Russia launches huge overnight bombing of Ukraine

This BBC podcast is supported by ads outside the UK. It's time to see what you can accomplish with Shopify by your side. ASR does it. from a network of abusive men. And we've also got some terrific voices from the Winter Olympics as the Games draw to a close in Italy. We're going to begin in Ukraine, though, and that continuing assault by Russia, almost four years to the day since Vladimir Putin launched the full-scale invasion. The Ukrainian Air Force say that in the latest nationwide bombardment, Russia launched dozens of missiles and hundreds of drones. One man was killed and four children injured in the Kiev region. Boris Johnson was the British Prime Minister when four years ago Russian troops poured across the border. Speaking to the BBC, Mr Johnson said that the proposed deployment of British and other European NATO troops to Ukraine should not now wait until there's a ceasefire. There's no logical reason that I can see why we shouldn't send some peaceful ground forces there to show our support, our constitutional support for a free independent Ukraine. This is a political thing. It's about whether Ukraine is a free country or not. If it's a vassal state of Russia, which is what Putin wants, then obviously it's up to Putin to decide who comes to his country. If it's not, then it's up to the Ukrainians. The former British Prime Minister Boris Johnson. Paul Adams is our diplomatic correspondent and is currently in Kiev. Paul, I'll ask you to reflect on Boris Johnson's comments in a moment. But before that, this overnight assault from Russia, and also reports of an explosion in the western city Lviv. What can you tell us? Yeah, two sort of separate developments there, Tim. One, as you say, ongoing attack on Ukrainian infrastructure, energy facilities, as always, but also, interestingly, railway and municipal water supply infrastructure. And people are a bit worried that as the winter comes to an end, the Russians might turn their attention away from power to water with the similar desire to try and disrupt lives for ordinary Ukrainians. So that's been one aspect of it. But the incident in Lviv overnight was very interesting. Around half past 12, there was a report of a break in at a store in Lviv. The police arrived and then there was at least two explosions, which killed one 23 year old policewoman and injured about 25 more people, some of them quite seriously. Now, the Ukrainians say that within 10 hours of the explosion, they had detained a 33-year-old woman near the Polish border. And they say that there are grounds to believe, and I'm quoting here from the police, that the crime was committed on the orders of Russia. Now, this would not be the first case of its kind involving an episode of sabotage conducted by a Ukrainian civilian on the alleged instructions of the Russian special services. That seems to be the the line of inquiry that is being pursued by the authorities. And yeah, as I say, there's there's quite a long history of this. Hundreds of people in the last two or three years have been arrested for similar types of offences. May I ask you about that comment that we heard from the British Prime Minister Boris Johnson about trying to shake up the picture inside Ukraine by deploying British troops and I presume possibly also other European troops from NATO countries inside Ukraine before any putative ceasefire. I mean, what do you make of he's certainly been sort of one of the more gung ho leaders when it's when it comes to talking about Ukraine and supporting Ukraine. What do you make of the of this this plan from him or this proposal? Well, I mean, he is certainly one of the more gung ho and his name is held still in high regard here in Ukraine. I think it was quite telling in that clip that you played that he was a little bit vague and hesitant when he described exactly what this pre-ceasefire deployment might be. He said, you know, peaceful forces. He seemed to be struggling for exactly the right term. And I think that is quite telling. He's not the first person, by the way, to suggest that it would be a good idea not to wait for a ceasefire. The former NATO Secretary General Anders Föhr-Rasmussen said much the same in September. And there was an interesting moment at the recent Munich Security Conference when a frustrated Ukrainian MP asked President Emmanuel Macron why this wasn't happening beforehand. The argument, of course, is that as long as there is no ceasefire, then there are no foreign troops arriving in the country. And that is clearly suits Vladimir Putin very well. So there is an argument. Get those troops in and force him to the table. Paul Adams in Kiev. Thank you. The cost of this war, this war in Europe, is beyond most of our imagining. One way we can perhaps gain an insight is through the individual stories, such as that of Sergei Stachowski, a former professional tennis player who, in 2013, knocked the great Roger Federer out of Wimbledon. Four years ago, Sergei was on holiday in Dubai with his family, celebrating his recent retirement from professional tennis. Then, when we spoke to him here on the BBC World Service, Sergei told us that he'd left them behind and returned to Ukraine to fight. He's been serving with one of Ukraine's elite units ever since, and the BBC's Julian Warica has just caught up with him. I've changed, I guess, a lot in these four years. Really a lot. How, specifically? I guess it's