Renée Elise Goldsberry | Hamilton

Hello, I'm Renee Lee Scaldsbury. Who am I? I've been in Hamilton and many things on television and on Broadway, but where I am today on that note was Shawn Stockman. Welcome everybody to another episode of On That Note, the place where we speak a language we all understand and that is music. I'm your humble host, Shawn Stockman, and today's guest is a multi-talented actress, singer and songwriter best known for her work on both Broadway and television. This is a long introduction, guys. I'm already laughing. You're sitting relaxed, okay? Why are you laughing? I'm just excited that you're going to read my introduction. Yes, yes, yes. I'm going to be quiet. I don't want to interrupt. And hopefully I will, I do use some justice, okay? Her breakout Broadway role came when she started as Mimi Marquez in the hit musical Rent. However, she is perhaps most widely recognized for originating the role of Angelica Skyler and Lin-Manuel Miranda's groundbreaking musical Hamilton. Beyond Broadway, she has appeared in numerous television series. She played a prominent role in the legal drama The Good Wife and later starred in the Netflix sci-fi series Altered Carbon. Right? Am I good so far? You're good so far. Okay, good. It's a good thing. She has also taken on lead roles in musical films and television specials, and it has continued to be an influential figure in the performing arts. In addition to her acting career, she's an amazing vocalist and songwriter having released her own music and performed in various concerts and events all over the planet. By the time you see this, she would have already performed at the Ford Theater. And I will say with assurance that she rocked it. Her versatility, powerful voice and dynamic stage presence is celebrated throughout the entertainment business. Today, we discuss her life, her love for music, her documentary, her album, her upcoming film, and her return to the Broadway stage. She is a mother, a wife, an actor, Emmy, Grammy, and Tony Award winner. Ladies and gentlemen, please give it up for Renee Lease Goldsbury. Good job. Thank you. We get flowers in this show. Oh my god, you deserve them. You know, I'm just saying, like you deserve. Oh, thank you. And it's all about you. But the focus on you. I'm just sitting here just kind of just taking it all in. Wow. How are you? I'm great. I'm very happy to meet you. Thank you. Happy to meet you too. I heard a lot about you because you have a neighbor that's a good friend of mine, and he goes by the name of Billy Mann. And actually Billy and I have a group ourselves called Chosen Family. Chosen Family. Yes, thank you very much. Generation Us. Yes, that's it. That's it. Go get the albums out now. Go get it. Yeah, he told me a lot of great things about you and how amazing of a human being you are as well as obviously an amazing performer and actress and singer and songwriter and pretty much everything. You're like a Swiss army knife. It's a pleasure to meet you finally. It's a pleasure to meet you too. And being a fan from a distance, obviously seeing your work specifically in that Broadway play you might have heard of that I aforementioned. Did you go see Hamilton? I'm going to get it. I was going to be one of my things I was going to talk about because I can't wait to find out. Well, here's the thing. That means no. When it was at its height, right? Everybody was trying to get a ticket. You couldn't get a ticket. You could have gotten a ticket. You absolutely couldn't get a ticket. There's no way you could. I could not get a ticket. If Sean couldn't get a ticket, I can't get a ticket. I'm a peasant. I wish I would have known you. Yeah. Yeah. Because I would have straight hit you up. Like no tickets. Like there was no, there was like, it was almost me asking was laughable. Really? Yeah. Even you. Yeah. Wow. Oh man, please. That's how great it was. I'm not the guy that like walks into the door of a club and expects the table. Yeah. You know who I am. Yes. I'm not that guy. Like if a bouncer says no, you can't get in. I'm like, okay, have a good night. I wanted to go home anyway. Yeah, exactly. You know what I'm saying? Like I'm never that guy. So when I reached out and I asked, they were like so and like knock it off. I said, okay, thank you. By name they said it's clearly who you were. Sean. Yeah, knock it off. Yeah. Knock it off. They said, okay, all right, thanks. Have a good night. So yeah, you know, it's okay. I saw it on Disney. So yeah, that's great. Yeah. So I guess that was the best seat I got to stop and rewind, I guess. So anyway, how are you? I'm so good. Everything's great. Good. Good. Good. Good. I like to start off every segment of our show by getting the viewers and the listeners to kind of get to know the person before the person. So I do a segment called we like to, we want to go back, we're going to go back, way back, back in the time. Okay. Born in San Jose. Where were you around 10 years old? We had moved Houston. Houston, Texas. See? See? Yeah, we had moved to Houston, Texas. Okay. So you were in Houston 10 years old. Interesting because I'm not familiar with the Houston music scene. Really? No. Scarface. I heard of Beyonce. Well, yeah, I mean, yeah, but I'm talking about outside of the usual suspects, the captain screwed, you know, DJ screw and Beyonce and Scarface, the ghetto boys, like those guys, Willi D, all of that. But like at 10, though. What was happening there? What was happening then? What were you listening to that inspired you to say, I think I want to do that? You know, everything. I think I was listening to Heatwave Always and Forever. Remember that? Of course. What? Of course. That was the song that signaled the basement parties that it was time to pick the girl that you like. Yeah. I mean, I was just listening to TrueRMB. TrueRMB. And the beauty of it is there was no, there was no Spotify. There was no way to, you know, you had to either wait for the DJ to play it or you had to ask your little cousin to sing it. Yeah. If you wanted to hear it. You had to wait for it to come on again. Yeah. Or you had to be like Renee. Renee. Sing Always and Forever. And you were the cousin. And I was the little cousin. And I would, you know, always and you know, I would just be singing as a little girl. And because they would ask me to do that, if they liked the song, that was my entrance into loving it. Now, did they give you any incentive by like maybe giving you 50 cents or no? It was literally, but my family to be asked to do that was enough. Very, you know, just very smart. Everybody was like, you know, scientists, mathematicians, just very black excellence. And yeah, that was what I could do. So I loved that. Yeah. Now, being as though you were under that type of auspices was you being a scientist, a mathematician or something, was that pressure? On the table. No, not really. But I'm also not the oldest child. Okay. That's a thing. I'm the daughter. I'm the younger child. Okay. I'm, you know, I just loved music. I loved theater. I loved art. I loved drama. I loved being social. I loved being funny. Yeah. And I, yeah, so, so music kind of saved my life in school, not because I would have ended somewhere terrible, but I would have, I probably my identity would be something, you know, not esteemed. Like I remember being in fifth grade and sitting in the back of a music class and making fun of how the teacher saying, you know, because I could just just imitating her and not thinking she could hear me and all of a sudden her head spinning around and staring at me and saying and like, and like just, you know, looking through me and being like, oh, shit. And then she was like, seems as if we have a singer in the class and brought me down to the front row and and started giving me the solos. I mean, like that woman, I wish I could say her name and you can bring her out from the back and we could all clap. Right. I wish I wish I could, I wish I could thank her. She lit the fuse. Yeah, because she could have, she could have made a million decisions, but she decided to give me an identity that I still have decades and decades later. Wow. And I wish I hope that's happening in classrooms everywhere. I hope we're, I hope I'm doing that with my children. Yeah. I hope, you know, I hope we can see through the ways they use their gift that might not be as valuable to give them an identity to, to, you know, start down a path that is signature. Well, it normally starts at the home and it started your home too. Like your family realized that you could sing always and forever really well. So they had you sing in front of the family members and that's part, but that was my, that would be my next question. Like you chose theater. Right. That's because I only gave you half the story. Yeah. Cause that's, that's an interesting choice. Cause, cause that, that's normally a young lady, black girl that can sing normally wants to get that record, right? Or get that record deal. Oh yeah. I wanted a record deal too, but, but the singing at church normally would have been singing at church, right? Or something of that nature. And that didn't have local plays. Yeah. Local plays. Church, I remember I joined the choir and the choir director's daughter started making fun of me because I think I came to the second choir rehearsal with the same hair barrettes that I had the first rehearsal. So she said, you know what I mean? Like just, but I mean, it's just kids being petty. But it's, but my point is I think God uses these little interactions to direct our path because I could have had a different experience in the choir, but randomly I heard that girl talking about me and she had a lot of power because her mother was a choir director. Right. And I was like, I didn't tell my mother why I just said, I don't want to go back. So I didn't grow up singing in church where I did grow up and singing was in the theater because it was Houston, Texas. It was 150 degrees outside in the summer. My parents both worked. That was a cold day. That was a cold day. And we had to have somewhere to go. We had to not wake up. I used to set my alarm to watch all my children at 12 o'clock in the summertime. That's how trifling. And so, uh, so somebody was going to Houston international theater school and there was a seat in the back car from me in the back seat of the car from my brother and I, and they sent us. And, uh, I just, I just fell in love. I was in the ensemble of guys and dolls at eight, which is why I didn't start there because it was two years earlier than you asked. And I didn't even have a lead role. I just was like, you know, I just, I just couldn't believe that you could have, I honestly, it was the depression when it was over. I don't know if you, I don't know if you, do you have, do you have experienced and never been in a show? I mean, I'm sure you've been in things that ended even if tours and 100% the, the, that, that come down is deadly. Yeah. I remember sitting in a parking lot of like some, you know, cause you could leave your kids in parking lots and hot cars back then. And it was okay. Yeah. Yeah. It was fine. Totally fine. So I remember being in a parking lot, hot in a car in Houston and just asking God, you know, please put me in another show again, please. Like the next time someone points at me, I'm going to sing loud. Please let me, let me get in another one because I just loved it so much. It's the coming together and making something, telling a story with a group of people and the family that's built. That's it for me. Ney was to say he answers you. He answered me. He is still answering me. Can you believe it? Yeah. Yeah. You're crazy. You're back on Broadway. And I'm back on Broadway, but it's not just Broadway. That's the thing. Yeah, it isn't. Is it? It's literally all, because my, because I do so many different things. It's literally telling a story in any way. You really do. And, and I have a list of this stuff. Okay. Like on, on this little iPad. But first, before we get into that, like, um, you went to Carnegie Mellon University. I did. Um, where you earned a bachelor's of fine arts and theater. Um, this helped your path. I mean, to continue. You don't