‘Widow’s Bay’ Episodes 4-5: The Witching Hour

Hello, welcome back to the Press C's TV podcast. I'm Jordan Robinson. I'm Rob Mahoney. We're here. It's Widows Bay Day, Rob. I mean, the hour is upon us. We're here to talk about episodes four and five. We're feeling pretty good about the way we're covering Widows Bay, but if I have any regrets, is that we didn't get to do an instant episode four reaction podcast. We should have been in here the second the episode ended. With like my little stick figures. I assume you have them at home. I mean, I don't leave home without them actually. They're in the car right now. Which stuff? Okay, so episode four, Beach Reads. Episode five, What to Expect on Your Trip. That's what we're going to be talking about today. If you were not aware, we're covering Euphoria week to week. Weird energy on a Sunday night. We come into the studio, we watch it live, and then we record fairly shortly thereafter. So I would recommend, even if you're not watching Euphoria, maybe tune into those podcasts. We basically have Patricia's party energy. Just our mouths hanging open in a spooky way. So that's something we're doing. We're also doing a couple sort of teen show look back episodes. So we covered skins UK season one episode one. Had a great time with it. A lot of people were very excited that we covered it. I was very excited that we're covering it. I would say a small but focal audience. We're like super stoked that we covered skins season one series one episode one. So are those our people? Small but very passionate about something. We have already recorded our Friday at lights episode, which will be running next week. And then after that, we will be checking in on five and six, six and seven rather because they're air. It's a double drop. So if you're a widows Bay head and you didn't know this, they're doing a double drop for six and seven. We think that we're not sure. We think we're going to be doing week to week after that. But you folks at home, email us. Let your voices be heard. How can they email us? PrestigeTV at Spotify.com. Leave a comment. Spam those comments. Just keep that YouTube episode running in the background, whatever you're doing to keep the views up. Absolutely. We'll keep checking in on widows Bay. Hit the Instagram likes share with your friends. We're outsourcing. Yeah. It's not our responsibility. It's your job to keep the views up. No, the views were like higher than we thought they'd be. So people are digging the show. Holy on widows Bay. I mean, how could they not? Okay. So episode four, Beach Reads was written by Mackenzie door door of fucking Wanda vision fame. Let's fucking go. The dark hold is here. I'm thrilled. Wanda vision. I love you always. And then directed by Sam Donovan, a severance director, among other things. And then episode five, what to expect on your trip was written by Colton Dunne, who had a brief role in parks and recreation. I know him best for playing Garrett on Superstore, a show that I actually like really enjoyed. And he's a comedy writer as well. So he wrote that episode. And then directed by Andrew DeYoung, who we've talked about is, I thought a comedy director, you corrected me that that is not really the vibe of his work in general. It's complicated. Did episode five feel in, in tonally in line with what you've seen from Andrew DeYoung, chair company, among other things that you've seen from him before. I mean, it has the same whiff of like, maybe not conspiracy, but broader suspicion as you're tripping out of your mind and you don't know what's going on or who you can trust and all those elements. But honestly, somehow this felt less insidious than the chair company did. So, you know, there are levels to all this stuff. Even when he's staring into sort of like a blackened door, the abyss gazing. Our guy Tom Lattice gazing into the abyss, hearing like distorted sounds coming from it and you're like, this is child's play compared to the chair company. I mean, capitalism is a hell of a thing. We got a lot of widows bay emails, press to us to be at Spotify.com. So we're going to hit a brief mail, mail bag. We're going to check in on each individual episode. Our fresh, fresh as a Daisy takes on episode four that everyone is like still clamoring for. You joke, but people are clamoring for, I would say specifically your takes on four. It was for me. You are seen and known in this moment. It is my favorite episode of television this season, this year. Yeah, I would certainly put it up against anything that we've covered, anything that I've seen so far. I love Nine of the Seven Kingdoms as like a season of television this year. I thought it was extraordinary. We of course loved, enjoyed covering the pit together, but as like an episode, an isolated episode of television that I'm going to remember for a long time, it's going to be the Which Stuff Go episode of widows bay episode four. I just thought it was extraordinary. We love to see it. We love to see it done right. Like, I mean, we'll get into it in detail with the episode, but it's just a tonal tight rope, a masterclass in character. It's just such a great episode. It's so good. All right. Jesse wrote in, and I love a theory Jesse really came through. Jesse wrote in to say, I should have sent this before episode four came out because it would have been more impressive, but oh well, it seems to me like they haven't shown Bashir's wife yet because she's going to be revealed to be pregnant. And the urgency to move off the island is because if they wait too long and the child is born there, they're stuck. Their quest for mint chocolate chip ice cream is definitely hidden this direction. So in episode four on the radio or whatever, she's like, bring home some mint chip. He's like, I'm on it. This did not ping for me because mint chip ice cream is actually like one of my number one go-to flavors. I love mint and chocolate together. I support you. You don't. I know you don't. I know you hate mint and chocolate together. I'm glad you can have that and I can have the good flavors. Okay, great. It didn't ping for me. It's not like bring me pickles and ice cream and I'm like, that's a pregnant lady. But for some people, they're like mint chip or ice cream, a specific ice cream request at all, pregnancy coded. This is a brilliant idea. My theory was she's dead. I far prefer she's alive, but pregnant. What do you think? I mean, you are constantly on dead wife watch. You know, it's Nolan season. You've been conditioned to look forward in every corner. This does make more sense to me and it certainly facilitates the talk of Bashir and his wife trying to move and get off the island. And it sure seems like especially in five, we're kind of navigating some of that same territory with Tom and his wife too. I mean, are we to assume, this was my assumption, that when they are on the ferry where Tom's wife first starts like going blind and having these complications that they're going to the mainland, right? Yes, absolutely. And that's, you gotta get the fuck out of here. Presuming you weren't born there. So like my, let's, let's talk about this, the very end of episode five, right? We get these visions of, or memories of Tom and his very pregnant wife on the ferry. I don't think the ferry goes anywhere but the mainland would be my guess. So it could be an island hop and ferry. An archipelago. And as long as you stay on the islands, you're fine. But they're at a certain, like to use lost parlance, a certain heading, right? Yes. That, where's the fuselage? Exactly. I, so the, the theory, the legend we got earlier in the season was if you go to the mainland, you die. Right. So they didn't make it all the way there. Tom is screaming for the ferry to be turned around. So it seems like she went blind on the ferry. Yes. Turned it around, had the baby on the island. They said the baby was fine. Right. But I think she had him on the, I think they're back. Oh, eventually, yes. I think they're back on the island, like turn the ferry around. Right. They're back on the island. The story was she died in childbirth, right? She's from childbirth, but she's alive though, unwell after the baby is born. Well, I guess like are we to assume that the baby has been born or is it just the baby is doing fine as a check? I don't think she's pregnant anymore as she's sitting in that bed. I'm going to be honest with you. The visual of her sitting in that bed was so terrifying to me. I did not take a second look at it. So we, we have to investigate the tape to see, I mean, just our favorite game here of like, which woman is showing at which point in which show. We love to body check women. That's our favorite thing to do. Famously fertile ground for discussion. Absolutely. So my interpretation was she had the baby back on the island, but she's not clearly not well. No. Right. But we don't know what happened. And it doesn't seem to be the same story that we've heard as is often the case on Widow's Bay. You hear one thing, you see another, whatever, if you take certain mushrooms. Anyway, point being, if Bashir, the sheriff's wife is pregnant, this introduces different mistakes to his story, you know, because I love this premise about, you know, especially in episode five, which is all about Tom and his discomfort with lack of control. Right. Again, who could possibly relate? It couldn't be us. I do fear like hallucinogenics because of. Of course we do. That lack of control. Are you kidding me? There are other drugs where I'm like, sure, that's fine. But hallucinogenics, I'm like, I'm not in control. I'm not driving the bus. You know, a fun, buzzy, heightened state. Sure. Sure. Yeah. Complete lack of control and perception