FULL Breakdown of this Historic 2026 NBA Draft Class + Dybantsa vs. Peterson Debate

Hello and welcome to the Whoop Collective Podcast. We talk about the NBA, which we are doing actually a little bit early this week. And we're going to be honest, I'm out of the mix on Thursday, so we're taping this on Wednesday. All right, I'm just going to be honest with you. So whatever went down on the NBA on Thursday and Wednesday night, we ain't going to know about it here. Just be in fair. Joining us from New York City, I believe, is where Vince Goodwill is. I'm going to drop though, Wendy. That's what I'm, that's going to be my greetings since I'm from Detroit. What up, though, as well. We're going to say. All right. And I'm very happy to welcome back to the Whoop Collective pod, ESPN, College Basketball analyst, because we're going to be talking about the college guys today. Just in to Dallas, where he lives from Auburn, which I don't even know who Auburn played last night. That's how I roll is King McClure. What's up, King? My man, how are we doing? Man, honor and a prayer list. Appreciate you, invite me. Who did Auburn play last night? I'm Tuesday night. Auburn played LSU. And, you know, when you hit that matchup, it's typically, you know, football matchup that would be like, oh my gosh, it's a high level matchup. But basketball, all the both teams are kind of shorter in the bottom of the SEC. Auburn needed that game last night in order to make the tournament. The knee part, like a few more wins in order to get in. LSU was just completely out there just ready for a rebuild there. Ter, Ter, Ter, the whole thing down. So Auburn won and they should be trying to win a few more to be able to make the tournament this year. All right. Well, we also know that you specialize in the big 12. You played the big 12 at Baylor. So we're talking about some big 12 players here. And so our draft analyst at ESPN.com, Jeremy, we recently came out with a mock draft. I'm not sure which ranking this one is. But anyway, I just thought I would go over. So we're just getting ready for the college basketball season to intensify King. I'm sure where are you going to be during championship week? Where is ESPN dragging you? Yes, I'm at the so-con tournament. And then which is where? It's in Asheville, North Carolina. Another place that can be hard to get into. But I heard it's beautiful out there. Yes. I once covered a preseason game in Asheville and I flew in in a soup and I flew out in the soup. I never even saw the mountains. But it seems like it's a nice place. I've heard good things about it. But I was there for like 17 hours and never saw the sun. Oh, well, okay, then where? Then that's it. I was on a big talk. I was on a big talk. I was on a big talk tournament the past few years, but this year, you know, Bill is in game days going. So I'm not there this year. All right. Well, I trust me. That's how I've lived most of my career at ESPN. And the big 12, did you see this Vince? They've got the court is just all LED. Yeah. The whole court is LED and they can like change the look of the court in one second with an iPad. I did not see that at all. And that kind of scares me. Like, what are we doing here? What happens to good old fashioned hardwood? You know what I mean? It's gone. It's gone. And I mean, I want to say that I think now, how about this for a sponsorship? The sponsor, the, I think it's a presenting sponsor. I don't know. You don't hold me to that. Is Windex? Because it's like a, you know, I don't think it's glass. I think it's probably like plexiglass. But I don't mean Windex. Windex, maybe you should be searching for some additional sponsors. Listen, I'm prepared to, I'm prepared to endorse. I'm available for endorsements. And don't give the NBA any ideas as far as LED courts and stuff like that because they'll do something wacky like that and fall in the middle. Well, I don't want to do real this too much, but you know, the league is, you know, the league is trying to lean into nostalgia right now. And they're bringing back the, the decals for the playoffs in the finals this year. Yeah. Supposedly. Because you know, King, they stopped using them like a decade ago. Yeah. The reason they stopped using them wasn't because they didn't want to, didn't make the court look special. It was because players were wiping out on them because they're giant stickers. And it's, and it was causing the court to be slick. It was a player safety issue. That's why they stopped doing it. So. Wendy, I don't care. And the people don't care. You know, like when I say that, I said not to go on a tangent like, but Wendy, you got to make something feel big. And when the NBA finals looks like a regular season game on a Tuesday night, it doesn't present the feel to a casual fan or even a die hard. That this means something. That's the one thing the NBA supposed to do better than everybody else is supposed to do presentation and pageantry. And okay, yeah, it makes a couple hundred thousand dollars to make. Then up, it's not decals. They're putting on the actual floors, Wendy. And as I suggested to a few of the NBA's brass during the finals, make the two courts during the conference finals auctioned the two other courts off. And you'll make your money back because someone will have a piece of nostalgia in their rich ass house. Right. Well, the team that wins will, would, would, would buy the court. I guarantee you that. King, now I'm old enough to remember when the NCAA games, the NCAA tournament games were not played on generic courts. And they would just played on the courts and they, you know, would put down stickers or whatever. I understand why they're all played on these, you know, the generic, you know, blue courts, blue and, you know, black courts or whether or blue and white. But I wish they were played because you know, you don't know where