This is an I Heart podcast. Guaranteed human. You're listening to the I Heart radio and Coast to Coast Day and Paranormal Podcast Network, where we offer you podcasts of the paranormal, supernatural and the unexplained. Get ready now for Beyond Contact with Captain Ron. Welcome to our podcast. Please be aware of the thoughts and opinions expressed by the host are their thoughts and opinions only and do not reflect those of I Heart media, I Heart radio, Coast to Coast AM, employees of Premier Networks or their sponsors and associates. We would like to encourage you to do your own research and discover the subject matter for yourself. Hey everyone, it's Captain Ron and each week on Beyond Contact, we'll explore the latest news and ufology, discuss some of the classic cases and bring you the latest information from the newest cases as we talk with the top experts. Welcome to Beyond Contact. I am Captain Ron and today we're speaking with Dr. Doug Bettner. Dr. Bettner is an aerospace systems analyst and UFO UAP researcher specializing in scientific evaluation. He's an expert in the field of scientific evaluation of unidentified aerial phenomenon. He serves on the board of the scientific coalition of UAP studies SCU where he conducts detailed case analysis and contributes to peer reviewed research aimed at distinguishing genuine anomalies from misidentified aerospace and astronomical objects. He is also the co-founder and chief technologist of CIDR.io, to improve UAP data quality through triangulation and geospatial analysis. Welcome, Dr. So nice to have you here. Oh, thank you. I'm very happy to be invited. You got quite the following. We're very happy how things are going, contacts going great. I want to ask you this. So you've been investigating this and looking at UAP and looking at aspects of the phenomenon for quite some time. And I was wondering, looking at all the data that you have over this time, have you moved one way or another? Like at this point, do you feel it's more likely that there's something off-world or alien about this? Or are you feeling the more I dig into this, the more none of this is real? It's most likely a terrestrial explanation. Well, I agree. A question. So, you know, the thing is, it's such a multifaceted problem. I mean, there's not just one angle on it. You know, if you start looking carefully, I mean, doing your own research and diving into the different kinds of craft that get reported and what I'll call the history reports going back. I mean, me personally, the reason I'm even interested in the subject is because, you know, my grandfather passed away before I was born. But apparently in 1947, a flap in Portland, Oregon, my mom and cousins and stuff say that my grandfather saw a UFO out in the field behind their house. And now, you know, the stories over the years have changed in terms of, I thought I remember hearing that he had actually seen aliens walking around it. But at a minimum, I mean, that's a documented case. I mean, you can go look it up in Michael Sord and Robert Powell's book. Now the thing that happened about three years later, my mom was only about three at that time, well, actually two at that time. She said about when she was five, she reported seeing a couple of UAPs. So you know, growing up with these stories, the family lore, if you will, got me interested in the subject. I mean, we're reading about it when I was a kid, but you know, then I started getting into science and physics and what have you and doing stuff for NASA. I mean, I was doing more, you know, what we could actually do ourselves, right? But now when I moved out here to Utah, I started getting interested in the Skinwalker Ranch and watching some of what they've got on video. I came to a conclusion, it's either a lie or it's the truth, right? And the only way I'm going to find out is research myself. And I've talked to a lot of people in the community. You know, I hear lots of great stories personally. I'm a physical evidence kind of guy. You know, I do a lot of the analysis on the videos and photographs. And I'm still waiting for a smoking gun. I'll keep crossing my fingers that I'll come across it. But I mean, based on the statistics that I read about and seen, you know, the vast majority of stuff is going to be prosaic objects. And unfortunately, what we're looking really for is that smoking gun or that two or three smoke guns. Don't say unfortunately, like if sure you would say the data is the data. It is what it is. If most of it has an explanation that way, then most of it does. I mean, that's where I live. Right dead center on this issue, man. I mean, I want to see what the data goes. I'm going to sit on the fence and I tell people I'm coming at it with an open mind. You know, give me your best. I'll be a research and look into it. What sort of evidence do you feel makes a case more credible versus one that's more likely a natural explanation or clearly misidentified or even disinformation? That's great. I would say, you know, for example, the Phoenix case, you know, the multiple