have to do that. You don't have. But it was good for me, um, because the network is wonderful. I, college is fun. How about that? Okay. And, uh, and, and the, and also it's good to be not the most talented person in the room. I, I, I completely understand that. You know what I'm saying? Like you grow up, we grow up in our little circles and people tell us we can sing and we think we can sing. Yeah. Especially as a singer, you can get really lazy. You could, you know, because you don't have to, you know, you just can sing and you listen to the radio and you learn people's songs and then you get up and sing it and people clap and you think you've done something until, until you get to some group of people where they can do that and five other things. And they're working harder. Yes. They're not only are they more talented, not only have they been training harder, they're working harder and that's humbling. So I remember, uh, uh, auditioning for Carnival. I did not want to go there. I didn't, I just was not glamorous to me to go to Pittsburgh. I was like, if I go to college, I felt that I had been held back my entire life by growing up, not in a show business family. Um, and a very beautiful, amazing family. But this is the, my head, I was, I remember being in New York city to see with my family for something and walking slowly behind my parents because I actually thought that I was going to be discovered. I actually, as a child thought, let me just step back a little bit because they might get confused. Like I felt so destined. I remember, do you remember Park and Rides? They sell them Park and Rides. When you park your car and you get in a little van and you go to the airport. I was that little girl that would like smile at strangers. You know what I mean? You're sitting somewhere and some little girl is like, smile. I used to do that because I can see you doing that too. I actually thought that they would be, I would, in my heart, I thought one day I'm going to be famous and they're going to be like, oh my God, I was in a park and ride with that girl. And I want them to know that I was nice. Like I was so sure that this was going to happen. And I just felt like it had not happened in my life because I was in Houston and this other family and this other world. And so when I thought about college, I was like, I'm going to go to LA or New York or I'll go to college in LA or New York. Like my, my compromise was Northwestern because that sounded, I don't know, glamorous to me. But then when I auditioned for all these schools, if they had auditions, Carnegie Mellon scared the shit out of me because I just wasn't good enough. I was not, no, seriously, I was not prepared. I didn't, first of all, I didn't prepare. How about that? First of all, I didn't, first of all, at the time, and it's much different now, but you, there weren't college programs that had triple threat. Like to be a, you know, you either, like if you went to Juilliard, you had to pick, you were going to be a classical ballerina. You were going to be a Shakespearean classical actor or you were going to be an opera singer. That was the training. There was not a lot of like, you know, doing all, you know, there was not a triple threat. And the ones that were starting were just not that, it felt like the three were diluted a little bit. They weren't really that competitive yet. But when I went to the Carnegie Mellon audition, I, they just, I couldn't even make it through them. They were, they were so hard. I mean, well, Billy Porter was, he was like a couple of years older than me. He was like leading the dance audition doing triple pirouettes and all that. I didn't dance that way. I mean, my friends, my friends that are really amazing were students that were older than me at, you know, at the time and they just, they can play virtuosic piano. They can do, they can triple pirouette all over the place. They can sing through the stratosphere. They can do the, they can do all those things at 17 and I could sing. Okay. And I had been in plays in high school, but I hadn't put that kind of work. I wasn't, I wasn't that mutant. You seem like a shlepper. I felt like singing. Yeah. That's it. That's it. Get your life. What are you even doing here? I literally, at that time in my life, felt that I had been lied to. My, and I felt set up. I felt, I left the audition deflated and I felt like I had been lied to my entire life because, and I thought it was cruel. Why would you do that? Because I was like, I could have been anything. Right. You know, I thought I could be this and now I have discovered I'm not good enough and you have misled me. I should have been doing my math homework. I should have been, you know, so anyway, so yeah, so that's, that's where I was at that time. And, and I, I got on the wait list. I got into the schools. I thought I wanted to go to, they put me on the wait list. The last minute they put me in and I went because I was like, clearly they know something I don't know. And so the value for me was realizing there was a lot of work to do and the humbling nature of being around people that are just truly gifted in a way that you might have to work a little bit for. But you noted something and you said that they probably saw something that you didn't know about yourself. And a lot of times that's what, honestly, that's what teachers jobs are for. Like to see the potential in someone, even if they don't see it, but then are able to bring that out. I'm assuming the school helps you do that, right? Because it did. Because you're an amazing actor. You're an amazing singer. So, you know, instead of you being just a singer, you've realized that through this process that you were able to do more and be more and being around that ecosystem, I'm sure it actually helps being, your story is very similar to mine because going to performing arts high school in Philadelphia. I'm jealous. I wanted to go to performing arts high school. You know, I wasn't ready. I mean, I knew I could sing, but I didn't grow up in a gospel home either. I wasn't a church kid in the traditional sense. So, going into these choirs and hearing these people, these aliens, 15, 16 years old, five octave ranges and and riffing up and down the freaking scale. Like you said, he's scatting and hitting all kinds of like, and I'm sitting there like, yo, so I literally just like you had to go home. I had to do my homework. Yeah. I had to listen to gospel music. I had to, you know, I had to just to keep up. Yeah. And it kicked my ass. Yeah. And I'm happy that it did because that's the best thing that can happen. It's the greatest thing. It's the greatest thing. Like, just just like you four mentioned, like being around in a room with people that are better than you is the key. The people that are able to sing circles around you, you're like, okay, cool. There's levels to this shit. Yeah. So many people went through that. Shonda, MJ getting cut from his high school team. Remember, Kobe got benched his career. There was like a moment of like, oh, shit, I'm good enough, but I gotta go. I gotta get to work. Yeah. And the thing that I think is most interesting is the people that work harder because what I find difficult sometimes as an artist is what that means. Yeah. Like, you know, can you please like break down what work means? You know what I mean? Like, you know, I'm working. So what does that look like? Because it can look like a million things. A million things. And it's not, it's not an obvious, it's not a formula. It's not like a syllabus. Yeah. And so I think there's an advantage of being around people and seeing what it looks like on them. Well, I think that's the point that it's all different, but the one thing that remains the same is the discipline part. It's discipline. That's where the work comes in. The work is the discipline. I don't feel like doing it, but I'm going to do it anyway. Yeah. I don't feel like getting up in the gym, but I have to. Yeah. I'm going to do it anyway. Yeah. And it may not be the best workout. Yeah. You know what I'm saying? The question is, is it the gym? That's the, that's the, there's only so many hours in the day. That's my question sometimes. I mean, just because sometimes that's part of what the artist's job is. Well, let's say you can do pushups on the floor and still get the same results as dumbbells. It's the discipline. Yeah. It's like, okay, I'm not going to the gym, but I'm going to hit these 100 pushups and get my workout in that way. I don't want to sing this, that and the third, but I'm going to sing my favorite songs around the house and in that way it warms my voice up anyway. It keeps the muscle working. Yeah. You know what I'm saying? So that's what it is. It's the discipline. Yeah. You know, and discipline is the same, but how you practice that discipline is authentic to that person. And people don't know how critical the discipline is for artists. Yeah. They don't necessarily know. Maybe I think that's something that seems hidden in the work, if it's good. Yeah. But it's everything. Yeah, it's everything. It's everything. Just being able to, the reason why people hit the riffs that they hit is because they've been doing it over and over again so much. You know how many times I did that, you know, me, you know, from, you know, I mean, like you learn, I learned that way. You just, I listened over and over and over and over again as a child because you got to figure out how do you, how are you making that sound? You found out and it's just kind of, it's just literally, you just said it. Yeah, you just said it and it's literally just doing it over and over and over. The repetitions. It's repetition. It's riffs. You got to get your riffs in. I get your riffs in, you know what I'm saying? Even when you don't feel like it. So you graduate from this beautiful university and when does the trekking to New York begin? Right away. That's what I love about just kind of how life happens when you look back. It's always the moment before. It's like, there's a current in our lives. So if you go to Carnegie Mellon at the time I went and you graduated, there was a showcase in New York that would set you up with a job in New York. So that's where I went. I went to New York. I got a job in a show that was going to Broadway and I, then I got another job and I got another job and another job. And just because that was the launch, that's where it sent me. I didn't go to Berkeley, school of music. So maybe I would have been launched into singing for somebody right away. But that's where I went and it was good. I got to New York in a time when you could go see Miss Saigon or you could go see Rachelle Forell down the street at a club. Wow. It was all right there. Now, what's the, because I've never gone through this, obviously we're both singers, but we went two different directions. But what is the audition process for a musical like? Is it like what I've seen in movies in Chicago where you got a line down the block, people hopefuls waiting to get their turn and all that other stuff. What's the energy? You never auditioned for a musical? Never. Oh my gosh. I've never, because it's not, I don't know. I don't, it's not that I never wanted to do it. You didn't have to. Yeah, I guess I'd, yeah. You didn't have a shot. You skipped that. Yeah, I think I did. I think that's what happened. But just hearing about it, like and having friends, for example, like that do musicals and stuff like that. Like what is the process? Like, what's it feel like? It depends. And there's, you know, there's, there's classes, like meaning like classes of like, you can be offered jobs, the same as anything else, you can be brought in to have a work session. I'm coming down. You can be offered an appointment to come in and just audition. You can, you can go to an open call, which was the first thing you're talking about, depending on where you are on the scale of, I don't have an agent. I have an agent in the union. I'm not in the unit. So if you're just anybody off the street, you might just find yourself trying to get into an open call. And you might be in a long line with a number and it seems like a movie around a block and that you