Hi everyone, I'm Kai Dickens and I'm thrilled to welcome you to the Talk Tracks. In this series, we'll dive deeper into the revelations, challenges and unexpected truths from the telepathy tapes. The goal is to explore all the threads that weave together our understanding of reality. Science, spirituality, and yes, even unexplained things like psyabilities. If you haven't yet listened to the telepathy tapes, I encourage you to start there. It lays the foundation for everything we'll be exploring in this journey. We'll feature conversations with groundbreaking researchers, thinkers, non-speakers, and experiencers who illuminate the extraordinary connections that may defy explanation today, but won't for long. Until recently, I genuinely didn't realize how much my pillowcase was affecting my skin and hair. I always just kind of thought like frizz and sleep creases and waking up kind of puffy was just normal, like a liability of going to bed at night. 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That's B-L-I-S-S-Y dot com slash tapes and use code tapes to get an additional 30% off. Your skin and hair will thank you. In this episode, we're diving deep into questions around time. What is it? Is it linear? Is it all happening at once? During the first season of the telepathy tapes, I was shocked when I was told that time does not unfold in a straight line. And instead, it's best to think of it as spherical. And even now, I still don't totally know what that means. But we'll be exploring this all together. We'll be speaking with neuroscientist Dr. Julia Mossbridge and psychotherapist Dr. Mike Sapiro to unpack time and even time travel. What it means if it's possible and if it might be possible to even heal ourselves through it. The first time I collided into something similar to time travel or remote viewing through time was through an incredible story I heard from Maria, a teacher to many non-speakers that you met in season one of the telepathy tapes. I've had a couple of situations come up in the clinic recently that have made me really think about time travel and the potential for remote viewing at different times. She described the moment that Ryan, one of her non-speaking students, received information from a 13th century monk by remote viewing through time. I had a student who was working on a lesson with me about Benedictine art and he commented before we started. He said, it aphorizes the Catholic Church. So I said, I don't really know that word. I don't know if you misspelled or if it's a word I don't know. So I asked his mom who always sits in on the sessions if she minded looking up the word and she did. She commented that the word aphorize does mean to have an influence or an impact on something and that it was dropped from the vernacular in the 1600s. So it's not used anymore. And when I asked the student how he had gotten the information, he responded that he had thought shared with a magistrate from 1345. So that made me curious about can you thought share with both people that are in the physical realm or possibly those also in the spirit world? And I also wondered, can you actually go back in time to have these types of conversations? This story is so remarkable that I asked to hear it from another witness. This time, Ryan's mother, like many parents, she was in the room with Maria and Ryan during their spelling session. Ryan spelled out it, aphorizes the Catholics. And Maria and I were like, aphorize. So I googled it and it is indeed a word, but it says like its last known recording was in the 1600s or something like that. And Maria says, well, what does that mean? And Ryan spelled aphorizes tells us how the Benedictine art was so influential. And then when we said to Ryan, where did you hear this word? How did you know this word? And he said, I thought shared with the Catholic magistrate in 1345. What? How did he do it? Did he say? He thought shared, he said. So he thought shared with the Catholic magistrate, I guess in 1345. So maybe they're time traveling too. Gosh, it's so weird because this is like mediumship where they're thought sharing with someone who's gone or is it? Yeah, going back in time. I mean, I'm not even totally familiar with a magistrate. That's not a word I use every day. Teacher Maria was also on the Zoom call. It's like a judge or a lawyer. I heard him some googling and I googled the word to see if anything would come up. I literally had to be so specific and go down a rabbit hole to even find this word. So I'm pretty confident that he picked it up somewhere, whether it's a communal consciousness or whether he actually traveled back and was able to thought share with this person. And he spelled it two separate times. So it's not like it was a misspell. That was the one thing I'm like, what did he misspell? I'm like, is that a word? And he spelled it again and we're like, wow. What's the word again? What does it mean? Ephra-size, E-P-H-O-R-I-Z-E. Ephra-size. Ephra-size is an esoteric word that means having absolute control over something. So that's what he was saying is that by addicting art, Ephra-size is the Catholics. And it stopped being used in our language in the 16th century. Well, it hasn't been used since the 1600s for something like that. And then I went back to see if there were actually magistrates in 1345. And