‘Euphoria’ Season 3, Episode 6: Mama’s Got a Brand New Mule

Hello, welcome back to Press2HTV podcast feed. I'm Joyda Robinson. I am Rob Mahoney. It's another euphoria Sunday here at Sycamore Studios. Rob, how are you feeling? I guess as lupier as regular as is now our custom on Sundays. We only have two more of these to go. And one of them is the finale, super-sized finale. Kind of bizarre to think about. I would say especially given where some of the characters are right now, but with the super-sized finale, there's probably a lot of ground we can cover. I was thinking about that a lot because I just, as you know, I was at a stars event for the Outlander finale on Friday and then the boys finale is hitting this upcoming week. And so there's just a lot of conversation right now about finales of long-running, huge fandom, contentious fandom shows. So like that. How's it going on the boys? It's hotly contested, I would say. That seems generous based on what I've seen. I'm interested to see how it all wraps up. Outlander has the sort of burden of expectation of books hanging around it, but I actually think a lot of the fandom was pretty happy without Outlander wrapped up. But I was thinking about that and I was thinking about Euphoria. And I'm like, I don't think Euphoria is sort of like blissfully free of some of those expectations, right? Because I don't think there's, I don't know, what I've been covering a show for a long time and we're coming up on the finale, I get really sort of tense and agitated thinking about not just how am I going to enjoy it, but like what is the fandom backlash going to be because there's usually this era of sort of like mourning of like, I've been with this show for so many years. I've been invested in these characters. It's never going to end in a way that I'm going to be satisfied with. But I feel like the Euphoria fandom is free from that because there's been so many stretches of years without Euphoria. And even though the show has been on for, I don't know, six or seven years or whatever, it's not like people have been tuning in every year and spending time with these characters. And then also there is just the fact that season three is just another animal, another Python altogether, than the previous seasons and the specials. And so I'm not getting that sense of there's no winning here at the end of Euphoria, as there is often the case with some of these other shows. I mean, there's just not as much guessing at like, how does it all end period? I think because it's such a loosomorphous thing, especially in the season, as you mentioned, but I mean, fans of the show do feel very strongly about it. Absolutely. I do think that we have filtered to a point where if you're down for this, you're still here. And if you're not, you've already ejected like many episodes, if not seasons ago. So, you know, let's all just walk into the burning Joshua tree together. Though I do know a couple people and not just our colleague Andy Greenwald, who are like tuning in this season, who had not watched it previously just because the conversation is so loud around it. It's sort of like Survivor 50. You can't avoid it. Rob, as to hear us talk about it a lot at the end. Yeah, I avoided it in every other respect of my life. But you know the name of some players. I gotta say I don't. I think you do. I zone out or maybe just like tap into my Cassie style PTSD during those moments and just check out. You expect me to recall the names of basketball players sometimes, but you're not going to remember the name of Suri, Survivor Legends Suri. Joe, I never put those expectations on you. That is you putting those expectations on yourself. Anyway, here's the point. You can reach us at PressHTV at Spotify.com. Always. Mattie's number one boy at gmail.com. We got a few handful of emails in the intern between when the episode ended and when we started this recording. A lot of the emails we're getting recently are Dear God, where's your next Widows Bay episode? I got great news for you. We already recorded it. It's coming out next week, this week. In several days. In several days. And a few days covering two episodes, episodes four and five. We did an episode of Skins UK coverage last week. And in two weeks, we're doing a Friday Night Lights episode as well. Retrospective. Retrospective. Yes. So that's what's going on. There's a lot going on. That's a, you know, a wide swath of content for the people. It really is. But Widows Bay will be coming back from us. I promise you, you do not have to worry. You do not have to hex anyone. It is happening. Don't worry. Should they still hex somebody? Probably. Mailbag. Let's do it. Catherine emailed us right after the episode ended with a theory that I'm already seeing catching fire across the internet. Is Rue already dead? I mean, to be fair, hasn't this theory already caught fire for every show since the dawn of time? But let's engage. So when is it purported that Rue died? Car crash. Oh, here? Yeah. Oh, so not previously. Car crash, burning bush. Not Polo Mallet. Not any of her previous potential overdoses. Oh, these, no. This was her, this was when she died. Did she die swerving off the road and is the burning Joshua tree a sort of signal of her death? We do see her obviously in the trailer for next week's episode, but like, is she dead? I'm gonna say, would that be interesting? I think it could be interesting. Okay. It depends on what you do with it, right? And how you choose to manifest all of the plot lines that would result. I think that's where you get into trouble with something like Rue dying, because you would still have to show us all the other characters, either in her head or after life, fugue state or not. And so what are you going to do with those sequences and how true to the actual events of life would those be? I don't think she's dead, but I was just trying to figure out if I thought it was interesting if she would be dead. And certainly inside of this episode, when we get Lexie and Gideon Adlin, who probably is a character name, but Gilly, there you go. Lexie and Gilly sitting down with some like, budget sangria in the courtyard there and talking about killing off characters. Have to kill a character, so it's just talking, talking, talking, right? So that's sort of hanging over everything. And then there's just like, I never felt more certain that Rue was not going to make it out of the season alive than talking about wanting to have kids in the church scene, talking about wanting to come home, even though it does appear at spoilers for the episode seven trailer, if you cared, that she is home in next week's episode. But is she home or is she dead? I don't know. These are just questions I'm asking of a Sunday evening. But the question I was asking myself as I was thinking like, are they really going to kill Rue? Are they going to kill Rue? Is that what's going to happen? They can't do it too early because as much as this has kind of become like the Sydney, Sweeney Cassie show to a certain degree, can you have two more episodes of euphoria without Rue's story? It's one of the most repulsive things happening this season. So, you know, safe robberies and all. Like it's just setting up a