I was never a Van Halen fan. But I don't know. But he can, yeah, he can play the guitar like a tarlar. Yeah. We're just a fun. Yeah. Insane. I mean, Randy Rhodes. Do you like Stevie Ray Bond? Love Stevie Ray Bond. He's fantastic. Yeah. Love Stevie. Who's the other dude that does, is it Bonamassa? Joe Bonamassa is awesome. He's pretty phenomenal. Yeah. Joe Bonamassa is great. I mean, there's so many. That's really hard. And it's, you know, music is subjective, right? Like, my favorite bands are Pantera and except for the Beatles. The people that say they don't like the Beatles. I just, I'm just like you. So I like the Beatles. I can, I'll appreciate you saying that you don't like the Beatles. But you have to give them the fun. I think that there are most people who say they don't like the Beatles are just being contrarian. Yeah. Absolutely. Yeah. Absolutely. I was just where you tell us that. They're just being the opposite. They're really opposite. So here's this where you tell us that you don't like the Beatles. No, no, no. But I will tell you, I don't know a Beatles song unless you'll tell me what it is. And I'm sure I've heard a bunch of them. Oh, you've heard. But I don't know what's hard. You've heard. And I heard one time a long time ago that music today, like 90% of it that is played comes from something that the Beatles did. Does that make sense? But the, but if you listen to John Lennon and like a tar player, slip on my mind, I should know his name too. Paul McCartney, or George Harrison. George Harrison. Long Carnies and bases. George Harrison seemed to me of McCartney, Lennon, where like the the word Smiths, but Harrison was the musician of musician. Yeah, I think so too. And if you can listen to George Harrison's like interviews, and he's throwing it, he's like muddy waters. Yeah, I mean, he's one of my guitar gently. Yeah, he's probably one of my, it's probably my favorite Beatles song. You ever see Prince do that? Yes, I have. Yeah, the Ragnar Hall fan when he got inducted. It's insane. He did my guitar gently weeps. And I was like holy shit. Really slept on Prince as a guitar player. As a musician. Yeah, as a musician. He played everything. Yeah. So that, I mean, that's music is so subjective. And like dime is just my favorite guy. But this is I saw him when I was 11 years old. It was my first concert. And I remember seeing a metal band like up there having the time of their lives. Like, you know, usually metal is like very serious. And yeah, but dime was like smiling and running around the stage with this guitar. And you know, like acting like he's fucking, you know, the bass player and shit with this guitar, it was just it was fun. It was like, it was a unique band to me. Like, it probably had to do with me being 11 and being like, holy shit. That's the coolest thing. I have that full of 11. Pantera is fantastic. Yeah. Anyway, if you're ever around Dallas talking to people who were like older Texas, yeah, they all have like some kind of like Pantera, Pantera story. Yeah, they're like, like there was a I went into dime one time. Right. There's been I've had multiple ladies that worked at treatments centers that I was in like he's staying out with baby dolls. Yeah, I knew them. And yeah, I've had multiple people. The clubhouse. Yeah, the clubhouse. Yeah, the clubhouse was theirs. Yeah, was Vinnie and strip club. Of course. And obviously, baby dolls. Yeah, the clubhouse. But I think every big city has a baby doll. I was probably 13 when I went there for bachelor party. And I mean, they were just playing nothing but metal in there the whole time. It was like raised against the machine and like just that's the only band that I haven't seen that I would love to see them in offspring. Raging machine. I've never seen them. offspring was just here. And I didn't know that they were just here. Otherwise, I wouldn't watch them. Yeah, like it works. My favorite. And then five finger death punch. Yeah. Is the best them. They put on the best show that I've ever seen. I've been to probably 200 concerts. And believe it or not, Nickelback. Dude puts on one of the greatest concerts I've ever seen. And I'm saying like, you're worried. I'm just going to bro. Bro, bro, it's it's. I didn't. I give it the first time. No, hold on. I went to watch Nick. I went to watch other bands and not Nickelback. We were going to leave. But Nickelback was the mainliner. Uh huh. And we were like, well, we're already here. My buddy didn't want to leave that I was there with. And I'm like, I guess we'll watch these fucking losers. Bro, they fucking killed. I was they killed so much that every time they came to Austin, I bought tickets to go watch them again. I wasn't it was insane. But people for some reason just hated them. My my sister saw creed, maybe yeah, six months going. So they killed it. Yeah. So they were bad ass. Yeah. Yeah. So Charlie Sheen documentary on Netflix. Mm hmm. The Nickelback. Oh, the Nickelback documentary. Yeah. I was in the camp of fuck Nickelback until I watched that. And I was like, these guys, I mean, they they leaned into the fucking