Grief on Film w. Alex Alexander

Hello, you. Welcome to You Are Good, a feelings podcast about movies today. And this is a format of an episode we've never done before, and we will probably never do again, but it felt right at the moment. We are talking about grief on film with Alex Alexander. Trust me, you don't have to have seen any of the movies we're about to talk about in order to be able to be a part of this conversation. In order to be able to get something out of this conversation, I'll have a series of content warnings to offer momentarily. But here we primarily talk about Lars von Trier's The Idiots. We talk about Kenneth Langeran's Manchester by the Sea, and we talk about Wes Anderson's The Darjeeling Limited. My audio in the intro specifically might seem a little off because, and you can't plan this sort of thing, I'm recording this introduction on my phone from Boston, because I am here unexpectedly for a funeral and series of memorial services for my friend Gabe Hirschfeld. So I'll talk a little bit more about that in the introduction, but first you should know that you are good at feelings podcasts about movies. It's exactly what it sounds like we talk about movies, not as film critics, but as people who watch them and try to better understand who and how we are in the world. Try to talk about what about ourselves we see in the movies and what about, you know, being humans around other people. What in the movie we see that resonates with that conundrum. That's what we're doing. Again, we're not film critics, we're not always here to talk about the role of the film in society. We're not here always to mention your favorite part of the movie. That's not what we're doing necessarily. That often we do. You know, we're here to talk about the movie, what feelings it evokes and why. Typically, I do a little intro about what these movies are in the introduction of the episode, but we're going to talk about what happens in the movies in the text of the episode. So again, we're talking about Lars Buntröhr's The Idiots. We are talking about Manchester by the Sea by Kenneth Longren, and we are talking about The Darjeeling Limited by Wes Anderson. These are movies, I think each come with their own series of understandable content warnings and stoked debate, some more than others. I'm looking at you Lars Buntröhr about sort of what is happening on screen and what that means and what is being said and what language is being used, etc. So I want to acknowledge that those are conversations that are being had that have been had. Specifically, we'll be talking about what in these movies resonated with our guest with Alex Alexander regarding how grief looks and looked and functioned and functions in Alex's life. And Alex Alexander is an artist and a filmmaker. Someone who I became friends with later in 2025, friends of ours were like, you two for sure need to know each other. They were all absolutely correct. And so here's the beginning of our content warnings and why Alex in particular is here. Alex's partner, a long-term partner, a few years back was murdered. And Alex's brother passed some years ago by way of suicide. So these are things that we were going to be talking about. And of course, we will be talking about grief. We're not really even getting into the debates around Lars Buntröhr's film that stemmed up kind of immediately upon its release. We're not even sort of getting into that. We are really just talking about on screen and then the text resonated and why. And so I bring that up because I think we're covering so much ground and trying to get deep in on some of it that, you know, if you listen to the show and you go, well, why didn't you talk about it? It's like, because what we are doing is using this to talk about a pretty specific series of things. Before I go any further, because this will be an intro that has some meat to it, I'm going to talk about Gabe Herscheld, who passed and the reason why I'm here in Boston right now. I want to let you know that you are good at feelings podcasts about movies as made possible with and by your support. You are the reason we can have an episode just about grief and know that we're able to do that. I know that when we talk about grief, we often hear from folks who are like, I love more of that sort of conversation in my life, or, you know, something comes up six months down the road for one of y'all. And you say, I knew exactly what episode to go back to, we're able to do that because of y'all because you support the show. And this is Indy Media, increasingly under attack, Indy Media is. And we appreciate you supporting us and all of your favorite Indy Media shows. It means the world to us. This is a, this is in large part how we make our living, or one of the parts of how we make our livings. And it means the world that this means so much to you that you participate in this way and contribute financially if you're able. You get bonus episodes and you also get extended cuts. And I think, I don't know, I think they're good, but you know, I'm biased. So I'm in Boston right now. Because the other, you know, a little over a week ago now, my partner, Carolyn Kendrick, gave me a call and said, you were supposed to go do something that was supposed to go see family that day. And, you know, she said, I'm going to be a little late. We're running errands. I'm going to be a little late. I've got some bad news. Gabe Hirschfeld is dead. And Gabe was a friend in a roommate of Carolyn's in extraordinarily legendary within specific communities. Music community, like Americana folk, old time, etc. House in Massachusetts called the Brighton House. It either hosted or housed or allowed to pass through or provided quarters for just incredible, incredible musicians over the literal decades. And it's still up and running. We were lucky enough to visit while we were here in town for the funeral and for the memorial and all that. And, you know, I've known and known of Gabe for over 10 years by way of the, you know, I talk about sometimes this music festival in Maine, the Ossaby Valley Music Festival that I provide farm to table food services for. It's part of my like vacation, although it's silly that it's my vacation because I work my ass off to do it. But it puts me in proximity with incredible and beautiful people in a wonderful community. So I've known Gabe from that. And it took us a while to get sort of on chit chat, ha ha terms, not because of him, but I think sometimes when I'm doing a lot of work in a concentrated time, I can be an ornery. But I always knew, you know, like all of my favorite people spoke highly and beautifully and favorably of Gabe. I've always known that he was special and he truly was. And over the past couple of years that, you know, that wall started to come down a little bit again on my part, I think I was becoming a bit more approachable in that specific arena. And, you know, he and I realized that we had love for canned fish in common, loved for briny things in common and love for terrible horror movies in common and talked about them and started texting about them and were in touch. He was just a sweet, sweet dude and clearly meant the world to many people that I love and many people I admire and maybe don't even know but love and admire. And, you know, he passed kind of unexpectedly, he was going through some health struggles, not just recently, but over the course of his life. And it seemed like things were getting better and passed again very unexpectedly. And, you know, when we heard, I just immediately knew like before the sentence was done that we were going to go to Boston and we were going to go be with our friends and we're going to go be with our community. It just was not even a question. Just like we are going to go there. And we did and I was a little cranky because I wanted a week off at the end of the year. I committed to having a week off and technically I have not been working but, you know, you're like going to a funeral is not always a, it's not a vacation, especially for someone who passed young and, you know, who you and your friends loved. And many people have written amazing tributes and eulogies etc. to Gabe because he was known and beloved by people of note like a Beliflack played at the funeral as did Noam Pekalny and just an incredible Tony Trishka and incredible look monster musicians in their respective arenas and said words on his behalf. You know, Billy Strings posted a tribute to him on Instagram and yeah, this is a, and then like the next day posted a picture of his hang with Eddie Vedder. So like this is like, you know, this is who this person was. I've been describing