262: On Sex and the City: The Good Fight

Hi, I'm Lauren Gironi. And I'm Chelsea Fairless. And welcome back to the Every Outfit Podcast. Today, or at the very least, the day that this episode is coming out marks the fifth anniversary of the Every Outfit podcast. Are you sure? I am sure. February 27th, 2021 was the first episode of the podcast. I did not go back and listen to it because I never will. And I hope you fuckettes never go back to listen to our first episode. But I know that people do and it horrifies me. It does seem like we've been talking about dumb bullshit for a while now, but I wouldn't think it's been five years. I would think that we had been doing this for like three years. It's funny because in part we started this podcast because after five years of having the Instagram, we were like, there's no way that we can keep talking about sex in the city, right? There's no way that it's going to be relevant in our culture again. But, you know, we have this group of people who seem to like what we have to say. Maybe they'd be interested in us talking about fashion and pop culture. And you guys have been. But also, if you remember, it's like right after we started the podcast, they announced and just like that. Yep. So we thought, what better way to commemorate the podcast than doing one of our favorite episodes of Sex and the City, The Good Fight. I wanted to discuss this episode with you because I was casually rewatching it recently and I forgot how bad the Charlotte and Trey fight is. It's nasty. I mean, we're told that wasps don't fight like this. They don't fight at all. But as we learned, they do. It's also fully grounds for divorce, this fight. Like, I don't know if my relationship could withstand something like that. I will say that I went back to my DVDs and listened to the episode commentary with Daddy MPK for this episode just to refresh my memory on any fun facts, which I will pepper in throughout the episode. The sad thing is I have watched those DVDs so many times with the director's commentary that I pretty much knew everything he was going to say. But one of Michael Patrick King's points was that was the beginning of the end for Charlotte and Trey. Very purposely, that is a fight that no one can come back from. And so it's worth noting that this episode is the first episode back for part two of season four. So the end of part A of season four, we got Carrie and Aiden getting engaged, Charlotte and Trey deciding not to have a baby. The other interesting thing about this episode is, so the season finale of part one of Sex and the City season four, Just Say Yes, aired August 12th, 2001. So this episode, The Good Fight, comes back January 6th, 2002. Yikes. Which means this is the first episode where the Twin Towers are taken out of the intro sequence of Sex and the City. Right. Which is hard to fathom that this will be the 25th anniversary since September 11th, 2001. But that was a thing that like every television show did. Every television show refused to do a very special episode where their characters experienced 9-11. But I remember everyone's response was like, we just have to take the Twin Towers out of every shot. Yeah, I remember Law & Order SVU also added like a CGI American flag post 9-11. There was also that approach. Yeah, people were feeling patriotic, but no very special episodes, which to be fair, would have been weird in the world of Sex and the City. Although many a young screenwriter has written their spec script about what the events of 9-11 would be like for the Sex and the City characters. I also remember that the Twin Towers had to be digitally removed from the scene where Samantha and Richard fuck on a rooftop. Very true. Very true. I was going to wait until we got to that scene. But since you brought it up, Michael Patrick King was discussing the fact that he wanted the show to feel contemporary. And so you would very much know that the show was taking place in the past if you saw the Twin Towers in the background. Well, yeah, that would be so deeply distracting in the absolute saddest way imaginable. Especially three months after the event. So this episode begins with a Carrie voiceover. Someone once said that two halves make a whole. And when two halves move in together, it makes a whole lot of stuff. Not the strongest opening line, I have to say. It's not. We begin with Carrie trying to get into her apartment and unable to because Aiden has moved all of his shit in. And I have to ask, is this the most annoying Aiden has been in an episode? Because, look, I love a bit of Aiden's slander, but I'm also here for like, Aiden was a good boyfriend. But when I hear, hey, Pop-Tart, where you been and what have you been doing? It's like nails on a chalkboard to me. I'm like, ick, dump immediately. Okay, but I don't think he's actually doing anything wrong. I think the problem is that Carrie hates him and therefore doesn't want him in her apartment. And that's the tension of this entire episode. Like if you have a problem with coming home and your boyfriend going, how are you? In whatever fashion they would naturally say that in, you shouldn't instantly like want to murder them. That's very fair. I think he commits maybe the biggest Carrie Bradshaw sin later in the episode when he asks her to clean out her closet. So all of his boxes are everywhere. And we get an acknowledgement that I don't think we've ever gotten before, which is the fact that Carrie has two pathways to her bathroom. Yeah, she has two bathroom doors, which she feels is very needed and does not want Aiden's boxes blocking it in case, you know, rapists come through the door. and she's got a pew out of the apartment. Well, sadly, that's one of the more legit details on this show because you kind of have to have a rapist plan. Everyone does. That's more of a plan than I have, though. I'm just praying that I can hit the side button on my phone five times and grab the baseball bat from under my bed. Do you have a baseball bat underneath your bed? I've always had a baseball bat under my bed, especially when I lived in New York, but still to this day. Wow, five years into this podcast, I'm learning new things about you, Chelsea. Anyway, this is all to establish that Aiden has moved all of his shit in. If you notice the boxes say Aiden Shaw, CO, Carrie Bradshaw. Michael Patrick King acknowledges in the director's commentary that they are aware that if Carrie were to have ever married Aiden Shaw, that her name would be Carrie Bradshaw Shaw, which they found very funny. But Aiden's stuff is here because if you remember in the previous episode, they not only get engaged, but it's because Carrie's building is going co-op. She could not afford the $40,000 to buy into the co-op, which I've always felt was incredibly low. Okay, it's not crazy that she couldn't afford that, though. Oh, no, no, no. It's not crazy that she couldn't afford the $40,000. I think it's crazy that her apartment or the buy-in wasn't like $100,000. Oh, for sure. That is like somewhat attainable. It clearly is attainable for a Carrie Bradshaw. So Aiden offers to buy her apartment and then the completely invented apartment that is behind Carrie's apartment and combine them into a place that they can both live. So we learn that Aiden's ship is only going to be there for one more week right before they close and then