#4647 Reminisce Me With That

Come with me to try the Yuzu Pepperoni Cup Ranch Bob Caposta at Sausage Hole Collective. This charming windowless food shack is a gem in the crown of Las Vigangeles, North Ohio. Tonight, we're here to try their Dubai Chocolate Cream Cheese Everything Bagel Cinnamon Bun. And you can't leave without going to Break Up Bang's Burger House right next door and trying their Karna Burger with extra vor sauce. These two local favorites hit the spot every time. T-T-L! I don't have a soul, Baragas! That's an intergalactic space greeting. That means hello, space brothers. Do not put that on the imaginary radio show. I don't know if it's video games or what, but it's so unfair to after something like this to blame people in the backseat or say they deserve it. I don't know who that is and I don't care to find out. Oh, I get it. You're joking. See? I'm cool. I get jokes. Listen, please, please, please. If anybody doesn't know the difference between a valence and a jobo, I really need you to leave. Shhh. I get it. I know who you are. It's been explained to me. I'm into it. Let's talk. All right. Hello. Good morning and welcome everyone to a Thursday edition of T-B-T-L, the show that just might be too beautiful to live. Here we go. Not going to mess this up. Not going to mess this up. Here we go. Ready? Hot. My name is Luke Burbank. I am your host. Yeah, oh yeah, buddy. Coming to you from the Madronahill Studio perched high above the mighty Columbia where it's not raining. That's a positive because if it was raining, it would be snowing because it's very cold here. Very, very cold. But I got out here early this morning in the Madronahill Studio. I fired up all of the heaters. And so we're actually at a nice temperature here as we arrive at episode 4,647 in a collector series. Let the fun begin. I saw an article in the Washington Post. Why is aspirational clutter the hardest to part with? Why is the junk that is aspirational in our life? If you touch my junk, I'm going to have you arrested. Why is that the stuff that's very hard to Marie Kondo out of your life? We'll go through that. So time permitting. We'll talk about the latest yoga trend that is sweeping Portland. It's snake yoga. Our motto is to catch a snake, become a snake. Think like a snake and be a snake. By sweeping Portland, I mean one place is doing some Portland. And it got it in the newspaper. Also it's a Thursday, a K, Blurs Day. So do the Blurs Day messages. And of course, we will welcome this feller to the show. This is the longest running Cobra of the program, maybe best known for his depictions of the tall ships. It took me, I don't know, however many episodes doing this show together up until I think yesterday to realize I'm very jealous of this guy's ability to have a beard. It took seven months to grow and needs half an hour's grooming every morning. But it looks amazing. He's Andrew Walsh and he's joining me right now. Good morning, my friend. Good morning, Luke. I told you before the show that I had an email that caught my attention this week and I'm going to share it with you here at the top of the show. By the way, you know those Blurs Days you referenced that are coming up later in the show? Yeah. Blurs Day. Blurs Day. Wow. Have we ever had one? I don't think so. Not that I can remember. Have we ever had zero? Probably not on purpose. Does that indicate? We probably forgot to do it. I don't know. Does that indicate a tremendous lack of coitus nine months previous to this week or a tremendous fall off in our listenership? And do they have to be separate? A little of column A, a little of column B. Because remember, I'm just remembering this now. Our listeners that we don't have weren't having sex or at least their parents were having sex. Do you remember? I'm just remembering this now. We went into this at the beginning of last week, so we are noticing a trend. It was fallow last week as well. And so I was doing the math, looking back nine months and trying to say there's a certain type of person who has a child or type of people who have children who will grow up to listen to TBTL. And those types of people, the parents of eventual tens. They are not horny in May. In May. Was that the month? I forget. I don't know. I mean, that seems wrong. It seems like one of the horniest months. I couldn't agree with you more on that. I'm sorry that we can't debate this. Spring is springing. Right? There's fresh flowers are blooming. Bunnies are hopping around if you know what I mean. Our listeners are more like a kind of indoor kids. Maybe they like to get to it in November or something. By the way, I've been seeing a lot of bunnies throughout the winter. I always think of springtime as a time for bunnies. Yeah. Have you been seeing that? You know what I'm seeing a bunch of right now, and it's driving me crazy, is I've got a mole going to town on my yard right now. Wanted to add a few comments regarding your mole situation. Like I've got just right out my window here, five mole hills, Andrew, and I will make them out none of them. Well, it's, I don't know. For some reason that also doesn't seem like winter behavior. Now, of course, if I was a mole, I would want, I guess I'd want to be underground where maybe it's a little warmer right now. I don't really understand what their whole like deal is, but moles digging up mole hills in my yard seems like a spring and maybe summer activity. This feels like a weird time for it. It does. The weather has been somewhat spring like for the past five days, but it sounds like this has gone, you know, gone on before that, which does remind me. No, just cropped up. It just literally like one day ago when I got home. Oh, okay then. I saw these. They're brand new, or as my mom would say, I saw these and they are, these are fresh mole mole hills in my yard. Wanted to add a few comments regarding your mole situation. We need to talk about what's going on in my basement. By the way, I think we have another critter again. Bingo's been hunting. Oh no. I don't have time to get into it right now, but I think we're also very close to just tearing that entire part of the basement apart probably in the next week or two. By the way, there will be some construction noise in the podcast again for folks who missed that from your end of things. I think I will be living through a construction zone for a month or so. I am so flipping excited about this. Yeah. We don't even, well, okay. I don't have time to get into that now. We'll talk about that maybe tomorrow or next week. I've been in that, but man, there's, I, if we could turn this into a home renovation podcast, I mean, I tried to for the last three plus years, but if we could, I would be, I am, I'm so much more engaged in this conversation than I was five seconds ago. Well, we're going to side step that. Disengaging. Disengaging. You can just gloss over now. You can, do you want to, you know what? I told you you could bring one toy to the podcast. Did you bring your tic-tac? Did you bring your tic-tac? I brought my, can I be on my iPad for 30 minutes? You can play on your iPad while I, 30 minutes. That's it. That's the limit. Reminisce here. Maybe I'm actually, no joke. Maybe I'm making a mistake by pushing this so hard, but I guess to complete my thought, I got this note from our friend Max, who joins us on the show quite a bit during live shows. Max the actor. Exactly. He acts, he acts to the max. Acts actor, illustrator, Bon Vivant. That's right. He is listening back through the TBTEL archives. We have several listeners who are doing this. I think he went back, I think he started listening around 2013 or something, maybe 2012, but he went back to the beginning and is now, he says he's about a year past from when he first started listening. So he's caught up on everything he hadn't heard before. Now he's re-listening. And he's in this part of the journey. And when I think, I want to set this up a little bit. When I think about what you and I do here, we joke about it being somewhat disposable media, but we're also somewhat serious about that. We're talking about TV shows the other day and whether it's super sad that Netflix tells creators don't be too memorable, don't be too good because people just want to watch or listen while they're doing other things. And in a certain way, while television is a different creature, that is the kind of radio that I sort of enjoy, the stuff that you don't have to hang on every single word if I'm thinking about podcasts is hard for me to follow the more in-depth reporting in podcasts sometimes. I do a ton of 15-second backings on my phone just like getting back, back, back. If it's something that I, because my mind will wander and then I'll realize like, oh wait, I lost the thread here. Right. And that's why there's no thread on TBTL. That's right. There's no thread at all. And as a listener, I'm like, well, is there a thread though? That's the question. I'm like, yeah, that's why when I was in my Dan Lebotard show phase, that's what I loved about it. You could literally walk in and out of the room. You don't have to catch everything. It's like a lot of just chitter chatter. You don't even know how much you're listening or caring about any of it. And then some of it will stand out and you'll remember it. And I enjoy that. And when I think of TBTL, I think about that as what we're doing. I will ask me two hours after we're done recording today what we talked about today. And I will not have much of a memory of it. Maybe that just speaks to my bad brain. But obviously, there is a narrative arc. You've been doing this show since 2009, eight, sorry. And obviously, it's always had a component that focuses on your life and personal experiences that I joined, I think, in 2012 or something. So you and I have been doing this together for a long time, too. And of course, there's a narrative arc. And yes, sometimes it's kind of like, oh, what's this juggalo headline in 2012 or something like that? But other times, it does get a little bit more real. And that gets to this email that I got from Max. He says, I'm going through the archives still. In my archival time stream, you are about to head down to Los Angeles to live with a mysterious French girl, her dog, and her pool, which is accurate, although taking out a context. I believe a part-time model, right? I feel like you low-key that. Model and actor. Yes. French model is a very intriguing kind of person to live