Tucker and Mike Cernovich on Nicolas Maduro’s Capture, Charlie Kirk’s Murder, and Battling Demons

Race the rudder, race the sails, race the sails! Captain and unidentified ship approaching, over! Roger that, wait, is that an enterprise sales solution? Meet sales professionals, not professional sailors, with LinkedIn ads. You can target the right people by industry job title and more. Start converting your V2B audience into high quality leads today. Spend 200 pounds on your first campaign and get a 200 pound credit for the next one. Go to LinkedIn.com slash lead to claim your offer. Terms and conditions apply. Thank you, Mike, for doing this. So what do you think of the apprehension of Nicholas Maduro? I'm dealing with a lot of, because I spent a lot of time online, but you don't. I think there's pros and cons to each other. For sure. And the pros that you're really plugged in, the con is that if you read the comments which I do, you really take a lashing every day. Because you can't buy a virtue of taking a position you just get lashed. So now, apparently, I'm a Neocon again. I'm a Neocon, which is bizarre because I was pro the raid on Maduro. And people say, well, therefore you're a Neocon in the end. Well, you're not a Neocon, which is, so that's why it's interesting that you're in favor of it. Of course, but if you're online, yeah, of course, but if you're online, you're whatever the most extreme. That's what they call you. And no, I'm not. I'm not. And I'm not an interventionist either, but there's a, I feel like we're always stuck between this false dialectic of you either do nothing or boots on the ground. We need full marine battalions to take the beach heads. Whereas I've always been approach, I've always been a fan of the Trump approach, which is used often. We have these guys do targeted strikes remind the world that the USA is still a world power, even though we might not feel that way. And exercise our might for a good purpose. So people say, well, this is a rock, rough, Afghanistan again. And I go, the people of Venezuela are not the people that are not the same people as Afghanistan. It's a different people. We've had special forces there for three, four decades. We've had business interests there for decades. The people of Venezuela voted out Maduro or tried to when they couldn't get rid of them. So we went in and we got rid of them. So obviously I opposed escalation and whatever, but the parade of wars, especially after salmene just hasn't happened yet. And that's because I've talked a lot of special operations guys during the Trump admin. And his, the way his approach differed and this was covered a little bit in the media, but not enough is under Obama, they just didn't let the deboys and them run missions. They everything had to get approval and work out the chain. And by the time it happened, they didn't have their targets. And the Trump approach was we have these people. They're trained. The level of the missions that they can accomplish, which we saw on video is unbelievable, right? He let some, he let some do the missions. They do the target strikes. I've, I've always been supportive of that. Yeah. I don't know if, I mean, I've got a double stack staccato nine in my bed. I draw, I've never used it. I don't feel the need to use it. But I mean, just because like, but no, I, well, I'll just tell you what I'm grateful for. And I'm grateful for the wisdom of not taking out the entire government, not because I support the government, but because, you know, we have clear models in Iraq and Libya and a lot of Syria. Like it can be very hard to put those things back together again. And the fact that they appear to be backing Delci Rodriguez, not because they love her, because they're in favor of stability over chaos and her brother. And they're kind of, you know, keeping the structure in place, but making sure it's pro-American, that seems like a much wiser approach. That makes me calm down a little bit, right? Yeah. The, the problem that everybody, the neoliberal and even some people on the right have is, they don't understand that you needed a strong man like Saddam Hussein to keep all these religious sex together. And it's obviously, it's obvious in hindsight, right? But at the time people either didn't know, and in my opinion, they didn't know. I think that's true. People were just generally clueless. Like, I remember I spent time with my wife and Vietnam and you'd roam around all over the place. And I remember we did the tours of the caves. And all I could think of was the tunnels, not even the tunnels yet, just the caves and the jungle. And all I could think of was, I can't even fit in through here. Not in the world where we do instead an 18 year old corn fed boys and black guys, the Vietnam jungles. Because if anybody had done any kind of advanced recon, you would just say our guys are too big for the territory. You would literally just go through. There's just a lot to be said for looking at the real estate. And you would walk through and forget the tunnel rats and all the other ways that they were buried in. You would just say, there's no way we can send our people out here. This is just a completely different area. And then Vietnam people have always tried to conquer them for thousands of years. And they actually take pride not being conquered. And the foreign policy leader, of course, just said, we're going to do Vietnam. And it was the same thing with Iraq and Libya. Oh, all people are the same. Everybody's the same. We'll just remove the Saddam Hussein and everything will be fine. Then of course you have a mess. But with Venezuela and Latin America, they're just pretty much like us. It's a little bit of different culture, but they've been influenced by the Europeans. They've been influenced by Catholic church. They're running a similar operating system. You can communicate to them in sort of like a shared language. So even though people have doctrinal debates and everybody wants debates religion and what's the truth to me is like the most boring thing in the world. If somebody's a Christian and I'm a Christian, you're going to maybe disagree about can you drink? Can you do this? What is this? You're still in the same language, right? You're still able to, you're still like close enough that you can bring people up. You can understand what someone's saying. And we didn't share a frame of metal east, which is a big problem. So in Venezuela, it's a different situation. And I also like that the air defense was completely disabled, even in the Iran, it's right that happened a few months ago. We disable the air system. We send a message. I think when you just send a message, I'm sounding like a neocon. That's why I hate that neocon, I hate that neocon's ruined it for all of us. I hate that neocon's ruined the discussion where you can't just talk about how it's good to have military might. It's good to remind the world that we exist and that we can do these things. We being the United States of America. It's good to remind people that we're still running the tables. But you talk like that and you sound again like you did that belong at the weekly standard or something. Well, I mean, you still have a chance to pivot against the neocons because the BB people, literally BB's office, is pushing for MCM, this Machado lady, the gay marriage lady, the Klaus Schwabackelite, who is supposed to be the Nobel Prize winner, actually, who's supposed to be the president and waiting. And Trump has said flat out no. She has no support when I'm doing that. But the neocons are pushing for her. They don't want the vice president to ascend to the presidency. So you can say that's crazy. Well, I knew when she won the Nobel Peace Prize, I actually posted, we're going to go into Venezuela. Yeah. You can just check the receipt. But now with her. Well, no, but the point is that's how the table gets set. You can all by now, by now you can tell the future if you just know that they always set the table a little bit beforehand. And the minute she won the Nobel Peace Prize and then praise Trump, oh no, thank you for this. But and then she's immediately kind of smoothing with Trump. Oh, yeah, we're going to the Venezuela. I don't need any inside. I don't need any, I don't need any top secret sources. That was all I needed to see. So whoever we send, I don't know, I just send Rubio. I'm just, I'm, I'm, where we went wrong. And I've had this conversation with everybody from line infantry guys to people who did the higher level stuff in Afghanistan. I said, we just didn't want to rule the country. We went in and we won all the military engagements. This is another thing to why I'm glad the Venezuela mission happened. I was so, I got so triggered, man, the way that even people politically line with us, we talk about the American fighting man. Oh, they, they can't win a war. They got beat by people who wear flip flops and say, no, they didn't. We took almost no casualties in Afghanistan. And I think the last year or there, I'm not even sure if there was a single casualty. It was an occupation that was lost. These are just completely different things. So I think it's good to just remind people, no, that was all black pilled humorism because of poor leadership by people like Millie and Biden and the Woke generals. And that we, we have a, it's unreal. We should take great pride in the people that we have in Delta and Seals and the special operations. Of course, but I mean, they're not making the policy decision. They're not, they're the instruments of other people's decisions. They are, but they, it's a two way street. These guys are not pot of plants. Of course not, but I'm merely saying you can't hold, you know, a man with a gun in his hand responsible for the decision to be there with a gun in his hand. Like he was told to do that by someone in DC. Yeah. Yeah. What, what, I don't know. I, I think that with, I think that to have retention at these higher level, these higher level units, I think it's the DC people. They obviously have an opinion, but I think, I think those guys get more of a vote than we might give them credit for. They obviously can't just say, well, I'm not going to go do this, but they, you know, they have a, these are strong, well, people like I've met enough of these guys. One, they're extremely impressive. It's just a different caliber of person. And it's very humbling because, because I would say, well, I couldn't do this, you know, maybe some aspect of what I could, but I couldn't, I, I don't have any delusions that I would have been a squadron commander in Delta Force, whatever, these are unbelievably impressive people. So they're, they're not just, you know, they're, you know, scrimbling down notes. So I sum up it, gives them instruction. Did you make a near resolution? Eating healthier perhaps? Of course you did. We all did. Well, snacks are the thing that is going to screw you up. But what if you could eat snacks and still be healthy? Well, with Vandy crisps, there is a way. Vandy crisps the easiest way to eat clean without feeling like you're on a diet. Only three simple ingredients. One, pesticide-free potatoes, two sea salt and three 100% grass-fed beef tallow. You can eat a ton and still feel light and interject, not sluggish. They're delicious. They are real food and they taste great and your resolution allows them. This is the part where we want to tell you our favorite flavor, but honestly, we can't choose. Okay, it's a tie between French onion and smokehouse barbecue. They're both amazing. And if you like Vandy crisps, you will love their sister company, Mosset chips. We've got a whole garage full of them. So if you're ready to give Vandy a try, go to vandy crisps.com slash Tucker. Use the code Tucker for 25% off your first order or you can click the link in the video description or you can scan the QR code and claim the offer. And if you don't feel like doing it online, you can go to your local Sprout supermarket across the country. Grab a bag before someone else. This episode is brought to you by Vanta. Security and compliance done wrong is a headache. Done right? You build trust and grow faster. That's Vanta. For startups, Vanta acts as your first security hire. Using AI to get you compliant fast. For enterprises, it's your AI powered hub for compliance, risk and automating workflows. Startups like Kerser to enterprises like Snowflake, top companies choose Vanta. Desecurety and compliance right. Get started today at Vanta.com. This episode is brought to you by Spraker, the platform responsible for a rapidly spreading condition known as podcast brain. Symptoms include buying microphones you don't need, explaining RSS feeds to confused relatives, and saying things like, sorry, I can't talk right now, I'm editing audio. If this sounds familiar, you're probably already a podcaster. The good news is Spraker makes the whole process simple. You record your show, upload it once, and Spraker distributes it everywhere people listen. Apple podcasts, Spotify, and about it doesn't apps your cousins swears are the next big thing. Even better, Spraker helps you monetize your show with ads, meaning your podcast might someday pay for, well, more microphones. Start your show today at Spraker.com. Spraker, because if you're going to talk to yourself for an hour, you might as well publish it. All of it does. So if the administration pulls this off and the country remains intact, and you know, you don't have various generals occupying oil fields and climbing them for their own, you don't have a civil war. You don't have a migrant crisis that, you know, Rex Columbia or Wines Up here. If Venezuelans in the United States were turned to Venezuela immediately, as I think they should be required to do, like immediately, Venezuelan nationals, then, you know, that is amazing. That will be amazing. And I'm praying for that. Yeah, it's always good to, I mean, it's always good to look at what victory looks like. And do you think this is victory? No, it's good to think what victory would look like. Yes. This was, this was the first step. I think it was a good step. But victory looks like we install our person who is aligned, but you can't have a puppet because then every, is there remember with 2028, it's not guaranteed. So we have to think longer term too. And you want to get a person who's aligned and has their own point of view, but generally it's going to do the right thing. The people of Venezuela, they were eating, I mean, you're in Florida. You talk to anybody in Florida, they're thrilled that this happened that Maduro is out of power. A lot of these people, they had their farms taken, their land taken. So I don't care about that. Like you show up in our country, you adopt our concerns and importing your homelands, conflicts into my country and making those the basis of my foreign policy should, should be your citizenship immediately. Like what? I mean, I don't know. Like I'm not advocating for anything in Sweden or Great Britain. I mean, I don't mean like they were. They were all during, during World War I though, that's what we, with the anglos who found to the country. So I guess they were allowed to do it. But if you go back and read the debates around World War I, a lot of it was about, well, we should go back because that's the homeland. And people are naturally going to do that, which is why Jim, which is why I support immigration moratorium, everything. But you, I don't know. I guess I'm more of a pragmatist and idealist. We live in the world sort of as it is. And Florida used to be a swing state. It's deep red now. Venezuela's who come over our anti-communist. We need anti-communist. Miami anti-communist. I gave you an example. So if I, if you hold events, I mean, your way too famous at this point, God help you is, I mean that like sincerely, God help you. If you go to Miami and Antifa or somebody showed up, the Cubans would just say, what do you get out of here? Like we're going to, well, they did that during BLM. We're going to like beat your asses. Miami had no meaningful BLM riots. Tampa did. Why? Because Tampa is the only majority white city in Florida. That's why. It's us. It's us like pussy whites and doles from that and the Cubans and Venezuelans who come in and live under communism. So if I look at the whole picture, sometimes it's good to get a little injection of people who lived under that because they're going to, they're going to see it not as an abstract philosophical, genuinely debate about, oh, should we allow wealth confiscation and for your homelands to be destroyed? They see it as a fight for survival. So I get it. I just, to take the attention away from our country, which as far as I'm concerned is not thriving, doesn't seem to be from driving around. Or there's some problems that need to be addressed, big problems, imminent problems. And I don't know to spend all your time worrying about Cuba. Like I don't, I love the Cubans here. Love them. But how much money do you want to spend out of like your kids college fund on regime changing Cuba? I'm more of an imperialist, I guess, than you. Like were we living Rome? The empires do and empires do. Like I just look what happened to Roman London. Well, and I mean, Venice, the seat of every other empire. Rome, Rome