can sing, you know, a couple of bars of the song and they'll cut you that kind of thing. Like maybe the beginning of an American Idol thing. Yeah. It could be like that. With, you know, with somebody, a casting director's assistant, like just, you know, weeding people out and bringing you to the next stage. Or it can be you show up for an appointment, you sit outside, there's three or four other people in there, you're standing outside the door while somebody is singing their face off and you're sitting out there waiting for your turn, you know, and you're just sitting there thinking, singing the same song, you're about to have to go in there and sing. And the, the nails are doing this on the wall, you know, and you just got to walk in there and do yours. Yeah. And feel like, okay, you know, I can do it. Yeah. It's, it's, it's, it's a lot of, you know, not saying no to yourself, not being psyched out, you know, show, you know, walk in the room and see what happens. You never know. You never know. Be prepared. That's, that's a huge thing for me is be prepared. Cause most often they will say no. And just to have your own, like just to not go crazy. I just feel like what you can control, you do control. So you walk in there as prepared as possible because you never know what the energy is going to be. Somebody could be on their phone. Somebody could be not paying attention. They could be writing down, talking about the girl that was in here before you, or they could be all in you. You just never know. So because you can't manage that, you know, energy in the room, you just try to be as prepared as possible. And you just got to block that out, right? You block it out, you go in there, you try to be charming, you do your thing, and then you walk out. And the world now is at a point where everything is on zoom and on tape. But there was a long time where you'd walk into series. There was a series of walking into rooms. There was a series of, you know, and the rooms get more and more people to the end, to the end of a big audition. It's a table full of people. You walk in and you, you know, basically do a one woman show for these people to be picked to, you know, either be in the ensemble or to understudy a lead or to be a principal role in a show. My friend of mine named Tyrese told me he was auditioning for a movie called Annapolis. Okay. And have you ever done that? Have you acted and done? I've done that. Okay. I've done that. And I don't think I was prepared as I should have been. Okay. But that's another story. We'll do a part two one day. But yeah, because yeah, that's a bad road. I want to go down, but because I didn't want to act. And but anyway, it's not too late. Yeah, you know, I don't want to get into that story. It's not too late. I appreciate you. What would you be in, Sean? What kind of movie would you do? Would you be a thriller guy, horror films, comedy, rom, you could do a rom-com. I could do a rom-com. Yeah, you know. I think I could do a rom-com. He could be the guy at the end, sings his way to the heart. You could. No, I think I could do a rom-com. I'm very predictable. My ultimate goal is maybe be a Marvel character of some sort. Oh my God. You know, I'm a superhero guy. Dream comes true. Yeah, that'd be a dream. But anyway, we digress. Well, hang on. What Marvel character would you transform into? Blue Marvel. Oh, you we've talked about. Yeah, yeah, that's, that's what I'm saying. You don't want to get in his rabbit hole is a different thing. Everybody look up. Everybody look up. Blue Marvel, Adam Brashear. He has gray hair like me. He's a neurophysicist. I knew it. That turns into like this. You're perfectly. Yeah, he's he's he's my favorite. But anyway, are you a Marvel fan? I'm a character. I'm a Marvel character. I'm Mallory Book and she Hulk. You are. That's what the talk about that. That's right. How did you and how did that? Okay, please, please talk about that. We're gonna skip a little bit. Yes. Yes. Yes. What would you be? I already am. Right. Right. Yes. Yes. Yeah. Life has taken me on a lot of turns. That's great. Yeah. How was it like being in like just that Marvel? That's another space. That's the Marvel space is crazy. But with any space where you're a fan. Yeah, is crazy. And yeah, so that was that was a that was a wonderful thing to be able to walk into the creation of a new show and be a character and have a poster and all of those. You know, just just that world is ridiculous. Yeah, and they work really hard and they've made a lot of they've made they've really just kind of yeah, it's it's literally created fantastical worlds that are really like the soap opera that you know, like a genderless soap opera. It is. It really is. Yeah. And it's a it's a bucket list dream come to mind. What people don't understand about comic books and stuff like that people, especially adults, like they're so snooty about it because they think, oh, it's just comic books is, you know, just big pal and color. Think I think a lot of people do. They still did. It's still don't get it from the read adults now. Well, I'm literally wearing my Wonder Woman. I saw that. That was gangster. Yeah. But but but just from the standpoint of because I read comic books. Yeah. So but some people say that's so childish. Well, how is it like the story arcs that you see in in game and in Marvel, where you think they come from? Yeah. And what and honestly, what's happening in the world? Right? The world is straight up. Listen, listen, listen, Stanley and Jack Kirby were geniuses. It's scary because they created things based off of the world as we know it. Yeah. Back in the 60s. Yeah. So when you really look at it from that standpoint, like they're actually great stories and just period is just people that fly in can throw cars. Yeah. But that's it. That's the only difference. Manage the consequence of great power. Exactly. Come on. Exactly. That's that's a human thing. Yeah. And that's the great thing about the dichotomy of being a hero that you have all of this power, like save for Peter Parker, for example, but he still can't get that date with his girl. Right. So he still deals with human things. Right. So that's what makes the characters so great and polarizing is because man, he's this guy can like lift a two ton building or whatever. And but yet he's still upset about never be fucking up a math test. Yeah. You know what I'm saying? Yeah. It's crazy. Yeah. That is so awesome. Yeah. How did you end up getting the role like just? Oh my gosh. I did a show called Girls Five Eva, which is a really wonderful comedy show on that was on Netflix and and one of the directors, the next project, she was doing that and she called me one day and said, what do you think about Marvel? And I was like, hold on. Let me think about it. Yeah. But yeah, you know, that's what I meant. Like every place you ever find yourself is really predicated on the moment before. It's I mean, it sounds like an obvious thing to say that wherever you are the moment before has led you there. Yeah. The only reason why it's important to say is because if you know that and you want to be somewhere else, you have to be mindful about where this moment you're in is going to lead you. Right. You know what I'm saying? Right. Absolutely. This moment is going this, you know, it's just a current in life. Just the choices. You know, but there's like, honestly, it's a thing like this, everybody from here is about to go do that. If I don't want to do that, I need to go be hanging out with these people over here that are about to do this other thing. Right. That's that's what's, that's what we have. And there's been times in my life where I had to figure that out and one of them because I to go back to like my next steps, I got out of, I got out of undergrad and I went, I was in New York doing plays, you know, like, you know, regional theater, like dream girls and a bunch of really cool things and not getting a Broadway role, not getting a Broadway show. Like that, you know, no is also one of the best things that can ever happen for you. I just could not get arrested on Broadway and I thought I was, I thought it was, I was destined for it. And so I was living in New York City and and at some point I was just like, okay, forget you, New York City. And I moved to Los Angeles. And you landed a role in a soap opera, right? Not yet. I went to, I came back to, I came to Los Angeles, I went back to school. I went to the University of Southern California and got a master's degree in vocal jazz, which is a weird, crazy thing to have done. But it's really the opposite of being a music theater singer. So the game in music theater is to sing is, is you really have to be able to sing everything. Yeah, you have to be able to sing whatever song in the key, in the way that the girl who originated the role did it. Wow. And one day you shown up for a 60s musical, the next day you're shown up for a rock musical, the next day you're shown up for Gilbert and Sullivan, like you're, you have to be able to sing everything. Right? That's the game as a, as a singer in the theater. Right? Don't sign me up for that. Yeah. You know, that's, that's what it is. And you can, you can do, I'm telling you, that's, that's what, that's what you have to learn. I learned how to do it. That's what you can do. And then you need to legit, do you need, you only need to belt it? Yeah. Do you want me to, you know, when to cover it? What do you, I have to, I have to be able to be a chameleon in whatever space for this thing. You got a diverse tool belt. Exactly. Jazz is the opposite. Jazz is, there are one group of songs, they're called standards. Yep. And everybody's gonna sing these same hundred songs. And it's the way you sing it. That is, you know, you, it's all about who you are as signature. Not about how, that you can do what somebody else did. Nobody is interested in you doing what's already been done, but take this same song. You have to figure out what tempo, what arrangement, what key, but it has to be, it has to be your, you have to put yourself on it. You have to figure out who you are. The template of jazz is improvisation. It's improvisation, but also just who are you when you play the guitar? Who are you when you sing this? Yes. And how many, you know, how many notes do I know that's Rene? Right. That's a totally different headspace as a singer than music theater. That's true. Which is why I was like, there. Wow. I need to go there. And another reason why I wanted to do it is because of what you asked me. I wanted to be a recording artist also. I wanted to sing more than I want, and they didn't cast me in things. And so I thought, even if they did cast me, I'm never getting a record deal from being in a Broadway show. Right. I'm never, that's not, that's not. It's a different world. It's just, and also, they need you, Sean, to come to Broadway because they, you know, the name and who you are in your audience sells the tickets. Yeah. So why be the most talented person in the world that nobody knows that you're not going to get the job anyway? Go to LA, get your hit song, and then come back and be, you know, be in the show. Well, it'd be nice if I was able to get in the seat of a ticket of a Hamilton show. So I don't know how I feel about that. So I came back, I came back to LA. I mean, I came to LA to go to get that degree to figure out how to get a, to figure out who I was as a singer, as a singer, a signature and intellect, and, you know, and just write. And that's when I started writing. And I was like an LA musician. Right. Right. For a couple of years. Okay. So in that space, because LA is the recording capital of the world. Yeah. So when did the meetings with record labels happen or the demos and so hard? Like, what was that journey like? It was, it was, you know, so now I'm in my late, why am I late twenties yet? I'm about to be in my late twenties. And I've, you know, I had opportunity to do all kinds of stuff from, from my undergrad degree. And, but I'm now I'm trying to be, you know, Lilith Fair is happening. Yeah. All I want to do is be barefoot with an acoustic guitar, singing on Lilith Fair. Put a flower in your hair. Oh my