everybody hates us. But they're like, they hate us so bad that we keep filling up fucking stadiums. Right. You know, so like, but they were very upfront about it. And they were like something weird happened. We wrote a ballad. And then it was like, I fuck that band like they suck. But if you and then I went and put them on iTunes or whatever, I was like, these are not bad song. Yeah. After the the chip ones that were on the radio or whatever, like the ones outside of it, I was like, I mean, they did the same thing to Green Day when they wrote a time of our lives. A little bit. Yeah. Green Day was a little bit fathered in too. Yeah. But I read an magazine article and I was I had to be pretty young when that song came out that it was calling Green Day Posers. Yeah. And that how everyone was going to turn against them. They're still there. Thank you. Yeah. They put out another record right after that. Yeah. It was awesome. And like, yeah. It's we've talked about this before. But it's like as and you just said it, but as guys get older, should changes with them, they go through different experiences. Metallica puts out the first three albums and they're just brimstone and hellfire. Yeah. Like all of them. They're just as heavy as it gets and crazy. And then they're like, and nothing else matters. It's like they grew up. They got they came 40 year old men who battled addiction and like all this shit, they can't just be fucking yeah. Mind bending fucking crushing. And at this point, if they were putting out the same exact style, people would be saying that, you know, they're just redundant or yeah. Well, unless you're slayer, right. Slayer get there ain't no fucking ballads and slayers catalog like. I've been to a slayer in hate breed concert. That's so good. And the mosh pit was like fucking insane. Yeah. It was stupid for like three songs because it's a lot of old dudes. Yeah. Like me, they get tired. Yeah. They were like 12 minutes. This was like 20 years ago. Yeah. Oh, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. This was 20 years there in the middle of it. Yeah, dude. But corn. I like corn too. Corn is always one of the hard to heard that corn concerts are amazing. Yeah. Are they're really good. Live. They're really good. I went to watch corn. Yeah. They were really good. If they come back around, I'll definitely. They definitely go to me. We were supposed to see modest mouse. Monest mouse. Remember. So when corn, it was the family values tour. Remember that? Yeah. So it was corn and there was some other good. There was a family family value store. Always has good. They were great. They were great. And corn when Jonathan Davis came out, he so we were in the pit, but it had been raining. And they had like plywood on the ground for you to stand on. And it was all muddy and wet already. And then he come out with the fire hose and sprayed everybody right from the get go like a fire fire hose. Yeah. Yeah. And then they played the song blind blind. Yeah. Yeah. And if you know the song blind, like for the first two minutes, yeah, it's just fucking ramping. Yeah. Oh, yeah. And then fucking one state. Fucking it just went crazy. Yeah. Yeah. And yeah. Corn was amazing. Corn was fucking awesome. Well, so we need to go to some concerts. Yeah. We got a concert. We should do a two addicts and a moron little gathering out of concert. I think that'd be fun. That'd be to tight. Yeah. To tight. Toad. Toad. Toad. Toad. Toad. And toad. And toad. And toad. Toad like a toy. Toad. No, toad like man's anus. Right? I've already says toad like a tiger. Toad. Toad like man's anus. Like man's anus. Yeah. Well, look, I think we got another one in the books here. You know, we got our special delivery of Chipotle coming in the house right? Perfectly timed. Yeah. Perfectly timed. Thank you so much for coming in, dude. Yeah, absolutely. I appreciate it. And I do want to get a little selfish here and talk about our trip to Iowa. Yeah, let's do it a little bit. Give a we got invited to go to a sober event in Iowa here recently. This is the first time our clown show ever got asked on the road. Go on the road. Yeah, that's awesome video. Yeah, man. It was actually going to post some more stuff now. Yeah, we have some more content coming soon to everybody. But Marshalltown, Iowa, God's Wade ministry, great host put on a great event and saw it fit for our dumbasses to be out there. And I mean, it was one of the biggest honors of my life. It's weird to say that being sent to Marshalltown, Iowa was an honor of my life. But it really was. Yeah. Those people were so good. All the guys in the houses. Bro, the nicest sober living I've ever seen in my life. Really, dude. Yeah, so the guy that that brought us up there, he runs, he's only been doing it for what a year and a half. He bought one sober living, got another one, and they got another one. It was the nicest. It makes this place look like shit. I mean, he had a nice, really nice set up for these guys. It was insane. The backyard was. How many guys in a house? So we talking. What did at each house was like eight? Maybe he