Choose Your Creative Path with Erika Alexander and Kim Coles

I got in my car and I saw like a baby because I realized I had not accepted my fate. And I cried for 20 minutes straight where I said, you are an actress. Was it Tears of Joy? Were you happy about it? No, it was Tears of Recognition and Worthy. You just maybe suppressed and I couldn't believe. Yeah, but also were you. Yeah, and maybe my own expectations were not to be an actress, to be a scientist or something much more legitimate. And yet this is my life. And I have to say stop running for it, accept it. You're here and you're doing well. I mean, it's not easy, but I was made for it. This episode is brought to you by Rivian and Colagard. Hi, Craig Robinson. I haven't seen you in a second. I know. I know. We have gotten into a good cadence with these and then all of a sudden, boom. Yeah, yeah. Two months go by, I feel like I haven't seen you. You are just getting back from more basketball tournaments, the endless slog of AAU. We had our final event down in Orlando. So final meaning. Final for the summer. Final for the summer. Not final for our lives. 15 and 13, we've got another five years of this. So they were at a tournament. They were at the last tournament of the summer and both of their teams played really well. They played well. And you know me, I treat these as business trips, not as vacations. So it's usually no pool, no late nights. Why? Why? Because you're just trying to instill some discipline. You're trying to have them ready for the nine o'clock game. Boo for you. But this time. So they're in Orlando. They can't swim in the pool. This time, I acquiesced and I was like, you know what, guys? You've had a good year. You've worked hard. Oh my God, you're crazy. Go ahead. Jump in the pool. Jump in the pool. Have fun. Stay up late. But you know, it was really, really interesting. What was really interesting is you remember when I talked a while ago about going on these trips to stand in an Airbnb? Yeah. There's like four or five families now that are, they were like, oh, that's a good idea because we had them over for hours. Yeah. Yeah. So you guys stayed in an Airbnb. You had a whole house. It felt like everybody had a whole. Everybody had an Airbnb. There we go, Airbnb. Everybody's catching on. It's like, go get your Airbnb because you had a pool at your Airbnb that you didn't let the kids use except for once. Pool and the convenience of not having to pay for food and beverage everywhere you go. Well, that's good. I'm just glad that you let those boys swim. I am too. I am too. You know what? I'm easing up in my old age. Yeah, you should. You really should. But we need to do a podcast on. You need to ease up. You got some lies. You got jokes. I thought we had the comedians on as guests. Well, we've got a great, exciting joke. Oh, I just can't. I mean, you watch Living Single, right? Am I breathing black and a female? It's like, yes, yes. All the crew. Man. And you know, you and I didn't get to live single like that. We went to college. We had roommates in college. But then once we got out of college, we both lived on our own. And when that show came out, because that show was out, I was having kids by then, I was so envious of those relationships and the fun they were having and hanging with their friends. And I mean, I was, I can't wait to talk to these two. Well, we, our guests are two of the stars of everybody's favorite, the first real girlfriend comedy for black folks and young folks. You know, and not just girlfriends, because they had, yeah, yeah, but we'll get into that because, you know, I saw it while the guys were there. You know, the friendships of women in my view were that that was the thing that stood out for me. The brothers upstairs, that was nice. But the show centered around that bond that women had and the very different personalities of all your girlfriends and some people like some folks and other folks get on your nerves, but you still find a way to learn from each other and grow. But anyway, introduce our guests. Because we were getting way too into it. We're getting into it and we need the experts out here. But the first we have Erica Alexander, who is a SAG, an independent spirit award nominated actress known for her iconic acting roles as Maxine Shaw in Living Single, as we've mentioned. She's also started, starred in American fiction, which you and I were talking about recently, Get Out and The Cosby Show. And Kim Cole's, with over four decades on stage and on screen, is beloved for her role as Sinclair James Jones. And she's also co-host of the hit podcast Reliving Single. Erica and Kim are co-hosts. Yes, they are both co-hosts of Reliving Single. So without any further ado, Erica Alexander and Kim Cole's come on out. Erica and Kim, you guys welcome to I am a ring ring coach. Hello sir, honey. How'd you do? How'd you do? Thank you. Hello, hello. Hello, hello. Your sister, your sister. Hello. I can't wait to get into this. Alrighty. It's a have you guys come all sit on it. We could barely introduce you because we were getting into the whole now my mother can die. I can't believe that my children, my children have gone places I never thought. I was like, is that how your mother talks? Yes, I'm not. She's one of those. She was she a thespian. She's one of those. I don't want to be your mom. I never my children like my come on. It's like come on. Yeah, no. She's ecstatic and so are we. My mother's 95. Just turned 95. Wow. You're going to meet Miss. Oh, I know who you are. It's one of the mothers never seen. One does never see. Well, if our mom were alive, she'd be flipping over you to be in here. She, you know, is so proud to see two amazing smart because it wouldn't just be because you were acting and on TV. Bless you. Okay. She would be thrilled with the way you present yourself in the world. We met Mother Mary. Let me tell you something. That would have put me over the top. I would have never served myself in Thanksgiving. They would just be like, that's amazing. Thank you. Well, it's great to see you too. You look great. First of all, this is like, and Craig is probably fanboying. I am. Yeah, you're right. Thank you. You're beautiful. Thank you. Bless you. Keeping it together. Happy from the inside out is my trick. It shows. Thank you. Happy from the inside. And it's a choice, right? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Mine is gin tonics. It starts from the inside. Yes. I should probably speak to someone about it. It does. I think it's working. I think it's working. So you guys, you guys, uh, reliving single. I mean, what a great idea. Well, you know, so we could live it and relive it. Yeah. Yeah. What made you think to, you know, hop back into the conversation? Tell our origin story. Tell the origin story. Tell the origin story. Tell the origin story. How I do what my mother does. Well, actually, you know, it was like this, 30 years. It's been 30 years. 32 years. 32 years since we did the original show, Living Single. And it was, uh, 1993, I think when we came out. And, um, all these years I've been walking around with this face. Yeah. And, um, I realized that a lot of people were asking me questions. And, you know, many times I wanted to answer them and I kept answering the same question. And then after a while, people wanted to start talking about reboots and those things. And I was never really for that. So I was doing work with Keller Farm Media. That's my company. And we were doing some really great work with Kevin Hart's company and Charlemagne and Kevin Hart Heartbeat. They have a really great audio team and Eric Eddings, who was there, said, Hey, would you ever do a rewatch podcast of Living Single? And I said, no, hell no. No, thanks. So what was the first instinct? Did it feel like that would be to, would it feel like you were pulling yourself back to a place? Yeah. Was it, was it annoying you guys having your faces and having people remember you primarily? Not me. She's speaking for herself. Yeah. Okay. I should, because, well, it was difficult. And it wasn't difficult because I had any issues with it. It's just that I just, I'm a person that likes to look forward. I love new things. And then I thought about the opportunity of being able to talk about the industry, all the things that I've experienced, Eric Alexander in this world, and sort of showing up as myself as opposed to a proxy for Maxine Shaw, attorney at law, who I love. And we've done work with her, you know, in Maxine Shaw effect, the thing that she's, you know, kind of set off with, you know, lawyers who felt inspired by her. But I said, I don't know if they really know who Erica is because as well known as we are, especially back in the day, they didn't really interview a lot of black actors about their lives. So I said, well, this, this is it, like take your shot. And then it was just like, well, who will you