what I found was there were, but they were in Rome. Ryan wasn't the only student in Maria's classroom who spelled some interesting things about remote viewing through time. And in case you're new to this show and feeling a bit lost, remote viewing is when you gain information about a distant or unseen target using only your mind. And in the first TalkTrack's episode, Maria and her new classroom assistant Dan talked about how a student seemingly remote-feared their lunch by going back in time to see what they ate. We went to lunch that day and got out. And this student was able to let us know where we were, where we went. And he also shared what we both had for lunch. And the question I had for him was, well, how are you able to get that information? And he said he had remote viewed. And then my follow-up question to that was, well, if you remote viewed, how would you know when to remote view? You didn't know where we were or what time we went, to which he responded, I went back in time. And it's easy remote viewing when you go back in time. He has shared with me before that he could remote view. So I had asked him if he would prefer to remote view. The questions to him rather than me say it, would it be easier for him? To which he responded that remote viewing takes quite a bit of energy. If you've been listening to the stories on the telepathy tapes and the TalkTrack's, you've met many non-speakers who say they prefer to be asked questions via telepathy instead of with spoken language. So Maria asked her student if he would prefer to remote view academic questions instead of being asked them out loud. And this tracks with this reasoning. But the student made an important distinction. Though for this student telepathic communication is described as effortless and often preferred, he said remote viewing takes more energy and is more difficult. He wanted to keep it the way we were working with me presenting things out loud. So I'm curious if any scientist can help me understand what's happening and how this actually happened and what's the science behind it. Which brings us to Dr. Julian Mossbridge, a visionary scientist, author and expert in the science of consciousness and time perception. He's the chief science officer at the Applied Love Labs and a senior distinguished fellow at the Center for AI, Mind and Society at Florida Atlantic University. Julian's groundbreaking work explores the intersection of science, intuition and human potential, particularly focusing on precognition, knowing that something's going to happen before it does and the nature of time. I'm Dr. Julian Mossbridge. I am a cognitive neuroscientist. That's where my training was in. Also an experimental psychology. And I've really been focusing on exceptional experiences or what we call exceptional human performance. So what allows people to perform better than average in all sorts of areas? One of the ways that we started this episode was with this perplexing thing. I think it was one of the first times you, I think, had engaged with a non-speaker. And I always get nervous and excited the first time any new person is being let into, you know, like here's the door to meet this family or this parent or this teacher or whatever. You had an incredible experience, which to me was fascinating because it really made me wonder about time travel and what it is. Is this the aphorized thing? Yes. When people get freaked out with these kind of time displacement things or information that comes from somewhere or feels like it comes from somewhere else in time. When I say people get freaked out, I mean like Maria and Ryan's mom. I don't mean Ryan. I think Ryan is doing that all the time because I think non-speaking autistic people and non-speakers maybe generally because speech is so time packed of a tool. It's like absolutely based in time and helps organize things in time, moving forward in a line. When you don't have that as your reliable form of communication, your mind may actually open up to a much looser boundary to be able to explore information across time. That's so fascinating to me. And with that story, I mean, do you think he was just talking to someone like in a medium shipway or do you think that he was slipping through a timeline in some way, remote viewing over time? Because some of the non-speakers in Chicago have said they can do that. That's like an option. Yeah. Some of the non-speakers in Chicago talk about remote viewing over time. Remote viewing itself is usually thought of differently than they're using it. It's kind of this technical capacity that you use a paper and pen for whatever, but it's certainly within the scope of remote viewing to look at information across time in the past, in the future or across space somewhere distant from where you are. And so that seems reasonable. We know that I've been working on remote viewing for years by working on, I mean, not only learning how to do it myself and teaching it, but also more importantly, scientifically analyzing the results of remote viewing. And it's very clear that when people are feeling more loving, they seem to have more access to information over time. And so I did two studies about remote viewing, about future events. So you can't get the information until the future happens because the information's not there until the