he can move his stuff into that space. But Carrie is especially annoyed that he brought a plant into her apartment. I feel this. I'm not a plant centric or plant forward person. I'm with Carrie. Anything that comes into my house, well, I was going to say dies, but I have a baby, so I shouldn't say that. I'm not any plant I've ever had or orchid. It just doesn't go well. I'm surprised that Aiden doesn't have more plants. Doesn't Aiden seem like the kind of guy that would have a shitload of plants? Because the people that are into wood are often the same people that are into plants. He knew he was pushing it if he brought all his plants to Carrie's place. He was like, let me just start out with one. Also, is this the most casual we've ever seen, Carrie? She's in a faded t-shirt and this slip skirt and some flip flops. It definitely gave me the false impression that I could pull off this look. And I don't have that Carrie Bradshaw, Mary Kate Olsen, Zoe Kravitz, je ne sais quoi to wear undergarments as outerwear. See, I don't even remember what she was wearing, and I saw this episode yesterday. Therapy can help, but sometimes it isn't the whole answer. Talkiatry gives you access to real psychiatric care with licensed clinicians who can diagnose and prescribe medication if that's right for you. It's a simple way to get effective treatment right from home. 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Well, it's been referenced in the show before, but I do think that Carrie, and this is something that is honestly, it's gone from the series into the movies where she does have that Mia Farrow, Woody Allen fantasy of living in separate apartments across the park. I think that would be, if she had her druthers, what she would prefer. Yeah, because she hates Aiden. Well, also, this is something that I took at face value when I first watched the show as a teenager, but now as someone who has lived through a renovation, like lived in their space while was being renovated. Carrie, if you think Aiden sanding your floors was disruptive to your work life, what do you think is going to happen when you're actively living in one apartment when he's trying to connect yours to the other apartment? Yeah, exactly. But really, it's mostly the plant that bothers her. It's mostly his physical presence. It's not even the boxes. So the girls start to have a conversation about the things that they do when they're alone and they don't have a man around. It just feels great. I like to put Vaseline on my hands and put them in those Borghese conditioning gloves while watching infomercials. Before I was married, I used to study my pores in a magnifying mirror for an hour each night. But I'm afraid Trey will just think it's weird. Well, he would. You can't do that stuff in front of men. What about you, Lolita? Anything you do you wouldn't want a man to see? No. You know I believe her. I believe her too. I mean, I'm kind of in agreeance with Samantha. I do think the ultimate secret single behavior is masturbating, but these are highly specific things that each of these women do alone. And would you be surprised, Chelsea, that this came from the writer's room? Okay, but I need some clarity about Charlotte just looking at her pores. So you just look at them. You're not like popping a blackhead or doing anything like that. You're not like giving yourself a little facial. You're just staring at your pores. You're not even plucking some chin hair, perhaps your eyebrows. Yeah, she just looks at herself. I love that Charlotte's doing the Pomodoro method, but with her skin. Because I have to be honest, I don't know if I could look at my skin in a magnifying mirror for more than a minute. Oh, without getting seriously disturbed. Yeah. Same. So evidently there was a scene that they cut for time, but they did have a scene where Carrie was eating a stack of saltines. That just for timing or pacing, they got rid of after making Sarah Jessica eat like a hundred saltines in a row. I do relate to that kind of secret single behavior. I think a lot of it is about standing up and eating. Or for me, it's like not eating real meals or eating weird shit instead of a normal meal. I guess that would be called a girl dinner. I was going to say, what is your girl dinner? It really is like saltines and like a can of smoked fish or something. I mean, obviously, many people can relate to this. When you move in with a partner, whether they move into your space, you move into a separate space because before this sequence, Carrie's talking about like, it's not the plan. It's that he's taken over whole areas. And I feel like because, and she also makes this point, like, there are no walls to get away from Aiden. But I feel like she could indulge in her secret single behavior when Aiden's at work. I mean, she does have a freelance lifestyle. Of course. Do you have any secret single behavior? I think I discussed this on the podcast because, I mean, I've lived with other people before, but Paul was the first guy that I've ever lived with. And I don't know if it was because I'm an only child or something, but I used to have, no longer, but I used to have when we first moved in together, something I would call only child time where I needed to be alone and listen to music sort of standing. But you also chew like entire packs of gum by yourself. Although I haven't seen the gum around lately. So have you stopped doing that? No, I just hide it better. Yeah. I am a chain gum chewer, which is probably my most detestable habit that Paul absolutely hates. Because I also, I keep the old gum in the pack of gum. And once Paul reached in to my bag to like grab a piece of gum and then touch that instead. And rightfully, he was very disgusted by it. But a secret single behavior I guess I have that I did not realize until I got with Paul is I will often be having conversations or arguments in my head that I'm litigating. And Paul knows I'm doing that because even though I'm not saying anything, I'm just thinking I will gesticulate as I do as if I were having a conversation. So you're just crazy is what you're saying. Basically, yes. Living with someone else, it's been brought to my attention how psycho I am. See, I feel like all of my secret single behaviors could also qualify as like signs of depression because it's very much like I'll leave my little baby bell wax balls around the house or like I'll listen to like really depressing folk music or show tunes, which I would never do if my wife was around. Or I'll like stay up like until three in the morning, like smoking weed and buying like old magazines on eBay. Like that's the kind of shit that I do. You know what? And that's why we need our partners to go out of town every once in a while to indulge in those behaviors. Oh, mine's going to Tahoe on Tuesday, so I'm excited for some SSB. Oh, are you getting your eBay search words ready? Always. Okay, who do we think has the least weird secret single behavior? Carrie. I think it Miranda But she willingly watching infomercials Yeah but we know with Miranda it pre and Jim Was that what it was called Not Jules and Jim No bitch Jules and Mimi. That's a true foe. It's before Jules and Mimi. I think it's right before she got TiVo. There's nothing for her to watch but infomercials. So this is when Richard calls Samantha. He is Dick in her phone, which is very