lasted a long time. It did till the fall of Constantinople, which was, well, that now he's there in the Holy Roman Empire. Okay. You're, you're adding a few centuries on there. No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, I remember I was, because I was, I'm argumentative sometimes. I remember in my 20s I would always hear people say, oh, this is like the fall of the Roman Empire. I was like, I wonder what that means? This is all pre-internet too. So you couldn't just read, read Twitter all day and have people summarize it. And so I bought Gibbons that a client of fall of the Roman Empire. All three volumes. And the single most boring treatment ever written. And it's very well written though. And I just kept reading and reading and reading and reading and reading. And I think I got the abridged six volume, whatever. And I made it through three of six. And I go, there's a lot to roam. I don't know if we can just say there's a singular point where, oh, this is where it's just like the decline of fall. So I'm more, I'm more Bolshevik pilled on the time we're in like I think we're much more close to the time of Franco or the time of the Zaren Russia. And you know, like, Misery Grove, when he republished those books, I read all those. I did too. I had no real, like the wider, I remember actually it was funny when you said, uh, where's the white army? And then all these websites try to say he was not the army. I was like, you historical literate. It was the white army. It was the people fighting the white army. Yeah. No, no, but you realize how literate historically they thought that I meant like white pig like the David Peagormy or something. Yeah. No, I know. No, I know I remember. And I was like, while these people are just literate historic, literate and no, cause you send the monologue like, where's our white army? And immediately it was like Twitter was like lighting up Tucker Carlson. This is why I don't look at it. That's just speared. And, uh, no, but that's really how literate people are. And people who write for a living should know better, right? Yeah. Because I didn't know what the white army was until I was under lockdown on COVID. COVID in a way was the worst thing to happen to regime propaganda. Yes. Because everybody was locked in and we had all these smart people who were just like posting things. And you'd have these long threads and I go, I never general Franco. All I knew about general Franco was he's a fascist, right? General Franco was bad. Um, Republicans were good. And that was my understanding of it. Cortez was bad. The conquistadors were evil men. They were, they were great wicked people. Okay. That was, that's what I learned in school. I was like, revolution, I kind of had a sense that it happened and the communist one and it wasn't good, but I didn't realize the full evil, right? And then when COVID, you're like, wait a minute, people just post some books. I'm like, well, I guess I'll just keep reading, you know, also reading like three, four books a week, right? And you like, you realize, oh, no, we're not living under the fall of Rome. We're living into the time of the Spanish Civil War or the bullsh** revolution. That's what we're living under. And I agree with that. And it's a bad, it's spiritual war as both of those were the French Revolution, same revolutions, 1848, same. It's all the same. So we need, we need the Cubans and the Venezuelans and the people who, I agree, I just want to focus on the United States to keep it from becoming Bolshevik. Well, that's, yeah, but it's like pie together. So, so let me, okay, so it does since you read, Gibbon, um, and bless you for getting through that. It took me almost a year to read that whole thing because it's so tough, but, um, it's a different, it's a different writing style. It is a different writing style, but it's worth it. So, so when you read the older books, which is especially good as we get up there in the years, they're, they have, you know, because I write short, punchy, boom, boom, boom, but then I have to remind myself, you got to go back and read to where you read a full paragraph and you're like, wait a minute, I need to actually pay attention to what I'm reading. The, the floor is a little bit different and it's a much denser kind of writing. And a, and a book length idea can be fully formed. Right. Okay, but since you're interested in Rome, there was this pit, I mean, the pivot really was not the fall of Rome. That was the end and you're, you're giving Istanbul credit for being Rome. Uh, okay. But in the fifth century, Rome, the place was invaded by the German tribes and claps. So the big pivot though was the move from Republic to Empire. And it kind of feels like that's where we are. But we're afraid to be an empire. Right. But maybe what we saw two days ago is the beginning of a period where like, okay, we're an empire, we're embracing it. That, that was, that's, I mean, that's my hope is America, you know, American imperialism, because I believe we're a just the moral people. I believe we're a Christian people. I believe that the venous way, I believe in, like, I believe that the greatest spiritual battle is the, and I don't mean to sound like Utopian or something like a Bolshevik myself, because some of this, that's what I'm saying. So again, the left and the Neocons, like they took all this, they ruined everything because you end up sounding like a left-issued utopian or you sound like a Neocon when you say these things, but I just, I believe at my heart that America's the most righteous country that has ever lived, that the Western Europe, if it doesn't fall, needs, needs to remain upright, and that human suffering will be reduced by what was done in Venezuela. So I think that's one way that I look at foreign policy is, in the Middle East, we created human suffering on a scale that's catastrophic, and Vietnam, especially too, like that's one thing that always annoys me that I think the Cambodian genocide should be taught in our schools, because one, it was because of communism and Pol Pot, and two, it was our fault because we were using Cambodian airspace, and that's what led to Pol Pot's rise. So, popping up Prince C in the whole thing. No, it was, you're absolutely right. If we have a national guilt, we should actually have a national guilt over the Cambodian genocide, and we never rebuilt it, we just sort of left them to live in squalor. Well, you know who did fix it actually was Vietnam. Vietnam invaded in 1978. Yeah, yeah. We've got a new partner. It's a company called Cowboy Colostrum. It's a brand that is serious about actual health, and the product is designed to work with your body, not against your body. It is a pure and simple product, all natural. Unlike other brands, Cowboy Colostrum is never diluted. It always comes directly from American grass-fed chow, there's no filler, there's no junk, it's all good, it tastes good, believe it or not. So, before you reach for more pills for every problem that pills can't solve, we recommend you give this product Cowboy Colostrum a try. You've got everything your body needs to heal and thrive. It's like the original superfood loaded with nutrients, antibodies, proteins, help build a strong immune system, stronger hair, skin and nails. I threw my wig away and right back to my natural hair after using this product. You just take a scoop of it every morning in your beverage, coffee, or a smoothie, and you will feel the difference every time. For a limited time, people listen to our show, get 25% off the entire order. So, go to CowboyClosherm.com, use the code Tucker at checkout, 25% off when you use that code, Tucker at CowboyClosherm.com. Remember you mentioned, you heard it here first. So the new year is here, but that does not mean you've got to overhaul your whole life, despite claims of the contrary. You don't have to take drastic measures, make a few changes here and there, and you'll be a lot better off. And you can start with the snacks in your pantry. Now, products from standard American chip brands are, let's be honest, pretty repulsive. They're filled with chemicals that make you feel heavy and bloated. They don't even taste that good. They're not good for you. We recommend an upgrade with mosa chips. Mosa is the easiest way to eat clean without feeling like you're on a diet. The chips contain three ingredients. That's it. Organic corn, sea salt, 100% grass-fed beef towel, and that is it. No seed oils, no mistrichemicals, just food, actual food. And they're amazing, and you feel great after. You don't feel weighed down. We particularly enjoyed the co-banero flavor lately, but they're all great. You want to give them a try? Visit mosachips.com, M-A-S-A, chips.com slash Tucker. Use the code Tucker for 25% off your first order, or you can click the link link in the video description, or you can scan the QR code to claim this outstanding offer. And if you don't feel like ordering online, you can buy a nationwide at your local Sprout supermarket. Pick up a couple of bags before somebody else does. So most people don't wake up in the morning and decide to feel horrible, exhausted, foggy, disconnected from themselves. But it does happen, and it happens slowly. You're working hard, you're showing up, and your energy disappears by midday, your focus is dull, your weight won't move, a lot of people are told that's just getting old. That's what it is, but that's not actually true. For many men and women, these are not personal affairs. They are signals tied to your metabolism, your hormones, and nutrient in balances that go undetected for years. You don't even know, you're deficient. And that's why we're happy to partner with Joanne Blokes, a company that was built for people who were all done guessing and ready to figure out what exactly is going on. And that starts with comprehensive lab work and a one-on-one consultation with a licensed clinician. An actual human being explains what's happening inside you and builds a personalized plan, which includes hormone optimization, peptide therapy, targeted supplements. So don't settle, go to joanneblokes.com slash Tucker, use the code Tucker for 50% off your lab work and 20% off all supplements. That's joyendblokes.com slash Tucker, use the code Tucker, 50% off labs, 20% off supplements. Join Blokes. Get your edge back. But okay, Sue, I guess I haven't quite figured out what I think. I have a lot of thoughts. Obviously, I'm totally opposed to have been since a rock since 2003 to anything like this. On the other hand, I'm thinking to myself, maybe, well, maybe I'm not in charge of history. Okay, that's like one thing that. And maybe it's just time to accept the reality of it. So I would like to live in a small agrarian, Christian republic where everyone knows everyone else. Like that's kind of my idea of utopia. It's not anywhere near what we have. We live on a content size country with 350 million other people and we'll probably have 500 million by the time we're old. So and we run the at least half of the world. So maybe what we're seeing is people just embracing what was already true and not like fighting against, like I hate the idea of having an empire, but we do. Right. So maybe that is what's happening. I don't know. I'm trying to figure it out. Born in the world, right? That's the, you got an empire to roll with it, be an empire. Like you're born into a body, you're born into like a human body and these like weird things and you have to figure out how to balance being an animal in a spirit. And we didn't, we didn't choose it. We're born into America in a particular place in time. And here's the problems that we have. Here are the resources that we have. What can we do to reduce as much as possible human suffering and govern justly? As an empire and we had one. We, we, we, I mean, in a way, we don't have one. That's a problem. It's like the worst of all worlds where they invade the world and invite the world. I forget who coined that, but that's the favorite of Pepe canons for sure. Yeah. Might have been Steve Taylor or one of those guys, but we have the worst of it, which is, oh, we're going to go in and to show your countries. And then we're going to bring you back up here to do daycare. Well, for a frog. Exactly. Where, whereas the righteous thing to do, what have said, we're going to invade your countries, but we're actually going to share in your resources. And that was one of the real, I think, evils of removing Kadoffi was they had education. They, which again, it sounds very leftist, but a lot of this is just objectively true. And they had free oil, more or less, free petrol. And now they have, you know, open air slave markets. So we, we did the worst. We didn't build empires. We destroyed other people's places. And then rather than colonizing them, we brought everybody up here. And now we, we have 40 trillion in debt, scam after scam. We have, like it or not, we have blood fused being imported where like now you have to have an opinion about Somali land. My God, you know, in my life, as I get older, I'm trying to have fewer opinions. Right. And now I have to know the difference between Somalia and Somali land. And then you look at the Minnesota flag, which is obviously tied to Somalia. That, that again, is the worst of all worlds. So if we're going to, if we're going to do it, then we should, we should do it as an empire. So what does the future look like? What are the next three years look like? So you saw the president saying, you know, this worked. We're going to do it in a bunch of other countries. Well, the future generally versus empire building are two different things because I think the future where we're on a pathway with the transhumanism, the, there's a fork in the road about humanity and what, what, what, what it even means to be a human. So that is a whole other different discussion. But if you mean geopolitics, for example, I think that we're going to continue to see these kinds of targeted shrinks. Now the danger is that some aim is what to remove the leadership of the country and replace it with a pro-American. Yeah. Yeah, the put, you know, plop one guy out, put somebody else in. And if you do it in places like Latin America, I actually think you can do it. I mean, Trump's already talking about Colombia. The Mexican cartel, that's the, the strange thing about all this is that the, everybody says, well, why don't we do Mexico? And Mexico is a full Marcos state. They have controls, a border towns in the US. It's a completely, it's a control of Arizona, don't they? If you talk to the turning point guys, then they have some pretty strong opinions about Katie Hobbes and how she got in. So what would a war with a cartel? It's a different, it's a whole different, right Pandora's Box, you're opening there. But if you can remove Maduro, you can remove a few people. You're sending a message to people, which is, so here's where, here's why I disagree with the Neocon model. And I think there's like a right, a right wing worldview that's coherent. And it goes like this, the Neocon, according to the Neocon model, everyone is just a madman. They're just madmen everywhere. And Pakistan though, they hate us for no reason. They're just madmen and they're not rational actors. Putin's a madman, putler. That's the whole worldview of just the Neocons and the neoliberal establishment. Putin's a madman and they're like, well, I don't know. He's 70, I read a lot about Russian history with oligarchs that take over the country after Yeltsin left, you needed a strong man to come in. He brought the oligarchs to heal, the oligarchs were like looting the country. And you look at him and you're like, this is, you can call him evil. That's a moral question. But somebody being evil is different from whether somebody's a rational or an irrational actor. Putin is acting in a way that I, in my opinion, is quite predictable. And it was the most rational actor in the world. And yeah, of course. Then you look at the mullahs and you just say, they want to have their fiefdoms. They don't want high IQ people in Iran, even they're trying to get rid of as many high IQ people as they possibly can. This was funny. Actually, I was at a dinner. There's a Persian diaspora in Orange County and LA. And yeah, and you know, not just in Jewish and, you know, the secular and the Muslim. And I was talking to this. There's just like a good looking couple, very well educated smart. And I go, how did the, how did you guys get out of you? You know, it was a week, one of those things where I thought I knew something, but I was revealed my own ignorance. I said, how did you guys get out of Iran? He goes, oh, he goes, you get a, and people on Twitter called me a liar for this too, which is like someone doing. But he goes, no, no, you basically, they give you IQ tests. Even if you're a high IQ and you're too high IQ, they let you get educated and they want you out of the country because high IQ people have too much of a revolutionary risk. So that, that there shows you that, well, that's why we legalize marijuana. Right. Same idea. Right. So that, that's the, I see the mullahs under a different model than the Neocons do. And I view them as they want to have their little fiefdoms. Of course. They want to govern over the