This Is Sue. I’m Okay. | 2

A warning to our listeners. This episode contains discussion of mental illness, domestic abuse, suicide, decomposition and death. It was, I don't know, two or three weeks after she passed away when I got a message from her, actually. I had a porter working for me. He was my right hand guy. One Monday morning and came in to work. He said, man, the weirdest thing happened to me last night. Three o'clock in the morning, the phone rings and I answered it. And a woman says, David, this is Sue, I'm okay. And I'm going. And right then I knew that my theory was that she was in the witness detection program and they had moved her. I have no way of proving it, but that right there I was convinced. I really don't believe she killed herself. She was there one day and then I said she didn't show up. Have we uncovered a conspiracy indirectly? Too many unanswered questions. She was scared that she was alive after they said she was dead. Well, it's going to be a few minutes for it to get warm in there. Well, we get all these bodies in there. We'll be warm. Hi, I'm Pat Herndt. I'm sorry, I don't have a 300 downworld. Carolina? Nice to meet you. Nice to meet you. Thanks for that. Jenna is Steve. Nice to meet you, brother. Hi, this is you. I'm a shit in the hands. Well, if y'all don't mind the coup, come on in. We'll let them come in. Let me move this chair in, please. Don't worry about them, Steve. I'm on them. I'm on them. I'm on them. I'm on them. I'm on them. I'm on them. I'm on them. Well, we'll be round that ends. My name is Pat Herndt. You're up in a body man in car dealerships and I moved to Athens to run the body shop for four day-learn 93. How did you know Sue? Sue came to work for McGill Ray Ford not too long after I went to work down there. She and I became a real good friend. She was very personal. And of course, she was from England and had our English accent. It was fun talking to her. And we just got to know each other. We conspired and talked behind the back of some of the McGill Ray. So we were on board with that. What do you feel like you had in common with Sue? She shot Hunter's pistol. It was a state champion target shooter. Before I moved to Athens, I shot Hunter's pistol. So we had something common and in competition. And it was, you know, we just came for ends. I was probably best friend she had at the digger. Did you ever go shooting together? No. Can you describe her to me? Like I said, she was just very outgoing, very friendly. She was probably five, four, five, five, Brittany. She had a track if she was probably just a personality. And her accent really was very attractive. But a keen sense of humor and just a joy to be around. And she lived by herself the whole time on the earth set for a cat. And she didn't seem to have a whole lot of friends. And just really didn't know a whole lot about her personal life. But she talked to me about some things that were odd and kind of through a couple of question marks up. But all in all, she was just a great, great person, really enjoying her. What sort of question marks did they throw up looking at? Well, we had talked and one of the things she told me was she worked in New York City at an office. And she said, Pat, I left it noon one day and never went back. And nobody there ever knew what happened to her. And I thought that was odd. I didn't question her about it. But there was a lot of things. It's been going on how many years now, almost 30 years. And it was a little odd. She was kind of kept everything close to the vest, you know what I mean? But she was friendly and everything, but not outgoing about her history or anything. Do you feel like she fit in well in Athens or did she sit down? Oh yeah, oh yeah. She had friends. I don't know of any real good friends, but I don't know of anybody that was real close to her. Tell me about the days leading up to her death. Well, Sue and I, like I said, we were friends. We talked all the time and I came down with the flood. And I took a couple of days off. And when I got back, she was off with the flood. And I called her up at the house and I said, what are you trying to do? Start rumors around here. We laughed and talked about it. I mean, I didn't see any difference in her. She didn't seem despondent or anything. She just had the flood, you know. Do you remember what kind of flu it was? Was it respiratory? Was it stomach flu? Respiratory. It was going around. When it started, I talked to her a couple of times while she was, I was back at work and she was sick just checking on her. I was saying if she needed anything. And if she was doing okay and she said yes, she was fine. And she's feeling, you know, okay, as well as can be expected and nothing. She just normal, Sue, and she may have a call for something, you know. But it didn't seem to be any kind of crisis. Then the next day I called and couldn't get a hope to ever. She had an answer and I called that afternoon and she didn't answer. And I went up to the office and I told them they needed to send somebody to check on Sue. Because I had talked to her the day before and