Even if you were to get a combined Paramount Warner Brothers discovery, you were talking about a business that can barely compete with the likes of Netflix, YouTube, Apple, Amazon, TikTok, Instagram, go down the list. Bonta is asking people to basically suspend their sort of rational understanding of what the market actually looks like and where competition is actually taking place. Welcome to the Powers That Be daily, Puck's podcast focused on the intersection of Wall Street, Washington, Silicon Valley, and Hollywood, and the players who run it all. I'm Peter Hamby. It's Thursday, July 16th. Today, I'm joined by Dylan Byers to break down the strengths and weaknesses of an antitrust lawsuit brought by Democratic Attorneys General in a bid to stop David Ellison and Paramount Skydance from taking over Warner Brothers Discovery. And speaking of Paramount, I also asked Dylan an important question. How is 60 Minutes going to make it to air in just two months for their new season, having lost over half of their on-air talent and a bunch of producers. We'll discuss all that and much more on today's episode of The Powers That Be. At Walmart, we're helping our associates build meaningful careers. One way we're doing that? investing $1 billion in training and education. Last year, more than 100,000 associates earned promotions. Combined with benefits like 401k matching and paid parental leave, we're proving that Walmart isn't just a place to work, it's a place to grow. Learn more at walmart.com slash grow at Walmart. Electricity powers nearly every moment, from the lights in homes to the hospitals, schools, and businesses communities depend on. And behind that power are America's electric companies, governed by clear standards, accountable to their communities, and committed to putting their customers first. Every day they work together to keep power reliable and as affordable as possible, meeting today's energy demands, strengthening the grid for the needs of tomorrow, and keeping safety top of mind through it all. Because electric companies provide more They connect communities, keep people safe and comfortable, and provide the foundation of daily life. That's why they keep showing up, day in and day out, to deliver the energy of every day. America's Electric Companies, powering the energy of every day. Sponsored by the Edison Electric Institute. Happy Thursday, everybody, and welcome to The Powers That Be. I'm joined today by my colleague Dylan Byers. We're going to talk about Paramount today from many angles. California Attorney General Rob Bonta this week, along with several other attorneys general from Democratic states, filed a lawsuit, an antitrust lawsuit, against the planned Paramount Skydance Warner Brothers Discovery merger. saying it will reduce competition and drive up prices for consumers. Dylan and I are going to talk about whether this lawsuit stands a chance. There's also a request for an injunction to at least pause the merger while the lawsuit proceeds. We're also going to dig in to some 60 minutes angles, some Barry Weiss angles. Of course, Dylan, I must thank you. This podcast recording was scheduled for like right in the final like 15 minutes of that England-Argentina game yesterday. Impeccable timing on your part. Thank you for moving it back a little bit, even though we had to see Argentina advance once again. I know you're devastated. I know you're devastated, Peter. It's just annoying. Anyway, Dylan, let's talk about this lawsuit. Now, Rob Bonta, a Democratic attorney general of California, was under pressure from various factions within his own party, rich liberal donors from Hollywood, trade unions, consumer rights advocates, and just Democrats generally who think that David Ellison is a rotten Republican who's going to do the bidding of Donald Trump. And so he really didn have a choice He came up with a lawsuit He citing the Clayton Act of 1914 which has been used as an antitrust enforcement tool tens of thousands of times since I believe it was used to stop the Office Depot Staples merger a few years ago Also Penguin Random House from merging This merger might look a little different You wrote in In The Room that this lawsuit probably doesn stand a chance of moving forward I sort of agree with that I think not on the merits actually It just that it hard to see the federal government eventually consenting to whatever outcome happens here, at least under the Trump administration. What's your take about why this happened and where it's going? Well, first of all, Peter, I love stories like this because when they fall into puck, there are a lot of bites of the apple from a lot of our colleagues. This is a story that crosses not just media and entertainment, of course, but also politics, legal, all manner of angles on this story. And a lot has been said over the course of the past 48 to 72 hours about the motivations here. You are right to note the political overtones. I've said it before, I will say it again. You have to imagine that if David Ellison was trying to get this deal done in a democratic administration, that we'd probably be seeing resistance from AGs on the other side of the aisle as opposed to Bonta. Look, here's what I think. Thank God we have a colleague like Eric Gardner here at Puck who can walk us through the legal nuances of this. But just very broadly speaking, this is a tough case. I am not saying that Bonta and the other AGs can't significantly delay the merger. I think that they can, particularly if they get a temporary restraining order, but you just look at the market definitions, the space in which they're trying to make their case, right? It's about theatrical distribution and tentpole films. It's about cable distribution, the cost of a cable subscription. Peter, you and I have been alive long enough to know that the nature of media has changed drastically in recent years, and that even if you were to get a combined Paramount Warner Brothers Discovery. Even then, you were talking about a business that can barely, barely