do it with? And, you know, I happen to be invited to one of my best friends in life and the perfect partner for this. And that's Kim Cole. Take it from here, Kim. I'll say that, you know, we, we, we do hear often, where's the reboot? We love that show. There aren't any shows like this on the air. And I think that there's a real, you know, it's missing. People want to connect with those kinds of upwardly mobile, you know, trying to figure it out, girlfriend relationships, friends with, with guys and figuring out relationships. And people are hungry for that. And so when this rewatch show experience, when you called me about that, all along, I was like, let's do a reboot, because I think we still look good. Let's get it on camera while we can. Let's get that checked. I was like, let's do it. So yes, we're having fun. We're reviewing every episode from the start, like we started with episode before zero, before zero, the origin of, of how the show got started. And as inspired by you Michelle Obama, because we said, you know what, we were in a state of becoming. So they need to know not just about these shows, they need to show, we need to show how we became who we are. That's, that's beautiful. That's beautiful. You know, in my opinion, I want to give people a sense, because we have a crop of new listeners who, before we get into the, living single concept for people to know what that was. Like, what was the plot? Why did it have so much? But before we do that, I do want to hear more about you all as, as, as people. And your friendship, it's like, how did you all manage to, how, how did you two become the two? And, you know, it, did it continue from the show? Did you all find each other, reconnect with each other? Did, was there ever a time where you were like that? I don't even know. Yes. You had all day. Oh, five minutes ago. But that's part of friendships, right? And growing and reassessing and, and, and rejiggering how things become. I always say, I admit that immediately when I met Erica, so we met at Living Single. I always say for the record, I like to get it on the record that I knew immediately that this show was going to be a hit. I felt like it would be a hit because the six of us had incredible chemistry. The fun that you feel and see really was very real. And so Table Read, which, you know, is the first time you sit down as a cast and you read the first script, I immediately just was drawn to Erica's way and she's, you know, Erica. She's all your eric anisms, eric anisms. And I was immediately like, oh, in love with, with who I thought that you were would be because you were funny and you were bold. And I immediately was like, yes, that's going to be my friend. Well, Kim is the glue. She has the gift that she can, in any room, make people feel immediately at ease. I can feel that here. Oh, absolutely. Both of you all, but yeah. Thank you. No, she would really make a clown of herself. So people laugh and then everybody to talk to each other and that type of thing. And it is a gift I mean, it's, it's yeah. So she did that for us because, you know, I was coming into space. Now, truth is the show was developed for her and Queen Latifah. So they're coming in with a different type of agency and authority than somebody like me or TC when we're like hired guns and we get, we have to audition, you know, we're sort of, you know, still proving ourselves. They don't have to. And so I was the fourth lead. And I was also the character that Evette Lee Bowser, let's lift her name up. She was the creator of the show had created to represent her. She was wanting to be a lawyer. She wanted to do all of that. She went to Stanford, ended up becoming a writer. And she had in her, in her thing this, you know, really gung-ho a woman who was a world beater and that type. But she was so strong that the network didn't like it. And they put, they said, you have to get rid of it. And she said, no, I can't, you'll get rid of me. And so she put that character across the street. So I was, you couldn't live in the house. You were too strong. She got it. She got it. She got it. She got it. She got it. She got it. She was like, we'll cut across the stick. That's right. And I kept, keep forgetting that Maxine lived across the street. She lived across the street. Couldn't do in the house. It felt like you all, you were all together. Right. Well, she was all the way around. That was the thing. You were always. Of course. But it's, it, it, it, that just reminds me of the, the, it's just amazing what a powerful character that was. And I want to, I want to get to that team aspect of it that you're talking about because. Can I say something about that and about the friendship? So even though you were put across the street and even though the show was created around the two of us, what I'm speaking to, what I really want to call to the, you asked about the friendship. Yes. Is that there was no hierarchy amongst us. So it's not like we walked in going, hello, we have arrived and you and you and you and you. Good luck to all of you. I think this come, Rattery. And I've always said that I came from a show that was highly competitive. So I came from in living color and sketch comedy shows are notorious for being competitive environments. And that's what makes them work. And here I was in an environment that was collaborative and cooperative. And that happened very quickly. And we learned each other's strengths and we learned each other's, you know, I won't even say weaknesses, just like if I throw the ball to her, she's going to catch it, do something different and throw it that way. Like, okay, so we learned that quickly. And I think that helped shape the friendship that helped shape how we fell in love with each other and how we've worked together so, so beautifully. So did that your friendship continue past the show? Was it are you guys always been each other's people? It's tough. Okay. Yeah, let's hear about that. Look, you know, you make these family and really hard friendships, because you're like in a crucible. And you're in a brutal schedule and everybody's feeling the love and all of that. And you know this, I mean, you go away and you go, we're all going to keep in touch. And then we go along our ways. And that's kind of it. We did that to some extent, because that's the life that you choose. That's the life of an artist. You have to keep making a living. Everybody's always all over the place, all over all the time. But we did our best to keep in touch, because we were just very naturally a fit on set. And our mothers are both educators. Our fathers are both pastors, preachers, you know, church of God and Christ Lutheran, yours, what method is became a Episcopal priest at age 60 something. Yeah, really wild. And we got along maybe partly because we argued on set and made up and did some reparative work. So we were kind of more like sisters in that. I just have to say that we did our best to stay in touch and there was always love. But the truth is the unspoken thing about this business is that it does break up and make up families all the time. Yeah. And whatever your best intentions are, you just don't have time. And I've heard you speak about that even with the show and why you got together to do it. So you could spend time with your brother. I can't do that with my family. Can you imagine the craziness that would happen? I think it's smart. Yeah, you guys break the stereotype. There's also this view that women in the business, black women in the business don't get along. I have not found that. That's crazy. Really? I have found that. So I want to add a little, if I may, I love telling the world that she was made of honor at one of my weddings. I love that. You were made of honor. I was made of honor at your wedding. For sure. And neither one of us mattered to either of those men. So I want to make sure I add a little dose of the love rule will remain. That's true. But I will say that there's this stereotype or this rule that women don't get along. And of course, there's competition in theory. There's only one role for that particular character. But every right, but every audition I've ever been on, we don't go on auditions in person as much as we did before COVID. I always felt an energy in the room of like, oh, look who's here. Oh, look, see, there was the time that you could see people and run in. I would always go, see you all at the table read, even though only one of us will make it there. And there's a respect that you have for others that I don't, it's either my job or it's yours. May the best woman win. May the best man win. Yeah, but Kim, that's a level of self-awareness and self-security that a lot of people, not just actors, but all of us, all of us listening don't have. Where does that come from? Is that come from parenting? Good parents. Tell us about it. My dad was, I would call him the king of positive