future happens. So we randomly select like a picture to show people so that people have to describe it before the picture is even selected. And people are statistically significantly better at that, at predicting the future accurately when they're feeling unconditional love. Now these non-speakers generally seem to be in a place, not all the time, but often, much more often than neurotypicals, in a place of unconditional love. This is a right hemisphere sort of self-transcendent kind of experience. And so I'm not surprised that they talk about remote viewing across time. They're very desperate, in fact, to talk about different timelines and to point out to you, Kai, specifically they've said like, talakai, we remote you in time, or talakai that we do time travel. Because their point of view is very different than ours when it comes to time. So this is by Naoki Higashira, a Japanese non-speaker from the book called The Reason I Jump. Because I have autism, I know all about time and I feel it myself. Believe me, this is scary stuff. We're anxious about what kind of condition we'll be in at a future point, and what problems we'll trigger. People who have effortless control over themselves and their bodies never really experience this fear. For us, one second is infinitely long, yet 24 hours can hurtle by in a flash. Time can only be fixed in our memories in the form of visual scenes. For this reason, there's not a lot of difference between one second and 24 hours. Exactly what the next moment has in store for us never stops being a big, big worry. He's talking about time and how it feels different to autistic people. And I think he's specifically speaking about right-hemispheric autistic people, non-speakers. So this makes sense to me because if you really have the level of apraxia that all of these students that I'm learning about have, you would not be able to plan for the future, frankly. And a big part of the brain is planning for the future. The brain is almost, there's this book called The Brain is a Time Machine by Dean Juan Amono. And it's this idea that the brain is all about predicting the future. And then when you have an error, you weren't able to predict the future. You say, okay, I was wrong. How could I correct that? Well, these students can never, they're always getting errors. They're always unable to predict the future because they can't control their bodies. And so their future is going to feel different no matter what. What does that mean? That means their whole sense of time feels different. Because now their past is going to feel different too because the future becomes the past. And so what we're seeing is that when your time works that way, you may have access to information that other people really would like to have, but don't have or could only get through going into trans states or going into remote viewing. But you have access to it all the time. And you may have access to different timelines where other things are happening. And it can be very hard to focus non-speakers on the here and now because what do you mean the here and now? How would I locate that? Yeah, that is fascinating. Okay, so given like so much of the research you've done, what do you think is the most compelling evidence that the mind can gather information from the future? So there's five decades of excellent evidence that the mind can gather information that's accurate about the future. It doesn't mean it's always right, but it does mean that you can show statistically that it's right. There's so much evidence already by 1995 that when Congress hired a statistician to look at some of the work of the intelligence community, the CIA and the DIA had done on precognition, the statisticians who were supposed to kind of find fault with it couldn't and ended up saying, well, the one thing we know is that precognition is real and it's statistically significant. And the two examples that I think are most replicable of this are something called pre-sentiment, which is physiological detection of what happens in the future. What does that mean? It means your body responding before something happens. That's important. So I think about this. The metaphor I use for a pre-sentiment is like if you put your finger in the faucet and the water's rushing around your finger and it goes down below your finger, you'll see there's a big hole, right? There's no water there because your finger's there. But above your finger, you'll notice there's a little bubble and that little bubble is like a little indicator. If time is going down the drain, it's a little indicator. There's something coming. There's something in the way. It's just like a little fold in the space-time fabric. And so you're picking up on this little fold with your body. And that's highly statistically significant and I've done a meta-analysis on that that then was replicated. And both of them showed that it's highly statistically significant that our bodies are preparing for future events that normally we would think of as not predictable. I really value things in life that are easy and effortless. And when it comes to getting dressed, I want to feel comfortable and also stylish with pieces that feel elevated and timeless. And quints makes getting dressed so much easier. The fabrics are elevated, the price is affordable and everything just works without overthinking it. 