A NAWAC Researcher Shares New Encounters And Activity From Area X

Target Circle 360 and shipped same-day delivery make reducing the number of subscriptions I'm paying for simple. You see, Target Circle 360 gets me same-day delivery from tons of stores, not just Target, through shipped. We're talking raspberries for my favorite local grocer, craft supplies for Michaels, puppy food from PetSmart, and more. Terms apply. Learn more at shipped.com slash 360. That's shipt.com slash 360. If you've got Target Circle 360, you've got to start using shipped same-day delivery. Shipped is bundled with Target Circle 360, so with one subscription, I can order delivery from not just Target and grocery stores, but PetSmart, Lowe's Home Improvement, Michaels, and more. Shipped isn't just another perk. They were awarded the number one delivery experience by an independent study in 2025. So yeah, they're the real deal. Terms apply. Learn more at shipped.com slash 360. That's shipt.com slash 360. Target Circle 360 and shipped same-day delivery make reducing the number of subscriptions I'm paying for simple. You see, Target Circle 360 gets me same-day delivery from tons of stores, not just Target, through shipped. We're talking raspberries for my favorite local grocer, craft supplies for Michaels, puppy food from PetSmart, and more. Terms apply. Learn more at shipped.com slash 360. That's shipt.com slash 360. You're listening to Bigfoot Society, and I'm Jeremiah Byron. In this show, we go beyond the campfire stories to bring you firsthand encounters from people who say they've seen something impossible, from backwoods, trails, and remote mountain haulers to quiet farms and crowded highways. The stories come from everywhere, and each one leaves us with more questions than answers. These are the voices of the people who've lived it to settle in, because today you'll hear another account that just might change the way you see the woods forever. So stay with us. All right, Bigfoot Society, welcome back to another episode. Today, we've got the privilege of talking to researcher Tami Grimes. Tami is another researcher and a board member of the NAWAC, and you've heard from board member Rick just recently, was able to get Tami on the show as well, which is incredible. We're definitely going to have a discussion about things to do with Area X and research that's going on down there in southeast Oklahoma. But welcome to the show, Tami. How are you doing today? Thank you very much for having me. I'm doing very well. Thank you. I'm glad to be here and looking forward to our discussion. Absolutely. Is there anything else that you would like the listeners to know about yourself for context before we get going? For context, I think that one of the questions that I get quite frequently, of course, is I think everyone who does this gets a question of what brought you to this, or what my background is that would lead me to this. And I don't have the typical background, I think, that people think of when you think of a Sasquatch researcher, a wood ape investigator, in that I'm not a hunter. I don't have issue with hunting. My husband is a hunter. I personally don't hunt. But I don't come from that typical background. I spend a lot of time in the woods. I'm a hiker. I love camping and I grew up doing things. But what led me to this is a little different. I did have an encounter when I was very young. But I think a lot of investigators have this background of this hardened, a lot of background with hunting and that type of thing. So people, they look at me, I have an office job, and I spend most of my day in front of a computer. And I think that surprises people when they find out that this is how I spend, if I'm not in the office, this is how I spend the bulk of my free time. When I'm not with my family and I'm on the office, I'm in the woods investigating and I think that that is something that catches people off guard when they find out that that's how what I do with my great time and how it led me, how I got here is a little different from what most people experience. Do you mind sharing a few minutes about the encounter that you had as a younger child? Absolutely. I would be happy to. I didn't tell people for a long time because it comes with a stigma. And I've gotten to a point now where I found it's helpful for me, but it's also helpful for other people to hear about my encounter. So I'm happy to share. When I was four years old, I grew up in an area that is connected to the green swamp in Central Florida. And I remember looking out my window, out my bedroom window, it was one of my favorite things to do. My parents thought I was in bed asleep, but I was not. And I saw something out the side yard and I was, my window was about 60 off the ground. So I had a pretty good height above the ground and I could see there's like a utility shed for gardening tools and things. And I could see something moving over the top of the shed and the apex of the shed was probably about six feet high, five and a half, 60 high. And I could see something moving over the top of the shed. So I remember watching it and it approached from my right hand side. And very quickly, it was right in front of the window and I was, it was looking down at me. It was probably maybe 10 to 12 feet away from the window. So it was actually very close, but it was massive. It was the, what I refer to someone, someone named Lou Ferrigno as the closest. It had that body build and very muscular, very broad across the shoulders, kind of tapered at the waist. It walked with a slightly forward bent. Its arms were very long. Its hands were almost touching the ground, not quite, but it stood there for quite a while and we made eye contact. I could see where the hair started on it, on its face, like under the eye here under the orbital bone. The long, the length of the upper lip from the nose to the top of the lip was very, very long. And it did have slight, slight lip, not like humans do, but it did have a slight lip and a little bit longer of a, not a beard, but the, the hair on its chin was a little bit longer than the hair that came off the rest of the jawline. The forehead was very flat and it came up, the head came up to, to a point, so it had a very defined sag of a crest and no neck. I, I remember seeing that it just, it went from like head to shoulders and the animal stood there and looked at me for, I don't exactly know how long because I was four years old. And then it suddenly took off and the speed at which it took off was absolutely astonishing. It startled me. I went and told my parents, there's a monster outside, it's really big, I don't know what it was. And I, I know those words because my mother repeated them to me recently. She, she recalls me coming to them and telling them they thought I was asleep. She put me back to bed, said, you're just having a bad dream. And which is what any parent would do. I unfortunately had nightmares for 25 years from that encounter because I was trying to reconcile what my parents were, what my mother told me. There's no such thing as monsters to what I saw and I could not put that out of my mind. I could not get rid of the fact that, that I saw this animal. And although I kept having this recurring dream over and over, the thing that it wasn't that the animal was right in my face. That, that was a scary dream. But the thing that always frightened me the most was the speed at which this animal moves. Because I knew, I knew at four years old, I knew that there was nothing you could do if that animal wanted to catch you. There's nothing you could do to get away from it. And it wasn't until I was in the second grade, there was a small book in my classroom, a little classroom library on cryptids. And flipping through the book and it had things like fairies and wood carvings of werewolves and vampires and things like that. But the book only contained two photographs. One was of the lot, Miss Monster and the other was frame 352 from the Patterson-Gimlin film. And when I saw that, I immediately recognized that as a real animal. And then of course in 1977, when the In Search of episode came out, I remember sitting in the living room floor in front of the television and I asked my mom, says, show real. And she said, well, I don't know. It's probably make believe. But I knew what I was looking at was the same type of animal. She looked different body shape, but I knew that it was the same animal and I knew that animal was real. I didn't talk about it though because there was nobody who wanted to talk about it. Everyone was telling me it was just that you're just having nightmares put in out of your head. And kind of one of those, if you focus on it, it's just going to make a worse type situations. And that's what you would expect parents to tell their children. But I did. I suffered with really, really bad nightmares for 25 years as a result of that encounter. That is incredible. And what an active area, the green swamp is, what year did this happen approximately? This would have been in 71, the winter. This would have been the winter of 71 or 72. So I let the listeners do the math on that. And it was, at that time, the term Bigfoot was not common in Central Florida. That was not a topic that we had really heard. The legend of Boggy Creek. I remember seeing that movie at the drive-in, My Parents. We all went on family night. We went to see that film. But that was after, we didn't see that until after I had had this encounter. But I also knew that what I was looking at was Hollywood costume. I could definitely tell the difference as a child. I knew that that was not a real thing, that that was someone in a costume. But this was not, the closest thing I'd ever heard, my grandmother referred to it. My dad's mom referred to it as a wood-booker. Now she was from Arkansas. My dad's female is from Arkansas. And she said, if