lights and many witnesses, the more evidence you can get at photographic from different areas and stuff. You can accumulate all that, right? Those cases are wonderful. Anything again with physical evidence, things that we can analyze, things I can go poke. If I have another Roswell, which would be awesome. I mean, then you can start doing isotopic analysis on piece parts and stuff. You know, my good friend, Matthew Doggist is that kind of stuff. I mean, it's just that from a hard science or a physical science standpoint, that's what you need. You need that physical evidence to really start turning the vast majority of the scientific community. It seems like there's this real divide on this topic. Like in today's politics, for example, people have chosen their team and they stick to it no matter what. So as we saw recently, you know, you can show any two people the same video and they will see two different things depending on their affiliation. I feel like it's exactly the same in the UFO community. A UFO believer might see any light that's not immediately identified as an alien piloted UFO craft, but a nonbeliever will dismiss it no matter how convincing it is. This is why I'm always pushing for more scientific rigor and study on this topic to hopefully get closer to a mutual understanding of what's actually happening. What do you think prevents many people in the scientific community from taking on this topic even today? Oh boy, this statement is still alive and well. It really is. I hate to say it, but it is. I watch some of the, I would say, bigger names in the science community. They definitely have already weighed in on one side. You can sit there and watch their podcast, hold their name out of it, but you can tell there's a bias towards that opinion. That's not a true scientist. A true scientist will say, show me the evidence. I'll sit on the fence until the evidence can sway me one way or the other. I keep hoping that there is a crash retrieval program out there and at some day or some point there will be some kind of a disclosure. I would say independent scientists can come in, look at what it's there, do those types of analysis at the ice topic and come at it completely outside of the normal realm of that community and look at things and then publish a report. Yeah, this is what we found. Here's the materials that we've subtracted and extracted. What about this problem that we have that this might not be something that science can pinpoint or necessarily get the answer to? This is not something we can repeatedly test in a lab. Does that take away from the need to study it the best we can? Well, you got to remember scientists slow. I hate to say that, but it is beyond glacial. I would say worse than a come up with the best glacial example. The problem is you're right. We can't exactly stuff it into a lab and then start doing repeated experiments on it easily anyway. That's where you see lots of shows where they're trying to bring the lab out to it. Now, I will have my pet peeves about some of those shows. I don't know the equipment that they're using. I don't know that it hasn't been tampered with. Those kinds of things, when I come at it from, I will say, a skeptical scientist point of view. That's where you've had some of these people on your podcast, I'm sure. Where it would be wonderful if they actually had things that when I've developed some of the systems that I've developed for the Department of Defense, Department of War now, if we have things that we do to, I would say, lock down equipment to make sure it hasn't been tampered with. Tamper proof seals, there's rigor in terms of how the equipment is handled and done for what we call a qualification test. The government knows that what the contractor is providing has actually gone through all the rigor that you know that what they're providing is going to be what you're going to get. There's things like that that I would love to see brought to the table in this entire community. What do you think the strongest argument against the ET hypothesis would be in your view? A lack of physical evidence. I would say physical evidence that anybody can go look at or anybody can go analyze. Even the parts that are supposedly running around out there, I've seen one. It's got to have very carefully monitored, tracked associations. You need to know where it came from. I love Robert Powell's book and some of his work because I know he's got a case in terms of well, if somebody does have an implant, he's got a certain set of characteristics and ways that it should be extracted and then monitored, tagged, and tracked after that point. Gene Acustody, the whole thing, absolutely. Exactly. That's exactly what we do for stuff and we'll build it for department of defense. You've got to Gene Acustody. Take a break right there. We'll come right back and ask Dr. Bettner, what do you think about what may really be behind the UFO phenomenon? You're listening to Beyond Contact on the I Heart Radio and Coast to Coast, AM Paranormal Podcast Network. We are back on