I couldn't get a hope to. That's up until when they supposedly found her dead. So it was that same day you had talked to her the day before and then that day you couldn't get a hold of her and that's when they did a well. Yeah, somebody did a well for her. He ended up calling the police and I told her that she had passed away and it was a shock to everybody. And like I said, nobody else knew that we were talking. We were just friends and I care about my friends, you know, when they're sick. So I'll call and check on them. And I knew she didn't. She lived by herself and she didn't have anybody to check on her. The dealership was basically her family, you know. The dealership had a little more moral for at a church or something. I don't remember exactly where it was. But they wanted a bunch of people to show up for it, you know, of course. And then it was just real odd, you know, the rumors went around. First I told us that she had, it was complications of her having the flu and then it was complications. She was taking medication and it drank liquor with it. But it was all, you know, nobody ever knew anything. I knew several police officers and I questioned them if they had been called out and wanted two of them had and I asked them if they saw the body and they said no. So I thought it was unusual. Pat, when we were talking, you said that you did some shadow shooting or something. Did you do some shooting with her at a gallery or? No. Okay, you never did that. I thought that's what she had told me before. But I've slept since. No, I was too busy to follow it, you know. But she went on and won the stake, won the stamp and she thought she was good. She must have been. And she went up to Halton City and we found out that's where she went to the gun club, up there. Yeah, up there at a full ward. Yeah, she would drive all the way up there, I guess, or something. Oh, it takes a 100 meter range to practice that. I'm just curious, man. I don't know much about guns, but you said she won the State Championship for the Hunters' Pistol? Hunters' Pistol was that we shot still silhouettes of chickens, turkeys, pigs, and ramps out to a 100 meters. And most everybody shot Thompson Contender Pistol. And most of them, they had rifle scopes on them. Well, half-lords only took them up to the Dallas Gun Show. The scopes brought more money because they had never seen these scopes before. I didn't see them, but they, I'm sure they were top of the line if you're going to want to stay in Texas. One, there's some awards won and I mean that y'all found after us. We found some medallions that we were able to maintain, but there was a couple of medallions that were from China, from Red China. Really? That's what we found taped underneath the cabinet. When we moved the furniture out, when they had the estate company, they found underneath two medallions taped. And I looked at them and they were from China, and you could tell it was China, Red China, and then it had a gun on the front of it. And I don't know if she may have been in some international shooting. I don't know. It's nothing that we ever discussed, maybe it's something. You know, if she was typing the mother things, I don't think she would have discussed it. I don't know. So, question about this medal that Steve found, the one that was taped under the cabinet. My researcher, Haley Nelson. Yes, I had a feeling you would flag that, Haley. So, he said it was from Red China, is that his words or is that what was on the medal? So, I did ask Steve about this, and he said that the words Red China were engraved on the backs of the medals themselves. The front had some images of guns, I believe. And he said the writing was in Chinese, he didn't specify what kind of Chinese. And he said that he had to have a friend translate for him, and that friend is the one who used the words Red China. Can I jump in here with the old person point of view on this? My consulting journalist Bob Sullivan? Yes, Bob, please do. People of a certain age, like my mom, would have called the People's Republic of China, communist China, Red China, to distinguish it from Taiwan. Oh, right. So, him calling it Red China might be the colloquialism for mainland China to him. Right, and that makes sense to me. My thing is just what are the odds that a medal from China is going to say Red China on it? To me, it feels zero percent possible. I mean, calling someone a commie in the 50s was the scariest way you could describe them, right? So, I think saying that someone had a medal from China, Red China, is a way of saying this is a scary person. This is a spooky story. And just again, like if it is that scary or important to see if it's such a bummer, we don't have it in the briefcase. Oh, no, I wish he had kept one. And to your point, Bob, I mean, by this time he and Jamie had already had that scare with the computers, and he had already received a call from someone claiming to be from the CIA. Like, I think it's safe to say that he was already pretty freaked out by this point. Yeah, I mean, how bizarre that it was taped under a drawer. I mean, that would