SC EP:1180 The Caveman On The Property

It looked like somebody was bent over and had their head in the window of the deer blind. And it either heard me or smelt me. And he pulled his head out of the tent and stood straight up and that that shocked me. They don't make people that that big. The way it moved. Almost as if it was gliding across the beach. I've never seen anything move like that in my life. They were screaming at each other in gibberish. It sounded like a language and they were chunting away back and forth, back and forwards, back and forwards. I know what a bear looks like and there is no way on this planet to what I saw with bears. 911, what are you reporting? Jesus Christ, you better. Sheriff? See ya. Hello? Get somebody out here. What's going on now, sir? That son of a bitch is about six foot nine, I don't know. Do you see him now, sir? Yes, I'm looking right at him. This is Alicia from Kenesaw, Georgia and you're listening to the best podcast on the planet, Sasquatch Chronicles. Welcome to the show, everyone. Thanks for being here tonight. Got a great show planned for you. I have the pleasure of speaking with Dean tonight, who comes to us from Oklahoma. And Dean's going to be sharing with us what it was like to grow up over the last 50 years on this property. And the first time he actually saw the creature, he was a little boy and I'll kind of let Dean go into it. If you've had an encounter and you'd like to be on the show, shoot me an email. My email address is Wes at Sasquatch Chronicles.com. And if you get a chance, check out Sasquatch Chronicles.com. You can become a member and get additional information about Sasquatch Chronicles. Let's jump into it tonight. I want to welcome Dean to the show. Dean, thanks for coming on. You're welcome. Thank you again for being here and we're going to talk about a lot of different things tonight. But let's kind of start from the very beginning. If you would tell me about this property and kind of walk me into what happened the first time that you saw it. You know, I was unsure of exactly when it happened. I knew it was right before my parents divorced. But when I was 35, I actually brought the day up to my mother and father who were still alive then and ask them if they remember that day. And they did. Talking it out, we deduced it was in October or early November, right before they separated of 1975. And I was going to school up here in Antlers, Oklahoma. I rode a school bus out about five miles west of town where we leased a house from an old bootleger. And he had a store here on Highway three and a little community called Darwin and he had three rent homes on it. And we released some one of them. And we had a store here on Highway three and a little community called Darwin. And we released some one of them. And anyway, we're coming home from school being my brother riding the bus. I had a sister, but she was real little at the time. And when we got home from school, my dad was an avid hunter and a fisherman and he had bird dogs. And our job was to take care of those dogs as soon as we got off that bus. We went out to their pins and buying this rent home and watered and fed and cleaned up their pin. And my brother went back in the house and a hundred yards behind this rent home, there was a giant cyclone fence. And circle this wooded property. And we were told not to go back there. But I had dug me away underneath that fence and I used to go back and play in those woods. It was just something to do, you know, there was nothing else to do out here. Basically go fishing, had a little pond next to the property there. Used to fish in. Anyway, I had a half walker hound, half beagle dog is what we had that ran loose. You know, he was kind of our pet. He wasn't a hunting dog. Anyway, he was always with us. He was outside. So he was with me and he'd crawl under with me and we'd run around those woods. And so when my brother went in, I decided I want to crawl under that fence and go back and play in the woods. I probably got a hundred yards into the woods behind the house. No farther than that probably. But we're going along dogs out in front of me. I'm just kind of watching the dog probably 10, 15 feet behind it. And all of a sudden this dog was a, he was such a good hunting dog. People and family and friends used to come borrowing, you know, so he was used to the woods and wild animals. Anyway, he turned, yelped, turned and ran by me just as fast as he could. And so I'm watching him and as he ran by me, I'm looking at him and he's heading back toward the house. You know, fast as he could go, I'd never seen him act like that. And when I turned and looked back to where he had come from, standing probably 20 to 25 feet in front of me and a little open in the trees there, stood, for lack of a better description, a gigantic, hairy, humanoid of some kind. You know, as a seven and a half year old boy, it was a monster to me, you know, is what it was. And I never heard it. I don't know where it came from. I never heard it. But all of that can figures the dog when it became aware it was there, the dog, I tell it. But when I, when I turned back around and saw it, I was frozen. I could not move, you know, every instinct in my body. I wanted to scream, holler and run, but I was frozen with fear. First time I'd ever been that way, but the guy, I'll call it a guy because it was some type of an ancient prehistoric type man. There's only way I can describe it a caveman, if you will. And I'm looking up at it, you know, because it's, it's huge. You know, I don't, I've never stood next to another human being that even comes close to what this, how big this thing was. But I'm kind of frozen on its face and my top of my head probably come between its knees and its waist if I was guessing, you know. So I'm locked looking up just frozen. And it's just looking at me and I can't move. I can't holler and it's not moving. It's not making a noise. And if you've ever seen an old dog when he'll lock in and something he's curious about, he'll tilt his head and this thing did that. Looking at me tilted its head sideways, you know, as it stood there just standing there with his arms down the side and tilted his head and showed me its teeth. And I swear it was, you know, over the last, which is fixed to be 50 years since this happened. I thought about it and I think it was smiling at me. I really do, you know. It just showed its teeth and tilted its head and stared at me. And I couldn't, I couldn't, you know, I couldn't do anything if I wanted to. I was just frozen. And it looked at me for, you know, it seemed like an eternity when you're that afraid at, you know, time. It seemed like it took forever, but it probably, I thought about a lot, is probably guessing maybe 40 to 50 seconds. It stood there in front of me, just looked at me and just took a step to the right. And when he behind this big, what I know now to be a cedar tree, big fluffy green tree, and that's where it had come from. You know, I guess it stepped out from behind that tree. That's why I didn't see it when we come up on it and the dog didn't either. And, but the dog was out in front when it came around to the side of the tree. I guess the dog seen it or, you know, whatever knew it was there and took off, but I never did just stepped out and then it stepped behind the tree. And when it stepped down the tree, all of a sudden I could move and I immediately turned and headed toward the house as fast as I could run. But like I said, after something like that happens, I don't know how to explain it, but my legs didn't seem to want to work. You know, I guess maybe I was in shock. I don't know. But I crawled back into the fence, get to the house, run in and tell my mom she was in the kitchen. My dad wasn't there. I guess my brother was in our room. I don't know where he was at. But anyway, all she said was, you know, you're supposed to be back there, you know, and kind of what me. She said, I'll tell your dad, you know, you know, he'll look in and I knew that for sure. So I didn't want her to tell him. So I just go outside and I get to thinking, you know, where's my dog? Where's Sambo? That dog had, he was headed for the house when he took off from this thing. He was underneath the house and I couldn't get him to come out. It's an old, set up on an old three center block foundation. The old house did. And it, you know, it had the openings in the center blocks and he'd got into there and I could not get him out. He would not come out. I've seen him on there. He just lay in flat to the ground. I don't know when he finally did come out, but he never did before dark. So I go in and I sit there for a while and the porous is trying to comprehend, you know, what I've seen and I'd walk to the edge of the house and look, make sure this thing wouldn't come and, you know, follow me. And, uh, I go in and tell my brother and I guess him and my mom just thought it was a hunter or something back there. What I didn't know then was it