Nancy Guthrie and Daughter's Homes Searched Again, Plus NEW Ransom Details, with Brian Entin, Fitzgerald, Ayers, and O'Shea | Ep. 1248

Welcome to the Megan Kelly Show live on Sirius XM channel 111 every week day at East. Hey everyone on Megan Kelly welcome to the Megan Kelly show. Hopefully you joined me and my family in switching the channel to the turning point USA halftime show last night. We hope to get into those dueling performances later in the show. But we begin today with the latest in the search for Nancy Guthrie the 84 year old mother of NBC news host Savannah Guthrie who authorities believe was forcibly removed from her home in Arizona a week and a day ago. She was last seen Saturday January 31st, which is nine days ago and given that we know she lives with a pacemaker and has limited mobility. The outlook does not it doesn't look good. I mean her family said on day one that she has life saving medication she needs that she can't live without. And that was you know last Monday and here we are now nine days from the time she was last seen in eight days from the confirmed disappearance. The latest from the Pima County Sheriff's Department on X quote no suspects persons of interest or vehicles have been identified. Not even a person of interest more than a week out do we believe that I don't. Let's check in to see what sheriff Chris Nanos was doing this weekend. Was he looking for a person of interest or suspect? Let's see. Oh, it doesn't appear so. This is a picture obtained by Fox News digital showing sheriff Nanos at Saturday's University of Arizona men's basketball game. Having a grand old time. I'm sorry, but that is completely tone deaf. I don't care that he needs to blow off steam. You know what? Really needs a release from the stress of this past week Savannah Guthrie. Yeah, she's somebody who's actually really suffering and that's obvious. She's not going to be able to go to a sports game to take her mind off of it. Sheriff because she needs you to do your job and to do it better before she can. I don't know what's happening. I'm praying, praying every day that this is like an Idaho situation where the police look like nincompoops while on camera and behind the scenes, they're solving it. I'm really praying that's what's happening and very open-minded to that actually being the case. Very relieved that the FBI is on scene and working with this sheriff because just the sheriff's own on camera mistakes have been plenty. There have been plenty of them on very material matters. And so I've grown to the point where I really don't know that we should trust his word. And I also really do wonder how someone could be that tone deaf. If you want to go blow off steam in the middle of a very stressful, busy, possible murder, possible kidnapping situation, you should have dinner with your family. You should have friends over or go to somebody's house. You should not go out in public and cheer on a sports game. It looks insensitive, sir. The Daily Mail reporting this morning that the sheriff's six-person homicide detective team handling the case lacks major case experience. The investigator leading the probe reportedly has been working homicides for just two years. The most experienced detective on the team has worked on murders for just three years. FBI director Cash Patel is reportedly traveling to Arizona today, but we're told it's a previously scheduled trip unrelated to the Guthrie case. We do know that the FBI is on the case. We saw Mr. Yankee co-hosting that presser last Thursday. So let's hope one of or all of these law enforcement agencies figure out what exactly is going on there so that this family can have some relief. We walk you through the developments over the weekend in this morning's AM update, which is definitely worth your time this morning. But to quickly summarize, local Tucson station, K-O-L-D received another message purportedly from Ms. Guthrie's captors. And another Tucson station called KGUN, K-GUN, is reporting now that the original ransom note received last week demanded $1 million by last Thursday and the price went up to $6 million by 5 p.m. this evening. The threat either implicit or explicit, no one's sharing exactly what else the note said, is that if they don't get this $6 million by 5 p.m. tonight, Nancy Guthrie will be killed because their original note that had the $1 million and $6 million demands we are told said she was okay, said they had her. There's still no confirmation that whoever's writing these messages has or has ever had possession of Nancy Guthrie. None whatsoever. There's been no proof of life or even captivity. None. Notwithstanding that Savannah and her siblings Annie and Cameron did put out a new video Saturday night, which we now know was in response to the second note, the contents of which no one's really sharing. I mean, it didn't go a lot. The first one went to TMZ and two others. The second note, which we know virtually nothing about, went only to the one station. And it said virtually nothing. I mean, it, not that it said virtually nothing, we know virtually nothing about what it said other than it tried to convince the media and ultimately the Guthries that it was being written by the same person who wrote the first note, which was a ransom note. We're told that note number two wasn't technically a ransom note. But again, we know almost nothing else about it. But we are now being told that this video I'm about to show you from the three siblings was a direct response to note number two. Watch. We beg you now to return our mother to us so that we can celebrate with her. This is the only way we will have peace. This is very valuable to us and we will pay. I think we cut off the first line of that where she said we heard you and we understand in her note. She made clear that they had received the second note. Though again, they're not sending these to the family. They're sending them to the media. We're going to break down what's to glean from that with our law enforcement analyst later in the show. It's very interesting she used the word celebrate, celebrate with her. I think any Christian knows that's in this context could very well be a reference to a celebration of life that you might have after someone has passed. The whole tone of it sounded to me more like an acceptance that perhaps their mom has gone and that they will pay to receive her remains. That's just my own take on it. I could be totally wrong on that. So we can celebrate with her. I mean, such an odd word if they're really like no one thinks that if Nancy got three as returned, there's going to be a massive celebration. We're going to celebrate. I mean, that's clearly not what she meant. The graveness of her manor and that of her brother and sister. I mean, completely appropriately grave in that message and their look and their tone and what they said to me was telegraphing. We know she's no longer alive, but we want her back. We want her remains. We want to give her a proper burial. We want to have a celebration of life. That's how I read it, but we'll ask our experts in just a bit. Over the weekend on Friday, there was a lot of activity in this case. On Friday night, authorities took possession of Nancy's blue Subaru from her garage. Very strange that it was still sitting in there. It's like the FBI got on scene last what Tuesday and started to say, have we done a thorough search for all the evidence? Why is the victim's car still sitting in the garage? Well, she didn't drive it. Well, how do you know that? Was she possibly stored in the car for some period of time when she was a captive? Maybe they considered removing her from her garage with her own car. Who knows? I'm sure somebody got on scene and said, seems like something we might want to search for clues. And now they have. They've seized the car. Investigators reportedly also investigating in nearby Circle K convenience store in relation to either a person or vehicle of interest. Now we had the locals, the workers at that Circle K speak to the media and say, yeah, the law enforcement came came by here and they wanted to know about a person who came by here and we showed them a videotape and they took it. I mean, again, the law enforcement is coming out saying there's no person of interest. There's no vehicle of interest. There's nothing. Now we know they're lying to us, okay? Like they're lying or they're using those terms as terms of art, person of interest, vehicle of interest, suspect like official suspect. We know that's not true. I mean, they are looking at various people and vehicles behind the scene. They've impounded in evidence. Annie got threes vehicle. Now Nancy got threes vehicle and they're asking about a suspicious vehicle at the Circle K and seizing surveillance tape of it. They're just not going to tell us. So that's fine. They got to play their game and I'm sorry, but the media is in a different game. We're in the, we get to the bottom of it and find truth game and I understand they're, they don't want to tell us everything. That's fine. That's how it is in every case, every case until they do want to use us and then they start leaking to us. We're not at that stage yet. Saturday we saw that new Savannah tape that we just played for you plus the investigators were seen at Savannah's sister Annie's home until 10 30 p.m. local time reports were that they spent some three hours inside the home. Now why would they go there in the evening when it's mostly dark? I mean, it's all dark 7 30 to 10 30 this time of year. Rather than going during the day when it's easier to see, you're going to get caught by the press either way. The press is camped out there. They're not leaving. Could be they just got a tip that evening, but photography flashes could be seen by reporters who were outside the residence as they have been and law enforcement knew they'd be there. Yesterday we saw law enforcement conduct a grid search and look into what appeared to be a manhole near Nancy's home, like a large picture of a manhole removed and then you just see this perfect circular opening into the earth. Now there's been some debate about whether it was a septic tank, although the man putting materials down there wasn't wearing any sort of a hazmat outfit, which those who understand how this is done speculated meant this was not a septic tank because he wouldn't have been doing that without any sort of mask or gloves or protective gear on given the nature of a septic tank. So could have just been a water tank. They're not in the main sewage line. We are told in this development, so we're just not