with. Not like that you try any funny business, but that's just a vivid character in my mind. Oh, I tried funny business. I had a rubber chicken. I had a whoopee cushion. I had one of those bike horns. And actually, she was French, so it translated really well. We got along really, really well. She actually loved it. She loved it. You are like a Jerry Lewis type. She said you. I'm very, very sassy. I won't do the accent, but she said you studied under the masters. Anyway, he says, however, there appears to be an episode missing in the stream. I just started listening to episode number 1476. We were mere babes, Luke. 1476. And there's a reference to a very morose show. Bean hated it. Chris Hayes loved it, but it's missing. It's episode 1475. Bean hated it. When I was scrolling through, I assumed it was just a numbering blip, but no, it's a gap in time. So if there's any way to track that down, I'd be very curious to hear it. So I went into the online archives that we have, like kind of publicly available from our website, and I'm trying to get back to it now. I have a theory, by the way. OK. And I'll let you say your theory, but let me just say this before I give you more details about this. I don't have an infront of me right now, but the episode after this, the one that lets Max know that there's something missing, is titled something like Very Happy Show. And the description is something along the lines of, after yesterday's controversial show where we bummed everybody out or something, we decided we're going to put together the happiest TBTEL in history today or something along the lines of that. And I thought that that was sort of telling as well. And he's right, though. There is no episode, here it is, episode 1476. It's called Happy Show. Luke and Andrew attempt to host the happiest show ever to make up for Wednesday's Depression Fest, but there's no Wednesday show. It was missing online. Now what's your theory? Well I remember, it was long ago, but I remember there were a couple of shows where we legit got into it. And I think, I mean, it's so rare for us. I think what I remember was that there was a period of time where in my mind it was like, this show's just got to be so real, man. And like, if that means Andrew and I are arguing, and like, that's just like, you know, we've always joked about hot talk. I don't think I was ever trying to create hot talk on the show, but I do remember having a moment of time where I thought you and I legitimately being kind of annoyed at each other or arguing with a sort of certain real intensity on the show is just super compelling. And that's just like, hey, if that happens, that happens. And then I remember, I don't know if somebody actually said this or this was maybe you paraphrasing or me paraphrasing somebody was like, I don't like it when mommy and daddy fight. So I just remember there being a brief moment where I was just like, you know, hey man, if we disagree on something, then we disagree and we're going to have it out. And then like that happening a very, very minuscule amount of times, maybe once, maybe twice. And then hearing people go like, I don't like that. Like that's not why I tune into this show. That makes me feel uncomfortable. So I'm wondering if that's what was half, although it doesn't sound like the way we're describing it is that we were just you and I were sad as opposed to you and I were fighting. Yeah, I don't think you're right about that in this case. And by the way, my experience is that's exactly what you are. God day. I remember that happening about twice on the show. I think it happened after this. I think I was in LA both times. And I honestly, in my expectation, because let's see, at least the ones where I posted it and I feel like I was in LA and I feel like those times that I remember, I remember posting those not because I thought like TBTL has to be real, but because I thought I was in the right and I thought you were wrong. And I was like, why would you want to do that for those? Yeah. So I was no, were you posting from LA? Well, it was after we got hired, but one, one APM. Yeah. But anything pre APM, you would have been posting. Right. And so anyway, I'm going to give you some more context for this as well. And then I think you know, do you know the answer to this? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So, okay. So I go to our official web page and it kind of like when you are archives on our website can only go back, you know, so many years. But if you want to see the whole thing, you click on a button on our website that says like show entire archive and it takes you to the Libs Insight and it just goes back to day one. If I go back a couple of shows before this missing show, here are some descriptions from November 18th. Andrew calls in while packing up his apartment and trying to decide which CDs, if any, he should bring to LA. Andrew details his plans for not crying during his final radio broadcast. That was the day before that. So I'm wrapping things up in Seattle, getting ready to move down to LA to take that job at KCRW. And episode 1474, the last one before the missing episode, it says Luke comes to the defense of a controversial Toys R Us ad plus info on how you can watch TVTL live at Uber headquarters on Thursday. So if you'll recall one of the last things I did in Seattle, and it was hard for me to say goodbye to the city and my radio show and everything, was we did a Uber Gen, then known as Uber Gen, you know, invited us to do a live show up in that room. Smith Tower, I think. Yeah. And then we all got together at the night light, rest in peace. I believe Drew Barth did stand up comedy. Yes, good remembering. So all of this has started to come into relief for me a little bit, right? I'm like, yes, I'm packing up, whatever. But what is this missing show? And I go to this hard drive that I have that has all of the episodes, and I can't remember exactly the provenance of this hard drive. But basically we have all of our archives online, but I also have a hard drive that I think I populated during one of our big transitions between networks or something. And so I was like, well, is this show actually going to be on the archive or not? Or is it truly lost to history? And it was on the archive. Something was a little bit funky with it, though. Like it's hard to describe. There's metadata on all of the files. When you open it up in a folder, it kind of says, like, author is Luke Burbank, and it sort of has the date and stuff. And this one had none of that information. And it's only 40 minutes long. Now, I don't think that's because I don't think that the lacking metadata has anything to do with the content. I don't think we were trying to bury this episode or anything. I think something got glitchy in the system at some point. Maybe it was transferring everything out of Cairo to APM. Maybe it was something that happened APM. You know, I have no idea why this happened. But I found the file. I have not uploaded it yet, but I will do that hopefully later today if listeners are interested in hearing this. But I'm going to play a little bit of it for you now. And I'm playing it for you, letting you know. I am not proud of what we're about to hear. This is me, I think, kind of at my worst. I don't know. Sometimes maybe I lack energy, and I don't like to hear that. But what I really don't like is when I come in so hot and full of anxiety, and I am machine gunning my anxiety at you. I am just doing that verbal rat-a-tat-tat. No, it's not sad so much. But then you, I think, then say you're feeling some anxiety, too. But I'm going to fast forward through your intro a little. Well, actually, let's hear what the intro tape was a little bit here. This is more about me than you. And I'm saying that to protect you, not to... You can see via the video link, Andrew, that the very idea... If I could show you, if you could see close up, the hairs on my arm are standing up at the very thought of listening to our own voices from what is it, 10 years ago, 10 plus years ago? Well, I'm happy to, again, we don't... Because this is mostly... I was going to play mostly just tape of me and how awful I think I sound. But also how real the moment is to a degree. Maybe that's what I'm getting at here. And this is also a very specific time. Like you and I right now, we're talking on a random Thursday in the middle of January, while we have some things going on in our lives. I know you're really excited about that remodel, basement remodel conversation coming up. But I'm not picking up my life, quitting a job I love, hoping that I made the right decision to move to a different city when I love the one I'm in. You know what I mean? This really was a pretty big moment in my life. And it was sort of like going back and looking at photos or something and being like, wow, yeah, this was a big time and we have it all recorded. And it's kind of an interesting experience. So I'm just curious here because I don't remember what was the opening tape and is it something we'd still play today? Tell me, tell me, tell me. Oh, yeah, it certainly is. Great intro. Don't dance to Ditto, dude, right? So let's say that maybe with the intro and then your opening, I'm going to skip ahead maybe about three minutes into the show. I mean everything. OK, so you already hear me. We're at a tat-tating. I'm going to back this up a little bit. Great. OK. OK. Oh, geez, Louise. So you would think that I could have sat on this tape a little bit better. Let me pick it up here. Nothing changed between yesterday and today, but I need you to know. Were you less anxious yesterday? Yeah, I mean, I go through. I go through. I ended the day. A lot of alcohol every night. Trying to not feel your feelings. I'm trying to think. So it was what's today Wednesday? Today is Wednesday. So far, I'm doing great. Yeah, I knew that today was Wednesday. So Monday would have been the first day that I woke up, you know, like the first day after closing down the old night show. As a matter of fact, as Ron Upshaw posted on my Facebook page, today is the third day of the rest of my life as he put it. So Monday was a day where I don't know exactly what that means, but it's kind of a good joke. Yeah, it's a pretty good joke. Woke up. So my favorite bright eyes songs. I knew that. That's what I got. I got a lot of things done on Monday, just like taking tons of stuff with a good will, just really, you know, packing, making stuff