Witness with Amanda Dobbins

If we'd podcasted last night, I'd have to stay, or you'd have to leave. That is the line of the movie for me. It's maybe a low energy way to start the podcast. It's the line of the movie. It's the tagline. You should have just done the tagline. But let me do the tagline now as an alternate. I just really want to do that line. Go ahead. Do it. Harrison Ford is John Book, period. That's the biggest font. Exactly. Okay. Yeah. And then right down underneath it, almost like small print on the back of a fucking aspirin bottle. A big city cop, a small country boy. They have nothing in common, but a podcast. Exactly. That's why it's perfect. Do you think putting Harrison Ford is John Book that big was them being like, we need to fucking Indiana Jones this thing. We need to sell. It's a good question. She's playing another iconic character. Can we gabbo them into thinking, I'm supposed to know who John Book is. I would like to talk about the name John Book. It's one of the great names. It's an incredible name, so maybe they're just so proud of the name. Yeah. Go ahead, man. It does feel like they picked the name John Book for that, like, franchise ability, right? The Indiana Jones of it all. It's Mr. Book or just Book, you know, as Samuel calls him throughout the thing. So I do, yes, I think that it's sort of like a big, bold mad libs attempt, right? You know, we have Harrison Ford, we have John Book. Yeah. A name you know, a name you're going to know. Yeah. And the guy had had a track record at this point of already creating two fucking beyond iconic franchise characters. Right. What were you going to say, David? I'd like to know. I'd love to, you know, sit in on whatever meeting this was back when, because it's like, yeah, how do you automatically sell this? Right. You know, like, it's not, this is not, oh, we know what to do. It's about an Amish boy who witnesses a crime at a train station. And then of course the cop has to hide it. You know, like, you can't do that. Giant? Right. You can't, you can't set that up in a poster. Beautiful painting of Harrison Ford's face. And if you look closely, you're like, is that an Amish boy? But even the tagline. It's just a little, yeah, it looks like Children of the Corn. Like, if I just look at the boy. But it's in darkness. So it's like, it's a little abstract. I think you, look, he had just been to the Temple of Doom. He had, yes. And before that, he had returned with the Jedi. He had run with the blades. He'd raided the Lost Ark. Right. So like, it's one of those things where it's like, this is Harrison Ford. Right. And he's playing another guy. Exactly. And I guess that really is just the overriding thing of like, you like it. Yes. When Harrison Ford plays a person with a name. I just think that Blade Runner had bombed. Yeah, Blade Runner had bombed. The others had not. Right. And Indiana Jones is sold on. Adventure has a name, right? Right. Indiana Jones. That if they're trying to do the like, OK, what worked, what didn't thing? They were like, will people go see a Harrison Ford movie if they feel like we're introducing him to his next guy? I think that's. Yes, I think you're totally right. But you can't enumerate what the guy does because it milks a cow, you know, like fixes a car. Dances. Dance. Sam Cooke. Yeah. We'll talk about it. There's no way to explain it. And even the poster is saying like, City Cop Country Boy. Right. Right. Which is that's that's good. It's not a lie. No, I would hate for them to lie. But if you were to ask anyone now to describe witness, you'd be like the Amish movie. Sure. Of course. Bar. No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, you'd be Sam Cooke and the bar. No, what here's what witnesses, if you said the Amish people would be like the witness people that you're like for 20 years. It defines them. I think at this point, that's not true anymore. Yeah. But I think in the 80s and 90s, you're the Amish oath from witness. Yes. The guys from witness. Right. This movie almost had like a Rain Man autism effect. If you live in Pennsylvania, you're not like that. But if you live in Switzerland, right, you're like, yeah, I know the Amish. From witness. From witness. They might well be made up to me. Like maybe where they made up for that movie. Is that real thing or not? I don't even know. Who knows? No one knows. I don't. I'll be astonished if JJ has a definitive answer. If in his research, he found out for certain whether or not the Amish exists. It's an unanswerable question. We pay a researcher. There's just beyond his ability this week. You ever been to Amish country? I haven't. You're married to a Pennsylvania. So I have been to 30th Street Station, which is where the inciting incident. And I am, I'm here in New York with you guys, which is so lovely. And I've been sitting with my sister-in-law, Ruthie, also a native Philadelphia, and she was telling me both she and Zach, my husband said, yes, this movie was shown to us as a Philadelphia movie. Wow. It is. We were, we were sat down at a young age and we were like Philadelphia. My friend who lives in Philadelphia texted her right away and watching a Philly movie, baby. And yes, it's like only 20 minutes worth. Sure. But then what Ruthie told me that my husband had not told me and maybe doesn't recall is that my husband was then terrified to go to the bathroom at the 30th Street Station. That makes perfect sense. For many years. Does the bathroom look like that or is it a set? Like, does it? I mean, I assume now it does not have wooden saloon. Well, I actually haven't been in the men's bathroom at 30th Street Station. Do you do your research next time you come to my podcast? I honestly don't know if I've been in the women's bathroom either, but. I think JJ now, you know, I, I, I do think that it's on the outside. You know, it looks the same and that's, that's enough for him to say, I don't want to do it. This also ties into the fact that I, I believe my father-in-law was showing them movies a little bit sooner than perhaps they were emotionally ready, which is like what we did in the eighties. Right. Look, I don't know. You're a mother, you're a parent. Yeah. Kids. I mean, you're constantly like, is this the moment for this or are we not ready for this? Not really. I'm just like, here is the first hour of Top Gun Maverick because you like airplanes. Um, and, and also I have found that there's my older son is three and a half now. But for a while he didn't understand the concept of scary. No, they don't know until for a while. Right. He didn't know to be scared and he wasn't engaging with the emotional stuff. And then that, that appears late. Yes. So there was like a lot of stuff at age two and a half that he could be into. And now. And now he's like, I can tell that everyone is like, is very tense and, and I don't like this. Well, it's like that thing when a kid falls and they can't decide whether or not to cry until. Totally. Right. Totally. And you go, you're okay. You're okay. Yeah. And they go, okay. But also Halloween decorations. He's still like everything that's supposed to be gory and gross. He just totals right up and it's like, Hey, look at these lights. He likes the design. You know, like, because he doesn't know that it's supposed to be grown. He has a, it's, it's learned behavior, I guess. My, my, uh, 10 year old little cousin, uh, who I take to movies a lot. Uh, his dad, when I was growing up, was the one who took me to movies I shouldn't see and certainly guns and roses albums and whatever. Awesome. And I dropped him off after a movie and he and, uh, his wife, we're not arguing, but we're like, we want your opinion on this because we've been going back and forth. And for years, it had been like, Hey, don't show George this. He might be too young. Like I was like very respectful, but they seem very cautious about what was being fed to him. And they were like, am I crazy in thinking that in our side of the family, the tradition is everyone sees everything too young. And I was like a little bit of it. There were certainly things my parents banned, but then like already comedies, this and that. And he was like, and none of us turned out fucked up. Right. And I'm like, I don't know, we can debate this. And then between that conversation and the next time I saw George, he had seen every R rated movie on the planet. Well, that's how we did it in our generation. Right. He seems to be doing well. Even the nothing's wrong. Don't don't make that face, David. You're not hanging out with George. He's we're all fucked up is all I want to say fucked up. Of course. I'm exactly. We have incredible taste. We do. You know, we're perfect. And like hard casters and now there was either even, even the stuff for kids in the eighties, very, really weird. That's the real problem. Is that the problem? Or is that it? That was the, that was the tenor. Yeah. Yes, exactly. Children's entertainment. And now everything is for eight year olds, whether you're three, eight or forty two. It's interesting. I saw Tron. Which I'm not yet. Congratulations. I know. And of course, this is posting six months after. Sure. But you know, that's a film for teenagers. I mean, and for grown important mature men like me, but mostly for teenagers. And it has imagery in it of like people kind of disintegrating because they're digital creatures. But you know, all the Tron shit. D-resing. Yeah. That like I was like, objectively, this is quite nightmarish. This is like a person crumbling into ash sort of, right? That's also like every ambly movie we had. And then I was like, I guess that's just sort of baked into, right, like action kids adventure shit. It's also, yes. But now like the tech is so good that it's like, this is like, I just watched Jody Turner Smith's beautiful person. Wow. They're always, they de-res like four billion. Everyone in that movie is de-resing and re-resing and re-resing. It's just funny that you let come in the realization, I guess Tron areas is ostensibly for teenagers, right? Three times in a row. The real question with Tron. Decades. Tron X is always like, this is for anybody. This is for teenagers. And every time teenagers bat it the fuck down. And then like 20 years later, they're like, OK, I think we've identified who it's actually for teenagers. What's our podcast? Our podcast is blank check with Griffin and David. I'm Griffin. And David. And who's our guest? Well, first, what's the podcast about? Wait, this podcast goes. Yeah. Yeah. It's a podcast about filmographies, director to a massive success early on in their careers and are given a series of blank checks to make whatever crazy passion projects they want. Sometimes those checks clear and sometimes they bounce. Baby. Yes. Here's a man who had a arc one, act one success. And then this is his turning point into act two. Well, this is his Hollywood. That's what I'm saying. This is his leap to Hollywood. Nothing bounced yet, but it was just. Not at all. Right. The credit was mounting in Australia. Yes. And he makes the leap now and does it with flying colors. Yes. We're talking about Peter Weir. We are. We are. It's a mini series called Podnik at Hanging Cast. That's right. Because David thinks that Podnik is the funniest thing anyone's ever said. I think Podnik is really funny. I want to give. Podnik is funny. I want to give credit to JJ who pitched Podnik at Hanging Cast. And is fired. Now I wanted to do Podster and cast Mander, the pod side of the cast. Because I was like, this is a rare opportunity to get two pods and two casts into one title. It didn't move me. And I was like, and I feel like being a podcaster and more of a visual than an audio learner. So I was like really hanging on there. Visual is going to be tough. Visual is going to be tough. Yeah. Our guest today. Return to the show. Yeah. For only the second time. And look, this is on me. I should never look at the Reddit. But I happened to check last night. Why did you look at the Reddit? I don't want to know. I mean, I guess you've been blowing in the wrong direction. Uh huh. And the Reddit thread was how has Amanda Dobbins only been on once and Sean Fentasy has been on three times. All caps you slash Travis Bickle. Well, and I didn't win, but I just want to be your defense. I think you guys, you do like to do it in person, which I like as well. Sean has been here more. I was on parental leave for a while. Exactly. You had child. Yeah. I'm back in the mix. I think I was pregnant for Thomas Crown affair and not telling anyone. So that's hard to get pregnant. Wait, so you were lying to me? I think it was, it was a sin of omission. Thank you so much. Yes. So, you know, and listen, our, our, our society is structured, you know, and equally when it comes to, to, to women having it all and having access to being in person for podcast studios. 33.3% of the podcast appearances that men get. It's true, but I'm, I'm back. You're back. I'm done. Amanda Dobbins. Not going to happen again. You done. I am out. Well, you T. No, this is what I want to talk about. Having children, not a blind check. Okay. No, no, no, no, no. This is the beginning. This like, you know, a man's and I are just connecting on this moment because it is. I'm just declaring it in many places as possible. No, no, no, much like Peter Weir. Yeah. That was my Australian new wave face. And it's so. I am Hollywood baby. Right now. Harrison Ford is John Book. Yes. Is me. Harrison Ford is John Book. No, here's the other part of it. Yeah. This, now your second appearance. Yeah. I feel like these are two of the three movies I hear you cite the most as feeling like the most impactful on your development as like a movie fan and a movie watcher. Absolutely. It has now created a standard, which isn't to say we can't have you on for something else. But it feels like in both of these cases. Oh, that's true. Right. Thomas kind of went this formative. Right. We, we, we've been locked on the director and I say to David Dobbins and we just text you and you immediately take back all caps. Absolutely. It was just an obvious slam dunk. So these are also films that like were successful. Yes. At the time, but are not canonized. They're a little forgotten in the, in the, in the general letter box film nerd. Yes. I guess that's a good way to put it. But they were, they were important to my cinematic development. And I've got a whole lot more of those. Have you guys done run Howard yet? No. No, Apollo 13. I like just book it right now. The other one I was John Book it. The other one I was going to say, I feel like in that trilogy is working girl. I feel like working girl witness like a three to five thousand. Yes. Or three. I always hear. And I have one more for you. Okay. Even though I'm pretty sure. Well, first of all, like, have you done Rob Reiner? Oh, okay. Well, here's the whole issue with Rob Reiner. I know it falls off a cliff. It falls off a cliff. But that's fine. We could do pre-cliff Reiner. We would. This is sort of the whole. First of all, I hosted what I believe was my 10th, maybe 11th birthday party at the movie theater to see North. So. Wow. But that's not my pick. My movie that is a stealth. Which is. Witness sequel. Sure. But it's also. But it's off the cliff. Yes. But it's the cliff. Right. Sure. I mean, like. But but American. Made air. Oh, you know, it's like is another one. American president is after North, I believe, in his filmography. And so that's when he pulls the parachute and it deploys. Yeah. Yeah. American president. And he's like, I still got it. The parachute starts to catch on fire. The parachute works. He just happens to land inside of a volcano. Yeah. Yeah. American president, I know is a big one for you. I would love to do that. But so, you know, there is a whole. There's there are others. Right. There's others. It just feels like we've gotten two huge ones. But, you know, in Apollo 13, American president and Thomas Crown affair, that's and you're we're similar ages. Like that's you're, you know, becoming like a teenager. Like these are movies from the mid 90s that we watched. Same for me. Witnesses from the 80s. Yeah. And witness, maybe for you, it was for me, was a home video. Oh, absolutely. I think you're kind of ready for this movie because this is like a, you know, you know, there's in a perfect world, this would be rated, I guess, like, well, in the sort of the British rating, like this is kind of a rated 15 movie, right? Where it's like, it's got a little violence. Yeah. Yeah. It's got a one pair of tits. It has a hint of nudity. It's got single pair of tits. But like by and large, it's not too intense and it's, it's, it's adult, but it's sort of like, you know, you can engage with it as a teenager. It also falls into the category of if you're interested in watching this, you're old enough to watch this, right? Right. Like, you know, like, if you're, hey, this movie has zero lasers and you're like, yeah, well, I don't know. You're going to have to really lock in to get to the boobs and the boobs are going to make you a little emotionally confused. Right. Yeah. And right. It's a movie about no, no violence. Oh, is it about how the Amish are super weird? No, it's engaging with them as a community in a mature way. It is the mildest kind of culture shock comedy. Right. In, in how like, gentlest comedy. Definitely it is underplayed. Yeah. I mean, there is one stabbing at the beginning or like throat slashing, I guess. It's a throat slashing. There's a shootout at the end. Like, you know, there is. Someone drowns in corn. Dramatic corn. If you showed this to a 10 year old, it would go over the head. As, you know, I live with two young men who are. So there's, there's that aspect of it. Maybe I should just show them the barn seat on YouTube. They might like it. I mean, the barn raising is one of those things where you're like, this is real. Like, you know, when you're a young person, right? Yeah, it's still. I mean, I, well, so also I grew up speaking of the 80s in like the first wave American girl doll situations. And so I had a Kirsten. Okay. And she's from like Minnesota. Yeah. She is, she's Midwestern and it's like, but she's like a Scandinavian, uh, immigrants, Swedish girl from 1845. And, and like, and they came with a set of books, you know, and there was one that was like, how did this person, how is this person, the introductory one? There's like a birthday one, a Christmas one. I'm sure I'm like a school one, probably. Yeah. Um, and like, and the, anyway, the, like a party one, I don't know. There was one about a barn raising. And they like had a barn raising and then like a party in the barn. And this, so witness was like really important to me in terms of visually realizing this event that I had only read about in the context. So the doll predates. Of the, the original six box set. Yes. Kirsten American girl doll series. Talk about how messy the American girl doll canon has gotten. I can't keep up. Because it used to be tight. It's not the normies can't find an entry point. You gotta do homework just to pick up one doll. And there's like a 2000s one, what she likes, Chumbawamba. Like what is this? But also apparently they just introduced that Samantha, another of the original. And listen, I, you know, the original three, there was, it, it was a pretty singular demographic, you know, which was, you know, little white lady, white ladies with means. So it's, it's good that they expanded the bounds. Right. But apparently Samantha, one of the originals now has a great granddaughter. Who you can buy. Yeah. They're like trying to do. Let's not do this. I don't know. Samantha doll isn't like 80 now, right? You're like dealing with Samantha. No, she's dead. She's frozen in time. But that's what I'm saying. The idea of like dealing with two child dolls in different temporalities, it's if it's fucking frequency. You know what I'm just, I, this is how disease my brain is. But just right now I was thinking about like. Welcome to Blank Track. Yeah. The Poshmark market for American girls, all stuff must be like Valhalla. For like, I must be the most incredible thing because I had that catalog. I was just thinking about Samantha's tea set and the little like iced cupcakes or glazes or like maybe it's ice cream because her thing is she makes ice cream. You know, they make dolls for the dolls. I'm well aware. I, it's a, it's a. Is your daughter now getting into it? Not yet, but I mean, those are on cold storage. Like those are awaiting her because you know, my wife, I think I had a couple and then her sister had a couple. Yeah. This is a family of girls and they're all just, you know, locked away. My daughter's still, I think too young to fully engage with them. Totally. And she's obviously also just all the way in on Spider-Man and mostly cares about what Green Goblin is up to, not what King Kidridge was up to. That is healthier, you know? I guess so. But they're coming. Yeah. They're coming. And then maybe one day I'll be on Poshmark. But the T-set was like little wicker chairs and it had all the accoutrements. It was so beautiful. And I'm just like, I, I, their resale market must be amazing. Like I think I'm feeling right now the way that Sean feels when talking about physical media. I'm just like, I can't imagine the possibilities. My question for you is, do you have yours? Are they in a box? And like now that you had two sons, not to be binary, is it possible, right? That these will not. I would absolutely be at home if they wanted to. My mom, bless her, did her downsizing on her own a couple of years ago. And she didn't, first of all, she gave away all my babysitters clubs like 15 years ago. And I had like a full set. I mean, I wasn't like, you know, I wasn't up to date, but it was originals like one through one, 25, like first edition. Like I was on that shit. That's tough. And then we, she didn't check in about the American Girl dolls. So I don't know about that. We do the boys do have my cabbage patch, Clifton. Sure. Yeah. Yeah. So that's because I think my mom thought that was a little more gender neutral. So then you're getting into generational. Then you're dealing with the grandparents' opinions on what dolls should be played by what children. Just to clarify, when your mom downsized, did