the games are. Like you remember, you know, like I understand for the final four that's the branding is a little bit different. But am I out of, I know this is nothing about, we're not evaluating college players here, but do you, do you like the generic courts where you have no idea where the game is or do you think that they should go back to playing on the regular courts wherever they're playing it? Well, I'm not old enough to remember those days that you were that said, that you're talking about. I know Vince remembers it. Yes, I do. But, but I honestly, I don't, I don't mind. Yeah, I really don't see it, see an issue with what they're doing. And I think the NCAA is just in that, that realm of, if you, you know, try to change one thing, all of a sudden, everything is going to blow up and, yeah, I know it's a margin. So like, let's keep the tournament the way it is. Let's keep it safe. Let's not expand. Let's just, where it is. It's been, it's been good. So it's been good. No need for changes. I along those lines, the players who are going to be standouts and NCAA tournament, who are then going to be carrying their names on draft night. Let's start. So with what Jeremy Wu has, and I want to go through some of these players. If you listen to the pod and King knows this because he's done some draft stuff with me at ESPN in the past, I just don't have bandwidth for college basketball. I, I, I talked to scouts about these players. I learned these players when they come into the NBA in summer league and when I watched them play. So I am reliant on experts like King to help me out. So his Jeremy Wu's number one pick at this point is Darren Peterson out of Kansas. Had a dud last night with the rest of the J Hawks Tuesday night in Arizona State. This is an interesting player, King. I want to hear what you think about him. Yeah, well, it's no secret that he's in elite talents. He's an elite shot maker. There are a lot of questions and a lot of concerns that get brought up. And I'm not going to be of the camp that says this young man doesn't love to play. He doesn't want to play. I'm not going to be that guy because I think that's a very unfair label to put on him. But let's just say hypothetically that what they're saying about these injuries are true. So I think the first question mark comes to play is if, I mean, like you guys know, the best ability in the NBA is availability, right? So if you can barely make it through a 32 game season or 30, however many game season that you play in college, my question is can you make it through 82 plus? You know, so I think that's the first question that we really have to do a deeper dive. And none of us know because we're not on the inside. We don't really know what's going on. But I'm sure NBA teams do their research and really find that out. But let's just talk strictly hoops, right? For when he's on the list, forget about all the extra nonsense and all the fluff. Here are my concerns with him. We know that he's one of the best shot makers in college basketball that we've seen in a very long time. However, I think that if he's not scoring the basketball, he doesn't make an impact on the overall game. And why do I say that? Right? In his last four games, he's scored 70 points, but it's taking him 70 shots, in order to get 70 points. His efficiency has really fallen as of lately, but also let's say, all right, you're not scoring the ball in the fishing clip. What else are you doing to help your team? Well, he has 31 assists to 30 turnovers on the whole season. He's not a great facilitator. He doesn't really make everybody else around him better. So my concern is outside of scoring, outside of shot making, what are you doing to impact the game if the ball is not falling? He's 65-wing, or I guess he's a combo guard, right? 65 good size Vince. By the way, did you see Bill Self get ejected on Tuesday night Vince? No, I don't know. So Bill Self got ejected in the first half of the game. And one of the funniest things that I've seen all season, at least all calendar year, he gets ejected and he's walking off the court and he walks out the tunnel, you know, and Tempe as Aaron is on the state. And as he walks through the tunnel, they, whoever has it, pushes the button and they shoot the smoke machine off. So as he's walking out the tunnel, I get that they shoot the smoke machine. Amazing, amazing moment. Timing, I like that. You know, talking to some people earlier today, the name that came up for me was Devon Booker. Someone brought up Devon Booker as a pro comment. I'm not going to do pro comp every play we talk about, but I thought for purposes of this discussion, it was interesting. He, the athleticism doesn't quite jump off the page, but he is an athletic guard, right? Like he can get to where he needs to get to, like you said, the shot making is elite. The concern I have is, it's twofold. If you are pulling yourself out of games, if you are load managing in college, like King said, how are you going to manage the rigors of an NBA game? If somebody else is making the decision to pull you out of games, then at what point where their influence extend once you get to the pros, like either you could either be a headache or health concern. And I don't know which one is actually easier. And I understand where in Wendy and King, we're in the age of load management, right? Like everybody has to protect whatever the long tongue, long term prospects are for you to make as much money and hang around as long as possible, right? But at what point do you just go out there and play? And I'm not saying that he's not doing it. I'm saying this is a question that executives have posed to me who are saying, okay, I want to talk to this kid and see exactly where his hair is because his talent is a top level. Not I did talk to an executive this morning who said, now when you asked me top