The Wizards Win (Something!) and More Lottery Reactions, Plus the Juggernaut Knicks With Joe House, Tate Frazier, and Chris Vernon

Ever wondered if the magic was real? Well this is where it was made. The wonder of the Hogwarts Express. The chill of the forbidden forest. The secrets hidden in Gringotts Bank. You don't watch the films here. You feel them. Every spell. Every creature. Every detail. Immerse yourself in the filmmaking magic at Warner Brothers Studio Tour London. The making of Harry Potter. Tickets must be booked in advance. WBStudioTool.co.uk What a special day here in the Bill Simmons podcast. Live on Netflix. Tate Frazier is here. Employee number one at the ringer. Back in 2015, now a host for us on a ringer tailgate. Pops on a bunch of our shows. A college basketball expert there I would say. And more importantly, because Zacklo couldn't be here today because he was at the lottery watching Joe House's favorite team. We called it. We called it to being Joe House. You finally got the number one pick and an awesome draft. I've known you since 1988, September. We ate food and played pickup basketball together. That's how this all started. I've never seen your wizards even made the conference finals. You've never had a truly awesome player in your team. You've had fun players. You've had good players. You have not an awesome player. How are you feeling? Well, let me say right up front that it is, of course, ridiculous, irrational for a grown ass man with a mortgage to derive such enormous pleasure, joy for something as dumb as where the ping pong balls land. But let me tell you right now. I apologize to absolutely fucking nobody. The champ is in the house. Number one is right here, baby. And we got it done with my guy number two, John Wall in that chair. And look what we do. We do the doggy. You know John Wall. I'm just glad you have pants on. Unbelievable. I was encouraged to whip my dick out. Now, if you'll indulge me, I'd like to offer I did prepare an exception speech for today. I did a little exception speech. Oh, take that clear overall. Let's hear it. Yeah, let's hear it. So I have to start with my wife because today is Mother's Day and she agreed that we could end Mother's Day today at three o'clock p.m. Eastern so I could get in locked in. That focus was crucially important. Good karma. Good karma. Plus you probably had some drinks at brunch over there. So you're feeling great. I did that. The Bloody Marys that that was put us in the right frame of mind. Huge thanks to Ernie Grunfeld to Tommy Shepard to Jan Vesely to Johnny Davis all the way up to this moment. Finally, with incredible infrastructure, a brain trust who created the tank of all tanks, a tank so brilliant and beautiful and execution that the league had to change the goddamn tank. He was will never have a lottery like this again. I'd like to thank coach Frank Keef, Sharif Cooper, Juju Reese, Jamiro Watkins, Alandes Williams, all the guys they put their, poured their heart out. All my old DC got John O'Ran. We'll go all the way back to Wiznuts. Shout out to Wiznuts, my guy, Dan Shanoff, Christian Dinezki, all of the old heads are so over the top with this one. We got our guy. We got the number one pick and I'll humbly accept the number one selection today. Emotional stuff. Tate, they earned it. They went one for 24 in their last 25 with a net rating of minus 14.6. I think somewhere in there was the BAM out of bio 83 point game, which was one of the most humiliating lights in the history of the NBA. They traded for two expensive former superstars that just didn't play all year. Brett Young and Anthony Davis played it perfectly. Just a win from start to finish. 50 wins in the last three years, Tate, for the Wizards and it's finally paid off. Congratulations. Yeah. Worst record in the NBA. It kind of feels like they deserved it, right? Finally we see the team with the worst record get the number one pick. So that was encouraging to see. And I just love Joe House. I mean, he's like out of breath right now as he gives us like 22 hours today. Can we talk about how the rig for this year was the anti-rig, the brilliance of Adam Thorne? It was the tremendous Zag was that the teams with the worst records grab the top three picks. Now the Brooklyn Nets were on the outside looking in, but when you did your karma rankings with Nick Wright, magnificent as always, by the way. Thank you. Shout out Nick Wright. My buddy, we've never met, but we're friends. You didn't have Brooklyn very high. You thought it was like, you know, did Brooklyn deserve the karma? Right? I thought their first rounders were so stupid. Last year I had to deduct points. I just didn't understand anything they did. Yeah. When you think about it and we'll talk about Indiana and the Clippers in a second because that was the most momentous thing that happened other than who got the number one pick. But for the most part, like Golden State didn't move up at Lannity and getting the top four as a possible Yanis suitor. Nothing truly goofy happened. And you would think the league would want to take care of Indiana, a team that lost their best guy to a terrible Achilles injury in game seven and not give the fifth pick to the Clippers. But that's what happened. We have to talk about this. I really want to dive in that Clipper thing. We have to talk about this Washington pick because it seems like AJ is the guy. I predicted this to you, Tate, two months ago. Yeah. I was just like, this is a wrap. AJ is going to be the guy. And it seems like he's the guy. Couldn't help but mention there was a look on his face after the, after the lottery. There was a picture that got sent around about a half hour later where it looked like not just one of his dogs died, but like he had three dogs that he grew up with and they all died in the same explosion in the living room or something. Do you see a world where he doesn't go number one here, whether either somebody trades into this spot or Washington says screw it and takes Darren Peterson? Yeah. It could be like a Chris Weber situation, right? Where like a team really loves them and they don't like to fit. So maybe they trade up to get him a number one. It does feel like Utah obviously has invested. I mean, I don't even know how many years, what five years, seven years. Five years. Yeah. I mean, you run the numbers about all the millions of dollars from the BYU and IL to when he went out there to play for high school. Like he's been in Utah for quite a long time. So I think in his mind, when he got to the final four, he's thinking, all right, Adam Silver, he cooked the books for me. I'm going to stay in Utah. I'm going to be a happy camper. This is going to be great. And then when number two popped up, you could just see it. He was like, oh, wow, this is real. He's like, where's Washington? Is that near Philly? I think it hit him in real time. I also saw a lot of people saying that he was like, you know, he's a very no nonsense, all business type of guy. So that was an all business response. I do think he had a little bit of like, oh man, I'm not going to go to Utah, but it leads itself to a situation. We were already texting about this. I mean, if you're Washington, maybe you call up, you know, and kind of see what they're willing to offer because obviously Utah is in love with him. There's also the other wrinkle where Carlos Boozer is a scout for Utah and obviously has his son in the top three. And played for the jazz for a while. Right. So like there may be something where they're happy there at number two and they're going to get Cam Boozer, which means Peterson could even fall back to a three, four range depending on what Memphis likes. So I mean, I just think there's a lot of conversations to be had, which makes, you know, the one, two, three, four situation even more fun. Yeah. Yeah. House and I, we've already kind of ruined the podcast with a bunch of texts about this already. And basically as soon as it all settled down, it's like, all right, House, let's say Utah really wants that number one pick. You only have to drop down one spot and you could just take Darren Peterson and just make sure he doesn't put creatine in his creation drinks and creatine in his green juices and just stays away from creatine. It took him a long time to come up with that excuse. You know what I mean? It was a good one. I was like, you know what? I tried out the creatine a little bit and it really screwed me up. Yeah. Yeah. It's not for everybody. We've seen it happen in all of Bing Griffin. He had too much creatine, one tournament. It was losing his mind. So I mean, it's happened before we've seen it in sports. I recommended it to Kevin Wilds while I was, when I was trying it out and now I think he's still doing it. I think he's all in on it. Well, maybe it works for him, but you know, the innovation for Peterson was to wait. He waited enough time for like the stink of how his season played out to deliver the excuse six, seven weeks. We're all done with March Madness. We're not thinking about Kansas basketball anymore. Here is what was going on. We knew that there was a true story. Somebody was going to give us the, so I admire the innovation. The revelation. Yeah. The one thing I will say, nobody with the Wizards are not calling anybody. Tate, I mean, Tate said maybe the Wizards called. The Wizards phone is sitting here. Yeah. They're taking AJ and you call them. If you want to call the phones right here, you can call. We'll listen. Why wouldn't we're a rational Joe house? I'll take the call. And you know, the funny thing is the threads. So from so many different sources, my phone's been buzzing relentlessly and it's been all these congratulations, but everybody is wondering out loud about Utah because, you know, they made that big investment in DeBanta. And by they, I mean, Ryan Smith and BYU made an economic investment in DeBanta being physically in at BYU by BYU with the idea that he might, if the ping pong ball is bounced their way. They took him from Massachusetts. Yeah. And he went to prep school in Utah and ended up at BYU. And this has been a thing that's been going on. I don't remember if it's four years or five years. And it was always like, wow, if they could ever get AJ, they're taking them. They're really familiar with them the whole thing. It's also weird. Somebody is this excited to go to Utah. We haven't had that a lot in the league in the last 50 years. It hasn't been a lot of people panting to go their house, but we were, I sent you all the picks Utah has. So Utah has been building all this stuff, hoping to do a 125 cents in the dollar type of trade. They have a swap at the Lakers next year. On 27, they have the best two of Minnesota, Cleveland, or Utah. They have a swap with Cleveland on 28. They can do the best two of Cleveland, Utah, and Minnesota. And I'm saying two different, two of the three, the top two. They have their own first. Then they have this really nice Phoenix first in 2031 house. Devin Booker will be like 34 years old, making $80 million. On top of some other guys they have. So my thing is, let's say they come to you and they give you two of those picks. They give you like sense of awe, and they give you number two just to move up one spot. And you take Darren Peterson. Are you sweating that? No, no. Two of those picks. I was wondering if the offer, if I was being too greedy, looking for something like Ace Bailey, the number two, and one of those. That's the other way I could go. One of those future firsts. So just Ace Bailey and number two to move up to one. Didn't Ace Bailey want to go? No, I need one of those future firsts as well. And one of those future firsts. Ace Bailey looked pretty good. Tate, didn't Ace Bailey want to go there last year? Yeah, that was where he was angling. That's what a lot of people thought that his agent was trying to get him to go there. So yeah. I mean, honestly, Ace Bailey and two for one is a lot. Because I thought Ace looked good last year. I don't know if I would do that if I was Utah. My thing is, I would trade back just because we've been arguing about which of these four guys are going to be the best guy for four months. And I don't even know if we have an answer. Tate, where'd you land? Yeah, I mean, I do think that AJ is number one. I feel comfortable with AJ, right? He wants to be the number one pick. That's the number one test. Do you want to be the number one pick? AJ obviously wants to be the number one pick. Peterson has worked his way through the media with these exclusive interviews to put out that he also obviously is willing to be the number one pick. I thought the interviews at the Drey, what an awkward TV experience that is at the lottery, by the way, with like everyone. Can we talk about this? Yeah, please. So you have a half hour. You have a half hour. You're a ESPN. You have a half hour for the lottery. And then the next game starts. You spend the first 15 minutes having awkward interviews with the people sitting there, showing all the representatives, and then doing the same ping-pong ball video they show every year. The lottery happens. Four massive things happen in the lottery, and they just throw it right through the game. And it's like, what are you guys doing? How can you have handled this worse? I would have had the lottery at three and then 15 minutes of discourse. Anyway, go on. So we both had AJ. We both think AJ should be the first pick, but it's not like a Wemby situation where you wouldn't bet your life he's going to be the best player in 10 years from this draft. It could be any of these four guys, right? Yeah. I mean, I think you can talk yourself. I mean, I've seen boards that have Boozer at number one, right? That seems like he's the safest of the four picks, right? Hollinger had him one. Yeah. Hollinger had him one, which is a, you know, I think it's a fair point because if you look at Boozer's record, right, he's won at every single level. Obviously, he was national player of the year this year. You like the way that he carries himself. He is going to be a really good player at the next level. I think Caleb Wilson obviously is tantalizing. I know you don't like the hairstyle that he had there at the end of the day. Oh, let's say ambitious, ambitious hair. I think he cleans it up and I think he's going to be all right. But I mean, just the high flyer and Sean Kemp has been thrown out there. KG has been thrown out there. Obviously, McGrady a little bit. I also think I see a lot of people with Caleb at the four. I think he's going to end up being a wing. I think he's going to end up being a three. So I think he's one of those guys. Really? Yeah.