funny. I do love that Carrie says, hey, didn't we make a rule about those things at lunch? And I love Carrie having better phone etiquette in 2001 than any of us in 2026. And so this is when we learn that Carrie has told all of the girls that Samantha is fucking her boss, her boss, technically her coworker, her boss, but she refuses to give the girls all the dirty details, which is obviously highly unusual. And they're like, oh my God, Samantha has a crush. Samantha likes a guy. Samantha likes a guy. I love Miranda's line of like, oh my God, we're going to have to skate home because hell has frozen over. And the only details she gives about Richard is how perfect his dick is. It's dickalicious. A line that we have been saying for 20 plus years at this point. Yes, certainly the most iconic line from this episode. It's impossible for me to get into Richard. To me, he has like the absolute creepiest vibe. Like we've talked about how Mr. Big would probably be in the Epstein files, but like Richard would go to the island. Oh, I think we've said that. I think I said that Richard's plane went to Little St. James for sure. And whatever hotel he's building in Thailand also sounds sus to me. Yeah, it's hard to think of Samantha falling in love with someone like Richard because he is just such a player that all throughout this episode, it just feels like all of these red flags, like all of this romantic behavior. I don't know if I would take the bait. I know that they waited four seasons to give Samantha a love interest and for someone for her to fall in love with. But that is something in this rewatch where I'm like, I don't buy it this time. Well, they made him too creepy because Mr. Big is also presumably a soulless. real estate guy, but there's something about Richard that gives serial killer to me. Well, I don't think it helps that Richard Remar up until this point has been a that guy villain in almost every film he's been in for the past 20 years before being on Sex and the City. True. So I think he just imbues Richard with that energy. Your bra and underwear shouldn't be the most uncomfortable things you're wearing, But for the longest time, mine were. Digging in, riding up, just generally annoying. Look, I'm not gonna go commando, but I also don't want to feel my undergarments. That's where MeUndies comes in. The feel-free bralettes and undies are made from this ultra-soft modal fabric that moves with you. 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So shall we get into Charlotte and Trey? They're having yet another sad dinner in their Park Avenue apartment. I think it's breakfast. so charlotte wants to have the girls over for dinner because her calendar is just clear now that they're not trying for a baby to which something i just took at face value when i watched this episode as a teenager now that i've tried for a baby been pregnant had a baby all while working um what exactly was charlotte doing before that filled her calendar yeah you're Right, because she would just have like a handful of doctor's appointments and stuff. And there's only a few days a month where you're fertile enough to be able to get pregnant. This is pre-Harry and IVF and acupuncturist and all of that. Like her and Trey are just fucking a couple times a month. Presumably. We hope. But in the director's commentary, Michael Patrick King made the point that they wanted it to be known to the audience that it was aberrant that Charlotte went ahead. and fully designed a baby room without even being pregnant. That sounds like her. So she's like, hey, Trey, I'm going to have the girls over for dinner this week. So get the fuck out. Well, he at first is like, great, tell me what night. And she's like, no, just the girls, not you. So he tries to lift her spirits by saying a friend of his has gotten them tickets for the producers. Which in 2002 was a flex. Makes a lot of sense. Also, of course, a very meta reference. Because at the time, Sarah Jessica Parker's husband, Matthew Broderick, appeared in that Broadway revival. And this was the window where that power couple really, really owned New York during the height of Sex and the City and the height of the producers. And Trey just wants Charlotte to smile. And I have to say, like early 2000s tickets to the producers, that would elicit a smile for me. I think Charlotte is just being a bit of a sourpuss, I gotta say. Well, I agree Although she did just say We have a nursery but no baby And I think even more than that She's like, ever since I was a little girl I wanted a baby And we have a baby room but no baby Yeah, so I don't know if tickets to the producers Is going to be enough for her But don't worry, Trey's got another idea Of how he can possibly lift her spirits And now we're with Samantha and Richard at his office Gross This whole scene, because I have a lot of thoughts about this scene. Sure. Lay them on me. So Richard is arguing with someone in German. He doesn't speak German. Samantha walks in. He's like, oh, man, I wish I knew how to tell this person to fuck off. And so Samantha says, fic me. And then she realizes that's not fuck you. That's fuck me. And where this comes from, according to Daddy MPK, is that he was having dinner with Kim Cattrall once and she revealed that she's fluent in German. And that's how he decided to use that. Her speaking German is really funny, I have to say. We could have done with more of that. But this also, I think, lends to Kim Cattrall's annoyance at those involved in sex in the city, where it's like, she's fluent in German and this is what you're having her say with this skill set she has. But it's so funny. So Richard presents her with a rose, which immediately gives Samantha the ick. And I guess to prove to herself, question mark, her friends that she doesn't have feelings for this person, she decides to blow him in view of everyone. Yeah. She can't handle any sort of emotional intimacy. So she just immediately pivots to sex. but this is like extremely fucked up. Right. So even Richard is like, my secretary can see you because he has a completely glass office. It's like a glass cube within an open office. And so to get around this, she pretends to drop files so that she can not even go underneath his desk. Again, she is blowing him in full view of everyone. This is more fucked up than when she got caught by Carrie blowing the World Wide Express guy. For sure, because he's getting his dick sucked in view of his employees, which is, I would say, extreme workplace harassment. Oh, yeah. That secretary of Richard's is filing a sexual harassment claim against Samantha and Richard. And the fact that Samantha isn't arrested for public indecency. Or at the very least, Richard didn't want to hire her for sexist reasons because she fucked his architect. But like, you don't think this is going to be gossip around New York? That publicist Samantha Jones publicly blows her clients? Yeah, it's way more insane than the public sex that Miranda and Will Arnett had. I mean, is this Samantha's thing? I don't know. I think the way that they wrote it, they thought it might be less fucked up than it actually was when they shot it, just given what the location is like. because watching this again, I was like, oh, there's no plausible deniability. Like Richard's body doesn't even fully cover her. No, she is on her hands and knees sucking