was the woods that I only knew right there by the house was actually 2400 acres altogether at that time. I found out years later, but, uh, so nothing was more was said, you know, and anyway, came our bedtime. I'm a guest, probably nine, nine, 30, we're in bed and then my brother slept in a room together and a little army Cox little single army Cox is what we had mine was across the room. We had a room for a window about 12 feet from a window. We had one window in the little room. It probably wasn't 12 by 14 the room, but, uh, I'm laying there on my left side, looking at this window on the south side of the house, you know, just kind of laying there. Couldn't go to sleep after what had happened. You know, I'm still thinking about it. And from the top left corner of that window appeared the face that I had seen earlier in the woods. And it was either the same one or it has the twin. It looked identical and it's staring at me through the window. And once again, when I saw it, I couldn't move. You know, I just was frozen with fear again. My brother's feet were at the window. He was on the south wall, his bed, his feet were at the window. And the end of his head was in the corner of the room. So he couldn't see out the window. He was still awake. But he's laying on his side looking at me on the opposite side of the room. And I could hear him saying, Dean, Dean, trying to get my attention, you know, I guess the look on my face or something. We didn't talk about later, but I guess that's what it was. He couldn't figure out what was going on with me, but I couldn't answer it. Like I said, I was frozen. And, uh, so he looked where I was looking and he had to lean up. And out off his cot to look out the window because he's up against the wall that the windows on. So he had to lean up and out. But when he did, he saw this thing and this thing saw him. He didn't know he was there before because he couldn't, he couldn't see my brother in that corner of the room, you know, the way the wave was all set up. Cause his eyes got big and his head turned and looked at my brother and my brother immediately jumped up and started hollering and run out of the room. And when he did that, I could move and I followed him out. What just so happens that night, my father was home. He worked, usually worked when he didn't, you know, was on his shifts were at night at the, uh, toll booth down here at the antlers exit. Out the end of nation term by, but he was off that night, I guess, because he was there. And, uh, he slept in a separate room from our mother and our little sister. Uh, she was kind of sickly. She was a seven and a half month premature baby on the way to pounds. She was born. So she slept in a bed with my mom. My dad slept in a den at the front of the front of the house, but he kind of immediately, and my mom coming immediately when they heard my brother hollering. And, uh, they met us in the hallway between these three rooms. I remember my father grabbing my brother, asking him, what is it? What is it? And my brother said, there's a monster at the window. He described it as a monster. That was his exact words. And, uh, I'm just standing behind him. I, you know, I wouldn't say anything. I was probably in shock again. You know, like I said, I was scared to death, but my dad asked him what it looked like. And he said, it looked like a black man with a beer. I remember him saying that. And when I asked my father about it, when I was 35, my father remembered Mike describing it that way, you know, my father, like I said, avid hunter, he even loaded all of his shells, shotgun shells, rifle shells, pistol shells. He had all the equipment to do it in that room he slept in. He always had a loaded gun right there handy. He grabbed the gun and went out immediately. And, uh, when I asked him about it, when he was 35, I don't remember what was said later on that night. I was too scared, I guess. But, uh, he never saw nothing. Never heard nothing. Can't figure out because like I said, it was about a hundred yards to anything on any direction from that house and pretty open, you know, there was some. A few big trees, but not a lot. So where it went, where I got there that quick. I don't know because it couldn't took him more than 30 seconds to 40 to get outside and to the back of the house. But, uh, yeah, that happened in fall of 1975. That was my first and I had no reference point. I didn't, you know, I never heard of what I'd later would, you know, hear the term sauce, watch, big foot. Wild man, thousand other terms around the world. Uh, but, you know, a year later, after my parents divorced, we moved in as my grandmother in Wittempo, Oklahoma. I'm sitting in a movie theater and a documentary called The Mysterious Monsters was playing. And of course, you know, me and a bunch of little friends are in there. Harvey shouldn't even been watching it back at them, you know, but we're scared to death. And they're portraying and talking about big foot on this film and they're, they've got people dressed up, you know, and it's similar to what I saw. So I'm thinking to myself, that's when it kind of hit me, you know, maybe this is what I saw, you know. Uh, and that led me down. Why this fixing to be 50 years and kind of, I won't use the term researching, but reading and watching everything I can about the subject, you know. Just trying to understand how, you know, something like what I saw could exist and not everybody know about it, you know. That was my first sighting. And Dean, you said it reminded you of a man. Would you kind of describe what you saw? Yeah, you know, uh, I've never owned a computer and I didn't know people were talking hopefully about this subject until about eight years ago. And I got a smartphone and, uh, but anyway, that being said, I've watched a lot of stuff on this smartphone since I got it. And I keep hearing the term animal and I don't know where other people are seeing. You know, they may be seeing something completely different than what I have over the years, but rest assured, what I've seen is no animal. This was some type of a humanoid, a man. And to describe it, black skin looked like leather wrinkled on the face. Black hair probably, it had varied links. I'm looking at the front of it, full on frontal view. But it was daylight. You know, I got a good look from where my head was positioned when I locked on it because I couldn't move. So I'm looking from basically mid thigh up to the head, you know, what I could see out of my peripheral vision. I'm actually locked onto his face and eyes and ears and nose and mouth just like us. Flat nose, very large, heavy eyebrow above the eyes. The eyes were, I don't think they were inset. It's just that the eyebrow ridge stuck out so far. It kind of gave them that effect, you know, of being inset. Big ears. I remember those. The hair varied in links on what I could see. It wasn't all that long on my head, but it had a beard that, you know, wasn't real long, but it didn't hang down. You know what I'm saying? It was short and the moustache didn't even seem to come together under the nose like a normal modern man's moustache. It was just kind of coming up from the beard a little ways, kind of halfway to the nose. And as down the front where the hair was thinner on the chest and the top of the abdomen, the skin looked to be lighter than what was on the face. I don't know, you know, how you would term it a light black as opposed to the dark black skin on the face of it. And as I'm looking at it, it seemed like the hair on the shoulders and down maybe on the back or side of the arm is the way the impression I got was longer than on the front of the arm, you know, and on the abdomen and top of the stomach. And then it got thick down on the groin. And it was definitely a male. Okay. That was obvious. And then the hair got thick like said around the groin and on the thigh. And that's kind of all I could, you know, really remember seeing because I like say I couldn't I wouldn't I couldn't even move my eyes if that seems even possible. But that's how I mean, I was just frozen. But there was some there was a break in the trees. I'm wearing kind of a, you know, it's kind of a shaded area. There's a big, I want to say an oak probably behind it that is standing in our big tree, you know, with light coming in, but there was a big beam of a big section of light that came in from the right side. And what was interesting, what I remember was where the sunlight hit on its right shoulder and its right side. What all the other hair appeared to be black. But where the sunlight hit it, it appeared to be a silvery grayish kind of bluish tint to it. It's hard to describe. It was weird. But I remember that standing out, you know, that that section where the right sunlight was in it looked a different color than the rest of the hair, you know, so I'm not sure what that means. But I've often wondered, you know, whether if you've ever seen a wild turkey, their feathers, you get one and lay it out in