sure, but he stuck some pipes down there and possibly a metal detector. There's reports that he stuck a metal detector down there and all you can think about is the poor family because I mean, it's like maybe he was looking for a weapon and of course, one has to consider maybe he was looking for the victim and the family has to sit there at home. I'm sure they're watching TV. I mean, could you not, if this were your loved one, could you not? And having hold your breath and wonder exactly what might be down there and what they were going to find, it appeared to be nothing, though that's unconfirmed. But nothing was seen, you know, getting pulled out of that hole in the earth. In a bit, we're going to bring in the best law enforcement analysts under this show to walk us through the latest plus MK True Crime host Phil Holloway is on his way to the scene right now. He will bring us exclusive reporting tomorrow. But we begin with someone who has broken many of the details of this story. News nations, Brian Enten, who's reporting live outside of Annie's home right now and was there the other night when law enforcement got there as well. At a certain point in life, you realize you are responsible for a whole lot of things, but the most important is your health because without it, nothing else matters. We may not think about our liver very much, but it's our body's daily filter processing everything you consume. It performs 500 plus daily functions, think energy production, digestion, fat metabolism, vitamin storage, and when your liver's overworked, you will feel it. Dose for your liver is a clinically backed liver health supplement taken in a daily two ounce drink. Dose says its highly absorbable liquid formula can cleanse the liver of unwanted stressors that may be slowing it down. Zero sugar, zero junk, zero calories. They say people who take dose consistently report less sluggishness, less midday crashes, better digestion, and even less bloating. New customers can save 35% on your first month of subscription by getting to dose daily dot CO slash MK dose daily dot CO slash MK or just enter MK when you check out. That's dose D O S E daily D A I L Y dot CO slash MK for 35% off your first month's subscription. Brian, welcome back. Great to see you. So can you set the scene for us on Saturday night and what happened at Annie's home? Yeah, Megan. It kind of came out of nowhere. I was over at Nancy's house, which is about 10 minutes away. And I got a call like something's going going down at Annie's house. So I raised over here. This is Annie's house behind me. And when I got here, there were three deputies that had just arrived. They have private security here, NBC hired private security. I'm told, and it seemed coordinated because the security guard just moved out of the way, let the three deputies in. And they had blue gloves on. They had some camera equipment that was in a case. They went inside and they were inside for three hours. They closed all the blinds. I could see them taking pictures. Yeah, there you go. Right. That's some of the stuff they brought out. I could see them taking pictures in the garage. You could see a flash from a camera. And then you could see them move throughout the house to other parts of the house because you could see the flash from the camera coming from from around the blinds. And it took about three hours. Yeah, they were inside for three hours. And then they packed up and they left. They didn't say a word. And NBC is reporting today that it was consensual that I guess it was worked out with the family that they were going to show up, which really doesn't surprise me. Because again, it didn't seem like they knew they were coming. The security guard moved out of the way. They knew how to get into the house. There's no one at the house right now. So they went in on their own and it all seems like very coordinated. Brian, where's the family? It's a good question. We don't know. They were here. Brian was at this house early last week with her sister, her sister's husband and Cameron was here also. And this is where they filmed the first video because we saw them bring the ring light and the tripod in. And somehow they left without anyone really noticing. And it's interesting. There were more security guards here, specifically hired by NBC when Savannah was here. There were three security guards. And then when she left, now there's only one security guard just sort of keeping an eye on the house and time people to stay back. Well, it's interesting to watch NBC in the mornings on the today show to see what they're reporting on this case because there's no question in my mind. It will have been blessed by Savannah. There's zero doubt that they are asking her, are you comfortable with this? Are you okay? They would not want to upset her or report, get out ahead of their skis or go someplace where she didn't want it. And they were the ones who broke the news that the search of Annie's home was consensual as opposed to, you know, via search warrant. So to me, I'm deducing, though I can't confirm it as an independent fact, that she doesn't want it looking like her sister or anybody living in that home, like the brother-in-law are in any way in trouble. But that does not jive with Ashley Balfeil's reporting about them considering Annie's husband, Tomas. And that he may quote, be a, may be a prime suspect in this case. We're still investigating that too, Brian, and whether the brother is coming under, brother in law is coming under the scrutiny of law enforcement. And all I can tell you is that I have reason to believe Ashley Balfeil was on to something. I don't know that he did this, but I do believe her reporting that they are taking a very serious look at him. And he's been out of the picture. I mean, he has not been in any of the videos. Has he been seen at all, Brian? He hasn't been seen since I think it was Tuesday of last week. We got some photos of him outside the house here. He's very recognizable with this big beard. And he was outside with his wife, Savannah's sister, Annie, and they were in the car together. But it's been, it's now been almost a week. And something else interesting, you mentioned how they went, the authorities went and retrieved the surveillance video from the gas station and that they were looking for someone. That gas station is a circle K and it's right around the corner from Annie's house. It's not close to Nancy's house. It's right around the corner from Annie's house. And it's where it's positioned is where you would have to drive to go from Nancy's house to Annie's house, which I think is really interesting. It's literally like one minute away from here. Here's what I want to know. I want to know whether anybody's been asked to give and or has given a polygraph. Not a peep about that. Is that correct? No one's saying a word. Not a word. I interviewed yesterday a former homicide detective for Pima County who was there for 20 years. And as now retired, and it's interesting what you were reporting in the beginning year of show. I mean, he says the same exact thing that there's been so much turnover there that it's a mess at the sheriff's office and that most of the homicide detectives have like two years experience. And so he's concerned a lot of the veterans like him have left just because they've been upset with the department for different reasons. And there was a different sheriff. And then another sheriff came back and it's been a mess there. But he was telling me that in his 20 years there, they never once administered a polygraph. That wasn't something that they did as a sheriff's office ever, not even once. But I know. Yeah, I know. But I don't know if now that the FBI is involved, maybe they would be doing that. I don't know because while they suggested it was a joint investigation at the Thursday presser, FBI, Pima County, my understanding is it's Pima County running hurt on this. It's their investigation, their running point. And so that may tell us some unfortunate things. Here's the other thing I want to know. The Sunday discovery that Nancy was missing allegedly came down to someone at her church noticing she wasn't there and calling the family, which then sent the family to Nancy's home, which led to the discovery of the crime scene. However, it looked, they haven't really told us what was inside the home. The Daily Mail and you also, we talked about this last week, reporting that Nancy Guthrie was actually attending, it was no longer attending the church that they said she was and that in fact, she'd been going virtual for the past five years since COVID that she'd been, participating in the live stream that this church offers. Leading us to ask, how would anybody have noticed that she wasn't on the live stream because it's not like a zoom where you can see people joining. Now we did actually try to join it this weekend and realize that there's a chat. You can join a chat. So it is possible that somebody was in the chat. Look, maybe it was my own bias. The thought of my mom, not only joining a live stream who's 84, but actually then getting in the church chat during the mass and chatting, like it's an impossibility, but maybe Nancy Guthrie was a lot more tech savvy than my 84 year old mom could be. She had an Apple watch. So I want to know whether the investigators have tracked down the alleged parishioner who was purported to have made the phone call, Brian. Do we know whether that's happened? It hasn't happened from what we know and that's been one of the strange things about this, is we've all me and then all of my other colleagues. We all talk about it on the street. We've all been trying to figure out this church element. Everybody has been to the church. Everybody has talked to the pastor and the pastor has said that she went to the church, but that she hasn't come back in person since COVID, that she goes virtually. And no one seems to know that she went to another church and the church over the weekend at their service, the pastor talked about Nancy and it appears that's the church she goes to. And what I thought was interesting, Megan, is at the last press conference, the sheriff never brought up the church again. It's almost like he said that the first time right after this happened, but then no one ever talks about the church anymore. So I don't know, the sheriff made a lot of weird off the cuff remarks and mistakes. I don't know if that's just something he said initially. And now there's another reason that the family was concerned that has nothing to do with the church. I just don't know. Here's