his dick in public. So Miranda, I'm just going to say it has a pretty boring plot line this episode. Not much going on with her. She is on a date with some guy who is in town. walker lewis fluent in five languages travels the world for the state department as an interpreter i feel like when people discuss that miranda deserve more than steve this is the type of guy they're imagining sure and he wants to fuck her makes a move and then she gets all like i don't know you know not tonight vibes and it's because she doesn't know whether or not it's appropriate for her to fuck this guy while pregnant with another man's baby. Which, if Sex and the City was going to do a pregnancy, they were going to do it their own way. And I think this best encompasses that, this walk and talk that we get with Carrie and Miranda in the very next scene. He is so cute and funny and sexy, and I really want to have sex with him, but I don't know. Is it okay to fuck one guy when you're pregnant with another guy's baby? If one more person asks me that today... I mean, I'm not in a relationship with the father of the baby or anything. Well, I've rarely heard that used as a plus, but go on. It's just, is it tacky? And beyond tacky, is it safe? Let's assume he's a really great fuck. Because so many men are. Could all that poking shake the baby loose or something? No, that's silly. Married couples have sex all the time, but what if he's huge? Again, because so many men are. Could the dick dent the baby? Where do you think dimples come from? Oh, that is so cute. See, in this scene, all I can see is Miranda's canvas tote bag that says stop using plastic bags. Which is funny because she has a plastic cup that she's drinking out of. That was during a time when I think people thought that we would just replace plastic bags with canvas bags. but it's before we fully started hoarding canvas bags to like an alarming degree. Pretty much everyone I know has a tote bag that is only filled with other canvas tote bags. Which is why we have chosen not to make another tote bag again. Well, we actually just did. Well, but it's very, very big. Yes. It's different than every other tote bag. Absolutely. It's functional in a different way. I think this is maybe, it's not exactly Carrie Bradshaw advice, but I think it's some of the funniest Carrie dialogue, like her thought process or her joke that dimples come from a dick being able to hit the baby. See, I found that to be a disturbing visual, but that's just me. I mean, yeah, it's upsetting. It's not possible, just FYI. Just clarifying that for the listener. So they reach Carrie's apartment and her neighbor is coming out. Mrs. Cohen. Mrs. Cohen, who immediately to Carrie is like, that's a crazy outfit. Which is so funny for two reasons. This is maybe the most subdued Carrie look possible. Like this is a look you can recreate through Los Angeles apparel. And Mrs. Cohen looks like your grandmother, or should I say my grandmother from Boca Raton circa 1994. Like Mrs. Cohen is dressed insane. I mean, to be fair, Carrie was in that phase where she was tying a scarf around her upper arm for absolutely no reason. Another thing that she has for no reason is if you'll notice, there's a neon visor around her wrist. That's purely, I think, for accessory reasons. No functionality at all. And so this is the woman who evidently lives in the completely invented apartment that they needed for this storyline. Because we've been watching this show now for four seasons. Carrie's apartment completely faces the front of, we know it's Perry Street, but 73rd Street. And there's just a mysterious apartment next to hers that is also behind hers. I mean, it makes sense most New York apartments are set up two apartments per floor in a brownstone like that. Sure. But I feel like it's established that all of the windows that face the street are Carrie's. I like to think that Mrs. Cohen for the last 60 years has lived in a windowless box. But Carrie is helping her elderly neighbor down the stairs, I think, to be nice and also to ask her when she will be leaving. and she informs her that it won't be for another 30 days and that her boy should read the contract. So Carrie has a mini breakdown. She goes upstairs to Aiden and tells him he has a tantrum. It is a part of Aiden that we will see several times and then just like that. And you are correct. It is a full toddler tantrum, although it is comforting to Carrie because it's the first acknowledgement he has of like, we can't have our shit here for 30 days. We can't live like this. To which I wonder, perhaps Aiden could have put his stuff in a storage unit. I mean, that seems a little crazy. Maybe he moved out prematurely. Well, I mean- He was probably at a month to month lease at that point. Just saying. This would never happen, but let's just have this argument because we've watched this episode 50 times. Realistically, they should have moved to Aiden's apartment while Aiden did renovations and made these two apartments into one. Right. That is the logical choice. But it's sex in the city and we would not get this amazing argument if that had happened. If logic had won out. I do love Sarah Jessica Parker's delivery when Aiden goes, we can't live like this. You can't get through the fucking door. And she goes, I know. Did you see me? Every time. Every time. I love it. And then we have the funny like, I guess we could make some room if we cleaned out your closet. And then we have this kind of Dutch tilt of the camera and a gong noise of Carrie being like, oh, okay, I didn't know that would be the solution. This scene is so funny because Aiden talks shit about her shredded Roberto Cavalli top that he's never seen her wear. Although she alleges that she wore it to a book signing once. Was she signing her own book? No, she didn't have a book. by that point. No, she just wore this to someone else's. Someone else's random book signing. Joyce Carol Oates, perhaps? I do love the line where she's like, that's when I realized I was holding on to a Roberto Cavalli outfit and throwing away my relationship. Again, I'm only asking this because we watched this episode a million times before, but what was the plan with the closet space? Because I feel like this really reinforces, If you look at the grand scheme of things in Sex and the City, from the series to the movies, why Big is better for her, right? In the film, you have Big being like, I will build you a bigger and better closet. Why can't Aiden take Mrs. Cohen's closet? Surely that bitch has one. Well, she's still there. Yeah, but we're talking about 30 days here. You can live out of boxes for 30 days. It's like not that hard. Even just your average person that moves has to live out of boxes for a time. Again, we wouldn't get this great fight if this didn't happen, but realistically, because Carrie doesn't actually use her kitchen, just stack all of Aiden's boxes in the kitchen. True, except he probably does actually cook. Well, the fajitas, as we know. If your skincare isn't working, you're probably skipping this step. Gentle daily exfoliation. I recently started using BareFace toning pads. 