the sun and move the like move the wings and it'll actually change colors based on the angle it is to the sun. And I've often wondered whether these things or what I've seen its hair kind of did that, you know, and when the sun hit it, it kind of shown or reflected and kind of changed its appearance as opposed to. If it was not indirect sunlight, but size of this thing. I mean, who knows. But I can tell you this, 10 years, well, not even 10 years, about eight years later, I'm sitting on the eighth row of a professional wrestling ring in Oklahoma City at the Miri Convention Center on the row where the bad guys come out. And there was a wrestler back then by the name of Andre the Giant, and he walked right by me. And so eight years from then, you know, I was 15 years old, whatever. That's the closest I've seen to the mass of this thing. And he wasn't close. I was guessing what I saw had to have weighed, you know, conservatively, 600 pounds to max, maybe maybe 1000 pounds a half of time. I mean, it was just tremendous mass. Height wise, you know, I've been around some basketball players that were 7172. This thing was a lot taller than any other modern human that I've been close to. Andre the Giant, they listed him at 714, but he was actually about 7, but a little bit less. This thing was two heads taller than what Andre the Giant was. So I'm guessing eight to 10 feet maybe, height wise, top end maybe 10. But at least eight, eight and a half, you know, conservatively, but I think it was more closer to 10. It was just massive, incredible size to this thing. Like I said, I've never, never seen any modern man. And I've known some really big guys. I used to work security at nightclubs, Oklahoma City, surrounding area. I had a lot of run ins with some big tough guys and nothing like what this was. This is incredible. Just absolutely stunning the size. Like I said, it was a monster as a boy. That's what I would call it. Now, you know, I've heard other people say that and I understand why they would say it. But like I said, I've never, what I saw in two consecutive years in 96 and 97 when I was hunting with some gigantic brothers, the two oldest brothers of this group that invited me up to hunt with them in an area called One Creek Valley, which is northeast of Antlers, between little communities called Finley and Snow. It runs east off Highway 271. And anyway, 96, I saw something leading up from behind the house. We were trading beer cans for, hey, got real cold that beer, white-tailed gun season is when I was up there camping. These guys invited me up and it was the second year I was up there with them and being the oldest brother. It was about six, eight, three hundred seventy five pounds. Without question, the baddest human being I've ever known. He was he was something else. But I go, I ride with him and his Jeep down to trade beer cans to this family at the road from where we were camping there in the valley. For, hey, it rained so much, it got muddy and our enclosure we'd built up in the trees there. We were, you know, water was running in. We were dragging muddy from outside. And so we want to put hay down the floor. Anyway, we go down to trade with them. He told me he'd done it before I had. And I just, like I said, they had just invited me up there. We go up and out walk this old woman from the house when we pulled in there and two younger guys, probably mid twenties to thirty. And they were some big days. These guys were six, four, six, five, you know, three hundred pounds and very strange looking guys. I hate to use the term inbred, but these guys might have been. They just had a simple look about him, if you know what I mean. But anyway, we're standing there and of course the guy I'm with doing the talking, you know, I'm just standing behind him. And he tells him what he wants and the ladies tells one of the boys to go get a couple bells hay for us and tells the other one to get the cans and the beer cans and bags. We had them bagged up and trash bags, get them out of the Jeep. And we're standing there talking. They get that done and Ron's talking to the old woman, the mom. That's what she was the mother of these two things, I guess that's well how she introduced them as her sons. I'm just listening, not saying nothing. And two boys get the hay in there and get the cans out and they come back stand by their mom and she asked Ron. She says, were you all hunting again? And Ron said, well, we're camped down here, you know, about three miles down on this side of the road. But we're hunting on the other side. And she goes, well, look out for old such and such. And for the life of me, I have tried, like I said, this was 1996 and I can't remember the name she used, but it almost sounds like a foreign name, almost French. I want to say for some reason, but I can't remember the name. She said, look out for old such and such. It's an old hermit that stays up in there and we take supplies to him sometimes. And when she said it, she lowered her head and kind of peeked over at the boys and they lowered hers and they all snickered. You know, kind of like there was an inside joke about what she had just said to us. And right as that happened, I just happened to look, we're about 30 yards from the front corner of the house on the east side. And at the back corner on the east side of this little house, right underneath the Eve, I see what appears to be the head, left shoulder and left arm of a guy, very hairy guy with no shirt on, long beard, long hair, lean out from behind the house. And his head's up at the Eve on this house. I'm talking, you know, nine, 10 feet. And he, you know, he could have been standing on something. I don't know. But all I see is his head, his left shoulder and his left arm and he ain't got no shirt on. And I want to tell you, it's cold that year. That's why we were up there getting that. It was raining and it was cold. So it was around 20, you know, low 20s probably. If I remember right, I got pneumonia that year. You know, when I got back, I had walking pneumonia. I had to go to the hospital and everything. But anyway, this day, whatever this guy, this thing didn't have no shirt on with that coat. And he was hairy. I mean, just, you know, that's all I can, but I didn't say nothing. Like I said, I'm already freaked out by these two standing in front of me and this old woman. I mean, these, these aren't your average people, you know, as I'm standing there, I'm, I'm already kind of weirded out. I'm with this gigantic friend of mine. So I'm not scared, but I'm just, you know, I'm just keeping quiet. We're getting the Jeep to leave and I asked Ron if he saw it back there, seeing it. And he said, no, I didn't. He goes, hell, those two are strange enough. And I said, yeah. And I said, Ron, this thing was, you know, like Sam talking to a guy at six, eight, three, 75, and I'm not exaggerating. I mean, you know, he's six, seven and a half, six, eight, three, 75. And I told her, I said, he made whatever this was, unless he was standing on something, you know, he made you look small, you know. And anyway, we don't say no more about it and go on. Well, the next year they brought these, these group brothers that I'd been camping with for three years, brought their wives and kids up there. And back in those days, you know, our dear camp was kind of, you know, we had a few, you know, we, we had a few, we had a few some alcoholic beverages and stuff in the evening. And anyway, my dad had decided to come up and camp right down the road from where they were at. He built an enclosure with his truck tops. He was driving a fat bed truck at the time. And me and my brother and my cousin decided not to camp with these brothers because the kids and stuff were there and you'd have to watch what you were saying and, you know, what you were drinking and this and that. So we went on camp with my dad. And my cousin was two years older than me. He wasn't much of an outdoors man. He's a fisherman more than a hunter, but he was like me. I wasn't much of a hunter either, but I did it all the time because that's what I grew up doing was taught to do. What my dad and brother did and my whole family down here. But me and him, everybody else was going across the valley to hunt my dad, his brother in law at the time and my brother. Well, me and my cousin Danny were staying by our camp and we were walking up the mountain behind our camp. And there was a heavy game trail there. It was being run pretty steady by a big buck. Anyway, we walk about probably 1000 yards up the mountain behind our camp there. Time we get up there to this, what was, oh, what would be, I don't know if you're familiar with logging terms, but you know, logging industry is heavy down here. But what we would call an old push road where dozer had leveled about three quarters away up the mountain at level to, you know, a surveyors trail. If you want to call it that and on the Glade there and leveled out of spot, you know, eight, nine feet wide. He said, hell, I'm