He Built a $1M App Empire With No Investors, No Degree & No Permission

I have two apps that are in the top 1% of all of the apps on the App Store and they're gospel based out. That's crazy. When I first launched it, I had people calling me a witch and a warlock and they were like, this is witchcraft. Now you're empowering the gospel all over the US or the world probably. Oh yeah. A lot of people have app ideas. A lot of people have business ideas. I want them to make money too. I don't want to be the only one. So if someone's listening and they're thinking, I want to learn how to build an app, do an app, give them the thing you would have wished you knew in advance. The thing I wish I knew in advance is. What it is, Brad Lee back again with another episode of Drop Bumps today in the studio, folks, I got a real treat for you. Carlton C. Dubb Whitfield. What's cracking? Hey, I'm here. Glad to be here. Folks, you guys are going to love this dude. You can follow him at C. Dubb World on Instagram. He's also got several Instagram handles all throw out from time to time. But your main one, C. Dubb World. Yeah. And this dude is really a musician, man of God, grew up with a pastor for a dad. And basically, I don't want to say accidentally, but accidentally screwed around and got successful by creating technology that assists in like church music, mainly. Correct. And that's where it began. Yeah. I mean, yeah, yeah. Started out, you know, of course, in church as a musician, five years old, just watching my dad play and it just grew from there. Yeah. What kind of church? Church of God in Christ. So that's the that's the denomination church of God in Christ. We call it Kojic, you know? Yeah. Now, were your dad strict as a pastor? Yes. Were you always in church? I mean, was it like, look, I tell people by the time I was 18, I've been in so many church services, I could have took the rest of my life off from going to church. Like if my dad would run revivals 30 day straight, 30 days straight, a revival and then get to the end of the revival and be like, God, I said another 30 days. And we were every day after school, we had to go set up chairs under a tent every day. Like that's yeah. But I mean, what do you think that did for your upbringing? Definitely kept me out of trouble. For sure. It definitely instills some some very important core values in me. And then, of course, you know, everybody in my town's small town, so everybody knew my dad. So I couldn't do certain things. It was just they wouldn't let me do it. Like I couldn't say certain things, couldn't go certain places. No, no, no, you know, dad's pastor, you appreciate a kid. So, you know, I felt sheltered and, you know, like an outcast for the most part. But I'm appreciative of it now because a lot of those same people that wouldn't let me do things, they can't do things now because they're in jail. So. 100 percent. So I can say 100 percent is always a good thing when you look back. So you are a music. You are a music tech entrepreneur, app founder and creative strategist who has built a multi app ecosystem, serving musicians, churches and creators worldwide. He is the founder of loops by C dub scale, junkie hoop triggers, which, by the way, if you look that up, that's with a W H O O P. And the what's your take platform known for blending creativity, technology and community altogether. C dub focuses on building scalable systems that empower creators to win outside traditional industry models. So, dude, let's talk about like how it all began because you grew up as a pastor's kid, you guys weren't loaded. Were you? Absolutely not. OK, so so you eventually became a musician at what age? Yeah, I started at five and I didn't really get serious about playing until I was in high school, which, of course, you know, I was in my mind. I was an NBA player, you know, about to go to the NBA, you know, the skill level wasn't there, but my mind was there. But I was also a musician and I remember the practices and the rehearsals, you know, the practices for the team and rehearsals were colliding. And my dad was like, look, you got to choose one. You know, we can't do sports and music. You know, what's going to be? And so I chose to go with music. And that's when my professional career started around, I would say, 15 or 16 years old. What instrument? Keyboard and piano. Yeah. So I thought this was for drums. I mean, you know, my brother was a drummer and I can play the drums. That's just not my main instrument. So you're better on piano. Definitely. So your YouTube channel has you playing piano. Oh, yeah. Yeah. And what's the difference between keyboards and piano? Um, let's see how to say this. With the piano, of course, it's one sound. There's a certain technique to just playing the piano keyboard. You know, you have to have when playing a keyboard, you got to know how every instrument sounds because you can change it to a bass and you have to know how to play like a bass player. You know, you can change it to a guitar patch and you have to know how to move like a guitar player. Piano is just piano organ. Same thing. It's a whole different instrument, whole different technique. Thank God I can play all three. But is it true that if you can play keyboards, you can play piano? To a degree. Yeah. Is it true? If you play a piano, you can play keyboards to a degree. It just depends. I mean, there are the piano sound on the keyboard. So yeah. And then they make keyboards that are that feel like a piano. So yeah. But when you get to production wise and and digging into all other different types of sounds, it's a whole other world and a whole another learning curve to just transition from piano to a keyboard. And plus, you know, going from a keyboard to a piano, there are luxuries like transposing when you can't play in all of your keys. You could just do and make whatever key you do play in the key of the song versus on a piano. You have to know your keys. You have to know them all or else you just get embarrassed at some point. Well, as a non musician, if my child wants to start playing piano, should I just say, no, you do keyboards? Because you would think keyboards is the one that will allow you to do make more different kinds of music than just a piano. So like piano would be almost like single faceted. And if they learn keyboards, they'll get piano, but they'll also get all this other stuff. That's fair to say. I would say I was definitely say start with a keyboard instead of a piano, a it's going to be cheaper. And and yeah, you can learn to play the piano on a keyboard. So you'll get the best of both worlds that way. Yeah, that's what I did. I bought her some keyboards. That's keyboards. Well, a keyboard, you know. But when I was a kid, you know, they told me to take music in school and my dumb ass chose to trumpet. OK, I did, too. Yeah, well, that didn't work too well. For me either. Yeah, nothing. No one no one no one loved to keep trumpet players. There was no famous trumpet player except one Chuck Mangione. All right. And so I then I decided, well, let me do saxophone. But by that time, I wasn't I wasn't interested in music. I wish I'd have just stuck with guitar or piano, because nothing's cooler than if you walk into a party and there's a piano sitting there and you can sit down and that's start start ripping some cool music out. I got to agree with you on that. All right, so OK, so you're you're playing keyboards. You're in your church all day. You're obviously in the band. Yeah, it was just me and my brother. That's it. That's it. Yeah, just us two. And what the whole church sings with you, though. Yeah, yeah. Can you sing to? I mean, you know. I don't claim to be a singer, but if it has to happen, you know, I can I can push out a few notes if I have to. So what were your aspirations to become a famous musician or? Well, yeah, once I got, you know, seriously, I wanted I wanted to really dig into performance. I wanted to be on tours, you know, you know, right hit songs, all that kind of good stuff. That was the goal. That was that was where my mind was headed. I was not trying to be