Another Year, Another James Harden Trade, Plus a Slew of Other Trades

coming up after this on the zach lowe show bobby marks is here our annual trade deadline recap tradition except we're doing it on the tuesday of trade deadline week because holy crap so much happened james harden is a cavalier darius garland is a clipper on the clippers kawaii's All-Star, by the way, is Kawhi going to get traded next? Jaron Jackson Jr. The Grizzlies' teardown is in progress. The Jazz give up three first-round picks and some other stuff to pair Triple J, Lowry Markin, and Walker Kessler. We're going super big. Grizz are going super teardown. Is Ja next? We have a Celtics deal. Vooch, the Chicago Bulls, they bought high and sold low, and the Celtics have a center. Anthony Simons is gone. We got a minor Pistons-Wolves-Bulls deal that may hint at something. Giannis, still a buck. Bobby Marks, the king of the cap, the king of the trade machine other than Bill, the king of NBA front office analysis is here from ESPN to help us digest all of it. What a Tuesday coming up on the Zach Lowe Show. This episode of the Zach Lowe Show is brought to you by State Farm. Life's better when you've got the right help. Think of that perfect pass that sets everything up smooth, effortless, just what your team needed. That's the kind of assist State Farm offers, whether it's online or in person. State Farm's your teammate when you need help making your next play. State Farm with the assist. Coverage options are selected by the customer. Availability and eligibility vary by state. Welcome to the Zach Lowe Show. Look who it is. My long lost friend, Bobby Marks. You know, Bobby, James Harden can reunite anybody, can do anything around this time of year. How are you, my friend? I feel like it's Simon and Garfunkel, right? Isn't that the, if I'm trying to think of reuniting here, maybe it's a journey and their lost singer that they replaced along the way. It's like coming all back together. How are you doing? Everything good? I'm living it. Hey, another year, another James Harden trade, right? Well, hey, look, man, it's Tuesday. Normally we do this on Thursday. That was our annual tradition. We'd get all done with our stuff on Thursday, hop off TV, hop right on, do a podcast recapping the madness. A lot of the madness hit today, so this is good timing for this. And literally half an hour ago, we're going to start with this. The Cleveland Cavaliers acquired James Harden from the L.A. Clippers for Darius Garland and a second-round pick. Woo! So a couple of things to start with. Number one, the jokes went off last night when Shams broke the story that Cleveland, that the Clippers and James Harden were working on a resolution. This is to me, from what I've heard anyway, this was not the typical James is angry and unhappy about life and he's going to mope his way out of town and demand a trade. This to me was baked in to the one plus one contract that he signed over the summer with the Clippers. They didn't pay him long term. that sent a clear message like, hey, 2027, we're turning the page. We're not paying you long term. In fact, we're going to do this weird, partially guaranteed player option thing like mutually assured destruction. And look, I think they just – everyone made a rational decision here that you could play out the year. The team just isn't good enough, and the Clippers have an opportunity to get a young, interesting – younger, interesting guard in Darius Garland. and the Cavs get James Harden and we sort of go that way in this trade. I mean, did you hear anything other than this? I think both sides understood that this was very possible if the team was not going to be a contender after they signed the deal. Yeah, I mean, I think if anything, maybe it caught the fans a little bit off guard just because they had been playing well. I think they were 17-4 before the weekend. and then they lose in Phoenix where Harden was a DNP personal, but was also at the Arizona State game, which was something else. And then last night against Philly, I was at the Philadelphia game. Oh, boy, I feel like I was back at the Meadowlands. It was like a lifeless feeling of six Clippers and an arena taken over by 76ers fans. and uh you just i mean you saw um in the beginning they jumped out to a 16 to 2 lead and it was just like it was like you know so yeah i i agree with you as far as the the contract it's a unique contract they call it a mutually player the mutual option which really means is that hardin um could opt out of it and become a free agent and if he opted into it he's only guaranteed like 13.3 million dollars there's a july 11th trigger date on it and everything and um so yes we after uh after it came out yesterday and there's dmp's personal we all saw the writing on the wall cleveland was mentioned you don't need to have a math major didn't figure out what makes sense right like almost to the dollar yeah i mean it's it's to the dollar and um you so I think the interesting thing, what did James Harden get out of this? What is James Harden getting out of this? Because he had to give up two things here, Zach Lowe. He had to waive his one-year bird restriction, which is basically a de facto no trade clause that was in the contract because he had a player option. And he had to basically eliminate most of his $2.3 million trade bonus. That's right. He had a trade kicker. Because Cleveland is a second apron team, and Garland is like 39-4, and Harden was like 39-2. And if you add that, they are taking back more salary. So it's reduced to like $260,000. So what is Harden going to get out of that? And I think that will be, is he going to get his next year guaranteed? Is there a promise that they're going to rip up that second year and do a new deal when we get into the off season? I think that's going to be the thing off the court that we're going to pay attention to. I just, real quick again on the Clippers. I said a month or two ago, a month or so ago, I think they're going to have a realistic view of themselves. I don't think they're going to care about the picks or the pick that they're sending to Thunder. I think they understand that there's a sunk cost. And if they conclude their team just isn't good enough and they get a good offer for James Harden or even Kawhi Leonard, I mean, that's still we still got 48 hours left. I think they would do it even if it increases the chances that they send Oklahoma City a high pick. That's five, six, seven years ago. So they can't be held in prison by that trade. And I think despite the fact that they have been one of the hottest teams in the league, I think they know history suggests Kawhi could get hurt again. The hole is just too deep. And even the apex version of this team, I don't think he's beating Oklahoma City, Denver, Houston, San Antonio, four times in seven games, just too much has to go right. And here they get what we'll talk about the Darius Garland fit. But to me, this is a no-brainer deal for the Clippers. It repositions them going into the next era. They've been precious about this cap space in 2027 and beyond. They have almost infinite amounts of it. They can easily take a $40 million salary in Darius Garland and still have enough to throw max money at one or more players. It's like no harm, no foul. We know Darius Garland has been an injury risk. Both his feet have been messed up in the last year. He had a horrible year or two years ago where he had the jaw wired shut and all that. We get it. He's also been an all-star. He's a very creative, cagey, fast twitch in tight spaces kind of player, good passer. Other teams have coveted him over the years, like the Spurs took a hard look at him before the Fox situation kind of materialized for them. I think the Hawks might have taken a look at him in the summer if it had gotten there, but it didn't, and now the Clippers get him. On Harden, what is he going to get? It's a very interesting question on a couple levels. number one it's possible that i have hardened stockholm syndrome bobby but i'm really starting to just enjoy how cold and brazen and mercenary he is respect it like it's just money it's like he he's the one player who's like they treat us like assets we're just assets to them well look you didn't pay me long term i don't think we're really going anywhere i like playing at home i like los Angeles. I wanted to be here, but you ain't paying me and you've signaled you ain't paying me. I'm going to go somewhere where I might be able to win and they might be able to pay me. And I'm prepared to do to break some shit on the way off the door. Now, they didn't get to that point because this has been, I think, a pretty copacetic relationship start to finish between Harden and the Clippers. And everybody understood each other from day one and certainly from the day they signed that contract. But I just respect like the mercenary nature of it. He's not trying to hide what this is for him. It's a vehicle to play some hoops, get some money. But from the Cavs' perspective, the what is he getting out of it is interesting. Because to me, this is an astonishing vote of no confidence in Darius Garland. An absolutely astonishing vote of no confidence in either his health, his big game performance, or both. Or his fit with Donovan Mitchell or all three because Darius Garland has two years left on his deal after this 42 million dollars next season which is almost the exact amount of James Harden's player option and then 44.8 the season after that if you give James Harden a two-year extension as far as this deal financially you're not it's not you're not going to end up saving a meaningful amount of money unless you take such a crazy discount that I don't see coming now if they just decide let's