Mentoring Young Chiropractors and Oral-Facial Pain with Chris Oswald DC - Chiro Hustle Podcast 745

you've made it to chiro hustle sit back and learn from the greatest influencers in the profession on the world's number one chiropractic podcast this episode is brought to you by peach state payments ethical processing more profit less stress chiro hd more than an ehr practice management simplified the chiro speaking company attract educate and convert chiro spring cloud-based user-friendly software with all the essential features chiropractors need. OmniWave, redefining comfort and acoustic wave technology. The Chiro Hustle Podcast is sponsored by ChiroHealth USA, ChiroScript AI, ChiroMoguls, Pure ChiroNotes, Five Star Forge, Tytronics, Sherman College of Chiropractic, Life Chiropractic College West, and IFCO. Let's hustle. Hey guys, welcome to episode 745 of the Cairo Hustle podcast. I'm your producer, Luke Millett. Here's your host, James Chester. So today we have the opportunity of interviewing Dr. Chris Oswald. If you want to hear our story about mentoring young docs and oral facial pain, stay tuned for the full episode. Welcome back. It's another episode of the Cairo Hustle podcast. Today I have uh, Dr. Chris Oswald on with me. I met this guy at Cairo Congress a few years ago, was fascinated with the work he was doing. And, uh, I've been trying ever since then almost two years to get him on the show. And, uh, we're going to talk a lot of stuff. Uh, the, the, the normal set of, uh, questions that we do over here at Cairo hustle, but we're also going to talk about mentoring young docs, uh, his brand muscle care. I'll put a link into the, uh, into the comments there, guys, if you guys wanted to jump on that. He's giving 20% off for all the listeners. I'll put that into the chat so you guys can see it. And then oral facial pain and what he's doing to help with that and bridging the gap between referrals from dentists to chiropractic. So lots of really cool topics we're going to be diving on today. But before we get into the show today with Dr. Chris, I just want to let you know our big why. Why do we do what we do? Well, first things first is freedom of speech. I know that Chris is Canadian and they have a little bit different standard up there, but we love what we do down here in America with our freedom of speech and medical freedom and family health freedom. They're not the same things, but if you need those things, reach out to a chiropractor in your neighborhood. I'm sure they'd be happy to take care of you and guide you with your medical decisions. And when it comes to the philosophy of our show. We do protect BJ Palmer sacred trust. Those were his last written words. And if you guys want to learn more about the profession and BJ Palmer, go to the show notes, click on the link and you'll find more about chiropractic than you did previously. I guarantee you. Philosophically speaking, also, I know you shouldn't have to say this, but they're removing this language from the schools and we have to be a little bit more clear on the direction of the profession, just let people know that we do support subluxation-based chiropractic. We do believe in innate intelligence and universal intelligence. We believe that when man or woman, the physical gets adjusted, it connects them to man or woman, the spiritual, which creates the educated intelligence. And I just front load this with philosophy and truth because sometimes people only listen to it for two minutes and then they bounce. So at least they got some truth on the profession of chiropractic. Dr. Chris, I just want to welcome you to 745th episode of ChiroHustle. 7.45. Congratulations, James. Well done. Thanks for letting me join you today. Yeah. I mean, there's nothing lost in God's economy. And the story of chiropractic is something I definitely believe more people need access to. And they need to hear it from people who have dedicated their life and their careers to it. And that's why we started ChiroHustle eight years ago and have just been banging the drum since then. So as you tell people your story, why you decided chiropractic was the right solution for you for a career, I'm going to find that link and post it in the comments so people can click on to get the 20% off of muscle care. Sure, James. Well, my story is not that difficult. I'm a second generation chiropractor. As you said earlier, I am Canadian. I was born in a small town called Stony Creek about an hour outside of Toronto, if you know where that is. And my dad was actually was smart enough to know that even though he was at CMCC in Canada, going to school and graduated in 57, he knew to drive down to Davenport, Iowa for teaching and training with BJ Palmer. So that still bestilled a great deal of that chiropractic spizz, you know, in my old man that I definitely picked up on when I was younger. I got my first adjustment when I was a day old. Allegedly, I was constipated. So that started the things moving in the right direction all around. And my dad turned out he was very politically minded. So he was president of the Canadian Chiro Association and then VP on CCE. So that's that accreditation group that makes sure that all the standards of education around the globe for chiropractic is at a certain level. So I respected that, but I realized that politics was not for me. I wanted to do my own thing. And like most sons and dads that do the same thing, they clash a little bit. So he stayed in Stoney Creek. I moved to Toronto and opened my own shop. And we have one of the largest multidisciplinary practices in the country with over 30 practitioners. And I'll tell you, I'm glad I did what I did. It certainly wasn't the easiest track. It's a lot of work. You know, that's for sure. It's a lot of work. But I'm glad that I took that front-facing approach to writing books, talking about chiropractic no matter wherever I went, being on TV multitude of times, just to try and