Today I am joined by my good friend Molly Jong-Fast. Molly, I have some great news. Kylie put up this poll. This is a Washington Post poll put on Fox News. Trump's approval rating at 34%. Fox News put that on their screen. Fox Business, of course. Molly. Yeah. Fox Business is, you know, that's the home of Lou Dobbs, the man who makes Sean Hannity look like a nonpartisan actor. And I mean that, obviously, you know, consider the. But yeah, look, I am not surprised. And all of his polling is through the floor. And actually today he was giving a speech at the White House for the Angel families. And he said, I don't understand why what we do isn't more popular. So like clearly at this point, he is seeing the polls. He is seeing he's losing. And he has, of course, like any good autocrat, wants to make it harder to vote. One thing that you've written about a lot in the New York Times is the Epstein stuff. And a standout in that is that you talk about how the elites are using Epstein as a way to just have access to anything and everything that they want. Business deals, underage girls, etc. Will you tell my listeners about your piece that you wrote in the New York Times? Yeah. So, you know, I've written about this a lot. And I've written about it for any number of reasons, mostly because it's the largest sex trafficking scandal in American history. And actually this weekend on my podcast, I had Maria Farmer. And Maria Farmer was the first person to come out and try to get some justice, try to stop Jeffrey Epstein. She went to the New York Police Department and she also went to the FBI. And she was at the time 26. And she had discovered she had been held hostage in Ohio at the estate of Les Wexner. And she had also her sister had been sexually molested by Epstein and his whole crew, though she would not that some of that come out later. And she did, in fact, go to the authorities and they ignored her. And one of the things that we saw in this dump of documents was that actually there was proof that she had gone, that those statements were in the dump of documents. And, you know, Maria and Annie Farmer, these sisters, they were the ones who went to Vanity Fair to try to get their story told by Vicki Ward way back in the 90s. And she talks about how, and in fact, I had met Danny Belsky, who's another really great survivor who talks so, who speaks so well about the crimes that Epstein has perpetrated on these girls. And she talked about how, you know, she wasn't abused till the 2000s. So if if the FBI had paid attention to any of these warnings, so many of these girls would not have had their lives just completely destroyed. So you said that she was held hostage at Les Wexner's house, the Victoria's Secret guy. Yeah. I mean, their stories are the things that these women went through. And I think it's really important to talk about it because there's a lot of stuff online now, like, you know, there's cannibalism. I don't think there really was cannibalism. I think that really what happened in itself is such a scandal. I mean, this is the largest sex trafficking operation in American history. It went on during the Biden administration. The Trump, both Trump administrations went on during, well, it didn't, the second one, no, because he was already in jail in 2019, but there's still been a cover up in this admin. You know, they're, I mean, it's just, these women have been failed by Biden, Trump, Trump, Clinton, and Bush. I mean, they just have been. And it's been the FBI. And, you know, I don't know what's malfeasance and what's actual, you know, some of it is them covering up their own incompetence. and some of it is them covering for powerful men. And what we see when we look at the UK or a place like Andrew, Prince Andrew was held in custody and questioned. And his brother, the King of England said, we have, we're not above the law. And meanwhile, in America, we are just, you know, we have a cabinet that is filled with people that are in the Epstein files from, you know, Howard Lutnick to Donald Trump. I also found it pretty interesting how many of the oligarchs that have bent the knee and kissed the ring to Donald Trump are in the Epstein files further. I found it of really significance that the very first law firm that bent the knee to Trump, and we were all like, why? These are supposed to be progressive freedom fighter, that the partner of that law firm was in the Epstein files. And when you see all of these people that have bent the knee, that there's one connective tissue with all of them, they're all in the Epstein files. Yeah. You know, it's funny because I was watching the board of peace meeting the other day, quote unquote, the hilariously named board of peace meeting. And in it, you had and a number of people who are in the Epstein files. So you had members of Trump world, you had members of his cabinet but you also had just like you know billionaire friends of his who are in