not only me. I think it's all Ukrainians. We just got used to the circumstances we live in. We got used to losing friends. I mean, you never get used to go to the furnos, though. That's kind of tough still. And you got used to aerial alarms. You got used to shakets coming into the buildings next to you, ballistic missiles blasting all over your city. I mean, it's a bad adaptation, but I guess that what all of us endeavour and that we live in these circumstances. And I'm definitely much more confident in my actions than I was four years ago. And they don't scare me anymore as they used to. Which is what? sort of being hardened almost because you have to be hardened by what's been happening? I would say so, yeah, most likely. You become numb to certain things. Well, you do feel stressed, but it's a different way. You feel fear, but it's also in a different way. So everything is like fading away. But again, it's in my case, I guess. And I would say the only thing that's really left pretty stable is the eagerness to fight. It's not even the eagerness to fight, It's eagerness to bring some justice to this. And that's what drives you and others, is it? Yeah, it's still, for me, the same motivation. It's just the fairness and the justice of what's been done to us and what we have to do to repay it. When you've been closest to the front line, and you have been on a number of occasions... A couple of years I've been there, yeah. Yeah, I mean, when that's at its worst, What are you seeing? What's happening each day around you? Destruction, death, explosions, noise, no electricity, no water, no internet, no heat. And what's the camaraderie like around you as you all fight together? It's not a camaraderie, it's a brotherhood, I would say. It has more senses in a family member than a friend. And I've been particularly lucky with the group of people or any unit I serve because you can really come up with everything that bothers you, whether it's family or something else. And there'll be brothers who are willing to help and know how to help. And they actually care to help you so they know that if you're mentally in a good place, then you'll get the job done, which is very crucial, I would say, in this long lasting war. Sergei Stokowski speaking to Julian Morica from a voice in Ukraine to some voices in Russia which are not always that easy to gather shortly after launching its invasion the Kremlin introduced new wartime censorship laws in effect banning any opposition to the war the BBC's James Beardsworth was based in Moscow at the time of the invasion and he's been looking at how the country has changed over the last four years almost four years ago Russian President Vladimir Putin launched a full-scale invasion of neighbouring Ukraine. On that morning, I stepped out to a stunned Moscow. As I walked from Red Square and wandered up Arbat Street, I asked people for their reaction to the news. One person went mad and attacked another country. Everything will be fine. There won't be a war. Ukraine will be crushed and that will be it. For Ukrainians, the war would mean the destruction of cities, Millions of its citizens displaced and hundreds of thousands more killed and injured. In Russia, wartime crackdowns and sanctions were about to reshape life. New laws banned criticism of Russia's armed forces. Almost all the country's independent media organisations left. Anti-war protests, thousands of people were arrested. Vlad recalls how the war was felt not just in the streets, but also divided friends and family. My dad, he was so pro-Kremlin. We argued a lot. Last year he unfortunately passed away and we even never covered our relationship. Estimates say as many as one million people have left Russia since 2022. Many of those fled in the early days of the war, while a partial mobilisation in September 2022 led to another exodus. I was one of ministers in local administration. Mikhail, not his real name, for safety reasons, was a regional politician up until January 2022. After arguing with the governor, he lost his job. Ten months later, he received a military summons to go to Ukraine. After I knew that, I left Russia. After leaving to Kazakhstan, Mikhail flew to the UAE, then Mexico, and then walked over the border to the US, where he claimed asylum. I asked him where he is now. I live in my truck. So I'm a truck driver for three years and now I'm in my truck at Staten Island, New York. At the start of the war, Ilya Yashin was widely described as Russia's most senior opposition figure not in prison or in exile. I was in the park with my friend and suddenly a group of policemen came to me. They told me that the criminal case against me opened and from this day I spent 25 months in the prison. In August 2024, Yashin was released in a prisoner swap between the US and Russia. The deal came just months after perhaps the biggest blow to Russia opposition There been an outpouring of grief around the world for Alexei Navalny His death struck at the heart of Russia already beleaguered opposition Yashin told me more. Navalny death made a huge hole and it's very difficult to change Navalny to any other person. The BBC has identified the names of 186,000 Russian soldiers that have been killed in Ukraine. During that time, though, President Putin's popularity has continued to grow, according to independent pollster the Lavada Center. Jeremy, not his real name, from the small town of Naginsk in the outskirts of Moscow, says many