a tech founder at all. But here you are. Yeah. And it took a minute for me to actually accept it. I would fight it for a while because I didn't want to do this. You know, this is not what I wanted to do. Why? I just didn't want to. Like it wasn't when we moved to Atlanta. Yeah, the goal was to like make it big in the music industry, you know. And I remember just just having to put that dream on a back burner to make this happen, because I knew this was what I was supposed to do. It just wasn't what I wanted to do. New you were supposed to because of what? Got a tellin' ya or just, you know, you just had that intuition and that gut feeling like, like this is this is what I'm supposed to be doing. That's one thing about me is that I've always listened to my gut even when I didn't want to and maybe not right off the bat. But eventually I always am always like people always think, man, you're crazy. Like you're doing this and this. Yeah, I'm doing these things so I can so I won't have the regrets. But I know what I'm supposed to do and I'm always going to come back and do this. People would call that intuition. I mean, for me, I would say just gut feeling or just listening to God. You give you say that that's what it is at the end of the day. What you got is God. You know, see that I knew you were going to go there. Well, because I mean, I always wonder the same thing. I feel I feel like that is what that is. Yeah, because I always tell people, you know, trust your gut, trust your intuition. Because I think most of us, we have it. We just don't listen to it. And a lot of us don't listen to it because we don't trust ourselves, et cetera, et cetera. But I've always wondered like, is that God talking? I say yes. Yeah, I say it is. Then everybody should start listening to their gut. Everybody should, but they don't. So so I'm trying to paint the picture. So you're not rich or anything. You're just sitting there. You're good. You're good at the keyboards. You're playing at the church all the time. And that's what happens. There's some machine that broke. So, yeah, that's the first thing that happened. So I moved to Atlanta and I started playing for a very prestigious bishop here in the in the area, Bishop Paul Morton. And we had this NPC that we would run drum loops that we would play with while we were in the band. And one day the drum machine wouldn't come on. Well, actually it came on, but the screen was blue. We couldn't even navigate it, you know? And once you're using drum loops, you can't stop. Like it's just part of the band, right? And so I was like, all right, don't worry, y'all. I can make them at home. I bring them. I plan for my computer. And that's what I did. We just so how did you make them, though? Just production software, you know, using like GarageBand, Logic, Pro Tools. I would create the loops to the songs that we were doing that Sunday. And then our church did so many songs. Like we did like 10 songs, 11 songs a week. We had to learn. And so over two months, three months, I had so many drum loops. And I'm like, man, like, what if I sold these? Like, what if I made these available to my musician following? I wonder if they were bound. So I remember it was cold, it was in the wintertime. I went outside. I got my phone. I snapped a picture like this. And I got on my computer. I will, but I don't even don't even have I will have any more on thing. But and I just put that picture on there. I found a HTML MP3 player that I could sell MP3s from for 1990, not a month. And I uploaded my loops to it. I put that picture, the MP3 player. I said, Luke's by C-dub. And then on that Saturday night, I posted it on my page. I said, Hey, anybody wants some drum loops? Have some available for 99 cents. Like I like 50 on the site right now. And that Sunday morning, I sold like five, six dollars worth of loops. And I was like, Oh my God. Like this, it actually worked, you know? Now some people would probably look at that and it's like only five or six dollars. But I was like, this is five dollars. First of all, this is gas money for me. Back then it was actually something, you know? And then second of all, it's like this came on a website from a product that I made one time that I could sell again next week, you know? And yeah, every week, more and more people would learn about it. And it just kept growing. And it really, really grew. And I was like, wow, I would never have thought. And it was at that moment, I'm like, OK, I got to figure out something because this makes way more sense than trying to gig every week. And make that 200, $300 from a gig. Like I could put more energy and time into this and really make something out of this. And so that's when I started feeling like, I feel like I should maybe pull away from, you know, from performance so much and kind of concentrate on this. And thankfully I did. So are the drum loops something that anyone can use because they all like, this is the loop for this song, this is the loop for this song? Yeah, I mean, you know, I specifically catered them to the songs that musicians play every Sunday. That way they don't have to make them. And it's already conforms to the tempo of the song. So it's like perfectly ready to go. And so all I have to do is just create a playlist. But also you could use the drum loop for any other situation. If you alter it, alter the tempo, however you want to. But basically it was made for specifically the church. And it's expanded now to even secular and people using on corporate gigs and all kind of stuff like that. But so what was the what was the machine that broke? It was a Kaya MPC. Yeah. So had that machine not broke, you may never have done this. Yeah. Yeah. That's true. And now your app is like more popular than the machines. Did the manufacturer of the machine ever reach out? I mean, they did on one of my posts because I was kind of like. I kind of hit it with a bat, you know, that's that's all in the story. But they just they just they just posted the eyes like, OK, we see. But it's all fun again. It's just me being crazy. But no, they never reached out in any way to like partner with me or anything like that. But have they tried to emulate what you did? Because if I can just download your your track, why do I need the machine? Did the machine allow you to make them and store them? Or did the machine have them already? No, you could you didn't have them already. You have to actually produce on this machine. So you make them and then it'll store it so you can play it whenever you want. Right. And all you did is went and made a thousand so they don't need to make them. Well, yeah, what's for like, why would you waste your time doing that? You know, I already did it for you. Four thousand drum loops and counting. So, yeah, are you drum looping every day? Well, I have a team for that now. At one point, though, yeah, I was. Because I'd be just manufacturing. Because I mean, if you get the the the sounds like you cornered the market, like if now someone wants to enter it, it's like you already got them all. Yeah. Or is it creative difference where like if someone else did it, their drum loops would also fit, but they're different. Yeah. I mean, they're going to have their span on it. But at the end of the day, is it like being a DJ? I wouldn't say like being a DJ. It's just it's all about, you know, production skills at this point. Like anybody could could make a loop, but you wanted to fit with the song. You wanted to to jail with the band. Like it's it's more to it than just a shaker in a, you know, triangle. Like the sound selection matters a lot, too. So so for all the people listening that go to church every Sunday, how many people do you think are listening to your loops that they just don't realize came from you? Oh, yeah. It's if you hear a drum loop in church, I'm going to say it's more than likely yours. Is I remember when I was when I was traveling with this bishop, he traveled at least three days, three days out of the week, every week. He was somewhere preaching and I would go out with him. And I can't tell you every I can honestly say every