expectations. He walked into a room expecting that he was going to get great. A black man, educated, chosen to educate himself, walked into a room expecting that good things were going to happen. He was charming. He was wise. He was, you know, beloved and just, but not in an entitlement, just like, I'm going to be here and we're going to have a good time and I'm going to, hello, how are you today? That handshake you have. He's a natural optimist. Yes. And my mother also has that same energy of expecting and seeing the good in everyone. I see you. I love you. That's what woo woo woo is. Woo woo woo, Sinclair's catchphrase comes from Bernie's coals. It means I see you. I love you. I acknowledge you. I'm here for you. Is your mom, she was woo woo woo? She's the woo woo woo. Is she woo woo woo at 95? Yes. I love this. It's going to be all right. Yes. So there's that. You say my mother talks weird. Yeah. Yeah. I'm not very similar though. And your mother has woo woo wooed my mother. Your mother's no one. They do. Yes. You know, my mother calls her my precious, my, how's my precious Erica and Sammy and how is Sammy? So anyway, so that's where that comes from. It's a choice. It's a choice. I can go in there on the audition light. Good luck, sucker. Yeah. Or go. May the best woman. Right. Right. That's the choice. That's what's happened. Yeah. Yeah. This segment is brought to you by Colaguard, a noninvasive colon cancer screening test. Mish, what's one simple way that you put your health first in your everyday life? One simple way. There are many ways. Yeah, I guess you're right. One thing that I do is I prioritize my health. So the first thing that I do in, on any day is I get my workout in. What does that entail? Some days it's tennis. What about you? So mine, thanks to you now, my sister sent me some wonderful yoga mats and bolsters. Bolsters that I can do some every day. I stretch every day before I get my day going. And then I try to make sure that I get a walk two to four miles every day. Yeah. Flexibility. I've been hammering with you with that as we get older, we got to keep our ligaments very pliable. So I'm so glad you're doing yoga. I do yoga twice a week. Yen yoga, which is a long, deep stretch. So I prioritize that. But I prioritize sleep. Yeah. I am an early to bed, early to rise person. And probably you as well. I am too. And as I've gotten older, I've realized that when I get a good night's sleep, I have a wonderful next day. So I'm usually in bed by 10 30, maybe 11. Yeah. And then for me, it's diet. We eat pretty healthy. We're not too avid about it, but whenever we're at home, our meals are clean, simple, a meat veggie for me, throwing a carp for a barrac. But diet is everything, especially as I've found that I've gotten older, making sure that it's just clean. Yeah. Yeah. And then of course, you know, I'm coaching two basketball teams. So that gives me some exercise at least four times a week. So I'm really excited about that. And another great way to put your health first is to prioritize getting screened for colon cancer. The American Cancer Society recommends you begin screening at 45. And that's why we're proud to partner with Colaguard. It's an easy to use prescription based colon cancer screening test that's delivered right to your door. So you can collect a sample comfortably at home, all on your own schedule. There's no prep, no invasive procedure, and no more reasons to put off your screening. So if you're 45 or older and at average risk, ask your healthcare provider about screening for colon cancer with the Colaguard test. You can also request a Colaguard prescription today at colaguard.com slash podcast. And Erica, your background a little different. A little different. Yes. I was born in Arizona. Yeah. And were there seven black people there? There were seven black people there. And that's my family. And that's true. And I've been the first my father was a preacher, Church of God in Christ. He later changed to Luther. And my mother was the ministry of music. They were like a tag team. They go around. Church of God in Christ, you know how that is. It's like past the plate. He's itinerant. He has no home, no home church. So he has to go and do revivals. And so I spent the first 11 years of my life in a hotel called Starlight off of Route 66. And I'm one of six. Yeah. Yeah. So there we were doing our thing. And that's where everything comes from. That's my whole point of view in life, that we depended on the kindness of strangers. And so my family out of survival and my mother taught us that if we spoke well, and that we had good manners that people would take care of us. So that's how I came up. He eventually my father was recruited by the Lutheran church. They sent him to the Lutheran Theological Seminary in Philadelphia. I was going to a summer program at Freedom Theater. Freedom Theater was like a place where it was like the new Motown. They were looking to to bring up these city kids and give them a theater background. And you'd appreciate this because we were basically coached our mind into like being telling us that we were young, gifted and black. And we did not have to write not to be good and to you know, and to be the best. And you you haven't earned your tiredness. I mean, they they worked us out. And we also got a little performing arts. And then the movie came to town and they needed black girls to audition. And so they were you. I was 14. I was 14. And my mother always said you take an opportunity where you can. And so that was an opportunity and boom, shaka laka, I go in, I'm second in line. And after many auditions and several screen tests, the dust cleared and it was me. Wow, it was me. To have parents who, you know, have sort of the vision and the courage, right, to allow their kids to be creatives, right? Because if your parents were making sure you weren't ashy and could speak good English, right, just to survive, which there's so much that is said in that truth, right? Because as black kids, as people, kids who are other, you, you would be in danger if you couldn't carry yourself well. Absolutely. You know, and that's not education is an arm hotel. But education and the way you present is an armor because they're assuming the worst of us. Usually, like if you if you don't speak right, then you probably stole that, you know. I was harassed in my home yesterday. Yeah, I was getting, I won't say the name of it. Yeah, I was getting my makeup done. They said, are you here? You know, and I said, why would I be in a room and my partner? What they questioned whether the hotel room was yours? No, the hotel was the space that we were using. I asked permission last night to get in that space. And the next thing you know, to one person comes and I said, I did get permission. And then the person comes, I said, I asked you for permission. Or are you, you know, do you have a room here? And I said, why would I be here if I wasn't? And then when I went back, you know, Ben, my partner said, you know, why didn't you tell him you were going to see Michelle Obama? I said, because I, I, because how dare they shouldn't have to, they should treat everybody. That's right. And I wouldn't give them the satisfaction. And he said, but they would have, and I said, no, it's not about that. I, I did everything right. But the point is that happens all the time. And you have to just pick yourself up and say, I do belong here. And I have the right to be here and explain yourself. There's so many ways to jack up your, you know, your adrenaline and all of that. And I have to say that being educated and calm, I'm doing my best to not, you know, be provoked. That's a defense. It is. And it's a skill. It is. So your parents, a lot of those parents would say, and, and you need to be a lawyer or a doctor or this or that, because you also need that armor as you grow. But you're, both of your parents said, try this. You know, Reverend Dr. Clifford Cole. Until, until he left this, this earth was still expecting me to matriculate at some point. Speak at a college and he would go, Kimberly, this would be a wonderful, they would give you an opportunity to come back. And then yes. So we, my, you know, my situation is that I was the first generation that didn't finish college. So my grandmother went back to get her masters in the fifties in her fifties. So my mother almost has her masters. My dad has his doctorate and all the things. So, you know, they were like, this, this entertainment business is really, really cute. It's really cute. We love telling our neighbors. However, when are we going back to school? So always. Dad, it's the school of life. He's so proud and, and never made me feel as if I was not still loved and appreciated and you're doing a great job. But we're going to, we're going to go back and get that degree. My dad kept trying to send me from computer classes from DeVry. Wow. I just sold