Call These Times What They Are: Janky with Hasan Minhaj

when we talk about how do you feel about the country. You know, there are versions of the country that happen, right? And the new version doesn't make the old one bad. It's necessary for growth. And I think we're in just a janky version, right? Yeah, janky's right. It's a janky version right now. May I curse, Mr. Obama? You may. Yeah, shit is jank right now. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's super jank. Yes. Your dad's not gonna be happy with that. He's not gonna be happy with that. This episode is brought to you by SHIP. What's going on with you these days? Not much. I'm enjoying life. Mm-hmm. Making it through the winter. Yeah, the winter is a slog. How's the basketball season going for the... We have some challenges. For the Highlanders? For the Highlanders. Yeah, yeah. I'm gonna say, I'm gonna say, we have some challenges. For the Highlanders? For the Highlanders, yes. We have some challenges, but we're doing all right. We're doing all right. How you doing? I'm good. I am doing good. But for the world, it's like when you have your health and your family is good and friends are good, then there's not that much to complain about. Yeah, yeah. Where are you staying this visit? I'm staying in an Airbnb, of course. Once again? But this, you know, this has been a really fun trip because everybody's here. Yeah, this has been a fun trip. So my whole family's here. Even Kelly. All four kids. And Kelly, which she never comes hardly. Yeah, yeah. Well, it is her birthday weekend. It is her birthday weekend. So we have, we're staying in an Airbnb that just happens to be one of my favorite actors, former homes. Oh, really? Who's? Oh my goodness. What's that house like? Is it some big mansion? Is it spooky? It isn't. It isn't. And Orson Welles movie posters are all over the place. Books he read. He has the Encyclopedia Britannica still there. Oh, I remember that. You remember those? Yeah. Yeah. And it's got a pool table. So the kids were having a blast. We had dinner together. It was a lot of fun. That sounds good. That sounds good. So they all gave the Airbnb a thumbs up. They gave it a thumbs up. And the kids still don't know who Orson Welles is though. Well, yeah. They don't like movies in black and white, but there was a Citizen Kane poster. I mean, it was, it made, I feel warm there. So it's gonna be a good week. That's good. That's good. Well, it's gonna be a good episode today. It sure is. Because we have a funny man. Yes. And I love a funny man. Yes, you do. So he better be funny. All right. But why don't you introduce our guests? Geez. Put the pressure on him. No pressure. You better come in funny. No, our guest today is Hassan Minhaj. And he's a two-time Peabody Award-winning comedian. Sounds like he could be funny. Yeah. Yeah. If you win twice, two-time Peabody. In a Peabody. I mean, that's just not any of it. All right, this is gonna be good. Yeah. But he's best known for his Netflix special, Homecoming King, which I saw. I saw that too. Which is very funny. He was funny then, so I hope he's funny today. In addition to Homecoming King, you got the King's Jester. And most recently, Off With His Head in 2024, he created and hosted the Emmy Award-winning political satire Patriot Act with Hassan Minhaj and currently hosts the podcast and digital series, Hassan Minhaj Doesn't Know. Yeah, Doesn't He Know. We'll find out what he doesn't know. But I'm really excited to talk to him because I found out in the research that he was into basketball. But I didn't realize. Oh my god, are we going to talk about basketball? How much he was into basketball. OK. You may have to sort of lay back. This may not be funny. You may have to lay back for a minute. Well, let's get him out here. Without any further ado. Hassan, enter. Come join us. How are you? Good to see you. Good to see you. I like the jacket. Oh, thank you, sir. Look at you. Good to see you, buddy. No pressure at all. No pressure. OK. These are new chairs. Make me laugh. No. Absolutely, Mrs. Obama. I would love to make you like this. Now, Craig already told you that you could not spend the whole time calling me Mrs. Obama, but you explained that if you don't. My mother and father will be very upset. They've met you before, by the way. We're at one of the Andrews Air Force Base. Oh, wait. You and Mr. Obama hosted a big event. How were they at Andrew Air Force Base? You and your husband. I don't know if you've heard of him. He was the president of the United States. Yes, yes. For a little bit. About eight years. But you hosted an event at the Andrews Air Force Base. We did. Where you invited a bunch of comedians. We did. Yes. Oh, my God. David Letterman. Yes. They're way more famous. David Letterman. Because you're like, I don't remember this. Let me. But now I just like hear that one. I'm giving you credits. The guy named David Letterman. John Mulaney. Very. Yeah, yeah. How many comedians? I'm going to keep listening. John Stewart. Much more famous than me. Mike Waviglia. He's about where I'm at. And yeah, we did. We performed for the troops there at Andrews Air Force Base. Oh, neat. Yeah. And so I brought my parents. My mother works at the VA. So she's worked at the VA for a very long time. And then they got to. That's what I was getting at. It was like they must be in connection with veterans or veterans of some sort. That's what I thought. But I'm also like, I will unapologetically do a plus two. They don't have to be connected. But this is like with the presidency, you just didn't get a plus two. It wasn't. You couldn't just like. Really? No, no. I mean, there's all the security and the vetting and all that. So your parents probably were invited because of their status. Big shots. Maybe. Big shots. I mean, Mrs. Obama, I mean, I can give you all the tricks. I'm sure you're aware. If you just reply all to the thread early enough. And then everybody's on it. Yeah. Yeah. And then as long as you say. So that place wasn't as secure as I thought. No. No. I mean, my dad was backstage in the green room. And he was just walking up to everybody. He walked up to David Letterman. It was pretty awesome. What did you say? So all the comedians, obviously David Letterman legend. But what's great is for my dad, immigrated to the United States in 1982, organic chemist for 35 years for the state of California. So he kind of treated the backstage the same way he would treat like Costco on a weekend. Are those khakis? So he was like, is that David Letterman? And so all the comedians, me, Malini, or Biglia, we are treating him like. He's the kid. Yeah. He's on the Mount Rushmore of comedy. And my dad's like, he's interviewed a lot of people. So my dad goes up to him and he's like, hey, who's the favorite president you've ever interviewed? He's like, did you interview Richard Nixon? Yeah. So Najmi got right to it. And I really thought where my dad, obviously, where he placed the joke, where he placed the bit, I thought it was quite brilliant to just get right to it. Because you've gotten this of like, who have you met before? But my dad was like, Richard Nixon. There's a good right to it. So what did Dave say? Dave was like, nobody's really asking me about Nixon. And so they're just having this long conversation about Nixon and Watergate. And it was really awesome. And then all these comedians that I really admire were like, who's that? Yeah, who's this Indian man talking to this old dude who looks like Abraham Lincoln? I was like, oh, that's Najmi Menah. I was talking to David Letterman. So did you? Is he a comedian? My dad? I know he's an engineer. He's an organic chemist. But he does see heaven. Yeah. He does think he's a comedian. But also, if you meet comedians, they'll tell you, they're not even the funniest person in their family. No, that's right. I'm not the funniest person. 