Beyond Contact. We're speaking with Dr. Bettner. Dr., when you and Ben look at a case, you guys take a serious deep dive into all of these, all sorts of data actually, from topography to geology to everything in between. I feel like technology is really a double-edged sword here. On one hand, we have all this data that we are now able to collect and have access to, such as you presented at contact when you researched that case with the girl who shot the video through the plane window, which you pretty much concluded was a balloon. You were able to access weather sites that gave you the wind speed and wind direction. You were able to access airline sites that gave you the flight path and the flight direction. You looked at solar sites that allowed you to calculate the time of day based on the shadows from where the plane was and would have been at that time. There's a lot of math here and we won't go down that hole, but on and on, it was fantastic. On the other hand, I have just read how over 20% of all YouTube shorts videos are now completely AI generated to farm clicks, which is only going to get worse. We have other technologies from Photoshop and editing software to create all this misinformation, outright hoaxes, as well as intentional disinformation. All of it muddies the waters. How do you combat these issues and do you think they will make this type of investigation all the more difficult? Well, that is a wonderful question. If you go look at a Sue Apps, a year and a half ago, I gave a talk on exactly that problem. I showed how easy it is. I pulled stuff off the internet to hoax UFOs. People love doing it. They get a kick out of it. That's bizarre. I don't even know where to start on that one, but the thing that we're trying to propose is, you know what, I need a chain of custody when it starts to come into what your camera captures. This goes back to the entire idea behind CIDR. It's coming off your camera. It's in an encrypted network. You submit it and it's being submitted with metadata. Where was your phone pointed? All that kind of great information that we need and we need to trust and rely on. If I'm not having to spend a good chunk of my time trying to authenticate what I'm looking at, that amount of time I'm spending analyzing your data versus trying to make sure you have it. Let's jump to that part, which is the important part. For example, the Agua Ducasse, I'm working within the SU analyzing that data. We got a nice chain of custody on that. They've done a lot of work, great upfront to show, yeah, that did in fact come off Border Patrol and Customs aircraft. It's like that chain of custody aspect. I don't have to worry about. I can invent tools. I can come up with new processes. I can throw new algorithms at stuff to where you're actually utilizing my best part of the me and my background in terms of what I can bring to the table in analyzing these kinds of cases. Are there any specific historical cases that you believe deserve renewed scientific investigation today? The way you guys broke down that case, the airline case, I'd love to see that done with all of these, Roswell and others. I realize this is a lot of time and a lot of money. You guys generously do this for free. Yeah, it's coming out of our retirement funds, I'll tell you. Yeah, there you go. The one that I keep going back to is that Phoenix case. It's like, where's the radar data? I know the government has the radar data. I know they've got it scrolled away somewhere. Where is all the videos? People had to have taken videos. They had to have taken it from different directions. There are cams out there that probably got scrolled away doorbell cameras and what have you, right? Come on. I'm going to go through and probably do a better job on that. Whether anybody's done or not, I haven't paid attention. But that's one case that keeps coming to mind. Man, I think if that happened today, 2026, wow, we would have a thousand different videos from every possible angle and you could really pin down what happened, right? Yep, very easily. Yep. If this does have a non-human component to it, doc, what do you think it's most likely? Do you think it's like an interdimensional traveler, a time traveler, aliens from another planet in our universe? Or do you think it could have something more to do with consciousness, perhaps? I will say that I'm going to start with consciousness and work my way backwards. I think there's a consciousness part of it. The only reason I say that is Barber's work and his disclosure there with some of those individuals that apparently can use their mind capabilities or mental powers or what have you to try and coax these things in. Those kinds of things, it's like, gosh, I'd love to be able to go out as an independent observer on that because I would put up triangulation cameras, really, and then just try and see how quickly something came in or how far away it was. You can do all that math. There's that aspect of it. Then you start going towards things that we really can't explain yet, like ghosts and what have