that commercial. Thank God. That's what I'm about to talk about. You can do it. Yes. Do you wish you'd had some more skills now? Are you kidding? I wish, are you kidding? I did not end up going to, I got into NYU and I dropped out, you know, legitimately to go to the Royal Shakespeare Company tour. And then that's the house. And my mother said, you know what, if you travel around the world, that's its own education. You're going to do that. And I asked her permission because I knew it would matter to her. But I have to say, just recently, not too long ago, Bennett College, the smallest HBCU in North Carolina gave me a doctorate and my mother was there and she cried and I cried like a baby. Because I knew that she was proud of me. You know how that is. And I'm walking there and I didn't know how much it meant to me to not only satisfy her expectations for me, but what it meant was like, oh, I belong here. Excuse me. And I'll always be grateful. Thank you. I'll always be grateful. Bless you. So when did you both know I want to be an actor? That's what I want to figure out. I was in my 40s. Really? I'm not even lying to you. I got hypnotized. I remember I was in Venice and I went to some hypnotist. I said, let me go and you know, I'm trying out new things. I'm always interested. And they put me under and I thought this or the woman did. And I thought this is not working. I'm totally not under. But I told her, you know, something that was in my mind about going in a basement and there was water and then I went to a closet and all this other stuff. And then I came out of it and I was sitting there and she said something about being an actress. And I go, yeah, okay. She said, well, haven't you been doing it for a long time? And I said, yeah, I guess so. She said, well, you're an actress. And I have to say, I hadn't heard it like that. I got out of there. What did you think you were doing all these years, Erica? Kim will tell you, I was always writing my comeback piece. Yes, she was saying, I'm going to my trailer right now. To write my comeback piece. What do you think you're going to come back from? What I got in my car and I saw it like a baby because I realized I had not accepted my fate. And it needed her. And whatever happened in this hypnotism had unlocked this door. And I cried for 20 minutes straight where I said, you are an actress. Was it Tears of Joy? Were you happy about it? No, it was Tears of Recognition and Worthy. You just maybe suppressed that I couldn't believe. But also, yeah, and maybe my own expectations were not to be an actress, to be a scientist or something much more legitimate. And yet this is my life. And I have to say, stop running for me, accept it. You're here and you're doing well. I mean, it's not easy. But I was made for it. I just thought, here's the thing, you ever see people and they come in and they can play and they can do their thing and they have an innate thing for it. And then they're either nurtured or they take it on or they don't. So I had an innate thing for it. But I didn't think that it was my thing. I just thought, oh, I can do that. I realize now that fate serves you up to destiny. And you have to accept that. But I had not accepted it and I needed to. And so I'm grateful. So that's when I found out when I was 47 years old. And I am grateful that you have because, like this is the thing we do. Like there are these certain roles and positions. There's a certain way to live life. Like, you know, you can have these positions and that means you're important, you're worthy. But you both have impacted so many people's lives. There is a ministry and a deep power that has resonated through decades from the work that you've done. And to not like feel the pride and the importance of that. I'm like, I want that for you because you've done that for so many people. I mean, you're sitting here, both of you, and I feel like I know you. I've known you, right? I mean, little Omi. I mean, you know, can I fall out? Yep. But watching through the work that you do, the acting thing that you've done, the shows you've created, the roles you put out there, you've changed lives. You know? Erica needed a little bit of mom because my mom would have said to you that all of the kids in our neighborhood could have done all of the stuff that we did. We were all talented and gifted. We were all talented. She would have told you, she wouldn't have hypnotized you. Oh, but yeah. She would have told you how talented you are, not just as an actor and actress, but as a person. And it comes out of you in your generosity of your talent. And that's what I can see looking back at living single and then what you've done since. And then what you're doing now, for the industry and for young folks. And you just need to, my mom would have... Your mother didn't just tell me that. Yeah, yeah, yeah. She did. All right, now you're going to get V-Cry. All four of us will be in there, right? Is that what was happening in your household? She just told me. Thank you. Yeah. Well, it's the good enough piece of it, right? Yeah, it's the good enough. I mean, we touched on it. But shoot, the hotel incident this morning, right? Come on. Is the constant reminder to us as people of color, as women, it's the thing your parents taught us that we have to prove that we're good enough. You were in Ivy League schools and you talk about proving yourself. I had to prove to people that my husband and I are still proving that we were legitimate people to run the country, that we were good enough to be the president and the first lady. That psychological thing, that's not in our heads. It's happened. And it continues to happen for sure. How did you ground into that? How did you... Well, like you guys said, it's like you're sort of in the school of believing in yourself. It's like we, our communities, our families, the people who know better, right? They indoctrinate us into this, you are black and proud. You are good enough. That's right. And then it's almost... So you have to replace all those other daily messages, daily slights, daily microacgressions with these positive messages. And somewhere in there is your raw talent. Is the rawness of who you in that motel running around speaking proper English. The Erica and the Kims, the essence of you is always there. Like, and you know that when you're a kid. And we were fortunate to have parents who poured into us that we could do whatever we wanted to do. And it's still hard. Mm-hmm. You're still out. But it's funny, there's this level of... And people use the term imposter syndrome. And I don't think it's imposter syndrome. That's not what I'm feeling. It's more of a... You just got to prove myself. Always, every day. You never know. Year after year. And my mom would be like, you shouldn't be worried about what people think. But you worry about what people think. I'm glad you said it's not imposter syndrome. Because I always felt like I don't feel like an imposter. But I just don't know if people have shaped what that is. Yeah. Yeah, we may have to do another show. Yeah, you got to. You got to. There's a lot of people talking about that. Now, I've always said that real imposters don't have that syndrome. We all know a whole lot of imposters don't have any doubt whatsoever. And they got it going on. It's like it's not the imposters who have that problem. So why should we doubt? Because life does what life does. It's just a little reminder of maybe you don't really belong here. Maybe you're not good enough. Well, we also don't give ourselves permission to have joy. You start with my mom. Now, she had a rough, right? Because that's also where we are. As hard as we may have it. Come on. You know, as Black folks, we have it better. And the generations have always improved, even though we still have a long way to go. But it makes it difficult to enjoy it, right? You feel like have we earned the claim? Is it now enough? Is it now enough? Is it enough? My gosh. And this is part of what I've been trying to unravel. When is it enough? When can I sort of rest a little bit at, you know, not just as me, but as a 60-year-old woman? When can I finally look and go, I have done a lot, and I've done enough. I mean, that doesn't mean I'm stopping, but I have really done enough. And when, if not now, am I going to be able to look on my accomplishments and say, good job. And maybe those are the tears. The tears are like, Erica, good freaking job. Good job. Good job. Good job. And you didn't need the PhD to do it, but there's no ceremony for that. None. Like there's no walking across the aisle of congratulations. Right. You are a wonderful human being. Right. A woman in the world who's done something powerful. Thank you. Thank you. And I think that brings tears, the tears of relief that maybe I'm, maybe it's enough. It's enough. The pride of it too, because we're always told, be humble. The pride of