what he said when asked, the question was, have you interviewed the people that reported her, meaning Nancy missing from the church? And he responded, we're doing all kinds of interviews. Yes, I'm sure we have. Okay, which is not actually a yes. That's not actually yes at all. It's actually kind of disconcerting. And yet another thing that either they do need to do or they've done and he's just not telling us we don't know. So Brian, what about today, the deadline now for this 5 p.m. $6 million payment is looming. And the Savannah and siblings video from the other night said, we will pay. It said we will pay. But they've had no proof of life. They don't know whether these people actually have their mom. And so do we believe that they're actually going to pay $6 million in Bitcoin like has any law enforcement spoken to this or shed any light on what the next step should be? I mean, they said Savannah said they will pay whether they end up doing it. We don't know. And it's interesting. You mentioned the local affiliate was reporting. I think you said it was $1 million and $6 million. That's a little different than what I've learned. I learned it was $4 million and $6 million and $4 million was the first deadline on Thursday at 5 p.m. And $6 million is the deadline today. But that was in the first note. And the second note, while we don't know exactly what it says, there are some indications that it, you know, based on what Savannah said in her video, the second note may have alluded to Nancy not being okay. And that's why I'm hearing they're not calling it a ransom note. They're just calling it a note. And there was no demand for payment in the second note. It was just a message to the family. It wasn't like, and you can still pay this amount by this time. So I don't, and also is there a third note that we just don't know about? But that's the other thing I've been wondering. Maybe they're just not reporting on it yet. And Savannah's video is responding to a third note. I wonder the same because some of the messaging is so controlled and calculated. It almost seems like they're saying something they were, can we watch the Savannah video one more time? Let's just watch it one more time. We received your message and we understand. We beg you now to return our mother to us so that we can celebrate with her. This is the only way we will have peace. This is very valuable to us and we will pay. So first of all, it's incredibly grim. They're all very grim faced. There's nothing about their expressions, their telegraphs. They've gotten any sort of hopeful news. We understand, she says, we understand in a sad, like contemplative way. We beg you. She's begging them now, saying, give us our mother back so we can celebrate with her. Again, that word celebrate sticks out like a sore thumb and it's the only way we'll have peace, which is another word associated with I think people who are grieving having a settlement of the grief, even if it's a sad settlement, but just a settlement. Like you know what's what's happened and you can be a piece with it to me. That's what she was telegraphing. But you're right. We don't know what was in the note. Wait, but Brian, the four million dollars would make more sense to me than four and six makes more sense to me than one and six. Because I have to tell you, you know, I've had this conversation behind the scenes with a few different people. Let's face it, a million dollars is not much for Savannah Guthrie. That's she can lose that easily and not really even feel it. So like if that were the initial demand, I think they would have just paid it. They would have just paid it on Thursday. Four million is a different, that's a different, I mean, that's a lot more. Yeah, and I'm confident in my reporting, the person who I spoke to saw the note himself. So I'm sure it was four million and six million. And I can't remember if I talked to you about this last time, but the other thing that was in the first note that was so alarming to the FBI, there's two things. One, the location of the Apple Watch inside Nancy's room was very, very specific. And the other thing is they specifically referenced a damaged, smashed flood light in the backyard, which has since been removed up on the back of Nancy's house, which is smashed. So those two things were spot on in the first note, which appears to be why they've been taking all of this so seriously. But Brian, don't you think like, okay, so the flood light is visible from the outside. People were crawling all over the property, and especially Monday, I think the first notes came Tuesday. So you would have just had to see it on sometimes Sunday or Monday, or prior to that. Potentially you could have seen a prior to that if you were a contractor taking advantage of the family's pain here and you'd been inside the house. You might know about that flood light and you might know where she keeps her Apple Watch at night. The thing that I can't get past is if I stole somebody and I needed to give proof of life so that I could get millions of dollars, I would ask that person questions that only that person would know the answers to. And I would put that information in my note. Like information above all would be proof of life. But who would say where she keeps the Apple Watch, or that a flood light had been damaged as they're, aha, it is I, I've got your person, proof. Right. Yeah, it's a good point. You think there'd be something more specific. And initially, they really wanted to open these lines of communication, but imagine if there really is a kidnapper, they would be hesitant to do that because you know the FBI is trying to track. And I don't know if you knew this Megan, but we found out through the news director of KOLD, which is where both notes went, that it wasn't submitted through like an email. It came through a news tips form that you fill out on the website of, you know what I mean? Like you can fill out your name subject. Both, both notes are just the second one. Both notes. They went to KOLD at least. I don't know if it's the same with TMZ. So I think that makes it harder to track and they used, you know, a scrambler for the IP address because it was different IP addresses, both times. So if they, I don't know that you can attach a picture that way. I know, I don't even think you need a picture though. Like if somebody had a relative of yours or anybody or mine or anybody listening, we all know certain things they could ask the relative. Like if anybody who I know very well, a family member needed to prove through a kidnapper that it was them that they were with the kidnapper. They absolutely could do it with information, with references, you know, with like family jokes. It would be easy. And so just the fact that this person has gone with something so weird, like an outside flood light and the location of an apple, what is that? That proves to me you've been to the house and it looks like you've been in the house. But that, think of the number of contractors, an 84 year old has going through her home. You can do very little as an 84 year old. She probably has somebody help her change her light bulbs. She definitely has somebody change her air filters her air conditioner goes on the fritz somebody comes in that the person who may have changed the roof recently as the neighbor observed. It's like the list is so long, but now we're talking about somebody who's taking advantage of the family's pain and not necessarily the person who's causing it. Well, and or is all this just a side show, Megan? I mean, I've been thinking about this all weekend, you know, is all of this just something that the FBI has to look into and that Savannah and her family have to respond to because you put yourself in their shoes, you know, just in case, how could you not? What if in the one percent chance it is true? You know, you want to respond, you want to try. But is there a whole other side of this investigation happening that like you mentioned at the beginning, we just don't know about. I mean, I'm coming here to the house, you know, at nine o'clock at night on the Saturday I don't know where the only thing that I'm skeptical about that though is that it was these three sheriff's deputies who were just kind of like, I don't know. I mean, I saw the raid at Nancy's house, I shouldn't say raid, but I saw when the FBI team showed up, it was like insane. I mean, it was a full on FBI. They're in their special outfits. They're in the fancy vans and the evidence unit and the tape goes up and it felt so organized. Here on Saturday night, it was just these three deputies that I mean, I need to say that their cars were a little beat up and they get out and they kind of wobble in. Like if this was so serious here, why didn't the FBI come here? Like there's just, there's a lot I can't figure out. Mm-hmm. And all we know, so like from what you could tell from outside was that they were taking pictures on the inside, right? Right. Could you tell whether they were spraying chemicals or, you know, anything like that inside? No. No, and I heard people say, you know, could it be lumen all, you know, they do that at night sometimes to, you know, so that they can use a black light and see if there's blood inside. That could be one of the reasons they came at night or maybe, like you said, they may have just gotten some piece of information and they said, let's go out there or like what feels like the rest of this investigation, maybe they're just realizing, oh, God, we forgot to do this. How have we not done this yet? Let's let we got to go on and get pictures of the inside of the house just in case, just like they didn't tone ants. He's car until Friday night, which it's like, why wouldn't they have done that earlier in the week? Former homicide detective, I spoke to he's in shock. He's like, how was all of this stuff not done within the first 48 hours? Why are they going back and doing all these things days later? And you mentioned the sheriff at the basketball game. You know that was around the time Savannah released this, this second video. So he's at the basketball game. It's the same time, Megan. He's at the basketball game. As you see Savannah holding her siblings hands, you know, maybe saying that they think Nancy's dad like, well, come on, dude, look, what are you doing? You know, understand the objects. We had two points I wanted to make. Number one, the other possibility at the the search in Annie's home, which was by consent according to NBC and only had the three guys in the beat up car show up to take pictures is that that could be by