682. Shift 12 — Boards: You Are The Culture Carriers (How Boards and Staff Shape Leadership Together) - Nakia James-Jenkins

Hey friends, we have exciting news. If you are looking to build capacity, clarity and momentum in the new year, we hope you'll join this community at our first ever We Are For Good Summit on February 12th.

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It's a free one day virtual gathering for nonprofit leaders, fundraisers, marketers and the everyday change maker who's looking to elevate.

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Good. Yeah. You can expect more than 20 speakers across three tracks, plus live workshops and working sessions and roundtable conversations on building trust, partnerships, people power and what leadership really requires in 2026.

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Save your free spot at weareforgood.com summit and let's learn together. Then turn that learning into action.

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After the summit, we're returning to local by activating in local impactup meetups so the ideas shared during the day turn into action together. If you want to host a meetup too, all the details are over@weareforgood.com summit. Let's kickstart the year in community.

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I truly believe that boards are culture carriers, but I want to be very intentional to anchor that in the understanding that boards can be culture carriers only if executive directors and CEOs make space for it.

1:06

Welcome back friends to the 12 Shift series. And we are in our final shift. And John, I mean I feel like we're about to put a big bow on this. We have brought a guest who is going to be the cherry on the top of this incredible series and her name is Nakia James Jenkins. We may just call her NJJ because we make nicknames up for people that we adore and we definitely adore her. And today we are talking about boards, you are the culture carriers and how boards and staff shape leadership together. We were introduced to Nakia by our dear friend Brook Richie Babich. And today we're going to be talking about how boards shape trust, voice and leadership, often without even realizing that they're doing it. So we're going to dig into what a healthy values align partnership between an executive director, CEO, whichever position and their board can look like and how how orgs can intentionally activate board engagement in ways that truly serve the mission. So we're honored to have such an expert, such a light, such a force for good in the house today. And Nakia brings this powerful people and culture lens to today's convo. She's led leadership, talent and DEI work across the public and nonprofit sectors. You may know about a couple of these orgs, like something where she was the VP of People and Culture at Girls who Code. Hello. I got me a little 11 year old scientist. Thank you for doing that. And she now supports mission driven orgs through executive search and advising at onramps. And she's also serving on the board of STEM from Dance, where she sees firsthand how boards can show up as authentic partners who help organizations lead with courage. We are in for a treat with this conversation. Nakia, welcome to the We Are For Good podcast. We're so glad you're here.

1:24

Oh, my gosh. Thank you so much for the invitation and thank you for one building out this really impactful series. Right. I am also a lifelong learner, and so I have been listening to the series, and so I've been inspired. I've shared some of the podcasts with my network because again, if we're going to do good, we need to do good together. And so, first things first. Thank you. All right. Because again, without this platform, there isn't a lot of communities that would take this risk. Right. And so I am grateful to now be a member within your circle.

3:24

Oh, lucky us. Come on over to my Thanksgiving table. We will make a space for you. We would love to start by just getting to know you in your work. Tell us about how you got into this work. And I definitely want to know more about your boardwick board work with STEM from Dance. So tell me that story, too.

4:04

Absolutely. So, you know, I. I come to this conversation not necessarily having built out a linear model of who I wanted to become when I grew up. Right? But what I did know from very early, just my own childhood development, is that service and giving back is important. And so when I graduated undergrad, I knew that I was going to start my career in the social sector space. I made the intentional commitment to remain within that space until 2019, when I actually moved to onramps. And our firm actually supports the social sector. So I didn't steer away too far. And so that is literally how I fumbled into this. Right? Being someone who is anchored in service, being someone who I describe myself as a servant leader. Right. I am put here to give back. I am put here to share. I am put here to push thinking and to shift mindsets. And the better place to do it is social sector, right? It is just an environment that was originally built to elevate and support communities. It was never designed to be here this long, but we're happy it's still here because it is filling in intentional gaps that government I don't know, ever will be able to fully do just based on the design. The system is designed for different reasons. And so when I started out, I Made the choice to nonprofit. I then moved into government for a little bit. I've worked at the Manhattan Borough President's office when Scott Stringer was borough president. I got to see community boards really on the ground, serving constituents, solving day to day, you know, concerns and needs. And then I got the opportunity to go into education, which based in my household is a freedom key. Right. It is the way you get to choose to move in and out of the world. Knowledge is something no one can ever take from you. And so that is why I'm a lifelong leader. But I'm also someone who wants to create opportunities for others to also understand the power of education. And so that is how my career has kind of done a little bit of a loop de loop in different sectors. And that is actually how I wind up partnering and getting to know Stem From Dance. Right. I attended, yeah, it was 2019, and I attended the Trailblazer Awards that was hosted by the Haitian Roundtable. And Stem From Dance was one of the trailblazers that was actually receiving the award. And I happen to be in the audience. And when you hear Yamale Toussaint tell her story and the vision of what inspired Stem From Dance, I, of course, immediately went over to her at the end of the evening and said, I have no idea how I can be helpful, but I know I should be. And so please tap me, put me to work. I don't know what that looks like, but put me to work. I've never built a technology based organization, but I know structure and I can be helpful. And she was smart enough to take me up on that offer quickly.