you move into leisure land? Yeah. You said a downsizing reference. Yeah. Yeah. David, because we're coming up on Halloween, I just have one question. Are you going to allow your daughter to the throw pumpkins? Oh, because she's in the goblin. Oh, yeah. Well, but she's like, and I don't say we should light them on fire. But she might be confused. She might be confused if she sees a little pumpkin. Yeah. Well, there's a lot of little pumpkins around. She loves little pumpkins and every. Yeah, you know, also. I'll be. Yeah. But she knows of Green Goblin again is like a sort of gentle mischief maker. Not a promiscid maniac that he is when he's going to kill a girl. I don't think she's going to like meeting Willem Dafoe. Like whenever that day comes for her, when she's like nine years old. You always think your kid's not going to like meeting Willem Dafoe. And yet when you get there, it's just like. This to me seems like the only downside of the Spidey and his amazing friends that like later when I'm like, so here's Green Goblin. She's like, that's not my Green Goblin. He is not ruining Mother's Day. Like he is. Do you know about the show, Amanda? I do. Are your sons infected with this? No, they don't. So what happened is, so there are my children go to a Montessori school. So no characters allowed at school. No. Your kid can't show up with like a Snoopy stuff here. No, no branding. Yeah. So that has sort of like delayed things a little, but he did come home the other day and a couple of weeks ago and he was like, dad, I want to watch Batman. Sure. And my husband instinctively was like, I don't know what that is. And he's like, I've never heard of him. And then my three. Is that protocol for everything basically? Was like, dad, it's a beautiful film. I want to see it. And my dad and Zach was like, well, we don't have that here. You know, I guess like, I don't know. Maybe I'll look into it, but we can't watch it right now. And for now, that was acceptable to him. Yeah. But he does also think Tom Cruise is coming to his birthday party. So I don't really know. Like from, like he thinks Maverick will show up. No, no, no, because now he's really into like parachutes and stuff. So now I like show him Tom. I show him the making of feature. Right. But here's the thing, because he's so young and he's the featureettes are much better because they show Tom Cruise practicing. Yeah. And then they show like all the safety measures. And it is every time right before they go to the final stunt, he whispers to me, I'm going to like this, right? And I'm like, you will like it because he can do it. And you know, I keep saying like, look how safe he is, look how they're practicing. But so no, he now understands Tom Cruise as Tom Cruise. And so he does think he's coming to his birthday party. I don't know what to do about that. Sure. But we haven't gotten to Spidey and friends yet. Sure, they'll, you know, they'll be there for you whenever you need because they're heroes. I've turned this out to Sam's. I don't think we've said this on Mike, but I'm really curious if there's going to be a thing 15 years from now or the entire generation who grew up on the show. Yeah. Because basically everyone I know with a kid under eight is like, my life is infected with Spidey and his amazing friends. If the movies are going to have to adjust to that canon, right? In the way that David is joking. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Right where they're like, well, my version of Spider-Man is constantly vexed by Green Goblin stealing his lunch. OK. And I need to see that in the movies. I've been waiting my entire life to see it in live action. I mean, they're tiptoeing that way. It's all going to happen. What happened? Like people die in the in the last one. That's sad. Yeah, rip. Yeah. Marissa, tell me blown into a wall. I was really sad about that. And she looked so good. She looked so good. Like she was honestly killed for the crime of hotness. That may was just too hot. Well, culture came. Look, I will say this, just connect threads here, right? Yeah, Instagram threads. Yeah, Ben Hosley and I, producer Ben. We're on Daily Zeitgeist podcast. Yeah. Is that an LA or a New York podcast? LA podcast. OK, OK. And Jack asked us, he was sort of speed rounding, like movie conversation, talking points that he was like, I listen to your show and I want to have these discussions with you. And he was like the whole thing of like movies becoming sexless, right? Sure. And like what is perpetuating this? Is this a younger generation that is skittish about it? Is it about the studios? Is it about movies translating overseas or whatever? We litigated this whole thing, right? Yeah. The thing I really locked into was, I think what is less discussed isn't like in the 80s, Michael Douglas used to fuck everyone against a wall and now there's no sex in anything. What I feel like is under discussed is the witness thing of like every movie used to just have this level of sexual tension in it. Oh, I thought you were going to say every movie used to have just like one pair of tits. And I like wasn't a big deal. I think that was part of it. I mean, look, some still have nudity. Yeah. But like not in the. But it's if they do, it's like a, ooh, like come see so and so, you know, and come see someone's dick now because the men will also be full frontal. There are many more dicks. Yeah. I can't deny that. It's more common to see a dick. But this is sort of just like a European like, oh, OK, well, like there they are. I think there were some of that. It's the human body. There were also many movies in the 80s and 90s that were built entirely on look at how many tits you're going to see and they were not presented in the European way. But I do I kept while watching this movie again last night, thinking about the Marvel like everyone is beautiful and nobody fucks thing. Yeah. Where you're like, this is the exact inverse of that in that like here you have. I feel like you've said it many times. I'm inclined to agree. Harrison Ford, the best he has ever looked on screen. Well, it's this and Working Girl, which you're back to talk about it. They are. So this is like his ideal phase of life. Yes, I would agree. I mean, how old would he have been? He would have been like, he's like 40. He's like 43. She got a little bit of that. 43. No, no, no. And hey, that's fine. All power to him. But this, I feel like even more so than Working Girl, because Working Girl has the like a movie sheen on it. Uh huh. Like for how much he is genetically blessed and was taking great care of himself. Harrison Ford does look like a real person in this movie. Oh, 100 percent. It is that amazing thing where you can see someone who has like movie star fucking like, you know, glow. And yet the movie doesn't make them like perfectly groomed and hairless. Yeah, but let me let me. And whoreless. What I got to stop you here. It's not just what you're talking about. This is the first time he plays a guy in today in the in the world in a movie. Basically, I mean, excluding, you know, as a leading man, as a little movies that he did early on, but like since he has become a star and done like, you know, the run of like Star Wars, apocalypse now, briefly, obviously Frisco kid, Empress Rexback Raiders, Blade Runner, Return of the Jedi, Temple of the Day. Yeah, but that's, that's, you know, but like, no, I'm saying like this is like Harrison Ford is in our world. Yeah. Right. Yeah. Working Girl is 88. I forgot. I always think it's 86. So that's a little later. This is 84. Is 85. Wow. 85. Wow. But like this is the first time that we have seen him wearing regular clothes. Yeah. Yeah. Drinking a cup. Well, sort of hot Joe. Hot Joe. Well, he does, of course, go plain. Right. He goes plain mode. Plain mode. Sure. Plain. The cut of those pants is very contemporary, though, in a funny way. It is true. It is very late millennial, except he is wearing socks. But yes, the the high cut and then obviously the crop, you know, sure. It's a main goal. I was just watching all the special features on not to tempt you, but this lovely premium witness. I know. Tracy Letts gave out two copies and neither was to me. I texted him after the. I mean, you weren't even present for that Virginia V convention. You know, I'm with. I'm just saying this is a good object. This doesn't look like a game stop. This is a good object. It I mean, that's true. You hear the knock of it? Not plastic. So one thing as you're sitting there, I'm in the same room with you as you. A lot of things on my desk. There is like we've gotten past the plastic. That yeah, that's not plastic. And you guys talk a lot about steel books. Yeah, the metal one. We love the steel books. Yeah, but the the symmetry of it, it still just is a box, you know, and it's just like they're like rows of boxes, you know, and it all just kind of looks like boxes. So that's another thing that you want to form factor. That's that's my feedback. I know this is Sean's case, but when you have something like this, Sean's argument, I should say, rather for this type of case. Yes. It's like a hardback slip, right? Hardback slip is that then it starts to look more like a book. But sure, I'm not buying that. John book. But but there's still all like it's it's the aesthetics of when they're lined up. Interesting. OK, they're all like flat and the edges are rounded and they just, you know, you just like that. Yeah, I don't. I think that you need more texture. You need more variety for it to look. It starts to look a little. It looks flat. I agree. And where's the steel? I true. I also I mean, I keep hearing about the steel books. Don't know if I've ever seen one IRL. I see no shine. I see no texture. I see no metal. Yeah. But it's like think about a bookcase where, you know, OK, oh, we're holding a steel book. OK, now I'm holding a steel book. Oh, it's a master and commander steel book. OK, so. I what if it was wearing a hat? Ben, I would agree with you that first of all, I don't know how to open this. But it's a little tug there. Yeah, it might be a little tight in that center. This isn't like the steel that built the American Railroads, you know, it's a steel. No one. We open it up as plastic guts. You ain't right. You can't drive a train down them discs. Sure. It's true. How about I just I think if it was American Railroad steel, everyone's shelves would be collapsing all the time. But like think about a bookcase that looks good to you. Yes. You know, uh-huh. It is almost never all of the same size, binding color, all like all in a row. Like the sets look weird and you can tell when someone does not have a book collection and they have a large bookcase and they buy one of like the old gaudy sets and you're just like, oh, that looks kind of like fake and unused. I love that we're having this conversation. There's like a symmetry to what's going on with the display of physical media is that I find aesthetically offensive. Now, let me say this, Amanda. Yes. Your podcast co-host, Sean Fennison. Yes. The king of the symmetrical stack, right? Yeah. The photos are everything has to be lined up perfectly, right? Yeah. Not on the shelves, but when he's posting like, do in my Spike Lee research. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Perfect stack. Yeah. A lot of physical media collectors like ourselves want the perfect symmetry on the shelf. They want everything the same. And in fact, it will drive them crazy if a movie is released in a different form factor that's not going to line up. I do know that. And I don't feel this way. I'm with you where I like, I wouldn't say a messy shelf, but I like the variety. I like the idea of like peaks and valleys and different shapes and and like criteria will do this sometimes. Well, they'll be like, we tried something different with the packaging and people, people go ballistic. They put out train spotting in a like a package that they were like, this is a reference to 90s like British promotional CDs, and it was thinner and taller. Yeah. And people lost their fucking minds. And I'm like, good, give it to me. Make it all look different. But I do think that some of it just people have different tastes and people have different aesthetics and Sean is. Yeah. Bless him. A neat freak and a quote unquote minimalist. And his house is clean lines. I was about to say, right, like he doesn't like things out and I live in a sea of books. And if I could have 18 different prints and patterns in one room, you know, like, this is how I look like embrace the chaos. I would like the Marie Antoinette set designer to come to my house next, you know. So so it's it is it is purely at some point like like I prefer this color to this color. I prefer this look to this look. But it's the I find the symmetry unnerving. And it does not suit me. I don't. It freaks me out. Look at this big chunky picnic and hanging rock. Look at this. No plastic here. You know, I'm so. I'm going to open the. I got the fucking. I got the novel in here. The book is in the set. I'm sorry. I am here as a chaos monster. I'm not helping you. You know, I'm not. Be a chaos monster, please. Do you. I didn't even. Kind of guess we have sometimes. I know, but I just. You're no monster. You know, Sean usually keeps me. Like I I try sometimes to stay on the tracks, but here I'm just like, let's talk. We're pulling the rip. Let's talk about your books. That's why we like to be in person. Yeah. David. Yes, this episode is brought to you by. Mo. Movie. Oh, the global film company, the champions great cinema. Oh, the global film company, the champions great. Oh, the global film. Iconic directors emerging our tours. Always something new to discover movies. Films are hand selected. You can explore the best of cinema. That's all I have to say. No, they have a new movie that's streaming on the U.S. It's father, mother, sister, brother. It's the Jim Darmish movie from last year, the one, the Golden Lion. This is a. Venice that regretfully regret for her regretfully. You and I both didn't get chance to catch up with, but now I will be able to enjoy this funny, tender and gently moving exploration of the universal intricacies of family dynamics. Tom Waits, Adam Driver, my ambialic, Charlotte Rampling. Why are you listening to Blanchett, Vicky Creeps? All the people who were invited to Ben's birthday party. It's a triptych, right? There's a New Jersey section, a Dublin section, a Paris section. Obviously, Jarmusch has done some such storytelling before night on earth and such coffee and cigarettes, Griffin. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Okay. It's it's about the relationships between adult children. They're somewhat distant parent or parents and each other. I simply cannot relate. I know, right? Having a complicated relationship with your parents. So you can watch that and you can watch all the other great stuff they've got at MUBI to stream the best of cinema. You can try MUBI free for 30 days at MUBI.com slash blank check. That's MUBI.com slash blank check for a whole month of great cinema for free. I want to tell you guys something you might not know. Peter Weir is from Australia. Did you guys know that? What? Peter Weir grew up in Australia, is Australian, made many Australian films. The hat trick. But he did like American movies and was kind of raised on them. How can you not, right? Hollywood, it's the move of the world. And so pretty quickly in his career, he says around when he made The Last Wave, which is his third film, he starts kind of getting an eye on. He's like, you know, this town is big enough. Like, you know, he's starting to get a little sick of the sort of scale of Australian projects, right, the extent to which. I just think especially in the 80s, it's not the start of, but there's a real surge in if someone makes an interesting film in a foreign country that crosses over a little bit, time to bring them over to Hollywood and slot them into the machine. You know, I think there's a little bit less of everyone works in their own country and more of eventually we're getting you over here. The Thornbirds, the 1980 film, The Thornbirds, you guys know this film based on a... This film? No, it was this whole thing. It was really serious. It was really serious. Based on the Australian novel by Colleen McCullough. Because that was Richard Chamberlain as well? Well, it's being set up initially as a film that was going to be directed by Herbert Ross and star Robert Redford, rest in peace. And Herbert Ross was, I think, getting old and so he was being pushed aside and they were like, maybe you can do this, you're Australian, right? You'll get, it's set in the outback, like you'll get it. And he circled it but wasn't that interested. So he backed off and eventually that got shunted to miniseries as, right, in 1983 is when it came out. With his recent leading man. Right. From the last wave. And instead, Weir does two more Australian films. He does Gallipoli and he does Year of Living Dangerously, which is an Australian production but MGM has a little bit of money in it. And so it's sort of like half a step into Hollywood. And Mel Gibson is like, not quite a Hollywood star yet, but is about to be. I was going to say. It's all inching. It is interesting that Mel Gibson kind of functions as that turnkey for both George Miller and Peter Weir where they had worked with him before and he was crossing over and it was like, if you can get Mel again, you get to make a movie that's like half Hollywood. Now, moving on from him for a second back to witness. This was originally called called home, which is what the Amish refer to dying as being called home. Sure. It's a good title when you have that explained to you on its face. It is great. It's quite a bad title. It's not a great title. Romance novelist Pamela Wallace and her husband, Earl W. Wallace, who is a guy who worked on the TV show, Gunsmoke for a long time had rented a home in Amish country. They'd kind of gotten interested in the Amish and they start working on a screenplay that would be about an Amish woman falling for a big city guy. Okay. Makes sense. They were Earl Wallace brings in a guy called William Kelly who also worked on Gunsmoke. That movie was going to be called not working girl. I was trying to see if I could draft a better wording of it in my head and I just gave up and. You know, yeah. Knocked it out there. That guy had worked on like Westerns and stuff. How the West was won. He has a credit on this screenplay ends up in the hands of a producer called Edward Feldman in 1983. It's like 180 pages. It's very heavy on like Amish life. Right. It's very invested in all of that. But they're nonetheless interested and he's the options. Yeah. Yeah. He options it. He has a first look deal at Fox at the time and the head of Fox at the time, Joe Wysand takes a look at it and says, we don't do rural movies, which is quite a line. Yeah. You're always hearing about exact same things like that. Yeah. We don't do rural. What does that mean? We can't go leave the city like ever. Like what are you talking about? I mean, as he puts it, he read the script. He was like, this concept is great. It's really overwritten and he makes a deal with them where he's going to pay the writer's $25,000 to have a one year option and get a rewrite out of them. Right. And that he doesn't have to pay them the remaining $225,000 unless it actually gets green lit. And so he runs downstairs and he's like, I'm excited. I just made a great deal. Look at how great of a deal maker I made. And they were like, what the fuck is this rural trash? So they do the rewrite. He brings it back to Fox. He gets the same answer. We don't do rural pictures. He sends the script to Harrison Ford's agent on a Thursday by Monday. Ford was on board and he was like, rural picture, huh? And they're like, yeah, no, we still feel this way about it. Put it in and turn her out. But he takes it rural picture with Harrison Ford. Yes. And they still don't want to do it. That's what I'm saying. No, but that's crazy. Takes it to Warner Brothers. Warner Brothers is like Harrison Ford is too expensive. Takes it to MGM who says Harrison Ford can't act, which I guess is what I'm trying to say about. I guess he'd only been in these genre films and maybe there's still some impression of like, oh, he just does these big budget distractions. He doesn't play a real guy. Right. He has like a one liner and then jumps over something. This is his lone Oscar nomination as an actor. It's so much of this movie's legacy. It is an outrage. And I think he's phenomenal in this, but it's also like not his best performance. And in my opinion, it might be his best performance. You step back and you're like, that nomination more than anything was Hollywood going like, okay, we admit, you know what you're doing. It's definitely Hollywood doing that. But I think it's arguably his best performance. It remains rude that this is his only nomination. And I was also just going through the math of like, he has been an eight best picture nominees, I think. Right. And also, you know, the Oscars and Hollywood in general don't tend to valorize the kind of movie star acting that you know so well in Indiana Jones and in Star Wars and like even in the Fugitive where though they gave Tommy Lee an Oscar for that and they wouldn't even, and he was not even nominated, which is insane. That's a little bizarre where you're like, oh, there are like four, three acting nominations for working girl and he gets snubbed. The Fugitive snub is tough. They're just, they're snoddy about box office. It's a really crappy year. They still are snoddy about box office. You know, the Oscars in particular. So I think this is his like quote unquote best capital A acting performance. And I, you know, I guess he does like jump over stuff, but it like, you know, like a couple times or like, or, you know, like dives into some corner, whatever. The way he always self deprecatingly refers to it is I'm good at falling down. Right. But it's like, it's, it's not the full Harrison Fordix. No, no, it's not. It's a very important bridge film in that sense, but that's what he was looking for. You know, I mean, yes. To carry on. Yes, you're right. He's looking for that. He apparently does not want to work