design because right now the family is giving them consent. The family is working with them. The sheriff said that earlier last week, they're cooperating and we want that to continue. We cannot show up FBI style and do this because we do not wish to telegraph to anybody in the family that they are anything other than victims in our eyes. And we don't we certainly don't want to go and guns blazing with the full FBI treatment and telegraph that we think this may be a crime scene. So we're going to keep it on the down low. We're going to keep it casual so that they're not regretting giving us the consent. It's possibility. Don't know, just speculating. Secondly, on the for on the delays and that your your former law enforcement guy at Pima County and his shock. Right, that's all I could think when they were when they were out looking in the, you know, whether it's a water tank, whatever they were looking at that with the manhole cover. And the grid search renewing again and searching again in Nancy's home is now like now you're going to do that now. So you did one day of searching. They searched that last Sunday a week ago into Monday and by Monday afternoon, they had called off the search, the sheriff used that term saying maybe we'll resume it, but they had called it off. And I don't want to be to graphic, but like this is an area riddled with wildlife. Like if they're looking for a dead body, it's been a long time. Like this was a long time to wait to get really aggressive about searching for human remains. Yeah, I wonder. Look, we don't know it. Like you mentioned Idaho, we found out later they knew a lot behind the scenes with coberger that we that we didn't know. And I was being hard on them every single day. And then I went back and I said, oh my gosh, I was wrong. They were really, you know, working hard behind the scenes. But is it possible here? This is like almost cold right now. Like are they sitting in a room somewhere saying what else can we do? Like we know we're hitting so many dead ends. Oh, do we check the septic tank? Oh, do we check the water tank? Oh, let's go photo. You know what I mean? Like I think that's a possibility too. I really do. They same they could just be in a room like what box have we not checked because we're screwed right now. We're hitting dead ends. But it does make you wonder whether they've seen something via an email, a cell phone record, or something to suggest that Nancy wasn't kidnapped that she was killed. I think there was something in the second note. I do. I think the message, the reason they're being so careful not to call it or ransom note, and it was a message. I think there was something in that note that led Savannah to be very specific in her wording there. So do you think Brian then that that, I mean, like you're, you're got, I know you don't know, but do you think that the notes are coming from the actual perpetrator? I mean, that's, I wish I knew. That's the big question. I'm still 50, everyone keeps asking me like my mom's texting me every morning. I'm still 50, 50 like on whether this is really a kidnapping. Like I go back and forth because so much of it doesn't make sense. But would they put Savannah through this? Would they be make, I mean, just the misery that she has to go through when she makes these videos? And you know that they've got to be treating her with kid gloves and feel terrible for, would they be putting her through that if, if it wasn't legitimate, if they didn't believe it was a possibility? Yeah, law enforcement, I mean. But at the same time, if there is someone else involved and you go back to Banfields reporting, and I don't have any of that reporting, but if it is some kind of inside job or someone who knows the family, are they also treating it with kid gloves and saying we got to check every box here. We're not rushing into this because this is Savannah Guthrie and we're about to like humiliate this person. I mean, you know what I mean? Mad you would feel suddenly it's someone in your orbit that is responsible. So I do think because it's her, they're being very, very careful. Brian and you've been doing great work. Highly recommend Brian's show. Just Google it in the podcast. Brian and ENTIN, ENTIN, you'll find it or YouTube. I watch them both ways and I love all your content, my friend. Thank you for being on. Thanks, Megan. Coming up, we dig into the case further with some law enforcement experts and more and I have a lot of questions that I want answered a lot and we're going to get into them next. Everybody's talking about weight loss injections because the results can be so dramatic. They work by lowering blood sugar and reducing appetite, but what if you're looking to lose weight, but you're not interested in painful weekly injections, especially when you hear about some of those intense side effects. That's why doctors created a weight loss supplement called lean and the results could be remarkable. Lean says the studied ingredients in their product have been shown to lower your blood sugar, burn fat by converting it into energy and curb your appetite and cravings so you are not as hungry. But listen, lean is not for the casual dieter with only a few pounds to lose. The doctors at Brick House Nutrition created lean for frustrated dieters with 10 or more pounds to lose. You could get started with 20% off and free rush shipping, adding lean to your healthy diet and exercise plan. Visit takelean.com and enter mk to get your discount. That's promo code mk at takelean.com. As we've been reporting, it is very difficult to obtain information from authorities in this case who are still claiming there is not even a person of interest. But one thing that's clear is the Guthrie family believes there is at least a chance the ransom notes are from Nancy's captor or captors. There's no other explanation for the three Instagram videos from Savannah's account where the siblings ask for further communication about how to get their mother home. To help us analyze all this, we wanted to bring in a seasoned hostage negotiator. And it's hard to find someone with more experience than our next guest. Commander Daniel O'Shea is a retired Navy SEAL who served as the coordinator of the hostage working group for the US Embassy in Iraq from 2004 to 2006. O'Shea managed more than 400 hostage incidents in his time in Iraq. And by the time he left, kidnappings had dropped to the single digits. Dan, welcome to the show. It's my pleasure and honor to be here, Megan. Okay, so just we're going to play it one more time, the latest video and get your take on what if anything you think has changed here? Here it is. This is released on Saturday night. We received your message and we understand. We beg you now to return our mother to us so that we can celebrate with her. This is the only way we will have peace. This is very valuable to us. And we will pay. What do you make of it, Dan? That's heartbreaking. I saw hundreds of these pleas from families from all over the world to try and bring their well-known home that was taken hostage by the likes of Al-Qaeda and other jihadist groups in Iraq. So it's troubling because it's the pain in English. I'm not knowing. And it brings back a lot of flashback a lot of members. But you can never give up hope. We had cases where there was a deadline set. Presumably, we know this group harmed, you know, miscalthory in the initial abduction because there was blood up to the scene. And we only know what blood was left outside. We don't know anything about what's done than done for forensically inside the house. So that's why big concern is that the propensity for violence from the get go is why everyone should be very concerned. And not so much because of the deadline, but because that the group's doing this is already shown they're willing to be violent with the 84-year-old woman, grandmother as well. So I mean, the big one of the big questions here is, are the people torturing the family with these notes, the same people that have or hurt Nancy Guthrie eight and a half days ago. I was saying to Brian Enten in the first segment, Dan, I just have a really hard time believing the people writing these notes were involved in Nancy's kidnapping or whatever happened to her because I was saying that if I had Nancy Guthrie, if I went to the trouble to kidnap somebody and then wanted to prove to somebody that I had her, I would not be referencing some damaged flood light or where her Apple watch was in her home. That's bullshit. That's the kind of stuff you manage to see through a window. And to me, it sounds like you're trying to sound like you know more than you do. If you've got Nancy, you can ask her anything, anything that would prove to her three children to know her better than anybody that you actually have her. You don't have to do a picture. You don't need a video. You just need her to tell you things only the children and the mother would remember from their childhoods. A hundred percent. And that's I, you're not, you're not a H&R, a K&R background or Hustle's negotiated, but I had that suspicion. What do we from almost day one on the first ransom note came out first off. They sent the ransom note to TMZ, a tabloid network, and then the local news media. All right. That's not how K&R K&R for ransom works. If kidnapping is a business around the world and the groups that do the kidnapping, they have the prize. They grab the prize and they want to keep that prize protected and they want to demonstrate to the perspective they buy or pay or that we have who you're looking for. Let's start the negotiation and you come out with a large number. That four million initial to six million the latest ransom note that's outside outside the norm range for an American because that's you know this is a big business and because obviously cement a cement and a gun three you know big news network morning show host she's going to have the resources to probably come over that kind of money and that's what they're counting on. But then you've got a negotiating good faith and from no way shape or form has the group that is claiming to hold her been operating good faith and the fact that they haven't been able to provide a substantial proof of life or even trying to cement some AI version of it which could have been you know suspected they're trying to this but I I am suspect that the group that has her is the group the took her response for abduction is the group that is sending these messages. They may be related but I really think this is part of the show in drama to drive up this news media story and why is that