of his friends support the war. The bigger threat to President Putin's popularity, analysts say, is Russia's struggling economy, weakened by almost four years of Western sanctions. When I used to work, I had a lot of money left for travel, for some fun. But now almost all my income goes to food. That instability and a war that continues to drag on means that for Mikhail, he doesn't know if he'll ever return home. Now I don't feel like I have homeland. I chose the way of immigrant. And that report by the BBC's Jane Spitz with This Is News Air. coming up on the program as the questions and the anger grow over the revelations from the epstein files we'll focus on the story of a survivor and what she would like now to happen my daughter's 12 about to turn 13 i look at her i look at her friends and i see how they are and it brings me back to the age when i was 13 and 14 and how innocent we are and how vulnerable we are and we just don't know it. Bringing also awareness to parents who don't want to deal with this kind of issue, don't want to talk to their kids about it. It is very important to set boundaries for your kids. And it starts very young. And I think it's very, very important. That interview coming up in about 20 minutes. Our main headline this hour, Russia has carried out another massive drone and missile attack on cities across Ukraine as the fourth anniversary of the war approaches. This is NewsHour live from the BBC. It's the final day of the Winter Olympics today. Canada and the USA have just begun their men's ice hockey gold medal match. The USA have just scored the first goal and we'll bring you an update later on an encounter which does come with added political edge. But if there's one contest which has already been conclusively settled, then that is for the greatest athlete in the history of the Winter Olympics. 29-year-old Johannes Hörsflöte Klabu from Norway. He's won six golds at these Games. His total haul across Winter Olympics is 11. And at these Olympics, he swept the board in all the cross-country skiing events, each one of which is gruelling. But winning them all is the running equivalent of winning everything from the sprint events through middle distance to the marathon. Ask him whether he's managed yet to draw breath. no I think it's going to take some time to really let this sink in actually but we were able to have a nice celebration yesterday I was able to eat a nice dinner with my my friends and family which which was nice and now it's a busy day today as well and then luckily we are going to head back home tomorrow so it's going to be nice to finally sleep in my own bed for yeah for the second time in 2026 so i'm looking forward for that yeah for those who maybe can't quite wrap their heads around what you have done you compete in one of the most aerobically physically demanding sports there is whether it be on on dry ground or in your case on snow and ice so it's not just that you're winning gold medals in a range of sports, but you're also doing it just one after the other after the other. It is a superhuman effort. Can you explain to me where it comes from? Because it can't just be that you've got gifted genes, which I'm sure you do have. So when I started, my goal was to do the sprint first. I thought that was an easier entrance to the whole World Cup and to be on the highest level. And then year by year, we have just been building the endurance. And I think for sure I've been lucky with my genes and everything, like in terms of like getting, being fast enough. But on the other hand, it's like, it's a lot of hard work over the years. And we are training like a thousand hours every single year. And it's a lot of races, especially now in the Olympics. But I feel like I've been so privileged that I did the same in Trondheim last year in the world championship and kind of knew a little bit in terms of what the challenge is so for me to to kind of do the same now it was just try to take race by race I felt like I just kept my calmness and I was was just always on to the next one so I think when I crossed the finish line yesterday was I was really tired and exhausted for sure but it's just also a lot of emotions that are just finally being relieved after kind of holding them back a little bit for the first five races because you know that you always have the next one. I know that you said that you're looking forward to just sort of relaxing, blowing off steam, getting back home, sleeping in your bed. I'm sure though that you are the most dedicated athlete and my question and it's slightly unfair because you've you know already achieved so much but have you any thought as to how long you might be willing to go on oh it's uh it's hard to say i mean i think my philosophy has always been that i will i will continue to do this as long as i think it's fun and that it's that i enjoy this um enjoy it so i think for me it's um that's the the most important thing and um as long as i do that i guess um it could be a couple of years but uh the goal is the um the next olympics first of all and in between now and then and I'm I'm I don't want to spoil your uh your time off at all but I mean you've got it is the most astonishing amount of work isn't it to get yourself in the sort of shape where you can you can compete for a goal in this most demanding of events I mean it's it's a crazy amount of work and I think it is a lot of people think it is a lot of sacrifices you know and And