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I mean, I know you've talked about this a bit, but your father's an engineer. My father's an organic chemist. An organic chemist, which is even more smart guy stuff. And then my mother is a physician. I didn't even know it was a thing, to be quite honest. I didn't know it was an industry that paid money, that you could make a living from it. Also, I grew up in Davis, California, not to brag. It's the closest city over Sacramento. Again, not trying to city drop and not trying to be elitist. We have two malls. There's a lot, there's a lot happening there. You see Davis, my former alma mater. But so show biz and Hollywood felt a million miles away. To be honest, my first love was basketball. I really, that was unlike my vision board. I really wanted to play varsity basketball. Did you think you could go pro? When you're in second or third grade, when you're doing the book report, I'm doing the book report. This is what I'm, did you wear, I have the walk around with the ball and wristbands. I did have the wristbands and I would, yeah, I would beg mom, like every year. Did you play in high school? I played in high school. I played freshman and JV. I didn't make varsity. That's okay. I don't want to be dishonest. That's all right. But I just try. He was about to be, and then he thought who he's talking to, and he's like, he could probably check. Yeah, check. No, but everything, what's really cool about it is, comedians tend to be very heady people, but if you, there's something really beautiful in having a sport or an activity that articulates what you do in real life. So you can get in your head about a lot of stuff. That's the difficulty of modernity and the difficulty of adulthood I found. You can spend all this time worrying, not worrying, but what's really great I found with basketball is, and then later in comedy, you learn a lot about yourself. So you learn about how tall you are, how strong you are, how to position yourself in relation to someone else. I sized you up as soon as you walked in. I was like, okay, he's much taller than me, but I could probably get underneath there. Is that how you sized people up? It's basically what you can get away with on the court. So how do you size me up? I don't play. Do you size me up in the same way? Did you think I could get around her? Well, see, I did try to go out to WNB Player once, and she did swap the SHIT out of me. So this is on Getty Images. Yeah, I went at Asia Wilson, and it was the MVP of the WNB. She sent my stuff into the side lines. All you have to do is be sweaty, and then try and bump into her. You know, that's the thing. I'm tall, but the thing, and we went to the All-Star game, and the biggest thing that I saw was like, they're all, there's so much pushing. There's a lot of pushing. Is that what you noticed? It's just, that big guy just pushed, that other big guy, I would be done. It's like, once I got pushed in the back once, and didn't know about it, I'd be like, I'm going. Can I say something where I really felt like Kismet and Destiny was on your side, Mrs. Obama? So for those... If you keep saying Mrs. Obama, we're gonna be here all night. Can you give me an alt in comedy? We call it an alt. Give me an alt. I cannot call her Michelle. Here, you can call her Michelle. You can call her Mish. You can call her M-O. That's right, Nick. Mish. Moe, that's what, they call me Moe. They call me Moe. Mighty Moe. So, Moe, when you were at the game, there was a possession where the ball came into the stance. Oh, yes. And your husband, I mean, this was out of a romantic comedy. It was, it was good. Straight up. Because all I saw was ball and big guy coming my way. And I'm coordinated, but I was like, I'm just dumbfounded. But how many of these highlight reels have you seen where a basketball player goes diving into the crowd, jumps on our first lady? Right. That could have happened. She could have had popcorn. She could have been drinking a soda. There's a million different ways this could have gone horribly. And then for him to just be like, oh, oh, here you go. My honey. Yeah. And then Devin Booker comes in for a, it's just like. Poetic. It's poetic. Yeah. So the, the Plinko ball of possibilities always seemed to just align with like the most charismatic romantic possibility. Cause I've, I've go to Nick games and dudes have fallen on me. I've like tried to catch them. I missed the ball. So anyway, Devin just, I was quite envious of them. We digress. We digress. But, but what I love about, what I loved about really loving it as a kid is you also learn how to win graciously and lose graciously. You also understand that losing is a part of it. And as I pursued a career in show business too, understanding that failure is just a part of it. But, but the other part of it is also understanding and this is where I couldn't get to the varsity level coach. And I'm going to call you coach now cause you've coached in the league level is what really got to me is during summer league, during AAU, I would miss a shot or two. And then I would start to get in my head and I wouldn't be focused on the next possession. And so much of life is, is just being like, whatever happened, that's over. You literally have the ball right now and you have to figure out, you simultaneously have to be present, but also kind of anticipate what could happen in the future and make this possession count. And I didn't realize that how useful that was in comedy, which is if you do multiple sets a night, most comedians working in New York City will do three, four, five sets a night. If you had a bad early show, let it go. Now you have to read where the room is at right now. That's your next possession and adjust accordingly. And the best comedians are able to just let that previous show go and be completely in the moment. And then also be able to bomb graciously. Like, all right, I missed that free throw, I had a bad set, like it happens. What was your first bomb? Do you, I don't know, you remember it, you know? And what did it feel like? And did you just go blank? Was that the kind of thing where you just forget what you're saying? He was trying to forget it. No, no, no, you feel it. No, no, no, when you bomb, you feel it. It stays, it's scar. It's also because people are staring at you. Yes, yes. They let you know. You're right. You know how there's that old saying where everyone's like, nobody's thinking about you that much. When you're bombing, everybody's thinking about you. And then they go home and they talk about it. He was really bad. It was awful, you know, they leave it. It gets worse. You know how when they say it actually gets worse. So I do remember it was at an Irish pub. It was, it actually was really humbling because my first few shows were amazing. Like, and that feeling was really incredible. And that feeling of finding your thing is something that I was chasing my entire life. And my first few shows went really, really great. And then I think it was my third or fourth show. It was at an Irish pub and I had to follow somebody and then people were leaving. So when you do some of these pub shows, people are watching again. There's a lot of other variables out of your control and you have to learn how to not only have your set, but you have to corral the room to pay attention to where you are. And it went very poorly. And yeah, an older comedian told me, just get on stage, book another show as quickly as you possibly can. Get back on the horse. Yeah, just get back on. That way you can make that a memory ASAP. How were you when you started? I was 18, yeah. You were 18. Yeah, I was just in college. I didn't know, again, it was through just complete happens to dance. Funny enough, I got into it through my computer's teacher. So I was a bit, I was quite a chattermouth. I was a bit of a nuisance in class. High school. High school. So my computer's teacher. I can't see that. Can't picture that. My computer's teacher, and this is