How Do I Tell My Family That My Daughter Isn’t Mine?

Two and a half years ago my wife had an affair and my awesome daughter is a result of that. I found out that there was an affair made way through pregnancy and then pretty soon after that deduced that that's a very low possibility that she was going to be biologically mine. Wow. What's going on? What's going on? This is John with Dr. John DeLone who's show. Man I had one of those new tonics from Chris Williams since energy drink line and I'm a little bit hopped up. Hope y'all are doing well today. Talking about your marriages, your relationships, your mental emotional, but everything going on in your life. Man, I feel like a lot. Kelly, 2.0. I feel like a lot. You are a lot, I guess. I guess you're so kind. That's the upgraded Kelly, 2.0, the one that's kind and she doesn't say mean things. She just says like, you're a lot, I guess. I think them, but I don't say them. See exactly. That's why you're 2.0. Actually, you're probably Kelly, 3.0. That's like two, that's two upgrades. Yeah. She says everything. All right, it's got to little rock, our Kansas and talk to David. What up, David? Hey, what's up, Dr. Young? I'm good. I'm good. You two, man, how are we doing? I'm doing pretty good. It's an honor. It's honor to talk to you, man. What's up? Well, I'll keep it pretty straight to the point here for you. About two and a half years ago, my wife had an affair and my awesome daughter is a result of that. I've let my family basically believe that she is biologically mine and I told my closest friends and I don't know how to tell my family or when is the right time. That's a doozy, man. Yeah. So how long have you been married? We are coming into our 10th year. 10th year. Okay, tell me about your marriage leading up to the affair, then how you found out about everything and then how you all have decided to rebuild this thing since. Leading up to it was basically working a lot and just missing a lot of things that probably should have seen. And then I found out about Midway through the pregnancy that she wasn't going to be mine. And basically, we're kind of taking to court and forced into paternity test and then they gave away the rights. She was quite a bit older and didn't really want anything to do with it or as I'd like to say, take a note out of your playbook that he's just very sick and not going to be there. And so I'm going to be her father forever and we've basically been rebuilding our marriage to that just months at a time and now we're pregnant again with our second. So I'm super excited. He's due any minute. Man. What a wild trip. Okay, take me to take me to the moment you're sitting at your kitchen table and you find out this baby you're excited. Did you know about the affair before you found out, hey, there's an affair in B. This isn't my biological child. No, I found out that there was an affair Midway through pregnancy and then pretty soon after that deduced that very low possibility that she was going to be biologically mine. Wow. And I was at a McDonald's actually. At a McDonald's, all right, take me there. Like, give me the, what's going on inside your chest, man? Well, I mean, nothing. It was heavy in the moment. He'd lost his second phone and had called me because I knew him as an individual as well. And he'd called me trying to speak to her to, you know, like not call the phone type of thing. And then from there, her and I had discussions and talked through everything and I'd pretty much relinquished that he was out of the picture and it wasn't going to be an issue, but then his wife decided to also make it an issue and kind of take us to court for paternity and everything. I think mostly the logic they used with that, if I ever left her, she would come after him for child support or whatever and he didn't want that. And so that's why they took us to court. But like I said, my biggest thing is just how do I tell my family about it? My friends are supportive. I told my dad and he's supportive, but I don't know about my in-laws or my mom. I don't know how to sit them down and tell them with holidays coming up. I don't know if I just dumped all them all at once or taken a side individually. So, me and this is, it's, it's a lot and here's where it's a lot. One of the biggest challenges after dealing with a major issue, right? Infidelity, bankruptcy. I would say anything that is like your marriage was no longer, right? And now you're going to rebuild a new one is in defense or in support or as a part of the rebuilding process. Also a key part of that to do that well is to not cash in your own integrity in the process. Here's what I mean by that. In an effort to choose to stay with your wife and it sounds like her, like there was never even a moment where you thought I'm going to leave her for cheating on me. Is that right? That's right. Okay. So, I'm a guy who's going to stick by her and we're going to figure this thing out. If she'll have me, I'll have her back and we're going to rebuild our marriage. And then you find out she's pregnant with somebody else's kid. Then you have to go to court not because this man and his, and or his wife want to be in the life of this child, but they want to get it written down that they never have to be in the life of this child. Which is Matt. I can't even have a header on that, but that's a whole other call. And so in this process, you, and this is hard to hear, okay? So I'm saying this with love and care, right? You became a guy who doesn't tell his family the truth. Yeah. And so it's, it's her issue, her, her breach of trust, this, and I'm saying this consequence, who's also your daughter, right? So it's not like, I don't want to dehumanize your daughter, but the consequence of her actions, which is creating human life