The Education Doctor on Paying Less for College

This is Women Road Warriors with Shelly Johnson and Cassie Ticcaro from the corporate office to the cab of a truck. They're here to inspire and empower women in all professions. So gear down, sit back and enjoy. Welcome. We're an award-winning show dedicated to empowering women in every profession through inspiring stories and expert insights. No topics off limits on our show. We Power Women on the Road to Success with expert and celebrity interviews and information you need. I'm Shelly. And I'm Cassie. Getting into college today is a super complicated process. It often begins in middle school. If that isn't daunting enough, many people can look forward to being strapped with really huge bills after they graduate from college. So much so that it keeps them from buying homes or the delay starting a family. According to USA Today, student loan debt in the United States is over $1.7 trillion. Yes, that's trillion. And that amount has tripled in just 15 years. The American Association of University Women say women borrow more for their education, holding almost two-thirds of the total student loan debt. It doesn't have to be that way. Dr. Pamela Ellis is known as the education doctor. She's an award-winning educator and best-selling author of What to Know Before They Go. She helps parents and students avoid overpaying. In the past five years, 95% of Dr. Ellis' students have been admitted to their top choice colleges and received an average of $75,000 in scholarships. Her mission is to guide students and parents through the complex college prep process and get knowledgeable about what they should be paying for college. Dr. Ellis is with us today to offer her valuable insight. Welcome Dr. Ellis. Thank you for being on the show with us. Thank you so much, Shelley and Kathy. I am really excited to talk with you today. And I want to start out by just sharing with your listeners just how lucky they are to have you as hosts. And you are both very gracious and really have some lively conversations that I've enjoyed over the years. So just thank you so much. And I want to remind your listeners to go out and do their five-star review. Well thank you, Dr. Ellis. Thank you. You're welcome. You're welcome. You deserve it. Oh, that means so much coming from you. And we really are honored to have you on the show. You know, you are providing such a life-saving service to students and parents. The cost of college has reached a crisis level. What got you started in all of this? Oh wow. Really what got me started in this is becoming a mom. And knowing some of the challenges that my kids would face as they navigate through school is really what led me here. And when I just became so obsessed with figuring out how to help them with navigating the education system, I decided to go back to Stanford and get a doctorate degree. And my whole life's work is around high school to college transition. So what supports students with navigating through high school and then going on to thriving college? It's so necessary and things have gotten so much more complicated. How did college tuition get so out of control? I mean, it's just mind boggling. Yeah, it really is. And I'll just share with you a quick story. When I was growing up and planning to go to college, I applied to all, every college I could apply to because I was so worried that I wouldn't get in anywhere. And when my mom dropped me off at college, she gave me $70 for the first year. And let me tell you, I thought that was great money. So I got to the bookstore the next day and my books for the first quarter were $350. Fast forward four years later, I graduated with just $10,000 in debt. That was it. That was it. And I just feel like today, there are still those opportunities for students to go to college and to not be strapped with a lot of the debt that you talked about in the opening. And the thing about it is, yes, we see that tuition has certainly increased over the years. When we look at what the families are paying, though, when you look at those numbers, you will see that the tuition is really like a sticker price. And there's only just less than 20% that are actually paying the full price of college. And so I think that's where we need to look because then when we look at the fact that there are so many great colleges out there that can be amazing fit for your student, there's no reason that you have to overpay or pay the full amount. There really isn't. So it's a matter of doing your homework ahead of time because I'm sure if people don't know their options, they end up getting stuck with some huge bills. They do. It's not knowing the options and it's also not really preparing. And like you mentioned, yes, it's daunting to think that you need to start preparing as early as middle school. But when we think about it in terms of sports, kids are often doing sports and preparing as early as middle school so that they can play in college or go on professionally. And so in the same regard with going to college, it's basic things like learning how to self-applicate. And building those skills of independence earlier on and social emotional wellness. So some of those things can start in middle school and then taking all the classes that are needed to be successful in college and beyond, taking those classes in high school that are important to take. And so those are some basic things that can be done to support students with having more options for college. Really good to know. Of course, that's where they need to have good guidance counselors in school that are schooled in