lot of narrative juice where I think it'd be hard to separate from that, even if you want to explore it in a post-death state. But I mean, how would you feel about these last two episodes culminating in all of these perhaps disparate characters following their own narrative arcs to fulfillment at like a mystical church-like location and congregating together in a controversial finale? I don't know. Is Michael Giacchino available to make me cry with some piano? That's a good question. Lost finale, I defend you always. Daniella wrote in before this episode air, but I was actually thinking about this a lot during the Rue and Jules scene. Daniella wrote in to say about this question we posed last week about objective versus subjective seasons of the show. And Daniella wrote, yes, there are dream sequences this season, but those sorts of abstract moments, and those sort of abstract moments, but away in which you can see the objective versus objective side of the season three is Rue's relationship with Jules. In season one or two, we would have seen a romanticized version via Rue. There were a lot of drug-induced romanticizations of the relationships from Rue, but now she can't even get up and kiss her. So follow up on that. I was thinking about that exactly actually before I even read Daniella's email in the Rue and Jules scene when Jules like, are you kidding me? Like, are you being serious right now? And I was like, yeah, if I think we were meant to read between the lines of Rue's romanticism in the previous seasons, and we certainly got some scenes like alone with Jules, like especially with Dominic Fike's character in season two, where she was like raising some questions about this relationship. But I don't think we would have gotten such a stark version of this reality check if we were still so much inside of Rue's fantasy. The Redditors seem pretty down on Jules slapping Rue, but I was sort of like, I don't know. I hate what's happening with Jules this season. Yeah. I don't like that, and we can talk about that. But in terms of like, Rue getting in Jules' face and telling her her entire life is horrible, after everything that Rue has put Jules through with her life decisions, I was like, yeah, slap her. Like, why not? I care about Rue, but in that moment, I didn't think Jules slapping her was like so out of pocket. I had no problem with it. My problems are more with, I would say, the whiplash not just from that sort of subjective narrative, narrativization of earlier seasons, which I agree with you, kind of tracks here in the way both these characters are acting. But coming off of last week, where Jules was imploring Rue to want something, to go after something, and specifically her, and then Rue kind of does it, in maybe in a way Jules doesn't want, and that's not the right answer. You know, it's so weird, and I wonder if something was cut, is from the context of their conversation here, it almost sounded like they did have some sort of like intensive sexual interaction. Oh, they did. That's why Rue's boxers were in the room, you know? Oh, I guess so. I just thought she was just like changing. Why don't we get to see it? Why don't we get to see it? You know? I mean, they did play with it in the cut you're talking about, where it's Ellis there, instead of you're expecting Rue to be there. So she's challenging Rue to like do something about it. Rue does something about it. We don't get to see it, fine. We get to see plenty of other things, but not ruin Jules having sex, okay, fine. And then Jules is like, that didn't, you did the thing that I asked you to, and it doesn't really mean much to me. You did that thing that I asked you to, and also it's all of this is in your head, like our whole relationship, this imaginary version of it is in your head, which it kind of has been. But also last week, we were all there when she was literally saying these things, and then they literally fucked afterwards. So I don't know what to make of all that. Presumably. Allegedly. Show don't tell. I think that Rue talking about wanting to have kids, like needing something outside of herself, and wanting to have kids, I'm just like, this is not the way. There are many different reasons for people not to have kids. Reasons you should not have. As a father of children. I am a father. Famously and recently. I would say Rue and have, it's like maybe 50 different reasons not to have kids. So it's just, it is incredibly rich. I get Jules's frustration with all that. It's just the rest of it is just so odd. The one thing I want to say, and I think the Jules plot line this season has been frustrating for us just because we really like Jules a lot. We love Hunter Schaefer. Very much so. I am finding, I am enjoying the painting sequences because these are live painting sequences. We're watching Hunter Schaefer, the artist, and this is something that Sam Levinson talked about where it's like, I love Hunter as an artist. Hunter doesn't really practice her art. And so I kind of made her do it by doing these like live painting scenes. And we've seen several of them now. And I think her art is really interesting and cool. Evocative and gorgeous. Not just the, you know, Dick Leiden's Sera, like, but also that. But you know, it all has a distinctive style to it. And it's really fun to watch her process. And so I just, I enjoy that aspect while being frustrated by a lot of the absence of Jules. And the only person served less by this episode. Well, Maddie, an underwhelming Maddie episode, especially given the like, the promise of the trailer for this episode was like a big Maddie Alamo showdown, except they showed the entirety of it in the trailer. So we had already seen whatever their conversation was. Plus she's the thumbnail photo of this episode. So I was like, oh, we're going to get a real Maddie episode. And we did not. And then Nate, which is just sort of like, I would almost rather not cut to Nate at all in an episode than just sort of like run this tape back again and again, you know? I mean, all he has done this season is embarrass himself in front of the zoning council and lose a finger and a toe, get his ass beat. I mean, I would say in terms of the flowers themselves, just, I mean, we're reaching a little shop of horrors level of like getting fucking like dominated by a plant. Are you trying to placate me by making a musicals reference right now? No. After you've taken me off on Friday with the musicals argument? I mean, if you want to revisit why West Side Story, the remake, the Spielberg remake is in fact quite good. I'm happy to do it here on Mike. But also if you want to defer, that's fine too. Rob just wants to defend Ansel Elgort, his favorite actor. Not the case. I think that's, Nate is a real miss for me, though I will say I have enjoyed the conversation where a lot of people point out like, hey, man, Nate was free and easy with a gun in season two. Why doesn't he have a gun? Why isn't he defending himself? And I like the pushback that I've seen on the internet that, yes, of course, Nate would use a gun to intimidate a teenage girl, but just sort of crumple in the face of real criminals. I don't find that contradictory at all. Completely adds up. Yeah, it's