Listen Again: Julia Gets Wise with Julie Andrews

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Good thing, you can try it risk-free for 90 days right now and get $75 off with code HMDK. Visit mill.com slash HMDK. That is mill.com slash HMDK. I am a hiker. I'm somebody who likes to get out on a trail in the hills and the mountains or along the beach just out in nature. It's an activity that brings me an enormous amount of solace, of joy, peace of mind. Hiking can really change my mindset. In fact, as I'm saying this, I realize I've really got to get out there right now and move, which I'm going to do right after we record. There is something about walking and looking at the natural world and feeling and smelling the world around me. Smells are important to me too. My memories are really full of smells for real. Where I live in California, we have seasons, believe it or not. They're subtle, but we do have seasons that change and the smells and the air from the trees and all the shrubbery, the chaperrill, changes from season to season from month to month. I love that. The pitiform, the seanothus, the jasmine that blooms at night. One night you can't smell it at all, and then the next night it's almost dizzyingly sweet. The orange blossoms was just our California to me. The eucalyptus and the boxwood. Ugh. Well, I can't smell boxwood without thinking of my dad. My dear dad. These smells, you know, they wax and wane from month to month, from year to year, but they're also wonderful. And I find that if I'm having a hard time or if I'm anxious or if I'm trying to figure something out to get out of my head and to free up my brain, I really need to move in the outdoors. This to a certain extent has always been true for me, but as I've gotten older, it's only become more and more true. My favorite thing to do is to go on a hiking trip. We did that last year with family and friends. We went to the Dolomites in Italy and we hiked thousands of vertical feet and many, many miles a day. And it was super hard and it was as good as it gets. And another benefit of being out walking or hiking in the natural world beyond the self-searching and meditative stuff is that it is a great opportunity for conversation. Conversation can flow in a way that it just might not otherwise. I think maybe that's because you're both looking forward and you're not looking at each other, that it sort of allows a kind of openness and maybe a deeper form of honesty. The ritual of walking and breathing at a pace together is just conducive to a more intimate conversation. And in fact, it wasn't a hike with my college roommate and dearest friend Paula that we first discussed the idea for this very podcast and how to do it. What it might be like and how it would be devised and who it would be fun to talk to and where do we get the microphones from and what button is record, you know, all of this. And now look, here we are. We're finishing up our second season of being inspired and roused by all these mind-blowing old ladies. I mean, seriously, who to thunk at? Something happens moving through the natural world, something deep-rooted. They say that mountains are nature's cathedral and I do think that's true. You know, maybe the hills really are alive with the sound of music or with something otherworldly, something sacred and what, divine. Mary Oliver has so many great poems about moving through nature and this is one called Why I Wake Early. Hello, sun in my face. Hello you who make the morning and spread it over the fields and into the faces of the tulips and the nodding morning glories and into the windows of even the miserable and crotchety. Best preacher that ever was, dear star, that just happens to be where you are in the universe to keep us from ever darkness, to ease us with warm touching, to hold us in the great hands of light. Good morning, good morning, good morning. Watch now how I start the day in happiness, in kindness. Boy. That Mary Oliver, I'll tell you. Yeah, the hills really are alive. How fitting then that for the last episode of this season we get to talk to Julie Andrews. Hi, I'm Julie-Louis-Dreyfus and this is Wiser Than Me, the podcast where I get schooled by women who are wiser than me. I was just four years old when the Sound of Music premiered in 1965 and for those of you listening who were not alive in the 60s, we didn't have Netflix or Disney Plus or Max or whatever. We didn't even have DVDs or VHS, which meant that if you wanted to watch a movie you actually had to go to see it in the theaters. Well, lucky for me the Sound of Music was basically always playing when I was growing up which meant I got to go to the theater and see it as much as I wanted to, which was a lot. I simply couldn't get enough. I've seen it more than I've seen any other movie. I mean I've seen it dozens of times. I saw it last week for God's sakes. Most people have to think really hard for a minute to come up with their favorite movie, but not me, Sound of Music, that's it. And it's been since I can remember. Why do I love it so much? Well, for starters it was the soundtrack of my childhood. So yeah, it is a little hard for me to believe today's conversation is even happening because today we get to talk to the woman behind that incredible voice and performance. I mean, are we lucky or what? Actually, are we lucky or what is the motto our guest lives by? According to her daughter, she'll even say it under the worst of circumstances like in the middle of a thunderstorm when the power goes out. But a whole lot more than luck has shaped this glorious woman's incomparable career. She's been working professionally since she was just 10 years old, performing in a vaudeville act with her family, singing all over England, even performing at age 13 for King George VI and the future Queen Elizabeth. She originated the leading roles in the Broadway productions of My Fair Lady and Camelot, the latter of which put her in front of the eyes of Walt Disney himself, who cast her in the iconic role of Mary Poppins. And off she went to do all these other incredible films, SOB, Victor Victoria, the Americanization of Emily, and of course, there's the sound of music. And lucky for us, she's still working today. She's a prolific author who's written dozens of children's books with her daughter Emma and continues to star in some of the most beloved family films in history like Princess Diaries and Shrek. You'll even hear her voice as Lady Whistledown in Bridgerton on Netflix. So I am a little overcome that today I'll be talking to the Academy Award-winning Emmy-winning, Grammy-winning, BAFTA-winning, Songstress herself, a true English rose, the star of my favorite movie, A Woman Who Is So Much Wiser Than Me, Dame Julie Andrews. Hi, Julie. Hello, my dear. How are you? I'm so good. I'm so good. I'm very happy to meet you, my dear. Oh, I'm so