Trade Deadline Winners and Losers

coming up on the Zach Lowe show. The trade deadline has come and gone. We had all the blockbusters Tuesday, but we still got a lot to talk about. The Clippers made another super fascinating trade. Avicii Zubac is a pacer. We'll break down the mechanics of that trade. Why it's a risk for both, but high reward for both really fun trade. Anthony Davis is a wizard. What? What happened? I haven't talked about that yet. The Wolves made a good trade. I like that Wolves trade. We'll get to that. The Bulls. What are the Bulls doing? John Morant didn't get traded. Giannis didn't get traded. Talk about what that means. Who feels a little jilted? Who doesn't? What's going to happen in the summer? And then just a bunch of like Warriors did nothing. Spurs did nothing. Rockets did nothing. And some minor trades that went flying around. Lots to talk about. Lots to digest. Kurt Goldsberry is going to help us do that. And Kevin Pelton, the machine from ESPN.com, is going to come and give his winners and losers. We're going to riff on that. Fun trade deadline, some good deals, some stinkers, some confusing things, and no Giannis Antetokounmpo trade win for the Milwaukee Bucks and their fans. That's all coming up on The Zach Lowe Show. This episode of The Zach Lowe Show is brought to you by State Farm. Life's better when you've got the right help. Think of that perfect pass that sets everything up smooth, effortless, just what your team needed. That's the kind of assist State Farm offers. Whether it's online or in person, State Farm's your teammate. When you need help making your next play, State Farm with the assist. Coverage options are selected by the customer. Availability and eligibility vary by state. Welcome to the Zach Lowe Show. The trade deadline has passed. Giannis is still a buck. John Morant is still a grizzly. The Clippers made the two most interesting trades at the deadline. Some teams did some smart stuff. Some teams did some dumb stuff. Some teams did some confusing stuff. We're going to talk about all of that coming up. But first, I have to tell you about another live show. The Zach Lowe Show is coming live to the Brooklyn Paramount. New York City, the greatest city in the world. We are bringing the Zach Lowe Show live to you. the Brooklyn Paramount on Monday, March 16th. Tickets will go on sale this coming Monday, February 9th at noon. Go to theringer.com slash events for details. March 16th, Brooklyn Paramount. Bring your family. Bring your friends. Don't bring your pets. The Zach Lowe Show live, March 16th, Brooklyn Paramount tickets. theringer.com slash events starting on February 9th. Kirk Goldsberry is here. What's up? What is up, Zach Lowe? We are in a new era of the season. Yeah, we get to watch new teams play with new toys. It's all very exciting. Look, Giannis was the headliner. He didn't get traded. We will talk about that. I have not addressed the AD trade yet. We will talk about that. But this Clippers thing is just too juicy. I want to start here because it's the most recent big trade. The Clippers trade of Vita Zubats to the Indiana Pacers, who we talked about earlier in the year. Were they going to use the trade deadline to grab the center of next year's team? And they did. And the Clippers got premium, premium, premium picks from the Pacers in exchange for Zoo, who has three years left on a great contract. They got a 20-29 unprotected Pacers pick. They also got Ben Matherin, a little flyer on Ben Matherin. Maybe he stays, maybe he doesn't. But most importantly and most interestingly, Mr. Goldsberry, They get the Pacers 2026 first round pick in this Ballyhooed starry draft. If it falls at number five, six, seven, eight, or nine. If it's one to four, the Pacers keep it. If it's 10 to 30, the Pacers keep it because the Clippers don't want that. They only want the – and there was a lot of haggling over this. I was told, can we do one to two? Can we do one to three? One to four? is where the line is drawn. That is such a juicy pick. And right now, Mr. Goldsberry, the Pacers have the third worst winning percentage in the NBA. If they finish at third, that would give them a 52% chance of that pick landing in the top four, and they keep that pick. I'm going to assume that's what they want. Maybe they don't care. Maybe they would just like the obligation to extinguish, or they view that as a happy downside or something. If they get to the fourth or fifth worst spot in the standings, that drops to a 45% chance that the Pacers keep the pick and a 55% chance that the Clippers get the pick. If they win their way all the way to the sixth worst record in the NBA, this is the precipitous one. 37% chance they keep the pick, 63% chance they send it to the Clippers. If I'm gaming this out, all the hype I've heard about this draft, I'm going to assume that the Pacers want to maximize their chances of landing a top-floor pick in the draft. And we are set up not only for a fascinating trade, which we will talk about, the tankery down the stretch of this season is going to be beyond outrageous. We have the Wizards who owe a top-eight protected pick to the Knicks. I think I'm getting word. Anthony Davis just got stuck in the elevator doors in his new building in Washington, D.C. They closed faster than he expected. He's got a bruise on his arm. He's out for three months. Utah, top eight protected pick to Oklahoma City. They just got Jaron Jackson Jr. How the hell are they going to do this? What are his other teams losing? Indiana, we just talked about. The Pelicans, the Kings, and the Nets remain the Pelicans, the Kings, and the Nets. RIP to the illustrious Cam Thomas era on the Nets. The Mavericks, they kind of are a little tanky. The Grizzlies, they're kind of a little tanky. And then we'll get there, but the Bulls, whatever the Bulls did, they're kind of tanking the season, but it's just way too late for them to catch any of these teams. And the Clippers are getting a little tanky, although Darius Garland will hopefully play soon. But they don't control their pick. So who gives a crap? It's going to be a tanktastic end to the season, but let's start with the Pacers and the Clippers because this is a reminder. Pacers have been out of sight, out of mind. This team was a game from winning the NBA championship. They're getting Halliburton back, 50-50 shot at a top four pick, and they just addressed the biggest hole on their roster in the wake of Miles Turner leaving for Milwaukee in that disastrous wave and stretch sign combination that the Bucs did, in getting a really good two-way center in a beats of Zubats on a good deal that's like $6, $7 million cheaper than Miles Turner. And you're looking at Halliburton, Nembhard, Neesmith, Siakam, Zubats starting five, McConnell, Toppin. People forgot about Obi Toppin. Yeah, people forgot. Big-time player off the bench for them. Jay Huff slides in as a backup five. These young guys who, other than Furphy, haven't really developed the way that you hope, but you've got Ben Shepard, Walker, Furphy. they're a little too close to the tax to use the mid-level exception but i love this trade for the pacers they paid a dear price for it uh the jazz did make a run at at um i'm sorry the pacers did make a run at walker kessler but i don't think they offered the jazz quite what they offered the clippers for zubats i i think it's worth it because this team comes in next year absolutely loaded and i think this is a super fun trade and i think it's great value for the clippers what do you think oh man so many thoughts uh i love this player for the pacers perfect fit i love this guy he's been one of a lot of our favorite like sort of most unheralded nba center for for years so it's gonna be great to to watch him play in a better basketball environment than the clippers have given him for a while um and yeah the the protections thing annoys me like they they have the too many protections act like if it's a prime number under 19 the clippers get it uh this one it's going to make the lottery fascinating by the way i mean i just you know i love the lottery i i just it's it's just the stupidest most exciting thing i can't wait yeah but now you're gonna have you know like whatever's left of the clippers front office and i'm sure we're going to talk about that in a second and then we're going to have the the this moment where the pacers are either going to get somebody else like a Cam Boozer or a Darren Peterson. And it's fascinating, too, because most of the draft experts look at this draft as four great pieces and then good after that. It's not a huge drop off, but four really, really solid prospects. So that protection that I'm sure you said they negotiated, that's not a small part of this. That's the whole negotiation is how much protection is on the top end of that pick. And then does it convey, does it turn into two seconds? I don't know, but that's an electric moment for the lottery. No, I'll tell you what it does. If the pick goes, if the Pacers keep that pick this year, it becomes an unprotected 2031 pick, which not a bad consolation prize. It's smart for the Clippers to say, we don't want your unprotected 2027. You're still going to be really good. Then give us a further out one. So I think regardless of what happens in the lottery, the Clippers got very good value. But obviously, five to nine, that's a spot where they think they can get a real player. And if you talk to the scouts, like it's a deep top 10 draft. The people love 10 players in this draft. Four have set themselves apart, but there's not a big cliff there. The Clippers are the more interesting part to me. I mean, the Pacers are competent. This was a gap year. They've set themselves up for a potential lottery pick and Zubac replacing Miles Turner. They've been competent here. I'm excited to watch them play basketball at full strength next year. But, Zach Lowe, my question for you, my guy, what's going on in LAC? What are the Clippers doing? I mean, I like both of their transactions, so I think they're doing okay things. I think this is good value for Zoo. Yeah. Niederhauser, the guy they drafted last year, gets a minute. I've liked one. I've seen him play. He gets a real shot now. Obviously, they're not tanking because they have no incentive to. In fact, if you look at the play-in standings, Portland should throw a party because everybody behind them pulled the ripcord, and the Clippers in front of them made a little step back kind of moves. But I think this is good value for Zubats. I think Harden for Garland is a nice outcome for the Clippers. it chips away at their cap space in 27, which they've been very precious about. But we also don't know, like, right now Kawhi has no money in 27-28. He'll be an unrestricted free agent after next season. I heard no Kawhi trade buzz at all the entire week. I wonder if he's, like, just kind of a clipper for life. But I'm interested to see why are you making the fingers? What are you getting at? I'm sure you called a bunch of the wind horse fingers. I know. I'm sure you called around and heard some, like, I have conspiracy bill written on my board here for a reason. There's people around the league who's like, oh, they're trading everybody except one guy. I wonder what's going on. There was no buzz around Kawhi Leonard, but there was a lot of, you know, obviously they moved Zubach and Harden. Is there something else happening? That's the thing I can't get away from in my phone conversations trying to explain what's going on with the Clippers. What you're implying is do they know that something is coming? Did you hear that from your calls or is it just the weird people I'm talking to? It's going around. From what I heard when I checked in, let's say the investigation is not over yet. It's not over. So I don't know exactly why that's going around. To me, all of these moves are explainable through basketball and trade value logic. I mean, no buzz for Kawhi. I mean, does any team – I just don't – I mean, I think they're two decent moves for the Clippers. And, frankly, I was most excited, Kirk, to talk about the Pacers because – Yeah, let's do it. No, no, continue. Finish up on the Clippers. Do you think they're not good moves? I like Zubach. I don't know why. He's a great contract. He's very good. He was like borderline All-NBA last year. Yeah. Yeah, I heard you and I watched you and Bill on Netflix earlier. How about that? But yeah, I like Zubach. I like the number. I heard Bill say he had him an All-NBA last year. I love the player. I don't know why you're trading him. It's just like I guess I'm