dating me a little bit. I don't know if you guys remember. Because it's called a computer's teacher. It's called computer's teacher, yeah. That's... The web professor is telling me, but I would always have this like, I would be very talkative and very loud in the back of class, and I couldn't pay attention. I'd have nine different ideas going at once. And so Ms. Takayuchi had to give me at times detention, and it started adding up. And Ms. Takayuchi is a Japanese woman, so she knows Indian culture very well. And she goes, you know, if I keep giving you detention, I have to suspend you, which means I have to call your parents. And I was like, I mean, you could hit me with a ruler. Like you could belt me. There's a lot of different things. You could tar and feather me in the quad. There's so many other things you could do. Ms. T, besides call my mom and dad. Like calling my mom and dad is essentially like... You just suicide. Yeah, it's a dead sentence. For sure. It's like send me to a Thai black site. Like I'm never coming home. So Ms. T said, look, there's this thing called FBLA, Future Business Leaders of America. There's a... We go on these competitions, but there's a competition called impromptu public speaking. I know you don't do your homework, and I know you have attention issues. Impromptu public speaking allows you to make it up as you go along. And I was like, oh, this is amazing. Sign me up. So Ms. T took me to these competitions and helped coach me through it. And at the competitions for impromptu public speaking, you have to take the affirmative position or the negative position on something. And I just found if you make fun of the person, you're competing against. No, if you make fun of what's happening in the room. So like, for example, like, I remember one of our first competitions. You were a bully. Yeah. Wait, wait. Wait, no. I was like, no, no, no. Is Gary Payton a bully? Absolutely. Okay. So like, what are the first... I was like a sophomore in high school. And they make you debate these things that a 15-year-old shouldn't be debating. So it was like, we're competing in Reading, California, which is even further. You're damn near in Oregon. Right. Okay, so we're in Reading, California. And they were like, a city initiative has been raised to renovate this gymnasium or not. However, if we use the city's funds, it will take money away from whatever the library. You have to argue for the gym and you have to argue for the library. So I got up there and I was just like, I basically was like, look, me and him are 15. We shouldn't have a position on this right now. We both got dropped off here. We don't know what a budget is because our parents essentially pay for everything. Also, I think his dad's one of the judges. So that's like a clear conflict of interest. So why are we even having this debate when like this should be illegal? And so like the judges are, they just started laughing. And then I think I won, but what I do remember is after we finished, one of the judges came up to me and was like, hey man, I really hate judging these things. I actually judge these things because I have my son on the weekend and I have to spend time with him. But you made it really, really fun. And that was really awesome. And then Ms. Takiyuchi told me on our drive back to Davis, she was like, you're really, you kind of have this gift of gab and it's useful. And you could not say things in class and say things here. That would be very, very beneficial to me. What a good teacher, Mrs. T. In touch with Mrs. T. I recently got her phone number and I've been trying to get a hold of her. Yeah, so she retired, but Mrs. T is life changing. And I just wanna let her know because the irony is she's my computer's teacher, but she's very offline. But up until that point in my life, up 15, 16, and I didn't realize this until much later, I was looking to be seen. The reason why I think I was being so talkative or trying to interject in classes, I felt like I had something to say and I had something to share with the world. And I felt like I wasn't heard. And she saw something in me. All my other teachers thought I was too talkative. They thought I was a bit of a, not a knucklehead, but just he's not a great student or he can't focus. He moves around too much in his chair. And my report card would be filled with all these almost like behavioral issues. And Mrs. T was the first person that said, I think you're incredibly capable. And I think you have this skill set that I think would be really useful and helpful. And she also helped me get to national competitions and then we lost. I lost and I was really upset. And she also helped me lose graciousness and understand how to come back from losses as well. So she really changed the trajectory of my life because I really thought great things weren't going to be in my destiny. So I was talking with a friend the other day about how the FIFA World Cup is coming to the US. I know I'll definitely be tuning in, maybe even putting together a few watch parties. Invite some people over and explain what off sides means for any newcomers. Having lived in England, I have some knowledge on what that means. But here's the thing, I actually might be out of town for some of the bigger games. If you're planning on traveling this summer too, consider listing your home on Airbnb. Thousands of people are going to be coming to the US from all over the world. And they're going to be looking for places to stay. Think about it, the last time you went on a trip, I'm sure you wanted to stay somewhere that offered a taste of the local flavor. Soak up a little atmosphere. Well, now you can offer that to world travelers, all while making a little extra cash on the side. If you've ever thought about hosting, this summer is a great time as we welcome FIFA World Cup fans. Your home might be worth more than you think. Find out how much at Airbnb.com slash host. Well, I want to talk about, you know we are very close to our mom. Yeah. And you and your dad lived in Davis by yourselves while your mom was still in school. While my mom was doing, yeah, school, doing her residency and everything, yeah. Can you just talk to me about how you felt about that? And I don't know what I would have done if I knew that I was going to be in the US. And if I knew nothing was wrong with my mom and she was somewhere not with me. Yeah. I think as a kid, it was, you just know what you're living through. So basically, my dad has a job with the state. My mother is finishing her medical degree and her residency. And then my sister is being raised by our grandparents in Delhi. So both my grandfather and my grandmother are raising her. And then when I'm eight, my grandparents were able to bring my younger sister back to the US. She was born in the States, but then she went over there and she was raised by them. And really what my parents were putting together was their version of the American dream. It wasn't until later that I realized, oh, this was quite different than the way a lot of people grew up. But also as an adult, I think the thing that I really see, and I think maybe I'm making up for it in my life is I want our place to be the sleepover house. Like I want our home and the situation for my children to be in and my nephews to be in is that they have a place that's always stable. They don't have to constantly be in transit. So I mean, the thing that I'm trying to change is when you're a child of immigrants, everything that your parents have, basically like wealth, money or opportunity is a depreciating thing. So if you have money, every dollar you spend, you're actually losing money. And that asset, i.e. money, is the only asset that matters. Your time is valued at zero. And so my parents spent so much time trying to build themselves in this country that they didn't get to spend a ton of quality time. And I'm trying to make up for that now that I'm older. All right, we're