make me feel strangely also. Yeah, the taping under a drawer is what really gets me. Why would you do that? And for what it's worse, I have tried to find something that looks like this medal. So I have come through like archives of war medals. I've looked through eBay. I've like image-searched combinations of terms that Steve says. And I have found virtually nothing that fits this description for what it's worth. Wow, we also have no evidence that Sue ever went to China. Right, that's the thing, right, is that if Steve is correct, and they were actually medals from China, then that's a whole different can of worms for Hussu really was. I want to go back to the phone call for a second. Weeks after she passed away. Three o'clock in the morning, the phone rings. David, this is Sue, I'm okay. My theory was that she was in the witness protection program and they had moved her. I have no way of proving it, but that right there, I was convinced. And right then, I knew that all those things about her telling me that she had been at work one day and left a mill of days, nobody ever knew what happened to her. And other things that she had said that I can't, that old age has taken away from me, but got to thinking about if someone in the witness protection program has lived in a certain area for several years and has created a life and got friends and work associates that they've been around for years and in a town and know the people. How do they move? Do they just up and disappear? And I felt like she called him because she just wanted me to know that she was okay because I would be pushing to find out what happened to her. So in hell, we need to hire a private detective or something. People don't just disappear. He was great. Would y'all like anything to drink? It's half time and uh, uh, sonic. I can go buy and get y'all all the drink real quick. It's hard to turn down sonic. My wife is a sonic hollic. I saw it. I had to buy her sonic ice machine one time. I want one of those. Well, my parents are obsessed with the one that Jamie has now. She meets Sonic Ice. Handstand. Yep. I heard it come on. You gotta tell me what ice maker that is. Oh. It's better than Sonic Ice really. It's like, like ice. It's called flake ice. Yeah, I'll send you a, a, a, a, a, on it. All right. So where did we leave off last time? Well, you see, the exacter you are. I said, no, anything about these guns. I think she said a baby. Hard drives are gone. That evening is when we got the call from the CIA. And I said, I'm going, okay, what's going on here? He said, this is so-and-so, the CIA. I don't know his name. And he said, we just want to let you know we're, we're getting the body. And Dallas will take care of everything from this point on. And I, I really just told him, I said, sir, I just need to know you have the authority. As an executor, I just need to know what your authority is with getting the body. I said, once you show me that, I said, I'll be glad to give you, but, but, until you can show me you have the authority to do so, I'm not letting go of the body. Click. Hang up. Now, Jamie just heard my side of the conversation. My son at the dinner table heard that it was CIA. And when I got sit down, my son is almost in tears. Are you in trouble, Dad? Well, you asked him, do you know what the CIA means? He said, yes, central intelligence agency. And he was scared. And you could tell. He was scared. You could tell. So how long have you known that you were the executor before you got caught in the CIA? Three days. But when that happened, then I knew something, there's something more to this. And I don't understand, but I knew I had to do what I was told to do. So I made arrangements with the funeral director the next day. I said, Leonard, I just need you to take care of this. Let me know how much I owe you. So we were just going to cremate the body. That's what you wanted to be done. And he said, well, I should be able to pick up that body now. Because it's been almost three weeks since the death. And he goes up there and he says, Steve, they're not letting him lose the body. And I said, well, Leonard, have you had this ever happened for you? He said, well, no, not really. And so he said, well, I'll keep on checking the belts into me when it's ready. It's 12 weeks before we even got anything. And it was a bag of ashes. So I don't know if we got the body or Dallas Morge trash. And he actually kind of ran the largest funeral home up there. So I knew a new contacts that he said, I don't know what's going on, Steve. So I'm sitting there going, this is really weird for Leonard not to be able to get into it. Something's going on. Then two days later, it's when I get a call from Scott Linger. That's when it really got real. He asked almost the same thing. We just want to let you know we're getting the body and we'll take care of everything. I told him the exact same thing. Until you can show me you have authority to do so, I'm not letting loose the body. Click. I, at the end, really got into high gear and was scared. I called Slick Alfred, who is our sheriff. Slick was an ex-Texas