EP 82: Alcoholism & Motherhood - Becoming The Mother My Daughters Deserved

Disclaimer. At Two Addicts and a Moron, we discuss personal stories of addiction with the intention of being educational, relatable and inspirational. The views and experiences shared are those of individuals involved are not meant to glorify or condone any illegal or harmful behavior. This content is for educational purposes only and is not intended as professional advice. If you or someone you know is struggling with addiction, we strongly encourage you seek help from a qualified professional or support service. All right, and we are back like a vertebrae to another episode of Two Addicts and a Moral. Hey, dude, look, I took that lyric straight from the Insane Clown Posse. ICP. Yeah, let's go. What's funny is people at work, they're always like, let me guess, you used to listen to ICB. I never did. Oh, I did. Did you? Yeah, still do. I appreciate them. Yeah. Yeah, man, that's commitment. Anyway, we're back to another episode of Two Addicts and a Moron, and this one is super cool. This one is really cool because this one belongs to a recent guest of ours. Ladies and gentlemen, Ms. Susan. Hi. Hey. Yay! Yeah, thank you for coming. Of course. Thank you for having me. And I want you to tell us your relationship to how you got here in this seat. Well, a couple of weeks ago, y'all had my daughter, Catherine, on your show. Miss Texas. Miss Texas. Yes. Miss U-S-O-A. Miss Texas. Right? Close enough. Sorry. I don't really know too much about the pageants. Me neither. Yeah. Yeah. We keep having them pour through here. I know. I don't know what the deal is with that. I know she said another girl she knows was on here. I was like, boy, it's a troubled bunch. It's a troubled bunch of guys. Yeah. Yeah. But anyway, I'm her mom. Yay. Yeah. So I made a comment to Miss Catherine. I was like, we need to get her on and we need to get it on sooner than later. And lo and behold, Mike's like, she's coming, like kind of immediately. So I'm super stoked about this. Y'all flew in to come, didn't y'all? What's that? Y'all flew in yesterday. Well, I flew in on Friday. It was actually, this was like a perfect, so I got sober in Austin or in Mainer, Texas. But it was a perfect opportunity for me to see a lot of people I haven't seen in a lot of years. Nice. And meet their children. They have kids now, all these people that I knew from, you know, 14 years ago. And so I made the best of it. Nice. I've been early and did that. It was a lot of fun. Yeah, but none more important than sitting on the couch with the two addicts. This is the main event. Yeah. Well, so I was talking to Catherine a little bit and you beforehand, and I felt a little bad because I just went in like she was an addict, and I figured out real quick she wasn't, that she was the daughter of an addict. So I was like, well, at the end of it, it was a great episode and I loved it, but I was like, we really got to get mom on here so we can talk about, talk about it from that side. Right. So, um, how long you been sober? I've been sober 14 and a half years almost. Whoa. Hey, let's go. Yeah. And, uh, alcohol, right? alcohol and then kind of, I mean, plenty of stuff in college and then alcohol became the primary relationship in my life. And then as I got a little bit older, I, uh, had some like back issues and got prescribed painkillers. And then that took on a whole life of its own. Yeah. Which is not, is it not a good combination? Yeah. So how would you say that your addiction started? How early would you say? Well, I mean, I was a relatively normal kid, I guess. It really started in college. In 89 I went to UT here in Austin. Welcome. Welcome, baby. Me and my daughter go to every UT volleyball game. Oh, you do? Some of the girls know us now, so they'll message on our Instagram and stuff. Okay. We're a huge volleyball supporter. Okay. Let's go UT. UT, yeah. But anyways, I went there and quickly kind of just got derailed. Started experimenting with things that kids do in college and drinking too much. And, you know, it did not get better. Yeah. And then found myself quickly in a little legal trouble and was in my first rehab in 1991. Okay. So from 89 to 91, that was the first stint. It was my first little run. Okay. Mm-hmm. And was that forced upon you or? Yes. Okay. Yes, a judge forced that upon me. Yeah, that always works. That was motivation. And so I went to a facility up in Minnesota. Oh, geez. Yeah. Wow. In the dead of winter. Yeah, that's what I was going to say. Like, how cold was it? It was chilly. It gets cold. It was chilly. A week ago, we had like this much of ice. And I was like, I would hate. It made me understand why people up north are so mean. like i was like i was like oh dude they're just like i gotta wake up and shovel the snow like i was like i do phone sales and they are always assholes are they they're so mean okay that's good to know especially this time of year so okay so you went into rehab your first time forced and i said that always works as a little bit of a of a joke because it never does it doesn't in the long you know like long term it's i was like they talk about in real recovery that fear, fear sobers you for a bit. And I was scared. Sure. I was scared enough of the legal consequences if I didn't stay sober. So I did that. I went out to Arizona to halfway house for a little while and I did okay. You know, I did okay. I was, I was young and I don't think I fully appreciated the gravity of what I was doing. How old were you at the time? 21. 21. And I really didn't know what, I didn't know what ailed me at that point in my life, you know, as a kid wouldn't yeah well that's a hard age to i would imagine that's such a hard age to get sober at like we've always marveled yeah some of the younger kids that we've had on here who have made that choice to to sober themselves up right and it's like man me at 20 21 i would never think that i had a problem i'm just doing what a 21 year old does right like in high school you drink You go to parties and drink, right? In college, you drink more. It's what you do. I'm like, you're supposed to, no, I'm not here to really to learn. I'm going to college for the parties. Right. And I would have never at 21 thought like, oh, maybe I shouldn't be doing ecstasy every weekend. Correct. Yeah, I would have never thought that. I would have just thought like, this is what I'm supposed to be doing. Like, this is what everybody else is doing. Yeah, I would have never thought that I had a problem. It amazes us when people come on that are, you got sober at 17 and 18 and 19. I mean it's insane because I would have – me, I would have never thought there was a problem. This was just something normal. I didn't even know what an addiction was at that time. No, I really didn't either. It was all kind of new to me. I just knew that I broke the law. Yeah. And so – And got caught. And I got caught. Yeah, that was the biggest part. Yeah, that was the lesson I really took away from that. The law was that I got caught. Yeah. So how did it – coming out of that stint, how long did you remain sober? Oh, you know, it's so hard to remember. not that long. I mean, really, maybe a year, maybe a year. I was, it was a heavy 12 step based facility. And, and they, like I said, I transitioned into sober living. So there were kind of expectations you had to, but then once I got out of that and moved in with a friend of mine that I had met there, you know, it just one day, it sounded like a good idea to, to have a drink. And then that, then that was like a 20 year run. I mean, that was it was it was game on right you know what's crazy is when i first got sober i didn't go to sober living because they would i couldn't have been able to see i wouldn't have brought my daughter to a sober living place right and already had a place but a lot of people that i met in the program like once they would get like a couple of months sober three months four months they would try to go and get become roommates with someone else that they met in the program and i've never heard of that working not one time i i've never heard of it working like either they both relapse or all three relapse or somebody in the group does and then they have to kick them out and then they there's so much resentment and they hate each other i've never heard of it working ever so so a 20-year run after that well that's what i say you know during that time like i mean i didn't it just progressively the drugs stopped the the drug the college type drugs right but the alcohol alcohol did not. And that just became, like I always say, when I talk to people about alcoholism, it is a very slow, like, you know how other drugs are quick. Like, it doesn't take long to figure out someone has a problem with meth. You know what I mean? Your life- Took me 10 years. Oh, it did? I don't know. Well, slow learner. Everybody else do. Everybody else do, except you. But I mean, alcohol, I think maybe because it's socially acceptable and you and especially like as a woman I'll say I think um you you hide it more because it's not like real ladies don't drink you know to excess and