Gabe who was sort of like the, he was like a banjo wizard. You know, I've been describing him kind of as like, and this is not even necessarily an appropriate binary but it's just speaking in language that I know about like he, in so many ways, like he kind of reminds me of who Mitch Hedberg was within Gabe's own community, not obviously within a comedy community but it's also very funny in that arena but he reminds me of that not for the circumstances either to be clear but he was just like, you should not be dead. No one should die early but you are so special and so at the top of your game and so specific and so singular as our friend Sam Stambler said in the eulogy, he was not the greatest, he was the gavest and that's so true. That's so fucking true. So anyway, I just wanted especially in this episode to say, you know, goodnight Gabe, we love you, we got everyone together who could physically be in the same place and played tributes to you and everyone played music until the next morning and it was beautiful. I often go to memorials and I'm like, that was beautiful, you know, objectively that was beautiful but this one I was like, this is exactly the fucking party that you would have loved. Like we did you right. And you know, after it was all said and done, I turned to some friends, I was like, that was a good fucking hang and we kept doing it until it was very, very, very late. Carolyn walked around and told the people she loves, the things that she wanted them to know before it was too late and I just thought that that was so beautiful to watch and I hung with people and we talked about stories and we talked shit and we had a great time. You know, the rabbi said in the context of this episode is, you know, you will not get through the moment via living in grief alone, you will get through it via community as well. And I felt that in the biggest way and I was grateful for what Gabe did to bring people together and I'm grateful for whatever opportunities I have to live in and around that community and I'm grateful to live by a similar value. And you know, when I talk with someone like Alex and hear Alex a story and say, hey, would you mind sharing that with my community? Because I think it would mean the world to them. I'm grateful that I have that opportunity and we're cultivating that here. So anyway, this episode is dedicated to you, Gabe, and to everyone you love, everyone you loved. You know, Stambler, our friend, did an amazing job in his part of putting together an event and a celebration and a memorial and there were all sorts of people involved but Sam, I was the one I saw working sort of day and night on it and I just want to shout him out, shout my love out for him. And yeah, just know it was a good one. You would have loved it, buddy. And whatever you're up to or feeling or thinking about, dear, you are a good listener. Don't forget that you, my friend, are good. We love you, we appreciate you, and we are glad that you're here. All right, without further ado, I've rambled for so much. If I missed anything, I'm sorry. But I've talked a lot here. I've talked more than some people have an appetite for. I'll blame you. But let's get into it with Alex Alexander, my sweet friend who is here to talk with us about grief. And again, content warnings abound. If you're feeling particularly tender about this sort of thing, and this is not the episode for you right now, don't worry about it. We got other episodes. Come back to us when you're ready, if you're ready for this one. All right. Hello, Alex Alexander. Hello, Alex Steed. How are you doing today? Oh, I'm, I'm doing. How are you doing today? I too am doing. I feel like I've entered the vortex. You know, it's like Tuesday afternoon comes and then you black out until January 6th. When you're like, Oh, I'm broke. Yeah. What happened? I'm broken. My body hurts. Or January 12th, if you're Catholic and then you get another set of gifts. You can go. Yeah, that's, I mean, maybe I should sign up. I hear they're really trying to recruit new members that aren't absolute wackadoos. They really are. The Catholic church is working over time. Spotlight did some damage and they are trying to recruit the losses. Yeah, they're like, it's not just all JD vans. You can do it another way too. Actually, I, we had on the show, Mary Hulahan, who is a wonderful comedian and an old school, like far lefty Catholic activist. I love her so much. She just came by for dinner last night and it was so good to see her because I was like, Oh yeah, like, back, like, you know, people forget with all of the ways that the Catholic church has expressed itself and is expressing itself right now. People forget that there was this really fun contingent of people who are like, what would Jesus do? What would Jesus actually for real, for real? Turns out he doesn't like lots of dead kids. We should talk about that. Yeah. Anyway, I feel very lucky. I was raised Catholic, but like my dad was atheist and my mom was like a cool Catholic, like loved the gay kind of Catholic. So I really skirted a lot of, a lot of trauma in that regard. Thank God. I love it. So tell me before we dive in to our topics at hand. Yes. Who you are and what do you do? Hi, my name is Alex Alexander. I am a writer, a director and an actor among many other things. Primarily, I make things that can be consumed with your eyes. Excellent. That is how we do. And so this is interesting the way that this episode came together. Extremely iterative in the way that this happened. We have lots of friends in common. We have since become friends. And when we talked about talking on this show, we originally started talking about the idea of covering Lars Buncher's The Idiots, which we will absolutely talk about. And then, because we were going to talk about it, what evokes this movie in particular is talking about processing grief. And we'll talk about why that's a subject momentarily. And then in the back and forth about being like, what other movies were coming to mind? You sort of emphatically had brought up also The Darjeeling Limited, which is Wes Anderson's, I think, 2009 film about some brothers going through it and then going through it again while going through it. And then Manchester by the Sea, which the entire time this movie has been out, I thought was a whole other very dark movie. But this movie is dark in a different direction. Yes. Yes, I have made the claim that The Idiots by Lars Buncher is my favorite depiction of grief on screen. And to come to this with a little more confidence in my claim, I decided to watch a few other very popular grief movies. So Darjeeling Limited, Manchester by the Sea. I also watched Practical Magic, which has a strong throughline of grief. And I do stand by that this is my favorite depiction in part because of the surprise element. But we'll get there. We'll get there. Yes, it's a real classic, ventrilian, not switcheroo, I'd say, but certainly a like, oh, this thing is happening. Yeah. So before we get into, I just want to give a quick overview of what the other movies are. And then we'll talk about why we're talking about grief. And then we'll go forward. And the thing I'm so glad that you're here, obviously, I just love spending time with you generally, but I'm glad that you're here to talk about this because I think a thing that we have done well over the lifetime of the show is to talk about grief in ways that have been seemingly from what I hear from people helpful, often who are going through the same thing, or they'll send it to people who they know are kind of going through the same thing. So because I know it's, you know, I would say, I don't know what your experience is, but we'll talk about it. U.S. culture is pretty against the things that you have to have in place in order to talk frankly about grief. 