you. Some people would figure into your imagination. You can believe that, but I know I've talked to a lot of people who said, no, yeah, barely. I've seen stuff pop off the wall and jump across the room. Well, great. That tells me we don't understand everything around us. Just that kind of a thing. If you've got a ghost, you've got something that is able to basically still be around. I'm going to say from a physics standpoint, quantum entanglement is probably your best bet for an explanation there. If we can quantum entangle, maybe you can use quantum entanglement for a gift from one end of the galaxy to the other end of the galaxy and nothing flat. There are potentially loopholes that will allow it. Alcubius work drive and other things. I would say the vast majority of scientists don't question whether or not there can be extraterrestrial life. We can look out there and as Carl Sygo would say, billions and billions, right? Billions and billions of galaxies and in those billions and billions of galaxies, billions and billions of stars. The math is with us that fundamentally, ET is out there. It's how it's been here. Yes, that is the billion dollar question, if you will. And even we have a lot of people who claim to have interacted with them. So there's that. What about Skywatcher? Have you heard about these guys who claim to have technology for that? What do you think of that? Well, that's what I was trying to do. Jay Barber, I think is trying to remember his name. Jay Barber. Yeah. So we actually met Jay at SCU this last year. He was there. Interesting. I thought I heard that they're closed down though, that they accomplished their work and they're now doing other stuff. I don't know. I don't have all the takes in it. But that's why I said I would love to be an independent observer on that kind of stuff. Could this even be potentially something that we don't even have the word for yet to describe properly? I think you summed it up best. The answer to this whole thing is what you said. It just shows you all of these things show you there's more to this world than we understand yet. We don't know everything. We are ants. We are ants in a grand universe and fundamentally our knowledge is very, very limited still. There's more people than others, but we won't go down that road right now, Doc. Let's keep this civil. What do you think about experience? What do you think that the experiencers get right that perhaps skeptics overlook? The personal experience, right? The entire reason I even am interested is because of my story with my grandfather and my mom. So it's like they were there. They can recant it like they were there. I rode with Officer Klein from the library there, the Mark Twain Library, over to the site where he believed he was. He got a member who was like two years ago and he's like, why are they here? I says, we don't know. I mean, fundamentally when I say we, we the collective we that you're talking to. Now in terms of if we've got crash retrieval programs and you got an area 51 location where they've got all these things and they're communicating with them on a daily basis. Maybe they know what's going on, but the grander disclosure aspect in terms of the general public does not. Absolutely. We need to take another break there, Doc. When we come back, we're going to ask you about your thoughts on people who claim to have been experiencers and if you think the government has actually recovered craft. You're listening to Beyond Contact on the I Heart Radio and Coast to Coast, AM Paranormal Podcast Network. We're back on Beyond Contact. We're speaking with Dr. Doug Bettner. Doc, what do you think of some of these witnesses? Like you mentioned, Officer Klein from the Connecticut case that you looked at. Some of these people seem to be very credible and make a very compelling case that what they're seeing is at the very least something extraordinary. You know, I'll tell you, Officer Klein, he saw something. I mean, it shocked him to the core. And if I see something off in the distance, that's not going to shock him to the core. If I've got something like 40 feet away, like he's saying, and like I told I world with the guy and he's just like, what the hell is going on? Right. And, you know, my family experience and I tried to talk to some of these people. But what I try to do is, you know, I'm trying to come at it from, again, an open mind, tell me what you saw. You know, and I'm trying to pull that emotion out of them when they're explaining it to me, because it's that emotion that I'm in. If I can feel it, I know they felt it. And I know they believe that they saw what they saw. And for us and Ben's team in particular, that's a key aspect. I mean, we try to protect those people and we talk to people and we don't disclose everybody's name unless they literally allow us to. And so there's an entire psychology, right? You need to trust me as a scientist that I'm going to try and help you understand what you witnessed. And I do like when these people come forward and they're like, and it backs up