ranger. I said if anybody would know, he could find out. So I ended up calling Slick on Monday and I said, Slick, this was going on. I said, could you, I don't know what's happening, but can you check this out for me and see if what I need to do. I showed him the papers of the executor and he ran it two days later. He said, Steve, he kind of my office. I said, okay, that doesn't sound good, Slick. He said, it's not. And so I walked in the office, he shoved the door behind me, he said, Steve, I'm just going to give you some advice. You and Jamie need to heed this. And I can't tell you why. I can't tell you anything other than it's this high international stuff. And that you need to be very cautious. And I said, Slick, what's the deal? He said, you and Jamie don't need to say anything more on the phone, anybody about this. My suggestion you is to get rid of everything you can and wash your hands of it. Walk away from it. He said, your phones are tapped. You probably will be under surveillance. You need to be careful and less is more. Less information you have, the better off you're going to be. And he said, just trust me on this. And that's what I did. I was scared when he told me that, I'm like, oh my gosh, Steve, what have you kind of yourself into it? I mean, everything starts going off in your mind. And then when he does come home and say, you know, our phones are tapped. And we had both commented that there was a lot of static on our phone. I think we both said maybe a squirrel had chewed into it a little bit of a wire or something. And y'all are not old enough to remember like a party line where you could hear somebody quietly trying to pick it up and another phone crickling or something. And that's sort of what it sounded like. But we had commented on that, forgotten about the comment until Slick said that we were like, yes, yes, we have heard that. The next day I contacted a state company to come get everything. I just moved everything out of house as quick as I could. Well, the estate company didn't come for probably four days. So I called as many of the people that I found in that book to see if anybody would come. And I got hold of two exes. And I asked them to come to the house and get anything they wanted. And of course, I'm outside. I'm just sitting here. Well, you told them that they could have their privacy. And I got a trinket that was just a little trinket. Now, remember, there are no pictures in the house of Sue. But there was a picture of a landscape and the other one took that. And that's all they took out of that house. And I just thought, well, that's the best thing I can do to help them have some, I guess you'd say closure. Not to do nothing about her family. She had never said anything about it. No, but now I think Steve had asked and talked to some of those husbands and our boyfriends. And they knew no one. No, they knew no one that I remember them telling me about it. Because we'd ask them and said, do you know anybody that can folks overseas or anything like that? And they didn't know anything. Now, you have to remember too that, you know, the timeframe goes to a dead stop. After we try to get rid of the stuff because I didn't have the death certificate 12 weeks. I put it up with this. And so it wasn't like it finished when I said we sold the goods and stuff. But I really didn't have right selling of that until I had the death certificate. I got Leonard to push through to get the issue. And that was the first death certificate that got me to where I could use the bank account. I closed out all the paperwork of selling the truck back to someone, the bank, and given the house back to Mr. Dennis and Helena and Yards. And I think it's either Steve or somebody or Tony said something about that she always wanted to ask her son over a stone inch. And Leonard, again, was very well connected in the funeral home business. And so he had a connection and that's how we got it done. Tell me more about the body, like how they found it, what it was like. Well, this is all hearsay from Milton. And Milton is the justice of the piece? Yes. Milton is the JP that was there. He said that when they arrived, she was pretty well liquefied. And so when they got there, they couldn't find out who it was. And he said, well, at the time, I didn't know her. So I didn't know if it was really her or not. And all we could find was a driver's license in the house of a picture ever. And the driver's license, which you have, shows that it's kind of a blond hair, dirty blonde hair. And that's the way I remember. Me too. Milton said that she had the same hair color. So that's why he said that it's already dead. When I got there, the funeral home didn't have a carry bag when they were just going to roll her out. But they can't get her because she's a maceator or whatever they call that. Body sitting there and they have to go back to the funeral home, pick up a bag to put the body in and then all the body out in the bag. But it seemed like I remember somebody telling us later on that the time period from the last time she was at work until her body would