happening. Let's go to the underlying motives and the motives may not be money and I don't think it's money they want here. I think they want the news media attention focus on this case to maybe get some of the news stories off off the net and then go why did they target you know Savannah and Gunn three and you have to look at well she's not a controversial figure like yourself or say can a so on when you have people on the left or right. I mean just being honest that you've got enemies you've got people that don't like you but you know Savannah Savannah and Gunn three is you know I don't watch your morning show but I know who she is and she's like a very nice lady and you know what's the most controversial thing she's ever done. Maybe some of her interviews in the past. Well I mean she's no she's not controversial but that doesn't rule out some freak stalker who just interpreted some reports she did as an attack or as some sort of you know that that element is still alive and well around her and we can't rule that out that it's some stranger who's obsessed with her. Oh of course of course but then why are you going after the mother unless you're trying to hurt her. So who has a reason to want to hurt Savannah Gunn three wouldn't be the list would not be long but go to some of her interviews and I'm not trying to I'm not going to come up with this because this conversation I've had you know with virtually everyone I've talked to you especially offline when you don't have a two minute segment on a news channel. She interviewed a lot of the Epstein victims in depth interviews with Virginia Grouffet and some of the other women and what came out a week before the this abduction days before the Epstein files all over the news and now what is taken over the news media and maybe that was done intentionally I'm not saying that's the case but there's more to this group I do not think it's a traditional cannot-parence them they're not demonstrating any of the things that are normally associated with people that are in the kidnapping business to make money and I think it's a media attention but you have to go into it that there are evil people out there that will do terrible things to one of the human beings I double that you know we had a woman in Iraq her name was Margaret Asan she was the director of Karen International she was a five foot 180 pound Irish woman who lived in Iraq for 20 plus years in Meredith local she she lived the fourth people of Islam which is our cut she gave alms to the poor she fed the poor she was a boat there we go a beloved woman and that did not protect her she she was murdered by by her actors and I'm one of the few Americans sadly had had to watch that execution video and it was it was very trouble and very sad so there's evil in the world no matter how good you are that doesn't protect you from someone that wants to hurt you so if you were advising this family at this point and we are told that the second note did not contain proof of life that they're revealing very little about it but we are told it did not contain proof of life when we know the first letter said they had Nancy and claimed she was alive I believe but did not have proof of life you saw the video from the family begging for such proof after they received the first note would you advise them to pay because right now it's the day of the deadline 5 p.m. tonight and TMZ is just reporting that a the bitcoin account allegedly set up to accept these funds is empty as of this time this morning it's unclear how long it typically takes accounts to update they write but as of now the confirmed balance in the publicly viewable account stands at zero with no transactions recorded so at least as of almost 1 p.m. eastern time the family has not made any deposits into the bitcoin account how would you advise them well this is just very harsh and it's only come from experience because I think that someone evil enough to hurt a 84 year old woman makes being okay my initial thoughts again a week ago was a cartel involved in this because the close proximity to the Arizona and Mexican border the fact that I know the cartels have no problem with kidnapping they're beyond alcheta they're probably the biggest kidnapping ring out there you know formally the FARC had that title so was that a connection to the FARC excuse me to the cartels because they have a propensity to violence they have kidnapped young social media influencers in Mexico and murdered them so they're not above above the thought but I I again I always started with the notion especially when I would talk to the ambassadors from these countries where they had hosties I would always be upfront with them and say sir you have to begin with the I'm presumption that your your citizens that have been kidnapped by this group claiming to be affiliated with alcheta or whoever that they're not coming home you have to start with that presumption and in the in the fact that this group has not shown proof of life and I really think the media is what they're going for so we had deadlines come and go without Kate a jail carol the young christian science reporter 28 year old girl American girl she had deadlines come and go and she was entered a broad home after 83 days of captivity because of pressure put on by special forces you know the unit they went out every night to hunt for her and she was brought home safely because the unit the kidnapping ring finally said through their hands up and said maybe if we give her up these bad dudes will suck coming after us and that's ultimately what happened so the family I would I would strongly recommend to not pay the ransom not pay any of it because I don't think I think that'd be money going into the wind for nothing because I don't trust there's no trust and good faith between this group and the family and they've they've shown none of it and they're just torturing Savannah and her family and I would be blunt enough to speak to the family that let's start with the presumption that your mother did not survive the initial the initial abduction and this may have been a home invasion that went wrong may have been a stalker as you said to do the same but I would recommend strongly against paying the ransom today by that one wouldn't agonize agonizing decision to have to make at their most vulnerable and weakest of course you'd be at your weakest right now you're not your strongest mentally or emotionally in the wake of this tragedy it's awful damn thank you for your expertise and for your service too thank you up next Jim Fitzgerald is back along with Chad Ayers and a lot to go over with them don't miss it let's be honest america can still be a dangerous place and you cannot afford to wait for help sure you could use a firearm but in today's america defending yourself with deadly force could have legal consequences according to FBI data 99.9% of all altercations do not require lethal force and that's exactly why so many are turning to burner burner is proudly american hand assembled in fort Wayne Indiana these less lethal self defense launchers are trusted by hundreds of government agencies law enforcement departments and private security companies over 600,000 burner pistols have been sold most to private citizens who refuse to be victims burner launchers fire rock hard kinetic rounds and powerful tear gas and pepper projectiles capable of stopping a threat from up to 60 feet away no background checks no waiting periods and burner can ship straight to your door take responsibility protect your future visit burnah.com right now or your local sportsman's warehouse that's b-y-r-n-a.com or your local sportsman's warehouse visit now and be prepared to defend back me again this week to discuss the latest on the nancy gothry case former SWAT team leader Chad Ayers and former FBI supervisory special agent Jim Fitzgerald co-host of the cold red podcast welcome back gentlemen let's start with what president trump said on air force one on friday here it is this is a promise to man a gothry's family the full support of federal law enforcement FBI is now giving a little statement i think we're doing very well on that rigour you probably surprised me or that i think we're doing very well very well meeting we have some clues i think that are very strong and i think we could have some answers coming up fairly soon ancient wide searched is this a search going to met so i'm gonna talk about it search i'm talking about a solution we have some things i think that will maybe come out reasonably soon from doj or FBI or whoever that could be uh could be definitive yes a lot's taken place in the last couple of hours a lot a lot of a lot of things have happened with regards to that horrible situation the last couple okay a lot in there we're doing very well we have clues that are very strong we could have answers very soon i'm not talking about a search i'm talking about a solution we have things that may come out that could be definitive is there a suspect and he quickly says yeah he's almost as an aside he says yeah things that could be definitive and then he mentions FBI and doj so let's get right to a gym what does that mean what what did you take away from that yeah i'm rocking my brain Megan if i've ever worked the case with the president directly involved himself and i uh there's some big ones i worked in the DC sniper and antiraxial happening in the DC area but i don't remember direct and and we're and we're sort of promises are made i won't call them promises look i think president trump's heart is in the right place he he what the gothry family wants to hear something positive but you got to be careful with creating too high of expectations and i guess that was friday for what you said so we're looking at now 72 hours since he made that statement uh there may be some investigator not happy he made that statement but you know he said it was definitive or things definitive could happen yet he was sort of vague at the same time so is he sometimes investigators you can actually plan sort of leaks if you will to sort of force the hand of of a bad guy whoever they are i mean usually if someone holding someone in custody someone's presently in danger i can't imagine someone reaching out to the president hey could you drop these lines for us but no doubt he's in touch with uh cash putel and bondy they're in touch with the people on this on the in the in the field on the street there and they're and he's echoing something he wants to give the nation something positive to think about and um i i'm not saying he's lying he's not at all there may