happy to meet you, too. I've never had as good an introduction as that. Thank you so much, Julia. A cellone, a name that is actually my name, too. I was born and prisoned Julia. And it was changed to Julie when my mother remarried Ted Andrews. And Julia Andrews didn't roll off the tongue as well as Julie. Yes. So they changed it. And I didn't know much about it at the time. But do people call you Julia, ever? No, only maybe great aunts and people like that. Yes. But mostly, no, I'm Julie and have been for a long, long time. Well, it suits you. Are you at home? I am at home. And where is that? I'm in Santa Barbara, California. Oh, no. Yes. Then you know my chum Carol very well. Yes, you know my chum Carol very well. We've become friends, as a matter of fact. She's adorable and is such a great friend. Oh, well, we'll talk about that. So Julie, are you comfortable if I ask your real age? Yeah, I don't mind at all. I believe 88. And how old do you feel? Well, I probably feel like in my 50s, honest to God, as long as the brain holds out, I'm doing OK, you know, and I don't feel bad at all. No. What is the best part of being your age, Julie? I don't know. There are times when it's a nuisance and I want to do, well, I want to do more and I want to exercise more and all of those things. But with the accompanying sort of aches and pains, I bitch a lot about it. But I actually, the best part is, to a certain extent, people leave me alone and that I rather like. Because otherwise, but I mean, I'm being slightly facetious. No, that's fine. You can just let it all hang out. I love it. Thank you. Thank you. But wait a minute. When you say they leave you alone, what does that actually in fact mean? Because of your age? What does that mean? No, it's because I don't do as much. I don't go out as much and I love being home. And so life is quieter these days. I kind of enjoy that pulling back a little bit now. And of course, I've got a million thoughts and ideas and hope that I can keep going for a great deal longer. But who knows? And I'm just pleased that I've arrived here. Oh, I'm so pleased you've arrived here too. You know, the, the, the, when we were putting together a wish list to have these conversations with various people, you were absolutely at the top of that wish list. So I wanted to just take a breath and say thank you again for being here today because I admired you my entire life. Well, I'm thrilled to have been asked, Julia, and it's a lovely medium to, to be on and to see your face and you're seeing mine. And yet here we are in our privately in our homes. Yes, exactly. Yeah. Are we lucky or what? That's exactly right. Now, listen, I was so pleased, Julie, to discover that you love cursing. You're a cursor. Am I right? Oh, yeah. Yeah, you're very body. Like free. Yeah. And I honestly, I myself, I mean, I feel to a certain extent that I've kind of built half of my career on that. And I even cursed once in front of Elmo on Sesame Street back in the day. Do you have a favorite curse word? No, not really. I mean, on an average every day, there's a couple of them, SHITs that pop in, but more Oh, God, what favorite curse word? My mother had a beautiful curse word because she was, she was much bordier and alive than I was or am. But because of the times and because she was raised, as they say in Cockney, she was brung up and proper. She would say, Oh, Pee Poe bum draws, meaning knickers. So Pee obviously, Poe meaning the commode and bum being your backside and draws being your knickers. So it resonated. I don't say it. I just remember it vividly and I would laugh always. That's hilarious. And what's particularly funny is that it seems so benign to me. Yeah, it does to me. Right? Yeah. But I mean, I'm not, I don't go into it much. I don't think I curse as much as everybody else thinks I do and maybe because it's Mary Poppins uttering whatever I utter and I go at it whenever I need to. But I think that's a surprise really. Yes. I think so because you've played so many so-called good girl characters. What's your go-to word, Julie? Oh, well, come on, Julie, it's fuck. Yeah. Well, I do have some of this. I guess mostly it should, isn't it, with me? You're not that bad. You're not like me. No, stop. No, no, it's true. I'm very bad. And you know, I did a show called Veep and there was a lot, it was very, very show. But you know, of course, the Brits use certain words that Americans are taken aback by. You know the ones I'm talking about. I know they do. Yeah. Yeah. So I won't, I think I won't utter those words today, but you know the ones I'm talking about for female anatomy and I, it really became a part of my vocabulary after a couple of years in their presence, I have to say. Yeah. Well, that's very useful sometimes. I really do think, yeah. Yeah, I think it is too. But you know, it's funny that you say that, I think that maybe you just utter a shit and people are probably, maybe it takes their breath away because of course, all the characters you play were very sort of polyanotypes who serve good girls. Yeah. What ways do you think that good girl image has served you or has gotten in your way, if you were going to say? That's a good question. I think to the extent that I began to be typecast for my image and it's so far from the truth. I mean, I'm a much, I know I'm a much more bawdy broad as they used to say than Mary Poppins or whatever, but it's now of no consequence because I've done enough that's different. Yes, indeed. And I think enough people know, know me that I'm not that prim and proper, of course I'm not. No, of course. Although my voice sometimes gets in the way or gives me away, one of the two. Yeah, exactly. And I mean, are you a rebel? Are you a nonconformist, you, Julie Andrews? Oh, I hope so. I do. Yeah, I am, I think, but not to the extent. I mean, as Eliza Doolittle used to say, oh, a good girl I am. And I kind of know when to be a rebel and when not to be. I like to be a family when working. I'm sure you do too, Julia. It's so lovely to have great collaborators and great people around you and all of that. And when you find them, you must cling to them, don't you think? I think so. Yes, I do. I think you can keep them in your orbit. Yes. For real. Yeah, because it's very, very good. And as you have pointed out on one or two podcasts, I think now that laughter is, yeah, obviously phenomenal, but it's such a joy and it frees you up so much. And if you can be really healthily, anything from bawdy to laughing your head off or weeping with laughter, that's where I land, I think. Yeah, that's the best possible place to be, isn't it? I mean, all sorts of endorphins, I think, are released. I mean, it's actually a physical reality that laughing is a release. It's a release and it's good physically for the body. It is good. And I think weeping too is, but sometimes when the two get combined, I get helpless. I mean, I laugh so hard and I weep so much at the idiocy of what I'm hearing. Really. But of course, I was married for 43 years to Blake. Yeah. Blake Edwards. And if you don't laugh with that man, then you better get out of the room. He made me laugh so hard sometimes. Oh, I'm sure. And I think that it's partially what held our marriage together, the great laughter. We'll get more wisdom from Julie Anders after this super quick break. Stay tuned. Hey, Prime members. Did you know you can listen to Wiser Than Me, Ad Free on Amazon Music? Download the Amazon Music app today to start listening ad free. If you're like the wise women on this podcast, you are really, really busy. 