with somebody else, that's, that's hers. And then she's going to have to own what does rebuilding trust look like? But then you became a guy who cast in his integrity in order to keep the peace, keep things quiet and all that kind of, does that make sense? And so really the conversation here is twofold. One, you going first and saying, I haven't been honest with everybody. And we have a story we want to tell. And it's just something we could do together. Here's why I think that's important. And again, every family is different. And I'm going to trust you that you know your family dynamics. So just, you have a road map. What was it like telling your dad? How did that conversation go? It was, it was pretty quiet. Part of it I thought it'd be. But he took it really well. He's very grounded individual. And I feel like I knew it would go well. And basically just reassured me that nothing would ever change. And he loved us all the same no matter what. So does he, did he and your mom ever experience infidelity? Not that he's ever talked to me about. Okay. That's an incredibly measured response. Good on him. I would have five of them if he was here. Because here's what that sounds like to me. It sounds like a dad who exhales and says, this is my grown man's son's life. And even if I would do this differently and everything in my body is telling me to tell him to run, this is his life and I'm going to be right here with him. That's a, that's a, that's a, that's a, it's a out of, out of the norm response in a positive way. I let me say this way. I hope to stand by my son when he chooses to make courageous decisions. And I hope to stay by him in that way. That's, that's amazing. And so, how would the conversation go with your mom? That's, that's my worry. She, I don't feel like she is as emotionally grounded as my father is. And yeah, I don't really know. She dealt with prone trauma through work. She's, works as a sexual assault examiner. And so she's not, I think she deals with trauma from that and likes to project that onto other people sometimes, but that's my own, you know, diagnosing. I don't know. I don't know if I need to wait till she's in a good head space or just, you know, there's no time like the present type of thing. I'm not sure what's best. Yeah. So here's, here's my rules of thumb. Okay. Hmm. Number one, um, and I say this with all love, she doesn't get a vote on your actions or what happens next. Number two, you cannot control her choice as to how she responds. Number three, give her a heads up. This is coming. Like, hey, mom, when we get together for Thanksgiving, um, me and my wife, we need to take you out for breakfast. Just ask, we need to have a big hard conversation. We're safe. We're not getting divorced. Um, but we need to, uh, right before we have our second child, we need to go have a big conversation just to put everything out on the table. What is it? What is it? What is it? But we need to set some time away. In that way, she's not just like hanging up the Christmas lights and being like, and you're like, oh, by the way, mom, like, right. So that way it doesn't, she knows it's comp. There's some big conversation and she can bring herself. Here's the next one that's big. Facts are your friends. And what I mean by that is say the thing right out of the gate. That doesn't need to be a big story. I was working too much and then one time that it is sitting down because she's going to think something's wrong with the baby number two. She's going to think you're like getting divorced. She's going to think the word, I've got cancer. She can think the worst. And so sitting down and saying, I need you to stay present with us. I need you just to listen to what I'm going to say. I love my wife to the end of the moon and back and we have repaired our marriage. But three years ago, there was an affair and my wife got pregnant by another man and I chose to adopt and keep that child. And so that child is my daughter, but she's not my biological daughter. And I just wanted you to know this. Period. Stop talking. You know what I'm saying? Yes, sir. And if your wife is sitting with you, great. If she says, I don't think I can, fine. That's great. And y'all to know whether her being there will add a whole bunch of complexity. If you want to have a direct mother, son conversation, you'll know those dynamics are better than anybody. I can think off top of my head. It would be best for me to have that conversation. If I was having to have this conversation with my parents, I would do it by myself. But if I was doing it with my brother and sister, I would do it with my wife with me. Okay. That's my other thing I need to tell my siblings too. Yeah. And it's just dynamics. It's clear to say, this is, she is my daughter. Absolutely. And even if there's a long wall, I don't know what to say, I'm heartbroken, she starts crying, whatever. Say, I've been through all this, mom. And this is new for you. And this is not going to change your relationship with my daughter, your granddaughter. And it's repeating those things over and over. Okay. I can do that. Yeah. And this is my personality. Every personality is different. I would say, go ahead and get it all out now. Ask your questions. And what you're projecting is, I'm not, there's not a thing I have it thought about here. There's not a, I'm not still waffling on whether I'm going to stay with her or not. I'm not confused. So I can handle your questions. How are you? I'm just stating. And then I chose to stay and rebuild. There's a powerful phrase that I learned from working with attorneys for so many years and it is this, there's power in the pause. We often as people like to fill those empty spaces with a bunch of words, a bunch of words, a bunch of words. And power in the pause, the