for me, I think the day I will start thinking about this as a sacrifice, I think then I will also find something else to do. The Norwegian cross-country skier Johannes Hussflut Klabu, probably the greatest Winter Games athlete of all time. Pakistan has carried out overnight airstrikes on Afghanistan, which the Taliban has said killed and wounded dozens of people, including women and children. This man close to the border said he'd lost most of his family. It was bombed and everything was destroyed. My children and family members were there. All of them were killed. Out of 22 family members, only four of us survived. Well, Islamabad has disputed the accounts out of Afghanistan, saying the attacks have been carried out with precision and had targeted seven militant camps and hideouts near the border. and they launched these attacks after recent suicide bombings inside Pakistan. Cathy Gannon is an Islamabad-based journalist and author and also the former Pakistan-Afghanistan Bureau Chief of the Associated Press. How significant are these attacks? I think it's very significant, actually, because there's an increasing escalation of violence in Pakistan carried out by militant groups. And the relationship between Afghanistan and Pakistan has been deteriorating. And add to that deterioration in relationship is the increased friendship between Afghanistan and India. Now, India and Pakistan have a long history of hostilities. So you have Pakistan sort of feeling sandwiched between Afghanistan and India. And the attacks overnight in Afghanistan is quite significant because it goes into Afghan territory. And it just raises the temperature here. The higher the temperature, the more difficult it is to step back. Now, Pakistan has been attacked quite regularly, particularly in the last few months, but certainly since the return of the Taliban to Afghanistan, they've been hit extensively. And in the last one month, we've had a suicide attack at a Shia mosque in the capital. And just in the last week, there were two fairly significant attacks on the Pakistan army and the Pakistan police in the border areas. And 11 Pakistani soldiers were killed in one of those. And what's the evidence that these attacks are being directed out of Afghanistan? Yeah, well, that's a very good question. The Tariq Taliban Pakistan, TTP, which is the Pakistani Taliban, has been taking credit for it, as has the Islamic State for some of the attacks. Now, even the UN reports say there are roughly 10,000 Pakistani Taliban in Afghanistan. And there's also Belouche secessionists with a history finding refuge in Afghanistan. And there are also Islamic State militants, both in Afghanistan and in Pakistan, which the Taliban has gone after the Islamic State. But Pakistan has repeatedly asked Afghanistan to hand over the Pakistani Taliban. And it's a real sore point between the two countries. And in terms of the sort of reaction we can expect from the Taliban, from the rulers of Afghanistan, I mean, Pakistan has insisted that these overnight attacks were precision ones on these militant camps. The Taliban have said actually lots of civilians died and they condemned them. But they've also said they will respond. Could we see, do you think, a military response? I think the response will be attacks against a border post in Pakistan, which has happened in the past. And that was Cathy Gannon, the former Pakistan-Afghanistan bureau chief for the Associated Press, speaking to me from Islamabad. This is News Air. Shopify helps millions of business sell online. Build fast with templates and AI descriptions and photos, inventory and shipping. Sign up for your one euro per month trial and start selling today at Shopify.nl. That's Shopify.nl. It's time to see what you can accomplish with Shopify by your side. I understand that you want to listen to your podcast, so I'll keep it short. Because if you think it's important to make a lot of choices, maybe Acer can help. Now I hear you think, how then? For example, when you're paying for the things you love to be a bad person. Want to know more about the insurance where a bad person can be? Go to asr.nl slash duurzamekeuzes. This is ASR for you and a more sustainable community. ASR does it. So, now you can listen to your podcast. Shopify helps millions of business sell online. Build fast with templates and AI descriptions and photos, inventory and shipping. Sign up for your one euro per month trial and start selling today at shopify.nl. That shopify It time to see what you can accomplish with Shopify by your side This is not the future we were promised Like how about that for a tagline for the show From the BBC, this is The Interface, the show that explores how tech is rewiring your week and your world. This isn't about quarterly earnings or about tech reviews. It's about what technology is actually doing to your work and your politics, your everyday life. And all the bizarre ways people are using the internet. Listen on BBC.com or wherever you get your podcasts. Welcome back to NewsHour. We're heading next to a school in Brazil. It's called Parque dos Sonhos. It's a park of dreams. Many people had given up on it a decade ago, but it's now won a prestigious international award, award, all thanks to the man who reluctantly took on the job of headteacher. The BBC's Ruth Pina has been to visit. When we got there, all the computers from the computer room had been stolen. And every day I would think, what am I going to