and literally understanding of where you are in place and time. That's going to be a no from me. It's not for Robin Joanna. That's for sure. No. Anyway, but so he's preoccupied throughout that episode with Evan, right? So introducing Evan as, it's a very humanizing thing for Tom, right? Tom is in many ways a tough character, you know, is rude, is all these other things, but he cares so deeply about his son. Right. And so fearful for his son, praying to a God he doesn't even know if it exists to protect his son. And so introducing this idea of this danger, he doesn't know how dangerous it is out there is what Tom says. So this danger for Evan, a kid born on this island has never left this island because Tom is so, because this thing happened with his wife and Tom is so afraid it's going to happen to his son. So what is that going to do to a character like Bashir who has a pregnant wife? And that's really potentially very interesting, you know? I also love the way both of these episodes are really delving into all of the mythology and the creepy stuff happening on the island, but in like the stories we tell kind of way, right? All of Patricia's arc and story in episode four is so much about like she is so sure, or at least telling people that she's so sure that she was visited by the boogeyman. We can. Hashtag I believe Patricia. I'm at the point where I believe her, but also I wouldn't be surprised if we get a reveal where it was like a classmate playing a prank like somebody was breaking into her house as a mean bit. Patricia. But regardless, it's about like the stories you are telling out in the community, who you're telling them to, what the costs of those things are. And so for Tom and Bashir, you would think if something as intense and scary as what seems to happen to a Tom's wife actually happened, someone like Bashir would know about it. But also that's maybe the kind of story you keep very tight, very quiet all to yourself. If Bashir and his wife have all of the facts, they should be operating with a much greater sense of urgency. It should be already gone. That's what I'm saying. Provided that neither of them were born on the island, which I don't think we know that information. Yeah, I don't think we know either. To your point, and I will go back to the mailbag, but I really loved this interview that Kitty Dippold gave the wrap about episode four, just about how they came up with the concept for the episode. And it really unlocks something for me about like the way in which they're thinking about these fun horror tropes and how they relate to these like fully fleshed out characters that they've created here. Right? So she says, one of the writers had this idea of a self-help book that goes wrong. And it started a conversation about what are Patricia's fears? One thing I always think about with Patricia is the thing that is scarier to her than the idea of dying is the idea of dying and no one caring about it. That brought in the one thing we always try to do when we're using these horror tropes, which is tell a story about a character who is feeling very real human emotions. The conversation became what if she had a party and we got really into the stress of throwing a party and not knowing if anyone's going to show up. I've experienced that myself. That's Kitty, but also Joanna. I've experienced that. Is that fear? Everyone in the room has experienced that or something similar. So we just went from there and really tried as much as possible to stick to that, even though the book is scary. There's nothing scary to Patricia in that episode than no one coming to her thing. Sidebar, I can't remember if I've talked to you about this. I know I talked to someone about this on a podcast, but my friend in college used to call it a little man-tate party in the film Little Man Tate with Jodie Foster. She throws us a elaborate birthday party for her son and nobody shows up. So my friend Sarah in college would be like, what if it's a little man-tate party? What if no one shows up? That's never happened to me, but it's a real fear. But this idea of, okay, as the writers in this incredible writer's room are plotting at the season and they're like, let's do a Jaws episode, let's do a Shining episode, let's do this, applying that idea of what is Patricia's greatest fear to episode five, what is Tom's greatest fear, lack of control. So let's do a drug trip episode and put him out of control, I think is a really fun skeleton key to unlock the rest of the season as we go through these episodes. Very much so. Yeah, interlocking all of that mythology and the trope stuff with the character beats. And I think specifically for Patricia in something like becoming an accidental witch, where a lot of witch stories, I mean, we all can aspire to it. But I feel like a lot of witch stories and specifically a lot of modern witch stories are about community, right? It's about covens. It's about like, how do you connect with your sisters of the dark arts? And this is so much a story about loneliness and about desperation. And like she's kind of turning to this stuff accidentally because she's like been shut out by her entire community. Thank you so much for talking about witches, Rob. It means a lot to me personally. I love nothing more. But if you think of something like, on the Taylor Joy and the Vovovovitch, right? Like that that film is about it is about finding another community, but about feeling on the outside of the community that you live in. Yeah. But spoiler alert, there is a community to be found. There is a community to be found at the end of the day. It's naked. It flies. It's great. But like, which is the rule? But yeah, it's about being an outsider, being misunderstood, being, you know, all of these things. Yes, sir. We got very dearly held in the mail bag. That's OK. We're back. Sarah has a great email about Patricia's wardrobe, right? She says, I just wanted to note that while there are many obvious nods to Stephen King throughout, was I the other one who thought a punch bowl full of pigs blood might be hidden in the rafters during Patricia's toast? Yes. One slightly more subtle connection to King was Patricia's wardrobe. Top notch, tank top and great pattern clashing combos. I particularly love the coolots and red cardigan. She shouts out the costume designer, Alex Bobard. It's no accident that as well as hints of Carrie Prom Queen, she's dressed throughout like Shelley Duvall in The Shining. Yeah. Shelly had such iconic style and Kate O'Flynn has a similar offbeat beauty. Wardrobe often gets overlooked, but I think they're doing fantastic work here. Thank you, Sarah, for that email. But I love that calling out that Patricia's wardrobe specifically, like, you know, this is a this is a quirky island full of quirky people, but everyone looks like they're dressed relatively, I would say, with the exception of some of Evan's friends who kind of look like they could be from the 70s or whatever. As is our time. Kate O'Flynn, like as Patricia is very Shelley Duvall, like late 1970s coded in her wardrobe. It's a great show. And it's a really good call. And the Carrie comp is right there. Sorry. I mean, the tiara is there. The tiara and just kind of like the mean girl energy permeating around Patricia. Yeah. First of all, shout out the Patty Wagon, which is the name of her bookmobile, which is incredible. Not to put you on the spot, but as a book lover yourself, do you have a name based pun that you would embrace if you were to drive your own wagon? I need a week to think about it. I would love to hear it. I will come back. I would love to your recommendations. SuperstigeTV at Spotify.com. This is, I would say, your one true calling, you know, if I had a bookmobile and was a witch, this is my dream. Can I tell you there's nothing stopping you and a bonfire on the beach and potentially vengeance on my enemies. Come on. I mean, that's really the icing on the cake. On. OK. In the Patty Wagon bookmobile donation box, along with the grimoire that finds its way there, is a copy of a Stephen King book. They don't show the title just as Stephen King, but it is a copy of the shining because I did look up which book it was. So I mean, you impress me every day. Just truly incredible detective work. That was some real freeze frame Mahoney work, I thought. But once we get into novel book spines, I just simply don't have the point of reference. Now you show me a shelf of DVDs and you're like, Detective Night Country. And you're like, why are they watching Ferris Bueller over and over again? I have some questions. I've sorted through some bins in my time. That's true. That's true. We got a couple of emails of people asking, you know, you brought up the great kitty dipple, Bobadook tweet, which she was on the Script Notes podcast and they asked her about it. So shout out Craig Mason and John August doing the great journalism work. But how much is that Bobadook tweet present in your mind when you're watching something like episode four, watching Patricia at a party? I didn't even quite put it together in that way. What's so great about the Bobadook tweet is at some point in our lives, we are all the Bobadooks, right? Like we are all the Bobadook in the wrong room. And so it's just Patricia's turn. When have you been the most Bobadook at a party? Man, I got to really think about that. What it's not an overdressed, underdressed situation. I think it's just you're bringing the wrong energy to this setting. Yeah. So there has to be a time. I mean, here's a vision I have of a moment where Rob is the Bobadook. You go to like watch movies with some friends or something like that, not like your friends that you have, you're Leonardo DiCaprio