100% agree. So you either have to go out of the country or to the North Shore of Massachusetts in order to figure out how to process accordingly. So, okay, Darjeeling Limited for people who haven't seen it. Yes. Again, it's a Wes Anderson film. It's about three brothers who go on a trip in India, right? They're in India, of course. And they go on a train ride. A number of things happen, including saving some kids that are in distress in the water. And unfortunately, one of the kids does not make it. And it's sort of watching them process this while also understanding that what has brought them out on this trip is the death of their father and the sort of overall fracturing and implosion of their family and everything that has happened along those lines. Manchester by the sea is about a janitor, like a building sort of a super who his brother dies after seemingly a very fast fight with a rare and aggressive illness. And he has to go back out to where he grew up. He is tasked with all of these movies are like, it's about one thing and then it turns out it's about another thing, right? Yeah. Which I suppose is actually the mission statement of grief, right? It's a true nature of grief. Absolutely. It is the mission statement of grief. So he goes back to go sort of take care of the business. Anyone has been one degree away from someone who's died and has the responsibility. You know that you are now kind of in charge of that person, Inc., like whatever the business is around them. And he has to go sort of take care of the private, the house, all that stuff. And in that process is now tasked with potentially taking on custody of his nephew, who he has to re-meet essentially, who he's known obviously his whole life, but he's been in a bit of a fugue state, meaning the KCF like character. Because we learn that his marriage to Michelle Williams fell apart after an accident overnight after a party that he had that led to their house burning down with their two daughters and they both die. Yeah. Brutal. This one is brutal because it's jaunty. You know, the whole time you're like, oh, they have this like pitter-patter back and forth. These two guys getting to know each other. This 38-year-old teenager and this teenager teenager. And you're like, oh, what's going to happen? And then it happens. To me, the brutality of Manchester by the sea is in the mundane moments that are captured so, so, so well. Like the story itself is obviously super brutal and like just horrendous. But the thing that makes it hit so hard, that makes the punches land so square, for me at least, was how absolutely accurate and like true to life, the capturing of grief and the experience of dealing with someone's logistics after they've passed and dealing like the moment when they have like the wake after the funeral and Casey Affleck's character is standing there and his friend is calling over to his wife and they kind of like shout over the wake back and forth at each other for what seems like a fucking eternity is so perfect. Like and the way the funeral, we see nothing about the funeral because it doesn't matter. We get like five seconds of like odd slow mo at the funeral and that is an accurate depiction of how one experiences a funeral of an immediate relative, you know. My people are from this area, like my entire family talks like this, like they're all from there. And that scene in which they're yelling at each other across the wake and then his friend is yelling to his wife to get clarification for stuff was, I think maybe the most accurate scene I've seen in all of cinematic history. Yep. And I think that I love that Darjeeling Limited and Manchester by the Sea are perfect like opposites of each other and like the like act like the lifelike depiction where Darjeeling Limited gets the emotional accuracy super, super tight. But Manchester by the Sea has this like that is the real human experience. That is the way it looks. That is the way it feels, you know, it's very I like that. Yeah, like I feel like all West Anderson movies are poems, you know, it's like it's not it's not like doing a Cassavetes, you know, running gun. This is like a documentary reality. It's like a poem about reality. It's like an impressionist painting. Yes, that's exactly right. It's like impression of painting versus a photo, you know, that's exactly right. That's exactly right. They both make you feel things but just different. And then before we get to the idiots, I'm curious if you'll tell us what your expertise in grief is. So in nine days, it'll be two years since my partner was murdered. And about seven years before that, my brother killed himself and about 18 months before that my boyfriend did as well. So my whole twenties have been that starting starting at 19, the last decade has been punctuated by the sudden and traumatic and violent loss of men in my life, as well as some living losses that I would consider to be dead to me in most like functional ways that are, you know, just as graphic. And I have spent the last two years turning my life right side up and learning how to be a human being again. And I have thankfully done a lot of healing and a lot of learning. But yeah, I have written eulogies and planned funerals from top to bottom one, too many times, three, too many times, I guess really. I feel like I'm at third one, university just crack open and they give you a certificate like a master's degree. I would think. Yeah, the third one wasn't particularly crazy. I had to move across the country. We weren't legally married. So I was kept out of all legal proceedings. It was like there was a traumatic component with his family and it was really, really like, you know, it was a murder. Like we didn't know what happened. It was a very scary and violent. Yeah, you would think that's why I'm kind of like every time a man gets close to me, I'm like, are you sure? Listen, just like a magical magic. I think the curse is broken, actually. I think I broke the curse and this next go around is going to be okay. Knock on wood. I will be somewhat jaunty about all of this because I am grief intimate myself in a lot of different ways, not at the same caliber, but I in a way that often we try to hold it as to hold it as slightly as possible because otherwise it'll be huge. I do want to say earnestly that I appreciate you talking about it here, because again, I know that and we'll talk about this, right? That when you deal with something that is massive, a lot of people who even want to be there for you are shut down in the face of how massive it is and are unable to show up in a way that then can lead to feeling abandoned, unheard, etc. And that's part of why, you know, one day can feel like a year and one year can feel like a day is like we're dealing with sort of this weird cycle of reality that comes from feeling like we're not seen in the face of what's happening. Yeah, absolutely. That's such a great way to put it. So the idiots. The idiots. What the fuck is the idiots? Let me set the stage for how I first saw the idiots. Our dear friend, SM Goldberger, called me up and was like, hey, Alex. And I was like, yeah, SM, what's up? And they were like, hey, Sean Baker, my friend is going to be hosting a special screening of the idiots at the idiots. And it's fully explicit. And we rarely get to see it. And it's on film and it's beautiful. And I was like, fuck, yeah, I'm in. No idea what I was walking into. I heard movie screening, friend, let's go. I am sad for one of the most insane, confusing rides. So the idiots starts with a woman in a fine dining establishment eating by herself unable to really afford anything. And then immediately we see these young adults who seem to be developed to be delayed or with significant like cognitive impairments. And they are making a scene and involving this woman. And as the film unfolds, we watch these fully functional, fully able bodied able brained adults live in a like, commune-esque style inside of this giant mansion that one of the people has access to through family member and take turns pretending to be severely, cognitively disabled. And we're learning just from a framing perspective. So people understand what references we make. They're in real time. And then we occasionally in like, this reference is going to date me so hard because I know 1000 reality shows have come out since. But in a like real world style, like, confet retro, respective confessional, like they're making a documentary about this commune. We hear the recollections of many of the commune members, but we never talk with our protagonist as a subject in present tense. Correct. What is her name? Karen. Karen. And the movie goes on and you start to think it's sort of about middle class malaise. It's about, you know, 28 to 32 when, or maybe even younger 20, sort of like 24 to 28, I guess, when the world doesn't make sense. And this is me at 24 core. I would have joined this. Fuck the system. Yes, absolutely. You're all fascists. Like, also they live in this beautiful idyllic, you know, Danish town, but they're all fascists. And, you know, they're trying to like get around like county ordinances and whatever and, you know, sticking it to the man. And some people, it feels like they're, it's really interesting how life comes for, I'd say three or four of the group, you know, the job and the family come for one of them. You know, the dad of one of the girls comes to get her reality just starts trying to come for each and they keep trying