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And they knew going in that they needed this Pete to chew on a prop shoe. And so for two months, the prop department, who I guess are also animal wranglers, trained that dog to eat that shoe. Well, they did a great job. Also, I did put in anytime I hear an amount that Carrie purchased for clothing and when, I'm automatically putting that into the inflation calculator. Because she bought these ugly ass Madolos, which if you don't remember them, it's some sort of like turquoise and brown strappy sandal with these like mother of pearl button accents. Anyway, she bought them for $380 then. In 1996. Inflation calculator says that today they should be or would be $787. What a dream. Yes, because pretty much any, I would call them an entry-level Manolo Blahnik is $900, if not $1,100. Yeah, I was about to say, I feel like all shoes are $1,200 now. I think what is so great about this sequence is the built-in tension. And this is something that Michael Patrick King was talking about. This is one of the longest sequences in the show, if you think about it. You know, we always talk about how they shove so much story into each episode. but I mean the fact that Carrie wears the same outfit in three scenes the Miranda walk and talk this fight and then the following scene I think is pretty astounding but you think they're going to get into a fight when she comes into the apartment and then the tension is broken because they both realize like they can't live like this then you think they're going to fight about the clothing and then they don't Carrie acquiesces and then it's like once Pete chews on the Manolo Oblonic, we're past the point of no return. And we get this. My shit wouldn't be lying around if we weren't making room because your shit is lying around. You got more shit lying around than I got lying around. What? Look at this place. It's loaded with your shit. Just look at this bathroom. Look at all your shit in my bathroom. Who needs five almost empty speed stick deodorants? What are you, a crazy bag man? They're different smells. And, Musk, when have you ever worn Musk? I mean, look at this stuff. You got old razors, Rogaine. Wait a minute. You used Rogaine? I didn't know you needed... It's preventative. But is your hair falling? I don't want to talk about it! It seems it's not only women who have secret single behavior. This is my stuff. Don't be going through my stuff. You were more than happy to go through my stuff. Oh, your stuff, your bathroom. You always do that. You never want to let me in. I don't always do anything, and I have let you in. You're fighting with me about a stupid fucking outfit. Oh, shut up. It's Roberto Cavalli. I threw it away, and I love it. What more do you want? Shut up. Shut up. Yes, shut up. Shut up. You're telling me to shut up. Please, just shut up. I am so sick of hearing you talking, talking, talking all the time. don't you ever just shut up i'm gonna take a walk no no no no no no no i'm taking a walk you can stay here with your boxes of shit and your shoe eating dog and you can knock yourself out putting on the rogaine and the speed stick carrie did get a good one in at the end i have to say i'm impressed with her about you can stay here with your roger you can knock yourself out with the Rogaine in the speed stick. I am amazed that the And Just Like That writers somehow forgot the continuity of Lisa Todd Wexley's father dying, but somehow remembered to reference this specific fight, three things in this fight in And Just Like That. Because it's either season two or season three, we see Aiden using Rogaine. I believe when Carrie is staying with him in Virginia is when she references all of his speed sticks. And when Carrie gets pissed off at Aiden for talking to Duncan in season three, he goes, I'm going to take a walk. And she goes, no, I'm taking a walk. Oh, I forgot about that. To be fair, Carrie loves to take an introspective walk around the city. That's her main passion in life, is wearing a crazy outfit and just wandering and looking at the falling leaves and shit. It is amazing that Carrie didn't switch outfits before heading to this Starbucks. I guess she swiped her laptop before storming out of the apartment. I like that she thinks that people that work on their laptops at Starbucks are pretentious posers because I kind of think the opposite. Okay, yeah, let's get into this. I couldn't help but wonder because I do want to discuss that. I used to think those people who sat alone at Starbucks writing on their laptops were pretentious posers. Now I know. They're people who have recently moved in with someone. As I looked around, I wondered how many of them were mid-fight, like myself. The hard thing about fighting in relationships as opposed to Madison Square Garden, no referee. There's no one to tell you which comments are below the belt or when to go to your separate corners. As a result, someone usually gets hurt. And it seems the closer a couple gets and the more stuff they have between them, the harder it is to figure out exactly why they're yelling. When it comes to relationships, I couldn't help but wonder, what are we fighting for? Carrie, you think people working at Starbucks or people with their laptops at Starbucks are pretentious losers? I would just assume, especially in New York, that they are freelancers with roommates and this is the only place they can go to in a pre-WeWork society. See, when I worked for Cecilia Dean, she said something that stuck with me for years, which is that she would never take a laptop to a coffee shop because she didn't want to be around those quote unquote sad people working on their screenplays. And I think about that often, especially because I now live in Los Angeles. Well, can we discuss that this week you and I were at a coffee shop and I don't think anyone was working on a screenplay, but there were several people fully doing video editing on their laptops with several hard drives just taking up these small tables? Horrible. Look, I get it. You have to get out of your apartment and I definitely have worked at a coffee shop before, but I definitely wouldn't go to pretentious. Oh, you wouldn't think that they're pretentious. Annoying, perhaps, especially if they're working on a screenplay. But then what's more disturbing? If they had a privacy screen on, so you couldn't see what they were working on. I don't think anyone's actually done that. I don't want to know what they're working on. There is just like a specific energy in a certain kind of Starbucks when there's too many people on their laptops. It like fucks up the vibe. Well, there are coffee shops now that insist that you can't be on your laptop. I will say one of the craziest things I've ever seen at a Starbucks, actually, in the Lower East Side when I was living in New York, was someone had a full desktop gamer setup in a Starbucks. See, I think there needs to be more etiquette in Starbucks. Or we could just not, I mean, go to Starbucks. There's that. There is that. I mean, but this is behavior. It began at Starbucks. What I also think is funny is thinking about early 2000s era laptops and their battery life. Like you're getting maybe 25 minutes of work done before that laptop shuts down. Okay, but to get back to the I couldn't help but wonder. A very nonspecific I couldn't help but wonder. Like I heard words, but I don't know what any of them meant. And sometimes certain I couldn't help but wonders are like that. I think we're learning through these rewatches that more times than not, it is just a word