you dwell on them, all you're going to do is, is you draw the wood-bookers to you. That's kind of the terminology that she would use. So you don't want to dwell on them. You don't want to focus on them. So, but that was the closest terminology that I had heard used. Wood-bookers, hates, haunts. Those were the type of terms that were used for things that were in the woods. And other than that, it was not until the film, I think the legend of Boggy Creek came out, in the Patterson-Gimlin film, the Episteriopon, in search of when that came out, that that terminology became more familiar language in my little part of the world, at least. It wasn't something that was discussed in conversation when I was growing up. It just wasn't something that the kids, and I talked about, it was not, we didn't talk about that in school. It wasn't a term that we were familiar with until after that, really until after that in search of episode came out. Okay. And you've got more information on a website called SasquatchScience.org about research in the Greenswab, correct? That's correct. That's correct. It's a work in progress, but that is a website that I've launched rather recently to try to compile some of the activity, some of the research that I've been conducting. We have been, there's a small group of people that I know locally, of researchers, investigators, who we are trying to keep constant scientific research going in the Greenswab. And in doing so, trying to further the database on these animals, their behaviors, the locations, that sort of thing. And we've been able to put together some documentation, at least for our own use of consistency of where the animals tend to be during different seasonally, and we're trying to put together information that we can try and document from a behavioral standpoint of what the animals are doing and where they are at different times of the year within the Greenswab. The Greenswab is 930 plus square miles of wilderness of managed wildlife management area. And there's a lot of development going on around this area, around the Greenswab, and in places right through the Greenswab. So the habitat is being changed on a daily basis, and we're concerned what that impact is doing to all of the animals that live there. I conducted research years, yeah, a year ago on what the impact is during hunting season in areas where there is no hunting. So it's a wildlife management area inside the, within the WMA that doesn't have hunting during the rest of hunting season. And what that does to wildlife, to the smaller prey species, and they're almost non-existent toward the end of hunting season. I did a transect sampling study and couldn't find sign of small animals, possums, raccoons, rabbits. I know that they're there, but they were very scarce, and they should have on any other time of year, you would see a lot of tracks for possums and otters and things like that. If you've got Target Circle 360, you've got to start using shipped same-day delivery. Shipped is bundled with Target Circle 360, so with one subscription, I can order delivery from not just Target and grocery stores, but PetSmart, Lowe's Home Improvement, Michaels, and more. Shipped isn't just another perk. They were awarded the number one delivery experience by an independent study in 2025. So yeah, they're the real deal. Terms apply. Learn more at shipped.com slash 360. That's shipt.com slash 360. Target Circle 360 and shipped same-day delivery make reducing the number of subscriptions I'm paying for simple. You see, Target Circle 360 gets me same-day delivery from tons of stores, not just Target, through Shipped. We're talking raspberries for my favorite local grocer, craft supplies for Michaels, puppy food from PetSmart, and more. Terms apply. Learn more at shipped.com slash 360. That's shipt.com slash 360. If you've got Target Circle 360, you've got to start using shipped same-day delivery. Shipped is bundled with Target Circle 360, so with one subscription, I can order delivery from not just Target and grocery stores, but PetSmart, Lowe's Home Improvement, Michaels, and more. Shipped isn't just another perk. They were awarded the number one delivery experience by an independent study in 2025. So yeah, they're the real deal. Terms apply. Learn more at shipped.com slash 360. That's shipt.com slash 360. But during hunting season, animals are compressed into this smaller area. By smaller, it's 11,000 acres. And there's something going on that's compressing these animals there, and it is putting strain on the ecosystem while this is going on. And then when hunting season ends, the animals seem to kind of just either the prey animals are coming back to that area, or the predators are leaving that area, and it's allowing the prey species to come back. I don't have enough data to determine what the causes are yet. I was just able to determine that there does seem to be data indicating that there's pressure, that this pressure on the environment exists during hunting season. And that's the kind of thing that we are looking at to see what's going on in total in the green swamp that is affecting all of the animals, not just this one particular species, but if it's affecting one species, it's affecting all of them. So it's going to affect the black bear. And we've recently found Panther tracks. So it is definitely impacting multiple species when we're seeing this type of activity. Wow, that's some wild stuff. I've not heard any of that information about the green swamp yet. So you are definitely doing some pretty detailed research down there. I'd say listeners definitely want to check out the website and keep an eye on it for sure. But, you know, Tammy, how did you get involved with the NAWAC? I have my mom to thank for that. Going back to when I was four years old and she said, oh, it's just a bad drink, a bad. She was in 2022. She was on a Sunday drive with a friend. A little bit south of where I live in Pult County is an area where they do a lot of phosphate mining. And after the mining is completed, they put Topso back on and they allow nature to reclaim the land because you can't really build there. The soil just doesn't allow for that. So it makes some really nice country drives. And she was on a Sunday drive with a friend and they were rounding a corner and she looked up and there was a berm that the berms hold in the backfill from the phosphate process. And she, the berm is probably 25 feet high. There were no trees. There's no shrubs. There's no structures there. But she looked up at the top of this berm and she saw a figure, a large, bulky figure in mid stride. You've got this type of stride. And it startled her. She was afraid to say anything because she was afraid the person she was with would stop and she did not want to be there. So she didn't say anything. As soon as she got home, she called me and she said, I, what do you think I saw? And I was like, I don't know, Mom, what do you think you saw? So knowing that I've been had this kind of a mild obsession with Bigfoot Sasca to my whole life. She keeps asking me questions. So I went on a search for, certainly there's an organization who's doing scientific study on the species with all of the television shows, all the podcasts that are out there. There has to be an organization who's doing legitimate scientific study. And in trying to find the answers for my mom, I came across the NAWAC website. I read the information that was on the website. I was really impressed with the approach that the organization took and took a chance. As I mentioned before, my background doesn't really wind toward what a lot of other investigators bring to the table. But I applied and I was accepted as a member of the organization. And I've not regretted not one minute of it. I have spent since November of 2022, I have spent as much time as possible learning from the people in the organization, not discounting what other people are doing, not by a long shot, because they are people who are doing incredible work. But the numbers of the NAWAC, we have some of the top minds and thinkers and investigators and researchers in the subject who are out often who are applying the science. And if they can't get in the field to buy the science, they are sharing ideas. That's something that you don't always encounter in this particular field, people who are willing to share. They're willing to share what they know, they're willing to share what they found. And the collaboration of this organization is what really, that's the biggest benefit for me, is being able to pick the brains of people like Alton Higgins and Bob Strain, Kathy Strain, having access to these individuals who have decades, if you were to take an ad up collectively, the years of knowledge, hundreds, we have centuries of knowledge on the subject. And it's there just for the asking. And if you don't know, if someone doesn't know the answer, there are plenty of people there to collaborate on that with ideas to not part toward a solution. The background of the members range from educators to veterinarians and medical doctors, firemen, police officers, military, and other branches, biologists. It covers the board, the GANET pilots. We have people from a very broad range of backgrounds who are bringing your expertise to the table. And even if it's not one of the members, his day-to-day job is in the field of construction, actually several members, their day-to-day job is in the field of construction. But the skill set that they bring to the table is that you give them a challenge, say, oh, who thinks that, what would be cool if we had something that did this? Give them a few days and they're going to come up, like, build it for themselves. They'll come up with this gadget or the solution. And it's because they're used to working with their heaths. They're used to building things and making things. So it's not even