the video, they're like, look, it was me, I saw it. Here's the video that I took, you know, the girl on the plane. She's like, yep, this is me. I filmed this. I love that. I think that just adds another piece of credibility. And I love when it's a multiple witness case, then it's even more so. Right? Yeah. And we had a second witness on that aircraft. That's right. And we wanted to remain nameless. And so she is remaining nameless, but we had a second witness that was further up in the aircraft and saw something. Blown. Yeah. And they're one over your head there. As a matter of fact, it looks just like it. Yeah. Well, that's exactly what it was. That is it. What about these people who have made claims of having a direct alien encounter? I've talked to several of these and it's very compelling. They certainly believe it. What do you think? Wow. You know, some of those people, I would really love it if you could start somehow documenting it, right? Get a camera out there. Get, you know, figure out some way, maybe you have a camera at a distance or a couple of cameras at a distance or go to bed with a Fitbit on. They say that this has happened and they've been turned off. Right. I love it. I still love it. He has an iPhone. He took it to Apple and they said, oh, it's not working because it showed that you were 2000 feet above your house, the GPS. How about that? That's some interesting data for you. Exactly. That's the kind of physical data we'd like to get, but, you know, we'd like to get it in such a way that there's corroborating evidence, right? Sure. So there's that evidence aspect of it. Oh boy, the GPS stuff going on at Skinwalker Ranch. Boy, don't get me started there. You know, just the different aspects of the multiple witnesses and multiple data points, you know, two cameras, three cameras. The more we can get the corroborates data in one case is gold. It is literally gold. What do you think about the idea that the government has already recovered non-human physical craft and they've been backward engineering it for years? Do you think there's possibly any truth? I would say there, I would say it's not, it's zero. Oh, really? I would not put it at a heart percent, but it's not zero. I would say, I'm going to say it's everything I've talked to and, you know, I came from Aerospace Corporation and also did Eric Davis, right? You talked to Eric Davis and, oh boy, you know, if anybody convinces you in terms of his stream of consciousness and he tells it like he was there, right? He's not making it up. He says, this is what happened, right? Oh my gosh. Um, if you don't come away believing it after that, you, you, there's no hope. I'm just going to tell you. Okay. So if you think it's possible, why are they keeping it so clandestine? Uh, very simple. National security. The atomic bomb. Okay. What happened immediately after the atomic bomb went off? Okay. The flap that, you know, my grandfather was in was 1947, July 4th. Right around Roswell, by the way. Does that sound familiar? Oh yeah. Um, and then, you know, three years later, my mom saw something. Um, and so, you know, that was before we literally had the technologies that could do these kinds of things that you could mistake, you know, two things in the sky that go zip. That kind of stuff just did not exist at that point. Um, does it now? Yes. And that makes our job much harder from an analytical standpoint, but I would say if, if I was back then and we had just dropped the bomb and I knew Russia was trying to develop the bomb, oh heck yeah, I would have, I would have put a classification on it just like that. Why? Because we are in an arms race and that's, that's all there is to it. People. That makes complete sense to me. I honestly believe that. And, uh, I think that there's probably a good reason for it. And, you know, also maybe it's something that, that they really shouldn't let everybody know because they might not want to hear it. There's always that possibility. There, there is that. Yeah. Uh, what about the idea of disclosure? You know, what do you think it would or should look like if it does happen? Wow. That, you know, we could have a three or four podcasts just discussing that. Yes. Um, we set aside seven hours. Personally, I, you know, I have an opinion and I'm going to say it is my opinion. Um, I would come out, you know, this is what it is. Um, do enough, you know, so that people can say, yeah, but early, yeah, it's true. You got to do something to help with the religions and stuff. I mean, my frustration is I just, I've got a sneak in suspicion of the religions can turn to capitalize on it. And so that, that is one of my fears, but in particular with, uh, you know, the government and stuff, you know, they already got a lock on it, assuming that it does exist. Um, it's just a matter of what's the right way to do it to, um, I say minimize a strife, you know, a lot, allow people to understand, well, if it was classified for a reason, again, national security would be the reason. If there's technologies allow you to do stuff that