it I think it important to remember that CBS has actually reported CBS owned by Larry Ellison run by Barry Weiss, Trump friend, Barry Weiss, that it has actually reported that Letnick was in business with Jeffrey Epstein, you know, because again, not all outlets have reported that, But that's a pretty big deal. This is the Commerce Secretary of the United States. So there are really a lot of crossovers here. And you could see why the FBI would try to cover for these people. And like, you know, I've talked to a lot of members of Congress on the Democratic side, and there really is a sense that there's still a lot of files we're not seeing. And that, you know, this is the law. This Epstein Files Release Act was signed into law. So it should be, these files should be released and the redactions, what's really important is like there are all these redactions that are, there's no explanation for why they're redacted. So, you know, sometimes it's a member of the FBI, sometimes, or it's an investigator, sometimes it's a, you can't tell who it is. And that is in this law, they're supposed to, Pam Bondi is supposed to explain the redactions. So there is a real sense like we haven't seen that. And, you know, members of Congress who have gone to look at the redactions complain that there are that some of the files that are supposed to be unredacted are still redacted. So, you know, it's really stunning when we follow like the drop by drop and case by case Letnick, Teal, Bannon, all these people in it. But if you just step back from it, Molly, and think about Jamie Raskin saying the president of the United States is in these files over 1 million times. And then you think about his AG, Pam Bondi, that has met with survivors, clearly seen the evidence, probably seen horrific videos. And the way she walked in and treated Congress, it's really stunning. It's such a cover up, an ongoing cover up of such a massive scale. I find myself as an American rooting for the Europeans to get all of this evidence, to root it out because justice is so necessary here. And it's such a strange feeling being an American, knowing that the government is number one, the chief executive is in the Epstein files over a million times with credible claims, under oath claims that he participated in these abuses. And then number two, that they're not going to do anything about it, but cover it up. It's pretty devastating when you sit back and think about it. Yeah. I mean, look, this is the thing is the question is, are we in a moment like the moment after the killing of George Floyd or the moment after Harvey Weinstein was arrested? Are we at a moment where the culture, where the people say it's enough? Like, you have to stop. We cannot live like this. Because remember, there are moments that you can't predict, that Trump can't, you know, like the moment, you know, there are moments where everything changes, where people say no. And again, a good example of this is Minnesota. In Minnesota, Trump sent ICE in there because of that Nick Shirley video. Nick Shirley is this YouTuber who made a video about a fraud, allegations that had actually been prosecuted by the Biden DOJ and people had gone to jail. But because a lot of the tech bros on Axe had not seen any of this and didn't read the New York Times, they believed that Nick Shirley was this intrepid reporter as opposed to, you know, someone who was really a conservative influencer. Fine, nothing wrong with influencing people if it's for the good. But in this case, it was for the federal government sending ICE into Minnesota and killing two American citizens. But, you know, the Minnesotans made their voices clear, took care of each other, and ultimately, you know, changed the, you know, they really were able to get ICE to, you know, they're not in there the way they were. So I do think, like, Trump, this administration responds to pushback, if that's one thing we've seen. Like he did not storm Greenland, right? We do not, you know, there's Greenland is not the 51st state. And so, and Canada is not the 52nd. So pushback works and the American people have a lot more power than I think they think they do. I agree with you. And when I think about pushback and I think about how it's working, I think about how everyday Americans are doing a better job than establishment Dems. You have grand juries that are refusing to charge the sitting senators, you know, that say, no, we're not charging Mark Kelly with this. You have the people of Minnesota, which you spoke out about, you have the no Kings march. And then when I hear Josh Shapiro was on, I can't remember, ABC, maybe over the weekend, and they asked him, should ICE be abolished? And he does this double speak word salad answer where he can't just say, no, I don't think it should because of X, Y, Z. And I know that's going to piss off a lot of people or yes, I think it should be abolished. And Molly, the democratic establishment