going further back, Zach Lowe, when I'm wondering about the Clippers. Hey, we won 19 of our last 24 games. Things are going good. I did not expect them to be sellers at this trade deadline that we're dissecting. I think that's my, I did not expect the Los Angeles Clippers to be selling parts at this deadline. What I'm struggling with in the dot connecting is why fearing a punishment would make them sellers. Yeah. What is the connection there? Can you explain that to me? Anything from doing the player a solid. Hey, it's about to get crappy around here. I'm going to get you out of here. That's what I've heard. You're right. That is what I've heard. But again, it seems to me like a little bit of the NBA gossip girl stuff. Like, how would you know that this is happening? This law firm has an incredible reputation. Are there really signs that this is happening? Like, I anticipate a punishment myself. I just I don't pretend to know exactly what that might look like. So until proven otherwise, I am going to assume that the Harden move is what it looks like, which is we didn't pay you multiple years. Right. We're not good enough to win the title. We're not going to pay you multiple years because we're ready to try to reorient ourselves for whatever our next year looks like, a.k.a. we have tons of cap space, et cetera. And let's work together and find a solution that gets us something. And it got us serious Garland. And the Zubats, like Zubats is 29. if you're going to pivot off of him now is the time to do it his value is not going to get higher than it is now with three years left on his contract or whatever it is and he's already taken a small step back this year but I think that is mostly the first month of the season he's been about zoo like since then so I'm until proven otherwise I'm going to accept these as explainable basketball moves at face value I can go there with you for sure but yeah that was just the unmistakable sort of subtext of a lot of the phone calls I had talking about this one I think the Pacers you're really excited about and you mentioned Rick Carlisle is a great coach they're gonna have to play a little bit differently I think with Zubac than they have with Miles Turner but I trust him and his like this is a guy who's been to the finals a few times with very different basketball teams so I anticipate that they'll still have a pretty pacey Halliburton-led attack, but it might look a little bit different without a stretch five in that offense. Yeah, totally. And the upside of that is Zoo, I think, is obviously a much better post player. You switch, you have a mismatch on the block. He's much more adept to punish that. He's cage-ier with the basketball. Nimbler is a passer. Nimbler in the short roll just feels the game better than Miles Turner and had awesome pick-and-roll chemistry with James Harden, and I think Tyrese Halliburton will figure that out. And Siakam has really proven himself now as a spacey big man. Like, his three has really stabilized, like, around 40%. He's a real legit threat to hit threes, and so if you have to use him as a spacer more, I think that's fine, and Rick Carlisle will find solutions for all this. I just would, if one of Shepard, I mean, Jairus Walker has been hot lately for the last couple weeks. They're going to need one of those two guys without Matherin to make a little bit of a leap next year. McConnell's getting a little old. Huff looks great for eight minutes a game, and then sometimes when you play him more than that, it doesn't look as good. But I love their starting five, and I love the fact that they're just planting their flag. Like, yeah, remember us? We're back next year. So Detroit, New York, Philly, Boston, Cleveland especially. Cleveland, I think, would argue they feel like they're one of the big winners of the trade deadline because no one around them in the East made any kind of earth-shattering move. The Knicks got Alvarado, which I really like for them, particularly with Deuce McBride hurt. He's having, I think, sports hernia surgery. Will be out to the playoffs, according to Fred Katz, our friend Fred Katz at The Athletic. I like Kevin Herter for Detroit, but these are not like earth-shattering moves. Cleveland made a big move. and so but like i like indiana being like you better get out of the east now because we're coming back remember how we embarrassed you and you you couldn't get a free throw rebound and we danced all over your home court we're coming back with a beast in the middle yeah i agree and i i think we all like that team i think that team has a very high approval rating so far so it's it's a nice addition to the eastern conference which is sort of thin let's say that uh down the ranks but yeah dude i i like the point about new york not really doing anything people around the league told me they really thought Cleveland got better. Now, what you think about the wisdom of trading a 26-year-old for a 36-year-old in the midterm or the longterm, that's fair. But Cleveland is better now than they were a few days ago. I think that's one of the attitudes around the league. But yeah, I still think Indiana presents as a potential huge player in the Eastern Conference going forward, and I can't wait to watch it. A couple of leftover thoughts on the Garland-Harden swap, which is the other most fascinating trade of the deadline that I did not, I think, articulate as much previously. Harden is a minus defender. We all know that. And I mentioned how in Mobley and Allen, they should have the infrastructure to cover for him. What he is, and I think this matters to the Cavs more than I gave her credit for at the time two days ago was he's he's bigger and stouter than Darius Garland. And so it's one less guy like when the Celtics would hunt Garland mercilessly with Tatum and Brown. It's one like Harden is not it's not a pushover like that size wise. And I think that that matters to them. His errors are more just sort of spacing out, getting back cut, not hustling. And like that, that all matters, too. What's not persuasive to me is this idea that I've heard buzzing about, well, that, you You know, Harden is going to come back on a short-term deal, potentially. We don't know what Harden's future is, but Garland has two years left on his contract at 40-something apiece after this. Let's say Harden's contract largely mirrors that. Let's say they give him a 1 plus 1 or something like that. So in the short term, it's kind of a financial wash if that proves to be the case. They don't get any apron tax-related benefits or anything like that. But I've heard it saying, well, you know, they were going to have to make a decision on Garland eventually. He's young. He wants an extension. It could have eaten into their cap going forward five, six years, and they sort of got out of one big long-term commitment. I'm not buying that as a rationalization for the trade, because if Darius Garland wants an extension, who cares? Just don't give it to him. You're under no obligation to give it to him. You just say you're hurt all the time. We're not giving it to you, and you address that going forward. But I still just look at it as if all you care about is this season, the Cavs are better this season. If all you care about is the next two seasons, they may actually just be better the next two seasons based on availability alone. But it is still an astonishing vote of no confidence in Darius Garland, the guy you drafted and developed and liked and just decided he's never going to be healthy. 36-year-old with a horrific track record in the highest leverage games. Come on in. Yeah, and I think it dovetails that with sort of, and I'll bring it back to the Cavs, But one of my big sort of macroscopic takeaways from the 2026 trade deadline is that small guards are losing value in the NBA. And we saw it across the league. I heard Bill Freeman on his show with you earlier today saying everybody wants to get big. I'm going to sort of frame it in a negative way. People are afraid to be small. And John Morant, Trey Young, Darius Garland, maybe throw Cam Thomas in there. There's this sort of player type that's market value is pretty shockingly low the last couple of weeks here. And Darius Garland, selling Darius Garland like that fits into that mold. And can you get me an extra possession with the rebound? Can you switch on defense? Are you going to hold up in the playoffs? Some of these smaller players have a harder time answering that. and Darius Garland's availability has certainly been a big red flag for the Cleveland Cavaliers this year so that's a sort of a trend and when it comes to Harden and Mitchell the other thing I like that Harden does is he takes some of this burden off of Donovan Mitchell to make plays I do I'll listen to anybody says yeah how's it going to work when they're both out there I think that's a fair question but it also gives them a pretty potent stagger of one of these dudes is going to be running our offense the whole game long. And that's pretty good for any team, let alone an Eastern Conference team, to say. So overall, like I said, I think Cleveland is better. I think Garland just wasn't available. Harden is. So I agree with you. The next year or two, I think they're going to be a better basketball team because of this. And it's on Darius to prove him wrong, getting better, and playing better long-term in the Western Conference. I talked about the stagger stuff The fit stuff Hardens drives and free throws I talked about all that on the last episode People should go listen to that If they want more on that trade But yeah Just win your series in five games Don't get to game six and seven If you can avoid it Alright let's take a quick short break here And then we're going to talk about The Wiz The Zach Lowe Show is brought to you by FanDuel. FanDuel's putting you in control right from tip-up. That's right. You get to choose your reward, play it safe, go for it. Feeling bold? Okay, that's your move. Whatever your style, you're in control. No matter how you play, FanDuel's giving you the power to choose your reward and own your game this NBA season. Head to fanduel.com slash low to make your pick, get in the game, and play it your way. 21 over in president select states, or 18 over president in D.C., Kentucky, or Wyoming. Often required rewards are now withdrawable. Restrictions apply, including bonus and token expiration. leg requirements and max wager amount see terms at sportsbook.pandle.com gambling problem call 1-800-GAMBLER or visit rg-help.com call 1-888-789-7777 or visit ccpg.org slash chat in Connecticut okay another big trade that i haven't addressed yet anthony davis is on the wizards What happened? The Wizards traded Some salary for some players That are going to be fungible For the Mavericks, Chris Middleton being the biggest Salary of that And two first round picks The Thunders pick this season So number 29 or 30 And the Warriors pick Protected 1-20 In 2030 I think that just If that doesn't convey It just rolls over to nothing And then some seconds for Anthony Davis. I don't recall anything quite like this, Kirk. A team that's just abysmally bad, like very early in the rebuilding process, without like an obvious generational centerpiece prospect. I think Alex Starr is going to be really good, but he's not Cooper Flagg. He's obviously not Wambanyam. He's not that kind of like, okay, now we're just everything is about this guy. still pretty raw young court like even Bilal Koulibaly is in his third year is pretty raw offensively not having a great year shooting the ball etc just sort of like waking up one day and Trae Young and Anthony Davis like to whatever you think of them Anthony Davis is top 20 player when he healthy Probably still Trae Young is probably top 40 Like I don remember a team this bad and this early in its rebuilding process just kind of falling in to two top 40 players like, oh, I guess we can get Trae Young and Anthony Davis. Didn't really plan on that, but it's costing us players we don't really want and some crappy draft picks. I guess we'll do it. What is this? What does this amount to? I have no reporting on this, so don't read into it. But I remember a previous appearance on the Zach Lowe show where I said part of the Trey Young rationale, because there were reports that the Washington Wizards were having a hard time selling tickets and making money in the old-fashioned ways of the NBA. Now they have famous basketball players on their team, and they might drum up some excitement and some season tickets and sell some sweets. I think there's some of that. I also