stuff like that so that was very much what was happening kind of behind the scenes at home then I got married and then babies babies came and that was a that was rough like trying to manage my drinking while pregnant like, I mean, you obviously were, it always starts with changing a feeling, right? When you're drinking or doing drugs, whatever your DOC is, at least that's what the people in the chair tell me when they come in here. And if you don't nip that in the bud at a young age, life keeps happening. And it's just the flame just keeps growing. Babies, marriage, like the day-to-day life and struggles that happen. So managing that while pregnant, how did you do that? Well, I think, you know, when you're making like life decisions like who to marry and these different things and you're under the influence, you're probably not making the most sane decisions. And so what it felt like to me is life started piling on me. Now, that's not really the reality of what happened. It was all consequences of the decisions I was making. But that's what it feels like. And then you kind of drink more to sort of manage, to your point, those feelings of feelings like, I think I'm making a mistake here. I think this. I think that. But anyway, by the time I was pregnant, then I was very cognizant of like, okay, I cannot be drinking while I'm pregnant. Like that is like you can't do that. And so I white-knuckled a lot of that, not saying I didn't drink when I was pregnant because I did. But I managed it to the best of my ability. Yeah. Okay. Okay, so moving on. First of all, I say this every time. Alcoholics are the ones when they come in. That's the one that fascinates me the most. Okay. And the reason why is because when you get better at HEB, it's at 7-Eleven, it's at Chuck E. Cheese, it's in the mall. Like there's no way that you're going to – meth, you kind of have to go. You've got to look for it. You've got to go look for the meth. I mean, it's not hard to find, but it's way easier to find a six pack of beer or bottle of wine. Like, I mean, it just is. So I respect people who come out of alcoholism because of how everywhere it is. So moving into you, there was like an injury or something that happened where you ended up getting into some opiates, right? Correct. So I had some back issues and went to the doctor. I was having neck pain and lower back pain. And I always say looking back now, it was the worst diagnosis someone like me, an active alcoholic, could have received, which was you have herniated discs. And at that time, OxyContin was a pretty new drug. What year was this? Oh, boy. So the girls – In the 90s? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, they just prescribed it to anybody. They gave it to anyone. They had those pill mills, right? Where I'm from, Southeast Texas, you could literally – they had doctors there that all my friends knew that you could go in and pay like $150 for the visit, and then he would write you a prescription of whatever you asked for. They cut down on a lot of those. Those are hard to find now. I don't barely think anyone can get prescribed anymore. It's so highly addictive. Yeah, but they used to be able to like – they would get Xanax, Vicodin, Lortabs, Lortabs. Lortabs. Remember those? Lortabs. Yep, I do. They would go get 100 of them. So they would pay $150 and then come out with $300 or 300 pills and then pay for their prescription and then turn around and sell them or do them themselves. Yeah. It's frightening. Yeah, it's crazy. I mean, you watch that show Painkiller on – have you ever seen it? No. Ooh, it's all about that. Oh, it is. It's all about the Sadler family who basically created Oxycontin. Oh, I do know what you're talking about. I did. I saw those little clips that they do of that. I really probably do need to watch that. You should watch it. It is frightening. And how much money that family made. No doubt. There's no doubt. And all it was was heroin. Like all it was Oxycontin from what I understand is like what Adderall is to meth. Oxycontin is to heroin. It's the legal version. It's a legal version. It's a very potent. So you got prescribed that. I got prescribed that and that did not take. I mean I blinked and I knew like you feel like this is the sad reality of it. Like you're almost instantaneously addicted to it. It's so powerful. Yeah. And so that – but because I had a, quote, legitimate – You had a reason. A reason. The dosage kept going up. The dosage kept going up until I would go in there, and what the drug does to your brain, my understanding, is that it literally tricks you into thinking that you're still in pain if you don't have the pill. whether you are or not I don't really know but so then that doctor um also started giving me morphine yeah that was probably the withdrawals if you didn't have the pill yeah exactly but I didn't know that yeah yeah and I would be crying in pain I was like no you don't understand I'm in agony and um it was just it was a dark time it was a very dark time and that continued for um that continued for for a lot of years it's a dark drug it's it's it's a dark drug it's a dark dark drug. I mean, but you know, it's interesting because I got it legally, right. My sort of drug dealer wore a nice white lab coat. I didn't, I knew, I knew I had a lot of problems, but I couldn't identify that. That was like, I was like, well, I'm, I'm being prescribed this. That wasn't one of them. And I clung really tightly to that, you know, that it, I separated myself from other people like that I saw that maybe had like a illegal drug problem and thought, well, that's, that's not me. Yeah. How did you hide that from the babies? Well, it was, here's the sad, the sad reality is my children really never knew me sober. Right. You know, um, that was just how mom was. Yeah. So they didn't have anything to compare it to. Right. You know, I was right. And I did my best, oddly, as it may sound crazy, but like, I really tried to be very, I didn't want them to see me drinking. They knew they probably knew I took medicine or pills or whatever it was, but like, they really didn't. I really did hide the drinking from my children. okay and so when katherine was on here she talked about the this probably a few years down the road but she talked about the incident where she found you on the bathroom floor right and um and that's when she knew that something was wrong i'm sorry it's okay yeah she's gonna start crying I'm going to start crying. You're going to start. We're all going to start crying here, man. So, and it was a very powerful thing that she was talking about and I didn't want to dig in, but, and I want you to, to talk about it from, from your side at that point, because this bridges into what I understand was a intervention. Yes. Yeah. And no, and, and super important, I think to, to talk about. So at this point in time, Catherine was probably 10, 12, 12. But things were – at age 10, I had – okay, well, I'll back up real quick because there's something that precedes this. So I went to Hazleton in 91. Okay. Then this – I called my 20-year run of like nobody really monitoring too much what I was doing. I was sort of just like getting by. And then we had moved – it was weird. I used to always say if I ever get back to Texas because her dad was in the hotel business, so we moved around a lot, which also was terrific fuel for my alcoholism because I never really met people and I never had any relationships with people. So the neighbor really wouldn't know anything was wrong with me. So you know what I mean? These are just all little side notes. But we had moved to San Antonio with a job of his, and I said if I ever get back to San Antonio, I'm going to go to Laja. I was like I got to get better. I knew something was wrong with me. I knew something was really, really, really wrong with me. At this point, did you like experience any kind of withdrawals or – I couldn't not drink. Okay. I was drinking all day, all day from the minute my ex-husband would leave for work. I was drinking and I needed it. At this point, I couldn't not have it. What were you drinking? Vodka by that time. Yeah. I mean – You can put that in a water bottle and just go about your day. You bet you can. I had my 7-Eleven Big Gulp cup with ice and it's straight vodka. And I rolled around with it and I walked around with it like it was nothing. So I want to rewind the clock a little bit because – You got to hang on. I go all over the place. Yeah, no, no. This podcast goes on. Okay. we don't prepare, we just want to talk, right? So when it's, was it started with beer or wine or wine cooler? You mean as a kid? Yeah, whenever. Strawberry Hill Probably Cape Cod was my first Cape Cod was the first drink I think I ever had in college Okay And I was like this is great The reason I ask that is it always seems like vodka is like that the The end result? Okay. You want to know why? Yes. Okay. So the reason why is I went through a lot of years. I love scotch. I drank Johnny Walker or Black Label. That was my favorite. But when you start to have a real problem with it, people can start smelling that on you. Oh, yeah. So vodka is a great