get the public the right perception of what chiropractors do and why they do it. Yeah, I think it's absolutely fundamental to learn and to teach. And I think that learning from your father gave you some grit to say, I want to do it my way. But it's also cool that he passed the torch to you, that chiropractic was a good solution for you as a career. And then you were able to build the empire you did. Exactly. I'm grateful for that. And I was able to, you know, be an ongoing guest lecture at CMCC, but also at Northwestern Health Sciences University of Minnesota. And I love that facility as well. And then as you and I know, with muscle care and everything else that we've done, we've had a chance to visit so many other institutions and so much to do in so little time. Yeah, you've always been a guy that I've known has been driven to go hit the road and to hit the seminar circuit and to be a speaker and to help spread the message of chiropractic. Let's transition a little bit to the next generation, though. Like, I know there's a lot of kids out there that are like, I open up our show saying, hey, you might not be getting subluxation conversations in your curriculum. You might not be getting innate intelligence, universal intelligence. You might not even be getting the big idea. You might not even know what a green book looks like. You're right. You're right. And I kept my dad's green books. I still have them here with me, just so you know. I haven't forgotten that. But for the new docs, they are getting further and further away from a very simple concept. You just, you create the conditions in the human body where it can heal itself. That's what happens. Period. Full stop. Right. That's what we do. So adjusting specific spinal adjusting as BJ would say, you know, is what we do best. And I think for those young practitioners, they've got to get out there. They've got to go to other practitioners and they got to, and my, my magic is spend a half a, half a day with the chiropractor and half a day with the front staff. And you learn very quickly how you want to or what you want to integrate from those experiences into the practice that you want to run. You know, because it's certainly a successful practice needs a great doctor and a great front staff. So it sounds like what you're telling me is that chiropractic education comes from being in the field more than it does coming from being in the program. I think it's a tough one. And a lot of the schools, especially in Canada, they're pushing so, so hard on the science side. They are losing track of the philosophy and the hands-on side. So that's why I admire Palmer and Parker and National. The schools that get your hands on patients faster, longer, I still admire that tremendously. And I really wish that we wouldn't lose that at CMCC. I do know we have a new president, and she's doing a phenomenal job to bring that back. I do tell young people, look, there's no easy way to do this. And just because you get out of school and you get out of clinic where you have to, you know, you had to write out the notes about what you were doing and present it to a clinician, you really shouldn't stop doing that. You shouldn't cut corners. Okay. You should always go through that mental process so that you can keep fine tuning your skills, keep drawing those associations between someone who sits this way or did this or fell that way or has this issue, you know, and remembering these pathways helps you become that much more astute and quicker to the point and building trust faster with patients as you get going down the path. Avoid those fads too, big guy. You know, there's a lot of people out there trying to sell fast ways to get success. Doesn't work. You know, doesn't work. Yeah. You got to show up every day and do the work. You got to do the work. Yeah. Long days, hard, hard, hard work. Find some mentors, learn business principles, and don't forget to learn marketing. And I think that's a big takeaway for people too, is that's a big lift. When you get that dialed in, practice is more fun. Yes, exactly. And like you said, if you can communicate, so even like Toastmasters or any other group that helps you craft your speech, who you are, your elevator pitch, you know, as Apple would put, you know, would put it, you've got to have that down to a science, but you can't be salesy when you go out to a social event. You just got to be a nice human being. People want to go to nice human beings more than they want to go to people, push, push, push, sell, sell, sell, right? Yeah. And back to our, our, our earlier part of that conversation, as you said, that up at CMCC, it's unfortunate they've kind of gone more medical, but my, my, my, my position is what is chiropractic without the adjustment? What is chiropractic without the philosophy? It's just manual medicine. Exactly. And it's, you know, I, I will say to you that the university of Toronto medical professors teach at CMCC. So there's nothing wrong with higher level of academic education, but let's not forget what made us who we are. The ability to palpate, the ability to understand what our hands are saying, you know, connect that to what's going on with the person and help deliver that specific adjustment. That's what Ron Gittleman and, you know, Adrian Grice and Silmi or a lot of these guys were my mentors, you know, when I went through school, the specificity of the adjustments, everything. And if you can stretch the muscles with that at the same time, it's a bonus. And this is what people aren't getting these days because what does the world spend most of their time doing? They're looking down at their phone, right? Well, you're contracting the anterior neck, you're lengthening the posterior neck. Why are we adjusting from the posterior aspect of the neck? The anterior part is the compression. So if we open it up and lengthen and stretch the muscles and release the anterior aspect of the joint and the