ashes. Yeah, obviously we don't want to have become a nuclear power or whatnot. But that doesn't mean you have to go away and go to war with them because, oh, no, any day now they might just do something like crazy, right? And I think that, I think that's like the right wing position is you see people, you, you remove the moralize, the moralize, which most people can't do. Most people, they want to say the mullahs are evil. Sure. Nobody hits the mullahs more than the Persian diaspora. And, of course, nobody hits them more. So that's a whole idea that they're like, it was like, sure, they're evil. But then the minute you talk about an evil person engaging in rational activity, then they're like, oh, while you support evil, you know, God, I've lived this. Oh my God. Right. Then you're dealing with someone who shouldn't be involved in the conversation because they're not capable of like thinking clearly. Here's my concern. I agree with, I think your analysis is absolutely right. I mean, talk to the Gulf states. You think they like the mullahs? Right. No, they despise them, but they don't want to see them regime change necessarily because what comes next? The only country that wants that is Israel and not even Israel. It's BB. It's specifically Netanyahu and some of his supporters want that. And they're putting enormous pressure on the administration to do it. And my biggest concern about what just happened in Venezuela is that will be seen as a template for Iran. Like, let's just take out, you know, the religious leadership of Iran or the political leadership or the military leadership. And like everything will go as well as it did in Venezuela. And you know, maybe that's true, but if it's not true, the stakes are high, no? Well, that's why people have to have a definition of what victory looks like because victory for the United States looks different than victory from other people. So this is where I think people, people like lose the plot a little bit. So it's in, it might be in the interest of some countries for there to be chaos because if there's chaos and those people, you can kind of go in, you don't have to worry about it. It's the interest of the United States for there not to be chaos. I think worse. Well, we say, we say, of course, but nobody says it, you know, I do constantly. Chaos is not in our interest. Yeah. So it's in our interest that if we do do regime change that we don't have, we don't have chaos. We do want to have a more leadership and moral clarity. And we do want to keep things on the right path. And then other people have different interests and it's this up to us to keep pushing for the orderly, the orderly governance of the world via American imperialism. Well, what's that long ago that many Americans thought they were inherently safe from the kinds of disasters you hear about all the time in third world countries, a total power loss, for example, people freezing to death in their own homes. That could never happen here. Obviously it's America. People are recalculating. One forks link as they have no choice. The last few years have taught us that. Or would the power grid in Texas fail to the dead of winter? Yeah, it happened and it could happen again. So the government is not actually as reliable as you hope they would be and the truth is the future is unforeseeable and things do seem to be getting a little squirrely. So if the grid does go down, you need power you can trust. Last country supplies newest product is designed for exactly that. The grid doctor is a 3,300 watt battery backup system that will power full size appliances, medical devices and tools with clean, reliable power. It's even EMP protected. That means it's shielded from lightning, solar flares or an actual electromagnetic pulse event. There's no gasoline, no noise, no emissions. You just plug it in, charge it from the wall from your vehicle or from the included 200 watt solar panel and keep going day after day, taking care of yourself and the people you love is solely up to you. And the amazing thing is with these new batteries, we use one at home, by the way, is there super easy to use? There's no inverter you need to figure out on the front of it or anything like that. There's like three buttons. It's very easy and totally reliable. Highly recommended we literally use one, as I said. Visit lastcountrysupply.com to shop the grid doctor for power you can trust this winter. Next countrysupply.com. But undergirding all of that is the belief that the point of the US government is to serve the interests of American citizens, correct? Well, of course. Well, not of course, because I mean, the foreign policy leadership that I've grown up with and that I know personally, that's not even on the top five. Well, these are people that they want to play toy soldiers. That's a whole, that's the neoliberal order, the neo-conservative order. I think we focus too much on neo-conservative neoliberals who have probably done as much or more. If you look at the Biden foreign policy, poking Russia and moving NATO, that was all neoliberalism. They're just too rich, I guess, and bored and want to play checkers and chess with other people's lives. The Trump view is that we're starting from the American position. As prices are down, oil from Venezuela, we need it. We have a deficit that we're never going to pay back. If you take a step back and you just embrace it all, so people always ask me how I feel and I go, well, I go from optimism to despair and a split second. Because if you look at the national debt, we're not going to pay that. There's no way to pay it back. It's impossible. There's no way to pay it back. What happens to be hyperinflate our currency, do we fall for our debt? Trump is going to try a resource extraction. We get Venezuela oil, we drive down costs here, we get cheap energy here, apparently AI lead to maybe some kind of deflation who knows. People have their own opinions on that. That's still being hotly contested. In that way, imperialism can be a win-win because if Venezuela's can be better off, we extract our share of it. Maybe that's utopian and maybe that's pie in the sky. What's the other answer? The other answer is more, the other answer is like, dude, Charlie Kirk was assassinated. Some guys just at JD Vance's house in Columbia, Cincinnati, banging on the window, maybe shooting at it, all the details aren't there. The alternative is like a Bolshevik revolution. The alternative is an arco-terney, which is what we already have under a Democrat rule. That's really bad. The alternatives, if we don't fix it, you're going to have more class resentment. We do have a neo-Bolshevik movement in the United States on a bash marks this. When the Maduro thing happened, it was interesting. You saw the Brandon Johnson, Chicago's mayor, Mayor Karen Bass, who was in Africa while the policy is burning. She was taking some kind of vacation. Man, dummy, and they're all sort of with Maduro. You have this global Marxist movement, which is the red green alliance, which gets tossed around. Some of the stuff these guys say in the think tanks, if you read into it enough, I think a lot of that really is accurate. You have this red green alliance of third rule thinking with neo-Bolshevism or Marxism, however people want to characterize it. They do not have a good plan for the US. They want to loot it. They want to destroy it. They have a deep hatred for whatever reason of white people, white people of European descent are just absolutely hated by all of these forces. Not just by them, but the Neocons. They don't hate Europeans too for some reason. I'm not exactly sure why, but Christians, I feel like kind of everyone. That is my frustration with all this talk of anti-Semitism, which I oppose. It's a speech saying why I oppose it. On Christian grounds, I am sincerely opposed to anti-Semitism and racism and hating anybody on the basis of his blood. I'm just opposed to it against my religion. But the main form of institutionalized hate is not anti-Semitism. Anti-white hate in the United States. Why does nobody say that? I remember with police and fire hiring, that was in the 80s, where if you're a white male, Adam Crowell had talked about that before, but he tried to be a firefighter. Of course, they just said, well, you're a white man. Well, a JP Morgan same thing. Every part of American society. So yeah, the white man has been the white man. That's a funny way of putting it. White men have been hated for decades and then they've been the world's punching bag. Until of course, you need a Delta Force mission. They post a picture and it's all jacked white guys with a few Latinos and... Always has. With tattoos and you think, well, the whole generation was hallowed out. And you just do not see. And for me, that's a Letmist House for 2028. Is anyone who runs for president but won't specifically condemn anti-white hate by name is not even in the... Well, JD Vance just did that. Not even in the... You're not even in the mix because if you... Could you see Ron DeSantis saying calling out anti-white hate by name? DeSantis is an interesting... I think he would have three or four years ago. Yes, I totally agree. His evolution... His evolution has been... He lost... He lost... He needs to listen to people like Kristina Pusha more. The problem I notice a lot of people... It sucked into donor world. They get in the West Palm Beach. They get around the Richies and... I've seen that happen to a lot of people as you just... You cannot spin whether it's the tech guys or the finance guys, the West Palm Beach people, Silicon Valley people. I've spent too much time around the Richies man. They're... Totally agree. They're not living in reality. They have all these weird pet projects that don't have any kind of connection to downstream reality. They're glib and out of touch and they're going to steer you aside. You have to just stay with the people, man. You got to stay with the people. Ken Griffen is not a reliable bell-weather of American public opinion. He bought this, I think, Transaurus Rex fossil or something for $75 million. People who are like, I have so much money that I just want a dinosaur fossil or dinosaur skeleton in my atrium might not be the people you want to take political advice from. No, probably the last people. Do you think... Distances, obviously, going to run in the primary, you think? Sanctus, Cruz. It's going to be an open field because they're always this because that's how they get media time and sell books and everything. But the... What do you think it'll look like? The table? The table. Well, one is... Depends if we get... Depends what happens in midterms and how many impeachment strums get hit with if they can't keep the midterms, although Elon's back in the game, so maybe maybe Republicans keep the midterms. But... I think... With Elon, you can. With Elon's money, you can. And it's just... That's the sad thing to say, but that's just... Again, that's maybe like... That's where it goes back to like, I'm a pragmatist, not an idealist. Yeah. Get money out of politics. Okay, well, that's nice. No, we need to get... We need to basically... It's funny because all my friends are pro-Israel basically. And my advice to them has been like a singular. One, you need guys. You need to just calm down because the anti-Semons are so moronic right now, they just let them talk because everything they say is off-putting to anyone with a high IQ. But if you come with ranker, then that's just your... Your money in the field. And I go to us, just... Be like Stephen Miller. Stephen Miller likes Israel a lot, wants Israel the prosper and everything. But when people think of Stephen Miller, all they think about is this guy's amazing. You know, like, Stephen Miller wakes up trying to do things for America. And then if you do that, we don't really care what Israel does, or at least I don't. Most of us wouldn't or if there would be certainly less rank or around it. And if they would just fund things, then everybody would be better off. So Elon, he just writes huge checks. And if that side wrote bigger checks for Republicans to just be Republicans, that's what... That's up in time. It's like a look. You're going to get 80, 90% of what you want. If you just keep Republicans in the house, you're going to get that. The alternative for you guys is AOC and Mondami and all these other people versus people like me who are just realistic and pragmatic about it. And people like JD who's the same thing, you just see as a pragmatist. You got to accept that... You just got to accept that not everybody is going to be an ideologue about it, but you can still one without people being ideologues. You can win, which is good old, good old fashion alliances, where you help out, you pitch in, where you don't see the Trump coalition is so broken, so fractured. Because I do think the Neocons are intentionally breaking it because they want to keep JD from becoming... I don't think it's working though. I mean, I'm old. I don't think it's working. I'm old head from 2015. This is all a repeat of 2015. It's a repeat of the DeSantis when he ran in the primary. Same talking points. The same people playing the same kind of games. So I just see it as this is the third season of 2015, 2022, 2023, and now it's back again. So I don't see it. And the way the politics lines up on this stuff, especially in like 2028, is you've got to look at it as... It's just not... There's the problem, you know, I always want to be careful what I say is that not because I'm afraid I'm in canceled, because I've been through the ringer a thousand times. But the people who really see Israel as a key issue just need to understand that, hey man, you're going to get like most of what you want. But if you take it so that we can't win in 2028 with the Republican because you create so much arachimony and division and suppress the vote, then you're going to get a bad Democrat. You're going to get a bad Democrat. And you're going to get maybe a bad Democrat Congress. So people need to not behave in this kind of way. That's because it's not helpful. I just think of things like politics. I'm being helpful to the country and I'm being helpful for 2026 and 2028. And I think that's how everybody needs to view the map. Like are you being helpful? Are you going to get what you want if you continue to behave this way? You don't need to be an economist to see what's happening. The dollar is in trouble. It's getting weaker. It's sad, but we're not in charge of it. So we have to respond appropriately in ways to protect our families. When paper money dies, it's going to be replaced by programmable digital currency or gold. Gold survives. The same Americans who think they're protecting themselves with gold are the ones getting ripped off by big gold dealers. After we left corporate media, we got offered tens of millions of dollars to promote gold companies. I think it's the money to spend that much on marketing because they're scamming their customers. We didn't want anything to do with them. So we saw it on an honest broker and together we formed a precious metals company that you can actually trust. It's called battalion metals. At battalionmetals.com, we publish actual spot prices. We're totally transparent about the vague what we take and we treat everyone with honesty. So if you've been watching what's happening, you know it's not just about money. It's about sovereignty and holding something that endures and cannot be manipulated or taken from you. So if you've been waiting for the right time to act, this is it. Visit battalionmetals.com. Well, it depends what you want. So if you run around calling people Nazis, the chance that you're going to convince them to become Nazis is pretty high. I mean, that's just very obvious if you're doing that. And so maybe they want more Nazis. There's a segment of people, but it's not smaller. That's the loud segment. Well, if you want, if you want to, if the incentive structure is different. So if you're in media and you want to maximize a certain kind of sales funnel where they get as many people as they can, as many eyes on them that they want to be acrimonious and they want to throw bombs because that's the business, right? But if you're more political, you want to think about, like, how is this going to help us achieve an agenda, right? How is this going to help the country? How is this going to help them get what they want? That's what I'm trying to see. I'm just trying to, we have this alliance at one in 2024. The popular vote, which I knew Trump was going to win, we have mutual friend actually. I'll tell you when we stop him, we stop filming, but he was so blackpilled about the election. Right. And I said, no, he's going to win. We'll know that night. He's going to, Trump's going to win. We're going to know that night. It goes crazy. I go, I promise you, promise you. And election night has like, well, who the whole thing, buddy? The only thing I didn't see is I didn't think we were going to win the, we, you know, I didn't think Trump was going to win the popular vote. We have this alliance. We have, Maha, you have the OG, like, Maga people, the wild energy, they brought in, there was always this boisterous male energy, but then they brought a bunch more of that