little solution because you don't have the same scent. The same smell. People don't generally smell vodka on you the next day. I mean, or no one ever told me they did. But that's how that transitioned. And it's also cheap. You know, you get it off the bottom shelf. You know what I mean? Nice big handle. Yeah. And, you know. Yeah. The show intervention. I used to watch that many years ago and the alcoholics, it was always like vodka was the last one. Some of these dudes were, I mean, they just had a bottle of vodka and they're like tilting it up. And I don't know if anybody out there is ever taking just a shot of vodka. That's pretty gross. It doesn't taste like it's not the, it's not the most gentle tasting. Well, you're probably right. You're like – It's an acquired taste. Yeah, man. Like, I mean, it's a great mixer with stuff, but – She was mixing it with ice. With ice. Until I didn't want it diluted anymore. Yeah. And then room temperature was fine. Until the ice took away from it. Let me just get a cup. Let me just get a port in a cup. It's just burning through the big bolt cup, through the styrofoam. Like, are you going to go get another one? But yeah, so, okay. So bridging into vodka and then coming into this incident. Right. So I had gone to, so that's why I was telling you that. So I had gone to this treatment center and good treatment center. But again, I refused to follow their aftercare instructions. So I went through, I was starting to realize like the 12 steps might be important for me at that facility. But they said, you need to go to aftercare. And I was like, you don't understand. I have two small children at home. And that was the kiss of death there. So I refused aftercare and I went back home. And I'm telling you what, y'all. I wanted so badly to stay sober. Like I really, really did. This was the first time my desire was really genuine. And two days later, I was drinking again. And I knew, I was like, what? Yeah. It's wrong with me. were you when you said I can't go to after career because of my kids do you think there's probably no wrong answer do you think that that was you using that as an excuse or do you think it might have been both like I didn't want to be away from my kids because when I went to rehab I didn't want to be away from my daughter that was the hardest thing for me but I knew that I needed the help and I knew that I had to get it but before all the other times when people would mention you should go to rehab and i was like i'm not leaving my daughter i'm not it was a crutch but it was also a crutch because i didn't want to go get help yet does that make sense a hundred percent that's a hundred percent correct and i think for me um so alcoholism and addiction are a tricky thing like i look at it as it's like this part of my mind that can kind of controls my decision making 100 and so that part of my brain wants to survive my alcoholism wants to survive and if i go to after care, you know, I might defeat this thing. You know what I mean? Yeah. And so that part of my brain is convincing me. And it also sounds good to other people like, look what a good mother she is. She's got to get back to those kids. Yeah. Yeah. The kids that you put through hell. Yeah. You know what I mean? Yeah. Yeah. And so there's no logic to that at all. But, you know, what's hard about this is there's so few people that will really tell an addict or an alcoholic the truth. And that is the key, in my opinion, to real recovery. It's like confronting the truth of the way your life really is. And that didn't happen to me until 2011. But leading up to what you said about the – I had come out of treatment and decided that the problem was my ex-husband. I was like, okay, it's clear to me now. If I can get away from him, life will be better. And I'm not saying that didn't need to happen. That probably – side note probably did for both of us. But I took the girls and I moved out. And now there was no one even like – That you had to hide from. Nobody I had to hide from. Yeah. And I – it was – Got dark. It got dark. Yeah. And so we were there in that house probably. I'm trying to think. I mean it wasn't that long, maybe a year, year and a half And then, you know, the pills continued The alcohol continued And that incident specifically she was talking about I had a friend that suggested that I was anxious or something And gave me a Xanax Which was the last thing I needed with what was going on But that was what, I think that when they found me I had overdosed Yeah, man And I know that this seemed in your arc of the story of bridging into sobriety seemed to be like the moment right and this was a moment where now your kids clearly knew that there was there was a problem here and mike's family knew and even before that she would talk about like when you went to the treatment it was like oh mom just going to europe yeah paris and like you know kind of covering that up again not there's a bit of dishonesty it's dishonest and covering up absolutely the problem whereas if you're just punched in the face with this which i hate that that happened for you and for them i hate that it happened but there is a silver lining in that because look at you now There's a blessing and there's a lesson. There's a grace in that moment for sure. It was really – it was horrible, but it was good that it happened. It had to happen. It was either that or I was going to be found there and my children, which I heard what you were saying about your daughter, and I was so emotional listening to that on the interview you did with Catherine, the podcast you did with Catherine. Because can you imagine your daughter finding you dead? No. Scarred for life, right? yeah that's the worst possible i can't even imagine yeah my daughter would have just laid there beside me i know i heard you say that she was too young to know what what'd she do what's she gonna do nothing nothing what guys are getting me dude man it's what we do to our children yeah yeah this is that that was rough when she tells me in that moment so many times in this room when people tell me stories it takes me a minute to figure out or digest what's being said you know and I think hearing this all a second time is uh hitting me a little bit different hearing it now from both ends because there's so much perspective that you had to add to her story and that's why I wanted you here, you know? So, um, so this led into what she felt like she came into a, uh, intervention that she kind of missed out on. And I want to, I want to talk a little bit about that because I asked her a question in that. And do you think interventions work? Yes, you do. Okay. Now it clearly worked with you because that, that was the moment where you went off and you actually found your sobriety, right? I didn't go off willingly. Sure. Kicking and screaming. Sure. But you also had the will in that moment. You said it yourself here that you wanted to be better. I wanted it, but I didn't want it. Okay. Okay. Did you think it was possible? No. By that point, I didn't. Yeah. I had lost. I had no self-esteem. No – I was riddled with shame. I did not think it was possible. I think that's where a lot of people get – I know I speak for myself. I can't say a lot of people, but in my own opinion, I think that when somebody has been on a run for 20 years, 10 years, to where that's literally all that we do. Like that's – my first thought every day was meth first. It wasn't my daughter. It was like, I need to get high. And I think that we get to a point to where it's literally all that we've done and we've tried to get sober. And I would try to go days at a time and I couldn't even do it. It's like I would start getting depressed and start hating myself. It's like I was completely lost. I didn't love myself anymore. I had so much shame because of the things that I did to myself and to other people more importantly. and I had no hope whatsoever. I know. I was like, I would love to be sober. When they brought me in and was like, hey, this is what needs to happen, it's like I've been wanting this for years. I just didn't know if I could do it. Right. And I think that's where a lot of people throw in the towel to where they're like, there's just no way that I can overcome this. That's what it feels like. Yeah. It's insurmountable. And that's that part of your brain, that drug, telling you, in my opinion, you can't do it you you can't exactly and that part that voice speaks so loudly it still does and it still does right exactly it still tells me all the time you're a bitch oh yeah come back to me yeah but that's what i i've made a shirt one time a quote it said uh after addiction you got to find yourself love yourself forgive yourself and reinvent yourself because those were things that when I went to rehab, I didn't realize how lost I was. And I didn't realize how much I didn't love myself anymore. And then when I went through the steps, they were talking about like resentment and how you got to forgive people and things like that. My biggest resentment was towards me. So I had to forgive myself more than I had to forgive anybody else because I literally had so much hate