person who speaks the least, owns the anchoring of a conversation. And so you projecting to your mom, she's allowed to be heartbroken, she's allowed to be really mad that this woman hurt her son. All that's right and good. She gets to do all that stuff. But you can't talk bad about my wife. You can tell dad all the bad stuff you want. You can't tell me, that's my wife. And my hope is when you see her, you'll hug her because she's been through hell too. Do you know what I'm saying? Yes. I do. That's excellent advice. I really, really appreciate it. No, you got it, man. Can I just tell you, leading this conversation with I messed up here? Automatically the person you're talking to when you lead with, here's where I messed up, people automatically drop their shoulders. Right. It's an invitation. They lean forward. Because people are naturally caring people. And when you say, hey, I screwed something up, people lean in. Man, you're an inspiring guy. Pretty impressive. And you did what I would call is the next right really, really, really hard thing. Once you decided to stay in the marriage, that meant, okay, I'm going to be a dad. And I'm going to raise this child who's followed by another man. I'm going to raise her like my own. And I'm going to be the best freaking girl dad that's ever existed. That's a level of integrity and character that is rare these days. And it's inspiring. Well done, my brother. Call anytime. Your wife can call anytime. And if your parents want to call, talk to them as well. We come back. A man asks, how to support his best friend through his endless marriage problems. Man, we've all been there. 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It helps me anchor in. And we all need anchors in this anchorless world we live in. If you want to anchor your day, check out Hallow. Right now when you sign up at Hallow.com slash Deloni, you get three months for free. Go check them out. It's Hallow, H-A-L-L-O-W dot com slash Deloni for three full months for free. All right, let's roll out Indianapolis, Indiana and talk to Matthew. What's up, Matthew? Holy Bloney, I'm talking to Dr. John Deloni. Shoot. Him and him's on the phone. Look at this. Dude, we got a hip hop star. What's up? How are we doing, man? I'm doing pretty good. I just wanted to say real quick, like every color, I feel like does your podcast has just been really instrumental in me growing my own marriage and just leveling the connection that I didn't think was possible with my own wife. And I just want to give a huge shout out to your crew too. I do production. So I know this is no easy feat. So Kelly, Kelly and all the people working behind the scenes to make it possible. It's very much appreciated. No, I appreciate that, dude. Yeah, Ben at the board at Nate Dogg on the YouTube screens and Alex call screen and like Kelly, you point out they're awesome. Kelly, 1.0, she's just along for the ride. It's fine. But no, I appreciate that, brother. What's up? So this one's, this one's got some layers to it. So I'm very curious where you think I might be in the wrong. Maybe where it might be in the right. So my best friend over the last three and a half years has been talking at least once a week if not more depending on the intensity of his marital troubles about his, you know, spiraling marriage. And there's always been a looming possibility of doors. They've been the paperwork has been filed and then pulled back. And then I'm just trying to figure out how can I continue to support him while maintaining my sanity of hearing the same sort of thing and not feeling like my device is getting through and or more importantly, how do I protect my God's son as best as I can from all of this dysfunction that's going around in his house? That's hard, man. I think the first thing out of the gate is recognizing your friend doesn't want your advice. Yeah. Your friend wants you to serve as a trash can. Yeah. And there's something powerful in a friendship where one person has the courage to say, hey, do you want me just to listen? Because you don't want my advice. And then there's a next step that's more powerful that is have I've heard when they start going and then she'll be like, hey, I've heard this. I've heard this part. What's your next move? Yeah. Right. And it's just stopping this stuff. And I'll tell you this, one of the most important shape shifter moments in my marriage happened about a year in to me being married. And I was on the road speaking at this event. I was traveling around with the musician and we were doing some stuff and the musician, his name was Eric Peters. He's a singer songwriter here in Nashville. He's been one of my friends for more than two decades. But I'm painting this picture just to show what he did for me and the courage it took. I'm a loud guy, especially when I'm on stage, just kind of chaotic energy, right? And 20 years ago, I was a train wreck, dude. Like my goal on stage was I wanted people to walk away and get in their car and go, what just happened? That was my goal, okay. And so he is an incredible poet. He's one of those guys. It's a real artist, not like me who pretends to be an artist. He's a real, that's how he thinks. He paints. He's just a, like he mose lawns thoughtfully, right? He's just that guy. And I'm about a foot taller than him. I was doing MMA. I'm a loud, brash, tattooed up idiot, right? And I would always have this bit when I was speaking about, oh, my wife's not here. She's in travel with me. So I'm going to tell you the story because she's not here. Right? That was always part of my like, stick. And then one day he said this. He said, how long you been married in a city here? And this is just us like in a van or something. He said, I think there's pretty much two kinds of, two kinds of guys. Guys