4:24

She was smart, truly.

7:43

Oh, my gosh, Nakia, you have no idea the dots that you just connected over here. Because our very last episode that dropped was about the power of story as infrastructure and giving founders the microphone to tell the story, inviting people in. You're in the audience, you get drawn in. You're in board service now because of this. What a full circle moment. Thank you for proving the points that are coming through this series, my friend. Also, I love your arc. And if you're not watching the video of this, I feel like you were using a roller coaster kind of line of your story, the ups and downs. But I feel like that's what board engagement kind of has looked like over the last few decades. I mean, there's been so much that's changed. The need for boards has changed a ton too. And so I'm curious, so curious from your perspective, like, what has changed and where do you see organizations still stuck in the outdated model of expectations.

7:45

Oh my gosh, that's such a good question. When I think about how board engagement has evolved, I would let's just say over the past decade, right? It is in direct alignment with the social sector's needs have evolved, right. It's not just out of the blue, right. Our sector's changed, right. There was a time where there was set funding streams that organizations could rely on, whether it was direct philanthropic relationships, whether it was government contracts that basically were multi year funding commitments where you didn't really have to figure it out. You knew what was coming through the door, you knew when it was going to arrive and you knew how to build your programs to align with those funding models, right? And, and that just doesn't exist now because we are living in the world of choice, right? And so individuals, organizations, even government agencies now have a open opportunity to choose which causes they will support in a much more impactful and effective way than when it was just universal, right? It's the, the grant. The RFPs go out, the same 12 people apply for that particular RFP. You pick the top three to five. You, you divvy that, you divide the pool of money by 5 maybe, and then you fund them and you keep it moving. Now there is so much opportunity for leaders to be more strategic in how they think about their funding partners, how they identify board members who may have those external partnerships and connections with them, wanting to really elevate their visibility and impact in the work. And I would say some of the ways that organizations are stuck is that CEOs and EDs are not taking full advantage of this moment of redesign, right? You inherited this model of board structure, you've inherited these bylaws, you've inherited these committee structures, but they may not be what you need now. And you're not taking the risk or being courageous enough to go into the conversation as we're different, we need a different model from our board, we need a different level of engagement from our board. But how do we set them up to understand the purpose of that difference and bring them along on your. What I always think about as a life cycle of an organization, right? When you're in startup, you need different things. When you're in maturity, you need different things. When you're stability, you need different things. And when you are thinking about Sunset, you also need different things. I think that curve needs to be fully communicated and elevated for the board as well.

8:41

This isn't the 2.0. This is like the 3.0 of boards and I want to call out what I, what I hear you saying that is so brilliant. Because as you were talking, I put, you know, little Becky and Daat, who was trying to figure out how to work with boards, what were the appropriate steps? Am I even allowed in here? Am I big enough on staff that I can even talk to these people? All the things. And we're moving from that era to an era of co creation with your board. And that is what I think is so powerful. And I feel like if you're listening to this saying, oh gosh, this is the conversation I need to have with my board, there is an elevation that needs to happen. Which, by the way, Brooker G. Babbage was talking about that in her shift. She was talking about the fragility of our systems right now and how we need partners. Abby Failick talking about trust is the work. Now, she said to your point that it was about being courageous and stepping out there and saying, is this old system doing this the right things for us anymore? And I just lastly want to say you're talking about something that I think is so brilliant, which is repositioning currency as different. Right now with boards, it's not just the money that we are going after. We need your story as currency. We need your network as currency. We need you to open doors and get us into places. Whatever it is, we're reimagining what currency looks like. So this episode is about boards as culture carriers. In your experience, my dear friend, what is the gap between how boards often see their role and what becomes possible when boards truly understand their influence on culture? Like, talk about that, Delta.