for Universal. They had replaced him with Mel Gibson on a project that JJ guesses was maybe the film The River. So he's pissed off at Universal. But Paramount is interested. Yes. The only one guys left. And also was in the middle of making a ton of money off Indiana Jones for him. This is, he's basically signing on to this movie as Templadum is filming, I believe. Sure. Yes, exactly. You're living dangerously is just coming out and Feldman, the producer goes to see that and is like, I want that guy, Peter Weir. So Peter Weir is prepping the Mosquito Coast, which is at Warner Brothers and of course will come out after Witness eventually. Jack Nicholson is attached to that. Yes. And so while they are, you know, like they're like, okay, they cycle through some other directors, Peter Yates, but it doesn't happen. Arthur Penn, Paramount's not interested. John Badham says no. These are all guys at the time. The woman who directed Testament. Okay. Do you know that movie, which I've never seen, which is a post-apocalyptic movie with Lynn Littman, Jane Alexander film. I know she was attached at one point because that movie is Lucas Haas's debut and she's the one who recommended Lucas Haas. Yeah. That a lot of people from Testament end up working on this film because she had brought them on. Interesting. But yes, they're cycling through many, many directors. But then what happens? Mosquito Coast falls apart. He's like overseas scouting. Yes. And he said it was the first time that it happened where it was like he thought he was going to be filming in two months and the movie completely falls apart. And we're is no interest in this movie in particular, but it's like, I think I just need a job and I think maybe I need to do something I'm not obsessed with because he's kind of obsessed with mosquito. It goes back to the Hollywood thing, right? That he was a guy who was attracted to the idea of a Hollywood career, not in terms of just like, can I buy a beach house? But that he goes to his rep and says like, I think I want to be an assignment filmmaker. I want to try the old Hollywood thing. Find me a picture that is green. Right. Exactly. What's it basically a go picture with a script that seems solid? And it wasn't just that he wanted to be filming something. It was also that he was like, I kind of like the challenge of seeing what's the thing with all the pieces put together and what can I bring to it? And he brings them three scripts and witnesses the one he likes. The last twist is that Redford suddenly is like, I want to do witness. This looks good. Makes sense. It does make sense. And he probably be good. Does he he wants to star? Star. Okay. He doesn't want to direct. But because we're has come aboard partly, I think I think there's just heat around we're to, you know, you're living dangerously is this thing. And he kind of tries to muscle in and Feldman is like, no, we're committed to Ford. We are ready to go. You know what I mean? Like it's like, I'm not fucking with this again. It's tempting. Like, but it could be a disaster. The thing with Redford also is he's a big control freak. He's going to, you know, take over in ways that maybe you don't anticipate. So like you're saying, we're, we're kind of likes it's like, this is studio filmmaking. Yes, this has some cliches in it. Yes, I don't really know anything about Amish country, but like, I'm just going to do my best job. But it's also him kind of coveting that era of filmmaking, you know, and what good came out of it of just being like, if I really have my bones as a director, couldn't I be someone who can slot into something like this and find a way to make it personal? And basically his process at that point is just like cut 60 pages out of the script. Well, it's more, it's the, and it's the same thing we talk about this on the depot society episode. I think it comes up over and over again. He's like, let's pull out some of the violence. It's too much. Let's make the love story less overt rather than like a full romance. Yeah, right. He has rather than shown. He has the guts to not lean too hard on these like very traumatic elements to be like, no, we don't need it. We don't need it. And apparently the producers are freaking out because they're like, that's the like juicy stuff. But he's big. Like, don't use music unless you need to. If you can convey it in a look, take all the dialogue out guy. Cause dead poet society to spoil event. You're originally ended with Robin Williams dying of cancer. Right. And we were keeping that a secret. Right. Exactly. This doesn't need a different morbid twist. This doesn't actually have to be a soap opera. But you read that the, this original script had them having a full sex scene that plays out on camera. That the line that I butchered in the opening was like a multi-page conversation. And there was similarly a multi-page monologue at the end of the film saying goodbye. You know, and he's just none of that is necessary. He also directly invoked in some of the interviews I was finding that like he was obsessed with the Hayes Code era that you have early Hollywood that's super fucking horny. Then the Hayes Code comes in and all these movies are restricted, but they're overflowing with sexual tension. Right. And he was like, I found those films more sexually charged when there was a thing that couldn't be said and the movie's boxed in has to find another way to express it. And when you're dealing with a culture that is like repressed and plain, it's a very good match. And he was just like, I think the most erotic version of this movie, if the motor at the center is there to the motor at the center is their tension is the one in which they're not saying the thing. Yeah. I mean, it's like it's showing, not telling. It's restraint as, you know, additive. It's like it is not an instinct that we have really in any type of culture right now, but certainly not in filmmaking. You know, I mean, people fucking lost their minds when they didn't kiss at the end of twisters. Yes. You know, well, I didn't think it. Well, I mean, I'm very on the record for what should have happened in twisters. Tell us. I mean, I like more attorney. Sure. Yeah. I mean, I'll say I like cheered when she showed up. That's the mom. Yeah. Don't we kind of believe that maybe he did. Yeah. Well, the or. The film is like more textual. Why was you already at the. Exactly. Where she's like, I kind of have a crush on this guy. More attorneys like you should. I would know. Comes in with a towel round. Exactly. But like everything. I have forgotten. I got to admit. Pleasant time. Yeah. Sure. But everything has to be spoon fed to people. Yes. You know, like it's and and audiences are angry if it's not explicitly spoon fed to them. If the if the film's thesis is not like said allowed. I will also say I. Yes. Yes. A big bugbear of mine. Also say my problem with twisters is that I'm like them not kissing at the end. Yeah. Feels like a reference to movies not doing that rather than a thing. The movie itself is earned. It feels like someone's like, you don't be cool as if they didn't kiss because remember and then cited six movies where that happened rather than the movie being constructed around in a way that witnesses where you're just like there's an hour and a half before Kelly McGillis and Harrison Ford kiss where you are exploding where you're so aware of the fact that the movie is consciously avoiding that. Yeah. I mean, I don't mean to imply that whatever is going on in twisters is any way on the level of what's going on between Harrison Ford and yeah, like Kelly Riley. Like it's not. I just that was a recent example of people being mad on totally. Totally. But that's if you want to get away with doing this kind of thing, you have to do it intentionally. Yeah. And it's like Peter Weir isn't just doing like, I don't care, get it out of here. Like he's very deliberate in what he's pulling and what he's replacing it with. Right. It's show. Don't tell you have to be smart about the show. Yeah. You have to land the show. Right. But I think this does to this point. Harrison Ford says what he liked about the script is it was more or less a literate script for adults. I saw a movie in it. It felt like a movie. It had something to say. It has a moral point of view. Like he's smart. I mean, Harrison Ford is smart. Yeah. I'm sure he felt the exact same way about random hearts. It's just funny the kind like he makes witnessing movies over and over again. And sometimes it works and sometimes it's like, this successfully creates another silo of his movie star persona, which is right. You can have a Harrison Ford movie that is me in a pretty nice suit. Yes. Being a grown up. It's going to be an adult movie that's not usually two over the top. Most of them are. Like Presumed Innocent and Frantic have a little more of the lurid quality. Yeah. But he did successfully make this kind of like its own franchise of like you could tell when a Harrison Ford movie was being sold as this one's a little more for grownups and it would still work. Right. And I'm going to be a little bit of a rascal. Yeah. And my moral compass will ultimately be where it needs to be, even in Presumed innocent, though, like that gets pretty wonky but like, yeah, but it's not him. Conn further. Well, that movie is awesome. That movie is so good. So, you know, in he would, he would hang out with some Philly homicide cops. He did his work. Now to cast Rachel Lapp. Can I just jump in here with one thing? What? Don't say it with that level of disdain. What, what, what, what. Talking about the making of the movie witness Peter Weir was like I love this script But I this is a list movie star. Hmm. Is this guy gonna be a diva? Is he gonna swing around too much weight? Like I need to meet with him and see if there's like an unspoken connection because otherwise I don't know what I'm getting into I've never worked with someone at this level before and he goes to where Harrison Ford lives at the time at some ranch and Harrison Ford picks him up himself at the local airport and he's like good sign of character, you know didn't send a fucking show Right, and then they like sit down in Harrison Ford's kitchen and they go over the script And he was like all he wanted to talk about was what could make the story better There was no like I want my character to have a moment like this, right? What's the motivation here? It was sort of unspoken. We both think this character's rock solid What I'm concerned with is the big picture and he was just like yeah, thank you so much He said I'm Dobb mob for life. Yeah But that he was like but David did crush that draft and good job by him. Yes. Yeah Some people think Just maybe the vote had gone on a little longer the mucket heads would have risen up or come to their senses But no But he like it's the thing you always hear about Harrison Ford that he like approaches everything like craftsmen And I think his ultimate value as a movie star is like few people have ever been better at carrying an audience through a movie Sure, and it's not just that he has the innate like appeal, right? It's that he really thinks about that stuff and he was like there was no eager driven Conversation it was all just like what does this movie need to work? You know like yeah most kind of movie star note was Originally, I think the final Battle with the bad guys sure was a shootout and he was like this sucks. We need to have a more exciting way for one of these guys to die Just be like bang bang But like people have shown up the something needs to happen that feels like ingrained in it rocks It's so good was he was John book originally a carpenter in the script Or does that feel like a hair? Can work would I don't know but that feels like something no It was not in the script and we're was like I think you need to see what they do So it doesn't all just become like the comedy of like how weird it is they eat breakfast at this time, right? Right, right, but like but Harrison Ford is absolutely. Yeah, it was a carpenter Yeah, like he built Joan Diddians like Deccan Malamut or whatever It's a very smart show don't tell looking at the elements of what yeah It was not in the script and he was just like I think we should do this They a lot entire day for it and the movie uses like five continuous minutes of footage Which other people would be like fucking hurry it up. We don't need to see the whole barn Rachel lab. Yeah Um First they want Glenn close. Okay, sense. She's her yeah at the time She's on the real thing on Broadway, which is this gigantic, you know, Tom stopper Mike Nichols directed and Jeremy Irons is her co-star and her agent is like look I'll get her out of the show and they're like no you won't like Nickles would fucking nuke you Peter we're pivots to Isabella Ross Elini. Mm-hmm. She's kind of wishy-washy about it Maybe maybe not she goes over to the bearish Nikov movie white nights instead. Okay, we're does actually work with her in I mean witness is way better than white nights, but like white nights is pretty good. Yeah. Yeah, that's some Dance trash movie for you right there. Right, right right garbage dance movie then Peter weir's like what if we got like a German actress right right like we're casting a Pennsylvania Dutch woman. Yeah, sure and Like they think about that, but they can't find anyone There's just one lady apparently he likes of the unnamed who like called on the phone and was like hello mr. Veer and they were like this is not gonna work. No Kelly McGillis. Yeah high school dropout Mm-hmm had studied the Pacific con in servitoria performing arts But then where'd she go after that Davis? Juilliard and then she was in Ruben Ruben, which is the Tom Conti movie. Yeah, the Tom Conti movie I've never seen it. What a title though. It's about a guy eating two sandwiches. Yeah, exactly one on each hand Why is it called Ruben Ruben? He's not playing a character called Ruben interesting Apparently there's a dog called Ruben Okay, but he Tom Conti got an Oscar nomination for that movie that is her only previous film credit This is her second because that's 83 right that yeah, and I guess he correctly is like I want someone on the more sort of like New side because this is a fairly kind of Innocent character. Yes, I guess right and I mean, I think he's very smart like you were saying that Ford Spent a lot of time following Philly police, right? And then was like I don't want to do any Amish research because my character shouldn't know any Yeah, exactly sense. Yeah, the Amish people were like fully immersed in doing a ton of research and living in Amish country Because they had to know it, but I also think very smartly They kept being like who's the big name who'd be good for this role and then settling on a recent Juilliard grad an opera singer a ballet dancer Mortensen like it helps that when he goes to this place obviously you watch it now and like two of the four are super fucking Recognizable sure in retrospect, but it must have helped that you're like he enters one of these people right And and they're also Introducing me into this world that I do not know about either and he's casting vibes and looks in a lot of ways apparently Ford was not into the screen test and was like Yeah, and Peter said quote Harrison if you're gonna work with me You've got to trust me and if you don't trust me you shouldn't make the movie and everyone goes quiet and Like Harrison's like, okay. Well, I guess she's in the picture, you know like so. Yeah respect shit exactly And so they you know, they send her off to Lancaster country and she hangs out with some some Amish people like they give her they give her They give her a you know a little education We're has her work with an accent coach and he said I His greatest worry is that sometimes if people work on the accent too hard the accent becomes the entire performance Yeah, you don't want them to write and he kept doing like check-ins with her every couple days And then one time she calls and does the accent for him and he's like that was your last class roll it back to three days ago Okay, got it. You want one step too far? There are a lot of weird stories like that where it's like add add add add add and he's like actually subtract Coco Chanel, right? Exactly She one of the most interesting things she she learns when she's hanging out with the Amish family Which I really like is that they don't say please and thank you and she's like that really opened up Vast numbers of doors for me. They're not concerned about pleasantries just necessities of life. They're very real They're down to earth. They they're there to work life is work, right? You know like that's The rewarding thing for them. So that that I mean she's so good And like she's such an you know, she's a bit of a sad Hollywood story Because like you know, she gets discarded by Hollywood like I feel like by the early 90s essentially, right? Like she just has like a sort of five-ish year I've never seen cat chaser which is the able for our movie with her and Peter Weller and I was sounds like normal To dig in harder on this that was 90 that was 89. So she's obviously after this. She does top gun. Yes In 88 she does the accused I mean, that's the run the run That's her start of those three movies in Three years are just humongous, right? She says the cat chaser basically made her want to walk away from Hollywood I've not been able to find her go in depth as to what happened But you can make a lot of assumptions with two insane people she was working with but then she like scales way down She's right only big movie after that is right is the babe where she plays Mrs. Ruth in the Babe Ruth movie. It's like a lot of TV movies. What what does what is Mrs. Ruth up to? Well, she's she's writing a check that will be on cash and one day will be sold as part of the Bambino, right? I mean, I assume Babe Ruth's mom wife. I mean soon Babe Ruth's mom was like Jesus This giant child of mine who instingers what a fucking pun No, I mean famously actually Babe Ruth was like a child who like was just a street maniac like that They were like we cannot he had to be sent to like a home for boys But I think like Babe Ruth's life as an athlete despite being married to a couple different women was basically like fucking ladies every night She's on the road, you know Babe Ruth smoking 80 cigars eating four porterhouse steaks I like that you always hear about Babe Ruth. Wow, I think I know he was a it definitely feels like The industry moved on from telling us really quickly It also feels like you know, she had her sort of come back about 10 years ago where she was in a couple Ty West movies She came out. Oh, yeah, she's in the inn keepers She started doing like interviews and sort of talking more about like her arc And I feel like she does frame it as like to some degree. I was just like I fucking hate these people I hate this industry. I don't want to do it anymore. I don't want to do it anymore You know, I expect that I'm sure they also were not offering her the project. She was deserving of But she also kind of frames it as like I really soured on it pretty quickly. I mean, yeah, it's it sucks I mean, I don't know. She's the whole thing with her in Top Gun is it's like It's not like she's bad in Top Gun, but she and Cruz don't have And it just like I mean it's funny when you were talking about Harrison Ford Peter we are meeting and the prep and he's sitting down and he's like, okay So like what can I do to make this movie better? Which is in many ways like the complete opposite of the Tom Cruise experience, which is like what can I I am? Singually focus on what can I do to make sure that I'm Ethan Hunt? Yeah in every frame Yeah of this movie and you guys understand I saved movies and all of all of the world It's the Harrison Ford craftsman. Yeah, you know and and like there's an interview on this beautiful arrow set of Him doing like some daytime talk show when this movie is about to come out Mm-hmm With like a fluffy like, you know local daytime journalist Yeah, and he's clearly not disrespectful to her and she's not stupid But immediately she's like, you know, you have a bit of reputation for not liking doing this that you seem uncomfortable when you're doing press But I've heard and tell me if this is just a line that you actually said I want to do as much press as I can for this movie Because I care about it a lot and he does his very flashy Unflashy Harrison Ford like well, I'm proud of the picture and how it turned out That sells itself and you have to go do it because otherwise if you're making work But it's not communicating with people then what's the point these like his notorious reputation for sure being a bit of a Stonewall and then you watch it and you're like, he's just not doing soft shoot to sell his movies He's speaking very intelligently and reserved it's like Leo on new heights. Totally. Yeah, which is kind of like Guys remember that six to eight months ago Leonardo DiCaprio went on the new heights podcast with Benicio del Toro It's just so funny that they always had him with Benicio except when he was on big picture He was with PTA, but largely it was like him and Benicio Yeah, and it kind of felt like Benicio was his like little sort of helper Remember they did that with him and pit on one spawn time in Hollywood. Yeah, they went on WTF together That was great and there was like five minutes when they were talked They actually let their guards down and they were talking about all the different ways that they get away from the paparazzi And that was awesome, but largely they're more Professionals, you know, they like they they've done this and they know what they want to say and what they don't new heights Which is not a podcast I listen to me. Thanks to it Like I only see little clips sometimes but that one the clips where it's just like Jason Kelsey Just to start off and you just like I don't think this is his energy Hello, thank you for having me I love cinema Thank you Leo. We glad you love cinema. I mean God bless him. He's he's out there He wants to sell the movie And you can't go on Fallon anymore. I mean you can but like nobody cares Yeah, this woman in the interview is doing the fucking 1985 version of our current media landscape