salad. Yeah. Okay, so the central question is, when it comes to relationships, I couldn't help but wonder, what are we fighting for? You're fighting because you're having the same argument over and over again about some fundamental difference between the two of you. In this case, I think it's the fact that Carrie just hates Aiden. So there's that. And her hatred will only grow in coming episodes. Right. And I think that is embodied in something that Aiden says again and again, which is, you won't let me in. I think the last time he talks about that is in my motherboard myself, when she won't let him into her grief about Miranda's mother dying. And I think your point, which is funny that she just hates Aiden, but there is something where, and we've discussed this before, she becomes emotionally available and treats Aiden the way that Big treated her. Right. So it's very hard for us to understand it and just like that, that this is the second greatest love of her life. Totally. because her resentment of him and the general ick that she has, we see it turn into a full-blown phobia in the case of her wedding dress meltdown. He starts to be like triggering for her. Yeah, and we'll get there when we get to this episode, but his pushing her towards a heteronormative lifestyle with all of the markers. Yeah, and that repulses her. This is something that I took at face value watching it as a much younger person, but I continue to find it fascinating that we've never seen them have a conversation about their expectations for this relationship. Like when she finds the engagement ring, it shocks the shit out of her. Right. In a way that you would just normally have these conversations. But back to I couldn't help but wonder, what are we fighting for? For me, being married to someone who hates fighting. I've come to learn a concept that I was previously unaware of, being in lifelong situationships, that I guess me and my husband are, quote, on the same team, and it's not about winners or losers in fights. I mean, there's always a winner and a loser. Not according to Paul. Although I'm often like, but I am right, right? Okay, to me, the crazier thing about this fight is that they then didn't speak to each other for three whole days while being in the same apartment, like that is much more shocking than the fight itself and what they said to each other. Like I could never have a fight like that with a partner. It would drive me crazy. Yeah. As someone who doesn't have a problem with confrontation or fighting, not that I seek it out, but like the idea of- You don't seek it out, but you do seem very comfortable. But I would never let a fight go on for three days. No, because at that point, it's like you guys are behaving like children. Which Aiden has demonstrated. He does act like a toddler. And Carrie is notoriously a woman-child kind of character. But as Carrie says in the voiceover, she is ready to apologize. But it's the fact that, I don't know, he looks at her and says nothing when she walks through the door that she's like, fuck it. Fight is continuing. No, nothing annoys me more than that in a fight where it's the point that I'm over it. I don't give a shit. I would rather just like go on about my day and have a nice rest of the day. Like I literally can't be fucked to continue to have a fight or be a fucking bummer. And then when your partner is not there, then it's like you're re-angry all over again because you're like, can't you just grow the fuck up and move on so i completely understand carrie's emotional response to that but i do not understand how that translates into three days of the silent treatment like that's psychotic no you can have that fight in the afternoon come home in the evening be pissed off with each other go to sleep on separate sides of the bed but in the morning you gotta go sorry Sorry. Let's move some of my clothing to storage or whatever. Like there is a middle ground solution. Yeah. I just can't imagine being able to sustain being that petty for quite so long in my own home. You know, it's one thing if you're not with someone. Sure. But I love this idea of you're like, if I don't see a bitch, I can hold a grudge for years. Well, it's certainly easier. Most people think fiber is just about staying regular. 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Michael Patrick King claims that these existed in novelty stores. When he said this in the writer's room, everyone's jaw was on the floor and they had to figure out a way to engineer this into an episode. Did he give this to like a reproductively challenged fag hag that he was friends with or like his boyfriend who wanted a child. The way that he tells the story, it seems like it was his boyfriend who wanted a child. And so he thought he would break the tension by getting a cardboard baby. To be fair, I think I would do something like that. Although even I understand that when it comes to infertility, that is one of the few things that you actually can't joke about. I think that we joke about a lot of dark shit all the time. I think we've even been on record saying that a red line for us is infertility. I would be more conscious than Trey, although I understand his impulse to begin with. We should also mention that Kyle MacLachlan has a memoir coming out that was just announced called Fictional Selves. It comes out in October. We will be reading. We will be discussing. It has a great cover. And that not surprising because Kyle McLaughlin has time and time again proved himself to be much cooler than the average celebrity certainly the average actor The only celebrity of this generation who can get away with doing Gen Z memes on TikTok So yeah this is where there a brief kind of montage interlude where Miranda and Samantha are indulging in their secret single behavior. Miranda's got the Borghese gloves and is watching infomercials and she makes a date with Walker Lewis because she's decided she's getting fucked. We forgot to mention in this walk and talk, there's a very funny dead woman fucking line that Miranda has that this is the last time she'll ever be able to have sex because if she doesn't fuck him now that she'll be too big and pregnant the next time he comes to town. So it's a dead man walking pun is what you're saying in reference to a movie that completely traumatized me if I'm being honest when I first saw it. Never seen it. Your parents brought you to the theater? No I definitely rented it. I think Susan Sarandon winning best actors for that movie is one of the first like Oscars that I really remember, but very disturbing movie. Anyway, Samantha discovers that she has her own secret single behavior, which is caressing the rose that is meant to represent Richard's penis all over her face and body. And then she immediately realizes what she's doing, gives herself the ick and then throws it in the trash. So then we've got Carrie and the girls at Charlotte's house for dinner. I love two things that are established at the beginning of this scene, which is Charlotte tells the group that her and Trey do not fight because they're wasps. They don't yell. And also it becomes clear that the cardboard baby was such an embarrassing incident that she didn't even bring it up to the three girls. Right. Because Trey comes in, he forgets that the girls are having dinner, and he's like, oh, I guess she's told you