done. Had a lot of great meetings with some folks over at the new job. Making stuff done. And then and then Monday night, you know, Genevieve came home and she was she was working all day, of course, and comes home and the house is kind of in disarray, half packed, half not and stuff. And, you know, I could just tell that she was very anxious. And I could imagine how that would feel like, you know, if the shoe were on the other foot or whatever, it's just kind of like, oh, you come, you leave the house at the beginning of the day and it's exactly like the house you've been living in for five years and then you come home and, you know, from a hard day at work and it just everything is kind of upended. Like that's a and so I could just tell that she was I guess this is a reminder to me and I'll remind you, Luke, that Genevieve did not move down to LA with me right away, which is why I was renting that Airbnb. Hence you and the French model lady. Yeah, exactly. La la. Oh, la la. And so, you know, I don't I'm having trouble even remember. I keep on picturing myself leaving my Wallingford apartment here, but that's not the case. Wallingford came years later when you returned to Seattle. And like it's really hard for me to even as you listen to me. So this is me leaving Capitol Hill. So now I'm trying to remember. So I'm packed. I've packed up a whole bunch of stuff. I can't remember what Genevieve's deal was. She did she she might have rented a smaller place here in Seattle or she just lived among boxes. I think that was the case. I think we just wanted to pack up the house as much as possible while both of us were still here in Seattle so that I wasn't leaving her to do all the packing. But either way, that must be what I'm referring to is like Genevieve comes home. She's just living her life, but she comes home to a house that's all packed up. Just night. I was feeling really good Monday night. And I was just saying, you know, don't be anxious. Like this is this is great. Like we're so close to what we've been wanting to do for a long time and everything. And then so it's one of those things where I feel like when you're in a relationship, any kind of relationship, you if one person maybe is over reacting a little bit, the other person will be the stabilizer. You know, yeah. So I was feeling great Monday, like God, a bunch of shit done, etc. And then yesterday I just woke up really, really anxious, really anxious about things. As the day went on, I had a few more work meetings. The more I talk about work, usually the better I feel about it later. I got some more stuff done yesterday. I was feeling good this morning though, man. It's what time is it? It's 12, 13. I can't shake. I can't shake the shake the angst, anxiousness. Can't shake it. Just feel well said all around. Also, the fact that I called 12, 15 morning really says a lot about me. Well, I've done that this week. That's true. But I believe I start to consider 30 PM to be the morning. So I play that for you. And maybe I shared all of my thoughts about it before playing it. And so I don't have a power out. But I was just really it was such a weird thing for me this morning to hunt down an old episode of TVTL that could have been anything. It could have been you and I just seriously like talking about some dumb story where somebody was mysteriously pooping at a high school racetrack or something, you know, I knew it wasn't that. Because Mac said that this was a controversial show that for some reason being hated and Chris Hayes loved. And but just to go back and hear just such a I'm embarrassed about how I sound there. I don't sound like a good host. I'm not saying words sometimes. And I'm certainly not saying the right words other times. But it was a very interesting moment just to hear TVTL truly as an audio diary almost. Yeah. And I mean, first of all, I did not think you sounded overly like ratatat or, you know, like if you hadn't described it that way before we listened, I wouldn't have even really picked up kind of like that you were, you know, motor mouthing or something. You and also honestly, as I listen back to it, I was sort of intrigued. I was I was I was I was interested in like what you were going to say next. Because I what I what I was hearing was a person who was just like without without a filter, just reporting how they were feeling. And the fact that you were talking about how you went to bed feeling kind of OK, but then just woke up feeling pretty not OK. I totally agree with you that it is it is interesting to listen back to something like this and realize that we have been you and I have been basically just recording a five day a week audio diary for approaching 20 years. And also, I think that's what people find intriguing about it. It's why sometimes when we go into a kind of a different recording mode where the shows are a little more standalone, some people find that to be a little bit less compelling. I mean, the main thing this show has going for it, if anything, is that it happens five days a week and our lives continue to sort of like occur during those during the hours between the show taping. And then we get together and then we talk about how we're feeling on that day or what happened the night before this morning or when I realized today that I did not, in fact, take my garbage up the hill and it was not picked up. Yeah, we can talk about that. Even the very banal, like I mean, in you moving to L.A. That's not a banal topic. But like the main thing that I think that people find interesting about the show is that it really is a it's a like a it's a long running project where two guys are just talking to each other about whatever it is that happened to them and how they feel about it. And then the next day there's a new set of things that happened. And we have a new set of feelings about those things. All of it sort of backdroped against some very old tape from Arrested Development. It's a tape that barely ever gets updated. Wasn't that old then? I mean, I mean, think about like, like it's crazy that the thing that I'm struck by whenever we listen to old episodes of TV tell is that it's almost all the same drop tape. Yeah. Yeah. I know. Unfortunately. Well, that's why that's on me. That's my responsibility. Oh, you're talking about the drops you drop in. Yeah. The drops that I use are so I've just been going, you know, they've been treading the same path, but no, I like Tommy, Tommy, Tommy, all that glit the gold that glitters or whatever he says. It's the music of Rush, right? No, Dido, right? Well, he starts out talking about Rush and he says, I know it's not one of your Dido CDs. He's quoting Rush. I know it's not one of your Didos. That's a very Saxon Dale kind of move. Right. But anyway, all that to say, Andrew, I didn't think that you sounded like crazy on that episode, but I also understand why you feel the way you feel listening back. But I also understand why that is, why that kind of just energy is the thing that people, I guess, tune into the show for, whether it's coming from you or me and whether it's a day that we're high energy or maybe lower energy. The fact that like this is just a, this is kind of a running audio diary of our lives is, I think, kind of what the, what the interesting part of the show is. You know, it also reminded me of, and this is a bit of a sidetrack here, but I was listening to this tape earlier today and then as I putted around this morning, it reminded me of what else was going on in this moment. Something that I don't, I could be wrong about this. I don't think I've ever told this on the show before and I'm old enough now and enough time has passed that I just don't care. But this would have been a few days after Madeline Brand tried to force me off of TBTL. Do you remember that? I had memory hold that or maybe I blacked it out because that was such a traumatic memory, but right. Like, so the, I mentioned that it was the, I like that Friday before this episode. And I think I said that was a Wednesday. I was doing my last show on Cairo with very mixed emotions. Like, did I do the right thing of taking this job to start the show with Madeline down at KCRW? And I, you know, I was in a generally a good place and I had made plans to continue to do TBTL out of the studios of KCRW because that was going to be my ISDN connection. That was a big consideration for me and you in the future of the show as I decided to take this job. You know, how will I do TBTL? Because this is before we had all of the internet technology that we have now where we can dial up so seamlessly. It was, it's just amazing that this wasn't that long ago, but it was such a different scenario. We're trying to figure out, do I get an ISDN line at home? Can I just use a radio stations ISDN line? Everything was ISDN then. And I had, you know, talked to my boss, Madeline. I kind of had the same boss. We entered into the same person, the program director, and he said, yeah, you can use our studios after hours. You have to give priority to anybody who's doing KCRW work, of course, blah, blah. And then I get a phone call from Madeline. She's going to host the show that we're launching together and I'm the head producer on it that Friday. Now, keep in mind, I'm getting ready to say goodbye to the two listeners of the annual show. And I get, you're right. There is only one by this. And there was one set of footprints. And it was the guy who was waiting for coast to coast. That was when Nick Jarran carried you. That's right. And, and so I'm in a weird headspace anyway. And I get this call from her just saying, what is this? I hear you plan on doing TVTL while you're producing my show. And I don't know how she suddenly became aware of it at this late stage, but she apparently had concerns about me, you know, continuing to moonlight on TVTL. And she said something like, well, everything you say represents the show, represents me. I think she even said represents me or reflects back onto me or something. And I was just like, well, this is something that I had arranged. I have, you know, I've always been upfront about this. I wouldn't have, and I said I wouldn't have accepted the job if you were to tell me that I couldn't do TVTL at the same time. And then she got, she's like, well, we have to meet with the boss. And then again, now we're, clock is ticking, we're hours away from me going live on the radio. And I have to have an emergency meeting with my new boss, who