Reach for Greatness with Steven Spielberg

I've never really been in psychoanalysis at all in my entire life, because I think the camera was my... Well, we're going to do that here. Well, I figured we were going there. We got a man right there. I figured we were going there. Don't scare him away. Don't scare him away. We're going to do that right now, Steven. And I don't have my security bag up, which is my Bollocks. My Bollocks camera. This episode is brought to you by Chase Home Lending. Well, hello. Hi. There is a buzz in the room. I know. It's a full house here. It's a thrum. Yeah, it is a full backpint bench. I mean, you know, everybody is like, I'm sitting in this one. I wonder why, huh? Oh, man. Really, truly special guests we have today. Steven Spielberg, the one and only Steven Spielberg. And we're going to talk about his films and his movies. But the truth is, is that I've had the pleasure to get to know him as Steven, my friend. You know, I know his work, but I have fallen in love with him and his family because of the man that he is, the person that he is. And, you know, he is really only doing this because he loves me dearly. I know that he does not like talking about anything but his work. He has told me that this is only his third podcast that he's ever done. Yeah. And I'm just thrilled to have him on because I love him. He is one of the best human beings that I know. And you've… I've gotten to know him through you. And I have a couple of things to share with him when he comes out. So I'm really excited that he's here too. And when we were talking a little bit before we came on, I was really touched that he was excited to be here and that he doesn't do this. And he seemed like he was enjoying… At least enjoyed the pre-part of it. Well, let's introduce him and get him out here. I will. And I almost feel… I shouldn't be the one introducing him. He's so revered and such an icon. But you must introduce him. So please read the introduction. Steven Spielberg is one of the most successful and influential filmmakers in history. He has directed major feature films since the mid-1970s and is considered the father of the modern blockbuster. Spielberg, which I realized from reading the research when he was younger, people called him Spielberg and he didn't want to be called by his last name. So I feel honored that I can call him Steven. He is one of the few to achieve EGOT status. Just got that. Just got it. Having won Academy, Emmy, Grammy and Tony Awards across film, television, music and theater. In 2015, President Barack Obama, who we know, presented him with the nation's highest civilian honor, the Presidential Medal of Freedom. And in 2024, President Joe Biden awarded him with the prestigious National Medal of the Arts. So without further ado, please welcome Steven Spielberg. Yay! Hey, how are you? I'm good. Thank you. Thanks for being here. Thank you, Craig. Oh, thank you, brother. My pleasure. We want you to feel at home because you're at home. You said you're not used to seeing me without, you know, Palm trees. Palm trees or, or cat-able clothes. Exactly, exactly. You know, in a swim cover-up or something. Because, because it's interesting because I don't think I've ever, this is only my third, I believe, only my third podcast. And this is my first podcast with a dear friend. I've never done one with a dear friend before. Well, well, we, we have fun here. As I said, we let the conversation flow. And I want to start by giving you a compliment of how completely cute you look today. Oh, oh, wow. Well, well, thank you. Thank you, Kate Coucher. I'm my wife. You see, this is why I bring this up because, you know, I asked you, who, who dressed you today? Well, you allowed to- Yeah, who dressed me today because I'm here with you in LA and Kate's back in our home in New York City. And of course she's not here. But of course, when I came home last night, the entire outfit for today was already hanging up in the closet with everything laid out. She's very clear. She's, she's very clear. You direct many things, but your look, you, you do not, you're not allowed to touch your own look. No, no, no, no. I produce my career, but Kate produces my life. Well, how you feeling? I'm feeling good. I'm feeling excited. I'm, I'm feeling nervous. I'm feeling all those things that a person feels before they have a film come out. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, you talk about this, how, how nervous you still get when you've got a project coming out, the great Steven Spielberg, you still feel those jitters to have your, your piece out there in the world. Yeah. One would think that, that I would, by this time in my life and career, I'd be standing on a solid cement floor, but it's still pretty liquid. Yeah. It doesn't matter how many movies, you know, I've directed or produced each one in a way, especially the directed films, each one in a way feels like an earlier work, not something with a lot of experience to back it up. So every film is a new, is a new experience for me. And are you nervous for the reception? Are you nervous for what your friends would think? What are you nervous about? Oh, no, I'm excited for the reception. I cannot wait to unleash this film on the world. What I'm nervous about is I now have to talk about it for the next eight weeks before it comes out. It's the talking part. You do not like to be out in front. Well, I'll tell you why, because it's really, really hard to make a movie. And when I finished the film, I think the film is over. But today, with the way information is collated and disseminated about stories, films, it's almost like going back to work again and starting the movie from scratch, even though the movie already is there, about to speak for itself. My job now is to sort of speak up for the film without giving too much of the film away. And that's the delicate tightrope. We all have to walk, especially if you've made a movie that's all about mystery. And you don't want to give too much of that mystery up. And you've been pretty good about this movie, keeping it under wraps. I will tell you that my husband is a bully to you when it comes to your movies. I always reprimand him, but what did he, what did he, because you haven't let him see this one and he's very mad about that. Yeah. He said if he wasn't among the first to see it, he was going to watch it only on an iPhone. And he said he was only watching. Which he knows would irritate him. And he said he wouldn't watch it horizontally. He'd only watch it vertically. Oh, that's not nice. But he got to come on set for this one. This is the first set Barack ever visited. Even though your daughter is a filmmaker, Malia. Yeah. So I feel bad. I scoot Malia and he came on my skis. She will never invite us to anything that she does. She doesn't want us around her stuff, but he had a ball. Yeah. It was great. It was great. It was, of course, for my cast, it was a bit of a religious experience because in walks this iconic president who comes on to our set. That seems like a lot of pressure. To me, he's a good friend. And of course, all of us, we know each other so well. But on the set, the kids didn't know Barack except from what he's done for the world and who he represents. And they were just absolutely, and I have a very extroverted cast. You could hear a pin drop when he walked in. They didn't know what to say. Did they know he was coming ahead of time? I didn't tell all of them. I told some of them, but not all of them. And I know you, well, we're talking about your latest project, which is Disclosure. Disclosure Day. Disclosure Day. And why don't you give us the premise of the movie, what we can expect? Well, the movie, I've been sort of on this dance floor before when I was much, much younger. I made a movie in 1976, which came out in 1977 called Close Encounters of the Third Kind. Oh, that one. I think I remember that. I think you heard about that. And that was a movie certainly about the first time, you know, humankind meets an advanced civilization from off our world, from out there. And I haven't really visited that particular subject matter for close to 50 years. Next year it'll be 50 years when Close Encounters was released. But I felt starting back in, I think, 2023, when The New York Times came out with a story. It was a story influenced by a whistleblower that released some footage to The New York Times. And it was a story written by, I