single church I went to every time I walk in and they be using my app. I'm just like, that's what I want. Like they know you were you. Sometimes they did and sometimes they didn't put two and two together. But after a minute, they were like, wow, like this seat up seat over here. You know, so yeah, that made me feel real good. And then I feel like when that happens, I'm doing my job. Like, like, yeah. All right. So now you're empowering the gospel all over the US or the world. Probably. Oh, yeah. Yeah. And then and then where from there? Because what is a hoop? So the hoop triggers. Yeah. So so this came actually from a place where I felt actually guilty for leaving my dad's church because when I left being from a small town, there weren't no musicians there. So when I came to Atlanta, he was like, son, you know, you don't have any musicians like can you send me something? You know, so I would send them tracks. I even had them with the drum loops and all that kind of stuff. And he was like, but what I do when I'm preaching? Like, I don't have anything like nothing, nobody to back me up. I'm like, OK, I'm going to figure out something. And I remember telling the minister of music at the church where I was at. I'm like, coming soon one day, I'm going to have some type. It was going to be like a button on the podium where a preacher can just do that. And it'll play, you know, the band. And he kind of laughed at me, but he knew I was telling I was serious. And I just went to work trying to figure out how to how to how to make this product for my dad, it wasn't even supposed to be for anybody else. It was just for him. I was just trying to do it for him. And I went to work and I got my developers together and it worked for him. And I'm like, OK. Same thing, like maybe some other people can use this. But I was I was really scared on this one because I knew it was controversial. And I knew it could be taken as a joke, too. And I knew, like I would get some threats. Like I already knew this already knew what was coming. Right. Well, you got it. You got to bring me up to speed on on these church dramas. Yeah. Why is it controversial? I mean, first of all, you have an app that can that can do what a musician can do. So automatically, the musicians are like, you're taking our jobs. Right. Oh, I got you. Yeah. And then you have the spiritual side of it, you know, because the musician is playing behind the pastor. It's supposed to be anointed, right? So now they like, well, the app can't be anointed. So, you know, it's all kind of stuff. And then so when I first launched it, man, like I had I had literally had. Hey, I had people calling me a witch and a warlock. And they were like, this is witchcraft. You shouldn't be putting that kind of music into an app to do that. You know, I was just like, really? And it was bad, but it was good. Well, it makes no sense to me. Like, dude, you're just making things easier. I mean, I think a lot of it was just people were just mad that they didn't come up with the idea or you're making a mob salute. I mean, well, then they got more time to to worship. It's not like I mean, I felt like the app wouldn't replace a musician. It wasn't meant to replace a musician. I would say it was just meant I come from a place where churches just don't have musicians. It was meant to provide a musician. Yeah. Yeah. I like that. Yeah. Let's start saying that one. Yeah, because I mean, your dad didn't have one. Right. Right. You know, you're busy. So you're like, here, that's better. No musician. Yeah. But then it turned out to be better than a musician. Hey, I'm going to tell you when I'm going to say what really like skyrocketed is when the pandemic happened. It was like that's when everybody opened their eyes and was like, oh, we need this because now, you know, first of all, the budget went down. Second of all, people weren't coming to church. So people don't come to church. The musicians musicians not, you know, losing their job just over the pandemic alone. So they need something or either everybody was streaming. And this was like the perfect streaming companion left to be able to just use the music from the app. It was to the point where I even put I even put voices on the app to emulate people being in church because we had all these people streaming and it was just dead silent. Like so. So you had in a hallelujah. Yeah, I did. Praise God. I did. Yeah. So and it's all a soundtrack, basically. So what is a hoop trigger? So I'm a priest, I'm a pastor and I press the button and music begins. Now do I start preaching? Well, it's more like you start preaching first. So I say, I'm telling you folks come and then I press the button and it's like background music, right? Right. And it like makes it come alive. So it's a preacher's like the Lord said, yeah, you know, that there be like, and so this music happening in between the phrases. Do they have to practice or did it go off some sort of voice recognition? So because that that might be your next move where you press it. It's listening because I can listen now. Oh, I didn't tell you what. Oh, OK, I didn't tell you that. Yeah, see here because that's that is the next move. Yeah, I'm an idea guy myself. That is that's exactly what's happening next. So to me, so like based on what I'm saying, it'll it'll automatically select the right or whatever. Exactly. Sound effect I want. Yeah, we got it based on what I'm saying. So if I talk about folks, open up your books to revelation. Dun dun dun dun. You know what I mean? Like that's into the world shit right there. That's exactly what's happening. And we call it auto hoop auto hoop. Yeah. Auto hoop. So so which one's more popular? The the drum tracks or the hoop triggers? It's funny because people, even though the drum loop app came out first, most people know me from the hoop triggers app. They don't realize they both are like running neck and neck like seriously. I was I would even really say the loops app is even really more popular. But the and the loops apps for the for the band, the musicians and the and the hoop triggers is for the pastor without the musicians. Exactly. So but if they have musicians, I wouldn't have a hoop trigger because my band basically fills in. I've seen them use it with matter of fact, I've seen some pastors use it. Even mega churches to have musicians. Sometimes there's one church that the past the musicians have to leave one location and go to the other location. And they so all this time they've been without music for like the last 20 minutes of service. So they use the app to replace the musicians as leaving while they're going and the congregation can't even tell. Like it's crazy. And it's cheap. It's not even expensive. Yeah. So you save a ton of dough, which I think, again, some of these churches, I, you know, I question. You know, people think because it's a church, it must be proper and holy and perfect when in reality, some of these people, you know, you're donating that money to the church thinking it's going to good things and it's going to things that like jets. Yeah. You think you're feeding the homeless and you're feeding the pastor. Yeah. He's like, Brad, you can't say that. Well, I'm not saying all churches. Obviously, there's some good people and there's some bad people. But I just because they're a church doesn't make doesn't make them good. Yeah, I've seen it with my own eyes. Now, are you constantly thinking about how to make more? Are you done with the churches? There are times when I'm like, is it? But what else is there? And then next thing you know, you replete or you replace the pastor. You know, we got to outfit now. I say, no, I think I don't know. It's a passion of mine and I just want to make sure I always I feel like this. I feel like it's my it's my purpose in life to make sure that. The church. Stays relevant in tech. I do. I feel like especially the black church, we've been behind on tech. For you, we're always like, what's tech? Tech. Oh, yeah. Yeah, tech. I feel like we're I feel like we're we're like we've been like 20. It's a tech. No, like 20 years, 10, 15 years