pillars, we're going to open that brachial plexus area and we're going to really facilitate a much better calming of those nerves into the chest, the arm, the hand, the head, you know, this sort of thing. We got to think it through. It's not robotic. It's not, I'm going to do a lateral brake adjustment here. You're going to adjust in whatever direction that joint is not working in. Get it? Yeah. I mean, I understand this profession and the techniques from going on 17 years of dedication to understanding the profession And you are right And a lot of times people just say hey it just pain But then you like hey it just structure And a lot of times people are like well it just the bone And then some people are like, it's just the nerve. And like you're saying, it's muscle too. Like when people start to understand that there's a construct of the body that is all one. And you have to determine the best way to adjust somebody for whole body care. And not just we got to move the bone or we got to like get the pressure off the nerve. We got to remove functionality. We got to remove we got to restore functionality. Absolutely. Absolutely. So it doesn't come back 10 minutes later. Right. And, you know, and you talk about what kind of cool things that we've seen along the way. There's Eiko Sato is a Japanese researcher that spent more time in visceral somatic reflexes than any other chiropractor. So they know that you can stimulate the gastrointestinal movement or peristalsis through lower back adjusting or stimulation. You know, how many times have I had people come back from Mexico with Montezuma's revenge and had horrible diarrhea? You know, and of course, if you assess their spine, you're going to probably find that there's tremendous subluxation or aggravation around that thoracic lumbar junction. And if you can adjust that, the number of people that say thank you so much the next day, it's settled. so quickly because we broke that irritability cycle, right? Why can't we do that? There's science. That's evidence. Well, it's cool that I have a Canadian guy with me today because you guys have a whole different scope of what you look for up there and the different fires you have to put out when it comes to practicing chiropractic, whether it be with x-rays or adjusting babies or adjusting kids or how many sets of x-rays you can take and all the things, all the regulations and all the tomfoolery when it comes to micromanaging professionals. We are lucky because we don't have to deal with insurance. People think that it's universal healthcare in Canada and everybody gets free everything. But years ago, they took away chiropractic coverage because it was so minute. They moved it to third-party payers. So people that come to us, they actually pay for the service and they submit their own bills to their own insurance companies. So we don't have to have one or two or three full-time people managing the insurance claim in hopes that maybe we get paid and that they don't take it away a year later. You know, we are fortunate. There's no money in healthy people. And it's just another example of how that plays out politically for the people too, is if there was a good thing to get people healthy, then insurance would cover this hand over fist and they pay full premiums and they would make this a guaranteed part of people's packages. But it's a different part of the scope of the way people become medicalized. Correct. You see that in the US a lot more, don't you? They try to keep the information that can empower human beings to get well, stay well and be well on their own. so that they can take control and sell meds down the road. Yeah, I feel that when I'm in the States. Yeah, I mean, it's just a different paradigm, but that's a big thing about this is the show's global and people get a chance to get your perspective as well as my perspective. And I think that that's also the mantelpiece of 745 episodes of this is I'm not just talking because I wanna like make connection points. I'm saying we need to speak the truth to people to where they can start to say, well, you know what? maybe that isn't the right path for us. Maybe we do need to investigate what matters to the real profession of chiropractic, not this new age, change it all from the top down style of chiropractic. Agree. Why can't it be both? I mean, having an old man who started practicing HIO and then did Gonstead and then met BJ. I mean, why can't you have somebody who's very strong belief system in the philosophy and the adjustment blended and joining with the science behind what we do. It just makes us that stronger, that much stronger. I'm not ever saying throw away the past. And this is the funny part. That's what got us here. And now all of a sudden, when you go to these, we went to 50 shows in the last year and a half. And when you're there, chiros aren't even chiros anymore. They're buying whatever gizmo they can put on somebody to make them more revenue stream. But they're running away from the hands-on physical nature of this business. And again, that's allowing everybody else to step on our toes and come into our turf. They used to complain and make fun of us, call us names, call us cult, unscientific, practicing without a license. But you know what? I mean, don't give up on what got us here, right? Stay fighting. Yeah, and just the fundamentals of anything matters. You know, you can automate baseball and put, you know, a pitch like a square around the pitching and say, this is a strike. This isn't a strike, but we still have umpires. I mean, things do advance, but you're still going to have balls and strikes if you have baseball. You know, you're not going to all of a sudden say, hey, we're not calling balls and strikes anymore. Like that's like saying we're not going to use philosophy anymore. It's like taking away from like the basic tenets of the game. and it's taken away from the basic tenets of the profession. So, you