just sitting down here. He didn't want to walk down to where that trail was. He was tired. So we had been up. We couldn't sleep at night. They put us by the door of the enclosure because it got down to 18 degrees at 3 30 a.m. He woke me up. My cousin did. We was up by the door. So it was colder on us. He woke me up and we checked the temperature and it was 18 degrees. So anyway, he said, I'm just sitting down here. And I said, okay, I'm gonna walk them down here to where that trail is at. It was about 450 yards probably from him. I got down there and sit down up against the street. We were overlooking this game trail. I probably had been there five minutes and I heard something like I've never heard in my life. The loudest. The best way I can describe it. It was a yell scream holler type thing. And it was tremendously loud. And it sounded like it was right back where I just left my cousin. And I jumped up and, you know, I'm concerned about him. But what I heard was the volume of noise was so great that I hesitated to head back that way. I've never heard nothing. I've never heard nothing like it and nothing that loud in the woods. But I'm thinking, I don't know what this is, but hell, it may be killing my cousin. I've got to, you know, I've got to go and see if he needs help. And so I start heading back toward him. And I got about halfway there and I see him heading toward me and he's walking backwards toward me with his gun up on his shoulder. And so I stepped behind a tree and holler at him because I don't want him to wheel around and shoot at me because I knew he had to be scared. Because, I mean, I could tell that by him walking backwards like he was and holding the gun up. And the noise sounded like it came right there from him. And I said, so I heard him. I said, Danny, it's Dean. I said, what was that? He goes, I don't know. Did you hear that? And I said, well, everybody heard that. What was it? And he goes, I don't know, but it was right behind me. And so I let him come to me and we stand there and talk about it. And neither one of us wanted to go back the way we had come up down there where the noise came from. So we made our way, we wouldn't even trail. We made our way down and back killed ourselves going back down toward camp right where we were standing at that point. We kind of made a trail to get down the mountain because we wasn't going back over there where that noise had come from. And Danny never left the camp the rest of that year. And he never went back in those woods again. The next day I decide being young and arrogant and cocky. I'm going to go back up there and just see, you know, if I can see any sign or just trying to figure out, you know, what could have made a noise like that? And so I get back up to where he had, you know, where I'd left him on that glade. And I look around, I don't see nothing. And I decide that I'm going to go on up the mountain. And as I got on up there, kind of opened up where the, what we were on was called a Nova Creek Wildlife Management Area at the time. It came down that far south into one creek valley. They used to mark the boundaries between that and private property by paint strips on trees. When there was a fence line, one side would be one color. And I forget where the public access land and the other side, the paint strip would be another color for private land. Well, I come to a fence and it was, I could see it was marked on the tree. So I knew, you know, I couldn't cross that fence. I'd be on private property. So I just kind of started walking down it toward it, toward the west. And I had walked 20, 30 yards and out in front of me on the private side of the fence, leaning out behind this big tree. Is what looked like what I'd seen the year before behind this house. And like I say, you know, it's 18, 19 degrees, 20 maybe by then time I got up there. Once again, I'm seeing the right shoulder this time. Instead of the left a year like I did the year before I'm seeing the head, the right shoulder and right arm, leaning out from behind a tree. Looking at me from about 35 yards away. And gigantic, I don't, you know, estimating height because it's leaning, you know, I mean, he was, he was over this guy, this thing had to be over seven feet tall without question, you know, from that distance, I could tell that. Unless it was standing on something once again, I couldn't see the lower half of its body, but it's just turning at me, not moving. And so I raised my hand, kind of wave at it, you know, let it know, you know, I see you, you know, because I don't know what this is. I don't know if it's a, you know, a man or something like what I saw when I was a boy right here, 75. I don't know. It just looked unusual. And it don't move. It don't acknowledge my hand wave. And I thought, you know what, I was carrying a lever action Marlin 30 30. And I have never talked that on any kind of human or modern person or anything other than an animal I was hunting. But I caught that rifle and I hit it down that mountain. And I stopped three times on my way back to camp and set and watch for 10 15 minutes, making sure my back trail was clear. Make sure this thing wouldn't follow me and made it back to camp and told my cousin. I think I saw what made the noise. And it's what I told you I saw with Ron last year. It looked just like what I saw that year before we're leaving out from behind that house. Yeah, you know, Dean, I have so many questions for you. I want to back up for a moment when you were a little boy and you ran into that creature when your dog ran off. Yeah, a lot of eyewitnesses will say when it showed me its teeth, you know, like a non human pride, you'll hear a lot of big foot researchers go well, non human primates will show you their teeth when they're threatened or they're pissed, which is true. And sometimes eyewitnesses will say that they'll say, man, it showed me its teeth and it looked like it was pissed. But then you'll also have other eyewitnesses that will say, yeah, it showed me its teeth, but God, it seemed like it was almost like smiling at me. And that was kind of your impression. I mean, did you get that impression based on the fact that it looked so human like? Well, exactly. This was no way. You know, this was some kind of a man. That's why I say smile. And, you know, it had a try to be sensitive here to your listeners, but it looked mentally challenged. You know, if you've been around adult folks that are mentally challenged, you know, I don't want to be like I said, I'm trying not to be harsh here, but they'll have a kind of a, I don't want maybe a dull look if you want to describe it that way, you know, a simple look about them. This thing had that. And so that in itself, you know, it wasn't with the apes when they showed the teeth, that's an intimidation thing, you know, it's showing look what I can look what I got to do some harm to you with. Never got that impression with this thing because like I say, this was no way. I don't know what other people have seen around the world that they described similarly. Maybe there's something else out there. It's a little more primitive, more like an ape. I don't know. But what I saw in 75 up close, this was some type of a man. And I say man because it had eyes, nose, ears, you know, hands, feet, legs, arms, everything. It was built like a man right down to the genitalia. You know, I mean, this, this was a man of some kind. You tell me what a man that's gigantic in nature, covered in hair, you know, with no clothes on is doing in Southwestern Puchma, Hawke County, Oklahoma in 1975. I've struggled with that for almost 50 years and I ain't never come up with a good answer, you know, but what I had discovered over that time in this area, there has been other sightings and there's a family two miles west of here. It's a family of two miles west of Lake 2019, early 2020 that got ran out of their home over here just two miles west. And the children described the same thing as what I saw in 75. I mean, they described it identically according to the investigator that one of the investigators investigated this, these incidents that happened over here, two miles west of where I'm sitting right now. And where I had my sighting in 75. And one of them's a prominent guy from up here at Hughes County, Oklahoma, as we're just out of them. You know, I don't know what, what your policy is. I don't want to put the guy on the spot, but everybody would know his name if I said it. And I didn't know, you know, until I started, I found this story in 2022 and put it together because they weren't open with the location. I just kind of put some of the things they said, and I knew where he was at and he told me the distance, you know, it took him to get down here. And anyway, I put it together that, you know, they mentioned the name of the old road. Now they've got numbers on these county roads here in Push County, 94911 purposes. But back then, people, you know, people roll around here still, they still use the