towards myself for the things that I did. to my daughter and as a dad and to my family. So, yeah, I think that's a big part of people just feel like there's no hope in me anymore because I'm completely hopeless. Right. Hopeless is the correct word. Yeah. But for sure in your situation, and I'm assuming in your situation with this intervention, because he had what I would consider to be sort of an intervention at work. Sort of. Okay. Because, I mean, but with him, all excuses of why he couldn't go were getting taken away. It was like, okay, I'm paying your bills, dude. Like, I got, we got your rent. I've got your rehab. Like we all kind of there was a collective of people around them that were we're going to handle everything. Somebody took his dog like, you know, it was there. There was a group of people around that were like zero excuses. We got you. Go, go get better. Right. And this intervention sounded like you had a really strong kind of support system around you that was waiting for this moment. Well, that's probably true. But for me, my truth around it is that there was a lady, the interventionist that was there, just told me. She said, I will call the authorities and have your children taken from you if you don't go. Oh, let's go. And I knew deep within me that I was not a good mother. and I was scared to death that that would happen. So I got in the car. Did I want to go at that point? Like I said, I wanted to be well, but I did not want to go back to treatment because I had no hope that it would work. But I went. Yeah. But I went. I bet. And then the fallout for these children was devastating because they came home from school and I wasn't there. So that part of the intervention, if I could have changed it, If I could look back and wish that that didn't happen to them or that they could have been told maybe ahead of time, I don't know. I can't rewrite it. The end result is I'm healthy, alive, and I'm the mother that I always wanted to be to them. Right. So if that's the path that I had to be led down to get us there, then I can't really argue with that. Yeah. Yeah, I mean, I don't – talking to Catherine, when she talked about coming home, I was like, oh, you weren't part of the intervention at all. You just kind of saw the aftermath of it. So Thursday morning they left for school, and I had gone back to bed, and someone was banging on my front door. Yeah. Yeah. Well, in hindsight, I know you can't rewrite anything now, but it worked. But it worked. That's why I say interventions do work, but you have to have sufficient power with a lot of people that are how far down the scale they are. Yeah. And you have to have something that you got to figure out what matters to them because everybody has something. And for me, it was my children. Yeah. And sounds like it was for you, too. The only reason I got sober. Right. I stay sober now for me too and for the people around me. Well, yeah, of course. Yeah, but I had to have a why. You had to have some sort of motivation. And it had to be bigger than me because if it's about me, I'll quit. Absolutely. I'm okay with this life. Yeah. But with her, yeah. So with your kids, that was your why. It was my whole motivation. And what was that time in rehab like? It was initially horrible. Obviously, I went to detox first for a week. Yes, talk about the detox. Talk about detox. On alcohol, because I know that's so much different. God, that's so much different. I feel like when I was in rehab, the people that were in there for alcohol suffered for the first week. You do. and the ones that were in there for heroin or fentanyl suffered for the first week. Meth is just real depressing, and I can sleep through that. But alcohol, let's talk about the detox and alcohol. How does that feel? Well, they say I think maybe a doctor would back this up. I don't know. I don't like to think I'm a doctor. Yeah. But you can. Probably are more qualified than some. But I did stay at a holiday. You probably are more qualified than some for sure. Well, they say like, you know, the really only two things that you detox from that you can die from are benzos and alcohol. The detox is brutal. Now, heroin and opiates, you feel like you're going to die, but it's not really probably going to kill you. But that combination of an opiate detox and alcohol detox was I. A lot of it. Thank you, God. I don't remember. I think they almost put me in a drug induced state. Yeah, I was in bed a lot. I went to Texas Star out here. I don't know if that place is still open or not. But I was in that – I was there for a week, and I really have very, very few memories of it other than trying to like maybe take a shower by myself. And the staff would come in and tell me to get back to bed like I wasn't allowed to do that. It was just a – it was a blur in all honesty. Yeah, probably better than it was. but that's the way I've always understood it too was a withdrawal from alcohol withdrawal from benzos will kill you literally will they will shut down your organs which is wild that that shit is everywhere on a you know and that I hear that and I still am like I'm a drink yeah yeah I know but it didn't happen to me the first time but you were literally poisoning yourself every time you have a drink, whether it's a beer or whatever. And I know that, and I'm like, it's fun. Like, wait, okay, why not? That won't be me is always the thought. Yeah. That won't be me. For sure. You mentioned that interventions work. I think that they do as long as the person has a will, right, ROI. why. And I think the most important thing is you said earlier that people have to be honest with you. And I think that's when the most people, people that really care about you can come out and be honest. And I think that's, that's where it makes it work. If those two things come in a line and then you have a want to be sober. Would you agree with that? I would. I think addiction and alcoholism to a large extent are like, like a disease of delusion. 100%. You know, and it's like how I view my life and how I'm managing it and how I'm parenting my daughters. And it's not really the reality of what is going on. And so people tell kind of like your family trying to tell you that in an intervention is it has a value. Don't get me wrong. It doesn't. But that value, like I'm – for me, I was so combative, and I didn't like them. Like I resented my whole family. They were responsible for all my problems in my life. So they're telling me – Y'all are the reason I drink. I'm like pretty much y'all are the reason. Look at me. Yeah. You did this to me. Yeah, yeah, yeah. You know what I mean? Which is ridiculous. But like that's – your mind can convince you of this stuff. So it was more important for me to be told the truth once I got to treatment. And I am so blessed that God picked the perfect place for me to go. Old school treatment facility in Manor, Texas, where it was not about like, oh, we feel like you're depressed. Well, I'm probably depressed because I'm drinking like a fish. That's probably why I'm depressed. It's not that depression came first. What year were you in Manor? 2011. Okay, yeah. So it's still small. Yeah. Manor is much bigger now. It was. I didn't know where I was. I woke up the next day or I hadn't slept yet probably. But I was like there, I was like, I can't escape. Like I can't leave on foot. I'm out in the middle of nowhere. It was like this house out in the country. And I was like, I felt trapped. You know, and they took your phone from you and everything. Beautiful. Yeah, it was beautiful. That's beautiful. You got to, I mean, you got to trap yourself and deal with. I mean, it's time to face the reality of who I was. You got to get in there, and you got to trap yourself there. It's crazy how people in the rehab facility can help you so much. Like what you said you had somebody or a few people that were really honest with you there Brutally honest I did my fourth step with a guy named Johnny who we need to get him on this podcast but he so fucking smart I hate I don like talking to him because he's so much more educated than me. It makes me feel like this small. But he, I did my fourth step with him. We were doing a group session and he was like, who wants to do a fourth step? I was like, I'll do it. No one else wanted to do it. And I instantly regretted it because we started, he was like, we went through the resentments and I was like, my ex-wife, That's who I thought I had so much resentment towards. And he's like, well, why do you have resentment towards her? And I said, well, I never cheated on her, and I never beat her, and she left me during my addiction. That was a big – like those were my big deals. Like I never cheated, and I never beat her. Because you were such a stand-up guy. Amazing, amazing person. Amazing father, husband. You know what's funny about that is like those are like the barrier for entry to like any decent relationship with anyone. It's like I don't beat you. i don't yell at you and i worked my ass off and i had a job like the credit cards paid for every woman's dream and this motherfucker loved me right give me my golden globe right now of being the