level talent, are you saying multiple time all star or change your life? And I said, change your life. And he said, no, these are multiple time all star. 100% spot on spots. There's a lot of teams tanking that are hoping for change your life, guys. Just so you know, I agree. I don't think he's a guy that is going to change your life. I mean, we look up in about 10 to 15 years, he's going to average about 20 for his career, 20 plus for his career, multi time all star. And I really don't see a guy that is literally the change your life type of star that you know, this just talked about. So I agree spot on Kelly, roll and change your life. Wendy. You know what I mean? Gotcha. I'm going to stop right there. We need that level of prospect. Kelly, roll and change your life. I got it. More hoop collective podcast after this. All right. At two Jeremy Wu has AJ DeBanza or DeBanza. When I met him, he went by DeBanza is it DeBanza or DeBanza King? Man, I've heard so many different reiterations of his name. I the latest is DeBanza. That's what I heard. Okay. I've heard the bands, the bands. I've heard all types of types of different formulations of his name, but the latest I've heard is DeBanza. I think I've talked to you guys. I've talked to the pilots. I was about I have a relationship with some of the members of the family. I have watched AJ more because I got to meet him and know him a little bit a year ago, a year and a half ago. I want to watch his first college game this year, King at Nebraska. So I'll let you go here, but I actually may be able to comment a little bit more on AJ, but go ahead. BYU by the way. Six, what is he? Six, nine, small four. Yeah, I love this kid, Wendy. In my opinion, you asked me earlier, you're going to give away a number one pick. In my opinion, I think this is the number one pick to me. Just because I think he has the highest upside. He has the highest potential out of the guys in the top 10 because he is extremely versatile and has a skill set in which I don't think too many other guys in this draft class has and can be able to replicate. So when you look at what he does well, I mean, he's leading the nation. And scoring almost at 25 points for game. And in my opinion, he's not he's not shooting the ball well. So he's able to get his bucket in a plethora of ways and his three point shot to me can get and can can can vastly improve. So that's one thing. And I think the thing that people sleep on when you watch him play is his ability to be able to pass. So he's played in 30 games and 33% of those games. So 10 of those games, he's had five or more assists. I mean, this young man can actually facilitate. He can put the ball in spots in which you look at a guy his size and you're like, Oh, that's intriguing, right? And his ability to be able to really honestly be the best passer, be the best facilitator on a BYU team that truthfully in my opinion, then really have a true point guard. Rob Wright is a great score, but I don't think Rob Wright is really a point guard. I think he's just a smaller two guard. There's looking to score first, past second. So AJ has had to really embrace that role and step up to be that lead primary bar handler to make plays. And I think he's done a tremendous job with that. So the areas of concern, his three point shot, I think it can be a little better. He can improve those numbers and get more attempts because he doesn't take a lot, but when he does take, I would like him to see you be more efficient and defensively, right? He has all the tools we just haven't seen it because BYU isn't a program that you know, if you go to Houston, you know, you're going to guard, right? BYU is not that program. You go to BYU, you know, you're going to outscore opponents. You know that you're going to be able to run good sets because Kevin Young is a great master mind, but you never, ever use the word defense with the BYU coolers. So I do think that he can take a jump or he can take a step on the defensive side because he has all the God giving abilities to be able to do so. Wendy would jump out to me. When I, whenever you like, you watch a player play, you have to like, resist certain temptations, right? And I watched him play like maybe one of his first games and I was like, man, he's moving really fluently. It don't look like he's trying, but he's got a motor. So you know the name that came up to me and I brought this up to a GM a few days ago. And I was like, does he look like Tracy McGregor to you? And he says, absolutely not. He has a much higher motor than Tracy McGregor to the other. Wow. Now he's saying from a motor stamp, not necessarily from skill set and everything else, but he says, yeah, I remember Tracy McGregor when Tracy first burst onto the scene, AJ has a higher like you don't have to ask him to play in that way. Like he's going to take the challenge and everything. I said, you know, Tracy floated even when he was a pro, but that's what made him so great. You know, all that type of stuff, but his size, like King said, like some of the games that I've seen on play, Wendy, he makes pro reads. They not necessarily, oh, this is the past. That's the assist, but you can see where his eyes go. You can see where he wants to take a pass where he wants to take a play. And to me, that's far more important than an assist total or whatever is being able to make those reads just because pro defenses are so much different than college defenses when you got how heavy the zone is, how shrink the floor is in college compared to the pro game. But he has like a smoothness and a polish to his game, Wendy that to like you said, change your life when I look at him, like it just, it looks like he fits the eye test of this guy can change your life. So yeah, I mean, I can't assess it. I will tell you he's one of the best mid range shooters for a teenager I've ever seen. I