marathon. Like some other new friends or something like that. Fringe friends, perspective friends, perspective friends. They're not paying attention to the movie. And you're like heartbreaking. Why are we chattering when a movie's on? That's my idea of it's very tough. You just like instantly get a hat on your head because you've Bobadook yourself, you know, that was me trying to show some friends what hot American summer. Yeah, maybe my favorite comedy of all time. And like the pin drop silence in that room. I was like, oh, no, no, no, I've really Bobadooked it. Do you want to get stories from our listeners when they Bobadook? Please. OK, press to be at Spotify.com. If you've ever Bobadook at a party. Now, not if when you did. If we know you have, we've all done it. OK, Jillian wrote in with a question that that was sort of like bopping around in my head, which is that the actor, Kingsley Rumi Southwick, who plays Evan, who we already said we like really love, he is a biracial actor. The actors playing his parents are white. In presumed innocence, the show that we saw him in previously on Apple, he was the child of Ruth Nega and Jake Gyllenhaal, so like a biracial kid with, you know, the sibling of Chase Infinity, the sibling of Chase Infinity. So like he's here playing the son of two very white people. Aggressively. Is is there something, you know, like I don't think you get wider than Welsh. And I say that as a person of extraction. Sounds very true. So, you know, Jillian was sort of cooking some theories around this. I I have been burned by these kinds of theories in my West World days. I don't think it's necessarily the right track to go down, but it did it did like sort of raise a question mark in my in my mind. And perhaps, you know, the show is just sort of like, we don't care. Yeah, you know, well, it's certainly a thing to flag. I think the greater mystery around his birth, the incredibly weird circumstances surrounding it, right? That's up for grabs. And we're going to be talking about it for potentially weeks to come. So if you wrote in a couple of people wrote in to note that we did not reference John Carpenter's The Fog when talking about influences. But I do want to and I don't get credit for this, because I didn't say it into a microphone, but I do want to say I did text Rob when we were floating back and forth some inspo's for this. I said it's John Carpenter's The Fog meets Stephen King's The Mist. That was a joke I made, but I didn't say it into a microphone, so it doesn't count. But yeah, it wasn't a joke. It's just what the show is. It is. But yeah, John Carpenter's The Fog is is very much top of mind here. And then Sophie also wrote in Sophie is a real horror movie expert. Wrote in to say, as an aside of my favorite with throwaway reference to a horror movie is our girl, Patricia's reference to The Bogeyman. One of the things that people in the town of Haddonfield call Michael Myers. So like we were sort of already noting this this Halloween reference. But she says when Patricia talked about The Bogeyman, she says she refers to her experiences as quote, the night he came, which is almost the exact tagline of the movie Halloween, which is the night he came home is the tagline for Halloween. So that's that's I totally went over my head. Great. Great. Great. Great. Great. Great. John wrote in to ask us the larger question of how long should a show run? I think that's just something I want to continue thinking about as we go through this season. You and I were asking this question after the first three episodes of like, how many seasons of Widow's Bay do we want? There's a part of me that wants it to run forever. But then there's another part of me of like, if it's, you know, if there's mysteries to be solved on an island, Carlton Qs and Damon Lillilof can tell you there's a limit to that. There is how many mysteries you can have on a haunted island. But also multiple seasons of 22 episodes, to be honest with you. And then if we're doing, if we're sort of riffing on horror movie tropes, how many of those do we have to go through? There's a ton of horror movies, but in terms of like those tropes, how many of those exist, you know, it's true. Do we move away from sort of the like trope of the week ideas? It goes forward or, you know, these are questions for Kitty Dippold and her writers, but you know, a question for us is what's too much of a good thing? I know. Or something like that. I think these days were inundated with so much of anything that is even remotely good that I'm already a finality oriented person, despite the fact that we covered TV for a living. So the deafness with which the show is dealing with its characters feels so tight and controlled and it feels like they just have their finger on the pulse of this exact story. I'm a little scared once we get past the confines of this individual season and story into what a season two could be. But also like if you've earned that trust, you've earned that trust. And like, you know, we don't we don't know if there's going to be, say, like a Dale episode or a Rosemary episode this season. But I could see that being something we do in a season two. We can only hope and pray there's a Rosemary episode. I I'm pulling for my guy Dale. I love him so much. All right. Check, check. One, two, one, two, one, two, three. Check, check. It's a surprising complicated system. He doesn't have Spotify premium. The way after Patricia scolds him and then he starts whispering it into the microphone. Can we get Dale hooked up with Spotify premium membership? Is literally the least we could do. I think so. Let's call the suite. Get him on the case. We mentioned we're New Jersey in our previous episode. Our listener, Beth, wrote in to say in high school, we drove our car to a legendary spot in North New Jersey where if you put your car in neutral, it goes slowly and reverse on its own like you're being pulled by a ghost. It really works and is freaky. The legends that a family of farmers were killed in a car crash and they haunt the area. I have to presume, though, Beth did not note this, that you're not on any kind of incline, right? The premise, the idea is you're presumably parked flat. And all of a sudden, if your car is in neutral, it will be pulled slowly backwards. Could not be me. I will not be doing that. No, would you do that? I think that's totally fine. I'm not going into the boogeyman house, but a spooky magnetism. What if an off island girl would be impressed by you doing so? Something to think about. You know, it could be negotiated. But so are you out on anything even remotely spooky? Like the Winchester Mystery House? I've been to the Winchester Mystery House multiple times. Yeah. What is your mileage as far as that experience goes? When I was little, it scared the shit out of me. And then do you remember that they made a movie about it? I actually didn't know that. Oh, yeah. With Helen Mirren, Jason Clark. They did the junket at the Winchester Mystery House. I went and the only thing that could get me back to the Winchester Mystery House after being scared shitless about it as a child was the prospect of interviewing Helen Mirren, which I did inside the Winchester Mystery House. It's really the only place to interview a dame. Yeah. My hair was purple at the time. And she said she liked my hair. I don't think she did. I don't think she did. I don't think she was just like, just the thing you said. I think she was shocked and alarmed by it. And she said, I like your hair in a way that I think she did not like my hair. That's OK. They may choose to take her at her word. OK, great. Believe a dame when she says something. Our listener, Lily, wrote in, I didn't mention this, but I didn't know this. As a fellow Buffy fan, Lily said, I couldn't not point out that the actress who plays Jerry also played Pat Joyce's empanada baking friend from Book Club in Dead Man's Party, a true icon. Pat, a legend in this very patchy season two episode of Buffy the Vampire Slayer. What are you saying? By patchy, you mean unimpeachable. Haunted exotic mask is is not my favorite trope that Buffy has ever used. I got bad news for you about Buffy in general. It's not for last time that will be explored. And then all the more exciting with the Buffy connection, the fact that Jerry is now one of the Scoobies. She and Rick have a history. They really do. And she is a like Smithsonian level. She put the gloves on. She put the gloves on and she's a math teacher, I guess. So she really can do it all. You can on this island. You have to do it all. You have to do it all. All right. Last question from our listener singer. Are we shipping Patricia and Tom? I'm not. Patricia did have a slightly weird energy when she's like, oh, you picked up a woman. Yes. Interesting. And part of that was the sort of like really funny like age stuff. Right. But was there some energy from Patricia about that? I think there definitely could be. I appreciate their bond nonetheless. Follow question. They're leashed to each other inside of this episode. There's a lot happening. I love how over Tom's like drug trip shit. She Patricia constant like anytime we check back in with her, she's like, yes, Tom, very good. Use your crayons. Use your crayons, Tom. I'm kind of into it. I'm going to keep my eye on it. I'm not not into it, but I will say the warmth regardless of when they find Patricia at the end of four. And just like, and they're like, come join us. We like, we're going to need you. You know, it's a powerful thing to be needed. I got very emotional about that. One of our listeners run into saying they wanted my Blair Witch story. So I'll just say it into a microphone, which is that