best man alive and he's he literally told me we'll cross out the cheating part because you did cheat on her and i was offended it's like i've never cheated on her he said with drugs you did every fucking day. And I never thought about that part of it like that. And I like, I literally was crying in the middle of this session because I had never, I hadn't put myself up here because those were the three things I hung my hat on, right? Never beat you, never cheated. And I always supplied for us, but I did cheat on her every single day with drugs behind her back. And I never thought about that. And that really made me lose that resentment towards her for leaving me during my drug, like you should have stayed with me for all those years. Yeah, like what was she supposed to do? Save me, right? I would have never left you. That's what I used to always tell her, right? And his honesty, brutal honesty during that, it kept me from wanting to do a fourth step over again. But it's something that I needed to hear so much because that let me know that, you know what, I wasn't the best guy. I wasn't that person that I thought I was. And I do see why you left me. And that's the kind of thing when I really think about it in talking to like Catherine Alex, my relationship with my daughters now, every relationship in my life now is based on its honesty because I lived in dishonesty for my entire addiction and really my whole adult life up to the point of actual sobriety. You know what I mean? Not just. And yeah. And around just a group of women that nobody else had ever had the courage before in my life. It was another mother that said it to me, of all things. And she looked at me and she said, you are an unfit mother. I was just about to ask what was the hardest thing you heard? That was – I remember having – we did a thing called Circle, and this is when everybody – Oh, yeah. Okay. So it was one of my first circles there. I was a new resident, and I was sitting there, and you had to sit and open-bodied position, and you accepted feedback from each other and stuff. And really, it really is a beautiful experience. It doesn't feel like that at the time. It's horrific. But this woman said to me that I was an unfit mother, and I remember having a physical reaction to that and just kind of collapsed forward in my chair because it was like somebody for the first time in my life exposed me. Yeah. And because I knew it about myself inside, but somebody else said it out loud. Yeah. Well, that's the thing about our character defects, right? Like we don't realize that people can see them. I know. We know we have them, but we think that we hide them so fucking well that there's no way. Like, I know that I'm not the best dad, but I put on such a front and I tell myself that I am that when you tell me just like I thought I was a great husband. But whenever he told me, no, you were a cheater, you cheated on her with drugs. I knew that I just never, you know, it was something that I needed to hear. It's like when someone said you're an unfit mother. You probably knew that deep down. I did. But when someone said it to you, it's like, fuck, they know now. Now everybody knows. Everyone knows. That's what it feels like. It feels like this very – it's a very raw experience. I'm so grateful for it. I really am. As painful as all of that was, and I was there a long time. I was there five and a half months inpatient. I was there a long, long – I think a lot of it was when you think about how much years of damage you do from daily drinking. for 20 years and put the drugs on top of it, how long it takes your brain to even start clearing. That's why I don't really think 30 days in treatment is enough for most people. It really isn't. I agree with that. You're setting them loose back into society, and they don't have the skills yet to really understand the gravity of what they're dealing with. Because once I really knew how serious this was, I knew I had to do everything they were telling me to if I was going to stand a chance. If you were going to survive. Yeah. I've told more on that before. Like I didn't start feeling normal until six months. Yeah, that's about right. I felt like my brain started coming back. Coming back. At about six months of me being off of everything. Because I mean, how much sleep depression or is that the right word? Deprivation. Deprivation. Yeah. Not the smartest person. How much sleep deprivation I did for 10 years on meth. I can't imagine on meth. Right. I mean, there's days that I didn't sleep for three and four days. It's crazy. So, yeah, I literally those first six months I was in bed every night after I went to a late night meeting at like eight to nine. Come home and was in bed and I just I slept a lot, but I didn't start feeling normal to about six months. So was that like a moment for you where it kind of snapped when you were like, I've got to beat this. I've got to get better or like there's always when they said that. Yeah. There were a lot of those moments. Yeah. It always seems like the, some of the moments are so small, like that, that snapped somebody into like, um, yeah, that moment did it snapped me into the reality of where I was and the, the, the, the chaos that my life had become. And also I kind of knew, I, I think I felt like, like you're not getting out of here. Right. Like you're not going anywhere. Nobody is letting you leave here. Like it was just, it was so much. It was so much. And like I said, I was probably I was in detox for a week. So like. I don't even know how much I could really process at that time. Now, mind you, this is 14 years ago. So, I mean, but. It was it was it was the beginning. Yeah. OK. So five months you were in treatment. I was in treatment. And so how did you do it? How did you get out of there and how did you maintain it? Well, you know, I'm also like a really big believer only because of my own experience. The 12 steps are what saved me. And so you do all 12 steps there. You do your fourth step. You read your fifth step, all of these things. And they don't – at this – the facility is no longer there. But at this time, like they would extend your stay if they just didn't feel like you were ready. And part of I think when they start to know maybe you're getting better is when you become willing to stay. And I was willing to stay because I didn't want to do to them what I had. I didn't want there to be a chance. And I remember another thing that same woman actually said to me. She said, if you will – oh, I know what it was. I was really crying. I was really missing my children because we couldn't see them. Like the first month, you didn't even get to see them. And I think you had to be there two weeks before you got a 10-minute monitored phone call with them, like jail. I love it. Listen, I'm a big fan of this old-school kind of treatment. That's how my rehab was. Okay, it was. We had phone calls on Sunday, and if they didn't answer, too bad. Too bad, right? Too fucking bad. Next week, yeah. You know what I mean? And you couldn't even get your phone out to get – you better know the phone number because you're not getting your cell phone to lock. It's gone. It's in the safe. Yeah. Yeah. I think that's such a big deal. I have a buddy that's in rehab right now, and the first rehab he went to, they let him keep his phone after a week. And I'm like, what are you doing? Why are you calling me? He's like, oh, they gave me a phone back. I said, you need to go to a different place then. Yeah. That's just my opinion. You're not wrong. You need to go somewhere else because you shouldn't have access to your phone because then you have access to all the other things. You got drug dealers in there. For me, I would have had a phone for porn. I mean I would have had all my addictions there except – or right at my fingertips. I think that every place should take your phones away. Well, and you know what's interesting about that too? I always equate it to this. They talk about in the first step that you're admitting your life is unmanageable. So what do you need a phone for? What are you trying to manage? What are you trying to run? Trying to mend relationships from rehab? You're going to all of a sudden handle everything. You're a week sober. We're like, you know, I'd like to tell you I'm real sorry about it. You are not there yet. Like lock the phone up and have this experience sitting here and go through this work that really does change people's lives, transform people's lives. Talk about that for a second because I was going to ask you about that. When the lady told you you were an unfit mother, how hard was it for you not to try to leave to go become a fit mother? because whenever I was told – there was – when I did the phone calls with my daughter, every single time I wanted to leave to go be with her, right? But I knew I couldn't. It's not that I couldn't. They would have said, fine, go ahead. Walk home. Walk, yeah. Walk your ass to H-E-B and have someone come pick you up. Yeah, because there were some of them that did it. Oh, and plenty of them did. Yeah, some of them did it. And then next day we'll be back. And I was there January