mean, I'm watching Jalen Brown, like have dominating success in the league right now, hunting mid range shots. And you know, I've been around long enough to see things go out of style and come back into style. And I'm telling you after watching Jalen Brown dominate the way he has average 30 points of game this year at that mid range, there's going to be guys who go look and I know that the efficiency is not there. But if you are going to shoot at the percentages that Jalen Brown is shooting, the efficiency is there. Well, the efficiency of Ragey to Bansa is definitely in the mid range. I watched games where this guy is devastating for the mid range. And yes, absolutely, King, you are right. The knock on him is this three point shot isn't as good as it needs to be to be at a elite NBA wing. And I'm sure that that was something he continues to work on. But I'll say about him and knowing him and his family a little bit, they've been focused on having an NBA mentality for years now. And look, let's be honest, he went to BYU because he got an enormous NIL deal. But part of the reason he selected BYU was that Kevin Young, their coach, is an NBA coach. NBA coach for many years, one of the top assistants in the league when he was in Phoenix. Might have been able to get an NBA head coaching job at some point, but left a lead to go to his alma mater BYU. Their training staff at BYU is an NBA. They hired them from NBA sources, all of NBA experience. And so this is kind of, it's not exactly what Victor Wimbledon-Yama did, but when Victor Wimbledon-Yama, his last year in Europe before he came over, they set the whole team up. The team is to function out. It's gone. The team was going to go out of business and they sort of rescued it for a little bit and set the entire team up to maximize Victor's NBA preparedness. And what I mean by that, for example, is they went out and got American point guards because they wanted him, the point guards who had some NBA experience because they wanted him to practice running NBA style pick and roll. For example, and by the way, he Victor is so good that the team got to the French league finals anyway, even though it wasn't optimized necessarily for French league play. And obviously, BYU has some good players. They have who's the other shooter that they've got, King? Rich and Saadis who got injured. Right. Yeah, he got injured, but he's going to be an NBA player, don't you? Of course, you're 100% he'll play in the league, yes. Right, he's a great shooter. But this team and this experience for AJ is really been about maximizing his position to thrive when he gets to the NBA, which it's not like Kansas has and churned out a whole bunch of players. It's not like Darren Peterson is not having that experience just to be clear, but it was particularly crafted for AJ. And that's why I kind of rolled my eyes at his quotes on a podcast. As I might come back, I mean, how many times have we heard that? I do think I will say this King like and Vince, we already are seeing late first round picks. I'm trying to think who the player was who maybe they would have gone late first round this year and came back as brothers in the league. I don't remember now. Anyway, with where NIL money is, there are definitely players who are staying in college because where they can get more money than they would get if they were the very back end of the first round or the second round. You know, there's millions more guaranteed. We are not there yet with the top end of the draft. No, we better not be. I mean, Cooper, yeah, Cooper flags, Cooper flags salary this year is number one, pick is 14 million. So I'm sure that number one picked this year, next year will be somewhere in that range. I don't exactly know what Darren Peterson and DeBonza got. I'm sorry, DeBonza, which is what Jackson, do I say that right Jackson? DeBonza, they got millions and millions, but they didn't get that much money. So while I respect, yeah, Jackson saying the Cooper flags are the same thing last year. So it's been a long history of doing it. But Wendy, millions per game. If you win the lottery, they're going to come up. But Wendy, if you look at it per game standpoint, 82 games, 30 and no responsibility. And I was going to say you get to be around girls, but he goes to BYU. But I will say this. You heard some of the, I'm not going to say it on this podcast. We worked for Disney, but you heard some of the things that they say to BYU. Yes. Yes. I've heard. I've heard. Don't give me a particular thing that they tend to reference. I'll just leave it at that. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. The thing that I will say about AJ, and it makes sense when you talked about his bad. I'm sorry, I'm sorry. I'm sorry. AJ is like criticized that and like sort of called out opposing fan bases for their behavior. And that's not. I don't believe he's Mormon. I don't think he's Mormon. But go ahead. I don't care. Look, he is playing the hits. I might come back next year. I'm part of you guys. This is a family. Just play the hits. The one thing I will say is that when I don't know what the question was, and it was like a couple of weeks ago, maybe it was when BYU played Kansas. And he said, you know, I don't mind playing. And it was a direct shot. Of course. Peter said that's that lets you know that he understands the power of media, the power of branding, the power of messaging and savvy in that way. And I have zero problem with that. If the next star is going to be able to use and leverage that to his advantage, so be it. Even if he comes and BYU. Right. Just don't put him in Utah. Okay. That's a bridge too far for me. Right. All right. Jeremy Wu with number three, he currently has Cameron Booser, the forward slash center out of Duke. This hits me because I remember when he was born. I was covering his father, but that's my