know, I think these are some of the things that we just have to bring back from bottom up and just keep the fire burning to where it's always smoldering. And there's always kids that are fired up about philosophy and knowing how to adjust and putting their hands on people and healing people. And that's the thing that a lot of times people just need to go back to the basics, know your philosophy, know where come from and know how to adjust. Exactly. And we've built such an armamentarium of evidence supporting chiropractic adjustments versus manipulation or placebo. Why run away? Stay the course. And giving simple advice, we don't have to have the ability to prescribe drugs to achieve benefit in mobility, pain reduction, inflammation reduction, injury prevention. We can simply use ergonomics, helping them function in their space. There's over 5,000 papers published that support that simple rationale. That was what old chiropractors would do, give them advice to help them get through their day-to-day, you know, the best way possible. What about stretching? Same thing, 4,600 to 5,200 papers on static stretching. That goes along with what we do, keep the muscles relaxed, ease the stress on the joints, less excitation of the nervous system. Why wouldn't we give people stretching, right? simple they're not separate they're all the same but people always want to own the method and they want to tell people what's best for them and how to do it and usually the people telling you how to do it are the ones that aren't practicing anymore so be careful who you get your advice from i would i would say that as well So when it comes to you and your career, what were your favorite? I mean, kid, the students listen to the show a lot. What are your favorite ways to stay connected to your local community? My dad always said and I always said that you've got to live where you practice. You've got to get out in that community. Just very simple concept. You've got a grocery shop. You've got to go to restaurants in your community, get to know the other stores, vendors, owners by name. If you support them, they'll support you. So simple concept. If you buy groceries at their small shop, you know, they're going to come and see when they're back is a problem. Right. That easy. As I said before, we developed a niche in oral facial pain because back in 2010, when my business associate, Dr. Sid Lister, came to me and said, Chris, I'm getting so many more referrals in TMD. we got to put some time and effort into this because nobody received more than about an hour, hour and a half of training, you know, in temporal mandibular issues. And it's way more complicated than that. We liken it to learning Mandarin. We took nine years, invested very heavily to create a process of diagnostic and treatment to get us to a place where we could treat people for six to nine weeks and get them 80% better. And that gave the dentists in our area confidence, but also gave our doctors confidence that they could go to those dentists, speak their language, because temporal mandibular is the fastest growing MSK problem in our society today. And one in three people that go to a dentist have problems here, not in their teeth or their gums. So that means one in three people are walking out the door dissatisfied if they don't have a connection or a collaboration with someone like a chiropractor who's got that ability to diagnose, speak to a dentist and treat manually both inside and out of the mouth. So we built this program called the oral facial pain training certification. So it's the OFPT.com and take a look at it because we got 800 dentists around our main clinic sending us 250 new patients a month, 250 new patients a month. So for me, that was unheard of. I say we do what we do and we set the stage, we set the bar very high. Okay. Very high. All right. Don't get your referrals from social media. Listen to podcasts, learn information, but go to the people that are reputable in your community and build strong relationships. And my last thing I'll say is that I had 184 doctors within two blocks of me in every direction. And in 1988, when I started practice, I went to every one of them and I had four of them that I clicked with out of 188. And guess what? They built my practice. 30,000 patients later, they built my practice. So again, the more no's you get, the more yes's you're going to get. You've made it to Cairo Hustle. Sit back and learn from the greatest influencers in the profession on the world's number one chiropractic podcast. This episode is brought to you by Peach State Payments, ethical processing, more profit, less stress. Chiro HD, more than an EHR, practice management simplified. The Chiro speaking company, attract, educate, and convert. Chiro Spring, cloud-based, user-friendly software with all the essential features chiropractors need. OmniWave, redefining comfort and acoustic wave technology. The Chiro Hustle Podcast is sponsored by ChiroHealth USA, ChiroScript AI, chiro moguls pure chiro notes five star forge titronics sherman college of chiropractic life chiropractic college west and ifco let's hustle yeah that's some really good takeaways there for for the listeners just because um you have to go and work you have to go and build your community You have to go out there and shake hands and show up. But by doing that, you create a beautiful career and you create a beautiful practice and you become the go to expert. And when people do come top of mind for their neighbor that has something going on, they're going to tell them about you. And that is that is the best way I've learned over time is build your local referrals. and get results. And what about treating everybody as if it was, you know, your last patient, you know, as you and I talked about earlier, if you knew that this was the last time I was going to see you, would you treat me differently? And the answer is, yeah, you've got to treat, you know, the older