God. Yeah. And couldn't get it, could not get a rest, couldn't, couldn't make it happen. Wow. Couldn't I had a great demo, my little songs, my little, my hair, my little afro, you had it all. Sure. Couldn't, couldn't, couldn't make it happen. Interesting. And, but, you know, but I was doing, I used to be on the show called Ally McBeal, you know, I could, I was doing, I was a session singer. I could pay my bills. Right. I was saying no to the rent tour. There were things, rent was, there were some Broadway things that were happening, but I was focused on trying to make that happen. Couldn't make, couldn't get traction, couldn't make it happen. So I was dabbling, I was acting, all that kind of stuff. And I got, I met my husband, I got engaged. Yeah. And I did an independent film called All About You. Okay. That we went to the Black Film Festival in Miami. And yeah, we, I mean, I just started acting again while I was waiting for it to get a record deal that didn't ever come. Right. And, and then I got engaged and I thought, this is what I want to do when I did that movie. I starred in this independent movie. After I started the movie, they, they took all, they, they went through all of my original music and populated the soundtrack. Right. And I thought, this is what I'm supposed to do. I'm supposed to write movies, act and star in them, and then write the music. I'm so satisfied. This is so great. Right. And so I got engaged. I was going to be a movie maker. And then the Lion King called. Wow. The Lion King, they just had an audition for, you know, replacements for the Broadway company. I went to the audition and I got the role of Nala in the Lion King on Broadway. It brought me back to New York City, and I have not left. And that was in 2002. Damn. Anyway, you can't ask me an open-ended question like, how did you get this far? I'm just going to try to speed up. No, no, it's fine. No, take your time. Because even that, like that's, that's a whirlwind of just places, events, and, and workings, all in, in, in all of that happening. But again, you got a daytime Emmy. I didn't. You didn't. No, but I shoulda. No, but I didn't. You didn't. I didn't. So yeah, so I came back, I came to New York. I was starring in the broad, the broad, five years into the Lion King company. I'm, I'm, I'm Nala. Broadway debut, scary, exciting. Got, I got married. I had an audition for a soap opera called One Life to Live. I went and I got the job. Right. And I, so I did double duty for a couple months. And then I left the Lion King and I went and I was Evangeline Williamson on One Life to Live for four years. My character did really well. I got in a really great love triangle and it was a wonderful, you know, that's, that's a great love triangle. I got in a really great love triangle. I don't know that goes together. But that's the game. And it was the best place to learn, you know, at, you know, it was the greatest acting class in the whole wide world because the, the pace is so fast. Yeah. The material is all over the, but you go from, you know, I'm blind one day and the next day I'm a serial killer. The next day I'm saying that whatever got my heart broken. You know, there's a space straight up, straight up soft porn. The love scene. Right. And, but, you know, it's the best actors in the world and it's really super, and it was just, it was great training. And then also most importantly, you have to learn how to act in such a way that no matter what they make you do, the audience roots for you. And that's probably the superpower for any entertainer. Yeah. Is that whatever you're doing, whether you wrote an album or you were in a Broadway show or you're in this comedy series or you're, what, putting out a documentary or whatever, that the people will root for you. Right. Right. Or, you know, so that, that's, that's what I learned there. And then when we keep talking, you know, and stuff. No, please. Because I was going to ask you, you mentioned when you were doing a recording and everything, like there were phone calls at being made, one of them was rent. Oh yeah. Saying no to things. Yeah. You were saying no to things, but you eventually said yes to. Yes. Good question. The no for rent the first time is they wanted me to be in the ensemble and understudy one of the roles in the show. And, and not, I just felt like I didn't want to do that. Right. I also knew, well, I have, you know, the world is small and I knew the girl that was playing the role and I knew she was going to get married and she was going to leave the show for a couple weeks and they wouldn't guarantee that I would go on. I mean, I just knew, I just, my heart, I just, my heart knew and it's hard to say. Yeah. That's why sometimes no is easier than yes. Yeah. Because it's hard to not second guess yourself when you say no to something. Right. Right. It's true. But I felt like I'm on a mission to accomplish something and I just thought that wasn't the right time and life worked out that for me that it wasn't. Yeah. Because when I was on one life to live the doctor from Sweden who gave me my eyesight back. Sweden. His partner is, was Michael Greif and Michael Greif was the director of rent. And one day he said to me on set, do you know Michael Greif? And I said, yes. And he said, he thinks you're wonderful. Would you ever want to be in rent? And I said, yes. But I said, if I can play Mimi, which is, which is another, you know, there was like the roles were typecast, the black girls used to play Joanne, the Hispanic girls played Mimi, the white girls played Maureen. I mean, it was a thing. And I just get tired of it. Right. I got tired of always having to be the sassy, smart. Right. Right. I mean, I can do it, but that's acting. It really wasn't who I was. Yeah. And I was like, I want to play, I wanted to be this. That's who I was right for. Yeah. And so I got a phone call one day asking me if I wanted to be in the closing company of rent. That's awesome. I'm Broadway. And I said, yes. And it was one of the greatest experiences of my life. That's amazing. And breaking barriers in that sense that you know, you weren't the typical stereotypical. Well, by then there were actually a lot of black girl Mimis because it was towards the end. Okay. They get a little looser with the roles. Yeah. But what was amazing, and I'd love to weave this in. And that's just what I think is, which is kind of my mission in life right now is to not speak about career outside of family. And what was happening at that time also is that I was trying to have children. So I'm married. I've been married for a couple of years. I really wanted to have a family. And I was really, I was trying to figure out while I was trying to make this career, how am I going to bring some babies into this world? And it had been hard. We had had several miscarriages. I wasn't sure if I was having miscarriages because I was so busy, because I was doing double duty, doing plays at night and daytime TV during the day. I just wasn't sure what my road to children was going to be. And I had a lot of guilt and frustration about it. And it was hard to know what the next, I mean, people would ask me to do things and I would say things like, I really want to do it, but I might do IVF and I'm not exactly sure where I'll be at the time. Or maybe I'll be pregnant, but I might not be pregnant. But I mean, I was having these kinds of conversations. People probably thought I was crazy. But I wasn't sure, because I, you know, it was just a hard time to try to figure out how am I going to make this happen? What was that like for your husband and the, the, the conversations that you guys had to have at that time, at that time when you're trying to develop a, a, a, a sequence of normalcy with a family, yet the phone doesn't stop ringing. Well, the phone doesn't ring all the time. I wish it was that good, but that's a great question. When it comes to the family, I'm just so blessed that my husband was always like, God's going to give us a baby or he's not, we're gonna be fine. You know, I was the one that was like, we have to have this. He wanted it, but he just was like, I love you. This is going to happen for us. Or it's not. And that set me free a little bit. Just, you know, supportive, just, and believing, just faith and supportive. That's, that's really how I characterize him. And so I didn't have the pressure of disappointing him, which would have been harder. It was always, it was the disappointing of myself that I had to manage, you know? That's, that was huge. So I never felt like, Oh, if I take this job, he's going to be disappointed because we need to work on this. It was always me, like, I need to work. Is this right? Should I be? What should I, it was the constant second guessing myself. And fortunately, he was just like, he reassured you. He was a reassurance. That's awesome. Isn't that awesome? Yeah. I mean, that's, I'm sure when he met you and when you guys decided to get engaged, he had to know what he was signing up for. He, to some degree. I don't think you know. That's what's so crazy. You don't. But at the same time, when you love somebody, you tend to fall into a person's world fairly quickly. Yeah. Because that's what you want to do. Like you're trying to know the inner workings of a human and what makes the person get up in the morning, the passion. And with someone like you, I'm sure that wasn't hard to see. So, so to see that, he understood, okay. But what you don't know unless you meet somebody that's already successful, you don't know if it's going to work out. No, you never know. I think people put way too much pressure on the concept or the ideal of a relationship. What it should be. You know, it's got to be like this because I came from here and that and the fuck. Like, you know what I'm saying? Like life is not that ever, especially when it comes to two human beings that come from different backgrounds and you're trying to figure out life together in some weird way. Like just the concept of a relationship of holding somebody's hand and say, you want to do this? Yeah, sure. Let's do this. What the fuck are we doing? You know what I'm saying? Like so, so this, that in itself, you got to give the ideal room to breathe. We tend to look at things and say, oh, it's got to be like that. Or it's got to look like that. And that's where we fail. We tend to try and create what we were taught to think that is a happy relationship. Where happy is suggestive, is, you know, it's a suggestive term. It's like, it's more so being at peace with the person to know that no matter what you go through, because the thing is you're going to go through shit is knowing that you got a partner with the same game face that you got. Amen to that. Amen. And that's when you know. Yeah. But you don't know unless you go through it. Yeah. You will never know. Yeah, it's tested in trial. Yeah. But I'll say, you know, when you meet, you know, he, when you meet an actress and a singer in LA in whatever year that was 1999 or something, right? You know what I mean? Yeah. You don't know is she going to be sitting on the couch eating cereal every day? Or am I going to be holding her purse on a red carpet? Right. Like you, you know, and am I going to be Mr. Goldsbury? You just don't know the range of what could happen. And, and it's a, it's a very special person that can, can be at peace with whatever, with whichever extreme. So I was fortunate, very fortunate to have that as well. No, it takes a very different human being to date people like us. Like it does. Like it's, it's, it's a, it's a serious commitment because it is a roller coaster. It is an up and down thing. Shout out to my wife, Sharanda, who has been through hell and high water with me through my ups and downs and career changes and dips and dives and all that other shit because it gets crazy. But you got to have somebody that is at least, you know, flexible and knowing that, yo, this is ultimately they got to love you. Yeah. And we have to not be crazy. Well, you know, we have to try to actually be a human being as separate from whatever the industry is giving us in a particular moment. I think that's it. That's it. Like, I think, I think, you