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It's kind of a rare thing after the age of 35 to find clothes that make you just feel awesome. Refresh your everyday with luxury you'll actually use. Head to quints.com slash tapes for free shipping on your order and 365 day returns, now available in Canada too. That's Q-U-I-N-C-E dot com slash tapes for free shipping and 365 day returns, quints.com slash tapes. The other one that's obviously extreme of the spectrum, that's something we're usually not conscious of but is happening anyway, is conscious precognitive remote viewing. So this is where you're consciously sitting down or maybe you're standing up, but you're consciously saying to yourself, I'm going to describe a future stimulus, I'm going to describe the answer to a future question, I'm going to find a missing person, whatever it is that you've been tasked with and no one knows what that information is, including the person who tasked you with it because otherwise why would they task you with it? And people are able to actually answer those questions. I have a team that answers those questions all the time for people. So not only is it operational, like we can use it to figure out answers to climate change for instance, some project I did with some atmospheric scientists, but also we can use it to understand the mind and study it scientifically. So I've done both of those with this precognitive remote viewing. And honestly, it's very similar to what I see these non-speakers doing in several ways, especially the focus on the right hemisphere, but also trying to learn how to tame that intense like fire hose of information that comes in and make it a little bit more linear and understandable with the left hemisphere. And I feel like the communication and regulation partner is the person who's trying to help them do that. And sometimes they try to help the communication and regulation partner do that, but I see that all the time. That's fascinating. Is it true or is there research around people having psciabilities, especially the telepathy clairvoyance, something that more unlocked if they've had a traumatic event? And why do you think that is? There's not been very many studies about that question. The intuition that most people have when working with people who have been through trauma, and I've certainly had this intuition myself, it's like an anecdotal sort of report or a feeling that they might be better. You might see more psciabilities among them. Certainly, I believe that one study was done by the Windbridge Research Center about mediumship and people who are mediums and that they tended to have greater than usual traumatic history. And then I know that Kirsten Cameron did a study at CIIS, California Institute of Integral Studies, showing that people who have been traumatized as children are more likely to have at least precognition. Now, that study is very interesting to me in particular because my interest in informational time travel, which is another name for precognition, which is this capacity to get information from places in time that aren't the now and usually the future. And my own experience as a child certainly brought me into trying to study that question. And also has helped trying to address the trauma I had as a child and that I see other people having using unconditional love has also brought me into trying to understand that question. So what is it about trauma that might open people up to different areas of time or getting information that is usually considered anomalous or different? I think it's that it's a coping strategy. It's almost like, why is it that non-speakers are telepathic? Well, if you can't speak, maybe you have to cope with communication in a different way. Given that human beings have this capacity of telepathy, why would you not use that? Well, similarly, if you come home every day after school to a household that's really disorganized, there may be abuse or maybe neglect, someone's drunk, someone's using drugs, maybe your spidey sense starts to kick in because it helps save your life. Meaning your consciousness would go somewhere else? That's dissociation, which is one solution. Another solution is you're on your way home on the school bus and you have this feeling, you know, I'm just going to do my homework outside today. And then when you go in the house, your parent has passed out on the couch and you're glad you didn't come in earlier because they were abusive. And so it's this necessity. I really think the human need for these skills are what brings them out. Having said that, it is very important to treat the trauma and to move forward with compassion when you discover someone who has had trauma who might have these skills. Guess what? If they do that, they don't lose the skill. You don't lose the skill. So in fact, unconditional love is a better, more sustainable way to get to psych capacities than trauma. And you referenced your own trauma and your own abilities. Do you feel comfortable saying what happened? Yeah. So when I was a kid, my father had severe obsessive compulsive disorder and he thought there was something wrong with his mouth. So he would floss his teeth for a long period of time, but he also thought there was something wrong with my mouth and also