never be dead. Her body would not have been that in that shade. That's the literature, that. When we were just talking to Pat, he said that he had to go to the funeral home the day before they had the body. Well, now on her recorder, there's two people talking. What's that, him? I don't think it was him. There was somebody and she, you know, I don't remember to say there, but if he had a recorder, sometimes if you picked it up, you could catch it before it started recording. Like a phone, like an answering machine? That's right. Somebody leave in a message. And this sounded like she caught it right at the right time. But it recorded this conversation that she had with somebody. And that, oh, I feel terrible. I've got to go to the doctor. I mean, it was, and you could, her voice just said, you could tell that whoever was talking was sick. Was like, had a terrible head cold or nasal cold. And so from that time until the time, apparently that they found her, there was not enough time for it to have been that, in that bad shape, her body. In my mind, for Pat to have spoken to her the day before she died, and for her body to be found in such a decomposed state, someone is wrong. I just don't know who. And I would love to get your research brain on this, Hayley, but from my very quick Google search, even that four-day timeframe that Steve gave us, which I think, I think he was either told by the police or by Milton Adams, the justice of the peace, that it had been four days that she was in her house before they found her. That still doesn't seem like enough time to me for her to truly get to that state of decomposition. And of course, the thing on my mind is that none of this makes sense timeline wise, with what Pat told us about calling her every day. So, yeah, I can look into it. I would think something like that might show up on the autopsy too. The only thing I saw that would sort of back that up would be that they said there was some like phone coming out of her mouth. I also think maybe we should just talk to a medical examiner. I have my own questions about the autopsy and I would assume they could tell us more. Yeah, that's a great idea. What questions do you have from the autopsy just out of curiosity? The biggest thing that I thought was weird, and I don't know, this is maybe a clerical error, but on Milton's order to get the body cremated. So, he had to sign off to say, like you can go ahead and cremate this body. He didn't list a cause of death there that I saw. It's really interesting because in this last conversation with Steve, he said that he actually requested that a death certificate be pushed through fairly quickly so that he could get started taking care of her estate. Another thing that he said this time that I think he said it before, but I don't think I clocked it is that it took 12 weeks for him to get the remains back from the crematorium. So, all of these timelines seem pretty weird to me. But like I said, I'm really just basing that off of Google and gut. Yeah, all I'm looking into it and into medical examiners and see who and what I can find. And my theory about that is they made arrangements with a cadaver and they didn't expect to be found as soon as she was. Because they didn't know I had been talking to her or anyone. Or whoever they is. I do believe that she was alive after they said she was dead. Number one, because of the things she said to me, felt like she was preparing me not to be surprised that she just disappeared. And two, when she called David and they weren't any reason for anybody else to say, hey, I'm Sue, I'm okay and hang up on him. He just thought it was a weird phone call. She said that to you once that if she disappeared, don't be surprised. No, yes. She did. Let me know that New York won the only time that she just up and left. So, you know, it's possible that it might happen, you know. And then I just thought it was kind of strange and didn't really put any up till the fact that all at once she was gone under strange circumstances. And then as it unfolded, they were telling me that she had been dead for three or four days and I said, now, because I talked through the day before they found her. Was that one phone call to David that last you heard? And I felt like it came from her because she had told me about leaving and he never really put it together. But as soon as she said, he told me, he said, David, well, knew his name. This is Sue, I'm okay. I felt like she did that because she knew he would tell me the next day. And I just, I knew exactly, it felt like it was a message from her, let me know that she was okay. And of course that would be, if she isn't witness, texting or something like that, that would be against proco. So, I don't know. But it gave me a sense of relief over the whole time. So, in your gut, you felt like she was still alive. Yeah, I hope she still is. She was a great person. That's going to ask what you hope happened. I hope she's somewhere happy and enjoying life. I was asked one time if she was alive, would I like to contact her or be able to talk to her? And I said no