know, just a little insight in myself. I think that's one of the reasons why I don't think I ever dated somebody that's in a business. I haven't either. I haven't either. I never did. I don't think it works. It must work. I've seen it work on other people. No, for some people it does. But, but I think I just, I just don't know. Like I, I, I, I, it always freaked him out because again, us being in the industry, we know people in ways that the public don't. Yeah. So it's like, so when you see somebody, you know, me being a guy and seeing some of these girls, you went off. Really? What do you think? Hell no. Just like you said, sometimes artists can be a little neurotic. Yeah. I guess for me, I was when I, when I was dating and I would, I used to be like, if this doesn't work out to have to see that person everywhere. And that too. Yeah. Like, you know, you're dating them. This was even before social media. Like if it doesn't work out and they're everywhere with whoever's new, you're dating the high profile woman, you break up and now she's with the new high profile guy with a better six path than you. And you know, he's tongue kissing her on the red carpet. You sitting there like, that's a special pain I haven't had to go through. The name works for a reason. I think it works that way. Yeah. I also like diversifying. Diversifying. What Sean was saying is like, you know, the conversation. That too. Like, I know. Yes. Like, I don't want to know about the shit that you went through because I probably went through the same shit. Yeah. So tell me about your job. Yes. At Applebee's. Yeah. Like tell me what happened at Applebee's. Let me know what, what she did. What the hell. Around the food. You know, so I think it's, it's, it's. But I know, I know a lot of people who, who make that to make it work. You know, in a way that's beautiful. There is, I, there's a super power, super couples is cool. Like there are times I'm like, wow, what, what would that have been like? Super, super power couples are, it's a cool thing. I just, I've been so blessed to come home and to have somebody. And also whatever I do, he's like, that's good. Yeah. Do you know what I mean? Right. Right. You know what I mean? He's like, I like your music. I'm like, thank you. You know, let me ask you though. Let me ask you though. Like, do you think that some of those couples go through a period where they say, okay, we have to do this for the gram or we have to do this to be seen? Like, you know, we're a high profile couple. So we have to be seen to me, that kind of convolutes the relationship a bit. Yeah. Because, because now it's a business at that point. It becomes a business and, and it's no longer like, it's, it's, it's marriage already in concept is contractual. Okay. Like, you know what I'm saying? Like, you know, and so to have that on top of my wife is this famous movie star. I have to go to this Oscar premiere with her, but I really wanted to sit home in my drawers and play Call of Duty. Yeah. But that, but, but I, but I gotta be there. She was, you know, general counsel for whatever you'd still have to sometimes be like, she has to go do X, Y, Z. True. But it is a different connotation when it comes to entertainment. Because if I don't show up, say we're married and I don't show up for my premiere for your premiere. Yeah. First off, you're pissed off and we're going to probably have an argument in the house. But, but outside of that, people are like, oh, we're Sean. We're Sean. Yeah. Yeah. Oh my God. What's, what's going on here? I heard. You know what I'm saying? Like, so now you got people involved. Yeah. You're already mad at me coming back from the premiere. Well, let me tell you, first for me, I'm not, my husband and I have a, have a deal that we don't have to come to anything. Our deal is this, if you're not going to be fun, don't come. You know why? Because that's not fun for me. Yeah, I don't need a plus one. Yeah, don't kill my butt. Don't kill my butt. Like, you know, if you're not having a good time, then I'm going to be worried about you having a good time. Yeah. I don't. So, that's, so that doesn't necessarily have to be synonymous with we're a power couple. Okay. You know, if you can, if you can be okay there by yourself, but your point is a good one. And that is what does everybody else say? If you are also a celebrity, I'm, I'm expecting to see both of them. Where are, where's the other half? Right. I'm a little disappointed. Right. Yeah, I don't have that. Okay. Well, that's good. Well, I'll assume, you know, oh, he's at home with the babies. You're non famous husband. Yeah, yeah. The famous husband, he's supposed to be here. Right. Yeah. Yeah. That's all. He's shooting a movie, they think. Maybe they think he's shooting something. Yeah. I don't know. Well, I think, I think, and I saw this, a meme. Is that the key in any relationship is to not find somebody to grow old with. And I'm paraphrasing, but to find someone to stay young with. I love that. I love that. And I think that's what it is. I think it's all about how you view the painting. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, it's, it you, you, in a relationship, it's really about staying as fun and as inhibited, uninhibited and as goofy and as spontaneous as a relationship can be. Because being in an industry that we're in, it can be very routine after a while and tiring and all of those things. So to be able to still have that level of spontaneity to pick a water gun fight while you're taking a nap. I don't think your wife would want a water gun. Just because no, no, we're going to have a water gun fight. Okay. And you're going to sleep and you're going to be sleeping and I'm going to hit you with a water gun. The water skids guys, guys, guys, guys, guys, guys, guys, guys, guys. You know what I'm saying? You know what I'm saying? I just want to take care of some pigeons, but I'm just saying, I think that's the spice of life, the spontaneity. My thing is anybody that's married, at least any any woman that's married, if they say their love language isn't acts of service, they are lying. Yeah, that's a lie. Because for me, I feel like you should marry someone you want to do a project with. Because everything is a project. Every day, all day, we're getting the house painted, the kids got to start school, the kids got to get out of school, we're trying to make this flight, where the refrigerator broke, like everything's a project. And you know how you were in school and they used to be, you'd have a best friend, but you wouldn't want to be picked for the project with that person. Yeah. You want to me, I think you want to marry the person who, if you fall asleep and the project's due in the morning, you wake up and that shit is done. Yeah, dig. That's the part, you know, that's that's you. You're gonna sometimes it's me. Sometimes I care. Sometimes I got us across the finish line. Sometimes you get us across the finish line. Those are called riders. That's all. When you got that you're good. Yeah, you got to have a rider. You got to have a rider. You got to have you got to have somebody that just knows. She heard me. You know, are you in time out right now? Water gun fight or not. Can we get this shit done? All right, we'll tell you what. Let's go hand her the mic or something. Right, right, right. You have something to say. You look like you already on the same page I could tell. Do you want me to go back to where I was? Well, no, no. Well, I want to ask you because again, I'm so intrigued with the theater life. Yeah, because again, it's it's such a like when I when I hear about it, it's so strenuous from my point of view because when say for example, you're you're, I've seen Hamilton, right? For example, and you have to go from highs to lows to highs to lows to lows as a singer, like just doing a concert is hard enough. You have to sing, deliver a line, sing again, sing higher, deliver a line, show emotion, sing. And what the hell does that do to your voice? How does one keep a your voice from conking out from doing eight shows a week? Yeah. Sleep. I mean, when it when it gets really important to me, I remember when we were in Hamilton, it was every you could not miss a show. To me, what we do is like being a professional athlete that's always in season. You just there's never there's no off. You're just always in season. I mean, the all we get off is Monday night. And Monday night, we're typically like singing at a gala or doing something something else that's happening. You're just you mean, I have to just stop and talk about my documentary because I talk a lot this in the stuff where I have satisfied the documentary. Just to say it, you know, there's there's a time, you know, when you're in a show like that, a musical in particular, you're constantly checking in with your voice, like when you're on tour, wherever you are, whatever you're doing, you're just like, you're just, is it there? Am I good? You know, if anybody you're trying to save from disease, you know, you just you have to you're just always in season. Any remedies? Any? You know, they're all like psychosomatic, probably, but like I didn't eat gluten for a long time because I thought about inflammation. I wasn't sure if that was a thing. Apple cider vinegar was something I used to take down from time to time. Dairy. Dairy, I don't care about dairy. I like having a little I don't know that doesn't bother me at all. Okay. But sleep. That's the biggest thing. And when you're a parent and you're in a Broadway show, the challenge is that you got to wake up with your kids. That's what I'm about to say. Like you just saying you're up your face off and then you got to wake up and you got to raise children. Well, because you know how it is when you when you're in a show, when the show's over, you're up like now I'm I'm just the adrenaline is coursing. I want to we could be up all night long after a show. Yeah. I all that energy. But so it's we're nighttime people. But you know, kids want to wake up six a.m. seven a.m. You got to get up with your kids. So that's the burning of the candle. I had to teach myself how to take a nap. And I had to know for myself, as long as I'm up by one p.m. I can sing that night. I can't sleep too long. Or I done work for me. Yeah, that's the same thing for me. Like my group members can take a nap before show time. I can't do that. And then wake up and sing. I'm like, man, if I ever did that, I will be a baritone. What sound like Larry Graham? Exactly. That's crazy. Because again, knowing the stress and strain of doing eight shows having to be on and then in Hamilton, it was, you know, eight shows. And then we get to go to the White House or eight shows. And then we get to like we were it was more in all of the beautiful PR, like your dream come true. PR. Yeah. So I guess that I guess that's the the energy that that helps you throughout the whole process, even when you don't feel like it. I think what helps you through the process is we're just grateful and everybody else is doing it's like everybody else keeps showing up. So I'm gonna keep showing up to like it's we do superhuman things. And yeah, it's and we're and we're gifted with the ability to do it. Yes. And we look back when I go see people on shows, I'm like, how are they doing that? How did I ever do that? It is crazy. Well, now I have I reached out to a couple of your friends. And I know it because again, I try my best to do as much homework as I can. I love that. Thank you for that. No, it's all good. And there was one guy in particular that actually reached back. And he has some stuff to say. I just want to. Okay. That's Sean's the best. Okay, Sean to backstage moments. Oh my God. You know, in a Broadway show, you're doing the same thing. Seven times a week. So you have the same backstage traffic as you do on stage traffic. So one of them was in the song Wait for it, which Hamilton does not appear in. There's a moment where they all everyone on stage dramatically turns and faces stage left. And I would always be in the wings, just sort of punking Renee, I'd be making a funny face or doing a silly dance or I'd like, grab her because she was on stage and I