and February. One of the guys left at 3 in the morning, and they said, walk. It was raining. He walked his ass to H-E-B, and then he sat out there like – he said people thought that he was homeless because he had a garbage bag of all this shit. With his clothes, okay. And his little guitar, and he ended up coming back two days later. Okay. But there was always a few times where I wanted to leave because as I'm getting a little sober and a little, I guess, smarter in my mind, I feel like I see all the damage that I did and now I want to go fix it. Right. But I can't go fix it because I'm not even fixed myself. Not well yet. And that's what the text used to say is, what are you going to fix? Right. Right. What are you going to go be a dad now? Right. Because you don't even know who you are. Right. So will you talk about that? Like that's such a big deal when people are in rehab, in my opinion, where all of a sudden They think they're fine and they want to go save the world, and then they get back out there too quick, and then they realize I didn't even save myself. Correct. I had an experience with that in – what was it? When I went to Laha, that was my experience with it. So I was grateful kind of that that had happened to me because I knew like, okay, me making the decision of when I think I'm ready to go back out and my kids need me so badly and all of this, I already could look back on that. And they pointed me to it pretty quick. The staff, they're like, you already did that. You tried that. You left. You didn't follow through with everything that a group of sane people said you needed to do in order to fully recover. You know what I mean? Yeah. And so you want to do that again? And then – so yes, of course, I wanted so badly to be back with my daughters. And I remember I never knew – you know how people talk about the word heartbreak, like you're heartbroken? I never knew what that word meant until I was at this facility in Manor my first night, and my heart literally felt broken. I missed my children so much, and I wondered who was going to make their lunch, and were they scared? And literally my heart, like a physical – but I just – I think I didn't – I don't really – I mean there were times I wanted to leave. But they were short-lived. Yeah, yeah. I was – I really – when I tell you that God placed the perfect people in my life, at that time it was a women's facility, which was another important component to me, not co-ed. That was another reason, and I was in there with mothers, a lot of other drunks, drug addicts. I mean everybody. We were all in there together, and the beauty of it is because you're in this – like you cook for yourselves. You do everything. You have this bond. Bond, yep. And those are the same people I am friends with in my life today. The people I know I can call. You know what I mean? And the miracle is – here's the real miracle of it. You know this is a high relapse disease we suffer from. The women, most of them that I went through with are all still sober today. That's awesome. Yeah. Nice. I think that's important that you said. Like there are those small gaps, but my texts and the other guys in there when I'd be like, man, I miss my daughter. I want to go see my daughter. They would say go cry it out. Go cry it out. Go cry it out and get through it. Go talk to your community. Yeah, go cry it out. Go talk to somebody or you can talk to me because that's going to pass in 15 minutes. That's right. Just cry through it rather than if I make the decision I'm leaving, then I'm fucking leaving. Right. Right? So don't make that decision. Go cry it out and realize that she's fine and that you're going to be better for her whenever you get out, but you're not getting out today. And learning to walk through those emotions because we don't do that. We don't do it. We pour alcohol on it or meth or whatever we do to avoid our feelings. Yeah, yeah. Oh, we haven't felt those feelings in so long. That's right, and they feel super overwhelming, or they did to me. Yeah, they were definitely overwhelming. You probably needed to be heartbroken long before you were heartbroken. This is also true. That's like the, I mean, almost like a workout, you know, like you feel so much better after a workout, right? Like same kind of thing. You know, that heartbreak was a long time coming for you, you know? It was. And look, it sounds to me like you did all the things the right way. I finally listened. Well, yeah. Well, yeah. Well, you know. Just listening to people who had done it before. Well, they say alcohol will beat you into a state of reasonableness. Yeah. And that's what had happened. I was, as the big book talks about, sufficiently mangled. Okay. I was sufficiently mangled. Yeah. And I became willing to follow some direction that didn't originate from my own mind. Yeah. It really was like when I think back, it was a beautiful, beautiful thing. thinking about like, this is how I describe it to people sometimes that like don't have any experience with addiction or alcoholism. I say it was like the, the, the crossroads for me, I was out of ideas of how to do this on my own and I was out of options. And when that intersection happened in my life, there was, I felt like God plucked me out of it and dropped me in this place and was like, you're going to sit here and you are about to have an experience that's going to change your life and it happened yeah it's kind of like how this the steps talk about it right how like we're the insaneness this every bit of it and whenever you're able to finally listen and be willing i think that's the biggest deal if you're willing willing yeah when you're willing then you can start just a little willing yeah just willing to do something different just something anything different willing to follow a suggestion just willing. And then you see, for me, I would take that step. Like I remember a lady, one of the texts that was there at the time, she would tell me, well, are you praying in the morning? Are you starting your day with some prayer? And I didn't have any kind of connection to anything outside of a bottle of vodka. I really didn't. I didn't know what I believed. I didn't know anything. I was so detached from life. But she said to me at the time, I told her, I said, well, I don't ever think about that in the morning. She goes, well, why don't you put your cigarettes under your bed? And she goes, and then you'll be on your knees when you wake up in the morning already. And I did it. I took that suggestion and it started something that I continue to this day. I start my morning reading a devotional, something to get me like in that place of gratitude yeah so you're a sponsor today right well i have sponsored many women in 14 years yeah that's been that's the that's the that's the real deal with this thing that's what keeps you sober and uh it's it's like fuel yeah well talk about it i mean that's got to be really special like when you 20 years you have this crazy event that happens you go get heartbroken to get it all mended and now you get to go you know walk other people through the thing and i said it a little bit earlier to you but i was people who come and sit on that couch and start mentoring or sponsoring, or you guys are so much more qualified than any therapist or doctor. I do believe that in some ways. You know what I mean? One hundred percent. I couldn't listen to some doctor who just has a MD who never went through any of what you went through. Exactly. I'm not, you don't know. You have no idea. They know the medical end of how bad my brain's damaged, but they don't know what that shame feels like. You have no idea. Yeah. So you being able to walk other people through that, I mean – I think the beautiful part of it is that's the gift of it, right? I mean as cliche and sort of cheesy as that sounds, like you hear people say, I am grateful for my alcoholism addiction, but I really do feel – I do – Such a grateful – yes. But you know what I mean? I really actually am because – but for the fact that I had this thing that it brought me to a place that my life was going to be changed. I would hate to have limped along my whole life the way I was going, you know what I mean, or been so disconnected from anything outside of myself. Yeah, right. You know, and that's how I lived my life, even really before. I mean, alcohol had a total chokehold on me. You know, I wasn't like I was a selfish, self-centered person. Yeah. It made you who you are. Yeah. So in that aspect, you know, not like I said, it's there is gratitude there for it. Yeah. But to to your question about working with other women, they taught they were big, big, big, big on that. The facility I went to that you were already sponsoring people. Really, you were doing fifth steps with the newer residents. You were there sort of mentoring them as they came through. And then they got you in the rooms. So they were preparing you. Oh, very well prepared. I mean I am so grateful to that facility and the program that they had there. And there were no real doctors or anything there. There were no even clinicians at this time. We kind of called it the