opt in for next year maybe you shave a year off of it but this isn't this looks like a salary dump almost of Darius Garland but if you extend James Harden at the same amount of money it's not a salary dump it's just trading up in age 10 years for a different player and an astonishing vote of no confidence in Darius Garland's ability to win this season for this Cavs team and maybe that's just about health maybe it's like for all his warts and big games and game sevens and whatever James Harden plays and Darius Garland has not played enough in the regular season and in the playoffs for us to have faith in him. But boy, it shows a level of anxiety and urgency and fear about Donovan Mitchell's long term stay ability, whatever that means, in Cleveland. that seems almost premature to me. Like, how did we get here this soon, this level of urgency, that this much is being thrown in the basket of this season? I don't know, man. Like, I get that James has had a better season than Garland. It's not close. He'd be an all-star in the East. He's more durable. He plays in the playoffs. He might shit the bed in the biggest games, but he'll have some good games along the way. It seems like a pretty big risk for the Cavs, it i'm surprised that they're this urgent about it are you at all or is this just like we're a better team and that's all that matters we're a better team this year and that's all that matters well i mean listen at the end of the day they're going to be judged in april may like you know i mean it goes back to even the move they made over the weekend um the you know the schruder ellis hunter trade um who you know they hired acquired hunter last year and basically jaylen tyson has made him somewhat it has made him expendable i mean that's the reality of it and then the intruder trade because I thought they needed some insurance because of Garland's injury. And then they go out and get Harden. And, you know, you swap out a 26-year-old for a 36-year-old. And I do believe, as you mentioned, some of it has to do with health, right? I mean, that has to, you know, the availability. And that's why I'm interested. We learned this last year with Mark Williams. I'm like, the trade ain't done until you go through the physicals and stuff like that. as far as where Garland is health-wise and everything. Because it's like I always equate when you do a physical, it's like you're getting your car inspected. You might have a good mechanic, and someone else might have a different mechanic as far as what they see under the hood. So we'll see what happens with that there. And also, the deadline's not over until the deadline's over. So the Cavs are not a complete team. They might be, and all they might have left as a salary dump of Lonzo or whatever because they have a million guards. But we'll see. We'll see. Yeah, and I think that's kind of the thing. I think the Lonzo thing will be the move to watch. Zach, when you look at it, you got two guys that rank in the top 20 in usage with Mitchell and Harden now. I mean, I watch, I mean, you watch a lot. Like, I love, you know, Donovan Mitchell with the ball is pretty dangerous, right? I think that's one of many questions to be answered here. Amid what is a vote of no confidence in Darius Garland, at the very least his health, this has to be a vote of confidence in James Harden. Yeah. And he's having his best season in a long time this year. He looks physically snappier and more explosive in the way that James Harden is explosive than he has in a long time. Defensively, we know he's not going to do much for you, but they have Evan Mobley and Jared Allen, and that should be enough to have a top 10 defense no matter who's on the floor. But there are certain – and look, one of the weaknesses of the Cavs is they don't get to the free throw line a lot. James Harden's still averaging eight and a half free throw attempts a game. Like that's a feather in his cap and something that will help them. But there are realities that you have to embrace, and one of them is, as he so famously put it, he is the system. Yeah, he'll get off the ball a little bit more when he has a Kawhi or a Donovan Mitchell or whatever with him, but you're going to play Harden ball a lot, And maybe they just don't care because Donovan Mitchell could use a little bit of a little bit of easing of the burden. Jared Allen will and Evan Mobley will feast on lobs from one of the greatest pick and roll or pocket passes, whatever, from one of the greatest pick and roll passers of all time. You stagger minutes as strictly as the Rockets once did with Chris Paul and James Harden. And you just make it you make it work. But there's that reality. And there's the reality that the playoff track record is what it is. he's had some huge playoff games. I flash back to that Philly-Boston series in 2023. He wins basically two of the games, games one and four, on the clutches jump shots. He had 45 points in game one with Embiid out in that series. It may be the greatest performance of his career. And then in game six and seven of that series, he completely no-showed. Dallas Clippers, two seasons ago, saves their series with a great game four, floater after floater after floater, no-shows the next two games without Kawhi Leonard. And then last year, Denver, no shows game seven. There's been a number of big game, whatever, you know, craps of the bed. This is just the reality that you're getting into. So it seems exciting now. It's certainly going to be exciting. But like they now have finals or bust pressure on them because Darius Garland, some injuries have been freakish. I don't know how chronic like turf toe should be. I've never had turf toe. I know it hurts a lot, but it feels like something that you should be able to get past at some point. And there's some chance that the Clippers just flipped a 36-year-old off a going nowhere, decent Western Conference team into a 26-year-old borderline all-star with the sort of creativity that I think would draw other players to him. No, I agree. And I think going back to the Clippers, you know, I know they had turned a corner, although against a soft, somewhat of a soft schedule. I think the game last week against Denver, when they went out up to Denver and lost there, I think that was a little, hey, this is, we're kind of, there's some separation from where we are and where Denver is right now, as far as, and I think that, that kind of put this in motion a little bit more here. But no, I mean, it's a win-out team. And after they lost to Indiana in the second round last year, Kenny Atkins said it like, hey, man, talent's there. Are we mentally tough? As a group, are we mentally tough enough and everything? And we're going to find out a lot about this team. Better win your series in five games. I can't be that surprised, I guess, because two or three episodes ago, I can't remember exactly what I said, but I said something to the effect of one of these teams that's in an extreme win now mode. I called them the funky teams. There's just something funky where they're in an extreme win now mode, but just something hasn't gone right in the fabric of their team. Something hasn't gone right in their season. Something they're just getting in their own way. one of those teams is going to make a surprising trade, even though they are gearing up to try to win everything this season, even though that's disruptive. And I was thinking of Cleveland and Orlando specifically. Now, I did not expect James Harden. And I do think there's just a certain level of risk here in giving up Darius Garland, unless they know so much about his medicals, that it is, in effect, risk-free. Because financially, it could end up being a wash. I guess we'll see. Can we just go over James Harden's career for a second? Yeah. you know have you seen all this stuff about well this is going to be his legacy now just asking out asking out of places have you seen this stuff floating around like this is just part of his you know shirts there so oklahoma city to houston to brooklyn to philly oklahoma city part yeah i know he is really a he is really a rocket first and foremost oklahoma city houston brooklyn Philly Clippers Cleveland leaving chaos in his wake at every stop yeah and it's been money happiness mostly money every single time with some hiccups along the way like when you didn't take the big extension in Brooklyn remember that and had to sort of recoup it and try to recoup it in Philly and if he's not paid the way he wants to get paid he's gonna he's gonna move on but it has been interesting to just see how many times he's moved in like the clippers correct me if i'm wrong i think they still owe two things and a swap right it's a 28 28 unprotected to philly and a 29 swap i think it's like top two or top three protected i mean when you're that kill those are the killers when the picks that you owe and that players a player like milwaukee owing you know whatever for to portland for lillard and the guy's not on your roster anymore and the picks haven't even come to fruition and those are really meaningful things for a team that had dug out of the pg shea kawaii mega trade and it just sort of added more years of purgatory onto this team to go for it with harden and it ultimately didn't lead as far as it needed to for it to be worth it Philly got out relatively painlessly from the Harden experience in terms of what they gave up and what they got. The Nets, man. Oh, man. I don't know if you were. I think you were my guest on the Low Post podcast when I first posited my favorite and one that I invented completely out of whole cloth conspiracy theory of all time that I still like 5% of me thinks might be true. Do you remember this? that Houston and the Sixers, because remember