哎哎哎哎哎哎哎哎哎哎哎哎哎哎哎哎哎哎哎哎 We told him we said he was the Kauai of guards. So again, you can kind of argue the Kauai of guards house. Yeah. Yeah. I could take the Kauai of guards. I'm not sure he didn't show enough Michael Myers. He wasn't enough of a killer this season. I think it should be. I think it should be first, but I also feel like if you end up with Peterson and more stuff, that's a nice place to be. And we've talked about this before with Tate and Kyle Mann, we're on. But the Peterson High School tape is out of control. It's out of control. And he looks like he's going to be Kobe Bryant when you watch this stuff. And I thought, see, Mike, he had a little too much weight this year. And we were talking, it just felt like he could never get going this season, which, of course, makes you nervous to take him one. But it also feels like he could just be spectacular. Now, it also feels like he didn't want to learn the college game. I mean, I know that's a little bit banal, but I just feel like it's such a different sport. It was just like, all right, I'll just skip this stage. I totally agree, Tate, that what he showed us body language wise, attitude wise is my single goal is to not get hurt. I will do this thing that is a required step. I will fulfill the requirement. Present, present. He raises hand. Are you here, Mr. Peterson? Mr. Peterson is here. He's present. And that's it. Get me the F out of here. I want to go be a pro basketball player. And here we are. The VP of Common Sense would be a little nervous about the Wizards taking a guy who's already had major cramping issues and questions about his demeanor and his body. You're talking about the old. We're going to read us. Those are the old Wizards. That's not John Wall. That's old stuff. I don't know how we're in the present, baby. One of the things I love about the band says there's just no way like he's already built like a 28 year old man. And I don't even know what his body is going to look like, you know, five, six years from now, but he's just got. Hey, there's some there's some interesting stuff with him. There's some defensive metrics that aren't great with them. Hollander pointed to like for how athletic he is. Why isn't more stuff happening on that end? But I just to me, he feels like the perfect kind of he could play the three with the four. He's physical. He rebounds. He, you know, I think he's really competitive. He really wanted to be the number one pick. I think that matters house. And if you drafted him and he actually could talk himself into going there. I just feel like it's a set thing. You know what it is. I don't know what the variance of it being bad. I don't really see. With the band said, no, no, no, no, that's why you're the ceiling with him feels like to me, to me, the highest ceiling, just acknowledging that Caleb Wilson is a more of an unknown quantity because the injury limited how much we got to see him against the highest comp and especially in March madness, where you really get a chance to see like, okay, these are stakes. The guys are ramped up. Let's see it. So we were deprived of that with Wilson, but I feel like ceiling wise, the bands is that it's all the whole thing. And he will definitely be cool with being here in Washington. AJ strong. There's we've had, we've had some more luck lately with nickname acronym, acronym, first names. Um, dare I say, if he comes in right away, and I think, he's a 30 minutes a game guy next year, right? In the NBA. Yeah. 100%. I mean, he could be like a 15 and eight, like a 16 and eight, something like that. Is that conceivable? Yeah. And if you look at the front court with Washington, that's a fun front court, like as far as size, you know what I mean? Like those three guys, he put him and him and SAR and Anthony Davis, we trade young and George and how's trade Johnson? Like that's, that's a team. Yeah. The floor is VJ edge comb. I think what we got out of edge comb this year for a guy that showed up playing big minutes. Yeah. Yeah. Ready. And he took that team. He more than any other player on that team transformed what they were going to be capable of for this entire season. It, you know, when we did the, the, the dumb October, what the hell is Philly going to be? We had no idea. We know how excited they were about edge comb, but he showed up and within two weeks, it's like, Oh, look at this back court. They have maxi and edge comb and it, it resuscitated the fan base. And if we get anything, I think that's the floor for DeBanza. Now, maybe that, maybe, you know, I'm, I'm, I'm supply right now, baby, but we like SAR. Oh yeah. There's, you know, some of the metrics of them were pretty bad, but I like them. He passed that test. No, his shop locking stuff. That's what you want. Threes and shop locking. All right. We'll get back to Washington because number two is Utah. Um, Washington had a 52% chance to be in the top four and Utah was at 45. What a crucial coin flip. I don't know if you guys know that they had a coin flip with Sacramento to decide who was four and who was five and who got which set of things. And that ended up getting them the second pick. Um, Danny ain't showing, I'm intimately familiar with as a guy that ran my team forever and just the way he thinks he always goes for superstar ceiling. He's always, if, if he feels like somebody has a chance to be great, he's going to take that guy and he's not going to care where it is in the draft. Like he was the one guy that would have taken to ran over Odin. It's just that, that's just how he rolls. Tate, is it possible? He'll look at the high school stuff from Peterson. He'll throw away the Kansas here and be like, this guy's Kobe Bryant. We got to take him. Yeah. I think there's a high chance just because, I mean, I think a lot of times the college tape is just like additive. It's not the definitive case. And I think a lot of times for fans, it is the definitive case because that's what most people see. They don't see all the stuff beforehand. They've seen these kids since they were 16 years old. And obviously Danny Angel was there the last time the number one pick was traded in Markel folds. And there was a lot of people that, you know, were a little upset in the moment that that happened. And then it turned out to be one of the best trades ever for Boston to be able to get Tate them there at number three. So he's been there. He's done that. He's seen that. And I think with Peterson, it just sort of depends on how he interviews maybe with age and if age likes to fit. But I just think it can be tantalizing with that. It's going to be a boring interview. I'll tell you that much from what we see from Peterson. But maybe he likes that. You know, maybe I don't think he'll be talking about his favorite podcasts and some books he's read lately. I'm not going to be like Tom Canipa. No, sure. Yeah. Yeah. That's another one. Look, he fits in with the team they have. Because now they have Jaren Jackson, they have Mark and then, you know, they have Kessler who's coming back. Yep. They got a great, great year from their young point guard. What they're actually missing is a two guard and a scorer and like a closer. Which that's what he played at Kansas. He played the two. Right. So House, maybe they're just happy. Happy. Maybe this all because there's a world where you just look at the board and you go, Washington. Happy to take the Bansa. Utah. Super excited to take there in Peterson. Memphis. Couldn't be happier to have Kim Booser, like the most Memphis pick ever. And then Chicago like, sure, we'll take Caleb Wilson and that's just how it goes. Right. And Booser is kind of a grown up, you know what I mean? Just feels like a guy that's not going to have any sort of issues. You can make him a franchise type guy. Cedric Coward fits in well with him. Jayleigh Weller. Great Ryan Grizzlies. Yeah, they're back. It works. I could see that. You agree with that House? I sure do. I sure do. And especially Peterson's athleticism at the pro level and him with an ace Bailey, like there is something there in Utah that you could point to and say, you know, let's go ahead and see if we can win some games. Well, I think that team because, you know, that poor coach that, you know, Will Hardy, Will Hardy, we haven't seen him really get to cook. He only gets to cook every once in a while. He cooks through three quarters and then he has to turn the oven off for the last two years. He was going to be cooking meth if he had to cook that team for three more years. It was breaking bad. Yeah, it really was. He was losing his mind probably. But I mean, they got lucky last year with ace that they ace tried to do that stare down and get them to go to Washington. They just stared him down like you're coming here. His agent video, one of the classic draft videos. Yeah. Right. But they've never moved up in a lot or I don't think in the history of the franchise until, until this draft. So Peterson, I would assume, but I'm telling you, man, if Danny watches enough Caleb Wilson is just like, this guy's, this guy's the next Yanis. We're taking him. Like they'll take him at two. He gives zero fucks. I know they're a process. Like it's that there's never leaks with Danny because he'd always takes him a while to figure out who he likes. He's also his son's running a team and obviously the owner is going to have a say. There's a bunch of people involved, but they're, Danny's going to be the Yoda of this situation. I think from a fun NBA standpoint to Bansa one and then Peterson go in Utah two is fun. Boozer at three. And then we don't think Memphis will trade that pick or anything. And then, you know, Chicago, just hilarious. They're going to actually end up with a fun team despite themselves. And it will go nowhere near the luxury tax, but they'll play with pace. They have a Taylor Jenkins went there and with Wilson, the only question I have Tate, there's no chance he drops to five. Right. I just think that anything is possible with the bulls, you know, I could totally see the bulls like having. Cause what, cause what there's from Illinois? Exactly. I mean, that's like not, not nothing in their backyard. They talk themselves into Walker, great passing vision, all that sort of stuff. And then somehow Caleb Wilson falls to the Los Angeles Clippers and gets to work under Kawhi Leonard, a guy who I think, you know, as far as the hand size, I think it's a little bit similar. And I think it would be a perfect kind of tutelage situation where he could learn under and Tyler, obviously doesn't really lean on the rookies too much, but it could be a good situation and a good spot for Caleb Wilson. But the bulls, I mean, I know they just got a new, you know, kind of front office situation. So maybe, but at the end of the day, the ownership is the ownership. And they've, you know, done some things in the past that are head scratching and that could happen yet again there. Or not done some things. Let me ask you guys this. We'll have a chance to talk to Verna as this all plays out. Oh yeah. Memphis strikes me as a team that might be more inclined to take a swing on Caleb Wilson rather than the tried and true steady cambooser. Cause like, does cambooser move the needle for Memphis? I mean, they have an interesting little nucleus. There is still yet whatever they resolve with jaw, whatever assets they get back, but they're still super in transition. They're not a team that's going to be looking to try and win, I don't think 45 games next year, right? They don't have the roster for that. So if, if, if Caleb fits like that way, where Cedric Coward is, like you're, you're