hell where she just keeps pushing like One could guess that perhaps this movie is you trying to like put Indiana Jones and Right on solo in the back seat and he's like no, I'm proud of those movies I'm proud of those performances. I will make a third Indiana Jones picture Right, and she's like but do you hate the golden handcuffs of being known for these two big franchises and he's like I'm not gonna be an asshole I'm not playing about I'm proud of the films. I like the people I work with You know that she is sensing that he sees this as a pivot point and thus he might be trying to Right throw the old stuff in the garbage I don't want to be seen that way anymore and he's so even handed about it But he also kind of keeps saying I've heard him say this in other places like he was like 36 or 37 when Star Wars happened Sure, he had gone through his whole arc of like fucking Leaving a studio contract becoming a carpenter building back up the small parts with American graffiti and was just like I'm here to do work Like I have no discomfort with this. I had walked away from it once before I'm not gonna complain about being too successful Yeah, and being pigeonholed into being an A-lister, but I want to use my power for good. There's a Men's health cover I'm featuring Kyle Chandler I think from like 10 15 years ago and the cover line is like a good hang with the last real American I can tell you exactly what it says. It says a serious hang The last solid dude, okay, and he's looking good, you know It's the best cover line writing that ever because I think about it anytime I'm couldn't front it with like the last solid dude, you know, but like Harrison Ford was giving a solid dude But they also had I will say yeah to the best summer gear best new tennis racket We can bag sunglasses for every sport and of course cruising motorcycles Now I need two to three cruising motorcycles every summer Probably does in addition to the planes Does sure that's right. I imagine he's done it in his off time as well, but it feels like a vehicle guy Yeah, right like he likes vehicles. Yeah, okay He enjoys cycling in tennis. I like my little red wagon I remember when he was big bike. Yeah when he was in the UK filming the new Indiana Jones Which we don't have to talk about he was like, you know in his band ex like cycling around on the weekends a lot Just showing up at pubs. I know he's done 15 television series and that's an amount of time Yeah, but it was a little alarming to look at his IMDB last night and go like oh Post pandemic he has only made two films which are Dalladestiny and Captain America Brave New World. Oh, right red. I'm totally forgot about that Nothing but respect. Oh, right, of course We also have another one over here, okay, and a popcorn Pretty funny that Harris and Ford played Red Ross like eight films into that role right and turned into red Hulk, right? And I guess now Marvel will just kind of be like just forget it. I forget that yeah fucking happened Yeah, it just feels like a shame. Yeah, it's a shame. I mean he does shrinking right and everyone loves shrink He likes do they nobody loves never seen it. My mom loves shrinking But also talks about it as if it's final season Game of Thrones where she's like you and your friends aren't watching shrinking Everyone I talked to is watching shrinking. I can't say I've shrunk Yeah, and then he did right 1923. Yes hell Helen Mirren, right? But that was like a one season thing right to Is his character still alive which Dutton is he he is Jacob Tutton, of course, and he is I mean he's alive in 1923 Hey, maybe he's on ice and in Yellowstone. They'll like find him in like an ice chest. I hope so. I'm out And you rulk sound Yellowstone is is current day Yellowstone is present day Oh, okay, that's right. And so we had to go to the past 18 something and they've done 1923 Yeah, have they done anything like 50 60s? I don't they should do like yet 3000 BC and it's just like oh grass. I'm gonna say future. Oh sure 2099 Wow Where they're getting like cyber oil Cyber cattle the cyber Dutton's everything just be cyber I mean this is a thing I feel like Chris Ryan is constantly sort of litigating but like I am sometimes confused as to which shared inverse shows are Yellowstone Universe in which ones aren't like law man gas Reeves is not Connected to Yellowstone. No, that's because that's about a real person, right? And I think Tulsa King is also not right and why not just set in our disgusting woke world Right, Sylvester Stallone must dismantle brick by brick. Yeah, but um They they have done of course 1883 1923 and then they have upcoming the Madison Okay, with Michelle Pfeiffer and Patrick J. Adams and Matthew Fox. We need is a photo. I am out. Oh wow And then something called why? Marshals, yeah, do you know what why is if I'm not mistaken? Well, I'm guessing that why refers to Yellowstone, but go ahead Well that I mean I assume the greatest boondoggle of the modern Streaming era is that Paramount sells the Yellowstone rights to all but yeah, because they're like well We're never gonna start a streaming service and then CBS and Paramount Remerge and now Paramount inherits CBS all access rebrands as Paramount plus and is like you're telling me they have Yellowstone forever So when the whole Sheridan Costner Bruja blows over They're rubbing their hands together and they're like well the show ends we stop having to give peacock anything So they're making a new show. That's most of the supporting cast Okay, it's got your day Yellowstone your Luke Grimes your Gil Birmingham Continuing the same plot lines, but they're like it's a new show. Oh great and we own this now got it Okay, and I guess they're calling it why instead of Yellowstone to even more distance itself They're also working on 1944 and then something called 6 6 6 6 a shutter to think what that Yellowstone in hell Probably look witness. Let's talk about witness I just want to tell you of course that they filmed in Lancaster County But of course they did not film the Amish who refused to be filmed and we're like you can take anything you want You can use our homes do not fucking capture our souls. I mean a little bit. I want to be very unhappy with this Have you have either of you been to Amish country? Absolutely. Yeah Like did you like take a bus were you the tourists like no, no It's just a nice place to go on vacation like it's it's sort of like going upstate New York But going this away and it's a slightly different vibe. I was gonna say for me It was like eighth grade overnight trip to Philly. It is a classic delivery The school right and we went to fucking Amish country and the thing I remember I maybe have invoked in previous episodes dinner we go to Amish country and you see that you get the tour and then they show you the butter and whatever the fuck right But then they were like and then we're gonna show you a 4d movie about Amish life And we went into a custom built theater to watch this 40 minute original film About a kid going on rum spring and thinking of leaving the Amish community and coming back But it was built in this environmental theater where there were like effects and like door shuttering and like wind and stuff And I was like, this is the most anti Amish thing Yeah, you're trying to sell me on the beauty of the simple life And you're like putting like William castler tanglers under the seat and having like It was like a theater built as if it was like a barn And shit would go off around Ben shaking his head. I was just always kind of jealous by the tradition of run spring Like I wasn't restricted really as a as a teen right at all I kind of got away with a lot of Troublemaking and shenanigans, but it was the idea of having the purge as yes There's something of like just go off. I love that idea. We actually want you to fuck up right, right? Yeah, yeah But it is I will say I think rum spring is a somewhat our view of it is uh, Not like entirely accurate. I think it's not just like taking ecstasy constantly and right going to clubs It's a pencil into dutch word for running around and uh, but I don't think like that the actual vibe of it by and large is like Yeah, you should like legal right you should like go to vegas and it's not like the purge No become a graffiti artist. It's a little bit more seen I think within most communities. It's like a time to engage in courtship and like, you know shoplift So just be a little looser with like Okay, you know, it's like it's so when you say engage in courtship though, you do me like fuck around Yeah, but I don't find out I don't think it's like right. Why don't you just like hit the clubs and just like run through ladies part of it I'm sure is that it was mainly uh meant to be shown to uh school groups like the one I was in But this 4d movie its depiction of rum spring out was a uh an amish kid driving a car and eating a slice of pizza Right. Yeah, and they're like she's going christ Right, I think there's a little bit of like okay Like things can be a little less strict while you're in this kind of like unsettled 16 17 18 year old time of your life Where you maybe want to explore right, you know just being english one hand on the wheel one hand on the slice Exactly There was a line I remember where he literally was like look, I love my grandfather, but pizza's gonna be pretty hard to give off Yeah, look, I mean it's so true Maybe they can make pizza Is just not plain the whole thing with the amish is like I'm just like it'd be the plainest pizza you've ever had I can feel myself being disrespectful to a community. I don't understand the second I start talking about it. All I have her stereo So an amazing thing about this movie is that I like I know the amish themselves hated it And so it was the menonites who were like filmed as extras, right? Right, but I think it is very respectful. Of course. That's why this movie is so beautiful, you know, and it's like and it is It sells what is like lovely about this community and you watch it thinking of your magic Stay or at least just like what the whole thing that's interesting to me about Witness, which we should talk about which is a film about john book John book Harrison Ford is john book. But of course initially it is about rachel lap A woman in an amish community whose husband has died played by kelly mcgillis Who with her son samuel played by lucas haas and his big moon eyes just the biggest eyes in the world Also his drug ears and cute ears, but I just feel like the eyes are so vital because you're like Yes, yes, like and anytime you see those eyes of his you're just like it's still You know when he sees dany glover in the like press clipping in the box. They have that shot that is like Like of his eyes like to get out get out eyes shot, you know, and he's like, oh, it's that one So Harrison Ford like calmly putting his finger down is like a shot. I never forget Even the inciting incident of this movie just being seeing his eyes through the crack of the Door you need those eyes to punch through the crack. Yeah But his his you know, they're they're going to baltimore to spend time with her sister Is her sister also amish one assumes or has she maybe left the community in some way zoomably here? It's not really it's not made clear what's going on in baltimore is not Totally clear, but I guess the vibe is kind of like you need to mourn you need a little bit of time to get some I don't know And while they're clear, it's going to be his first time leaving. It's his first time on a train It's just all that's first time visiting the city. I mean, it's the exact again not to dwell on dead poets But we did the recently yeah opening of dead poets where it's like everyone filing into the school And you're just it's just quiet like the way this one just starts with the funeral where it's just like just I'm bringing the heat up slowly like just get to know this like landscape these people Like it doesn't need to be lurid. It doesn't be weird or goofy It's just kind of lovely him getting on the train is so lovely and like looking out the window and being so excited Also fully 15 minutes before Harrison four shows up and of course he witnesses a throat slashing Yeah, he's pretty creative in the little stalls Does some stall action Indiana Jones grab a swivel. Yeah, exactly. Yeah, and that had at the last moment. He's really smart Danny Glover a very new to film Danny Glover, of course He had only done places in the heart Sounds like I know that like because the whole thing with him too is he starts a little late like Danny Glover Do you find he's almost immediately too old for this shit? Right the other thing is I think because Danny Glover like hits the ground running It like arrives as like a fully formed adult movie star in a way his color purple is like, you know Same year is in the fall or whatever right and then lethal weapons the year after like it's such a quick kind of Ascension that something in my brain short circuits when I see him in a movie like this and he's not hyper famous yet Right like he shows up There's just no error of like watching other a-list movie stars where you're like Oh, there are a couple like small parts They have where they're a little green before they figure out their stuff And they figure out their look and you're like even in this it doesn't Unbalance the movie But I'm being like right Danny Glover's only in like three scenes Right and you're I mean it's hard when you're going back in time and when you've because this is not the first time you have You Griffin. Yes have seen Danny Glover. So even though right it's he's new It in the movie to the scene Not new to you that that is my point is that unlike other people where you can go back and watch the earlier films and be like Oh, of course, this is early in their career before they were a big star Danny Glover just somehow always feels like he must have been above the title from the beginning I Griffin David yes Did you know fast growing trees is America's largest and most trusted online nursery With thousands of trees and plants and over two million happy customers. Oh my sign. 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There are live and thrive guarantee Promises that your plants arrive happy and healthy no green thumb required Just quality plants you can count on plus get ongoing support from trained plants experts Who can help plan your landscape choose the right plants and learn how to care for them every step of the way now ben I know you were talking about this because you did this. I recently ordered you got a tree trees I am Groot Groot. What's that? Just throwing in some quotes the fuel relevant is reactions. Got it Now initially, of course, I was going to let Griffin have his pick because It just ended up being that you had too many trees in your yard. It's a problem. I mean, I I'm all thumbs green thumbs I got 10 green thumbs It's hard for me to do any other task because I'm so busy planting trees and watching them grow so fast So graciously graciously he allowed me to select some trees. Yeah, so um I actually picked some stuff out for my dad. Oh very nice humble, right? So he got himself a couple of Sky pencil holly trees. Oh cool. Let me look these up. Oh very nice. Oh, yeah, this sort of like tall thin boys. Yeah, yep and then he also got a lilac shrub a lilac shrub Is that fair economy? Yeah. Yeah, lilac is through the roof and I love the smell of a lilac flower So the whole process was so easy The thing I really love as far as like the features that are available on this site is you enter in your zip code and it gives you A growing zone so you're able to pick out the right kinds of plants that are going to thrive in your climate He's planted this stuff. Yeah, it all came healthy like they said. Yeah, and They look great and I bet it planted a big old smile on his face to watch these trees Absolutely, and now here's the best part. I went and I helped him out and I got to dig a hole That is the best part one two three life's a hole. Dig it. Show dirt. Okay guys right now They have great deals on spring planting essentials up to half off and select plants and listeners to our show get 20 off their first purchase when using the code check at checkout. Mmm That's an additional 20 off better plants and better growing at fastgrowingtrees.com using the code check at checkout fastgrowingtrees.com code check Now that's the perfect time to plant. Let's grow together use check to save today Offer is valid for a limited time terms and conditions may apply and I have one last thing to say Life is like a box of chocolates force come very good. Thank you Here comes, you know, he witnesses this crime here comes john book. Mm-hmm trying to figure out what happened And patty lupon is is you know his trusty sister. Yeah, he's got the great. Um the great I love him. What's his name? Brent Jennings from moneyball? That's who I like he's a guy who's in a billion Incredibly hard, but I can I he's washed just right a perfect. Tell him what I'm doing incredibly hard Perfect line delivery. I think like and I'm saying like seriously look at this guy's resume lovely career Unbelievable amount of movies. Yes. He's still with us. He's 74 years old But one could only hope to hit one line out of the park that hard But he's great in this he's the trusty, uh, you know a partner of john And I also feel like is not a movie cop. He feels like a real cop I mean the sweet thing right early on when he the Um, you know, Samuel camp doesn't really have the words for saying that the person he saw was black Yeah, so he was like you but not what's the word for run? You know, we don't need to do it. Yeah. Yeah Um, but yeah, no, it's just that that moment where john book like the the hint of the ferrisan smile It's great. Yeah, right across his face like I like this kid, you know, it's just so good But it's that's also a thing we talk so much about how being good with kids is a thing that tends to like Elevate a movie star to like legend status. Yeah, because he kind of can't fake it Yeah, and then you think like oh, he hasn't really Interacted with children on screen up until this point. Yeah, I guess so as much as he has been a movie star Beloved by little boys Right and peter rearva talks about when he did just have short round. Oh, you're right. I'm sorry But that's we got a that's right before this. Yeah. Yeah. No, you're right. You're right Uh, but that his introduction is this kid is sitting here and Harrison Ford lowers himself into the frame Right that he gets down to the kids eye level. That's it's some princess Diana shit, you know It does immediately. Yeah, and he is the prince of my mood to his performance It's just also like It's a very primal heredero normative thing about I'm about to say but it makes him so hot, you know It's just like this single like this single hot guy who's just like oh and now I know instinctively how to like bond with this kid I'm just like Mm-hmm. Hello. Here's the take right that I forgot. This is what I was gonna say The whole thing that's the quiet thing in this movie is that he's a really angry guy Yeah, and you see these moments obviously the biggest being late in the movie when he punches the mean tourist guy Who by the way, fuck that guy Ice cream and the being mean and then they're like, whoa, this is bad for the industry if Amish you're fighting back Yeah, although there's probably someone on tiktok like espousing the values of the ice cream facial and doing this to themselves on purpose But there are these little moments where you're like, right? This guy's one thing is that like and that's this is why he's a cop He's got this kind of like weird righteous streak, but there's like a rage to him Yeah, and that's why it's so good for him to be on the farm And you can feel him kind of finding an equilibrium that he maybe doesn't have Doesn't exactly cover himself in the with glory in the first 15 minutes the whole like let's stop by a local Philly bar and just like pull out some black guys that we know, you know and try to arrest them not not good Not by the book. Yeah, exactly the guy's name is trump book. So that's really weird actually kind of ironic Uh, isn't there a line in the movie where they invoke that he's Trying to be a better father to his sister's kids. Yes, they talk about all of this exactly He's like a little afraid to have his own kids Right, there's that whole But like we see, you know, it's a very circumstantial moment But just him showing up and immediately fucking criticizing lapone. Oh, yeah for doing it wrong, right? Lapone rocking a full mullet. What's going on? It is it is a full mullet and what he's criticizing her for not doing it wrong is Having a overnight visitor. Yes while her two children are in the home Which you know, I think single moms should get to do whatever they want. I'm not saying she's doing it wrong He's acting like she's doing it wrong. He's not doing a great job. He's policing her in a way that's really fucking judgy There is a deleted scene that was part of the tv broadcast Uh, sure that is five minutes of kelly magillus and patty lapone. Sounds great. Where oh, yeah Bring that to broadway right now before book comes and pulls them, right? Where she comes downstairs kelly magillus and Uh, uh, lucas haas. She has three children I think or maybe it's only two lucas haas is playing donkey kong with them and there are like bowls of sugary cereal and like fucking Radios blaring and kelly magillus looks shocked and then it cuts to patty lapone coming downstairs And all three children are like scrubbing the kitchen like the cinderella mice Okay, and then patty lapone takes it as a judgment on her mother ring And they have this emotional connection and it's like not a bad scene at all But you can see why we were cut it because it's like saying the thing out loud over and over It has patty lapone like breaking down in tears and it's not as vital to the and it's also like a little more like You know culture worry. Yes as opposed to I find the way that the film judges John book and like the modern values, you know, they they fixate on the gun and she's like I don't want your gun in my house this gun of the hand You know, which is like an incredible turn of phrase and like that that seems like A valid