own, that's my own problem. Okay. And I've got to deal with that on my own. I've got to deal with my own mortality on my own. But Cam Booser, you know, again, it's not like going to Duke is a, you know, it's like they haven't had a long history of producing great players. But what is Cameron Booser done for you this year? Yeah. He's your safe pick, Wendy Invent. I mean, he is the guy that you just know is going to be a great NBA player. Right. He's just destined for success because when you look at what he's done in college for Duke, arguably, he's been the most consistent player in America. I mean, he's averaging a double, double every single game, every single moment they're running things through him. He leads Duke in assists, which is a good thing, a positive, but I think it's also a negative especially when it comes to turning them at time because I'm a big believer in guards. Help you get wins when you get to March. And Duke's guards have to be a little bit better in order to help them be able to get wins to win the championship. But Cameron Booser is so good that I think that he will instantly will them to the final four. I mean, the game against Michigan. I mean, that game right there, when we talk about the height that Michigan got, all season, and their well deserving of it because they're a great team. But when you look at Linda Berg, you look at my red Johnson, you look at Mora. I mean, that's two out of three guys who will be talking about in this upcoming draft in the first round in the front court. When they say they have the most dominant front court in College basketball, we can't Booser say, that's fine. I, I, that's cool. That's cute, right? I'm going to go out there and show you what I do and put the team on my back when it matters the most. John Shire gave the ball to him and he delivered every single time. You know, I knew he was legit before that game, but when I saw him against Michigan, when the lights are the brightest, how do you respond? What do you do? Do you step up and he did that? I mean, is it better to be able to pass and make everybody around him better? He raises the level because he is such a dominant force. We talk about creating advantages in College basketball that one way that you can start off as you can have a player so dominant that he automatically draws, too. So when they automatically draw, too, every single time they touch the basketball, you instantaneously have that advantage. Can Booser is one of those guys. I mean, JT Topper from Texas Tech is another one, but Can Booser is one of those guys that automatically be able to take two towards him. So you always have an advantage on the floor when he's out there. It kamed. Because at six nine, like when you look at him, he doesn't look like a tall six nine or a long six nine. Are you concerned about his size, like height having to play the four or because he's such such a good, you know, stretch the floor type of guy, like Carlos was a 18 foot shooter. So clearly he instilled that in his voice. Are you, is that less of a concern because he's a stretch floor? Yeah. So any NBA he's a stretch for. I have two thoughts of this. It's too full because I asked a few NBA scouts this when I was doing certain games and we had this debacle because I was under the impression. I'm like, you know what, he's a little small. I don't necessarily love him because at the four spot, I don't think he's agile enough to really be able to consistently play the four, but he's undersized to play the five in the league. So I asked a few scouts and they go, what about Jalen Duran? What about Isaiah Stewart? You know, what, what are we seeing with Colin Murray Boyles? Like those guys are so strong that they're able to, their heart almost outweighs their height in a sense. And I think Cam Booster is strong enough. I think he's smart enough. Number one. And I think he has enough skill to be able to be a small bar or five on the next level in the NBA. I don't necessarily think he's a four because I don't think he shoots a well enough. I think he has to get better in that area. Like it's not bad, but it's just not where it needs to be to play the four in the league. But I do think he can be a small bar or five. And I think his toughness and his IQ can get him over the home. It's so interesting to me. And again, I'm defaulting to be an old man here, but this could be his father's scouting report. His father was, you know, slightly undersized. I mean, you know, he's power forward size, not center size. And was double, double machine. Now his dad wasn't known as a passer. I'm not saying he couldn't throw a good pass, but he wasn't known as a passer. It wasn't, you know, a playmaker like that. But I've seen people say that his shot mechanics aren't perfect. That was something that his dad did. His dad when he came in the league shot was a side shooter where you know, shot the ball next to his head. And they had to move it over. They obviously became a multi-time all-star. But was like, you know, and was a second round pick was a, was a, you know, but played, I think two or maybe three years at Duke. He played multiple years at Duke. So it's just interesting to me, you know, and all, and like, again, not great athleticism. Yeah. You know, Carlos, but go try to get a rebound over him. He put his backside into you and pushed you out of the way. So it's just, I mean, obviously it's his son, but it's just so interesting to me that, you know, that it's, you know, the thing is like in the draft where Boozor went, you know, Jay Wil was in that draft. He went to, I think Mike Dunley, he went in the top five. Yeah, he went five. Dunley went five. Okay. And then Carlos went like 32 or something like that, 31, 32, you know, right top of the second round. And Carlos had the best career. I mean, obviously, Jay Wil had that unfortunate accident. But, you