compete with the likes of Netflix, YouTube, Apple, Amazon, TikTok, Instagram, go down the list. And so it just seems to me that Bonta is asking a lot. He's asking people to basically suspend their sort of rational understanding of what the market actually looks like and where competition is actually taking place. Now, I understand Eric has pointed it out too. There are ways in which you can make that argument. And certainly you look at the other side of the eye, like Paramount certainly seems to be girding for a long battle here, right? These threats to leave the state of California, like hiring like the best litigator in the business. They seem to understand that Bonta has positioned this for like more than just one news cycle, and that he wants to go the distance here. I don't know if it'll get all the way to the Supreme Court. I doubt it. But there's a long legal fight ahead. I still just think that by the time we get to the other end of it, David Ellison comes out with Paramount and Warner Brothers Discovery in one package. Yeah, look, Dylan, I mean, there are some real strengths to this case. The Clayton Act has been used thousands of times, tens of thousands of times since it was enacted for antitrust enforcement. I think in 2016, it was used to block the Office Depot Staples merger. That's what it was, among many, many other things. I mean, there's real, I think, antitrust concerns when it comes to consumer protection around the Paramount merger. But the other thing, like the other side of it is also true. Yes, like this is the Trump administration. Maybe the Supreme Court will eventually side with Donald Trump. But looking at the merits, and I think this is what you just said when you're writing about this lawsuit is that the marketplace isn't about movie theaters and cable ratings. You know, it's about AI. It's about streaming. It's about vertical video on these social media platforms. It's just about attention. And this is the argument that Paramount is going to make in pushing back against this lawsuit, that this is an antiquated view of antitrust in the case of media. And then one more note, too, is that courts generally, there's been some big counterexamples, but courts generally have been pretty permissive when it comes to big mergers. And I think that's an important point to make, too. Now, one thing that Rob Bonta didn't say in the lawsuit or in the first press conference he did underneath the Hollywood sign, he did say, but he didn't make a big deal about it, was the press. And obviously, the left is very concerned about Barry Weiss and David Ellison taking over CBS News and CNN. Bonta is not, Dylan, making that a big focal point of his lawsuit. Yeah, there is. I mean, look, there is some dissonance there, right? Because this is, as I mentioned, sort of a political case. A lot of the fears and anxieties that have surrounded this deal have related to the news division have related to the sort of you know like fears and anxieties about Ellison takeover of CBS and then CNN and Barry Weiss's role in that. It's a very hard case for Bonta to make. And I guess, again, just going back to where he's actually arguing with like theatrical distribution and cable subscriptions, you see that strategically that is the arena in which he believes he can fight, even if like the actual concerns that are driving this deal. Well, they do have something to do with Hollywood, obviously have a lot to do with politics. Not clear how you make a substantive legal case based off of those concerns, but those are the concerns underlying the deal. I just want to go back to the point you were bringing up before this, Peter, which is just, again, Bonta has a case, no doubt. I guess the broader point I make is that there's no world in which anyone would believe that theaters and cable are the future of how we consume media. And that is going to be a very formidable leg for David Ellison and Makan Delrahim and the others on his team to argue as this case proceeds. Dylan, thanks so much. We're going to take a quick break when we come back. Going to get some intel from you on 60 Minutes with the show debuting again in just two months. What's next? We'll talk about it after the break. You know, we talk a lot about finding a job, but what about building a career? Walmart is actually making that happen for their associates by investing over a billion dollars in training and education. And the proof is in the numbers. Last year, more than 100,000 associates earned promotions, adding great benefits like 401k matching and paid parental And it's clear, Walmart isn't just a place to work, it's a place to grow. Go see for yourself at walmart.com slash grow at Walmart. Electricity powers nearly every moment, from the lights in homes to the hospitals, schools, and businesses communities depend on. And behind that power are America's electric companies, governed by clear standards, accountable to their communities, and committed to putting their customers first. Every day, they work together to keep power reliable and as affordable as possible, meeting today's energy demands, strengthening the grid for the needs of tomorrow, and keeping safety top of mind through it all. Because electric companies provide more than just power, they connect communities, keep people safe and comfortable, and provide the foundation of daily life. That's why they keep showing up, day in and day out, to deliver the energy of every day. America's Electric Companies, powering the energy of every day. Sponsored by the Edison Electric Institute. Welcome back to the Powers That Be, everybody. I'm talking to Dylan Byers, host of The Grill Room, author of In The Room. Dylan, we were just chatting about Paramount and the lawsuit they're facing from all of these Democratic attorneys general. under the paramount umbrella is cbs of course and 60 minutes which has been the focal point of a lot of drama around news under david ellison and yes barry weiss now 60 minutes is coming back just two months they are by the way one