believe, Helene Cooper and Ralph Blumenthal and Leslie Keane. And it was a story about what Navy pilots had photographed on their FLIR systems, their infrared systems, their forward-facing infrared systems of a UFO, now called a UAP, which stands for Unidentified Anomalous Phenomenon. I kind of like an identified flying object better. I know, I'm so used to it. I don't know why I changed. I know, I'm so used to it. I won't remember that. But it brought it more of a serious, more of an acceptable sort of lexicon of terms to a world that even now, 50 years after Close Encounters, is more likely to believe that something has been happening for decade upon decade upon decade about our world being visited. And our movie is about what would happen if all this information was disclosed all at the same time. What would that affect everything? And the story really is about the attempt to stop any disclosure from ever taking place. And that's why a lot of this film is a wild, wild, relentless chase. Yeah. What is your, I won't say obsession, but your deep interest in what's happening beyond our planet? I guess it's just because of my curiosity. Even more than my imagination. Because there's a lot of Close Encounters that I made up, but there's a lot in disclosure today that I don't really feel I needed to make up. Because it's out there, as they said with the X-Files. The truth is out there, and I think the truth is now here. And who is brave enough to really come forward and tell all of us that we shouldn't be afraid of living with this truth. And that curiosity, more than imagination, is what drove me to tackle this subject. Yeah. And you have told me how much you love this cast. I love this cast. Everybody at Emily Blunt and Joshua Conner, Colman Domingo. It's just like the hits keep hitting. Colm, Firth, and Eve Husson, Wyatt Russell. I was blessed with a great cast. More than just changing addresses. 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I love working with the same actors again. But my main family really is the crew. I've had the same composer, John Williams. John Williams. I was with him yesterday finishing up our film. And how many films have you guys done together? John and I, this is our 30th film together as director-composer. So many people in my life, I've had in my life. Tony Kushner? Tony Kushner has written four, five. David Kep who wrote Disclosure Day has written five other films for me. It's, when it does, Michelle, it creates a shorthand. And also when you have people that really service the story, as Shakespeare said, the play is the thing. And that's the most important thing. And when you get people that know how to service, not my needs, but the actual needs of the story and they all do their jobs. And they do their jobs so brilliantly, there's no reason on earth that you shouldn't want to hire those people over and over and over again. So I brought with me, Kristi Makasko has been with me for 29 years. Kristi Makasko already has five Oscar nominations for Best Picture. We have a great family, great lucky. But that comes from the head. There are a lot of people doing great movies. They don't want to work with the same director again and again. That says a lot about you, Steve. I give good rap gifts. I think it's a little bit more than the rap gifts. I think it's the way that you are with people and your passion for what you're doing. And you're also a loyal person. Loyalty is important, but loyalty is something that is sort of a natural thing for me. I mean, it's a natural thing for me based on who my mom and dad were and the four kids they raised and the values that they imparted on all of us. Well, I'm glad you said something about your mom and dad because the last time we were together was at Misha's place in Martha's venue. And I want our audience to know that Stephen's wife, Kate, did a painting of one of the pictures of Misha and mom and the three of us. And the picture was so moving. The painting was so moving that it brought us all the tears. And the last time I was with you was with mom. And she was such a huge fan of yours. And you were always so kind to her. And she felt like she had a relationship with you just over the few times that you guys had met. Oh, yeah. And I want to thank you for that. Thank you for telling me that. Well, we had more than a few times together. And she was, as we used to say, I'm a baby boomer. So I'm able to say this, she's a card. And she was endlessly delightful and completely forthcoming and brutally honest in the most warm, loving way. And just adored her. And thank you for mentioning Kate that way because no one knows until now Oh my gosh, that Kate painted the picture of you and Michelle and your mom. Yeah, she is a really gifted, gifted woman. And, you know, the ultimate true partner. I know and I know, you know, that you couldn't do what you do without somebody as sturdy and talented. And, you know, she's your creative partner in so many ways. Oh, no, in every way, every way. But I was watching you with my mom and I was wondering about your relationship with your mom. It must have been wonderful because given the way you treated our mom. When I grew up, when I grew up with my mom and dad, and this was just to find who they are. And I love them both so tenderly and equally. And I miss them equally as well. But, you know, my dad was a real dad and my mom was a playmate. Yeah. So now as a little kid, I had friends and I had my mom who was my friend. And and that was the way she was with Anso and Nancy, all of us. She really it wasn't that she had to drop down to our level to relate to us. She kind of pulled us up to hers and and we just got a hell of a kick out of each other. And to be able to be raised by a mom who you so thoroughly enjoy hanging out with. That's what that's that's that's where I think I had a very privileged and lovely childhood. What would be some of the best play moments that you had with your mom? Oh, my mom, you know, when we were living in Phoenix, I was I was the oldest of I'm the oldest in family of four. And we got to Phoenix, Arizona. And the first thing my mom did was I was 12 years old. 11. No, I was 10, 10 and a half years old. We got to Phoenix and my mom went out and got a Willis Army Jeep from the Korean War. What? And when running around town with all of us in the back of the Jeep in those days, by the way, there are no seatbelts or airbags. Oh, yeah, just bouncing around in the back. So we're in an open Jeep with those seatbelts with my mom, who was a basically she was a pretty fast driver and we be in. Sheeps have no suspension. So we're just trying to not pop out of the car going down, you know, Black Canyon Highway going 55 miles an hour. And with my mom wearing a sort of a kind of a cowboy hat and a Serapi. Wow. So my mom, my mom had a personality that stood out. And did that, you know, sometimes that can make a kid feel uncomfortable that you have a mom that's kind of out there, kooky. How did you feel growing up? That was great because all my friends just loved hanging out with her. Because once again, she was part of my peer group. And when I was 10 years old, she was part of our peer group. When I was 16 and driving, she was part of that peer group. When I was, you know, going to college, 18, 19 years old, she was part of that peer group. And my mom just really, I think we dressed to her as opposed to her dressing down to us. I think we somehow we always were. And we admired my mom's style, but I could never myself be that kind of outrageous. Yeah, out there. Yeah. She cornered that market. Yeah. What role do you think she played in you starting picking up a camera? I mean, was that part of that imagination, her free spirit, nature, did that impact your decision to make movies? Because you were you were making movies so young, you know. I think it I certainly did. It was it was sort of my dad's camera that I borrowed the eight millimeter Kodak camera I borrowed to start making movies. And my movies were just movies of our camping trips. Because I could hold the camera steadier than my dad did. He didn't have so much patience with the camera and I did. And it kind of started that way. So in a way, even though in the fable, men's there's a scene where the Mitzi. Yeah. My mom, her name was Leah Lee. She gives the character Sammy a camera. In fact, it was my dad in real life that gave me the camera for the first time. So my dad