I don't know if I've even met in person. I have not. Well, yeah, I met in person once during an in-person interview. And the host of the new show, who's actively trying to get me to quit my passion project and side gig, by the way. Can I interject one little piece of context here, which is that part of, I think, how you were on their radar. And, and, I mean, you got the job because you're, you are a, you would never admit to this in public, but you're an extremely talented radio producer. Like you're just really, really good at it. And so, I mean, that's why you got that job. But a thing that I think was intriguing about you was that you were associated with what at the time was being misunderstood as a very popular podcast, TVTL. And you and you and Madeline were friends. And she, she really thought the world of you. And I think she thought I was, I remember her one time saying, this is Andrew, he's just like Luke. And I remember saying, you have no idea who I am, do you? But like the part of the thing was, because that was at the time where it was like, we got to make, and by the way, I guess this is in a way still the case, but it's like all of the terrestrial radio shows are trying to figure out how to be successful digital products. And this, like the, the, the tea, the fact that you were part of TVTL was seen as a really big, I would imagine. And again, I don't want to say it overshadowed your, your radio chops, because you were a senior producer in your Hampshire. You produced a bunch of stuff in Seattle. Like you really know your shit when it comes to radio producing. But it wasn't not part of your appeal. No, absolutely. And then so far to be like this, this guy's, he's like, he's like part of a, he's part of a cool happening podcast. And then to be like, and now that's why you have to stop being part of it. There's to me some kind of weird irony in that. Yes. And also, I mean, it definitely, you and Madeline were friends. You guys had worked together, you know, professionally for a long time. She thinks the world of you. And so I don't think I even get very far in the process. If she doesn't already know me through you, I think I had been maybe, I think I dropped her an email because of you being a mutual contact of ours long before this job opened up. And I just said, hey, I'm interested in LA if anything ever opens up. So I mean, I would totally credit your relationship as the reason I'm even on their radar, which is totally fine. I mean, that's sort of how things sometimes work, you know, I'm a nepo baby, baby. But but anyway, yeah, so that's that's networking or whatever. But I was I remember the idea that then it was like, but but now you're not going to do the thing that was one of the big things that made you appealing about this job. Yeah. And and also just the fact that it was kind of like, oh, well, what you say reflects upon me now in this way that was like so. I guess just insulting to me. But also like that was in the backdrop of all of this. I'm now having my first real misgivings, you know, after that conversation about like, what have I gotten into? And like in the fact that I have to know. And so I ended up being on this meeting with her and our mutual boss. And he kind of said, well, he was he was a bit mealy-mouthed about it. And but basically, I was able to just say, I said several times, I would not have taken this job if you guys had concerns about this. And so whatever, I just continued. I just did. I just continued doing it, right? And it eventually blew over. But I don't know. I was just sort of thinking about that this morning because it was something that I'm not going to say I totally forgot about, but I don't think about all that often. And hearing me talk, you know, on this tape, we just played and knowing that that's also in the background, but I'm not even saying that, you know what I mean? Because I was uncomfortable saying at the time, I'm you know, mostly comfortable saying it now, although I do know I'm throwing people under the bus, but it but it is what it is. It's a true story. And I'm just like, I don't know. I'm just sort of reliving the same anxiety. And also I think I'm just a bit of in a reflective mode lately anyway. There's a lot of change in my life last year. And it's kind of like, wow, just sort of taking stock a little bit. It was very interesting to hear this, not because I think it's good and not because I am not embarrassed about how I sound, but it was just a reminder that what we're doing here sort of is more than just juggalo talk, which we haven't talked about juggalos in years. I don't know shit about juggalos, but you know what I mean? Just to use that as a stand in. Well, and the other thing, though, and I think this is why you brought this is why you asked Max to email you so you would have a pretext for bringing this up, which is like, thank God, you stood your ground. By the way, no one's ever heard me say those words in that order. Thank God, you adhered to the castle doctrine. No, thank God, you stuck to your guns. Wait, why are all of these bad things? Thank I'm just like, because if I'm in your shoes and it's like, I've gotten hired to be the senior producer for this like hot shit new big show in Los Angeles. And like the one thing that they want me to stop doing is stop doing this podcast with my buddy, which honestly is like a side gig, but is not paying your bills at that time. And it's just kind of like this thing you presumably enjoyed doing. But like I would have if it were me, I would have been like, OK, if I have to choose between KCRW and TBTL, I'm choosing KCRW every time. And like the fact that you didn't do that is so awesome because we would not be here today, you and I. And I know that even when you eventually were working that job and it was so it was taxing on you and the hours were early and long and it was a lot of pressure. And then at the end of each one of those weekdays, it'd be time for you to start looking around and trying to sneak into a studio. That was the only part. Yeah. And then run down the hall and flip like an ISD. Remember, we had to set up ISDNs every single day. Get that tellos running. Oh my God. And like, who's using it? No, I mean, really, the like the the fact that you and there was a lot of those moments, too, where I think it was like it would have there was a there were many, many times where it would have made probably more sense for you to kind of walk away from this thing. And had you done that in those days, this thing would have just stopped existing. Because like, I mean, I was I was not capable on any level of like continuing this thing solo. So I'm really, really glad that you kind of that you did not just fold immediately. Like what? Because again, if I'm on the phone with my new boss in LA and my new essentially supervisor, the host of the show, and that person is saying, well, you can't do this podcast with your buddy because that's going to mess up what we're trying to do down here. I would have been like, absolutely, will be deleting all of the files by the end of business today. And you didn't do that. And I am very, very glad that you didn't. Well, I deleted one file and it's the one that apparently which the irony, I guess is an irony or coincidence that the next day, the show description makes it sound like the show that was missing was some whole thing. You know, I mean, like the next day could have been anything else and it would have caused less suspicion on Max's part. Yeah, right. Yes. You know what I mean? And that also, if we can take a moment to this is why conspiracy theories are very compelling, but they usually don't mean shit because and I'm talking about Max now, conspiracy theories make dumb people feel smart. Max, I still love you and I think you do great work. No, we're probably going to need more. This is a perfect example of like a conspiracy theory that like there's like, well, what were they? Why would they say we're doing a happy show because yesterday's show was a sad show? Like, why would you ever do that? And it's like, I don't know. That's just what we said. And then randomly, the like the upload didn't happen on that previous show. Like there's a lot of smoke there and there's actually, it turns out, no fire on the previous, you know, nothing crazy happened on the show that was missing. It was just missing. And by coincidence, the description of the following show made it seem like there was some reason that show had been deleted. Yeah, if this were in more like kind of just banal time and you and I were just doing mostly top stories and headlines and maybe I have some garbage anxiety or I get, you know, whatever, like some smaller narrative, Max would have just assumed as he did at first that it was just a numbering issue, not a missing file, but it happened to be a missing file where you can see from the from the descriptions of the shows in front of it and then behind it, which like you just said references it so heavily that like this was a show that people hate. Right. Like you're like, wow, missing. It's like the it's the missing. It's like Nixon and the what was the missing the Halderman tapes. When he is 16 minutes or something, I accidentally hit the delete button for big chunks of this. You seem to be I won't play it for you because I know that you don't love that feeling either. And I didn't want to try to drag you down with me in playing this. But I think then you go on to talk about some anxiety that you're just having where you just suddenly you just looked around and you just felt like everything was really untidy and messy in your work. Were we in my house? Were we? Well, that's the thing. It sounds kind of. Yeah, I think we're in person. Right. But I mean, were we at my we're probably at my house at that point. I think so because you say something like and again, it's this is a period where I kind of forget this is when I was this is a really this is kind of a cool schedule for me at the time. I would wake up in I think late morning, go to the gym at the bottom of the hill of Capitol Hill, then after the gym, go right to your place, record an episode of TV TL in your house and then leave your house and go do the night show at Cairo and then get home around 10 30 at night and then do it all over again. And but it was it didn't feel like overwork because it was just me talking to you or me talking to Nick Jarron on the radio. You know what I mean? It was right in