be things that have been developing but it's a slow burn here and everyone wants to make everything i don't think president trump is lying it i i think president trump was telling the truth i think president trump was excited that he thought we were about to have a breakthrough on this case and i don't think his people would have told him that if it weren't true and he's the one who mentioned fb i and d o j so it could have been either one or both you know it could have been obviously we know the fbi is there on the ground and co-hosted the presser that happened on thursday but they answered to the d o j they're all their work if it comes to something would ultimately be coming to something for the d o j to potentially do something about it so they could be equally informed so who knows but i don't think for one second chat that president trump would have said that if he hadn't been briefed in a way that was promising and that he was feeling like we're getting there the thing that i found most interesting was if i were savanna gothary and i heard that i would pick up the phone in a second and call him he called her last week to tell her whatever you need and i'd say what do you have and then president trump's in a tough spot because maybe he's not ready to reveal that yet no matter who it is and now you're talking to the victim of the crime i don't know but what did you glean from it chat you know make an i agree absolutely with what jim just said i will say this look i am a huge supporter of our president i'm a huge supporter of cash betel and and what the attorney general has been doing but i've got it you know we do know that president trump loves to talk to the media he loves to speak and throw things out there but i i agree with what jim said i agree with what you said he is in constant contact this is such a high profile case he is in constant contact with cash betel and the boots on the ground the american people are heavily invested in this case right now so i think that possibly you know he had information coming in he says in the future we're you know something real soon we're going to hear i don't know i think we have to sit back and wait but he did you know president trump loves to kind of tease people who have answers very soon correct could have answers very soon not talking about a search talking about a solution and and by the way um remember Chad how we found out that they had arrested the guy they said did the pipe bombing he was on fox and friends for a different hit a hit about something else and he was like hey by the way we caught the pipe part like what the man has a way about how he does things and that's what makes him who he is mehgan can i add here there's a term both you and Chad are probably familiar with it called tickle the wire and when you're working at wiretapped a title three as we called in the feds there's a way that you're listening and of course you have to minimize it certain times that they're talking about you know the wives cookie recipes or something as a pose who crime so what do what the agents would do though what i was part of is you do something you have a police car go by the the the suspects house they're they're involved in something it not necessarily a kid mapping like this but they're involved in some kind of bad deeds and you have that where you have uh you know someone knock on the door kind of suspiciously or a letter goes to the out and then you're waiting to see what they say on the phone when this event happens that you the investigator stays and the nickname for it is tickle the wire well okay um do we have a version of that in which the president is serving as the tickle the wire force because i would tell you something uh the tickler he's the tickler i'm not gonna have been called that before but uh but i'll tell you what whoever is involved in this again we go back to we've for revenge for profit if now they're conflated somehow we're completely separate whoever was involved in doing this one probably more people who are involved they may have altered their behavior Friday morning and did something and if maybe the investigators on the ground the boots on the ground as chat say they didn't plan for president trump to make this statement but if nothing else they should have taken advantage of it and let's see who's moving who is someone even very low on the suspect list we have who's made a quick call if we're watching them we're monitoring their phones who's called someone else and maybe hey did you hear what the president said in whatever language potentially and and that could be a clue that the investigators weren't even necessarily a looking for or that you know initiated themselves but then something happened afterwards so uh it's it's a known tactic in law enforcement completely legal this tickle the wire concept usually the wire forces the is a is a is the wire type of a phone line cell cell phone man cell phone man lines whatever also emails well and that could something that could then happen but the other thing i have to say is i i was excited when i heard that because i thought okay they've got somebody they think they know who did it um but then it occurred to me having listened to it now many times he could have been talking about the the ransom letter writer um it could be not the suspect in the kidnapping or the harming of nancy got three it could be they've got the person who's writing the notes let's listen to it one more time and just think tell me what you think about that possibility uh because solving that is important but it might not lead us to the kidnapper it might be two totally different people so just listen to trump again you promised Savannah got three's family the full support of federal law enforcement that the i is now giving a little statement i think we're doing very well or that regard you probably surprise me or that i think we're doing very well very well meeting we have some clues i think that are very strong and i think we could have some answers coming up fairly soon ancient wide search is this a search going to mexico i'm going to talk about it search i'm talking about a solution uh we have some things i think that will maybe come out reasonably soon from doj or fb i or whoever that could be uh yeah it could be definitive yes a lot's taken place in the last couple of hours a lot a lot of things have happened with regard to that horrible situation the last couple of right so Chad i don't know i could be the one yeah Megan let's let's i briefly breach this topic with gem the word solution right it's not what we have a solution uh hear me out for a second in bc right obviously savanna is one of the highest paid news personalities there is for nbc i looked that up this morning last week was the opening ceremonies nbc is hosting opening ceremonies in the lepics they also were the ones that hosted super bowl last night all these viewerships so if this is a solution could this again we we have talked about this but could this be some type of international crime group that's trying to and i'm not saying the nbc is involved at all and i want to make sure that is clear could this be some type of international crime group that is you know trying to disrupt what everything that's going on i mean there's there's a totally different angle on this you know that that could be more than just the the sun and law or just a random maintenance worker again everything's out on the you know there's nothing that's not on the table right now Chad did you did you see the one report saying that reportedly the money that was requested in ransom note number one said now we're being told four million if you pay by Thursday six million if if you pay by Monday USD in us dollars which has some saying why that doesn't sound like an american like when we communicate money figures to one another we don't say USD no we just say you put the dollar sign and then you put the number the numeral and then you you put million or a thousand or whatever your your you know unit of money is so that that could be some small support for this being international and president Trump possibly you know casting a very wide wide web and getting getting some sort of a ring and this because I look at it would the thing about that that's attractive is those are the ones who do kidnappings or you know it's not an american thing from all of our experts it's just not something that americans do but it is something that they do in Latin America 100% and I think that's why nothing's off the table and you know he didn't first say that we could hear something from the PM account of sheriff's office he says we could hear something soon coming from the DOJ or the FBI well and let's face it what are the there is zero chance that that PMO County sheriff is calling president Trump with updates zero like there's just no way that's what's happening Trump gets his information from his cabinet secretaries and his own chiefs people like cash people like Pam those those would be the ones who who would have the information though I really I am told that the FBI is in more of a helping role in this case and that it is the PMO County sheriff who is running heard on this as I say that this just broke via NBC and again you really have to take the NBC news information seriously here because trust me when I tell you they would not want to get out ahead on anything if it hadn't been like blessed by Savannah or if they thought it was going to do anything to compromise the investigation they report the FBI said it has deployed additional intelligence and agent personnel from its Phoenix office and other FBI field offices now to assist in the investigation the agency is also staffing a 24 hour command post with agents who investigate incoming leads and tips members of the cellular analysis survey team or cast are assisting and continue to collect and process digital data as detectives review and analyze information from various sources including banks and social media are Jim I have a question for you about that last piece the cellular analysis survey team so cell phones are everything they've got but they know everything about us these these devices they know where we've been they know who we've talked to they know what what we thought and it did occur to me because since we spent time on the brother-in-law last week that if you if you proceed if you proceed under the theory that the brother-in-law may have been behind this and also is sending the ransom notes that would be near impossible like the heat on that guy right now and all last week is at a