how tight those organizations are when Daryl moved from Houston to Philly during this Tillman-Daryl feud that was very public, almost too public, one might say, that the Rockets, the Sixers, and Harden colluded to use the Nets as a patsy middleman to get Harden from Houston to Brooklyn to Philadelphia and save the embarrassment of trading Houston, Philadelphia directly and keeping up the facade. Again, this is my bogus conspiracy theory facade of a feud And the theory is they all agreed we can get Brooklyn to pay through the nose to the Rockets James will go to Brooklyn and contribute to the sabotage of the Nets force his way out, and in the process, increase the value of the Nets picks that went to Houston. I posited this four years ago. Those picks have turned into Tari Eason and Reed Shepard, and there's a 2027 pick swap still to come where the Rockets can swap picks with the Nets next year. it's a it's a crazy x-files spooky molder conspiracy theory i actually don't believe that it's true but it's it if it is it would be it would have been a scheme for the ages you know it's i was just thinking this when you were saying all that like the carnage that he's left behind because if you go through all the picks like besides brooklyn still own houston a pick swap in 27 the sixers owing brooklyn a top eight protected first in 28 the picks that the Clippers owe Philadelphia in 28 and 20. Like there's still like four things out there from like three prior trades. It's just great. And to be clear, it's just my pet conspiracy theory. But I had said before, I have put out the call 15, 20 years from now, anyone wants to come clean, I'll write the book. I'll write the book on it. That's your limitations. Let's talk about what do you think of this from the Clippers' perspective? they're the as they're the oldest team in the nba right like they're they were not going anywhere here um and if he's healthy i think it helps them i think if you're the thunder this year because you oh you have that clipper pick you're thinking hmm interesting that's right interesting um but as where you see the west right now uh what are they 10th right now the clips I think they're in the last playing spot so they'll be they're up to 9th they should be a plan I don't know, first round you gotta get through Golden State and Mini or Phoenix or one of those teams so yeah I agree with you when you started I don't think the Clippers care what they've given up 6 years ago in that Oklahoma City trade it's just kind of full speed ahead Well, if they keep their team intact, they're going to make the play and probably by default, because as we're going to discuss, Memphis sure as hell ain't chasing it. The Jazz sure as hell ain't chasing it, although they made a big trade today. And so they should be safe in there, as should Portland. But, you know, stranger things have happened and we'll see if Garland can stay healthy. Have you heard any murmurings of Kawhi potentially being gettable? I haven't. that was something that I was I guess back in December probably when the whole Chris Paul stuff I guess it was December was going on I was like is that going to be the next Harden Leonard as far as the two guys when this thing was really sinking I think they were like 6-21 at the time but I had you know I've been there the last couple times I have not heard anything back that would be might as well right newly minted all-star Kawhi Leonard by the way Adam Silver what a year speaking of uh i mean that was the conspiracy theory going around you know that the coaches denied i didn't buy that that the coaches intentionally left to i don't think the coaches care about caps or convention i think they probably have a general idea that like something maybe allegedly not great happened but i think it was more an honor for lebron and now kawai is on had to be named by the commissioner whose league is investigating his doings which is delicious uh i think this is a great move for the clippers i i mean to turn hard and into garland is to me a win um i don't think there was going to be any better deal out there like i remember going through hard in trades like rockets yeah i don't think they're going to put van vliet on the table the bucks is right minnesota minnesota never seemed like like that was going to be a thing and we'll talk about them with yannis and stuff later uh the bucks is like a desperation team but obviously the Bucs are now in a lot of different flux and may not be buyers of that nature anymore. I just think it's no harm, no foul. And last thing on Cleveland, what does this do? It probably doesn't do anything for what they can offer LeBron potentially in free agency, right? What is their LeBron optionality now? Minimum is the minimum. Come on down. Trying to think if I have any other notes on this. Really interesting trade. And I get maybe all that matters is the Cleveland Cavaliers, the 2025-26 Cleveland Cavaliers are better now than they were three hours ago. And maybe that's all that matters for a team that's under this amount of pressure. I mean, Mitchell's extension stuff. Yeah, this summer. So I think that's – Is it this summer? Yeah. Oh, this summer could be pretty wild because you've got a lot – Mitchell and there's a bunch of guys. But yeah, I mean, Mitchell's extension eligible this summer. He's got a player. He's marked his extension eligible in summer 27 on Spotrack, but that must be wrong and or that must just be wrong. Yeah, because he's a free agent and he could be a free agent in 27. Yeah, I think maybe the player option is messing around with him. So it's this summer. That's what I thought. Then I looked on there and I was like, what? There's pressure there, right? I mean, like to try to improve upon what you did, you know. So, you know, it would be interesting if they hadn't struggled so much this year, if some of these deals don't happen. And they have played well of late. You know, they got their doors blown off against Oklahoma City. But two wins in Philly, I thought, were impressive. They had a win at home. The Laker win, I think that was last week. You know, Laker team that's on the road. But if they were, you know, where they were a year ago, if they were like 36 and 10, right? Like, are you doing this? It's harder. To your point about the longer-term risk, if there is one, in aging up this far, the team is better today than it was five hours ago. It's going to have to reorient itself a little bit and answer some fit questions. But the team that was five hours ago, with Garland potentially coming back pretty soon, was fourth in the East, eight and ten in their last ten games, Punch has chance of getting up to two, three, or at the very least, hopefully staying at four tied with Toronto home court, first round in a conference where everyone agrees, like, but what, that team can't win it. Of course the team, like Cleveland could have won it. So, you know, now you really have had to, you really have had to up your championship odds and maybe, maybe that's what it's about. Maybe it's even thinking beyond the East. Like if we actually are lucky enough to get out of the East, what do we need on the biggest stage? But boy, end of the Darius Garland era any final thoughts on this? I will say it is a reminder that anytime players, even good players on good teams, and I'm talking Harden in this case, are entering the final year of their contract, funny things can happen and I took note when Wendy said the other day that he had heard Isaiah Hartenstein's name a little bit out in the trade universe. I had not and I still really have not to be honest with you but I'm not saying he hears more than I do and at first it struck me as like whoa he's really important to the team that just won the championship like I didn't even I'm very aware that there's a team option on both him and Lou Dort for next season newly clutch sports Lou Dort there you go I'm I'm very aware what what the funders financial realities are going forward and i've discussed the possibility of them declining those team options just to save money before if certain players are ready they drafted thomas sorber a center last draft um but for some reason my mind didn't go to the next step of like would they actually make a move during the season to try to thread the needle of maybe saving money and not losing talent, losing so much present-day talent in a trade. I don't know what that trade looks like. I just didn't even think about it because to me – It's just because it's not Sam's DNA. Well, if you're going full blast for the title, the title has to be priority number one. And anything has to come after that to me. I agree. I think the Hayward trade from – what was that, two years ago? It was kind of like, whoa, this is hard to make trades in season and then have it worked out for you. I forgot that that happened. Okay, let's go on to the next big deal of the day. The Utah Jazz acquired Jaron Jackson Jr. from the Memphis Grizzlies in exchange, and they get some players with him. Jock Landell's a good player. Vince Williams is a good player. John Contrard's display. They get some rotation players in exchange for some players, most notably I think Walter Clayton Jr. and Taylor Hendricks, two young players, but mostly three first-round draft picks. A 2027 first round pick that is the best of a bunch of teams. Could be Utah. Could be Utah. That's something. 