in. Then you had the post October, I don't think Trump wins if October 7th doesn't happen to be honest. And I said this at the time, because when October 7th happened, they realized, oh, this is what the left really is, right? And I do think a lot of them weren't, a lot of the pros, really people were not paying attention to what the left kind of had become. And because I remember I would talk about the red real alliance and people's eyes with sort of like clays over like, that's, you know, that's un-stupid. And so you have, they have the post-07 people, you have the, they don't want their kids trained, you have Maha, you have the nationalists, you have the populists, you get the tech guys, you get the wealth tax guys. It's a coalition in everybody. The rappers, the Selvadorans. The other rappers, you have the, the Venezuelan, the Cubans, and it's a political coalition that has to be kept together. And I think every coalition partner needs to look out for others and some coalition partners can push for themselves more and lose side of things. So my opinion, you know, foreign policy and everything else has gotten too much attention. Maha hasn't gotten enough attention. RFK Junior has already done what he has. The domestic issues, there's only so much Trump can do because judges are blocking him. But that, that's another concern of mine is that domestic issues are getting blocked. And then that's going to create fractures in the coalition. But I do think the, can I ask though, if you, I'm, the reason I have such like a, tap it not interesting response to what happened two days ago is because I think it's like a pivot point in history and I don't fully understand what it means. So I don't want to get over my skis until I have a better sense of what I think it means. But it is a totally new way of conducting diplomacy slash foreign policy slash military action. Like this is a new thing because Trump didn't dress it up with a lot of lying about democracy or human rights. He's like, no, we want the oil and like this guy's bad. I'm taking him out and we're going to run it. Or no one alive has seen anything like that before in the United States. So you wonder, and that's why I'm saying I think we're for good or bad, fully in the empire stage of civilizational development. The Republic stage is over. No one cares about Congress. So just like, don't we care about the Roman Senate? I wonder like how long until that same governing style applies to domestic policy where we lived it. We lived it. Man. Were you right? You flushed that out. Like people forget we lived in it. Like people like me lived in it with Ricky Vaughan was a I remember when Douglas Mackey was arrest. What a good man. Rated in Florida, chased down with guns. I felt all these court cases of the blacks for Trump guy was chased down by unidentified FBI agents. They just started chasing down with a gun because they obviously wanted to initiate a shootout and gaslight him into a shootout. Thousands plus J sixers people who committed at most, Mr. Mead or trespass around up, we lived under an arco tyranny. Lake and Riley's murdered. We have murders happening. LA is again an arco tear for those who don't know because you don't live on Twitter. Thank God. God bless you is. You know, I think I forget who coined the phrase the name escapes, but you would know. And the idea is that if you're a law buying citizen, you live under a state of tyranny where you're going to need a J walking. That's right. But they're going to be homeless and can't meant right next to the don't walk sign, but sure the one who's going to get the ticket while in campments there. And that's that's what we we lived under an imperial dictatorship where everybody was just like, oh, yeah, like when like have you talked to you? Have you had like your talk to the kid, yet? Everybody Charlie, Pesobic, everybody had that conversation with the kids, which is like, hey, just so you know, like daddy might be taken away for a couple of years and he's going to go away. And if anybody like shows up, don't do anything, you know, because they might try to shoot you. They might want to put a flashbang grenade in the house. They might want to kill your kids in front of you. When they raided Michael Cohen's house, even though, you know, Cohen ended up turning up what they did to him was was just disgraceful. They were going through his daughter's iPads in front of him. This is wicked, stossy stuff. It didn't just didn't get really any media coverage because I didn't even know they did that. No, no. And I think Cohen sort of sort of broke him. They just took all the iPads out of the little kids room and they're just like taught and they threatened to send Don, Jeannie, to prison for the rest of his life for he didn't do anything. Johnny Eastman, a respected member of the bar, a constitutional law professor, disbar in California, Jeffrey Clark, great career in law, big law, Kirkland and Ellis. They're trying to take his law license in DC. One thing after another and it got almost no coverage, no attention because the media would cover it down, play it or they would they would lie about it. And that was that was like the world. Do like I've had the conversation with my kids. They're too young to understand. And like I remember like because I don't have any money like I have no money and people like, well, you know, won't you have any money is like my family has all my money because I know that I could just be stripped of everything any day. Even you know, even now that if you're a target of regime, you could just like wake up and you're like, okay, well, I guess I'm fucked. And but on the other hand, you just like my God, how have I been boiled in the pot for this long that I've just accepted that is the norm. And I think that's something that is a problem with all of us is where it just we just took it for like, oh, Charlie Kirk, I remember Charlie Kirk at shot. I remember, Pissobit calls. He's like, dude, they killed Charlie. Everybody thought they would just kill somebody else first, but everybody knew they were going to kill somebody. Everybody knew it. This is how we live our life. Like I live my life knowing I could be killed any day. Yeah. I live my life under Biden knowing, well, you know, I could any day anything, something can happen. I know every day that I wake up just to a shit show of false. It doesn't, it just doesn't matter. That's the way that you live. And as like fucked up as it is and the reason our people, I think don't talk about it is you just, you have a certain ability, a stiff upper lip. You don't want to, you don't want to sound like a victim, but that's exactly right. That's not, it's not like, nor it's like, it's a weird, it's like enraging in a way. Like no, this is not how it's supposed to be in America where you know that any given day, like you, you might be taken away from your children because of politics and because of how rotten and corrupt everything is. I couldn't agree more. Obviously I live a life exactly like the one you described. On the other hand, I think it's essential to cling to your nobility and refuse to become a victim and refuse to act like Seth Dillen or whoever, like constantly talking about, oh, the threats against being people are mean to me. Come on. You know, you chose to be in this. Just man up. He did, but he shouldn't have to. No, I agree. No one should threaten Seth Dillen. I'm totally opposed to threatening him or anyone else. Just saying like talking about yourself is that? That's our problem though. See, that's the, that's how they got us in this catch 22, which is, well, nobody can complain because we're, you know, mainly men and we're what we take it up the chamber. We don't complain. But then they get away with everything and people go, wait a minute. You had to say like, I think that most people, if you told them, oh, yeah, like I remember when I was, when Douglas Mackey got wrongfully arrested and charged for a crime he didn't commit and it's been proven that we didn't commit the crime that I remember sitting out with my kids and I go, hey, kids, I just, you know, want to let you know, you know, talk to my wife, hey, like, you know, here's your money. Here's where the money is. You know, it's all in like your name. I don't have anything. And how my kids, hey, kids, like they might take daddy away. Like the bad guys might come and get daddy and you know, it'll be okay and everything. Do that. If we don't talk about it, then nobody knows. Right. Right. I don't want to fucking crime a real man. I'm a doodoo doodoo. It's like great. And then nobody knows. And then people get like, wait a minute, John Eastman, a distinguished law professor wrote a memo that wasn't even acted on. He just lost his life, lost his position at Chapman, his standing in the world, even his law license, his ability like Arnold Living. This is like, this is what is happening. So we do need to bitch more to be honest. That's our problem. That's the exploit. And whatever our DNA is or whatever our operating software is or whatever our genetics is, that's our exploit is we just sort of you just take the hits. You take the hits, you endure the weight of life. Yeah, dad doesn't complain. That's what you do. And then they're taking and then they take our country and then they fuck us up like one by one. So I remember like some guy showed up to Flint. Is this place to kill him and then end up killing somebody else down the street shows up people like, well, they didn't even know. It was like, because you're not supposed to talk about it. And Flint is his credit. Yeah, I mean, I gave him a chance to talk about it and whatever you think of Flint is, but he did not marinate in his victimhood at all. Yeah. So Blooney goes up to Cattern's house, tries to get him. They go after Benny Johnson. They go after Seth Dylan. Candace Owens has had threats. Charlie Kirk is killed. So I think it's, there's a way to talk about these. And that's why the Charlie Kirk thing really was a frustrating thing for me because I mean, it was a tragic thing. You know, like, for sure, that sounds so like shallow. I just thought that people would realize they're like, they're hunting us for sport. All of us talker, they're hunting you. If they could get Shapiro, they would get Shapiro. If they could get Walsh, they could get Walsh. If they could get Candace, they could get Candace. And in any of these railies and in any of the Jews that are doing it, it's a violent feral, terrorists, we all bullshivic left. And they would get all of us if they could. So whatever acrimony we have, which is like, I'm not a unity guy. I'm a guy who likes, you know, likes the mix, maybe too much. But like, do they're going to kill us? They're going to kill all of us. And we need to figure out, we need to figure out some kind of way to co-exist with one another understanding that the Theratican style is existential. And they would, the left if they could kill Seth Dylan, they'd be glad to kill him. But they could kill you. They'd be glad to kill you. That's just another, another notch on their ball, their point on the scoreboard. So what's, I mean, what's the administration doing with this? That, I mean, that was, that was my problem with the Trump's first term is the political violence Trump supporter, because again, we're just supposed to deal with it, just deal with it was completely, almost completely ignored during this first term. Is it still being ignored? And under my definition, it is. Yeah. The rest of some people, there, there's more happening than the first term, but the, the response is not what I would like to see. So the claim when Charlie was murdered was that this was in Tifa or in some in Tifa, Jason person or organization. I don't, I don't know if that's true. I don't know anything about it. I think it's an absolute true. I don't know that, but, and I, I don't have any other theories. I just, I don't even understand the story. But, but if people said it was true, so like, okay, where's the round of Vintifa? So there, I say, sorry, you got a dog sneezing right there. That's good, good, good, good puppy. So the, no, I'm a, I mean, I think it was Tyler Robinson. I think a 22 year old man on a mission is a very dangerous thing. And that I think that there were other people and those discord servers and there were people tweeting something big is going to happen tomorrow. And after tomorrow, Charlie won't be around anymore. So I'm very frustrated that there doesn't seem to be much interest in maybe, maybe those people were just guessing or maybe they were trolling, but there doesn't seem to be much interest in finding out who those, who those other people are. Why do you think that's what doesn't make any sense to me? I always, I always go back to the Garland Texas mass shooting, which is to me, this is like the skeleton key of it all. So Pamela Galler, who's very much pro Israel about his hardcore as you can be on the issue, did a drama, a homie contest. And there was going to be a bunch of other people also like a very pro Israel and as you had, he was going to shoot the place up. The, he was Texas, he got taken out, but by accident of faith, an accident of fate, a local law enforcement officer pulled over an FBI agent who was fleeing the scene, got the guy's phone and the text message to the jihadist, tear up Texas. Sounds unbelievable. So how to put it through. Senator Grassley has asked for information twice from Ray and Garland has been stonewalled. I don't know why cash but I won't release it. I've asked everybody up as high as the food chain as you can get why we can't get it. And what's the answer? My, my belief is that there's that MKL, train ever ended, Co-Intel Pro MKL, which was of course the microtrol experiments they conducted on people where the, the book chaos covered this and great detail for people who are curious about that about the Charles Manson murders. Manson murders and then there was that Air Force guy who was drugged up and killed somebody and that didn't even make sense and I even know about that. That book was completely mind blowing. I do think they still have whatever armor that is whether that's within the FBI or some other dark site within the intelligence community. I'm certain that that, that that still exists. So because of that, you don't get, you don't get, you're not going to get any information about that because I do think there would be some kind of dark op because what a lot of people, again, it's just the title book shows the agenda. It's just chaos. Get out, get everybody afraid, get everybody panicked. Usher and Morse surveillance technology, usher in a surveillance state, bring in an arco tyranny where if you're law abiding, everything you do is monitored by flock and all these traffic cameras, everything you do is monitored. But if you're a drug addict on the street, you have free rein you do anything you want. This was the Bolshevik method. There was a Sultzenese quote Alexander Sultzenese quote where it went, I don't have the exact quote, but the substance of it was. Your punishment for having a knife was different for the thieves. When you had a knife, it was terrorism. When the thief had it, it was just his way of life. And that's what we're living under now, the modern and arco tyranny. So what do they have in common? Like why does this same phenomenon re-occur? Yes, it's the battle, the battle between people say good and evil, but you would just say like logos and chaos, logos to divine order, the order of God, the unison of people, the fellowship of people versus the chaos and the acrimony and the evil of the dark one, Satan, demons, every religious tradition has a even dualistic religions or polytheistic religions have chaos gods, right? So even if you're not monotheistic, which I'm monotheistic, obviously, but everybody has had those, the chaos agents. So chaos is destroying the divine order and the divine communion of people. So you don't see this as political battles, but as manifestations of a spiritual battle. It's, yeah, so spiritually, yeah, the political is what you see. The spirituals which talk about them people will make fun of you and say you're crazy. I don't think they make fun of you anymore, do they? Much less so. So you had a tweet about this yesterday, I think. If you were a demon with dominion over the planet and you wanted to increase the amount of human suffering across the world, you would eliminate the white population. Yeah, yeah, that, so you see, you see what's happening, the death of whites, their massive contraction as a racial group globally. You see that as a manifestation of the spiritual war. Ireland really is the Rosetta Stone, I think in all of this, because you can, again, even if right or wrong, you could at least rationalize. Radege was an evil apartheid state and they had to give it over to Mugabe and it became a zombie. But you know what? They did the right thing and had a bad outcome. I don't agree with that, but you could, there's a chain of logic. Okay. They did the right thing that ended apartheid and led to a bad result. Maybe they could have transitioned it better, but there is a A to B to see a thing. They were right. Ireland, they were colonized by the white Irish were colonized by the white