chiros used to call it present time consciousness. And they might only be in a room for five to 10 minutes with them, But that patient would feel like it was a half an hour because so much was said. Connections were made. Adjustments were given. And they felt so much better. And they trusted the process. So present time consciousness always. Never rush. Okay. That person is the only person that matters. And then when you're done, you move to the next one. Right Yeah I tell everybody you can give three things in your life your time your talent or your treasure And sometimes when you doing patient care you give your time and your talent And you've exchanged your treasure for the education in order to go and serve your community. So it's the triune, time, talent, and treasure. And if you get really good with your talent, you'll become world class. and the rest of the world will come knocking, beating your door down for what you do. And I think that that's really a big talking point for us today is, you know, you did come up with a muscle care brand to help people with their troubles. And talk to people about the evolution of that product and how it's helping people. Sure. Because, you know, whenever I do and build products, I think we've built 25 of them to date, it was always trying to figure out how do I help patients better? How do I help our practitioners and reputation brand of chiropractic? So most of the products that you see in chiropractors offices have very little evidence supporting that they actually work. They're just marketing driven. And that frustrated me to no end. So that's how we got into the ergonomic business, pillow design, our own foam designs, mattresses, chairs, et cetera. But when the economy tanked in 2008. I had always wanted to challenge the topical pain products that were out there. And the way we look at it, James, is that a cooling method, like a roll-on that's cold, was always argued that it was a distraction method, a sensorial. It would take your mind away from pain as if it would help your mind forget that pain. But it turns out that these products don't do that. It's like a two-year-old coming to you yelling and screaming. And if you ignore that two-year-old for 15 minutes, what happens? Meltdown city, baby. They melt down. Go big time. And that's what your pain nerves do. They start to fire louder and longer to get your brain's attention. So 2,000 topicals on the market were sensorial. Nobody was root cause subtopical. No one had created a bioinnovation of pushing in ingredients that would actually get to the root cause of the problem. What's the root cause? It's the spasticity in that muscle. It's breaking those actin and myosin cross bridges with a magnesium push with natural anti-inflammatories and doing this, letting the muscles come apart and fresh nutrient laden circulation, pushing the bad stuff out, breaking the chemicals of inflammation from triggering those pain nerves and stopping those chronic pain patterns from building. And this is really important for everybody because if you look at chronic pain in America today, what's it doing? It's actually doing this. It's escalating. It's going up. Here we are. We're supposed to be doing all this fantastic work. Why are we failing? Well, maybe we're giving something to our patients that actually isn't helping. Maybe it's loaded with parabens or dyes and coloring agents that are excitatory rather than depressive to the nervous system. Then we become just like a drug provider who's masking the problem, right? So we developed a bio-innovation, pushing in these ingredients, triple action, release the spasm, reduce inflammation, stop the pain. And that's how you get to the crux of the problem. That's what muscle care is. So we're distributed out of Meijer DC, and they've been wonderful for us. But as we said to you, if you're listening today, we've got a link that we'll provide to everybody to save them 20% off our website. Yeah. I mean, I just think that it's critical that people understand recovery. It is. And a lot of times, you know, it's, that's not chiropractic and it's not chiropractic, but it's something that can help somebody deal with the aches and pains of their daily life. And you know what they care about? They care about their aches and pains because they're theirs. They have them. So they're looking for solutions. And I tell people this all the time is if we don't tell them the truth about chiropractic and help them at the R methods, somebody else will sell them drugs or surgery without a doubt. They'll sell them that at the CVS. They'll sell them at the Walgreens. They'll sell them at Walmart. They'll sell them at the emergency room, the urgent cares. They'll sell that any way they can get that into their hands and purses and pockets. And we have to sell them chiropractic, but we also have to sell them products that align with chiropractic. And that's something that a lot of people need some insight on is that it's not one or the other. Like you're going to tell them don't buy this stuff. And they're going to go right to that store and buy the, the over the counter crap, the Bengay, the bio freeze or whatever it is. And they're going to go buy that. And it's full of all those parabens and all those synthetics and all the stuff that they make in a tub. Precisely. And you don't know what it is. So you might as well go with somebody that's been in the game for 36 years and loves his profession of chiropractic. Well, thanks, James. You know what? That was the funny thing, that a lot of people put these products in their practices and never read the ingredients, never look and see. Well, a paraben was just a preservative. They've been using it for 100 years because it's super cheap. But then they realized over the last 20 years, why did the European Union pull parabens from being in any products? Because they're light years ahead of us. They care about people. They don't want these things