behind. And now I feel like for the first time, we're like. Yeah, we're on track. And I want to I want to I want to keep that. Like I feel like if it doesn't happen, it's my fault. That's what I feel. You should put an app together that that. Ultimately allows people to throw money in the basket without the basket. You know what I mean? It's like when that basket comes around and someone grabs it and goes like this, no one's watching. But if but if but if you have some sort of app with like geofencing, you'll know who. Right. You didn't. Another one would be like you call the app like, you know, sermon. Where if the pastor doesn't really know what he's going to talk about today, he opens up the app, right? Types in what he want, you know, problems, you know, he puts in worldly problems. And then the AI app says, here's the perfect sermon in your persona with your voice. And basically just spits out the whole sermon right in front of him. We're now all he has to do is go to church, press a few buttons, bang. And there's a whole look at that quality, you know, scripture based 100% server right. That would be so controversial. But who would know? Call it sermon on the mount. Sermon on the mount. Hey, that could work. Because if you had if I had that app, I might use Star Preacher. Yeah. You would you use that? 100%. Yeah, I'd use it. I go do them one at a time right now. If someone just said, hey, Brad, we want you to come be a guest pastor this Sunday. This Sunday only. First of all, I'd go to my chat and I'd create a little chat or a language model strictly on obviously scripture. Right. And then I would type in something that I want to preach, like for example, his name. Oh, oh, yeah. And maybe what I think the power in the name is. So the congregation leaves with a seed on his name. And if you and I know, you know what I'm talking about. Who we already talked about it. But and anyone who follows me for a long time knows that what I'm talking about his name ain't Jesus folks. And then again, because there's so much controversy with that. So like I would, I would go to chat and I would type in and I'd say, OK, I want to create. I just I'd use AI to build my sermon. And then when I and then when I got up there, I would either have notes like this, which I need big font. So I don't have to wear my readers, but it would be cool if I had a little app that I could just set up and it would scroll with me here, might hear me talk and knows how fast the teleprompter should move right on the phone. Right. Because you can build some cool things now. So you have developers elsewhere. Do you have like a whole team of developers that are on the standby? Yep. How hard is it to create an app and sell it on the iTunes app store? It is very, very difficult. I would say it's harder than writing a hit song. It's it's a long process. And if you don't know what you're doing, you don't have somebody to guide you. You will spend and waste so much money with like I did. Thankfully, now I got the formula down and I know what to do. But it took a while. It took me. I mean, I have a team of developers now of about five or six. And it took me going through about 60 to get that five or six. Yeah, good people, hard to find. Yeah, yeah, trusting. Yeah. And now just to be able to say, like it's crazy. It's just like one point nine million apps on the app store. Just that is. I thought there was way more. Yes, it's somewhere close to two million. Right. And these two apps, I have two apps that are in the top one percent of all of the apps on the app store. And they're in their gospel based out. That's crazy. Like awesome, though. Yeah, like this business owners. Listen up. If your business needs more money and it will, banks aren't built to move quick. They make you fill out a ton of paperwork, wait for a decision. And by that time, the opportunity is passed. So if you want bank rates without bank delays, you need to check out Cardiff. Cardiff's been helping businesses get same day funding for over 20 years. We're talking up to five hundred thousand dollars approved and funded, quicker and easier than big banks. You can apply online in under two minutes and get funded as fast as the same day. So whether you need quick money to bridge a gap or do more marketing, get some equipment or hire more people, I'm telling you, apply today at Cardiff.co forward slash Brad. Stop letting slow money cost you opportunities that move fast. There's no impact on your personal credit. So apply now at Cardiff.co forward slash Brad. Subject to approval terms and rates vary. Cardiff, borrow better. So do you ever just throw some out there to see if they hit? I have and. Yeah, they didn't hit yet. But I think I know why. And I know where I need to pivot and change and stuff. But pretty when I get a pretty good idea, like I knew I knew who triggers is going to be a. Be a kid and loops came out of surprise. I didn't know. But now I kind of see what people like. And I see who my my following is, my audience. So now I know how to move. Yeah, I know how to move better. Yeah, I'm sitting here trying to think up ideas now. Especially when you got a dev team, because remember when the iPhone came out and there was the whole thing called the eye, the app store? I remember like it was yesterday. And I'm like, man, anyone can make an app, put it in that app store and sell it to millions of people. It's crazy. Like I started thinking app ideas, app ideas. I thought of one where I called it I would, which basically was because everything was iPhone. I this for you know, I would so I would was spelled I W O U L D. OK, I would. OK. And it's essentially what now people call. What's the one where you're scrolling for for girls? Oh, like Tinder or Tinder, Bumble, whatever, whatever the apps are, because I've never I've been married. So I've never been on one of those apps, but they tell me you just you're just swiping. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And when you see one you like, you know, there you go. Right. If you like swipe left, if you don't. Yeah. So my so my concept was, you know, a bunch of girls upload their profiles and a bunch of dudes upload their profiles. And then you would just basically you're going through it, determining which one you you would date. You know, I would, I'd date her. Right. I would, I would. And then they do the same thing. And whenever there was a match, it would shoot out each other's contact and say, hey, right, apparently you both would. Right. Right. And that's what you were looking for. So you just go through and say which ones you would and which ones you wouldn't. And then they do it. And if you match, boom, they sent you their contact info. Never did anything with it. Why? Because I didn't understand how to build an app. Didn't know any developers. How did you go from a musician to a tech founder building apps? So you had to know somebody or you made some phone call. You didn't do it yourself. Did you? Right. No, I did not. And yeah, when I had my loops, a website selling my my loops and stuff like that. My loops by Cedar website. One of my friends who who was just getting into the app game. He was like, you need to make this an app. Like you have to make this website an app. And I told him, I don't know. I don't know anything about that. And after a year, he was like, look, if you don't make this an app, I'm going to do it and I'm going to sell it to you. And I was like, OK, so he helped me get into the game. And and the first place we ran to look for developers was of work, you know, like a free freelance site. And of course, you know, on there, every developer is going to tell you they can do exactly what it is that you want them to be able to do. Oh, we specialize in that. Oh, that's exactly what we do. You know, and so I kind of got sucked into that. And so I came out with my first app and it was so buggy. It was so underdeveloped. Like all Apple had to do was just come out with one update and it was just destroyed me. But it worked enough to get to the point to build up enough money to seek out higher level developers. And I'm