fire level so there's no way he's sneaking off to the library to fire off these forms on the local news stations and by the way we're told TMZ also has one of those a get a tip line where you can go and maybe that's why the person chose TMZ not because they watch TMZ but it also has one of those forms where you can put on oh here's a tip TMZ it's Megan Kelly here's my address or my phone number and my tip is whatever so there's zero chance this guy was doing that last week now he might have had an accomplice if he was behind this and of course then there's the other theory we've been actively working on which the two are unrelated whoever took her or hurt her has nothing to do with these notes it's an opportunist as you put it Jim but do you agree with my premise that if we're for pursuing the line of the brother or any one of the family there is zero chance that person was in a position to send ransom notes last week uh mega as we discussed a few times last week whenever a profiler and a behaviorless looks at a crime series of crimes you look at preoffence behavior of course the crime itself post-offence behavior it's one thing trying to determine what an unknown subject unsub as we said in the bureau is uh is doing post-offence behavior changing their disguise leaving the scene sometimes injecting themselves into a crime uh a crime scene calling in false tips or certainly filing media but if you have someone who is within those concentric circles i'm not going to call the brother more suspect but he is someone of course that is being looked at it would be you said zero chance i would say virtually impossible maybe less than zero that he's out there putting these uh a ransom demand uh uh email communications whatever they are multiple ones now uh in that in that regard there's no way he's doing that look whoever this may be and it was a revenge thing that well it was for profit to begin with maybe they're doing that now it was a revenge thing and as i said last week laying out all the options perhaps in someone well let me cover up my tracks by doing this i don't really want the money but let's let the FBI in the sheriff department chase after these people so uh there are multiple avenues here and only what i'm needed was the the kidnap note like other kidnap things that we discussed already this week from Norway to Frank Sinatra Jr and the Bronx and whatever just something that we proved that was proven that the kidnappers are the same people who abducted Mrs Guthrie we just don't have that so far and uh and for the brother he's i don't uh brother and law whatever we want to call him tomaso uh he has to you know he has to be in the suspect well everyone does in that close concentric circle but i would find it he is he is the equivalent of a criminal mastermind and edini if he can in fact you know send off these emails with no one else even knowing that uh in law enforcement how to mention his family go ahead Chad Megan you obviously have you have more of a personal relationship you obviously knows Savannah better than any well you have a different type of relationship with her than we do it would i've spent a lot of time with her personal and professional it would be very hard we know that the bureau and the sheriff's office has likely separated these parties to conduct their interviews with all family members i find it very hard with the last video that was released and them holding hands and all this thing we got her brother who was a fighter pilot i would find it very hard to think that two people if they had any inclination that their sister and brother and law were involved in this case that they would be able to put on some bullshit face you know and act like nothing's wrong and we're you know a close family and and that if they really believe that the the in law let me ask you this Chad i agree i i don't think Savannah suspects her sister at all and i haven't heard anybody report anything about the sister being involved in this in any way other than she's married to the brother-in-law and that report we know of originating with Ashley Bannfield so yes i agree with you but there's been a lot of activity at the sister's home at Annie's home now they there was a search earlier this week then there was a search Saturday night that NBC news again was sure to report this morning was by consent meaning Annie and presumably Tomas the homeowners gave consent but we also haven't seen Tomas and so i'm i don't want to presume without knowing that he's still in good standing with the family we have no idea whether he is like it is a possibility that even Annie is saying oh my god why do they keep searching our house you know is it possible that Tomas was involved i doubt it i don't like i'm just saying the fact that they're sitting there holding hands i i agreed there's no chance to vanish suspect suspect her sister of anything nor is anybody been able to accuse her sister of anything however it doesn't really tell us anything about the brother-in-law Chad yeah it just it would be very confusing and it would be raised a lot of eyebrows if all of a sudden Tomas was involved all this bitcoin gets delivered or cryptocurrency whatever it is gets to him and all of a sudden you know next year there's a lot of family vacations to Turks and K-Cos and a new Lambo sitting here right like you're done you're done they can't trace the bitcoin but eventually when you get the bitcoin you have to you have to cash it in at some point you want to enjoy it and that and that's how they get you because they have like a small circle of suspects and you know you may think you can outweigh the feds but they can outweigh you and uh you know five years from now you suddenly have six million dollars you didn't have and you know you have some working-class job you're in trouble um but here's the thing Jim they keep going back to Anis and Tomas is home and they went back at night and yes it was low key it was three guys and beat up cars it wasn't the full force of the FBI with the gloves and though you know the command you know the way the FBI can burst in I know how the FBI can burst in because my neighbor in my old building got the FBI treatment at five a.m. one day when they arrested him for allegedly being a mini made-off and then I had the misfortune of writing the elevator up with him when he bailed out and I had heard it was all over the news we were in the elevator together and I didn't know what to say to him so he's sitting there with his lawyer going back up to his apartment and I'm sitting there going back up to my apartment and I came up with the following don't let the bastards get you down oh it was it was you it was you it was you said that I'm kidding I wasn't there it was so no it was very awkward I'm like I'm not good in these situations I don't find the right words okay but my point is simply um we we don't know why they keep going back to Annie and Tomas his house and this is where I wanted I've been all weekend I've been wanting to ask you guys about this because I really thought we made some progress on Friday when we really were analyzing the timeline that had been given the day before came up with it was a 40 minute 41 minute time-stint that we think the perpetrator was in the house if you go from 147 when they disconnected the nest cameras to 228 when her pacemaker stopped communicating with the iPhone that was in her house 41 minutes and we spent a lot of time on how why does it take 41 minutes to cat to kidnap an 84 year old woman and is it possible that they that they killed her that that that's what happened in that 41 minute stint but then we got to the point where we just did not think that could be the case because the pacemaker the pacemaker would have shown the cardiac event ending her life if it happened prior to 228 am so that pacemaker is really everything but then over the weekend I got to thinking how much do we really know about the pacemaker like is it possible guys that because like all we know is that she got far enough away from the iPhone that it stopped recording events but like is it possible the police know there there was something catastrophic that happened on that pacemaker prior to 228 they haven't told us anything about her heart or anything about the pacemaker except that it disconnected from the iPhone at 228 am now that they then launched this big thing where they said we think she's still alive and so they they could be lying to us but is it because what to my takeaway watching all these searches was they think she might have been killed at Annie's house that that's one of the possibilities why are they going over there for three hours taking pictures in the night lighting it up with something I don't know there what again this is second time back there when we have been told the crime scene is at is at Nancy's house so they keep going back to Annie's house where she had dinner that night and so what is the actual proof that the mother was delivered back to her home at 947 with the garage door closing two minutes later that night like what is the proof that that actually was Nancy Nancy Guthrie getting delivered back into her garage and what is the proof that there was nothing on the pacemaker you know from any point in the evening up to 228 am yeah proving the negative is always a tough task for in any situation much less criminal investigation and I guess you're right I mean especially with the way the sheriff changed his his his explanation of we know she was dropped off it whatever was 947 and then we know oh the family said they dropped her off at this time we're only going on that eyewitness account from the family members one or more again it's not clear purposely probably so but maybe on the part of of even the family that's speculating there but that there's a lot of questions the pacemaker part and and the the irregular activity that would show I mean they do show and I work cases in recent past more as a consultant than in the FBI especially people these these apple watches that are hooked up to it you know same principle you can actually see when a person dies and it makes a medical examiner's job much easier than just looking at undigested food and issues like that and it's certainly going to add to it so why though would the fact like they think she died at one house or the other Megan and then the family is making these pleas to bring her back it's just it's just it's just so confusing on my part in that regard I agree so confusing so this is this is this is where I went but if you if you trust in the pacemaker and you trust in the fact