was pretty instrumental in getting me equipped with something that I could sort of vent everything I was feeling and seeing and and being scared of. When something scared me, I went off and made a little eight millimeter movie so I could frighten other people. It's kind of like what that something scared me. I'm going to make a movie about what scared me so I can scare others. And it was it was a real. I mean, I've never really been in psychoanalysis at all in my entire life because I think the camera was we're going to do that here. Well, I figured we were going there. We got to be going there. Don't scare. We're going to do that right now. And I don't have my security bag, which is my. Bullax, my bullax camera. But you still do that. I mean, this is a beautiful thing. Your gift to us when we're all together in a group. You mean you're you're not shy, you know, you're talkative. But when there's a moment, you're filming it. You know, you pull out your phone and you're sort of like the elf on the shelf. Just kind of. And then you give that gift back to us, you know, at the end of our time together. It's like, oh, Stephen was back there and he was watching that. And he captured that. And, you know, what is that? What's that about in your personality where that's that's your comfort spot? I think from my earliest memories of having a camera in my hand, that the great thing about seeing, let's say, the home movies of I was always aware of time passing, even when I was like 10, 11 years old and I was making a movie of my dad, you know, catching a trout and clean the fish and then having eggs and fish for breakfast in the White Mountains of Arizona. I would look at that even as a kid to say, I'm marking time. I'm marking this moment. And I'm because someday I'm going to look back on it. If I don't have this, if I don't have this antiquity, I'm not. I may not remember it. And I want I want to be able to remember all the good times and all the bad times. And so I just started being a kind of videographer of our of our family took all the home movies. And then when I was on my own in college, I was taking eight millimeter movies of my friends in school. And when I got into the movie business, I continued to take videos when film, you know, is termed out and videos became popular. I switched my equipment and I've always sort of been a little philosophical. I'm very, very nostalgic. I've always been very much nostalgic. What we're when so you talk about getting a camera and then trying to make make films that that affected you. So something scared you. So you made something scary. What kind of movies were you watching as a kid that sort of. Peaked your interest in the in the in the whole vocation? Well, when I was a kid, you know, growing up, there were two ways to see movies. One, your parents had to drive you to a movie theater. So all the movies I saw were not by choice. They were the films my mom and dad thought was appropriate for them to take me and maybe and and when Sue got old enough and later Nancy to accompany them to the movies. So all the movies we saw were pretty sophisticated films. I love musicals because my parents love musicals. And so we went to the movie theater to watch a big kind of, you know, Gene Kelly, Frank Sinatra, some kind of a music. So that was the other thing. The other access I had to stories being told to me was on television because we had movies that were shown on television in the 50s called The Late Show. And so these are movies that came out in the 1940s and some of them in the 50s. And we didn't have color television. So even a color movie you saw in black and white. But it didn't matter because those movies I had more access to than theatrical films. And it's only when I started making money on a paper route or whitewashing citrus trees, I used to do to raise money to make to make my eight millimeter movies and to buy film and processing, I would be able to go out and on my own and see movies on my own. And that's when I became pretty independent and can make my own choices. And and so the movies were eclectic. All the films I was interested in, I'd like I love Westerns. I saw The Searchers in a movie theater in New Jersey in 1957. I think it was when I was I was I was like nine, ten years old. You know, I love science fiction. I was crazy about science fiction. I remember seeing the movie that George Pal made called Destination Moon. I saw it in a revival house because it had already played out in theaters. It was being it was being shown years after its initial release. And I went to a theater and saw it for the first time. And it was about, you know, humanity's first trip to the moon, to the moon. And it was crazy, good. And I'll never forget that film. And I love the music. The music sounded like the kind of classical music my dad and mom would play, like Ray von Williams or Bartok or or Shostakovich. And suddenly the score of this movie sounded like classical music. It was a composure named Lath Stevens. And it was the very first soundtrack album I ever purchased and played it until I wore the record out. So so that is where it all started with, I think, the Western and the science fiction film. Yeah. Yeah. And music for you has always been the soundtrack. Yeah, has always been something we've talked about this before. You were very savant like when it comes to compositions. It's like, name that composition in one note and Steven can get it. Did that come from your your mom, her love of music? It did. It did because I was raised. I was raised with, you know, basic. My mom was a keyboard artist and she pretty much performed Schumann, Schubert, you know, Bach, Brahms, Chopin. And that was the music of my childhood. That's what I grew up with. But my private life, I grew up with the music of of of, you know, Eric Wolfgang, Corn Gold, Max Steiner, Franz Wachsman, you know, so many of the, you know, Dmitry Tiamkin and Meklis Rosha. These are the great most of them immigrants that came to America to write music. And they would have preferred to write concert pieces, symphonic pieces, or even opera, but they couldn't get jobs doing that. So they started to write music for movies. Max Steiner wrote the score for, you know, some of the greatest films, including, you know, the Western, I love so much called The Searchers. And and so when my mom was doing forehand with a friend in the living room, I'd be in my bedroom with my record player playing motion picture soundtracks. And every time I heard a movie score, it would make me want to tell a story and write it down on paper. Oh, wow. And storytelling, you know, what can you talk a bit about your your process for how you how you choose a story and and when? I mean, your stories range from extra terrestrial to the Holocaust to World Wars. You cover it all. What makes you decide to stealth to be interested in a story? And when are you when are you ready to tell it? Because even the fablemen's mean you didn't touch your life, you know, you sort of stayed away from your biography, your entire career. And then all of a sudden the fablemen's comes out, which, by the way, is one of my favorite films of you. I've told you this before. Thank you. Thank you, Michelle. Well, the fablemen's, you know, fablemen's was kind of my reaction to the passing of my parents. Yeah. I would have told the story while they were alive. But I was a little too nervous to let out too much of that part of my personal life that wasn't just a metaphor. I was OK about taking my personal life and creating metaphor, but to directly recount things that happened and occurred in our lives and the trauma of the divorce that we all had to experience and live through and recover from, by the way. That was something I wasn't really willing to do. But when I lost my mom and dad, I kind of made the movie in memory of them, but also in a way trying to get them back a little bit into back into my life. So I could run the movie and actually because Michelle Williams became my mom. Like I couldn't imagine anybody becoming. I couldn't. I didn't think it was possible. But Michelle, based on some home videos that I showed her and some eight millimeter sound movies of my mom, Michelle had some kind of a, I guess, I guess you would call it a transcendental, you know, transference where she either my mom came to her. And I think my mom did come to her on the movie, but she was her. And that was that was remarkable as