these things can reportedly do. Oh yeah, you're going to classify it. If you can get it, um, until you know how to utilize it. Um, they say a world of problems. There's going to be one million questions if they so much as say that that's real. You know, you, you, you made my grandfather ruined his life and you know, he, he couldn't talk about this and you can imagine the problems. This would do, what do you think would be the worst repercussion from a formal disclosure disclosure again, my, my, my fears, the, the attempt at the religious trying to, you know, corner, you know, again, the brain, the brainwashing parts, you know, allow me to be independent, allow me to think like I want to thank you. Don't think this could have something to do with, you know, free energy and the, the global reliance on oil and these kinds of things that I'm not so convinced on that. I need, you know, power and control is my opinion. Sure. I understand. Is it possible that there are multiple different things happening? There's non-human intelligences or different separate phenomenon. I don't know why that's not very possible because there's, there's a lot of things we don't know. And a hundred years ago, there was a ton of things we don't know that we know now and take for granted. You can only imagine a thousand years from now, they're going to look back at them. How do they not understand these simple? Oh, yeah. I mean, you think you look back at, uh, Copernicus, right? Or, you know, pick your favorites and just in the past, you know, you start thinking about how they got to where they did. And what, you know, it's, you know, I think, uh, it was Newton that said, you know, I stand on the shoulders of giants. There was enough around him so we could make additional deductions. The same thing with us. I mean, we got to stand on the shoulders of giants. I did technologies that are coming out now or gosh, I wish 20 years ago, we would have the phones we do now. My Samsung Ultra 25. I mean, gosh, I can do fantastic stuff with it. It's basically a walking, talking sensor. Homies, different modes in it, right? And then now the ability to network those things. I mean, you know, that's what all CIDR is all about is let's take advantage of that. Let's let, you know, put the power in the people's hands to put it out there and then be able to analyze your work and have other people analyze it. But then no one came from a trusted source, right? Yep. I always think about these things. There's so many examples throughout history where because it's a new idea, everybody of course is resistant to it because it's not what they know. Imagine when they first came up with microscopic organisms. Oh, by the way, your body's covered with them and you have billions of them inside you. People are like, you're a crazy person. That's not true. And now a five year old knows that. Why couldn't that just be there's another vibrational world that we didn't know about that exists or whatever. And now everybody knows about it, you know? Yeah. Again, you know, it's like when you say that, I just, I always keep my mind goes back to Jay Stratton's story about it. Skinwalker Ranch where they saw that, that dark bean, he couldn't go beyond a certain place on the ranch and they just, they couldn't, they couldn't physically pass that. That tells me that maybe this stuff is all interconnected some way, somehow. Again, I'll go back to the physics I know and quantum entanglement is one aspect. Multidimensional theories of the universe. I mean, there's things like that that say, you know, maybe they're a tree. Certainly possible. When we come back, we're going to ask the doctor about his thoughts on the research that SCU does and also ask him about some of the anomalous video that he himself has caught on video at his place near Skinwalker Ranch. You're listening to Beyond Contact on the I Heart Radio and Coast to Coast, AM, here on our podcast network. We are back on Beyond Contact speaking with Dr. Doug Bettner. Dr, you are also on the board of SCU, which is an organization that I very much support. In fact, I hope to have them at contact again this year. What are your impressions of the work that's being done there? Do you feel that it meets the scientific standards that it needs to when we're investigating a case like this? You know, great question. As a board member, I do not speak for the board. Okay, I can be empowered to speak for the board, but I am not empowered to speak for the board. I can speak for myself. I would say the consensus that came back is, hey, we're still trying to get all of our investigational stuff put together. We're trying to pull the team together to do that. We're constantly being asked to review different approaches and documentation in terms of how we as an organization will investigate these cases. Code of conduct. I mean, code of conduct is very important for us. We just got through going through and it takes a while. That's why I said, you know, it's glacial sciences. So is pulling together the right approaches, the thoughtful