think it's an opportunity, and I think they didn't give much away to get, as you described, two top 40 basketball players. And for whatever reason, as you said, they fell in their lap. So it's an interesting, interesting image. The picture that came out in this day and age, we get these rapid Photoshop images of Trey Young there standing next to Anthony Davis in their fake Photoshopped Wizards uniforms. And it just looks weird, man. It looks weird. And there was a stat on NBA Reddit that I'm going to read to you, Zach Lowe. The Washington Wizards will now finish with fewer than 50 wins for the 47th consecutive year. So this is an organization that has never had success in my lifetime. And they are desperate to change that. I don't know if it's ownership pressure, but they saw an opportunity. And by gosh, they went out and they got Anthony Davis, didn't they, Zach Lowe? I think they would say a few things. Number one, we have to spend this money. Like the salary floor is now 90 whatever percent of the cap we got to spend it. Yeah. We didn't give up any of our actual good trade ammunition. We have all of our picks. I think they have one more extra pick coming and an extra swap or two, all of our own swaps. Like if we want to make a blockbuster trade, we can do that. And also, like we were never going to be in a position to compete in the picks race with like Memphis, Brooklyn, Oklahoma City, Houston. Like they're just not loaded for bear like that. And then, you know, there's like, ironically, we're talking about how the race, these protected picks are going to make for a crazy tank race this year. The lottery yards are meant to incentivize bad teams who try not to be abysmally bad. And I think this is a rational decision that looks at that. And then the Thunder pick, I think, was burning a hole in their pocket. Like, I don't know if they can even roster another young player so they could have traded it for a few to future seconds or whatever. and four future seconds, whatever it is, they decided to do this. And it's kind of like no harm, no foul to me, except for this. I don't know what's going to happen with Trey Young's contract going forward. He has a player option for next year at $49 million. I'd love, if I'm the Wizards, I'd love for him to opt into that. And then, you know, we'll table it until the end of next season. Anthony Davis is guaranteed next season $58 million. Has a player option for $63 million in 2027-28. I don't think he's getting an extension as part of this deal. I could be wrong. Something could happen in the summer, and this could be completely wrong. I heard from other teams that were in the AD ecosystem, like we know who those teams were, that clutch by the end of the trade negotiation process had sort of realized the extension just isn't going to be there. But that $63 million player option still scares me a little bit, except the Wizards have all rookie deals that year, basically, except Kulip Ali, who no one's breaking the bank for him. So I don't even think they care if he opts into that. So I guess it's like no harm, no foul. Let's win some games. Maybe these guys make it easier for our young players to play secondary, tertiary kind of roles. And, like, look, Trae Young's destiny has been to play with an elite defensive center. Like, it's why I always like the idea of somehow getting Trae Young and go bare on the same team, like polar opposites as players, but somehow they fit together. So I don't know. I mean, I don't have any. My hottest take, actually, on this trade is why did Dallas do it? Yeah, I think they wanted to. What's in it for them other than just, like, the optics that we just got to erase? We just have to, like, eternal sunshine, the spotless mind this entire last year out of our lives. They got to get young. They got to get young, and I don't mean Trey Young. They've got to get young next to Cooper. And so the OKC pick conveys no matter what, right? It's just going to be 30. Detroit's coming. Yeah, we've got good picks. Yeah, Detroit's coming. They might pass them. It might be 29. Hey, but when I worked at the Spurs, we were 28, 29, 30. We've got DeJounte. We've got Derek White, Kyle Anderson. You can get good players there. and I think Dallas saw an opportunity to do that. They need to put talent next to Cooper Flagg in a Western conference that has young cores in OKC and young cores in Houston and young cores in San Antonio. They aren't going anywhere and Anthony Davis wasn't part of that long time, that long term future. One interesting thing that I have to ask you about with this trade though. What if Anthony Davis doesn't like being a Washington Wizard? Are we sure he wants to play basketball in Washington? He's a very prideful guy. He's one of the best players in the league when he's healthy. Is he going to be okay playing or not playing in this franchise that, let's face it, hasn't been great? He wants to compete. He still thinks he can be a good player on a championship team. Is this going to work for him? Is there going to be any conflict there? Look, are you going to be surprised if Anthony Davis has a great first 50 games next season and the Wizards flip him for extra value to somewhere else where he can be for a championship? I won't be surprised. But I'll give you some suggestions that could help with this cause. Number one, the Wizards is – I'm just – I think it's just a bad franchise name. It's cartoonish. I can't take them seriously. Their uniforms stink. All of them except the cherry blossom ones, which they've done away with. Bring those back. Make them the core. Look. Dress for the part that you want. Dress for the job that you want. You're dressing to be a bad AAU team right now. Dress for the job you want. I'm not going to besmirch their mascot, G-Wiz, which is kind of gonzo with a wizard's hat on. I'm just going to say this. Jackson Hayes. too yeah jackson hayes don't mess with the mascots okay adam silver sent you a message you shoved g-wiz all g-wiz was trying to do he or she was jog off the floor after their jolly day i guess their jolly pre-game routine you hip check them on the ground let me tell you this not only did adam silver suspend you for that deservedly so the other mascots are watching don't you know you're walking down a dark alley you see a little a blur of red behind you it might be benny the bull it might be bending the bull with the bag of popcorn okay just watch yourself jackson hayes hey proud of you for for forgetting the the pronouns there right i'm not i'm not aware of what's going on with the pronouns in the mascot space never going to pretend to be but as a professor at the university of texas little disappointed in jackson hayes uh the longhorn great didn't like to see that that's that's not what the mascots are there for they're not there to be beat up or pushed around or shoved. They're there to entertain the kids, Jackson. Let's let them do their job. Sleep with one eye open, Jackson Hayes, because Pierre the Pelican might be standing over your bed one night. Or worse yet, that baby one from the – King King Baby? Oh, you don't want King King Baby in your life, man. That thing is scary. Okay, Anthony Davis. Dallas. I mean, look, they traded Luka Doncic for Anthony Davis, and they traded Anthony Davis for some expiring salaries and some bad picks. That is – and Max Christie's thrown in there too. That's about as depressing as it gets. I just don't – like, I don't think they were going to struggle to get this equivalent deal in the offseason, and maybe they could have done something better. I just think this is, I mean, look, Anthony Davis had very little trade value. That's the reality. Part of that is a huge part of that is his contract. But another part of that is that he's injured and a team getting him doesn't know how reliable he's going to be for the end of this season or the end of this playoff run. I just, you know, I think it's an okay deal for the Mavericks. I completely understand why they made it. To get any positive draft assets in a midseason trade like this with Anthony Davis is probably okay. I just, it's just not that great of a trade. But for the Wiz, I mean, look, you could roll out. Well, how about this? What do you think of the Saar-Davis double big pairing? I love it, actually. AD has played four and five. I don't see why Saar can't play next to him. I don't know if they need to define who's the four or who's the five. You know, I tweeted a stat that Anthony Davis, I don't know why his reputation doesn't follow him. He's statistically arguably the worst jump shooter of the 2020s. If you look at guys who have shot over 2,000 jump shots, Zach, since 2020, it's 121 players. It's not a short list. He's dead last in efficiency below guys like Giannis and Westbrook who get roasted all the time for not being able to shoot it. So when I look at that specific combo, is Sar going to be able to shoot it? Because AD really doesn't stretch the floor. That would be my concern. if they can't do that on offense. But defensively, I think it's a nice look, obviously. And Washington, I'm glad you're sitting down. Wizards, traditionally not a great defense. The Wizards traditionally are bad everything. They're in the quadrant of woe. I might rename the quadrant of woe on the efficiency landscape to the quadrant of whiz. Yeah, whiz land. Anthony Davis left his jump shot in the bubble. and Alex Sarr part of his development this year has been taking fewer threes as a full time five 33% and so but defensively I think it should work fine and both of them have some amount of face up game I think it's worth a shot like you do with Harden and Mitchell you stagger it if you need to a starting lineup of Trey Young either Kulab Ali or Trey Jay who I really like Keyshawn George is good Sarr AD that's fun I can have Champagny come off the bench I can have Will Riley come off the bench I need a backup big one of Johnson and Koulibaly comes off the bench it's a representative team that could chase a play-in spot next year for sure I texted House on another chain saying you now have to take the over next year you're mandatory taking it and we said what would the line be and I was like maybe 34 and a half something like that and take the over, I don't know and I just don't again, in Dallas' defense I don't think Atlanta was really in it by the end And Toronto, I think, looked at it pretty seriously, but obviously didn't meet this price. Warriors, I don't really think were in it. Milwaukee, who was one of my desperation AD teams, they obviously had a lot going on and pivoted in other directions. And the Clippers were my other sort of desperation AD team, and they pivoted in other directions. I don't know if they had anything else. Anything else on this one? This is just like, I just, I'm just sort of flabbergasted. There were a lot of trades that left me like, okay. Yeah, there was a lot of those this year. The question I'd end the segment on is how many games will Trey Young and Anthony Davis play the remainder of this season combined? Combined. I'm going to put the over-under at 10.5. Yeah. You think that's too high? No, I just think it's, and I know this is what we're not podcasting about, but we talked about the tanking earlier, And I hate the sort of acceptance of so many probably healthy guys not playing basketball. I just hate that for when I go to games, when other people go to games, when I'm on league pass. I just hate that. I wish the league could figure out a way that these guys are just not going to play. That's just acceptable now. I just don't like it. And it feels like it's increasing, not decreasing, Zach Lowe. The other flabbergaster trade, as long as we're here. I was it was 1145 last night East Coast time and I get the alert Atlanta has acquired Jonathan Kaminga and Buddy Heald versus Christoph Sporzingas. I just like looked at my phone. Just like what what even like like an alien had landed in my house like what what is this? What why is anybody doing this? What is going on? Warriors of course did Pretty much nothing at the trade deadline Which doesn't surprise me Warriors fans are going to be mad But you look at the list of players who actually got traded I'm not really sure What was there for them And obviously trading Kaminga for A stretch five in theory But in reality a guy who just doesn't play And Porzingis is disappointing Given all the hype Does Kaminga and Jalen Johnson And Dyson Daniels can they all play together Is he a good fit in their random DHO heavy off. I have no idea what to make of that. Do you have another small-scale flabbergaster? Well, that