find there? What's going to happen today? That's Maria de Lourdes de Lima, a teacher at Parque dos Sonhos, a public school which once faced constant breakings, theft and violence. But now it has been recognized as one of the best in the world. It sits between Latin America's largest port, Santos, and the steep mountains of Serra do Mar. In the early 2010s, the city ranked among the most violent in the state because it was often used for drug routes and the school was known for being dangerous, as it was completely exposed to local drug trade. Regis Marquis was invited to become principal because of his experience dealing with challenging schools' environments. Half of the students have requested transfers because they didn't want to study here. Regis set a big goal to turn the school into the best in the region within five years. He pitted the project as a way to give back. He argued that education is the best tool to transform the community and create a farrier society. Esther is a student and part of the theatre group. At first I thought it was just going to be the classroom, so I didn't like it very much. But then things started to grow. The school got new projects and today it's really cool because we're not just stuck in the classroom, there are lots of other spaces. Teachers began making regular visits to students' homes. They wanted to understand their lives and the challenges they faced when they aren't in class. At the same time, we started working on listening to the students, having a more humanised perspective, really focusing on them. What moves me is seeing this entire process, this transformation, understanding how the school can be a point of change. Last year, the hard work paid off. The school Parque dos Sonhos won the World's Best School Prize in the Overcoming Adversity category. And the transformation that brought the award home also had an impact on student performance. The school's official score more than doubled. Last year, Parque dos Sonhos served more than 530 elementary school students. This year, it will also begin offering high school, a new chapter for a school once considered impossible to save. And that was the BBC's root, Pina, on that school, the Parque dos Soños, which has really turned things around. You're with NewsHour. It's live from the BBC in London. I'm Tim Franks. We've yet to learn the full numbers of those killed in Iran's repression of the anti-government protests last month. One leading Iranian human rights group has just updated its tally to more than 7,000, but it's thought that the final figure could be many more. And yet, despite the brutality of that crackdown, demonstrators in locations across the country have taken to the streets over the weekend. Many of them were students, including these from Tehran's Sharif University of Technology, who clashed with a pro-government rally. The sound of university students chanting at their pro-government opponents, you people without honour. Further north, close to the Caspian Sea, lies the city of Lahijan. There, 40 days, an important moment in the calendar of mourning, 40 days after their mother was shot in the head during protests, the daughters of Parvane, Khojandi, Rad gathered with dozens of others and sang this tribute. Part of a song by Iran's pre-revolutionary singer Mahasti, which says, out of this death will come more life. These sounds of protests come against the rising tension between Iran and the United States. President Trump's special envoy, Steve Wyckoff, who's been heavily involved in negotiations with Iran over its nuclear program, says that his boss is questioning why Iran hasn't shown more willingness to back down in the face of the huge U.S. military buildup in the region. This is how Mr. Wyckoff put it in an interview with Fox News. I don't want to use the word frustrated. It's almost because he understands he's got plenty of alternatives. But it's curious. He's curious as to why they haven't, I don't want to use the word capitulated, but why they haven't capitulated. Why under this sort of pressure with the amount of sea power, naval power that we have over there, why they haven't come to us and said, we profess that we don't want a weapon. So here's what we're prepared to do. And yet it's hard to sort of get them to that place. Steve Witkoff on Fox News. The BBC's chief international correspondent, Lise Deset, is just back from Tehran and joins us now. Lise, very good to have you back on the programme. Just to begin with the repeated, renewed sounds of protest, what do you make of what you've been hearing and seeing out of Iran? Extraordinarily brave of these students to, again, raise their voices, to chant slogans like death to the dictator. When we were in Tehran last week, whenever we would drive by one of the universities, we would look and see the campus was quiet, that most classes had stopped. We were told that some of the students' unions had said, we cannot hold exams. This is not a normal time. We don't want to have a normal timetable because it isn't a normal time. As you mentioned in your remarks, that these protests are aligned with the 40 days of mourning, which is the last day in traditional Shia culture. It's a day of great emotions. But you also heard the singing and the music and the dancing. And this is another way in which protesters are starting to say, we don't like your system. We don't want your system. We don't want to seem sad, to be grieving. We want to