stand up to this is so lackluster. You see, I'm grabbing my hair right now because I just think this cannot, these cannot be our leaders. These cannot be the leaders of the resistance. And then you see some people on the left that really are trying to fight the fight looking forward to the midterms knowing that this dipshit that is the president likes to cheat loves it loves to cheat loves you know he's priming eyes to probably mess with people on election day stephen miller you know last thing he ever wants to be held is accountable so they're going to pull out all the stops right But heading into these midterms, two questions. Number one, and this is a bold question, but it's something I just, my brain keeps heading to over and over. Should the Democrats revolt within the House and the Senate and try to get new leadership for a minority leader and then get rid of Chuckles and maybe put like Van Hollen or Chris Murphy? Right? That's my first question. Okay. But number two, if they don't do that, will the Chuckles and Hakeem, based on what I'm seeing so far, I just don't see that they're going to put up the fight needed to withhold, to hold the line. Because holding the real line is coming this November. This is the real moment building up to it. Okay. So I think there are two questions here. One is what Democrats did in 2020 did not work. And I think that's what you're saying, that being the party of norms is not a successful way to push back against Trump. Like the world has changed and you can't just be for, you know, like Merrick Garland did not get it done. That was a failure. Yeah. Absolute failure. Right. And it's wonderful that he is so committed to the status quo, but this was not a status quo moment. And the way you get Trump 2.0 is because you cannot put the genie back in the bottle with an authoritarian takeover of one political party. So the answer, I think, is more complicated. And I would say this. I am not convinced that the problem Democrats have is ideological. Okay? I think it's more about a question. First of all, I think it's a question of whether or not you get a talented politician in there who can win and who can fight. I don't think, like one of the things Democrats spend a lot of time talking about in the primary contest is like, does this person believe this? Does this person believe that? I'm going to pull back and say, they're politicians. They don't believe in it. Most of the time, they believe whatever will get them elected. And so it doesn't necessarily matter in my mind. And this is like real cynical stuff. Okay. It's kind of true though, Molly. But I mean, they don't really give a fuck. Even the best ones. Yeah. So like the question is, can you get someone who can win? And if you can, someone who's cares, like Donald Trump, right? That guy had a whole, he didn't believe anything. I mean, one of the things about him that has worked so well for Republicans is he got up there. He didn't believe anything. The one thing that he sort of believed that we knew he sort of believed was he was sort of pro-choice, okay? He overturned Roe v. Wade. So, like, you know, it's a really good example. So that's why, in my mind, I think Democrats would be better served by focusing more on, like, is this an effective politician who can win, number one, and who will do what we want them to do when they get there? And that is it. So that's the candidate question. Now, the leadership question, I think, is a very different question. Chuck Schumer has done some good recruitment for candidates for the Senate. Okay. So I want to give him that. Okay. And he's done some really bad recruitment. I mean, Haley Stevens is a shockingly bad candidate. Shocking, shockingly bad. It doesn't matter what she believes, this person is just shockingly bad. And Chuck Schumer endorsed her over the two other candidates who seem much, I mean, not from an ideological standpoint here, just from a purely being able to speak to other human standpoint, that is a baffling pick. So that's what I would say. I think in some places, he's done smart things. Like if anyone was going to win in Ohio, it's going to be Sherrod Brown. So that makes sense to me. But, you know, places like Michigan getting involved in that primary is just unquestionably ridiculous. I think that you could theoretically put someone else in the Senate because Schumer is just not ambitious in a way that you need in the Senate. And Murphy or, I mean, there are a number of people, I mean, you know, the number three in their Brian shots could be good. I mean, you know, it is definitely, I think in the Senate, time for New Blood. I think And I also think Schumer and Gillibrand together have really pushed hard on trying to keep the status quo in a way that I think has been really destructive. So that's what I would say about that crew. I think the house is a little bit different. And I have, and I would, and I think, I think for