2027, not 2026. The Lakers pick one to four protected in 2027. Yeah. And the Phoenix pick unprotected in 2031. to put Jaron Jackson Jr., who is under contract through 2030 with a $50 million average salary over the next four years after this one, to pair him with Lowry Markkinen, presumably Walker Kessler, who is a restricted free agent, and all the reporting and everything I've heard is they intend to bring him back and at least experiment with a triple big lineup. And then a young core of Keontae George, who I think, like, he may not be the reason this trade happened but i'm not sure this trade happens without the jazz feeling pretty certain we've got a guy on the perimeter in keante george let's hit the gas a little bit keante george ace bailey i think has been very solid as a rookie cody williams is showing he may be like a rotation piece um and then you know we'll see what collier and sense a ball and and notably who the utah jazz might end up picking in this coming draft which is very interesting to me because jaron jackson jr is going to help them win basketball games they owe a top eight protective pick to oklahoma city they have the sixth worst record in the nba right now they have been sitting people left and right for the last three or four weeks after two back-to-back wins over the spurs and the pistons made them dangerously close to being competent i would expect them to try to keep that pick but the chicanery only gets deeper because they've added another really good veteran player. What do you think of Utah cashing in? I mean, they've cashed in almost all of their Minnesota, Cleveland, Gobert Mitchell draft equity now. The last batch of it here for Jaron Jackson Jr. Let's start from their perspective. This is their cap space being used, right? This is Utah saying no one is going to come here as a free agent, so we're going to get somebody who's under contract. So it's their cap space and their draft bounty, the final batch of it used in one big transaction for a guy who has become, I think, quite a polarizing player in the NBA. Yeah, I mean, I think there's two things with this trade that doesn't happen unless these two things happen. The one was the trade. Remember last year when Utah made that trade with Phoenix and they traded three of their lesser picks and they got that Phoenix pick in 31, that unprotected first. And then the other one was Jackson Jr. renegotiating his contract this summer and then extending it for four more years. It goes from 35. I like him at 35. Do I like him at 50? A little rich, 50 across the board, basically. I think if those two things don't happen, we probably don't have a deal here because Utah is not trading for a guy on a one-year contract and giving up the rest of their really good picks. And from what I understand, the 31 Phoenix first was kind of the crown jewel of what was included along with, as we've said, that 27, the most favorable, which, hey, Utah's in the Western Conference, right? We'll see what happens as far as where their roster goes. I understand taking a big swing because, as you said, basically, they were going to have cap space. Who are you using cap space on? I've started looking at the free agent market this summer. It is basically dominated by, no offense, old players, right? 70% are guys in their 30s. That's the reality of it. They were floated around the league. I'm sure you've heard as an Austin Reeves max slot destination. That's gone now. But the way George has played, I mean. He's been terrific. I don't know that Austin Reeves at $45 million or whatever it would be is the best use of their cap space. Yeah, no, he's been, it's been, you know, you love guys like, because the one thing with Utah was like, you know, like you say, like they can spin the wheel on drafting and drafting and drafting and picking three guys. Like eventually like one of these guys are going to have to hit, right? You're going to need like a blue chipper in there. And he has been terrific. And I agree with you. The development of him as far as where he is right now, not sure this trade happens if he has had kind of flatlined a little bit here. But I think the most interesting thing this year, as you said, like you got four live bodies, right? They're all healthy, I believe. If you want to keep your pick, how are we going to do it? You know, it's like the flu is going to have to go around a bunch of times. Just like, man, people keep passing it to each other. I don't know. Like, just I'm sick too, Adam. You know, sorry. You know, I think it'll be interesting too. You mentioned with Kessler Walker, who's out for the year. Like you've, I mean, you've heard like, there's some teams sniffing around, like, you know, offer sheet type stuff that, you know, what's the number there Utah will be comfortable matching guy coming off an injury. if the goal is to go with three bigs. It's funny, though. We talk about cap space in the offseason, right? Like, oh, there could be seven or eight teams. You know how many teams have cap space this summer, Zach Lowe? Well, one of them just vanished, and we're talking about them right now. The other one we're going to talk about in a minute is Chicago. They've chipped away a little bit there, and now you're looking at Brooklyn and the Lakers probably and the Wizards. yeah it doesn't and if i'm the wizards like i know the wizards were linked to sabonis i don't think that was ever i mean they definitely there was a conversation in the last three months sure but i think that was more the wizards like if we can get them for it like if you're gonna give us an asset to take him we'll do it i don't think they wanted really aggressively to go get sabonis maybe i'm wrong but i'm not trying to like muck up alex sar's development at center with another high-priced center, I think Jackson, Markin, and Kessler can work fine. Like, if you're going to play three big guys together, two of them have to be able to shoot and face up, and Markin and Jaron Jackson Jr. can do that at a very high level for big men, and Walker Kessler can do Walker Kessler things. And then if it ends up being something that you play 12 minutes a game, 15 minutes a game because it doesn't work as well as you hope, that's fine, too. There's plenty of minutes for three front-court players. The Wolves are living this right now with Randall, Gobert, Reed. Like it's not that hard to do. You do mention the blue chip thing. You know, they fell to what, fifth in the lottery last year and picked Ace Bailey, who looks good. I don't know what Ace Bailey is going to be. I've been impressed with him as a rookie. He's really dialed in on defense. He cuts. He moves the ball. He's like completely different than I thought he would be as a rookie. Keontae George is a very good player for where they drafted him. Is he like an A1 guy? I don't know. I think he's going to be an all-star. And they just haven't – the lottery gods haven't been kind to them, and then they took these sort of half-tank measures every season before last year where they'd get off to a good start and be like, oh, crap, we're good, and pull the rug out, and by then you're picking eighth instead of second or third or wherever. And if they don't hit the lottery this year, then there is some chance – like Jaron Jackson Jr. is really good. I'm probably higher on him than consensus. I think his flaws are – he's almost townsy in that his flaws are so obvious and so loud. Like, he doesn't get rebounds, but his teams generally rebound pretty well. I think there's something going on there. He does take himself out of, like, every three games with dumb fouls, and it just is what it is. I think his defense is back near where it was when he won defensive player of the year, if not quite there, pretty close. Offensively, he's become a pretty versatile player. he's only an okay passer and there's a sort of a sort of passing deficit collectively on this Utah team but he's a very good player all that said I do think there's some chance that Utah has sort of bought itself a good to very good but is it ever going to be great team and it's too early to say that because we don't know where they're going to draft and we don't know what Ace Bailey he's going to be but um i think they're like i think there is something will hardy's a great coach and he'll maximize this group is it good they could be a 50 win team they could be a 50 win team like next year if all things go right is this going to be a championship team in the next five years in the west i i have a hard time seeing that from here but that's also okay i mean it's been a long dark wandering in the wilderness for utah no i agree i mean when was the mitchell trade was in was that 22 summer yeah the Mitchell Gobert stuff is four years ago and they've used almost all that stuff to get the Phoenix pick and then now they have one I think one surplus pick and a couple of swaps still left over so they're not they're not at a deficit they're still at a surplus it's just they're not now one of the teams that controls the whole league I think they have like eight first I think eight first in the next seven years for tradable here so they're not like They just went from a big number now. Listen, you can either parlay these picks into players in the draft if you have the patience. You keep on waiting and waiting, or you're going to parlay them into players, like players that can help you try to turn this thing around. And when they didn't trade Markkinen, I think they made that decision almost at that moment because once you decide we're not trading Markkinen, And you can't then a year later, a year and a half later, go back. You know what? We're going to bottom out now after four years of being bad. Now we're going to bottom out again and be bad for four more years. So, you know, I think it's fine for Utah. We'll see where they go. But Jaron Jackson Jr. is a really good player. They've got to figure out the playmaking part of this a little bit. And Will Hardy's coaching will help. Memphis. Morant could be next. I think they'd love to get off Morant if they can find a market. I