you know, as was Paul Dana was my dad. And you shared that moment. You were trying to keep it together to make sure because you said the cast and crew, they were worried about you through the process. They would wanted to make sure that you were OK and you were trying to settle them down. And then what happened when you came on set? Well, what happened was I told them early on, I said, look, I've gotten all my tears out of the way with Tony Kushner. Tony wrote this as my writing partner. We we wrote this very quickly. And Tony sort of got a lot of this out of me because he's a he himself has some therapeutic skills that open me up to allow me to be brave enough to put some of this down on paper with him. But I told everybody that I got all my tears out, writing the script. I was going to be fine. And we got to the set of the very first day. And I had seen some of the wardrobe tests with the actors in at the studio months before. But suddenly there's the set and the set happens to be the house. I grew up in the Rick Carger, the production designer, recreated, based on all the home movies and home videos I had taken of that house. And he went on eBay and he found things in my bedroom that I forgot were in my bedroom. And he put them in the set of my bedroom, my childhood bedroom. And I walked onto that set and suddenly I'm home. I'm back in Phoenix and I'm home. You can't go home again if you make a movie. You only if you make a movie. And then and then Christy said, the cast is coming out for the first rehearsal and Paul Dano came around the corner. And Michelle Williams came around the corner. And what I really saw is my mom and dad back to life and back together and back together again, coming toward me. And I completely went back on my word and I lost. And they were great. Michelle hugged me in the front and Paul came around the back and he hugged me around back and we're in a bit of a of a Steven sandwich. And and they kept me. They supported me through the whole process and I needed the support. Yeah. Oh, yeah. That's amazing. It's just amazing. And you taught you. I heard you talk about in other interviews or I read it somewhere doing the research that the thing that you were most worried about was how your sisters felt about this. Can you talk about the pressure of that? Because I can't even imagine doing something and worrying about her. I mean, I can imagine it. Well, you're telling everybody's story. Yeah. Yes. But but but but I'm not everybody whose story was told. I'm only me and I could only tell my story and assume I was getting their stories right. So the first thing I did was send them all the screenplay. And I wanted them to give me notes, tell me where I made it up, tell me what was not accurate, tell me and they were great. And they had some adjustments and some notes to give me about their characters, about things that I didn't even know they were doing at the time these events were taking place, which helped the movie. And then they came onto the set from time to time, not all the time, but maybe once a week they come onto the set to visit and to watch and to cry and to commune with me. And the biggest nervous thing was when I showed them the film for the first time. And I showed it to Nancy and Sue in New York City and Anne in Los Angeles. And the first screening was for my two sisters who were closer to where I was in New York. And that was that was hard. That was hard because because it was less about the film and more about what it felt like for them to be taken back in time, not reminded of something, but being given an experience that was very reexperienced like for them and brought brought everything up, all the anti Semitism we experienced growing up. All of the the tumult between my mom and my dad, the affair my mom had with my dad's best friend and business partner that eventually caused their marriage to dissolve. And it was really traumatizing to be in a room with them and experience them experiencing our lives together. Did it feel healing at all? It did. Eventually. Yeah. Not at first, because at first all the old swords started to hemorrhage a little bit. And and then after a while, it's completely healing. Yeah. Yeah. So what made it right to do that? You said to to. So it just felt like you were ready for that with Fableman's. Yeah, I was ready to bring mom and dad back. Yeah. Yeah. That's beautiful. And other stories that you decide to tell and win. What's your, you know, it depends because I'm a history buff. I love history. You know, I didn't do good in high school. The only thing I got a good grade in was history. And I love reading biographies. And so a lot of my films are historically, you know, anchored the Holocaust World War Two. Certainly the the the the Amistad and the Amistad Africans. You know, the story about Lincoln, you know, and the passage of the 13th Amendment. These are films that are very close to my heart because the history is close to me. And and so so I just love telling stories that actually happened and trying to get it as as right as possible. My dad fought in the Second World War. He was with the 490th Bomb Squadron called the Burma Bridge Busters stationed in Karachi and places in Burma. And my dad was eventually in charge of all the ground to air communication when all these B-25s and and cargo planes were flying the hump, which was a very dangerous, you know, sortie to fly. And my dad was coordinating all of these flights. And so I heard stories as a child about two subjects. The Shoah, which they call the Great Murders, the Holocaust and stories about World War Two. So I had always been looking for a war movie to make. And I had seen a lot of war movies on television growing up, you know, but they're all sort of war movies that are pretty much filled with tropes, you know, and and yet you think those tropes are accurate until you actually meet the people that fought in that war. And and when Stephen Ambrose wrote his book D-Day and the other book, Citizen Soldier, and introduced me to some of the veterans that landed on Omaha Beach on June 6th, 1944, I suddenly realized that, oh, my God, we need to tell the story of what really happened with no tropes or a few tropes we could possibly include. I've lived in quite a few major cities over the years, and I've always loved how much each one changed whenever a big event came to town. All of a sudden, Chicago would be filled with music lovers or film aficionados or, of course, people dying to see the Cubs win. 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And you hadn't been back to Martha's Vineyard since filming Jaws, because you said that you just couldn't face going back to that island because of the experience. Can you talk a bit about that? Actually, I have got you were like my when I when I was saw you all in the vineyard. That was maybe my fourth time. But I didn't go back for years and years and years after making Jaws because that was the toughest location of my career was anybody. I mean, we were in the 12 miles out to see past the Cape Pogue Lighthouse. And it was it's tough making a movie on the water. And I won't go through all that. Just just around the documentary Jaws at 50. It'll save me half an hour of telling you on a podcast. Just go watch Jaws at 50. You'll see how hard it was. And thanks for the plug. Needless to say, it was it was very, very, there was almost an impossible mission, a mission impossible. And if I probably knew how hard it was going to be, I might not have done the movie if somebody had come out and told me by looking at a crystal ball. And instead of seeing any M in the ball saying Dorothy, where are you? Instead of seeing the movie, you're seeing everybody throwing up over the side of the boat and the ship at six foot waves and not getting our shots and the shark falling apart and coming out of the water tail first when it's attacking, you know, things like that. You probably, I probably might have had second thoughts about it, but it's a movie that also because of the what followed because the film was so successful, it gave me freedom to do it. So I never had to go really go to a studio again and say, will you let me direct this movie because the studios after Jaws were coming to me as they do to any successful filmmaker to say, what do you want to make the phone book? We'll we'll find out the phone book. And so it gave me it gave me a lot of freedom after that. I mean, she