a way to be kind of be like a sort of a version of show prep for you at least working out some thoughts and stuff. Exactly. And but when I listen to this tape now, it's so hard for me to to picture me and you in that same room when I'm doing this. I'm just trying to tattling. I keep picturing myself somewhere by myself talking to you down some sort of audio line. But no, we were in your home because I said something like, oh, it's pretty neat in here or something. Like, I know, but I just can't, you know, and you were just like, you were just having some sort of anxiety thing as well. That wasn't related to any big changes in your life. But that's what was going on at the time. So yeah, and I guess folks just some folks just did not like us getting too real. Yeah, because how do we know that Bean didn't like it? He must have sent in an email that we read on the show or something like you guys got to pull the nose up on this or something. I have no idea. I have no idea. I'm speculating because I feel like that's that's the other thing. I felt like Bean was the one who gave us the feedback to don't fight on the air. He might have been the one that said we don't like it would mom you. I don't know. Again, we've as we've learned over the course of the show, but more acutely of late, my memory is just absolute Swiss cheese. Like I I'm remembering things about Ralph Nader that never happened. I mean, I'm I am now living that T-shirt that I made up called quit. Remember in that. Oh, like I have officially quit. Remember in that whether I want to or not. All right. Let's thank some donors. The names I'm about to read represent a sort of let's see six members of a larger movement and that is the group of people who would like this thing to continue for whatever reason, even a show where we spend most of the show replaying an older show that we did and then wondering what it all means. These folks like that. They really, really like it and they're donating their money so that this can exist because without folks like Jack Taylor of Marysville, Washington, we wouldn't exist and Jack Taylor has done so much for the show. Beyond just supporting us financially, Jack has made all kinds of amazing art. The Johnny and Bobo dolls are based on original art concepts. I believe by our friend Jack is it very talented. I don't think that's true. Oh, that's not where those came from. No, I think he made art based on those based on Johnny and Bobo. I think I could be wrong. Jack, get at us. If I'm wrong about that, I've established my memory is flawless. Well, it's not like mine is like superb either, but I thought that the dolls were based on the cartoon, the animation that Eric drew for us. Remember Oops, the Dirty Monster. Oh, yes. Yes. No, you're right. Dolls were based on that. And then I think that's now inspired other things. But Jack made these amazing big creations, these cartoon creations of you and these small ones that were like hand puppets, kind of like puppets that were on sticks. Anyway, Jack is amazing. And Jack, thank you for supporting the show for all these years. Nice to see your name on here. Thanks also to Jay and Steven Berejnoj of Portland, Oregon. Hey, friendos. Good to see you, Jay. We go way, way back with Jay. And then I guess to some degree, Stephen, who's now probably forced into conscription. I was going to say thank you for that. Yeah, no, Jay is doing her duty in bringing more people into the cult. So, Stephen, welcome and thanks for hanging with us. It's been a few years now. And thanks also to Michael Havens of Tumwater, Washington. Tumwater. Some of my favorite repeaters are from Tumwater. I am. There's a Tumwater is my go to taco time stop spot when I'm driving from Seattle down here to where I live, which is exactly what happened last weekend after we watched the Seahawks game together. I spend the whole first part of the drive for Seattle through Tacoma and all those areas just thinking, Tumwater, Tumwater, Tumwater. You get to Tumwater. I get to Tumwater and it's time to go to that taco time, which I love. They're great over there. Is this is a serious question. I know we've talked about this incessantly on the show very over the years, but there are two taco times. One is considered sort of real by Pacific Northwest. In each person, there are two taco times. The one that is the quote unquote real taco time that people who grew up here are obsessed with that is the one that is officially called Northwest or is it a taco time Northwest or is taco time Northwest the interloper? No, taco time Northwest is the standard bearer. That's the real deal. That's the true heir. Okay. To the taco time fortune, which is by the way, a mountain cave filled with. They used to call them Mexi fries and now I think they call them tater tots or tater fries or something. Yes. You have taco time international, which is the one that you've got those in Portland, you've got those spread out kind of through the, the West taco time international has a different logo. They have mostly different menu items. It's not a bad place. Like in a pinch, I'm sure a taco time international will do, but it is not part of the part of the true bloodline of the taco time world. And that's all of the ones like so the up in Kelso, Washington, which is just a bit north of me. That is the southern border of legit taco times. And it was part of why I decided to move out here and buy this house because it was, I'm within door dashing of a true taco time. I, uh, I'm looking at the taco time international logo now and I see that it is very different. And so I don't think I've ever seen what I'm going to refer to here as a fake taco time. I don't know if that's fair enough. You wouldn't have, you wouldn't have to be like in Portland or like Eugene, Oregon, or once I drove, I mean, I don't think I drove exclusively for this reason, but it was a factor. There was a, for a time, because I went on the taco time website and I think I'm, this is before I knew there was a distinction. I was living in Los Angeles, a place, Andrew, where it is famously difficult to get good Mexican food. And I was like really, really homesick for the specific taste of like a taco time soft taco and the, the, uh, the tater tots and the ranch dressing, which isn't really ranch dressing, all of this stuff. And I was on the website, like where's the closest taco time to me? And there was one listed at being at a gas station, I believe in Barstow, California. And again, I don't think I drew, I wouldn't have driven to Barstow for this, but I might have like made a specific plan, like maybe I'm going to Vegas or I'm going somewhere that way. It's pretty far from LA and I'm going to make sure to stop at this taco time, at this gas station, because I was like, that's amazing. And then I got there and it was a taco time international. It was not, they didn't have any of the stuff that I was jonesing for of a very specific flavor profile. I like the idea of fear and loathing in Las Vegas only instead of a trunk full of drugs, you just have a trunk full of tater tots and whatever else is on the menu there. There's nothing more vicious than a man who is deep in the throes of a number three meal soft taco binge. By the way, I've had Hunter S. Thompson on the brain because I was reading an article in The Times today about reopening the investigation into his passage. I have that flagged. I saw that headline and I'm interested in it. And yeah, I want to read that as well. I have not dug into it yet. Because of course he's been gone for a long time. He took his own life, or at least that was the assumption. The the main without giving. I mean, can you give away real life events? Is that can you spoil nonfiction events the same way you could spoil a like a fictional book or movie? It's interesting. We get in that conversation with some of the documentaries about real life events, but when they're sort of spread out in a storytelling way, but I am not worried about that in this case. It's a newspaper article. Yeah, I mean, it sure seems like probably he he took his own life, which was the initial report and something he had talked about a lot. He was obviously a gun nut and he was in pretty poor health. There was a lot that was going on in his life that made the circuit. He also wrote a note at the end, which was very much in his voice about the fact that he was going to do that. But the fight is between his son and and his widow. He had only been married for a few years to somebody who had previously been his assistant. And and they kind of have different ideas. The two of them about the sort of legacy of Hunter S. Thompson and it's and she is the one that is now kind of wants to get more explanation about the about the last moments of Hunter S. Thompson's life. There isn't a lot of there isn't a lot of factual stuff in the in the article that kind of like raises for me huge questions. Like I finished the article kind of thinking what I started the article thinking, which is like this probably went down again. I'm already as I've already established this episode. I'm deeply non conspiratorial, maybe to a fault, like maybe to a lack of imagination, like to the point where I'm just generally buying what, you know, what the, you know, what the sort of main narrative is not, not these days, not when it comes to like ice or law enforcement, but generally speaking, you know, if there's if there's a write up in the New York times of years ago, that's his Hunter S. Thompson has passed away. He took his own life. The medical examiner ruled it a suicide. I'm just like, well, that's probably what happened. And that would have her having now read this new article. I still think that's what happened. Well, speaking of conspiracy theories, and I'm sorry to belabor this, but I was sitting here thinking, what was Taco Time International doing? Like, were they purposely trying to like confuse the marketplace? Because I'm assuming that Taco Time Northwest existed first. And if Taco Time International pop ups or not pop ups, but restaurants are only in the same area that there are taco times. Like I didn't have either one of these. It'd be one thing if I grew up in Ohio and we had Taco Time International, right? But it sounds like they're going after the same exact turf. Andrew, do I have to explain Taco Time lore to you? It's rivaled only by the S'morellin. I realized as I started to say that, I don't know how to say that. Is it called