just he's not adding anything to the story. These scenes aren't interesting visually. Like they're just not contributing anything to the flow of the season. Granted, we are clearly laying gunpowder so that when he now collides back with Cassie's part of the story, something goes up in smoke. I just don't really know how that's all going to pay off in a way that makes this feel worth it. Look at you gunpowder and smoke just weaving your narrative here. Our listener Tom Rodin with a well actually for Maddie's Jesus quote from last week's episode. First of all, how dare they? Maddie says, Jesus says, be in the world, not of the world. And Tom, who is a religious professor, wrote and said, that's actually a notion from the Muslim esoteric mystic sect known as Sufis. I haven't watched any further before writing this, so if someone corrects their please disregard, but no one did. So Tom's here to correct Maddie. I trust Maddie. Okay. We're a professor. You know. All right. On the contract watch front, which we raised last week, and your hope was that Cassie just never turned in her drillhouse contract. A lot of our listeners pointed out that Cassie signed each contract with a different name that she signed Cassie Howard, her maiden name to the high house or the drillhouse contract. And Cassie Jacobs her married name to Maddie's contract. So in terms of like, if there is in the last two episodes of the show, some sort of legal battle. In which Cassie represents herself in court. Oh, I legally blonde style. The pink suit. Come on. Does it come down to whether or not one could get a perm wet at some point? I think the drillhouse contract, because it takes a while to change your name legally. It's a pain in the ass. It is a pain in the ass. And it takes a while. It doesn't happen just when you get married. So you're saying the drillhouse contract to you would be the more authentically binding document. It's her legal name right now, Cassie Howard. That is true. I don't know how any of this works. I'm going to be honest with you. Are you not allowed to put your maiden name on a document and still have it be binding even after your name has changed? I'm sure you can, but if the question comes down to between two. Betwixt. And never the twain shall meet. Betwixt the two. And we maybe cannot carbon date when exactly she signed the two, though we the viewers at home know she signed the drillhouse one first. Would it come down to which one has her current legal name on it? This is where I have to defer to Cassie Howard slash Jacobs attorney at law and what her interpretation is of the truth. Please email us matty's number one boy at email.com. If you're a lawyer, I mean, Rob might just disregard you the way that you did. Just disregard it a professor or a religious scholar. That's all the emails I have. Anything else you want to say on this sort of mailbag front? Let's get into it. I don't even know where to begin with this episode. I do the Bible. Okay. Episode six is called stand still and see which is from the Bible. The episode starts in the Alamo flashback, which we will get to in a second. When they attend church, go down Moses is the, you know, is a song that they're singing in church, right? So Moses gets sort of into the mix long before the Joshua tree lights on fire. Right. Betwixt the Joshua tree fire. Yeah. And the church scene a lot happens. This line stand still and see comes from Exodus, which is Moses's book. If you, if you must know, I mean, that's the big thing before the tree, you know, they got it, they got to exodize before they can see it, before they start getting divine messages. I was expecting stand still and see to be in reference to the burning bush, but it is not. Here's the quote and Moses said to the people, do not be afraid, afraid stand still and see the salvation of the Lord, which he will accomplish for you today for the Egyptians who you see today, you shall see again no more forever, the Lord will fight for you and you shall hold your peace. And so it is right before the parting of the Red Sea. So this is not burning bush time. This is parting the Red Sea time. The part from the Bible that Rue is listening to narrated by Michael York in the car is from Genesis and God saw the wickedness of the man was great in the earth and then every imagination of thoughts of his heart was only evil continually. This happens right before sending the flood. So these are two water based Bible moments, floods and parting of the, of the Red Sea. Quick pause before we go deeper. You're telling me Rue's still on Genesis? Yeah. She hasn't made it out of Genesis yet? No. There's a lot of book left. She's gone to Noah. Well, clearly we knew that she wasn't to Jesus. You know, there's, there's a lot to go between now and then. I wonder who's voicing Noah in this whole stark cast recording of the Bible. If there's a wipe it all out scenario coming for Euphoria, who's the, who's the Noah? Who gets to survive? Oh man. Sydney Sweeney. Team Lexi of the Howard girls. I'm not saying who should. I'm saying who, if there were, who's the cockroach? If there was a flood event and Euphoria gets rebooted around one character, I don't see it based on everything we've seen this season, how it wouldn't be Cassie. I think it should be Maddie. How dare you not nominate your girl? I'm not saying what I want. I'm saying what I believe to be true. This is my Stan Still and See moment. You know, like I'm, I am believing in the vision of the show that has been laid before me. And that is unfortunately for me, not a Maddie forward show all the time. But in terms of like who's likely to come back from Euphoria season four, is it Sydney Sweeney or is it Alexa Demi? I don't know why Alexa Demi isn't in everything. So clearly there is a mystical power in the universe. I don't comprehend. Stan Still and See, Rob. But Sydney Sweeney does feel like she's so game for the show. She feels like more involved and more invested in the greater Euphoria project than basically any other performer on screen. So I think she probably would if it were to continue on. She is one of the few actors giving interviews after the credits roll on the episodes. That's true. Okay. If you have a different nominee for the Noah of the mass flood event that might come for Euphoria, press.com, Alamo cold open, Danielle Deadwiler. I have some notes. I, this is not what I want Danielle Deadwiler doing. And like, I don't, I don't mind the idea of this cold open because, you know, we enjoyed the sort of flashback to people's characters childhoods that we got in previous seasons. We really, really liked that. Yes. Cassie one is really good. The Nate one was really good. Like they're all, all of them are really cow. I love the cow one. The cow one really got to me. And so it's two starts a season two starts with like this Fez's grandma flashback sequence. So in terms of like Sam Levinson wanting to make like a sort of seventies exploitation style sequence, he's already done that in season two. And I actually really quite liked that introduction of astray and all that sort of stuff like that. This I don't feel like taught me anything about Alamo other than to quote someone on Reddit. His mom was a bitch who