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I want to talk about the idea of not showing off and the idea of humility and being humble. Do you think that there's an expectation of humility that can impact a woman's ability to assert themselves or negotiate for themselves? Is that ... I'm not sure about that part of it. I think that my mom, who was very much bordier and more alive than I seem to be, but she used to say, there's always somebody around that can do it better than you. So do good things and be grateful because there are so many people that have talent but don't get the brakes. And that's, I think, where I land mostly. And it's all a learning experience. I'm still learning. I was interested that you said that you hid your Oscar for Mary Poppins in the attic for a while. And I was wondering, did you feel you didn't deserve it? Probably. Yes, I think that's true. I didn't want to show off. I was very new to this lovely craft that we're all in in terms of movies and things. And also, I did have a hunch, maybe, that perhaps it was given in lieu of not getting the role of Eliza in the movie of My Fair Lady. And I had been passed up for that and I understood it perfectly well. But of course, it made me sad that I couldn't have a good crack at it on film, though I'd never done a movie before when I made Mary Poppins. So thank goodness Walt saw something that was appropriate for Mary. And I didn't mind not doing My Fair Lady, but I wish I'd had a chance of some kind to put it down on record. I did do excerpts on television and on different shows, but it would have been fun and interesting to see what became of Eliza Doolittle when, if I had been in, you know, my job was in the show for about three and a half years. So you felt like to a certain extent you owned it. You felt the character you were playing. You gave your heart and soul to it. Well, it took me a long time to get there. But I mean, I had a long time to get there. And yeah, it was something like that. But I really felt that in a way that the Academy was generous enough to honor me for Poppins, because in a way it was saying you should have got the other one or something like that. There was so much talk about it at the time. So I kind of hid the Oscar away. I didn't want to show off. I didn't want to parade it in my office or anything like that. But I hope it's out of the attic. Is it? Oh yeah, it is. Yes. I was absolutely thrilled. And my mother was terribly thrilled. But I think I was very grateful to it. It was a beautiful beginning and I couldn't have been more welcomed. Your acceptance speech, by the way, is divine. Oh, you know how to spoil a girl. Yeah. Right. Yeah. And Americans do. I didn't mean to say you Americans, but yeah, that's right. But I felt that. They really do. So, by the way, your memoir is so beautiful. Oh, thanks. It's really beautiful. You've done your homework, my God. Yes. Well, we take this seriously. I mean, you take the time to talk to us. We want to take the time to come at you with, you know, thoughtful stuff based on what you've done. Thank you. But in your memoir, you said something that struck me that I thought was interesting. You describe your childhood self as being bossy. Oh, that's easy. Tell me, what ways were you bossy? Well, I had three brothers and I was the eldest child. So of course they thought me bossy. Because my parents were in showbiz and traveled a lot and were away a lot, I usually ended up being the head honcho in the family when they were away because I was the eldest. And so I think bossy was, I was given that name by then probably more than anybody else. But yeah, I can be a bit bossy. But only, you know, we get a reputation for that and yet it's only in search of something being as good as it possibly can. Yes, indeed. And it's not being bossy. Yes. I'm sure you feel that way. I do. I think I'm probably very bossy. In fact, I'm sure of it. I'm sure that my husband would say. You don't look very bossy. I can be very tough. How long have you been married? I've been married for, wait, 36 years. 37 actually coming up. Yeah. So quite a while. Quite an achievement too. Yes, it is. Yeah, it is. I'm proud, although I also am like, oh my God, that's so long. It's like... Yeah, but in a way, you go through so many phases in a marriage. Boy, I'll say, yeah. You know, there's physical love and adoration and admiration and then there comes the kind of understanding love and then the tolerant love and the understanding of your mate more. And it just... There's so many phases that one goes through, I feel. And I don't know how Blake and I managed it, but we did. And I also admired him very much. And as I say, he made me laugh. And anybody that does that is great in my book. Is a keeper. But Julie, you had a pretty chaotic upbringing with your family battling poverty and alcoholism. Well, you have to remember, Julia, I didn't know anything else. It's what was handed to me. And it became... I became so incredibly fortunate. I thank God for the gift of singing and the singing voice. I had a phenomenal teacher who was with me until she passed away. And I had such unbelievable help that I think age is about passing on, teaching what you know in a gentle way. Or I don't think it's exactly setting an example, but I'd love to and hope to do one of those podcasts that are a class, a master class. And I'm talking about that because I thought in terms of performing and particularly with lyrics and using them well and so on, there's a number of wonderful ways to do that. And I'd love to pass that on to young singers who are very talented, but don't have that extra bullet in their gun if you know what I'm saying. What is that extra bullet, Julie? Is it about absorbing the lyrics and acting them? Well, every song is... I mean, I can't sing a song that doesn't have good lyrics and that sounds very stupid. But for instance, and remember this, I don't mean to put it down, it's a pretty melody, but remember feelings? Oh, whoa, whoa, feelings. Well, I couldn't do that song. I wasn't good at doing the oh, whoa, whoa's and things like that. I had to find a way to delve into the song and find