wonder if the price comes down a little bit now, right? Their demand, their ask. Yeah. You got seven firsts from Bain and Jaron in the last two trades. It's pretty good. The ask could come down. And so after a grand total of one playoff series win, the Morant-Bain-Jackson trio could be over, replaced by Edie, Cedric Coward, and you tweeted all. I love me some Cedric Coward. Oh, my God. They nailed that. He's going to be so good. And then you outlined on Twitter all the picks that they have. They have their own first for the next seven years. All of them. Yeah. A more favorable extra pick, either Orlando or Phoenix this year. The Lakers pick that I mentioned. The other 2027 pick I mentioned. Swaps with Orlando. Another unprotected first with Orlando and the Phoenix pick. They got a lot of stuff for breaking up that group. And I'll start here. I saw a lot of angst online today from Grizzlies fans and from even reporters who just sort of have an affinity for the Grizzlies. I want to name check Matt Moore, who I think is really good. Just sort of disillusioned that this is where we ended up that the rug was pulled out from this team prematurely that they put too many chips in the E bucket and have now sort of reoriented the team in a rush around E.D. and given up early on a defensive player of the year, multi-time all-star who's in his prime. And what are the chances we ever get a player that good with one or multiple or all of these picks put together. And I get that. I get the feeling of that. I think that a little bit elides two things, if elide is the right word. Number one, I think once the Moran situation went sideways, there was a sense internally that the entire construct of the team kind of falls away with John Moran not being an all-NBA-level player and certainly not being reliable. And number two, and Matt mentioned that to his credit, But number two, I just think the Grizzlies understood that Jaron Jackson Jr., 49 million, 50 million, 52 million, 53 million. If he goes sideways a little bit or plateaus, we could be almost in jail with that contract in a couple of years. Like the Knicks are kind of in jail with Towns, who makes more admittedly. And if we can get three good picks or three picks, one of which, two of which might be really good. that's actually pretty good value. I don't mind this for them from a value perspective. I think it's actually, I think this is probably selling about as high as they could sell. Cause that contract, you could find teams in the league of like, we don't, we like the player, but not the contract. Yeah. I mean, I think it's, it's almost, you know, you, you saw it in the summer with the Bain traded the roster. You basically had expired. You basically kind of hit as far as where you were thought you could go here. Um, and when the jaw stuff came out in January, I thought it certainly set the wheels in motion as far as what happened with Jaron. When I was at the game last night against the Clippers or on Monday night against Clippers, I had a team exec come up to me and said, pay attention to Memphis. You know, I'm hearing that roster is going to look awfully different on Thursday. And then you start thinking like, it's not Jha, right? Because we're still trying to think, where's Jha? Where could he find? And so it had to be Jaron here. I think the picks all have some type of value to it. You would certainly rank probably the Phoenix pick first and then maybe that 27 pick second, maybe that Laker pick. Who knows what happens with that roster? But, you know, Luke will be on that roster when that pick comes to fruition. But who? Right. What are they doing this summer? Right. They basically are going to have to turn over most of it with with with this group here. But you're right. I think, as I said, I when you renegotiate and extend and you're using cap space and you go from it's similar to like not to the extent of Mikael. Like I like Mikael Bridges on a twenty four million dollar contract. Do I like Mikael Bridges on a thirty six thirty seven million dollar deal? Like long like that's a little bit dicey. But with Jaron, it's a big number, man. Like 50. 50 is a big number. And again, I think he's really good. I think he's the kind of player who a lot of teams were probably I know a lot of teams are like, yeah, we like him We'd be interested in him And not as many would be when the rubber hits the road Be like, here's three first round picks And some other stuff to make it happen And if he's the same player in two years Or he's 5% worse in two years In jail is probably too strong a word But we've seen these contracts at this level 30% of the cap are hard to move for non-superstar players. And Jaron Jackson Jr. is a star. I don't think he is a superstar. Mikael Bridges, by the way, is an apt name to mention because the road not taken for the Grizzlies is, remember, they were like dangling all their first-round picks for Durant, for Mikael Bridges, for OGN and OB, and they couldn't strike a deal. That was when they had Bain and Morant and Jackson. They were going to go all in. They couldn't strike a deal. So it's interesting you mentioned that. When they acquired, I remember that. When they acquired Bridges, Brooklyn did for Durant, and basically Memphis was like, hey, we'll give you everything. Everything. Yeah. So this is fine. I mean, I understand it's depressing, but this is now a long-haul rebuild. And in Memphis, that may be the way you have to do it. I do think the team they had was a really good and really fun team. It also couldn't really do much in the playoffs. Injuries explained a lot of that. Jaw had been injured. Steven Adams was injured. Clark was injured. They had a lot of injuries, in fairness. And then once Morant went from, is he going to be a first-team All-NBA guy to, is he going to be available at all? I think that changed everything. So interesting trade. It'll be interesting to revisit down the line. I think it's fine for both teams. Ready to move on or any parting thoughts on this? I've got to turn my next note card here. The Celtics trade Anthony Simons. and a second round pick, a good one. Yeah, it is a good one. To the Chicago Bulls for Nikola Vucevic and a worse second round pick. Where would you like to start here, Bobby? I don't know. You know, I'm not as... I like what... Boston's got a good eye for personnel. I don't know, man. I guess Anthony Simon's kind of stole my heart a little bit this year. I mean he's been good for them you know I mean like I get it I saw somebody last night and we were talking about Celtics just before the trade and they said yeah Kata, Namaste Kata he's had a good year right as far as what his role has been kind of worried when you get to the playoffs as far as where that front court is and I think Vooch you know I don't want to say poor man's version but it's kind of I guess similar to how they used Horford a little bit or how they will use him. But in order to get something, you've got to give up something here, and you lose a sixth man off your bench in Simons who's having a good year. The pick is the pick. It's the New Orleans pick, second, which could be a 31st or 32nd pick in a draft. So I'm kind of like just – I get it. I'm not like dancing in the streets because of the trade here. now listen you tell me we're going to see Tatum come back then we're talking here right like and that's a big if with that but I understand I understand them going out and trying to get a center and you have to swap out a guard and Simon's to do that I think the most incredible thing I put a stat up before where their payroll was this summer compared to now it's like It's like $300 million, and they're tied for second in the Eastern Conference. Yeah, they've gone from Drew Holiday, $32 million, to Anthony Simons, $27 million, to Nikola Vucevic, $21 million, and then you factor in the tax stuff, and it's like multiples upon multiples. And they're under the first apron now. So what that means is that, you know, I know buyout season's a little bit overrated a bit, but hey, maybe there's a guy out there that gets waived who's got a salary that they can go out and sign now and do something with that. well explain to people why the being under the face apron what that allows them to do if you are over either apron you are not allowed to sign a player who is waived and had a pre-existing salary of 14.1 million that's the non-tax mid-level so hypothetically if uh chris middleton was bought out of his i'm just throwing out a name was bought out of his contract with the wizards you would have not been allowed to sign him now when you go under the either you know both aprons now that gives you the flexibility now to go out and sign a player it's why we're you know like if lebron had agreed to a buyout in the middle of the year and um with the lakers he would not be allowed to go sign in cleveland because they are an apron team um yes so the savings is big for boston on multiple ways that are not just like oh great the new owner gets to save some money simons has been good this year 40 from three 14 15 a game has sort of found his footing in the last six weeks and he has given boston a real pop off the bench like he's had some big scoring games and just sort of the comfort level this is the number two offense i think in the nba right now the comfort level you feel that we can have two of white pritchard simons and brown on the floor at all times without overtaxing any of them, I think has been like a source of rotational security for Joe Muzula. And now he's gone. And in comes Vucevic, who is shooting well. He's having his like once every three years. He's shooting really well from three season. Look, we all knew they needed front court help. I don't think Vucevic is