just building a really athletic kind of front court situation. I feel a little Memphis-y. Boos are dropping the four would be out of control. Well, that's why I'm asking Tay like, yeah, that's like, he just feels like, I don't know what his ceiling is, whether he's ever going to make a first team on beer or anything like that. And I probably like him a whiff less than others, but I still feel like it's like he's getting guaranteed 22 and 10. You know, and he'll be super competitive. Yeah. He's always produced. I mean, I think that's the real thing with cambooser, where you almost talk yourself out of it, even though it's right there in front of you. And you're like, he's going to be an all-star, you know, he's going to be a guy that's in that conversation. So I really, I think Memphis just plays it safe there. But I like what you're saying. How it's like, hi IQ, transition type team, Coward, Caleb Wilson, that could be a fun combo. I could, I wonder if Wilson could just single hit the rejuvenate job or in. Um, well, you look at Chicago, Wilson falls to Chicago at four. And for the people listening who haven't really followed this draft, boozers like the steady 22 and 10 really knows how to play the game. He's just going to elevate wherever he is. And Caleb Wilson is like the wild card who got hurt before much madness. All time incredible college athlete, like just nuts. Like he feels like he came out of like the Faisalama gym era. And there's like pieces of Sean Kemp. Tate mentioned Tracy McGready a little bit. He doesn't have the three point shot yet. There's feels like there could be a little, little chat maybe defensively if he could ever figure out that side of it as like a four. I know the defensive stats weren't awesome for him, but, uh, but I'm looking at Chicago with Giddy and Kobe White and I had a soon move. Oh no, they don't have two or three guys. I got excited for a second. I'm like, wait a second. What is going on? Yeah. Now they don't think about that though. Matas and Caleb. Yeah. Booze Ellis and Kailah who's not getting just his minutes. Yanked around by Billy Donovan. Men. Where all right, we're going to take a break and we're going to come back and talk about the number five pick, which became one of the most fascinating things that has happened in the recent history of the lottery after this. The Bill Simmons podcast is brought to you by Fandell. It's been a wild playoff run. Not over yet. Fandell wants to bring you closer to the court to make all of that action come to life for you, the basketball fan. Fandell, the best place to bet the teams, players, plays during NBA post season, build the same game parlay for a shot at a bigger payout or try live betting and jump into the action right after tip off. Whatever you want. That's the whole point of live betting. Download the Fandell Sportsbook app right now and play your game. Twenty one plus select states are 18 plus DC, Kentucky, Wyoming. Game problem. Call 1-800-GAMBO or call 888-789-7777 or visit ccpg.org slash check. This episode is brought to you by Mikalov Ultra. You know what my favorite thing about the playoffs is? I like during and it's usually maybe a game for might even be a game five, game seven, everyone's nervous. There's a different level of energy, but game four, game five. For one of the two teams, there's this realization with like five minutes left in the fourth quarter where it's like, uh-oh. Our fate is suddenly in real flux right now. Who's stepping up? What are we going to do? What's calm down? Can we rise to the moment or are we going to shrink from it? It's as great as opening up a Mikalov Ultra, a nice cold one, crisp, refreshing, the ultimate prize. Plus as the official beer partner of the NBA, they're giving fans a chance to win court side tickets, custom merch and more. You could be at one of those games when the pressure rises. Mikalov Ultra, Superior is worth playing for. Enter now at mikalovultra.com slash court side. Mikalov Ultra court side 2526. No purchase necessary. Open U.S. Residents 21 plus begins on October 1st, 2025 ends on June 30th, 2026 multiple intra periods. See official rules at mikalovultra.com slash court side for free entry, entry deadlines and prizes and details. Clippers make this crazy trade with Zubats to the Pacers. And it's top five protected or top four protected. And at that point, it looks like the Pacers are going to be the worst team in the league. Cool. There's a second first round pick of the. Oh, one. Joe House is back. We're back. Joe House. All right. Indie goes four and 21 in their last 25. The Wizards go one and 24. Indie lost 16 straight and somehow didn't end up with the first spot. Falls back three spots, gets jumped, loses the pick for, for Zubats. And this fifth pick is no joke, Tate, because we move with the fifth pick. There's a secondary guys, Wogler, we mentioned a cuff who might be a next Kyrie for all we know. Buries is in there. People love Fleming's. Like this is like a potential all NBA someday guard. And Indie just doesn't have the pick now because they traded for Zubats. I just a staggering kick in the balls. An all timer. Yeah, it's an all timer. Can you put your conspiracy hat on here, Bill, and talk about this? Because obviously. I don't think by the hat, I don't, there's no conspiracy, right? I mean, I'm just saying ABA wise, right? The Pacers, do you think there's a little bit of like they will never let the Pacers get what they deserve because they're an ABA team? That's where I'm going here. I'm just like. Wow. Never even thought of that. They've never won the lottery. Yeah. I think that conspiracy. Well, can we talk about the protection? That's the thing. The protection is the thing. They basically made it seem like, hey, there's four players we love in this draft. And we get. But that's not how you can think. Because if you end up with the fifth pick and you have to give it away, nobody in the in the in the planet would trade Zubats for the fifth pick in this draft. I don't think they were trading for the sixth, seventh or eighth picks, honestly. But yeah, they took this chance with the percentages tape and what happens? They get screwed and now they have no pick. And for the Clippers, this is a miracle. Yeah, it's amazing. Literally a miracle. Yeah, it's amazing. And then obviously there's a lot of like, you know, I think this is Pablo Torres nightmare. Shout out to Pablo. This is he did not want to see this. The Clippers getting some sort of, you know, momentum. Yeah, they got something. It's basically their number one pick, right? I mean, they were able to they knew what it was. OK, House has got video again. That's good. Yeah. So that happens. Also, you had, I think it was the president of basketball operations for the Pacers kind of put out a tweet to Kevin Pritchard. Yeah, Kevin Pritchard was just like, I'm so sorry that this happened. We thought that we had good juju on our side. Turns out we didn't. That's never good when you see that as a fan of the Pacers. And, you know, we talked about like that would be the perfect spot for like a Peterson or Caleb Wilson or a boozer, one of these guys to kind of slot into this Pacers team that can make a real run as a title contender. And now we're talking about the Clippers and then being able to get the fifth pick and I mean, you could talk yourself into a cup pretty easily there at number five. And I think that would be a big swing and a nice pick up for Balmer and the Clippers. So it's funny. I think they would take Waggar because because he's six, six. Yeah, like a cup. So how's that? I love a cup, obviously. But you have Darius Garland already. And I think they really like Garland. Like he had some real juice when he showed up. That if you love they cuff, I think you'd have to trade Garland, which would get a little complicated. But don't you think Waggar could play with Garland? It's not ideal, but he can play on or off the ball and he's six foot six has some size like has the shooting. I don't know. Yeah, I feel like he could do that. Right. Yeah, 100 percent. I mean, I think it fits as far as like those two guys being able to play together. It's not redundant at any point. And, you know, there's a team that's sitting there at number seven that I know that loves a cuff. And probably would be willing to trade up potentially if you feel good about them wanting them so bad to get there at number five. And maybe you get some more. The Kings really want a cuff. I think that's pretty much a known entity at this point. So if they're willing to move up, that could be something there where you could get even more assets from a franchise. That's a little bit desperate. So but I really like Waggar. The only time that we saw Waggar struggles when Yaxel Lindaborde pretty much locked them up on defense. And he's five years older than him. So I mean, I think there's going to be some growing pains, but he'll get there eventually. House, I had this in my notes with Sacramento. If you're the Clippers, you could just move back to spots and take Buries seven. And also you get to trade with Sacramento, which has been one of the most foolproof ways to get better over the last 40 years and pick up a future pick from them. I would think about that because Buries, I like, as you guys know, I love Buries, but but if you're staying at five, I think you I think what Waggar has to be the pick. Both of those are tremendous options for the Clippers. And it is proof positive that Karma is on the Clippers side, even in the face, Oh, even in the face of all of the great circumvention, allegation, navigation, somehow or another, the Karma landed in a certain way. I suspect that the league is going to land in the same place, which is we are going to get on with Clippers basketball. Because the worst case scenario here is they've decided horrible things happen and they just wipe the, we lost house again, wipe the, they just wipe the Clippers pick away, the number five pick. And that's that. I had a, I had a doozy for you guys. Well, first of all, the Clips turned Zubats, who I didn't even think was playing that well this year and Harden, who didn't want to be there anymore into Garland and the fifth pick in this draft. So that's just amazing. And math, right? Yeah. And math, or if they end up resigning them. Yeah, that's true. They have to pass now because they could potentially trade Kauai and trade Garland and just blow it up and try to rebuild the round young guys. They could also swing the other way and make a Yanis play here. Because they're going to have some cap space to have the fifth pick, which I think is attractive. And there might be a way to send that and make that the focal point of some sort of trade and take Yanis this thing on and try to keep Kauai and Garland and build around those three. Does that excite you at all? Yeah, it excites me. I just want Yanis to be saved. I want Yanis to go somewhere. You were talking with Nick Wright about the Hawks and just, you know, if they get that top four pick and trying to package away, where Jaylin ended up going to Atlanta and maybe, you know, Yanis ends up going to Boston. I thought that was a tasty idea that I thought that, you know, I started putting that together in my brain. I'm like, that makes sense. That's kind of a win-win for everybody. This is obviously played out a little bit differently here. But if you're Milwaukee, I mean, I felt bad for, you know, shout out to Mallory Eden sitting there, you know, at the number 10 pick, it just looked like, you know, it was like Warriors, Bucks, like some of those teams on the back end that maybe they slot in and were able to, you know. I never, yeah, none of them hit this year. None of them hit. So I mean, this is a way for them to be able to get something for the future that gives them a little bit of optimism and also saves Yanis because I'm tired of seeing Yanis be wasted, you know, after 2021, I thought we were going to have like, wow, Yanis could end up being the greatest power for it ever. And it is really derailed, you know, over the past three seasons, obviously injuries are involved. And then the coaching, shout out to Doc Rivers. I think he tried his best to make things happen. But great BS podcast. Glad he's back on the pod. We need him here. It all worked out. His back where he belongs on the, on the pod every once in a while. And if Yanis goes to Clippers, that's great for the league too. Yanis going to the Clippers and being in Los Angeles with Kauai, who's on a similar window of, I think, you know, how many more years is he going to have with Garland and they could patch around. They've been really good at building veterans around there. You know, one of the outcomes of today was it feels like it really improved the Celtics chances to get Yanis. And that's what they want to do because you saw Atlanta who ended up in the eight spot. But that was a team that if they moved into the top four, I feel like they would have been and play for Yanis potentially. Golden State was another one. If Milwaukee had gotten up there with Atlanta and somehow both ended up in the top four, maybe they keep Yanis at