out what it meant. And I once couldn't sing a song. It was a blues song called Come Rain or Come Shine, which I'm sure you know. And which I adore. It's Harold Arlen and I'm going to love you like nobody's loved to do Come Rain or Come Shine. And my tutor one day said, I said, it's not my kind of song. I don't sing sort of bluesy or that kind of deep song. And she said, make it about the theater. Now think of the lyrics and oh my God, it changed my life. Isn't that wonderful of her? And so, wow. I said, oh, and so I'm going to be true if you let me come rain or come shine in or the way out of the money, but I'm with you always. I mean, it couldn't be more appropriate to being in this wonderful business. And I know you'll get exactly what I mean. So it's that kind of thing. What you mean. And if you can find your way into a song, if it's something else, but you make it a song about how you feel about your husband when he's standing at the dresser after his shower or something like that, it brings into it. If you make that, if you take it on and adopt that attitude, it's very, very helpful. Well, it's an acting exercise is really what you're describing. Because it's all about the, I'm big on lyrics. I've directed a few things which I've loved doing and to see young people and talented people suddenly grasp that if you just emphasize that word or think about it, let's go and do that again and so on. It can be enormously helpful and was to me over the years. It's all learning and you never stop. Well, I'm jumping around here because since we're talking about lyrics recently, just a couple of days ago, I watched Sound of Music for the 3,000th time, happily so. And I was so struck because first of all, my favorite things, the lyrics for that tune. They're great, aren't they? Yes. And what I was so struck by was the lyrics are like a basis for a gratitude practice, almost like cognitive behavioral therapy. I simply remember my favorite things and then I don't feel so bad. But also picking your favorite things or remembering them as you sing. Yeah, identifying them. All of that. Yes. Mind you, when I did that, and I don't mean to cop out, but that was my second movie. And so I didn't know as much about it as I do now and I wish that I'd known some of the things I know now. But except Julie, in that performance that you gave, I hear what you're saying that perhaps you weren't thinking of it quite like that then, but your instinct when you performed that song and how you absorbed it conveyed that regardless. It really did. Our music director, Saul Chaplin, a very lovely guy who worked hand in glove with Robert Wise, our director, he said, why don't we try reciting the first two lines, you know, raindrops on roses. Oh, and then the orchestra comes in. And I was so grateful to him because it was exactly what I thought should be done. But he said, go with it. And the orchestrator went with it and it sort of brought the song from dialogue into music in a lovely way. Yes, it was seamless, absolutely seamless. And the same, by the way, is true, not to harp too much on this, but in the sound of music, the themes of nature, actually, the themes of nature throughout the entire film are. That's very much where Oscar Hammerstein was. I mean, he and all his songs have birds and nature brought into them. I mean, to be truthful, no, it's not very, it's churlish of me. One of the lyrics that I couldn't wrap my head around, the only one in the entire film was like a lark who is learning to pray. And that was a little. And so I rushed through it as quickly as I can and got on to the next line or the next stanza because I don't know how to say that. But let me ask you a question. Is that because it didn't make sense to you? Yes, yes, because I thought it was a bit sort of, you know, artsy fartsy. And but Oscar loved to write like that and and set the pattern for that and trained Sondheim and all those brilliant composers. And Sondheim ran with that, but just came up with such a stringent lyrics that he is, I think, my almost one of my favorite lyricists. He is my favorite lyricist. Forget about it. He is. He's absolutely incredible. I think that is so amazing that that one phrase. That's the one I got stuck on. You got stuck on it and you blew past it and that's good. And it's about the natural world, that tune. It's about the value of being in nature, you know, what the Japanese often call forest bathing, again, sort of a practice. Do they really? I've never heard that. Yes, isn't it marvelous? No, that's wonderful. Yeah, I get it. This whole notion of being out in the wilderness, it's a forest bath and that we all must do it. That tune absolutely speaks to that. And I know that your life in the natural world, you have a huge bond with Switzerland and I do. And also my garden and what I put in my garden and I can't wait for spring this year because with all this rain, it's going to look beautiful. My daffodils will come out and my blue wells will come out and I try to not in an obsessive way, but I like to kind of plan a succession of things that I can look forward to blossoming and so on. Love all that. Julie, we have that in common because I do the same. I have my daffodils are coming up now. My bluebells. Oh, yes. And I have daffodils in Narcissus. And then when they peter out, my bluebells will come up. And it's a blue world. And when the lovely. I'm so pleased. That's so special. I'm glad we have that in common. What what? Tell me about your life in Switzerland. How much time do you spend there and what do you do when you're there? I'm dying to know. Well, Blake and I have had a chalet there all for six years, maybe now, just after we first met. We took a vacation with our kids, not just after, but, you know, when we really be a team and beginning to be a family. And we fell in love with this beautiful place called Stard in Switzerland. And the beauty of it is stunning. I mean, stunning. And you talk about wildflowers, blooming and things like that. My dad was a great lover also of nature. And so my real dad, that is, or the man I thought was my real dad. But he he taught me so much about tree. He could out he could see the outline of a tree in winter and know what it was, and I could not do that. And I've been trying ever since and can't. He said, oh, that's a lime tree or that's a such and such tree. But it didn't have a blossom on it, you know. So you said the man that you thought was your real dad. So you're a real dad. Oh, no, my mom, when I was about 14, said to me, we'd gone to some kind of event and a man sat and talked to me for quite a while. And obviously it had been planned. And on the way home, she said, did you like him? And I said, yeah, OK, it struck me as odd that he spent as much time on me at this odd party. And she said, well, he was your dad, in fact, Julie. And I could feel this