one's a good one, and we talked last time I was on about too many canards. Well, one less canard in Atlanta. He's a Laker now, but now they have Kaminga in there, and I did talk to somebody who thought Kaminga wasn't going to be an Atlanta Hawk for very long. I think they would love to flip Jonathan Kaminga in the summer. Boom, do it. Yeah, so I think that one uh in terms of flabbergasted everything the bulls did i don't want to to rehash everything you and bill said but you're just sitting here watching the bullet points of their trade deadline and um i kind of like simons and dillingham like give them a shot but it was funny to see like the internet reacted they have eight guards now no they have nine guards now oh they're back to eight guards. But what was the general purpose of Chicago's trade activity over the last week? I don't have the answer to that. I think that would be my flabbergaster. On Kennard, the Lakers traded Game Vinson in a 20-32 second round pick for Luke Kennard. It's the only second round pick the Lakers had left to trade, actually. It's kind of a valuable asset for them, as overrated as I think second round picks can be. They're useful to bundle, but that was the only one they had. Kennard is just, is so, he shoots 40 to 45% from three-light clockwork. Teams get him, and they're like, yep, we're going to, he's going to shoot more for us. We're going to put him in pick and roll. And, like, he has three good weeks. And then, like, yeah, the defensive limitations. All of a sudden, he's on the fringes of the rotation. And then he's traded. And I know Lakers fans are probably disappointed that this is all they did. I think this is exactly what I thought they would do, which is a whole lot of nothing. like a fringy move doesn't really cost them much. They were never going to trade a first round pick for DeAndre Hunter or something like that because they can get to the summer with three first round picks to trade cap space, some amount, a large amount, depending on a few variables, including Austin Reeves cap hold and the time of his contract. And I think they're just going to save their ammo for that. They know, they know this is not a championship team. They're not going to blow their assets for a marginal upgrade that makes them from whatever they are now to .05% more likely to win a playoff series or something like that. So that's the Canard trade. We'll hear all about, well, Canard, man. Luke will unlock him. LeBron will unlock him. And then he won't play. And that's just the reality of Luke Canard. Speaking of the summer when teams have three picks to trade and all of this, Giannis was not traded. There he is right there looking mean. And then he did the He Instagrammed the Leo clip from Wolf of Wall Street about it. I'm not going anywhere. There's a lot to digest with Giannis not being traded. Give me your general – where would you like to start? I'll start here, and I know we have a great discussion coming. I was annoyed. I'm going to look back at the trade deadline of 2026 with a sort of Zach Lowe classic. This is annoying. This is annoying behavior. I don't like all of the tweets that don't result in any kind of payoff. That is very anticlimactic, but it's also annoying. I find myself very annoyed that nothing happened. But beyond that, I think it's the best move the Milwaukee Bucks had. I think it's the best move the Milwaukee Bucks had just from a basic. And I told you the other day, it's like it depends on how awkward it is in the facility or in the locker room or whatever with the guy. And if it's tolerable, the best move here is to get to the summer. Why? The market's bigger. You have more time. There's more draft capital to be moved around. It makes a hell of a lot of sense if you're the Milwaukee Bucks front office. The other thing it does, and I had multiple people tell me this, and this is why I think his tweet is really relevant, Zach Lowe. It gives them a real chance with their own draft capital expanding to win this guy back one last time. Giannis, are you sure you want to move on from Wisconsin? Look at us. We won the championship together. We'll use our three picks now that we have three picks this summer we can use. not just this one, not just Kuzma. We can package all sorts. Who do you want to try to get? We'll get, it gives them a chance to keep the player again. So I think there's two things that make it better for Milwaukee as a team. Obviously, the trade market gets bigger, but it gives them another chance and a better set of tools to keep Giannis and try to extend the Giannis on the Takumbo era in Milwaukee deeper into the 2020s. the only downside as you weigh the balance is, do we lose leverage because he becomes an expiring contract? Yes. And if he actually decides to do this, he can now dictate with more pressure where he wants to go. And actually don't, I think Milwaukee was correct on a number of fronts to conclude that downside is not so severe and may actually be non-existent. I think if that were to happen, the list will still be broad enough that they will gin up an offer that is as good or better than the best thing they could have gotten today as team after team after team sort of fell out of the bidding. I don't think this is going to be a New York or bust. I think it'll open up and it or it could open. The other thing is maybe it doesn't happen at all. And it kind of slid under the radar in the 24 hours to the trade deadline. But Giannis gave two on-the-record interviews, one to Eric Neem at The Athletic and one to the Journal Sentinel, where he talked a lot about how much he loves Milwaukee and basically said, what I want is to win here. You're saying that if you can convince – I'm quoting Eric's article now. You're saying that if you convince me to stay within the team in the next year that we can compete, oh, yeah, 1,000%, 1 million%. And obviously leaving the door open to, and he said earlier in that piece, I want to win. I don't want to be fighting for my life to make the playoffs every year, which is this, this season. So there's always the balance of winning versus Milwaukee. But it's clear he actually wants to stay in Milwaukee if he has his druthers. And so maybe the Bucs are correct to say, well, we're going to get a – now, how they negotiate Giannis' playing time for the rest of the season is going to be fascinating because, as we all know now, they get the worst of their own pick or the Pelicans pick. The Hawks get to pick the best of those. So they're incentivized to try to get another high pick, either as a trade asset or to go to Giannis and say this is a building block that we can move forward with. And I think all of this is correct by the Bucs. And the ultimate leverage is, and this was a very interesting conversation I had with somebody today, the ultimate leverage is are you willing to risk just letting him walk for nothing because we've seen teams do that before like the thunder were going down with the ship with durant the heat were going the heat and the calves 1.0 were going down with the ship with lebron now the difference is they were going down with the ship for teams that could have won the championship they were legitimate inner circle top title contenders in those years 2010 for lebron 2016 for durant etc the bucks are not that right now could they be that at the end of the summer of 2027 it seems incredibly far-fetched but in this conference with this player and some draft luck and another rabbit out of the hat you never know and by the way Giannis he's 31 and he has calf injuries we know those things are true he's having the best offensive season of his career like he's not 35 and he's not declining this is the best offensive season of his career he's the third best player in the NBA and like with a bullet and you know, because here's, I guess, short, shorter version. You saw the tweets today, right? About anonymous NBA source saying, well, they were never serious. This was never serious. And you would hear that was a waste of everyone's time. It was all a charade and blah, blah, blah. I don't know if that's true or not. Here's, here's what I know. All these teams that were in on it. And I think at the end, it was really Minnesota, Golden State Miami and it looked like Miami was like the last team in because Minnesota pivoted to their trade Golden State pivoted to their trade it's really just because Miami had nothing else to pivot to they just did nothing and were cool doing nothing and waiting till the end I would put it like this those teams had had real conversations with the Bucs I think Minnesota was running around seeing what other stuff they could get to augment their trade offer for for Giannis in theory. Miami had basically made an offer and was waiting. And I think from what I gleaned, there was frustration among those teams for sure. They were all along skeptical that a deal was really to be had, but there were real discussions. And how can I put it? No team that I heard from anyway, got to the point where it was usually you get to a trade and you get the phone call that says, we will do this trade. If you give us these five things, we will do it. It never got to that. It was always general concepts or, you know, that kind of thing. It never got to like, we do it if you do this. But I don't, what I don't think is fair is people just then just throwing shade at the bucks. Like it was all charade and they weren't serious. It's not their responsibility to do what you want to do. If they wanted to do a fishing expedition in case they get bowled over by a crazy offer and failing that, pull out at the last minute, this is Giannis Antetokounmpo. This is their franchise. This is their franchise, their entire franchise. This is the first champion in 50 years, the head of their first championship team. I don't blame the Bucs for a second for how they went about any of this. I think in the summer, it's going to be very interesting because you could argue that he is actually a player that's worth letting go for nothing if that's what it comes to. So I don't know what's going to happen in the summer. Maybe we go to the – everyone's like, well, here we go again. We're going to have to do this in the summer. Maybe. Maybe we will. And if we do, there are going to be more teams that are involved, potentially. But maybe we won't. Maybe it just ends with Giannis being like, you know what, I flirted with it. I had weird public statements where I said one thing and then I said another thing and no one knew what to make of it. No, I'm just never going to leave. He's the most interesting person in this saga. I think we're on the same page, Zach, that the Milwaukee front office, actually given their shitty predicament, handled this pretty well, got through the deadline. There's a brighter situation for them now that they did. But I also sort of come back to what Bill was saying with you earlier on his what are we doing list And he had Giannis the individualist number one And I think that especially powerful in comparison to James Harden James Harden is really good at making the choice that I no longer want to play basketball at this place. I'm done here. Get me out of here. And he pulled it off like that. For whatever reason, Giannis is not going to do that. That's not his personality. and to Bill's point, we'll continue. This could be his best year as a basketball player on the planet. And I think that's where Bill and I sort of share the point. It's like, dude, you're kind of wasting it. And if I'm your agent, I'm not sure I want to give Milwaukee's front office any more of my prime to try to prove that they can build something around me because they've had four or five swings here and they haven't done it since the Drew Holiday trade, since the championship. They've made mistake after mistake. They've drafted poorly. They haven't hired good coaches. You and I have talked about that. But again, I think it comes down to Giannis' attitude and his own vision for what he wants to do. And people who know him very well have told me that he's one of the most stubborn people that you'll ever meet. And he's a very proud person. And that those qualities lead him to kind of wanting to stay in Milwaukee and prove everybody wrong. And that's what his tweet was today. Real G's aren't going to just take off when the going gets tough. I'm going to stay here and I'm going to attract people here and we're going to do it my way. And I think that's where we're at. So, A, let's just do that then. And B, there are a couple of differences between Giannis and Harden. Number