all going to, that's been the greatest joy of my career, being able to do stuff with them. Even us meeting over all-star week and my parents are in India right now, but otherwise I would have brought them. It's just, hey, let's just all be together. Unless we don't have to worry about, I don't know, this is a very common thing in immigrant households. You go to Round Table Pizza, you stuff all the red crushes into the purse and we don't have to rock dominoes for Parmesan cheese. That drawer next to the silverware that has all the packets. It's like, why? Why are we doing this? Yeah, mom's a Parmesan cheese drug lord. So I read in the research that your comedic awakening came with seeing Chris Rock. Yes, yeah, never scared. I remember that. Yeah, it was a brilliant special. It was an amazing special. Yeah, a friend of mine, I was supposed to go to a college party with a friend of mine. And he was getting ready and he was like, putting on his outfit. And he's like, go hang out with my roommate, Imran. He's a bit of a square bear, but like, go hang out with him. I thought that term was so funny. Square bear is such a funny way to describe a nerdy person. And Imran was like, he was in his room, but he was... It was an insane thing to see a grown man do this, but he was lying on his tummy. Like he's my five year old son. He's lying on his stomach on the carpet. He has two laptops open and he's watching Futurama, the animated series on one laptop, and then the other laptop. He's watching Chris Rock, never scared. Boy, that's dimensionally opposed. Yeah, but he was one of the first multi-screen people to be doing this in 2004. This is like way ahead of its time. We talk about what multi-screen news now, but Imran's been on that forever. So I was like, what are you watching? And Chris Rock was in this... Oh my God, it's one of my favorite specials. He's in this maroon suit and he's performing at Dar Constitution Hall. And he's being so irreverent. And that, the way he's talking about politics and society and culture and race, he's being so honest. And he's stalking on the stage. And people are applauding him. And so the way I saw it is like as a freshman in college, I had a job at OfficeMax. I was selling printers at OfficeMax and then I'm going to college. And obviously, high school, everybody's telling me from the moment I was in kindergarten to be obedient, like color in between the lines. And I got to see someone basically be irreverent and disobedient. That's really what comedy is, it is a release on the pressure valve. And he's being rewarded for it. He gets to say whatever he wants to say, he gets to behave the way he wants to behave. He gets to say the way we all kind of feel. And just the theater looked so big. And I was like, I want to do that. I think Ms. Takayuchi was getting me ready to do something like this. Because he's basically constructing an argument in a funny way. So we were already kind of doing that in forensics. But there's also something about you that is very committed to the authentic truth of things. Or just like the feeling of it. I remember even in the thing of wanting to say what it feels like. I remember even in like third grade, when people are like, when did you know you wanted to be a comedian? I was like, I'm a teacher. This is in the year, it's 1993. So diet soda is a huge deal. And my teacher, Ms. Anderson, is in the third, fourth combination class. She would crush a 12 pack of diet pepsis over the course of the day. So you're just watching it happen. And I'm like watching her crush a dozen cakes. And in the early 90s, there was this big thing with like kids can't drink soda. Only adults can drink soda. And I remember asking, like, as a joke once, I was like, I know you had 11 sodas, can I get the 12? And she was like, Hasan, cut it out. She barked at me. She said something and she was like, sit down. And I was like, okay, fine. I remember then that night, my dad loved watching 60 Minutes. And it was like this news package of like, aspartame. It may be in your soda, but it also may be giving you cancer. And then I remember being in class the next day. And I was like, Ms. Anderson, as a Santa, can I get, I know you had 11 diet pepsis, can I get the 12? And she's like, Hasan, will you cut it out please? And I was like, you're totally right, Ms. Anderson. I think adults should be the only people getting cancer. And she sent me to the principal's office. And she was like, what she said was inappropriate. And it was all wrong. I felt like what I did say was wrong and it was super disrespectful. And I hope Ms. Anderson didn't get cancer. But she's working on it. But she's working on it hard. But I was always searching for that place to be, articulate how I really feel. And that was what comedy was for me. It finally gave me a place to take a lot of these thoughts that are running around in my head. And it gave me a productive channel to put them in. So once you started, like this is going to be my career, I'm off to LA or wherever you go, talk about how hard it was to make it. And what helped you get through that. Yeah. So yeah, it is trying to make it and show business is a very strange, elusive thing. Because what is it? How do you even define that? So if you're a nightclub comedian, I really kind of just broke it down into monkey bars. And this is where the playing sports and actually failing at sports quite frankly. And also the go figure it out. Go figure it out. Yeah. Or like what is the next thing that you'd like to do? Okay. So you can do 10 minutes on stage. All right. Now you want to get to 30 minutes and then eventually want to be a headliner. You want to do 60 minutes and headline a club. All right. Well, the first thing you got to do is you got to be an opening act. You got to be really good at becoming an opening. So you need to figure out 15 killer minutes that you can do in front of any, you can do it in front of Mike Epps. You can do it in front of Gabriel Iglesias. You can play any room. You can play a white room. You can play a black room. You can play a casino. And then you have to move to a city where there's a ton of clubs. So then I moved to San Francisco, you know, and I get a day job and I'm just pursuing, and I just took it one monkey bar at a time. And what I really loved about it, and I've come to, now I've been doing comedy 20 plus years, but it really did save my life because the whole art form in and of itself is completely made up. You know, comedians, if you think about it, if you want to be a working comedian, we're below magicians, but we're above clowns. You know, like if you can do magic, I'm very impressed. Like I'm like, I took my hat to David Copperfield. If you're a clown, I have zero respect for you. Like I think you're terrifying. I think you are using people's fear against them. Like I think you're possibly demonic and or the Chupacabra. Like you are participating in the dark arts in some way. And I don't, if there are any clowns watching, I have zero respect for you. Magicians, I tip my hat and I stand below you, sir. But clowns not. This room knows what I'm about to ask. Oh my God, just asking. Where do ventriloquists fall? Oh my God. Ventriloquists are technically stage performers. I'll give them that. The fact that they don't do face makeup or try to scare you through the paint on the face, I would consider them to be on par with comedians again. Working comedians. Slightly below us though. Yeah. I feel like slightly below. They're like the ugly cousin of a comedian. Thank you. So actually let me just, in all seriousness, in San Francisco there was a laundry mat called the brainwash cafe, which is literally a laundry mat where people are doing their laundry, but they did an open mic there. And so when you go to the open mic, you would have this like Indian Muslim kid, me, then you would have a drag queen. You might have a ventriloquist. You might have someone literally