of the best jobs in news people might not know this they get a summer vacation they're like teachers they get the summer off it's pretty sick that's one reason everyone wants to work there or has for many many years uh they're coming back they lost a majority of their correspondence they fired scott pelly others quit anderson cooper left obviously a lot of man power and brains has been sidelined or has walked out of the door at cbs are they going to be able to put together a show in two months because we know that 60 minutes likes to commit time and care and fact checking and all the editorial twists they do to make the show so wonderful are they going to have enough muscle to put this together when they come back in just a few months? Yes, they can and they will. And unfortunately for them, everyone is going to be watching and scrutinizing every move because miraculously, as you know, Peter, this show, which look, despite 9 million people watching it any given Sunday, was not necessarily like the chief preoccupation of the media industry. It has become that in light of all the tumult at CBS news dating back to the Sherry Redstone era. And so yes, like somehow all of the anxieties and fears of the media industry over the sort of like unraveling of America institutional gatekeepers has coalesced around 60 minutes and now Nick built in And so what I been told is that in a matter of days he is going to announce the correspondents who are going to replace, you know, the Scott Pelley, Sharon Alfonsi, Cecilia Vega, Anderson Cooper. And then he'll have about 60 days left until they actually have to put a show on the air. And I guess what interests me about this, Peter, is, look, on the one hand, whether 60 Minutes succeeds or fails means very little to David Ellison, who is currently trying, as we know, as we've discussed, trying to close this $111 billion merger. But it means a lot to Barry and to Nick. And there is so much scrutiny. And the scrutiny is not just because of what's already happened. It's because there is an entire coalition of people in exile, including Scott Pelley, including former executive producer Bill Owens, who may even write a book about this, who are sort of like keeping the focus on 60 Minutes and keeping the focus on what's happened at Paramount as what they see as evocative, a larger sort of destruction of the American media. And so we will be talking about 60 Minutes all fall long because of this. And it's going to be a real proving ground, I think, for Barry Weiss and for Nick Bilton, the new EP to see whether or not they have the editorial creativity and then to, as always, the managerial competency to see this show through, you know, without it becoming another story about mishaps and declining ratings. Well, that's what I want to ask you. Managerial competency. How what are you picking up on how built in? Obviously, he came in extremely cocky, wrote that letter called media reporters, basically saying you guys are antiquated, pissed a lot of people off. Yeah. That's why Pelley doesn't work at 60 Minutes anymore. He raised an objection from the staff to Nick Bilton's pretty obvious arrogance in that situation. But leadership saw differently and thought that Scott Pelley was out of line by being insubordinate and they fired him. Anyway, how is the team adjusting to Bilton, his leadership style, et cetera? Well, look, I mean, to Bilton's credit and, you know, contract renewals and incentive salary bumps can do a lot. Like he got the remaining correspondence to stay on. So he's got that going for him. There are people out there who want this job. I'm told that he interviewed nearly three dozen people for the job. They're probably going to be all of like two, three, four people who will actually get a correspondent gig. Of course, people want this job. What? This is this is a great job. You're right. As you mentioned, it's one of the best jobs in journalism. And I will be honest with you. I understand all of the frustrations that people feel. And certainly Nick came in hot and arrogant. And Barry did before him, too. It is one of the it blows my mind how many media leaders with little experience come in acting like they know best and know better and don't exercise the necessary humility to sort of make unforced errors go away. All of that said, there are ruptures and disruptions at any institution that feel existential in the moment and then sort of go away over time. And I imagine unless Nick like really screws the pooch, we're going to arrive at a situation where we just sort of understand his 60 minutes to be the sort of status quo 60 minutes. And there will be memories and there will be cries of anger from the Bill Owen Scott Pelley class. But at a certain time, that is just going to be the 60 minutes that we all know. And frankly, only so many people will care about it because at the end of the day, like nothing Nick does, nothing Barry does can change the course of the inexorable decline of television that you and I talk about so often. You know what? I was thinking back to that early Nick Bilton moment when he told the 60 Minutes team that you're not competing for attention with the other networks. You're competing with the tech platforms, etc., etc. Tell it to Rob Bonta. Exactly. That brings our conversation back to where it started. That's what the Paramount lawyers are going to say, that we're competing with YouTube. We don't care about cable. That's what they're going to say. So maybe they should talk to Nick Bilton. Dylan, thanks so much for joining me, buddy. Take it easy. Thanks so much for listening to The Powers That Be, the official podcast of Puck in partnership with Odyssey. I'm Peter Hamby, and I'd like to thank our show's executive producers, Puck co-founder John Kelly, executive editor Ben Landy, and director of editorial operations Gabi Grossman. On the Odyssey side, thanks to Bob Tabador and Chris Basil for their recording, editing, mixing, and mastering, and to executive producers Asha Saluja and Leah Reese Dennis.