that make jokes about their wives and guys that don't. You should be the kind that doesn't. And you got to understand like, I'm a big loud presence and this, he's short guy. This short, small, stage, statured artist had the courage to say. Be the kind of guy that doesn't talk about his wife at the water cooler unless it's something positive. And bro, that changed my life. If you listen to my show, people call and they're like, your wife isn't that perfect. She's not by far, but the stories they're going to tell about her are when she are going to be ones the celebrator. And so I tell you all that to tell you, somebody having the courage, a friend of mine, who's now become a two decade friend, to say, hey, stop talking about your wife like that. What's so powerful for me, it changed my whole marriage, changed my life trajectory. And so you can be that guy for your friend. Yeah. It feels like every conversation we have. And it's, I mean, the first year you listen, you comfort the second year you start pushing a little bit, and ask him for more clarifying questions. I think by the third year, I'm just like saying it is directly as possible, but it, I mean, like you're saying he doesn't want my advice. Like the more I keep sharing, he will headstrong push right through it. That's what I'm starting to look at for. Exactly what the answer is. Yeah. He's looking for a teammate against his wife and a real friend won't do that. Yeah. I'm not going to be one of those guys that's like, yeah, I'm not doing that. Solve the problem. Yeah. Or asking you a scary question, hey, when's the last time you did something nice for her? What? And I know, I know. When's the last time you got up before she got up and you made her favorite cup of coffee and brought her to her bed? Yeah. I think the access service, he tries his best to, but they just don't have any form of communication. That's kind of the struggle is, I don't know. My, this might be too much of a ratio, but I keep telling them like, dude, you could not have picked two more incompatible people. And of course you're struggling, like you've always been struggling. So you need to find peace in all of this struggle and talking to me about all these deep-seated frustration has just, it's just getting bigger and bigger because you just keep talking about the things that frustrate you and how all these things are unfair to you. And I'm like, dude, there's two sides to both of this. And I'm going to try to back you up as much as I can, but I'm also as a man of a degrity and not going to pretend like your wife doesn't have an equal share in the conversation as well. I have to give her the benefit of that. Of course there's two sides. Yeah. And I've told the story of my buddy Trevor on this, like when I was dating the woman who's now my wife, I was like, can you believe she said this? And he said, this isn't college. And he goes, yes. You're an ass. And I was like, what? Yeah. And so he's, he's, I was like, me? And he goes, yes, what are you talking? Are you kidding? And that again, that's one of those moments that was like, oh God, I'm somebody that didn't even know I was. Yeah. I got to be different, right? But here's the thing, he doesn't want that from you. Yeah. And so at some point you have to be a person of integrity and character, not to keep saying, like, hey, there's two sides, this, whatever, you have to say, I don't want to be a guy that goes home to my wife, frustrated and angry. Yeah. And that means I have to say, hey, I don't want to continually show up and hang out with you and you just don't trash all over me. And I think that's kind of the part that sucks the most though, Dr. John, like over these last three and a half years, he's gone from being a person that him and I share a lot of interest and share a lot of common ground. And, you know, we talk about endless different things and now it feels like literally the only thing we ever talk about is, is this failing marriage? Okay. So change the narrative. Change the narrative. Injured personality. Yeah. And that's something I should approach with them and be like, hey, man, like you've given up a lot of things that bring you joy just for the sake of fighting for this thing. And you're sacrificing so much for this marriage that has been going in circles for three and a half years. This is all, this is all can assume you. And you can have that conversation, but you hear me say directly, talking is not going to solve this. Yeah. Yeah. If that's the path you want to take, great invite him to go do the thing. Sure. Hey, we're going to watch the fights. You're coming. Well, you know my wife, stop, stop, stop. I don't want to hear that. Are you coming or are you coming or not? Yeah. And then you got to go watch the fights with them. Yeah. Hey, dude, we're all going fishing. We're all going bowling. We're all going knitting. I don't know what you guys do, but like, I'm going to go do this thing. I want you to come with me. Will you know my wife? Stop, stop, stop, stop, stop. Are you going to come or are you not going to come? You're a grown man. And so if you get in another conversation about you've given up so much of your life, it's just going to be that same loop. He's going to bowl those right through it. Well, I'm a victim here and I can't, he's making choices every minute of every day. Yeah. The thing you need to metabolize is he's not your best friend. Hmm. You have a fantasy of this friendship that doesn't exist in reality. Yeah. You know what I'm saying? Yeah, I've, I've, I've, I've been feeling it is more of a best friendship because of the years that we've Yeah, it's enclosed, but it's okay. Take, take friendship out of it. Let's look at business. I had this business that was making a bunch of money one time. And then