freight train coming at me. But in fact, it all worked out pretty well because it was nothing I could do about it. And he always sent me a loving Christmas card, but didn't interfere at my request because I didn't know whether the man I thought was my dad knew after he passed away, it transpires that he did. And it didn't make any difference. And I wish we he and I could have talked about it more. But I loved him so much for that. He was a darling and he was he absolutely was a countryman. And the man I thought was my real dad. And I had vacations with him and all of that because in truth, he was my dad, he raised me. You know, the man that I thought was my dad. Yeah, I mean, whenever I could see him, I did. And what would that conversation have been like? Had you been able to talk to him? Do you think? Well, I don't know. I just know that I think it would have made a even more more understand on my part, even more love for him. Once I found out my love knew no bounds because he was so generous and had no compunction in taking me on and was so proud of me and never, ever let me feel that I wasn't his daughter. And since I didn't know, he was my dad and he did raise me. So truthfully, that's where I arrived, eventually. But the man that raised me, he was a lovely nature man. And he, too, would drive me to certain places in the country where the blue bells were rampant and and oddly enough, like a Lark was learning to pray, he took me up a hill near where he used to live in Surrey, the county of Surrey in England. And he said one night he collected me from the theater, walked me down to spend a weekend with him. And he said, I want you to hear something. And he got me out of the car at the crest of the hill and said and he took me to a five bar gate, a big country gate and said, now listen, and Nightingale's all over the south downs were singing. And you can imagine how magical that was. And that's the kind of nature man he he was. And he taught me, I think my love of books, my love of writing, you know, seventy six, this man that I thought was my dad went back to college and got a degree in German at seventy six. I mean, he was an amazing man. He said, well, I got to do something. I got to use my brain and he was a lot and loved poetry. He got a degree in German, you said. Speaking German, speaking German. So he took on a new language at seventy six. That's extraordinary. It's extraordinary. Yeah, that's right. It's time for a quick break. But don't worry, there's more with Julie Andrews and just a bit. Yeah. Spring invites a reset. Windows open, shelves cleared, only what's useful and well made, Captain rotation. Closets can follow the same rule. Fewer pieces, better pieces, nothing wasteful. If it's not versatile, thoughtfully constructed and built to last, it doesn't deserve the hangar. That's where Quince stands out. 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Right now, go to quince.com slash wiser for free shipping and 365 day returns. That's a full year to wear it and love it and you will. Now available in Canada too. Don't keep settling for clothes that don't last. Go to quince.com slash wiser for free shipping and 365 day returns. Quince.com slash wiser. So I want to talk about friendship. We had Carol Burnett on this podcast. I heard her. I heard her and I love her so much. Isn't she divine? Yes, she is and honest and real and unbelievably talented. I mean, I admire her so much. I do too. And she makes me better and which is odd. She brings out the worst in me, the most bawdy in me. I do not know why, but she does and we laugh a lot. Well, what is it about her that you connected with when you when you first met? We're very similar in some ways. She had a grandma that raised her parents that were alcoholics, as I did. And one way or another, we in our own countries, you know, I'm from England. She's from here. We bonded tremendously straight away. We it was as if two ladies discovered that they lived on the same block and they hadn't ever been introduced. But once they were, it was we bonded straight away. And every 10 years, as you probably know, we managed to get a special made together. And each special became first of all, it was like, who are you dating? And, you know, are you going to get married and so on? Then it was about parent-teacher conferences and having to get the kids from school. And then eventually by the time of the third or whatever outing that we had together on film or tape, it was like, do you take Mademoiselle and stuff like that? And it and we don't see each other as much as I wish we did because she's on one end of the country and now I'm out here on the East Coast. But it doesn't matter. It doesn't matter where we are, we just pick up where we left off. It's so easy. Yes, that's a true friendship. And the very first one we did together, which was Julie and Carol at Carnegie Hall, I'll never forget that she was the one that gave me the strength and the courage. And we before we taped, which was twice, we taped one big rehearsal and then the big night. And I remember we made an entrance. She on one side of the stage and I was on the other side. And we looked at each other across the stage. We were about to make that first entrance. And we were doing thumbs up and blowing kisses. But it was because I could see her across from me and I felt her strength. And I also knew she knew mine. And so you had each other's backs. Yeah, we were there and we weren't going to pull rank and we weren't going to be foolish. I hope well foolish in the right way. Of course. Yeah. And you must have met then doing theater in New York, because she was probably doing what, mattress or whatever? Well, yes, it probably was. I met her during Camelot when I was there. And yes, she was. And I first of all did one of her shows, which was the Gary Moore show that she was on. That's right. And then she she did once upon a mattress. I happily was able to see that because her day off was, I guess, my day off. Yeah. And so my manager at the time said, you two have to meet. You'll adore each other, which is quite often the kiss of death. Because you get imagine. They don't know what they're talking about. But in this case, it was a great good fortune. Magical. And nobody else got a word in each ways. And so you've stayed connected all these years. It's quite remarkable. All these years. I wonder, is there any advice you might have to give to people who are listening to this, to younger people about cultivating and maintaining friendships, which I think personally are one of the big keys to longevity and wellness. Well, why would anybody pull rank when your friends are so loyal and talented and smart and how lovely that you can all bond and either work together or appreciate each other in some way? I don't know. I just think it's great. And all I just about love everybody that I