going to play significant, if any, minutes alongside Keita or alongside Luka Garza, the other two big men that are in the rotation. but he's probably better than Garza. He is better than Garza or certainly more dangerous offensively. And it's just another tool in the box. Like I think that Pistons game where they lost recently and Jalen Duren just bullied and bulldozered all over the floor. I think that left a scar on the Celtics. We really need to let another bruiser, like a bigger guy here. And you mentioned Tatum and to me, Tatum is the key thing hovering over all of this to be as blunt as possible. if he comes back he's another perimeter player and that renders simon's expendable at the at the cost if the benefit is adding a big man and if he doesn't come back we're probably not going to win the whole thing anyway or make the finals and so we might as well save some money i think that's sort of what the deal looks like to me no i agree i mean they're they're this you know save about 22 million in the towards the towards the luxury tax here and uh you're right if he doesn't come back Like it's, you know, we are who we are, which is, shoot. I mean, it's a fun team to watch. You know, when you got your hat on, our Mets two years ago, that was a fun team to watch, right? Two years ago when nobody expected anything from us. You know what it was really fun to watch? When I had no job and I could drink during the games and not worry about what I was going to do the next day. It was a great time. Highly recommend. And then you go out and pay someone $700 million and it's not as fun to watch as to watch. So I think that's for the Celtics. I'm not saying they just paid someone $700, but when you have no expectations, it is certainly a lot different. I'll say I would like, I saw Shams tweet. There's probably ESPN social team tweeted some graphic, like the Celtics have found their center. And it was a picture of Vooch in a Celtics jersey. To me, he should be their backup five. Like I'm not taking Kata out of the starting five. Kata's been terrific. Vooch is a big name. That's cool. He does some things really well. That's cool. Kata is the starter. And I think the Celtics have benefited from a sort of active, moving, interior-oriented presence, fast twitch, cuts around the basket, offensive rebounds. And Vucic fits that Horford mode of I'm just going to hang around the three-point line and set screens and space the floor. And Boston is a professional goddamn basketball team in every sense of the word. He fits that. Their spacing is impeccable. Like this team sticks to its spacing and its principles as strictly as any team in the NBA. They do not mess up in almost any way, but especially their spacing. Vucvich fits into that. He's an extremely low turnover player for a team that has been either first or second in turnover rate the entire year. And in a pinch, he can post up some switches, kind of adding the poor Zingas gear that the Celtics had. I never get too excited about it. Here comes like a 12-foot lefty hook from Vucvich because he never gets to the line. but you know, he, he adds some stuff and he's another big body. I don't mind it for the Celtics. Even, even if it costs them Simons, I do say for the bulls and we're going to get to the last trade of the day, the bulls exchange of guards and all that, they have a million guards. There's certainly one or two other shoes that are going to drop in the next 48 hours. Bought as high as you cost possibly could on Vooch and sold as low as you possibly. It's just, it's just, it's just as flat out. not a great series of transactions 21 the 21 trade deadline i don't know man it feels like march wasn't the typical trade deadline because of covid we had a march trade deadline and the franz wagner pick of course became the centerpiece of that of that trade it's just you know it's been it's been a it's been a half decade for the bulls yeah speaking of which uh all reports are that zach labina is going to pick up his player option in sacramento I'm trying to think if I have any thoughts I mean good for Vuc that he gets to play on a good team I guess I don't really have any thoughts on this as a Bulls fan I would just be like let's move on to the next thing okay one more trade you ready? let's go oh I have a Vuc question for you I was watching a Bulls game recently when Vuc had a double-double and his home broadcast teams are want to do they had adam amin and stacy king who are awesome had a stat ready about how vuc has the second most double doubles in the league since his whatever since whatever year behind only lebron i i may be misquoting the stat but It's something like that. And my first thought was, wait, wait, what? More than Jokic? And then my second thought was this. Should a triple-double count as two double-doubles? Are they separate things? So, like, when you get a triple-double, you can't get a double-double? Because a triple, what is a triple-double if not two double-doubles? You should. If Vuc has more double-doubles than Jokic, clearly a double-double is only one specific thing. two tens in one category and if you get a third you're out of the double double you only get a triple double that's all well there it's almost like you're being penalized for double doubles when you have a triple double this is how my brain works man it's not it's a sad it's a sad i'll tell you what you know how my brain works zach you know i like to play tennis i was playing tennis last week and i got a text about the apron someone is asking me an april A team asked me an apron question, and that is for the next hour, I'm thinking about the apron. I'm out there just thinking about the apron. Do you have an apron that references the NBA apron? Do you have an actual kitchen barbecue apron? I have two. I have a Lowe's and I have a Home Depot apron that someone made for me. But does it mention the NBA apron? Yeah. Oh, yeah. It's at home. I didn't bring it. It's at home. Wow. I wear it around the house. Cooking burgers. That's great. Okay. Last trade of the day, a confusing three-team extravaganza. I think there's more to this. I think this might get a little bigger here. Let's talk it out. It's Bulls, Pistons, Wolves. Yeah. The Bulls get Jaden Ivey. Yeah. And Mike Conley. Yeah. Who I think will be bought out. I don't think we'll see Mike Conley in Chicago. Detroit gets Kevin Herter. Yep. And Dario Saric, who I'm sorry to my Croatian brother, but is not so relevant in this trade. It was a short-lived tenure in Chicago. Yeah. Great memories. And the Wolves get cash. And the Pistons also got a pick swap with the Wolves this year, which actually bought them. Which actually, it's like, I was looking at it before, 29 to 20, if the season ended right now, 29 to 23. Hey. So the headline here is, what are the Wolves doing? We'll get there. The sub-headline here is, I've been waiting to see what Detroit would do at the trade deadline. Because I've been arguing that they should do at least something. That this is a year where the conference is just ripe for the taking. that their offense is going to have some issues in the playoffs because of their spacing. And we've been imagining these like Tobias plus Ivy plus picks, you know, for marketing or whatever. Clearly such a thing did not materialize. And it feels a little disappointing at first blush to turn what was a prize number five pick in Jaden Ivy, half of your backcourt of the future with Cade Cunningham into a pick swap to go up six, seven spots, whatever it is. And Kevin Herter, kind of a journeyman shooting guard, who's fine. That seems kind of like, whoa, that's all they could get for Jaden Ivey, who has turned himself into a good three-point shooter, 37% this year, 40-something percent in limited action last year before his leg injury. I guess that's all they could get. if you're not going to put him in to a blockbuster deal as like the young guy carrot which maybe he didn't have that appeal anyway actually think i think kevin herter is going to be useful for detroit in the playoffs as he hasn't shot it well this year but i'll trust the track record as a three-point shooter who offers a little bit more on defense than duncan robinson and just like another if assar thompson's cramping our spacing and it's just he's having one of those games where the cons outweigh the pros. I always have had to feel that Levert plus Jenkins plus Cade is just too much of the same thing or similar on-ball thing at the same time. I think it's another tool in the toolbox. It's not quite what I hoped for when I kept saying I think Detroit will do something and take a little bit of a swing, but it's something. I think it'll help them. I agree. I agree with you as far as but the Ivy part is interesting just because the injury I think it was a year ago, right? When he basically broke his leg and was out for the year. I mean, that really hurt him because I thought he was playing really well before that injury. And he was going to be a restricted free agent. There was no extension. What were you going to pay him? You got to pay Doran now. I mean, that's, you know, you can't do everything. Herter 31-4 from 3 this year A little bit down Pistons ranked 21st in 3-point shooting I think for them They've got to be in the teens High teens But here's the one I just looked at his Kevin Herter 30 playoff games Last two years Zach Lowe 29% and 20.5 20.5%. And I remember that Kings Warriors 7-gamer where I think he had a good last couple I'm going off the top of my head. I think he had a good last couple of games in that series and I admired it because he had to dig himself out of such a deep shooting slump where it was like it had reached a point where the crowd was in agony like audibly after every miss. He's