know, again, is this a change your life player though or is just just a guy like, you know, if he's like his father's a multi-time all-star, but never the best player on the team? Yeah. I don't think he's a change your life guy. I think the only one at the top three that could be a change your life guy possibly is AJ. But I think that when you look up, Campbell, Boozor is going to play 10 to 15 years, make a whole lot of money and he's going to be a winner. He'll win a few championships probably just because I think he's that level of player to add to your team and he cares about the right things and he cares about winning. So I think you'll have an incredible career, but he's definitely not a change your life guy. He can play next to a star. Yes. Like he's not somebody that is going to command so much attention that he's going to be hard to plug and play. Like he's legitimately, you know, why understand a plug and play sort of got it. You don't have a problem with him anywhere. And shockingly, Brian Winhorse might don't leave you in third in the NBA draft. And I won't tell you why I know that because a player I once covered loved making Mike don't leave his life miserable because he said that guy went number three. He might only have a fine career. He did. That's no shot. It's only what the player being honoree. More hoop collective podcast after this. All right. Now, you know, you want to do what you want me to say? All right. And who's picks most recent mock, which, you know, I'm sure he's going well, you know, my picks have changed a little bit. Caleb Wilson out of North Carolina's number four, six, 10 power forward center, King. I have heard anecdotally just from scouts who I've started to talk about him. He has been a riser up the boards if I'm not mistaken. Yeah. He, he has things that you just can't teach. Wendy, he's very kind of, he's very raw in a sense, but his upside and his motor is what I feel like a lot of people are starting to fall in love with. I mean, that game when he matched up against Duke, he looked good. He got to his spots. He was able to rise up. He was able to get to the rim. He was able to defend. I mean, the versatility in which he shows every time he steps on the court, I think that's what stands out. Wendy and Vince, I've seen this man pick up 94 feet on guards. I mean, he can sit down. He can stay in front. He can turn you over. He can really switch one through five because he's an athletic freak. Might be one of the most athletic players that we will see in this first round, honestly, in the whole draft. I mean, there's so much to like about him, but I think he's just getting started. And I think that right there is why scouts are falling in love with him because you can teach a guy how to shoot. You can teach him how to dribble, how to get to a spot, how to make plays. You can help him work on those things. And what you can't teach his effort, you can't teach a motor, right? We talk about AJD Brown to this guy's motor might be way higher. It turns on a little bit different than AJ's. We talk about his want to play defense. I mean, it's want to compete. I mean, this young man has everything that you need in order to have success in the league in terms of the physical attributes and his potential. So I definitely think he's a guy that I'm not going to say change your life. However, I think he's on that border of if he grows and continues to work and get better puts his head down to grinds, he could maybe get there, could possibly get there for sure. King, I look at his body. And I look at him waiting, waiting to 15. And I'm like, is he one of those guys that's just going to be naturally, not going to say skinniest of right work, but like, why are we strong and still be able to keep that athleticism in that motor? Or do you think he's a guy that has to put on 15, 20 pounds of grown man muscle to be able to hang with the rigors? Or do you want to keep him lean? Yeah, I think there's a fine balance. I think you do want to keep him lean because I think that his frame is one reason why he so agile on the perimeter and they would have really sit down and stay in front. But I do think he needs to put on a little bit of weight. That that be 10 pounds would that be 15. I feel like it could all look different, but I think a 10, 15 pounds with still without him to be able to have that same fluidity in which he moves with. So I don't think that would be too much, but I do think there's a fine balance. You don't want to get him too big because then all of a sudden his athletic traits go down. It's almost like on 2k, right? When you put somebody's weight up, right? Now they get slower and everything. So you don't want to do that. I do think there's a fine balance to where he can put on a little bit of weight and still maintain that same level of explosion. And honestly, the way that he puts on might even help him a little bit be able to absorb that contact and the air and be able to diversify his athleticism. It's interesting you mentioned that because some of the comps I've seen of compared him to Chris Bosch. I would say that would be a good player. In talking to Bosch, and again, we hope Chris you're doing okay. Yeah, CB. I remember talking to him about, you know, he came in as a string bean for out of Georgia tech. And the whole thing when he was in Toronto was, you know, you need dad weight. And so he did. And like in year three-ish, four-ish, maybe five-ish, he added like, I don't know how many pounds it was, significant weight. And yeah, I mean, if you go back and look for footage at that time, you can see that he was much heavier than he played with the heat. And he said he instantaneously started having knee problems. And he lost the weight back and started feeling better. And so some, you know, again, everybody's different, but I'm just telling you the story that Bosch told