learning now, you know, when you look for developers, you got to put them through tests, you know, you can't just take their word for it. At one point, I was looking for a new developer after I had my loose app and he was showing me his portfolio, everything he had done. And guess who guess who's out? He did. Who mine? That was in his portfolio. Oh, but yeah, I produce. No, he didn't. He came to me telling me, oh, this is one app that we did. And it was my app. Come like, first of all, you didn't even do your research. And second of all, like, just lie. Like, it's crazy. Yeah, people do that to me because they'll they'll hit me up in my DMs talking about, hey, let me help you with your social media. Oh, yeah. Hey, I see that you got a great account, but not much engagement. And yadda, yadda, yadda. And they'll always ask me, hey, can I run your social media? And I've had a few people say, you know, we've helped this person, this person, this person and this person. And one of those people were me. And not only that. And not only that, the other people they they named, I know. So I'm like, hey, dude, you didn't do this guy because that's me. All right. And secondly, you probably didn't do these guys enough. And I can call them to verify and then nothing in silence. And of course they have 50 followers. Yeah. You know. So so where are you going from here? What's your thoughts now? Because now you got successful apps, you're making money. You don't really have to do anything. What do you want to do? What's your vision? I was God telling you what your gut telling you. My gut now is telling me to teach people how to do what I did. I feel like I'm one of those people. I don't. I don't get a kick out of being successful in silent. You know, I know some people they teach they all for that, you know, you know, moving solid. Yeah, I understand that to a degree. But for me. You know, where I came from, there is no way I would be doing what I'm doing had I not seen what was possible and seen like like someone show me this is possible. And I feel like that's my next thing. I want to be able to to inspire people and teach people and expose people to. To the ways of doing things that they just never would have seen. And a lot of people have app ideas. A lot of people have business ideas. I want to be able to help them, you know, cultivate those ideas. And I want them to make money, too. I don't want to be the only one. That's just me. I'm a giver at heart. So I can't I just can't be successful by myself. So if someone's listening to this, they got some app ideas. Can they shoot them over to you? Of course. DM. Well, I wouldn't do it like that. Well, how would how would they do it? I always tell people I have a lot of ideas and a lot of a lot of times people hit me up with ideas I already have and then it was swearing up and down. It's there. Yeah, it's like, no, man. I thought this way before. But you could definitely send me an email and I'm more than willing to do an NDA, but you just have to understand who you're dealing with. Like, I know like people have app ideas. I do, too. And so I'm not stealing anybody's idea, but at the same time, I have ideas. So yeah, that happens all the time. Yeah, people say, Brad, you want me to tell you something? You you'll make millions and I'll be like, what? And they're telling me something of our own. I'm either already doing or already thought about doing. Yeah. And not only that, do you know that NDAs aren't really worth anything? I mean, it makes them feel better. I guess they don't do anything. Yeah. I mean, I've signed a million NDAs and I've never, I mean, when I sign an NDA, I guarantee you I won't do your idea, right? Which is why I wouldn't sign NDAs blindly. Why? Well, because do what if I'm already doing it? What if I'm thinking about doing it? So I don't want to hear your idea. Yeah. So that's why you don't want everyone shooting you over. Yeah, that's true. Yeah, you got a point. I like to say, listen, what's the idea regarding? Give me a brief idea of what it is. And if it's nothing anywhere near what I do, then I'd be happy to sign your NDA and listen. But NDAs aren't worth anything generally. Because as soon as as soon as like, unless it's done exactly correct and you're following it to a T, they're really not enforceable. Because like, how do you know I said it? How do you know? Right. You know what I mean? Yeah, no. You're basically saying that I'm not going to disclose anything to anybody. Well, how do I find out from my lawyer? How do I find out from my team? If it's, how do I do anything if I can't tell anybody? Right. So I've seen a lot of those NDAs get thrown right out of court because they're just not enforceable. Most of them. Yeah. When they're when they're written, people get them off the template website. Right. Yeah. Do you even do you even want people to sign them anymore? You know, as far as my ideas, yeah, it makes me feel good. Yeah, when they do. Have you ever enforced one? Have I ever had to enforce one? I thought I was going to have to, but it ended up I didn't. But I thought I was going to have to go that route. So if someone's listening and they're thinking, OK, I want to learn how to build an app, do an app, give them the like the the thing you would have wished you knew in advance. The thing I wish I knew in advance is. When I started, I wish I had thoroughly. Wrote down my feature list that I wanted in my app. Like everything that I could possibly think of that I wanted and then stuck to it and don't add anything because that's where. The time gets like out of hand and the money when you you're like, OK, I want this, this, this and this. All right. They say, oh, yeah, we can do that. That's going to be 10 K. And then you get in there. Oh, wait. Oh, we had that. We had man, we got to do this. OK, yeah, we can do that. Yeah, that's it. We may take us four more weeks. But yeah, another five K. Oh, but see now this app has and you just keep doing that over and over again. You have to just get a set MVP and just leave it. And that's it. And that's what I help you, you know, actually finish. You can reiterate later. Yeah. Yeah. What about what about average cost? Because I imagine when you start looking for developers, they're going to retell you. Yeah. I mean, the developer always say, honestly, when a developer can give you a cost like an actual, we can do this for. If it's if it's under 50 grand, don't even don't pay no attention to it. If they say, yeah, we can do that for like 12 15. No, it's not happening. What about AI now that basically can build apps faster than app developers? You can. Certain apps. Yeah. I'm I'm working with that as well. But then it just just depends on the type of app, like with audio apps, you know, like what I do, it's very difficult. Probably a year for now. It probably won't be. You probably just put a prompt and it's just done. I don't know. But that's a good route to try to at least start because you'll learn. You'll learn how development works versus just taking somebody's word for you'll learn the term the terminologies. The the the frameworks, all that kind of stuff. And you won't just be so blind when talking to the developers because yes, yeah, I went there out at first and it costs a lot of money. So this is kind of some stats. Basically, most musicians that try to build tech fail because they don't understand the business side of things. You're running four different apps successfully. What did you have to learn the hard way about going from, you know, creator to a business guy to a CEO? To fire myself. I had to fire myself first. It was hard to let go of task and responsibilities. When I first started, I wanted to do it all myself. But when I learned to trust somebody and just get myself out of the way, that's when I started to grow. Now you've got loops, scale junkie hoop triggers and what's your take? How do they work together? So it's all a part. They all kind of feed each other and they all, you know, the same musicians that use drum loops, right? They also practice. So I provide those musicians. Musicians scale junkies