said she just watched Saving Private Ryan. I just recently rewatched Sugar Lover. I mean, I just watched Sugar Lover. And I just recently rewatched Sugar Land Express. Oh, that was one of my best experiences. My first movie. I know. Can you talk about that whole process because, yeah, I had been so I saw it a long time ago and then I watched it again. I haven't and then I want to talk to you about movies that get people to rewatch all the over and over again. But that's another question. I was watching Sugar Land Express and the way you make the antagonists feel like a protagonist is my favorite thing in that movie. I was rooting for them the whole way and like everybody was. But can you talk about making that and you talk about extras. How many police cars are in that movie? Oh my God, they were like 50 or something. There were a lot of police cars. It felt like more. I don't remember. I just I just know that I was I was making TV. I had made Duel which sort of was considered my first feature because it was released in theaters internationally, not domestically. It was on ABC movie movie of the week here in this country. But overseas it was released theatrically. So most people that do the filmography sort of list that as my first film. But Sugar Land was my first real theatrical American film. And I got the idea from reading a newspaper that came to my house. And I was living in an apartment in off Lancashire Avenue and right across from Universal Studios. And it was a newspaper called The Citizen News. And there was a story about a Texas couple. They were trying to get their baby back from foster care. And they were in and the guy was in pre-release in a pre-release form. And they basically kidnapped a highway patrol officer and got into or they stole a car. And they led this riotous chase, a caravan of police cars, until a very tragic ending occurred. And I went to my friend's house where Matthew Robbins who were friends who I was that who were the guys that introduced me to George Lucas in the 60s. And they wrote a brilliant script based on the story that I sketched out. And I went and tried to sell it in the studio like the script. And they said, if you can get a movie star, we'll make this movie and let you direct it. And then I went through the business of being said no to by many movie stars. Many, many people turned me down. But the one person who didn't say no was Goldie Hahn. And Goldie Hahn loved this script, loved the character of Lou Jean Poplin. And she said yes. And if she'd said yes, that would not have been made, that movie. She got that movie made. Yeah. You know, we were talking the other day about casting, right? And you said something like, you know, the right cast member always kind of shows up because there's always there's the timing issue, you know, you have an idea, you have somebody that you write for you think it's that that actor, and then they're not available. That's right. Do you remember we talked about this? I do. And I think one of the things I was saying is the actor you thought you wanted was the only actor you could imagine playing that role was not the actor you eventually found out you were wrong about in the first place. Because the person you wound up with was the only person destined to play that character. Right. And I really, truly believe that because I've had many experiences with actors saying no to me, but the person that eventually said yes, I cannot imagine anybody else playing that role. And I just think that's a little bit of determinism versus free will. We can get into those conversations. I'm not sure we should, but that's the whole thing where I sometimes believe that there are strings connecting everything and the strings have already been laid out before we get to that juncture right in the road. Well, we think we're making a decision when in fact the decision has already been made for us. What's been the biggest casting karma that that happened that you can remember? Oh my there's been a number of them. Harrison Ford, did you think of him? Thank you. You're welcome. So was Harrison, he wasn't the first? What happened was George and I had interviewed a lot of people to play Indiana Jones and we tested them and they came to George's. He had a small office in Los Angeles across from Universal and we tested a lot of actresses for Mary and Ravenwood and a lot of actors especially for Indiana Jones. That was going to be whether we made the movie or not. And we both discovered and decided that Tom Selleck should play Indiana Jones. He came in and he read for the part. No diss to Tom Selleck, but just can't. His test was good. I loved it. Would he have had a mustache? No, he wouldn't have. I wouldn't have let him have a mustache. Maybe if the films were as successful he could have demanded the mustache later and then George and I would have given him time. But there's where the strings of destiny didn't cross with Tom. We wanted Tom. We gave Tom the part and then he had, which we didn't realize, an outstanding contract with CBS Network to do Magnum PI. And Bob Daley, a very close friend of mine, but I didn't know Bob at the time. When they heard we wanted Tom, they immediately put Magnum PI into production, preempting Tom from being in Indiana Jones. And now Tom is mad at everyone. Tom's a great guy. I adore him. So what happened was George at the same time asked me to come look at a rough cut of the second Star Wars movie Empire Strikes Back. So I went up to Northern California, went to the screening room, sat in a room, saw Empire Strikes Back, which I adored. And when the screening was over we were talking about the movie with about 30 or 40 people. And I pulled George aside. And I said, George, what about that guy who plays Han Solo to play Indiana Jones? And George looked at me funny and said, well, he's Han Solo. I said, I know, but you know, John Wayne might have been in the same Western forever, but he played different characters. And I said, you know, he could do more than one role. And George said, OK, but I got my mind out of the thing. He was making, he was working with Irving Kirchner to make this movie. So about a week later he called me up and said, I've set the script to Harrison. So on his own, he had a few days to think about it without telling me. He sends the script to Harrison and Harrison reads the script and he wants to do it. That was how it all began. Man, oh man. 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Plus, they offer an obsession guarantee. If you're not completely obsessed, you'll get your money back. That's ali.com.io and enter code IMO to get 70% off your first box. Ali, be the obsession. I wanted to ask you about working with kids. I mean, you know, probably because of your childhood, you know, there's always, you know, a child, an innocent in the midst of it all who's trying to work their way through. But that means that, you know, you have worked with a long list of child actors throughout your career. And, you know, I watched War of the Worlds a couple of weeks ago and Dakota Fanning in that movie. I mean, she was, she helped to make that movie, you know. And I just keep wondering with like a Drew Barrymore, there's so little, you know, how do you get these, you know, how do you get these amazing performances consistently out of these little people? Well, a child actor is like an adult actor without all the bad habits. Now you sound like Mary and Ronald. Now you sound like my mom. She's with me now. She's gone from you to you to me now. You know, there is such an innocence and there is such an ability, especially if you don't talk down to kids. We don't talk down to children who are acting in your movie, but you treat them the way my mom raised me and my three sisters. She treated us like peers. My mom is more a peer than a parent. And I want to be a peer to a young person, not a parent slash director to that young person. She treated them like little adults. And you let them tell you what they'd like to do in a real life situation because young people are able to imagine better than older veteran actors. They're able to really teleport themselves into a real situation, even though it's all made up by writers and the lighting and the special effects. To them, it's reality. And sometimes they've got the best ideas of where to take their little personalities. And so I've just been really open with young actors and I rely on them to help form