wild, wild west. Yeah. And I think it was so effective. Yeah, good. It was so effective. And so being able to then share it was other women other alcoholic mothers that helped me So then you feel unqualified to do it i think in a lot of but you really realize you start to it was the first thing in my life that i felt like i was qualified to do you know because i didn't finish college and um i was like okay i actually know what i'm talking about yeah i've got a phd in this i i am A master's level, yes. Yeah, that's awesome. And so to watch other women get well, it's really cool. Matter of fact, like, I mean, I'm a lot more in full transparency. I'm a lot more detached from the meetings and all the 12-step work than I was early in my sobriety because my life has changed a lot. And I used to get – when I was newly sober, I had a lot of fear around that. Like I was like, oh, they say if I don't like stay like right like this. But that's not really what the big book of Alcoholics Anonymous says. It talks about you grow in your spirituality. And that's happened to me organically. And so one of the gals I went to see yesterday morning that I was her sponsor from – she's been sober now, what, 13 years. So I was like about a year, year and a half sober when I started sponsoring her. She doesn't call me for anything anymore. Like there's not that level of like – I don't want to say neediness, but like she's not like actively like struggling like you do when you're early and you need a sponsor so much. Like my sponsor has been my sponsor since I was a year sober, and she's still my sponsor, but it's more of a friendship now. Yeah, yeah. It's not like you're calling her because you're not on fire every day anymore. I'm not on fire every day anymore. Like I call her, I'm like, listen, I'm off the chain with this customer at work or whatever it is. And she's like, okay, reel it in. Reel it in, crazy. And so she still has that ability to do that with me. She's a big part of my life. Well, I think this would be a good time to bring Miss Texas into the fold because I got a couple questions to ask the both of you. We'll figure this out. Just get over here and we'll punk rock. Welcome back. Thank you. Yeah. So to mom, what were your thoughts about her getting into pageantry? Yeah. Oh, boy. Let's. I just want. Yeah. Are you asking me honestly? I'm asking you very honestly. So I was totally caught off guard by this. Yes. I mean, she was. She told me this. And I mean, I was like, OK, well, my first thing was like, aren't you too short? Because I grew up watching the ones on TV on Saturday night. They're all at least 5'8". She's 5' tall on a good day. But anyway, my really main concern at the time, she was studying for her CPA to sit for that exam. And I felt like this pageant thing was a distraction from that. So I wasn't super happy about it at the beginning, but I am now a big supporter. Big fan. Big fan. Yeah, you got to lean into it. Yeah. So a second follow-up question to this. Her cause, she had to pick a cause for this. She picked yours. I know it. I know. That's pretty against the grain for their world, right? and that is um it has a very like punk rock spirit to it it's like we're not gonna i'm not gonna go down this road of like not to say that this cause isn't great but like pediatric you know world peace type of yes you know these easy right down the middle of a lane sort of thing. She chose your cause. Well, really, and I guess I look at it like hers, you know, because that was her life experience growing up. A lot of years, I wasn't as present as I should have been. And she has a unique perspective. There's an authenticity about it, right? So I've always tried to tell the girls since I got sober, it's like, you have to use the things that have happened to you in your life and what God's given you is the way you'll really be able to affect another human beings life kind of like what you guys are doing here it's it's a beautiful thing that you do there might be somebody listening that they're like oh i didn't think about it that way or whatever it was and she has a unique perspective as the child of an alcoholic yeah um and what that feels like to grow up like that and to have an experience of a mother taken away from you yeah you know yeah so for a long time yeah for a long time okay okay okay so uh I know you talked about this before when you were on, but, you know, picking this lane, I feel like it was pretty easy for you to pick the lane. Yeah, I would agree with that. Yeah. And to me, it's just, it's sort of wild. This is one of the things I reflected on. We kind of just talked about it, and I was like, this is cool. There's a cool thing that you do, but it's really cool what you've decided to do, like to choose something that is viewed as taboo. And I don't know that that's ever going to go away. I don't think it will. And that's why I think I mentioned it. I was on the fence about it when I started, but I had that pageant coach that said, well, that's why you should do it. Because even people like my mom or people that actively struggle, they feel so much shame around it. And so if I can be someone that can speak on it, then why wouldn't I do God's work to try and make a difference in that way? Breaking down the shame. Yeah. And breaking down stigmas. The stigma is huge around it. It's so bad. It's so bad. And I wanted to mention this to you as well, but I think you're much more the face of this thing. And you're much more the face of this thing on the other end than the dude under the bridge. Right. I you cannot convince me. I mean, that to me feels like the very last stop. There are so many stops along the way that got there. Right. And and having somebody that seems well put together, probably even in your addiction, you probably seem pretty well put together, you know, given early on, maybe. Well, but, you know, given that impression. Yes. Yes, yes, yes. Taking them to school and all that. Right. Making them lunch. Correct. Trying to – and I did like – The mom stuff. Showed up at school, handed out the Easter candy. Yeah. Yeah, like – PTA parent. PTA parent, keeping up appearances. Yeah. You know what I mean? Yeah, Lance. We had him on a few weeks ago from the – He's from Dallas. He's from Dallas. He's a corporate lawyer. You know, showed up, shirt tucked in, and I'm like – We're a couple dirtbags, obviously. white trash I prefer to be called white trash he prefers WT it was so important for him to show his face attached to this thing so important for you to show your face as affected by this again I think I told it was a boat driving down in the wake behind it that it creates that's your addiction your addiction is that boat you're just moving forward and just letting the wakes happen. And we're the ones dealing with it and trying to figure it out. Right. So I am, I mean, I'm honored to have you on, of course, but then so quickly thereafter to get you back in here. I'll do anything for her. And that was a nice offer y'all said. And I thought, well, if it can be helpful, if it can be helpful, that's what we're all doing here, right? This is going to be helpful. This is, I mean, every single one. Somebody can take something away from everybody's story. And having you and you be a beacon for that is all we could ever ask for. Recovery is possible. Recovery is possible. Recovery is possible. We do recover. We do recover. And so do the children. Yes, and so do the children. And so do the wives and the husbands and everybody else who has to deal with. There can be healing. With that wake, you know, it slows down. It slows down. That boat slows down. You get in that no wake zone, right? Yeah. So let me ask you this. When she came, when Catherine came to you and said, Mom, this is what my cause is going to be for the pageants. what did you think and what did you say and how did you feel i mean it's like a weird thing it's like i felt so proud of her i felt like she had a lot of courage she has all the qualities really both my girls do of like things that i wish i had growing up you know what i mean um proud i think would be the best word to describe it and something kind of i never thought about like You don't hear a lot about the children of alcoholics. Absolutely. And so I think that's maybe an area that can be a little more attention put on because – Sure. Well, you guys did – you said they have the qualities that you wish that you had, but you have them. It's just being honest. They got it from somewhere. Right. And they got it from a level of experience that it might not have been the most classic way to get there as you would have hoped for. Right. I think we could all agree on that. I mean, there was. But but again, it goes back to the there's a positive in everything. And. I know it. I mean, look what you look, what you've created, you know, all my friends like tell me to. They're like, your girls are knocking it out of the park. And who knows if you would have just been the complete sober mom from the beginning, they might not be knocking it out of the park the same way. You know what? That's true. You know, that's a – so I just want to give you some