been better this year frankly as like a screen, like a short roll playmaker, like screen, cut, dive, move off the ball. He's a decent defender. Yeah. The shooting has just come and gone and he's, he's had enough of those playoff games where you start to wonder is, is the pressure and the extra defensive attention getting to him a little bit, but we've had other guys who we thought that about. And then as the sample size got big enough in the playoffs, the shots started to go at the rate you'd expect it. So look, it's not, what I envisioned but I do think I mean Ivy felt like he was It felt like it had run its course with Detroit that he was kind of a forgotten man he played 12 minutes 15 minutes 18 minutes and just the fit with Cade was only okay it's worth a shot for the Bulls I mean the thing with Ivy is he's become a decent shooter the playmaking decision making just hasn't sort of caught up with the shooting but I think it's worth a flyer for the Bulls as long as you don't go crazy paying him. Oh, I agree. I mean, before I was looking at his numbers, before his injury last year, 46 and 41, almost 18 points. Yeah. Yeah. No, I think that's kind of like, those are the moves, I think, with Chicago as far as, you know, taking those, you know, the forgotten first round picks that teams are probably discarding here and see if you can, you know, shining them up. So it's worth it based on where you got a lot of guards. It is interesting when you talk about Chicago, just for teams, Zach, the two guys that are circled the most or that teams covet are Trey Jones and Io. So those are the two guards that teams love. Trey Jones came there from the Spurs as part of the – What deal was that? Yeah, the D.R. Fox trade, right? Oh, Fox. Yeah, it's fine. I knew it was some Kings, Bulls, Spurs extravaganza. Yeah, Fox. As sort of like with Herter as well and Zach Collins. And Io's a draft pick of theirs. Every smart team is on to Io now. you're not stealing him under the radar now. And so that's, I was going to say, let's spin it forward. You said there's more, there's more to come. I just, I think this thing I was, I just saw like, it's not going, they're not, they're going to wait on this to basically see if they can maybe this thing gets expanded. I think the Minnesota part is going to be interesting, right? Like they save, they get under the apron. They saved like $20 million. Someone had an agent text me. I said, what do you do with that money? You have a big pizza party. A lot of cheese pies. No, no, no. I want the hot sauce, pepperoni. Let's go. Come on, A-Rod. Give us some good pizza. Now, what is your next? What are you going to? Is this it? Are you going to tell Anthony Edwards, you know what? You saved $20 million for you. No, you're not going to tell Anthony Edwards that. So what is going to be next for the Minnesota Timberwolves here? Okay, so let's go there. They're under the first apron, which I believe – 3.8 over the tax, and they are under the first and second. Yep. So if you get under the first apron, if you're apronless, if you're just naked, aprons are flying in the wind. Yeah. The thing you can do is you can now take back more money than you send out in a trade, right? Yeah, as long as your post-transactional salary leaves you under. Yep. So that's a big deal. That's a lot more freedom when you shed those pesky aprons. And they've saved money, obviously. Everybody wants to connect this to Giannis because they have been one of the, let's say, half dozen teams that are on the inner circle, I guess, of Giannis pursuers. No one quite knows how they're going to do this, other than Jaden McDaniels would certainly have to be in it. They don't have other picks at their disposal. Or he goes somewhere else and you're getting picks. I'm saying one way or another, J.D. McDaniels is not on the Timberwolves. But even that, are they getting enough just out of that to get Giannis? Does Randall go? What value does he have? Gobert, this and that. How materially, how does a Mike Conley salary dump help them potentially get Giannis? Is it just that apron flexibility that I mentioned? Yeah, I mean, that's the thing. I mean, you're still – I think they're like two and change below the first apron. And so Giannis is at $54 million, and you can take back – you can send out $52 million, right? So it gives you a little bit of that – it's not like the, oh, my God, we're under the first – it's like the bells and whistles and stuff like that. You're still going to have to send out. It's not like you can just send out $43 million. you still got to send out a bunch and it's as you said like McDaniels or whatever to get to that number there's still a lot of work to do and as you mentioned there's no picks right like they're basically no one has been able to explain exactly how Tim Connolly would pull this off I don't doubt that there's a pathway I just don't know what it is yeah I don't either I mean it's like you know is it it's a combination of McDaniels is it one of the bigs reader Randall? Um, I think I'm sure Dillingham would be in there somewhere. I mean, I think there, I think that the Rob Dillingham era is probably over in, uh, in Minnesota. Um, but yeah, I mean, and still that's not, that's not the enticing package. If you're in Milwaukee, no, it shouldn't be the most enticing. It's certainly not enticing enough for me to do it now. Instead of like, I've someone has to pass the wait for the summer test. And whether that's golden state with their four first round picks, which is really 3.75 first round picks and young players, whether it's Miami, let's say they go out and get another first round pick. And so it's three plus all their young players. Like you could, whether those pass the wait till the summer test is really up to the bucks ownership and John Horst and you and me. I don't think that Minnesota deal Passes the way for the summer test But Tim Connolly has been known to pull Multiple rabbits out of multiple hats But here's the thing you just mentioned All these people going The Wolves are A, very good You know Are they going to win the West? I don't know They're my dark horse in that way But they're a dark horse They're not Oklahoma City And they're not Denver Who lost to Detroit tonight by the way That's a game I'll be curious to watch tomorrow morning or late tonight. Detroit beat Denver 124-121. Pistons just rolling right along. Orlando getting smoked by the thunder. That's my funk team, man. That's my funk team. It's going to be if it ain't in the next 48 hours, it's going to be in the summer. This team's going to look different. If this funk, if this stench does not dissipate. High-salary team in the summer. Something will change there. Coach, players, both. We'll see, because they're about to be one game over 500. That's pretty depressing. What the hell were we talking about? Oh, the Wolves. The Wolves are good, perhaps not great, but good, and they play the good teams really well, thus the back-to-back conference finals appearances. Can't wipe that away as a fluke. You get to the conference finals two years in a row, you're a damn good team. So damn good as is. They're also very thin. There are nights where Nas Reed is basically the entire bench production scoring-wise by himself, plus or minus a Bowens Highland explosion, and Bowens has been pretty good for the last six weeks. But they're thin. If you're talking like three for one or four for one or four for two, yeah, the one is Giannis, who's the third best player in the NBA probably. He's also injured, and are you just going to be a six-man team? Like, those are questions you have to address somehow. Well, and that's the thing. You know, even when you talk New York, which I don't think, I think New York is, I don't, I haven't heard any traction regarding New York. I think that would be more of a summer thing as far as where they are after the playoffs are done. I keep on wrapping my head around like Giannis is out, although there's a video of him shooting today on the court. You know, we never got a medical report. Did we ever get a medical report from the Bucks on his – I know he self-diagnosed himself. The whole thing has been very fishy. His four to six weeks, which I've heard through my back channels is more or less accurate, but he also is a superhuman healer, so you never know. to the Bucs as a team official statement being like, yeah, there's no timetable. We're not giving you anything. We got too much going on for there to be a timetable right now. So take this nothing and like it, media. So regarding Minnesota, I just have a hard time, as you said, a team that's trying to compete for a championship, trying to compete for a high seed, trading three players away in the middle with 30 games left in the year for a guy that is hurt right now. Like, I just keep on coming back to that. And, like, core guys. Like, not just, you know, like, end of the bench and we're going to give you – I mean, they don't have first trade, but core guys. Beloved local fan base guys. And maybe that's okay because, like, a lot of these Giannis teams, if not all of them that would move now, you're doing it more for next as at least as much for next year if not more than you're doing it for this year which really isn't awesome if you're trading everything for a 31 year old with a calf injury history you should be prioritizing this playoff run as much as anything else but i i don't see a team that's really well positioned to do that particularly if a wolf team would give you three guys for one or four guys for one but again we'll see have you found a cinderella yannis team yet like a totally off the beaten path like maybe this team could get yannis i have for instance i've talked about orlando with paolo