concern and less judgy than being like well, let me let me think about how you're parenting I'm like what your sugar content is, you know the scene ends with like kelly magillus have to having to apologize Right. It's all like a little overstated. Yeah Yeah, I need to get to Amish country. You do and this movie does a pretty good job Convincing you it's more than a pretty good. It's a great screenplay. Yeah, like Giving you the chain of events that are like, you know what? He simply must hide out in Amish country with these people Because it's because it's a little because they're bad cops. Yeah. Yes. Because it's bad cops because he's himself Uh, you know gets shot like all this stuff Lucas Haas is able to ID Danny Glover Ford goes to his chief He goes to yeah, yeah, he's his boss who You know who is that? Drugs are missing right. He's put the piece together The piece is together. He thinks he solved the whole case Joseph summer who's basically to me just like german Ronny Cox. You know what I mean? Yes, especially in the two minutes being like This is Ronny Cox. No, it's not but it could be yes And like that scene is so great because I'm immediately like don't don't do it As soon as he's like let's just keep it who else knows about this Let's keep it between the two of us and like we've all been trained at this point So then Danny Glover shows up in the um in the parking lot Shoot out, but the best part is the rich couple in the car. Yeah, the elevator The husband being like You don't give a shit. It's really funny. What would you do if your car was getting shot up at Danny Glover in a You know inadvertent situation. What would you also would you just quietly like door close it? I don't know. I might have an initial like panic moment. I think it'd feel like it's real Well, I mean and we've been taught in emergency situations to not get In the elevator, you know that like you don't want to be stuck in an elevator in a fire Right. So and then you're trapped right so and then also, you know, does that out close door? Close elevator button work is you know, like I I've been told it's an urban life at the time. Yeah, it's a placebo Are the elevator doors bulletproof? I mean, there are many questions here. That is a great question that I wanted But you're not gonna walk out. You know, you're not you're not gonna be like You know what big old parking garage? Yeah, no, but also maybe there's a universe in which I simultaneously hold down the closed door Button and the basement button. So I'm like doors closed staying here in stasis If I feel like the doors can protect me, but then you're worried about the I think instinctively I would just run back in and like press every button that I could yeah I don't think calling a timeout is gonna work. I know. Okay. Hold up. Let me just back the car out Let me just get it out of here. Yeah, um, but yes, he immediately puts together. I only told one guy clearly. He's in on it My now there's basically no one I can trust I gotta get these witnesses out of here Right, uh, so his right it is what is smart in the construction of this movie Is that he's not immediately saying I gotta go hide out in homage country. No, that's the correct element Is that he's like you guys stay here. I'm gonna go that little mailboxy thing. What is it birdhouse? What is that? Yeah, try to not hit that and Definitely But he's right. He's been shot. He's so caught up in his stoic thing that he's like I gotta save them Right goes drives them guy bleeding out happily the Serious infection that he gets from the bullet that is still in his body Does not take over until he has dropped them off in homage country, you know But it's like once he's setting out on his own just in time to have a fever takes hold the mailbox and nothing worse Yeah Is it no, it's a birdhouse, but like why do they need a birdhouse for the birds sure, but like I guess just for birds so the are the birds don't have to be playing also the whole thing That's a good point and inside that birdhouse. It is teched out Whole thing with the homage. I understand that we probably have zero to one homage listeners Because the homage probably aren't listening to too many podcasts, right and listen around romspring. Oh, yeah You can listen to all the podcasts you wish Um father I went through 10 years of blank check in merely two weeks But one stereotype I obviously have about the homage is that they're wonderful woodworkers and like yeah Like they you know, there's this place near my home in brooklyn Where if your chair breaks and you give it to this guy, he sends it off to the homage for them to fix it Yeah, so I think that it's like that's recreational right like making a beautiful little birdhouse It's like it it's useful Practical enough item to raise a barn every week, but you need projects every day crafting this I guess like are the birds doing work for you. Does it all have to be work? Well, that's kind of what it seems like I'd like to imagine little homage birds in there building their own little tiny bug house. They have How are the I am I am anti bird laying plain I don't like birds. I think birds are upsetting. I don't I mean I respect the bird the majestic bird I respect I don't really want him in my house I respect them but because they are Freaky and they're organized and they can rise up against like I mean hitchcock had it right Also, they're dinosaurs That's not cool. That's a little scary So and and they're just they're talking to each other they have patterns Are they keep to themselves? They're doing their own thing and you just get to perceive them just like Kind of walking around Everyone who's birding and it's like I once saw this like rarest form of bird that like I've never heard like what's that about? You know like where are all the other kinds? I'll say this I actually I'm almost envious. I wish I could structure my entire life around birding when I hear birders talk about like seems very relaxing I wake up at 3 a.m. I just stand in a field and I patiently wait to hear a call I'm like I wish that is all it took to make me I'm pretty far from being able to do something like that. Yeah. Yeah, it's like wow I think I don't have to work on a lot of stuff to get to that Not use phone. Yeah Because birding to me right it's like fishing it's like one of those things where if like if you get into it It's like you're gonna be waking up when when it dark But isn't this kind of the Amish appeal right? It's sort of this house. Yeah, you know the birds are we back on the birds? I like how absolutely hung up we are Would the Amish make a house? It feels like craving from wrong here. We're zooming out to a larger. Why do bird houses exist? Why no no no no The people are even making half measures. I would like to interrogate the internal logic of plainness as it relates to Bird houses and also. Mm-hmm now. We've gotten here uh Rachel gives john book a jacket and then she's like that has like eyes and hooks nice. No Then every single man is wearing their shirt with a button It's interesting like what's going on just I would just one button No, they're all buttoned but I assumed it was the top layer. I assumed it was the jacket. Yeah Yeah, but so why so the suit jackets can't have buttons, but the shirts can have buttons I don't know. We're gonna need a very good listeners way in or maybe I rewatch let me let me be super clear here This is not an indictment of the Amish, right? You're interrogating the movie. I'm interrogating how the movie is communicating Their beliefs to me and their way of life. See I wonder does his shirt have buttons? It does Because once I noticed this they all yeah have buttons and what's the um the guy with the he-man hair Um, that's good enough, right? Alexander good enough. Yeah, who's more than good enough in this movie? He's great He's fantastic. I think I've heard after this best known for diehard is this sort of he is Oh, shit. Yeah, he has buttons. Yes, and he died quite young Yeah, and then and then they don't really talk about this but like the use of color in the clothes Seems you know, but but some people do get to have like a green shirt or blue shirt spectrum Like, you know and also you can use natural dyes True true true true, but like natural tie. But it's supposed to be it's supposed to be plain Tie-dye shirt Yeah, I mean my question was are they saying like you haven't earned buttons yet You're back to like peak plainness. You got to work your way back up in the same way They're making him like prove himself in the community But but they give him a button shirt from the beginning I yeah, they do. Okay I have no answers here. Yeah, I don't know. I mean I just know questions that You know similar to the hecedium and another like sort of group that gets a lot of blanket things But there's like, you know varying sex with varying levels. Yeah, I'm sort of you know, they cross over in the train station I know that that's kind of a nice moment where Samuel is like it's a really interesting moment It is and I think it's yeah, it's well done because the guy doesn't look at him in a hostile way and sam is I mean Samuel isn't completely upset about it, but it is kind of a like right Same but different. What is this? Yeah. Yeah, and Like yeah, I mean there's so many things I could say about the he's like I'm so close to the he's he them right because they're in my they live in neighborhoods so close to work And I'm seeing them all the time and I have all these complicated feelings about them And then you watch a movie about the Amish and I know the Amish communities It's like there's sexual abuse that that right, you know, I've been you can write read about this You know, that's so hard to deal with in these like mega religious communities But then you watch this movie and you're like Ha to be milking cows and working wood and like that's what I need, you know It's the little thing like would it be nice to be able to do this? I think also it's what this movie gets really Right and why I think one of the reasons they cut out that lapone donkey Kong scene is like the humor is always Uh That he's a little bit out of sorts trying to coexist with them. Fish out of water. Yes It's never sort of the joke of like what is this, you know, the joke's never at them No, which I think is big and also there's so many moments more usually on him But in a very very gentle way in a very gentle way Even the moment of him coming out in the full outfit for the first time I'm like, this is so perfectly judged because two degrees further Harrison Ford looks silly in a way that makes the movie broad And it's not even about the outfit. It's about the way he's wearing it and how much he's playing the discomfort of it It's like everything is just perfectly judged in this weird way and and also then she laughs Yes, you know, so like but but she laughs in the she titters. She exactly like she tempers it as well Which kind of like signals to the audience. Okay, like this. Yeah, like this is a little funny, but we're not Doing you know Amish drag broad first. Yes. It's also this is so trite because we live in a silly country that sucks in so many ways It's first time hearing this. Yeah But you also are like, yeah, man That's kind of what America is right some guys who are like, hey, we do a really specific thing And their countries were like, yeah, fuck out of here. And they're like, we're gonna do it over here America's like, all right. Yeah, fucking. Yeah drive your buggy All right, you know, like and you're like it's beautiful. It's weird And especially like 200 years later, you're like everything else has changed and everyone's like mashed into the same pot We were like, but we have different bars and then you have these little sex of just like we have refused to acknowledge Right and there's jurors, but I feel like if you're in Lancaster kind of those other people like, yeah, yeah, they're That's what they're over there doing. They're saying yeah, I'm also saying though I think this movie makes the case where you're like I could see him staying. There is just enough tension. It's obviously very tight. We know so little of his life So you can kind of read that in but also as you said that his life doesn't seem to be going super well And this guy's over cranked and you're like he does seem to be finding some kind of inner peace I think the The movie just has has the tone and restraint so locked that you get to a point where you're like You think to yourself while watching it in that scene. They're like, well, like maybe he could stay This is comfortable. Yeah, two seconds later. You're like no because Obviously like he's not used to this lifestyle, you know two weeks later Like there's there's like a lot of tensions and like you think through it But you like you're carried away for a moment. Yes, and then you're like, no, we got to Acknowledge the reality of this situation which it's which is hard To to to modulate. Yes. I also think the sitcom plot version of this is like The richer poor being the Amish person fucking rules. I'm gonna stay here forever Getting really bullish and then they're smack down to earth and they learn their lesson Versus all of it happening internally with this guy being so filtered through The tension and passion builds to a moment And it's a moment where they're both sort of like this has no Future that isn't chaotic or sad or disruptive. Right, right? I mean I have to say you're gonna have to leave right and like Look, they are an anabaptist community If Harrison if john book Harrison Ford is john book Harrison Ford is john book wants to stay He's gonna have to get baptized and accept Jesus christ Like they don't they're not just like oh you like milkin cows hang out. They're like we are all in on jc Do you agree? The like movie really does Lied that like yes, I mean they talk. Yes the scene where uh the grandpa talks to him about the gun Yeah, and talks about god in that way. Yes, so good. It's so good, but it does not say Jesus christ. Yeah, you see them. Yeah, you see them praying before meals, but it's silent like there there is It walks like a very fine cultural religious line Of also to the point of everything we're saying I get baptized Is that stuff not in the movie not because they're like avoiding it? But because that doesn't really benefit the story they're telling here He's never about a man in spirit. Yeah, he's never gonna be tempted by Doesn't seem that way the idea of what if you double down on jc, right? He's gonna be tempted on the day-to-day life aspect of it not the theology 100 totally and also and I think and the The the basic mindset that underpins the day-to-day life as opposed to like the spiritual stuff He is also kind of like okay, you're gonna shack up with Rachel, right? Yeah, welcome to the community By the way, you met Joseph summer. I'm not just you know, you met grandpa. Yeah, you met good enough. He's your age It's kind of it like like it's like fucking 60 people like this isn't like a tip, you know, you're like v goes fifth built He has three lines. It's pretty small. So what do you guys do all day? We're fucking milk cows and shit once in a while we raise a barn anything else. That's it. You go see movies not allowed This is one of v goes that sucks that That does suck. Yeah, I'm out Except what if you met an Amish kid who had done rum springer? Yeah, and he's just really locked in on like one year of movies Like that's all he knows. But anyway, so I'm trying to run. I don't even know how to explain this Oh made perfect sense to me Also, these kids are coming to visit your your country and they're telling you about the 4d movie They just saw about you that you can't see that's fucking hell um No, I I just a lot of the reviews at the time, uh, I think trying to Crack who we are was as a filmmaker as he was so successfully making Transaging and especially because this is like Him working as a four-higher director for the first time but knocks it out of the park Yeah, it's a fucking best director nomination. It's a big hit. What is the through line? What is this guy's magic? They all kind of identified that weir's big thing is The the clash of two communities budding up against each other even if it isn't dramatic even if it isn't an intense Uh, uh clash the friction, right? Yeah, and that I think is so informed by and obviously in his early Australian films It's very often textual the like origins of Australia as a country Sure, right this weird like combativeness of like who are we and who are these other people and who belongs here more And I think he's just so well He's very well judged in knowing how to balance these things And not using one side or the other as like, um a story alley, you know, it's also interested like in in Like in a group of people who live by their own their own code their own world who like who are kind of removed from the world in some way or another whether it's like, you know Like at a girl school just like in girl land. Yes or You know stuck in on a boat Stuck in like reality world But like these people who aren't kind of closed off in some way or another from life as we know it and then there is a character that um That punctures that world right for in in most of the movies who like acts as the audience like surrogate No, that's a great. Yeah, and whether the sex are like sort of self formed or formed by like unified interest or passion Right or community or tradition or whatever it is Yes, I there is almost always that and and he has like respect For that that's the big part of it. Which I think is like It's not like look at those weirdos But I think that's a big byproduct of someone like growing up in Australia and really spending time litigating As they grow up rather than absolving, you know, like what's going on here Uh, I want to shout out the check actor yon rubesh. I think it's his name who plays the grandpa plays elie Was primarily an odd person. Right. Yeah, he's so fucking good I mean everyone in this movie playing amish. Yeah, you just you don't bad or not You're just like none of it feels like cosplay or just again. These are just guys vigo. Obviously only pops out Oh, shit. It's vigo, but vigo's got an amish look to it. That's a thing He pops out because he's so striking looking even if he didn't become aragorn Uh, but also he's striking in a way that fits perfectly into this film. He's human. Oh Okay I um He's almost I almost just took a deep breath. He's so angry I know like two hours in and I just started doing the the tax omni. I'm sorry. That's also like Man he is the answer of the race of men now. He is in love with love tyler true She's an elf and then cape landed is the queen of the elves. Well, isn't she a different thing? Is she a tree person? Galadriel I'm just letting you guys get this out of your sister before. Uh, so just um, uh, yes. Galadriel is an elf, of course She's in um, uh, Rivendell and high council. Okay Uh, or wait is galadriel and Jesus like this is where like my whole thing with lord of the rings is like i'm Relatively read in on lord of the rings, but not in the way that you know with people who are truly read in right? It's like you've read the bible Listeners yelling at us, but I feel like she's not rivendell because isn't rivendell hugo weaving. No, no That's what I always forget. So so um, she's in la florian She's more of what you would call like I think a wood elf or whatever and uh, elrond who is in uh, Rivendell is more of what you call a high elf. Those are more dnd terms I shouldn't really use them just to say about aragorn. He is man. He is a man. He is a man He's from the race of men. He's all man. If you know what i'm saying But he is descended from the duna dain also known as the new minorians who in lord of the rings are kind of like Slightly more magic e-men. It's why he's very old Aragorn is like already in lord of the rings. He's almost a hundred years old. What what? Again the movie does not touch on these things because peter jackson wisely was like my audience will say what also the fucking age gap discourse Well, no arwin is like hundreds of years old. Okay, she's an elf. I repeat except now i'm flipping the dynamic arwin fucking cradle robin arwin is i think 240 Ish, okay go off queen uh and live how long what is the lifespan of an elf? She lives about 3000 years 3000 oh, okay, that's why the whole thing She's very young too. Yes, so there's no age gap, so I'm relative but if you're going by experience see Okay, but what would aragorn's life expect in seethi? Uh, I'm gonna google this just because i'm not at totally sure but he dies at the age of 210 And he's about he's about 90 in lord of the rings so in that case He's kind of middle age and she's kind of a teenager within their lifespans. So, you know what back on air No, I think it's you know, but that's what lord of the rings look the whole how old are the tree people great question I love how often you bring up the tree I learned about them like three weeks ago. They were Wait, but you surely have seen lord of the rings. I did. I think I saw them In college they did like a back-to-back before return of the king is the third one of the oscar winner, right? So I saw two and three together like in a theater and the tree heavy one two is two towers is heavy on ends Yeah, and and I have read the hobbit and And I I have retained absolutely nothing like you I just my brain will never hold on to them Totally fine and again like as a nerd who is like my avatar. Yeah, totally your brain just right Like but just just you know the whole thing with Eragorn and arwin is that in lord of the rings the book That is mostly buried in appendixes and that was peter jackson being like I fucking we need some fucking ladies in these movies You know what I mean? Like the books are just so light on women. Oh the romance is not it's in the appendices Yeah, but like that's not that's why in the movie whenever they drop in with it. You are kind of like What's up like yeah, because it is just occasionally they'll just be like fyi. I do love you live tyler You are immortal and I am mortal so I know that's kind of an issue. Anyway, I'll see you later I have to go get this ring over to another place, right? You know and it's like I think peter jackson was just striving to like