the S'morellum or the S'morellium? I know what you're talking about. It's one of those Lord of the Rings. It's the Lord of the Rings. I was trying to make a Lord of the Rings joke. And thankfully, I would imagine that Janice Bowers of Tucson, Arizona, where they famously also don't have a lot of good Mexican food, probably knows all of this lore, but Janice, just stick with us, if you will. It was one company, Taco Time was one company. And then there was like, you know, the couple of the owners, there was a, I don't know if it was acrimonious or not, but there was a split. And so, you know, there was basically like everyone was calling it Taco Time, but this fine distinction was if it was the company that was then technically known as Taco Time Northwest or Taco Time International, they both were, I think, probably free to run their chain of restaurants the way they wanted to. And just the, you know, it was sort of like VHS versus beta. You know, Taco Time Northwest just won out. Like they just probably had a slightly better system. So that that became the dominant style here in the Northwest, but there are still a few examples of beta out there. And I see, so I am on the website. I was just while we were talking earlier, I was just like, well, what's going on with Taco Time International? I saw that it's owned by Kahala Brands, which has a very Hawaiian kind of, well, name and imagery around it. But I'm looking at their website now and they have nothing to do with Hawaii. It was just inspired by trips to Hawaii. It's actually. Yeah, I'm guessing that the owners of Taco Time International have a lovely home on the island. And they, um, the Kahala Brands owns and get ready for this, a whole bunch of brands now. Cold Stone, Creamery, Oh, Blimpy, Taco Time, Samari Sam's, which I have not heard of, Wetzel's Pretzels, which I have heard. They own Wetzels? Maui. Wow. Not Maui. Wowie, which I believe is a strain. When I was a kid, we could only afford Maui. Wow. Pinkberry, Pinkberry, Pinkberry, Planet Smoothie, Baja Fresh, which I kind of like on a road trip. I do like, I mess with, I mess with the Baja Fresh. It's been a long time for me. Great Steak and Surf City Squeeze, which was apparently the original thing. Somebody opened up and I think it's notable that they never say where Surf City Squeeze was originally based, but it says our history. It all began in 1981 when Kahala Brands founder and entrepreneur established a smoothie and juice bar concept known today, known today as Surf City Squeeze. They don't say where that was or who the founder was. Then there's a timeline and it goes, it kind of explains how they start acquiring all these brands. And then it says in 2003, let's see, they purchased the Samari Sam's Teriyaki Grill and then it says they purchased Taco Time. It purchases the Taco Time chain out of the northwest part of the US, which offers a variety of freshly prepared blah, blah, blah. So I guess the people who split off then were acquired by this fake Hawaiian Kahala Brands. That's my read on the situation because I'm Andrew, I'm on the Taco Time Northwest website and their origin story to which I would say. Did it in there and there and there and there and there. Are we going to get in one of those fights that you were talking about before? Well, I am on the Taco Time Northwest. And they're saying that they opened their first restaurant in 1962 in White Center. OK. And a lot can happen. That's what they say. Sixty years and counting a lot can happen in six decades. Discover a few of our most iconic moments. And then they kind of just go through their kind of their origin story. And I won't bore everybody with it. But basically, I think you've described it exactly right, which is. The I would say the the breakaway company, the Taco Time International, was likely then acquired by this shockingly large restaurant interest. It has a number of those restaurants that you mentioned, like Wetzel's Pretzels and Pinkberry. Those are really pretty big. Yeah. Like food concerns. So I have a sense that probably what they're called Kahala or something that like whatever the parent company of that, they probably saw there. Who knows, I'm guessing here, but like there's eight or 10 of these Taco Time International's and we're going to go ahead and buy those up and run those. Is probably what sort of happened there. Do you feel like and I know we haven't had to literally anything on the show. She needs totally my fault. But do you feel like this region that we live in is especially prone to restaurant tours? I'm sorry, restaurant tours. I always say that wrong. There's no end. And I know. And it's like, why would they? Why would the word restaurant tour not have an end? I mean, that's you want to talk about a missing episode. Yeah, get on that. Max. Yeah, Max. That's your next project. I don't know. Why am I yelling at Max? I don't know. What of our what of our best friends and most ardent listeners has now become a conspiracy theorist who needs to solve the mystery of restaurateur. But I feel like there I can list here a few that jump to mind immediately of like kind of famous or like kind of locally famous or locally appreciated chains that have a split. I guess Taco Time would be the biggest example as far as footprint. But I think of like, I don't know if you recall, Paseo, which was like this sandwich sandwich place in Fremont. But I guess the existing Paseo isn't as good as it used to be because the real heart and soul of Paseo left like whoever those chefs are, whatever, sandwich artists left to create their own thing. The new one that's up on like whatever that is 15 or something of it now. But you had the sea Paseo. I think Tan Brothers, which is a thought place around here. I think that was a split off. A Zell's Chicken is a really big one. Talk about beloved, you know, microchains and they went they started heaven sent. And I feel like is there something about this area or am I when I was younger, I just didn't follow this shit. Maybe a little of both. I see. I can't speak to what the scene was in in Ohio because I wasn't there. So I only know about the Northwest. But yeah, definitely. It's a place where people really love the kind of localism of things like that. More so like Dick's Drive-In, for instance. Like here's what I can compare it to like Portland and someone's going to email in and they're going to correct me on this. But like because I've only known about Portland from the time that I've lived in the area, but I don't have a sense of those same kind of stories in Portland. Like, oh, you haven't been to such and such. Like the story with Portland's food to me seems to be, oh, we have these you know, James Beard Award nominee restaurants. And this is the place where you can get the best this and they're starting this place up. Like Portland really identifies as a real food town. But what I don't hear about as much as like, oh, this is a local burger joint that's unique to Portland that's similar to say Dick's Drive-In. And there's all this local energy around it. Like everybody goes there after the baseball game, after, you know, whatever. And so I don't maybe you're right. Seattle might have some. I mean, part of it might be Seattle's blue collar roots. You know, the Seattle that I grew up in was like a very, you know, it was a lot of fishing and timber and bowing. And it just had this kind of, I mean, I think, again, very scared when I try to do things from memory, but I do think there was even maybe a sign in the 70s that said like, well, the last person leaving Seattle turned the light out. That's very famous. Yeah. And kind of like it just had this sort of scrappy, again, blue collar, kind of, I wouldn't say run down, but it just had this energy around it that it was like the people that did live there just liked the things that were there in a way. Like it was, you know, and Taco Time was one of those things chubby and tubby getting your Christmas tree at chubby and tubby. Like there's a lot of lore around Seattle from the 70s and 80s that I think was, I don't know if that was unique to Seattle, but I don't feel like I hear people in Portland. This makes it sound like I'm saying people that live in Portland don't love Portland, but there might be something to what you're wondering about. There might be something about Seattle that we build up these local sort of small time institutions, whether it's Izzelle's fried chicken or Taco Time or or Paseo, and then they become so popular locally that like the center can't hold. And then you have a split off. What if chubby and tubby split? What if you end up with chubbies on one side of town or tubbies on the other side? Unbien, by the way, Unbien was the restaurant. Like I said, Oh, did you? Did you say that? I probably talked right over it. That was the like the when Paseo kind of split. And I don't know the details of it. And I probably already misdescribed it, but I believe you have Paseo still in Fremont and then some Unbien's around town too. I'll tell you, Andrew, if you want my hottest food take, it's that I was never that into Paseo. I went to Paseo with Genevieve, maybe about a year ago. To eat. Yes. Did you say there are two eat or hard hard? Yes, that was my experience. Now, again, this is post split. So I don't know if Paseo as it currently stands in Fremont is a shadow of its former self. Maybe some people would make that argument. Maybe others wouldn't. But I remember like being very excited about getting the sandwich. I don't usually go for really big, messy sandwiches. You and I both have a weird thing about not wanting stuff on our face like messy food. I power through for some foods that you are not interested in like ribs or whatever. But I remember getting the sandwich and I was like, OK, it's going to be a messy sandwich, but the flavor didn't pay off. I've never had a sandwich that was so messy with such little pay off from flavor. It just didn't. It didn't. It didn't have the flavor as expecting. I was very surprised. Yeah. This was years ago when I went to Paseo down, like you said, in Fremont, but it was like the sandwich I got was some sort of pork type of deal. And it was like it was just difficult to eat because it was large. It was pretty messy. And also I couldn't like bite through the pork and the bread because the pork was like maybe a little I don't know if it was grisly or just like it seemed to me like questionable sandwich design. But of