to fight it and trying to stay in this place where they find real happiness, you know, like each one of them says how much joy they have found in this and how it's let them be themselves, even though it's objectively an insane thing to do to go into public and pretend to be like severely disabled and be treated like you're severely disabled, but they find this joy in what they call their inner idiot and this freedom and like letting out their inner idiot. And they also suggest that they're making some statement about the fact that like everyone who goes about their lives unquestioned is themselves in the language of the film, the idiot. Like it is not these people who that they're emulating. Although I'm, you know, this movie had problems when it came out, like if this movie came out today, it would be like a nuclear bomb went up. But yeah, so their commentary on top of everything else is like that, you know, they're holding a mirror up to the system as it were. Right. Yeah. The thing that I find makes it so beautiful is can I can I give away the ending? Are we doing that? I think that that's the only way we can talk about it really. Yeah. So, so towards the end, everything's kind of falling apart. And the guy who is sort of credited with starting the group is sort of like, none of you are serious. Like if you really mean it, you'll go into the real world and you'll spaz at home, quote unquote, spaz, excuse my language, that is in the language of the film, that is what they call the act. You'll let out your inner idiot at home or at work or with your family or like wherever is most important, you'll be who you are here out there and prove that you mean it. And you know, some of them try and they like can't quite commit whatever. And then at the very end, Karen, our protagonist who has been very quiet. We learn relatively little about her throughout the film. She's very reluctant. She's actually like kind of against it. And certainly she's like, you guys are making fun of these people. Like it takes her such a long time. And she finally towards the end, lets out her inner idiot embodies this has her moments goes to the pool and is behaves in this way. And then she's like, I'll do it. I'll go home and I'll do it. She brings one girl with her and the movie ends with her walking home into a traditional Danish like Sunday breakfast situation, it seems. And we learned there that the day we encountered her was the day before her son's funeral. And she has been absent without leave since roughly 24 hours before her very young son's funeral hasn't contacted anyone called her husband twice in the film, we realize now, and then hung up was unable to speak with him. She starts quote, letting out her inner idiot. And you know, food is coming down out of her mouth. She's drooling. She's making some sounds. The husband gets up and smacks her. And the woman she's with is like, okay, Karen, like, please, like, this is enough, like, let's, like, let's just go. But she found relief from the excruciating new reality that she was in through this, you know, active absurdity. And to me, that is what I love so much about this depiction of grief is how how unreal your world becomes and how much you can slip into what I would call like a mildly psychotic, I call it like grief psychosis, like there are points in acute traumatic grief, where you really do just lose touch with reality, you really do just stop knowing what's up and what's down. And to find meaning and to find acceptance and to find love and to find community and to grip onto that with everything you have to the point of, you know, not going to the funeral for your own child is the most like heartbreaking and human thing to me. What exactly, I mean, obviously, the aesthetics and actions of what Karen ends up doing, maybe wasn't wasn't as self resonant, but that sort of foray into finding comfort in this group and finding comfort in like, in an extent, like some acceptance of the absurdity by actually inhabiting it. What about that resonated with you with regard to your own experience? Was it in the like finding community piece? Was it in the just like, you know, after reality is pulled out from under you sort of anything seems on the table? Like, what was it that hit you? I think it was how fucking ridiculous the whole situation was made so much sense. Like the only thing that can make it make so much sense is this like truly like world bending loss. And I think that so often we see, we just see grief depicted in these kind of like, I don't want to say literal ways, but these sort of like, yes, you're sad now. Yes, your emotions are unpredictable now. Yes, you're really difficult, you're lashing out or you're in this depressive episode. But I feel like we rarely see like, you're just fucking crazy. You're just fucking crazy now. Like nothing makes sense. Your decisions don't make sense. You're being ridiculous. Like you're being objectively ridiculous. And it is because of like, yeah, your reality just gets ripped out from under you. And you're in this like liminal space of like new reality isn't true yet. But old reality is also untrue. And so you're in this like, yeah, a liminal space of untruth, where you can't let it be true. It's too painful. It just isn't real. It's just not true. But you know, it's not not true. And you have to like, make it all equal zero. And in that time, until it does equal zero, until it all evens out, anything's on the table. You know, there are these instances in life that always happen, but sometimes the brain can't handle that it's about to happen, which is you have to become the person who can handle your circumstances today. Yeah. And you have not yet become that person. And it's probably going to take a while for that to happen. And sometimes if it's just like, I need to learn how to do my taxes, like your brain's not going to short out on that. Like you can probably figure that out unless you have like, just calculator or something. But it is, I have to learn how to be the person who is suddenly without this other person who's gone through the circumstances that led to that, who has experienced whatever sort of trauma, et cetera. I don't know that it is always, if not even often possible for your brain to accept what is coming next. Yeah. That's such a great way to phrase it. Like you have to become the person who can deal with that, but that doesn't happen the moment that the thing you're dealing with happens. You know, there is a, that is part of that, I think that liminal space, that timeline of like, yeah, you know what's so funny that makes me think of how many times, because like, you know, obviously the details of everything that happened get worse and worse and worse. And so many times I've like shared with people and they'll be like, damn dog, I would kill myself if that happened to me. And I'm always kind of like, first of all, don't say that, please. I don't need to hear that. That's not helpful. But I mean, me too, buddy, we're going to be really honest. I mean, mostly same. I was on, I was on baby, I was being babysat. They were going to be real scissors for a while. But too, it's sort of like, you don't know that. I also, the day before Michael was shot in the fucking face, if someone said, you know, this thing happened to me and detailed it for me, I'd be like, that's crazy. If that happened, I'd kill and here I am. Of course. You don't know what you can, it's kind of like when you're a little kid and you look at someone who's like waking up really early every day, even though, you know, you're like 14 or whatever, and your body is so tired and you like can't wake up for school. And you look at someone who gets up at like 5am every day and you're like, that's crazy. How do you do that? And then you realize that like, you just kind of do things in life. Like you really just kind of like, you just figure it out. You survive your first heartbreak. You do survive your losses, you know, hopefully you survive all sorts of things that you decide to survive. And it's just, it's really interesting the timeline and the, the, yeah, the becoming the person who survives it is fucking painful. It's really fucking painful, but you can. Well, it's like the same way that any of the times I have gone through bouts of either like suicidal ideation or, you know, let's not keep dangerous objects in the house times. You know, it's like, you know, ideally you, the person who's listening are blessed with that, not dealing with that, right? But if you are, what you often don't understand, and I always, you know, I always have, not just from an empathic standpoint, like, or from an ideological standpoint, just like strictly from an empathic standpoint, I always have the greatest sympathy and empathy for anyone who takes their own lives because you come to know that it's not just you going, I'm going to do it. Sometimes it is like, we know that like it's a 90 second window in which someone sort of becomes flooded. It is convenient or easier. They've thought about how to do it. And then it's done. And if they got to 91 seconds, they wouldn't have done it, right? And I kind of think that like grief operates in a very similar way where it's like a kind of autopilot that takes your agency sort of out of the picture in order to like, you know, help you get to the other side. And unfortunately on the suicidal ideation, that's a like flooding, you can't deal, etc. The grief is a flooding that takes over your rational self because if you stay your rational self, you're not going to make it. That 100% agree. 