played him and he made sure he never got played by a bitch again. That's, that's like, I don't think that's quoting, right? That's literally quoting the episode. Right. So like, well, that's the second part is so like, so did you feel like this deepened the character? How did you feel about it? Not exactly. Because I would say the only thing it really deepened about Alamo is this idea of all the times we've seen him within the season, within this episode, just go from zero to 100 at the idea of getting played by somebody. I would just argue that most drug dealers are probably that way to begin with or arms dealers or people working any kind of criminal underground. They don't need an edible sort of moment. Yeah, like you don't want to be made the fool of, does he need a like mommy issues complex that then leads him to put an imitation of his mom's own leg on top of his strip club to resolve something? I'm sure he does need to work it out. I'm sure it's fine. I don't know that we entirely needed that. That sounds therapeutic. It sounds like a nice arts and crafts project, right? You just like really process your issues through like mass paper mache or whatever that was. I was about to say, I think he hand sculpted it. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But I'm with you on Daniel Deadwiler too. Like she is, I love her so much. I have immense respect for her as a performer. And I would say specifically the like tempestuous characters that she could play where they just have all of this like internal something and you're trying to figure out what the hell is going on. Is that a Station 11 reference? I mean, we do remember Damage on this show. You know, this is who we are. But like, I would have loved to see more of that kind of internality from her character. And instead she's like, look, it's an interesting framing of a story, right? Of this idea of the long con that she's playing. But the way it manifests is she's just kind of like a one note tempteress who's here to like all a cart her life. Like I want the money from this guy and I want to live with this guy and I will live in that city and to hell with my son and what he wants. Something that we've noted that Sam Levinson does and sometimes to great effect and sometimes, you know, less so or whatever is he's a he's a great borrower of other texts. And what is true about this story, Alamo's backstory is pretty closely airlifted from the book Pimp by Iceberg Slim, which is like an autobiography of a Pimp. And then this is like the story of his childhood that his mom like was with a Godfaring man who treated her well and stuff like that. And then she and then the only time in his life when Iceberg Slim was happy. And then she like ripped him away into an abusive relationship and stuff like that. So that is seemingly the inspo. And I think I believe Sam Levinson mentions at least Iceberg Slim in the post credit sort of discussion. So there is that nod to where he lifted it from. I really wanted to like this more. I just think Danielle Delweiler is so talented and this is just not, you know, what I would use her for. Yeah, it's like fine enough. But again, did not transform the story or the characters in the way that some of the other flashbacks did. And frankly, I'm not sure I ever quite recover from the fact that his given name is actually Alamo. Even as a Texas guy. Do you have you never met an Alamo? Never met a single Alamo. Okay. It's not just a thing you would do. Name a child Alamo. I guess somebody did. Memorable, at least. Clearly. And we talked earlier this season about like, did he concoct it just so he could do remember the Alamo style gags like he literally did in the season. But I guess it was just in the stars for him the whole time. Right. But he was always loved cowboys. And there's a lot of like there's a yeah. Well, that's nominatively deterministic for sure. If you name your kid Alamo. Like he's going to wear a like a raccoon skin hat on his head at some point. That's just a given. I guess so. Maddie in the club. What do you want to say about it? This is one where I would have almost preferred us having a conversation about this scene, not having access to the post game interview clips from the cast. Because the way Alexidemmy talks about this scene as like, girl coming together in their power. Yeah. That was news to me. Sure. Was that apparent to you in the execution of what this scene was? I thought we were just doing a cool like workers unite moment for Maddie. She's like workers rights. They deserve time off. What are the what are the you know, the labor laws inside of Sturclust? I guess that is women coming together. Yeah. She's standing up. Sure. But the rest of it is a fun girly link up is how Alexidemmy described it. I guess it's some of that. It's like, you know, this is a club that's in need of art direction as it relates to turning it into an Instagram mobile presence. Maddie has a vision. It is saloon doors and I guess like a coyote ugly kind of aesthetic. I could see it playing online. I just don't know that this was like the girl power moment that was suggested in the commentary. Do you wish they had gotten Piper Paribot, a star of coyote ugly to be in season three of euphoria? Do you think she's available? I think she's quite available. Well, then why not? They did get Sharon Stone. Sharon Stone is here. Cassie on the set of LA Nights and Lexi's issue with that. Despite the fact that she memorized all of her lines very closely was quite triggered by this honeymoon phrase, even though presumably it was in her size. It's in the script. Yeah. But she gets triggered. She doesn't know what's real and what's not. And she starts, you know, disassociating to a certain degree and improvising. Dylan Reed, shout out Homer Gare. Like, him improvising with her was genuinely, I thought, one of the funniest moments of the whole episode. No woman deserves to get hit. Well, profound, brave, brave moment. I actually did find Dylan to be quite a generous scene partner. You know, he really rolled with the punches. He really invested in Cassie's story. And I want to give Cassie due credit, you know, like tapping into something deep and dark and unresolved. Is that not just great acting? Is that not the stuff that great performance is made of? Okay. So it's art when Cassie does it. Well, when Alamo crafts a giant paper mache replica of his mom's legs. That's also art. Okay. Just make sure. I just think they both need therapy, but it can also be art. Shout out to Oceana, the George Sera of the LA Soaps. So we'd love to see her here. Lexie, I do not blame her for calling Cassie out in front of Sharon Stone. What has Cassie ever done for Lexie in her entire life? Nothing. So why should Lexie support Cassie in any kind of way? I just thought this was the kind of pod where women support women. I thought we just established that. Is that not what we're doing here? I support Lexie. I did think, look, the bar has been quite low for Lexie this season. I thought this was among the better Lexie stuff that we've gotten, both in terms of having actual things to do and also just like the pure disappointment on Maatapetao's face when Cassie does strike the deal to become a