it, be humble. That's what I hear in you, humility. Humility to the ground. That's right. You know? Yeah. And yet we come from also people from Muhammad Ali on that had to say who they were and tell them the world that they were great. You know, the rappers, they come out with, you know, you coach, you gotta, your mindset is everything. You got to be the first one. Confidence. Yes. Black women and often we're not told that. Oh, and when we do it, then we'll be in uppity. Who should think it is? We'll be in bossy. Who? We're being a problem. Yeah. We're being, we're complicated. Yes. Yes. Difficult. Difficult. I've been told that several times and I always, it hurts my heart. I'm like, really? I said, well, after a while I was like, well, I guess I am. Yeah. Is it difficult or is it commanding respect? Is it difficult or is it about having boundaries or I like to call them peaceful perimeters? Peaceful perimeters? A peaceful perimeter, because boundaries sounds like war. Sounds like a new underwear. I'm doing everything out. Peaceful perimeters says this is what I will allow in and you're not welcome here. Off you go. That's your girdle. I'm going, yeah. Yeah. What? Your girdle is a perimeter. Sometimes it is not peaceful at all. It's not peaceful at all. It's evil. You all know how much I love staying in Airbnb's. I just got to DC and I found yet another one. It's right smack dab in the middle of Georgetown and the best feature about this place is the rooftop patio. I mean, you get fantastic views of Georgetown and what else I like about this location? It is walkable to a bunch of places. I ate dinner in Georgetown, was able to walk home. I can walk and get coffee first thing in the morning and it's really close to where we're recording. And like most Airbnb's, it has all of the comforts of home. Kitchen, laundry, and especially during these hot days, it's got air conditioning. Don't tell anybody, but I've made use of the hot tub. Airbnb makes it super easy to find what I'm looking for. So next time you're booking a trip, be like me and book an Airbnb. This episode of IMO is brought to you by Progressive Insurance, who help people move forward and live fully. Owning a home can be one of the most powerful ways to build financial security, but for many, especially first generation buyers, it can feel out of reach. That's why I appreciate what Progressive is doing. In 2024, they contributed over $7 million to help individuals and families break the cycle of renting by providing support, offering educational resources, and developing tools to build long-term financial stability through home ownership. Their work goes beyond just insurance. They're opening doors. Through their newly created up payment program, Progressive is helping first generation home buyers move closer to the dream of home ownership by offering eligible applicants a chance to receive a down payment assistance grant. You know, owning a home for me made me feel grounded and also set me up for the future. And as a coach, when your life is dependent on wins and losses, it's really important to have the comfort of a really nice home to come home to, especially for your family. Home ownership is one of the biggest investments you'll ever make, and Progressive wants to help more people take that life-changing step. Learn more today at progressive.com slash open the house. This episode of IMO is brought to you by Colaguard, a non-invasive colon cancer screening test. Currently, the American Cancer Society recommends that if you are at average risk, you should begin screening for colon cancer at age 45. There are an estimated 60 million adults age 45 plus in America who are not up to date with their colon cancer screening. So we need to change that by spreading the word about another option. The Colaguard test can help you put your health first and feel more in control of your colon cancer screening process. This easy to use screening test is delivered right to your door and allows you to collect the sample comfortably at home on your own schedule. The sample is shipped back to the lab for testing and results are available within 8 to 10 days. It's simple, but the best part about the Colaguard test is that it allows you to start screening for colon cancer without all the hassle of preparing for a colonoscopy. So you don't have to prep the day before, and by prep you know I mean fasting and drinking all that liquid. You get to skip the stress of having to request off work, go under anesthesia, get a ride home, and all the other hassles that come with an invasive procedure. And in addition to its convenience, Colaguard is also affordable. Most insured patients find they pay nothing out of pocket. With zero downtime, no special preparation, and a screening test that's delivered right to your door, let's start prioritizing our health. So if you're 45 or older and at average risk, ask your health care provider about screening for colon cancer with the Colaguard test. You can also request the Colaguard prescription today at colaguard.com slash podcast. The Colaguard test is intended to screen adults 45 and older at average risk for colorectal cancer. Do not use a Colaguard test if you have had adenomas, have inflammatory bowel disease and certain hereditary syndromes, or a personal or family history of colorectal cancer. The Colaguard test is not a replacement for a colonoscopy in high-risk patients. Colaguard test performance in adults ages 45 to 49 is estimated based on a large clinical study of patients 50 and older. False positives and false negatives can occur. Colaguard is available by prescription only. Erica, we were not ready for your answer. That was unappreciated. So, but I want to hear from Kim. What now? I want to hear when did you feel like you were going to be an entertainer because you know stand-up comedy, it's hard. Yeah, well like what makes you say I'm gonna get on stage and I'm gonna be funny to all y'all. I think I'm funny but I don't think we're funny. No, we all think we're funny but we don't all think we could stand up in front of people and be funny. Really, it started for me in high school. Okay. I didn't know what I was building but I was building. So, I was the chubby girl and going into high school I was you know 14 I was clear. I was like the fat girl in high school doesn't always fare so well. You get teased and you're weird, you know chubby whatever that is. And so I thought I know what I'll do. If I make them laugh with me instead of at me then nobody will ever call me fat because I've already told the jokes, I've already made them laugh and I've already deflected, now I call it a peaceful perimeter, I've already said don't look at this, look at this. And comedy is actually a connector. Yes. And I know that now from standing on stage and watching an audience there's nothing more thrilling for me and I don't do stand-up as much as I used to. I've now morphed into being a speaker and I still use some of those same things as a speaker. There's a connection that happens the audience is connecting to you because they're laughing or listening and often audience members turn to each other and laugh and there's a way of connection. And so I was avoiding being called the chubby girl but what I was really doing was creating a connection. So years later when I dropped in and out of college about three times 1985 was the first time I stepped on a stage and tried this thing about writing my little jokes and and performing because I felt that that connection. You guys picked a hard industry. Yeah, for sure. And I want to talk a little bit about that because you were number one, your Shakespearean abilities, you showed the ability to work in a team in an ensemble, you showed the comedy, you showed the drama, you showed the and you lasted. Tell us and and then what and and then what? Tell us about the second generation of television. Yeah. Officially. We were number one. You were about to say. We're number one in African-American households for all five seasons. You always remind me that we were number one in Latino households. Not to mention, I always tell the story of the little Jewish man in the bank who grabbed my arm like I love you girls, you girls are so beautiful. I love you girls. I love the queen. Give the queen my best. So lots of people loved us, although we were relegated and segregated. Yeah. And yet something happened that I think was intentional or not. It happened. Everything changed and they started to create different cable networks that had to build their audience. We were already on one, which was the Fox channel and we helped build that network. Literally. Tisha Campbell, Sheena, all of them, Martin, living color, living single, all of that. Was it a Jamie Foxx show? Was he on? Everything started to shift and place shows with black cast. Now, Kim, you'll say black shows and I don't say that. I say shows with