100% Yeah, it's one of those things where your reality is too painful. You cannot exist in this truth, because it hurts so much. I have to say one of like, I've been an athlete my whole life. I have been sick in different ways. I've broken many, I've had lots of physical ailments. And the most physically painful thing I have ever experienced is grief. The thing that put me on my ass and really brought me to my knees was, I've never felt something as much in my body as I have felt the grief. And it is one of those things where you're holding on for dear life because you have to like, you know, dissociate or become irrational or have these bouts of like, you know, mild psychosis, because it's too painful. Your reality is so uncomfortable. And then you know, I mean, that's where all sorts of substances come into play, you know, all sorts of numbing agents, whether it's external substances or behaviors that create internal experiences, you know, sex and other forms of like, you know, dissociative behaviors, escaping through whatever, you know, adrenaline seeking, cortisol seeking, like all of that to just numb it because it's too much to deal with until you become the person who can deal with it. Yeah, this is the reason why I, you know, I'd say that this is a rare occasion, but because our culture is sort of sort of like true crime obsessed, etc. This isn't a rare occasion where like, someone is suspected of doing something to someone in their family and we find out later that they're not right, that they didn't do whatever. But you have all these eyes on them like at the funeral, how did they act beforehand? How did they, that's not a way a person would act. I'm like, are you as everyone fucking out of their minds? Because when, when shit happens, I love that you think you're going to be rational and do all exactly the right things. That's the whole like, if I was on the plane 9-11, wouldn't it happen? All right, girly pop. Sure. Sure. I believe you believe it. Absolutely. I believe you believe it's my favorite. But yeah, it's like you lose your fucking mind. I mean, I, I, my father passed a number of years ago and I was the one who was charged with taking care of him when that all happened. And I ended up losing touch with my sister. It was going to happen no matter what, but I ended up losing touch with my sister. She decided that the reason why we're going to lose touch was I didn't contact her immediately. I contacted her two hours after he died. And it's because I went to the home that he was at and I basically sat with my father's corpse and I held his hand and then drove around and didn't look at the clock. And then suddenly it was two hours later, I called her and in her mind. Yeah. But that's how she's not processing. Do you know what I mean? Yeah. And on my end, it's like we're both having this dialogue with each other that is grief fueled and mine is in sort of like fugue state stuff and hers is in like avoidance stuff. And it's just wild how so much of our connection, our miscommunication, our communication, our camaraderie, our discordance or whatever is built on a backbone of grief. And again, it's a thing that we never publicly address. Yeah. You know, you can't, it's like increasingly it's now it's okay ish to say I'm grieving. Yeah. And maybe the company you work for will give you two and a half days off or if you're like us in the gig economy forever, like you can't even afford to take that time off. You'll get one extra packet of gummies from Crafty. Yeah, exactly. But no, it's such a terror. It is like it is such a new phenomenon to even be able to hint at going through it. I think a lot about cultures that have like really strict rules around grief, you know, like taking a year off or like, you know, you were black for a whole year, the Italian morning bands, the all of these things that feel very quote unquote antiquated, I feel like they're just very anti like community more than anything, because it is appropriate, in my opinion, to signal to the people around you that you are grieving because grief changes you. So I moved home to be near my sister had just moved home to the East Coast a few months before my partner passed. I happened to be back East with her and with him right around Thanksgiving when it happened. And I had just reconnected with my dad that summer. And God what timing I moved home and relied so heavily on my sister and my dad and one of my brothers. And I do not know what I would have done without them. The amount of support that I needed that first year is not something that I think without the sense of obligation and many of my friends, let me say many, many, many of my friends, but logistically, I was in very close proximity to my dad and my sister. And so they were very functionally supportive. They literally held my hand through so much. They moved me across the country. They would help me set up, they helped me unpack because I couldn't fucking look at the pots and pans that we had. They really supported me through that grief. And I feel like that is something that is missing from our general understanding of what it means to be in community with someone. And I feel like I got so lucky because I have a wonderful community here. And I kind of stepped into this community that my family already had. And they very much were welcoming of me and supportive of me. And there are so many people, especially queer people, especially, you know, who don't have that family, that be it biological or otherwise, and they only have their community or their chosen family who become, you know, their support systems. And I feel like it has really, like you said, we, especially in America, are just not taught how to be ready. We just aren't given the skills. We aren't taught what to expect. It's not something we talk about. It's not something we really deal with in media in a like, I feel like we deal with like the emotions of grief in media, but I don't feel like we deal with like, real life with grief and like normal life going back to quote unquote normal, you know, it's two months after and you kind of got to get, you know, you go back to your job and whatever. And it's like, how do you keep being in community with someone who is grieving after month three, four or five? Like when it's the anniversary, like, I feel like we are so undereducated and under expressed as a society in that way. Yeah. Well, and I think like also not to bring capitalism into this, but I think like also listen, we have to get back to work as soon as possible. So no grieving for a year. I mean, that's a huge thing, but also just the narrative that is constructed out of everything that is for sale is to separate you from feeling bad quote bad and to separate you from the concept of your own mortality. And so literally everything, every interaction, every transaction reifies this idea that you should not sit with discomfort, you should not sit with pain that should not be a thing you're confronted through. It is an in-app purchase away in order to make it go away. Or if you do this shit right, like if you adopt the correct skincare routine, you're probably not going to die. Like, and it's not about that, but it's about that. Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. It is. 100%. I couldn't agree more. Yeah. So we're not interfacing with it on a regular basis. All right. We're being sold solutions instead of our, you know, sitting with our fucking friends. Like truly, I couldn't agree more. So in the idiots, I'm curious about what you make of the dynamic where all of the members of the group who are being interviewed today and recalling their time, you know, on several occasions, they make reference to like Karen probably would have joined anything. Karen was had the disposition of a puppy dog. Like we're kind of, we're planting the reveal a little bit without ever really being able to give you what you're in store for in a classic one. Whoa. Side note. One time when I'm so sad this date, well, I'm not sad because life is great the way it is, but I'm sad this date didn't work out because a number of years ago I went on a date with a woman who was a creator of online videos and stuff. Like that's what you would have said then with the kind of videos that she was doing because like, I guess now we're all creators of online videos, but she was a creator of online videos and she worked for the onion and she made my favorite joke video of all time. And I didn't know this until we were on the date and she was like going through her resume and I found out that she made a video seven years prior. That was my favorite video of all time. And it was, it imagined a Danish tourism campaign directed by Lars von Trier. Oh my God. Oh my God. I'll send it to you after it is fantastic. But again, you don't see this reveal coming. It's Lars von Trier. You know something's coming. You know it's haunting. You don't know exactly what's going to happen. But all of this is to ask, what do you make of the fact that all of our other participants are ideologues or you know, there's the guy who's borrowing his house from his uncle or whatever like this. They're all in like decent positions. Like and for them, this is ideological and the challenge to go home and bring it home comes from the ideologues. And then in classic form, you know, which is like essentially to say like, that's fine that you go to a protest, but like go tell your Trump loving dad to go fuck himself. Like that's kind of like what we're doing in the situation. Yeah. But it is only Karen, it seems, that is going at this from like something that is like immediately happening in her life. I do think that it depicts the differentiation where it's ideological for it's like borderline conceptual exclusively, you know, for everyone else who has these like stable worlds to return to. But for Karen, this is the first taste of like belonging, the first taste of like happiness, like, you know, she talks about how she's like, I have no right to be this happy. You know, I shouldn't be here, that kind of thing. And I think that, you know, I think it just really does just illustrate the absurdity of the like first couple weeks, or like, you know, the first month where everything is absolutely insane. And it isn't ideological to her because I think she's like too in the thick of grief to have these like grandiose, like philosophies to live by or, you know, these comments on society, she's just letting her inhibitions go for a minute and behaving like letting her inner idiot out and behaving like someone with a cognitive disability because for her, this is finally freedom. And so I think it is real. It's real to her in a way where it's play pretend to everyone else. And it's an escape for everyone else in a way that it is ultimately an escape for her. And we know that as people who aren't actively grieving the loss of their child, but for her, it is real. It is really, really peace and freedom and happiness in a time of indescribable pain. I mean, I think like there have been times there's one time I ended up in San Francisco and I had a plan to move to San Francisco with a bunch of money in my pocket. And then when I was supposed to leave, I had no money in my pocket for a very specific like a transaction went wrong or something. And I ended up like at the airport talking to members of the church of John Coltrane, which I think we all accept as a cult. I'm like pretty sure it's a cult. And I was like really taking in what I was 19. I was like really taking in what they had to say. And then suddenly like something jumped out of my head and was like, this ain't it, dude, you got to get out of the situation. And it was like because I was like at such a crossroads of like random desperation that you're like, oh, like this is how people get like very well intended, extremely reasonable people. If you're caught at exactly the right time and the right place and it's a numbers game, like someone is probably going to get you to join their group. You're incredibly vulnerable. It's a great time for abusers to swoop in. It's a great time for cults to get you. Like it's a great time for religion. It's a great time for all of these like extreme lifestyle changes. Catfishing. Yeah, you know, like because yeah, you're super vulnerable. Your worldview, it's literal, like the definition of trauma. Your worldview is fundamentally different today, as opposed to yesterday. Like something happened in a split second that fundamentally at the base core level changed your understanding of the world. And so you're making sense of it all. You're like, you know, putting your house back together that just got, you know, just went through a fucking earthquake. And so it's the perfect time for someone to come in and be like, I can offer you stability. I can tell you the truth. Like, you know, yeah, you should probably make me a co-signer in your accounts for some reason. I could help you out. What about the other two films stand out to you? Like what do you think that they accomplish with regard to, you know, get close to or maybe even sort of swing and miss or whatever? Like what do you think that they get close to with regard to your experience? You know, they both deal with families. And first of all, I think Wes Anderson needs to call his fucking dad, probably. So you did you ever hear that kind of it's like this was from the, I think the audio commentary of the Royal Tenenbombs and Angelica Houston was like, Wes, am I playing your mother and like dawned on him that she was playing his mother? Kind of scary. How did he not know that? That's amazing. She was like, I think it was the first time that he realized that I was a student in person. That's crazy. How could he not know? So maybe he doesn't know these are about his dad. Pray to God he knows that man needs therapy. Lord have enough with the movies. Do some EMDR. Those suits aren't going to affect you. No more proud suits, Wes. I think what I love is I loved seeing the way we become our parents. Yeah. I loved seeing the way the brother who was the writer depicted the funeral and the car scene and all of that. And I think sort of like the way your memory changes. And I think it's very on the nose that Wes doesn't realize it's his mother and that writer was like, the names are just, this isn't real life. I love that because you know, when you lose someone like that, everything you do becomes about that. It really becomes your fucking personality for a little while. Like that is what you are experiencing no matter what you're doing. That is the core experience. And I liked that. It was really subtle, but I feel like that was present in the writing bit there. And I liked the, just the interplay of the brothers and how grief affects everyone a little differently. It really does and how they all lost their dad, but none of them are handling it the exact same way. I liked that. I also have or had three brothers and it was very painful to watch it for that reason. It was really beautiful, very beautiful. And what I loved so much about Manchester by the sea is that we always want people to be better than they are. And often they're really just not. And that's okay. But usually in movies, we get Fendi stories where people become different. And I actually really, really loved that he just couldn't do it. I loved it so much. I thought that was beautiful. And he's not a bad person and he's not demonized and he's not evil. But he just couldn't do it. You know, what's the law? And he's able to say it for the first time too. Yeah. He's like, I can't, I can't do it. I can't do it. And I love that so, so much. It was so diabolical when he said that shit and I just was sobbing. But I love that because you hope that when you experience these like things that seem to rearrange your molecules, you hope that you come out a better person. Yeah. And so often you're just you and that's okay. But we always want people to be better than they are. And we always want people to be stronger than they are. And I think him really doing his best and trying his best and just not being able to do it was the most like honest and beautiful thing about that movie. Yeah. He said, I just can't beat it. Oh my God. That was the life. It's so good. It also speaks to this thing where, you know, he was trying to find a solution that made sense for the two of them. Yeah. And then, you