what they do day-to-day. It's the skill set that they bring to the organization and that they're willing to share. It's that incredible treasure trove of knowledge that the organization provides. That's what I love about the organization. For those that, you know, this is maybe the first introduction to the NAWAC, can you share a little bit about what the goal of the organization is? What is publicly known about where they're focused and things like that? Sure, absolutely. The overarching mission of the organization is to prove to science and to the government agencies the existence of the species that we refer to as the North American. The goal for doing that is so that we can enact efforts to preserve their environment for the sake of conservation. It would be an absolute shame if we found out too late that the species exists, if we can't act in time to preserve them. If the species goes extinct, we have species, hundreds of species going extinct the first day. And we even have species that are identified and, oh, look, here's a brand new species. And it is identified, it is recognized, and it goes extinct because we're not able to act to preserve their environment and act of conservation. To be able to save the species, that's what we're trying to do. Our mission is to get the species recognized and be able to enact conservation efforts across the country. We are not just in Oklahoma. That's where Area X is identified. Area X is not named Area X because it's a mystery. It's named Area X because Y and Z didn't pan out. There are other areas. It was just like an alphabetical labeling. And it's just Area X is the one that panned out. But it does have this mystery, and of course X marched the spot and all of those things. But that's not the only place where the organization conducts investigations. We have members who are conducting their own investigations, as I do in Florida, members that are all over the country who are conducting investigations in their own locations. They are people who are investigating in Texas and Louisiana and wherever they call home in Maine. We literally have members in all four corners of the continent. But we also respond when people contact the organization they've had an encounter. If they've had a sighting, we will have an investigator contact them. We will either talk to them if possible. We will go to the location. I did an investigation recently that was in the Greenswaw. We will walk that investigation. We will go through the entire encounter with them if possible and try to collect as much data as we can for the purpose of adding to what we know the species as far as what are the behaviors, what are their seasonally, if we can pull together information about where they are in different times of the year. They don't tend to be specifically more active at one time of day or at night because we have people who have sightings during the day. We have people who have sightings at night. But different types. Did it whistle at you? Did it knock on a tree? Did it throw a rocket at you? Behaviorally, we try to keep track of all of those things so that we can try to create all of these data points and use them to create a picture of what this animal does. How does it communicate? How does it behave? Because eventually, we will get to a point where it's not a question of whether or not this animal exists. It will become a question of what do they do? What do they like? And when we get past that, if you think back, it hasn't been that long ago, 130 years ago, that the mountain gorilla was considered a myth until it was finally documented. And it was even less time than that, that the panda was identified. It was again considered to be a mythical creature until science finally identified it. In the scheme of species, that's like no time at all, really. So identifying a new species, especially a primate, it's December 2020, 2024. There was a very new primate identified and I think the guy was researching one square acre along Amazon and identified a new primate while he was there. Identifying a new species, that happens quite frequently. Primates are less frequent, but they do happen. Discovering new primates happens. Getting this one discovered is not so much about getting science to recognize it. It's first overcoming the stigma associated with identifying this as a legitimate species. But the bigger issue is that this animal is incredibly intelligent, more so than people realize. And the more time you spend investigating this animal, the more you realize how intelligent they are. Primates in general are really, really smart. This one has got to be the smartest as far as primates go of the Great Apes. Second to humans, this has to be the smartest of the primates because they've learned how to avoid humans. Wow. How close do you feel that the organization is to getting that goal that you have? We have gotten close. It's hard to say how close because it's close. So you play in horseshoes or hand grenades, that kind of thing. I have had an animal come in very close to me. Other investigators have had animals coming very close to them, so close that they could literally hear what was described as asthmatic breathing. Target Circle 360 and shipped same-day delivery make reducing the number of subscriptions I'm paying for simple. You see, Target Circle 360 gets me same-day delivery from tons of stores, not just Target, through SHIPPED. We're talking raspberries for my favorite local grocer, craft supplies for Michaels, puppy food from PetSmart, and more. Terms apply. Learn more at shipped.com slash 360. That's shipt.com slash 360. If you've got Target Circle 360, you've got to start using shipped same-day delivery. SHIPPED is bundled with Target Circle 360, so with one subscription, I can order delivery from not just Target and grocery stores, but PetSmart, Lowes Home Improvement, Michaels, and more. SHIPPED isn't just another perk. They were awarded the number one delivery experience by an independent study in 2025. So yeah, they're the real deal. Terms apply. Learn more at shipped.com slash 360. That's shipt.com slash 360. Target Circle 360 and shipped same-day delivery make reducing the number of subscriptions I'm paying for simple. You see, Target Circle 360 gets me same-day delivery from tons of stores, not just Target, through SHIPPED. We're talking raspberries for my favorite local grocer, craft supplies for Michaels, puppy food from PetSmart, and more. Terms apply. Learn more at shipped.com slash 360. That's shipt.com slash 360. And you got to be pretty close to an animal to hear it respirate. That's a close proximity to this animal. Getting evidence, there's lots of ways to go about collecting evidence. And it again comes down to what science is going to identify. People will ask me, oh, I've got this picture of a big foot. Will you look at it? And you see a picture and it's really a blob. And I will tell them, you know, keep up the good work, keep trying. But at the benchmark, if it's not better than the Patterson-Gimlin film, it's probably not done to move the needle forward. That said, with AI today, getting video, getting photos, still not going to move the needle forward. We need evidence, scientific evidence, that is going to either supplement or really drag the message home if we do have video or photo. We have to have more than just images at this point. So we are doing a press for EDNA. We're doing a press for trying to collect other types of evidence. That could include, with hair samples are proving very difficult to come by, but it is something that we are constantly vigilant for. We are also always on the lookout for opportunities to find any other type of evidence. Animals die, especially primates. They lose teeth. And if we happen to be out and water flows downhill and washes things downhill with them. So when we are in the in-area acts, when we are walking around, we are constantly on the lookout for bones and teeth and things like that. It would be wonderful if we could chirp across a bone or a tooth or something like that. They're rare in North America. Teeth, probably easier to find because they stay around the longest when we're talking about what's left over from skeletal remains. But North America is just not very kind to remains. And that's why we don't have, people say, why can't you find fossil evidence or why can't you find skeletal evidence? You might find hog. You might find deer, carcass. You rarely find bear, carcass, just lying in the woods. And usually when you do find deer or fog, it's been hit by a car or it's a hunter that has shot the animal and left the rest of the carcass there. You don't find things like bear just in the woods. It's rare. You can, but it's rare. These animals are even more rare than black bear and they're very hard to find. It would be great if we could chirp across one. What I'm getting to is the thing that most people are most uncomfortable about and that is that it is the mission of the organization to pull up the type specimen. It is not because we are mean. It is not because we hate these animals. On the contrary, it is because we are devoted to getting this animal recognized and it is not our wishes. It is science that demands a type specimen. If you've ever taken your child or a few yourself have ever gone to any natural history museum, you are going to see type specimens. Thousands of them. They're not made up of nylon. They're not made up of man made materials. The type specimens that you see in the Natural History Museum used to be living animals and they are now in that museum for people to learn from them. It is not our intention to go in and wipe out a troop of these animals. We simply are trying to get evidence so that we can document the species. If we can do that without collecting a type specimen, that would absolutely be preferred. Science dictates otherwise. And that