one. Well, no, I'm not even saying character-wise. I'm just saying, number one, Harden was traded very early in his career. So he, right off the bat, sort of lived in the world where you feel fungible. Number two, Harden hasn't won a title. Giannis has won a title. Giannis has no, like, sure, two, three rings. Does that elevate you up whatever imaginary pantheon we're creating? Maybe. He has nothing to go. He has no thing, no unfulfilled quest to go search for. and there's clearly part of him I take all of this from afar as like this is a very human thing that's going on. He's not quite certain what direction he wants to go to and he's thinking about it and it's hard to make these kind of huge definitive choices. Part of him wants to be a one team guy that has a late career renaissance on the team level in Milwaukee. That's not implausible. It just might take a couple of years for the Bucs to really build it back around him And, you know, so in the meantime, everyone's going to go through all the teams that get, you know, Miami will have four picks to trade now. You know, what does Orlando do if they crap the bed in the playoffs? The Spurs, the Rockets, the Thunder have all the assets in the world. One of those teams is going to have a disappointing playoffs. Do they come into it? Does Boston come into it? Does Cleveland decide to put Mobley into it? Atlanta, who controls the draft assets that we're talking about. But the Bucs now get to not only sort of sift through those offers if they ever get to that point, but they get to know where everybody's pick falls. There's all these things, like Toronto, would they ever get back into it? Brooklyn, I don't think, was in it much this week, but they have all the assets in the world. What if they sign a free agent? Like, all of these ifs could happen, but we could also get to a world where Giannis just squashes it and the Bucs hit this out of the park. And maybe hitting it out of the park for the 26, 27 Bucs is like a 48-win team, but with some pathway in the next season or two before Giannis is 34 years old or whatever to be really good. So I don't know, man. It was a weird – it's been a weird – it's been a weird thing. I don't – but I will say I don't worry about them, the Bucs, losing leverage because he's a tick closer to expiration. I think the offers will be there if they get to that point. Yeah, I agree. And I had the same point about there will be a bigger market in part because there's going to be disappointed teams after this postseason. There's just too many teams that think they're going to the conference finals, the conference semifinals, that are not going to get there. There's not enough space for all those teams that we have slotted in. And teams, we've seen it for years, teams that have those kinds of disappointments are often buyers in the trade market around the draft time. I just, strange. it does feel at first blush like, I don't know, it will be interesting to see what Miami's pivot is because they're in a strange spot just sort of on a macro franchise level after trading Butler last year. They're just okay this year. I think they really, more than any of these other teams, even more than the Warriors, I think, were hoping that luck would favor them with Giannis. They get four picks to trade, they'll have all their young guys, all that, but It felt for a second like they were the last team standing. Part of that was sort of just the way the dominoes fell, and it felt like maybe they had a chance, and now it's going to be open for everybody. I don't know. Any final thoughts on the deadline you wanted to get off? It just feels like, again, related to that, it feels like fewer teams are willing to package up a bunch of first-round picks. I think by my count, we saw 49 players traded. These are probably wrong, but ballpark, 35 second-round picks traded. and nine first-round picks traded, in air quotes, because a lot of those have the kinds of protections and rules there. And so I just think in this CBA era, the draft picks, Zach, they've always been important in the NBA, don't get me wrong, but it seems like they're more important than the Sam Presti model of, like, I just want a lot of first-round. Other teams are watching, and there are less teams that are willing to throw out a bunch of picks. It doesn't mean there's none. It just means, in my belief, that first round pick market is smaller than maybe it was five or ten years ago when we started doing these trade deadline shows. it also like I think one of the reasons the Wizards went ahead and did this Davis deal is they concluded if we rented out our cap space this summer next summer whenever you know will give us your bad contract but give us an asset to take it that they would not get a great first round pick or anything like that to do it I think the Mavericks when they got Chris Middleton would have happily flipped Chris Middleton's expiring deal for your big contract that runs an extra year that you don't want, like a Zach Levine or something like that, if you give us a first-round pick. And I just don't think teams, partly because contracts are just shorter now, are willing to attach a really good first-round pick to dump that kind of money. And it's just those kind of deals just weren't there. And I should have mentioned on the Mavs, getting any first-round picks is good for a team that doesn't control its first-round pick after this year for several years. But I still just don't love that deal for them. All right, Kirk Goldsberry, you're nailing this like usual, man. Good to see you. Thank you. Go see your dogs. Hey, you have done a lot of podcasting today. You are in fine form. Thank you, Zach. I'll see you soon, buddy. Thanks, bud. Kevin Pelton with a Seahawks hoodie. It's been too long, my friend. How are you doing? I'm doing well. This feels like old times, certainly, to come on after the trade deadline. How are you feeling about the Super Bowl? optimistic, probably dangerously optimistic, but a little nervous about this Nick Emanwari injury that just cropped up on Wednesday. So, you know, a guy going to be nervous about that for the next 72 hours or so. What is your Super Bowl watching game plan? Well, I am going to be in Maui this weekend, not having necessarily expected when I booked that trip to Seahawks to be in the Super but a traditional post-trade deadline trip. So I don't yet have a place to pick out, but I've heard that there are tons of Seahawks fans there, Seahawks bars. So I think we'll have some good options. Okay, that's good. You've got to either watch it alone or with your people. You cannot risk watching it with impartial people who will not understand your misery or glee or enemy people who will rub it in. Okay. I used to write for ESPN.com a column winners and losers of the trade deadline. I used to write that as well. You're not writing it this year, so I'm going to steal you and say, give me some winners and losers of the trade deadline. So I will let you lead off, pick a winner, pick a loser. And I said anything, any type of winner, loser, whether it's a team, a conference, an aspect of the NBA, a player, whatever, do whatever you want. So pick something. I mean, we're going to get more esoteric as this goes on, But I think you have to start with the Oklahoma City Thunder in terms of everything besides Sheldris Alexander that happened this week. Yeah, I don't think a controversial pick, suffice it to say. But, you know, the most interesting story to me of the trade deadline is that the Thunder were the only above 500 team that traded a first round pick. They were the only team that even is headed to the postseason that traded a first round pick, which is pretty wild to think. then you add in you know whatever degree the Clippers sort of downgraded in the moves that they made which you know certainly they did to some degree uh that you know benefiting their pick they're going to have this year and I do like the Jared McCain trade for them so you combine all three of those things I think Oklahoma City a great week for them so McCain from the Sixers to the Thunder Sixers get under the tax McCain was obviously buried to some degree behind a whole pile of guards although with Paul George out for 20 whatever games due to suspension I thought they could have used him a little bit and in exchange the Thunder give up the Rockets 2026 first round pick so it'll be where where is now like 24th 25th something like that uh and three seconds and as you pointed out in your column classic Thunder like they got some guys that are expensive now or about to become expensive and in comes a guy on a rookie contract who can help now like I think he could play in the playoffs for them now for sure, let alone in the regular season when half their team is injured right now. It's a good trade for them. And, you know, let's talk Sixers then because I don't have them as losers. I just want your view on – you mentioned how none of these above 500 teams traded a first-round pick. Obviously, the Cavs made a big trade, and there were some – you know, the Knicks got Alvarado, and the Pistons got Kevin Herter, but no big seismic thing other than the Cavs trade. The two fan bases that just anecdotally to me seem the most angry with their teams in action are Philadelphia and Golden State. Philadelphia ducks the tax, does basically nothing to upgrade a team that's been playing well. Embiid is on a great run. And the Warriors, you know, there's this constant like they need to do more to put talent around Steph. And instead they make this weird Kaminga heel for Porzingis trade. What do you make of those teams' foregoing win-now sorts of moves? I've been a Sixers skeptic all season, and I do have to acknowledge that probably the last week or so have started to turn me because obviously Joel Embiid has been playing at this renewed all-star level for an extended period of time here. But for a while, it was kind of like we were yada-yada-ing over that, yes, Joel Embiid plays great, and they need a game-winning jumper to beat the Kings or whatever the situation is. Like the results were not as impressive as Joel Embiid's performance was in that stretch. In the last week, I feel like, including going into the Bay and taking down the Warriors, like I feel like the results have started to catch up with the hype a little bit. So from that standpoint, I get it's disappointing. I do think it was a little tricky when we did our annual dunked on mock trade deadline exercise. I had the Sixers. Didn't end up doing anything of consequence in that, though. I tried, you know, kick the tires on a few different things, particularly Najee Marshall was the guy I really had settled on. It's a great name target for them. But obviously someone who did not move this week. So, you know, maybe they tried and Dallas wasn't interested. So what exactly they were going to do, but to create this salary flexibility that they did. I mean, maybe I guess there's there's some way that they plausibly, you know, go big on the buyout market with because they did create three roster spots. That was interesting. They didn't need to make the Eric Gordon trade necessarily after they had traded McCain to Oklahoma City. And they still went ahead and did that and have signed a couple of guys to 10 day contracts. So they do seem to be keeping some optionality. Maybe they have a buyout play up there. And they're going to convert Barlow, right? Right. I would. If that hasn't happened yet. Yeah. So Najee Marshall is instructive to me because a lot of like you go through the players that were traded, like not that many difference making players were actually traded. Like no one who's going to get you to Philly and say, wow, now they're a title contender right off the bat. And a lot of the players that were traded are either small guards or centers. And that's why you zero in on Aji Marshall, because like I thought of P.J. Washington as a guy that if I'm Philly and I'm going to throw a pick or two at. But like he trade restriction after the extension. Exactly. Like not even tradable. And those positionally guys are like are are hard are hard to find. Golden State, I mean, I'm sure they offered whatever they could offer for Giannis to the point about impact players changing teams. He didn't change teams. I don't look at a – is there a player? I'm struggling to find like a – this is more, I think, accumulation of we didn't get Markkanen, we didn't get Paul George, we didn't get Ananobi, we didn't get Sokka. They did get Jimmy Butler. I mean, so I don't know. How do you feel about the Warriors? Honestly, I