regular. There's just some great physical acting. I think overall the idea of Lexie fighting for something this hard and maybe not quite understanding the opportunity that is in front of her to leverage Cassie as much as Cassie leverages her is like a little blind to circumstance in a way that I wouldn't expect of Lexie, but here we are. That is an email that we got from front of the pod Matt Medovich who was like, why isn't Lexie using Cassie here to boost her career? I mean, it turns out that she does. She will be. In the writer's room, I did not freeze frame Mahoney my way through all of the post-it notes that were up on the breakup board, but behind Lexie in the writer's room scene, there is a quote from Green Bay Packers head coach Vince Lombardi who I did know was a sports guy. And the quote is this, there is no room for second place. There's only one place in my game and that's first place. So a profound Lombardi is on the wall of this writer's room. Of LA Knights. What is the first place they're striving for? In the ratings, first place in provocative entertainment. Well, that's already settled. Euphoria's got it, baby. First place in George Surratt mentions in an LA soap. It's also tough competition. What do you hope happens for this? Do you hope that Lexie writes a great episode of LA Knights that in which Cassie dies? I kind of do. I would love to see that. I would love for Cassie to get a huge elaborate death scene that then she has to act out like Babylon style in repetition over and over and over to increasing insanity. That is something I would be interested in seeing. How much trouble is Cassie in? She has deleted the only fans' accounts, which probably void some agreement in the contract with Maddie, for sure. Or a minimum just the income stream that Maddie relies on. And that's the other thing is the finger of the box. What's in the box? We know it's a finger. It's a finger. She's not going to make the kind of money she needs to make on LA Knights. Sorry, I hate to break it to all of you. I want to be a starless out there, but she's not going to be making only fans' money as a bit player on LA Knights. So she's not going to be bringing in the money she needs to be bringing in. She's screwed over Maddie in some way. That historically has gone very well for her. How's it going to pan out, Rob? Do you have any predictions? I mean, I don't think it's an accident that in the big coyote ugly photoshoot, it is Cassie with the snake posing, getting wrapped up, sizing her up in its way. And her as a character in particular, who would be oblivious to basically everyone's actual motivations, would not shock me whatsoever if all of this was just like Maddie playing with Cassie in the first place. And as soon as she is angered, becomes a whole different beast as a result. Well, because Maddie, unlike Lexie, is like, I know what I can use this woman for. Interesting. And Cassie has welcomed Maddie into her symbolic bed. I don't know. How far can we twist this thing? It's a great question. The snake question is something that's interesting to me because I know I told you that I talked to some of the department heads and I was asking about the snake and I believe it was the production designer was telling me sort of it was someone's idea. The way the snake wound up on set was not sort of a big plot based reason. It was like somebody's idea. And so we've been calling it sort of check off snake expecting that it's going to strangle or eat somebody. And then we get seemingly, and that's not to say that it wasn't placed on set. And then Sam Levinson is like, I know we'll have it strangled or eat somebody. And certainly he and Sam Levinson told me this speech that Bishop gives in this episode was sort of written at the last moment, the speech about the dancer and the snake. And as we discussed before, we started recording that is a very famous like urban legend story, the story of a python who refuses to eat and then the vets like it's sizing you up to eat you, young lady, or whatever the case may be. So that is just an urban legend that was turned into, I thought like a pretty, I don't know, anything Bishop does, I have a good time with. So like whatever. But I don't know if this snake is going to be a plot payoff or just this metaphorical payoff that you're talking about. Right. So I think it's more of the idea. And clearly there are characters all throughout the story who are working with weird motivations. I don't know if Rue is the rat or the snake or kind of both. Again, we've been circling around that all season. I have no idea which one at this point. The rat is dangled in front of her face. Or is she dead? She might be dead. Yeah. I simply don't believe it. But you know, maybe it is a Jacob's ladder scenario. Maybe that's something we have to investigate over the back part of the season. We love a bardo. We're big men. Historically, we do. The Fae and Wayne love story. That is what it is, isn't it? Just a charming love story for the ages. This is a fascinating thing. I will say, I think the second biggest laugh in the room when we were watching was when he plunked that. The SS hat. That hat on her hook in it. I think some people fall in love harder than others, Joe. But there's like where an SS hat get a swastika tramp stamp. That is a level of down horrendous that I don't think many people have ever experienced in their lives or will. Are you regretting that it's not swastika tramp stamp at Gmail? It was right there for the taking. It really was. Actually, that one's probably taken. Really fucking tough. All right. We were looking closely at the various bedside reading material that Wayne has. He's got Helter Skelter, the book about Charles Manson. And then he has a book that we're not going to say the full title of. Nor should we. Gun Blank Manifesto, edited by Hollister Cop. You can ruin your own search history if you want to look at subtitle entertainment for the armed sociopath. I'm going to read the description. I would love it. Even though we debated whether or not we should. Gun Blank Manifesto was lovingly and sincerely devoted to guns, gunplay, gun culture, gun counterculture, gun rights, gun art, gun porn, and ammo. It was also one of the most psychotically inspired literary creatures to emerge from the black lagoon of Zendham, training its sites on an open range of politically correct targets and combining irresponsibly over the top polemics with unapologetically incisive gonzo reportage for an effect that was as smart as it was funny, as it was irreverent. Does Wayne strike you as smart as it was funny, as it was irreverent kind of guy? Or do you think he just saw a gun in the slur that's below it on the book? And he was like, that's for me? I think it was probably that simple or maybe like a white elephant gift or something. But I also just want to say, if you're responsible with the publication of this book, we here at the Prestige TV podcast give you full permission to use Joanna's full read of that blurb and all of your promotional materials. And frankly, I'd love to see it out in the world. And Rob would like to attend a Nazi white elephant party. Okay, not what I said. All right. What do you want to say about Faye and Wayne