know, because of community, like we told the stuff that you're saying, like he's got the he's got the friends and who who one of their kids is going off to college so that they have a space and he worked on the boat. Yeah. Yeah. And because he very fortunately has that, well, really his brother had that and he has that now. He was trying to find a solution that worked for the two of them and then finally realizes that like no solution right now that is going to do both of those things is going to work for him. And in order to show up for the two of them, he needs to own that he can't show up right now. Yeah. Which is outstanding. Like you just don't see that shit in anything. Yeah. I thought it was a really the most unashamed and unpolished depiction for me. I liked the parts they glossed over, you know, I like not having the funeral. I liked them having to buy furniture and that being hard. That one hit for me. His brother explaining that the shit that he has in there doesn't count as furniture. So I moved across the country with a old antique wooden school desk again from SM and antique vanity stool from a Vegas casino that shut down and one framed painting and a bunch of like random useless shit like clothes. I didn't own a single piece of furniture and I had to completely build my life. And so that scene in particular was very funny to me and the number of times my dad or sister or friends would come over then to be like, so where do you sit? I sat on the stairs. I sit on my butt with my back against the radiator when it gets cold and I eat my dinner here. Like, you know, like for I bought a gigantic 11 person dining room table. And so I would sit at my gigantic 11 person dining room table with one singular chair and put up with it and I would smoke inside and drink at 8am. And that's what I was doing. I moved in. Nothing made any sense. That's what the furniture scene for me is. Maybe I was just like, that's so funny. Well, because speaking to what we were saying earlier, we're like, you are becoming a different person before you're able to acknowledge or even understand like what you're becoming and your brain is kind of playing a trick to allow you to do that. Yeah. Like you don't know what furniture that new person you are would buy. You don't even, and you can't remember who you were. So you don't remember what you like. Like literally, it nothing makes sense. So you're in limbo. Yeah. The other dynamic that I find interesting that I think both of these movies does in a way that we don't really see in the idiots because we learn about Karen's family dynamic at the very end is it speaks to these family dynamics. And I presume in Darjeeling that it is revealed that Owen Wilson, who I believe is the eldest brother maybe is the mother. Like he says exact things that she says when we finally meet her. He railroads people. He steamrolls people. Yeah. He's the kind of organizer. We assume that short's men is the child because of the role that he takes in sort of all of the dynamics, which is to stay out of the way of the fight. And I assume that Brody is the dad. Brody, it also reminds me of like, I mentioned him in passing earlier, but like so reminds me of like John Casavetes in face in affect and sort of like style. So he's like a very like old fashioned kind of New York dad. And there's this whole thing that happens when, especially when the matriarch or patriarch dies. And on top of all of the other shit, there's a new shifting in the power dynamic and the overall circle. So that's what these, these brothers who I maybe I'm assuming haven't physically fought in maybe a decade are now back into like sort of like wrestling to see what they've revert back to their childhood selves because they're kind of like reasserting what the order is over in Manchester by the sea. That same thing is happening where I assume we can assume that, you know, Coach Taylor from Friday Night Lights, who was the brother who died was the one who had the shit together on behalf of the family. And now it's fucking Casey Affleck. And you have to on top of all the other grief stuff, like learn how to be the new boss. It's insane. So I have a theory. First, I just want to bring it back and say that's what I actually love about the idiots is that what happened doesn't matter. The dynamics don't matter. It's just about grief in its pure form. Like it's not about the family. It's not about the loss. It's not about anything other than the actual grief. And I'm doing that is what is so interesting and differentiating about it. And second, I want to say on the note of all of this of like learning how to be in this new role and like when everything shifts, I have a bit of a theory that loss impacts you in three specific areas. And the combination of these experiences is what grief is, because I don't believe that grief is love with nowhere to go or love persevering. I actually think grief is a form of prolonged and complicated disappointment, where you expect one thing and then your reality is different. And you are unhappy because of those expectations. And I think it is just a very complicated version of that. And I think that those experiences, including that disappointment are the following. They are impacts on your spiritual health and well being your spiritual experience, your psychological and physiological like mammalian human experience and like social experience, your logistical adult or like I guess non adult, but human being who lives in the 21st century and has a life and is alive, your logistical real world experience. And so depending on the kind of loss and the relationship to the person, you know, you're impacted in different ways, obviously, if you are an adult who loses an adult sibling, your real logistical life probably will be relatively unimpacted. There are some logistics, you know, provided you aren't suddenly responsible for their children. But like if you have your own life and you aren't intertwined, then your logistical life will be changed, but not completely turned upside down. But your spiritual life, your like, the like soul of your person having been intertwined will assume with a healthy relationship for the sake of this example with your sibling, that is a deep, deep, deep bond that is irreplaceable and completely unique. And so the spiritual impacts of that will be massive. And then like the mammal that you are and the needs that you have and like the severing of that bond and of community and of safety, like there's impacts there. And so I think to me, grief is just the experiences in those three realms. And all of those ultimately being that sort of liminal space of disappointment, liminal space of like you said, becoming the person who can handle those things before you are that person, like being the person who's experiencing it before you're the person who can handle it. And sort of like the discomfort of that and of sort of like making all of that balance out. No, I love that. And I don't know the, what are the expressions that you said before that it's not love with no place to go? What is it? What was that? Yeah, like grief is love with nowhere to go or grief is love persevering. I don't like that. But I just agree because love is free. So love is free. Hear me out. So this is something that has kept my soul intact. No offense if you said it. I just want people to know. I know I don't like that. I'm not talking shit, but I totally agree. I don't believe in that. It's a really common. I understand why people think that because you have all this love inside of you and it hurts. And you're like, what the fuck? Why does my love feel bad? But it's because it's not that love hurts. Love is free. Love costs you nothing. Love is ever renewing. There is no limit. The more you give, the more there is, you can open up your chest and through it is an ever flowing channel of love from the universe. I believe that unequivocally, it is the attachment to either watching your love be received or your love being reciprocated that causes pain when it is no longer happening. I love my sister right now. In this moment, I love her. She has no idea. She's not actively receiving it. She's not giving it back to me, but I love her. And if she never spoke to me again, I'd be heartbroken, but I would always love her. The love that I have for her is not contingent on her loving me back. It's not contingent on her being able to experience my love. That love exists inside of me for free, forever. And if I needed her to feel it, if I needed her to give it back, then it would hurt if she went away. And it will hurt when she goes away for a variety of reasons, look at me wrong. But