kind of feel like it was other than Giannis, it would have been shuffling deck chairs after Jimmy went down. Like, who are you going to get that's going to be replace everything that Jimmy brought to the table? And they already like, you know, I was encouraged by the play in January against a relatively weak schedule. But were they good enough to win the West with Jimmy Butler? No, they needed to have Jimmy Butler and make an impact move at the deadline. So just making an impact move without him, to me, I think would I'm not sure, I guess, what the point would have been. And like, wait out the honest thing. Maybe you can get back into it this summer. The Porzingis trade was a little bit confusing to me from the standpoint of, like, is awesome. Is that stretch five fit is for the Warriors and has been obvious for a long period of time. To me, it was now surpassed by the need for size on the wing. The need for, you know, second unit playmaking when Steph is on the bench. You know, those to me were the biggest needs. But again, maybe to your point, like, well, who was the guy they could have traded for? Like, you know, there was talk about, is there a Kaminga Wiggins swap and bring him back or something like that, which we did in the mock deadline. But he didn't move. You know, the players of that ilk didn't change teams either. And Kaminga didn't really have a strong market in part because the Warriors buried him for most of the season. But whether he deserved it or not is immaterial. That's what happened. That stunted his market. They didn't want Malik Monk. They probably at some point could have gotten a crappy first round pick from the Kings, like heavily protected. And that point passed. And, you know, this is where they are. All right, give me a – oh, by the way, just – oh, Philly, what did you think of the idea that Philly could have pursued Giannis had they put Vijay Edgecombe and all the picks they can trade, which is not very many, on the table? And obviously, Paul George, did you buy any of that? I mean, I think that Milwaukee has to hold media about that if they're getting offered Vijay Edgecombe. That's, you know, when you look at his age, his contract, all of those factors, Like that's about, you know, I didn't see where he is on Bill's trade value list, but he's got to be way up there based on what we've seen from him as a rookie. Is that like the guy for Philly? Like, you know, pairing him and Joel Embiid, I don't know quite what that looks like exactly. But so I don't think I would have gone that direction as the Sixers. That would be, to me, too all in on now when there's just reason to be excited and optimistic about the future because of Edgecombe and Tyrese Maxey. Yeah, I don't think they were ever going to entertain that. Paul George's contract also complicated, but I've said this before. To me, every decision the Sixers make has to be about the Maxey timetable and not the Embiid timetable. and, you know, yes, Giannis is sort of, you know, still at 31, can serve any timetable because he's that good, but losing Edgecombe certainly chips away at the timetable that I care most about. One thing on the Bucs, I mentioned with Goldsberry that the idea that, you know, maybe the Bucs are willing to just let Giannis' contract go all the way through it. If he walks, he walks, comparing it to Durant with the Thunder and LeBron with the Cavs. And I said, you know, those teams were contenders. the Bucs are, as presently constructed, don't look like a contender that could change. The difference is the Bucs don't control their picks. I should have mentioned that. They don't control their picks going forward in a whole bunch of years. But anyway, okay, give me another winner or loser, KP. Yeah, I mean, maybe we've already covered this, but I would just say the concept of loading up at the deadline. And there were, I think, some teams that had the opportunity to do that that passed on it or made minor moves in the case of Detroit. Like, they were sitting there in this kind of command position where they're way under the luxury tax. They have big expiring contracts, most notably Tobias Harris. I thought the idea of going out and pursuing a big-time power forward to go with this group, I get their patience, and maybe they just didn't like the fit if Michael Porter Jr. is probably that guy. If it's not Giannis, who kind of a surprise, we'll get to that later, the fact that he didn't get traded at all. I thought that was an interesting opportunity. And then San Antonio has these big expiring contracts too. Harrison Barnes still playing an important role for them. but Kelly Olenek, Jeremy Sohan, the fact that he didn't get traded is maybe one of the sneaky surprises at the deadline, given how little he's played lately. So I thought there was something there for the Spurs to do, but I guess both of those teams sort of thought we want to see, like, a deep playoff run with this group before we make any changes around it. The Pistons at least did something, which was turn Jaden Ivey and some other stuff into Kevin Herter, and they got a pick swap from Minnesota in the process, which could help, and I thought about Herter. He could help them, gives them a little more optionality as a two-way-ish player. On MPJ, from what I heard, the Nets had really nothing close to actionable on him. I don't think Detroit was in on him at all. I don't think the Warriors were in on him at all. And I don't mind the Nets keeping him. He has one year left on his contract. He's been an all-star level player this year. I don't mind them keeping him. And Spurs, I'm glad you brought up the Spurs. you can't label them a loser because it's like Valhalla there now with Wemby and Castle and Fox and Harper and all of this upside in youth and the most exciting player in the NBA and they're sitting at number two in the West and it's just all Valhalla I'm like you I was dead set dead certain that they were going to make some marginal move I didn't expect a big move but I expected Sohan plus four seconds, Sohan and Olenek plus a heavily protected first in a swap or something to get one more guy in, whoever that guy is, like Najee Marshall or somebody like that, whatever the matching salary would be, just to get one more good rotation player in and fortify them for the playoffs. But obviously they didn't find anything they liked. I haven't really gotten a lot of great intel on what they were searching around for, But I am, like you, a little surprised that there wasn't anything there. Yeah, and again, maybe just not a great match. I mean, you know, they probably were not in the guard market, too, for obvious reasons with their depth in the backcourt. So, you know, at that point of guys that changed teams, you're looking at sort of the, you know, there's some shooting specialists at off guard, Kaminga. There's not really like a clear fit that did change teams. So, you know, again, could have been the same thing where they poked around and didn't like what they found. Can I pick a loser? Go for it. All the veterans who are still on the Sacramento Kings. Zach Levine, yeah, he's got his player option. Fine. He's not really losing. Sabonis, who I think badly wants to be on a winner. DeRozan, who just is existing there. Monk. I don't even fault the Kings for not – I don't think any of those guys had a huge market. I've said all along I think Toronto's interest in Sabonis was overblown. I think Cleveland is a team that has looked at Sabonis here and there, but I don't think there was a real way to do it. And they're just, I guess we're just playing out the string in Sacramento. Just really depressing stuff. It's amusing that the two guys that they were able to move were the players that they added last summer in terms of Dennis Schroeder and Dario Saric. And, you know, there could have been a construction to that Cleveland deal, I suppose, that included Malik Monk instead of Schroeder. Would have been a bit more money for the Cavaliers. So, you know, significant is they consider like the possibility of, you know, if there's a way to restructure Harden's contract using the player option where he ends up making, you know, taking enough of a pay cut that you can get under the second apron next year. But I do think Malik Monk maybe in some ways would have been a better fit in Cleveland than Dennis Schroeder would be. Another loser. Can I pitch you another loser? John Morant. I don't really think there was anything going on there. I think the Kings would have done it for just dead money, no assets. Maybe they would have considered it. I just shouldn't say I think they would have done it. I think they would have considered it for Zach Levine and a second or something like that. Nothing that Memphis would do was there for them. I don't know, man. I don't think Miami was really in on it. I'm struggling. What other teams were even – Milwaukee, I'm not sure. They were up to so many things. I'm not really sure if there was anything there. What other teams were mentioned? Toronto, maybe. I don't think anything was there either. I don't know. You know, and now it just becomes like when he comes back from this injury, when he briefly came back, like in the, what did he came back in one of the Europe games and then a little bit after that, he looked like engaged and playing hard. And now the trade deadline has passed and he's still the Grizzly and the coach is still the coach. We'll see. Okay. Pick a winner or a loser. Yeah. I also don't really have a good feel of like what the Grizzlies look like the rest of the season in terms of filling the Jerry and Jackson junior void. Do they have any big men on their team? Even Jock Landale is on the Hawks. I thought that was a sneaky good acquisition for the Hawks. Do the Grizzlies have a big man? Like a center? Who's ambulatory? Edie's hurt. Clark is hurt. It doesn't appear so. Taylor Hendricks is like, I think, profile now as a backup five. They don't have any centers, unless you count Kyle Anderson as a backup. But there's all these fours who are fives. Santi Aldama, I guess. I'll tell you this about Santi Aldama. People who don't watch the Grizzlies, Santi Aldama has a lack of conscience as a shooter, as wide as any player in the NBA. That dude shoots with the confidence of Michael Jordan. And I love it. I'm happy to watch it. He just will let it fly at all times. Alright, winner or loser? Let's do a winner because we've done a few losers. I think the The 2027 Eastern Conference race got somewhat more interesting based on all of this, because, you know, to the point, the Pistons, these other teams kept the powder dry. Obviously, the Pacers make the move for Evita Zubac, which, you know, probably has a significant impact. It might have the most impact on the 26-27 playoff race of anything that happened before the deadline. Obviously, it doesn't matter this year, but next year, quite interesting. And then Boston, with their ability to get out of the luxury tax this year, because it means they will not be in the repeater tax in 26-27, gives them the opportunity to use some of these trade exceptions, that sort of thing, add backup in terms of salary, maybe re-sign Nikola Vucevic or use him in a sign-in trade. And I think we'll see a much stronger top of the Eastern Conference in 2027 than we did this year, in part because of what's transpired this week. Yeah, very exciting stuff across all of those teams. Can I pick another winner? Sure. You, me, Bill Simmons, the flying Knipple siblings, and everybody associated with the Charlotte Hornets because they are making the play-in tournament. They're one game behind the Bulls who made a whole bunch of trades that will make their team worse. They sold Kobe White from the Bulls for Colin Sexton and some second-round picks. That's an upgrade. They then recouped a couple of second round picks by helping Orlando duck to tax and taking Tyus Jones. The Hawks are like the Hornets are on fire They been a legitimately really good team for a third of an NBA season now They coming for a play spot and they get in there let say the Hawks are in there with them, the Magic, the Heat, they could absolutely get into the playoffs, and if they're, like, this starting five is pretty legit with Bridges and Diabate. They just upgraded their bench with Kobe White. They're going to put a scare into someone in the first round if they get into the playoffs. So, like, entertainment value of the Eastern Conference first round goes up, like, 4,000% if the Hornets are in it. Yeah, especially if Eric Collins and Del Curry, now that they've both got national