their own characters without me giving a lot of direction. With Drew Barem, I took some of her improvisations because she would just talk to ET all the time. She'd stand around as a six-year-old talking to ET when he wasn't being operated by the puppeteers. And he'd just be talking to them and telling ET about her punk band that she had and the rock and roll tours she wanted to be on when the movie was over and her other aspirations. And she'd make up stuff that I would use in the movie. There was a scene around a dinner table where Elliot and Michael are kind of not getting along. And Michael's teasing Elliot about because Elliot says, I really saw this creature was he was really in the wood shed out behind the house. And Michael says, well, maybe it was alligators in the sewers. And I saw that every time he said it in the rehearsal, Drew was mouthing alligators in the sewers. So after a while, it's a Drew. Everything he says, just repeat what he says because you know you want to do that, don't you? You're doing it right now. So every time she repeated what Michael was saying, that's Drew. And you kept that in. I kept all that stuff in. She walked over to ET one day in a scene and she said, I don't like his feet. And she meant it. And so I left that in the movie. So with young people sometimes, also with actors, with adult actors, you let them help you find their characters because we can't do it all. I'm not an actor. I know what I think I want. But when an actor lands on something, it convinces me that, oh, I want that instead. You got to collaborate. It's a business. It's a collaborative medium. Well, that gets us to the industry. And we've talked about this a lot. I mean, you're, you know, we said earlier, Barack threatened to watch your movie on his iPhone. I know you have deep beliefs about what movies mean, what they should be. You believe in theaters. You believe in the entire experience. Yet the industry feels like it's moving slowly away from that view of movies. What are your thoughts and feelings on this? What do you think the industry is going? Well, I think certainly the industry, I was born in the age of TV. So when I was born, television sets were being sold for the first time. I was born at the end of 46. There are going to be a lot of listeners going, whoa. Oh yeah, a long time ago. Long time ago. But there were a lot of, you know, Slovenia and GE, black and white TV sets were being made then. And so I was the first, my, the greatest, not to a great, my dad was the greatest generation. We're the baby boomers. And we were born in front of a black and white television screen. Yet we went out to the movies because they were in color and the screens were super duper big. And we got it and it was exciting and kind of dangerous. You go to a room and you sit in the dark and you're watching a movie. And I fell in love with movies, not by watching movies on television. I fell in love with the movies by being at the movies, the old term movie going. That was something that we just took for granted. And then, and then year and then, but there's always been this competition, this kind of, I guess you called a sport between those that produce television series and those that make motion pictures. And then along came something back in the 60s called Saturday Night of the Movies. And they would take recent movies that had only been out of circulation, maybe five to seven years and they put them on TV. And the networks are trying to lure people away from weekend, going to the movies on weekends, which are big. You know, Friday and Saturday are the biggest movie days or movie nights. So they were already starting to chip away at movie goers by putting on Saturday Night of the Movies, which was successful. Got a lot of ratings points. Men people were not watching movies. They were watching some old film on television because it was unique to be sold a semi-current film to be viewed in your homes. And all of a sudden there was a competition for filling seats. The seats that I was interested in watching movies at were seats in the mezzanine or the orchestra or even the balcony. That's where I wanted to watch my movies, not sitting on the DeVan or in the beanbag or in bed. But I wanted to go out, the adventures and movie going. And that was something that was very important. And my generation grew up that way and my generation loves it. But my kids have the opposite view. My kids want the convenience of being able to see a story being told on any platform that's available, including an iPhone. They don't care. But when a certain movie does come out where the iPhone experience or the streaming experience is denied to them because the studios believe this film should be seen in movie theaters. And when the studios are brave enough to say we're not going to go back to the three week or 17 day window like Donald Langley at Universal just did. All Universal films now have a 45 day window before they go on the pay channels and eventually to their streaming platform. And this is very, very important that studios give an audience an opportunity to find these films. Not by saying it's only going to be in a theater for two weeks because then we get to qualify for awards later in the year. But it's going to be in a theater as long as people attend that movie. And that's the battle we're fighting. And COVID really hurt us. It really hurt movie going because people who couldn't go out to the movies got very accustomed to watching movies at home. And the studios started taking movies away from their release dates and putting them directly on HBO or directly on, you know, pay per view. How does that affect the viewers? Do you think we're missing out on something? The experience of watching something as a community? When you watch a movie at home, there's nothing wrong with I watch a lot of movies at home, but it's not an event to stay home and watch a movie in your living room or in your family room and your bedroom. It's an event to make a night of it or a day of it, an afternoon of it, even a morning of it and go out to the movies. That's an event and it makes it more exciting. And when you see a movie in a theater, you're also being surrounded by people who are strangers. And there are people in that theater that you know do not believe what you believe. You know, there are people in that theater who actually believe in the opposite of your core beliefs about democracy, about this country, about the world, about our needs, about what we need. But in a movie theater, everybody is tuned in to the story being told to them from the screen. And for one moment we are in communion and we are in agreement and we are a community. We're a community of strangers watching something that makes us laugh and cry and sing out and want to share those feelings. And often you go into a lobby and you're still buzzing about the movie and you talk to strangers. You're not talking about the stuff that divides you. You're talking about what just united you. And that is the great thing that build movies, build community. And we need community now more than ever. And movies can do that if studios will continue to allow movies to play for longer periods of time before they go on television. You know what I miss? What's that? I was thinking about when you're talking about community and going to the movies because we didn't go to the movies like you did. We went to the drive-in because it was more economical. Me too. Wasn't that great? I love drive-in. Arizona is full of drive-ins. Oh my God. I was hoping that with COVID drive-ins would make a comeback. Like ventriloquism? Yes. Like ventriloquism. This is a big joke because I think ventriloquism is an underutilized art form. And now I haven't seen Steven Spielberg laugh this hard in all of the times that we have been together. He has the ventriloquist dummy that the team gave him. His name is Woodrow. His name is Woodrow. And I'm going to be practicing with him because I'm going to learn how to be a ventriloquist. I'm not too old. Okay. I'll video it. I'm going to hold you to it. So how do you balance all that you have to be to make these films and the level of yourself that you have to pour into each project and not just the project as a whole, but the cast and the kids with your real life? Because you've got a big real life. Y'all got a bunch of kids. Seven kids, six grandkids. It's a lot. It's a lot. It requires a big boat. Well, they