11:32

Yeah, I truly believe that boards are culture carriers. But I want to be very intentional to anchor that in the understanding that boards can be culture carriers only if executive directors and CEOs make space for it. You asked an earlier question about how board engagement has evolved or needs to evolve. And one of those is calling your folks in. Right? Holding the folks that have said, your organization is important enough for me to volunteer my time, my funds, open up my network. It is really essential for leaders to then create space for that to happen. Right. I'll talk about my board experience directly before, like I said, I met Yamile at the event. Yamale had multiple conversations before I thought I needed to be on the board. Right. I didn't necessarily need the title of board member to be effective, but. But what I did want to understand is who Yamale Toussaint is as a leader. How can my knowledge and network impact and influence where she's moving the organization. And to do that was that I had to intentionally create space and opportunity for those connections and also ask questions about, like, the why. Why Nakia. Right. I don't assume that I meet it everywhere, but I will raise my hand if I think I can be helpful. And so for me to be a culture carrier was for me to get close to the executive director and founder, right? For me to meet the team, for me to go to programs, for me to meet the girls that are being impacted by our camp program that runs three weeks in the summer. Right? Watching a young girl show up on a first day, a little unsure or excited to be there, but you can see that doubt, right? STEM girls of color, are we really welcome? Is this where we belong? Right. And to come back a week later and to see that same young lady, right? Answering questions, you know, asking questions with confidence building circuit boards. Right? I'm going to tell you right now, I've never been more impressed than to see young girls the ages of 8 through 13, literally soldering the circuit board that they're going to connect their wearable technology to for their dance performance. I'm like, yeah, can I be you? Can I just go back?

13:23

Can I get in this camp?

16:13

Can little Nakia just show up? Right? And that's the way I believe the only real authentic way for boards to be culture carriers is that executive directors and CEOs and leadership teams are creating opportunities for them to be able to build a authentic connection to the mission and be able to share their stories. Right? I am a black girl that grew up in the Bronx in Harlem. They see me and they're like, oh, you're doing this? I'm like, no, no, no. I'm you just 40 years from now.

16:15

Yeah, right?

16:51

I want you to see me as you 40 years from now. But I don't get that chance if there's not space for it.

16:52

I mean, I'm just thinking of everyone listening that's going to be trying to recruit you to come on their board after this.

16:59

No kidding.

17:05

But, you know, Becky and I like getting this seat to get to interview so many amazing people. Like, I love it when you see someone light up and you talking about this mission, you can see what it means to you in just your expression and the words and the joy that comes through. And it does. Like, this is such relational work and I love that you're leading us into this because I think we would love to invite everyone listening to, like, think about those relationships. Like, how can we build in and create these healthy value aligned relationships between not just the leadership, but the organizations and their board. What does that really brass tacks come down to in like how we show up differently this year?

17:07

Oh, wow. You know, one of my favorite strategic mindset shifting leaders is Brene Brown. Right. And I think about the, yeah, absolutely. Like just hands down worship. And I think about a healthy ed and board partnership. Looks like rumbling, right? She describes rumbling. And that really is the willingness to be honest. Something sometimes having hard conversations with care and respect, not avoiding conflict, being honest about where the organization truly is so that your board can lean in. Right. There is a desire to color within the lines at all times when you're talking to your board where you miss the opportunity to build authentic connections. When you say, you know, a funder dropped us, right. Not anything I did or didn't do well. Or maybe it is something you did or didn't do well. Right. But being able to be honest around what's needed really creates an authentic connection across the table. Right. Across the table at a restaurant, across the table at a conference, across the table at the board meeting. Right. But it goes beyond board meetings. You have to really be intentional around engagement. I very early on, before I was board chair because I just stepped in the board chair in 24, right. So there was times that I was on the board that I didn't hold this particular role. Yamale and I touch base monthly. Right. I wanted to create opportunities for us to engage, for her to have access to me. Right. Not feel like she was bothering me as a board member. Right. Because again, we've got full time jobs. And so I just blocked out a 30 minute Friday once a month. If she needed me, she sent me a agenda item. If she didn't, we just deleted it. She didn't need to call me, she didn't need to text me. It was set, right? Because then she knew like, oh, I have something I need Nikia on. I'm talking to her in two weeks. If it can wait two weeks, I'll hold that time. If not, I am a text message or group chat away. That's really how I think about healthy value add relationships. Is creating time intentionally so good?