that point. But none of that stuff happened. So I would say the Celtics are probably, probably the favorite at this point to get Yanis unless Dallas got aggressive. But I don't really know what the other team would be. Do you think of any? You're Charlotte. No, right? No, I just don't think Yanis is going to be happy there. And then the heat is basically just like the walkie-south. Yeah, you just trade spots with them at that point. I don't think that really works out. And as far as like the narrative of Yanis's career, you get Boston behind you. You kind of get the media, the chain, you know what I mean? Like, you can really, you can really change the whole conversation about who you are as a player because like the numbers tell a great story about Yanis, you know what I mean? And like what he was able to do in 2021, you add in two more titles and you do it in Boston and you're kind of like the one A and Jason Tatum, you know, coming off injuries, kind of like, you know, I wouldn't say one B, but let's just say Yanis ends up being the guy there. I just think it's a great story for a narrative purpose. And I do think Yanis, I know he turned his nose up to being in the face of the league. And I think that was a bad move in general. But I think that can really salvage everything as far as like the Yanis story. Yeah, he's in that where the KG 2007 spot only he has the title. But once this next act and it's time to lead the team he's on, still maybe Golden State would be the other one. I mean, Golden State's at 11. And they have the butler expiring, but I, unless they just gave the rest of their drafts in a way to get him, I don't know how that excites Milwaukee. Milwaukee's going to want something back. Yeah. So whether it's Jamie Marquette guy goes back to Milwaukee. I know, but he's hurt. Yeah. There's no, there's no real sell there. And if you get Jaylen back, you're getting a guy who's going to be second team on VA, but you're putting him on a bad team. Maybe he'd like that. I don't even know. Or he's in a three-team line. I don't know what he likes after it. Yeah, who knows? He's all over the place. He had his favorite year of his career, but there were different reasons for it. Can you walk us through five, six, seven with Wogler and A cuff and Fleming's and Burris. And then it gets a little weird. And then somehow Phylan has just gotten pushed back when I feel like maybe he, he could be the guy that jumps. Is there, in that whole water, is there anybody you think is in the wrong spot? Yeah. It's a cluster of guards. And, uh, Mackell Brown Jr. was sort of the guy that I thought was the guy at number five going into the season. He had his own version of a Darren Peterson situation where he had the back spasms and Louisville fans and kind of the people around the team were a little upset about him not being able to play. And there was some kind of back channeling that was happening there, but I still think Mackell Brown Jr. has a lot of upside. So I think he could be one of those guys that ends up being a steal. If you get him at eight, nine, 10 range, let's say the Hawks get him at eight. I think that's a really nice pickup for them. I like Wogler at five. Um, I think Darius A cuff is the most explosive and like the guy that could really become a superstar. I mean, you even saw when they did the graphic on ESPN, the top four pigs, they cut out Kayla Wilson and put eight. I couldn't believe that. That was at the J. Billis list or that wasn't the ESPN list. That was just the J. Billis only list. I think it was a bill list. And that's why they did that. But I, for me personally, like knowing Caleb a little bit, I do think that Caleb is almost better when he's disrespected. Like if Caleb were to go number one, I would actually be concerned, but can go in number four, number five. I feel like that's the best case scenario for his career. Cause he kind of, he's like at the MJ thing where he like needs a grapes with people to kind of fire himself up. So, um, I think that a cuff going at five would be great. Burry's is a little bit older, but it just kind of feels like a surefire guard that you can trust even off ball at times. If you need him to be there, Phylon, and we know what he is. Burry's is, we know he's a two. He's a two. And I think he's obviously showed a lot at Arizona last year and a really, really good scorer and player Phylon's an electric scorer. Um, but honestly of that group, I feel like my Kell Brown Jr. is, is the guy to me that gets me excited. You know what I mean? That could it be in a, in some of these double figures and some of the mack drafts, I'm kind of shocked that, I mean, I know a mint fell for, for, you know, a myriad of reasons. I know Michael Brown fell for some of the stuff I mentioned with the injuries, but if you've watched Michael Brown when he's on, um, he is really, really good and he's got the size. Would you compare him to? That's a good question. I'm, I'm trying to think, I mean, he's kind of, I mean, he's bigger. That's the other part. I think he's physically bigger. I mean, um, I mean, Drew Holiday, maybe a little bit potentially, uh, you know, a Nim hard. Is that kind of defensive player? I think he could get there. I think he's offensively great. I just think that Michael Brown Jr. has a lot of upside. And I just think that the more I see him fall, the more I'm just like, if you're in the eight to 12 range, because I think 12 is the line. Like when things go bad is at 12. I think that's when you're like, you know, in okay, see getting 12, I'm fascinated to see like, do they just take a swing on a Bennett's thirst? Do they take a acquaintance? Like who is that player that the thunder go for? We're all like, Oh, of course they take Steinbach from Washington and he turns into debt left shrimp, 2.0, you know what I mean? Like who, who is the player there at 12? But as far as that clutter of guards, I think they all have different kind of traits that you could fall in love with. But, uh, I'm like a wag where a cuff first and then from there, you know, you can kind of pick which one you fancy, but Michael Brown, I, uh, I'm excited to see what he looks like. So a cuff, if he goes to Brooklyn at six. Yeah. The Kings will be sick. Well, they don't have their 27, uh, Phoenix, Phoenix or Houston, one of them can switch, Houston can switch with them. So they kind of have to be good next year, right? A cuff is an investment in somebody that you're hoping, you know, it can be pretty special. Who knows if he's, it's pretty rare for a point guard to come into the league and be awesome right away. And I, you know, there's, there's some feeling and some feedback about the Nets that they might want to say, fuck it. Let's, let's get, we're tired of the ladder. It just didn't work out for us two years in a row, right? We tried to, tried to game this system twice. Each time we got screwed, let's just trade the pick for a star. I'm going to read you some names. Sadly, I think house might be dead. I'm honestly, they're getting it fixed. Yeah, they're getting it fixed. So part of my mind is concerned about house right now. I think he's on too much of a high. I think maybe the DEA, maybe if he puts something in his bloody marriage and the drug police came, Palo Banquero for the six pick, that feels like a no for Orlando. I'm just giving you some guys. Okay. I think it's a no, but I mean, Palo would say yes. Right. Well, but I guess for Orlando, it's like we're way over the tax. We get to reboot a little bit. That's a no. I'm just listing names. So good man to me, people watching. Jaylen Williams on OKC, which would allow OKC to get out of all this money stuff that they have coming. They could grab somebody awesome at six. I don't think they would trade Jaylen Williams for six. If we're moving to the top three, that becomes a different story. But six now, crossing him off, Mowgli gets a little more interesting, especially if Cleveland gets bounced in five. And we've seen Mowgli kind of level off and just be an 18, nine guy and Cleveland's way over the tax. And could they just reset this? You let hard and go. Maybe you trade Mitchell and this is just a complete reset. Jamal Murray at 15 was the most fun one where you just put a cup on Denver and you put Jamal Murray on Brooklyn. You have a vet. Giannis has to be mentioned. I don't know why he would go to Brooklyn if nobody was there. And then the only other one that's like a Donovan Mitchell, Jaylen Brown. I don't see how that makes sense for Brooklyn. Yeah. The Palo one is the one that got my attention the most. Interesting. Yeah. Just because I mean, the Palo thing just is fascinating. I know they got to figure out the coach. I mean, you got the Wagner situation. I know Orlando would be sick to hear that, but I, I'm just fascinated by him because he can turn it on. And when he does turn it on, you're like, Oh yeah, there he is. There's the franchise, you know, top 10 potential player. And then there's times where he's a little bit off. And I don't know. He's a fascinating situation. I also feel like all the Giannis examples outside of Boston or the Clippers, as we mentioned, it just feels like, you know, Will Smith and Fresh Prince, when he's in the room by himself, you know, it's like, how many, how many of those situations can we send Giannis into? I would feel bad for him if that were to happen again. And how many years does they have left? Yeah. Right. Like if you're trading form, what are you actually getting back? Sacramento at seven, I think they just take whatever point cards left. They don't have a point card. I think they're going to try to trade up. I think they're going to try to get the five and get eight. I really do. Wow. I mean, that would be a godsend for the Clippers. You end up with this weird trade you made. Somehow you get the fifth pick. You move backwards to get seven and for Burris, who you probably would have wanted anyway, and then you get more assets and you trade it with Sacramento. There's no way that doesn't work. Atlanta is another one that I think could trade up if they got excited about a point card. There are also a team, Jalen's from Atlanta, and that has to be mentioned. Yeah. If this was straight up, Jalen, Dyson Daniels in a contract and the eighth pick, whatever that is. How much do you think that's possible to happen at this point with Jalen Brown? I mean, because you guys are talking about it. I mean, he is so smart and cerebral, and I do feel like some of this stuff is targeted and pointed on purpose. Is he kind of sent the message himself that he's like, I would be interested in something like that? Because otherwise- He's doing- You've been following sports long enough now. He's doing the thing where there's just mixed signals anywhere, and it's hard to tell whether he just wants everybody to be talking about him or whether he actually wants to leave or whether he actually wants to stay. There's no way you're just trying to grab it all over the map, trying to see what's happening, and you have no idea. Yeah. I honestly don't know. Somebody asked me for percentages of if I thought Jalen was going to be in the Celtics next year, and I was like, I don't know, 50-50? That's crazy. That's what it feels like. It feels like a coin flip. He also wanted to find out- It'd be one thing if he, when they won the championship, he did not win Conference Files MVP and Vitals MVP. I mean, he got those. I thought that would be the end of the whole thing. I'm very confused by it. Also, I'm so sad that we didn't get the Nick Celtic series after watching what the Sixers showed out. I know. I mean, my God. Jesus Christ. We didn't even talked about that. No. Well, quickly in the latter, Elena's eight. Dallas is nine, and they have Kyrie coming back, and Burris would be the dream Dallas guy here, right? Yep. Param, next to him. Not positive he's going to get all the way to nine, but that's like, oh my God, what a home run, putting him next to a flag. There's a really fun version of how this lot- The only problem is I can't figure out what Elena would take. I assume at eight, they would take a point card. Milwaukee's just taking whoever the highest ceiling guy is left, because they're going to be in a rebuild at 10. And then, can you walk me through Yaxel at Golden State at number 11? Because that just seems like everyone's just going to pencil him in there. Can he go higher than that? He's going to be 24. Yeah. I know Kyle Mann had him, I think, eight or seven or eight on his big board. And Yaxel is one of those guys where he is older, which makes sense for Golden State, right? It's a team that is obviously a very old team. And I know Draymond just had that moment with Barkley talking about, and Barkley's like, old teams don't win anymore. So, you know, it's a young man's game. But I think Yaxel, my only issue with him going to Golden State is, yes, he is older, but like the maturity is not older. Like his maturation does not match the age. And I do feel like, you know, you're bringing another Michigan guy with Draymond, Michigan State guy, Kerr just re-signed the extension and sort of running it back. Like