now, three years later, this business isn't making any money, but I'm continuing to dump money into it. It's not a business anymore. It's just a hobby. You're literally paying to lose, to do this thing. Yeah. It's called sunk cost fallacy. I've already put all this time into it. I've already put all this investment into it. I just got to keep doing it. Man, it's not what it was. Yeah. There's definitely like a guilt too of like, man, my friends are going through this really hard thing. I'd feel like such an out. If I just bailed on them. I know, but he's already bailed. He doesn't want you. That's the thing. Yeah. He doesn't want your supporter advice. Yeah. Because I have people close friends of mine. People I don't know that will fly in and stay at my house. And I need you to walk with me as I do this next hard thing. Yeah. As I go to rehab. As I go through this divorce. As I rebuild my marriage from the floor up. Awesome. I'll walk with you all day long. Yeah. But if you just want to call and just be like, and then, and then, and then, and then this happened to me and this happened to me, I'm probably not the guy for you. Call a therapist. So that you can pay them to do that. Yeah. Yeah. Right. So what do you think my best course of action is like when he tries talking about this stuff, just be like, hey, that sounds like stuff that we've, I've heard you say before. Like if anything changes, let me know. Or just can't they've been harder boundaries where we go. Hey man, I'd love to have relationship with you. But, you know, there has to be a huge backing off of the discussion about your marriage. That may work in your, in your friendship dynamic. You know him better than me. Sure. If one of my guy friends called me and said, hey, I really want to have a relationship with you, but I don't want to, I would be like, alright, I'm out. Right. Yeah. I, it would be better in the real moment, right? Like Ben and I went to see a comedy show together the other night. If during the show, right before the show, I was like, man, and then my wife and Ben was like, hey, listen buddy, I really want to have a relationship with you. But I would be like, alright, I'm done talking to you. That would just be, that's me. But if he said, ah, I don't want to hear that. I don't want to hear that. I like your wife. Or I don't want to hear that like, let's go to the comedy show and let's just have a good time and laugh. That would be him setting up boundaries, providing a shared experience that we need together, and not just endlessly looping in conversation that doesn't go anywhere. Yeah. Or let me put it this way. There's not a thing probably you haven't said yet that's going to go, oh, you're right. I haven't considered that. Yeah, that's 100% true. And that's all I've said. It's a humbling place. And the thing I got possibly to say, every different way to Sunday. So, hey, stop having imaginary conversations where you finally say the thing and he goes, oh, God, you're right. Yeah. That's you trying to prop up yourself. Sure. Number two, it's humbling. I do this for a living. It's humbling when you tell somebody, here I can see the next right path for you and then they go, yeah, I don't want to walk that. I just want to sit here in the dog due to it's humbling. Yeah. Right? It bums me out. I see it and they're like, no, I don't want to do that. I take that personally, right? And so, yeah. It's definitely a self reflection thing. I'm starting to realize now that we're talking because it's a bummer. It's like for so long. I feel like for so long, I'm like, well, eventually, you'll see that this function is way worse off and you can't find comfort in this function and that's obviously not the case. It's so foot-been-comfortable in the dysfunction. And it's humbling and sad. It's heartbreaking to realize I extended my hand to a friend who was sitting in a pit to pull him out and he didn't want my hand. He wants to actually stay there. It's heartbreaking. We find the limits of what we can actually do to help. It helps takes two people. One person reaching down and the other person to grab your hand and be pulled out. And he doesn't sound like he wants that right now. And so, you recognizing, I've done what I can, I'm not going to continue to ruin my own body, my own integrity, my own marriage by constantly having imagined any conversations. Every time his name comes up on the phone, I'm going to resent him that he's even calling me. Choose guilt over resentment. Choose the guilt of sitting down next time you all are out and he starts going and be like, hey, hey, I've already heard all these stories. I want to have a night where you're, I just don't listen to you talk about your wife again. I've heard all these stories. Let's just go watch the fights. Let's just go watch the comedy. Let's just go fish. Let's go do the thing. Are you kidding me, man? Yeah. I mean, no, I'm not kidding. I just don't hear about anymore. Like when you're ready to make the next step, I'll be right here with you brother. And probably he'll quit calling you. And you'll have to deal with that sad. But just continuing in this same spin me right, round record, right round. You're just going around and around and around. It's just, you got to slap it up, flip it and reverse it and just go somewhere else. I'm taking another direction with it. But I think the ultimate thing underneath everything is your friendships, not what you are fantasizing that it is. And dealing with that, should free you to make the next hard call, which is, bro, I'm tired of talking bad about your wife. And you not do anything about it. I, it just is what it is. But I'm telling you, I'm a product of men like Eric, men like Trevor, men like Todd, men like John calling me out Kevin, Michael calling me out personally and saying, Hey, you're not acting as though I hear you say you want to be. And those men have changed my life. And so you can be that kind of catalyst for him. Thanks for calling my brother. I'm really grateful, man. 