old road names, you know, that they've been there for years and they mentioned that old road name. And I don't know if you even think it was right over here. So it's still, they're still seeing them around here. I don't think there's a lot of people investigating. There's one group here in Oklahoma. Well, two, actually, I know that's done some investigating, but you got the Muddy Boggy just to the west of me. And you got McGee Creek State Park with the lake and McGee Creek and Potoppa Creek and Panther Creek, Bear Creek all feed into it from the north right over here. Just a lot of running water around here. You know, I'm saying fresh water, you know, big places, you know, there's not, there's not a ton of people, even though I'm sitting here right now, I can hear the traffic right here on Highway three. You know, I'm just the old house back in those days. The old highway was about 50 yards, 60 yards farther north. So where I've seen it in the woods is probably 500 yards from the highway. But I think there's, there's still a lot of sightings around here. People just don't report them, you know, they never had. They kind of keep it to themselves. Yeah. And I know that in part two, we're going to go into the return back to the property. It's interesting what you say about its appearance. I've talked to many eyewitnesses and one thing they'll say often is it looked like it had Down syndrome. Yeah, that's the term. I mean, and that's kind of, you know, I guess you could, you could use that term. I've heard that too over the years. I just, you know, I just said mentally challenged because, you know, I don't know why I said that. That just, you know, but I've heard that I've heard Down syndrome too. Yeah, I guess you could describe it that way. But this, what I've seen in 75 up close in daylight, it had that look about it. And of course I could say at night at the window, you know, I was only 12 feet from it. I was actually closer at night. Well, what do you make of it coming up that whole behavior of it coming up to the window? What do I make of it? I make of it intelligence. And what I mean by that is curiosity. And I think, oh, I don't know how to say this right, but I think that children and women are not perceived as as much of a threat as a modern man is to them. And so they'll come up closer and maybe watch longer, you know, even if they're hidden. But I think they show their self. A lady that owns the museum over here at Talley, he know, Oklahoma. I'm not going to use her name, but you can find her. She's public on social media and puts on a conference up here every year now. They just had it here a few months ago, but she had a daylight sighting when they moved here from Dallas, Texas. They had been around the property or husband drove a truck and long story short, one showed itself to her like it did me as a boy. And I think a lot of that has to do with they had watched her. And I think I'd probably been watched multiple times before it showed itself to me because it definitely showed itself to me. You know, I wouldn't have known it was there if it didn't want me to know as a boy, you know, I didn't stumble upon it. You know what I'm saying? I didn't sneak up on it. I was watching me probably and just decided, you know, it's going to step out, you know, and I don't tell how many times it watched me. It's like saying this particular area. I'm convinced there's been a family group here for decades. Now, whether they stay here year round, I'm not sure about that. You know, I think they're basically nomadic hunter gatherers. They would have to be to live in the manner that it would take to survive and omnivores and opportunists as far as food, shelter and water is the key down here in this part of the world anyway. Anywhere around the water. If you go to research in it, you'll find that most of the sightings happen within close proximity of fresh water. Yeah, it sounds like a good environment for them. I want to go back for a moment and talk about the lady you bought hay from with those two sons. How far away from your home is that ladies place that you bought the hay from? Well, I'm sitting right now. I'm looking at that old house. It's the only thing left on the property from when I was a kid. I'm actually standing here at the door of the shop looking out at it. So it's probably 25 miles, maybe. Yeah, as a crow flies. I mean, that old woman was pretty close to where you lived. There was an incident. I kind of want to jump ahead to 2000. Tell me about this incident in 2000. Well, it was a primitive arms season late October 2000. And my brother shows up at my house up in New Wall, Oklahoma, saying, Hey, let's go to the mountains. I'd never hunted primitive arms. You know, he had just got into it, but I'd never went with him. You know, we would hunt together during gun season. That's when I hunted, you know, which I wasn't an avid hunter. You know, I did it to get in the woods more than anything. And my father expected it. My family kind of expected it of you. But long story short, he shows up unannounced. I'd been up all night with a friendly young woman that I knew at the time and that just got to bed. He shows up at 1130 on a Friday after Friday morning and let's go to the mountains and hunt. I said, I don't even have a gun or anything. He said, I bought a new one of these new inline, whatever, black powder, fancy ones. You can use my old musket. And I'm thinking, Hey, you know, where are you going? He said, Hey, we're going back up to cloudy. You know where I've been hunting with dad. And I knew there was a nice creek right there and it backed up on a low water crossing. Made a nice little pool about 300 yards long, unbelievable fishing. So that's what I'm thinking. So I'm getting my pole and he's hurrying me. And I said, well, you know, I didn't even have a gun at the time of any kind. I said, we need a gun for protection. Well, I've got my shotgun and my 357 and my Jimmy out there. And just, you know, come on, let's go, let's go. So I'm hurrying around and I don't know why I grabbed a sleeping bag and, you know, a coat and, you know, change of clothes and threw him in a bag. And anyway, it gets, we get to me in the truck quick and I forget shit. And I found out later where I forget some important stuff. But anyway, we head off to southeastern Oklahoma and it's about four hours to get there. So we're going to go to the southeastern Oklahoma and it's about four hours to get the lower four hours to get from New Walla to cloudy, which is where we were going. At that time, that area was still part of an oba creek wildlife management area. So you could buy a $40 annual permit that gave you access year for a year for $40. You could access this property for 12 months. So we were hunting that a lot at that time. We quit hunting up there in one creek valley. I had, I'd say that they're longer than my cousin, like I say, my cousin and my brother never went back in those woods up there in one creek valley after what, you know, what happened up there. But my brother had come down here to cloudy and started hunting with my dad and my cousins and they were successful. So, but I'd been up in there and I'd fished. So that's what I was going to do. I made sure I got my fishing stuff. But anyway, we get there. So I've been up all night. And so the first night I went to bed early. And then right after dark, I got in the tent. He'd bought a brand new tent and one of those dome tents, you know, when the first ones that come out with it popped up real quick and easy, you know. And so I went in there and laid down with him. He stayed up and my brother, he was a lot more of a drinker than what I was. He liked his beer. So he said, after drinking beer and next morning when I get up, he says, keep your eyes open. He says, I think I had two men, one from up the hill and one from down toward the creek, walk up surrounding the camp last night. I said, do what? And he says, yeah, he goes, sounded like two men walking. And I'd walk out toward them, holler at them, you know, and they were on either side of me. One was up the hill for me and one was down the hill. He'd walk out toward them and he'd hear them walk away. And when he'd stop walking, he said they'd stop walking and he'd turn and walk back to camp and they'd start walking back toward the camp behind him. But whenever he stopped, they would stop. They never would respond to him. He said, you know, it was dark. He said, I couldn't tell how close I was to him. He was shining a light, but he never saw nothing. But anyway, he says they may try to rob us. I said, okay, you know, where's that 357? So he goes to his truck. I said, that one shot, you know, you got to reload them black powders. And I said, you know, I want something else. He can't find 357. And I said, well, where's the shotgun you said you had in your Jimmy? He took them out to clean them. He'd never put them back in the Jimmy like he thought he had. So we're up there with just two black powder rifles is all