black cast in those spaces. Not for nothing. You could certainly see everything sort of bleed off the page. And there's a problem with that because that means that we're not getting in the mainstream anymore. We're not giving the opportunity to marketing and sponsorship that that can afford. And so you're also the value goes down. So when I was growing up, when we're all growing up, Jefferson's, what's happening, all of that was run. You'd see Mass, you'd see the Jefferson's, you see blah, blah, blah. No one ever called the Jefferson's a black show. You just called it Jefferson. He certainly didn't call the Cosby show a black show. It was a show. Suddenly we were black shows and that went away. And I think it messed up everything in terms of momentum because we had the huge form of momentum. Again, with Fresh Prince, Family Matters, all of these things. So what happened was everything changed. And if you don't have anybody funding these things, then you're in trouble. But when you say everything changed, usually when their success begins success, especially in Hollywood, well, what exactly changed? Was it the executives? Was it cultural? Was it political? Was it too much success? There you go. Too much success. It's not the first time that that's happened. That there's too much success. And then suddenly somebody pulls the rug out underneath. So just around 2000, things shifted. And I remember somebody telling me a memo, but they wanted things lighter and brighter. And that meant the end of us. Now, was it the money? I mean, with the more success, were you negotiating as a cast for more? For more? No, we didn't even know to do that. And there's no way. We were always in the black. There was no way that we could be too much money for the budgets they gave us. We were always operating the black. We were very successful in syndication from the get go. It was just, it was just... I don't understand, because we had a new network president come in and then decided to just change the complexion of the network. And it didn't work. It didn't work. You've now lost the audience. You've lost this audience that you've built up that's built trust. Like this is where I come if I want this kind of show. And it just... And we didn't go away altogether, but it was... The rug was pulled out. Misha and I talked about... We talked about this a little bit beforehand, because right after you all show, Friends comes out. So the year after us. It's like, come on. Yes. And what we talked about is the opportunities for another successful show like that for the folks who ended that one. Oh, they went on to do a really different... And their salaries were... So I think it would be nice for our listeners to hear your thoughts on that, because I think I know what they are, but it's noticeable for me from the outside looking in, right? Noticable for everyone. And as good as Friends could have been, I had like a... I felt a certain way, so I didn't watch it because of your show. Oh, wow. Craig, it's true to this. It's true to this. Ain't new to this. Thank you. You're welcome. It's true that often Black people in performing arts start things, whether it's from Elvis Presley on, that are imitations of other things. And that's certainly what happened there. It just happened to be that we were at the same production company. Production company Warner Brothers, right? And so it was quite obvious. It's what happens all the time. The problem is that you could also see the type of investment they were making versus what they were making with us. And that to me is the frustrating thing that is systemic and we fight all over. People think, because you're in showbiz, that you are spoiled and you're getting all of these things. And one of the things that we did the podcast for is we wanted people to know us as people to sort of see us as people who were inside of a corporate structure. And if that corporate structure exists in America, it is probably built on the same flawed foundation that all these structures, I mean, industries are built on. We talk about people not funding a Black woman. Less than 1% of venture capital goes into Black women's business. Well, even at Lee Bowsard, Black women's business. We are Black. I mean, you have an agent and a manager and you have a thing. You're a small business. So am I. That's what we're getting in a way. Sure, we're the lucky ones and it looks fortunate, but we have this same yeah. And it's hard to talk about when I say it's hard to talk about because what happens is people end up going, hey, you're lucky and this and this and that. I said, I didn't say that we weren't fortunate. I'm saying that the downward pressure of wages is real everywhere. And so if you want to talk about it outside of being famous, then you can. But just because I'm famous, don't make it less true. And so we do have an issue. It's true. Well, Hollywood is a subjective business. We now have a production company. We're getting a taste of it. But there are decision makers, right? And people tend to make decisions around whether they think they're expert or not. It's based on their taste. Oh, for sure. And it's hard to convince some of these heads and the greenlighters to understand that they have an inherent bias to pick things that they like. Which is why you want diversity in these seats of power because yes, you're a white guy. You like sports and you like women that look a certain way or maybe you think this is funny. That's just one perspective. But I as a black woman, as a woman who's seen this or that, I can tell you that this is interesting. And there's a whole pool of people that will pay money. You can make money off of these people. But in the end, who's going to, who makes the decision? The person in charge who decides ultimately, am I going to go with your opinion or with mine? And if when you're in charge, you'd go with your opinion. And I see that happening time and time again at all, you know, in all industries, in all sectors. And their opinion is going to bankrupt the industry because you're the future. There's no doubt about it. Yeah, they don't speak to a whole market. I had that challenge even with my book, Writing Becoming. Great publishers, supportive. My book tour was my idea. It wasn't like the publishers said, you know what, you could go on a 32 city book tour. I was like, well, you know, there are a lot of people out there who are interested in the story and the conversation. I said, I bet we could do something bigger than that. Right. And so we had this huge book tour that nobody had ever done before. Because guess what? I don't know that a lot of people in the industry realized there were that many women and women of color who had that kind of disposable income. There you go. There you go. Many, there were people, I was in Denmark and there were like, there was a group of sisters from Detroit in the VIP line. My first thing was like, Danish, Danish, Danish sisters. And my whole thing was like, what are y'all doing here? And they were like, girl, we wanted to meet you. The tickets in Detroit were sold out. Wow. We saved up. We bought money. Of course. They came to Denmark. Detroit to Denmark. To be in the VIP. I said, well, what else are you doing in Denmark? They were like, we don't know. Right. But we came to see you and then we'll see you at summer Denmark. And I was like, you all go. But if that's happening for Michelle Obama, but this is the thing that after that, that's nuts. Then what was the next big book tour? What was the next the audience is there? And this is what you try to convince the decision makers. It's like, wow, you don't know me. You don't know my audience. But if you're the decision maker and it's not your data, that means they don't have the vision. No, it's not their experience. They don't even believe like it's the same thing that makes you cry. Because sometimes you just feel like you just don't see me. Right. You don't see me no matter what I do. Right. You still don't see me. And it's because and I'm not it's not because you don't want to and you can't say that to folks because they feel like, no, that's not who I am. And it's like it is not who you are, but it's not who you are in your heart, but it's but your experiences have made it impossible for you to understand that you really are only seeing the things that you believe. So I'm asking you, I'm asking us what happens to to get visionaries in those visionaries or people who will take the risk because it's not going to risk you. You've proven it. Wakanda proved it. Homeboy sinners proved it. Like we prove it over and over and over again. So what does it take to find the visionaries in those places who will say yes, who will green light something who will keep taking that and it ain't a risk and it ain't a chance. You need diversity. The bad word of the decade. We call it DEI. It's been castigated. It's been demonized, but