about the baby. Carrie, you're funny. cardboard baby. That's funny, right? I mean, it's not funny, ha-ha, but silly. See, they sell them in novelty stores. And other people buy them. And the clerk said that it was funny. You know what? Maybe you have to see it. Don't you bring that thing in here. It's silly. It's silly. Not to me it isn't. How would you feel if I gave you a cardboard cutout of a big flaccid penis? It's not so funny now, is it? Don't you bring that flat baby in here. I will kill you. How dare you talk to me like that in front of your friends? Oh, they know all about your penis problems and they're just sick of hearing about it. There we were, right in the middle of a wasp nest. This is unforgivable. No, what's unforgivable is you denying me my baby because of your own selfish, spoiled needs. I'm spoiled? Yes. You, you are spoiled. I mean, the fight goes on. I would die to witness a fight like that. I'm trying to think. I mean, look, I think we all know couples who their thing is to fight publicly in front of you. For sure. But you're talking about a couple who's repressed that you never see fight. Exactly. Have a huge public blowout. Yeah. Well, at least they're in the privacy of their own home. That I suppose is the element that would be a little uncomfortable because there's kind of no escape in that way. But I would just be thrilled to witness a fight like this. I gotta remember this for your next birthday. I'll engineer a public fight for Paul and I to have. Yeah, I've never seen you guys have a fight. You saw me and my ex have a fight in front of Jumbo's clown room, no less. I don't know if that was a fight exactly. I mean, I would qualify that as a fight. I think being in what I would call a healthy relationship, we don't really fight. If we fight, it's about stupid stuff. Would you agree? I don't know. I'm not in this house with you guys. I meant for yourself and Taz. Oh. Yeah, we don't have intense or like particularly dark fights, which I appreciate. We have stupid fights over dumb bullshit. Yeah. And usually when she's hangry. Also, just going back to Charlotte and Trey's fight, I mean, Charlotte is a petulant child. Just saying like, you've denied me my baby. Yeah, there's no coming back from that. So the girls vacate the apartment. Well, I love that Miranda, of all the girls, the pregnant one has the afters. Oh, because she's going to fuck. She's going to fuck Walker Lewis. And she keeps rushing through the dinner. And there's a bit of ADR for reasons I don't know. Because it's not on Carrie, but you hear Carrie say, or Sarah Disco Parker say in a very ADR line, don't worry, you're not meeting him till 10 p.m. And I'm like, why did we have to add that? I wasn't wondering what time Miranda was meeting Walker Lewis, but okay. And then, yeah, Richard calls Samantha and she goes to meet him at his rooftop. So many questions about this apartment. We've already discussed Richard's cursed bedroom with the double staircase. Yes. That evidently has a pool on the roof. That is quite a flex, I have to say. I would be impressed by that. And it's genuinely cute that he like made up a little table or got his housekeeper to make up a little table, whatever. One of his three assistants. He's thinking of Samantha and that's cute. But again, I'm so instantly repulsed by this guy. It's this scene is difficult for me. Well, I don't think it helps that when he wants to dance with her to Sade and she won't acquiesce. He's like, I'm your boss. It's an order. I mean, it's James Remar, so he does say it with a little more panache, but I don't know. It's not a great look. See, this scene is cringe to me because of a combination of factors. It's like his full frontal nudity, the song, the slow dancing, and the terrifying Carrie Bradshaw voiceover, which was all this time she'd been trying to make him just a perfect dick, fighting her feelings that he might be the perfect Richard. Like that is too much for me. Well, yeah. And also in Carrie voiceover earlier in the scene, she goes, Samantha met the Dawn after a night of SSB, sexy swimming behavior. Yeah, we could have also done without that. This scene could have been like 30 seconds. I'm sure the people who had to CGI out the Twin Towers that were in the background would have also agreed with you of like, this is a five minute scene and we got to get rid of the Twin Towers. Damn. That's the only thing that could make this scene more cursed than it already is. Yeah, I think the first time watching this series, I took a lot of things at face value. And now as an adult rewatching it, I don't know. Richard does not come off charming to me in this rewatch. And it really makes me judge Samantha that she can't see through the fact that he's going to say that he wants to be with her, but he's not going to be. He's not going to commit to her. Right. monogamously in the way that she does for him. Imagine if Samantha had a boy toy like Smith Jared while she was dating Richard. Imagine if she just had a better version of Richard that was someone that on some level we were actually rooting for them to be together in the way that we accept Big like he's not perfect, he's emotionally unavailable, but we still like want it to work. Did anyone ever feel that about Richard and Samantha? I don't think so. No, and I think where the Richard storyline goes, I feel like colors our view of Richard when we do these rewatches. For sure. But again, he was always very upfront about who he was, especially in a sort of workplace harassment context. Oh my God. I had forgotten about that scene and now I'm re-traumatized. Shall we go over the final Carrie Aiden scene? Sure. Also, I just want to bring up Carrie comes home from Charlotte and Trey's fight. She finally apologizes to Aiden. She lays on top of his back fully dressed and is like, I fell asleep that way that night. You fell asleep sleeping on Aiden's back? To be fair, she's probably like 80 pounds. That's like, you know, a medium sized dog. I mean, for him. Oh, yeah. I don't think he's uncomfortable. I think for Carrie, sleeping on a six foot five man is not very comfortable compared to your mattress. Look, she needed to watch Charlotte and Trey humiliate each other so that she could reconnect with Aiden. So anyway, Carrie enters the house again. This is where we get an acknowledgement of the Bradshaw Shaw residence. She says everything was pretty much business as usual. Aiden is being the most chill we've seen in this episode. He's just sitting in the chair that he designed, he made, reading a book. And this is where Carrie is finally like, you know, I don't know how to say this because I've never lived with someone before. But I just need a moment when I enter the door, which is like, you said that correctly. You don't need to have lived with someone just to communicate that you need a little alone time. I think this is a psychotic request just because it's like there's not a room that she can go into. It's more awkward just not speaking to someone on the other side of a curtain than it is to just have the debrief when you walk through the door. Well, also, presumably, she's either come from brunch with the girls, shopping, seeing Stanford. Do you need some alone time? It's not like you've just come home from your high pressure nine to five. It's not like you're Miranda and the last thing you