17:48

It is so good. And I and it feels, can I say easy and natural. And there is so much energy around how to talk to a board, when to talk to a board member and can I and where's the power? And I feel like you have really made this a conversation about equity, which is the reciprocity of this relationship is so important, you pouring into the board member, the poor member, pouring back into the mission. That is when you know you have got good volunteers and alignment for your mission. And so I think we're an activating community. We don't want to just talk about stuff. We want to make the change and do the work. So from the perspective of someone on a board, how can organizations like intentionally activate you train their board members to move in ways that actually benefit the mission? Because there are a lot of orgs out there who have been operating their boards the same way for decades. And we're in this new evolution and we want to know how can we start to activate and train them differently for things that move the needle.

20:22

I love that. First things first. I think it how you begin a relationship dictates expectations, right? How you lay out the expectations. And for board, it really starts with the onboarding and recruitment process, right? You have to be very. For CEOs and executive directors, it's such a great moment of narrating who your organization is, what type of expertise and level of engagement you need at this point in time. And when those needs evolve, be honest and transparent about them. But I truly believe it is at that onboarding recruitment step where you can be very transparent. Like, we're at the place where really I need board members that can just fundraise, right? We've got this program thing locked down, but we cannot figure out this fundraising cycle in a way that allows us to. Allows me, as the executive director, founder or CEO to sleep well at night, right? So you just transparently name that, right? Like that's what we need for board members right now. Then for those that are in a different place and you're like, actually we need strategic thought partnerships, right? I've got the fundraising model. I feel like it's strong. You never say no to money again. I'm gonna say that out loud. You never say no to money. But it's not like your primary, like hard line focus, right? And so you give your board opportunities to engage in the work differently. And so that is how you activate them, right? You activate them around a tangible action. These hypothetical, we need more fundraising. We need fundraising in philanthropy. We need fundraising with government connections. We need community based organization partnerships, right? Very tangible steps. Because when you're too big and I've got a day job, right, so I'm, you know, the partner at Onramps. I've got my own consulting and executive coaching firm. I've got a young man that keeps walking on the video that's Home from school today that is going to college next year. Right. Just naming how the world is working. Right. Happens to be off from school today. And my husband, I am a wife, I am a mother, I am second born of five girls. All of those things come with me. So if you can say Nakia, this is the slice that I need you to focus on over these next two to three months. We'll come back together and have a real heart to heart conversation around progress. I can sign up for that, I can book some time on my calendar with five other people in my network because I know exactly what I am delivering. But we talk in broad terms when we're dealing with our boards. We give really nice presentations that I'm always a little. My follow up question is always like, what's the ask?

21:34

This is exactly our personality. I love the fluff clouds. And then Becky's like, what are you asking me to do? What you need, Nikia? What I love though is that one of the shift conversations was about volunteers. We were talking to Jennifer Sirangelo and she was making the case. I don't remember the direct quote, but the number one way to grow your volunteers is to ask for volunteers. Like it's not rocket science. But I just love that through line of being very specific about your needs that is magnetic for somebody because that's an easy yes or an easy no. So you can get to that and keep moving forward. That's so powerful.

24:35

Absolutely. And the other thing I would add that I didn't necessarily say specific is train them. Right. Develop your board. Don't assume your board members know. Don't assume your board members know how to do it. Don't assume your board members are comfortable doing it. Right. Spend the time to think through the key skill sets and deliverables you need your board to actually produce for you and the organization and then step back and assess. Like, should we spend time in our next board meeting just bringing in a consultant or spend time bringing in one of our partners to talk specifically about the work since they can't visit a program. Bring the program to them. Right. Bring the program to them. Have one of the girls dial into a zoom call and talk about their experience and how it transformed them in their day school experience. Right. Because the one amazing things about STEM from dance is that our job and our mission is to elevate curiosity. I'm hopeful that we are creating engineers and folks that are going to go into STEM related careers, but if they don't, I want to ensure that when they're in their day school, they're able to raise their hand in confidence. They want to raise their voice because they know their voice is valued. Their knowledge, their intelligence should be shared. That's the thing I say to my son every time he walks out this door. Please make smart choices and share your intelligence. That's all I'm asking. That makes you a good human every day. So we're really committed to creating and inspiring good human behavior. But if your board doesn't make that, you don't make that connection or train them to understand that, they can't tell that story the way I just did it. Just can't.

25:14

Dang.

27:10

I have a new bucket list item, and it's to make Nakia my best friend in 2026. I like her so much.