approaches for when you send a team out, how do they conduct themselves? How do they gather evidence? How do they interview witnesses, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera, right? Now, fortunately, we got some really great, you know, former law enforcement officers that are supporting us with this. And so we're utilizing that. And, um, guy, it is a really good board and I'm very, very tickled pink to have been, you know, selected to get on it. So we're trying to do the right thing. Okay. And if you feel like that is a quality scientific work that they're doing, couldn't we take some of the reports that SCU comes with and give it to more scientists to take a look at and evaluate for themselves? Well, that's a good question. I think that's a good question. I think that's a good question. I think that's a good question. More scientists to take a look at and evaluate for themselves. Well, that's part of the science. That's what science is all about, right? It's published. Okay. It's like, I'm going to go to the Agri-D. They published what they had, they published the information they had, and then the analytical textings they used, you know, in years of past, you know, we're now 12 years past that report coming out, um, actually going on 13 now, um, we're taking another look at it. And, uh, you know, rightfully so, we've got a few cases out there where people said, well, this is that or the other thing. And so we're taking another look at the data, right? And, um, we are bringing additional techniques that we have now that they did not have then we're always getting new board members. Um, we just got contacted by a guy from Caltech, which is, you know, can't wait to hopefully get him on, uh, on the team. And so we've got, you know, all these great, I'd say people that are just donating their time, they're donating their experience, um, radar, um, I know, optical techniques, you know, we're trying to bring the full bear, but you know, unfortunately, you know, you get what you pay for right now. We, we work on people donating money. So, you know, put a pitch out there for money. If you really want the good science, you got to, you got to put the box. Absolutely. And they're, they're doing great stuff. Now, what about the thing that you yourself, you have a place that's right near the famous skinwalker ranch. And I understand you've caught a few anomalies on video. I've got, well, I should technically say two, um, one I looked at closely. The other one I didn't, um, just cause I didn't have the time, but all I'm going to do is call it a light anomaly. Okay. Um, I literally, I showed it to Jay Stratton and Jay Stratton goes, I think you caught in the work. So Jay, I'm not ready to go there yet. I said, I can, I can tell you what I can do with the video that I've got. And fortunately it's one of these game cameras and you don't have a lot of capability of the game camera, especially when it's a JPEG compressed video or images, both, right? Um, and it just happened to be a checking image. So these, these cameras will check in twice a day. Well, I should say once a day and once a night, uh, 12 hours apart, just, uh, as a kind of I'm alive type thing. Um, and then if there's any movement, they will capture things. So in a check in video, I had something, I would say a small little light, very bright, where there should not have been a light. And, um, the analysis I did is I have obviously a day image, right? So I can see exactly where it is. And then I have a night image from the night before. And so what I can do is I can do subtraction and I can say, I can show you right where it is on top of that. I can show you effects around it. That did not show up the night before. And so at that time, my neighbors, they had a gate that kind of swung out between my place and their place. And it was kind of swung out into my property. And you can see reflection off of that gate. In addition, there's a, I'm going to call it a pile of garbage that was behind the light source. And you can see reflection off that pile of garbage in the back. So I know it's somewhere in that gap, right? All right. But you look at the daytime video and there is nothing there. Wow. And I've got lots and lots of cases where I've got cars going up and down the road all the time. People were like, could it be reflection? I'm a reflection off of what? There's nothing there. And so that's why I call it a light anomaly. Am I going to call it an orb? No, because I got one image and it just, it would be an extreme lucky shot if I did. Now, I will say that I have another one. I was about a year later where it was along that same line of site, just a little further out kind of over the road. Um, but I couldn't really tell if it was over the road or on the, on the other side of the road for my property. So didn't spend a lot of time looking at that one. But I will tell you that whereas one time I was out there with my wife, cause we just go out there and it's almost like a camping trip for us. On top of that, we took a horse trail and converted