keep me relevant. I'll tell you. They keep me current to the times my kids do. Yeah. How what have been some of the challenges for you as a dad being you and home for dinner? Yeah. You know, one of the biggest challenges is just running out of excuses why I can't get home for dinner because it because it's my loss. It's their loss, but it's also my loss. When we formed DreamWorks, Kate said the only way I'm really going to say this is okay with me is if you get home every night by six, 545 is better and have dinner with the family. And don't go to work at six or seven. Unless you're shooting, you can get up at 5.30, which we usually do. Well, you're not when you're running a studio, you got to have like a nine to five job. And I made that a condition of my involvement with David and Jeffrey. And I said, I'm not doing this company unless this for me is going to be a nine to five job because I is going to be a real time drain for me. And I need to be with my family. They understand and can understand when I'm making a movie that goes out the window. I don't have control over that, over that schedule anymore. So what Kate did was take all the kids whenever I went abroad to make a film and we live abroad. We lived in Hungary for four months making Munich. We lived five months in Krakow, Krakow, Poland making Schilder's List. We lived in London making Savings Private Ryan and Ireland. I mean, and with all the kids went to school there, they were they were they were homeschooled there. And then at the end of the movie, they all get back to their schools in Los Angeles. And so so if Kate hadn't been hadn't agreed to a mobile home life while I was in the physical with a lot of family. And it wasn't you that yours weren't spread out. I mean, they sort of were and then they weren't. Yes. Because she had a bunch of little kids in diapers doing this stuff. I mean, look, McAllen's Esprit only eight months apart. You know, I mean, it's it's crazy. And it wasn't diapers and it was really hard for her and it was not easy for her. And I'm off doing what I love and she's home doing what she loves to. But kind of which is I was there doing it with her. That's the thing that that's the compromise we make you look. I read your book and Barack's book. So I know all about what it was like for eight years as first lady in that White House. Yeah. It's it's it's it's hard. Is there a an idea or a movie that you'd still like to make that you haven't made? I really I've said this ad nauseam. I want to make a Western. I've never really made a Western since I was I made an eight millimeter and there's a little Western I shot in. But I want to make a Western and and I love them. I've seen them all and and I'm working on one right now. I don't know when it's going to go. But I do I have I have something going right now. Nice. Yeah. Is it John Wayne like is it giant which you introduce me to. I love you. We watch you. I'm surprised you got her to watch something that old. That's good. I love it. I'm glad. You know at first I was like OK we're watching giant. You know. But it was great. It was really because it stands to test the time. As old as Steven films do. But the Western the premise it hasn't been decided yet. So so it is just not going to be filled with Western tropes and stereotypes. It's not going to be that at all. It's got to be something new. I've seen so many Westerns and and you know the great thing about the Western genre it was supplanted by science fiction. So when Stanley Kubrick made 2001 a space Odyssey that was really the death of the Western really. Yeah. That was the turning point. That was the turning point. The Western went away. He stayed on television for a number of years. But when it left movie theaters it started coming out on television. Yeah. Right. Raw high. That's what I was. That's what I was. You know and the rifleman you know and I mean high chaperone. Yeah. The Virginian one after the other. Right. And that when science fiction supplanted the Western. So every time I see a Marvel movie or I see a fantasy film I say and there's there's there's a dearth of that. I mean there's a plethora of that right now. Everywhere when I see those series those brands those big IPs I say well that's where the Western went. It basically dinosaurs turned into birds and Western turned into a superhero and fantasy films. Yeah. And that's where we're at right now. So I kind of want to make a Western that isn't a bird but it's something a little different. A bird of a different feather. Not quite sure what that is yet but I'm working with a really good partner on this right now trying to concoct one. Well. Oh the listener question we better. Oh yeah but we've got to leave a little time for the listener question. The listener question. One of the things on IMO we like to do Stephen is help out people and give some some good advice. So we take questions from our listener viewers. And this one's from Anna who's in Colorado. Dear Michelle and Kirk I'm 24 years old and I am a struggling aspiring writer in the entertainment industry. I have a low paying job that pays my rent but not much else. I worked hard to go to film school and try to get a foot in. I'm from a small town and have no connections so I try to make all of the right choices but I haven't gone anywhere. It feels like every door slams shut before I can even knock. There's nothing I want more than to be a famous writer but I don't have the means to take the financial risk to support those dreams. I'm also incredibly worried that AI will take over the entry level positions that could help me get my foot in the door. Or will mean that fewer shows and films will get made period. It feels like the ladder was pulled up before my generation could make it to the party. At what point do I stop dreaming and pivot career paths or even career dreams. Thanks. Wow. Hmm. Well Anna you here's the thing. The big test for you is will you persevere. Hmm. That's the key word is perseverance. Not ever giving up continuing to do what has not worked for you so far. Continuing to write. Keep writing. And the other thing you can do which is great is you can post some of your ideas. You can go on Instagram. You can go on YouTube. You can post some of your things. If you have a if you're a writer you're not talking about being a director. But you may take something you've written in short form. Find somebody you went to school with who wants to be a director. And put a little film together and use your device. Use your camera on your phone. Take advantage of the technology. Take advantage of the technology and to get your voice because where there's a it's a terrible cliche to say this but where there is a will there's a way. And where there is a passion there is an even better way. If you have that passion through perseverance you'll get to where you need to be. Yeah. Yeah. What about the economic piece too? I mean the starving writer the starving artist it's you know expensive to be in this town LA or to be in New York or to be where where the industry is. Right. You have to you have to hold a job that's going to you know meet your immediate needs and especially have a family you have a responsibility to doing the work that's going to provide for your family. But at the same time your passion can still be on that second track. We talked about the different compartmentalize you can you can have you can have it all but you have to be able to have one to be able just to subsist and then you can while you're working on the other the impossible dream. I I've had this conversation with my eldest daughter Steven as you know is an aspiring director filmmaker and in these times she has wondered aloud you know when there's so much going on in the world so many problems that we face whether it's the environment or saving our democracy you know sometimes she feels like you know should I be writing stories and you know thinking about making movies I mean should I be out on a protest line should I be doing more is this the same thing is this the right feel the thing I tell her is oh my god these are the times that we need stories you know we need storytellers and we need storytellers of all backgrounds. So what I would say to Anna is definitely don't give up because we can't seed the arena to the wealthy few who can afford to persevere because we need all these perspectives you know I mean I tell my daughter we need to hear from