makes people feel uncomfortable. It makes me uncomfortable. I am personally not a collector for the organization. There are individuals who are identified. They are carefully screened. I am not a hunter. So I would not be a good candidate for that. But I also know that there are things I didn't like taking my child to have a doctor's appointment either. There are things you have to do. You have to take your children to the dentist and the dentist does things to them that makes them unhappy. There are things that we have to do that make us unhappy. And this is one of the things that is not something we are blood thirsty to do. This is something that is necessary for us to be able to get the species identified. It is the way science has worked from the beginning when it comes to biology and getting species recognized. It can be not a fun conversation. Does the organization have a plan in mind? Let's imagine for a minute that someone does have a wood ape in their sights. They are 100% sure that this is not a human. So I am going to pull the trigger and then we will have a type specimen. If there are other wood apes around, logically, one is to think there will be retaliation. What is the plan in order to successfully harvest that type specimen and to be quite honest, not get yourself killed in the process? There is a plan for that. We don't know what is going to happen. Primates behave differently. Some primates will, if they hear gunshot, they will take off and run. Animals in general generally do take off and run. We have anecdotal evidence and that is all to go on. Think about the ape canyon. In that incident, according to the retelling of that story, the apes retaliated. In other incidents, stories where hunters say they have shot an animal, it just disappeared. The body just disappeared. There was one, I don't remember, I want to say it was in the Smoky Mountains where a hunter reported shooting one and went to their retreat and it was gone. So don't know if it was for sure dead or if it was a family member came to recover it. We don't know because it hasn't happened yet. We do know that the animals in response to gunfire will vacate the area. But we don't know what is going to happen if an animal is in fact taken. There are other primates that, a friend who was telling me that it was hallow monkeys, that he was in the military, and a hallow monkey was shot and the rest of the troop responded and retaliated. Really? Yes. And they are incredibly strong and can kill you hallow monkeys if it doesn't take a whole bunch of them. They are very strong. Chimpanzees can kill an adult man and primates are strong. People forget that just because it's smaller than you doesn't mean that it's stronger than you. Play tug of war with your dog. Right? So they are muscular and strong and we don't know what these animals are going to do. And wood apes are particularly large. They are incredibly agile as I mentioned before. They move probably the fastest land animal. I've never seen a cheetah with my own eyes. I understand the fastest land animal. I would imagine that it has to be equally as fast. The speed is, until you've seen one move, the agility and the speed, it's impossible to describe to someone. It's like trying to describe how big the Grand Canyon is to someone who's never seen it. If you haven't seen how fast these animals move, it's impossible to describe. And if you haven't seen how large they are, it's impossible to describe. They are solid muscle. So if they did decide to retaliate, it would be very dangerous. There is a plan in place. The plan is, I don't want to get into too much detail because that's proprietary for the organization. But the plan first and foremost is security for the team members who are on that particular operation. Safety and security for the members is one of the reasons why we don't try and keep Area X private often. We don't keep the location private because we're trying to lock away a secret from the world. The reason that we don't publicly broadcast where it is is because it's private property. The property members have a right to their privacy, but it is also to protect the safety of our investigators. It is to protect the animals themselves because we don't want people out there. The animals have a right to live out their lives and their happy lives. They have a right to not be harassed in their home environment. We don't want people to be tripping into the area where they don't belong if there is an operation going on and get hurt. There are a lot of animals out there that can hurt you. Not just apes, but we also don't want someone tripping. We don't want to be reduced to be basically. Safety is first and foremost when we're doing an operation. Safety is first and foremost. Safety for the investigators. Safety for anyone else who may be on the property because they're the private property in the area. There's also a national forest area nearby. We don't want to risk the safety of anyone who may be legally on national forest land, including national forest service. We always put safety first. Second to that would be securing that type specimen. If we get to the point where we do collect the amount of time and effort and energy and planning that is going into making that successful, we want to make sure that we're able to secure the type specimen as well. That would be second only to personal safety. 100% is logistically, I can't imagine it because there's questions like, do you have the whole specimen? Do you have parts of the specimen? Then once you have it, where is it being taken and how is it getting there? How are you potentially not getting stopped along the way? There's all these questions that are definitely proprietary. All those questions have been discussed. A lot of it is we have to let our investigators and the team leads for each of the operations. We have to rely on them. The team leads are selected based on their experience in Area X based on their experience as you were presenting the type of individual that we need, that we believe is going to provide best judgment in those types of situations. We rely on the team leader when they're out there to make those decisions. Again, what are we doing if something goes sideways? Who is going to beforehand, before the operation starts? It's already dictated who has what role in the event. If it's a collection team in the event this happens, what is your role? Everyone is expected to assume that role to make sure that the operation goes smoothly from the time that the collection is made until the specimen is secured wherever that location is determined to be. Absolutely. Rick had mentioned a few really interesting things that have happened over the past five years. Something I would want to talk to you about today is you are involved with the all-female asset team, correct? That's correct. That's awesome. Can you describe how that came to be, how it works, and maybe some interesting interactions that have come about because of it? Sure. It came about, I have to back up to the year prior. I talk about just, it was like a week of master class. My very first week in Area X was with Alton Higgins, Daryl Collier, and Matt Pruitt. I mean, like, it really, it was an amazing week. I learned so much about the topic and all three of them are just, they represent the best of what we're trying to do. And I appreciate the opportunity so much to be able to learn from them. But what led me to that particular team was a conversation that we had had on the forum that they wanted to try and emulate the sounds of women and children because people report that when women and children are in the woods, it tends to attract the attention of these animals. If you've got Target Circle 360, you've got to start using SHiPt Same Day Delivery. SHiPt is bundled with Target Circle 360, so with one subscription, I can order delivery from not just Target and grocery stores, but PetSmart, Lowe's Home Improvement, Michaels, and more. That isn't just another perk. They were awarded the number one delivery experience by an independent study in 2025. So, yeah, they're the real deal. Terms apply. Learn more at www.ships.com. That's shipt.com. At Verbo, we understand that even the best of plans sometimes need a little support, so we plan for the plot twists. Every booking is automatically backed by our Verbo Care Guarantee, giving you confidence from the very start. Whenever you need help, it's ready before you stay, through the moments in between, and after your trip. Because a great trip starts with Peace of Mind and maybe a good playlist, but we've got the Peace of Mind part covered. So, I sent a private message and said, okay, here's the deal. At this time, I wasn't even an investigator yet. I was just an associate member. I said, but if I'm invited to Area X, I would be willing to be that noisemaker. I would, you know, sound like a girl, look like a girl, smell like a girl, right? And it was kind of an opportunity to test what that might... It's not that women don't go. We have women investigators in the organization. But typically, so often what the operations are, it's very much the ideas to go in covertly, in camo, go in in the hides to try to get pictures, you know, try to go in covertly. I was going to do the complete opposite. I was going to be very out in the open. I was going to be as obvious as I could, laughing, singing, talking. I literally took perfume in to the valley, right, just so that I into Area X, so that I could smell different. I took a dress and this is really, really funny. It's basically a little Donna Reed, a little white Donna Reed dress. And I had every intention of hiking the trails, wearing this dress just to be different. And Alton says to me, he goes, you know, you don't have to do anything you don't want to do. And I said, no, I don't mind if it gets right, right? If it helps. And he