me not everybody's meant to carry, you know, certain amount of weight. And you know, Victor Wombanyama, you know, Victor Wombanyama, people say, well, he may not be meant on that frame to carry, you know, certain amount of weight. So that's interesting. At number five, Wu has Kingston Flemmings out of Houston, the point card out of Houston, King. He's talented. And you know, it's interesting because the knock on Kingston Flemmings coming into the year was that he couldn't shoot. But we've seen him this season be able to take over games and be able to show that he can really knock it down from deep. And he's off the dribble, off the catch. It does not matter. He's shown that he's a 40% three point shooter. And the game I want to pinpoint is the game against Texas Tech, you know, the way that he made it look easy. And I love the speed. His into and speed is very, I don't want, I'm not making the comparison, but just imagine Wendy and Vince John Wall, the way he can get from one end of the floor to the other, like a Derek Rose-esque, right? The way they can get from one side to the other side of the floor, literally extremely fast. He gets to his spots. He's able to get to his mid range jumper. We talked about AJ and his ability to do that. Kingston loves that. I think when you look at his last four games, his efficiency has gone down primarily due to the fact that number one of the defense has got a little better. And they understood that in order to stop Houston, you have to car the lane because when you look at a CNAC who will go in the lottery and you look at a JoJo Tuggler, neither one of them spaced the floor and shoot the three well. You know, Tuggler won't even shoot a jumper. He's more around the rim. CNAC is a mid range specialist who can hit sometimes with some majority of the time. So the spacing for the Houston offense has not been the greatest, which is why in the last game, we got Colorado cover and Samson changed a few things. He flashed a big, had a lot more cutting to make the offense a little bit more fluid. And I say this to say his efficiency has gone down because when you're playing with big, you really can't space the floor and the spacing is bad. It makes it harder for Kingston Flemish to be able to do what he does best. Downhill created advantages, get to his mid range, pull up and then he shoot the three later. So now we're starting to have to rely on his three point jumper because there's no spacing on the floor. I think that changes when no doubt that changes on the next level. People space more and you'll play with better players who will be able to and of course also bigger. So that'll change, but I think the part of the reason why his efficiency has gone down as a recent is because the Houston offense in terms of spacing just hasn't been there which really hasn't been able to succeed him more for success. Do you think that there is a line of separation between the top, I'm say the top guys because we're still in the top five, but do you think there's a line of separation between up until Wilson and then you get here and then you get to Keaton Wagler and Darious A. Cuff and Burries out of Arizona who they really like do you find all those guys being in the same, are we in a different tier of the draft now? No, I'm going to say no because one thing that we talked about earlier was are these guys change their life guys or are they just multiple time or stars on that caliber. And I think that when you go down this list, there are a few names who I can throw out and say that he's not a change of life guy, but he can have a really successful career and be a potential all star. And one of those guys names is you just mentioned Darious A. Cuff. I mean A. Cuff is a dude man. A. Cuff is high level. And I talked to a coach in the SEC and he said we played against every single guard in the SEC. We played against the top guards in non-conference. And there's only been one guard that is actually scared of me. And that's Darious A. Cuff. Because his ability to be able to score and make any read off of a pick and roll, he can make any pass talking about A. J. Zreeze. I mean, this guy might be arguably the best passer in the lottery in Darious A. Cuff leading the SEC in points and assists as a freshman. I mean, there is a strong case and I saw somebody that say this other day. There's a strong case. A. Cuff might be the best guard as far as college stats that has ever played for John Calapart. Let's take that, let's take that every consideration when it comes to stats. Oh, dear, you, I heard that. I heard that. Oh, dear, you're not credit Mario, coles. Yeah, I mean, look, when it comes to stats, he might have the best season. I'm not saying he's not the best career. I mean, coles, play the Kansas, never mind, I was thinking, never mind. I mean, Jackson, take it out, take it out, Jackson. I'm not saying he's going to have the best career, because we have no idea how it's going to pay it out, but as far as one season under John Calapart, he's arguably having the best season for any guard that's played for John Kauper. So let me ask you about Keaton Wagler at Illinois. This is a guy who at the start of the season. I'm not even sure he was in a first round, great. And now I see him on top 10s in Mox. And I talk to a veteran, not a college scout, a guy who's like a front office guy who goes out and, you know, wants his scout's report back. And he went to see him probably three, four weeks ago. And he's like, I'm not saying he's going on the top five, but he would go on the top five in a lot of drafts I've put together. So you know, six, five guard out of Kansas, ended up at Illinois, not a Kansas. So it's actually a number of players native of Kansas in this draft. I'll just point out. But anyway, what about Keaton Wagler? You know, I love the chip that he plays with on his shoulder. I