see this as a time which could usher in a much better time for us. What is also different about these protests, Tim, is that at one of the elite universities where it seems the biggest, well, at least one of the biggest protests was yesterday and today is at the Sharif University of Technology. is there was a rival gathering of members of the Basich. The Basich is a volunteer militia, very, very much pro-Islamic Republic. They see their mandate as, in effect, a role alongside the Islamic Revolutionary Guard Corps in the defense of the revolution. There were some scuffles. If this continues with the rising anger and the rising counter-revolutions, this could get even more significant. We'll have it's one of those one of those moments in Iran. You just have to watch it day by day. And Lise, I mean, you have been visiting Iran for getting on for 40 years. Clearly, you were there at a time of terrific tension, both in terms of these anti-government protests having just been put down, but also, of course, the enormous US military buildup in the region. What is your assessment of how Iran is looking today, if it is possible to summarize? Iran is a different country now, and this is a very different moment. We've often mentioned during this crisis that it's been quite rare for Iran, which has seen these waves of unrest every few years to face a major external threat at the same time that it faces domestic upheaval. And so Iran very much finds itself at a crossroads. And as I mentioned, in terms of those rival demonstrations, it's a country which is pulling in two directions. I was really taken aback by how people, how many people came up to us in the streets and squares and markets saying, I want my voice to be heard. I may not want my identity to be known because it's still very dangerous for me to speak. but I want to make sure the world knows what I think. And people would break down in tears when we would ask a very open question. What is the main worry on your mind? The emotions are still raw after all that has happened. Lise de Sertar, Chief International Correspondent, just back from Tehran. Thank you very much for joining us. One of the biggest news stories of the week has been the arrest in England of the King's brother, Andrew Mountbatten-Windsor, over his links to the sex offender and financier Jeffrey Epstein. Mountbatten-Windsor has previously denied all wrongdoing. Epstein had been found guilty of soliciting prostitution with a child back in 2008. He continued, though, to traffic women and children for a decade after that, after finally being indicted again. He was found dead in his prison cell in August 2019. Sometimes in these cases, and the questions about who knew what, when, who was part of Epstein's network of abuse, the voices of the victims and the survivors can be drowned out. We wanted to try and redress the balance a little, and so my colleague Julian Warwicker has been speaking to Marina Lacerda. She met Epstein in New York in 2002, having emigrated from Brazil, and when she was just 14 years old. it's a story which by its nature includes some distressing details i met jeffrey epstein when i was 14 years old and really what led me up to jeffrey epstein is i think what you know a lot of the girls have some similar stories to mine you know i was very vulnerable i became the head of household at the age of 13 because my stepfather abused me from the ages of 8 till 12 and he went to jail and my mother never went to work and never took care of the house and blamed me for him, you know, to go. He went to jail and I went to the precinct and I told what was happening to me. And right after that, she really, our relationship fell apart. And I just wanted to do everything to make it back to the way our relationship was. And a friend of mine who was a good friend of mine had told me about Jeffrey Epstein and he was very rich and powerful and he, you know, had connections and I would go there for a massage and I would get $300. But when I got there, it was something completely different than what she had told me. He was very nice in the beginning. He had asked for my name and asking about what my life, you know, was and all these things and me being vulnerable, coming from Brazil, being 14, taking care of a house. I poured my heart out to him thinking he was going to help me And we were doing the massage He turned over and he was naked And at the time the girl had told me that I was going to take off my shirt and it was going to be just like me wearing a bikini And he had asked me to take off my bra And I told him that I wasn't going to. And I shook my head, no. And he went to go touch me. And I froze. And I just pushed his hand away. And the girl had said something that I was being a prude and not having fun. And she came around. And he was okay with it. He wasn't mean. He was like, it's okay. it's going to take some time for her to get comfortable with me. And she came around next to, you know, where I was and they aggressively did all sorts of things. And when he was done, he paid her and she gave me the money and she was upset with me that I didn't, you know, follow his orders. And really, that's how I got into Epstein's world. I read that when you were reached the age of 16 or 17, he told you you were too old for him. Is that right? So when I reached the age of 17, I started to work in a coffee shop in Astoria. And I had lied to that coffee shop and told them that I was 18. Because in