goes, no, really, great way to put it. And he's like, no, really, you don't have to do. And I said, it's he just don't wear the dress like heard, heard out and heard. It was it was really funny. I did not wear the dress. However, I did spend time away from camp away from away from the main area where I would sit, sing, talk. I took a book and I read out loud and I laughed and I cried and I sang and I hiked trails by myself to be as obvious as I could. And it was my very first day in Area X. I think it was we had been there maybe two hours. We had unpacked our gear and gone over safety rules. We had gone over our rules if if a collection happened to occur on that that particular operational week. And they're like, OK, here you go. Took me out to a location, hiked me out and said, hang out. Do your thing. And while I was sitting there taking a quiet moment, I heard my first Ohio how in your ass. It went on for eight to ten seconds and I was just frozen because I was like, am I hearing what I think I'm hearing? No, it was a distance away. But I was like, OK, that was cool. Yeah, my first day, my first hours in Area X and actually hurting the high. So, OK, moving moving forward at one point during the week, I had there was a terrible thunderstorm and it was. Lighting like crazy and there was it was it was really a dangerous type storm and the guys are all in a tent somewhere else on the on the property. Close by, but I was in a cabin by myself, basically. And one of the vehicles is parked next to the cabin. It's probably maybe three feet away from the window right right next to the cabin wall. So it's very, very close. And this is. I told this story enough times is no longer embarrassing. But at the time I wanted to die. I didn't want to tell anybody this, but it is kind of funny. I had run out of personal. So I had to hand wash a pair of underpants and the night that it was storming, I had this pair of underpants hanging in the window to dry. No to anyone who has never been. Nothing dries in the Wachita Mountains. It's too humid. It is more humid in the Wachita Mountains than it is in Central Florida. So here they are. It's storming like crazy. And I've got this pair of underwear hanging in the window right. The storm finally breaks. I can hear. Something it sounds. I can't tell if it's water dripping off the roof of the cabin. But it also sounds like a foot in. I'm like, don't you got big foot on the brain? Don't don't be that person. But I can. I couldn't tell it sounded like I could hear footsteps going around the cabin, the backside of the cabin. And I'm trying to decide whether to get up and look. It's pitch black. You don't see anything out there. This is 3.30 in the morning. And all of a sudden, now the vehicle that's parked next to the cabin is an SUV. All of a sudden something slams into the back of this SUV so hard that the roof rack rattles. The same way that you if you slam the back deck of the SUV really hard, it makes everything rattle. That's what it sounded like. It was so loud that one of the guys did get up and come out of the tent because they thought that gear was blowing around. At this point, though, the storm had slacked. So I heard them come out and go back in because I heard the the tent door zipper open and close. And the next morning I was like, what were you doing out in your vehicle that late at night? And he's like, I didn't. I wasn't in my vehicle at all. And I realized that if he had opened the back hatch, the light would have been in my face because the door was right outside my window. Something slammed into the back of his truck so hard that it caused the entire vehicle rattle. Now, I don't know what it was, but it was the same window where I had my underpants hanging out to dry, right? So that's what gave me the idea. What if we had an all-female team and I told them when I volunteered, this is a little out of order, I told them when I volunteered to go be the human, I would do it on one condition. Do not call me bait because bait is disposable. I would be considered an asset because an asset you will recover. And that's how the asset team name kind of came from. I'm like, okay, so what if we had an entire asset team and got to talking to some people at training camp the following year. And we kind of put together a team from that where we had a group of ladies who were willing to go and stay at the cabin and just be us and laugh and giggle and be loud. And we played movies one night and we did a campfire and we were camping, right? But we were also being very diligent with thermals and conducting overwatch while an away team or a reaction force, depending on who you talk to. But the away team of collectors was staying some distance outside of our camp. And they would come in very covertly and take positions and in an attempt to be in position if we were able to get the attention of the wood apes to attract them into camp. That proved to be quite successful, I do have to say. The activity that we had around camp was pretty exciting. That led to a number of encounters. We had a number of wood knocks, which are, you can account for a number of those that would occur about the same time in the evening. A number of vocalizations that were occurring right at dusk that were coming just over the ridge line that were very primate in nature. And the closest I could come to were sounds that hallowed monkeys would make. We also, sitting around the campfire one night, I was looking at about 60 yards away and I'm seeing to what looked like almost like embers in the hovering off the ground. And I'm going, that should not be there. And I'm looking at an eye shine. It estimated about eight feet off the ground. It was the first time I'd ever seen eye shine like that. And there were a number of incidents like that that occurred. But probably the most impactful were two incidents where one of our investigators on two different occasions was in a hide position and could hear what I was mentioning earlier, that asthmatic breathing, where he described it as, he said that the lung capacity was massive, hearing the air flowing in and out. He said, it's like, you could just hear the volumes of air moving and the length of time that it took for the air to go in and out of this animal's lungs. And it was close. He was able to go back and track how close the animal was to him. It was actually rather close. He was just a matter of just a few yards away where this animal had come down the ridge line. It is a 50, 50 degree angle, maybe 50 degree angle of the mountain, what, up behind the cabin. And these animals can move on this rocky surface silently. And they creep in and you do not know that they are there. But it had come down and with just a few feet of him on two different occasions and he could hear the thing breathing. One of the most dynamic though was one of our team members who was in position in his fight. And one of the animals he had, he had used to thermal and didn't see anything. And we think that it was light from the thermal as he pulled the thermal away that kind of lit, kind of lit him up. And something from up the mountain charged him, came running down the mountain and continued to jump, moving from side to side in several, several spots before it finally retreated. He came down the mountain visibly and this guy is as stoic as stoic comes. He is as level as they get. And we did a quick interview of his encounter, what happened, and then to kind of catch everything. And they went back up the mountain the next day where he was sitting. There was a small sapling that had been shredded. He didn't do it, but there's a sapling that had been shredded. And there were imprints of the ground, the scuff marks in the ground where they could see. He thought that the animal was jumping maybe five feet and the distance was much greater than that. It was significantly greater than that. I think it was somewhere between eight and ten feet that the animal was jumping, the spots that it was jumping. And in one location there were finger divots in the ground, in the soil, and he put his hand down. And his fingertips were just touching where the finger marks were going in. He couldn't reach where the finger marks were going to the ground, but it was all five. And it just, it wasn't deep enough to cast, but the imprint, the handprint was there. But it was, he's six, six foot one, he's a good sized guy. And his hand could not, his full hand could not reach as far as where the finger holes went in. So that was probably the most dynamic thing that happened. Hmm, one iced coffee. 99 cents, please. For real? No way. Hmm. Ah. What a deal. Your new morning groove. Ice coffee from McDonald's any size for just 99 cents till 11 am. Price and participation may vary, cannot be combined with any other offer. Ba da ba ba ba. Well, that's it for today. Thanks for watching. I hope you enjoyed this video. If you did, please like, share, and subscribe. And if you did, please leave a comment. And if you want to see more videos like this, please leave a comment. And if you want to see more videos like this, please leave a comment. And if you want to see more videos like this, please leave a comment. And if you want to see more videos like this, please leave a comment. And if you want to see more videos like this, please leave a comment. And if you want to see more videos like this, please leave a comment. Hmm. More nice coffee. 