we've got. And it's raining around misty, which is not a big deal for his new, new stuff. But my old musket, you know, it's a big deal when there's moisture, you know, the powder gets wet and easy and those and they don't shoot. But anyway, I let it go. And I put my gun up under a tree there. A big heavy pine is pine forest is what it is. You know, it's properties actually owned by one of the big timber companies, warehouses, Georgia Pacific, Renear. I'm not sure which owned it back then, but they, they give the state. They have a deal with the state to lease it. That's what three rivers wildlife management area down here in Southeast Oklahoma and a noble Creek or actually timber corporation land. They have a deal with the state that allows, allows you to access it for a fee. So anyway, that being said, but you know, we're out all day. We don't see each other and he's out hunting all day, I guess. And I stay out fishing and actually fall asleep again down by the creek down there. Underneath the tree next to the gun there. It started sprinkling around. I got up underneath that big pine on the pine. It was where it was dry and into sleep. But I don't know, probably, I guess maybe an hour and a half before dark. Come back up and I know he had said he had bought some deer meat for us to eat. So boy, I got to digging around in the ice chest and setting behind the tent. And then we were making dinner. First thing he comes dragging in dead dog tired, been hunting hard all day. So we make a fine meal that eats and big meal really pigged out. And then we're, you know, it got dark by the time we finished, cleaned up. So we're sitting around the campfire there, which was about seven, eight feet off the back corner of that tent. Had a few beers. This was Saturday night. He goes, I'm going in, go on to sleep. I've got good night. You know, I'd been asleep that afternoon slept good that night. So I was feeling pretty good and I wouldn't drink in the beer like he was. You know, I'd had a few, but I was fooled. But yeah, I was enjoying his beautiful night. You know, the rain had quit. So I just stayed up by the campfire and thought, well, I'll let the campfire burn down, you know, watch it because we're, we're in a pine forest, you know, you got to really be careful with your fires. Anyway, fire gets down to where I think it's safe. Burned out basically just some coals. I had brought a lawn chair to sleep on. Anyway, I go in and I'm trying to just launch your kind of turned over when I get up that morning. Anyway, I'm trying to get it straight, get it out, you know, and my brother saw and logs right next to me outside of 10 on a cot. You don't even know what I'm doing. Well, anyway, I go to get on that launch. You just one of them launch here is a lay flat. The old ones that used to lay flat, you know, you see women's suntan and on as one of those like a lay flat on it. But anyway, I tried to get on it at that time. I was probably two 15 and I got over on the, on the leg too far, I guess. And that thing just buckled underneath me. That leg just bent. So there I am. My, my, my sleeping apparatus is ruined. So I go to fold it up and unzip the tent door and chuck it outside and make out my sleeping bag on the floor of the tent. And I had, oh, I forgot a pillow when he is herring me to leave that day before I forgot a pillow. So I was taking this brand new camouflage rain jacket. This first time I'd ever used it. I bought it that year sometime after last year's hunting season. And I'm using it as a pillow and I stuff it into the corner of the tent back at the back where the ice chest was stacked on the outside. The fire hurts to my left about seven, eight feet. But anyway, I wouldn't lay in there five minutes and I started hearing a strange noise. And first I don't, I can't, I don't know what this noise is, you know, and it's kind of, it's very faint, you know, but I'm hearing it in a steady. So I got a listening and it's coming from, we were right in the corner of a T, there's the road T right there. One that went down the mountain to the creek is washed out and the other one went down about another 300 yards and went, ended up in the cul-de-sac. And then the other one was what you drove in on. So we're right there at this T where all these roads split and under the trees. And I realized that noise coming from that road that went down the mountain that I'd been walking down to go down to the creek and. Fish had a big tin horn down there. It was washed out to whether you could use that road no more. Anyway, it's coming from that road. It sounded like right over there about 25, 25 feet. I would guess on the north side of the tent and pretty soon the noise gets closer. And I realized that one I'm hearing sounds like breathing of some kind, like some kind of animal breathing. But my Lord, you know, I'm thinking of how far that road is and how I'm hearing this and I'm thinking what could be breathing that loud, you know. And so it had moved a little closer and just kind of stayed stationary, the breathing or what I thought was breathing. I doubt it wasn't for sure at that point. And then it moved right up outside the tent, you know, kind of even with the tent and just stayed there. It was staying motionless and staying one spot for about five minutes. You know, it moved three different times. And as it got closer to the outside of the tent, the breathing got louder. And when it was right at, you know, the last time it stopped and stood there or whatever, you know, it stayed motionless. I could tell then that this was breathing. I'm here and I can't believe it, you know. I just can't believe how loud it is and from 20 feet I shouldn't be here and breathing like that loud. So I'm trying to figure out what in the heck I'm hearing. And there is, there was some cattle that there was private property there, you know, not too far from where we were at. They would let their cattle lose to graze up on that wildlife management area. So I know there was cattle in there. And a lot of people don't know this, but there's a lot of horses down here in southeastern Oklahoma. A lot of people don't believe that, but there is. I've seen a hundred of them. I've seen one. And so I'm thinking it's one of those two. It has to be, you know, or bear. We have a lot of black bear down here. A lot more than most people think. Pretty soon, whatever this is, comes off the road and walks in behind the tent, right in the back of me behind my head and stops. And it blocked out the moon. It totally made the tent go black and the breathing is up above the top of this tent, which the top of the tent was about five and a half feet. This dome tent, right? You just had to stoop over a little bit. I'm about, I was about, I'm about five, 11. So I had to stoop over just a little bit. My brother could stand up at it. He was only about five foot eight, but I had to be in just a little bit. But whatever this is that walked in behind the tent, the breathing is higher than the tent. That's obvious as I'm laying there listening. And it blocked out. We had a full moon that night. And when I laid down, I noticed that the moon was coming through the branches and, you know, lighten up the tent and it blocked it out completely. So at this point, I'm realizing it been raining and when we come in, we put the guns in the gym. We never got them back out. I'm in this tent with nothing. My brother always carried a big hunting knife on his belt. I knew it was over there in his pants somewhere, but then we had a little low battery operated lamp in there. Other than that, I'm bare handed in here. Anyway, whatever this is, start shuffling the ice chest around right behind my head. And the breathing, like I said, once it got behind the tent, I can't comprehend this breathing that I'm hearing. I've been close to big animals in the zoo, close to every kind of big domestic animal you want to name. I've never heard breathing like this. This thing's taking in air and excelling air and taking 10 seconds to do it. I can't imagine the lungs, whatever this is. Shuffles the ice chest around. And at this point, I'm more than scared. I am really scared. So I pull the sleeping bag up over my mouth and stuff, trying to hide my breathing from whatever this is. I didn't want whatever this is to know where I'm at in that tent, right? It moves around right to the side of the tent where my head's at. And I hear a shuffling and that breathing drops from my pie and it dropped right to my head. I'm on the floor, you know, at the bottom of the tent. I broke my chair, so I'm laying flat. My head on this camouflage jacket right in the corner, the breathing's right on the outside of the material of the tent, right against my head all of a sudden. Then it starts sniffing. And when I say sniffing, I'm not talking like a normal animal, you know, quick burst of sniffing. This thing was taking in air. I can't duplicate it. I'll cough. I'm a smoker and I tried to duplicate it. I can't do it, but I can't even get