need is more stimulation after arguing with lawyers for the last 12 hours. Yeah, totally. But anyway, he says, sure, of course, I won't bother you. And then another thing we've never seen in Carrie's apartment before, but I guess it does exist, is that she has curtains in between the living room and the bedroom. She lays on the bed. And then, of course, once Aiden has given her what she wants, she doesn't want it anymore. And instead invades his space and annoys him and sits on his lap while he was just trying to read a book. And I truly love the way that this episode ends so much because it cuts to the next day or is it weeks later, potentially, right? Her voiceover is, as our 30 days wore on, Aiden and I miraculously managed not to kill each other. But as I predicted, the plant was not so lucky. Okay. So she walks out of her apartment in the Cavalli top and throws the plant in the trash can. This is like the Carrie Bradshaw level of compromise. She's like, I'm not getting rid of my clothes and I'm killing your plant because it's invaded my space. Yes, and Michael Patrick King is like, see, we wanted to show the audience that Carrie didn't give up a part of herself, that Carrie is still her. And it's like, yeah, in the most dickish way possible. Well, also, like, it's not on her to water that plant. No, Aiden could keep that plant alive. Either Aiden didn't water that plant or there's just like not enough natural light in Carrie's apartment or something. Okay, Manolo rating. 10. You're giving it a 10. Interesting. I'm giving it an 8. Oh, because I don't think Miranda's plotline is that interesting. Carrie's, it's obviously important to establish, you know, her hatred for Aiden, which will only grow in future episodes. But it is a very eventful episode for Samantha and for Charlotte, certainly. And we don't ever get another fight scene like that, really, on this show. I don't think we even get a fight scene like that between Carrie and anyone else. I mean, I guess her screaming at Big in the penultimate episode, you and me, nothing! Right. Okay, who's the MVP? This was hard for me. And you've given it only an eight because Miranda doesn't have a good storyline, but I would say- It's also not a good fashion episode. No. Notice we've talked about not one thing anyone has worn. The best thing is the Cavalli top and the look that we get at the end of the episode. But up until that point, there's nothing to speak of. Well, I was going to say that the MVP is perhaps Miranda. And hear me out. I think it speaks to the ethos of the show and perhaps the greatest aspirations of third wave feminism, that you are a successful single woman who is pregnant with one man's baby, but you're fucking another man. It's beautiful. Actually, now that I'm saying that out loud, that is the entire second half of Wuthering Heights, which, guys, I heard your comments. I know. Don't you have something to apologize for? That I said evidently Wuthering Heights instead of Wuthering Heights? See, I didn't even notice that and I was sitting here. I'm sorry that I said Wuthering Heights instead of Wuthering Heights and I'm glad to never talk about that movie again. Okay. My MVP is Charlotte. Okay. Just because that fight was iconic. And I feel like it's rare that she gets like a big episode about her. All right. I see that. So who are you voting off the island of Manhattan? I think it's obvious. Richard, obviously, in his perfect pink dick. Okay, I guess it's not. I was gonna say Trey with the cardboard baby. I still think that's better than sexually harassing all of your employees. Oh, I mean, in 2017, there definitely was a New York Magazine expose about Richard Wright. Best dressed. I know what you're going to say. So I pick something different. I'm just going to say Carrie. Yes. In the Cavalli? Yeah. Well, as established, there's nothing else to talk about. But who are you picking? I'm going to say Samantha, just because I do enjoy power suit Samantha, but I do have a soft spot for a slinky dress Samantha, which we get to in this episode. The green dress that she traumatizes all of Richard's employees with by blowing him and then the lilac purple dress that she wears to the dinner and then she takes off in the pool scene. See, I completely forgot about all of that. Best line. Okay, this might not be the best line and this might partially have to do with the delivery of it, but it does always make me laugh when Trey says, Carrie, you're funny. Cardboard baby, that's funny, right? That makes me laugh. See, I'm just going with it's dickalicious. I can't argue with that. Sometimes I know what you're going to answer. And so I will pick a different answer. Well, this is objectively the most famous line from the episode. And sometimes and often that's because it is the best. Well, also so much of this episode, there are a lot of great fights. There are a lot of funny moments. But like I was saying about my favorite line, so much of it is the actor's delivery, like the whole exchange between Aiden and Carrie getting mad about Carrie telling Aiden to shut up. Like the way that Sarah Jessica Parker delivers shut up is funny, but on its face, if you read shut up, it would not qualify for best line. Totally. Who are you in the episode? I hate to say it, Carrie. Same. I couldn't deal with straight man possessions entering my space. That's disgusting. Well, I was also going to say, and you're going to hate this, but especially at the end when she's like, I need alone time. And then as soon as he gives it to her, she's like hey what are you doing because that is some annoying shit i would probably do well it's good that you know yourself yeah biggest trigger i'm going with he might be the perfect richard okay yeah it makes me want to barf i can't get over it yeah you can make richard a pun by calling him a dick but it really doesn't work the other way around i'd rather look at his flaccid dick than listen to this particular Carrie voiceover. I would have to say that my biggest trigger is the cardboard baby. Or maybe it has something to do with the fact that this really came from Daddy MPK's life. Maybe I want cardboard babies back in novelty stores and that's what I'm triggered by. Something around that bothers me. Okay, hottest take. Pressure's on you because I don't have one. Okay. Mrs. Cohen did nothing wrong. Again, this is something that I took at face value when first watching this as a teenager. and I'm like, Mrs. Cohen is a bitch. Why doesn't she just move out in a week? But if you hear what Aiden says, he says we should be closing in a week. He means the contract. When you buy a place, there is an escrow period, which is what Mrs. Cohen is referring to. That's why she's yelling at them like, I have 30 days, read the contract. So you know what? Mrs. Cohen did nothing wrong. And you're trying to push out your elderly neighbor who definitely sold you her stake in this co-op, this prime Upper East Side brownstone co-op, probably for under market value. Where's Mrs. Cohen going? To a condominium in Boca Raton? Probably. Let her move out at her own pace. Absolutely. She has seniority. Anywho, we've reached the end of our fifth anniversary episode. Oh my God. To another five years? I think I can commit to five years Okay We'll see what father time has in store For our crazy asses Alright guys, we'll be back next week Bye