99 cents, please. For real? No way. Hmm. What a deal. Your new morning groove. Ice coffee from McDonald's any size for just 99 cents till 11 am. Price and participation may vary, cannot be combined with any other offer. Ba da ba ba ba. Um, to be bluff charged and come down that mountain and stop clean pants. I don't know how many people have done that. Um, we had rocks thrown at us. Uh, weird things happening. Like, um, I, I radioed to the guys and like, uh, were you guys, were you guys up in like midnight? And they're like, no, we were, we were out by nine, not by nine o'clock. I heard the only way I could describe it is orc laughter from like the orcs from like Lord of the Reapers. Oh yeah. It was like that. Sure. I heard orc laughter in the, like 12, 12, 30 at night. I'm like, what are the guys doing up this late? And they're a good distance away because I could hear it echoing. It was so loud. I could hear it echoing, but that's the best way I could describe it. Um, and then I heard a samurai speech that, that, that operational week as well where I thought it was somebody talking to me. And it turned out that it, it wasn't them talking in their sleep. It was them. Uh, there was something enunciating, but it wasn't the person that I thought it was. We, we had a number of things happen. Uh, the most for me personally, I think the, the, the, the, the, I don't want to call it scary, but I had gone to the latrine. The latrine is a short walk away from the cabin, maybe 25, 30 yards away from the cabin at seven o'clock in the morning. No one else is up. And this was after a very active night where there, there was quite a bit of, uh, we heard quite a bit of movement. We heard the stamp that was the night that I heard the samurai speech and seven o'clock in the morning. And, and I, I go down to latrine and hear nothing and open the latrine door, come out, lock the latrine door. And as I'm walking back toward the cabin to my right up the mountain, and this is only probably maybe it's maybe 30 feet away that the, the valley, the floor of, of this, um, where the site is where the, the cabin is located, the flat area, it's only like 20, 30 feet away and then the mountain goes straight up. There is something massive busting up the mountain and it cleared in four big huge pushes. Just one, two, three, four. It probably pushed up the height of about a three-story building. It just boom, boom, boom, boom, and it was gone. And the path that it cleared of brush was four feet wide, four, five feet wide. It was massive. The foliage there is so thick with green briar and other, and other brush. I couldn't see what was moving, but this animal was sitting at the base of the mountain 20, 25 feet away from me. And I'm going, okay, this just happened. Um, that is why you make sure that you are safety focused and you are carrying something to protect yourself with and you don't go anywhere along. People can do whatever they want, but for safety, don't go anywhere along. And I, shortly after that, I was very grateful that someone else was awake and moving around and again telling me about their encounter for the night, which was also quite exciting. So that was probably the most exciting thing that happened to me that particular week. But all of this is happening right in the same area. It's right behind the cabin and the location where we operate. It's in the same general area. The animals are coming in because it's part of their home range. And they are, I don't necessarily think that they are coming to see what we're up to. I think that we happen to be close to a resource that they find valuable. And while they're there, they're wanting to know what we're up to and they find us curious. So when we turn the lights off and maybe let the fire go out, they get curious, hey, where'd you go? And they'll start throwing rocks. That's where the thing. Um, yeah. Okay. Oh my goodness. So some really intense stuff is still happening to the organization, which is great to hear that there's still activity. Someone is probably need to follow up. So, and you can just, it can just be a short answer. The, so the undergarment that you hung up, did that disappear or was it still there the next day? That was still there. It was actually inside the cabin because I was there with the guys. I didn't want to, I told them, I said, you know, you guys don't bother me. So don't let me bother you. However, I was not going to hang it outside the cabin. It was, it was still inside the cab. Yeah. Yeah. So I went home with those. Yeah. I went home with those. Good. Good. Have there been times in the last five years where individuals have had actual sightings of a what ape in that area? Absolutely. Um, yes, absolutely. Uh, we have had the, since they, uh, since Mike wrote his book, there have been a number of incidents where people have had sightings. Um, there are, oh gosh, um, people who have seen, uh, full on bipedal apes walking across the trail in front of them. Uh, there have been sightings of, uh, uh, cinnamon colored ape, um, a sighting of one that is, yeah, color of that, like an old buck. Um, I, I saw what I believe to be an ape. It was a very brief sighting. It was quadrupedal. Uh, but it certainly was not a deer and it was not a bear. It didn't move or behave like that. And the back end of this animal was so broad that it doesn't fit the bacteria for anything else, but it was the color of an old buck. It's not really brown, not really tan, really, really dark tan somewhere in between. Uh, there have been, uh, sightings of, uh, smaller, not kind of a juvenile black, very, uh, usually the, the smaller ones are, are considered to be, usually they're, they're identified as being black than the smaller ones. Uh, last year, I believe it was that, and one of our investigators saw the animal was hanging from a tree limb and then dropped to the ground. And that one was, he described that one as being jet black. And then, kind of, you know, it took off. Uh, we've had a number of visuals in the last five years and in the last two or three years in particular, we have been, it appears that we haven't been as active because we haven't been, um, we haven't been as present in, uh, on social media. But we have still been very active. We're a volunteer organization and we need volunteers to be able to do these things, right? And, and if we don't have someone who's available to do those things, then, then the podcasts don't get done or the, the, um, the social media posts don't get done. But we do still have members who are dedicated and we do still have those sort of boots on the ground every single year. And as a result, we are having those encounters, which do include visuals. And that's been for the last three years, we've lost five years for sure, but definitely for the last three years, we've consistently had, uh, weeks where there've been a number of sites. Oh, that's fantastic. Do you feel like there've been any substantial photo or video evidence that's been captured through those visual encounters? Video evidence, not that we have seen, um, we had, we've had some thermal evidence that we are very carefully analyzing. We are not ready to release that thermal evidence yet. It is very compelling. That came from the asset team. It is compelling. It is disturbing if you, if you see it, uh, but it is, uh, as with anything, um, kind of a neat blot. If you look at it, you're going to, and different people look at it, people are going to tell you different things. Um, so we're still analyzing it to determine how, whether or not, you know, we're ready to, uh, to release that. We're very conservative. We don't want to put something out and say, this is what we think it is. Um, we're not going to put something out and say, yeah, this is 100% definitive. This is evidence of, uh, this is video, thermal video. We want to analyze it and we want to be conservative about it. Um, we did get, we do have a member who had some photographs through, it's through foliage. It's so difficult. Gosh, it's hard to describe. It is so difficult to get video or photographs because the Washington Mountains are so dense. Uh, people tell, we'll just get drones in there. How you can't fly them under the foliage is too thick and you can't see anything through the top of foliage because it's too thick. But it, they're worse than photographs that were taken that you can see. It, it looks, it's very compelling. It doesn't have the shape of a bear, but it does have a dark charcoal to black coat and it has the, it has the shape of an animal of a bipedal. So we, it compelling. Um, they're interesting. The photographs are interesting, but they're not, they're not to the point where we're going to put them out and say, hey, world, we have definitive evidence because they're not quite there. As I mentioned earlier, there are a lot of photographs that come out looking like a blob swatch. If it's not equal to or better than the Patterson Gimlin film, we really don't have anything that moves the needle. Sure. Um, you might not be able to answer this, but how can a thermal image be disturbing? Um, depending on who you ask and depending on what they see. When I looked at the thermal video, I put it up on my big screen TV. Um, it's, it's HD. What I saw was an animal that was creeping very slowly forward at a very, very controlled pace. And at one point you can see the animal's bottom lip drop down. I, let me rephrase that. In my interpretation, I see the animal's bottom lip open and I can see teeth and it looks like the, it looks like the animal's opening and closing its mouth two or three times. And then, and, and then it, it's kind of creeping forward this way and it moves its mouth and then it, it kind of drifts back into its previous position and then moves forward outside the range of the thermal behind some foliage. So it's disturbing at the clarity. You can see fingers. I can see fingers in the thermal and I could see the bottom lip, which was, I can't even do what the bottom lip was doing. It was long. The bottom lip dipped forward more than what humans can typically do. And in doing so, I could see teeth in the thermal and that was what I found disturbing. Yeah. And that was, that was what I saw in the thermal. What I saw, the clarity of that I found disturbing. So we're, we're not scared. Yeah. So you guys must have some