you don't want to recreate a whole situation and a whole problem again, where Steve Kerr is like, am I, like, where am I? I'm in the twilight zone. Like, why is this happening again? But it does like make sense on paper, defender, kind of nice insurance on the wing, you know, as Jimmy is rehabbing and getting back and he could be a nice piece for them that could be, you know, I mean, doesn't have to be a scorer by any means. But I think defensively, he's a nice cog in the machine. But I still would be a little concerned about the maturation. That would be the thing where the age seems like it matches. But I'm not sure that the way that he acts. Interesting. Well, the one that I think, so Mara, the center is anywhere from like eight to 15, depending on what this is like. That could be an OKC move too. Well, that's what, so I had him written down tentatively for OKC at 12. But I also think there's a world where they try to trade up in the top three, which I talked about Thursday. And some people are saying, because I had AJ Mitchell and 12 for the three. And some of the feedback I was getting was AJ Mitchell's contract is so good. Why would they trade him? Why wouldn't they look at Jalen Williams instead? And because he's going to be at like 45, 48, 50, and they've proven that they can be running at all cylinders, whether he's there or not. And I was wondering like, could they trade Jalen Williams to Memphis for KCP in the three? It feels like a presty kind of move, right? If you're Memphis, they're like, holy shit, we have Jalen Williams and Cedric Howard now. And if you're OKC, you're basically resetting the clock and you're getting some sort of, you're getting Boozer or Caleb Wilson, you're getting one of those guys, maybe even Peterson. Yeah. And they know they have to break it up at some point. And also it looks like it works without J-Dubb, which is crazy. And AJ has been great so far. And it's also people saying he looked like a top 50 player. So yeah, I mean, I think presty will be working the line. So I think that's a good call. I mean, but I think it 12 to me is where the line is to see because like Dailin Swains in that range, a Dai Maras in that range. We also didn't mention Kingston Flemings. Well, I do, I forgot to kind of mention in the cluster of guards, I do think Kingston Flemings is pretty fascinating too. Yeah, I don't know what to make of him. And from what the rankings are, it seems like a lot of people because we've seen a little like fears. I know he's better than fears last year, but same kind of thing, like just a young athletic fast guard. What is he? Where was we had, it felt like a big, a little more of a sampler size with Wogler and Acuff. But I know Flemings, at one point, Flemings was the most number five and everything. Yeah. Last thing I want to mention on the lottery. My aim is at 13. And if you factor in two teams, usually do something weird, right? Odds are they're going to get like Phylon or somebody good. And it just, they, it always happens. They got Crown Butler that year. They got Tyler Hero that year. They got Bam that year. They're always like kind of lingering from in this early teens range, a couple of people screw up, and all of a sudden somebody awesome. And as you know, I don't like Miami, Salomware. What about like native Mint there? It seems like he's dropping. He is dropping, but I just don't think there is the tools that are there. Like I'm not completely out on native Mint. I know that every time I see a new board, it's like native Bins down to like 18, 20 range. But there were talks last year going into the season where native Mint was going to be in the top four. He was going to be, instead of Kayla Wilson, it was native Mint. So I still think there's maybe a team that talks themselves into taking him in that 14, 13 to 15 range. All right. So I'm putting you on the spot. The best part from this draft will be 10 years from now, people are throwing this clip back in your face. I don't want to say it because I don't want it to get thrown back in his face, but I'm going to say it because why not? Kayla Wilson. That's not just a North Carolina thing. No. I mean, I honestly, I could take the blinders off and I could just say to myself, my God, this guy is incredible. So I mean, AJ, Caleb, oh, let's go. Tate just said, he thought Caleb Wilson was going to be the best guy from this ladder in 10 years. Chris Vernon is here, by the way, host of the mismatch. Future Mimphis Grizzly Chris Vernon. Located in Mimphis, winner of the third pick in the NBA draft. And I can't wait to hear who you want them to take. Oh, listen, this Boozer Wilson debate is going to feed families. My family for the next month and a half. This is going to be great because I think the expectation is it, right? The bands will go one, Peterson will go two because they don't need a four in Utah. And so the Grizzlies, they're sitting at three. That's going to be the debate. Everybody is going to try to decide whether or not they prefer a Cambuzer or they prefer Caleb Wilson. The sure thing or like what Tate says, the guy with the ceiling guy. Yeah, right. The ceiling guy. Well, so who, what's dive into the psyche of Memphis and the great grind Grizzlies that was the most beloved Memphis team of all time. Who is more Memphis of those two guys? I mean, I will say that Wilson is, Wilson is, there's two, there's two ways to go look at it, right? Because I don't think people would necessarily think Mark Gasol, but Mark Gasol is like totally embodied Memphis. Now he did go to high school there. He had an awareness of the city prior to, but he is a serious, doesn't take any crap, gets a job done, right? Like he doesn't go about it in some kind of flashy way. So I think that could be viewed as blue collar. Certainly, Wilson has got the whole like, I have this crazy motor, that kind of. So I think, honestly, I think both of them can fit in terms of like the city. Wilson's the kind of guy that like, well, like it'll be every kid's favorite player. He'll be the one smiling like he's got, he's got like a personality, whereas a boozer is obviously much more business like, but what fans respect this guys that, you know, especially in a blue collar town like Memphis, they just respect guys that give it on a step for every single night. And I think that both, both of them, you're getting both of that. Yeah, both, both of them do that, right? They go about it in different ways. Certainly, Wilson's flashier, but you can be playing against anybody and boozer is still, boozer doesn't half acid against anybody. And so it's just the idea that you like, bring your lunch pill to work and you give an honest effort every night. All right, Tate, give us your last thoughts because Double House is going to come back into the Zoom. It feels like we feel special. We've fixed the special effects. House Double during the podcast. All of a sudden he was in two feeds, but he was gone. He had two Zooms open. It was a disaster. So give us your Memphis take before we go. Who do you want them to take? Tate, I think they should take Kayla Wilson because I think Cedric Howard and Kayla Wilson is a fun combination. Also like John Morant, the high flying John Morant. That's a league past him. Yeah. Like this is, you get a perfect, you get dunk highlights galore. You got two high IQ guys with Cedric Howard. That's great. That would be fun. Hold on. Hold on. Hold on. Did a boozer play in Chicago? The dad? Yeah. Yes. I have a vague memory of him ending up there and it wasn't great. Yeah. Well, and let's pause on the whole John Morant flying around dunking. We can restart the clock on a different guy. You know what I mean? Like let's have some fun. I got to tell you, Bill, in absolute stun disbelief that Tate prefers the Carolina guy to the Duke guy. This is great. I know. I know. This is what we're, I like both guys. I like both guys. I think it's a win-win, Verno. Tate, Tate will call it like it is, but if it's a UNC guy that he loves, he's going to ride for that UNC guy. If you play in Georgia, I would say the same thing. I'll say that. Tate, we'll see you on Ringertale Gate this week. We're letting you go. Thanks for, thanks for hanging on, especially with the traumatic house disappearance. I'm glad we were able to go through that together. I'm worried about him. I hope he gets in. Thanks guys. Good to see you, Verno. Good to see you. Bye, Tate. Good to see you, Tate. Verno. How drunk is he? How drunk is house? House was fairly coherent. What? Yeah, he's popping back on right now. There is no chance if Memphis would have popped up one. I'm on this thing. Did you, did you feel like you just wanted to get in the four? Did you, were you like, Yes. Yes. Yeah. Cause that's how I think with this draft, you just want to be in the four. It was just, you know, whenever you go through miserable, punted seasons, you just want the end to justify the means. And so being in the top four meant that it was worth it. And, you know, like I'll give you, for instance, the very end of the season, and this is the worst thing to go through is when you're playing, when you're playing games where it's like, who wants to lose more. But you guys even talked about it. I recall there was a game that was coming up with Memphis versus Dallas and people were like, this thing should be on league pass. Right. And Memphis was better at the end of the season at losing on purpose. Well, now you look up at the end, Dallas is picking nine and Memphis is picking three. They had the same record. They had the exact same record at that game. And now that is how that's how sometimes this can fall. And so if you're, if you're a Dallas fan, I think you're looking at it and go, what's the point of that? We're picking nine, right? We had that, we had that the Durant year. Yeah. The worst team, terrible. And then we fell to five. We fell to the Jeff, Jeff Green pick. It was, it was devastating. Oh, Bill, I hosted a bar build with Memphis Grizzlies fans on ESPN. Well, that's right. You had the, the Mike Conley that you got Mike Conley on ESPN. We had one huge blow up doll of Greg Oden in a Memphis uniform and one huge blow up doll of Durant. And oh my God, the amount of alcohol that was consumed that night after it popped up for, and the radio broadcaster for the Grizzlies got on the stage and he's like, Chris Bosch was drafted number four and everybody was like, House, congratulations. We felt, we felt a five that year and it was like, are they going to take Jeff Green or Yeezy and Lon? And I was like, shoot me. Where's the bar? The chairman, the chairman. Bruno, who are you going to take? Who are you going to take a three? Oh, I just, all right, before you came on with Tate was on, I'll say it, like, I got six weeks of Cambus or Caleb Wilson debate. This is going to be great. This is going to be great because they're, look, I love both of them. I don't think there, there's not like a wrong choice. And that's why, that's why everybody is euphoric because if you were able to get in the top four, you're not making the wrong choice. That's how it feels at least today. As the lottery happened this afternoon, I was like, as long as we get in top four, I'm cool. I'll take any of them. I asked Tate before you guys came on, if O.K.C. offered Jalen Williams to Memphis for the third pick and took back the Caldwell Pope expiring, would you consider it? I don't think they would because I think what's happening now, I do. He was, what was he, second or third team on the A last year? Yeah, yeah, he was like 23. But he's already signed his contract, Bill. And one of the things we are learning is that I think this is all evolving where you're going to have to have major contributors on rookie contracts and probably multiple major contributors on rookie contracts. Well, that was like the Celtics with Joe Missoula in the playoffs when guys like Hugo and, oh no, he didn't play them. But tactically, I agree with you. I think you're right. That is what's going to happen because what ends up happening is because you can have second tier stars, right? So Desmond Bain signs of Max and Franz Wagner gets his under 80 million. And so then you've got, because that's not the only way you're going to keep these guys is by paying them. But there's only so many that actually probably move the needle enough. And then if you accumulate a couple of them, now that's got to be good enough, right? Like, and you're up against it. And so I do think that the value of the value now more than ever is getting these guys that are can contribute immediately, because now you get them for four years and you've got a good enough, you're able to build out, you think about even what I just went through with the Grizzlies. Yeah, the best team was when those guys were on the rookie deals. That's when you were able to have Tyus Jones and De'Anthony Melton and Kyle Anderson and Brandon Clark. And like your bench was really good too. But I think kind of the only way you can have, like you're either going to overpay a bunch of starters, right? And or you're going to have these guys on rookie deals. I think the best teams are going