British. They were starved. Their resources were plundered. They had the potato, they had the potato famine. They lived like churches were desecrated. Churches were desecrated. They were enslaved people, but they have to be punished. Oh, I agree. Why do the Irish, right? To me, that's when, if people think that tweet sounds crazy or any of this is crazy, then you have to tell me why do the Irish have to pay? Totally. Restitution. That gives up the whole game. Gives up the whole game. So this is a manifestation of the spiritual or the destruction of whites. Yeah. And then why that is? I don't know yet. I'll still unravel it, but you can't deny it when you look at Ireland and you look what is happening. Look what's happening globally. You look what is happening in the US and it has been happening for decades. But again, that goes back to you. You don't want to talk about how you could be killed any day and that's just something you live with and I just live with it knowing that at any moment I could be gone, removed one way or another. How does that change the way you live, that knowledge? When you know, when you know, it's like it's like momentum or so the the air again. Or whatever. Because I pretend to be arrogant on the internet sometimes, but people who know me sort of find that kind of funny, but the there's a there's one there's like a deep weight that you carry. Just a deep weight where you know that what you do has consequences and you need to really focus on doing the right thing. That's consequences for yourself in the country. Because if we do lose the amount of human suffering is going to be a measurable in the US and globally. It's like it isn't it. When you read about the hall the more you read about the Cambodia genocide, you read about the the Gulag. It's just a scale of human suffering beyond beyond human understanding and where the remaining ball work against it. So you're just left with a sense of like and then you're you're like I have a thing kind of a bit I do online. Although it's really true. I have like I've worn fun. So you don't get to have fun. I don't get to have fun. That doesn't mean I don't enjoy my life. It doesn't mean that I don't have a cigar and mountain bike and do other things, but I just I don't get to have fun. That's not the cars to me. I don't get to have fun. I have to live like a serious person who knows I could be killed that my friends could be killed in the case of Charlie. A friend will be killed that even people like something then that I may not see eye to eye with like they could get killed. Any of that could be killed on any given day. And so in a way it's like being in it's not being in a combat zone in a way, but it is a way of it is a formal warfare. So I just I don't get to like have fun. I don't get to like goof off or live. So it gives you like meaning in some ways. It gives you like it. Yeah, meaning is a complicated subject, but it gives your life a you certainly have a purpose, right? Where you know that and this is true of everybody or how people should live is what you do does have significance and consequence and you do have to you do have to make it count. That sounds I mean in some ways worse, but in most ways better than living without that knowledge that it could end. Well, that's the meaning that's the meaning kind of paradox. I think that's why some people call it the meaning crisis. Before that, Jonathan hate wrote a book, the happiness hypothesis and meaning is this concept where if you chase meaning, you can't find meaning, but you find meaning by living in a certain way. And then you go, oh, this is like this is meaning. So I give you I have these weird, it's like a hyper reality. You just did a film on this. I should work it on it. Yeah, we're in. We're in. Yeah. So explain this through that lens. Okay. Well, the, you know, you get when you get older, you want to do things that are interesting and hard. And I think doing a movie on the meaning of life is about as hard as they get right. And there so you would say like, what is the meaning of life, which I've asked everybody and people have their own answers. But sometimes it's good to sort of attack it from the inverse, which is what would be a meaning of life. The meaningless life would be all this suffering of yourself and others, all the human suffering. It was just the way it is. We were just animals and we were bred by some kind of alien species to harvest gold. And if people got harmed or genocide or whatever, that was just there's no reckoning at the end. That, that to me gives me nightmares. Yeah. I think there's no reckoning or no. So then you would say, well, that would be meaningless. Okay. That's, I'm chasing whatever that is. So then you start to think of meaning. Who what is that? Well, meaning is it communion with God is a catharsis. It's that whatever it was, whatever, you know, there's a saying like the only way out is through is like, whatever this is, that you're going to get through it. And there is a divine evening out of everything and that everything did have a point and everything did matter. And everything happened for a reason, not because you're an actor who doesn't have agency. But because it was part of, it was part of the ride. It's like, I got chunks taken out of me. There's no, like there's, you've got chunks, everybody has. You know, again, we're not supposed to talk about it because we're so, you know, macho, macho men. But like, I think I'm like, sometimes I'm just like, dude, I'm tired, man. Like it is just like having to live like that, especially into the Biden regime. I am the censorship regime where as an adult man, you can't even say what you believe because your whole livelihood will be destroyed. You might not be able to have a bank account. Right. That was like the way you kind of lived. And you have chunks taken out of you and to think that that was for nothing. Right. Like losing, which is how meaning ties into I think the political melee is losing would be the most meaningless thing in the world. There's this painting somebody posted and I'm going to reproduce in an oil painting. And it's of when the Bolsheviks took over the palace at the Bolshevik Revolution and it just shows this, it just fills me with this like rage. You're just staring at evil. And I look at like this is what losing looks like. Losing looks like you're lined up next to your kids and they start shooting you but the kids don't die right away so they bayonet your kids in front of you. That's what losing looks like. People, people used to say, oh, it's starting to get crazy. That sounds crazy. I remember they'd say that 2015, 2016, oh, you're so hyperbole. Now everybody, that's what losing looks like. Losing doesn't mean, oh, you're going to have a wealth tax and you're going to have to pay a little bit more taxes. Losing is you are lined up in the basement and they are killing your kids in front of you. That is what like losing is. Well, to me, that's meaningless. To me, that's the antithesis of like whatever the meaning of life is. So the connection between really meaning and what do you mean? Well, I don't know. I mean, the basis of Christianity is this guy who Christians believe was God who came down and then like brought up on false charges and tortured to death, but that he did that so we didn't have to. He took on the burden of a lot of people take the Christ martyrdom as some kind of message that we should become martyrs. And I always say there's been one martyr Christ died on the cross. I didn't die on the cross. I didn't want to. Christ did that and he took on the sins of mankind and he did that for us. I'm not here to be crucified and take on the sins of mankind. That's not me if anything. It was almost like a egotistical to think that I should be a martyr and that that would be a way to go. So I reject martyrdom theology fully. Interesting. Yeah. So what is the meaning if the meaning is not getting lined up against the wall with your kids? The meaning is communion, the divine communion, meaning it's divine communion, everything is divine communion. The interacting with God. Interacting with God in the downstream, the communion of people. So I'll have these moments of like hyper reality where I'm like wrapped up on my own bullshit and you know, what if I do this and you know in your own head. Then I'm on the couch with my kids and there's just like a moment of like stillness and never last. There's just like a moment of like stillness where you for it doesn't last. No. Well in my own bullshit, fucked up brain too. You know, like a lot of you know, there's a lot of us we make prisons of our own mind right? Of course. And we the demon steal our joy. You're just you're having a moment and then like what about this? There deep states coming for you or you know one thing after another and. There's just these moments of like stillness and you know, this is what it's about. You know, but that's as because of our primitive brains or whatever our problems are probably because we're not in the garden of Eden is we just can't maintain divine connection. The monks can, but it's a great aesthetic. I always get that word wrong with saddicism. I always get that bad. Yeah, I'm bad with my saddicism. But they have it's a constant effort. You know, that's why you know that they're living on a pillar of salt or an decay. Yeah, yeah. And it's like the arrow prayer is like, God, you know, Jesus Christ have mercy on me. I'm a set. You know, you have to constantly be connected with the divine and then lean into your heart more to distract us from the egoism, which but you have to have some kind of egoism if you live in the world. You can't just not participate in the world. So there's this tension between divine connection, which means surrendering yourself to the full presence of God, right? First is, okay, but I have to like pay my bills, dude. You know, like I have to, I have to make my way in this world. Then those are constantly attention, but then something, and this is probably why there's a more of a rise for like Eastern Orthodoxy and older religious traditions and Christianity as the, and I love Protestants. So no offense to the Protestants, but Protestantism is very, was very waspish, waspish, it's like by the book. The Bible says this and like here's the scriptures and it's very much of the mind, Christian apologetics. Oh, well, you think this is the Trinity and it's like arguing back and forth, but you're like existing in mind. Whereas the Eastern traditions, and by Eastern, I don't mean Hinduism, but even though Hinduism has a, but Eastern Orthodoxy needs to Christianity. Is also about the knowledge of the heart and the tension that you feel every day, like a, every day, I just feel a great spiritual tension where I don't, like if you asked me, you're going to go to heaven and hell, I said, I don't, God help me. I don't know. I don't know. Like are you a good person or bad person? God help me. I don't know. I don't know. I don't have a good answer to that. It makes it weird to when like people go at you because you're just like, how do you know for me to defend myself? Maybe that, you know, maybe I am. You know, like what am I? And, but you can find a certain amount of meaning in that. There's like a certain amount of meaning and confusion. Like maybe that's how it was supposed to be that we are spirits and human bodies because the, you know, if you read your old philosophy, there's debate on mind, body, dualism, and there's, there is a sense that we've all had that, am I a body? Am I a mind? Well, God, we're both. We're, we are both. We're a mind and a body. And, or a spirit and a body. And there's going to be tension between this. The, we, you know, we wrestle against the flesh. And so maybe that's the right answer. Maybe the right answer is to not be so sure that you're right and that you're such a righteous and holy person. And maybe the right answer is, I don't know. I honestly don't know. But humility is always the right answer. You're not God. But you could be proud of humility. You know, there's a great, of court well, of course. Benjamin Frank is one of the best favorite writers and he said he would keep a list of the virtues. And he said, I was, I would, he said, I have achieved all virtues, but I found that I, myself became proud of my humility. I realized like that was going to get me. So, yeah, the, yeah, so there is, there is like a meeting crisis because there, that's why we have the opioid epidemic. Yes. We have people, but even people who are successful at drug overdose, so they blow up their family lives because they're, they're thinking, is this really all there is? How I, I did the right things and so even if you end up in a success, beer, you're still having those nights one day. Well, maybe especially. And maybe that describes the politics you were talking about earlier where a lot of a ruling class is just bored and let's, let's hurt people just to shake it up a little bit. Yeah. Well, I think a lot of them are driven by demonic spirits. And those people, I think it's less of a, less of a meeting crisis and it's more of a, we can evil and evil animating force. Okay. So, how do you recognize that? What, there's got to be a difference between just being wrong, which I have done many times, probably even today and being animated by an evil spirit. The angel and demon on your shoulder. Yeah. I mean, that's where the, that's where the discernment that people talk about so often is something that I think about ever, you know, so who do you, who do you look at from afar and perceive to be controlled by evil spirits? Most, I mean, when I go to DC, although it felt a little bit, it felt like I had accessism recently, is I remember you go to DC and you just feel, you just, just like, what is this? Yeah. What is this demonic place? This place is the playground, playground of the demons. The whole, the whole place, the whole place, I just, to name one person would be to not do justice for the demonic forces at work. And you see, even recently, if you look in the department of justice, have you ever looked at the call artwork and at DOJ? No. That I'll show you some pictures. That's the DOJ. Next time you're at DOJ, go get a tour and go look at all the, call artwork. And why is there a cult artwork of the department of justice? It shows, by the way. That's because they take, they take their religion seriously. We might not take our religion seriously, but they take it seriously. The bad guys take their religion quite seriously. And they have, they have a religion. They have a God. Their God is an our God. Their God is the anti and the enverse of our God, but they absolutely have a religion. They're, a call artwork is everywhere. It's mortifying. And when you, when you get the tour, you can probably find the pictures online. So that's what we're up. That's what we're up against. What's on the dollar bill? Yeah. Well, some of that, the cult symbolizes a complicated one because, like is, we had Jonathan Pazzoz and it was interviewed for meaning. And I was like, I'm like, ever since with Iawaska, I'm like obsessed with what does this serpent mean? Because under the, kind of the mainline Protestant understanding the serpent tempted Eve, serpent is bad. The snakes are evil. Serpent's not good. It's more complicated than that. So, and he's orthodox Christians. So he, he wrote an article, the serpents of orthodoxy where he goes, because there's, there was a staff with two serpents moving around. There, you know, there's DNA. There was even before the double helix structure of DNA was discovered. There was a two serpents wrapped around that sort of, but was understood. Iawaska, the cosmic serpent. A lot of people see serpents. And that, you know, that's a whole other, you've seen serpents while doing Iawaska. I felt, felt it moving through me just like flowing through me. Serpents. Snake. Oh, yeah. Yeah. So that doesn't, I mean, I'm, I'm no shaman, but that doesn't sound good. Well, that's what sent you on these like quests. So, so we wouldn't be having this conversation if I, because for one thing, you know, for Christians, Iawaska is like strictly forbidden. So I don't, I don't want to seem like I'm glamorizing it in any way, shape or form, but that there what I, you have gone on multiple Iawaska journeys over the years. And for me, it's been completely transformed my heart. It's transformed how I see my children. It's the way, the way I like interact with the world that got me interested Christianity again, because well, so the thing is God can meet you wherever you are, right? Which is why there is good and evil. So it isn't to say there's no such thing as good and evil. But God, God can meet you wherever you are. And God, we God can go anywhere and meet you wherever you are. So in my case, I was not someone who I never had any kind of faith because I never felt anything. I would, I would go to church and I grew up very Christian. And I would like try to feel it. I was like, what are these people like, they're just not, this just isn't it. What is it that they feel like? Is everybody in on something that I'm not in on? Is everybody faking like I'm faking because I don't believe anything. And that was because I had no, whatever, whatever, six cents