when the Blair Witch project came out, a friend of mine, still my friend to this day, invited me over to his house, made pesto burgers like on the grill. And then I had a Sobi, which was a white flavor, which is pina colada. And then we went to go watch the Blair Witch project and I got tremendously ill. And in the chilies afterwards, I vomited in the bathroom. So. Was you also went to chilies? That was not mine. That was not, I wanted to go home. Oh, got you. Because I was ill. My friends who I were with were like, let's go hang out at Chili's. And I was like, and then I went into the bathroom, threw up, but I came out, I was like, I just threw up in the bathroom. And they're like, OK, well, we ordered you a shake. I was like, cool story. I'm going home. I will not be drinking that delicious chocolate shake. And for the record, that was not a judgment. This is approach Chili's podcast. But you listed four great tastes that do not taste great together. The Blair Witch, a pina colada, so be a pesto burger and potentially a chili's milkshake. I have not had a pesto burger since. I don't even know if it's a thing. It's not a thing. I've not had it since. A white. So I don't think I've had a so be since that ended my relationship with so be's. I don't think a lot of the I don't think a lot of like the living world has had a so be since made it out of the 90s. And that's OK. And I am fearful of shaky cam horror movies ever since. But anyway, that's my Blair Witch. And then we ran into a guy we went to middle school with in the lobby and he told us he said dead guy under a bridge once. That's a story that that's my Blair Witch story. What a day for you. It was a real bad. Do you think it was the shaky cam specifically that kind of upset your system? Absolutely. It wasn't the horror. It was just like I was thinking it was just the pesto burger and so be cop. Perhaps if I had gone in without that unholy combination in me, I would have had a better time. If you would have been the same thing, but gone to see must love dogs, it would have been fine. Well, that's ill inducing of its own in its own right. You know what I mean? I think if I were ever to see a shaky cam thing again and and I've made it my mission not to, I would go in with a completely empty I would be like water and saltines for that day. Treat it like a boat trip. That's how I'm saying it. The Blair Witch Project. Let's get into episode four. Beach Reads. Can I talk to you about teeth in witchcraft and mythology? I would be disappointed if you didn't. Teeth have been an ongoing thing, right? Yeah. There were teeth mysteriously on the island when when the original settlers got there. We had the tooth game in the in the hotel episode. Teeth are, listen, I'm not a witch. Though I wish I was in witchcraft in general. One can use fingernail clippings, hair, whatever, to sort of like do a spell to control someone. So teeth is is one of the like sort of key iconic things that you can use to control someone. It doesn't seem harder to get than the other things. Well, that's what the pliers are for in the teeth game box. OK, and then in terms of mythology, and I often am Jason and the Argonauts. Or Cadmus. Yeah. In in in sort of Greek mythology, there's the story of sewing dragon teeth in a field. Do you do you ever learn this story? OK, so Jason of Jason and the Argonauts fame was given dragon teeth and told to sew them into the ground. And if he did, extremely strong and powerful warriors would pop up out of the ground every for every tooth you planted, a powerful one to one tooth to warrior. Exactly, as you would expect and hope. They're scary, they're violent in both the Cadmus story and the Jason story. The solution to not get killed by them is to throw a rock in the middle of them and they each think that someone else through the rock in the first place and then they all kill each other. Wow. And so these guys are dumb. They're dumb and they're strong. So the the phrase to sew dragons teeth means to do something that has that will cause a fight. Yes, right in the first place. Does I don't need that have anything to do with the show? I don't know. But I thought while we're talking about witches, I might as well talk about mythology. We got witches, we got teeth. There could be powerful but dumb warriors in episodes to come. Can only hope, you know, it's July 1st. That's what we know from the invite, the evite that Patricia sent out. Obsessively refreshing. Sad, really tough, really tough to watch, honestly. Yeah. July 1st. And then it's one day later in episode five. So it's July. So they guess they're doing July 2nd fireworks. Yeah, I guess it depends on maybe maybe it's like a weekend thing. Sure. Yeah, it's it's the Friday or the Saturday and the 4th is on a Monday and who wants to do fireworks on a Monday. Yeah, I guess. Or maybe they plan to do it. I guess all weekend. Do we have any confirmation that it's not a few days later? We do because unfortunately, I was hoping it was the 4th. But Bashir said to Patricia, there's some people who woke up in the ocean last night and they have some questions. So yeah, maybe that was just recreational, you know, and they're blaming Patricia yet again. Sure. So yeah. I mean, you spiked the punch one time. Just one time. You let your all of your friends and like neighbors get overrun by the Necronomicon one time. And this is what happens. I do have some questions for like how this spell works because obviously Rosemary sees right through it, you know, the whole time. Well, she was getting the ingredients. Well, when you get the when we get the reveal, honestly, one of the best reveals that has ever happened in all of television. Exquisite. Even though you know that like something's going wrong, of course, and a spell is being cast and all this or the visual reveal, the Kevin Carroll is Bashir's delivery of the fuck are you doing? So good. So outstanding. But when she goes out into the into the bar and sees sort of the wreckage of the party and there's like little cups turned over, like a little bit of fur and scalp in them. Yeah. I'm just sort of like because I was like, OK, as soon as they drink the punch. Yes. Spells cast, but presumably it's cast before that because presumably you would not drink the punch if you saw a bit of a woodland critter floating in the first place. Right. Well, this is where I think, you know, the little centerpieces on the tables or something like that could come into play. Right. There is a general of bewitching that has already happened before they ever drink the punch. For sure. Playlist. Who knows who knows what spell we're casting. This is how we do it. Add supported. Yeah. That's a bewitching song. This is not a bottle episode. I'm seeing this phrase tossed around on the Internet. Not a bottle episode. Now what that means? What is a bottle episode? I mean, it has to be one location. Premier, I guess every episode of Widows Bay is kind of a bottle episode in the sense that they're on the island. I think if everything took place in the bar, yes, that would be a bottle episode. But I mean, like, first of all, this connect, like this is Patricia's larger story. You know, there are repercussions like repercussions for it in episode five. Like Bashir is still like this is an ongoing investigation into what happened here. And the episode ends with like the death of another care, you know what I mean? Like this is it's a Patricia focused episode, but it's not a bottle episode. And I don't think it's like a side quest in any way. I think this is just all the larger woven tapestry of the island and its history. Right. The boogeyman is definitely coming back into play at some point. So it's just not a bottle episode. No, I would say the best bottle episodes, yes, are a self contained adventure. Yeah. But have like good character repercussions that transcend, but not necessarily plot repercussions. And as you said, there are way too many very important things happening. And the fact that this episode is an undercurrent where it's basically us checking in with what Patricia has been doing while the other part of this story has been going on, distinctly not a bottle. That also makes me really excited about episode five to see sort of like what exactly Patricia and Wick were up to while Tom was indisposed, as it were. Dying of fire, Chris. She almost did, but dying of fire. Chris sucks, right? Chris is the main mean girl. At the same time, I didn't appreciate in the bar the sort of humanizing moment of like she's like all of my friends died. So like she's a mean girl. She's like horrible to Patricia in an outsized like bully kind of way. In a aren't we all adults here? Why are we still acting like we're 16? Right. But we introduce and again, inside of like a 30 minute episode, we introduce some dimensionality to this character, this Chris character at the same time. And to the social dynamics of the island as a whole. Right. Right. Just this idea that it's not that it's this group of women is so clicky that no one can break in. Like we see this woman who just moved to town and she's like just kind of ushered in in a part of the group now. Yeah. It is so much about this history and about the idea that I mean, that part of Chris is totally understandable. If you were surrounded by that kind of tragedy, especially at a young age, the idea that somebody would be like trying to benefit from it for attention of all things would be so distasteful and so enraging that you would. I mean, I think it'd be hard not to carry that with you for a really long time, but she does that and then just like making constant mean comments about Patricia. I think all of the ways this episode kind of very subtly