this too. Yeah, yes. And there are a lot of really great guidance counselors out there that can support students as they are journeying through middle school and high school. Kathy, I was going to ask you, is tuition in debt for college in Canada as crazy as it is in the United States? Do you know? It is. It is. I know even back in 1996 when I was attending nursing and being a single mom, and it was incredibly difficult just to make ends meet and try and like you were saying, those books are insane. Like the medical books. I was going to this college, Grant McEwen Community College, where they have the nursing program and I had eight classes and like just a psychology book, the sociology book, the anatomy book, just everything. How do you, it was very, very difficult. And my student loan back then, it did add up. I only got a little bit of a grant and it was crazy. So yes, it's very expensive. Yeah. Yeah, definitely. So what do parents need to know about paying for college? What's the truth behind all of the numbers? I mean, the sticker price, like you said, people don't have to pay that price. I mean, we seem to be a lot more knowledgeable when we go into a car dealership that we can dicker. Yeah. And the thing about it is that I always share with families something that can really help them with getting a sense for the priorities of a college. And that can be as simple as reading the president's letter to get a sense for the kinds of opportunities that are there at that college, how they see themselves, what the next few years on the horizon looks like. And so, for example, if that college just opened a new nanotechnology center and hired professors to be there, they need students as well. And so there's a strong chance that if your kid is interested in that particular field of study, there are scholarships behind it. And so that's one thing. And that's pretty common across colleges that they will have these letters from the president. But the other thing about it is looking at their financial page to understand the scholarship opportunities, how they award financial aid, what is the average tuition that's actually paid at the college? Getting a sense for how do they address need-based awards and do they pay 100% of need or is it only a portion of what's needed? But just understanding some of that terminology can really make a difference. And then as far as even looking at testing or what the college's requirements are for testing, if they are test optional or if they require testing, that can make a difference for your student and making sure that they are crepping ahead of time and that they will be submitting their scores and what to do with their scores aren't as high and how that plays a role even in terms of scholarships because some scholarships are awarded based on test scores. And so just understanding that can help with not overpaying. But one of the key things that I'll share is within our company, what we do is we really look at what's a good fit for students and start with the student. And so parents can do the same in terms of really talking with their teen about who they are and what their plans are, finding out their why for college. And we look at five fit factors that help us with doing that match across the different colleges so that students are applying to those colleges that are a fit for them as opposed to just randomly applying to colleges. What are the five fit factors? They are academic, social, financial, vocational and cultural. So those five factors and they all fit together. Sometimes especially if we're looking at the cost of attending college, we're looking just at the financial piece. We're not looking at those other factors that are going to really play a role in their teen thriving in college. Sometimes the additional costs are incurred because students are graduating later. They're not finishing in four years, they're finishing in six or beyond. And so that certainly drives it up as well because the colleges have a four-year program and oftentimes the money is for four years but it's not for six or eight years. And then that's when you end up really paying out more if you're staying there longer than the scholarship awards. Sure. Stay tuned for more of Women Road Warriors coming up. Dean Michael, the tax doctor here. I have one question for you. Do you want to stop worrying about the IRS? If the answer is yes, then look no further. I've been around for years, I've helped countless people across the country and my success rate speaks for itself. So now you know where to find good, honest help with your tax problems. What are you waiting for? If you owe more than $10,000 of the IRS or haven't filed in years, call me now at 888-557-4020 or go to mytaxhelpmd.com for a free consultation and get your life back. Industry movement Trucking Moves America forward is telling the story of the industry. Our safety champions, the women of trucking, independent contractors, the next generation of truckers and more. Help us promote the best of our industry. Share your story and what you love about trucking. Share images of a moment you're proud of. And join us on social media. Learn more at truckingmovesamerica.com. Welcome back to Women Road Warriors with Shelley Johnson and Kathy Takarov. You listen to podcasts on all the major podcast channels like Spotify, Apple, YouTube, Amazon Music, Audible, you name it. Check us out and bookmark our podcast. Also, don't forget to follow us on social media. We're on Twitter, Facebook, Instagram, Pinterest, LinkedIn, YouTube and other sites. And tell others about us. We want to help as