to be young. I do. Well, that's why the Celtics are in such an interesting spot with Jalen here. If they can try to trade, you know, that would be one of the logic, especially with the way that Tate and I talked about how the draft broke where you have like Brooklyn at six is like, well, we don't want to suck again. Can we get a star for this pick or a lane at eight? And could the Celtics end up if that's what if Jalen does want to leave or they decide maybe it's time? Is that the kind of trade that if, if Yannis isn't sitting there trying to get a young guy back on a cheaper, on a cheaper thing and then try to spend the money elsewhere is the way you agree with that house? Or would you rather keep Jalen and make a run at it? So I think you're not that far away if you have both Tatum and Brown and we kind of have a good track record of that based on this test. Jalen wants his own team. That's where the problem would. You, you, you, you at some point, somebody needs to sit down with him and get to the bottom of this. So we're not dealing with this nonsense, you know, 15 year old drama silliness, the twitch and whatever. Can that person not be Tracey McGrady? Oh, I, that was, did you see that last night? I was so happy. What the fuck was that? I watched it afterwards. I didn't actually talk to Jalen. I just saw, I noticed the body language and I was also down three one and blew it and I know how frustrated that, what are you saying? Also Jalen just said, this was the best year of his career. So his body language was bad. That was a mess, man. They should have rehearsed that one better. We know you talked to Jalen Brown. It's fine. Just fucking admit it. I want to say though, to Verna's point, that here in Washington, the defense that the decision makers offer up for why they traded Deniav via was because of wanting a core group of guys all between ages 19 and 22 that are basically on the same contract trajectory and let them all come together at the same time. That's why this number one pick is especially valuable for the Washington situation. Cause now you have four or five guys that are all in that same class, that same category. And it will say if any of them actually, you know, if it plays out, but promising SAR, promising Kishan George, promising Will Riley, promising this number one overall pick and you put a veteran or two into it and it's interesting. Well, and you really just need two of them to hit, right? Because look, Oklahoma City was able to move off of Giddy. Giddy was a hit, right? Like that's a hit pick. And then by the time it was time to pay him, they're able to swing that into Caruso because they had other ones that were going to hit. Right. Well, okay, see, we got to talk about them really quick. There's seven and O in the playoffs. We haven't talked basketball at all. We've been talking about the lottery for a full hour. There's seven O in the playoffs. I talked about Thursday night, the Seijae Mitchell situation where, you know, he's going to make $3 million a year next year. And this is a guy who feels like he could almost run his own team at this point. They're, they have the big Jalen Williams contract and big SGA and Chet and they're going to have to do some gymnastics pretty soon. They have this 12th pick, which to Verna's point, this is what you want to do. You want to keep replenishing with these guys in the first four years. And it's just, it just feels like they're going to be in this situation over and over again the rest of the decade. It's really starting to feel like they could be in the finals or the Western finals, 60 plus wins here for, I don't know, next seven, eight years. And this 12th pick is going to be a good player. And you didn't even mention, right? They got the Sorber kid. He doesn't touch the floor and Topic, he doesn't touch. I mean, they got Dan Wiggins doesn't play anymore. That guy, that guy would have played minutes for real teams this year. Oh, for sure. He's just on the side. Yeah. Well, no, we don't, we didn't play Sub-Saus. So before the ladder, I was on a FaceTime with my dad for 15 to 20 solid minutes. He's still really upset about the Sixer series and the Nick series made it worse. Watching the Knicks, which that game happened at night, it was a sweep. It was embarrassing. It was really the most humiliating weekend you could possibly have in Philly, where you not only get waxed by the Knicks, but you have 70 to 75% like for real of Knicks fans in there, just completely taking over the building. And then by the end of it, you go from a week ago, where you had the highs of this game seven. Oh my God, Paul George is in a disaster. Hey, and beads back. Maxi, Edgecomb. And it's so exciting to a week later being like, is there are going to get fired? What's going to happen? How's this going to play out? I just, my dad was just like, why didn't we do that against Philly? Why didn't we put Embiid and Pick'em Pop stuff? Why didn't we just hound Maxi? Like, what the fuck were we doing? Yeah, especially with the way that obviously they've got a ball dominant guard and Brunson is a drop coverage demolisher, right? It was like Embiid. I don't care what a statuette. He was unplayable against them because there's no, there's no good choice to make. You cannot hide him. And to Mike Brown's credit, he was not going to let him be hidden. He was going to be put in every single action until you either pulled him off the court or you just lived with us bombing you out. And they just lived with getting bombed out. Yeah. Well, they did that with the Celtics too, and we didn't make any of the threes, but I asked him if like we attacked Embiid like that house. Well, I want to be as respectful as possible, but like this version of Celtics fandom, you guys are fucking delusional. You weren't good enough. You didn't have the talent. Ogeo Nanobi, whose name I'll never get right, and Carl Anthony Towns are better than what the Celtics put out in terms of the front court. Like you had no answer for Embiid or any of the size. They had no answer for Paul George playing, playing defense. The Knicks are better. The Knicks are better than the Celtics. And the Knicks ran the sixes right out the court. I told my dad, we might have been saved by actually getting our ass kicked in a real way by the Knicks, especially if Tatum was in a hundred percent. So, well, because then it convinces you that like, hey, that we got this many wins because we gave an honest effort every night. We were tryhards, right? And tryhards when the playoffs come around, get exposed because you can't just win by with depth and playing hard. You had a team like that. What was your Memphis team like that recently? Like four or five years ago, you had a team like that. Sure. Yeah, three years ago. It's why people didn't believe in them, right? It's like because when it comes, when it comes playoff time, like there might be the one Luke Canard game or there might be the Tyus Jones game. But then, as you go up levels in the playoffs, they are just going to hone in on that. And then you're going to find out like, okay, I've actually got really five that can play in this. I don't really have 10 that can play in this. I mean, hell, even in the Minnesota series, during one of the Grizzlies best seasons, they made, they, the Grizzlies benched even Adams and played Xavier Tillman at center because Towns just played him off the floor completely. They were like, and that was in the first round of the playoffs. It's like, once you can, if you give an honest effort and you play hard every single night, you can win a lot of regular season games. And I'll give Missoula and the Celtics credit for doing that. But I think house is right. When it came down to talent, in the end, it's still, you know, the Myos Kata and it's still Sam Houser and it's still, yeah. Right. And it's not your fault. It's not the Celtics fault that MB came back and was capable of being effective. You couldn't really game plan for MB being part of the playoff series. Also, how, who could have predicted Derek White being awful? Like not like, I know, well, they put a lot of miles on him. He was awful. One of the things we were talking about was Paul George comes back from the suspension. By the way, Skip Baylis, who I can't say I'm a fan of, the playoff P, PEE was legitimately funny. I'm how some furious we didn't come up with that joke. All the years we've been together, we never showed up with that. How do we not come up with playoff PEE was so good. But he comes back and he's got his legs and Bede comes back from, God only knows where he was and he has his legs for a week. And then by the time they got to these last two Knicks games, both of them looked like the guys that we picked at our worst contract draft. So they got this little thing. I still feel like the Celtics were a little better than a try hard team when Tatum came back. I just think the whole thing of bringing them back midseason, combined with them bailing on the bench was pretty weird. You also started three guys that never play in game seven. Well, that was, yeah, that was, that was desperate. That was desperate. The run Harper start will live in infamy. Nobody, nobody still knows what happened with that. Can we talk about the Knicks quick? They've won three seven straight games. Some of it can be attributed to using Towns and running more stuff through him and some of the passing, which has been really impressive and becoming less Brunson centric. They had a shitload of threes today. They were, they were making, they were nine for 10 at one point from three in the first quarter. But, but what they've done for Towns, which I was kind of wondered why they didn't do it. Maybe I didn't, I didn't know if he had it in them, but what they did, it just feels like they're more interesting now house. It's incredible. And I give Mike Brown a ton of credit. Got to. This streak of assists that he's gotten at least six assists in however many straight games. And tonight, you know, I think he had seven assists in the first quarter. And they're real assists. They're not like, I passed you a shot and you dribbled and took a three. They're like backdoor layups and hitting guys, cutting and stuff. The thing to me with this next team is they have shown us now twice, both in two different closeout situations that they have another level. And that's what's scary for this run that they're on, cause they did the exact same thing to Atlanta. Like, how can they make all of these buckets and get rolling so quickly in a first quarter and basically put the game out of reach in a first quarter? They did it twice. That validates what they did to Atlanta. And the Sixers, you know, I think comparing them to Atlanta, that was a more formidable foe, a more form formidable situation, even though they had them down three-oh. But for sure they are, they flew today. They were at a different kind of place altogether in terms of the speed and the force that they played that first quarter and the game was over. Yeah. That's twice, right? That's twice. Twice. They've done it. A team with theoretically their backs against the wall should have a grand slam effort and they just humiliated them. They're close. I mean, you look at the seven game winning streak. They won by 16. They won by 29. They won that last game, Atlanta by 51. And then you go in this series and they had a 39-point win, a 14-point win in game three that was actually not even as close and then the blowout in this game. I like when I'm seeing blowouts in the playoffs with the team. That's a different level. That tells you like not only that, the teams that fall behind always makes me nervous. And what's weird is the Knicks were one of those teams that they always felt like they were down 8-10 with, you know, eight minutes left. Now they're blowing everybody out. They looked really good. I mean, this is probably the best time to be a Knicks fan, I would say, since 1994, where you feel like, holy shit, we have a real chance now to win. Even last year, you know, they obviously were the favorites in the Indiana series. They just beat the Celtics, but they weren't supposed to beat the Celtics. That was a weird series. Like they're kicking asses now. And I don't know. I like, I actually, do you think they go toe to toe with one of these West teams, Berna, from what you've seen? Yeah, I do. I also think that like Detroit was mega physical against them and really bodied them this year. So like if they can get through that, if they can get through, because I think it will eventually be New York and Detroit and go look at those games this year, Detroit pumped them out. And so we'll see. I do think they would need like full on OGM and OB to be able to deal with that, right? Because again, you're going up a level, but if they get past that, because they'll be battered and bruised by the time they get through there. But for sure, I mean, it's very plausible that we could see, you know, we saw them in the in season tournament for what it's worth, right? At the very end and, you know, Oh, that's so nice of you to bring that up. But you remember real thing. Yeah, I like