course, I couldn't say that because there's a line down the block. Yeah. Everyone's yeah. Everyone's you know, freaking out about this place. But it was it was not it was not for me. That being said, I was kind of weirdly tempted before I got to the Tumwater Taco time, which by the way is where this all started. Oh, yes. I did drive by. I saw a sign on I five for Dix. You know, there's one that's way south now by the airport, which by the way, that's a very, that's very nouveau to me. Like that's that's a like a recent addition, I think in Des Moines or something. But I saw the sign on I five and I was like, man, what's the last time? When is the last time that I went to old Dix Drive in? And if I'm going to do one of my quarterly, my quarterly interactions with red meat, should this be one of those times? I didn't I went to the taco time in Tumwater. Thank you, by the way, to Michael for spurring on that amazing 30 minutes of conversation. We're still thanking donors. Thanks also to Constance Buick of. Albany, New York. Albany. Albany, New York. Thanks, Constance. Appreciate you. Thanks to Glenn Rosen, who's in Newton, Massachusetts. Like Isaac, and you know, I thought, you know, sometimes people use the pronouncer space on the form to sort of make it like if somebody, yeah, like if somebody says, my name is Bill, they'll give a pronouncer for a simple name to pronounce like Bill or something. And I saw that it was Newton, Massachusetts. And Constance put, I'm sorry, Glenn put in the pronouncer. The town is pronounced Newton like Sir Isaac. And I thought that was a joke, but you're right. Sometimes that's pronounced Newtown. I think it's usually with a dub, an extra W in there of its Newtown. But that actually was a very helpful tip and not a joke. And I kind of feel bad for talking smack about Glenn behind his back. Well, now we're talking it in front of his back. That's right. So at least at least there's full transparency. Your sunlight is the greatest disinfectant, Andrew. That's right. As I've always said, when I was sitting under that tree and that apple fell on me, do we think that an apple really fell on Sir Isaac Newton's head? And that was how he got the idea for gravity. We're sure somebody didn't shoot it off his head with a bow and arrow. That was William Tell. That was William Tell. I did see a crazy thing the other day online, a video of a pound of feathers and a pound of bowling ball dropping at the same time in a huge vacuum and they fall at exactly the same rate. If you take away drag, how are they contained? How wouldn't you say a pound where the feathers loose? Well, it was a bowling ball. So it wasn't a pound. It was whatever the bowling ball weighed. And then they put these kind of like lead weights or something on the feathers so that the feathers and the bowling ball weighed the same amount. Right. And first they dropped them. This was actually, you know what? It's in it's in Ohio. I think it's outside of Cleveland, this particular place. And it's this it's a NASA facility has this big silo. And what they're able to do is vacuum out all of the air so that there's absolutely no like air resistance. So first they have it like a normal. There's it's a normal oxygenated environment. They drop the bowling ball and the feathers. And of course, a bowling ball hits first because the feathers are sort of flitting down. And the guy's like, yeah, but that's because of basically air resistance on the feathers. If you get rid of that, these are going to fall at the same rate. And you're like, there's just no way. And then they extract all of the air out of this big vacuum tube canister. And they drop the feathers and the bowling ball and they fall exactly at the same rate and they hit the thing at the same moment. It was such a mind bleep. Wow, that's the Glenn Research Center there in Cleveland. I forgot about that. Yeah, because John Glenn and we're thanking Glenn Rosen and we're thinking of Sir Isaac Newton, Massachusetts. Look at that. And Glenn spelled the same way for both. John Glenn. That's the name for for John Glenn. Let's see. NASA John Glenn Research Center at Lewis Field. They also have a facility in Sandusky. You know, it's in Sandusky. It's America's roller coast. Cedar Point. Yes, indeed. I recently had a thought that I might be up for getting on a scary roller coaster again. Yeah, I had I had just decided that was no longer for me. I have, yeah. What I don't like, what I will never get back on are one of those rides where like, you know, the big the swings where it's like the you're on you're on a swing and a long, you know, chain kind of you're sitting in a swing and it's spinning you around and you're going around and around and around. I will never, ever, ever get on one of those again because what gives me the fear about rides is if this broke right now, I would die. Like if this chain snapped, I would just get flung into, you know, right into the elephant here stand and I would be dead. With a roller coaster, I feel less like that. I feel like a lot of things could break on the roller coaster and you wouldn't die. What can't break is the part that attaches the wheels of the roller coaster to the track, but every almost everything and the track can't break, I guess, as you're trying to. But like, I think it's less dangerous or at least it feels less dangerous. What happened was I was watching like a video. Somebody was filming. This is like the largest. I think it's the new largest roller coaster in the world. It's somewhere in the Middle East, I think, unsurprisingly. And they were filming being on it and I was watching it and it was very POV, right? Like it's it was very much like you were on the roller coaster and I was like, that looks kind of scary, but fun. So I need to be careful with my language here, because I don't want to say something that is like kind of triggering to people or be flippant about human life, my my own included. But I'm actually getting very sweaty palms talking about this and thinking about this. So as you know, I'm scared of heights growing up. I was scared of heights and I didn't go on roller coasters. But then when I got into high school and again, I lived by Cedar Point, which is one of those parks is internationally known. It often has like the world's tallest or fastest roller coaster or ride. It's always in competition with these other parks like you mentioned in Dubai or wherever else. And so it's like it's a real it's the real deal, you know. And in high school, I started going to Cedar Point with my friends and then I started getting on roller coasters. I don't know if it was peer pressure or what. And then I started going on them and absolutely loving them for a short period of my life. Just loving roller coasters. But then got to an age where the fear of heights has snuck up on me again. I'm not in the habit of going to amusement parks. And so I don't think I'll ever last time I went to Cedar Point, I went with my parents and Genevieve and Genevieve was the only person who wrote a bunch. It was like it was like having a kid. It was like me and my parents had this kid who was like running around. We're just waiting for her eating ice cream cones while she would be like in an hour long line to go on. And just absolutely insane mechanism, right? And at Cedar Point, there is still the swings that you describe. And I know kind of where they are kind of, I think they're tucked kind of behind old town like Cedar Point is such a whatever. It's just such a memory for me. And I have a nostalgic feel towards them. And also it's a really nice view and I'm still scared of heights, but you get up there. And the thing about Cedar Point is it's right on the lake. So when you get on these rides and you go up, you have the incredible views of Lake Erie. Yeah. And the rest of the park and everything. And so it's really cool. But the thing is I will go on that chair ride and you are right. When I'm on it, I'm even thinking if something blows here, I'm spinning. I'm looking at like where I'd spin out and where I would land or something. But I would rather take that risk, which I think is minimal, than being on one of the tallest roller coasters in the world, having it break and then having to walk down the stairs. I guess I didn't think about that part. My biggest thing is and people do that. People have to do that. I can't tell you how many times I've been at Cedar Point where a ride. Well, it's not like it happens all the time, but I know that I was in line for a ride one time when it stalled for a while and then a pick back up again. And I think that's right. I was with my buddy Joe and I said, and Joe's like, well, I'm staying in line. They're opening it back up. And I said, and for this I'm out. And I just left him in line. And I went again, ate a hot dog or something. I don't know the idea of now for me when I'm going up the roller coaster, you know, the first hill or whatever, and you see those stairs that lead down. Never even close those stairs are there for a reason. And it's because sometimes people have to go down those stairs. And I know I couldn't do it. I know I'm getting upset thinking I'm seriously having a physiological reaction to this conversation right now. I think about those stairs and the fact that I could potentially have to unbuckle my seatbelt. Right. Move the thing up and climb out of the roller coaster car. Do we call it so high up? Higher than some airplanes fly, Luke. That's scientific fact. I was standing by that and walk 30,000 steps down. Like I just the idea of doing that. I am like, you know what? Put me in one of those swings and swing me out to Lake Erie and fire fire arrows at me as I go down. You're like, just make it quick. Make it, you know, you'd rather it just be over then not over, but now involving you having to do something that's like deeply terrifying. But I'm looking at the emergency evacuation spiral stares on the Val Raven roller coaster, which I think might be at Cedar Point. And they are in their enclosed kind of that. That's not the ones. The ones I'm talking about are on a regular roller coaster up the hill and they're to the either left or right. Like if you're in, you know, you're in the car and they're just stairs. They're just stairs with a railing. What do they do? Metal stairs. What if you're like in? What happens if you're like not at the tippy top? Let's say that you're like you happen to be in a car that's part of the way