because if there's a reason for her going missing that could compromise her existence, I wouldn't want to be the one that... that triggered, you know, like I said, I'd just put it in the back of my mind up until... when Steve and I started talking, I had found out things that he had found out. I was kind of flabbergasted about somebody with a CIA and all of them. Did you ever hear anything from Scotland Yard CIA? No. No, I was just a... Basically, casual friend that, of course, you know, Steve Barthstale was one that had that fun experience dealing with people coming out of the woodwork. And I wasn't aware of it until years later. Did anyone come poking around the dealership? I asked him questions. Not to me. No, I was just a body shop manager and she and I just came friends and discussed TV shows. Nobody would have any reason to know that she and I were friends. Yeah. That kind of an odd question. The last time that you saw her, do you remember what color her hair was? She was brunette. Well, see, it was blonde. She is a dirty blonde. It's what she really was. And that's what they found. It was a dirty blonde. When I knew her, she was dirty blonde. She was a green man. Yeah. I'm a expert in burden hands. According to Steve, my executive producer Caroline Hamilton. Once Slick told him that their phones were tapped and they were being surveilled, he called the state company the very next day and was like, come get everything and let's finish this as quickly as possible. He did say that he was able to be in there for about two weeks, I think, before that a state company came in and swept everything. But he also said that at that point, I think it only took like two days for him to receive his first CIA call. Yes. And if it's the CIA, why are they calling and asking for permission? Wouldn't they just go pick up the body and say nothing? Yeah. You don't get to say no to the CIA. What I find really surprising is that when he said no, they just hung up. It almost feels like a prank call. I just don't understand. I don't understand why they would just hang up instead of just, instead of pushing harder, instead of going around him. Even though he is the executor, if you're the CIA, you can absolutely circumvent Steve Barclayl. So Slick is in the Sheriff's office? He's an ex-Texas ranger. I think he was the sheriff. The local sheriff would not know if the phones are being tapped. Well, he didn't in his capacity as sheriff. Like nobody told him that anything was happening. It was, according to Steve, because he was an ex-Texas ranger, he had connections and was able to look into it when Steve asked him to. Also, I'm not up on my Texas rangers' knowledge, but I'm almost positive they have zero jurisdiction out of the state of Texas. Yeah, I think so. So if it was some sort of federal agency, I find it hard to believe that Slick would be able to get knowledge about that from Texas ranger connections. I wish he were still with us. We could actually talk to him. I know. Same with Larry Beaman, the computer guy and Leonard the funeral director. They're both passed away now. Yeah. I also wonder how much of it is just, you know, being in 1996. How much Clumzier is the technology at that time in terms of tapping someone's phone line? I mean, who have heard been doing it for decades? So I don't think it would be so noticeable. But I mean, tell me if I'm wrong, Bob. Like, would it be so noticeable if you were, if the CIA were tapping your phone, would you notice the static in 1996? No. Right. She said it sounded like a party line. Like someone was listening into their calls, which makes me think that probably it... Maybe it was a neighbor. Right. Exactly. That's what I was thinking if it was someone nearby. Or was it the sign if he's scared when daddy takes phone calls and then... Picked up another extension. Yeah. I did that to my parents. Okay, I know this is from our last interview with the barc stales. But something that I cannot stop thinking about is that moment when they were in Su's house and all of the computers just came on by themselves. And then the next day, them looking at the computers and all of the data being gone. Yeah, I have lots of questions about this. First of all, in order to say remotely wipe the computer, it would have had to have been like a direct dial kind of situation. Like, way you would dial up to a mainframe. So I think they had to have been a physical connection that was kind of obvious, I believe. But it would be really unusual to have any kind of a high bandwidth, like physical connection back then. Like that alone. It would mean suggesting me she was running like a private bulletin board service or something. My question is, so are we talking, you walked in the next day and that we just have blinking cursor? Or, you know, what did they actually see to indicate that it was wiped? That's a good question. I think we would have to talk to him. But from what Steve described, he turned it on and tried to play around. And pretty much immediately was like, none of the data that I saw yesterday was here. So like in 96, it would be 