close to how long it draws. It drew in air, then how long it excelled after it sniffed. You know what I'm saying? Big inhale, big exhale right at my head. At this point, I'm panicked. And I thought, well, whatever this is, I'm going to scare it off. So I raise up and I slap the side of that tent as hard as I can and I yell, hey, the top of my lungs. It don't, I just hear a little shuffling. Whatever this is, doesn't, you know, I expected something to run off, right? I'm hoping something would run off. It didn't. The breathing just went high again. So it went from down low and, you know, I'm going to use the term stood up because the breathing went high. And the next thing I hear is what sounds like water hitting the outside of the tent. My brother's coming to life after I yelled, you know, what are you and I'm over next to his cot at this point. I've done crawled over there on that side of the tent and I'm covering his mouth. So he don't say nothing and I'm whispering to him, is this what you heard last night? When I did that, he woke up, you know, when I covered his mouth, it kind of startled him and he looked over toward that side of the tent. He hears the breathing and he hears the, what sounded like water hitting the side of the tent. And he said, what? He said, no, I didn't hear nothing like that. What is it? I said, I don't know. Walked in a few minutes ago, you know, and it stood outside the camp and observed us. I heard the breathing and it came into camp. You know, we're just talking normal now because I know it knows where I'm at because it dropped right to my head and sniffed me through the tent fabric. You know, like I said, I hollered, I know it, you didn't know it was in there. And then we start to smell urine. Whatever this was, when I hollered and hit the tent, it stood up and started pissing on the outside of the tent. And, you know, so I'm telling my brother, you know, he goes, you know, I said, it's, it's pissed. I told him what I'd done, you know, and he said, well, that's what must have opened me up with you. I said, it just raised up and started pissing on the tent. That was his only response to me doing that. I said, I got to see what this is. So I grabbed his little lantern there. It was right by the head of his cot. The little bitty battery, you know, we used to use the bathroom in the middle of the night. And I had for the door done zipping. He jumps up out of that car and gets between me and the door. Pretty soon we're wrestling for the zipper on the door. And he's like, you ain't undoing that door. I said, it knows where I'm telling him, it knows we're in here, you know, I just want to get a look. I'm just going to unzip it a little bit. Just get a look. And like I said, he was my older brother for three and a half years, shorter, but stockier and he was strong. And I didn't want to knock the tent down. So, you know, I wasn't giving him my all, but we're wrestling around and arguing. And this thing moved when it quit pissing. It moved from the corner of the tent where we were urinating where my head was at the land to right outside the door. So it's standing right outside where we're standing. And, you know, and I know this because of the breathing, you know, you can hear the breathing play. And the day over us talking, you can hear the breathing. That's how loud it was. And it's standing right outside the door like it was just waiting for us to open that door and look at it, you know. Well, my brother ain't having none of it. Then whatever this is, lets out a tremendous holler. Similar to what I'd heard three years earlier with my cousin. It went through your body. I mean, it hit you like a concussion wave. And after it hollered, it turned and started walking down the hill. And as it went, we didn't know at the time, but we're hearing it. You start hearing tree breaks, tremendous tree breaks as it's moving away. It's not stopping to break these tree branches off. It's doing it as it's walking. It gets out of your shot and my brother relaxes and I move him out of the way, unzip it, hold the deal out. Of course, I don't see nothing. But what I noticed is when it after it hollered and it walked off, what we were hearing breaking was six, seven minutes branches that were 10, 12 feet up in these pine trees. It was ripping them out of the trees and dropping them on the ground, but, you know, as it walked apparently. And some of them, when I got to looking after I got out of the tent, some of them were twisted. They were pulled out of the tree. They were twisted in place hanging from the tree. You know what I mean? And so I'm tripping over these branches trying to walk down this hill to get a look at it. And my brother standing behind me going, what are you going? You don't even have a gun. And I said, man, if it wanted to get us, it would have got us. I just want to get a look at it. So I follow it for, and I can hear it still. Once I got on down there, I could hear it down in front of me. I follow it for probably, I don't know, maybe 60 yards with that little lantern. There was a spot where that tent was washed out. That was a low spot. And I was on the outlet side when I dropped off this little hill. And it was just, it sounded like it was just on the other side of this little opening in the tree line, not far from me. And it had stopped moving. I couldn't hear it moving anymore. And once again, what my brother described the night before, this is, it sounded like a man on two feet, but extremely heavy, you know. But I realized that it quit moving. And I thought, well, I ain't going to walk into this thing, you know, with no weapon. If it's right on the other side, it's clear like it sounded like it was, you know, I'm not going any farther. And I turn and go back to camp. And we get the fire going again and get to talking about it. I brought up 75. We'd never talked about it. Like I said, the day I told you about 75 when I had sighting twice one day, me and my brother never talked about it. Me and my parents had never talked about it all these years, you know, but I said to him, I said, Mike, do you think this could have been what we seen at our window when we were a kid? And he said, you know, I don't know what else. I don't know what it, what else could it have been? And I said, well, I'm going to tell you this. I don't know what it was. I said, I damn sure know what it wasn't. There ain't no animal that I'm aware of up in these woods that can do everything that this thing just did, you know, just can't do it. No animal. Well, our father and his brother, his older brother, our uncle showed up about a half hour before Don and we're telling them about it. My uncle was a preacher and I'd never spoke. I never back talked my uncle my whole life, but he made a comment. Well, you've done all city boys probably was a stray dog or a cow or something. And boy, it made me mad, you know, might as well call me ignorant. So I let him have it pretty good and custom front of me. I'd never done that. So let me tell you something. I know what it wasn't. I just don't know what it was. And I said, let me show you, get up. Come over. I told him and my father, we show you these branches down here pulled out and twisted when it left. My dad got up and came with me. And it was the first time in my life he couldn't give me an answer when I showed him what, you know, what had been done to these trees. He couldn't, he couldn't give me an answer. What done that? My uncle never would get up. He just, oh, you guys just city boys up here got scared. He didn't want to look, but also found what appeared to be right the corner of my tent where it sniffed me or dropped down to my head. And like I said, the fire was over there. We'd swept the pine needles away from where we built the fire on the edge of those pine needle sweeps. You know, where it was dirt. This was hard back rocky ground to up in this area, but I found what appeared to be an impression of what looked like the back half of a footprint, like a heel. And the rest of it was pressed down in the needles in the front. So there was no definition and where it walked in off the road. When it got daylight, I looked and I found deep impressions into the pine needles. There was no definition. But these impressions were five feet apart and probably 20 inches long, you know, when fighting those did not spring back up all the way, you know, whatever had stepped and compressed them down was so heavy that they couldn't compress back up even with the rest of the needles. All that being said, don't know what it was, but I know what it wasn't. Yeah, you know, there's so many accounts of Sasquatch peeing on people's tents. I've had many eyewitnesses on that have experienced this. He even had one guy on one time he was in a hammock and he was out there in the woods and one of these things actually peed on him. There's a little bit more to the story than that, but that behavior is so strange to me, but you do hear it a lot. And I want to get to this incident, the