perspective because I know that there's probably a little bit of that still going on. Like, oh, I want all that time back, and I wish this, and I wish that. I wish I hadn't done this. I wish I hadn't done that. Well, having somebody like this sitting here, I would say that you went through exactly what you needed to go through for them to be killing it the way that they are. She might have been talking about world peace. I know, right? Yeah, what is she going to talk about? She'll be talking about politics and what's going on in famine in Africa. Who wants to talk about that? I've seen a post the other day. It was Michael Hunter Shepard. Yeah. He had a post of some guy that wrote on a sign that said, before you judge an addict, ask yourself if you could have went through that same story that they went through. And ask yourself – well, he didn't have this part, but I was thinking in my head. Ask yourself if you could have got to the other side like I did. So I know a lot of times – I don't personally – I don't think that you do either for me listening to you. I don't regret going through my meth addiction for 10 years. I don't regret it one bit. People ask me that all the time. If you can go back and change it, would you? Absolutely not. Even though – because one, I can't change it, but it also made me who I am. And it also made me the person that I can go and pay this forward and try to help as many people as I can. And it also taught me to teach my daughter at a very young age about everything that she's going to come up to, to where things are starting to pop up in her life now. And she's like, I got that. My dad taught me about this. And that was something me and her mom had struggles with in the beginning because she thought that I was way too honest. Like what you said, our program is all about honesty. Run an honest program. Right. And those little lies that we used to do, we don't tell them anymore because we just don't do that. So I was so honest with her whenever I got out of rehab when she was six to where she's 10 now and things that are starting to pop up in life. She's already aware of and ready for. Whereas her mom, we just talked two days ago about this and her mom was like, I kind of used to get on. She didn't tell me this, but I know she was thinking it. She used to get on my ass about being too honest with her about life. Okay. And now that life is starting to happen, she's like, oh, you've already talked to her about that. You've already taught her about that. And, yeah, so I think your story had so much effect on them but also had so much positive effect on them as well because now look what she's doing now. I know it. Yeah, it's kind of crazy. It's kind of – she took a negative and turned it into a positive. Absolutely. Yes, she did. And she's running with it. Like she is the torch that is running with it. She picked up your torch and ran, man. It's so cool. Like it's really, really cool. And your other daughter is killing it too as well. She absolutely is. You know, let's not leave her out. No, let's not leave her out. God forbid she calls mom and says, you motherfuckers didn't talk about me. Fuck both of y'all. Hello, Alex. Hi, Alex. Hi, Alex. yeah so look thank you guys so much thank you for coming talk about your you have stuff that you have out there right that and march right nationals is march yeah yeah and then um shatter proof the organization i um serve as an ambassador for they do i don't know if i've ever mentioned this but they do walks across the country and so their walk season is going to be coming up too and That's a great way to be involved with addiction stigma and their conscience. Let us know. We'll come walk with you. Yeah. Yes, it's in Dallas. Yeah, we'd love to do that. Let's do it. Awesome. We'll drive or fly. Yeah. Look, we'll bring some Two Addicts and a Morag shirt. Yeah. There you go. Yeah, there you go. That'd be awesome. Yeah. We'll walk out there. And look, when you win nationals. Ready. Because it happens. Look. It's going to happen. It's going to happen. Right? I love the positivity. Yeah. Look, when that happens. Yeah. You better give a shout out to Addicts of the Moron. I'm ready. I've already got it planned out. I'll be in the audience and I'll remind you. Q. Q. You'll hear some random words. Do like two Addicts. Great. Yeah. I will. Yeah. Yeah, dude, that'd be awesome. Yeah. Yeah. So you guys enjoy life. Enjoy the rest of your weekend. Thank you guys so much for coming on. We appreciate this so much. We're going to have a lot of stuff to chop up in this one. And it's coming out on Tuesday. Okay. Yeah. So I don't know if they're sports fans or not, but we have a Superbowl coming up. We got in the Superbowl. Patriots or Seahawks. This is a Patriot house I like the quarterback of the Patriots now Drake May I don't think he suffered enough You don't, okay He had to go through Tom Brady's shoes, bro And he'll never fill those shoes, but he's great No, he didn't, he went through like four other quarterbacks Before they got to him After Tom Brady Anybody that goes to the Patriots is always going to have Tom Brady Over their head No matter what Tom Brady's the greatest I don't feel that organization has been terrible long enough yet. I think they needed a couple more years. We got spoiled with Tom Brady. Yeah, that's what I'm saying. You're spoiled and you're getting back to spoiled again. We were literally in the Super Bowl every other year. But I hate the Seahawks, so go Hawks. Okay, Steve, go next. Steve talked all that shit. Just to say, and Tom Brady's the greatest. Well, Joe Montana has something to say about that. Tom, you're the greatest. Who's your pick? Well, now I'm scared to say after your comment. She's not a Seahawks fan. No, no, no. But my USOA Mrs. Texas, her husband won the Super Bowl with the Seahawks. So I feel like I have to kind of – Who is that? Who knew? She's not. What? Jared Smith. Oh, you know? Oh, okay. Jared. Yeah. Jared Smith. Jared Smith. Wow. Never heard of him. No, I'm teasing. Well, that's cool. Yeah, I couldn't believe it, but she brings it up so casually. So I was like, oh, wow. And he wore his Super Bowl ring, and he's like, do you want to try it? I'm like, it's the size of two of my fingers. You're like putting your whole hand in there. You're like, ah. Yeah, those things are huge, man. Well, let's just say he didn't win that Super Bowl against the Patriots. Because two years ago, or two years after they won the Super Bowl in 2000, they played the Patriots and they got beat by the Patriots. Yeah, I got to say Patriots. That was in 2014. That was when they had the Legion of Boom. Yeah. Okay. So 2014, we beat them in the Super Bowl. All right. And we're going to beat them in the Super Bowl in 2026. I'm a huge Patriots fan. I know everything about the Patriots. Okay. Wow. Okay. I'm sorry to bring that up and spring that on you at the end of our episode. Good job on the ring. Yeah. Right? Yeah. But you guys are the best. Thank you. Who are you picking? Oh, I said I'll take Patriots. Okay. Let's go. Well, definitely now. Yes, let's go. Well, now I need to take Patriots. Yeah, we're all on the same page. We're all we can do. Did y'all drive in your car or her car? Because if it's in Cats, I'm going to flatten the tires. it's a rental all right even better well uh look i i told her we're gonna apparently go walk and stuff we're gonna do some when does that start walk season is summer and fall because texas gets hot so texas seems to be the one in the fall like the last one so it's not as brutal but their walks are all over the big major cities in the u.s okay just let us know let us know when you're walking we'll come walk i will and if you ever need us for anything or need to shout us out I tell everybody, once you sign your name on that wall, your family, and if you need us for anything, come holler, and the door is always open to you. Oh, very sweet. Or somebody you want to refer. We need to get Alex in here now. I feel like we should. We need to get Alex in here. Let's go, Alex. Come on, Alex. Bring in the whole family. The whole family. If she comes on, y'all can have that couch. Moron can go there. We'll switch up. We'll set three mics up, and y'all can just go to town. The whole family. Family reunion. No more interventions. No more. Well, we got another one in the books here. Ladies and gentlemen, thank you so much. Appreciate you. Love everybody. Do the liking and subscribing. You know all the things. Comment. English, thanks for watching my dog. You brought that up. I forgot about Tookie. I love you. Thank you so much. Watching my dog. That was my last thing. No one's going to watch my dog. Nobody's going to watch the dog. He's like, I'll watch it. I said, it's not even trained. It's going to shit and piss all over your house. He said, I don't give a fuck. So, yeah, he watched my dog for a month. Yeah, man. Yeah. Thanks, English. All right. Well, we got one in the books. Thanks for dressing up again. Thanks for dressing up again. Let's go. She always looks like this. I have a feeling she drives around town with this on. I'm so sure. get over yourself well we're out