wasn't another one was just before there's a moment just before the end of act one, where she and I walk all the way downstage together and then the turntable takes her away as her character is moving to London. And I used to just joke with her every time I'd be like, I'm not letting go this time. I'm not letting go. I'm coming with you just before our on stage. A little adrenaline boost. Moment together at the end of act one. I hope this is helpful to you. Oh my God. Can you further expand on that? Well, yeah, if you know, if you I the best part of being, oh, I'm sorry. Yes, that was the guy that created Hamilton. His name is Lin Manuel. Lin Manuel Miranda. Yes, Miranda. And I reached out to him. I hit his DMs up. And I basically was like, yo, how long did it take him to get back to you? Like a day. What? He is crazy. He is so busy. Like a day. He's writing everything. A day. No more excuses. Like, I gotta be better. I was shocked that he answers so quickly. He's a special dude. I was like, Hey, I'm gonna have Renee on the show. Yeah. And I just wanted to see if you could kind of just give me some tidbits, some BTS type stuff on just the energy of the show and tell me a little bit about Renee and all the other stuff. So he gave me this. He gave me one more, but please expound. Can I tell you just two things? First of all, the best part of being in a show is all of the backstage traffic. All of the times you're not supposed to be doing something that you're doing. Right. That's, I mean, I've had, do you remember plays from high school? Yes. Do you remember when you're not supposed to laugh? How hard it was to not laugh? And the most inappropriate. That's the best. Absolutely. That keeps you young. It doesn't matter how old you are. And just to say, this is a him backstage moment, but there's a moment before the song, right hand man, where we had a stage left before he would come on for that. We had a stage left moment together and he would freestyle to just the music that was playing. He would just freestyle. And that kid. Yeah. He's crazy. I mean, I wish I could, I wish I could have recorded the things that come off the top of his head. Like I'm just, I just want you to know, I know a lot of great rap. I know a lot of great rappers, but that kid just off the table. Like, I mean, just, I can't even, that's crazy. It's crazy. Like if you, if somebody like that actually sits down with a piece of paper and a pencil, they gonna write Hamilton. It's ridiculous. Because off the top of his head, the verses are sick. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Now, I, freestyling is, is a different mechanism that you have to work in your brain. It's crazy how some people can just off top rap about everybody in this room. Oh yeah. And it would be a song tomorrow. Oh my God. It's crazy. Yeah. It's crazy. Have you ever done it? Freestyle? Yeah. No. They used to put, we used to be backstage. Davide digs, Lin Vanuam ran that. They just, they would be like, they just put a beat on. And just go. And they'd start freestyling. And they'd be like, Renee. And I'd be like, my name's Renee. And it ran with a day. And then I would just start being really loud. Because I just thought that if I was loud, that maybe I would be, oh my God. And they would just be on the floor laughing. But it's so scary. And Davide would be like, dude, what you don't do is try to rhyme. Davide, he would just try to break down the signs. He's like, everybody's trying to rhyme. You try to say something. If you are focused on what, on saying something, you will find the rhyme. You have to believe. It's the same way. I mean, think about you as a singer, like an improving, just even just how, you know, how you sing improvisatorily. You know what I'm saying? Close enough. But think about it. If you're trying to do something, it's not gonna work. That is true. That is true. You know what I mean? You have to believe that your ear and your and your heart, your soul, your voice is going to find the note that connects to the other thing. That is true. But like, it seems a little intimidating when it deals with consonants and vowels and stuff like, you know what I'm saying? Like, you know, you got to put together a rhyme that is perfectly on time. Oh my God. So you don't sound like a Panamime. You know what I mean? You're like a Panamime. Cause you are a friend of mine. Right, right. You know what I mean? But I got a couple of rings. I mean, you know, it's a great idea. But yeah, but I loved it. But I loved it because it was a, you know, it helped me. But that's, we, we understand that. Yeah, that's true. That's true. I mean, I get where he's coming from. But there still has to be some level of just innate gift to be able to do it and to do it so fluently. You know, but okay, got one more. Okay, okay. There we go. The other thing I would add, and this is a memory from when Hamilton was off Broadway, was just how incredibly wonderful a backstage presence Renee is. She really is. She was a mama bear to everyone in that cast. And when we were working on, when we were doing the show off Broadway, I shared a room with Leslie who played Burr and we shared an adjoining wall with the Skyless sisters, all three of whom shared a dressing room. And they would harmonize so much on Boyz II Men stuff, on EnVogue, SWV, all the really good years. And, and they did it so much that I ended up writing more of their harmonies into the Skyler sisters when we transferred from off Broadway to Broadway. So her playing around and her joy backstage directly translated into me writing more for those sisters as they became real life sisters. Yeah, well, anyway, I'm a massive fan. He is a massive fan and so am I. Thank you. Yeah, thank you. We are massive fans. Shout out to you both. Lynn, thank you for this. This was amazing. I have to believe that you could have gotten a ticket to see the show. I could not get a ticket. It came probably a couple years late. Yeah, it's just a little bit. But no, I could not get I could not get ticket. And obviously, I didn't know any of you. So it was one of those things where it's like, I went through the proper channels. Yeah, that's the problem. You needed to. I know. But that was the only way and it was kind of like it was like, it wasn't possible. I remember trying to know Sean Stockman, but I tried to I got some connections. I know a few people I couldn't get them either. It was tough between that and the Kendrick Lamar show. I had no luck, bro. Yeah. Yeah. And I got top's number in my phone. He's like, I didn't even buy the call. No, I was gonna like, bro, don't even. That's the problem. You're saying no to yourself. All right. This is not about me. That's another episode. This is not about me. Renee, say it again. Tell him again. Yeah, no, it's a thing. I know it because I do it to myself. Yeah. We say no to ourselves. Yeah. And because we just, you know, we don't want to impose or we just think the no is coming. So why even ask? Yeah. It's a crazy thing. You don't want to bother anybody. You don't want to bother. And why would they give it to me? There's so many people calling them. Who would think that not, but yeah. So, but that's proof. Yeah. That's proof of an impact on the world. I guess that basically what they're now he just made a line between you and a show that you didn't see on Broadway. He basically said that Renee and Philippa Sue and Jasmine Seifers Jones, the Skyler sisters riffing backstage on music like, you know, your songs changed what he wrote in a musical. He didn't change that, you know, that he's like I said, he's a genius and, and it came out like that. Except for a very few moments in the show where he actually was impacted by what was happening in the room. And that was one of them. That, that kind of harmony and whatever changed the show. So in some way you, you had an impact. Isn't it crazy when you find, I just have to say, because sometimes this happens to me that people I had no idea had any idea anything about me or, you know, you know, some, something, some ripple has an impact on somebody on another side of the world. We're all fans. Isn't it? We are all fans. Even if we're from a distance. Yeah, we're all fans. We all, in our personal time, that's it. That inspires us to do it in the first place. Yes. If we all had jerseys, I would ask you to sign mine and you could say, you know, it's just, We can do a jersey swap. A jersey swap. You know what I'm saying? Like it's, it's really the same thing. Like because again, when I'm not singing or whatever, I'm sitting at home and I'm watching movies or I'm watching whatever and you find something. Like, yo, that was really, really good. Yeah. So with that, but just only natural that when you see someone that you've kind of watched from a distance and now you're sitting talking to him, like, wow, like that's amazing. And that's how life is sometimes. But, you know, again, we're all fans. And again, it was again, another honor of you just being here because I know of your work and I know how much you've impacted not just myself, but so many people like again, doing the deep dive and seeing just the fandom and the pandemonium and how gracefully you've taken all of it. That's what I enjoy the most. Like, you know, I didn't hear any see any sneering clips or anything like that. You're still a very gracious person. Again, us knowing the same people and how they revere you as just a great human being. I think that's most important to highlight in podcasts like this. Everybody knows you for what you do, but no one knows the person. So that's the gift of this conversation that I'm getting to know the person opposed to the girl that said this thing. Yeah, I'm saying. Yeah, I think it's interesting because I just wanted to see a really good friend in a show, Jonathan Groff. He was playing Bobby Daren in this show on Broadway. And afterwards I was like, you know, because I personally think that no matter how big a fan I am of somebody, when I meet them in person, no matter how brilliant they are, who they are, completely overshadows. I mean, literally no matter how talented and how massively great they are, when you meet them, you're like, they're even better. It's different. I mean, you feel that way. I mean, everybody I've ever met that I was a huge fan of. I'm like, wow, in real life, you're even. Yeah, that's just a percentage of you know, I know there's there's I'm sure there's a number of heroes. I'm not some of them. I'm like, wow, but you're right. You're right. You're right. Yeah. But but anyway, but then sometimes also it is the thing that's awesome about them. That is what is special about their work. And so that's the thing. I mean, for me, I feel like my love of people that I work with my my my belief that I'm there, you know, to love people like I'm there. I'm like, I feel like this is a family and my role in this family is to love these people to lift these people up to whatever to be myself in this space. It works really well as an actor. Yeah, because it's chemistry and relationships. Yes. It works really well because it just works as a singer because it just it just it's it's a hack. Yeah. It's a hack in terms of your ability to do anything virtuosically. Yeah. Is really to show up with all of the light and love you possibly can can bring to the people that are going to be there. Who was the most surprising celebrity you saw in the crowd? Oh, at Hamilton? Like, who's the one that you like? What are they mean? Like, I can't believe they're here. Yeah, like, I mean, just period, like just people that you were so happy or shocked to see in the audience. First of all, I'll say, you know, I mean, it's an embarrassment of riches. I mean, everybody came. So when I asked you the question, did you come? I knew the answer. Yeah. Because I knew who didn't come. Right. Because everybody came. Right. Broker harsh. No, I didn't know. It's like, makes me feel even more like I assume. I just thought maybe you saw it in a way. I thought maybe you saw whatever. But that I only telling you that's how I mean, literally, it was who didn't come. It was, you know, surprising in the beginning before we even made it to Broadway. You