my sister's mouth. And so at night from the ages of about three till 10, for 45 minutes to an hour each, he would floss our teeth. And I know that my timing is correct because he actually recorded it on audio tapes and I found one of the audio tapes and it hadn't ended by the end of a 90 minute audio tape. So here's the thing. I had this experience of this woman in her 50s with brown hair sitting on a rocking chair to the right of the bed. And there was a little rocking chair there, but not the kind of visualized. And she was rocking and she was saying things to me like, you know what? This sucks. It's okay to be angry. Like this is not okay, but I want you to know you're going to thrive. So you're going to get through this and you're going to thrive. And she would say that over and over again and it was really comforting. When I was in therapy in my 40s and started talking about that this had happened, my therapist had me do time travel therapy, basically go back to the time when my father was flossing my teeth and out of control and say kind things to myself. And that's when I realized that was that person. So when you were doing time travel therapy, maybe you would imagine yourself in the chair saying to the younger self, this is hard, but you're going to thrive one day. And then you realized the person in the chair was you in the future doing the therapy. Yes. And I don't know if that was a memory that evolved from the therapy, the memory of myself as a child experiencing that, or if that was a real memory I had as a child. Because by then I didn't care. It was so effective. It doesn't matter. It felt like a beautiful time loop. And I don't care whether it was real in the sense of did I actually see my future self or whether it was a false memory because the actual experience was so healing. That experience did lead me to start trying to understand informational time travel, mental time travel and physical time travel, all of those things because you can't have an experience like that without starting to ask those questions. Someone Dr. Mossbridge has been working closely with on exactly how time can be used as a healing tool in psychologist Dr. Mike Sapiro. I'm Dr. Michael Riosian Sapiro. I'm a clinical psychologist, a psychedelic psychotherapist, an ordained Zen Buddhist monk, an author and meditation teacher. And I'm also a fellow at the Institute of Noetic Sciences where they study a variety of human capabilities through the lens of science. Dr. Sapiro has recently been profiled by The New York Times for the amazing work he's doing with veterans through ketamine therapy. It's worth checking out as the results from the studies are profound. But today we're focusing on his therapy model regarding time. Somewhere about 15 years ago I started working at the Institute of Noetic Sciences and I was under the mentorship of Cassandra Viten and I was learning what consciousness is from the scientific lens, from the lens of neuroscience and then philosophy. And then I met Julia Mossbridge who was also a fellow at the Institute of Noetic Sciences studying time travel in her own way. And what I was doing clinically, she was doing scientifically. She was looking at how do we transcend the present moment? How do we grow beyond this moment? The moment also includes the past and the present and the future. She wants to study that through scientific lens. I want to help people have access to the parts of themselves in the past that need tending and nurturance, compassion, unconditional love, hope, the parts of us that were deeply wounded and left alone and felt isolated. I wanted to bring my clients back in time to bring their present self which had more wisdom and ability than their old self, their younger self. And so I started developing these protocols in session just kind of spontaneously using meditation experiences and bringing people backward to their most vulnerable places, whether they were in the trauma being tortured in some cases or in a combat zone or on a terrible call if they're first responders and bringing love, tenderness, compassion in almost an altered state of consciousness. So we can just simply think about our past or we can actually in some way dissolve back into it and be there with that person suffering. And I found it had a tremendous effect on their present day health outcomes, their present day ability to tolerate distress and discomfort here in the moment. But it also gave them a sense of like, oh, I have been through so much and I'm stronger than I ever thought. And then I started with some colleagues, Cassandra and Julia, working toward the future, also including what would happen if we had relationships with our future self. Many of us feel stuck in our life now, because we're moving through the world with old habits and programs and patterns that are dictating our present, which will dictate our future unless some event happens that disturbs our programming. But we can disturb our programming and we can go toward a future that was unimaginable. So I'm helping people untether from what's imaginable and start building the capacity to imagine what was previously not imaginable. Because you want a future that's wide open and vast to create with rather than just be locked into old habits that kind of perpetuate themselves. So I'm doing both of