that we have not already? I just like, okay, first of all, I'm not rooting for these crazy kids. First, I had a question. Sure. Did Rue not already tell everyone about Faye when she saw Faye's lips on the surveillance footage? I guess she hadn't because that's when Alma was like, shouldn't you recognize the voices? I could be, I could be going crazy, but I thought I remembered a line at the end of that episode of like announcing her recognition of this person, maybe not naming Faye, but like, if you say, hey, I know who that is. Well, maybe she's like, I know where she works for Lori. Yes. And then to later say, she's Faye, I've got her number. I can emotionally blackmail her by mentioning our friend who's in prison and get her to do this for me despite her enchanting love story with a Nazi. Maybe it isn't chanting, you know, they did watch Pretty Woman together. They have had some nice moments. He's quite a Nazi. Is anything going to come of the fact that these are fake drugs that they've stolen and, and, you know, it caused Faye extreme gastrointestinal distress. She was just chugging the Pucto on the coffee table. Is that, is that going to come to fruition somehow? I think, look, Faye clearly tried to warn him. Obviously it has to come to fruition. And frankly, I would watch a whole spin off episode or standalone Faye episode in which she goes out in the world and is constantly trying to tell people the truth about things, but people don't take her seriously and leading into a bunch of like Mr. Bean style theatrics as a result. I was, OK, so maybe Faye is your spin off, can it? I was hoping you were asking for a like Nazi and gastrointestinal distress episode. Well, as we learn, Faye is only kind of a Nazi. Right. I guess that's the thing you can beat. Rob, I feel like once you've got the swastikas tramp stamp, it's really a binary situation. You're really all in. There's no, there's no half swastikas. Joanna speaks from experience. OK, great. What a great episode of podcast this is. Ru Zendaya, guess what? Great actress. Also guess what? She's alive. Maybe. I guess maybe I spoke too soon. Maybe. She was not killed by polo mallet. She was not killed by polo mallet though. I did laugh when he like nudged her head at one point with the polo mallet. Yeah. That was pretty great. OK, listen, the elevator scene. The church scene. Yes. Bills the phone call with her mom and then just sort of the reflection afterwards. The comedy of her buried up to her neck on the phone with Faye. Very funny. Very good. On speaker phone. Good. Most importantly, sliding down in her seat during the Laurie and Alamo confrontation with a real like face. All very good. Funny, emotional, all sorts of like that. I was a little surprised by the fact that like when we were shown so much of that conversation Ru was having with her mom and just Ru's side of it, I was like, OK, they couldn't get Nika King back, I guess. She's not going to be at the season, but then she was there. So I was curious why they didn't show that. In the after the episode, she said, I didn't know what Ru's side of the conversation was that I was supposed to be reacting to. I mean, clearly. And this is what a lot of the actresses have said about the season of euphoria is they were only given their scenes or their sides from their scenes or whatever. So they were kept in the dark of the larger shape of the season. So I don't know. It struck me as very odd to watch this, to watch Ru for almost all of this conversation and then to switch to Leslie on the other side of the phone. Well, let's let me start with the conversation part first, because I want to give it due credit. I think first of all, Ru kind of like crying and smiling, leaning on the pew will be one of the visuals that I remember from this season. It's going to be one of the things that really jump out in my memory, in my grasp of what the season was and was about. I also think the conversation from Ru's side of it is shot beautifully, I think immaculately well acted as far as in day as part of it. I think especially the part where the camera is sort of like coming up behind her, like as if someone was like, there's just this menace to the camera coming up behind her, as if someone was going to like walk in and just sort of like shoot her in the head in that church or something like that. When, and then it just like pulls around in front of her. So there's no one walking up behind her, but there is just this sense of like menace and doom, looming over Ru here at the end of the season. And especially like as she goes through this speech, which I do think hits quite hard about her need for redemption and salvation and kind of like the grasping at just the idea that a future could be ahead of her. All of that stuff, I think works really, really well. And then we get the pan to Leslie, who I was like, again, inexplicable why that's there. Because if you're going to show the one-sided part of the conversation, Fez style, just do it. Showing Leslie at the end to say one line and disappear. It felt almost as if the only reason she's there is so that later when Bishop threatens her mom, it's like, oh, we just saw her mom. Right. Remember her? Interesting. What's interesting to me about that Bishop interaction is Alamo had already sort of dropped that threat in the previous episode when he was sort of describing Ru's home. You know, in the diner scene with Maddie, he was just sort of like, I didn't grow up in a nice place like Ru grew up on a cul-de-sac, like being very specific of like, I know where your family lives. I mean, I guess I shouldn't be surprised by Ru's like inability to hold on to a thing. But like for Ru to be so sort of like shocked and appalled and dismayed that Bishop talked to her mom, I was like, Alamo already intimated that this was happening, that your family was being threatened and something like that. Do you think in talking to Leslie, Bishop asked at any point, have you been calling your daughter a ton because she's been taking calls from mom on her phone nonstop? Like, do you think he's been like, hey, when's the last time you talked to Ru? She's doing really well. Like, is it, you know, how much does Bishop know? I guess it's the question we are always asking ourselves. I presume that that character is a lot all the time and is kind of several moves ahead, maybe not of the poker game, but of a lot of other things. And so, I mean, we kicked around the idea of like, could Bishop also be an informant, right? And it's like, certainly, I think when he brings up her mom, you're meant to wonder that. Like, is he alluding to the calls to her fake mom? I guess, but since he like sawed someone up and fed them to pigs in last week's episode, I'm kind of out on a secretly a DEA agent. How far did he donnie brass go his way into this? I don't know. But maybe there's a third way where he is like plotting his way out with a big bag of money or whatever and playing to flip Alamo at the opportunistic time and knows kind of what Rue is up to more than he lets on. I'm glad you brought up the DEA. I'm always glad when you bring up the DEA, but I'm glad you brought up the DEA because that was another sort of like doom moment looming over the