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Montana Knife Company guarantees that my grandkids are going to fight over these knives someday. If your knife ever needs sharpening, which it will, if you use it, just send it back and they will sharpen it and send it back to you for free. Give the outdoorsman and the cook in your life a knife they will love and actually use all of the time. Go to montanennifecompany.com to see what's available right now. They always sell out. So go check them out as soon as you can. You won't be disappointed. Visit montanennifecompany.com. All right. It's got a Pittsburgh and talk to Maria. What's up, Maria? Hello. How are you? I'm okay. How are you? I am. I'm doing a little bit better than okay. I'm glad that you called. What's up? Um, so my husband passed away a little over a year ago. Oh gosh. Hold on. Hold on. Hold on. Hold on. What's up? I'm sorry Maria. Thank you. Oh, what's the funniest thing you remember Daniel doing? There's too many to count. Too many. What's one that pops into your mind? Um, he a silly thing. A silly thing. Um, he loved three things. I guess anything that he found he would bring it home. Um, and he found this big metal. We thought that it was a homemade like 1930s cellulite machine. And he got it home and for something it was like 500 pounds and just to have. Bro, was he was he trying to send you a message? Geez. And just laugh about it. Like that was just him. Did it work? No, we don't know. I think it was a little bit of a challenge to make it into some kind of roaster like chicken roast or something like that. Oh my gosh. Yeah, he was, he was full of everything. Yeah. I tell you what man, there's one thing I hope for. I hope when somebody says my wife was here. Good guy. She just gets quiet and says, yeah. Yeah. So, man, how can I sit with you today? What's going on? So like I said, I have three small children. When she passed five, two and six months old. Oh my gosh. Um, and you've talked about how big of an importance it is for sons to watch their fathers and to like learn how to treat a woman and for daughters to watch their fathers to learn how they want to be treated by a man. He was all that. I'm asking what advice you can give to help instill those values when they no longer have that in their life. Yeah, geez. So it's been over a year, you said. A little over a year. Are you at a place grounding wise? Where you have made the turn that everything is different now? Um, my, my heart is starting to get to the point where my mind knows that he's not coming back, but it's still it's a hard, yeah. Hard faced, fact of things. You still pick up the phone to text him every once in a while? Yeah. And for people listening to this call who've never experienced the absolute world implosion that you've experienced, that question might sound silly, but you know what I mean. That there's a daily reality. You've got three mouths to feed. You've got three kids to get out to school or to daycare. You got bills. You got a light bill that keeps coming right. Like you know innately just robotically, you're on, you're on your own. I got to tell myself, but there's like you said it perfectly. There's a heart thing. You still pick up the phone to call this guy or you still are like, oh I got to tell dint. Right. And then this your body just goes, whoosh. It's almost like you leave yourself. Right. Every morning when you wake up. Yeah. But the reality kind of hits like there was another day. Like there's no. I want to say there's no end, but there's no like, okay, we got through it. Yeah. And maybe that's the best line I can give you is there's not getting through this. You'll just find yourself expanding over time and it just takes. I wish there was any other thing other than it just takes time. Yeah. And now I just, I mean, I can. Deal. But I just want, I want my kids to grow up to be good people. Hey, listen to me. They will be. And I'll give you a few things you can do, but I want you to rest assured you're doing the right things. Okay. It's going to be different, but they're going to look back and see how strong their mom was. And you're going to give them a picture of what strength looks like that few kids will ever get. And you're going to give them a master class in. This is what grief looks like. And this is what doing the next heart excruciatingly hard thing looks like. And they're going to get to feel what love feels like through how much you miss their dad. Okay. They're going to experience that in real time. They're going to have a compassion that few people have. And there's some pitfalls and challenges we can talk through those, but I want to start the conversation with. Like you're a deeply caring, powerful, strong woman, and they're going to be good. Okay. They're going to have some hard challenges ahead. No question about it. But, and you are too. But the fact that you're asking this question now tells me they're going to be they're going to be they're going to be great. Okay. And I'm not just saying that I wouldn't just make that that up. Okay. So does your five year old have pictures in his head? Yeah. Yeah, he has memories. And I mean, I think like we have a picture, a continuous picture frame with all pictures and videos and they look at it every day. And we talk about him and pray about him and all that. But I think he has real memories, but. And now three, the middle one. I think he just goes by the memories, like the by the pictures that he sees. Yeah, he'll create stories behind the pictures and then his stories and the