it. But everybody cares. You want some Adam Silver, brownie points. No, they did care. Well, look, Adam Silver's on my good list. We popped up three, house popped up one. Like that's true. He's, I'm cool today. Well, you know what happened. Nick Wright and I talked about on Tuesday, all the mean stuff LeBron said about the city and they had to atone. Oh, that was a good. Yeah. Vicious comments. It wasn't just him. We got dog piled all year, all year. Dremod, Anthony Edwards. Can we build a whole term, Memphis? Can we build a four floor Mandarin Oriental or a montage? I mean, We can't do that, Verna. I don't know. You're the richest guy I know. Help us out. I'll invest in it. It's 41 nights a year plus playoffs. At least though it's going to be booked some nights. I agree. I've never heard a hotel. What is the hotel that gets this much hatred? We had influencers going down there and doing videos. This is amazing. The highest. And I mean, like in the West, I suppose the one across the street. I mean, I guess it's not up to their standard. Has NBA people, NBA people in Joe House love, love a good hotel. I stayed at that Hyatt and actually I was there at the same time because I went visited Verna, did the show with Verna. And it was during the season and both the Dallas Mavericks were in for a couple of nights and then Houston was in. I was in an elevator with Sengoon and it's a very nice Hyatt, but it is not like what they encounter in other cities. It's a super easy walk straight down the street to the. But they want big ass suites. They want good room service. They do want all that. And O's. That's what the big conspiracy is. We ain't got enough. He kind of imports them. I mean, I guess we don't have enough flights either. We're taping this before game four of Timberwool of Spurs. What Wemby did on Friday night was terrifying. This will, who knows what's going to happen in game four, but that was, I thought, such a fascinating game just for the future of the league that somebody age 22 could do that. I got this email that I thought was kind of broke my brain about about the Wemby situation we're in. Basically, so it's this guy Bradley from LA Laker fan. And he said, if you look at all the guys who became Hall of Famers who won titles, who were under the age of like 24, which is basically Magic Johnson, Kobe, Kareem, Duncan, Wade, Kauai, and Bill Russell, that's the list. All of them had an older, awesome teammate that helped them win. So Magic had Kareem, Kobe had Shaq, Kareem had Oscar Robertson, Duncan had Robinson, Wade had Shaq, Kauai had Duncan, and Parker and Janobi, and Russell had Cousine Charmin. So the question is, does this mean the Spurs are going to lose, or does this mean Wemby is great enough to break history and become the first guy? I was like, I actually don't need a Hall of Fame older teammate. I'm going to do this myself. How good is he to you, House? Like, what's the ceiling for you as we head into the next five weeks here? I hate to confess this. I'm still stuck on my old guy mindset. I mean, the evidence keeps piling up that he is a one of one capable of sort of vanquishing the entire 20, 30 year longer than that history that we've built up that there needs to be their steps to this. They need to go in and take a loss. I thought that Game 1 against Minnesota was like, welcome to the playoffs. They ran through Portland without too much trouble. The first game where they had a team come out with playoff intensity, the playoff physicality, they were constantly into Wemby's chest, at his legs the entire game was that Game 1. And yet the ability for San Antonio and Wemby, they just very coolly recalibrate, reset, and that Game 3, it really challenges the old artifice. Yeah, and maybe this is a new era, Verna. Yeah, you know, there's part of me that thinks it might be, and it goes back to what I was saying about teams being young. I remember years ago on the mismatch, I did this whole bit where I think the Celtics had lost at some point, and maybe they were like when the Jays were around 25, and I was like, look, you go back and look through the history of the NBA, and everybody's like 27 before they do it for the first time. And that is Michael Jordan, and that is LeBron James, and that is Steph Curry, and that is Shaq, and named the great player. They're generally 27 or older. And so we have this expectation, but the history of the NBA tells us that. And then Giannis did it at 26, and then Gilgios Alexander did it last year, I think at 26. And so that number may just keep getting lower. It might, like, you know what I mean? Like, because I've already had to lower it from 27. It's like, yeah, we've got to kind of got to wait until they're 27. You know, they've become men, they've probably settled down, you know, they figured out, you know, they figured out the game, they've got a lot of reps and whatever. But it's interesting if there is anybody that would be different, it certainly stands to reason that it would be him because he is, I think we throw around that he is unlike anything we've ever seen, but he's truly unlike anything in the history of the world. So why not him? I was texting Don't Ask, but I was texting about Caitlin Clark with a couple of people yesterday about. Why Don't Ask? Well, it was, it was, it was David Letterman house. We are David Letterman and John Stewart. Amazing. Of course it was. Of course it was. No, but she had a, like, not a great first game, right? And, and I was, I was thinking in my head about comparing her to Wemby, where same kind of spotlight, same kind of being tested by everyone in the league over and over again. And in Caitlin's case, it doesn't seem like she's handled it 100% well. Like last year, it felt like the entire league was, was coming at her, right? And really trying to test her and be physical with her and really see Mike, almost like the other people on the other teams, like genuinely disliked her. And she was in all these non-sports conversations and, you know, kept bringing, getting brought in as a political tool. And it didn't seem like she was enjoying that part. It felt like to me, like, I know nothing, but it felt like a little bit of her joy was gone. And some people, it's a lot when it's all getting thrown at you, right? And I look at Wemby and he's the opposite. Wemby's like, fucking bring it on. I've been training for this my whole life. You're going to be physical with me. I'm going to make you pay. And I think that's been the most impressive thing to me that at age 22, he's wired the way he's wired, where he's got so much fuck you in him already. And I think it's really hard to mess with them. Nobody resents him though. That, that, that league resented Caitlin Clark. They resented the fact that that's all anybody wanted to talk about, but they're also right. Like they've kind of been there. They've done that. They, they're, they're great players in their own, right? You know, the Asia-Wilson's of the world have been winning MVPs and championships. And yet it's like all anybody wanted to talk about was Caitlin Clark. And so it had this resentment that was built in. Yeah, there was enough you could chip away at it. Cause the difference with Wemby, right, is if you play against him or you even go see him in person, and I know we've all had the same experience, you're just like, holy shit. Like this is like even three, you saw him in person, right? It has, it's like three times crazier than I was expecting. I haven't seen him in person yet, but I just would say it's a luxury for Wemby. He's arrived in a very well established league with a well established collective bargaining agreement and pay, you know, pay structures. I mean, they brought him along how they could. The situation with the WNBA was radically different. And Caitlin Clark arrived with a giant fan base. She dragged people over to that product because they were so enamored of her college performance. She was a one of one in college in terms of that shooting. And she reminded us of Steph Curry, like, wow, we haven't seen anybody shoot like this before. And now I'm a fan of Steph. And she came over and all of a sudden there's eyeballs, lots of eyeballs on the WNBA for the first time. And they're in the middle of about a collective bargaining agreement that's about to expire. And the entire pay scale needs to be reset. And the TV deals need to be all reset. And she did bear the brunt of a lot of that because she was the one that generated the interest to propel the whole thing upwards, the prices they're getting for expansion teams. She singularly, to my way of thinking, is responsible for the entirety of that. And she missed most of last season by being hurt. And so all she had and the team did well with Adder, which is another thing. Yeah. So there's ways to pick at it. It's interesting though. Yeah. So we'll see with Wendy today. She's way more famous too. Way more famous. Do you think your wives know who Victor Wimbidia is? I think this the last couple months, I think it's been happening. Do you think your wife knows who Victor Wimbidia is? She definitely does because the TV is on basketball in my house. It's not fair for me. That's fair. I have a 15 year old too. He's not famous like she is. Bruno, was there was there any PCU that thought OKC was going to lose a game to the Lakers? No. Not after watching that stupid Houston series. I mean, that was so abominable that you watched that. And it was like, I mean, it felt like two non-playoff teams that we were forced to watch playing each other in the playoffs. Yeah. I don't know how that ended up being the worst matchup, but it was a four or five. And it felt like they were the two worst teams. Well, because they didn't have Luca and they didn't have Durant. Right. I mean, it was, it was pretty rough to watch. And so, and again, another team that can expose you like Oklahoma City and, and you know that like you have no chance unless your turnovers are low. That's your only chance against Oklahoma City is playing with low turnovers. And they're going to go out with a backcourt of Marcus Smart and Luke Canard. Yeah. I mean, that's that that's a tough pill. It's sad. It's going to be really interesting to see who's at that game tomorrow because it's clearly going to be a sweep. It's a Monday night. It's not like OKC fans are taking it over. I think it's going to have, it's going to be definitely a weird energy game. Plus how's the Laker fans lost their celebrity row title? The Nicks fans are just murdering them. This is a route. I think Boston might have better celebrity fans than the Lakers at this point. I love what you're doing, but it's not comparable. I mean, this Nicks team has legit ambition to get to the Eastern Conference finals. It was always Eastern Conference finals or bust for the next Nicks team. That's what they did last season. The energy entering the season was high. The Lakers were always a work in progress. And, and you know Los Angeles as well as anybody now that you've been there for 25 years. It's a C to be seen kind of place. Do you want to be seen in a place where they're real fans to them? I got to as much as I can't stay in the Lakers. I got to give them. We're talking about the court sides. We're talking about the real fans. We're talking about the court sides. They never replaced the order of Jack. And I remember writing about this like 15 years ago. They'd never, Leo never really wanted it. Honestly. He kind of let down the fan base. Chalamet has embraced it. Chalamet at road games. He wants it. Chalamet at road games, Spike Lee and Chalamet at road games. That's a, that's a different level, right? Like we to travel to the game. I know it's close travel, but still to have your, to have your, you know, your celebrity fans in the opposing arena. That's something. Yeah. But then it guy in Los Angeles right now or, or Gal that you could put court side that would capture the moment and that would feel like, Oh, this, this is taking it up a notch. I mean, I think you have to go music. So it was like, I think that after grab, I think that after grab, Kendrick, ironically, the guy that handles his career, Anthony, huge Laker fan, obviously doesn't care about the Lakers. He won't put Kendrick at a game. Well, Anthony told me to, yeah, he actually told me to whip my dick out on his show today. Cause he knew how excited I was. No, but maybe you have to do more musicians and not do that, not do the actors as much. Well, they still got Flea, right? Yeah, that's the thing. They haven't replenished. It's like, it's like an aging contender that has replenished their thing. You know what I just thought of? Where's my man, Jimmy Goldstein? He's still, he's going all these games. I haven't seen, they don't put them on camera anymore. I don't know. There's, there's a, there's a story there. Oh, there is? Yeah. No, no. He used to, he used to be at, he used to show them at every game. It doesn't help what we're talking about. We want somebody that's 30 years old or, or, you know, under the age of 40. No, last topic before we go, Detroit Cleveland. I had Cleveland yesterday. I wagered on them. Um, and