those things in my work backward and forward. The therapy Julia did that made her realize she was the older woman in the room with her at night, comforting herself as a child is exactly the kind of work Dr. Shapiro does. That's how Julie and I met was by me sharing this story that I'll share with you have a client that I have permission to share at an IONS fellow meeting and her hearing that in the light bulbs going off for her going, oh man, this is this happened to me too. And then we started joining teams together. And I'm sorry if this triggers anybody listening, I'll keep some of the details out. I had a client who was tortured as a child traumatized very badly, kept in the closet for days at a time. And she would have somebody visit her that brought her great comfort. We had done this time travel meditation. And I brought her back to those moments. And she herself acted as this older, compassionate, ethereal, and she woke up from that meditation in tears going, that was me doing that for myself. I was the one who came back and provided the care I needed. I didn't know that because she never knew who showed up in her closet with her until we had done that meditation. It gives me chills to talk about it now. And I know this is not the only time this has happened in my work with others. I too have experienced this. The more we do time travel this way, the more we realize how our own presence is the thing we've been waiting for. Our own presence is the healing presence we've always been waiting for. So space and time expand and contract and really in any non dual spiritual tradition for those listening, you can look up non duality. The time really doesn't exist the way we imagine or think or have constructed it to exist. And so in any true altered state of consciousness, whether it's facilitated by medicine, like psychedelics, or deep meditative experiences, or trance, or dancing, or drumming, when you're really deep into the experience itself, time disappears, it slows down, it may speed up. It's a very relative to the person having the experience. And so someone on ketamine, they might go, we did an hour long session, they're like, Doc, it was five minutes. When you're in altered states of consciousness, time expands and contracts and doesn't even exist half the time. Anyway, I do something called time bending. There's ways of expanding, slowing down time. So you can get so much more in your life by slowing time down. And I don't mean get more done, you're more productive. I mean, you live a much richer full life because your senses are wide open. You're smelling things, you're hearing things that you're honestly missing in our life, because we're rushing or we're on our phones or we're just thinking about the bills, we're not actually slowing down to smell the roses. So when you start practicing this way of time bending, life becomes much richer because your senses are much more aligned, taking in a lot more information. I've heard temporally, people say time doesn't exist. They are timeless. When we travel back to the past and to greet our younger versions, we're present in the moment of the time we went back. And time in this reality where we're sitting doesn't exist. People don't know how long we're doing this meditation for. They don't know how long they're out for because they're completely invested in the experience. And that's true for any altered state, whether it's meditation or drumming or psychedelics, you're so invested in the present moment where in my experience, all of life exists from every point of time. Our past exists in us right now. Our parents' past exists in us. Our grandparents, through their DNA, through our parents, through us here right now, we have our ancestors with us now. We're actually still reacting to our ancestors' experiences, through epigenetics, and what Julie and I have been talking about, we also have access to the future. So as we're doing this time kind of traveling, this future making in this past work, we really have what we call long body, where we're connected to the ancestors and we're connected to future generations. We took that from an Iroquois concept of the long body of time that expands beyond the present moment and beyond our life. So we're doing all of this while we're going into these altered states of consciousness working in different time periods. We're here in the present moment accessing history and future. Well, thank you so much, Dr. Shapiro. That was fascinating. If you're interested in learning more about the Time Therapy Project Dr. Mossbridge and Dr. Shapiro discussed, head to timemachine.love. On the website is a clinically validated, self-guided approach to healing with time travel therapy. That's it for this episode of The Talk Tracks, but new episodes will be released every Wednesday, so stay tuned as we work to unravel all the threads, even the veiled ones, that knit together our reality. And please remember to stay kind, stay curious, and that being a true skeptic requires an open mind. Thank you to my amazing collaborators, producers Catherine Ellis and Selena Kennedy, technical directing, audio mix and finishing by Jeremy Cole, opening and closing music by Elizabeth P.W., and original logo and cover art by Ben Kondora Design. I'm Kai Dickens, your executive producer, writer and host.