know, we, you know, Michelle Obama was there. Barack was there. Yeah, we're right on their level. Yeah. But I mean, literally, if it was, what was beautiful for the theater is that sometimes theater can be kind of siloed off in this other world of entertainment. But, you know, I'll never forget the night Buster Ims was in the front row center when we were off Broadway. And we were like, and he was like, oh, like maybe we were like, oh my God, you know, like, and he and but he was like, he almost like gave us a stamp. You should hear Lynn talk about that story when you're when your idol is sitting in the front row of your rap musical. Right. Before anybody had ever said we were good. Right. And and the beauty of him, he came backstage for and just talked to us for hours and came back. Wow. I mean, they all came and they would come back and they just like and come to my show. And this is what we supposed to be doing. Like they were it was, I mean, I mean, so I, I, I, I, I hesitate to say people's names because it because it leaves everybody else out. Yeah. I will say one just because it was so emblematic of what it was. And that is Prince just because that was just so one day I got my that's how my life was. My life at that time when I was running to the theater, I'm doing a la la la and and I got a phone call from a friend from actually his publicist who's a friend of mine. He was like, Prince is going to do a pop up show in New York and he wants to, he wants your cast to come just for y'all. Pop up show in New York City tonight after your show, can you come? And I was like, I think we can be there. Yeah. Yeah. Let me look at my stuff around. Okay. So, but I wasn't sure if he was going to come to the show that night and then do it. So he didn't come to the show. So after our show, we went to this little club downtown. We waited one hour DJ, amazing drinks, kicking it, whatever, two hours, three hours. Finally at 3am when he comes out and plays the most amazing set for eight hours. No, I think it was only a couple hours. So good. I mean, crazy. Prince was known for doing it. I had never had. Maybe you've probably knew him been to something you probably knew. You probably had a hold of it. We've been through a couple of Paisley Park shows and his thing was I don't perform until everybody's sleepy. Basically, like three, four in the morning. Is that why he did it? I don't know. Everybody's just standing there for hours. And then at 2.30, 2.45am, he pops up and he plays for four hours and he doesn't stop. Yeah, she does. She came to see the Hamilton. Her hours. Yeah, her was her hours. What I remember is that she showed up after Satisfy, which is the song I sing in the middle of the first act. And I was like, dang it. Because I love her. Anyway, so the next night after he kept us up all night, he came to see our show. And it was crazy. See how they do when they're really tired. Exactly. I really think there was some kind of, yeah, what I've heard about his sense of humor. I'm like, he might have thought that. Yeah, it's supposed to be good. Let's see how that sounds like a prince thing. And so he sat and I remember being like, I'm gonna be in my show. I'm gonna be in. I'm not gonna look up at Prince. I'm gonna be in my show. So I was doing my show and then I walked out for the bow. I was like, to see him. And you know what I saw? He was up in a box. But like, as soon as my head flipped up, I saw the curtain close. He had just left. And I'm so mad at myself for being good. Because I should have a memory of looking up at like one of my idols watching me in a show. And that was the gift of being in Hamilton. Did you get to meet him? I didn't meet him. Okay. I didn't meet him. But for me, to have performed, when you get to perform for your heroes, it's genius. I mean, all of them, if they were alive, I mean, I didn't get to perform for Whitney. She was gone. I didn't get to, you know, but like, anybody that was alive, I got to perform for and then have a conversation with them after. Like when Barbara Streisand is asking me questions about I didn't, and Pharrell, like, you know, so you're a rapper and a singer, are you, you know, beyond like you're talking to you're talking to people, you get to have these conversations with actors, for example, about how they really always wanted to do theater. Like you're talking to your movie star, A-list actor, person, and they're asking you questions about what it feels like to do this thing they always used to want to do. It's just awesome. It's the perk. But you know that. It's the perk. It's the best perk of knowing that when you put up a certain type of, when you put your name on a certain marquee that people are going to come and see you and want to meet you and want to talk to you. It's one of the best things of being an entertainer. It's one of the most humbling and most grateful things you can experience to know that just like you said, you see your heroes and they're coming to see you. Yeah. John, who came, who's come to see you that was surprising to you or maybe an iconic memory for you? See? George Lucas. Oh, wow. Yeah. He brought his kids. They were fans. Whitney, Michael, MJ. Just everybody. Everybody. It's a cool thing. It doesn't suck. Are you more nervous on those types of shows, guys? I'm in the don't tell me list. I just really pissed when people tell me. Some people want to know. I get excited. You get excited? Lynn gets excited. Lynn is like, I'm going to show my ass. I'm always going to be doing the best possible show I could ever do. It's not going to be, not going to be better because you're there. But I kind of don't want to be thinking the whole time about, you know, Beyonce like this lick. I kind of just want my show to be my show and then I want a fan. Mary, did Mary like such as, you know, well, the one safety net that you got is that they're there. Amen. Yeah. Do you go a little extra when you know somebody's there? Sometimes. I know I do. But like, that's what it's all about. Being honest about those moments. I get, see, we were taught in a different, in a space where, say, if we perform with a rival group, for example, we weren't nervous at all. Like, our job was to kill. Period. Like, oh, they're on stage? Oh, cool. Okay. Like, it's almost like it made our chest puff up a little bit more and go, okay, I'm a really hit this riff. Yeah. I'm like, what? You know what I'm saying? Like, you know, that, that type of thing. So if anything, it excited me. Wow. Because it is the possibility of someone doing really good. So you're kind of like, okay. Okay. Bellis. Right. All right. We know, right? Okay. Yeah. And that's because that's what we were brought. We were under Mike Bivvitz. And Biv put that in us to kind of like, when you go on stage, that competition, competition. And I love everybody. Yeah. But when you're on stage, I'm killing. Yes. It's like when Kendrick, when he homies, like, like, when Kendrick did the diverse, when he talked, when he called out everybody, it's just friendly competition. Like my job is to do better than you. So that you might, so that you have to come back and do better. Yeah. I'm, it's a favor. That's it. That's, that's it. And it has nothing to do with anything personal. Has everything to do with, okay, they're on, they're going to before after. All right, cool. And then you just set your mind state to that. And you, no matter what the situation is, and as we try to do every time. Yeah. All right. I had some theories. Okay. Okay. Stronger. Go ahead, man. Put them up. No, no, no. Yeah. Right. Yeah. Yeah. Let me show my, my suede Python Birkenstocks. Thanks to the surgeons. Thank you. It's your home. We just sent it. Yeah. But, um, okay, here we go. Because I want to keep harping on Hamilton, but I had my theories to some degree because I had to do some research on the relationship between Alex and Angelica. Okay. Okay. Now, obviously to play, it leads to, there was a tension to some degree there. So I was like, it wasn't really, I was like, let me, let's, let's go deep into this. Like, was it just, just something that people would speculate or like, was there actual proof there? So, so I found some, some tidbits and then after this, we can get off of this. No, no, no. But, I guess there were a few key things or themes from, I guess, letters that they wrote. It's the letters. Yes. Okay. So you being a woman, right? Would you allude to, because I don't know, I'm assuming you did some research with these letters. Would you allude to the idea that there was a, a deeper friendship going on between Angelica and Secretary Hamilton? Yes. You know, what does that mean in our present day sense? I can't, I don't know that I should can speculate on that. Let's be lady whistled down for a second. Okay. Okay. Okay, Frigerton. You know, I, I, so I'll go back to the biography. Ron Chernow wrote the biography that Lynn read and he wrote Hamilton from it. And Ron Chernow is a biographer who is special in that he's not, you know, some, some biographers are about dates and places and artifacts. He's about relationships. He loves the soap opera of the people involved in a time. And to me, that's what makes history. That's the real history. Exactly. History is a soap opera. And it's just about how good the storyteller is. And the storyteller being good means what you're looking for. And, and, and that's why I worry a little bit about what people are going to be able to say about us. If the cloud no longer exists, because they wrote these letters. And in those letters, we can compare, you know, if everybody writes that kind of, writes in that way to everybody else, then it's not special. But the way and the words that they wrote to each other, you know, it do allude to more, not, this is my brother-in-law. And it changes as they get older. But they, but there is that love. And I just want to say two things. First of all, where he did take a leap is that Angelica was already married when the wedding happened. So that's a really big deal is that people think, you know, the whole dramatic, yeah, there's a dramatic, that's the song, satisfied, that's so wonderful, is this idea that she's at a wedding and she makes a choice. And she gives this person that she knows instantly, she would love forever. And the only person as smart as her, because she's the smartest person in this world, she, she recognizes, you know, you go to my sister. In reality, she was already, she was already, you know, she had already married in the way she was supposed to as the oldest sister. I see. Traditional. But that's why I love all the TikToks of, you know, my dearest Angelica, the comma after dearest, the comma after dearest. That is such a beauty, that's the beauty of storytelling. It's the way to talk about the fact that in the letters they did, they were, they were making love with punctuation. They were, that was there. But I also have to say that he was not the only person that she wrote that way back and forth to. Okay. Okay. So who was that? Who else did she write? Jefferson. She wrote back and forth with Ben Franklin. She, she, and, and, and so we can talk. Susan intellectuals. So she was, she would have been the first president. Yeah. Or maybe second, because clearly Jordan, but you know, but she, it's just women didn't have, but she was the, she was the one everybody was, there used to be a line in the show where, you know, in the rap battle where David's character as Jefferson said, say hi, say, say hi to Angelica for me. Oh, that's, oh, right. It used to be there. You know, like, yeah. Right. You know what I'm saying? Like, I got her too. Kind of like a little, like it was a little, you know, just the way men. So was Angelica a player? I don't, I think plays to, yes, she was, if it means she was running the game. Yes. Yeah. As much as, as much as one could as a woman at that time. She was, she was a puppet master. Yeah. Yeah. Cause she knew every cause she, she had to know that brothers was checking for a deeper than just politics. Oh yeah. And, and, and, you know, extremely wealthy, connected, wealthy, smart, and yeah, master and fine. Fine. So it just had to, yeah. So, okay. So with all that being said, was there a true affection or, you know, Secretary Hamilton with Angelica? Absolutely. If you're, if you're brilliant, I mean, like, so here we had this conversation. We talked about not ever dating people that are also artists. So she was a sappy as actual my, my, my question is even though, even though you never did that, do you not, do you not see somebody great that is an artist and feel like, wow, you know what I'm saying? I mean, I, I mean, it's, can you not, I mean, you know, not, not man or woman, like, can you not fall in love with someone's talent? 