many women as possible. If you've got a future college freshman, admission preparation now starts in middle school. And the price tag is so boring to get into college. USA Today says student debt now tops $1.7 trillion, which has tripled in 15 years. The AAUW reports women carry nearly two-thirds of all the student debt. That's staggering. Dr. Pamela Ellis, the education doctor and author of What to Know Before They Go, helps families avoid overpaying. Over five years, 95% of her students got into their top choice school with an average of $75,000 in scholarships. She teaches students and parents what they need to know to get college educated without going broke and get into the school they really want. It's a matter of getting educated before going for that degree. Dr. Ellis, there's so many things that can drive up the cost of college. There's so many factors too. If somebody stays in a dorm, all of that adds up. Do scholarships typically cover dormitories or not? They can. They can. And yeah, they can. In some cases, it's always applied to tuition first. And then there may be credits or balance left over to apply toward room and board. That gets pricey. Even if a student opts to live off campus in an apartment, the landlords around the campus tend to charge a ton of money. Yeah, because they know they can. And sometimes they charge a little less. So some students may live off campus because it's cheaper to live off campus. They don't have to incur the meal plans. I think that's the other thing that really adds to it is the meal plan. But if you can cook, you have an apartment off campus, then that is a lot less expensive than doing a meal plan on campus. I was cooking in pairs. So my first year, I did live in a dorm where they provided meals. And when I finally got an apartment, my second year in college is kind of like, wow, I have to fix this myself. Where's my mom? I know, right? Yeah. I remember the same thing. And my first year of college, oh my goodness, the meal plans didn't include the weekends. And it was really tough at times to get off campus just to have a meal. And so you really have to be mindful of just what's included. Sure. I lived off a lot of pot pies, ramen noodles, that kind of stuff. Yeah, me too. PBJs. Something quick and easy. Well, food wasn't a priority. I mean, I wanted to have a better tube of lipstick or something like that or hair is shit. You know? A lot of pizza. Pizza for sure. The priorities of being 18, 19 years old is like, okay, but it's just a matter of a right of passage and growing up too. Exactly. So what do parents and teens need to do to qualify for those scholarships and get into college? I mean, it's pressure on both the students as well as the parents. And it starts early. It is. And you know, something about it is, you know, as I mentioned earlier before, taking four years of all the core classes can cover you in so many ways. And I'll give you an example of this. One of my students, actually this is the case with a couple of different students, but with this young man, he was taking Spanish and just felt like he really wasn't doing well in Spanish. And plus he felt like, oh, I'm interested in film and so it's not going to matter. And no matter how many times we talked about it, he was still pretty clear that he did not want to continue in Spanish or junior or senior year. Lo and behold, one of the colleges that he is most interested in in his field of study, they require four years of a foreign language to be admissible. And so right off the bat, that really takes that college off his list in terms of being a great candidate for it. And so when we talk about, you know, taking the classes all four years, it just means that it'll give students a lot more options, just a lot more options in terms of colleges where they will be admissible. And so something as simple as that can help students as well. And oftentimes, you know, students, you know, they maybe they say, oh, I don't want to be, you know, in STEM, so I'm not going to take a science, you know, in junior year. And I say, no, go ahead and take it, take it for all four years and show that you are challenging yourself and take advantage of the opportunities that your high school offers. And that's a way to give them more options for college, because there are so many great colleges out there. And even though we hear so much about colleges that have very low admissions rate, there are tons more that have very high admissions rate. And so they have money, scholarships available for students and really eager to support students. And so it's a matter of being in a position where you can have those options. What's the difference between scholarships and financial aid? That's a great question. I was thinking about that. So thank you, Shirley, for asking that. I'm like, wait a minute, we're like, what is the difference? That's a great question. And oftentimes we use them, you hear them use interchangeably. I think of scholarships as being married based and financial aid is need based. And so usually you'll have to complete some forms, some financial forms to qualify for financial aid, but a student's application can qualify them for scholarships. OK. Can you get both? Absolutely. And when families get both, it's like a double dip. Oh, yeah, that would be wonderful. I mean, that would be a huge bonus. I mean, you could almost sail through college if you have that, almost debt free. Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely you could. And so yes, you can get both. Do you have a theory on why tuition is so high? I mean, it just seems like in the past 30, 40 years, it just gone up like a really fast logarithm. There's been a lot that's been added to the colleges over the years. And I don't want to call any of them out in this way, but I have gone on over 500 campus visits. And there are a few colleges that I've visited and they had a lazy river. They had some amazing facilities and there's a cost to that. And so that's part of it. The facilities, the salaries, having really good labs and other resources. So that's what I think has contributed to it the most in terms of the tuition. Well, when you drive around certain neighborhoods in the United States, and I don't know if it is the same in Canada, Kathy, some of these middle school and high school buildings look like country clubs. It's like, wow, yes, all of them do. It's just amazing. It's like, wow, my high school didn't look like that. I know mine was all decrepit and run down and like, what? I remember my high school kind of grew by leaps and bounds in over the years. And one section of it was from the 1930s. I remember thinking, well, I fall through the floor. Just because to me, that seemed ancient. It's like, wow. Yeah. And that does not impact the quality of your education. It's the teacher, you know? Well, the quality of life on the campus, I'd say, is certainly enhanced for sure. Yeah. And being able to have certain resources on campus makes a huge difference in the quality of life for students. You know, being able to access healthcare, mental health services, all of the staffing that's needed for that. And so there's a lot that can make a difference for students' lives and being able to just stay on top of their assignments and coursework, just having everything available there on campus for them. Totally agree. Well, a good health center, that's important. It really is. Think about just all of the stress that's relieved when you can go to a Pilates class or a track to run on. It makes a huge difference. I mean, when I went back to grad school, I had three little ones under five. And every quarter, I had some type of exercise class. And I just felt like that was my self-care. That was my time to really unwind and make sure that I was taking care of myself. Because, you know, especially as women and moms and daughters and aunties, we wear so many hats. And oftentimes don't take care of ourselves because we put everyone else first. So, yeah, it really made a difference for me that they had those resources available on campus. For non-traditional students, I know a lot of the women who listen to our show may be thinking about going back to school. And finances are still a very big consideration. Are there scholarships available for somebody to say get their bachelor's if they haven't gotten it or even go get their master's degree? I would say, Shelley, more so for bachelors I've seen and a little bit less so for masters. Sometimes those are covered by their company, their employer. They offer resources for that. And sometimes there are some companies that also offer scholarships for starting a second career or going back to school. It's not as many that I've seen. They're kind of lagging in that area when you think about it because so many people have to pivot today and go into maybe even a whole new field. Yes. And the thing about it is maybe they do it in a less traditional way. And what I mean by that is I'm sitting here at my desk looking at a course guide. There are a lot of community colleges that offer programs and have courses that support you with pivoting into another career field. I was just looking at this course guide for a local community college in my area because they have online courses as well as in-person courses. And one of them is in programming and information technology and computer apps. And so there is a lot that you could do in your own community at the local colleges that are very affordable, very affordable. And the other way I think too is talking with your employer about some type of support with going back to school. Sure. A lot of students may also opt for VOTEC. They may not necessarily qualify for college. That's not something they really want to do. Are there scholarships available for VOTEC programs too? A little bit less so. I haven't seen as many for the vocational areas. One of the students that I met with recently, she is interested in automotive. And I'd be hard-pressed to find something in that area to support her scholarship-wise. And so I don't see as many, unfortunately. Short-sighted again. They need to plan for the future. And of course, when you look at automotive, I think you probably have to have almost certification at least in computers because everything's computerized. So there are likely some companies, some businesses that have worked out a way for students to get that type of training. Some of it may be on the job where they are working with the company while they're going back to school. And that makes it a win-win for the companies. So I just find it hard to believe that everyone who does some type of vocational training has to pay for it out of pocket. I feel like, especially for companies that may be short in terms of their hiring needs, that they are willing to meet that new employee halfway, in a sense, and pay for their education at the same time that they're working with them, or maybe they agree to work with them once they finish. There are ways for it to work out. Yes, there are ways for it to work out. Kathy, do you know what's available in Canada? I know that you have quite a training program with the pivot you did in your career. Well, that's the thing. They