Broaden out as much as he could to include some ladies. I do remember Uh, the first movie comes out. I was uh 12 Yeah, I was uh, what's it 2001 I was 15. So yeah, you were 12 Uh, and I didn't read the books until after I saw the first movie you read all three books I think I read I read hobbit and maybe through two towers. I think I never read return of the king but I uh was very in on the first movie But I remember being very confused by how prominent Blanchett and tyler were in the marketing and then seeing the movie and being like they both have tiny parts And now I get it where they were just like we need to message to people that this isn't some fucking Pie fantasy sausage party jr. Tolkien was like, you know, he wasn't like big on like the interiority of ladies Yes, you know the the romance and the appendices is the most, you know, boy shit. I've ever heard It's a little boy. I mean the rings is kind of the definition of a boy stuff And like, you know, that's what that show uh the amazon show that everyone loves that's universally popular Our favorite right and inexpensive. Yeah, um produced a bargain it 10 times the price never seen it That one tries to you know have a younger galadriel as its main character I think because they again, they're conscious of like we should you know, try to Mine the success of that it does feel like peter jackson made films that were Disproportionately popular with women relative to the books at that time. It's the miracle of those movies Yeah, like people now are just like, yeah, of course lord of the rings is like no no no He really put the camel through the eye of the needle with those things like those books are not easy to adapt They're books You know and like and it's just a lot of information and he kind of just always picked and shows what you need to know And what you don't You know what's even colbert can fill in for you later, right? And he did it perfectly again three more movies exactly everybody I'd love to do those movies one day I do love them and I even defend the hobbits for their sense. God. How long would the episode be though? Well, the tight 90. Yeah the original or the extended 90 weeks We would have to do two cuts of each episode Jesus, okay. Oh my goodness something to look forward to so a witness. Can we talk about the central Romance of witness Can we talk about Harrison Ford dancing? Yeah, how many other times has Harrison Ford danced? Great question. I did not think of it off He does the lombardy in uh in uh frantic. No, I don't know. No, he does like Uh a half shuffle in working girl at the wedding working girl one of his sort of loosest most sort of Yeah, because you know, they he's got a dance with like bitsy or something in order to let um Tess Talk to orin hattratch asked orin asked wait. Who was a senator and who is the character in working girl? Okay, one second one second one second one second Uh orin trash orin trash orin trash is philip bosco in Right and orin hatch was a senator politics that I didn't like right here's the utah senator who would occasionally like do like songs about Eagle soaring as well right here. He had like a kind of yeah. Yeah one of those david Did you just discover the exact same thing? I did that Harrison Ford in fact does dance to grace jones in frantic Oh, yeah, I'm frightened. Yes I'm in a manual seat In this clip that I am watching I don't know if you're watching a griffin. He looks really stressed out Which is of course the vibe of frantic in general that he's kind of a frantic. Yes, right. This is him looking. Yeah, absolutely I was gonna say doesn't he doesn't he dance in temple of doom in the opening big musical sequence But I don't think of him as being trying to he's at the table. He's watching. Yeah, uh, does he dance in the sabrina remake? That's a movie I've never seen but it feels like there could be a dance there But isn't he I'm seeing here. Who else is in him slow dancing with julia or mom, but it might be a very Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, that's also like slow dancing. You can just like step back and forth He's doing some twirls in this. He's acknowledging the rhythm. Yes. Good call. Okay. Oh, he gets down and called the wild He's one. Oh, yeah, and in k19 the widowmaker. There's the uh, he raises the choreograph dancing scene. Yeah, right There was so much space for those guys to really, you know move around. Yeah, uh I don't know cowboys and aliens. Are you dancing that? I might have let's run through every credit. It's been funny This is certainly look empire magazine. I invoke it a lot at this time They used to have at the back page. Yeah an iconic scene Yeah, and it would just be dialogue from the iconic scene It would be you know, it was kind of like a their way of a clip of an iconic scene, right? And usually it would be something it was very dialogue heavy Yeah, fucking, you know something from a kevin smith movie, right? You know, I think something it was like witty an icon them And then I remember one time they did this scene I hadn't seen witness yet and it's basically just explaining a scene where they danced to a sam cook song So it didn't pop in terms of dialogue sure But it was stuck in my head where I was like wow that scene must rock If they were like put it on the back page even though it's not funny And then I watched the movie and I was like, yeah, like this is One of the like it's like the perfect level of like aching romance not to I mean just the right amount of charm right amount of goofiness and I you know the the editing where they like paw there are a couple moments where they stop and they're like looking at each other And you know, everyone is just like oh my god the world's you know, everything's back to explode And then they laugh again I was also trying there's a smile and laugh that Harrison Ford does sort of at the end of it that is like Goofy and sincere and maybe the only time I've seen him deflate himself in that way but like normally he is uh self deprecating and Like a little ironic and like undercutting himself or and like a little rye that stuff does quietly Yeah, amp up his high status. Yeah, and so but this is just kind of like he's he's laughing He's like I just you know, I was dancing and like being sweet and it's a really really really big Smile it deflates him and that it makes him human That's so much of Harrison Ford's thing is playing everything very close to the chest and in that moment You're like this guy isn't holding anything back anymore. Yeah, it feels like he is just present transparent with her. Yeah Uh, he's so fucking uh good He is and uh that's pretty good. I love him so much so Why don't you marry john bookman? No, I just like uh Anytime we get to cover Harrison Ford movie on this podcast you do like Especially at his peak you're just like one of the best to ever do it in that exact way that is always kind of taken For granted in its time even when he is basically like Carrying half of the industry on his back. There was a thing. I was watching all the stuff on the excellent Arrow 4k set but john seal legendary DP this was his first Uh time working with we're not his last That's what I was about to say with ferris we're about to do tomorrow record mosquito coast, which is our next episode as well Which is right? Harrison really pointedly trying to be like I won't be charming Harrison Ford I am going to take you into darkness We'll talk about all and it's the big debate of that movie of like right is he the guy for that right? Right, I think he corrects afterwards and is like I went too far Audiences just don't want that for me and he doesn't really try anything like that again Like john or you'll play flawed guys, but not right but john book becomes kind of the range of like where you can go Before people start to reject what he's uh doing uh, but the great john seal was talking about how Visually this movie is very inspired by like vermere and the dutch masters in the use of light and You know having scenes lit by the sun through the window Without trying to be too controlled and painterly about it So there are a couple that's seen when he is like in having his literal fever dream And she is sitting there watching him And she like that is a recreation of another recreation, but that is like framed and lit, you know lit in such a way that it was like Oh, right. I also too, you know read the goldfinch or whatever The early sort of sitting in Yeah, absolutely, of course and a movie that was electrifying Oh That movie kept me so awake griffin the most I was so very awake throughout They made one mistake at the box office with that film, which was not Caffeine the movie Goldfinch, what is this? Yeah, you call caffeine the movie everyone would have showed up and they would have left happy and awake So, um, but john seal talks about working really fast, right? That he likes boxing himself in that he likes likes being instinctual And he also feels like you get better results out of the actors because they don't have to sit around and wait that he's very Collaborative in that sense. Yeah, hi. La Pone was talking about being someone who also graduated from rulliard And then was doing tv and film and was like this sucks They call me to set and then there's another fucking 40 minutes of adjustment. I'm losing my flow. I'm losing my energy And that she was like this set rules that harrison ford is all brass tacks and loves it And they were like motoring each other, right? And he said I really try not to direct actors in a way that some other dps will Where they'll jump in and be like if you could just do this, yeah, it would help my shot Yeah, you know not like character motivation directing like we're does but the sort of like Is there any way you can do this five inches higher or 30 faster or whatever it is? And he said I try not to do that but harrison the term he used harrison has such good motor skills That I would go harrison and he would just go just tell me what it is and i'll do it Like forget the chaffa. Yeah He would go if it's this and this and he goes got it and then he would do it perfectly However many times he needed it. I mean no wonder they yeah, uh, right, you know Work together again. Like I think about I mean the way harrison ford moves in move, you know, like and suddenly he's like spinning around Or suddenly he's over here He does seem to have like a real sense of not just where the camera is but where he needs to it's it's motor skills Was a perfect way of putting it because i'm like I I get that he is a great visual storyteller That he understands that part of his job as an actor is how to carry the audience through the story I understand that he has incredible screen presence and understanding of the medium and how to pop on it But motor skills is like right that's not even like it's like movie athleticism, right? And he was like it's not something he like learned it's not something he was trained to do It's truly just he's actually built in a way that makes him better at processing that And they were saying that like he was really fucking nervous At the beginning of filming the movie that he hadn't made that many films that he was not seen as a series Actor that the movies he was in had so much spectacle around them That this was the first real test of like you are the thing the whole time and he's beautiful And up until this point every movie he had been a part of people were like well, that's the magic of spielberg That's the magic of lucas Or blade runner didn't work, right? Um that same morning daytime interview the woman's like is there any movie of yours that you want to apologize for? And he's like, you know not every movie works But you try your best and she was like interesting because I thought you were gonna say blade runner And you're like right at this moment times people were like blade runner was black adam for him That it was like the stain on his career, but that he felt like play runner amanda does not feel like a huge amanda movie And it's you know, I'm more of an alien person than blade runner in the ridley scott canon for sure um, I'm maybe even more of a house of Gucci person then that but you know, I I I live in los angeles and There is like a certain type of there's a certain type of weather or day or even building where I'm just like Oh, it's blade runner hours and it's I mean the visual Like language of it. It's what it's also is one of those things where it's like You learned the way you learned that visual look before you saw the movie for people of our generation Like it just invented it. So Yeah, I admire it like do I fire it up and sit through the whole thing? Yes No, but you know whatever the same as you were it is never been one of my movies Every couple years I'll throw on a cut and give it another shot And I always respect it more than I love it and yet I think about it constantly. Yeah I am also like shawn youngk is a real Uh pain point for me. I I have a similar I'm a little allergic to her. I'm a little allergic to shawn youngk too, but not in blade runner where she works as she works as it Yeah I still am watching it like I think I'm like still so mad about no way out, which I know Chronologically comes after several years later Several years later, but it's like where I started with shawn youngk and I'm just like this is I'm gonna lose my mind and then Uh, then I'm just watching her and I'm just like please come on. Yeah. Yeah That feeling of like growing being a 90s kid And then discovering the 80s shawn young cannon and being like how did this happen? How did she get so big and work in every genre? I mean she has a presence She does and there is like and no way out. You need something You need a loose cannon. You know, she's surely something off kilter. Yeah Um, yeah, I don't know. I'm not being very feminist, but anyway, but yeah, blade runner. They did good But I think like kelly mcgillis it because Top gun is such a silly part and is such a tom cruise vehicle and she exists just to serve him And then the accused is a movie where it's just like well jody foster completely takes control of that, right? She's the story of the movie for sure and kelly mcgillis was offered that part first Right, and she was like I think it's more interesting to do this. She's gonna be a huge. Yeah, she's top And then it's like everyone forgets it's just jody foster fucking sweeps the awards It's jody fosters star moment too. It's like, you know jody foster. Obviously, right her career is explode. She's good Yes, jody foster good actress Very good actress, but I think kelly mcgillis is is kind of like History doesn't give her enough credit. This is the one you watch She got both a globe and a BAFTA nomination for this But the whole reason she doesn't get an Oscar nomination is a parent in looking at I think the globe's nominated her in supporting and BAFTA nominated her and lead Yeah, and I have to imagine this is a performance that got caught But I imagine they may have run her in supporting because she was new right like the classic didn't pick aside and so she Didn't have an 85 is that terms of endearment? Um, no, so 85 is I mean, it's a movie you love We all love it. It's the movie of it's the best movie of all time. It's called out of africa Oh, I mean red forgot the last laugh. I suppose William hurt beats ford Um, so William hurt beats ford for kiss of the spider woman. Yeah, oh sure and Yeah, it's I mean, it's kind of a bad oscar year. It's the color purple year And uh, you know, you could argue for that in best actress or whatever, but no we had to take the trip to the mountiful It would be should have won Oh, yeah And then our out of africa kind of sweeps the text witness wins editing and screenplay which are two very Sensible wins for it because it's such a like well constructed efficient, you know our 40 minute movie Would know it's more than an hour. We're like close hour 55. Yeah, but like, you know what I mean? Like where you're like, yay. Yeah, out of africa gets all the big sumptuous like scores Cinematography art direction, you know all that shit and then they just hand out these odd for acting oscars. William hurt Donna Michi Geraldine page and then angelica houston and pritzze's honor, which I have said before Is a performance where you're like, oh did houston pop off and you watch it and you're like, I mean, she's fine She's fine. She's all right, but it was this like sort of like silence the haters win where they were right? It was like, yeah, she told her dad she was gonna do it and she did it right even though he didn't like her Donna Michi. I also like it was like a when I saw cocoon for the first time. I was like that's the fourth performance I would nominate and supporting actor out of this movie But like it's another weird one of like no one else Up for the award is that I mean it obviously should have been Christopher Lloyd back to the future that should have been his Oscar. Yeah, sure. Absolutely. I mean, who do I have? This is a weird year. Is this the same year as karate kid where they nominate pat marita? No, no, okay the nominees for supporting actor if you must know I'm cost marita brandor. They're out of africa, of course William Hickey and pritzze's honor. He's a billion years old. You know hat tip. Yeah, Robert. Robert lozian jagged edge Subtle is he in jagged edge? Plays a subtle and restrained guy Wait, who is he Robert lozia? Yeah, I have not seen jagged edge. I know I'm like reading. Okay. Who is he? Look, let's look at He plays sam ransom Okay, I know um He's a private detective Okay, as he I guarantee you he yells the only thing I honestly remember about jagged edge is that jeff bridges his house is like kind of my dream house So and he does look very handsome. It's it's it's a beautiful like spanish style home Sure, um, it's like by the throne throwing the edge. Yeah, take it to the edge. Yeah, call me bono. You're gonna guess anyway I gotta find the edge And eric robertson runaway train great performance very Uh, big performance in that movie. That's a big movie. Yeah, but you know, it does kind of feel like they went to donimich He just kind of like well, I guess he's a legend Right. He's old. Yeah Those old people, you know, like it's a year of out of africa and like though these old like gerald and page donimich Does not feel like a year where the youngs are like pumped up by the oscars 80s acting wins More so than any other decade have a ton of that. We're like things where as a 15 year old we're cleaning up, you know Mistakes of the 50s a 15 year old trying to like fill in oscar gaps And i'm watching these movies and being like that performance one and then you go to wikipedia and you're like Oh, it won because of shit from 40 years earlier I mean even this being like the sydney pollock Coronation very bizarre is is really lame. It's just the wrong movie for it that movie stinky Yeah, I don't want to get away from the horniness of of witness because I feel like we need to let we need to fully Explore this a little bit. Can you talk about Harrison Ford is like your ultimate? I think he's probably the hottest. Yeah, like I mean, you know, like the last solid dude. Um and and some of that is I don't They're restraint the self deprecation. They're like, I don't want to be doing this, you know is uh, it's appealing Uh to me personally. That's like that's my flavor of that's that's the vibe that i'm going for And there's a still waters run deep thing with him where you you never sense unlike a lot of other 80s macho Movie stars there is always clearly a sensitivity that is barely being covered Yes, though. I'm also not that worried about he's he's soft There's like a soft side. Yeah, but there's it's it's not an emo thing going on. No, you know Yeah, but it's like i'm not gonna have to take care of him at any point. Yes, but he's also not playing Dirty hair like he's not gonna do the dishes totally right. It's it's a kind of perfect balance Yeah, it's like he he he manages it very well I mean he is also just you know classically so handsome. He is like Early 40s, which is very unfairly when most men really come into their own And I mean look at that. Yeah, you know, I'm just waiting the haircut is good Yeah, you'll get there. What if I turn 40 and I gain six inches? Oh six inch summer. Yeah six inch something I'm like, oh i'm hot now. Yeah, okay um I for me there is it's kind of still working girl sure is Is the hottest because he's doing a little more screwball I was gonna say how much of that is character and performance versus yeah, like the setting there The setting and the yes, he's kind of unstoppable in this. He's like, but it's like he's in the same phase of life So purely visually there they are yes, you're right together. Yeah, um and He it's and he has shirtless scenes in both, you know, and he just really like in the 80s Like we didn't have macro boys in the same way. We didn't have protein shakes like we weren't optimizing and I I preferred that this is a year after temple of doom Which as we talked about a lot in that episode At the time the press was you will not believe how big Harrison Ford got for temple of doom Yeah, and you look at the movie now and you're like this is maybe the biggest anyone should ever get We've gotten so out of whack now That it's not that he looks skinny But that the idea of like the shape you get into for a movie and he's still basically in that shape in this Where you're just like he's just kind of perfect physical form without looking like a mutant Exactly, right He just he looks healthy and like he can run someone down or like, you know find a rifle in a in a Large silo of corn You know who drowns in the silo of corn who angus mckinnis plays that character, I believe and do you know who he is? Grif no gold leader. This is go Leader beginning my trench run now star wars. He's I once you said trench run. I was like, oh, yeah I know who that is. Yeah, Tracy. Let's just few men. Yeah, Tracy. Let's just like snoring So he gets so hopefully we got his ass So hopefully he was on that episode and we got his ass. Yeah, wait, so he's starting his trench run Does that mean he's on the good side or the bad side? He's on the good side. He's gold leader He he pilots the y-wing and he is really stoic Okay, the whole