but he's poison pill we've talked about that that's almost like i think it's interesting like if we get past thursday at three like and he hasn't been traded I think it just opens up to a lot more things. Well, I'm talking now, though. Like, and I said on the last episode. I mean, the only thing I could really like, you know, I've heard like, you know, Portland because they have their picks in 28. Like, you know, it's like my favorite movie, Draft Day. Right. I'll give you your goddamn picks back. Remember that movie? So the worst fucking he's he should have been fired seven times in that movie. So like Portland and then like, you know, Toronto, you know, like. Toronto's a good one. Yeah, I was on Toronto Radio this morning and we were talking, why is always Toronto mentioned in things? I was like, because you have a lot of things, right? You've got your picks and you've got a couple of young players and you've got a lot of contracts. Although that Pernal number. I just never, over the summer, I awarded it my unofficial, most inexplicable contract of the summer. You know what, hey guys, you know what we should do? Jakob Pernal can be a free agent in like three years. We got to get ahead of that Like 31 year old center who can't shoot free throws Like we got to get How about like 30 mil For the three years after we can we get ahead of that now It's never been It's the rare that you look at the cap sheet And he still has two years left of his Other contract Yeah Toronto Cleveland I've mentioned this has to be mentioned That Evan Mobley could be the best player Yeah The Bucks could get for Giannis I still don't think Cleveland is doing that, even in the wake of this hard injury. Yeah, like Philly. I was watching Philly last night, and I'm like, Milwaukee would love a VJ Edgecomb, but I don't see Philly doing that. I think Philly has to continue. You could not get carried away with Embiid's last 20 games. And forget the Paul George suspension, which I talked about, should reinforce this even more. Everything you do should be on the Maxi Edgecomb timetable now. Everything you do. I even played around with Boston. Like, would Boston dare do, like, a Jalen Brown for Giannis kind of concept? And I don't see that happening either. So we'll see. The one thing, like, I mean, listen, he is a terrific player. But you talk to teams, and listen, it's not AD level for the extent. Like, AD is like, oh, I don't know what I want to pay him. It's a big number, you know? I mean, the Giannis extension is a big number, and he's 31, and it's, you know, you're basically, what are you paying, like $70 million a year almost? That is a big commitment, and you better make sure that you've got some other things left on your roster. That's why I'm saying, like, this season, as brief as there is left, should not be a throwaway, ideally, for any team of player and Giannis. And yet I can't really find a team that could get Giannis in season right now. And maybe other than Minnesota, which seems a long shot to me, and New York, which seems a long shot to me. Like, I don't think Golden State gets Giannis in there a title contender. Certainly Atlanta, Miami, some of the teams we've talked about get Giannis. I don't see them as like. Listen, I mean, I've talked about it. The Golden State stuff is probably the cleanest, right? Sure. Just like, hey, pick what you want outside of Curry, right? Like, here you go. You want Butler and Kaminga. You want Green and Kaminga. You want Moody. You want Pods. You want the four first. But, man. It puts them in the odd position, Golden State, of arguing for the value of their future first-round picks by admitting that they could be bad in five years. They go to Milwaukee and say, hey, our picks could be valuable because if you looked at the age of our roster, man, we might suck. Bet against us. Give us Giannis. It reminds me of like when the Harden to Cleveland stuff started happening last night. I saw this a little bit on social media, and I remember thinking it at the time he got traded to the Clippers and reading it at the time he got traded to the Clippers. Harden gets put on a superior perimeter player, ball handler's team. Donovan Mitchell in this case, Kawhi Leonard in the Clippers case. And you start to talk yourself into very bizarre and mind-bending, contradictory things like, well, you know, Harden, this could work because, yeah, Harden's not going to be the guy who wins the big game for you, but he can help get you there because of his regular season durability. And then if you can have another guy who can pick up the slack when Harden shits the bed in a big game, that's an ideal thing. and you start to be like, wait, are his weaknesses almost being spun into, like, puzzle piece-fitting strengths because Kawhi's here and Dinovan Mitchell? Where's my brain going with this anyway? Yeah, the Warriors, it is the cleanest. It's essentially four picks because it's top 20 with the other one. So it's, like, basically four first-round picks. That's a lot of picks. They have swaps. They're going to give us some swaps, too. I mean, Milwaukee's already swapped out their stuff, so you're going to swap in on swaps, right? And Draymond? Is Draymond in play? So Anthony Slater, I think, reported. I mean, Draymond has to be in play. If you're kidding, keep Butler and getting a big guy like this, Draymond's got to be in play. He has to be. I mean, I think if I was Golden State, I would – because it's – if you have Draymond and Kaminga, that gets you to 51, and then you're adding. I would love to try to get something else back with Giannis, right? Like, can I get – Turner's a big number, man. You know, some portal. That's what never made sense about – But now I'm going, it's punchy. It's 10 o'clock now, Easter time. I'm getting punchy. The Dame stretch, wave and stretch thing. I understand why, right? Like there's two parts. There's two parts to this. I understand the why part because he was out. And really that was their like last like card in the, you know, like last card they had. Okay. So I understand why. I didn't understand if you're going to, that, the, the who, right? Like the who they were using it on and basically using it all on one person. Like similar to on a much less damaging scale, the opening the door to thinking about trading Luca, totally explicable in the eyes of at least some executives around the league from the Mavericks perspective. dealing him for one specific player who's older and more injury your opponent and not opening it up to the entire league not explicable yeah miles turner just isn't that good like he's fine he's just fine he's not changing your life as a player he's better than like what indiana has left over he's fine he's a league average starting center who theoretically fits with the honest it's not worth all of that by the way on the warriors i i think like should we just start asking the question like is Steve Kerr going to coach the Warriors next year? Yeah. I mean, that's the other thing. I mean, that's – listen, it's as is you are – you've got one year left on three guys. Maybe Giannis would reinvigorate all that stuff. But, I mean, he does not have a contract. No extension has been given, and we're 50 games into the season. And Draymond might go, and who the hell knows. Well, we got 40 – we got, I don't know, 41, 40 more hours, something like that. it's all quiet right now at 10 o'clock, but you just, you can't go to sleep. No, Bobby can't go to sleep. You know, the beauty of being out West right now is that's probably one of the perks as far as, you know, when everyone goes to sleep, you're still up at midnight, man. Pacific Pacific time is unbelievable. It is. I was out there last week. It's underrated. I could be done watching games at eight o'clock. I was out at the hotel outdoor pool cafe, making calls and sending texts and it's five degrees and there's a fucking foot of snow on the ground where I live. Pacific time is where it's at, man. You can go have dinner now. Yeah. It's on the radio. I miss you. Seven o'clock. I'm going to go get some pizza. I miss you, Bobby Marks. It's wonderful to see you. And I'm telling you right now, when the season gets rolling, you're coming on Mets corner. That's right. Expecting big things this year. It's a much more pleasant place than Jets corner, I would imagine. Oh, geez. Watching my former first-round pick playing the Super Bowl on Sunday. Seahawks, right? M. Darnold. Is the world cheering for the Seahawks? Does everyone still hate the Patriots? We got a Marist guy on Seattle there, Zach, our kicker. Their kicker is Jason Myers, Marist College. Maybe it'll all come down to him. Bobby Marks, you're going to be, I assume, on ESPN all day, every day. for the next 48 hours. If you don't see me, call the police. Bobby Marks, thank you, sir. Thank you, buddy. All right. What a day. Great NBA day. So much stuff going on. And there'll be more. We've got a couple more days before the trade deadline. We'll be back after the trade deadline for yet another episode of the Zach Lowe Show. Thank you tonight to Bobby Marks, the great Bobby Marks. Thanks to Mike, Jonathan, and Billy on production. Thanks to you all for listening to and watching the Zach Lowe Show. We'll see you soon. Stay tuned. 21 or over in President Select States for Kansas in affiliation with Kansas Star Casino or 18 and over in President D.C., Kentucky, Wyoming. Gambling problem? Call 1-800-GAMBLER or visit rg-help.com. Call 1-888-789-7777 or visit ccpg.org slash chat in Connecticut or visit mdgamblinghelp.org in Maryland. Hope is here. visit gamblinghelplinema.org or call 800-327-5050 for 24-7 support in Massachusetts or call 1-877-8HOPE-NY or text HOPE-NY in New York. For Louisiana, call 1-877-770-7867.