people have for God, I didn't have it. I didn't have the God gene. And then I remember, you know, first time drinking tea and being catapulted to the spirit world. And I was like, okay, the spirit world is real. Ha, that's okay. That's not even up for debate now to the point where it doesn't even offend me when people are atheists or don't believe in. I was like, well, I didn't believe in it either. I had to see it with my own eyes. Paul, he had to be knocked over and be out to do. Blinded, yeah. So for me, that was like my, my Paul moment where I was like, okay, well, somehow I ended up here drinking tea with no belief at all in God or the spiritual realm at all. And now I absolutely know it's real. And what, you know, went through a number of things and, you know, and if you want to go in all that, but I do. Like why'd you do I waskin in the first place? For the wrong reason, which was for the ride, you know, what was 100 times the said, by the take a take the ride. Yeah. So many people just sit around ruminating all day or daydream and all day. Maybe all this, maybe all this. I've always been a just by the take a take the ride. What's it like by the take a take the ride? So I thought, well, I mean, I've done a lot of things in life before and I felt like I, I felt like I was pretty sure of myself that I knew how to live and was arrogant in a lot of ways. I thought, well, you know, I've done everything else. Like, am I supposed to do I waska, you know, by everything else, I don't mean drugs. I just mean like I was so full of myself and my own ego that I just thought I knew so much about life. And I was such a wonderful person that obviously I would just do this because that's what people who are so, you know, so great, so great. Do right. I'm so great. I'll just do this like other thing and it like broke my heart, broke my heart over and over again. I just like broke my heart. And so the way the way it works is you're, you know, you drink the tea and you just kind of like look around look at it. I think that's a mistake. And then you sort of like you kind of like start to fall under and you venture to the spirit world, but you don't, it's not like you're here and I'm walking around La La I'm in the spirit world. You're taken to a place where you have no free will. You have no power. You are more insignificant than an insect on this world. And you start to journey and it, you know, experience racing. So I was a one, I give you an example because it's kind of hard to explain, but I remember like I'm drinking the tea and sometimes you have like a little bit of a light show when you go into spirit world, you hear like a buzzing sound like bees and then you see like a little bit of light, a little vapor on the side like, and then you get the DMT sort of light show that people associate with a psychedelic experience. That's the least significant part of the night. But a lot of times you start to get the light show, would you think, oh, okay, I'm into somewhere, but there's a sense of like there's me and I'm in, I'm into something. And you go through there and then you become completely disoriented. You wake up and you look, you know, where am I at first? Where am I? I remember I woke up, I go, look around because you're laying down, you can't walk around, you're laying down, I look up and I go, where am I? I go, oh yeah, I'm Mike Surnovich and I'm in this place. I'm on this mat and I got dropped off and then I walked in here and I saw this person and then I came in and I drank the tea. Okay, cool, sake, you're reassuring yourself. Close my eyes, wake up. Where am I? Oh, I'm Mike Surnovich, I'm in this room and I came in, oh yeah, I got dropped off. I'm doing eye-wast, okay, cool. Okay, cool. Close my eyes, pew. Wake up. I'm Mike Surnovich. Where am I? Close my eyes. Ch. Wake up. I'm, uh, where am I? Wake up. What the fuck? Ah, dead, dead. There is no eye, dead, dead. Ah, and as I'm falling down into like wherever I'm falling into, I see like my kid's surface and my wife's surface and I was, for all purposes, dead. I was overwhelmed with the feeling that I was dead. It's like I'm dying, I'm dead. There was no eye, there wasn't even an eye who's experienced it and I'm dead. And then like all I could think of was like are my kids going to be okay? Is my wife going to be okay? Are people going to be okay? How is that so foolish? How was that so foolish? How, I was so, I remember like when I find in my kids like college fund, I was like okay, like my kids are set, like I can die, you know, like what do I need to be around for? Like because I grew up poor, like then you learned that you're on trauma and everything. I was like okay, like my kids are good, my wife's good, like everybody's good. You know, everybody's good. They're me taking care of whatever happens to me, you know, because part of this is like, you know, knowing that you could be killed or framed any day. And I'm like okay everybody's okay. And I remember I'm dying. I just heard a voice that you fool. You fool, they're not okay. They're not okay. They're not okay. Where what is wrong with you? And I was just left with the sense of I just, I'm a fool and I live my life foolishly. And I can't believe that I was such a fool. And I'm dead now. And it's like too late. And then I wake up and I'm like, I'm puking at a bucket. You know, so they call it like a spiritual purge. And I remember being like, I'm still alive. I'm still alive. Like looking around, you know, like looking at this bucket, like I'd never been, you know, everybody's afraid of throwing up on Iowaska. I'm like, oh, you will. That will be the best part of the night. That will be that you will be thanking God that you're alive, like throwing up in a bucket. And I was like, oh, I'm alive. Okay, I'm alive. And then, but then that's just like, that was five minutes. That was just five minutes. And then you like go back under and then it's like another thing, another catharsis, like another like time loop. So I remember I get up and I look around and there's this woman walking around and she's carrying the buckets because you know, people are throwing up and everybody's sick and you just so you have kind of the, the shaman guy or facilitator and then you have to like, the helper. And there's this person, you know, she's walking around and she's carrying a bucket, carrying, and I wake up and I look and I go, oh, there she is carrying the bucket. And then I close my eyes. You come back up, time loop. So time loop means like, I'm reliving this moment with you. And I remember reliving this moment with you, but I'm like stuck in it like round hard day. Time loop and this first time it happened to me and that's a real like my fuck. So I get up and like, oh, she's like carrying things. Okay, she's cleaning up after people and then I thought, you know, how nice fall, fall sleep, wake back up. I go, man, look at, she's like so helpful and I couldn't do that. Like I couldn't clean up after puke on other people. I just, I don't know how they do this. And then I wake up and I'm in the time loop again. I'm like, what, what, like why am I in this time loop? You know, and like you start to feel like you're going insane. Like why am I stuck in this time loop? And I close my, and I put up and I go, it's said, you didn't even know her name. You never introduced yourself to her. You didn't talk to her. You don't talk to people. You just look through people. You don't get to know people. You're so arrogant. This person is doing something you could never do because you don't have the humility. You're so, you can never clean up after other people. You don't give a shit. You don't give a shit. But you'd even like look this person in the eyes and just say like, hey, you know, what's your name? How'd you get here? You just came in here to drink your tea selfishly like the arrogant perk that you are. And because you wanted to take the ride, you know, you want to take the ride and you're just a bad person. I was like, what the fuck? You know, and then so that was more or less my night. And you see demons over and over and over again. Oh, yeah, that was so you can see demons. You can see demons. I remember being taunted. So so that's what's weird about it is it's like it's like scenes of a movie with generally there's a catharsis. You don't know. That's why they just say before you go and they go, the only way out through. You know, like, yeah, go fuck yourself. The only way out through what kind of shit is that? The only way out through what the fuck does that mean? You know, again, that was my arrogance and my own delusion. And that's true in life though. Yeah, yeah. And I was just, and you're like, what does that mean? Well, it means that no matter how bad it is with the ayahuasca, I remember I would, I would, you know, I would do mask and then I would open up the mask and try to look around and a demon at whatever it is. It's entity says, oh, you think you're going to open your eyes and it's just show me like the most fucked up things I've ever seen. People being tortured to death killed like horror like the road. Have you ever seen the movie the road? Like a cannibal, like a horror film. And then it said, oh, you think you can take your eye mask off? You can't run. You're running from yourself. You're trying to run from yourself and you can never run for yourself. I'm like, what am I running from? Then I'm like, what am I running from? What do you mean? Because if you talk to me at that point in my life, you would be talking to a very cocksh, you'd not be talking to this person. You would be talking to a person who's like, oh, yeah, I got things figured out, man. I got things figured out and I can prove it. I grew up poor. I've had some things happen that haven't been so good in my life. I've had to navigate life with a bipolar mom. Pah, da da da da da. Like I know life. You talked to me now. I mean, I have ideas, you know, things that I think are like the path forward, but that person was just shown you are in the spirit realm. You're nothing. You're nothing and you're so arrogant. You're out here, you have no power. So this is your running from yourself. I was like, what am I running from? And it goes all that, success you chased and all the whatever it is I was trying to do. They go, that was just masking your heart, the trauma, the trauma that you have. And everything you're doing is just to mask that. That's bullshit, you know, that doesn't make any sense. So it's like, okay, because you're, and by this, I mean, you're talking to a guide. So when I'm saying this, this is not like an internal monologue. This is, you're talking to something outside of yourself. It's like Dante's in front of like the guide. And the guide said, okay, you know, big mouth, you want to argue? Like we'll just vortex you back. And the spirit realm. So then it's like you close your eyes. That's why I'm like, it's like, and seeing you're like, oh, you're like, you're in like a new scene. And then it like, it shows you something from like when you were a child or maybe in my case, it was like something from when I was like a child that was, remember, it was showing me, it was showing me the house I grew up in. And I was like, why is it showing me the house like my house? I grew up in this like small, shitty house. I hated it. We had holes in the carpet. Like I was embarrassed and bring people over. I was like, why? Why am I being shown my house? Like I hate that fucking house. I hate this fucking house. Why are you showing me this house? And then it, and then like a voice is like, you had all the love in the world in that house. Your dad loved you, your mom loved you. They did the best they could do. And you think that you can just like give your kids money because that's your own thing. You know, like when you grew up poor, so, but it's like you took the love for granted. You just like, you had all this love, but you didn't have money. So then that becomes your hang up. Like, oh, do I have enough? Fend. Like, well, if my kids have enough, what do you need, what do you need me for? You know, like what's that for? It was, it was like all the love in the world was in the house and you hated the house. And you like, you didn't even know it. And I was like, whole fuck, you know, so like, I always loved my dad and had good relationship. I was like, oh my god. Like, it was like, and what was it like for your dad to be poor? Like, not how to make a lit. What was that like for him? You know, and you're just like, oh, fuck, you know, like, he was poor too. You guys were just poor. That was like the town lost the factory and people were jobless. And that's just every kid's dad went through the same thing. You worked at a factory and then you had to find some other kind of shitty job and you kind of find something else and then eventually my dad figured it out. By then I was like, in high school, so it didn't really impact my life either way. And then I was like, oh, fuck, I have all these issues around money. It's just in a way that's like traumatic. You know, not just in a way that, you know, people need money to live and you want to be greedy. And, but I like, I had no idea. And I never would, I never would like reach that conclusion emotionally. And then, and then you're like zooming out and it's just like, oh, it's like, you're like loves the love of your family, the love that God has for you. And then, and I was like, fuck, okay, so then I close my eyes like you wake back up and it's like, look, it was literally like an old grandfather or something like something I had a candle for something. And it's like, look, and it goes. It's like in a very calming like massive voice, it says it's not supposed to be this way. And it was just like, it was like doing this. It's like it's not supposed to be this way. And I look at it like, like I said, I'm laying down and I look and I see this Gandalf like figure floating in like, it's not supposed to be this way. And I was like, what's not supposed to be this way? And then he just showed all the the lights like the lights are all separate now. You're supposed to be together. It's supposed to be communion. It's supposed to be that everyone's loving each other and you just want to like kill each other. And he goes, this is not how it's supposed to be. It was like, it was like a frustrated dad who was like, this is like, this is not how it's supposed to be. This is not how it's supposed to be. And I was like, well, okay, you know, this is so above my pay grade, you know, I don't even know, like, and that's how I know it's not coming for me. I'm like, if I could come up with stuff like this, people would think I was a genius. You know, this is not my brain and I'm so smart. And then I like, go back under and then I come back up and hear this like scream. And it was like the scream of an enraged mom. Basically screaming it like the same situation. So then, you know, it takes years to put all this together and everything, but that was like showing me the masculine, the logos and the way like a father in governs and then like the rage of a mom and the children like are not getting together and the tension of the tension of male and female. And then I like, I saw old woman's face on a mountain. I was like, I don't even know where this from. I never read any books before this. That's pochamama. So that's a different kind of entity. So in that case, I saw like whatever, whatever pochamama was, the, you know, mother earth or whatever, and paganism that people describe it as. So I'm just going, you know, back and forth between flashbacks to my life, which you saw a demon that others identified. A woman's had it a mountain. Yeah, yeah, pochamama. I had no idea. Yeah, I didn't, I didn't do my research before going in. So I know like I, so what you're saying is these are definitely not parts of your subconscious that rose to the surface. Yeah, there, yeah, there are, unless it's a parabola or unconscious is, you know, there's a theory that that that aren't conscious is generating our experience in real time. But it's not, it wasn't me. It wasn't a book I read. It was because I was again, like atheist. So every rationalistic argument they could say, well, you probably just like, no, I never studied Aztec culture and culture. But I know pochamama was. And so there was, they're like their external entities. So the, the older figure you could say, maybe, well, that was the guardian and you read Dante's Inferno and high school. Right. That was some thing in unconscious that surfaced. But pochamama and other kind of entities were not, so beyond my cultural understanding or my knowledge. So yeah, so then you're going, like you're going back into that. And like you go through it really, I mean, it's not a pleasurable, there aren't a lot of ayahuasca addicts, right? And it's not covered by Medicaid. No, no, they, they're, which is, which is a good thing because I, I don't know a lot of you don't want to some fly by night shaman or you know, but the wrong situation. It's all in Mexico, right? A lot of things can go bad. They're, they're different areas. I saw the Africa. I had done it before and how many times have you done it? Nine, 10 times actually. Yeah. They're, oh yeah, they're it because it's just you go in and