have programs here in Canada that help or enable women mostly. I hate to say that, but I mean, I kind of feel sorry for the guys. But women develop themselves into non-traditional careers that women would not normally think of getting into. And the program is called Women Building Futures. And now it's pretty much gotten big enough that it's Canada-wide. But when I first started in 2012, it was only in Edmonton, Alberta, and Calgary. And what it is, it's companies that believe in sponsoring programs and developing programs to assist women to get into the non-traditional trades, because there's barely any. So what I'm talking about is electrician, plumbing, carpentry, journeywoman, crane operators, heavy equipment operators. And these programs, I was very fortunate when I couldn't go back to nursing and I needed a career change. I was 42. I mean, how do you change careers when that's all you have? I mean, at the time I was desperate enough that I'll go pump gas just to get a paycheck. But reality speaking, I mean, I have, well, Shelly knows I have eight hamsters and one wheel. And this noggin, it just doesn't stop. So I need a career, right? I need something like I can't just go, you know, be a teller. So I went to a career planning workshop and which was free. And they help guide you and steer you in a direction that you might not normally think that you're qualified for. And I really took it to heart because what they did is they took it into account your personality, your, you know, what is it that you're? Deared towards, you know, what makes you tick? What doesn't? What? Because you put me in an office setting and it's, it's, you may as well just shoot me like I, so Shelly knows too that I struggle with computer. I started thinking that instead of stopping myself or limiting myself, that wait a minute, you know, I don't have to see the dream at the end. Is it possible? I like, well, I can drive a truck. I'm a good, I'm a good truck. I'm a good driver. I used to race cars. And the day I went in Exxon Mobile, the biggest oil and gas company in the world happened to be there paying for 16 women to take a 12 week heavy equipment operator course. That course was $18,000. I mean, I was broke. I was in recovery. I mean, how do you come? Had I not had that program, I wouldn't have been able to change my life the way I did. And it turns out that, you know, during the course of this training, because 158 women applied, but the only paid for 16 and I got picked. And every piece of equipment I was getting on, I'm like, oh my God, I can do this. Like I'm good at this. I can do this. And that shifted everything. So now everywhere I go, I mean, I encourage women to not limit themselves to an office job or not everybody's meant to be a doctor or a lawyer or whatever. That there's other. There's other avenues. And there's, if you just look, if, because if you close yourself off to opportunities, you're never going to change. You're never going to find the one thing that might be right for you. Well said. I love it. I love it. And, you know, just when you were sharing, Kathy, it reminded me when you were talking about the assessments that you did, the personality. And other tools to help with thinking about career options. That's what we're doing with our students as well. Because even, you know, for teenagers, sometimes they've been, they've been told by their parents or others, you know, this is what you're going to be when you grow up. And having really had an opportunity to think about it for themselves or to have some of those tools that can help them with learning about other opportunities that they may have never even considered. Because we all grow up hearing about a doctor, a lawyer, an engineer kind of thing, but not all of these other opportunities that are out there. And so it really opens their eyes, really opens their eyes and just believing in them too. You know, when you have high expectations for students and openly saying that, yes, you couldn't, you can do this, made all the difference in the world. And so that was really transformational. If somebody believes in the students and they believe in themselves, the sky's the limit when you think about it. Stay tuned for more of Women Road Warriors coming up. Dean Michael, the tax doctor here. I have one question for you. Do you want to stop worrying about the IRS? If the answer is yes, then look no further. I've been around for years. I've helped countless people across the country and my success rate speaks for itself. So now you know where to find good, honest help with your tax problems. What are you waiting for? If you owe more than $10,000 of the IRS or haven't filed in years, call me now at 888-557-4020 or go to mytaxhelpmd.com for a free consultation and get your life back. Industry movement, Trucking Moves America Forward is telling the story of the industry. Our safety champions, the women of trucking, independent contractors, the next generation of truckers and more. Help us promote the best of our industry. Share your story and what you love about trucking. Share images of a moment you're proud of and join us on social media. Learn more at truckingmovesamerica.com. Welcome back to Women Road Warriors with Shelly Johnson and Kathy Takarov. Got a future college freshman? Prep starts earlier than you think. And the price tag is real. USA Today put student debt over $1.7 trillion in the United States. It's tripled in 15 years. AAUW says women carry nearly two-thirds of that debt. Dr. Pamela Ellis, the education doctor and author of What to Know Before They Go, shows families how to pay