had. I think you said there was nine. Was it nine? At the one we were at. And then you had a couple others that we didn't get to go to. But apparently they kind of used this one as sort of a hub. They're all very close to each other. Barbecue and in the show. They were just barbecue and the guys couldn't have been any nicer. All super cool. It was kind of like the guys that we had at Solstice. If you could imagine a group of those type guys at this sober living altogether. It was pretty tight. If we all went to sober living together, it would have been mayhem. Yeah. In the best way possible. Yeah. I mean, I think you get enough dudes around each other. And it'll end up being mayhem. Whether there's drugs there or not. Let's try. Just going to be endless farts and dick juice. Yeah. Like given dudes pink eye rubbing your ass on their pillows. But yeah, it was it was awesome. Rob was awesome. Rob was great. Kelsey. Kelsey was awesome. It was great. And all the guys that we met. I've been keeping in contact with a couple of them. Fucking really cool dudes. It was it was crazy because they they acted as if like we were such a we were like celebrities coming out there. Yeah. And we're far from that. And we were just honored just to be there. Yeah. It was our honor. But these these guys were it was these guys were stuck knew he or been listened to you like so pumped. Yeah. That is in Iowa. That's amazing. That's so awesome. But that blew me away. Yeah. Like I still I still struggle with like it was that it was that trip that really set in my site that I need to stop putting bars on this thing like putting ceilings on it. Because if you would have told me a year and a half ago that we were going to be in here. And it was going to take us to a little town in Iowa at a big sober event. And we were going to be representing a brand. Speaking in front of hundreds of people. Speaking at a thing and they would give us shit. It was it was insane. It was really there was a moment when we were me him and destiny were there. And we were we were we're using these in the hotel or eating or something. And I was like y'all realize that our fucking podcast has us in fucking Iowa. Yeah man. It was it was so surreal. You know it was really a cool cool thing. It still is man. Like when we were there. Like it was probably every night where it was like it was heavy. Like it was heavy on me. Like before I was going to sleep I was like man. Like we have a responsibility here. Like now it's like a real responsibility. You know like to to do this before it was just a couple dickheads coming into a room and speaking into a dick shaped mic. But now it's something like something like some like harbinger of hope to these people. Like these guys you know but their story will be too. I mean I hope so. You know. And all the the people that I've listened to the you guys have had on it's like you guys have platformed a lot of I think a lot of growth and recovery for people. But I feel like it's a lot of it has to do with you coming here to sit here and everybody that's on this wall. You know you're definitely the most important of the three, the two addicts and moron. Whoever sits there is literally the most important person to show. I mean you're bringing a whole new perspective. Yeah. Bringing a whole different thing. And we'll never lose sight of that. And I say it all the time and I'll leave you and we'll leave you with this. But I know that you came in here and you're very intelligent. You got your shit together and you made that look really easy. But it's not man. Like it's not easy to come in here and get vulnerable on a platform where a lot of people are going to listen and see it. Right. But for you guys to come in and do that is I'll never lose sight of of how important that chair is it's way more important than ours. So thank you so much for coming on here and we should definitely do it again. And I'll say this, leave everybody with this. But I know you're at sober living in your attack at a place. You're very involved. You ever need us for anything. You let us know we'll come running. We'd be happy to involve ourselves in anything that you've got a part of. Absolutely. Absolutely. It's been it's been it's been pleasure guys. I really appreciate you'll have me on. Yeah, do you honestly. Thank you. Thank you. It kind of feels honestly it's such a it's such a fucking blessing to have something to say that might be of benefit to somebody. You know, the opportunity to say it and hopefully it resonates with somebody. That's amazing. I feel it's one of them, dude. And it's going to, you know, at minimum, you're going to something you said on here is going to resonate with someone. I promise you. So couldn't be any more thankful for that. And honored to have you in here. So with that being said, love you. Thank you guys. Thank you for coming brother. Like subscribe. I appreciate love you. Yeah. Thank you. Love you Joe. Love you Seth. Hey, love you Alan. Look at Oh, yes. Love you too. Love you Alan. Look at one of our big, biggest supporters, man. I just I love you to death. Yes.