27:12

We need to start a board.

27:19

We are best friends, just like you. You have. You have shown why not only are you an expert, but you are a trusted expert. You share vulnerability, you share truth. You uplift others, and it makes you so easy and human to listen to. And I just feel so grateful that you are in this work. And, Nikia, we end, as you know, a lot of our episodes, all of our episodes with the one good thing. And this time, we're attaching a little bit of homework to our 12 shifts because we want people to do something and get active. So is there something that listeners could walk away with, maybe put into practice around this topic? What would you leave them with to reflect or activate around today?

27:21

I love that. And so I think I've got three things that I can share that I think may be inspiring and empowering. One, for the leaders that are listening and viewing this podcast, get clear on your intention. Right? What outcomes are you actually hoping for? And it's not about winning or being right. It really is about genuinely serving your mission. Right? And so what do you need? Right. First things first, because I think that that sets up the conversation really nicely. Be intentional to create space for engagement. Right? We throw that word around a lot, but then we don't create space for it. And so you'll go 30 days after your last board engagement, and you've talked to no one. You've not made sure that there was any information shared either electronically. Create some ways that you are constantly in community. Right? That's something that you all. We talk about a lot, especially on the podcast, but also just listening to how you. You all have built community. Right? There's a lot of intentional steps you've taken to build that community. So we got to do it in all aspects of our work, in all aspects of our lives is really making time and creating space for that. And then show up as your best. If you recognize that an ask is too big or you're uncomfortable with the ask, pause, give yourself time to sit with it, figure it out, put it in bite sized pieces and then move forward on it. Right? Sometimes going big is not always the best model. Small wins are like gems that carry you through one moment of time to the next. But we as a people love big things, right? We're big thinkers, we're big strategists. We like big wins where those are the ones that get, you know, a LinkedIn post. I think you should be telling your story in the small wins category so that you have an opportunity to stay connected more frequently because small wins happen more frequently than the big, you know, enormous wins. And so that is how I move through the world and use those small wins to make connections.

28:08

Goodness, what a heart filling conversation. It gets just back to like the power that's just sitting, waiting to be unleashed in our boards with this type of connection, you know. So, Nikia, I want everyone to get connected with you, into your work again. I don't want you to get signed up for too many new boards out of this. But how can, how can folks find you, follow you, where do you hang out online and can we tack on like also tell us about STEM for Dance? What do they need and how can we help with this amazing conversation?

30:38

We got you here. Let's activate.

31:11

Yes, yes, yes, yes. I'm so grateful for that. The gift of my name is that there, there isn't another Nakia James Jenkins on LinkedIn. So that is the gift of my name and so folks can absolutely find me on LinkedIn. They can find me through onramp and Chief. I'm also a chief member and a very active chief member, so you can find me in that community as well. STEM from Dance is an amazing organization that is at a real exciting moment of growth. And so as we are thinking about building out our strategic partnerships who really identifying partners that have deep commitment to elevating educational access is the type of partnerships or conversations we would like to engage in. We also have one board seat that we will actively be recruiting that season will open up in the next two months. I have a lot of intentionality around how we bring folks on the board. And so we're redesigning that onboarding as I talked about earlier, which is I'm excited about. So those are the two things, some strategic partners you can think that may really be even thought partners if they're not funders. We always love funders. As I said earlier, we always will say yes to new money. But just helping us to broaden our reach we run three different programs. Camp is our summer program. That's three weeks. We run them in 10 cities across the country. New York runs camps in Manhattan and the Bronx. I believe our application if it's not open now it will be so please sign up the young girls so that they can build the confidence and walk differently. Second is clubs so anyone we are in a train to trainer model and so anyone can run a stem from dance club with a group of girls. We teach and really support our clubs through our programs team. And then the third is pop ups. We will do a Saturday 9 to 4 I believe or 9 to 2 program where girls get to emerge in our program for one day and I think that for me is like the most exciting. I love our pop ups. I attended the one in November. It was wonderful.

31:14

I just think Yamale must be thinking I hit the jackpot on board Member. Your elevator speech for your mission and what they need was so succinct. It was so clear. I'm going to add in everybody please go follow stem from Dance on social so you can start seeing this information and you can choose to get involved however it works for you. But that was a sensational elevator speech for your mission. So thank you for coming in blowing the lid off of this topic. We will see you again for sure.

33:43

Curve. Thank you so much. I appreciate the opportunity and the community. So thank you all.

34:15