thing with gold leader is he's the guy who's like really really measured even when they're getting their f**king Y-wings blown to bits. He rocks great performance. Is he an alexis relative? No, his name is Angus mckinnis. Oh, okay. Mckinnis. I was hearing it differently, but I think he's of scottish descent Yes, um, yeah, great great actor. This is gold leader dutch vander Yeah, that is that right, of course later. They told us all their names and the books and such But he's gold leader to me and he's in rogue one because they splice in that footage, which I love We love it. I really do it actually like I love it so much more than the f**king CGI necromancy No, that's what you do you splice in just footage that you have of them just going this is gold leader and you're like, yeah That's all I need. That's all I need. Just show me the old thing. Um, I mean I have a gift for you. Oh my goodness It is a shirtless Harris court action figure. This is real. Yeah, wait, what's this from? Thank you so much. Oh my goodness Okay, so what is he? He's carrying a spear. You can throw out the other pieces that make it more specific This is supposed to be in temple of doom. I was gonna say this looks like indiana johnson. This is wearing khaki pants It's when he's hypnotized and he quickly turns evil Do I want to indi? I guess if I want a shirtless harrison, that's what I want. But like do I want an indi sans hat? David, I agree with you. There's a reason i'm gifting this action figure to amanda You're gifting a truck because you're her friend, but I'm like I don't need this and I think this could have some specific value for you This is really huge actually because my kids have gotten or nox is the older has gotten to the phase where he wants to like He has all his trucks But he like he wants someone to drive the truck, right? You know so and we do have some Harrison ford in temple of doom sized trucks. I think yeah Hell yeah, so I'm gonna get rid of this figure. Get rid of that and he's got a weird like uh sash Yeah, but like do you know how quickly this goes into someone's eyes? Right? Yeah, yeah, you know run around with it You don't want your kids running around with this. Sometimes it's good to learn the lessons string sash as well Then it's just shirtless harrison ford with a weird marking on his forehead Yeah, it's interesting how the his legs are attached to his body. So he has a lot of joint Flexibility, which is great, but that also means that the the nature of his pants It looks like he's wearing a khaki diaper and then unavoidable with a lot of these action figures Yeah, which um the diapering. Yeah guys you're using terms that are constant on the message board the diaper effect is a real He is plague of the action really really agile like it's like he's focused on mobility. You know Yes, and he's he's very shirtless. I do think shoulders moving well I do think it accurately captures the appeal of shirtless harrison ford in this area. It really does It's gotten his body and he's not too swole. No, it's it's kind of correct. Thank you so much for this gift Look at honestly apart from red hulk, of course president hulk nothing but respect who is what is the swole list Harrison ford ever got it's simple. It is probably template. At least he's the most shirt. Yeah, he has some scars on his back Yeah, he gets whipped in that movie. I mean like I understood what they were but explaining that to a three-year-old is going to be Can I give you my pro tip? Yeah nail polish remover. Oh So I'd say just cute nail polish remover. Okay. I assumed as much Yeah, I you could do that and then there's the weird mark on the forehead. That's I think part of his possession Oh, sure. If you if you dare to do five minutes of activity on this Yeah, I can do that They they made a bunch of figures when the last indiana jones came out of all the previous films But they made like 20 different versions of indiana jones Versus the supporting characters to witness. I just I'm feeling a little bit of stress on like have we talked enough about witness the film witness witness witness witness witness I Guess are there any scenes I do want to talk about I do want to talk about the boobie scene Oh, okay. Yes, of course to put it in the most respectful Okay, because like the stages of their sort of Relationship whatever is like right initial. He's helping conversational Her kind of Laughing at him right a little bit of familiarity than the dancing then her Kind of letting him look at her naked like this sort of like this like quiet So electric about that's right and then the kissing in the rain is the end of it. Like diehard guy shows up and has been He's circling like a Fuck yeah from like but like he has no chill. He is at the funeral How many ladies are around? Like I get it. Yeah, but so he shows up Yeah, and seems like a nice guy like he's not a villainous character totally But she is not feeling it. She's just not feeling it and so Harrison Ford makes himself scarce Yes, and then she goes and finds him which is like a and then he's he's doing carpentry So There we go. Yeah, so that I mean that scene is always important to me in there The community even acknowledges their tension. Oh, I think it's like so palpable Travels, right? But also they just they want to keep things closed loop They want good enough to just come in there and just like immediately get remarried I I also we're said that they they were really struggling in casting that part His captain director suggests good nav He's like a dancer like I don't we need a real actor for this and she was like just meet with him I just saw him perform. I got a vibe, right? And meet with him and is like the look was obviously right. Yeah, his energy was so like gentle And his smile was so disarming and he said the big math problem He was trying to solve what that casting is the end of my movie is going to be Harrison Ford driving off and this guy walking towards the house And the audience has to feel like that isn't a death sentence for her. They have to feel like If she ends up with him, that's not a bad situation Right and so even while there's the intention internal in the movie You need to still feel vaguely good enough about that guy and he was like it truly just was when he smiled It worked and I was like if I can put that on screen four times And he can be himself and just maintain this Kind of like sensitive energy were good, right? Yeah Uh, yeah, I mean Uh, he is good and good enough He's good enough. Yes. Absolutely. Great kid performance Lucas Haas isn't extraordinary. Look the the thing with him is He became a good actor like right. He's a good adult actor. I like Lucas Haas all the time You watch this performance and Correctly like what the movie wants you to think is the reaction you have which is like this is a kid They Amish kid they found somehow right they plucked this kid out of out of like the darkest Like, you know most obscure part of the like the country like there's no way like there's no way this is an actor Yeah, like he's so natural. Yes. He's so beautiful. Like he just looks like a drawing And like his eyes are so incredible and he's so sweet Can I he's such a cute can I tell the weird story about directing the bathroom scene? Uh, sure. Yeah, so uh, We were was like very sensitive of like he's very young. This is a disturbing scene. He's a precocious kid. He's smart He's read the script. He seems to understand it, but that's very different from actually seeing it Of course, right and he was like and I I wanted to make the bathroom seem very violent and upsetting So I was very like set on I'm not going to show it to him. We're going to shoot this separately on two different days and I just need him to act it because I don't want him to have that in his mind um and They're shooting the Lucas Haas day And we're it's like he's just not getting it Yeah, and he goes to him and he's like Lucas no pressure, but you're like letting down the movie Jesus is the way he words it and Lucas Haas clearly remembers it like verbatim Well, he and we're tell the same story with the same wording and Lucas Haas as like a little grown-up says like Well, the problem is it's pretty hard to stare at like a taped X at the wall Yeah, and act really scared And weir says to him weir says welcome to fucking hollywood Bitch roll it again. No, what did he say? No, he says you're letting down the movie we need to figure something out and he says here's what I suggest I need you to look at that X and I need you to think of the most scared you've ever been by anything in your life And don't tell me what it is. Sure, but just when I call action make that the X. What if he said it's right now? This is the most And he was like and he did it and he just nailed it immediately sure and he'd never revealed what it was And he won't reveal now. No sure spiders or something. Yeah, probably spiders fucking spiders. Yeah So for my daughter would be when Ursula gets too huge in the little mermaid. That is really scary That's her number one. Like we're not we're not gonna watch that. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah Yeah, I don't like her when she's very huge I want to go back to the bathing scene for a second because there's a moment in it that I think is kind of like the perfect grace note within this film Which is uh, you know, he walks up. She turns around She exposes herself. It's like building with like thriller attention what we're seeing these extreme close-ups of like Sponge on her shin. Right. Yeah, we're aware that she's naked But we're not seeing her naked body and you're seeing Harrison Ford come upstairs And you know the confrontation is about to happen and you as the audience are wondering what's gonna come of it, right? Right and he walks up. She turns around you cut out to like a cowboy shot So you're seeing her topless for the first time and aware that this is what he's seeing And then it's extreme close-up on Harrison Ford's face and he looks at her and with like incredible motor control Just kind of throws his gaze down Like he looks and then makes the statement in right if you're not gonna turn back around I'm gonna do the gentlemanly thing And nothing is said. It's great. Right. It's incredible. I mean the Peter weir does not love dialogue as much as other people that's but like the amount that is shown rather than said in this and this movie is I think Amazing and also one of its like great achievements. Absolutely, you know And even if it was kind of nothing dialogue like oh my god, I'm sorry like it wasn't full monologue It's so much more powerful for it to be like full fucking like passion of the Joan Of just like this is just them looking at each other and cutting back and forth between them Yes, and then it's like her kind of disappointment that she's not looking that he's not looking any longer Even though she knows he's probably right and then he follows it up the next day with the line Which is just such an exquisite like what's supposed to happen, right? But also the whole movie in 10 words, right? It's like the perfect Harrison Ford thing of he's gonna say the least he can possibly say Right and he even I was watching this on like a low volume last night because I didn't want to keep up everyone else in the apartment And the the the second half like or you'd have to leave he like almost whispers So I had to go and like turn it back up. I was like no, no, no, I need this, you know, I need the full thing Um, we think they don't sleep together in actuality. It does. No, they don't no They just kiss boil over and they kiss in the middle of a field. Yeah That's that's the extent of them letting something happen and they almost immediately are like again Confronted with what's the end game here, right? But you know, we're all adults, you know, which is like the right the theme of this movie. We're adults But also your farm. I've got my shitty Pennsylvania, Philadelphia apartment, whatever Also, if they didn't kiss they would maybe explode though Right Something's gotta have a real spell past And they're essentially like eating each other's faces. It's like that's the nature of the kiss They're kissing the shit out of each other, but she you get the impression. It's just so Good that it's not about how this life oppresses her, but it's also not about how this life is perfect for her She does have longing for more, but she's not sure she has longing for that like entire divorce from this community She has her that does clearly matter to her. She has her version of the maybe we should call a max women's speech with her father I mean, which was perfected in the film X-Men dark phoenix of where she says maybe we should call the max women It took 10 movies and we finally got there. She asked the real questions and gave the real answers That seems a real pack it up. Hollywood on everything. Yeah, just pack it up. Let's stop making movies. Let me let me put it this way I don't think it's unrelated That a global pandemic happened within six months of that line Oh boy. Um, yeah, uh, that's wonderful But the scene with her father where he's kind of like I'm seeing too much chemistry Right. Yeah, and you cannot allow yourself to be a ruined woman, right? And then he like You know, it's one of the few expository pieces of writing where he's like you will be shunned And it means that I can't do this and I can't you know, can't do that And and it's like it's like real stakes. Um, but somehow doesn't also in it like matters to them. So it doesn't make it seem like bizarre or uh, you know Weird like just like, you know creepy it still has respect for what's going on Like that their rules are important to them and so it's like really important that he be still be able to follow them I love that the plotting of this movie is they immediately all the dirty cops immediately know what he did Yeah, he went to fucking Amish and then they just cannot There's no mystery search for him because they don't have phones. They call them closest precinct And that the that cop is awesome. He's like great. He's like there are so many laps, you know And I love that guy. He's so great. But I do love that guy too. Like that guy's job is just like, yeah I don't know man. They don't have phones feet up on his desk being like Nothing I can do bro. Good luck to you Right and they're like this is about cop killing. He's like, I don't give a shit I mean, he doesn't say that when he goes into town. He calls On a pay phone to check on his partner finds out that he died That's why of course, that's why he's right. We'll be especially full of rage So then he calls the chief is like you can't trace this call, but fuck you The chief is having a barbecue. Joseph's are so good in that shit because like Joseph's are really good at playing a guy who is In over his head. Yes. He just wanted some speed money. Yeah, right? He didn't really want to go out there be murdering like cops left and right Okay, so 22 million dollars a lot of money. Yeah, it's a lot of money and like this isn't the 80s So it's in Ford salary. Okay, but it's like so because you sold some confiscated speed or like Importing the barrels like the confiscated speed and everyone's buying their speed from Philadelphia. So yeah, that philly speed but like how How is he using that money without people noticing? Well, it's a great question. I don't know It is a nice house and they have the cash economy that in those days Yeah, he's got a lot of like suddenly like you show up with a new You know car like aren't people gonna notice it is a flourish I love in this film that when he calls His wife picks up. Yeah, and she's immediately panicked. Do you see it on her face? It's not in text, but it's So she's got the hint in her brain of like has something been going on. I think she knows I watch it and see it as she knows what's paying for all of Right, right exactly because she picks up and it's immediately like This is the guy who's circling in right and it's all about to fall a beautiful suburban home Right and even when she tells her husband to pick up the phone She's very slow to put the phone back on the receiver. Yeah, you see her consider. Do I want to listen in? But like more broadly I am like, where do you What's your strat with like the 22 million that came out of nowhere if you're like the police sergeant or whatever Like what is the it's a terrible plan. It is sort of what is his undoing? I mean, I like that the way he's able to defeat him You know, he can only corn one guy to death, right? He corns a cold leader. He corns him Yeah, I'm so glad we're bringing it because explain what happens and I did want to talk about this this scene The corns I don't know not the no the corning is good The corns don't later. He shoots Danny Glover shoots Danny Glover with a big old shotgun Danny Glover probably the most straight-up villainous character in that we watch him murder someone else But then he's out of bullets. Yeah, he's got a corn gold leader. Joe. He's right And joseph summer, uh, you know the chief takes, you know, but through a series of you know, lukas haas Is trying to help or whatever he tells lukas haas to run to protect himself. Lucas haas doesn't he doesn't He rings the bell the whole community comes and he's got this boy And he's doing the whole like I'm gonna kill you know, like, you know And harrison forges like you're gonna kill a kid I mean, right like you know, there's this like tension of let me correct you. Yeah, no go ahead He has harrison ford then they walk out of the barn, right? Then he sees that everyone's there, right? And joseph summer's still like i'm gonna fucking shoot you right and he's holding the shotgun and harrison ford jumps over to their side And harrison ford is the one who's like you're gonna shoot her you're gonna shoot him You're gonna shoot the kid you're gonna shoot the kid and then he grabs He grabs the kid in front of him and I have a note Okay, okay, right. This is right. This is the thing. It's not the chief, right? It's a book, right? And magillus like freaks Listen, I think john book like everything he does spot on except so you think this is just him gambling a little too much I I would not put the kid in front of me and in general I don't think that you want to give the visual Of you ever putting a child between you and a shotgun But I guess sure but I guess book is the only one who knows this guy everyone else doesn't know this guy Also, he does he's basically like you're a fucking, you know doesn't quite do things by the book He's like White collar, right, you know, you're yeah, you don't get your hands dirty You get these other guys gold leader and danie glover to get your hands I forget what the wording isn't better than what i'm about to say But there's the scene where he says to him the sort of like lost your way thing, right? Where he's like so what happened lost your way And someone's like, what are you talking about and he's like remember we used to say that about dirty cops Yeah, right and I think he's calling his bluff on that when you're saying like what's his plan with the 22 million dollars What he's calling the bluff on that moment is just like this is unsustainable. Yes. What are you gonna do? They're fucking 20 witnesses now. Well, that's the other are you gonna be a guy who shoots kids And then you're gonna have to shoot more people to cover this up. I mean, I mean, there's too many witnesses It's never gonna end. It's the title of the movie. Yes. He maxes out on witnesses Yes, like he really overloads but the larger point is like how much are you willing to do to preserve having 22 million dollars? Because it's never you're never gonna get to the other side of this. You're never gonna be clean. It's over. It's over That's I think I think those are great points. It's high risk what he's doing. It's it. I just I I think grabbing the kid I agree. I'd rethink it. That's my note. Now. Can I give my argument for it? Not for the move but for the move within the movie I think the function of that is him kind of recognizing Oh, I could never stay here that like the fucking Three dirty cops show up and he immediately goes back into old school john book mode Sure, and he's doing fucking action movie moves jumping around right and he's being frivolous in that kind of way Yeah, he's not even playing this is not a plane. He's not being plain And it's like it clocks something in him and in her of just like I I adjusted to this For longer than I thought I could and yet so quickly I go back to being 80s movie Well, as he says in the scene when he fights the dude You know the grandpa's like it's not our way. He's like, but it's my way It's already bubbling back up inside him and then his you know kind of farewell speech to lucas haas happens entirely MOS yeah, you see them in a distance. She's watching them have whatever the emotional talk is that we don't hear a syllable Of we understand but something has happened and then he's gonna have the totally kind of Silent goodbye and also you be careful out there among them. English is just a perfect kiss off Like where he's like, you know, he knows he's giving something up. Yeah Yeah, no, I I think part of the point is that even though it works out. He fucks up in that final moment Sure, okay, that the fact that it works out isn't actually a feather in his cap It's what you're saying though. Even if he fucks up or it's just like his presence is just a fundamental problem. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, can't be solved Too bad. I bet he's really good at sex. Um Just that much anger, you know, there's just something there probably Yeah, I mean I agree. You know, that's our energy. Yeah, no, he's good with his hands. We know that for a fact We do isn't also like that's when Carrie Fisher finally You know wrote the autobiography and was like, yes, we had an affair and she was just like and Harrison knew what he was doing Like wasn't that the review? Yeah, what better? I mean, he was a good deal older than her But isn't that the exact review you want in life? Yeah He knew what he was doing It was the 70s. It was fine. They don't wear bras in space, you know, it's nowhere near as bad as our one in air I originally When Harrison says goodbye, there's a long dialogue scene where he's explaining why he's Jeffrey Katzenberg has had a production impairment at that point flies out and says like why are we cutting this? Yeah, and Peter Weir explains the scene to him and is like it's and he was like, okay. I think that'll work, you know, so like They successfully kind of bat off whatever sort of over explaining studio. No, these stuff could have Hampered this movie. I think a lot of that was really like ford being Completely in line with him and using his movie stardom like as as a shield. Yeah Um, there's a great thing that john seal says where he was worried about working on this movie and peter weir Was trying to talk him into it And he was like heard all these stories about people and they go to hollywood and it chews them up and it spits them out You're fighting the studio all the time. We got this a-list movie star and peter weir said think of it this way We're making an australian film. I am committed to preserving this being an australian film We're just going to be working with a lot of people with funny accents But it speaks to this where peter weir was just like my compass is set. I know what my language is as a filmmaker I'm not going to fucking bend to these types of notes that will pull this away from being the kind of film. I respect um Another thing to say of course is that uh Roger ebert loved this movie when it came out. It was a big hit this movie was a Kind of hit that doesn't exist anymore. Uh, it doesn't get to number one until it's fifth weekend. Yeah Uh, sort of just chugs along roger ebert was like masterpiece and it's a spring release and gets like eight oscar nominations a year later Not even spring february 1985. Yeah, pauline kale hated it. She is in her true grumpy era at that point mid mid tally 80s But she's basically just like pardon me with all this farm bullshit. You know, like it just hates it She also bodies uh blood simple in that review as well in the same review. Yeah, she just like dry buys Bulls just like casually is like and those co-embrothers will never amount to anything But it like fully accomplishes what harrison ford wanted it to he of course immediately is so in love with the experience of working with Weir that he's like What do you got next and he's like my fucking mosquito coast right? I've been trying to make this thing He's like great both of them miss the oscars because they go shooting right into filming mosquito coast They're like keep it going. I think they were also surprised. I think this was not necessarily seen as an oscar No, especially like that far off in advance um And when we bemoaned the sort of like cowardice of a list movie stars I hate cowards This is the thing we miss right that like you look at chris evans I am thrilled that he's finally doing smaller things right? Yeah, but just that but is fully admitting like I made bad movies Right. Yeah, but it's like what's the point of being captain america if you're not doing shit like this Which harrison ford was like I got indiana jones and fucking han solo I got a stretch right right and now it's become a binary thing of like either you're doing jumanji or the smashing machine Like you were either doing yeah obvious tent pole or you're making something like controlled Smaller I know but that's right to get the award this ends up getting ford nasker nomination But what he's trying to do is just make grown-up entertainment But it's like why why can't we have 21 bridges which wasn't that long ago? Which was that interesting thing where chadwick was like that's the exact one I was gonna bring up right and you look at it now and it's like Disappointing that chadwick only has 10 movies and one of them is 21 bridges And that he couldn't find his version of that that was closer to witness level But it's the right instinct and none of these guys fucking do this It's what's aggravated even really like make genre move, you know like things like that, you know a cop movie or it's also It's on the studios. Yeah, but it's either like massive or tiny Yeah And you want them to be like no what I gotta do is find a good script and get a good director A proper budget and support to make an actual movie But then presumed innocent like is just now literally remade as a tv show All these things are tv shows instead of movies. Right. I guess these guys do that It is crazy presumed innocent mosquito coast literally Harrison Ford movies of this era Apple tv is like can we stretch it out? Yeah, yeah, what's the next one? I don't know frantic, you know, like I don't I mean All right, so box office February 8th 1985 Number one of the box office has been number one for I imagine two months now I fucked this up. I spent 15 minutes getting this wrong. I think on the blood simple episode So I know it now. What is it? It's Beverly Hills cop, right? Yeah Beverly Hills cop, which is the runaway sensation from Christmas time or even one of the highest grossing movies ever Right and then witness opening a solid number two to four point five million dollars. It's going to make 65 domestic about a hundred plus worldwide. Yeah 120 I think yeah Number three at the box office is another Holdover from awards season. I mean Beverly Hills cop wasn't award see but you know, you know, but it was a big oscar player It was a big oscar player it won Three academy awards and was nominated for best picture. It is a very serious drama about very real bad things the killing fields It is the killing fields the laugh riot of 1984 And not a bad movie. Have you seen has anyone seen the killing? It's a very sober okay drama about a real thing It's not life changing in my opinion, but it's pretty good. It is funny to When you watch things from that time killing fields was used as shorthand for like Serious depressing number one kind of person who watches too many 80s sitcoms It's like it kind of held the Schindler's list position until Schindler's list. I mean, it's literally called the killing fields Yeah, I was gonna say it's in the title. Yeah Um, I always think of the movie the milk of sorrow which was a like a foreign film from a few like that seemed like the number one Like two to the milk of sorrow, please. I hear this is good Can I buy a one-way ticket to bummer's? um Number four at the box office is another awards-y film from 1984 uh that came out december that was You know nominate for best picture and was like a big deal But it's the final film of like a great legend and it's like it's kind of from another era Well, it's not prissy's honor now Uh It's a fine film of great director And it's kind of from a different era. Give me the genre Uh British epic shit. Oh is it um, uh, it's the david lean one. Yes, which i'm gonna get the title wrong It's not a river. No, it's uh fucking Uh, uh, it's the judy davis one. Why am I blanking on the title? The film is called at a judy davis is indeed in it a passage to indeed. Oh Right with alkanis and brown face being normal one of my favorite anecdotes of all time The judy davis fighting with david lean on the set of the film and she says why should I listen to you? What have you done and he said I directed Lawrence of arabia and judy davis's responses. I mean, what have you done lately? Hey, man? Points were made points were made what is And this uh, this is also out of africa year. Uh, right out of africa will be coming out later out of africa Oh, okay, but it's a different awards here, right? Well, we're in the earth. We're in february. So we're getting a lot left over some Right, what are you asking about? I was asking um, what if you got what is out of africa adapted from a book? A novel uh by caron blixon that I think was about her life Okay, so it's not also an e-m forster. No adaptation. It just has more of a colonial vibes. Okay And i'm seeing here the wikipedia page for out of africa was supposedly written by chat gpt, which is i've never seen This warning on a wikipedia before so this contains hallucinated information But I understand it because that movie is too boring for someone to actually summarize They fall asleep. They were like, I don't know chat gpt film that blanks here The wikipedia like I assume they were in africa and they get out or whatever The previous wikipedia just dissolved into zz zz zz zz zz Yeah, number five of the box offices a film. I don't know it is apparently a comedy film It stars dug mckian chris nash kathryn mary stewart and kelly preston. I recognize one of those names Well, that's not helping me a ton. Is this the movie mistriff? There you go. Wow Mistriff. The fuck is that? Kelly Preston does some important work in that film. Oh, I see. I've never seen it. Okay. Is she being uh, is she being sexy in that movie in some way? She's quite yeah, but so I yeah, I have no idea. I took a guess that it was a kelly Preston teen comedy And that's the one I know interesting. Uh, yeah, I just don't know it's set in the 50s. Yeah, it's about mistriff Looks like kind of like an american graffiti rip-offy kind of thing like a hot rod really horny Um, so mistriff is number five number six is a film called the falcon in the snowman. Okay Which I feel like is I mostly know is like a box office game title, but I think it's martin sheen. No, shan penne Yes, shan penne. It's one of his early. Timothy Hutton. Yeah. Yeah It's like a spy drama. Yeah, uh number seven new this week is heaven help us which is the sort of like Like catholic like kevin dill and andrew mccarthy patrick dempsey like a bunch of catholic boys at catholic school being naughty Oh, wow. I've never seen it. That sounds fun. Maybe it is maybe it rules I can tell you donald suvle and plays a character called brother thaddeus sounds perfect. I bet you he's grumpy I assume they better play pranks on that motherfucker Uh number eight. It's just interesting how I gave you a bunch of really famous movies and now i'm giving you like forgotten Number eight is the jillion armstrong movie mrs. Soffle Oh, sure with diankeith and mel Gibson, which is I feel like a sort of like prestigey film that didn't go over As much as she's an interesting director. Number nine is last year's best picture amadeus And number 10 Is something called tough turf tu ff tu rf Starring james spader Uh, I don't what the fuck is this feels like a thrash Where this episode's gonna come out and we're gonna get 80 dms from people being like tough turf with the single most important Movie in my childhood. I can't believe you guys didn't know about it. It looks like I would know about it james spader Teen movie that is important to other people. Yeah, not at the time. Sure. But after the fact I did the homework It's kind of like look, I mean ben. It's kind of like a jersey Oh, no, he relocates to los angeles though. I don't know. It's like a punk kid movie. You know, it's like Kid is punky and sort of on the wrong side of the track. Okay. I don't know Apparently tough turf is a song. Okay What can I tell you witness made nine million dollars witness Witness is blood simple out at the box office at this point in time. Oh fuck. I don't know. I can look it up That's one of those things where it's a little hard to find because the numbers doesn't really chart like the tiny release Hey, look, it's not the wrong place. I'm gonna say but I could say it here We we have been hearing that some high up people at IMDB listen to this podcast now. Oh really our fucking kingdom for box office mojo Restored I Cannot believe what they did to box office. It is we've look we've done this ramp before but it is one of the most straight up flop Like you you improved nothing you broke everything you broke everything and the numbers god bless them. They try it's not it's not the same But the fucking integration in time db and imdb pro it's just it doesn't fucking Work and if we can do anything with this platform it is if it's a fuck it's an outrage There was an episode Amanda. I think it was our swing shift episode Where I asked david to look up a box office stat and in real time we start spiraling I'm like, I don't understand Right, I don't remember the episode But I do think that this has happened also on the big picture where I looked for something and I was just like What the fuck are we doing? Where are my genres? Right? Where are my keywords and like where's my inflation calculator? Yes, yeah, like who is who Who is the new design for who is it helping nobody? It was just somebody messed up. They like flipped a switch It was immediately bad and it has not improved one iota since then. Yeah, they have all the data Please if you're listening to showing you of any power Run this conversation up the chain, especially if you are top of the chain. That's all i'm gonna say I have to be so bad. Okay. You guys start wrapping it up. Amanda. I do this big picture my favorite podcast Thank you griffin like to my favorite podcast. That's very kind of you to say um This is this nice thing that david does where he uh goes like the compliments time. He just leaves I do also want to be here and then I have to pee too. And then I have to fly back to los angeles tonight This afternoon. Wow. Um Yeah, I it's it's this and i'm out. So are you a uh movie watcher on planes? I probably will be on the way back. I usually save work For the plane of like things that I need to prep for but that makes sense for whatever reason I'm I'm free on this plane. So I don't know what I'll do. Yeah, maybe a little playoff baseball It's october everyone interesting in the current timeline of this podcast because I was gonna say I've I've been on too many flights Recently, um, right But this time of year I'm I planes. I'm like, oh, let me catch up with the movies I skipped in theater six months ago that I would never watch under any other circumstances And there probably are a couple that I should do But then I'm already thinking about like all the the movies that are like in theaters that I skipped screenings for that I do need to go see pretty quickly Sure, you know and that and even if I'm not that interested see tronaries. So we must face What if I keep this time for myself sure not seed it to the movies? Yeah, and just watch movies that I want to but in that case I usually just watch money ball for the 45th Millionth time, you know, another extremely difficult another interesting thing is not this is not at all interesting. No one cares um So I've been flying some with my children And so it's impossible to actually like watch a full movie But I will pick movies that I've seen a bunch of times and can just have on the screen With no dialogue. Yeah, because I have I know what's going on And so I can check in for two minutes if the child is like playing with a toy for 30 seconds Totally So maybe I'll watch a whole movie with audio. This is exciting on this flight. This is exciting. Very exciting. Thank you Everyone should listen to a big picture. Yes, please do everyone should listen to jam session. Thank you so much Um, you're the best. Dob mob for life. Thank you. I feel like we put a couple things On on the on the cork board as Amanda episodes. Oh sure. Locked if you ever get to them We're always gonna be on the lookout for any excuse to get you back here I would love to come and I I'm I'm gonna be back in New York more or you guys could come to Los Angeles It's about this guy. Yeah, it's about this guy. It's about my three children. I mean, I get it three trunks first. I'm hearing this Yeah, uh, thank you all for listening. Please remember to rate review and subscribe Uh tune in next week for mosquito coast mosquito coasts next week, baby. Let's call it with strong fancy unless he you know Like you know marty supreme haze just sort of like crashes out in the streets of new york tonight Unless something crazy happens in the next 24 hours. Sean's very reliable and organized. I would say yeah Yeah Lined up and I think he's excited. So he's coming to us from the criterion collection. I know that He's doing an early morning criterion. He's gonna come bags full three bags full one assumes. Yeah one assumes and as always Hasbro's indiana jones adventure series line has a gimmick where each of the figures comes with a piece of an artifact So I end up having to buy a bunch of figures. I don't want To put the things together So I just want you to know that you are the uh proud beneficiary of a shirtless Thank you hasbro for the first and last time in my life You want me to ask any more questions about lord of the rings Please yeah any other questions shirt. So what a golem? What's up? What is he? Well, I know this he was a hobbit and the one he was this sort of proto hobbit. Yeah, exactly like he got corrupted Yeah, he finds the morally or like a file rings so powerful make you go crazy He No, I did the ring both extends you're like what I like about the ring metaphor, right? It's like that it's like He's alive because it keeps you alive But imagine if you just didn't die like you would become this like monster Right, like you're supposed to be dead So how old is golem? Uh great actually, okay golem age because it's like he's 700 600 years old Dang But the idea is that he recovers the ring right when it gets chopped off saran's hand And then he's basically just been living in a cave wearing the ring. Oh, he mostly doesn't wear it He just touched we're going to answer all these questions with lord of the rings colon the Search for golem the hunt for golem whatever it's called. Is the weed indica or sativa or a hybrid What would you say? Do they do they ever shout that out? Is that figured out and like any of the I would say pipe weed is supposed to be more of a tobacco Like then uh, you know, um marijuana. Yeah, but have you looked at gandalf's eyes lately? You know that meme of gandalf where he's like gandalf sees like an indica gandalf elf he needs to chill No is a wizard. Oh shit, of course. Sorry, um, but gandalf is basically like sort of an emissary from the gods politics in lord of the rings world of wizard and elves you mean like democrat republican Related to related to the politics and the harry potter, you know, yeah Who's created a manosphere of acolytes, so maybe sorry man is like I'm a cue there the elves because the elf in the the the elf who fights for elves rides in harry potter is named dobby Which like people tried to try to Know Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, so but you know, so I know that's like a fraught topic with and that's the only fraught topic in the harry potter universe. It's the only example of bad politics Well, no the thing and right the thing in The house elves in uh in potter that's sort of interesting, huh? But they're slaves What's interesting about it is that rolling You know that the author of harry potter Uh does investigate really like it's you know, I like that hermione is like this seems fucked up to me Yeah, like because it seems totally fucked and everyone else It's kind of like the wizarding version of like homelessness where everyone else is like, oh, I don't know. That's just like how it is Whereas then in harry potter, there's the goblins and they're like, what's up with goblins? It was like they're kind of greedy We don't trust them. Yeah, they don't like working on friday In book seven There's finally a little bit of like a goblin gets to speak and is like we you you steal our shit Like we're goblins and you've like stolen like goblin, you know treasures. Yeah, okay, but it's a little late like for her to be like Oh, yeah goblins Maybe I don't know all right so elves versus wizards But in order they work together are they I'm sorry in which world are we talking lord of the rings in lord of the rings Elves was so like the elves are like the first right. It's like god makes elves Right and puts them on middle earth and they're beautiful and immortal And like eventually man shows up like thousands and thousands of years later And it's like a completely different kind of thing Am I wrong in thinking that the elves are born magical and the wizards are humans who learn magic? You are wrong You are wrong In in the lord of the rings, there's the wizards are just istari, which is just like They're they're gods. They they are they are there's only six or seven of them and they've been put on middle earth by God To like serve as sort of an emissary is there a higher and a lower earth Great question. No, no, and I don't really know how he Sort of came to middle earth. Okay. I don't really know. Why is it called middle earth? But if I'm amazon i'm looking my lips and going there story potentials Five seasons 500 million dollars. What's above? What's below? Yeah, uh, yeah, I don't know It's a translation of the old english word midden guard. I don't know By the time this episode comes out, it will probably be settled matter But the recent story that amazon is running the numbers on if it is Cheaper for them to not continue making the show really good and pay the talk in a state like 200 million dollars in penalties to not make it anymore I mean their continued insistence on making that show and being like people watch and like this like is getting increasingly delusional they have sunk so much money I think season three so much season three season three is filming and is happening But I think after that they may have to they write contractually They have to do five seasons or pay a lot of money if they bail sooner, right? Yeah, yeah incredible I've seen every episode inexplicably hmm Lang check with griffin and david is hosted by griffin newman and david sims Our executive producer is me ben hausley our creative producer is marie bardie selenus And our associate producer is a j mccheon. This show is mixed and edited by a j mccheon and alan smithy Research by jj birch Our theme song is by lame mcgummery in the great american novel with additional music by alex mitchell artwork by joe bowen olly moss and pat reynolds Our production assistant is minnick Special thanks to david show jordan fish and nate patterson for their production help Head over to blank check pod.com for links to all of the real nerdy shit Join our patreon blank check special features for exclusive franchise commentaries and bonus episodes Follow us on social at blank check pod Subscribe to our weekly newsletter checkbook on substack. This podcast is created and produced by blank check productions