50-50, whether it were windows or dots even. It might be 75-25. So like, does he mean, turned it on and flying window came out and it said, welcome to windows begin your installation? Or did he mean that my documents folder was somehow empty? I actually think those things would probably stick in someone's mind and it'd be good to get answers to. But also, this is true today. It absolutely would have been true in 1996. If you cared at all about the contents of a hard drive, you wouldn't wipe it. You would smash it with a hammer. That's what my husband said. Yeah. There is no way to really delete data off of a hard drive that's reliable. So it would have to be physically destroyed. And if it mattered that much to anyone, they would fly someone there and destroy it. Yeah. I think the thing that I find weirder than that, I mean, the computer starting on by themselves is very interesting. It did cross my mind that maybe they didn't actually turn back on, that they were on, and then maybe the fans kicked up. But what I find really interesting is the walls of floppy disks and that they were all empty. I understand having a box of blank floppy disks, but if you were going to have a full wall and they were all blank, that feels like they were wiped even more so than the hard drives for me. Same difference though. If you really cared about them, you'd destroy them. You could still restore the data unless they were destroyed. So I do want to say, as I'm looking through the documents we have and digging into things, the official manner of death as listed on the death certificate is death by suicide. And that's from the death certificate created in July of 96. And at this point, it feels like a pretty huge leap to go from the official record from the medical examiner, you know, this woman who I really knew killed herself. She must have been part of the CIA. Like, it's a huge leap. And with the amount of time it took to get to that second death certificate, it feels like a long time, I'm sure. So maybe it's not an unfounded leap. That's a lot of time to sort of learn things or think about things. Like maybe that kind of thinking isn't unfounded necessarily. To me, it feels just like a huge leap in logic. And it also feels important to call out how well connected Steve seems to be. That feels like both an opportunity and also like it shows us something about his personality. I think we also need to keep in mind that all of this time has passed and he has not stopped thinking about this, do you know? Same with Pat actually this story has stuck with both of them for 25 years and how much have those 25 years affected their stories. Pat, why do you think that Sue is a person and also just the story of her death has stuck with you for so long? It's been I think 25 years since she passed. Number one, you know, I've considered her friend, but also the unusual nature. You know, somebody that her age just suddenly dying, there was a big question mark in everybody's mind. I just couldn't believe it. And it was very traumatic to everybody. And things I found out after she supposedly passed, Scotland, Yard and other agencies were interested in what was going on. I just, strengthens the fact that I think that they had a body and two they said that she had been dead four days when they found her. And I talked to her a day before that, so I knew that one right. It's a mystery. Next time on Undercover of Night. You're really pressing my memory on this. You're talking about almost 30 years ago. If she was going out, she went out fighting. When you don't know a lot of details, your mind will fill in what it thinks it should be. I got the impression that she felt like she was forced to give up the child. Did she ever offer any sort of explanation for why she had multiple social security numbers? I think that's Coco for Coco pass. All I can tell you is I never saw her body after she passed. We start piling in these little connections that may or may not even be there. This is a podcast. You can't be lying because they'll check those facts. Undercover of Night is an Apple original podcast, produced by Spoke Media and Castle View Productions. Please leave a message after the beep. Hey, it's me, your writer, host and showrunner, Jenna Bernette. Hey, it's Rizmindosa, associate producer. This is Lucy Wong, associate producer. Hi there. This is Hailey Nelson, the researcher. Hi, this is Bob Sullivan, and I am the consulting journalist. Hey, it's Story Consultant, bringing mostly colony back. Hey, it's the executive producers here. Just call again. It's me, Caroline Hamilton, Sherita Lynn Solis, me, Heather Mansfield, Dranigan. Me, Ted Barnhill. Alia Tavikolian, and me, Keith Reynolds. And our mix, sound design, and original music is by Will Short, additional music from Universal Production Music. If you have any information on Soonite, you can email us at infosooniteatgmail.com. If you or someone you know need support, go to apple.com slash here to help for resources. Special thanks to Pat Herne for sharing his story. Follow on Apple podcasts and thanks for listening. Thanks for watching.