it's essentially just saying that you just need a lot of different people in the rooms in decision making rooms, not out of some favor, but as a business strategy. It's like it's just you would rather miss money. Right. That you know, like that you just said though. Yeah, everybody used to always say, oh, never, they always get their money. Their money. I said, that's actually not necessarily true. You leave billions of dollars on the table that can do good for people or believing that a movie won't play overseas. Yeah, that's right. Of course it will. We've proven it. The data is there. But that's why diversity matters. It just we just all have different experiences. That's all. That's all it is. It's just we have different tastes and there's money to be made in all of it. But if the taste makers look a certain way, then the shows tend that get promoted, that get marketed, that get the opportunity. You know, that's where the money goes. To me, this is Jurassic age. It's falling apart. It's meant to it can't go on. I mean, I love Reverend Barber. I quote him all the time. Your friend, Reverend Barber, calls this the third reconstruction. And so if it is, that means these foundations have to be redone. And we are architects of the third reconstruction. They're already palimpsests. There's new investors and new people. There's Core Jefferson, American Fiction. There's Jordan Peele, who's doing, you know, get out. There's Alicia Harris. Amazing. I just did a film with her. Is God is? They are not playing. I needed them to come and find me and say, invite me to play. Not even have me audition. Say, I know what she can do. I know she can do this role. And then come on, let's do it. Tell us about the lives you've created for yourselves in the midst of rejection and waiting and all of this, because you both are standing up back straight looking good. So you figured something out. Right? Yes, we are. And with a lot of good hair. I want to go in. What's that you started? Why don't you keep going? Yeah, after Living Single ended, and I went into a depression because there wasn't work, wasn't working, hadn't quite figured out what else I could do, audition here and there, not getting anything. And sometimes you reach a certain level and they go, well, she wouldn't take this job. I might have, or whatever that is. And so going into this space of what else can I do, what else? Because I don't know how to type. I can't cook. I can't sing. Didn't go to DeVry. And didn't go to DeVry. Take them computer classes. Adopting out of college 100 times. I don't know that I can make a living doing this. And so I moved over. It's like taking your gifts and talents and skills and going like, where else can they be placed? So if I'm a stand-up comedian, I can be a speaker. And so I immersed myself into what it means to become a speaker on stage, an impactful speaker, deciding what type of speaking I would do, taking some of my comedy bits and working them into inspiration so that I'm inspiring. And then eventually learning that I really wanted to help people transform their lives. And not just rah rah, or which is nothing wrong that or being encouraging or engaging, but to also go like, what can we do to transform our thinking, our mindset, our soul, our soul and the work. So you're an educator. My mother wanted me to be a teacher. I was like, I don't want to be a teacher. And then I became a teacher. So that's what I've been doing. And that's why there's a, hopefully you feel a groundedness. I go like, it's not, I'm sorry that these other things, while I can fight the powers that be, I can also be the power of my own choosing. Right? So that's what I'm doing, what I'm doing for now. Color Farm Media. That's my company. I started it 10 years ago with my partner Ben Arnon. We met at the 2008 DNC Convention. He was a delegate for your husband, Mr. Obama. And I was a delegate for Hillary. I was Hillary Clinton's most traveled circuit. The other side. The other side. I was wondering if you were going to come out and tell us. The other side. It's how we like that. That's her. You know, the fun thing, it made me a better voter all over to understand it, you know, how it happens. And up until that point, I hadn't. What made you get involved in politics? I mean, like people run, okay. Poverty. Say that a little bit like poverty. Poverty. You talk about hard times. It's real. Anyway, we started the company. We get a call from John Lewis's office. We heard that you have a production company. Would you like to do a documentary on the congressmen? I said, I'd sweep his floors. I don't care what he needs me to do. And through that avenue came our first opportunity as a company. John Lewis could trouble. And then after that, we did a documentary about reparations. Evanston, Illinois, with Alderwoman, Robin Ruth Simmons, and Sheila Jackson-Lee with HR40, and all these things. And it just kept pushing us in places where I thought, look, this is not only opportunity, but we're telling history. We're getting an opportunity to do that. But I think ultimately we're starting to realize that this world may not change as fast as we need to, and we need to find a different avenue. And we're seeking other borders. Well, and, you know, I'd listen to that. And I think, well, maybe that's also where the tears are coming from, because it's like to go from the power that your characters and living single had in the world. And I remember I heard in an interview that you were like, well, I was Maxine Shaw, but I wasn't a lawyer. I didn't go to law school. But you all were showing so many of us, because I was a lawyer at the time. By the time I don't know it, we're very much so. And living single was out. I was like a first, second year associated at a corporate law firm. So I was living there. You were also a dean, too. I was an associate dean at the University of Chicago when that was going on. So there were, we didn't need to lift your sights, but you know, for others. But making us visible. Yeah, because that character hadn't existed before. We had Felicia Versace, but not in a comedy in this kind of, you know. And it was a different strength. And her becoming. Yeah, it was definitely a different strength. I mean, you were single. You were sexual. You were, you know, you were brash. You were annoying. You were, you know, always that. Right now. Unapologetic. Black women had to be nice or kind. Maxine was like, unapologetic. Which was reflective of what a lot of us had to be in order to be in those spaces. And you were changing lives then. And both of you all are still doing that today. And have managed to maintain yourselves and your presence and still think creatively and powerfully about how to be impactful in the world. This episode of IMO is brought to you in part by Acorns. You know, one of the most valuable pieces of money advice I've ever gotten is that financial wellness isn't about how much you make. It's about making the most of what you have. That's something I've carried with me from my time on Wall Street to today. And that's why I love Acorns. Acorns is a financial wellness app that makes it easy to start saving and investing for your future. You don't need to be rich. Acorns lets you get started with the spare money you've got right now, even if all you've got is spare change. You don't need to be an expert. 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View important disclosures at acorns.com slash imo. This episode of IMO is brought to you by Indeed. And you know, one skill that has helped me over my years is adaptability. You know, I started out as a college basketball player and was fortunate enough to get drafted. And I went to try out, got cut, had to make a pivot. I went from being at an NBA camp to an overseas camp. And I played over there for a couple of years and then came back to the United States and made another pivot. And I got into the investment business, which was a brand new experience for me. So I had to be adaptable. And I went from there back to business school, and I had to be adaptable yet again, and be back into learning mode. And subsequently, after spending 14 years in the investment industry, I came back to basketball as a coach. And it's really important that I let myself learn, continue to learn, be adaptable, and be willing to pivot. Being open to change helped me explore roles I hadn't really originally planned for, which made my career richer and more fulfilling. Indeed helps people do the same by identifying their existing skills and connecting them to new opportunities. Through Indeed, people can find better work that fits their skills, even if it means shifting career paths or trying something new. Just like my own adaptability has opened doors for me, Indeed's mission is to empower everyone to leverage their skills for better work. Whether adaptability is a skill you have or not, Indeed can