have worked with. And actually can't remember anybody that ticked me off in in such a way that I wasn't happy. And that is such a good fortune, I think. Oh, yeah, it certainly is. Bravo to both of you. Thank you. It's fabulous. OK, so let's let's switch gears for a second. I wanted to talk to you about your voice. You started having trouble with it in 1997. I think you had nodules on your vocal cords. Julie, is that right? How should I explain it? No, it wasn't. That was what was so painful to comprehend. Eventually it wasn't that at all. How can I explain it well enough when you? If you hop on one knee long enough and sound stupid, when you hop on one leg long enough, that leg will buckle and you will get a kind of striation in the limb that is just a bit. It's muscle and oh, there's another word I'm looking for. Like a stress fracture or a tear. Or like tissue that that becomes a little bit more hardened because you've been using it so much. But it did lead. Think of this. It did lead to my saying, I've got to do I mean a year of waiting and depression and all those kind of things. But it led to my finding a new life, which is the one with my daughter and writing. I thought I have to do something and be good for something or good at begin to be good at something. And that's what came out of it. And I've gotten over it. I think I would have stopped singing pretty quickly anyway, because I was getting that much older. And I would have been sixty five or something when I finally began writing with my Emma. And it's been such a joy. This part of my life, this latter part of my life that I have gotten over it. It was a bad period, but and I you can imagine I adore music and I love classical music and all of those things. But can you talk a little bit about the experience? I mean, you had surgery and did you know after it that something had changed for you, that something had had shifted for you? Yeah, absolutely. Yeah, it wouldn't recover. It wouldn't recover. And I eventually found an absolutely superb vocal, not coach, but doctor and he cleared anything up that he could, which is why I'm able to speak and I'm not a horse. And I can't sing now, though. That's the thing. And I miss it very, very, very much. And so so let's talk about sort of the process of making the adjustment to this, Julie, because I think, you know, a lot of people Well, frankly, people have lost in their lives of varying degrees, right? Oh, they do. And far worse than well, but but yours was a radical loss, I would say. And, you know, I had I had breast cancer diagnosis, I don't seven years ago now. And I had to go through that. Thank you. But I'm fine. But it was again, it's a lot. Huge, huge, a huge learning curve. I would think, yeah. Yeah, it's it's your body that you know so fundamentally and that you rely on so completely. Yes, I understand that very, very well. I do. You understand it. And it's really there's a shift that happens emotionally and intellectually. But you know, what I learned is that I was still Julie. I couldn't do that craft. And yours you've discovered. Look at the strengths. You've had since then and what the opportunities and so on. That wasn't all that was Julia. Right. So so what advice would you say to those who are trying to, you know, get back up, get past something? Yeah, what do you think? I'm not very good at answering that question because I don't have it fully in my head. But I think it's to do with find what you love, keep doing something because women of my age can keep being useful. That's really a can keep giving pleasure. And I wish that I could find a voice again. But I found it in my daughter Emma when I bemoaned my fate one day and was getting a bit teary. She said, mum, you've just found a different way to use your voice. Exactly. And that the penny dropped in my brain and I became a lot more content. And now my whole focus is on communicating, teaching, writing and helping the arts as much as I can and combining them in some way, which is lovely. Oh, yes, it's lovely. So you met your second husband Blake Edwards in the parking lot of your therapist's office. Is that right? No, but meeting him was on Sunset Boulevard. And I don't you probably know that there's that huge medium across Sunset. And you can go across that. And I had to park in the middle of the medium because it had cars going both ways and cars zooming down Sunset Boulevard. So I pulled up and waited for the traffic to clear and a Rolls Royce on the other side pulled up. And I looked over and smiled at the very handsome man, not in any way thinking anything, but just smiled because it happened again. And then it happened again. And finally, the window of the Rolls another day was wound down and Blake said, hello, I'm Blake Edwards, you're Julie. And I said, yes, what an honour and thrill to meet you. He said, are you coming? Are you going to where I just came from? And that was analysis. My analyst. And so we got to talking and then not too many weeks later, I received a call and asked if he could come by. He asked if he could come by and run by an idea that he had. And that was the first movie we ever made together that was finally made. And it was a flop. Was that Darling Lily? That was Darling Lily, a huge flop. And how we ever stayed together after that, I don't know. But we did. And then, of course, eventually married several years later. Oh, that's so lovely. What about him directing you? What was that like since you were, you know, first boyfriend and girlfriend and then a married couple? I know. What about him? Did you like it? Did you like him as a director when he directed you? Oh, I liked him very much. And I felt very, very safe because he was a good director and didn't waste time playing director. He knew his shots. He knew what he wanted and was very knowledgeable about film and all of those things. I couldn't feel more safe. Oh, that's nice. And he had, you know, six ideas a week and would want to get all of them done. And I would think, oh, yeah, we'll see about that. And then they mostly all came to pass. And when I started writing, he was my biggest. He encouraged the most of anybody and said, darling, it's what I thought of an idea and thought he might like it. And he said, do it. Just keep the pages piling up. And you have said that he had a depressive personality, right? Yes, he did. And how did you navigate that as a couple and as his wife? By learning more and more about how to deal with it and with the help of good therapy and things like that. And I did know when he would obviously, because he was a depressive at times, it would have a peak and then it would disappear. He loved working. He loved writing. So when he was doing that, he was usually pretty great. I see. But it was other times and he was. He was very sad at times and knowing his background, I'm not surprised. Have you