clowning on stage. Someone doing like a super blue, like Ali Wong would do this really blue material. Then W. Come Out Bell would come on and do this very like political material. Then I would come on and do this like I live at home material. And then people were just doing their laundry. They're folding laundry. But what it, you learn how to get an audience's attention, keep their attention, but you also learn this whole thing is made up. Yeah. This whole thing, it's not even a real thing. We essentially perform in basements, bars or laundry mats. We create a show out of nothing. And then we go away. You wear these traveling kind of entertainment vagabonds, essentially. And it really did prepare me then for what show biz is and was, you know, all these things that you're auditioning for are, you know, what is the tonight show? What is, you know, what, these things are like these sandcastles that exist, but then they go away. I think you're being a bit cynical about it. Maybe you're not. Well, because I do, I think it's the sort of the most clever form of op-ed, you know, storytelling, cultural, which is what we are grounded in. I mean, which is why I think people are drawn to it because it's like, I am, I think comedians are fascinating and brilliant. Weaving together. And I don't think it's made up. I think it is a series of let me, let me talk about life in whatever form that I want to talk about it in a way, because if you were going to say, I'm going to stand in front of you and lecture you about my thoughts. No one would hang in there, you know, politicians barely get an audience, right? But a comedian can weave together a story. And like you said, with Chris Rock can turn it into now you're teaching and now you're educating and people remember it and they'll come back to it. Yeah, I agree with you. But I also what I think what I was trying to get at is what it means to me that was really beautiful is that all of the answers that you're looking for exist within you. You're the source material for everything. So you are the writer, the director, the producer, the head coach, you're everything, the promoter. And it is a really beautiful thing that calls for your own personal agency. And so that's what I think is really powerful about it. What is it healed in you so far? And maybe healed is too strong of a word. But when you say that, you know, the art form is about what you what the comedian gets out of it. Yeah. What have you found out about yourself in this process? I think growing up Indian American growing up Muslim, you're usually one of the few people in the room. Yes. And the great black comedians and actors, musicians, the Muhammad Ali's, the Dick Gregory's, what they showed me that Dave Chappelle's is through the gift of oration, through the gift of using your words and language. You can navigate any room. Yeah. And you have something to say that matters. And you can add your chapter to the book of what that genre is. So growing up in school, I just didn't see myself in popular culture. I didn't see myself in sports. I just didn't see myself there. But I in some people could see that as a weakness. But I was like, maybe this could be my strength because so much about being a unique act on stage. What do you have to say? And being different is probably the most powerful thing you could be if you don't want to be an act that's similar to another act. So these things that you could see as limitations might be the biggest breakthrough that you have. So it showed me in the work that I do now and the specials that I put out, oh, this chapter is worth adding to the canon. That is American stand-up comedy or this film that you're working on is worth adding to. So I'm working on this film right now with Netflix about the competitive world of collegiate Bollywood dance, which is like a very competitive thing at colleges. Collegiate? Collegiate Bollywood dance. It's very serious. I didn't know there was such a thing. It's a real thing. It's the biggest world you've ever heard of, Greg. But we're going to know about it in a minute. People are very passionate about it. So there's these kids that are like pre-pharmacy majors, but they're like dancing at night. And the vibes and the love and the intensity is real. But I was shocked that this thing that I participated in college was never added to the canon of American musicals. So when you think of the great American musicals, Chicago and La La Land, I mean, there's a singing in the rain. There's a long history, but our culture has this deep history with magical realism and song and dance. And there's generations of kids that have basically grown up dancing. There's video footage of all of every Indian kid you know dancing as a child for some reason. And to me, this is like a love letter to the culture. But if I didn't grow up this way, I would have never been able to write this movie and share it with the world. So we're in post-production on it and I'm sitting in the edit. And I think about all the things that have happened to me in my life. It is only because of my lived experience. It is only because of how often I went back and forth between America and Delhi in India. It's only through my immersion as this bridge between both American culture, totally understanding American popular culture and understanding Bollywood culture that I'm able to talk about this this way as this kind of like third culture kid. And maybe this thing can be a bridge to help, again, add my chapter to what the American musical can be. How have you felt the growth change, lack of growth in this country when it comes to the immigrant community experience? I know that's a lot of your stand up. But when you were coming up, growing up in Davis, that great town outside of Sacramento, have you felt any growth in this country in terms of how immigrants are viewed, seen, welcomed? What has that experience been like for you? I mean, the weirdest thing for me is that, and black Americans have been talking about this for a long time, is that there's the America that it presents itself to be and then what America is. And so when my dad came in the 80s, there was this word that was talked about very proudly when it comes to the United States of America. It's the M word, it's merit. This is a country that values merit. And what I'm seeing, what has happened and the actions that the country has now taken in regards to the rollback of civil liberties, civil rights, African American history, ICE, the illegal seizure and deportations of particular people of melanin, is that merit only matters for a particular type of American. I call it white valedictorian energy. I was told just be the best and you get to be the valedictorian. But what America is basically saying is we got to have a white valedictorian. So I don't care if there's an Indian kid, a Chinese kid, a Korean kid, a Vietnamese kid, a black kid, we're going to go down the list until we get to a white valedictorian. So excellence and being an American looks and feels a particular way. And that's very different than what the country was that my dad came to, which was it doesn't matter what language you speak. We're here to compete in the Olympics of excellence and of merit. And now at age 40, I've gotten to see over the course of many different presidents, oh, it hasn't always been this way. Where do we go from here? I mean, this is where I would call, I want to call you Mrs. Obama. Where do you think we go from here? You know, my awakening to that truth came when I went to Princeton, right? Because here I am this kid, now my brother had gone there. I'm a straight A student, do well in class from a public school. You know, the mystique of what Princeton is and how great the kids are. So I don't test well, but I have great grades. I get in, but I get in feeling like an affirmative action kid. Like somehow I'm, you know, I did on merit alone, my merit alone, I didn't get