less and choose smart. In five years, 95% of her students hit their top choice schools and average $75,000 in scholarships. She gives a clear step-by-step plan so students self-advocate, secure aid and dodge crushing debt. She offers a blueprint for success. Dr. Ellis, you open up so many new horizons for students. So it's a matter of looking at the possibilities and Dr. Ellis, you're doing that for families, the parents as well as the children. Because really, when you think about it as a teenager, I'm not sure all teenagers are thinking, what do I really want to be as an adult? They can't even fathom the next 20 years because they're not 20 yet. I mean, that seems like a lifetime away, you know? Yeah, it all seems so far away and a lot of times there's so much noise, so many other distractions. Oh gosh. Sometimes we as adults take time to do, like to sit down and think about what is our purpose in life. And so for the students, we're providing them the tools to start to think about that and to really think about what they want, what they like, what they enjoy. And it's okay to do something that they want to do and not something that everyone else is telling them they have to do or should do. And it's invaluable. And just like the transformational experience that Kathy had, that's what we want for our students. And one of the things that we do as part of our program is we curate a list of summer programs for them. And so just in the same way that Eddie is offering the opportunity for three days for students to come and try out the heavy equipment. That's what a summer program does. And I have to share this story of our student, John. He was, you know, always been told he's going to do engineering because he's great at math. And he did a summer program. And let me tell you, this program was only a week long. And he was going into his junior year of high school at the time. When he came back from that program, he was like, Dr. Pamela, I am not going to be an engineer. That was like great. That is great to know now. He knew that that was not what he wanted to do at all. I mean, he just did not enjoy the experience and he was doing something where he was learning about different types of engineering disciplines and just thought it was no way that it fit him. And that kind of experience just gave him a chance to see for himself what that was like. And really supported him with then looking at other avenues and thinking about what he really wanted to do as opposed to doing something because someone else suggested it to him. That's really forward thinking. I don't recall any of the schools offering that kind of program when I was getting ready to graduate. I know the community college allowed you as a student in high school to attend college there. And you actually, if you got some credits, it would apply to your high school graduation. That was kind of cool. Yeah. And they still do that a lot. Here in the US, around the country, they have those heights of programs that they refer to often as college credit plus. And that is one way for sure. And I highly, highly recommend summer programs because they can really help students learn how to be independent, build some self advocacy skills and also career exploration. And it's in an environment that's low stakes and it's really about exploring. So you happen to really invest in a whole lot and it gives them something creative to do in the summertime because kids in the summer oftentimes may just be hanging out. And that's about it. But this gives them something a little bit more constructive, help build their interpersonal skills as well. And I love them. I love them. I actually, even though this was many years ago, I did a summer business program and then I did a summer free med program when I was in high school and they helped me tremendously. They helped me tremendously. You offer a lot for parents and students. Do you have maybe some nuggets, maybe a good template on what parents and students need to think about in terms of college education or direction? Yes, I do. And I would love to offer it to your listeners. What I have is the college confidence blueprint. And what it is is a guide for what to do each year of high school so that you are positioned not only for your teen is not only position for admissions, but also scholarships as well. And it also includes a communication guide because oftentimes there is a little bit of tension or stress or frustration when parents are talking with their kids about college. Sometimes their kids give them the silent treatment. And so these communication tips can help with having that conversation. And so all they have to do is send me the keyword blueprint 25 to my box on LinkedIn. And that's Dr. Pamela Ellis, D-R-P-A-M-E-L-A-E-L-L-I-S. And I will send it right over to them blueprint 25. Thank you so much. What a great template. I wish I'd had that. Yeah, no kidding. Hey, right. Well, your listeners can have it now. I still wonder what I'm going to be when I grow up, you know. I know me too. I know, I think I should have had a better game plan because I think you end up taking a lot of college classes too, that you have to fill so many credit hours. You may take a class that isn't necessarily going to even fit with what you want to do for a living. Yes. And students end up wasting money on a lot of classes that, well, maybe because they couldn't get into another class, they end up taking a class that just is within the general matriculation requirements. I have these big words and all of that. It isn't something that is going to help them necessarily, but they have