stories he hears from his older brother and from you will feel like memories, but they're not, right? Yeah. And part of that is heartbreaking. That's a whole other level of grief. Yeah. Right. And that's part of that's part of his process. So. It for the next, let me say this for the next six months for the next year, the next two years. For the rest of their childhood, even if I'm gonna say some crazy, okay, the feelings wise, but even if you go on to remarry somebody. You constantly. Letting them know what kind of man your daddy was. They're daddy. And you know what your dad used to do for me. He would hold me tight when it was cold. He would always pick up some silly thing. Right. And it's it's you're gonna teach him those lessons through your lived experience. So they might not have a picture of seeing a man treat his wife with such amazing love like he did treat you. They're gonna have an internalized sense of the stories because they're gonna they're gonna feel them from their mom. And is that the same thing? No, it's not, but it's still really powerful. Okay. You're all coming up on Christmas. This guy sounds like he was. I say generous. And what I mean by that is I don't know what his giving habits were, but generosity like he seems like a person who was full of life. Very much was that he gave life to a room or to a household or to his friends. Does that make sense? Yeah. Yeah. He did. So what a cool thing this year. If you set a table for him at Thanksgiving, set a place for him. And you wrote a letter to him to tell him how amazing his three kids are. And you read that letter in front of your three kids. Your three year old will squirm won't know what's going on and might think it's boring. Your five year old might kind of remember. You're one and a half year old will just be babbling around and probably to diaper change, right? Like it's not gonna be this big grand hallmark moment. It will feel better. I don't even know if you'll feel better, but it will let those kids know they're anchored in the other half of themselves. Was amazing, which means they're amazing to. Yeah. Right. Yeah. And then if he was a generous person. We're gonna set up an annual ritual, whether it's at Thanksgiving, whether it's at Christmas, where the four of y'all go give somebody a gift. Go do something nice because this is what your dad would have done. He was such a giving generous guy. Okay. And you look at your three kids and say, that means y'all are generous too. Yeah. And so what's a toy that we want to give to somebody who doesn't have any toys? What is something we want to do for a neighbor and we're gonna just, that's how they're gonna begin over time to make meaning of this loss. Okay. But man, they, those three kids, they lost everything when he left, but man, they won a lottery with you. Thank you. I'm trying my best. I know you are. Are you working? Yes. Do you have family support? Uh, yeah. Not great. Some. I'll have to have. Here's another really hard truth. Okay. Normally, if we were talking, I would say, hey, next week when you come back, we'll talk about this. But since we're here, I don't want to leave the call without telling you this. Okay. This is a lot to take in. Your kids, are they, what is their gender? Uh, two boys. So the oldest one now is just turn seven. Okay. Um, a three-row boy and then a little, my little girl is 18 months old. Okay. Are you plugged into a church community? Yes. Okay. Your new responsibility is to get other men into their lives. Yeah. Well, I mean, we have, like, my friends have really, really shown up for me in his front, from his friends. But I want you to formalize it. And that's going to feel like another loss all over again. But they do have to have other pictures of men in their lives. And you want it, I want it. They need it to have been their dad. And that's not an option anymore. And so they have to have images. They've got to have real lived experiences with other good men. And so what I would tell you is it would be one of my highest honors if one of my friends passed away. And his wife called me. I would probably take it on myself, but I do this for a living, right? Not everybody wants to intrude. They don't know what to do next to say once a month, would you take my oldest to breakfast? He needs some men in his life. And Daniel trusted you. So I trust you. Okay. Okay. And that becomes your new mission is I've got to get some good men in their lives. Because the phone, you know what I'm talking about here? The harrowing silence after the phone stops ringing, right? Yeah. Because you had tons of guys reaching out wanting to help mowing your lawn doing that kind of stuff when it first happened. And here you are a year plus later. And that phone was ringing so much, right? Yeah. Or you get the random text like, hey, do you need anything? Well, what are, you know, what am I supposed to do with that, right? Yeah. And so there is a proactive nature to this. And there's going to be, it's going to be a, a hodgepodge of emotion. Where you're so grateful that Daniel, one of his best friends who lives a couple of streets over, comes over and picks your kid up and takes him to breakfast and then drops him off at school for you. And it's going to feel like a nightmare because that should be Daniel. Yeah. Right? Mm-hmm. All those feelings are right. Gratitude, grief, sadness, heartbreak, joy, all that is mushed together. Yeah. I appreciate your time. Will you call me anytime you need anything? Is there anything that you need? No. Thank you. If you need financial resources, if you need psychological resources, if you need anything, you haul back at us. And we'll walk alongside you, okay? Just as a gang, as the OG 17 gang listening to this, we're all with you. We're all heartbroken. And