more than just just practicing the scales. I actually have real live gig music that you can learn and play to keep your skills up, right? So those musicians, they use that app. And then the same music that I put on scale junkie is also the same music that can be used in church as well. Right. So and then the part is what's your take? Now, what's your take is actually my podcast that I have. It's a music production podcast where I actually showcase music musicians and producers. They send, I send out a track. I tell everybody, hey, play whatever you think you want to be on this track. And then I go on my podcast and I listen to all the takes and I find the best takes and I measure them all together. And then we create a track that nobody would have ever had. I mean, these are musicians playing blindly that I put together, you know, at the end of an episode. Then those tracks feed the apps. Now that track is on scale junkie. You can practice to it. Or maybe we did a church track. It's on Hoop Triggers. Those people that use that app can, you know, so they all just. They all feed each other. And it's all about just empowering the musicians. It's all about giving them a platform. I love to give the musical platform that I created to them. I feel like now I just want them to. I want somebody to use it. I'm not on here trying to perform and do all kinds of stuff like that. I want to showcase other people. And so I just use what my resources I have and. Give it to them. You might want to figure out how all the musicians of the world can do something like you were just talking about and then somehow share in some sort of upside, meaning like I'll throw you my track. And if it gets used, like I get a little cut of anyone that uses that drum loop or something to where now you have this huge community of basically musicians that contribute, right? And if their stuff is popular and if their stuff is used, you cut them in. Yeah, I've actually been considering that with my Hoop Triggers out, just inviting other content creators to do just that. And like, like, collab cut. What is it called? What? Collab cut. You collab with us. If we use your shit, we cut you in. Because I mean, dude, there's a lot of starving musicians out there that are probably talented. Oh, yeah. You know, sitting in their basement, just nobody knows them. And they could like send you a track or send you something. Yeah. And then all of a sudden you can expose it to the the apps, the churches. Next thing you know, it's wildly popular. And dude, you were you were instrumental in bringing that person and their art to life to where you get a piece, obviously it's your network. But I as the musician that couldn't have done it without you, you're cutting me in somehow, even if it's a little bit. And if someone's like, screw you, that's my music. Be like, all right, well, then get it out yourself. But some sort of rev share, some sort of collab. Yeah. Because collabs, I think, help each other. Like, you know, having you on this podcast, there's a lot of people listening, never heard of you before. Right. This is this is a collab. I want to get your word out to the to the masses. There might be someone listening that that sends you something that takes you to another level. It's true. So when people get together and collab, like contribute instead of compete. Yeah. I think it creates more and I'm all about abundance. Instead of like competing, I want to add. Yeah. Because I think competing is I'm trying to take what you got. And you're trying to take what I got. Right. Which means nothing new has been created. It's just I'm taking yours or your taking mine and nothing new is created. But if we can collaborate like, hey, let's make something and share. All right. Yeah. Now we just created more and the law of abundance kicks in and I think God likes that. Mm hmm. What do you think? I 100% agree. I feel like that is definitely the next phase of what I'm I'm trying to do. I'm actually going to a conference right after this in LA. The Nam music conference. And that's my goal is to find people just to collab with and create things together. I'm not I'm not one to compete. I don't know. You know, that's just never. I mean, I can. But that's I'm more about sharing and giving. Right. So anyway, you know, we can't do it all ourselves. You know, we can't do everything ourselves. And I'm 100% open to whoever's out there. I don't know where the cameras in if you're out there. Hey, let's do it. Let's create something new. Let's let's go out. Let's figure it out. Let's create the next. Hoop triggers ultra. But whatever it's called, we're fine. The next like church choir or I don't know if the choir is your bands. But usually when I'm when I'm attending, I've attended a few black churches. When I say black church is predominantly black, but they got the best music. Yeah, they have the best time. They always have the best singers and choirs. And like there's always like, you know, 25 people up there and they're singing. Like you wouldn't believe. Yeah, there's got to be something that that has to do with that because like that's popular. Yeah. You know, the whole way is that called a choir? Yeah, it's not a band really. Choir or praise things. Not to think not to know the name for it. Yeah, where they're all wearing the robes and there's like frickin 50 people. Oh, what is choir? And they're like singing. Yeah, that's the choir. Yeah, there's one song that I forget if it even has a name. I'm sure it does, but it's like it's very dramatic, you know. Jesus is king. You don't have to. I don't think I know that. And now you got to make me look it up. It's it's it's it's a motivational song like Jesus is king or something like that. I always see that in the choirs. So are you married? Not anymore. Were you married going through this? Yes. What did that tear it apart? Because you're focused too heavily on building businesses. No, I don't know. That's not no, that didn't tear it apart. I mean, a lot of entrepreneurs go through divorce when they're building and they're you know, paying attention and then and then and then they make it and they and they sometimes regret it and sometimes they're happy about it. What are what happened with yours? While I find that song. All right. No, I don't think the entrepreneurship phase is what ended the marriage. I think, first of all, I got married very young. I was 23. I was 23 and she was 21. And I think just over time. Being both of us being from small towns and not really being exposed to all of the. Options and and and not just up to just just the the way you can do life. Like all I knew was church, you know, her dad was a pastor. We both were sheltered. And so then we moved to Atlanta and then, you know, we see the world. And from a different perspective, and we start to grow. We start you to grow together, you grow apart. I think over time, when when couples are married that young, it's easy to grow apart once you start changing. And I feel like that's that's what happened. We're still great friends today. Great co-parenting. And I feel like God uses my divorce as an example to show that it doesn't have to be a mess, you know, doesn't have to be in. I hear so many horror stories with, you know, the mother not letting the father see the kids and, you know, them fighting and all that kind of stuff. And we don't have that. And I just try to let that be an example of people to show that it doesn't have to be messy. We still we're still good friends. Our kids still, you know, have a good relationship with both of us. We both respect each other. And, you know, it's probably not something that is especially coming from the church world that makes sense to a lot of people. But I would say, you know, people sometimes talk about how they have a successful marriage. I feel like I have a successful divorce. That's almost as important. If not more important. Yeah. Yeah. I feel like I remember the lawyer was like, your kids are going to love you when they get older, the way I handled this. He was like, I don't see cases like this, you know, and I believe him. I