New York, you have to be 18 to serve alcohol. And that coffee shop also served alcohol. And I was making a good amount of money. But I also started to wear makeup to look a little bit older. And I really started to just really be, you know, mature myself because I was around people who were much older than me. And Jeffrey Epstein really told me, hey, listen, you know, you're no fun. You don't bring me any more girls that are young because I was meeting girls that were over the age of 18. And he didn't like that. He said it jokingly, like, you know, you're just old and no fun. But obviously there was a lot of truth to it because right after that, it was like he broke up with me. You know, you know, when you just break up with somebody and he didn't break up with me by telling me, hey, I don't want to see you anymore. he just stopped calling and stopped reaching out to me. Can we scroll forward? Because you kept your identity hidden for a long while, quite understandably, in the minds of doubtless everybody listening. When it came to court in 2019, you were known only as minor victim number one. But in 2025, you decided to go public and reveal your identity. Why did you do that? I think there were a lot of reasons behind it, but I think I have a couple of reasons why. One of them, my lawyers had explained to me, you know, how important it was being a key witness and being that minor victim one, which really led the whole case to come out and have other victims come out and speak about their abuse and not be ashamed and not be, you know, scared to talk about their abuse, about this person who had claimed to be, who was saying that was, you know, a brain surgeon or was working with a model agency and was trying to be somebody that he wasn't. And it would be best if I could open up and speak about it so that other women could come forward so they can learn more about Jeffrey Epstein. And we could amplify our voice and, you know, make it awareness to the public like, hey, this is a real thing. This is not a hoax. And other reasons are Virginia Guthrie. You know, I went to her memorial, seeing her brother, seeing her sister-in-law, them talking and how much this woman had used her voice and was fighting for us so, so much. And lastly, my main reason is my daughter. My daughter's 12, about to turn 13. I look at her, I look at her friends and I see how they are. And it brings me back to the age when I was 13 and 14 and how innocent we are and how vulnerable we are. And we just don't know it. And I had to say to myself, you know, I need to speak. I need to protect this generation, the future generation that are coming, bringing awareness, bringing red flags, bringing also awareness to parents who don't want to deal with this kind of issue, don't want to talk to their kids about it. It is very important to set boundaries for your kids. And it starts very young. And I think it's very, very important. Marina Lissetta, a survivor of the abuse of Jeffrey Epstein. She was speaking to my NewsHour colleague, Julian Warwicker, on our sister programme, Weekend. This is the BBC World Service. We're going to return to the final day of the Winter Games now because one of the marquee events is underway and it has an even brighter spotlight on it than normal because it's Canada against the USA in the men's ice hockey final, a sport where aggression is valued almost as highly as technique and where these two countries have, let's say, a rather tense relationship, at least they have had since Donald Trump has returned to office. James Toney is managing editor at the news agency Sportsbeat and is in Cortina in northern Italy where the face-off is happening. James, end of the first period, tell us what's happened. USA are 1-0 ahead in what is a very tight and cagey game. And as you said, tensions between these two teams are very high. There was a fight within the first 60 seconds. So, yeah, Matt Brody scored early on for the USA and they lead 1-0. So very close and tense game at the moment. Yeah, close and tense. And, I mean, I'm not trying to give sucker to the Canadians here, but, I mean, the goal seemed to come against the run of play. Yeah, there is really nothing between these two teams. They're the number one and two ranked teams in the world. I think this is a real coin flip of a game. So, I mean, the big problem for Canada is they are missing their star player, Sidney Crosby. He is as big a star as you could get in Canadian sport. He had a big injury in the quarterfinals, sat out the semifinal, misses the final. His absence could be quite decisive. He's a big star in a big sport. And just to put this in some context, I mean, you know, I talked about some of the political tensions, but just in terms of how much ice hockey means in Canada. I mean, it's a big sport in the States, but in Canada, I mean, it's getting on for national religion, isn't it? Yeah, it's a civic right in Canada. It's a cultural cornerstone. When they play, they usually have 30 million people watching, which makes you think, what are the other 6 million people doing? It is something on a new level and a huge source of national pride. And as you've mentioned, with all of the things going on in the political world, the geopolitical context, this makes this game even bigger. The eighth time they've played in the Olympic final. The USA haven't won an Olympic gold medal since 1980. So there's a lot on this one. Yeah. I mean, do you think these are