young black writers you know so it's like you know the voices have to be diverse or else we lose the full story we don't get the full truth if we're only hearing one person's perspective and as a woman as a young woman in this art in this art form it's like I desperately want Anna to stay the course. The one thing I like when you talk to young people about careers first of all you went to film school. Oh did you? No I didn't. I tried to go to film school but USC wouldn't let me in. Oh that's right that's I'm sorry I'm sorry to bring that up. My grades were so bad for making my little eight milliliter 16 milliliter movies that I got accepted at Long Beach I like Long Beach I was only there for two years but I wanted to go to SC. Yeah but you tell young people or what you've shown in your career is that you just love making stuff and it was like you weren't precious or particular about what you made can you talk a bit about that? You know I started by writing as well. Writing is one of the best ways to break into the business. One of the hardest things to do is get somebody to read what you've written because there's all kinds of you know there's all kinds of lawsuits called copyright infringement and producers say well it's not registered it doesn't come from an agent that I know I can't read it it's unsolicited material and that's the struggle that young writers have in getting their stuff read but the best the thing that I did I remember watching TV and watching an episode of Combat and writing my own Combat episode and sending it to Norman Felton who was the producer of Combat and he was so impressed by the script he actually read it he probably shouldn't have but he read the script and he had me come into his office and I got a chance to meet this big producer of a television series and he told me that he took one look at me I looked like I was 13 when I was maybe 18 19 he said well we're not going to buy this but it's really well written and keep writing he just gave me about a five minute really good pep talk which was wonderful of him but most of the scripts that I wrote on spec were television shows I wrote I wrote two Mission Impossible episodes because I love Mission Impossible and the man for I'm not Mission Impossible I'm sorry the man for my I wrote two episodes I watched that I love that series so well yeah David McCallum exactly I wanted to be in Uncle when I was younger I wanted to be in that group and I wanted to be Robert Vaughn but but I also wrote that so sometimes it may seem fuel to write something you're not going to sell but but that's the greatest way to understand how to structure a story first of all if you want to structure a story it's got to be about something so your first stop is what do I want to say what what in this world do I want to say that somebody might listen to do I have anything to say and if I have something to say it's important to me maybe maybe I can say it on paper first you can't write anything until you have something to say it doesn't have to be the word according to blank blank blank it simply has to be important to you and and then you then you become somebody that is coming from a place of passion a place of a place of because you want to communicate something that's important to you how are you thinking about AI in this I mean you've you've done every I mean a movie called AI I know I watched that last month that was I hadn't seen AI before I mean it's like how what crystal ball do you have Steven what scary crystal ball are you living in I mean how do you how do you foresee this stuff well I I'm I'm kind of withholding judgment on AI yeah until I see really how it is being used I think it's even being used more frequently and better currently I'm reading in China the Chinese ahead of where we are right now in its use of AI but how it's being used I'm not I'm not I'm not certain about that but what I do know about AI is that I'm sure it it can it's a tool that can create and find solutions to medical issues yeah you know in finding solutions to to how to put together a curriculum and how to get young people really more stimulated interested in the lessons that they're being taught in elementary and junior in high school and and and and so on what where I where I don't love AI is where it takes a position or there's an empty chair at a writer's table and there's six writers and there's an empty chair and there's a there's a there's a computer in front of the empty chair and it is the seventh writer at the I'm not willing to to substitute the you know because I don't really believe in sentient in sentience I don't believe that there's any substitute there's any substitute for the soul yeah I don't that is a that is an algorithm that is inventable that's there is such a word and I think that the difference between a computer that's smarter than people but a computer that thinks it's it feels more than we feel is anathema to the way I was raised and and and how I'll practice my own trade of producing and directing in the future I don't want AI involved in that way if AI wants to help me find locations that's great same as a lot of legwork but don't tell me that I don't have the right antagonists in this movie don't tell me how to write my dialogue for this character don't tell me where the camera is got to go and also don't tell me what the set should be unless AI is simply a tool in a large tool chest of the production designer and just one of many tools the production designer uses so their own impulses are what is going to determine how good my sets look use AI as a tool but do not use AI as the final word on anything creative that's where I draw the line I know that you have a house full of creative I have filmmakers and actors and actresses and what do you tell your your your kids I tell my kids to follow their hearts because their hearts are going to tell them their hearts are going to pave the roads for them more than anything else is just follow your hearts if this is it I have I have kids that do more than one thing which is great they just I have kids that act and paint and they write and they perform and they sing and and they have imaginations and they have all got great imaginations and and I just say you know hey you know if you if you have the urge you have to follow that urge you have to let it lead you and who knows where it's going to take you well your kids are amazing and I've had the privilege and the honor to spend time with them they are creative and interesting and humble yes charismatic all of that and that's a tribute to both you and and Kate my kids are making their own names they are proud of them for that they are making their own names they are great they are well Anna oh Craig did you have anything to add to no I don't I did I think we've we've covered enough for Anna but this has been really neat Steve yeah thank you Anna get some advice from Steven Spielberg whoa how about that yeah Steven I love you to death I love you to death too yeah and I'm not trying to suck up so I can see disclosure day before it I'm gonna show it to you sooner than later that would really start something if you saw it before Barack's on yeah not that I'm trying to start but that would really start something yeah I mean he may never let me back in the high ground again well I I know it's gonna be an amazing movie the buzz has been good you've got an amazing cast and it is so timely you know everybody's asking and the questions already been answered but Barack Obama he what it what it you know is like what's the answer is there is there life out there well Barack was right when he said that he believes there is light life out there I think it's mathematically and scientifically impossible that there isn't life out there that's right where there aren't advanced civilizations out there the big question remains have they ever come here or the other question is are they here now and that's the question that my movie tries to answer yeah I can't wait can't wait this one I may go to the theater for oh you better this is for a big audience this is for big audiences okay you hear that people don't watch it on your eyes no this one's for big audiences believe me just being petty go to the theaters right away Stephen thank you again for being here I wasn't too painful thank you this was a pleasure this was almost like sitting around the living room yay good good good that's what we aim for you