believe him. And that's very important. That's a great point. Yeah. So, you know, now it took a minute, I will say for me personally, you know, I grew up, I mean, I feel like I was just groomed to be a husband. Like this, that's all I knew. Like I was ready to get married in high school. My mind was there already. Everything I was doing for my wife and kids, my future wife and kids, you know, this and so when the divorce actually happened, the biggest problem I had was, was my identity. Like I didn't know. I don't even know who am I not married? Like this is what I've been working towards. This is what I've been working for. This is all I know. Like we started with nothing when I say nothing. Like I pawned my music equipment just so we could have gas money to get to the little honeymoon that we were having like on the way. So it's like I lost my job three days before our wedding. Like we didn't have anything. What was the job? I was delivering. I was delivering Kodak film. That's what it was at that time. And some other driver underbid me and just knocked me out. And so three days before the wedding, nothing, you know, I didn't have money to get a photographer or anything. And one of my friends had to hire one and then she ended up taking half the pictures with the lens cap on. But that's holding the store. But yeah, that's that's that's a great freaking lesson. Successful in divorce. That's even I think almost more important. You know what I mean? Because like that's where trauma happens. And that's where kids, you know, lose it and people lose it. Yeah. Being married successfully. That's one thing. But in a lot of those quote unquote successful marriages. Listen, they're not they're not real. Like there's shit happening. Oh, yeah. There's there's cheating going on. There's stuff that nobody sees because they're successful at displaying a successful marriage. And then I'm sure that there's some good marriages as well. But not many great divorces. Yeah. Okay. Here's the song I'm talking about. Let's see. This is it. I don't that don't sound like it. Hold on. Must be a different version. No, that ain't it. Hold on. This it. No, that's not it. You don't know the song I'm talking about where it's like. Dun dun dun dun. The King of Kings. Dun dun dun dun dun dun dun dun. Oh, okay. Yeah, I know what you're saying. What's that song? I wouldn't consider that a gospel song. That's something like you see that on movies. And yeah, it's definitely gospel. He's talking about Jesus. Church ever. I've only heard it on movies. I'm trying to figure out like, you know, what what sermon I can put together and chime in that song. You know the song I'm thinking about. I do. I don't know what's called, but I know exactly what you're talking about. So so people right now can go to the app store, download these apps. They're they're obviously in their loops by C dub. If you're a musician and you want some drum loops. If you're a pastor, you want whoop triggers where basically you can be a one man band or one woman band. You ever read that scripture that says women shouldn't be pastors? Oh, man, have I heard it so many times in my life? I'm always I want to bring that up one of these days on a post. Because again, when for some reason people think I'm like a relationship guy, which is crazy because I don't have anything to do with relationships. I just give my opinion on them. And that's always one that I just saw the other day, like apparently in the scripture, it says women should not be leading a church. But yet you got your I forget her name, Joyce. Just my yeah, you got you got a lot of successful women pastors and a lot of people go to those churches. How do they reconcile that if the scripture actually says women shouldn't be pastors? They have a way. See, this is what I don't like about religion. OK, it's like everybody bends it to their own little will and favor. Yeah. So like if the scripture says women should not be pastors, if it does say that, well, then why would anyone go to a church where when God said women shouldn't be leading these things? They still go. They'll just say, oh, that's the Old Testament. And that that law was done away with and they'll figure out a way. Was it an Old Testament? I mean, I'm not don't quote me on that. I don't say that's that's the type of things they say that to justify. I'm not saying what is right or wrong. I don't honestly don't know to be honest with you. But I'm with you where it's always like two people can sit in the room that serve the same God and read the same Bible and have two totally different opinions about the same thing and have scriptures to back back it up. And experiences. How is it possible? That's what I want to know. How is it possible? Like and now I got to play this for people. So people know the song I'm talking about. I otherwise they're going to be like, what was he talking about? Is this it? No, that's Kanye West. It's definitely like Kanye. This has to be it. That. So that's not a that's not a drum loop or trigger. No, I'm not sure. You know what I mean? Yeah, I know. Interesting. Now, if you. I don't want to play it too long. They might like right say you can't do that. But but if you saw who was singing that, that is more than likely a huge choir of people. That's like a hundred plus right there. Yeah. So like that to me is your next like goal because everybody. If you don't have a choir like that at your church, you probably need one. Right. And that's the thing about it. The hoop triggers out more than just preaching. So we have praise and worship music. We have prayer music. But you'd let somebody like a pastor or a guy like me that's creative and wants to be a pastor, but doesn't have the you know, teams and musicians and dude, I could get on Sunday stream with your apps and and stuff that I can get creative with and literally put on a show in my basement with a background. And I become one of the top pastors of the planet quickly, quickly, based on based on technology, based on tech. Yeah. So if I were you, I'd be thinking, how can I empower? Because, dude, there's a lot of people out there that want to do preaching that want to, you know, bring people to the Lord, as they say. Yeah. And a lot of people don't because like me, I don't really know anything. And I don't have musicians. Now that I know about your app, though, I'm going to go check out hoop triggers only because, dude, I mean, I can picture it. I just need to see it. It needs to be voice activated, though, because how do you know when to press the button? And once you press the button, do I have to be rehearsed? No, I have to know when what it says and does so I can match it. You just let it flow, man. You just flow with it, you know. But hey, auto hoop will be launching soon. So you only have to worry about it. You just turn it on and just go for it and it'll just know what to do. That's incredible. Yeah. All right. Well, to wrap up, how can the bomb squad help C dub? Other than, you know, get your apps and spread the word. How can they help you? How can they help me? Man, I would say just. Man, the connection, man, the connection is valuable. I love being around. First of all, just people that think like you. That it's refreshing to me, because sometimes I feel like I'm the only one, you know, with questions and things, especially when it comes to the to the religious stuff, I love the way. You question things and and and and how open minded you are about it. But just in general, how can the bomb squad help me? Visibility. Even I still have so much to learn about entrepreneurship and business. My dad taught me a lot about the mindset. Right. I mean, I've been an entrepreneur in my mind since I was in high school. I was like, I'm retired by the time I graduate. I was always like that. But as far as even what to do, I would say my dad taught me how to be successful, but not necessarily what to do once it happened. And that's that's something I'm still learning. And then I need help with even just wrapping my mind around like. Money and how much I make and what I can do with it and what I should be doing