seeds how much on the outside looking at Patricia is with basically everybody in this group. Even something as simple as like, can you take the photo of me and all my friends? We're all drinking white, but you can totally open that red. Like at least don't open that cabinet. And I'm like, of course not. The cabinet full of wine glasses. What the fuck are you talking about? God forbid. Yeah. But yeah, there's just so many ways in which we're told and shown that Patricia is not welcome here. Doesn't feel like she's of this group, even though she potentially could have been once upon a time. We also we called out Kiddoflin as like an incredible performer in the first three episodes, but just like her body language throughout all like when she shows up with the wine in the first place to the party and she's just like immediately awkward and out of place. And and then just everything thereafter, her dancing incredible. So good. And then I just wanted to shout out sort of like the connective tissue between the episodes, because as much as these feel like, you know, the hotel episode, the Seahag episode, etc. The Bachelorette party is here. Yeah. If you go back to episode three, when Tom is asking about Patricia and Dale says she's pretty caught up in her cocktail hour, right? Like that's a fun line on rewatch or watching Patricia leave the voicemail that we heard Tom listen to in episode three. You know, it's just like all sort of woven together in a really, really nice way. Poor went out for the Hussies. Toby Huss's character is dead. I know. That makes me really sad. It's too soon. Way too soon. I want to come back to him a little bit in the categories too. Anything else you want to say? Influences here, Carrie Blair Witch Project, Yellow Jackets for sure. Of course. True Detective Season One, Wicker Man, Green Man Legends, etc. etc. Anything else that you want to call out? I mean, I just all of the witch stuff is so fun. And specifically the idea of like the punches potion, the toast as incantation. Like it just seated so well. But also toast is in you're going to like roast these like light them on fire. Yes. Yeah. Again, like as a laugh per minute exercise, it's a little delayed because everything that's happening with Patricia is so intense. But then once the reveal comes and you see exactly what's been happening in the kitchen, which if we just want to break it down, I mean, there are multiple blackbirds on that cutting board actually rewind before that. The way that Patricia is cutting what we're shown as strawberries is already quite upsetting. Then it's revealed to be a blackbird, at least one. I think there's like multiple carcasses there. Orals and other woodland. Some kind of white furry creature. Oh, this is what you freeze framed on. Not the Stephen King title. No. The animal corpse. I need to see the corpses and you see what's going on. It looks like there's maybe even like a nest of little blackbirds involved. Also a mortar and pestle of just like bones and spooky roots of a kind that I'm not into. But it's part of the craft. I have a question for Chef Rob. Do you have a mortar and pestle? Of course I do. And what do you what's your favorite thing to use it for? Well, here's the thing. Are you a garlic masher person? Economically, it just takes a lot of time. It does. So this is the this is the problem. Mortar and pestle is the ideal way to make pesto. For example, for a pesto burger that will make you very sick. It's just so time intensive. It's like, why would I not food process this? Sure. So you have it as it's decorative. It's decorative. It's I would say like it's good for guac in particular. That I think is the best actual practical application for mortar and pestle or crushing spices. Yeah. Or which stuff? How many bones have been in your mortar and pestle? Zero. Zero. So far. We see the the corpses that you have catalogued and quantified. There is also like a I don't know what you call it, like a deli sort of like buzz saw situation. What is that? Yeah, it looks like a meat slicer. A meat slicer. Like but the serrated edges was just like dripping with blood. So what what did we what did we slice? Well, again, how are you supposed to get through that bone with just like a really dulled kitchen knife from the salty whale? Just like chopping like this. Don't chop. Don't chop your strawberries that way. Don't do it. All right. Anything else you want to say about episode four? We'll pick it to five. I just fucking loved it. It was so good. And I will, you know, to revisit the part about Patricia's story. I don't know how to make heads or tails of that just yet. As far as what's true or what's not, I almost don't exactly care or think that we need to know. It's like the idea that she believes it's true and other people don't is enough tension for me. You think we're but OK, yes, whether or not she's telling the truth, I could see that being not revealed. But we're definitely getting a bogeyman episode, don't you think? There's a lot of bogeyman references. I mean, we visited the house. Yeah, we saw the house. I was just looking at the episode titles for the season. I don't have anything that like your baggage, emergency shelter. We hope you enjoyed your time. Emergency shelter certainly sounds like maybe the cement chair door situation underneath what could. Well, it's underneath the salty whale. We know that. Yeah. So it's not underneath the bogeyman house. But I was going to ask, do you think there's any bit of truth to the story among the teens about like this bogeyman guy couldn't even be killed? They had to like put him into some kind of cement prison slash grave. Some real Michael Myers shit right there. Bogeyman, we await your arrival. All right. So what to expect on your trip, episode five. We've already talked about sort of this like Tom not in control thing. Evan saying one of these days I'm going to leave and I'm never ever coming back. And that, of course, is Tom's number one fear, which is that Evan leaves and dies. Never ever comes back, not just leaves, but like his life is over, right? When I mean, as we're kind of teased here with everything that happened to his wife or suggested did, like maybe there's things that are worse than death involved too. Maybe maybe death is just one of the outcomes potentially. Never ever coming back like mentally. Yeah. Abrupt subject change. Inspiration. So something that I posited to you, mirror minutes before we started recording is like, should we check in on some other classic drug trip episodes of television? I had some time to prepare for this. You had mirror minutes. What did you come up with that you wanted to talk about? I mean, as I made the list, I was like, I love all of these episodes. I know it's a great trope. It's a great one. The first one that came to mind for me was Six Feet Under, where Ruth takes LSD. And specifically, it's another like tightly wound. You never expect this person to let their guard down, matriarch in that story. Yeah. Absolutely tripping balls. Wonderful. Bojack Horseman might be the saddest trip episode that I've ever seen. Mad Men, I mean, Roger Sterling tripping out again, heavily heavy mirror involvement going on there in a way that I appreciate. But maybe the singular one from my experience is there's a whole episode of Cowboy Bebop in which the entire cast eats mushrooms, including I and the Corgi, and are just off on their respective journeys over the course of the episode. Unbelievable TV. On the animated front, the Cactus Juice episode of Avatar, The Last Airbender, incredibly good. It'll quench you. Nothing's quenched here. So the Rogers LSD trip on Mad Men is a really good shot. That season five episode six, Far Away Places. But season six episode eight of Mad Men is the crash when they all take speed in the office. And I rewatched it and I actually think of all sort of the drug trip episodes that I checked in on this morning briefly. That one seemed to me to be the closest Don Draper, like Matthew Reese's acting and Don Draper's acting is like very similar. Yeah. The auditory hallucinations, the like sounds of like laughter and gibbering and like stuff like that is there. It's a great episode. Kenny Krossgrove, like tap dancing on a broken foot, like, you know, what could be better? But like, yeah, the amphetamine episode of Mad Men is a real one. There's a very famous and really for a good reason episode of Roseanne, where Roseanne and Dan and Jackie all smoke weed and they like lock themselves in the bathroom and they're just like, it's very, very funny. Freaks and Geeks, of course, has a great Lindsay Gets High episode. Would you count the Watchmen Nostalgia episode? I don't know if I would, but I was thinking about it in terms of that sort of like surreal losing time, jumping through time. It's a supernatural drug, but like, yeah, I was gonna say it's already kind of that sort of show. Yeah. Again, with that like very subjective, very loopy orientation. Like it feels more of a piece with just the rest of Watchmen, to be honest with you. That's true. Spaced, one of my favorite shows of all time. I've actually never seen Spaced. Oh, you'd really like it. I mean, I'm very familiar with it's reputation. But like they're watching Star Wars, they're stoned out of their mind. And then Simon Pegg's character is like crying and they're like, what, what? And he's like, I just remembered I've got Jaffa cakes in my pocket. Incredible stone moment. But the thing that I was thinking about the most, and this is because of it's like the overlap of this show and its DNA with Parks and Recreation, is the flu episode of Parks and Rec. When Leslie is like trying to go about her day with terrible flu, including