going into people because they absorb their bioaccumulative. They go into you and they don't leave. They're endocrine altering. Oh, that's great. Who doesn't love your hormone system going crazy? That's all the world needs. We've got enough, right? Let's stop the paraben. And then we now found out that it's carcinogenic. So all of these things, your nervous system, going back to the basic principles of chiropractic, is extremely sensitive. It does not like those products pushed into it, and it excites. And we know from the double-blind testing that we've had third-party published studies, we've used those products. And if they do pressure algometer testing in the same tissue 15 minutes later, those tissues are more pain sensitive. doing exactly what I said before. The nerves are firing louder and longer. The pain pathway is becoming more well-established. Those are the products that we've got to get out of the hands of doctors into things that actually work to change the end game. Yeah, I think there's a lot to it. And people just have to find good resources. That's the number one thing is I tell people all the time about chiropractic. Most of the time people don't go to chiropractic because they don't know where to go, who to trust. And it's quite similar for finding good products out there. And it sounds like you've worked really hard to get it to a place that is today. So big, big tip of the hat to you for doing the work. Like I was saying earlier, if you do the work, the right things happen. If you don't do the work, things don't happen. So doing the work is nine tenths of it. The profession. You've been at 36 years. you're going to be around for a long time. Yes, sir. Where's it going in the next 20 years? It's got to stay. It's got to go back to old principles and hands-on adjusting, combining adjusting philosophy and science and stay that course and publish, publish, publish so that the strength of what we do keeps outperforming all of the competitors because they're all doing it. They used to make fun of it. They used to make fun of our adjustments. Now they're all doing it. Now they're stealing it. You're stealing it. Just like they used to make fun of yoga or stretching, and now everybody's doing it, right? Stay the course. That's what I think we need to do. Get away from, we were always told that like massage therapy and chiropractic, the benefit is in our hands in what we can do. It's not in technology. It's not high tech. We got to stay away from the high tech because A, there's no data in it. It's just chasing another shiny penny, you know, and that's not going to get us where we want to be. It's not going to help people. And that's why I'm here. Stick to the fundamentals. Yes, sir. Freddie Schofield always tell me, first you crawl, then you walk, then you run. And I think that you can't go out of sequence. My mentor, Larry Goodman, always tell me if you go out of sequence with something, you have to go back and repeat the steps. so sequentially if we want chiropractic to become what it it is today and continue that uh that trajectory is we have to keep running and we have to not break sequence and we have to keep the truth alive and i think that that's one of the things that the people that make decisions for the world health um they're failing to realize that if chiropractic was first a lot of these other monkey sciences that are out there, they wouldn't need them. Well, let's say to your point, I mean, why would you go to an emergency ward or to your physician when you have a back problem that again, and get an MRI that's 2000 bucks, you know, and no care, right? Like it doesn't make any sense. You know, well here, maybe you could take an anti-inflammatory or an opioid, but it doesn't make sense. You know, go to someone where you can have a diagnosis and a treatment applied immediately. That's what chiros do. Yeah. And it's, it's, it's a profession, standalone profession. And, uh, and people have been trying to buy it and parcel it off and steal the messaging and steal the methods for far too long. And, uh, guess what? Chiropractic is still around is still very proud profession and they're still, uh, serving many, many people, globally. Mentors, you mentioned a couple of people earlier. I know your pops was a Cairo. Who have been some people that made a huge impact on you early on? You know, I remember in 1986, 7, I flew down to California to LACC and met Len Faye, who was developer of Motion Palpation Institute back then. He made an impression, the way he taught motion palpation. I really enjoyed that, you know, adding that to my armamentarium for sure. Sylmi Orr was a VP of research at CMCC, but also a leader and a VP, also a great chiropractor. Still a young guy, still just, you know, 69, 70, not far ahead of me, but made an impression along the way, speaking very calmly, very academically, but still understanding the fundamentals of chiropractic. Yeah. And that's the thing is chiropractors always tell from the stage, we stand on the shoulders of giants. Well, now you're the giant doctor, Chris. I'm ready. I'm ready. You know, I still have all the young doctors in their second, third, fourth year calling to talk about, you know, what do I recommend? And I just said the same thing to you that I said to them. Every time they call, I say the exact same thing. Get out there, meet people. Don't ever stop practicing and develop those hand skills and those communication skills, and you'll have a much easier time. Yeah, I think that that's a really good, some great knowledge for people that listen to the show. So get your pen and paper out, guys, and write some of these notes down because they're going to be valuable for you later. Oral facial pain. You were talking about getting referrals from dentists and practices is almost too busy. How did you do that? How did you bridge into oral facial pain and getting the dental referrals? As I said, looking for voids in