episode when the DEA says we're almost there, stay sharp. I'm like, I don't think this is going to go for Rue. Just way too many of those lines. To go back to the church. Yeah, please. Which is what you want to talk about. I did think this was another interesting character beat for Rue, where she talks so much in this moment about starting over and the want for a new life. And that's kind of the theme of her conversation with Jules too. But I think it's interesting that her imagination can kind of like only go so far as to want to start over by grabbing onto this person she grew up with in Jules. It's like her vision of a future is like, let me try to hold onto this one good thing. When I think what she needs more than anything is like move the fuck away from all of these people and all of these places and start somewhere completely fresh. And I don't know that she's ever going to get to that point. One of the things she was looking at in the church was the portable 10 commandments that the family in Texas gave to her. And their address was scrawled on the bottom of the 10 commandments. So is there a possibility that rather than dying, or she's already done, Rue goes and joins the sort of like Amish farm and like milks cows at the end of the season? It did have a certain appeal. Which is places with the eldest daughter who wants to leave. And Rue's just like, I'm going to be milking cows now. Well, first of all, we can't just like, will that poor daughter into a life she couldn't begin to understand. Not, not. Well, you want to be a drug mule. You're already in Brownsville, just cross the border. Is there anything more romantic than getting an SS hat dropped on top of your head and being told that you shouldn't be a mule anymore? He wants to take her away from this crazy life. What else do you want to say about Rue in this episode? Can we circle back to the larger Alamo-Lori standoff in which Rue is slinking into the couch and slowly evaporating. I had a bunch of different kind of sensations during like in watching this for one, like I love the setup. I love the like loading, the dramatic loading of the guns, the kind of like mounting of their respective horses. There's a shot of Faye in the doorway as the Nazi, etc. all go off. There's like very the searchers like this like silhouetted doorway shot that's is clearly evocative in that way. Then they get there and it's like everyone's like, you know, it's classic standoff kind of format. Rue is in the middle. Everyone's holding their holsters. And I just could not escape the feeling that I do not understand what Lori as a character is doing within this season. Other than you need this narrative counterposition. I was just so much more interested in Lori when she was the queen of her own little hill versus like a feuding warlord opposite Alamo. I mean, how have you felt about their dynamic? Well, do you think you notorious like bird lover Rob Mahoney just really missed that bird? I am pro bird and anti snake. I want to say for the record. I'm really pro snake. You're pro snake. Yeah. Would you sleep in the bed with the Python? No. Then put your money where your mouth is. Would you sleep in a bed with a bird? Well, I don't trust the birds either. We've all been hitchcocked too much. We simply can't. We had snakes like in our as like our classroom pets growing up. I really like like a garter snake. Corn snakes. Yeah. So like that. Nothing Python level. No, but you know, nothing that could suffocate you. Lori, what is Lori up to? Well, I was wondering if when they raised a whole question about the ambulance operation, if that would cause a light bulb to go off over Rue's head about an angel and what happened with angel, you know, and Alamo's pretending that this is for like plastic surgery when we think it's for transporting organs. You're saying it's like, it's the shepherd for BBLs. You know, it's like, this is not how this works. But like, Rue's remains clueless at the end of the day about what happened with, and that wasn't your question. Your question is what's going on with Lori. No, we can talk about Rue too. I want to talk about all of it. Um, the question is what's going on with Lori. And I don't know because she does not seem to have the upper hand at any moment inside of this confrontation. You know, she robbed him, but they know she robbed him. And so, you know, I don't know. I don't, this whole feuding drug lord thing, it reminded me a lot when you and I were talking about Daredevil when you came on House of R and you were talking about the use of Jessica Jones in a certain scene and you were like frustrated that Jessica Jones, the character, was being used as like dull exposition machine and Matthew Lillard, we love him, but was like getting to do all the quipping. And that's how I felt about watching Zendaya in that scene as a passenger in that scene between Lori and Alamo. Like was her slinky down the couch with her like expression? Very funny. Yes. But I was like, there's a lot of Rue in this episode and there's a lot of great character, tree character stuff, the church stuff is really good, the jewels stuff is good. But I was like, but I am wildly uninterested in watching her be the passenger of somebody else's, someone else's driving the action inside of the Alamo and Lori feud. And Rue was just sort of caught up in the middle of it again and again and again. And that is not what I want for Rue as a character. I think there's also the acknowledgement too that all of that stuff can be true. And yet narratively you understand why Rue kind of benefits from being in the background. Like she is taping this conversation. She's like trying to be invisible. Totally. But is it interesting to watch the one of the most interesting character, one of like the best and most well rounded characters on the show, subsumed by these other two people who just don't hold the screen as well. And there have been other times where Rue as a character, as the sort of like observer narrator, narrator type of character has watched like Cassie and Maddie or you know, whatever the case may be. But that was like, we were all just sort of riveted to what was going on there. And the Alamo and Lori stuff has not been as nearly as successful for me. I don't think so. I think really the show still relies on having one of a couple characters as a crucial counterpoint in every scene that really like grabs you. And Rue is one of them and Maddie is one of them. And I think maybe even at times Cassie can be one of them. Cassie definitely is one of them, you know. But having like really the heavyweight moment of this feel like it's Lori and Alamo. I just don't think Alamo has been built up as a character to warrant that even with the flashback in this episode. And I don't think Lori ever was that or that was ever her best purpose within this story. Right. This, we haven't really given our sort of like broad strokes thoughts on this episode. I think this is maybe my least favorite episode of the season so far. It's just so unwieldy. Yeah. And it is all over the place. And to the extent that it hits for me at all, I think it's mostly Zendaya oriented stuff. And those things are so good. I'm compelled to kind of hold them