mean, those guys are hard to find nowadays. And part of that was because he was overlooked in high school. You know, he's from Kansas and Kansas didn't even reach out. Honestly, I don't think he need to one of the Kansas schools reached out, whether that be Kansas or Kansas state. I heard Kansas state. They tried to tell me that they did. I don't believe that. All right. I think Illinois is the only program. I think it's one of the two that that Brad Underwood, Illinois is turning out some players now. Yeah. Brad Underwood is not given enough credit for what he is doing and how he's done at Illinois and how he has gotten that program back to where it was back when he was deep brown, Dan Williams, Bracey Raleigh. I was a young bull, but still I remember those two of those three Dan Williams and Bracey Raleigh is from Dallas. So I looked up to those guys, right? So what I'm saying is Keaton Wagler is so talented because I think he plays with that factor that you know what? I was overlooked and I'm going to prove you wrong and I think he was, he kind of benefited. You know, you hate to see guys go down with injuries like Kyle and Boswell, but when Boswell went down, Wagler stepped up and said, this is my moment. Like the game at Purdue was absolutely unreal. I mean, he can shoot it off the balance. He can really get to with spots. He has a really high IQ. There's not a shot on the floor. He feels like he can't, he can't take or he can't hit. I love the confidence factor in what he plays with. And I think that's what makes him special, right? The fact that he was overlooked and the fact that he knows how good he really is and how good he can be and he goes out there and proves every single time. I think those types of players make for special guys on the next level. You know what that sounds like, Wendy, including like the funky sort of shot form. Sounds like Tyrie's Halleburden, don't it? Six, five, good size, can get his shot up. Like that was a concern from the Midwest. That that a scout posted me like, yeah, I think people are saying he can't get his shot up. But I think he can get his shot up carries the chip on his shoulder. Like all it takes sometimes is one type, one player and then that player becomes the archetype. Tyrie's Halleburden is now the new archetype. And if you find somebody that's close to it, it opens the door and all you have to do is see this guy play and it's like, oh, yeah, he can go and be a first round pick. And now it's a lottery pick. And that was maybe a top five pick. It's amazing how all it takes is one. King, do you have a favorite guy that we haven't talked about yet that before we go that you that if the other team called you, you would say, hey, pay attention to him. I have a few, but I'll give you one just for time's sake. Joshua Jefferson from Iowa State, Joshua Jefferson at six nine is NBA ready right now to make an immediate impact. I mean, he's had about with two or three triple doubles on the season. He can really facilitate. He can step out and shoot the three. I mean, the improvement he's made from his junior year to this year has been extremely impressive. He's honestly turned himself into a first team, all American. He's a little bit older. He's about 22. I want to say 22, 23, which to me, I'm not necessarily one of those guys that shy as away from older players because I think that some of those guys can make an immediate impact and a true impact on a winning team. I think if somebody were to be able to get this young man in the 20s, like a contender could get him in the 20s, you can plug a man and immediately. He's ready to help you go win a championship. Vince, do you have anybody that you're going to be walking? No, don't do that. We are, we are just fine. Land in the woods. We are licking our wounds from that duke loss. I can't believe I had to fix my face when he brought up Cam Booser. I had to fix my face to make sure it stayed stoic. You know, duke has given my, duke has given my Michigan fan a few heart breaks over the course of my life. As long as there's not a long heart. I grew up, okay, I'll tell you a quick story about Bob. I became a Michigan fan, okay? And this will strike fear into the heart of Wendy during a two week span. As a six year old, growing on seven, I saw Desmond Howard do the Heisman, the Hello Heisman against Ohio State. And then two weeks after that, Michigan led by Chris Weber, Jalen Rose, Ray Jackson, Jimmy King, John Howard, the fat five took duke to overtime at Chrysler Arena. I thought Michigan was a black college at that point. I was like, oh, I'm going there. Well, I have to say that Desmond Howard, you know, who by the way, isn't Ohioan. I thought Desmond Howard, I thought that was when I watched it live, it was hurtful, but I thought it was cool then and it's cool, you know, 30 years later. Hello Heisman, Wendy. Yes. Yes. On the coverage support illustrated, right? Wasn't on the coverage support illustrated? Yes, you did. Yes, we were. And Charles Woodson couldn't do it because another one. Another one. Another one. Another one. Another one. Yeah. What would Michigan do with that Ohio guys? All right. Yeah, Aiden Hutchinson wasn't from Ohio and he. We're still we're still looking at our ones from that. All right. Anyway. Thank you so much for taking your time and giving us your insight. We look forward to having you back closer to the draft. I wish we could go for some more guys, but not a time. Thank you so much. Thank you, Vince, for giving me your Michigan memories. I hope to have more of them. I can't wait. There's a gap. There seems to be like there was like a 10 or 15 year gap though where I haven't heard any of those memories. Amnesia. Amnesia, no clue what happened. All right. Thank you to Devon Jackson and Mark for producing. Thank you for listening and watching the Whoop Collective. We'll talk to you next week.