one of these like sort of town meeting, you know, sort of moments. So I was thinking about Leslie Dope a lot in this episode. Also, like the movie front, like thinking about like something like Mandy, you know, like a horror movie that is very like drug focused. I think often about Mandy. Or like the unbearable weight of Massive Town, like the whole Nick Cage oover. Why not? You know, it's all it's all whether he's literally or just kind of metaphorically taking drugs is always happening at basically every point in time. It's true. Well, did you have a favorite? My favorite sort of not just the cutting in and out of time, which I thought was so good. Yes. But the way that the lights like went down and came up on various sequences to sort of take you in and out of time, I thought was so artistically like really interesting. What did you what did you like? It's the kind of thing to where other when other shows attempt to do these sorts of time jumps, it can feel clunky in the edit. Yeah. And it really does take like a very particular kind of touch to make it feel organic, to make it feel germane to the story, to make it feel like, again, that you are in for an artistic process and not just like, Hey, we're trying to do David Lynch or whatever. It's like, this did feel so cohesive in a way that I think it's just like cinematically very impressive. Yeah. All of the buttons into, I don't know if you can button into a scene, but all of the all of the lines into the scene, like stop yelling him. Yeah, the unbuttoning. Stop yelling at me, Tom, or like just give me a name or like, you know, whatever the case may be. I thought that was really, really good. Chris Fleming is here. Chris Fleming, are you a Chris Fleming fan? I wasn't too familiar before this episode, but it's gone a little down the rabbit hole. He's so fun here as Todd O'Connor, Shaman slash Drug dealer. I loved that reveal when, when Patrice was like, Todd O'Connor, he's like, Hey, Patty, Chris Fleming is really funny. I think he's a great comedian. I don't think I've ever seen him act before and not that this was like, check off or anything like that, but I thought he was like really good and it reminded me a lot again of Parks and Rec when you would like bring in people that I knew for like comedy to do these like fun quirky characters. I really hope you see Todd again, you know, and his lizard. Is that a lizard? There's an iguana. Yeah. She has one girl lost. She has one girl lost. She's getting 50. I thought it was so funny. I thought it was really good. Here's the thing. He is very funny and like in a vacuum, I really liked those scenes. I would say of all the actors and characters we've seen so far, he felt the least of Windows Bay to me. There was something about it that was like, and it's drawn and structured to be like, this is a distinct hallucinogenic experience throughout this episode. But something about his energy was just like a little different, not in an unwelcome way, but distinct from the other towns people, maybe deliberately. Follow up question. Have you met anyone who calls himself a shaman? Not enough. Yeah. Other than you. I never once referred to myself as a shaman, nor would I. If you're not a shaman on this podcast, literally what are you doing? You and I lived in Northern, in the Bay Area. Heck capital of the world where a bunch of white dudes walk around calling themselves shaman and in order to serve you, ayahuasca. Like I've met so many white guys named Todd who are like, I'm a shaman. Come have an ayahuasca ceremony in my rec room. Like it's a peril of the North Bay, I should say. I have not partaken, but I mean, speaking to our issues of control. I'm not doing ayahuasca. No, no, no, but I would love to be somebody's spirit guide or just, you know, a hand to hold on their journey. Would you do a better job than Patricia? I would hope. I would hope and pray. Just don't open the door. I mean, they're just a bandit, Todd, so quickly at every opportunity. But Patricia at least had the excuse of like, she's like, wanted for questioning, you know what I mean? Like she cannot say no to that, but like leaving him with Dale, presumably not telling Dale what's going on. Dale has no idea. And he's very worried for understandable reasons. When he screams, it's really good. Why can't Tom just go home? He's sick today. You know, is that right? Right. Out of the realm of possibility? I don't know why they put him in the car with Rosemary, but again, I would not put him in a car with Rosemary. Oh, I don't think anyone put him in the car with Rosemary. Really? Because it takes, if I remember correctly, it takes place after, not to step on our future segments, but my favorite bit of physical comedy from Matthew Reese, which is the slow way he slinks across the wall and then bolts out the front door. But Patricia's still tethered to him. Are they literally tethered at that point in time? Yeah, she's jerked out. But maybe he's separated. I don't know. No, I think he jerks her out and she's like, we're too busy, put him in a car with Rosemary and take him home. But that's not what I would do with Tom if I were charged. I assumed he popped up in the middle of the road and Rosemary's like, okay, here, here, let me take you home. I also want to shout out Patricia before they go over to Todd O'Connor's Shaman Den. And can I just say that his, I forget what he called it, the like... The Peace Center. The Peace Center. Again. It's fucking perfect. That's what every rec room that a white guy named Todd is like, come to ayahuasca at my house, that's what it looks like. A single lava lamp. One magic guy. And a mattress with some loose blankets and an iguana. When Tom blows the phone call to him and they have Patricia do it and she essentially does the Han Solo like, we're all fine here. How are you? We're in conversation anyway. Yeah. Really funny. Really good. Anything else you want to shout out before we get to our categories? Again, I really like this episode. I think it just has the unfortunate placement of coming after four. And so I love a trip episode as we discussed in general. I love what this means for Tom and kind of like the weird, creepy, dark places we explore as a result of it. And it's, I mean, it's certainly setting up a lot of pretty dark roads we can go down over the rest of the season. I thought the fight with Evan was really good. Like that's a real fight that they're having inside of this episode. He's being like a real dick. Evan. Evan, this is an age where you just have the hardest time seeing outside yourself in general. But he knows that like, he knows enough to say like, Hey, didn't your friend just die? But also as being like a real asshole to his dad specifically. That's the only line delivery from this actor that I'm like, I would have had him say it slightly more sympathetically because him being like a real shit and being like, is this how the phones work? Perfect and really funny. Very funny. But like, wasn't he your friend? Like said with like a little bit of a grin was very weird. That being said, you're trying to impress an off island girl. Yeah. And I have some theories about these off island girls, by the way, but you're trying to impress an off island girl and your dad comes up and does this. Maybe I spoke too soon with a physical comedy. All the way around the outside of the car. Yeah. I would, I would say fuck you to my dad if, if I were like stewing in that mortification. If you knew he was grieving, if you knew his, his, maybe his only friend just died. Yes. Okay. If I'm a teenager and I'm embarrassed. Yes. That's fair. There's nothing stronger than burning shame. A team scorned. Yeah, that is true. All right. Well, let's go to our categories, which will allow us to talk even a little bit more about these episodes before we head out of here. Best bit of lore, got a lot of lore. Again, these are like incredibly short, funny, dense episodes while, and we're getting lower downloads as we go. What did we learn that you thought was most interesting? I think it's got to be Sarah Westcott Warren's creepy diary and I mean, Jare. The Centino 2 play. Just plugging it right back in. Torn page and all incredible work. But you and I have been talking about, are we going to get a full-on flashback episode with how much like the founders have been mentioned, maybe even more than the bookie man. It seems like we're going to get some glimpse of that life in that past eventually. I think we saw, so the opening of episode five. Yes. Is a grubby man and what looks to me like period clothing in the woods, scrabbling for, that's not Toby Huss. No. Like scrabbling for some mushrooms. In the snow. In the snow. Don't eat the spooky mushrooms. Or if you want Lasik for your third eye, eat the spooky mushrooms. I don't know. It doesn't seem worth it. I wouldn't do it, but I would be interested in someone else doing it. My third eye is already wide open. I'm good on the mushroom front. You know it's not. Going back through the footage, I think that's Hamish Linklater who is in this season and based on portraiture, I believe is playing the founder, Richard Warren. So like the next episode is called Our History. I would not be surprised if it takes us into a flashback episode. Certainly seems like it. We already have, you know, the weird cylinder around his neck. What do you think is in there? I do know it's heartbeats in the cylinder my husband wears around his neck. And then when she's like, but he's here, so JK, LOL, I'm going to bed. Really funny. Heartbeats in the cylinder. Are they going to dig him up? Well, that's that's implication from Wick. That's what Wick wants to do for sure. Let's just dig up this grave. Let's