tightly. But the rest of it is sprawling, not necessarily in a great way. Right. Like even like the Cassie stuff in last week's episode was audaciously fun in a way. Like even if it wasn't my favorite thing that I'd seen, I was just sort of like they really went for something. They really did something. And here, I don't even have that sort of juice to enjoy. But Zendaya, the Ruseff in the church, I'm hoping next week we get more stuff with her mom. All of that stuff is really good. And this is one area where the need to have kind of these backburner storylines, I think works against the show a little bit. Right. We already talked about how we kind of would prefer that you don't even get the Nate check in within this episode. It doesn't really offer anything to the structure of the story other than remind us that he's still out there being threatened by a henchman. But if you take him out, then you kind of lose sight of him for a moment in the story. You don't need to because his finger is there. I mean, that is true. The finger shows up in a box and you're like, oh yeah, Nate, he's in physical, literal physical danger. But I think you could say that about four or five scenes in this episode where it's just if you just kind of streamlined it and focused it even more on what's working, I think it wouldn't feel quite this way. Yeah. Anything else you want to say about this episode? I guess I do want to talk about what the plans are here because I'm a little confused at what's being established between these various gangs on what they're trying to accomplish. Like we have Lori's pitch, which is that she wants Alamo and company really, Rue is kind of the one who's deputized. She wants deputized to do it, to drive the ambulance for like one last big run with all these drugs. Like that's the plan that is pitched. Alamo feels compelled to do it because he wants to get all his stuff back. Lori, who gave Rue a suitcase full of drugs and that went very poorly, is like, I know, let's give her an ambulance full of drugs and that'll be fine. Well, the only reason I'm a little more lenient on that perspective is that we get this illusion by the Nazi dude, Too Fae, that they're like about to pull over one big thing on Alamo and he doesn't see it coming. Do we have any inclination as far as like what that is within this plan? To take the truck full of drugs and not share it with him in any way. But aren't they not intending to share with them? I think they are intending to share it with him. There has to be some sort of split. Otherwise, why would he... I thought the split was you get your stuff that we already stole from you back. Right. You get your money and your drugs. So you get your stuff back. We get all these new drugs hustled across the border. In theory, everyone wins because we're basically holding you hostage for your own drugs, which as we said are not drugs. Are laxatives, among other things. You know, this is a great question, Rob, and thank you so much for asking it. I don't know the inner workings of the minds of a Nazi, unfortunately, so I can't answer it. I appreciate that about you most of all. And I guess Rue's plan and the DEA's plan within all of this is for Lori and Alamo to get pinched in the process of executing this plan that may or may not benefit or not benefit both of them. Yeah, pinched is definitely the modern terminology that we're using here. We like to keep our finger on the pulse. I just like that we're on top of everything that's going on in the show. We definitely have a very good handle on a pot level of everything going on. All right. Anything else you want to say? I do have one final shout out. I think it's very important. I don't want to skirt over it. Alexander the locksmith. I just thought did an impeccable work in this episode. Okay, the 3D printing locksmith. 3D printing. I just like looking real exasperated as he does it. Just like, just the huffing and puffing, like, I'm going to need an hour. We need an excuse to get Rue to the church for an hour. And I'm glad that Alexander was here to do it. I thought he looked resplendent to his like very bizarre looking shirt. But you know what? It fit the character. I feel like this is, so the place that I just moved into has a, here in LA has a, I guess, a hundred year old door and it's got like a very... I've got a lot of questions about the framing of that, but continue. Well, it's like, it's a craftsman and like the house itself has been updated, but they kept the original door. Kept the original door. And it's like very old and very cool and kind of like warped and stuff like that, but like really beautiful. And it's got this like very finicky, like latch thing that kind of falls out sometimes. And so my landlord's like, we have a door guy. And he was like, he's eccentric. Let me stop you. Are any door guys not eccentric? That's my question about the locksmith. I'm like, they have a very specific set of skills. He's a very, like he knows how to fix the hundred year old doors that are on various craftsmen in Los Angeles. So he can be as eccentric as he wants to be. We're out of a chat right now and we're trying to figure out a time for him to come over and like fix the latch on the door. I love that that it's getting fixed for you. I also just believe firmly in my heart that if you are one of these door specialists, if you're a specialist in ingress and egress, you get to be as eccentric as you want. You get to follow your heart, whatever weird paths it goes down. And I feel like this locksmith has taken that prompt to heart, you know? They do seem like a strange sort. When are we going to get a locksmith oriented show? They have a lot of power. Don't give away free ideas, Rob. Dexter but a locksmith. You know, like there's a lot of things we could do here. Are we murdering me? Early edition but a locksmith. Murdering people with the locks? Well, you got to break into their place and make Jacob style and wait for them. Okay. You know, presumably. Great. I've never done it. Coming to you on MGM Plus from Rob and Joanna in 2028. A locksmith but makes it make it Dexter. Great. Okay. Anything else you want to say? Let's get out of here. I think we really did it. That's enough. Happy Sunday. Next Sunday we will be back with another euphoria. Check in and then it'll be the finale. One of them we're threatening to broadcast live. Rob has not agreed to it yet but we're getting close. We're getting close. Could be the finale. The pitch needs to be made. We've got to win some compensation. I don't know. You don't want to wade through the waters of black exploitation and Nazis and gun blank slur manifestos and all these other things. Lives beamed out to YouTube without any cuts. Look, the people out there don't know how many of your slurs we have to edit out of this podcast. How many times I dumped tea on myself? Thank you. Jacob Cornette. Stefan Aldo. Kai Grady. Rob Mahoney. Thank you, Joe. Also, thanks to all the men out there who do need instruction on how to jerk off. I thought it was a great source of comedy in this episode. I appreciate it. Thanks to all the men out there who say no woman deserves to get hit. The bold states. So brave. All right. We'll see you soon. Bye.