the industry of musculoskeletal care, TMD was one of them. We invested a great deal of time and resources in learning. Dr. Sid was very, very instrumental in putting the time in to learn and research like no one has ever done before, in my opinion, and build protocol stretching exercises, treatment for TMD that actually works So that what we did We just built it We started doing it Dentists started to trust us They started to see results very quickly in their patients And that how they started to refer more and more So Dr Sid lectures many many places and hospitals and universities, many dental associations. But this is what we teach chiropractors because that void exists everywhere. And we can only take care of a small, you know, circumference, if you will, around our practice. So we've been training chiropractors in the U.S. and in Canada to do the same thing that we have, fill that void. If you have an interest in that, which is a lot less stressful on your body than full body adjusting, by all means, look up Temporal Mandibular Care, DOFT.com, because that will help you to attract new patients, build a subspecialty in oral facial pain, you know, and just do something different. Well, I just think that, you know, every chiropractor has their own art. And that's when I meet people in public and they're like, well, this chiropractor did it this way. This one did it that way. And I say, look, chiropractors go to college to become competent in their practice. And then they decide the type of art they're going to practice with. And that's their adjusting techniques. I was like, you should go and date a couple and, and go show up at their office and see what their practice is like and get the care and see if you like it. If you don't, I was like, there's plenty of other chiropractors that do things a little bit different. Maybe you have a better connection with them. And then I was like, when you find your person, stick with them. And now you're going to have more knowledge about the profession and you're going to have more experience at the profession. And then you're going to learn about how to have the conversation with other people about why it might be a good thing for them, too. So I was like, don't only think that every chiropractor does everything the same way. And people present different problems and people build different styles of practices. Some people are just sports. Some people are just pediatrics. Some people are just, you know, like I grew up in the chiropractic biophysics family. like you want to talk about research and dudes pumping out research papers deed Harrison and the boys over there at CBP non-for-profit those dudes are building empires of research so I think when people decide the type of philosophy that they're going to follow and the type of technique they're going to follow now we have to think about the third party the patient what happens when the patient finds us and they're like, well, I didn't like that style. Well, go find somebody else. And I tell people all the time, the best way to find a chiropractor, and this might be against other people's opinions, but I say, go find, go Google chiropractor in your town and find the ones with the most reviews and the most five stars, because those people understand that marketing dollars matter and public perception matters of their practice. And if they're paying for more traction on Google searching, then they're going to be somebody that's going to definitely take their practice very serious because they're putting money into their marketing. It's a good point. It's definitely the standard of today. All that I'd say is that we had the busiest practice in Canada. And up until a few years ago, we didn't use any marketing in any way, shape or form. It was strictly word of mouth. So it is it times have changed. And in order to be competitive in the world we live in. I think you're right. Look for people that have the reviews. Trust that first of all. And then I tell them every chiropractor, I say, start a podcast because what's going to happen when you do that, you get better SEO. When people search you as a practitioner, they're going to find you and be able to get a touch for you and see what your opinions on life are and whether they resonate with that or not. And it's a good way for people to educate the community and people to share stuff and people to have more resources of knowledge. So I think every chiropractor should go out there and start a podcast too. I agree. And we started one called The Health Pros. You can check it out on Apple or on any other platform, Spotify. But we are very sporadic. We are not as diligent as James is with respect to the regularity of his podcast. So we need to make that a priority and get back on track. Well, see, it's just a thing. It's a culmination of effort. And what gets scheduled gets done. And if we make anything a priority, we'll do it. So I think that that's the takeaways for people out there watching and listening is like, look, make the things a priority, learn your philosophy, learn your adjusting techniques, and get really firm with getting connected with your community. and the future's yours. Absolutely. Unbridled, unharnessed, just go run after it. 36 years in practice, Dr. Chris. Close us out with a miracle story. What's something you've seen over time that you'd like to share with our audience to give them some hope about chiropractic? Can I give you two? You can give me as many as you like. There's lots of fantastic things that have happened in the course of 36 now, going into 37 years, there was one patient that had seen literally 15 doctors. And the fact that they would say, you've got to go to see Oswald. He's going to fix your problem. You've got an MSK problem. You've got to go see Oswald. He had tried. He was a professor at the University of Toronto. He was about 40 years of age when I first met him. And they had given him multitudes of medications