really good equipment then. The individual who took that thermal had a nice high end thermal. That's some of the organization has some equipment. Individuals choose to bring in their own equipment. I go in with my own. This individual, I believe, was using his own equipment, which was higher end equipment as well. And his equipment was able to capture. And it was, it was again, everyone who looks at it has a slightly different interpretation and that's why the organization isn't willing to release it. Or, or say definitively what it was, my interpretation of what I saw, it looks to me as if there is an animal that is opening and closing its mouth. And I can see teeth. So yes, from, from thermal that he took, it's, he has, he has a nice equipment. Yes. That is, that is fantastic. Who knows, hopefully someday that might be released, but I totally get it. I know different organizations have things that they hold on to for years and that is, you know, that's their prerogative and that's all right. I know we're getting close to the end of our time today, but maybe time for, or one or two more questions. Have there been a time in the last five years where things have gone sideways or almost gone sideways, or has it been pretty well under control? I don't believe that there's been time to my knowledge or hasn't been times where things have gone sideways. There, there are, for example, when the individual is bluff charged, you could consider that going sideways. I think that anytime you're in the woods, anything could go sideways. You could have an individual fall and get injured or snake, but there, there are a number of things that could go wrong when you're in this environment. And medical help is three hours away by the time you get out because they're not going to come in for you. But to my, to my knowledge, we have not had anything where, where we've had either with the apes or, or not where we've had anything go sideways. The teams are generally so well disciplined and they are so cohesive that we've, we've been able to work through issues that have come up. We have had team members who have had to leave the, the area and go seek medical help. There's no time for managing multiple suppliers and no room for shipping delays. That's why Granger offers millions of products in fast dependable delivery so you can keep your facility stocked, safe and running smoothly. Call 1-800-GRANGER, click Granger.com or just stop by. Granger, for the ones who get it done. 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The organization has been very fortunate that we've been able to continue to conduct operations in a way that we've remained safe. Yeah, that's awesome. I mean, yeah, that could go totally different. In the last few years, what do you feel the closest an individual with organization has come to a wood ape in terms of like distance? The two that I mentioned where the one individual got bluff charged and the other individual had that animal sitting within just, I think it was within five yards of his location. Literally, the animal sat down within five yards of him and just sat down. I don't know if you heard that pain or not. The animal just sat down within about five yards of his location and he could hear breathing. That the animal knew he was there, had to have known he was there. I'm of the opinion that if you do all of the, you can wash your clothes and the non-smell, the dead downwind and you can douse yourself and dead downwind and you can put all of the stuff on you. So you smell like the outdoors. At the end of the day, we're human beings and we still sweat. And whatever you ate and toothpaste you use, you are going to smell like a human when you go in there. And I believe that the animals are going to smell you. I had, I was in a hide location and I was in a good hide location at 50 yards. The other team member who put me in that spot could not see me and he knew I was there. And I was on the edge of a ravine and at about 15 feet over my head, something approached the edge of the ravine. I could hear it when it walked up and I could hear it sniffing and growling as it was going, growling and sniffing the air. It could smell me, but it couldn't see me. That was fine. That was, that's a moment when you realize what you're going to do if you're in that situation. When you're in that situation, you realize what you're going to do. They know you're there. It doesn't matter what you do. I believe they know you're there and I believe that they knew that this investigator was sitting very close to him. The animal didn't care. He just sat there and then it moved on. So I technically, I believe that the animal that approached me was an ape and that animal would literally been about 15 feet away from me. The animal that approached the other team member would have been about five yards away from him, if that. And the animal that bluff charged the other team member was probably as close as that within three to five yards as well. So the animals, the animals that get close, they don't have a lot to be afraid of as long as they can maintain cover. They don't have a lot to be afraid of from us. But they do maintain, they do stay out of sight from us because I believe they know. If we can see them, they're very more danger. Because at the end of the day, I mean, you're looking at what you have estimated to be in there, I mean, much bigger than the size of like a mountain gorilla, correct? Absolutely. At least twice the size of a mountain gorilla. The ones that I have seen, the one that I saw when I was four had to be at least seven foot tall because it looked down on me. The animal that I saw, I've seen two in the green swamp and that one had to be at least seven foot tall, seven and a half. And they are broad. So the animal that I saw quadripedally, if that was one, that's 18 inches and that was one glute. The three foot wide back end, all right? And it was at least five feet off the ground. That's the rump. If the rump, the top of the rump was five feet off the ground and that animal stood up, then make the estimate of how tall that animal would have been. They're incredible. They're large. They're very large animals and they can move with incredible speed and agility and absolutely silently when they wish. And that is what astonishes me, that they can creep in so silently taking advantage of the wind or, I mean, I'll pre-anim, a predatory animus will do that. They'll take advantage of wind and other noise to move and then they'll wait. They're very patient. They'll just wait. So they're very smart. They're very, very smart. They're incredible. They are... There are a lot of animals that people will obsess over for various incendiary reasons. The reason that I obsess over this animal is because of the personal encounters that I've had, but also because they are just fascinating, their behaviors. We don't know what they mean when they vocalize. We don't know why they make... We don't even truly know how they're making sounds if they're knocking on trees. Are they really hitting trees with sticks? We may be looking at evidence that indicates that they chimpanzees, they've documented chimpanzees are collecting rocks by trees. And we have found evidence that appears that rocks have been collected by trees. Now, have the apes done that or have humans done that? We're looking into that. That is something that we've observed in Area X. So we don't have documentation as the apes are doing that, but we do have documentation that we do have evidence. We're looking at certain types of trees that have marks on them, scar marks on them that indicate that that may be the type of tree that where the knocks are coming from. We are looking at where those rocks are being collected and there is a correlation between the rocks being collected at these certain types of trees. Is that a one-off or a two-off or is there enough data there? We're looking into that. We don't know exactly, but we're looking into that. And that's the type of stuff that we're trying to collect data for. That's the type of science that we're trying to make sense of, that we're trying to apply and make sense of. It's a lot. This is all very exciting to hear that stuff like this is still happening. We're the organization and thank you so much for coming on, Tammy Grimes. Do you mind taking a few minutes and just sharing how people can keep up to date with NAWAC? Anything that you would want listeners to know about different things that they can look into or keep up to date with or even try to become a member of the NAWAC? Sure, absolutely. We are working on the podcast. We do have a team who is working on the podcast. It's not the frequency that it had been in the past, but we are working on the podcast. So keep tuned to the Apes Among Us podcast. That's available directly off of the NAWAC website, which is whataid.org. When you manage procurement for multiple facilities, every order matters. But when it's for a hospital system, they matter even more. Granger gets it and knows there's no time for managing multiple suppliers and no room for shipping delays. That's why Granger offers millions of products in fast, dependable delivery, so you can keep your facility stocked, safe, and running smoothly. Call 1-800-GRANGER, click Granger.com or just stop by. Granger, for the ones who get it done. When you manage procurement for multiple facilities, every order matters. But when it's for a hospital system, they matter even more. Granger is your trusted partner, offering the products you need, all in one place, from HVAC and plumbing supplies to lighting and more. And all delivered with plenty of time left on the clock, so your team always gets the win. Call 1-800-GRANGER, visit Granger.com or just stop by. Granger, for the ones who get it done. Call 1-800-GRANGER, visit Granger.com or just stop by. Granger, for the ones who get it