help connect the skills you have to new opportunities. When people feel confident in their skills and open to change, the world truly can work better. Well, speaking of being impactful, IMO is all about having our listeners submit a question. And we have a question from a listener that I think would be ideal for the two of you to help us answer. And it comes from Amanda in Tucson, Arizona. Hi, I'm Amanda. Thank you so much for taking my question. As a woman in my mid 40s, okay, I'm 45. I'm struggling with the concept of time. I want to do so much in this world, but it feels like time is flying by. And unfortunately, you can't just snap your fingers and have all your dreams come true. So how do you handle this nagging feeling that you're running out of time and that your life might not mean as much as you wanted to? Similarly, how do you know that you're doing enough that you're making enough of a difference while you're here? Thank you. I love you both. It's almost as if she was sitting right there. True. We're going to need a cop down for this. Rewind this episode and existential dread. It has throughout your life, you're going to have it, I believe. And I also believe that as a story in my as a character, my own story, I keep feeling that I am coming of age all the time. I hear you waiting to grow up. Yeah, like, yeah, this is this is it. They make story after story after people who come to this thing and realize, wait a minute, I got to get it. I can feel that tick, tick, tick, tick, tick. And if I don't, I won't be able, I mean, I won't be able, I'll regret too much. And I think that for me, I see that in every and so many stories, like everything, all at once, everything, everywhere at once, you see that death of death of a salesman, he's sitting up there and wondering, what did I do with my life? So I'd like to say to Amanda, you're right where you need to be if you're there, because that means that if you're thinking that way, that you must be making an impact. People who don't make impact don't think that way. And so I'm hoping that you're looking at the ways that you might have made impact. And I do believe that in a way you are right, times passing by, you're probably doing better than you think. Diddo. So many things that you touched on, same things I would say. First of all, I think it's a noble question. I think there's a nobility and a courage in even asking that, how do I know? I think she says she has a nagging feeling, how do you know that this is enough? And I think also because she's asking that question means that there is more to be experienced. She's willing and allowing something to come through. And I always say that everything you want wants you back. Ooh. Everything you want wants you back. Because she wants it, it wants her to fulfill, to step into it. And I think a lot of times the things that we want, we're so busy, like living life and trying to keep up and looking at other folks that we don't even stop to notice those things that have already mattered to us, already been meaningful, already been impactful. So instead of looking all out there to look within, so slow down and look in and get quiet and go like, what do I really want to do? What happens when I show up and do this and this and this? What is the impact on people and how can I just keep doing more of that? It may not even be something new. It's something that she's obviously already doing. And I always call it the sort of the pebble in the pond. We think that has to be a big impact. The pebble creates all those ripples. So allow yourself to be that pebble in the pond. And the impact sometimes, you talked about fame and being famous and people think that they want that. But I think what people really want is to be significant and to be meaningful. And sometimes it's your kids that are watching. It's your nieces and nephews that are watching. And the impact that you've created for them is enough to create more of the ripple. And so she may not stand on stages like we all have, but she's created an impact knowing that I said a word to someone and that made them think differently and then they wouldn't change their life. And just to allow that to allow is my word. Just allow it to unfold. You want to add a brief thing in there because I'm just... You got some bringing it home. No, no, no, I'm summing it up. So know that you're enough. You know that you're enough. That's one thing. And this one's really good that I'm going to take away is slow down to speed up because that... We use that on the court. We use that on the court. Slow down to speed up. Don't you have to train and stretch the muscle and get it ready so that then you can sprint or... Or go fast to go slow and go slow to go fast. It's just change your pace and realize that there's some positivity there. And then the final thing you said, Kim, was a little is really a lot. A little can be a lot. It can be a lot. If you're fortunate enough to be able to do something great, beautiful, but that doesn't mean that if you do something little, it's insignificant. For sure. Yeah. Thank you. Some of the moments I remember most as First Lady, it wasn't the cover of a magazine or the speech that I gave. It was usually a conversation that I had in a photo line with a kid that was shy that nobody saw. And that you could, with a hug and a couple of words and a... Like, I see you. You see them walk to you one way and walk away a totally different person. You could see it. And it would be like, if I could do that every day and nobody's looking, those were the... That's when I felt like I had an impact. Sounds to me like you're talking about doing less but being more. Yeah. Yeah. Well, you know what's been impactful? Having the two of you here. Okay. Oh, right now. Wait, but before... My brother's in the always wrap up mode, but I do want to find out... What are y'all doing? What is your birthday? I know she's a camera crew. What are you... It's April 21st. Oh, you're a... Taurus. He's a tourist. I'm with the Taurus. Yeah. I get it. Like, come on. All right, all this talking now. I know, right. And there's a time limit and we have other things to do. We don't want to overuse your time. But I do want to know, what are y'all... Boss. What are you reading, watching now? Reality TV? Is sci-fi a thing for you guys? What's your guilty cultural pleasure? I'm not trying to kiss the ring, but later date, I love that show. Aspirational. Right. Aspirational in there. The women are beautiful. The guys got their, you know, hookups and I love that show. So I don't watch a lot of the more, what I would call more, the negative... Because I've done enough reality shows to know that it's nothing real about it. It's orchestrated, structured, and waiting for you to have certain reactions. I know. He's looking at me. I've done a few. I've done a few. I was like, you know, you live in a house for two weeks with Dennis Rodman. The surreal life. The surreal life. Also a Taurus, by the way. He's the sweetest man. Oh, he's darling. He's a doll, baby. But anyway, so not that, but later daters. Love it. Are you doing more seasons since I'm here? We're working on one. It's up to the powers that be. Yeah, right. I just got to come through. So I just work so much. I wish I could say... Say here. I've gotten a chance to see centers four, five times. Oh, yeah. Yeah. And I'm like that. Like I went to go see MJ eight times. Like I'll see something over and over again as if you could digest it and become it. But no, I have to do more to like just pay attention. I'd like to read more. This has been a real treat. Thank you so much. What a delight. A real treat. Just a dream of a lifetime and frankly, so grateful for all the work that you do in the world. And more importantly, putting something like this out so we can meet you in this way is huge. It kind of lifts the veil. And that's beautiful. It's been a thank you. An honor, a delight. Revealing easy. Yeah. And just kind of what I expected would happen. So siblings can get along and also discover things about each other they didn't know, which is freaky. You know, love that. You know. Well, it's so proud of you. And that you can get along well enough to want to play in this game. Can you imagine? Good enough. Good enough. I could do this with my brother. But just show it again. It can happen. It can. So kids are, you know, goals. Right. And just the pep-a-pah. It's happening right now. It's happening right now. Well, we're proud of you all, you two. Thank you. And the entire cast, so please send it. They won't give you. Thank you. Everyone, our love, congratulations on all the ways that you both are becoming continuing to become. It has been a treat. Y'all are some funny, smart women. And more to come. Just keep doing some stuff. We'll do this again. Let's. Oh. Let's. Let's. Let's. With different hair next time. All different hair. I want to take a zoom.