to try to break his pain cycle in his back and his hip. The first thing I asked him when he came in the door was I said, is this pain waking you up from your sleep? Because those are one of those red flag tests, because if you're lying still and your pain's waking you from your sleep, it's probably not a good thing. No one had asked him that. And he said, yeah, it is. It's crazy. I can't sleep. I said, look, have you had x-rays taken? He said, nobody's taking an x-ray. I said, okay, let's take an x-ray. X-rays looked okay. But I said, you know what? I really don't like the idea that something is waking from your sleep when you're not moving. So I sent him to my doctor because he'd exhausted every doctor connection he had. My doctor took him that afternoon and did a CT scan and they found a hole the size of a golf ball in his ilium. He had non-Hodgkin's lymphoma and they started treating him immediately and he still is a patient of our clinic after 30 years. So that was, you know, don't believe everything you hear just because someone says you're the best and you've got to go there and they, you can help them. You've got to do your own assessment. So always assess, first of all, your own way. Don't rush and don't trust anybody else. That's the method or moral to that story. And, and it's, it's great. I have myself here, Canadian talking about x-rays. So do your imaging. Don't guess with people's health. Don't fly blind. I'm with you a hundred percent. The other one was a 15 year old boy. His name was Connor. I'd known him because his mom was an Olympic sailor and I treated her and got her out of pain when she was 18 due to multiple disc herniations in her lower back and kept her sailing. But he came to see me when he was a young hockey player. And I knew exactly what his spine was. I knew how healthy it was. I got a call Sunday morning saying we had to take Connor to the sick children's hospital. He was cross-checked behind the net playing hockey, good old Canadian sport. And he was out, went back to the bench. the coach literally said sit here and rest for a minute asked him if he was okay he said okay get back on the ice he started skating the wrong direction to the play they knew something was wrong they took him to sick kids long and short all they did was a ct scan on the brain they didn't look at the neck at all the mom brought him to me the next day they had to carry him in he couldn't walk okay he'd been fine before he couldn't walk. I palpated his neck. C1 was significantly subluxed. Never been there before because I knew his neck like the back of my hand. Okay. I had another one of my associates and the mom carry him to the x-ray facility across the road because I wouldn't adjust them until I saw if his neck was safe to adjust after that type of insult. There was no evidence of fracture. they brought him back i looked at the x-rays i adjusted c1 it was probably the loudest adjustment i've ever heard in my life he sat up on the table his headache went down down down down down down down down down i had him stand up and he was able to walk out of the office massive story significant change from one upper cervical adjustment due to cervical whiplash from cross-checking hockey. The power that made the body heals the body. The body needs nothing extra in it. Simply needs no interference. When you clear the interference, the body self-heals and self-regulates. That's BJ Palmer right there, baby. I understand. I've seen it firsthand. And when you learn how to toggle that C1, it's a technique that is pretty old school. Most people are diversified these days. But if you can go in there and, like Gonstead would say, find it, fix it, and leave it alone, it's pretty incredible. I remember that from my dad. Fix it, leave it alone. Let your body heal itself. So those are just some of the stories. But we've seen that many, many times, especially on the cancer side, misdiagnosis on the medical side, unfortunately, you know, because they're just thinking the commonality is lower back mechanical pain. Yeah. Be one with the bone. Get it to move. You don't heal anybody, right? The body does what it's supposed to and it has no interference. um coming up on the edge of our show today is there anything i didn't ask you that you'd like to share with our audience today i don't think so i think that there's a desire in our profession to do the research especially in not only the art of the adjustment philosophy and the science supporting our care keep producing data look at the products you're putting in you're recommending do things smart you don't have to you know have this shiny penny or the shiny fishing lure that you follow, do the work, live in your community, be part of your community. And, uh, and I wish you success. And if I can help along the way, reach out. Let's plug them back into the product. Um, get muscle care.com. Um, go check it out. I put the, the, in the first comment on our, our interview today, go check it out, save 20%. Um, but if they're interested in the TMD or the, I call it TMJ for some reason. You call it TMD, but if they're interested in the TMD protocols that you teach, how do they plug into that? They can go to theofpt.com. The entire program and its outline is there. They can get in touch with us through that as well. So yeah, get your referrals beefed up, guys. Go talk some dentists, get certified in Dr. Chris's work, and let's create some miracles out there and save some more lives from drugs and surgery. Dr. Chris, it was great to have you. It's been a real pleasure to host you today. Thanks, James. Real pleasure to be here. I love what you're doing and keep the dream alive, please. Yeah. And I close out like I always do. I tell everybody, you guys are just one story away. Keep hustling. I'll see you guys on the next episode. Bye for now. Thank you. Thanks for listening to Cairo Hustle. Don't forget to subscribe and check back next week to continue hustling.