get in that cylinder. Let's see what's going on. The idea of the true site with the mushrooms. I also want to shout out in the spell book once it's true faces revealed. The seahag is in there. No, so like I'm glad we broke the spell by burning the book, but also was there good information in that book that we could have used before? You want to use it for good? I mean, I'll, it'll be fine. I'm very responsible. Not at all emotionally vulnerable to manipulation. I'll be fine. The last segment of this podcast is you outlining what you like and don't like about yourself. That's one line for like, 10 lines for don't like, and don't worry about it. And then the boogeyman intel. Anything else you want to say on the lore front? I think that's the biggest stuff for me is mostly what's going on with the diary and what it's positioning for us as far as like grave robbing goes. Favorite city employee. How is it not Patricia literally every week? Yeah, but if it's not Patricia, I think if it's not Patricia, it has to be Rosemary. Tell me why it's Rosemary this week for you. She wants to be supportive, but she has a few qualms. She's a scratcher lady. Like nothing could be more true than Rosemary loves a scratcher. I love that like Tom caused horrible damage inside the gas station. He's banned for life. She said something about driving the car again. So the way in which the car is like at an angle and the doors wide open and something like that seems like it was Tom based, but she's still going to get her scratcher time in like not to be deterred. The money's not going to win itself. Exactly. I'm going to give it to Dale. Shout out Dale for the DJing. And then I mean spoiler alert for my like favorite spooker, Haunter Scare, Fright. Dale with the blacked out eyes and the mismatched audio. And I think that Jeff Hiller has an incredible face. I think he did something like super weird with his tongue to make him look like especially horrified. It wasn't even mismatched audio. It was like he was doing a weird tongue thing, but also just like not speaking at all. Haunting. Horrifying. Horrifying. So I'm giving it to Dale between the DJing and that. Those two characters, I think just in terms of temperament and personality, they've had very limited screen time over the course this season. When you think about who would be going along for the ride as Patricia is like, get me these dead crows. And also here's 900 songs with which to DJ this party. It's like Dale is just like go along to get along enough to want to partake in it. And Rosemary is just kind of like gruff and mildly annoyed enough that she would do it anyway. But also she's like, she knows the seahag lore. Like Rosemary knows a lot is like Lock Tom in that room. It's true. You know, she knows a lot. She's seen a lot. She cannot, you cannot phase her. No. She's just seen too much. So if you put a headdress on with some antlers. The headpiece reveal is so good. Fucking wonderful. It's so good. When you rewatch and she's like, I'd consider headpiece is like what she says to refer to the TR and it's just a perfect word choice because like I was like, yeah, get that dumb fucking TR off your head. Well, especially when Chris and the Mean Girls were like mocking her about like, what does she have on her head? It's a TR. Turns out it's not. Well, it is of a kind. Just a little more antler than you might expect. It's a little more yellow jacket antler queen stuff. Okay. Favorite obvious joke. It's the rhythm of the night. I mean, the way it comes back in on that. It comes back for the credits. Like it is an incredible choice. And honestly, like does have a certain witchy power to it. It's a bop. It's an absolute bop. I don't know what like Corona and all of them were channeling when they wrote it and created it in the first place, but it has it has a certain power. It has a certain like, you think there were bone fragments in their mortar and pestle when they wrote that song? I think the entire wave of like, Juro house music that permeated the United States specifically in the nineties all feels mythical to me. I think also, yeah, it's like got that chanting quality the same way that earlier he plays let's dance David Bowie. Right. So like, you know, which is just like an invocation kind of a boy could have been a witch. I would support it. I think it was Patricia for me, Patricia circling her shoulders first in the drawing in the book straight to the shoulders. It's like, what is that a posture? I need to like, you know, work on my posture. Is that a posture comment? I don't know. And then she just circles like nine other things, but it's just like starting with the shoulders is really funny to me. I mean, we all have things we hate about ourselves. But specifically people who have been so locked in on their shoulders are all your people would be like, Oh my God, I hate my calves. I'm like, I mean, no offense. No, it's often because someone has said something to you once ever. It's probably Chris and like forever you're like, my earlobes are larger than other people's earlobes. Oh no. OK, favorite throwaway joke. This one's a real throwaway, but it made me laugh a lot. And it's when the janitor comes into city halls during Tom's trip and says, Oh, somebody's got a full belly. You got a lot of teeth today to the trash can. So funny. It doesn't apologize. Just like, it's like, oh, are you OK? I didn't know you were here. Yeah, really funny. Really, really good. This is less of like a throwaway joke and I guess more of like a delivery. But again, shout out Dale, shout out Jeff Hiller. When Patricia asked how many RSVPs are any hands or a piece of paper and she's like, there are zero you could just sit zero. And he just says very faintly, I didn't want to. I didn't want to. People, please are Dale doing his best, even in a dark moment. I have like 50 honorable mentions for this. I mean, it's ridiculous. I think the illustrations in the self-help book about the perfect party was all like the people having the time of their lives dressed in exquisite like cocktail attire. And then there's a giant pile of cocaine on the table. Well, you know, it's what it's what facilitates these things. The shoulders, of course, the speed with which Patricia shoves her fingers straight down Tom's throat when he wants to purge the mushrooms. Like no hesitation whatsoever. This is why you need a Patricia in your life. You need that person in your corner. Absolutely. What else do you have, Joe? Lucy Forz is the name of the author of the book. There's also four quarters, like a little illustration of the four quarters on the front of the of the book, when it's in self-help mode. Even just out with the old in with the you, I would love to see the white board of alternative self-help books that they came up with. In episode five, when they're when Tom Texan on the funeral and you're just hearing this guy tell this anecdote and afterwards someone says just to remind her it's not mandatory that you speak. It's not. Similarly, sort of off camera when Patricia is trying to get people to stay at the party and she's like, I'm sure the doctor has some fun like medical stories. And he's like, I'm off the clock. And then Ruth chimes in. She's like, I have one. It started in the foot. I also wrote this down. Ruth, again, is just batting a thousand every time she pops up. Every time she's supposed to be like, yeah, I'm going home at three. I'm sorry. Rosemary Dale, like an iconic. The only other one I had was when Patricia is crying in the kitchen and someone busts in and she turns it into a fake yawn to try to hide her crying. That's some like next level Baba duking, I think. Is it? Yeah, to cover your cry with a yawn. What should you cover it with? What's like, what's the appropriate thing? Well, she's right at the fridge. I would just like, the door of the fridge open and like Mrs. Doubtfire my way through it. You know what I mean? I'm just imagining her with the full Antler regalia attempting to do the cry on. And this woman's like, what the hell is happening in here? Would you have wanted to get like a full sort of flash through the. I mean, like thinking about. It would have been funny. I guess the whole town is wired for video surveillance. Interesting, but like the reveal of Patricia sitting at that CCTV. Yeah, yeah. Sitting at the table reading the grimoire until like four in the morning or whatever. But like to see the grimoire in her hands or to see the antlers, you know, like to to rewatch the episode, we should say just in case people are like, you missed it or we didn't, we didn't. During the dance in the bar, there's like in the mirror and then one shot of everyone standing there with their mouth up. But I just wanted to say it so people were like, did you miss this? We did not miss that. That is what is it that's so fundamentally creepy about people with their open mouth, you know, it just it's scary in a way. I can't articulate. I don't really know why it's like to me it goes back to like invasion of the body snatchers. That's like a body snatcher. Yeah. Like the point in the very the faculty to all the tentacly things coming out. How to say you're with us always, always. All right. Favorite horror movie reference, Easter egg. For this, it's sort of the subversion of our expectations around Reverend Bryce, where when he's introduced into the story, specifically as Tom's friend, it's like, I think one of two things is going to happen. Either he will be the one to give Wic and Tom and their crew the download on like either severely or maniacally, right? What is happening on the island? Here's the history. Here's what I have discovered or he will perform at least one exorcism. Right. But