professional sports people at the highest level? Some of them are clubmates, despite playing for different countries. Do you think that at this highest level, the sort of political rivalries, the fact that leaders have weighed in, all that sort of thing, does it matter? Or do you think actually, you know, they rise above it because they're first and foremost professional sportsmen? We'd like to think that, wouldn't you? I mean, next week, they'll be jetting back to play in their respective NHL teams. A lot of them will be playing alongside each other. But when these two teams played last year in the Four Nations tournament, Trump gave a team talk to the American teams. Both anthems were disrespected. It does mean more. NHL players also haven't played at the Olympics for the last 12 years. So coming back and playing at the games, it just heightens it all, ramps it all up that extra level. James, Tony, I do appreciate you taking time. Actually, we timed it perfectly because it is just between the first and the second periods. But nonetheless, thank you very much indeed for taking time to speak to us. Now, let's move from sharp-elbowed rivalry to a tale of loving rivalry, if you can imagine such a thing, because one of the more touching stories from the Winter Games came on Valentine's Day, eight days ago, when Kim Mehlermans of Belgium and Nicole Sivera of Brazil both competed in the skeleton, that event where you hurtle down the ice headfirst. The thing is, Kim and Nicole are married, which made us wonder whether it's a bit awkward competing so publicly against your spouse. But let's start with a gentler question. How have the Games been? Nicole first. For me, my only other experience was Beijing 2022, and obviously that was during a pandemic, so it was quite a contrast experience for me. We were able to have our family and friends out here with us after the race, which was super special, and to be able to have them during the race as well and just to have the crowd there and just to be able to do more things and explore the town and actually enjoy the village. That was quite special comparatively to Beijing 2022. And Kim, how was it for you? I mean, you came sixth, which is a very creditable performance. Were you happy? Thank you. Were you happy with the way the race went? Yeah, I mean, we're small nations in this sport. We don't have millions in budget. So I think we did the maximum that was possible. I'm really happy with my performance. I think this was the maximum possible. And yeah, I'm happy with it. What it is like to compete against each other. I mean, in order to be an elite sports person, you do have to have a competitive streak. You do have to want to beat the others. And especially in individual events. Kim let me let me start with you and we'll see if Nicole answers any differently. I think we've come a long way I think it was very difficult in the beginning especially when we had you know difficult performances one had a good day one had a not so good day then it's obviously really hard to find the balance and celebrate but also be respectful of the others experience but I think the good thing is and that's what we try to do is look at skeleton a bit differently like we race against the clock we don't really fight against each other directly like we're not in a boxing match against each other so what the other does doesn't really impact our performance um so we try to separate it and just really do what we both can do individually um and try and keep our relationship separate uh at the end of the day but nicole i guess um yes in the moment you're racing the clock but in the all the preparation i mean you're talking about tips and techniques are those things that you share with each other completely? Absolutely. I think that's the beautiful part of our marriage and teamwork is that we can fully trust each other. I know when it comes to bigger nations, there tends to be a lot of secrets between athletes because they are competing against each other. But for us, I mean, I felt 100% that I could trust her and I could tell her everything I knew and she could do the same the other way around. and I think that was also the beauty of having the two of us is being able to teach each other and help each other out whereas in that way we were able to develop and perform faster and better compared to just having one brain and one person figuring it out alone, you know? And Kim, I guess the other thing that people are focusing on is you're a married couple and for those parts of the world where it's not possible for two people of the same sex to marry, I mean, that carries an important message as well. It definitely does, yeah. That was one of the things that I think, especially in Italy with the laws being reversed a bit when it comes to rights of our community, it felt important to us to, you know, it's undeniable we are married. So it plays a big role for sure. I think sports is a great vehicle to show younger kids that a lot is possible and that everyone gets the right to be themselves. Kim Melemans from Belgium. I also spoke to Nicole Silveira of Brazil. Sporting rivals, but also far more importantly, they are a couple, a married couple, and their wedding is coming up shortly. Well, their proper big ceremony is coming up shortly after the end of these games. So we wish them well. From all of us on NewsHour, thanks for listening. It's time to see what you can accomplish with Shopify by your side.