with it and I'll give you a crash course real quick. Okay. The money that you make, consider that earned income. You want to act like you're not in possession of it, because what most people do is they start to make a lot of money, then they start to buy the nice things and the nice houses and the nice cars and the nice trips. And really they're just living at a higher level. All right. But if anything happens to that, that revenue, you know, you're screwed. So what smart people do, and I wish I would have done is once I started making money, I went and got the Rolls Royces and the Ben, look at me. I'm cool and I'm successful because that's what I, that's what I thought. That's how these rich people got their stuff is they made a bunch of money and then they got it. Well, there's a little spot in between. So when you make a bunch of money, you now take that money, that earned money and you invest it into assets, cash flowing assets, real estate. Could be anything as long as there's cash flowing from it. Businesses, people can buy businesses easier. They can build them. You could literally go buy a successful business. You can go buy a home and rent it out. You can go buy an apartment building, a commercial building, anything and everything. But you take that money that normally people would upscale their life and you invest it and then pretty soon the money that you're earning is being invested. For the most part, and then the money that you've invested will then start producing money and that money is the money that you can spend. Most people get that completely different. Are you have any real estate? Are you investing already? I am in a few places. I do have a condo that I'm investing in in Atlanta and then another condo in Dubai that I'm investing in. So are you renting them? Not yet. Well, then it's not an investment. It's an expense. That's true. I knew this was happening. I knew this was going to be. Yeah. Dude, because I mean, it's nice when that recurring revenue comes in, but most people, they just start to elevate their lifestyle. Right. They get nicer watches, nicer cars, nicer vacations and something happens. Yeah. And then that revenue stops. And then all the stuff that you could afford is now. Unaffordable. I mean, there's taxes, even if you pay cash for a house, man, you don't own it. There's taxes, there's HOA, there's maintenance. So it's like, people don't realize that if you got $20 million cash and you went and bought all your dream toys and life and everything's paid for so you don't have any bills and now you, for some reason, stop making a decent amount of money. The maintenance on all that stuff will break. Yeah. That's so the smart thing to do for people that are just starting to make money is act like you're not making that money. Don't go buy the car, hold off, take that money that you would have bought a car with and go buy a cash flowing asset. Now that cash flowing asset starts to produce. Okay. That money you can technically spend, but if it depends on your age, I would take that and invest it and invest it, invest it to where you're making money on passive income, which means just assets that are producing cash with the money that you earned. That's the only tip I would give people. Yeah. Cause that's what I screwed up. Yeah. Had I invested this last 30 years, I don't even know if we'd be sitting here. I mean, I do this for fun mostly, but we'd probably still be sitting here, but I'd just have so much more stability and money and liquidity and, you know, foundational wealth, but I, but I didn't understand it. I was like, damn, I'm making money. I can get nice cars now. I can fly private. I can freaking afford all these things. All right. And if I got all that money back and invested it, I wouldn't have to keep making money, right? Just thank God I'm a blessed individual. You know, I make money, but I did a very poor job of investing that money. And so now I'm playing catch up. I see. So don't, don't get stuck. How do you? I'm 43. Oh, okay. So, so I mean, dude, 10 more years, you want to be retired or no? And when I say retired, I don't mean not working. I mean, just, you don't have to work. Right. Right. Yeah. Well, you're already kind of there because that app store just keeps downloading every day. Right. As long as, yeah. When you're going to start blowing it up and advertising, super or super bowl commercials, things like that. That's the goal. I thought about. Yeah. I'm so right. I haven't, I haven't got to that level yet. Well, because you don't want to. All right. You got money and it's just money, money and exposure. Yeah. Because a lot of people, again, they start to build, they don't have anything. They start to build, they start to get something. And now they get real scared because they don't want to lose it. So they stop taking risk. If they stop using money to make more money. I don't think I got scared. I think I did get relaxed though. And that was comfortable. Yeah. I think I think that did happen. And I finally just broke out of that for sure. So yeah. If I were a musician, I'd have better ideas for you. But listen, listeners, I know I got a lot of musicians, a lot of faith-based people also like shooting a DM, go give them a follow, give them some, give them some. Tips, if you have any, on how to get more reach for these apps. Because obviously, if the whole world knew about these apps, you'd, you'd, instead of in all the churches, you'd have a hundred times more. Yeah. That'd be great. It will be great. When do you, when do you begin to set up nonprofit foundations and. I'm in the process of doing that now. You're already doing that. Right on. Yeah. Yeah. What's your, what's your feeling philanthropy about? Um, exposing kids to what's possible. So my goal is to just like go into neighborhoods and show them things that some kids would never ever see, you know, putting them in situations. I want to, I want to take, you know, I want to take a whole, take over a whole first class with nothing but kids, you know, I want to take a whole suite in a basketball game with nothing but kids or the whole role of, on the floor at the Atlanta house game with nothing but kids, just show them what it feels like to, to be able to experience stuff like that. That's, that's, that's my goal. Do you think that inspires them? Oh yeah. Yeah. I think so too. People, I don't think value that as much because again, if you take a, I always tell people, Hey, you know, if they're broke, not broke, but like just not rich and they want to be, I say, listen, go down to the Mercedes dealership and you know, setting one of the cars, visualize and act like it's yours and feel as if you already have it and be grateful and, you know, all the laws of manifestation and things. Cause I believe in that. Yeah. I do too. I was, I was in Columbia one time and there's a particular house style of house that I want and I saw it on Airbnb and it was like five grand a night. And I'm like, I don't care. I'm going, I'm going to stand by myself. It was 18 bedroom mansion on the hill. And I just, I just had to go and experience it. Cause I know if I do it, I know it's coming, but I had to see what it felt like just to be in that area and me and the owner became really good friends. And now it's every time I go, that's where I stay. But it's like, I was, I was just by myself. How is Columbia? Huh? How is Columbia? Columbia is, I love Columbia. Honestly, I really do. Uh, my friend said, dude, you go there. You might not leave. It's freaking incredible. Yeah. Yeah. Medellin. Yeah. You go. That's where I went. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I have to get down there. Well, listen, folks, you know how to help him, go follow him, hit, hit him in the DMs. If you guys got ideas, you want to collab, shoot him an email. Um, you have a website? Yes. Well, I have a few. Um, but let's just, let's just roll with hoop triggers.com hoop triggers with a W. And triggers with a Z. So W H O O W H O O P T R I G G E R Z. That calm. There you guys go, folks. Don't say I never brought you nothing good until next time. Keep it real.