gigs, are involved in calling some of those games. And that's one of the best parts, especially because they've been playing all of these early games where they've been all by themselves on league pass. And I've, you know, just been sitting on the couch during the afternoon watching the Hornets and watching Eric Collins lose his mind. It's great stuff. and Del Curry highlight every player who wears number 30 in the entire league. I mean, they're tremendous fun to watch. I'm so glad that those guys have a team worthy of their excitement and their talent for the first time since, you know, LaMelo Ball's first two seasons in the league. And they are legit. One of the interesting storylines of the season to me is, you know, there was so many of these teams that came into the year, like with these uncertain depth charts at center based on their offseason. Boston, Charlotte, Indiana, all in the East. I mean, obviously Charlotte's, you know, goals were different than those other teams, you know, or their track record. But, you know, people didn't, who hadn't seen Moussa Diabate, who were not watching League Pass. Yeah, the Moosiers have added to the entertainment quotient. People were watching, grinding League Pass in 24-25, didn't know. But Moussa Diabate is really good. Ryan Kolkbretter has been very solid for them, better, I think, defensively than I expected him to handle the transition to the NBA. So you look at them, Boston did end up making the move for Nikola Vucevic to upgrade their center rotation, but have gotten really credible play from Nami Eshkeda and Luka Garza in that spot. And then Indiana, it's like the complete opposite, where even though Jay Huff is blocking all the shots, he's not making enough of the threes consistently, and therefore they went out and made one of the most aggressive moves of the deadline, whereas those other two teams, you know, again, Boston, a smaller move, and Charlotte didn't need to do anything at center. Yeah, I mean, Boston center rotation was the one and only reason I was pessimistic about their team. I took the under at 41.5. I think I'm going to be wildly wrong. Their centers have been awesome. Diabate was always good, to your point. I think there was, first of all, he was a good backup, and I think there was some curiosity of could he be a starter would he be he did not open the season as a starter I don't think Charlotte expected him to hold up these undersized as a five hold up like this for 30 minutes a game if need be he's been absolutely outstanding like the hardest playing player in the NBA and just an awesome guy to watch and the Moose Antlers come up a few times a game it has been really interesting I like the Vucevic move for Boston And you're right, Indiana's center situation didn't pan out. I think anything on the Kobe White fit in Charlotte? I mean, they have a lot of perimeter shot creation, but just any hedge against Lomelo missing a few games with his ankle or just fortifying the bench, I think he's an upgrade over Sexton. To me, it's pretty obviously a nice trade for them. I think so, too. I was a little surprised when I went to go look at it. Sexton's actually been a lot more efficient than Kobe. Yeah, he's actually been good this year. You're right. And their assist rates are closer than I would have thought. Like the career are pretty different, but it's mostly because of Sexton's Cleveland days since he got to Utah. You know, they've been pretty comparable. So I was kind of surprised by that. But the all-in-one metrics still love the impact on Chicago's on-off that White has had. And I guess is this where we talk about the fact that Chicago finally traded all the guys and didn't get any first-round picks? Let's talk about Chicago. Because they're one of my world's favorites. they traded lots of people. They got nine second-round picks, I think. They got Rob Dillingham, nice second draft guy. Jaden Ivey, nice second draft guy. Simons, expiring, whatever, we'll see. I'm sure Leonard Miller, we'll see what he amounts to. And they traded White, Desumano, Vucevic. Am I forgetting anybody? I mean, Dale and Terry, some other guys, Julian Phillips that went in and out. It was half their roster. They even traded Leonard Miller's brother, who was on a two-way for them. So that was an interesting week. And, you know, some of the seconds they got, like the four seconds they got from Minnesota for Desumna. Two of them are crappy. Denver's second this year. Cleveland's second next year, I think. And then two of them could be good. They're like the most favorable of X teams in 2031 or 2032. And so I texted a lot of people I trust around them. Can you explain to me what the Bulls are doing? And the explanation that I got back was obvious. I understood it already, but it was, well, they're just accumulating assets. They're finally in asset accumulation mode. They're maybe tanking the rest of the season. They have huge amounts of cap space every summer going forward to do who knows what with. I'm like, yeah, I get that. I get that. That's obvious. It's too late for them to tank the season. They're way too far ahead in the standings of all these nine teams that are legitimately taking the season. So they can't really do much there except hope to get Cooper flag-like lucky in the lottery, moving up 10 spots. And more to the point, they traded an aging center in Vucevic, right? That makes sense. That's what a rebuilding team does. They sold low and late. That should just be the Bulls motto for the season, low and late. after paying through the nose to get him. Fine, it happens. Some people hang on too long, cling to love. But then they traded a 25-year-old guard who's pretty good in Kobe White and a 26-year-old guard who's really good in Io DeSumno. And it just leaves me wondering, what do they want? What kind of players do they want? They want Josh Giddey and they want Matos Muzelas. But what are they trying to do that both the old guy and some of the mid-career young guys are all just rendered expendable for second round picks. I just kind of don't get it. Can you help me? Yeah, I think that's fair. I mean, I do think like Jaden Ivey, in her view, does a lot of the same things as Kobe White. He doesn't do them as well yet. But to your point about age, he is still a couple years younger. You're getting younger in that spot and will probably be cheaper to resign this offseason as a restricted free agent. one of my winners of this was Clooney Up Messes and I thought it was funny Zach Cram over at ESPN did the winners and losers today and he had that a version of that is his loser and I thought that was amusing that it all depends on your viewpoint on whether it's a good thing or a bad thing Seth Partnow our buddy put it on social media on Blue Sky is like a lot of teams were taking the walk of shame this week I like that I like that let's go through the walks of shame let's go through them Yabusele, walk of shame. Yeah. The Kings with Schroeder and Scharich, walk of shame. Okay. No further comment. I mean, Anthony Davis is a pretty significant walk of shame. You're walking down a crowded street with that one. But I would also put Chicago trading Kobe White now in that list. It wasn't a mistake they made, but the decision to hang on to him and not when they could have gotten more value before is a walk of shame part of it. And the reason I put it is a winner of this, besides for the fact that it made for a lot of – Kaminga, by the way, is the other walk of shame. Wow, you really is a lot. And maybe Porzingis too, if we're being honest here. Double walk of shame. Yeah, my 2026 Hawks. It's a good run. We had a good run. There was a moment where they were like five games above 500 or something. It was great. I'm right there with the 2026 magic. You know, we're still hoping for Franz Wagner to get back. Talk about a fucking mess, man. Tyus Jones, by the way, on the Walk of Shame list. Yeah, just get us on. That was the single most predictable trade of the deadline was salary dumping Tyus Jones. Hunter Tyson was number one on my list. Oh, that's a good one. And Charlotte, I'm a little surprised, didn't keep him because their depth behind Lamello and Kobe White at point guard. You know, Trey Mann and KJ Simpson have both been below replacement this year. So I would have just hung on to him. But it's still good to get two seconds in that deal. So anyways, back to Chicago. Bulls. The meme I thought of, I'm sure you've seen this online, is like when someone says the best time to delete this post was before you made it. And the next best time is now. Now. That's how I feel about the Chicago trades. Like, yes, they should have made these trades a long time ago. But given that Kobe White and Ayo Desunma were headed to free agency, like getting something now as opposed to just letting them walk. or there used to be the whole like, oh, you're going to protect the asset by re-signing players. I think that's off the board now because you just are in too much danger of locking yourself into a bad contract and the player loses their trade value. What is Io's contract going to be? 20? I guess tell me how he does in the playoffs this year. North of that? I don't think he should get more than Nikhil Alexander-Walker. Nikhil Alexander-Walker's contract is a bargain which we will get to and is relevant for this discussion. It's like 15 plus a year or something, right? It's very relevant to this discussion. I mean, this roster is now, every trade deadline brings you one or two rosters where you look at it and you're like, what is this? And the Bulls roster is now just like, how did we arrive at this collection of players? And now they have to pretend like, they have to pretend for 30 games, like we're trying to make a team out of this. You know, we'll see. Can Okoro play the four next to Jalen Smith and three small guards as if there's any coherence to what's on this roster? Yeah, it's an Island of the Misfit Toys roster. DeZumo is interesting because I wrote about this in the trade grades. Like, you look at his box score stats, rock solid. I mean, outstanding efficiency this season, great defensive reputation, size to defend either guard spot, you know, on a very team-friendly contract. but it's kind of fascinating when I was doing some research for a story that Zach Cram and I wrote last week, where we talked about Paolo Banqueiro's track record. One of the things I looked at is guys who had had negative on-offs their first four years in the NBA. Ioja Sunmu is in that group and is on track, even though it's much better this year to make it five years in a row where the Bulls have been better without him on the court. And in an individual year, that doesn't tell you very much because there's a lot of randomness in that stat, particularly at the defensive end. But if it keeps happening over and over again, it does historically seem quite telling. So it'll be interesting to see how that translates in a new situation. I'm not letting you take the air out of my balloon. This was the guy that I most wanted Minnesota to get. I was all in on Keon Ellis. That was my pickup in the mock. I think Keon Ellis sounds great. I like Keon Ellis. He was one of my six most intriguing players last year before what happened at ESPN happened, and the column never ran. I like Keon Ellis. He's a reliable three-point shooter, secondary ball handler, pretty good defender. How many minutes is he going to play in the playoffs for Cleveland this year? Is he going to average 10 minutes a game in the playoffs? He might. I think there will be matchups where they will need him. It's interesting because, yeah, if you're throwing him out there with James Harden and Donovan Mitchell, which is weird to think about, you're pretty small on the perimeter. But Harden defends so much bigger than he is that maybe that's a situation where you can make it work, particularly if, you know, Jalen Tyson is probably the guy if you've got that sort of like 6-6-6-7 type of score. But if it's, you know, you're playing Philly and it's Tyrese Maxey that you need to defend, then maybe Keon Ellis is the better fit. You're right. But I just think Dasunu is demonstrably better than Keon Ellis. He'll have games where he scores 25 points. He's shooting 45% on threes. I know the defensive metrics aren't great. I think he's fine. I think he's a perfect fit in Minnesota. I like their starting five as is. I don't think they need a traditional point guard. They just need some perimeter play. off the, their bench just can't be Nas Reed and a hope and a prayer every single night. And I just think