struggled with depression, Julie? Yes, but not, not like, I mean, occasionally. No, I mean, I was depressed when I did have my surgery, very depressed. But then happily time and learning and beginning to do something else came along. And that was very good for me. Oh, I bet. So not only are you a grandmother, you are a great grandmother, right? Yes, I am. Yeah. OK, so you're the first great grandmother we've had on this show. So I'm very excited about that. How would you, how would you characterize the difference between being a grandmother and then a great grandmother? Is there, how do you distinguish those relationships? A great grandmother is a tiny bit more removed than being a grandma because it's the generation's kind of, well, children get raised differently at times and so on. But in terms of the blessing that they all are and how sweet they all are, especially the babies, I don't care whether it's a grandchild or a great grandchild, it could be a great, great if I get so lucky. But I have five kids of my own. Yes. And then I have like 10 grandchildren. Goodness. And then they have like three or four. I don't know if there are any more hanging around or waiting in the wings. As we say. But they're so adorable when they're little, too. And Julie, what do they call you? Granny Jules. Oh, that's J-O-O-L-S. I love it. Mostly I'm known as Granny Jules. Granny Jules is lovely. People call me Jules. So they call you Jules. Yes. Yeah. How do you spell your Jules? J-U-L-E-S. Yeah, I've been that and now I'm double L-O-S. Yeah. Just I don't know why, but it seemed easier. Yeah, it does. OK, Jules, double O-L-S. At the end of these conversations, I always ask a couple of quick questions. Well, for sure. This has been such a delight to talk to you. It's just been like a dream. OK, so here's the first question. Is there something you'd go back and tell yourself when you were 21? Oh, well, it's something that I get asked a lot in terms of what advice do you have for younger people? And I think what I try to convey to everybody is finally learning the pleasure of singing and giving, giving it back to others. I used to do it by rote. I was in my parents' Vortable Act, and then I went out on my own for years. But it was all because I had to and we needed the money. And I would come on stage and kind of class my hands and sing my big aria and so on. But when I learned that I could give people pleasure and really mean that I did, that realized that they come to the theatre paying good money to see something and that they go away, hopefully feeling happier and more enlightened, let's say. It's it's something I learned when I was about oh, 24, I think something like that. And I would say if you're passionate, do your homework to all the young people trying, because if you don't, you won't have as many chances, you won't be as good. And so it's all about doing your homework and then giving it and giving the pleasure of it. And do you is there something that you would like me to know about aging from where you sit right now? Well, yes, I tell me. Mostly I say aging sucked, but. But it but it doesn't really. And since there's no alternative, why bitch so much about it and try to find out what I can still do and what I love to do and what gives me pleasure and so on. I see. Yeah. And what are you looking forward to? What's something you're looking forward to? And directing other things, passing on more books if I can, because I do love doing them. I'm still learning about writing, but as long as people like what's coming out, I will continue. And I hope to get more and more confident and better, you know. But I mean, I would love to direct more, too. So before we say goodbye, I want to tell you that last year I took a trip with actually my very friend, Paula, who produces this podcast with me, my friend from college. Yeah. And we went hiking in the Dolomites. And yes. And so and the wildflowers were bananas. Exquisite, I can imagine. And of course, what did we see when we got to high altitudes? We saw Edelweiss. That's right. And so I wanted to show you the picture of the Edelweiss. And we took how lovely isn't that lovely? Yes. And every time I have to say it was such every time we would see one, I would scream, Edelweiss, Edelweiss. It's one of my favorite songs, by the way, from the sound of music. That and my favorite things. But Edelweiss is about anyone's hometown and beloved home or whatever. And I used to finish my my variety act with that. And with a full orchestra, it is almost enough to render me very tearful at times, because it's very pretty. It's very pretty. It's very it's a tender song. Well, I have no trouble bringing back happy memories or warm feelings or and to hear the orchestrations. I love singing with an orchestra. It's like the one thing I'd love to end with this. When you love what you do and when you sing with a symphony orchestra, I tell you, it's like my singing teacher used to say, singing with a symphony orchestra is like being lifted up in the most comfortable armchair you could sit in and being carried over the orchestra. And of course, it stimulates you to sing better, to try harder. And I loved making albums and things like that very much. So what joy. It's not a lovely analogy of how all of that turns you on to be better than you ever thought you maybe better than you ever thought you could. Yeah, it's absolutely gorgeous. And it's a great metaphor, too, for a connection because there you are with other musicians who are lifting you up. You no doubt are lifting them up as well. And so they're I don't know about that. But no, I guarantee it. If they tap their stands at the end of the recording or whatever, it's a great accolade. But the point being that connection is everything. Don't you think, Julie? Yes, I do. Well, I want to thank you for speaking with us today. This was a treasure. It was a lovely interview, Julia. It was nice talking about all the things or all my favorite things, as they say. Yeah, it really was. And I wish you nothing but happiness and health and laughter. Thank you. That's what's going to do it, isn't it? Yeah, it is. I think so. I hope we meet again soon, Julia. I do, too, Julia. I hope we are paths cross. I'm I just I give you my love. If somebody that loves Carol as much as I do and you do, we're all going to meet again. We're going to meet again. I'm going to text her after we finish and I'm going to tell her I just spoke with you. And so we'll give her my love. I will give my job. My love. I will indeed. OK, well, she's just as delightful as I dream she'd be. God, what a perfect way to end season two. My mom is going to freak out when I tell her about this. OK, I got to get her on a zoom call. Hi, mommy. Hi, love. Hi. So I just spoke to Julie Andrews. If you can even believe that I'm telling you that. Oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, my