for everybody who's currently married to somebody is awesome as Daniel. This Thanksgiving, I want you to write that I want you to write. This Thanksgiving, I want you to write that husband of yours a letter. And I want you to read it to him in front of your kids. We don't celebrate each other well in this culture. We just get real busy and we go do the next right thing. And we co-manage our households and we co-manage our kids. And our kids need to see us celebrate each other. And so if you have an amazing husband like Daniel, a guy who's just a lot, brings home 500 pound broken down cellulite machines, right? He's going to turn into a turkey roaster. And he's out riding his motorcycle and he's just a life of every... It's easy to look and be like, oh, God, he brought junk home again. Or it's also just as easy to go. This guy's awesome. He's crazy. I love him. But we need to celebrate each other. So this Thanksgiving, write your spouse a letter and celebrate him in front of other people. Let them know that you see him, that you know him, and that you're so grateful. Thank you for the call, sister. Super honor that you call. Call anytime. We'll be right back. This show is sponsored by Better Health. As we head into the new year, I want you to take an inventory of all the stuff you're carrying. All the things you think you have to do or should do, along with all the past herds and pains, past guilt, past shame. Listen, when the world feels heavy, it's important to first look in the mirror and consider setting down all of that old weight and not carry it into 2026. 2026 is going to have enough chaos of its own without you bringing all of the past into it. Therapy can help you identify that heavy stuff, that old guilt, that old shame, and move forward with clarity so you can focus on being light heading into the new year. If you're thinking about therapy, check out my friends at Better Health. They have over 30,000 therapists and they're one of the leading online therapy providers on the planet. They're trusted by millions of people around the world with an average rating of 4.9 stars out of 5. It's online so it's easy to fit into your schedule to get started. Just answer a few simple questions and they'll connect you with a licensed therapist who will fit your needs. If it's not the right fit, you can change therapists at any time for no extra cost. You can't feel lighter without leaving behind what's been weighing you down. Go to betterhelp.com slash Deloney to get 10% off your first month. That's BetterHelpHELP.com slash Deloney. All right, we're back. So this episode comes out a couple of months after Thanksgiving and or maybe a month and a half after Thanksgiving after Christmas. And I realized the caller I just told, hey, write a letter. I told you guys is the audience. Write a letter during Thanksgiving. What's past that? It's not too late and I want you to do that this week. Like gratitude celebrating your right or die person is something we as all of us have to be better at. I've been going through reams of marriage data and one of the biggest challenges is we don't stop and celebrate each other. We just notice the towel. So we just notice five minutes later. We just notice the, oh, it's our sex life is better. All of a sudden we just notice notice, notice negative, negative, negative. And some of that can be transformed through just changing the lens we look at, which is looking for things we're grateful for. And so yes, we're past Thanksgiving. If you're listening to this, you're like, I wish I'd know that Thanksgiving. I got it. I'm recording this the week of Thanksgiving. Thanksgiving is actually two days from now. But I want you to begin making this a regular practice to celebrate, to say thank you, to say I see you. Man, that's awesome. I'm grateful for you. And doing it in front of your kids is next level, next level. Something cool happened, Kelly 2.0, 3.0. What is it? Yes. So Kelsey writes to us from Chicago. She said, John is always talking about how kids are so quick to cut off their parents. I've not had a great relationship with my father since I was born. We've gone extended periods of time where we didn't talk. I finally had the opportunity to let my dad know how I felt and put some boundaries in place. They weren't initially taking well, but after a few days, we talked again and forgave each other on various things. Since then, he's been very honest with me. We talk more and more, and I'm so glad I have my dad in my life. I'm really thankful for you, John, to have you in the back of my mind when I wanted to give up on my relationship with my father. Thank you to you and the team. I feel like I have a piece of myself back. That's awesome, dude. Yeah, in this new year, especially if you're like, man, Christmas was just the same. Or we got in a big, another complaining argument over things, giving it whatever. Make the call. Sometimes, especially when relationships are abusive or whatever, like I need to not contact you anymore. Most of the time, it's about having some hard conversations around boundaries that helps reestablish the relationship. It provides people with guardrails so that we are free to love inside these guardrails. And often, that's what people need. We live in a culture that has told us what we all want is no boundaries, no restrictions. And that's just not true. People are desperate for boundaries. And you setting boundaries and then communicating them clearly to someone as important as your mom, as your dad. It can be one of the greatest gifts. They might walk away, but they might not. It's awesome. What was your name? You can Kelsey? Kelsey. Good on you, Kelsey. I'm proud of you. I'm proud of you. That's how you change your family tree right there. Love you guys. Happy New Year. Bye.