they barely pulled it out and they wouldn't have pulled it out of, if, uh, James Harden didn't turn back into James Harden for like three minutes. He sucked the whole game. And then for three minutes became James Harden again. Cleveland, I don't think has lost a home game, right? And the playoffs and, Wait, hold on. Time out. 20 seconds. Yeah. Would you have rather lost the bet and Harden missed all those shots? Or have, Oh, Cleveland. Yeah. Just for the Harden story now, I wanted to win the bet. You wanted to win the bet. Yeah. I needed one after I, and plus the nicks, the nicks have been profitable as well. House and I have been, we've been grabbing the nicks lately. Yeah. Well, you could have a minus 30. The nicks were minus like one and a half today. Like who thought Philly was winning today? I thought that was crazy. Crazy. But anyway, what do we think happens? What do we think happens in Cavs Pistons here? Do you believe, did the Cavs do anything to make you believe in them or no? No. I do not, I do not believe the Cavaliers are going to beat the Pistons. I just, I have Detroit in five. I think they win game four and game five. I do. It's a weird one because I don't feel like Cleveland's playing the right lineups. Now granted, I'm a guy on my couch in LA, you know, and I'm not, not spending every minute with the team, but like, unless Sam Merrill's hurt, I don't understand why they're not playing him more. I don't understand why they only play one big instead of two. I don't understand why they play Wade. When every time Wade's in, it feels like it's a disaster. I would have pulled Hardin. I know Hardin came through without the stretch. I wouldn't have played him in the last six minutes because he's such a defensive liability, but I don't know. It just seems like Atkinson's going to go down with the ship with the two bigs, Hardin, Mitchell and a shooter. And he's like, I guess this is winter loose. I don't know if I agree. I also think that, you know, I know JB Bicker staff from his time in Memphis. And I know he feels, he got, he feels like he got screwed there, like that he got blamed there. And he, and he coached Donovan Mitchell and he coached Evan Mobley and he coached Jared Allen and he coached James Hardin when he was in Houston. He knows all those guys. So if there's anybody that knows how to make those guys look like a semblance of them, you know, or a shell of themselves, it would be him, a guy that has really, he's been, he knows what, you know, the way to defend those guys. He watched it every night. He coached all of those guys. And so I am unsurprised that he's got a good game plan against those guys to make them super uncomfortable. Also, they just don't have, I don't think they have the requisite toughness. I just don't like they just, No, no, no, no, no, because he's an OG. Where's that Mobley at? Where's that Mobley at? Also like, what, they give up wide open threes at the worst possible time. So a team that's not even that good at shooting threes other than Robinson, Kate's the best guy in the series. Cleveland's going to be the most interesting off season team, I think. If they, if Verna's right and they lose the next two, did you say that or how states that? No, no, I think I agree with him. I agree with him. Yeah. So if that happens, I'm prepared for anything with Cleveland. And also like, you know, Mitchell at this point, there's a small piece missing with him in these playoff games that Brunson seems to have, which is ironic because Mitchell was the guy the next wanted all the time. And maybe this will be the Mitchell moment because this Detroit team is a bitch to play against, right? They have all of these dudes, they could throw at him and throw it hard in. And, but I don't know. It's, it's like, I keep waiting for his moment and maybe it's just going to be one of those careers where it never happens, you know, like I've had Or be on the next team. Or the next team, maybe it'll be a Memphis. So we all think, we all think this ends in five. Yes. I mean, I know I do. Yeah. All right. So that would be that's plus 240 on Fandle. Oh, okay. Yeah. If you're interested. Well, then they must be, then they're obviously the underdog tomorrow night. So that's a, I mean, because they're going to be favored in five. Well, no matter, no matter what happens to the underdog plus three and a half tomorrow. Yeah. No matter, no, let me have it. Yeah. No matter what happens tomorrow night, they're going to be favored in game five. All right. We're going to go because San Antonio, uh, Oklahoma up. Can't San Antonio, Minnesota is who do you guys think the group? Who do you, who would you take? I want to get you both on the record right now. I'll let you change in the next month and a half. But if you had the third pick and it was the bansta, I'll give you the bansta house, the bansta Peterson. And then the debate that I'm going to be having with everybody for the next six weeks is going to be Wilson or a boozer. Before you came on, I told Simmons and Tate that I think that, that Caleb is more of a Memphis kind of, of player, the dynamic, uh, ability, the, um, he could be a three or a four. I think he fits what I've come to understand is what your decision makers like. They like that flexibility. And if that kid can, can play defense the way that, um, Cedric Howard plays defense, that's pretty formidable. I know I heard you last week, Bill, you love Wilson. I do. There's no way you can watch these playoffs and not think, boy, he fits in these. Yeah. It's funny. Cause when the way the, the way that draft fell, Memphis got three and boozer just seemed like such a clear Memphis guy, just cause, you know, competitive. I liked how he handed himself even when they fell apart and that when his brother screwed up and see a game and he was just like, like he, he didn't, he was the only one that didn't seem rattled by it. But I think the Wilson upside is, I just can't believe the tape with him. I don't want to say. He really seems special, potentially. I do. I do think number one, they've been this front office loves analytics and they also, in this new era, I do think are going to try to, uh, atone for the mistakes made with Merant, right? They want to make it all about the team, not elevate a star above everybody else that then gets bigger than the operation and all. And I think that that led to a lot of the things that, that, that, that, that, that ended up, you know, the, the, the car went off the cliff. And Boozer is like, that he is as safe as safe come. There is 0% chance he's going to suck. There's a pretty good chance he's going to be awesome. And there's a 100% chance. Well, I don't want to say a hundred, but a 80% chance you never hear. I don't even know if he's on social media right now. He's not a plus character. Not, not, yeah, nothing controversial. Nothing. He's like, it's like the anti. It's like, in a romcom, he's like, they're heading toward the wedding in the, in the beginning of the romcom and he's like the perfect guy on paper. He's got everything. And yet that, yeah, Caleb Wilson's over there. It's like the bartender like, whoa, look at that guy. And all of a sudden we have a love triangle. Caleb Wilson, if you, there's YouTube clips of him, you just watch 10 minutes of him and you're like, is this guy Sean Camcross with the honest? I know. And he's so electric and I keep thinking of him and Caleb together. So you have that, but then you have Memphis, Gritt and Grind, analytics. This guy is just like a guaranteed, so it's a really tough one, but it might be Memphis's one chance to get like a super duper star. I don't think Caleb, I don't think Cam Booser is going to be a super duper star. I think he'll, I think he'll be a star and like a couple all NBA, second or third teams kind of guy, but Caleb Wilson could be like, I don't know what he's going to be house. I'm literally prepared for anything. I agree. The two, two good choices though, I don't think it's, if you threw him like him and Bozele, so to have some crazy ass dunks in Chicago, they would make the Bulls fun for the first time in forever. Well, Tate made the key point. Like Caleb is a chip on the shoulder guy. And if you, if he's fourth in a class of four, that's it. It's like, boom, going on there. The great thing is you can't lose. Like, and it's a position you needed. You traded Jaren Jackson, which I, as you know, I supported that trade. We argued about Jaren Jackson a million times. I was never a giant fan. I'm pretty sure you can replace his 5.7 rebounds a game. I don't know if you've figured out how to, how to put those together yet. One of the guys we argued about was Mowgli, by the way. It's true. Maybe everybody, maybe everybody was a loser. And the other thing is this, we also got lucky because Sacramento ain't up there and Brooklyn ain't up there. And those are Morant homes. Those are possible, right? That if you don't hit the lot, if you just craft on your fans again and you missed out and you're not going to get a new shiny toy to sell those sweets and season tickets, right? You got to- So you think Morant's gone, whatever happens. That's your take. And maybe you push Morant and 16 in and now you're moving up again. You know what I mean? I do think that, I do think that because it could have gone different if like Sacramento or Brooklyn ends up with DeBansta or like say they went one two in this or one three in this. Maybe it's a little different world, but I do think that those are possible landing spots when the trade stuff comes around just because they're going to need something to sell. And he is fun as hell. He is fun as long as he plays, he is fun. Brooklyn could be your outcome there. Last thing before we go. OKC right now is minus 170 to win the title on Fandall. San Antonio is plus 320. The Knicks are plus 750. What's your favorite bet out of those three, Bernal? So I think I would say just odds wise Knicks. Yeah, I think it's Knicks. I think I'd say- Yeah, I mean- Plus 750 is like good odds. Yeah, is Ode Ananobe going to be able to be 100% by the time we get to the NBA finals? And it almost feels like if he's not, then I don't like it. And honestly, like, look, Oklahoma City's obviously, that's last on that. How about this? What is Detroit plus a billion? 18 to 1. Oh, wow. I mean, again, Minnesota 150 to 1, although that game is starting right now. Yeah, I think that- Yeah, I think probably- Minnesota missed there. Game 3 was if they could have beaten San Antonio in game 3 with Wimby having a game like that, they just couldn't hit a shot. Oklahoma Daniels was like 5 for 22. Like, nothing was going in. Randall was bad. All right, Berna, we can listen to you on the mismatch. I'm excited to hear where you finally- So you've landed on Caleb. It's not- No, no, no, I'm not late. So you made us pick and then you didn't even do a lean. He needs some milk and he's got six weeks. If you put my head on a G&T today, I'd tell you they'd take boozer. But I want to watch this whole thing play out. I'm a lean toward Caleb Wilson. But by may prefer Wilson by the time it all comes around. Now, it didn't change by my- It's going to be a fun six weeks. And would you rather have House take the Bansa or would you rather have him move back a spot and flip picks with Utah and grab some stuff? Oh, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. Do not do this. No, you get AJ to Bansa. All right. The first time I heard about AJ, he was 13. And the guy called me and said, I just saw the next one. And I've had that. I'm telling you, that kid is- That people with the legend of Peterson, the legend of Peterson also is out there. No, I mean, you know that, Bruno. The Bansa is going to be a major, major star. You cannot pass on that, bro. The Bansa star in 22 games of Anthony Davis before he gets hurt. It's going to be amazing. No, he's on the trade block. You guys see that thing going around about how the way to get the number one pick is to trade for Anthony Davis? It's the last two. Three times. What was the third time? It was Dallas did it. Pelicans, right? Or no, no, no, no. Oh, but they traded him though. Wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait. Or they hadn't traded him yet. You do trade him. Yeah, you have to trade him. I think it's like it follows like the horror movie. All right. Thanks to Verna. Thanks to Joe House. Technical difficulties. We made it though. We made it work. Thanks to our guy, Tay Frazier. Thanks to Gajau and Eduardo as well. New rewatchables coming tomorrow. Tropic Thunder. Exciting stuff. Congrats to these two guys. The first, the third picks in the NBA lottery. And we'll see you next Sunday night on Netflix. Must be 21 plus in president select states for Kansas in affiliation with Kansas Star Casino or 18 plus in president DC, Kentucky or Wyoming. Game problem called 1800 Gamble or 1800 by reset. Call 888-797777 or visit ccpg.org slash chat in Connecticut or mdgamblinghelp.org in Maryland. Hope is here. Visit gamblinghelplinema.org or call 800-327-5050 for 247 Sport in Massachusetts or call 877-8 Hope NY or text Hope NY in New York for Louisiana. Call 877-770-7867.