he fits how they play perfectly. He attacks those, like when they put, when Ant runs a pick and roll, and there's two on the ball, and the defense sort of shrinks to him, all those little diagonal alleys to the rim open, and he's such a great downhill driver. He's just perfect for what they need. And there is the argument that they had this kind of player in Nikhil Alexander-Walker opted not to re-sign him. He signs with the Hawks four years, 60-something million dollars. They retain Nas Reed. And then they have to go through all of these hoops of salary dumping Mike Conley, trading for second round picks and blah, blah, to get Io DeSumnu, who is a free agent and will probably make more than Nikhil Alexander-Walker on his next deal. Maybe you're right. Maybe it's exactly the same. They do end up saving money, though because he's only making six million this year versus whatever nikhil alexander walker is making uh this year what do you think of that argument that this is all just a lot of noise that to save the owner's money i mean yeah i i will say alexander walker has been better in atlanta than i expected i was still a little bit skeptical of the three-point shooting how real it was and you remember that there were moments in the first two rounds of last year's playoffs where his role shrunk a little bit because he was not contributing as much offensively before he had that awesome conference finals against the Thunder. So I thought he was more of, you know, six man on a good team than the quality starter that he has shown in Atlanta. So I can get that part of it. And Nas Reid obviously is very important for them, you know, even if he's never going to or is not project as a starter anytime soon in that Minnesota setup. It was a tough spot, and it is a considerable amount of money. You're talking about a $10 million difference this year. Plus taxes. Right, it's about $15 million in taxes probably off the top of my head. So I get it from that standpoint. But you're right. You already had. We had Io DeSumo at home. I'm just very excited for Io in Minnesota. This is my stealth title contender. It's been my stealth title contender all season. baking in. I was baking in a trade like this all along. Don't be surprised if the Wolves are 2-2 conference finals, Wolves-Thunder. I'm not going to pick them. I would pick them. Oklahoma City is the safe pick to win the West. It was my pick to win the title before the season. I think Denver, if they're healthy, is now their equal. Although they've lost three games in a row, I think. Jokic, how about Jokic's minutes restriction, by the way, the fakest minutes restriction of all time. There was the one game where they were going to play Kobe less a few years, or LeBron less a few years ago at the start of the year. In game two, he blew past the minutes restriction. It was like, no, this is not actually happening. Aaron Gordon's injury is a huge concern for me. Peyton Watson's injury? Peyton Watson, have they set a timetable for that? He kind of was holding his hamstring when he walked off the court, right? I haven't seen the timetable, but Tony Jones said, I believe, grade two, just as you were recording here. Oh, what does that mean? I don't know what that means. I mean, again, the if they're all healthy together at the same time in the playoffs is becoming a little more rickety. But I think they're Oklahoma City's equal. And after that, I might take the Wolves over the Spurs and I would take them over the Rockets, I think, as for like finals equity. what do you think? I've been a little more skeptical. You know, early in the season, they were sort of not playing that well against what was a relatively easy schedule. It is still going to get harder the rest of the way. They, but it has gotten harder and they've sort of risen to meet that challenge. They've played to the level of their opponent to a degree at times this season, which, you know, is not as a frustrating trend, but one that ultimately pays off in the playoffs. I really believe in San Antonio. I know that, I think it's an interesting question in both conferences because my sort of sneaky championship contender most of the year would have been Cleveland. And then all of a sudden, I looked at one thing the other day where they were favored to win the Eastern Conference after making the hardened trade, which is pretty wild. So I think both San Antonio and Detroit, there's a degree of, are we underselling these teams because of their youth and because we haven't seen them do in the playoffs before? I think we're a thousand percent underselling Detroit. I think the questions about their offense and their spacing looking those issues being magnified in the playoffs are perhaps real but they really know how to make up with it for it with size rebounding cutting all of that and they're just like you don't win this many games by not being an awesome team I'm looking at the fan duel odds right now to win the east Detroit plus 330 Cleveland plus 340 Boston plus 360 New York plus 400 I mean that's like a four-way toss-up I picked the Knicks before the season I don't even know what I think about the Knicks anymore. It's all just my brain is a mess. I'll stick with them just because I have to stick to my picks. But I think for sure Detroit is being undersold as a legit finals contender. They're just tough as shit. They're deep. Herter will give them some optionality. I just, you know, their offense is going to have games where they're strangled a little bit and they need to figure it out. Who did you pick before the season? I also picked the Knicks. I mean, they seemed sort of the safest pick at that point. And yeah, I mean, Detroit, you know, very early on, it was clear to me that they were legit, that what they were doing defensively, you poked around under the hood at the shot quality metrics. And it's like, this is not a fluke at all. This is who they are going to be. And they have remained that all season. And, you know, with the Shea Gilgers-Alexander injury, like, there's a real possibility Detroit has home court throughout the playoffs. That's true. do you have any other winners or losers you were dying to get to here? Should we talk? Quickly, I would say the non-tax teams because so many teams ended up either getting all the way out of the tax or in Cleveland's case, just massively decreasing their bills. So, you know, the tax distribution is going to be like around 4 million or so per team. And a week ago or two weeks ago, it was like 14. I hope, I hope, I hope they're okay. I've been thinking about them all day. Hope they're all right. Thoughts and prayers. The team, the other winner that I wanted to talk about is Harden and Anthony Davis, because you mentioned on the pod the other day with Bobby that, you know, Harden keeps doing this at the end of his contract and getting himself to a position where he's going to get paid again. Jimmy Butler, kind of a similar thing over the last few years here. You know, anytime that he is due for an extension or about to hit free agency. and I do think players are starting to learn the lesson. You can't just count on, well, because I'm on this team, this team is going to pay me. You've got to get to where you're valued most. And I think Davis, it clearly didn't seem like an extension was coming in Dallas, which is why the trade happened, and now a much better chance of getting paid in Washington alongside Trey Young. That's a good one. I'm all out. Do you have anything else? I'm all trade deadlined out. I'm weirdly catching my second wind here, I guess. I'm fascinated. I don't know whether the Wizards are a winner or a loser of the trade deadline, but what they're attempting to me is quite interesting. A stat I tried to go look up last night is teams that won the equivalent of 25 games or fewer in a season and then got the most older the next year. What were teams like that? And there are a lot of recent teams that have successfully pulled that off. Houston in the 23-24 season, Detroit last year, San Antonio last year qualified for that. And what I think is interesting is with the exception of the Spurs, who got the second best player on their team, you know, as a much more experienced veteran. In those cases, it was all we're putting role players around our young players to make those young players pop. like it was to accentuate Cade Cunningham and yeah Cade Cunningham and eventually Ahmed Thompson Washington like you know unless you are a really big Alex Sar believer their two best players next year are going to be Trey Young and Anthony Davis you know who knows how much they will have played this season maybe not at all uh and it's going to be a fascinating experiment to you know fit the young talent around these two, you know, kind of singular figures at their respective spots. Yeah, I talked about it with Goldsberry. Like, I don't remember anything quite like this. Like, the Rockets last year when they hit the gas were with Van Vliet and, who am I forgetting? Yeah, was the sort of analog for Washington. Like, that'll be them next year. But the Rockets' young players were, in Shengun's case, more proven, I think already at that time than anyone on the Wizards before last season and just more intriguing. And the Ross like Eason was like more of an NBA ready player than anything. I don't remember anything like what Washington is trying to do, but I'm here for it. I think it's interesting. I was thinking about Brooklyn when they added Darren Williams. I guess maybe they were still in New Jersey at that point. And like they were trying to do it with Darren Williams and Dwight Howard. But those also maybe were, you know, those are guys closer to their prime than Davis is. And it was a little bit different of an element. Like Brooklyn was developing their young players more as role players and traded some of the best of them in Derek Favors to get Darren Williams. So it's all quite fascinating to me how it's going to work in Washington. You had a great Brooklyn call out in your trade grades today that I also immediately thought of, which is this Pacers-Clippers trade with the double protection, 1-4 and 10-30. I immediately thought of the Nets trading Portland a top three protected pick in whatever draft that was that Damian Lillard was in, and Billy King coming out and saying, well, we only think there are three really good players in this draft, so if it falls outside the top three, we're not really good. Gerald Wallace is the player who came back to Brooklyn in that trade, and Damian Lillard fell outside the top three, and Gerald Wallace did a whole lot of nothing for the Brooklyn Nets. So walk down memory lane. Kevin Pelton, it's wonderful to see you. The beard looks great. The Sonics memorabilia looks great, as always. And I wish your Seattle Seahawks – I always want to call them the Super Seahawks because that's just Seattle super something is ingrained in my brain. They're just the Seahawks. Or as my friend Nate from college calls them, the Sea Turkeys. I wish them luck in the Super Bowl. I mean, when they're in the Super Bowl, I think you do have to say they're the Super Seahawks. But I guess we should say we buried the lead here. The real winner of the trade deadline is that Washington's new governor met with Adam Silver today. So, you know, maybe we're like inching incrementally closer to the NBA back in Seattle. It would be it needs to happen. We all know it needs to happen. And Kevin Pelton will. But they should just hire you to be the GM of the team. How about that? Kevin Pelton, it's great to see you. Enjoy life post-trade deadline. Have a nice pina colada on the beach. Good luck in the Super Bowl. All right, thanks as always for having me. Good to do this again. All right, that's it for the Zach Lowe Show this week. Trade deadline is over. Relax, have a beer, have a glass of wine. Thank you to Kurt Goldsberry, Kevin Pelton, Mike, Billy, Jonathan, and Chris on production. Thanks to all of you for listening to and or watching the Zach Lowe show. We'll see you next week as we unpack the post-trade deadline landscape in the NBA. 21 or over in president select states for Kansas in affiliation with Kansas Star Casino or 18 and over in president DC, Kentucky, Wyoming. Gambling problem? Call 1-800-GAMBLER or visit rg-help.com. Call 1-888-789-7777 or visit ccpg.org slash chat in Connecticut or visit mdgamblinghelp.org in Maryland. Hope is here. visit gamblinghelplinema.org or call 800-327-5050 for 24-7 support in Massachusetts or call 1-877-8HOPE-NY or text HOPE-NY in New York. For Louisiana, call 1-877-770-7867.