to take it, you know. You know, I am chuckling as you are saying that because I certainly thought that that was the case when I was in college and I just remember having the idea that I'm just going to major in what I enjoy and not worry about it. I'm not going to worry about it. I ended up majoring in linguistics. One of the classes I had to take was called artificial intelligence and linguistics. Who would have ever thought that I would know anything or ever use anything with artificial intelligence because it was the full name back then. And then I worked for this artificial intelligence publishing company. They liked the fact that I had had that course. So I worked with them. They published AI textbooks back then. And this was in the late 80s. Fast forward, I was interviewing for a position in investment banking. And I was having this interview with the guy. And let me tell you, Shelley and Kathy, this interview was not going well at all. I could tell that this guy felt like he was wasting his time meeting with me. And so he asked me something about my major in college because he's used to having people who would major in finance or business. But, you know, my undergraduate institution doesn't have a business major undergrad. I majored in linguistics. So I started talking with him about it and what I had learned from it. And let me tell you, that conversation turned completely around and he ended up being my biggest advocate. Yes, he did. And that was really the first time I had used anything I had learned in linguistics. But now fast forward today. And so much of what I learned then that I never thought I would apply again. I mean, I've been using it. And it's made such a difference. And I think that oftentimes in liberal arts, what they're preparing you for is to think creatively. They're teaching you how to write, to do research and have these skills that can be applied broadly because you don't know what the next two to three years are going to look like. And so that's exactly what it did for me. And I've had my business now for over 15 years and I've been using AI my entire business life. I've worked remotely for over 25 years. And so because I've always been remote, I've had to use technology and be comfortable with AI because I was remote. That was what I envisioned. And it's been that way for so long now. And so when everything happened a few years ago with the pandemic, I was already set up because it had been so long. And I was standing that I'd been using AI and using technology to work virtually. You got to step up on other people who hadn't been doing that. Well, it was no surprise for me in terms of how to do it. And I've always loved experimenting with technology. And when I saw what companies were doing back 15 years ago when I started my business, I just thought, wow, I'm going to try this out. This looks great. And so here we are. You never know what you're going to learn that you can use again. You know, I kept the majority of my textbooks from college. I have used them. I have looked up stuff. Some of it may be a little outdated, but it's like, oh, that's right. Let me look this up. Shit. Exactly. Exactly. Or you have this little factoid that comes floating in your head. It's like, oh, that's right. I remember that from that exam. Oh, I hated that class. You know. You wonder where did that come from? But yeah, that's where it came from, that little kernel. So you can help parents and kids in many different ways here. Where do people find you? Wow. They find me usually through a speaking engagement, referral from another family or online. Okay. Those are the three ways. I am on LinkedIn and share a lot of resources there. And our website is compasscollegeadvisory.com. And they can certainly reach us there. I also see the educationdoctor.com. Is that another way to reach you? It is. It is. So either one, one of the websites again, it's theeducationdoctor.com. And what was the other one you mentioned? Compasscollegeadvisory.com. Terrific. Well, I highly recommend people reach out to you because navigating college admission. Wow. That's a daunting process. I mean, that's almost bigger than getting a mortgage. It is a daunting process for sure, but it doesn't have to be. Just as you said at the beginning, it doesn't have to be. Thank you, Dr. Ellis, for all you do. And I appreciate you coming. We appreciate you coming on the show. Thank you so much. I appreciate it being on the show. Thank you. Thank you both so much. I appreciate all that you're doing and just how you're empowering and inspiring. Thank you. Yes. Thank you, Dr. Ellis. We really appreciate that. We hope you've enjoyed this latest episode. And if you want to hear more episodes of Women Road Warriors or learn more about our show, be sure to check out womenroadwarriors.com. And please follow us on social media. And don't forget to subscribe to our podcast. On our website, we also have a selection of podcasts just for women. There are a series of podcasts from different podcasters. So if you're in the mood for women's podcasts, just click the Power Network tab on womenroadwarriors.com. You'll have a variety of shows to listen to anytime you want to. Podcasts made for women. Women Road Warriors is on all the major podcast channels like Apple, Spotify, Amazon, Audible, YouTube and others. Check us out. And please follow us wherever you listen to podcasts. Thanks for listening. You've been listening to Women Road Warriors with Shelley Johnson and Cathy Takaro. If you want to be a guest on the show or have a topic or feedback, email us at sjohnsonatwomenroadwarriors.com.