no, he gets the chance to do none of those things. Add a commission, another terrifying visual of him having hung himself or just be hung on the back of the door. Oh, yeah. I mean, it just the idea that it makes you wonder, like, what could this man have possibly seen that would lead him to this end? Maybe even enough to want to take some spooky mushrooms yourself just to find out. Yeah. What do you see down that well? I don't want to know what he saw down the well. I think it's going to come back. For me, I have nothing better than our listeners' suggestion of Patricia's wardrobe. I think the carry Shelley DeVall sort of like invocation there. All right. Best haunt, scare, spook or fright. I already said it was Dale with his blacked out eyes and unsinked voice or not synced at all. What do you have? For me, it is whatever is happening with Lauren and that very brief visual we get of her after she's been brought in and seen by the doctor. Maybe still with child. Maybe Evan's already been born, but it's like her sitting on the bed. Mute and like vacant and kind of possessed at the same time. Is just like her head. It just like a slight horror movie angle. I was shocked to see that this actress, Meredith Casey, I think is also a comedian, does not have an extensive acting history because she has like popped up again in like a hallucinogenic dead wife sort of way mostly to date. But like this is a physical performance, even in that split second, that I think is just the creepiest image that the show has shown us so far. Very impressive, very scary. I'm terrified of everything that it portends. We did ask for a listener's suggestion for categories. And though I did not officially like add any, our listener faith suggested creepiest blink and you'll miss it moment. That's probably the reflections, I would think. I was thinking of reflections, but also in episode four, when Patricia first brings the book home, she puts it on her bedside table and she puts her mug of tea on top of it. Yeah. And then she goes to like do something and when she and it's just like all one shot and when she comes back to frame, the mug of tea is no longer on top of the book in a sort of like read me kind of way. The book is like get this mug of tea off of me. I'm not a coaster. Read me. I thought that was a really cool moment. I also like her reading the book at the picnic table at all the bikes. The fights breaking out. New England's best kept secret a moment where you thought, huh, would it actually be nice to live here? OK, so the circumstances were not ideal. Yeah. But the bonfire. That could have been really nice. That could have been a really nice time. I really agree. Cocktails at Patricia's. Yeah. A nice little dance and hang. And then off to the beach for a bonfire. That's that's a wonderful night. I have a marketing note for Patricia. OK. If you are not, no fault of your own, perhaps the most popular person on the island. Don't put it on the invite. Don't say cocktails with Patricia. Yeah. Just say some tell cocktails like, you know, come have some drinks on us. The town. Sure. Free drinks. Sure, it's animal blood, but like I wouldn't say cocktails with Patricia. Yeah. When Chris is like, you mean the municipal event. Well, here's the thing. Who are you fooling? Like they know that she works at City Hall. They know that she would be involved. Drinks with Dales. Is is I mean, with all due respect to Dales, Dale any more popular than Patricia's? Yeah, maybe so. I definitely think it. The Reese piece, something about Matthew Reese that you want to shout out here. Physical comedy. Yeah. Episode five is ridiculous. A ridiculous showcase for Matthew Reese. Trying to make himself vomit when he can't. And he's just like, it's really funny. Really incredible. I mean, he's basically like Charlie Chaplin in this episode. Like the physical comedy beats like the the wide eyed like wonder and terror at everything happening around him. The absolutely possessed way that he lunges for his loafer in the convenience store as Amber is the color of your energy place, which comes back at the closing credits. I love that. Amber is the color of your energy. Yeah. Yeah. The way he looks into the car, say goodnight to Little Miss is really funny. His clapping during the meeting with the townspeople. It was so strange. I was like trying to analyze like, why does this look so strange? He's just incredible. He's a master. The root of the matter. What is Stephen Root doing this episode that you want to? I mean, we can share a little history. It kept me out too late. I mean, they had something going on. And maybe what's old is new again. You know, I think they could have, I especially if Jerry is going to be part of the gang and helping them investigate some spooky artifacts. Honestly, I love seeing a version of Wick that is still kooky and driven and weird. Yeah. But him getting to be like spirit detective, Wick. Different side of him that I really appreciated. I will say Wick and Jer shot to the top of my ship. Like if Patricia and Tom are on the shipping list for me, it's like Wick and Jer number one. Who else is on the list? Like Evan and the off island girl who might be also the Seahag. I don't know. Like I don't know who are these off island girls. Who are they? They're just off island girls. They could be, but like Joe, not every girl is a hag. I mean, something to aspire to. So the shipping list, I mean, yeah, there's Tom and Patricia. We addressed that that I think, I think a lot of people probably will be invested in that one. Tom's face and the Seahag potentially returning. Who's to say what those kids could get up to? Tom and his dead ghost wife. I mean, anything is possible on this island. She could, she could return in many terrifying forms. Yeah. And we're rooting for them. We are. We want those two crazy kids to work it out. Right. Evan, here's what I'll say about Evan. Yeah. And you were right to call out that like wasn't here a friend. The press about and what's the system delivery was like really funny about the phone. Incredibly funny. But when when Tom says, I see you calculating how much you can get away with, which this actor had to convey with just a look and he really did. He does. He really, really nailed it. I just think he's fantastic. I think he's so good. His physical comedic performance has been great all season. He also did the exact thing that I remember doing when I was a kid and went into my dad's office, which is I open every drawer. You were right. Rightful through. And we found in one of my dad's drawers, like a couple of candy bars. And we're like, he has a candy drawer in here. Oh, you say we. It's you and your brother. I mean, my brother, both going through it simultaneously. That's the kind of bit of family lore you just never let down. I went through everything in my parents closet like constantly. How could you not? Absolutely. You just got to see what's going on in there. But we're omitting what is the clear Evan contribution of these episodes. While I'm walking away, can I just yell, fuck you, pig for the girls? Because here, Joe, on this podcast, we always say, fuck you, pig for the girls. We really do. We do. But you're being like, no, the fuck you cannot. Kevin Carroll is really good on this show. All right, theory. My only theory is these off island girls. I'm looking at scans. Really? I mean, a single girl shows up in the story and it must be her fault. Who are they? I must think it's their fault, but who are they? It's true. They don't seem to have parents. They don't have any reason that they explain for being there. I mean, well, they're here for the holiday. Granted that it's only been two days. Like when I thought it was like a week, you know what I mean? When I thought it was like the first than the fourth or something like that. I'm like, how long are these girls here on this island? But if it's just been a couple of days, like, OK. I think it's only been a couple of days and we live in a world now where this is the new Martha's Vineyard. People are just showing up. If it was just creating in the fireworks. Yes. If it was just old Widows Bay. Yeah. Off island girls are not showing up, but they're showing up here for the fireworks. And those fireworks are going to happen. And they did. And they did. All right. Anything else you want to say about Widows Bay? Just one more thing, Joe. The sacred geometry of outlining your hand on a piece of paper. A great recurring gag in episode five. And specifically, I would say how seriously Patricia ponders the drawing in the first place really made it for me. Well, also, just the cut to the fact that Tom was doing the same thing. Right. Um, also, it made me think of you because like very recently, you invoked hand turkeys. Would you like to explain why? Would you like to explain why I would. I was wearing, you know, a warm colored orange shirt on this couch was surrounded by these very tasteful pillows that are here at Spotify Studios. And I was looking a little like a hand turkey with my plumage. So, you know, it just it's been in the ether over here. Sometimes you're the Boba Duke, sometimes you're the hand turkey, you know? These are the realities. Thank you to Mary, Chief and Carpenter for supporting this episode. All right. Well, that is it for episodes four and five of Widows Bay. We'll be back for euphoria. We'll be back with Friday Night Lights. And more Widows Bay. Thank you to Devon Aldo, Jacob Cornett, to everyone at Sycamore Studios, to Kai Grady from afar. He's in Texas and thank you to the many Blackbirds who died to make this episode possible. And thank you to the witches. And thank you to you, Rob Mohoney. Thank you, Joe. In that order. Bye.