in. That's sort of how you sort of feel. And then you get to campus and you realize, oh my God, there are a whole bunch of different forms of affirmative action that are not labeled. Legacy admission. Legacy. You know, I start realizing, oh, you're the granddaughter of the person whose dorm you're in. Oh, you're an athlete, you're a football player, you're a jock, but they need you on the team. So you're here. And I started, which kind of was empowering to me because I came in feeling inferior, but I realized, oh, you were just making my otherness feel less than when there are all kinds of ways that kids get in, you know. But I found that that is a powerful thing just to know and understand. And so in answer to your question, I think we're still growing as a country. We're very young and adolescent in many ways. And a lot of the mistakes that we're making, the things that we do, they feel very juvenile, right? It feels like, you know, it's just not mature. But we're not yet really a mature country. We're a young country. And just like in comedy, when you're young, you've got to fail. You know, you got to try out some theories and fail. And we've grown up in the winning part, right? This is what Brock says, sort of that hopefulness thing of his that says, you know, there are a lot of dips and valleys in the growth of this country. And we've been on this clear trajectory through most of our adult life where things were increasingly getting better, which is why a lot of immigrants came over, you know, because they saw the America that was. Yeah, what was possible. What was possible. And now we're in a dip, you know. What did you tell your kids? Like what should I, my children are still so young and I'm navigating this new chapter of parenthood. Yeah. You got to meet my kids. I'm still in the put your shoes on phase. Yeah. But there's there's a there's an innocence to them. Yeah. The biggest thing when they met you, Miss Obama's, I was just like, please look her in the eyes, shake her hand. You saw my daughter shed her braids. She was really excited to meet you in her dress. And that's my goal of life. Do they have good decorum? Are they super polite? But they still have this innocence. And I don't know how I'm going to cross. I don't know how I'm going to teach them or cross the path of. I haven't told them about. The fact that they may be perceived as different in this country or other in this country. How did you navigate your father tell you? Don't talk about politics and don't tell people you're Muslim. But I mean, I said, I mean, you named me. I mean, it's really hard. It's a day, dude. I'm sure your husband had to go to that with his middle name. And it's pretty, it's there. Yeah. It's pretty loud. Absolutely. I was into it. I loved that thing. I'm a Muslim. I'm a Muslim. I'm a Muslim. I'm a Muslim. I was into it. I loved that thing. I'm a Muslim president, but I've been Fox News. But I loved it. I believe you tell your kids the truth. Yeah. You know, about is there an age though? No, I think I think what what what you will find is the time will come and you will decide if this is the right time or the wrong time. And it's usually. I don't think it's the same for everyone. Because but for us and we've we've we've got four kids. Middle school, we kids start to sort of separate. That's when they come home with questions. And fortunately for our family, we were always in sports. So I think sports helps you bridge that discussion. And you you could have a discussion about what's happening on the field on the court and sort of help that turn into what's going on off the court. Your kids will you'll know when your kids are ready for the discussion. So I talked about this with my wife. So my daughter, who you met, she recently asked me a few months ago, can we get married? And I was like, I don't know if mommy would be okay with that. I mean, I love you. And I don't know if we can we can get married, but I appreciate you asking. Yeah, I'm glad. I'm glad if mommy something happens to her, I get you. Yeah. So I'm navigating that. Daddies can love you so much. But I don't think we should get married. But I actually love you to infinity and more. My my my son tells my my wife, she goes, he goes, I love you all the way to Allah and back. And I was like, that's pretty cool. Yeah, yeah, like to God and back. So I don't know how to hard pivot from that to racism. Yeah, that's a hard pivot. Yeah, but you I guess the thing is, I would start with telling her you can't marry. Yeah, it's like, I said, I said, I love you. I know it's illegal. But why not? That's a whole other thing. Yeah, thank you. You can tell it just like you. But I was talking to being about this and basically what's really beautiful is is their hope and their optimism right now is is infinite. And I want them to operate from that idea of possibility and abundance and belief in yourself. The thing that I have to teach them is in regards to I'm going to use like they talk about this in business when one is starting a business or taking the loan is tail risk. And what is the worst case scenario? And black Americans have known this for a long time is that when things go south, there is the floor is lower than you could ever imagine. They don't play with the kid gloves with you. There is no real benefit of the doubt. If you if something goes missing in the class or something bad happens or somebody acts up, you're going to be looked at a particular way and you're going to be treated. Yeah, it's there's no yellow cards are going to give you the red card. I haven't had that conversation with them about tail risk of that. Hey, when the when they pull the rug out underneath you, you know, I don't know how deep it can go. And I don't want to sugarcoat that for them. It is real. And they're my children. I love them more than anything. Yeah. But I haven't prepared myself to have a combo with them. I'm just thinking back. I've got three boys and one girl. Yeah. And I probably had the discussion with the boys sooner. And for the boys, it's you have to watch everything. That was the way I started. I start the discussion. Everything absolutely everything's important. And then from there, we talk about the differences in the people in their class because we've always been in a school where we're the only people of color or we're the diversity. Right. And to your point about when things go bad, they're going to go really bad. I'd rather air. I've always rathered air on the side of caution that they know the potential downfalls, the potential risk. Rather than not being afraid to to hurt their ability to have hope. Because kids are more. I think kids are more resilient than we give them credit for. But kids will also let you know what they, you know, when when they need to know the more they start interacting with other kids. It's like that's why it's like staying close to your kids, being aware, you know, knowing what's happening in class, making sure that they feel comfortable coming home and telling you about something the teacher said or a friend said, you know, things will start to come up, right, especially in this day and age where the tone is so blatant. You know, sadly, I think your kids are probably going to hear and feel more than maybe even you did coming up, right, because we've kind of unlocked that that that dirty part of the American way, right. There isn't one size fits all, you know, as you find when you when you are one of only when you are not the majority culture. It is a constant, you know, responsibility to be vigilant about what is going on in the world when it comes to your kids. Because I agree with Craig, how we were raised is it's better to know what's coming and start getting prepared for it. And I don't think that that drowns out their hope. But I think I think it's better for them to be a little like Craig, a little cautious, but but prepared. How have you enjoyed parenthood? Your kids are they're beautiful. Let me just say this, they are polite. They are outgoing. They can't they didn't look me in the eye because they were down by my knees, but they looked me straight in the knees. Yeah, they looked you right in the knees. Yeah, they really did. Yeah, and they were super excited. And my son was wearing a tan suit in honor of your husband. Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. He wanted to stir the country. Yeah, he was wearing a tan suit. I saw the tan suit. I was so focused on the suede loafers. Yeah, the suede loafers. I mean, with no socks. Yeah, with no socks. Yeah. That I was just right. Very elegant. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Very Laurel Piano, you know. We got it from Marshall's. I'm not trying to brag at the Marshall's here in Studio City. Yeah, it's the things that sometimes break my heart is when I have to go. Yeah. So like I was in the edit on something and I'm sliding in these, it's like an insert shot of someone's hand clicking something. My son walked in and he was like, dad, what are you doing? And I was like, yeah, what am I doing? Like, what am I doing? He wants to play with me. I'm going through a bin of insert shots. Yeah, yeah. What am I doing? So those are the tough parts where I know they just want to spend time with me. And I'm so, I'm so glad that they want to spend time. They still like mommy more, but they really do want to spend time with me. And I love spending time with them. The thing that I, the software update that I'm trying to do with them is that I didn't necessarily get from my parents. And it's very common and kind of strict, daisy culture, which is you got to audition for this love. This is thing is unconditional. Now there's a condition. The condition is that you're smart and you're capable. And the condition is I got to be able to show you off in front of other people because I don't have a nice car. I don't have a nice watch, but I do have a really smart daughter and you're my flex. So I can't have you be weak because you're my flex. And so this desire to like, you know, my dad is going to watch this interview and analyze it. Oh, you cut, how could you cut off Mrs. Obama? So unlikable. This is wrong. All this he's going to analyze the game. And I'm his flex. But the thing that I was always looking for was, you know, dad, do you know what my favorite color is? Do you know my favorite basketball team? Do you know? Do you see me? I see my kids. And I just want to let them know that I see the things that they're interested in. My son is really into maps and dinosaurs right now. My daughter is like really into crocheting and K-pop demon hunters. Like somehow she's simultaneously 88 and seven years old. She mentioned something, some character and I'm like, who's that? Yeah, I thought you would have either picked up the poet, the famous poet or the suki poet. I was just confused. I was totally confused. So yeah, I see them for who they are and what they are, but also their temperament. Like with my daughter, we can totally blow the whistle and be like, you got to run line drills? Like she loves the, almost the confrontation. She's got that dog in her. And my son is a little bit more gentle. You got to walk him through it. So I want them to, that's where I'm trying to spend as much time with them as I can, but I also want them to know that like daddy loves you regardless. I don't know if that was quite true with me. Yeah, well that's the 2.0 of life and when we talk about how do you feel about the country? You know, there are versions of the country that happen, right? And the new version doesn't make the old one, but it's necessary for growth. And I think we're in just a janky version, right? Yeah, janky's right. It's a janky version right now. May I curse, Miss Obama? You may. Yeah, shit is jank right now. Yeah, yes, yes. It's super jank. Yes, yeah, it's very... He's not going to be happy with that, but I couldn't find another like adjective. I couldn't find another similar metaphor here. But with each, you know, with each version, we learned something about ourselves as a country. And, you know, right now, I'm kind of digging the way folks are beginning to respond, right? I mean, Minnesota, powerful stuff. I mean, it was a powerful reminder of what a community of people can do and are willing to do to protect one another. You know, when you're not so janky, you don't have to prove that, right? And so we haven't been this janky for a while, and I think our muscle of understanding our truth just got a little lax. We started taking things for granted, right? Yeah. But as you are becoming a better version of a father, you know, all respect to your dad, we already said he did what he had to do. Yeah. We improve upon that with the learning. That doesn't make what you had bad. It just means that you you're noting it and you're making the necessary changes that I think that's what I'm hoping will happen in this country. You are becoming a better version through the stuff that you didn't get. And I mean, yeah. And how are your parents now? What do they make of your life and what you've become? Have you become the flex that they so desperately wanted? I've been told in private they're very proud. Okay, that's right. When I'm not there, they're very proud. They can't even admit it. Yeah. Poor kid. So like all like my my my boys that I grew up with, they'll be like, dude, you always do this in your act where you talk about like your dad dunking on you. He's really proud of you. He talks about you and I'm like, but that's in private. You never told me this, you know, like Mufasa's out here telling everybody else about how proud he is of himself. But I'm in the elephant graveyard being like, my dad doesn't like me, you know. And like Zazu has to come and be like your dad likes you. And I'm like, shut up. So yeah, they're they're they are really proud and bringing them to this stuff means it means a lot to them. So that's really beautiful. The the parts that are tough for me are the the speed bumps that you hit in your career. Yeah. And and watching your parents worry, that's the only thing that breaks my heart is that anytime I've gone through, oh, that gig didn't go my way. That review of my show went for they really the internet and boomers is not a good combination. Yeah, they shouldn't be because they okay, get parent. Hey, stop. Get off social. Just don't let them. Can you take it away from them? So the problem is with 75 year olds and five year olds. Social media is really ruining their brain. It is. How are they as grandparents? Oh, they're totally different. Totally different. Who are these people? Yeah, who are these people? Yeah, who are they? My mom was like that. Why are you so strict? I was like, these are your rules. Like it's these are the exact rules. You told me not to jump on the couch. They go to they when they were little, they go to her house and tear up the couch. The forts, they cushions everywhere. My mom would sleep on the couch and let the girl sleep in her bed because there was a TV in there. What is it? I don't know. Is there a term for this? We should kind of go in a term. We could probably come up with one because it is it is consistent. It's a cross cultures. Grandparent dystopia. I don't know what they because they become these like. Spiritual like roomy poets. Of course, children. This is what children do. Who are we but grandparents here to channel the energies of the youth. Be gentle with them for they are gentleness. I'm like, who is this person? Yeah, it's you would monitor my calls with girls like you're the NSA. Infinite money. They have infinite. Yeah. We're at Target. Just like, oh, you want that leg of sure. I'm like, where is this coming from? Yeah. Who are these people? But you know, the good thing though is that fortunately, they're still they're still alive. Yeah. And and all the kids have all their grandparents