100%. Absolutely. So I feel like if you are an intellectual, there's no way you're not going to fall in love with another. So was it falling in love or was it infatuation? Love. Love, it lasted a lifetime. You know, amidst her having these same level type, type level conversations with other politicians. Love. But I'm, I'm not objective because I'm going to find the juiciest answer as the actor. Infatuation is an interesting, is interesting to play. Love for a lifetime, unrequited. Of course. Love for a lifetime. Come on. We're not, we're not speaking of the method acting part of it. We're speaking of the human part. Of saying, okay, Angelica, what are you doing? You know what I'm saying? Like, you know, like, what was really popping? Can I, can I just say something that makes me so happy? I just have to say, because it kind of combines your two questions, you know, when you get to meet your heroes. So we used to love running downstairs after the show to see who was there. And I remember the night I got to meet Mary J. Blige. She came over to side. She just wanted to talk to the sisters. And she was like, so, was you really sleeping with your sister's husband? You know what I mean? And I was like, oh my God, I love her so much. You know what I mean? She was like, I sat through three hours of that show. Was you really sleeping with your sister's husband? I just loved it. Now, do you think it went that far? No. No, I don't think so either. I don't either. No, I don't think so. Yeah, I think they still kept it. I do. I do too. You know, PC. Yeah. But they were having an intellectual love affair that maybe, yeah, maybe they were aware that if, yeah, I don't think they did, I don't think so. I don't think they did. And you, you believe that it was love? I do. Okay. Again, it's all, you know, we're just having a, yeah, speculation. It's all speculation. That's, I just, you know, because I was just thinking about it. I was like, from a male's perspective, I was kind of thinking, okay, from the play and watching the play and then reading some of the little excerpts of the letters, like, yeah, they were feeling each other. But to what extent? That's all. I just wanted to ask, okay, okay, okay. All right. Now that I got all the gossip, I guess I had to ask. Okay. All right. I want to know your top five vocalists of all time. Okay. Yes. You're such a great singer. That is true. Give me your top five favorite vocalists. Sarah Vaughn should be one, two, three, four and five. Yeah. For me, rest over. Yeah. For me, she's one, two, three, four and five. She's my favorite vocalist in the whole wide world. I just, in every stage of her life. I love Donna Summer. Great choice. I mean, I just feel like she's such a queen of an era of a genre of music that people sometimes miss the power and the beauty of her voice. Yeah. So I love Donna Summer. I love, I love Roberta Flack. No, no. Oh, should I not? Maybe I lose her band dress if I can include. Yeah, you can do whatever you want. Men. It doesn't have to be all female. Yeah, it doesn't have to be all female, but it's good that it is. I love Chade. We just talked. I'm so glad we just talked about Chade. Isn't that crazy? The reason why I love to say Chade, because obviously Aretha and Chaka and Gladys, and I could go down a list of Whitney. I mean, there's a million wonderful singer performers. The reason why I love Chade is because as a singer, she's the hardest for me to imitate. Yeah. Isn't that crazy? She can't be imitated. She can't. She can't be like so. You know, I just remember like there was a stage of my life that I didn't take you through where I was a singer in LA. I used to just sing for money, like in clubs. And I was a cover singer. I'd sing and I could sing anybody, but Chade. That's crazy. It's hard to. Renee, so check this out. I'm on my drive home last night. That's why I love Chade. I'm bumping Chade and anything music, I'm always throwing shit to Sean. Yeah. And I'm sending him a voice note. And I'm literally like, we get all these top fives. How come nobody drops Chade? Yeah. She's the fucking just dope. She's so dope. And I love Chade and he's like the ones who know no, that was his reply. That would be me. Yeah. Yeah. You know, yeah, she's she's she's the goat. Yeah. And she's people just don't people know, like, and even like I'm the other day, I was like, you know, because this is what happens with my kids. And I'm like, yeah, the Gap Band, like you, you know, like, oh my God, I didn't get on. I mean, Billy Joel, like sometimes things will happen. I'll be like, you've got to know. And I never, and maybe you didn't hear. And the other day I was like, Chade. Yeah. And you know, they've sampled her. He knows he knows Eva Cassidy is another one of mine. Do you know Eva Cassidy? Eva Cassidy. She is an you're welcome. Okay. Just sing her up. She's gone. She died young. So she is not as famous as she was, but it's singers know. I'll look her up. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. Eva Cassidy. That'll be my homework. That'll be my ride home. Yeah. Okay. Again. What's your favorite restaurant? My favorite restaurant. This is so hard. Anyplace in Houston, Texas, anyplace in like the Papa C toes, the Papa does, if you know Houston, you know, there's a Papa's chain. It's the same restaurant tours who have a version that's, you know, Italian and Mexican and Creole. Okay. I like the Creole and the Mexican Papa C toes and Papa toes. Okay, cool. So we're going to use Papa C toes. Okay. You're sitting at your favorite table. Okay. You're chowing down on some some vitals. And you look at the entrance and it's the younger version of Renee. Okay. She's been looking for you. I'm going to try to find some words of wisdom on what to expect in her future. Some advice from the only person that she trusts. They can give her something. So she's sitting next to you, grab some nachos. And she's looking at you. She wants to know what would the older Renee say to the younger Renee? What advice would you give her to put her on the right track to the future? I would say you are right. And I don't know that I would say much more. I think for me, I second guess myself all the time. I can be very indecisive because I want to do the right thing. I'm never exactly sure what it is. And I think just the, I don't know that I would give too much information because I think the not knowing and the battle is the point. So there should be no, you're going to make it girl. Your dreams are going to come true. Like I don't know, there's a reason why God doesn't tell us that. So I wouldn't rob her of what, of the surprises. That's an interesting way. I'm saying I wouldn't rob. I mean, I'm not going to do it. Clearly God has not decided not to tell us the end of the story. We get to live it. Yes. You know, and we did a lot of naming and claiming, you just put your hand on this and say it out loud. And it's going to happen. We did that, but it's not true. I believe what you believe and that is we are not promised a thing. We are promised peace in what we get. Right? So that's what I personally believe. I believe that, I don't know what we're going to get, but you will be gifted if you ask for it and you humble yourself, you will be gifted peace and the ability to manage what you have or in a way that is meaningful to the world if that's what your goal is. And that has always been mine. So I probably would just let her know that if you know that you're right, you know, perhaps you'll stop questioning yourself all the time and just keep showing up. It's a weird, I mean, I've literally been asked that question. Yeah, I completely did that. I've been asked that question many times. Never is dramatically, beautifully kind of, you know, never with such a perfect scene set up. And so I think that's why there's a different answer. I've never given that answer because I'm withholding. Because I'm withholding because I do trust that I trust the process. I do trust, I should say, maybe I don't trust the, maybe that's a lie. Maybe I don't trust the process, but I do trust the person that sets the process and the entity that sets the process has set it up so that I'm not, you're going to, I don't, you don't know when your last day is. Right. You just don't know. You have no idea what's coming. And I set it up that way for a reason, because there is something more important than knowing everything. Hmm. You know, so anyway, I would just give her the affirmation to know that what, what I, what I believed was important, why I believed I exist. These things are, I thought then they're true. They're still true. And I would let her know you're right. And I would hold her hand and tell her I love her. That's it. She has an album out called Who I Really Am. Please pick it up. It's a beautiful record. She's singing her ass off on it. It's very smooth, very powerful, very soulful. Thank you. Um, she also has a movie that's coming out called A House of Dynamite. Um, it features, I just want to make sure I don't want to get anything wrong. Um, it just Elba, Gretelie and Anthony Ramos. Anthony Ramos, you do know your stuff. Anthony. That's my little brother. Yeah. Come in. I'll tell you. Shout out to Anthony. He's wonderful and they're all wonderful and it's a great movie. He's freaking awesome. He's freaking awesome. He's freaking awesome. Have you heard his music? No, I haven't. Oh, his first album. Uh-uh. It's crazy. So good. All right. And I'm going to go download your record and, uh, I'll highlight you, bro. And, you know what I'm saying? Like that's super dope. And I liked you in Iron Heart. You were super dope. Loves you in Iron Heart. You were awesome. Thank you very much. That was a great role you played. And, um, again, you're back on Broadway with the Ballisters. The Ballisters? It's a play. It's a straight play. Okay. Now, what, what tell us about that? It's a, it's David Lindsay Baer wrote, is a brilliant playwright and I got to do one of his original plays called The Good People a number years ago starring Francis McDormand. She went to Tony Amazing and he wrote another play and it's, these are ensemble plays that, are riveting and they really just kind of tear apart the fabric of American culture and society and let people figure out how to pull the pieces back together. Okay. Most important question. Can I get a ticket? Yes. And you don't have to DM me. Two tickets. Selfish on. I'm just saying, bro. Springtime. I got to work. You know, I don't want to. Push it. I know. I'm a tailor. I'm straight. I can take it. Okay. All right. I'm just saying, okay, great. So you all heard it. Yes. So I don't want to be knocking on the door. I have a feeling they'll be available. Yeah. Okay. Okay. All right. Well, again, thank you so much. Can I, can I put, plug one more thing? You sure can. My documentary? Of course. Thank you. We did mention it early, but let's mention it again. Yeah. Satisfied. Yeah. By the time you see this, it will be out. It will be out. It will be in the movie theaters. Yeah. But it'll be out. You'll be able to get it anyway. Yes. It is the story of the making of a family. Two families. One is the Hamilton family, the making of Hamilton. But most importantly, it was the road to family. My husband and I were on that yielded two beautiful children. I watched a trailer and a lot of people are going to really understand what this young lady had to go through. The things that she had to endure amidst trying to be perfect on stage and then be perfect at home. And I look forward to watching it myself. Thank you. And on that note, ladies and gentlemen, it was an honor to please give it up. Yay.