it into something we'd sleep in. To make it cost effective. But the, uh, the thing we did is, um, I was, I was sick that night and, um, my wife was out walking the dogs and she said, she saw something off in our, our neighbor's field behind us, which is literally between, between us and skin walker. And she said, she saw something that was kind of down in the, in the grass. And she said, I was going to call you, but I knew you didn't feel good. And so I don't know what it was, but she said it was very light, bright. And when she saw the image, she goes, it looked like that. Oh, wow. So she saw something out there. So it sits in the gray basket for now, right? I, it's in the, I can't, I can't explain it. So I understand you've been looking at that fascinating case that we talked about earlier from officer twine, uh, client, excuse me, calling Connecticut. Uh, it's been two years now that you've been looking at that. How, how have you guys got any closer to an explanation of what could be happening out there? I would say we're still on the, we're still investigating. I've actually created a proposal to go out there. And the first part of it is what I call, let's get rid of all the potential posseics, right? And so, um, we've got a proposal for putting some, um, you know, location cameras around, um, with 24 seven, um, video. We actually have a camera out there now, but we need better sensors to where literally we can do frame by frame, differencing. A lot of these cameras don't do that, or it's going to be some kind of an IR triggered motion type thing. And so we literally have to build our own equipment. Um, we've been working with some individuals. I'll leave their name off of it, but that are trying to develop that. SCU has actually, um, got a project right now to also develop that kind of technology to where, um, what we can do is put it in multiple locations and get triangulation, right? Um, with the triangulation, we'll be able to say how far away it is. If we have very good timestamps, we can correlate that with air traffic. Uh, we want to, uh, incorporate other modalities. And when I use the word modality, that means, for example, radar, um, ready other kinds of radio, other than just radar aspects, for example, in for sound, there's a whole suite of different things we can do. And fundamentally right now it's prove it isn't prosaic. Um, IE move that way down on the list potential. And then we can then go, okay, what is it? Right. Right. I always feel like eliminate the, those things first, then we'll jump to this one. That's not unfortunately the name of the game. So all you scientists are always calling for more data. Tell us about this CIDR.io that you've come up with that, uh, how does that work and how can that get us closer to, to the answer? Well, the, the entire goal there, um, and so, uh, me and another guy are working on some stuff and unfortunately this isn't our day jobs. Um, it was our day jobs. We'd already have it out. Right. We're working on, uh, updates for it right now. It is literally an MVP. It just kind of goes, he shows you how, what your interaction would be and show you, um, stuff that you could do with it. What we want to do is we actually want to connect that to a backend database. And in that backend database automate a lot of the analysis that I personally do, right, but allow you to do it. And so you basically have the acts access to, you know, people like me, other, other experts, uh, SMEs in the optical analysis. And the thing is, if you, if we can get multiple phones, people's, uh, phones with, uh, you know, triangulated locations, unfortunately, what really to, to get it properly funded is we got to ask you for money for something, right? And so possibly the backend database aspect and being able to, um, to go in and do the analysis yourself or, or interface with, um, other individuals as a community would be the part that we'd, um, you know, try and get money for. Cause we've got to fund the next technology. You've got to fund the advancements in the algorithms and things of that nature. So that's, that's currently what's kind of going on behind the scenes. Nothing is, uh, imminent, but, um, once we get past that, once you start having a revenue stream, that's when the VCs are interested, right? You got to show that you can make money until that point. They don't want to talk to us. Thanks doc. I really appreciate it. Really fascinating stuff. Appreciate you taking the time. You can find Dr. Bittner at g i t h u b dot com back slash dr d o u g b. Or you can check out his UFO reporting site at CITER.io. You guys can find me on Twitter and Instagram at CITD underscore captain Ron. Stay connected by checking out contact in the desert.com. Stay open minded and rational as we explore the unknown right here on the I heart radio and coast to coast. A.M. Paranormal podcast net. Thanks for listening to the I heart radio and coast to coast. A.M. Paranormal podcast network. Make sure and check out all our shows on the I heart radio app or by going to I heart radio dot com.