have all their grandparents, but I got them. I got the chance for them to meet one of their great grandparents. Which was like a promise that I made to my father-in-law, my mother-in-law that if we get married, I will I will have your grandchildren meet your parents. You know, and that was something that I was like super proud of. I don't know if they fully understand it yet, but I would love for them to when they're of the right age for them to understand the world that their grandparents are. For them to understand the world that their grandparents and their great grandparents lived in. Pre-partition India, the freedom of India. Yeah. Then their arrival in America and to how we got here. I think that would be just a very meaningful thing for them. Absolutely. Absolutely. That I didn't I didn't fully get as a child. Yeah. But understanding it and shout out to Dr. Henry Louis Gates for the work that he's doing. Yeah. It gives your life meaning. Yeah. You're able to even I was able to just see my own life with a level of grace and understanding. Yeah. Like isn't it a miracle that this this happened? And isn't it a miracle that you're related to such amazing people? And hey, that's the hope. Right. That's where they get the hope in a janky time. Yeah. Right. Because that's real and it's it's important. You know, and that's true and it's their history. Yeah. You know, and that's the hopeful. You point to them and you make sure they know this is the hope because look at where your grandparents were and your great grandparents. So that that arc of today is janky as it is. It's still for movement. I think we found the title for this episode, by the way. It's Janky. Janky. So we do try to do some good here on IMO by taking a listener question. That's how we started. We started with, you know, let's give some advice out to the people and you as a guest, we gave you a lot of advice today. Yeah. Yeah. So now it's your turn to give back to our listener. All right. Let's take it. Let's take it. Who do we have? We have Marcel from Honolulu. Okay. Oh, I'm an immigrant and allergy-particle person who has spent much of my life adapting, moving across countries, shifting careers and learning how to survive within systems that were not designed with people like me in mind. Adaptation has helped me stay alive, build skills and remain hopeful. Sometimes it also feels like I've learned to bend more than how to belong. How do you tell the difference between healthy adaptation, the helps you grow, and over-adaptation that slowly pulls you away from yourself? Thank you. That's a good question. Well, I mean, I think we've all navigated rooms where we might be the only one or we feel like an outsider. Do you want to share? I'll you would navigate them. I'm trying to be completely honest. I don't think that I have ever shown up in a way that I didn't feel good about. I've never let my otherness make me adapt so much that I don't feel like I see myself. So I'm trying to relate to that and relate to people who are made to feel that insecure about themselves, that they are becoming something that they aren't. And I would imagine that in this day and age of social media where there are all these signs of this is who you should be, this is who you should compare yourself to, I would imagine that maybe this generation has a tougher time maybe than I did. But I think at some level, when you're young, you are adapting to a whole bunch of stuff that you don't have control over. You've got to keep your job. You've got to listen to your parents. You're new at school. You're new in the class. You're trying to make friends. Right. You're trying to make friends. For me, I found it, there's two things that I was thinking about when I heard the question, which is I remember being in class and quickly trying to find your group. And I thought it was a weakness to try to find, oh, I like the shoes that you're wearing. You're into this. I'm into that too. I noticed that. Is that a Mickey Mouse watch? I really like, you know, you try to find these moments of connection and you may be changing a little bit about yourself to try to please others, but you could also see it as a strength, meaning I can go into any situation and through my interests, through my hobbies, through what I know about the world, I can find a way to talk to anybody, even for me touring. In any city that I land in from Ames, Iowa, St. Louis, Missouri, and Bozeman, Montana, Albuquerque, New Mexico, it doesn't matter where I land. I can always talk to the bar back or the cab driver or the Uber. And they will tell you what's going on in the city or the town. And there will always be this connective tissue. And that's not always a bad thing to be like, hey, how are things here in Albuquerque right now? What's going on with the mayor? What's happening with this? You're just trying to find common ground. And that's a cool, that's a strength to be able to go into any playground of life. And the two things I found the most is everybody says the rent is too damn high and gas is way too much. But if somebody has an opinion about the Yankees, something is happening in sports or in culture that you can start chatting about and find a way to have common ground. But in regards to your identity, sometimes there's this feeling, and I was having a conversation with Riz Ahmed about this, who's an incredible British Pakistani actor. He said, sometimes you'll go into the room thinking that you can change the room. He went to Oxford's, British, he's done about the most elite of institutions. But sometimes the room changes you. You don't change the room, but the room changes you. And I think the thing that is most important is to have the moral clarity and personal conviction that, hey, just no matter what, this is who I am. So I'm willing to get into it with you about Yankees Red Sox or Kings vs. Lakers. But there's just certain things in my personal convictions. These are things I just don't do. And know that, that's your line. And don't change it for anybody. Well, thanks, Hasan. Thanks for appreciating. We appreciate you. Thanks for having me. Those were lovely conversations. Yeah, it's good stuff. Yeah. Good stuff. So you've got this Netflix special. Is it a special or is it a series? I have a series called Hasan Minhaj Doesn't Know, which is a great interview podcast series. And then I have a, I'm on tour right now with the Hasan hates Ronnie. Ronnie hates Hasan. Hatred is the answer. Heading is over peace. We're on tour right now. Are we going to get that televised? We're working on that. I can't tell you just yet, but yes, the fight will be coming to you. Nice. Very soon. And then, yeah, I'm working on this Bollywood dance movie called Best of the Best, which will be coming out very soon. So is that an episodic? It's a movie. It's a movie. Yeah. So I'm very excited about that. Okay. That sounds great. It's really beautiful to also be at this chapter of my career where I can see all this really great young talent emerge and make something for them. And that's been really, really like enriching and beautiful. Well, I've enjoyed your comedy. I really do. You were smart. You were a beautiful storyteller. Oh, thank you. Every stand-up comedian can take you on that journey and land you safely in a way. And it takes a level of vulnerability to let us inside your life. It's really, it's a gift. You had me at SMART. I'm just going to take it. Yeah. SMART's really great. You're funny. You're funny. You guys, this is very sweet. We got to get out right now. You have to know when to end the set. Yeah, we have to end right now. We got SMART and funny. You don't get out right now. That's my time. Tip your barn ways out. Thank you guys so much. Thank you so much. Thank you, Mrs. Obama. Thank you for taking the time and thanks for bringing your family. Thanks, man. Appreciate you. Appreciate you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you.