final incident that happened in 2015 with your return back to the property. And I'm so glad you're coming back for a part two because I have so many questions. One thing that's nagging on me going back to that old woman that you bought hay from. What's your honest opinion on that whole situation? Because the way you describe it, it just sounds creepy. It was more than creepy. Over the years, I thought about it and Guest Stone made that documentary for the Southern Bigfoot Alliance. It was him and Brian Hutterman, the first two I ever spoke to about these things. First people that I didn't know. I'd only spoken to a few people, but those are the first people I didn't know that I spoke to with. And when I decided to come out after all these years and talk about it. But he asked me the very same thing. He was like you, Guest, a very intelligent guy. And so he said, you know, all the other stuff is fascinating, but he was, I'm interested in that family. And I, you know, and he asked me some very poignant questions. And one of them was, do you think that, you know, they were talking about what you've seen? And it was one of these Wild Men, you know, I call them Wild Men together. I hate to term Bigfoot, so I use Wild Men mostly. But anyway, I said, you know, I wondered that very same thing. And because they knew, they actually told us, you know, there's an old hermit and they called it by a strange name. There's a pioneer that we take supplies to sometimes, don't shoot him. And then they looked at each other, you know, kind of out of the corner of their eyes with their head down. The old woman and the two boys and they chuckled like there was an inside joke, you know. And like I said, I see this thing laying out from behind their house. So that being said, it's really weird. I've had all kinds of things go through my head, you know, after, you know, all the research I've done, I've heard stories from the Native American stuff really intrigued me when I was young. Because, you know, they told us about these things when white men came over here in this part of the world. They told us about them and we didn't believe them. You know, they're ignorant savages, so we didn't believe them. But everything they told us back in those days, that's written down what they told us and what white men recorded, what they said is really accurate. If you think, if you go back and dig and it's all across North America, almost every tribe has a word for it, you know, and describe the same thing. But this family, I would use, in all honesty, I came to this conclusion. These boys were inbred. Now, I don't know if you've ever been around inbred hillbillies. I have, unfortunately, down here when I was very young. And that's what they reminded me of. Now, it's the first time I'd ran into them as an adult, anything like that, you know, but my instincts, my gut tells me that they were product of close bloodline relationship. Now, they're, and I'm not going to, I don't want to put words in your mouth, Wes, but I think what you're asking is, what was their relationship with what I saw? And I just don't know, you know, they were aware of it. So they said they took supplies to a hermit. Don't shoot, don't shoot such and such. God, I wish I could remember the name. I have struggled. It's a name that I'd heard before. It's almost, it was French sounded, you know. Yeah, the only French word I can think of, or French like word is the Lugeru, but that usually refers to something else, not Sasquatch. No, it wasn't Rugeru, but it was, it was a similar sounding, you know, and I can't, like I said, it was really similar. It's really strange. It's not something that you, you know, even if you do remember your chances of pronouncing that right, it's going to be slim to none, you know. But they were, I think they were talking about what I saw behind the house and what I saw the next year up there, leading up behind the tree after my cousin and me had heard that vocalization. It looked like what I saw leading up behind that house year before. I mean, the hair pattern, it had, it didn't have black skin, it had real dark leathery brown skin. This one did with black hair, but it was about the same length. The hair is what I saw in 75. It wasn't this big wooly, you know, which I've looked into that way. I was not thinking certain regions of the world where the climate's a little more harsh. In other words, like a dog, what's a dog do grows in a more hair for the winter, don't it? Then it sheds everything I found makes me think these things may do that to some degree. I know that kind of sounds outlandish, but what I've seen wasn't shaggy here. Like I've seen other people describe, you know, And for the audience, I'll be doing a part two with Dean tomorrow night with his return to the property. Man, I have a million questions for you, Dean. Kind of a last question I want to ask you tonight and I ask everyone and you got a great look at this creature. And you kind of alluded to it earlier, but what do you think Sasquatch is? And there's no wrong answer. No, there's no right answer. You know, we don't know. I mean, I think there's people that do know, but it's not public knowledge. What do I think they are? I think they, for the most part, I think they're hybrids. Now, what do I mean by that? I think there was an original bloodline, a big common, and I think there's still some left. And I think they're mostly in the northern regions and the real remote areas where the bloodline is pure. But I think they've interbred with every type of primitive man there has been. How many primitive men are these so-called experts say that they've found? That's just what they admit to. If you get, you go down the line and I have researched it. You got, you know, Crobagnon, Neanderthal, Heidelbergianus, Australopithecus, the Senevans. Now they just found these little short hobbit-like, I can't remember if they called them, but they found them on the island of Florence here a few years ago. I think they, this original bloodline has interbred with other humanoids. And so I think they're hybrids is what we see around here. You know, in most parts of the world, they're actually hybrids. And that goes back to, you know, Eastern Europe, Russia, Siberia, the Caucasus over there, what they describe as the Old Mosse. They're more manlike, you know, than what people describe the Yeti being, you know, the stuff in the high Himalaya. That's described as a little more animalistic. And that may be the actual original bloodline. Now that's one thing I can come up with after 50 years is mostly hybrid bloodlines between different hominids, you know, they've interbred. Some of them had, you know, multiple bloodlines. Some of them may just have two. In other words, they're just like us. West, they're just like us. They are different heights, different weights, different sizes, different colors, different temperaments. I think if we can get past this animal thing, this ape thing and think of them in terms of being like modern man, you know, and having all the differences that modern man, a Chinese man doesn't look like a Native American man. You know, a European man doesn't look like a Chinese man. You know what I'm saying? Polynesian doesn't look like a, you know, a Russian. So I think that's what you get with these. I think they all look, they can be different depends on what part of the country you in and based on environment and diet. That's why you get so many different descriptions, I believe. Yeah, that's a good answer, Dean. It's one of the things, one of the questions I struggle the most with, you know, Matt Pruitt and I were talking about this last week. You know, why is it that some of the eyewitnesses say what I saw look like a great ape? They had a human nose and some features that are human like. And then you get other eyewitnesses that are like, no, what I saw was a man or, you know, a woman. It was a prehistoric humanoid type creature, very human like in the face. And I'm so glad that you're coming back for a part two, Dean. I can't wait and I can't wait to hear because I know when you went back to the property after, you know, 40, 50 some odd years, and you're there now. There's been some weird things that have happened that didn't happen when you were younger. And I want to talk to you about those. But thank you so much for taking the time to come on for this part one. I really enjoyed chatting with you. Hey, no problem buddy. It's good to talk to you. I enjoyed it. Thanks again, Dean. And join me tomorrow night as we wrap up with the Chronicles of Dean and the whole part two of him going back to the property. You definitely don't want to miss it. If you've had an encounter and you'd like to be on the show, shoot me an email. My email address is Wes at Sasquatch Chronicles dot com. And if you get a chance, check out Sasquatch Chronicles dot com. You can become a member and get additional shows. Until next time, everyone. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you.