done. You can access it there and I believe that you can pick it up on whatever podcast. And if you want to know more about it, you can check out the Granger website. And if you want to know more about it, you can check out the Granger website. And if you want to know more about it, you can check out the Granger website. And I believe that you can pick it up on whatever podcast application that you use. We are also working on getting our Facebook more current. So it's not quite there yet, but we are working on getting our Facebook account more active. So keep an eye on that. We are working on some other projects as well that we hope to have. They're not short term. These are more long term. We're working on another wash tall monograph, hoping to have something out. Assume that's going to be several months though. That's long term research that needs to be done based on the last five years of activity that we've had and kind of focusing more on behavioral, what we've seen animals doing behaviorally. And outside of those things, we're working on some other things to try and get more engagement with the community because we know that the work that we're doing is important. And we want the community at large to know more about what we're doing. We haven't been letting our little light shine. We really need to do a better job of letting our little light shine. If anyone is interested in becoming a member, it is same website, www.whatepe.org. You can follow the links on the website and go to the application, fill out an application there. Also, if anyone is interested in just supporting what we do, and if you don't necessarily want to be a member and be involved with the investigative process, but that you would like to participate in supporting our research, there's also a place there that you can fill out a form for their nation. And we would put that toward equipment. We would put that toward funding things like our initiative for EDNA research that we're going to be working on this coming operational year. So if you are interested in helping see this move to fruition, that would be a good way to support the organization. That is awesome. So listeners, I'll have links in the show notes about all that good stuff. Thank you again, Tammy, for coming on the show and a special thanks to the NAWAC for allowing myself to talk to yourself today and Rick a few episodes ago. I'm always happy to hear about what is going on and to talk to individuals within the organization. But thank you so much. That's been my pleasure. Thank you so much for having me. Have you ever heard all the accounts of big foot activity around Oak Ridge, Oregon? And you think to yourself, man, I would love to get out in those woods and experience it for myself. Well, guess what? This year you can. If this is interesting to you, stay tuned because it's pretty cool. Sasquatch Summer Fest is coming up July 10th through the 11th, 2026. It's going to be even better than the previous years. Reason number one, I'll be one of the speakers. It's going to be wild. I'll probably I'll say this. There may be stuff you haven't heard anywhere else because let's just say sometimes it's, well, you just got to be there. We'll leave it at that. More about looking for big foot in the Oak Ridge woods. Now check this out. You may know Jason Kenzie from his documentary series, Searching for Sasquatch. Well, this year you can not only go to the festival, but you can also sign up for a trek deep in the wild forest outside of Oak Ridge with Jason Kenzie to the big foot spots to look for big foot. There are only eight spots to sign up for this. And yes, this will also be filmed for the next chapter in his documentary series, which is Searching for Sasquatch. This is a once in a lifetime deal. It's just trust it's going to be a wild, wild experience. To get a ticket, head on over to SasquatchSummerFest.com and listeners can use the code BSP, like Bigfoot Society podcast in order to get a two day pass for the price of a one day pass. So thanks to Priscilla for giving me that code so that you guys can get a little help with the cost there. Appreciate that Priscilla. I hope to see you at the booth in Oak Ridge this year. We can talk about your encounter. I was able to talk to so many people last year and the year before it is an incredible time. You're not going to want to miss it and I'll see you there. Before we wrap this episode, I want to say something directly to a very specific group of listeners. If you're in the military, any branch or forces, and if you've seen something that no one can explain, or if you're a national park ranger or forestry worker who's been told to stay quiet, or if you're a pilot who's seen something strange down on the ground, or if you're with the FBI, a federal agency or working intelligence, and you stumbled upon something you're not allowed to talk about, and if you're a firefighter, paramedic, or search and rescue responder who's heard screams or found tracks that didn't make sense, if you're in the logging industry on a remote oil field or a trucker with government contracts and you've had something happen that you've never told a soul, and if you're a biologist, a wildlife specialist, or a field researcher under contract who has found evidence you're not allowed to report, if you're a pastor, a missionary, or someone on a spiritual retreat and you saw something that shook your faith, or if you work in the shadows, CIA, NSA, or anything with clearance, and you've seen what the public hasn't, then I want to talk to you. Even if it's anonymous, you can reach me at BigfootSociety at gmail.com. The world needs to hear what you've been forced to carry alone, and you're not alone. You've got the story, we've got the mic. See you in the woods. If you enjoyed this episode, please be sure to subscribe to the channel on YouTube, hit the bell so you don't miss the next episode, and share this with a friend who's into mysteries, monsters, or the unexplained. And if you're listening to us on Spotify or Apple Podcast, please follow the show there and leave us a five-star positive review because all that helps more people discover the show. And remember, if you or someone you know has had a Bigfoot sighting, please, I'd love to hear from you, so email me at BigfootSociety at gmail.com, and let's start the conversation. If you haven't gotten a chance yet, check out our membership community over at www.BigfootSocietyPodcast.com, and that's where you can hear tomorrow's episode today early and ad-free and members-only episodes every week. Also, it's a place to connect with other people that are into the Bigfoot subject as much as you are. Thanks again for following along with the Bigfoot Society. Until next time, keep your eyes open, trust your gut, and never stop asking what else might be out there and see you in the woods. When you manage procurement for multiple facilities, every order matters. But when it's for a hospital system, they matter even more. Granger gets it and knows there's no time for managing multiple suppliers and no room for shipping delays. That's why Granger offers millions of products in fast, dependable delivery, so you can keep your facility stocked safe and running smoothly. Call 1-800-GRANGER, click Granger.com, or just stop by. Granger, for the ones who get it done. If you work in university maintenance, Granger considers you an MVP. Because your playbook ensures your arena is always ready for tip-off, and Granger is your trusted partner. Offering the products you need, all in one place, from HVAC and plumbing supplies to lighting and more, is always a great way to get your equipment ready for the next season. And if you're a big fan of Granger, you can always get it done. Call 1-800-GRANGER, visit Granger.com, or just stop by. Granger, for the ones who get it done. If you work in university maintenance, Granger considers you an MVP. Because your playbook ensures your arena is always ready for tip-off, and Granger is your trusted partner. Offering the products you need, all in one place, from HVAC and plumbing supplies to lighting and more, is always a great way to get your equipment ready for tip-off, and Granger is your trusted partner. Offering the products you need, all in one place, from HVAC and plumbing supplies to lighting and more, is always a great way to get your equipment ready for tip-off, and Granger is your trusted partner. Offering the products you need, all in one place, from HVAC and plumbing supplies to lighting and more, is always a great way to get your equipment ready for tip-off, and all delivered with plenty of time left on the clock, so your team always gets the win. Call 1-800-GRANGER, visit Granger.com, or just stop by. Granger, for the ones who get it done. You know what I could really go for right now? Literally anything that comes in a McDonald's carton, wrapper, or bag, or just a bag, is always a great way to get your equipment ready for tip-off, and Granger is your trusted partner. You can get your equipment ready for tip-off, or just a bag, or just a bag, or just a bag, or just a bag, or just a bag, or just a bag, or just a bag, or just a bag, or just a bag, or just a bag, or a McDonald's cup. Yes, any of those items you do it. We've got your cravings covered. Now stop in for the flaky flay of fish, the crispy snack wrap, or a large fries for just $2.99. Limited time only, price and participation may vary, cannot be combined with any other offer. Ba-da-ba-ba-ba. Reggie, I just sold my car online. Let's go, Grandpa. Wait, you did? Yep, on Carvana. Just put in the license plate, answered a few questions, got an offer in minutes. Easier than setting up that new digital picture frame. You don't say. Yeah, they're even picking it up tomorrow. Talk about fast. Wow, way to go. So, about that picture frame. Ah, forget about it. Until Carvana makes one, I'm not interested.