love is free. Grief is not love with nowhere to go. Grief is the disappointment that your reality is not what you want it to be. And it's the pain that you are experiencing something before you're the person who is ready to deal with them. I understand there may not be an answer to this question, but if you had a, you could time travel back two years and talk to yourself the day before you start to go through all of this. Like, I know that there's like, no, there's not a step, there's a step by step guide, but like, what would you tell that person is on the way and what would you say to assure them? Oh man, you know, I've actually never been asked that. I would say it's going to be so much worse than you think. And it's going to get so much better than you could have ever possibly imagined. Like it really will get better. And that's it, you just got to stick it out. There's really nothing else. There's nothing, because there's no amount of, there's nothing that could be helpful, you know, there's no amount of like, eat right, or, you know, I've been horribly depressed before and had all sorts of mental, like I know how to like, prepare myself, but there's no amount of like, preparation that will make it any easier. So I think I would just say, like, it's going to be the worst thing you've ever known. And it gets, it really, it created a lot of peace in my life. I feel like I have found a lot of peace and contentment, and almost like, transcendence that I think can only like, happen through pain. I wouldn't even know how to burn on by myself. I really think that I have a sense of contentment that was forged in the fire of unspeakable pain. It's so, I mean, it's funny you say that because we don't know each other well in a long time, but I love you so much. And I think part of that is that I always find when I'm dropped in someone's life or someone has dropped in my life, and I see them and I'm like, oh, this person was forged in the fire. That's like literally like what my take is. I'm like, they're my people. Like we're like, they get it. Yeah, I find like the people who are forged in the fire and can look back at themselves and go like, I was forged in the fire. Like those are, you know, you're gonna, it's gonna be difficult, but it will be okay at some point. And your definition of okay is going to change. Yes. Yes. Drink more water than you think you need. It's going to be worse than you could ever imagine. And it gets so good. Like I'm so in love. It's crazy. I'm in love. I'm happy. Like life is good. It was the worst thing I've ever experienced in my entire life, but I'm glad I stuck around. Yeah. Yeah. Same. I'm glad you did it. Yeah, you did it. We stuck it out. And at this point, I truly believe nothing can kill us. I'm so serious. I don't think anything can kill me until like nice, good old, old age, or I kill myself. Like those are the only ways I'm going out. You know what I mean? Do you ever look at pictures of yourself before any of these incidences? Cause you have a, you have a list and you just go, Oh, babe, look at you believing whatever it is you believe. Oh, that's so funny. Looking back at myself being like, you are fucking ready. Look at you. You're so smooth. Like you have no idea what's coming. Oh my God. Well, I, I feel like we have told a story. Do you feel like there's anything that is missing from this story? I don't think there's anything missing from this story. And I think the only thing that I want to say is if you're listening to this and you're grieving, you're not alone. It gets better. I can't tell you when or by how much, but I promise it does get better and the world goes right side up again. That's such an elegant ending that I'm going to fuck up by asking a follow up question. What about for people? I'm sure you experienced this where people said, you know, after the fact, I wanted to be there for you, but I didn't know how or I was even scared. I disengaged and didn't even know I disengaged or, you know, all of these things, which I have, I have much more grace for these days than I probably used to have. But yeah, I used to be like, you didn't send me a birthday card. I don't care about that. But like, those are things that I could get hung up with before. And now I'm like, the brain's a fucking weird thing. It's totally fine. Hearts are hard. Is there any input for someone who knows that their friend is going through it? They might not have anything reasonable to offer, but they still can illustrate that they are present? Yes. If things like coming over and cleaning for them, getting their laundry done, meal prepping for them, if those kinds of things are out of the question, and if you struggle with like deep intimate like, ooh, I actually can't have these heavy conversations, literally just, hey, thinking about you, hope you're having a good day. Hey, I know shit's still weird. I know it never gets 100% better. Glad you're still around. Any little text, any little, or if you like see them in person and you're like, Hey, I got you a, I was at the coffee shop. I got an extra muffin. I know shit's been really hard for you. Literally anything that fits into who you are as a person, if you're like a love functional person and you're like, I saw that your car needed its oil fixed and you did anything, a little post-it note, a text, like even just a little heart emoji, no amount of affection is, or like kindness or like attempt is wrong. And that being said, if it is hard for you and you go out on a limb and you try to be there for your friend and you're not met with kindness or appreciation, please have compassion for them that their brain is broken right now. Because they might not be nice about it. They really might not. You might fucking gather all your gumption and do something out of your comfort zone to be there for your friend. And it might just hit wrong. And please know you are still like, thank you like from the universe for putting kindness into it. And even if that specific person didn't receive it in the way you wanted to, have comfort and confidence knowing that you put kindness and goodness into the world. And that is ultimately like a net positive. Yeah. And sometimes it's just like, I'll be here when you're ready. Yeah. Yes. Yeah. Patience. Totally. This is a, I don't use this word lightly. This is a blessing to be able to talk about this with you and to go on this. If you want a weird triptych of movies to really upset whatever day you have, this is what I think we should, everybody should watch it on Thanksgiving family, maybe Mother's Day. If you guys want to watch on Thanksgiving two years ago or three years ago now for six 30 in the morning, this is how I opened my Thanksgiving titane. That was the way that I started. We have a family tradition of watching the worst family movies like super violent or like we watch like the worst family movies on Thanksgiving. That's beautiful. I really like, I like to get fucked up on Thanksgiving like emotionally. Get weird with it. Absolutely. Well, thank you so much for being here. Thanks for doing this. Thank you so much. You're such an angel and I really appreciate it. Oh my God. Same. All right, everybody. That is it for this week's episode of you are good at feelings podcast about movies. Thanks as always to Miranda Zickler, our producer and editor for making this episode happen, of course. Thanks to Alex Alexander for coming and gracing us with your presence. We love you, Alex. I'm so glad that you're here and so grateful that you shared all of this with us. Thanks to Fresh Lash for providing the beats that make our episode sound so sweet. Thank you. Gabe Herschel, we did you good. We'll keep doing you good. I'm going to keep you in my head and my heart. I thought a lot while at the service about like how to keep your legacy as a person who does not play the banjo, how to keep your legacy going and I've got some ideas. I'm excited. It's just about how to bring the gabeness forward. Very excited. Very grateful for you. Oh my gosh. I forgot to mention make sure to support Palo San Children's Relief Fund. Great way to start supporting materially. You're able to do so. Our friends in Palo San Ingoza. Okay. That's I think that's it for this week's episode of You Are Good at Failing Podcasts About Movies. Now, that's it. Thanks for supporting the show via Apple Podcasts and Patreon. We could not make it without you. We'll talk with you all next week. We're going to do a proper episode next week. This is not a format we're sticking to. It just felt right for the moment. Felt right for getting out of last year, getting into this one. All right. Take care of y'all. Bye.