a number of reasons that the, that Jeffries is definitely not ideologically maybe quite where the party is where the base is But I also think he like he pretty smart And I think that if he were a little bit if he were just bullied a little bit more by the base that he could do what they wanted him to do That's what I think. I bully him every day. So I'm doing my part. Yes. I also bully him every day. And but I do think like I just think that there I think that I don't think like Schumer is really baked in to a kind of world that does not exist anymore. And I don't think Jeffrey says the same way. I I hear you about Democrats focusing on electability and then getting somebody to do what you want. I think we're a little bit past that. I think that the base is so frustrated that we lost this election to a convicted felon dipshit, a total dipshit. And I think that in order to get the Democratic Party where it needs to be, you've got to have people that go on podcasts, do not cede any ground and fight. If you want to go on a conservative podcast, that's fine, but don't cede their points, Gavin Newsom to Ben Shapiro. It's really brand damaging. And I think that when you get fighters like Zora, he didn't cede any ground. He goes into the White House and Trump's practically dry humping him with his eyes. I've never seen anything like it. So I think we need politicians with conviction. I bully Hakeem as much as I can. I think he's a little bit too corporate, Dem. And I think he services corporations before he does voters. I mean, I'm not disagreeing with you. And I also do think that there may be a wave of populism that this Republican, this Republican, this Democratic leadership cannot control. For example, I mean, that's why, you know, the Democratic leadership did not want Zoran, but Zoran was able to win. And so there's a scenario where these midterms are extremely good for the Democratic base and extremely bad for the Democratic leadership. And, you know, Dayenu, as my people say, like, good. And I do think like, this is the sort of the secret about politics is that if people vote, and if they run, you know, AOC wasn't AOC until she won her congressional campaign. And remember, she ran against Joe Crowley, who was in leadership. So that's the thing is if you win, then it doesn't necessarily matter what, you know, like, and by the way, if they do, I mean, my worry about Schumer is that if Democrats are able to somehow flip the Senate, which would be incredible. I mean, it's a map that does not really look like a flipable map. But if for some reason they were able to flip Ohio and Alaska and these states that really are red states, I would want Schumer out because I worry that Schumer will think that he did that. And he did not. But I'm serious. Like, they're politicians. Like, the idea that these people are like us. It's so true. And here's the thing. If he flips it, he will think he did it and then he'll think he's this great leader. And that's why I think we have to continue to bully them. And I think there needs to be some sort of unseating of both of them. Hakeem has fumbled lately on some issues. I don't know if you saw him on Joy Reid's podcast where Waj asked him about abolishing ICE and he got real indignant and then asked him if he was going to continue to take AIPAC money indignant yeah and it's just like again it's to your point they're so out of touch with the base and how over all of that that we are but molly i want to uh one last question who do you think and this is such a shitty question two and a half years out so sorry who do you think the top two front runners are not who you want but who you think is electable in the democratic 2028 presidency I'm going to hearken back to Barack Obama. This time in Barack Obama's cycle, he was not even a member of the Senate. So I'm just saying like, it is certainly possible that we will be, you know, watching the same old grudge match from 2020. But I think there's a real possibility, especially when you have a base that's this angry, an electorate that's this engaged, that there is a world where the candidate who is going to come in and sweep the nomination is not even in the mix yet. And that's what I'm hoping for, because I just I think and I think about that in 08 when Obama did that. I love that. OK. But and also, I mean, just one last thing, like Newsom is turned out, so he's going to be out of office in 2026. So maybe he can keep himself relevant for another two years, but maybe he can't. And, you know, I mean, it's just like I would say one of the things that Democrats should focus on is like they have such power at this moment and they have such a base that is energized at this moment. And if they have wants, like tell those politicians what you want. You have so much more power than you think. I completely agree. Molly, I love having you on. I'll see you back in New York. Yes, please. OK. All right. Thanks, Molly.