God. Julie Andrews, like part of our DNA. Yeah, for real, because she was such a huge part of our family and our childhood, don't you think? And in a kind of perfect way, you know, she was sort of a perfect gift to me. Perfect gifted performer. Yeah, absolutely. She looked perfect. She spoke perfectly and she sang perfectly. Well, one of the stories I grew up with was Mary Poppins. And my friend, Judy A, used to read all the Mary Poppins books and then she would tell me about them. So I had in my image of this Mary Poppins, it was always sort of around in the trees and so forth. And she was a perfect Mary Poppins. Yeah, she really hit that one out of the park. So, you know, speaking of perfection, she, I don't know if you know this, but she had a lot of vocal trouble. And actually it was very hard for her to talk about it for multiple reasons, but her singing voice is highly compromised, which is a great tragedy, really. And she has overcome this, which is beautiful. I mean, she has found her way through that with the help of her daughter and therapy and she's become a writer, which has given her a new voice, in fact, which is wonderful. But it really did, it made me think about you because when I was 18, you got an acoustic neuroma, which is a benign tumor, but it was in your ear, deep within your ear. It was on the brain stem. So I had this, I had the test after test after test and finally it was determined that I had a neuroma on my right, my right brain stem. And I went from, you know, playing tennis and just doing my life. And all of a sudden this happened. And I remember that you drove me down to the hospital and your sisters were in the car. And when I got out of the car, daddy was going to meet me in the hospital. And when I got out of the car, I remember just a flash for a moment, I thought to myself, I may never see my girls again. Because in the olden days, that is to say 20 years before acoustic neuromas could kill people because the surgery was so intricate. And so I faced that. So I went into the surgery and then came out of the surgery. And then as I was recovering, I very slowly began to comprehend that I was deaf in my right ear. Can you talk about that transition and what that was like for you, mummy? You know, the thing about it is that it's so much can happen in life, which is that you are going along and you're whole. And you don't even think about your hearing or your taste or your vision because everything works. All I can say is that it equipped me to know that these wonderful things that we have, that we take for granted that we have, which are human bodies, that in a flash, you can be taken. And then I think about Julie Andrews because it didn't take away my life force. Although it did throw me into writing in a certain way. I never quite understood exactly what that process has been in me. But I did find, I mean, I'm so happy that she found writing. And I'm so happy that I found writing as a way of going beyond loss. Or going into a new life. And I always loved literature, but it never occurred to me to make it. And the making of it, I think really it thrust me into making. And in a way, I don't think I would have otherwise, I think I would have continued to just receive literature. That is amazing. And I hadn't considered the connection between your hearing loss and then your sort of fervor writing and how it sort of took hold for you. And for our listeners, just in case you're interested, my mother's written two books of poetry. Mom, what are the names of the two books of poetry? The Gatherer is the first. And the Unlocatable Source is the second. Yes. Unlocatable Source, that's as interesting in view of what we're talking about. Because in a way, I wouldn't have known then that maybe a loss had led me toward importance of expression. I mean, and I know Julie Andrews' work, she is a wonderful writer, and she's written with her daughter too, which is a wonderful thing. And it makes me feel so good to think that I'm like, in some way like her, or I've found the same path. Yes. And in some way, she's like you. And that's really nice. I think that that is a perfect way to end this particular season of Why Is For The Me. This is the end of season two, mom, if you can believe it. Oh, honey, season two. You believe? Season two. No. Well, I have to say something. My friends who are older women have appreciated and enjoyed what you're doing on this, this so much. And it is so important to have older women listen to, and maybe even for them to begin to appreciate who they are and what they've done. Because some telling your story, it's like you have a new appreciation of it. So even they're telling it, I think is a wonderful thing for women to do. Me too. I think so too. So there you go, mommy. There you go, honey. Well, listen, you're a lot wiser than me. No, ma, you're wiser than me. Well, it works both ways. It works both ways. Isn't that beautiful? Yes, it's a duble. I love you, mommy. I love you, honey. Talk to you later. Okay. Bye-bye. There's more wiser than me with Lemonada Premium. Subscribers get exclusive access to bonus content from each episode of the show. Subscribe now in Apple Podcasts. Make sure you're following Wiser Than Me on social media. We're on Instagram and TikTok at Wiser Than Me. And we're on Facebook at Wiser Than Me Podcast. Wiser Than Me is a production of Lemonada Media created and hosted by me, Julia Louis-Dreyfus. This show is produced by Chrissy Pease, Jamila Zara Williams, Alex McCohen, and Oja Lopez. Brad Hall is a consulting producer. Rachel Neal is VP of New Content and our SVP of Weekly Content and Production is Steve Nelson. Executive producers are Paula Kaplan, Stephanie Whittles-Wax, Jessica Cordova-Cramer, and me. The show is mixed by Johnny Vince Evans with engineering help from James Sparber. And our music was written by Henry Hall, who you can also find on Spotify or wherever you listen to your music. Special thanks to Will Schlagel and of course my mother, Judy Bowles. Well, we've had a great run, dear listeners. And because this is our last episode of the season and because it takes a lot of people to make a show like this, you wouldn't believe it really. I wanted to peel back the curtain and quickly thank all of the many wise people who helped make this podcast possible. Our rock star marketing team includes Lizzie Breyer Bowman, Jackie Westfall, Sahar Biharlu, Rose Dennis, Amber Gerardi Robinson, Sarah Richardson, and Shannon Locke. Thanks to our friends in business development, CeCe Dong Bryn, Val Bodurtha, Mia Lechardi, Ron Russ, and Dana Wickens. With additional support from Catherine Barnes, Brian Castillo, Autumn Dornfeld, Christina Perdomo Fernandez, Rochelle Green, and Noah Smith. Follow Wiser Than Me wherever you get your podcasts. And if there's an old lady in your life, listen up.