the I had a lot of, I had a lot of things that I had to beat on me. I used to like, just like we're earlier, we're talking about how you, you know, a certain monoscow is something we all have, which are like, I think it's good. And I think their put culture goes too far where you don't want to sit around and like talk about how bad being it was being a kid. But a lot of us, and I learned this dealing with a lot of, a lot of veterans have done plant medicine. I don't know if you've seen in waves and war yet with ambus, amber, Marcus, McCone, a Capone, amber, Marcus Capone. They're amazing. So you have all these vets who were suicidal. And then they, a lot of them do eye bogeyne. They go down to eye bogeyne clinic. That's what vets is a charity. I've sponsored donated to, you know, for a number of years and vet solutions. And so with me, you realize that like a lot of what we do, that we think of as virtuous is trying to, we're trying to hide something from ourselves. We're trying to make it so that we can't be vulnerable. And so with veterans, especially they, you know, they find out a lot of things have happened with their kids. And that's why they became the men they were because you're driven by the sense that like, I'll never be weak and powerless again. Right. I'll never be weak and powerless again. Which that's a good thing. You shouldn't be weak and powerless. But if you have all this other stuff underneath that, then maybe you don't love your kids the way you're capable of or maybe you're afraid to love your kids and why if the way you are because maybe you're, you are afraid to be hurt. And that's another aspect. I think we're theoretical therapy culture has taken things too far where you're like, oh, let's like talk about our trauma like all day and relive things where it's not like, but maybe for a weekend. Maybe spend a weekend and talk about it and figure it out then and work through it. You don't have to like live it. So I just, I had so many lessons on how, how is just a fool basically? Just a fool. Well, that sounds, I mean, I mean, I love that. My concern is if the demons are real, aren't you afraid they'll enter you? That's, that's the big debate, right? Sarah from Rose wrote a book, The Soul After Death. So if you talked to Josiah, Trinum, he would just say, well, this is the moniker in this pharmacia and absolutely, like, absolutely not. That's kind of my instinct. It wouldn't even be a debate. Yeah. There's, there's really like no debate to be had. And my, position is I always warn people away from it because it's a monumental undertaking. It's not just something that, oh, yeah, we'll go eat some shrooms and go take a hike in nature. Right. Not in the same world. And a lot can go wrong and it can disrupt a person's life. Well, I've seen that. Yeah. Two with with people's lives being destroyed by heavy duty, like in what way? I don't know if I need to kill themself. It was from LSD, but, you know, yeah, wrecked relationships. Yeah, LSD, LSD's poisonous that they can cause a lot of issues. And the, that's why it's more, more or less like if you're the like the guys, especially at Vets and an amber markets and then work with these are guys that are going to kill themselves in their alcoholics most likely. We're not, we're not talking like, oh, I'm living like life is great. And I'm living in a state of love. I'm going to go drink. I'll ask you this weekend. Right. It's more like or in my case where you're just being pushed there because I was living in such a state of folly and delusion that there, there was like no other way. So in my, in my belief, I think God pushed me there. I think I think it was God and he showed me this is the only way that I can show you that you are just not who you, you are just a delusional fool. And this is the only way that we're going to know. Yeah. And the message like got through. And then, you know, I have drank and you know, I had more T sense than, but it's not something that I do regularly. So what about the threat though of the demon entering you? You said you had serpents inside you. I should just say I believe you. But I mean, the consequences of being, I mean, the first missionary trip, Jesus sends the disciples on all he says is cast out demons, the whole new testament. Jesus casting out demons at a disciples casting out demons like that's completely real in my opinion. Yeah. And the, but the consequence of living my, I was probably demon possessed before the ayahuasca because I was so, I'd been deluded by dark forces and thinking that I was something that I wasn't. Yeah. So in my view, it isn't where, oh, I was such a holy person. In my mind, I would have thought I was. Yeah. No, it's like the opposite where I, whatever I was before that, I'm not that way now. And whatever path I'm on is like about God and Christianity and like trying, you know, finding more love in the world and divine communion and just knowing that you're just not like, you're just not a paycheck to your kids, you know, and I didn't even treat them like I was just a paycheck, but it was just some, it was, I was just, it was a glibness that I had. So it's just the, the ayahuasca is just burned out all the glibness that I had where I can't even laugh at things sometimes. I'm just like, I just, that's just not funny. I'm the way I'm like too serious. It's like, why are you laughing? It's a very non-American approach to what? This is just not funny. Trump is so fun. I don't care. Fuck fun. I hate fun. What do you mean fun? We don't get to have fun on this world. Fun? You want to have fun? What do you little kid? Right? So it's, it's driven, it's driven all of that out of me in a way that I couldn't have reached intellectually. So how does it make you feel about death? It may, well, one I know there's a judgment. I don't think there's a judgment. I know there's a final judgment for sure. Really? So for me, it's not even... I think you're right, but what convinced you of that? Because I just was in the spirit world. I saw my divine judgment and my divine judgment was hell. You know, that was like my divine judgment. And so one is I just, I know there's a final judgment to the point where when people say, oh, you're whatever crazy, whatever, I don't even get offended. I'm just like, brother, that was me. I was you. I was you before this. So how can I be upset with you for thinking this when that was what I thought? Before this, like, I know there's a final judgment. I know the accounting is in the human heart. It's not the words. It's not in what you say. It's not in how holy you can be and how you can tell everybody else. They're not holy and you're, you know, you're Mr. holier than now. And everybody else is a sinner. It's your, this, the human heart is going to be weighed and measured by God in my opinion. It's Jesus Christ. And, you know, in my opinion, it's Christianity and Jesus Christ. But I'm, but I'm not a, I'm not into the apologetics where we argue in mind all day about like what it is. I think the human heart is going to be weighed. That's something that that God's going to determine at the judgment. I know that I'm accountable for everything. And I know having died, like, for all purposes, like I have died. I have died. And I know that when you die, the only thing you're going to think about is the people you left behind. So all of this materialism and oh, no, somebody, I'm, I'm being picked on today on the internet or I'm being canceled again or this and that, like none of that came up. Actually, what, one funny thing that came up was during one of my journeys, I was like, I was under and I saw some things that I came up and it goes, whatever it, whatever, that's what I mean. I don't know what it is. I just still understand it. It says, you know how blessed you are that you've been like, attacking everything. I think you can talk about anything. That's right. Doesn't matter. People are just like, oh, wow, Cernivore talks about ayahuasca. We fucking knew he was crazy anyway. You know, like this is probably the least crazy thing that he's like sat all a week. Whereas if I were more of like legitimate and respectable, then I would have to think, well, how's this going to play? How's this going to play? Should I talk about this? Should I tell talk or are people going to clip this up and make fun of me? What is this going to impact my standing with the administration and all the serious people in the world? Are they going to? None of that comes up. All that came up was arm, arm, it's my family going to be okay. That's the only thing that I could think about. So then you go from there. Well, are they? Have you loved them? Do they know you love them? Do you tell them that every day? Are you saying your prayers like every night? Because tomorrow is not promised. I could be in a car right now, flip over and die in a second. People die all the time in a second. We take it for granted. Charlie Kirk is dead. Charlie Kirk is dead. That hurt me too. That hurt me bad. I haven't cried so much in the past three months in my whole life. And I don't care to admit I've cried about it. You know, I think that's a problem people have is, oh, you know, we don't psych. I don't know. Whatever real man is, I think I'm pretty pretty high up there. And I've been crying more in the past few months than I have my whole life combined. And you realize like Charlie just died. He just went and went to work. He's dead. His kids don't see him. They're not with them. A Christmas. We're on the internet arguing about fucking Tyler Robinson. And was it the massage or was it that Charlie's kids? They don't have a Christmas with them anymore. They don't have a Christmas with them. Erica goes home to an empty house. And then she goes on the internet and everybody's just saying the worst things in the world about her. She's not even my friend, but she's a mom. There's the worst things in the world about her. And they had Christmas without their dad. What's that like? What's it like to have Christmas without your dad? A lot of people go through that. So do my kids know this might be our last Christmas together, but I'm going to be here. I'm going to try to make it home. But if I don't make it home, you know, I loved you. You know, I love you. You know that you're my world and that I'm obsessed with you. And they never for a minute. They never for a minute have to wonder what like does dad love us says dad, you know, his dad good to us. Nobody at my life, I tax my friends the most dopey shit. You know, like love you, man. Just thinking about you. Just thinking about you. I never never did that before. Just the dopey is like most sentimental stuff that you can imagine. Hope you're okay. How like think about all your friends. You have all of us have these man friends. We're also, you know, mainly me. When's the last time somebody's just like, hey bro, hope you're okay. Just thinking about you. That's nothing on that, not poetry, but I just, oh, I have a talk this kind of couple months. I'm sure he's doing fine. Maybe he's not doing fine though. Maybe he's not. Why do we think everybody's doing fine? Well, right. Why? Why? Fair. Fair. That's our delusion. That's the fault. That's the fallacy. Everybody, the, the foliar, which everybody's doing fine. And then you don't reach out and they go, well, we shouldn't have seen it coming. You know, maybe one, maybe one half. So I meditate on death. I think about every day, every day I meditate on it. And it gives me a sense of calming that makes any sense. Exactly right. Avoiding death is what makes you neurotic. Facing it makes you calm gives you peace. Because that's the root of all fear, obviously, it's the fear of dying. It's a fear of death and the fear of status and the fear of the egoistic attachments that we all throw names or representations to relationship with your wife. Just like, I'm like obsessed with my wife. Like I'm just a scent for my wife. Which, which if you, you'd have to ask her, but I don't know that she would have said that was true. Me, no, or maybe necessarily like early on, like all I think about is my wife and kids. Like, like if I make money, like, I don't even care. I just like get rid of it. You know, get it to them. Like what a people like, aren't you worried about your wife? Like leaving you or your kids. I'm like, I don't care. I mean, I really like, I don't care. I mean, signing all your money over to your wife. Yeah, yeah. You should do that. Yeah, I mean, I did. It's the right thing. No, there's a lot of peace in that too. Totally. Like you're in a blood from a turn up. Come after me and you're very, very disappointed when you start. Tempt me upside down and maybe you get a few quarters out of the pocket. So it's made me just, it's completely like obsessed with her and the kids. It's made me like, I've gotten much nicer even online than I used to be. You know, because you just think so much of it is, not perfect, you know, because people can, but I mean, my God, not even, I'm not even saying I'm good, let alone, perfect. But you just realized like, maybe that guy's just having a bad day. You know, the guy cuts you off. That's right. I'm mad. I'm honking at him. I'm going to fight. Maybe that guy's kids dead, dude. Maybe his kid is in the hospital. And now I'm just adding. So I'm always about like, I don't want to add to the trauma burden of the world. What, what, like, who knows what other people are and that doesn't mean I'm going to let people walk all over me and everything. But who knows if people are going through, man, you just like, you never know. So I think I think about that all the time. Like, I don't have, like, I don't have any doubts that my kids know where we stand, my friends know where we stand. The people who aren't my friends know where we stand, because I don't have time for like fake love and fake pleasantries and everything. Let's see. They're like, we're like, it's real or it's not, it's not real. There's just no point why even why even go into that middle space. And with I just, my love for my dad, which was always very strong was like, even stronger my empathy for my dad, my mom, you know, because you think about what you always think about what they did, right? To you, because we're the center of our own story. Because you have to be here. You can't live. I'm not, I'm not diminishing that, but then once you start thinking about like, what happened to them? What happened to them that got them? Right here. And then suddenly you're like, yeah, man, whatever. My problems are my problems are what I went through as I went through, but everybody, everybody is gone through that. Everybody's going through something. And then, and then as that expands, I think that's meaning and I think that's how you connect more with God because that's the divine communion. Empathy, you know, empathy is the part of the divine communion. That's why charities part of the divine communion. That's why these are all taught by Christ, even people who don't believe in them. See the logic in it is you're, it's just communion with the divine and the better we are to each other, the more in touch we are with the the divine and the more that we fight and we bicker and we squabble and the case of war, we kill each other the further the further away we are from God. You know, it's God Adams. Quite well. He's facing death. It sounds like. No, that's why I've been crying. I've been telling you, I've just been crying. You know, I saw some video, Sean has sent me a video and he's like, you know, a lot of people don't know this. But when I was just starting off like Mike Surnovich, like really helped me out and really boosted and it was just, it is true, but I was like, he's on his death, but he's thinking about other people. And I'm wrapped up on my own. Yeah. Bullshit. Or we all. Every day. Yeah, so he, you know, Charlie's dead, Scott's dead, we're all getting older. There's tragedy all around us every day. And you want to start thinking about your own life and not that we don't already. So it's got Adams dying. That's like a huge loss. I was again, I'd leave my house because I was crying. I was like, not that I'm afraid to cry in front of my kids, but they'd be like, well, you're crying, dad, who's, you know, it's just like, I just got to take a walk and I'm just walking and I'm like, which is another thing too. I liked about that. I couldn't cry before I walked you, like, hold it in, you know, you hold it in. And once you get good at working with the plant medicine, you learn it's just a wave, man. It's just a wave. Let the waves flow. Why are we so afraid? Like why are we so afraid to cry by ourselves? Right? Like why? If you're in a room by yourself, and things are surfacing, whether you're with the plants or not with the plants, who's there to look at you other than God? What are you afraid of? I know. What are we afraid of? That is scary. That's the ego in us that keeps us alive, but also enslaves us. That's the part that desires the illusion of control. So when you're, when you're letting things go, you have to surrender control for a minute. You do have to like lose your shit for a minute. And then that part of the egoism wants to fight against that and wants to feel like, you know, I don't do this. Yeah, be dignified. We don't do