down the the the hill, as it were. Would you have to climb out of the car? Are there like, are there stairs? Is there a walkway that goes all along the thing? Or do you only have to do that if you're at the tippy top and it stops? I think it's the stairs are only where you have a chain that is pulling you up. And so I only I could be wrong about this, but I've only. Oh, when I see the one you're talking about, I'm looking at the ones I do. You know, I mean, I haven't been on as many roller coasters as you probably went on back in the day. But now I'm seeing exactly what you're talking about. It never even occurred to me to look over and look at those stairs. They're just going exactly down what you're going up. Because the rest of the roller coaster is gravity, right? Now there are mechanisms could go wrong in the cars. Like brakes could potentially freeze you somewhere else on the track. And I don't know what you would do there. I don't think they have stairs on. I know they don't not on the twirly, you know, on the on the, you know, loopy loops or whatever you couldn't have stairs. But yeah, I'm just laughing because I'm looking at a photo on the Cleveland 19.com. Guests escorted off of Cedar Point roller coaster after train stops on Hill. And I'm watching people that are living so incredibly inside your nightmare, Andrew, and they are like clinging to the handrail as they're going down this thing. So don't look at that. Don't look at that photo. You don't need more nightmare fuel. Yeah, I guess not. Although, like I said, I'm just not touching those things anymore. Big or tall, my roller coaster days are past. Big or tall. That's where I get my pants. What am I saying? You can be. Well, Luke, thank you so much for putting together a show sheet today. Put all that work into a show so that I can come on here and just toiling over a hot laptop this morning, getting articles like aspirational clutter, snake yoga. I just did not let you have any control over the show. We started the show on the premise of like what's interesting about the show is not Juggalo talk as much as it is us talking about how we're afraid to go on roller coasters. You did have a talk on the history of Taco Time Northwest. That's right. And whatever happened to Hunter is probably going there for lunch today, by the way. Yeah, I got in there. Got in your head. Yep. Yeah, I'm on a mission. All right. So we do. I'm sort of stalling here because I'm just going to go back into my spam. Really take our time. I can't believe we only have one. Well, blur kind of have to. Oh, you want to add one? Do you want to do it now? Do you want me to do? Yeah, I want to say happy Blur's Day to Becca. My beloved girl. That's right. That's today is her actual birthday. Nice. Well, happy Blur's Day to Becca. How did she do on Whirtle today? I don't think I've done it. Oh, I'll ask her. She had a very, very busy day. So I don't know. Yeah, Blur's Day related or work related? How did work related? I was trying. We're trying to make some some birthday plans. And and she was like, I would love to. But then she laid out her day for me. And it was completely insane. It's like you agreed to all of these things on your birthday. Yeah. How did you do on Whirtle? Andrew wants to know. By the way, there is a listener and I'm sorry that I forgot your name, but I've been thinking about you a lot lately. You wrote to me about Whirtle about three weeks ago or two weeks ago. And I feel like I didn't feel like maybe my email was maybe a little rude because I never heard back from you. And you wrote to me. I responded and you suggested a different starting word for me to start using for my Whirtle every day, because I was bemoaning the fact that I used the same word for years and years. The word arise was a good starting word for me. And a listener wrote in and said, well, how about this? I used to use arise or something similar to why don't you try using this one? And I said, well, that it has a lot of the same letters. And I said, well, that would be good, except that one also has already hit on Whirtle. And I don't want to use an opening word that hasn't that has already been used, that there's no chance that that could be the word. And I never heard back from you. So maybe that was a bit rude for me to say that you continue doing whatever works for you. But I have found a replacement starting word. I'm making this announcement right now. Nobody tell Genevieve, though, because she doesn't know. And I don't want her to know because then she can sort of gamify it. And if I go first, she can figure out what's going on. But the my new starting word of the past couple of days or week or so is aired. Sorry, I'll wait for it. Wow, aired like as in I previously aired. Exactly. Programming. Exactly. Oh, yeah, that aired yesterday because that's got your A, your I, your E. Those are the vowels I like to start with. And then if none of those vowels hit, I can do like clout next, which gets your O and your U in there and a T is important. So that's the thing. Like with my arise word, I had a game plan sort of. I kind of knew how to react. You're like an NFL coach. You had your first 10 moves already scripted. Yes, or a college coach. Right. So anyway, I'm going with aired. And so to the listener that I was just horribly rude to consider that one as well. That might be in your same letter family. All right. We are obligated to listen to the entire Blur's Day song. And we only have one. It would be amazing and very fitting if we ran out of time to do the one. Blur's Day message. We start talking about wordle and other things. And then all of a sudden it's like it's I'm sorry, ran out of time for who the one person. That's right. All right, I'm going to get to this. I'm sorry for well, two people. Happy Blur's Day, Rebecca. Yes, thank you. Do do. And then Jessica says, happy Blur's Day to my awesome five Ned. I love the name Ned, who just turned 15 years old. Here's to a sensitive, curious, empathetic kid who inspires his mom every day to do more and swear less. And as I've told him the end to explain that the insomnia caused by my pregnancy with Ned is actually the reason I started listening to podcasts in the middle of the night and found TVTL all those many years ago. Power out. So thanks to Ned. Wow. 15th Blur's Day. Thank you for being extremely active in utero and making it so that your mom had to put something tremendously boring into her ears to fall asleep. And we were that tremendously boring thing. He's a kicker. We got a kicker. All right. Happy Blur's Day to Ned, to Becca. And I hope Jessica sleeps easy. Also, I guess, you know what, like belated Blur's Day. Wait, no, I already did that one. I was going to say it was my niece, Gemma's Blur's Day. You just really feel like you need to pad this out, don't you? I just have a big family, Andrew. And I want to feel bad if I leave anybody. Yeah, I mean, there probably is, you know, do you do this? I have all of my, actually, I don't have Gemma's, but like I have every Blur's Day, every birthday that is important to me, which would be anybody in my family, extended family, stuff like that. I've got it all in my calendar. Yeah, I got most of them on my calendar too. I have no ability to remember that kind of stuff. But it helps, you know, it helps to have it in there. It's all a little formal when I was doing it. But well, here's a true story about me and my Google Calendar is at some point, and I'm talking years ago, like over a decade ago, I think Google Calendar just started, like somehow scanning my emails or something or maybe my contact list and just started automatically putting certain friends birthdays and family members birthdays on my calendar at auto populated it from things that knew. But this is a really long time ago. And here's the kicker, Luke, just like Ned. Yeah. It they were all off by one day. Whoa. I don't know why I have no idea. So I still see birthdays sometimes and think, wait a second, is today their birthday or is it actually tomorrow? And I've been kind of spending the last, like, I don't know, five, 10 years trying to get things back in order. That's almost worse. That's like worse than just not having them at all because you're constantly going to be questioning it. Yeah. And what I need to do and I because I just had a family member's birthday over the weekend and I had to confirm with another family member, I'm like, I do have that right, right? I should put in the calendar confirmed. That's a very Andrew move to be like, yes, this has definitely been confirmed. But that all I see is like a lot. Yeah. I am this morning, I woke up very early to go use the restroom as is typically the case at this age. And that was when I sent Becca because it was technically her birthday. And that's when I sent her a happy birthday message and I sang her a little happy birthday song. And then I went back to bed with this like strong smug sense of satisfaction knowing I was the first person who had wished her happy birthday. Uh-huh. Yeah. You know, because she comes from a big family and they're all very loving and birthday wishy and they also do the thing where they sing the song and they send you the singing of the song and everything. But I was like, nobody else was up at 4 a.m. Doing this. And that was all thanks to my enlarged prostate. Happy birthday from me and my large prostate. That's right. Somebody make that card. All right. That's going to do it for today's episode of TBTL. This is fun. Tomorrow we will be joined by our dear friends, Megan Hatcher-Maze and Lindy West from the Text Me Back podcast. We have another TBTL TMB or TMBTBTL. I forget which order that goes in. Crossover program. Yes, that's right. TMBTL of the dog as Lindy wants to call it. That's how we say it. Yes, it was very fun. We recorded it. We're very, very excited to post it tomorrow. So please tune in for that. A lot of laughs. I was telling you when I got to that show, I was just like a lot of hats. Content, hats entertainment, runaway segment on the show. That's right. Taking the world by storm. Yeah, please do tune in for that. In the meantime, everybody have a great Thursday. Take care of yourselves. Please stay safe. Again, thinking of our friends in Minnesota right now and all of the folks who are about to get kind of born down on by this really cold weather. Everybody stay warm. Stay inside. And please remember, no mountain too tall. And good luck to all. Power out.