this. Like we don't cry. It's like, well, I mean, I don't think it's healthy to cry around you. Wife all the time. No, it's not. Right. I'm not a good idea. Yeah, I'm not saying walk around and like, we're, we don't cry in front of you. We're weepy. You know, we're weepy all the time, but that's who us be for celibacy. Yeah, that's that's not an ideal thing. But like when my wife had a miscarriage, I like I cried the hell out of that. I just, in my office, by myself, and I cried, and then I, you know what I noticed? I start talking to people, or I, you know, I wrote about it. They're like, I'm a miscarriage. I was like, why is it don't we talk about this? I know. You can't talk about it. That felt like a kid died. I was not even pro life at that point. I was like, yeah, politically kind of am. And when we had that miscarriage, we go, my kid died. My kid is dead. That's true. And from that, I was like, oh, pro life, you know, I just, I just was an idiot. I didn't really understand. That's such a common story that you have from people. Yeah. Yeah. But the people don't talk about it. We're right. Yeah. That's another thing. And then everybody's walking around, holding everything in. Then like, why are people getting drunk? Why are people doing opioids? Why are people? Well, I do think, because they're just like holding on to it. And then they want to mask the feelings as they bubble up. So they find alcohol, or they find drugs, or they find pornography, or the devil loves that. That's the thing, two where I go back and forth and the demonic thing with ayahuasca. I was telling a friend about this actually. I told a friend and he goes, what are you doing this weekend? I was like, oh, I got to do some fasting and then we do ayahuasca retreats. I was because that sounds dangerous and scary. And I go, where are you going? He's like, I'm going to Vegas. And I go, that sounds dangerous and scary to me. Well, you're going to be amongst the drunk and you might hit by a drunk driver. Drink too much and find yourself in a strange bed. That to me, if that's where the devil wants you. I agree. Because if you start looking at ayahuasca thing, even having some experience with it, I'm talking myself out of it until the minute that I drink the tea. Up until that very second that I drink the tea, I'm thinking of every excuse in the world to not drink it because I don't want to drink it. I don't want to do it. But if 10 years ago you said, hey, do you want to go to some take some shots of vodka and other things about, oh, yeah, that sounds like a great time. Of course. So then you have to, that's where the discernment comes in and that's where it becomes a heavier question. Well, why is it that I want to do things that we know are a sin, that we know we're damaging? And I want to. I'm excited for that. But I don't want to do this thing that is like demonic. With all of my being, I do not, if the, I do not want to ever drink ayahuasca for the rest of my life. I do not want to. That doesn't mean I won't, I don't want to. But why though? Why don't I want to? Well, it's because of the spiritual awakening or the spiritual reckoning that happens in the, the realizations, which fundamentally I think have made me more, again, I don't want to say a good person, but it certainly made me change my life and live differently. I have there been any downsides. You got to be comfortable with spiritual, spiritual confusion, which is one. So I have a certain, there's a certain like weight now that I, you ever hear their expression like the unbearable lightness of being, of course. And it's like very California, we'll think and everybody's all about lightening up, man, you know, chill out. You should like learn to relax. And I do an a friend of mine who found the medicine after I did. Remember we're hanging out. He came out to once the garden, he goes, Mike. He's like, yeah, what's up brother? What's up? He goes, I don't know how to say this. He goes, but since drinking ayahuasca and he's a Christian, he plays it as band, you know, in the, he plays guitar and a band at church every Sunday. He goes, so I don't know how to say I go, oh, you're like really spiritually confused, right? He goes, yes. I go, what do you think? I like know the answer. He's like, he was all I'm thinking about is like, am I doing the right thing? There's a, there's a confusion, but like in a good way, where I think that a lot of people think, well, I'm Christian, I'm saved. I accept Jesus as my Lord and Savior, once saved, always saved. And then I'll just sort of live my life and maybe go to church and try to be a good person or whatever. But you feel like I'm a Christian, like I've checked the box, whereas when you, with the medicine, I think it's the opposite, where you're just on any moment, you're just waging against whatever sin, the darkness, and you're just, I don't know, man, I, I believe, but I don't really know what's going to happen. I hope I'm doing the right things. And that level of spiritual confusion, I think, is not meant for everyone. So I don't think most people are, I think almost nobody should, should drink a high wasca. I think almost no one should. I think it's only something that if a person feels like they're going to do it anyway, in no amount of persuasion for me, it's going to work, then that's something to talk about. But I don't think people should, should dabble in this kind of stuff. Really. But if you're that and you're like looking at the bottom of a bottle of Jack Daniels, you got a gun next to you. We sketch you to Mexico. Let's get you to Peru. That's a whole different conversation. Have you ever known anyone who's been made worse by it? Worse is a hard way of putting it because people go through phases. So what happens with some people, unfortunately, is because you are getting quote unquote, like downloads from the universe, people do kind of chase that download of the universe, drag in versus like the hard work of living in life. So drinking a high wasca, once you kind of have a hang of it, it's never easy. But it's like you put on your space suit and you kind of know, you kind of know like, you drink it and you can feel it moving through you and your hands start to feel like you have carpal tunnel and right when you feel like you can sort of stretch out and you're like, oh yeah, I'm the medicines about to hit. And you can't direct the experience in an active way, but you sort of know what you're you're getting into. The first couple of times God help you. And what people will do then is rather than undertake the hard work of being alive. The hard work is here. The the realizations that I had change high live here. But the hard work is still like, I don't know, this is a great talk. I'm going to leave here. I'm like, I think that was a good talk. And then I'm going to be like wrapped up about some business thing, you know, or mad about something that somebody did to me or wondering about some, you know, uncertain thing. And then the, you know, the demons come in and kind of kind of silly joy. So the hard work is here and planted why are we here? That's again, goes to the mean life question. The like, take the garden of Eden story, for example, even if it's not real, why was it written? I mean, if it's not real, it was written as a metaphor, I suppose. Why though? To tell us about the nature of God and man. That's one. Yeah. But I think it's this is not our home. Yeah. Right. We just we know we don't we don't we don't belong here. Right. The garden of Eden is whatever this is, this is not like we were whether we were cast out of Eden because we listened to the serpent and we rejected God, whether that's literal, that's a metaphor. The the underlying feeling is that we are aliens on this planet. Yeah. However, we got here is it is a different question. New Testament says that a lot. And we're just like stuck in these like bodies that don't want to cooperate. And that want to lead us to the things that we on a spiritual level, maybe don't want to do. So so that the only real downside that I've seen from people who have done the plant medicine, although there are bad stories like they're like, after I had a really big night. And the guy said, you know, if you're thinking about leaving your wife, call me first. And I go, I love my wife more than ever. I was like, actually, but the opposite. He was, okay, he goes, but you had a big night. So what happens is a lot of times people have a big night. The facilitator or shaman guy isn't good or he's fly by night. And you're just like, oh, I realized I'm not living the way I'm supposed to. And then they just like up in their life. I know someone who did that. Yeah. Yeah. So that is a 100% risk. And that's why I'm always hesitant to talk about it because I don't want to seem like I'm glamorizing it. I want to, like when I talk about I wask, I wanted to sound kind of like foreboding. Yeah. Maybe you shouldn't do this. You probably shouldn't do this. You probably shouldn't. You might just blow up your whole life. You probably shouldn't do it to, to avoid people going in and saying, it's like, no, bro, you didn't, well, you were just bored. Right. You were just bored. And now you like destroyed your whole life. And the real, the real work is the homework. The homework is this what we got to do here. The downloads in the universe might feel great at the time where you might feel like you have all this insight and connection to a super intelligence, the superpower, but you're still back here on planet earth. So why don't you spend more time here in this body and plan earth and figuring out the best way to live your life has the experience made you more aware of like the spiritual realm around you day to day. I see everything that's spiritual realm. Yeah. Every, I see everything as being interests entities trying to act upon humanity and some kind of cosmic war that we don't really understand, but for whatever reason, humans are a very important part of it. Now my belief again is the Orthodox Christian part, which is like I accept the Orthodox Christianity story as the true one, but I'm just, you know, I'm trying not to be a, be up like I'm a priest because God, no, go to Josiah Trenum or someone if you want to priest, stay far away from me. Like that's people ask me religious questions. I'm like, get away from me and find Josiah Trenum. I feel the same way. So far away from please. No, no standing. Yeah, get away. So I'm just saying like my own belief is that God created man. We have bodies. The demons envy us because they can't be satiated. They don't have bodies. They hate us. When they attack us, that's their revenge against God. So the demons are constantly trying to use us. They can't be satiated. How in what way, what do you say that? Because they're floating around in a spirit. They've been denied bodies. So that they are roaming around like in a zombie kind of state. Always thought that one of the hallmarks of like hell on earth is the inability to be satiated satisfied full. Yes. Whether it's eating bad food or having the wrong kind of sex, it's like it's never enough or drugs or alcohol or insomnia. Yeah. Imagine. Yeah. So they're walking around an insomnia. They hate us. They hate humans and they want to hurt us and they more importantly want us to hurt each other to harm God. That's how they see us because the demons think they're going to win. Remember like if you're a Christian, we say, well, we know how the story ends. God wins in the end, right? The demons don't believe that though. We believe that. They don't believe it. So they believe that they can turn us against each other. They can get us to hurt each other. They can like a lot of demons enter people through traumatic experiences. Yes. They believe. They believe they're going to win. This is not and their minds, they are the winners in the end. They're going to win. So they want to use us to get us to harm each other because they see that as harming God more than anything else. So we're constantly being acted upon. So I'm constantly like prank for discernment, discernment, discernment, discernment. Am I being manipulated? Am I being led astray? Because I mean on a plaque political level, I've been played before by people by services, not knowing it. Oh, me too. And then I find out a lot. Yeah. Yeah. So I'm so like when people tell me things like, oh, here's the truth about the Venezuela raid or here's the truth about Israel or here's the truth about Palestine. It's like discernment. Am I just being played? Because everybody wants you, you know, especially your level. That's why it's telling telling you guys earlier, like I think the Lord above that I am not you, that I'm not Russell brand, that I am not tempoul, that I am not any of you guys. Because I'm so weak and pathetic. I couldn't imagine if I had your guys. Yes. You can say that. You can brush it off, but I have so many dogs and children that it's like, I don't even notice, but I make myself not notice, but no, but I think anyone who's in a position where other people listen to him is under particularly fierce attack constant. No, just imagine that the text like JD is. That's right. Imagineable. Just like unreal. Because even sometimes I'm like, yeah, you all see something you said, I don't know, I don't agree with that. And I mean, I'm not going to be another guy, Texan talker, nagging him about please too, nagging him about something. But no, so there is the risk that as you've seen happen, a person is kind of an ayahuasca to a risk, they go in, they go, oh, my whole life has been alive. And therefore I'm just going to like blow up my whole life. Don't do that. Like, and if the person you're with is not, if the shaman or whatever the facilitator is not telling you like, don't do that, then then you're on the wrong place. But other, but other than that and people getting caught in the, the trap of downloads, I've seen like the biggest baddest men on the planet that just want to like hug their kids. And they went from PTSD and staring off into the void and drinking and fighting with their wives and riding motorcycles too fast, just for a rush. And because frankly, like maybe they, maybe it is a death wish. Of course it is. Right. And then you take away responsibility because you go, oh, I just got to crash. I didn't kill myself. Like some pussy, you know, I just got to rack. But really, they're trying to kill themselves and just become like, it's actually pretty, it's actually changed my view on a lot of this like real men don't cry and you see all this bravado. I'm like, dude, I've cried with the delt before as a guy. I've cried with the CO Team 6 guy. You are not more whatever your definition of manly is. You are like not more, if you ever see like Marcus Capone is like this. You are not more manly than Marcus Capone or DJ Shipley or any of these other guys. That's like for sure. So there. So at the very least I do hope it. I guess I get, I don't want people to listen to this go to I waskas and immense. That would be immensely damaging for somebody to do that based on what I'm saying to me. I don't want them to do it. That wouldn't be a nice thing to do to me. But I do hope that people can say, yeah, it was a big deal. Like I'm by myself in a room and I'm praying and I cry. Why am I holding that? Who cares? Right. And then find that find that part. Well, ego is the reason. I think you're exactly right. So last question, we were in a period of, we're in a huge change period, of course. And one of the qualities of it is chaos. It's just a chaotic moment. It's hard to understand, especially if you're 50 and you've been watching this stuff your whole life. It's like all of a sudden this weren't this is a departure. How much of that chaos is like spiritual? It always has been. I mean, you remember that song, sympathy for devil rolling stone. Of course. What if that's not assault? What if that's real? Right. What is real? Right. So in my view, the the the the the the jack of the terror, the Bolshevik revolution, the Spanish Civil War, what's happening in Ukraine? Yeah. It's all the same. It's all part of the same strain. So I think that we because again, you're born into a certain period of time and then we tend to overweight the time that we're in and we see it maybe in a different color than it should be. We're not like your son isn't getting drafted in the Vietnam War. We're not getting drafted in the World War II. We're not getting drafted in the World War I. I think that in terms of even though it's kind of a lamester Stephen Pinker is like better angels, I think we were on the trend to towards a better world than we've seen that that's been upended. But that we're still in a good time. And what we do want to have is our as our nor Star is like preserving a order, knowing that like we're going to have conflict. But if we can find some kind of allyship or alliance and that means everybody has to pull their own weight, then we shouldn't give into the ranker of the end fighting. And I I used to be an end fighter and like in fighting a lot. And I've cut down on that by at least half. That's a good news resolution. Mike Sternovich that didn't go in the direction I anticipated was much better and more interesting and deeper. Thank you. Thank you my pleasure.