that the police aren't going to be doing this wild goose chase knowing that the pacemaker showed she died you know earlier in the evening if they think she died you know at eight thirty or nine o'clock that that would explain the search at Annie's house perfectly right because she was at Annie's house at that time but that's not what they're saying they're saying she went back home they're they are engaging in the goose chase so presumably it's not wild and they do believe she was alive when she left the house at 2.28 a.m. So what are they doing at Annie's house why are they back at Annie's and Tomas's for three hours taking pictures Chad is it well think about that I'm thinking about their shoes their boots why is it why is it that Nancy Uber to the house for dinner but didn't Uber back they're saying they drove her back because if she Ubered back we would have a definite interview from whoever that Uber driver was and saying no I dropped her off like you said we're we're solely going off of the family saying we drove her back and we dropped her off because we had the door bet or the you know let's be honest nobody's going to remember the exact time they're basing it off this you know the garage door activation garage door so is it not odd if mom Ubered over for dinner but we drove her back back so and then they mentioned that they were they're playing games as a family that tells me that and they said with the grandkids so we know there's multiple I would find it very hard that you would commit a homicide in front of your own children of their grandmother if they in fact were there and again the pacemaker would presumably shut out that correct that her life ended at well prior to two thirty or two twenty eight in the morning but that suggests to me that that that then it was things inside the house that may be evidentiary so what are they I mean are they looking for clothing that may be reflects mud or time in a water tank yeah they're looking for boots and whatever mud may may be on like what would they be photographing and they did they did remove some evidence they they came out with bags so what and by the way they came out wearing blue gloves does that tell you anything I don't know if like the standard FBI is like a clear glove and the FBI and the blue glove is something you do deal with chemicals I have no idea but they were wearing gloves so obviously they were trying to protect at least against their fingerprints getting all over this place and to me it seems Jim that they were treating it as a potential crime scene everything and every place associated with Nancy Guthrie right now has to be considered a potential crime scene there are multiple crimes whenever this thing is resolved we hope it is obviously inside the house by the front door is a crime scene of Mrs. Guthrie and then the vehicle that was used to transport her we're thinking it was a vehicle of some sort and then if she was being held somewhere or put into a place in the ground or under cover that's yet a third crime scene sometimes people go out and move remains that could be then a fourth crime scene so they're gonna look at so now we're we're not looking outside at this point now we're back at Annie's house and her husband's house they feel they have some basic information that they just want to tie some loose ends and they are doing it and Megan you brought up on Friday or so when I said they really need to get into some more intense interviews perhaps polygraphs well they don't want the lawyer up so that would explain why I get that part of you always have to walk that thin line yeah you don't want to press it too hard so they don't lawyer up that has to be custodial interview within their house of course Miranda doesn't apply there they're not custody so they can do it a lot lower key some friendly type you but hey just a few more questions you know we all remember the famous um um Colombo show but one more question as he's walking out the door but they would do this that's right but they would do this not so much walk out the door we'll coming in the second time we'll be interested to know whether they're announced uh visits or they're set up in advance there um Megan either we're told they're it was consensual that's all well yeah the center yeah but whether they whether the whether the the knock on the door was agreed to and in the past in the you know an hour or two before or something else Megan I like well I don't think they were there I think I think they've moved to a hotel keep going um whether we do it right now or another segment um I I talked to one of the last kid kidnappings ever that occurred in the US one of the last was that Sydney Riso kidnapping uh back in 92 and uh one of the agents now long retired but he walked me through some of the things about that case and I think from context perspective it's very important to look at that case and others and how that in how that played out and because on the fourth day it turns out that Mr. Riso died and yet the husband and wife couple so happens a husband and wife he was former law enforcement um they kept up the uh the facade were like 54 days or so that they were live trying to get the money and the amount they wanted by the way six million dollars today and we're NBC may put some of it up even not just Savannah uh they wanted uh those kidnappers wanted and exon was willing to pay 18 and a half million dollars back in 1992 for the kidnapping the legitimate kidnapping of their executive in which from the first day a letter came in the mail to i think the local police with the exon credit card of Mr. Riso in there so uh those kidnappers really played at that well his newspaper was delivered every day when people used to get newspapers but the kidnappers went out that morning and pulled the newspaper down to the bottom of the driveway pretty big house maybe something like where Mrs. Guthrie lived so he had a walk farther down the driveway to get the newspaper and that way they could jump out the husband and wife and grab him throw him in the back of the van they had to shoot him in the arm to get him the uh under control there then he goes and dies four days later because he had a bad heart but they kept that hidden he wound up his body found in the vine barons of New Jersey 54 days later because a bunch of calls but they were communicating the whole time and the point is it's a very bad situation with that kidnapping i hate to use the word legitimate but it was an actual slacks legitimate real for profit stranger kidnapping all those qualifiers you have to put it in there back in 92 and that's how these these guys worked a lot of miscommunications between the kidnappers and exon and uh and you know so who knows what's been missing in this particular case in terms of communications technologies a little better now but that was just one bizarre case we were talking about in the first hour where you know where is the obvious communication about facts only Nancy would know they they they haven't done it and they haven't done it for a reason and now the second demand doesn't seem to renew the money demand that was only in the first demand but the bitcoin address stands they haven't changed that there's no deposit in it and Jim you're the linguist listen to the the savanna video with the siblings it's a it's a shift i mean they sounded very grim in their first two videos don't get me wrong but there's definitely a shift tonally the first one was like she's got grandchildren they cover her in kisses she's spunky she's fun you know mama we're looking for you the whole world is looking for you mommy and then this here it is again we received your message and we understand we beg you now to return our mother to us so that we can celebrate with her this is the only way we will have peace this is very valuable to us and we will pay a lot in there Jim you've got so that we can celebrate with her also now they're begging we beg you to return our mother and then the this is the only way we will have peace this is very valuable to us and we will pay the peace is very valuable to us and we will pay return her so that we can celebrate with her what does that mean to you yeah there's a lot in there i much prefer to be analyzing the communications from the alleged kidnappers but but but we'll stick with this for now because we don't have any access to that yeah it almost sounds like and and and Chad knows this very well we both been there when your investigation of some sort of a missing person it could even be a boat accident or something it goes from rescue to recovery and it almost sounds like the family members have morphed into that category why they felt they wanted to put a message out because they want to celebrate that not in the way we look at celebration with a birthday party or surprise party saying goodbye perhaps a celebration of life is very common term nowadays and perhaps that's what they're seeing just tell us where she is we'll pay you this sum whatever if it's six million as we're hearing usd which again makes it even more interesting as you pointed out earlier they're they're willing to do that but there is a somberness about them there is like they know something perhaps what president trump was referencing on friday somehow that information came to fruition and it was passed to the family because all he did is the term was solution and of course i picked up on when president trump said it was reasonably soon what does that mean hours days weeks that can be you know clarified in many different ways so it does seem to have a different there does seem to be a different persona collective persona reflected in that last message and I I just hope they're wrong about it I still want to think she's alive I still want to think the investigators are looking to rescue her or at least have her released and I'm assuming the task force is bifurcated those looking at everyone around Mrs. Guthrie you know housekeepers all the people we talked about before than the other side of the team looking at a possible kidnapping I'm hoping they're bringing the CIA in and NSA in terms of you can put anonymizers on your computers you're pretty good for local law enforcement even federal but I'd like to think that our system our federal government you know the spooks out there the spies know how to truly penetrate a you know an anonymizing type system and take this back to eastern europe or sub-Sahara africa wherever these demands are coming from and i'm not giving away here the the NSA does not mess around that is the group that knows everything and they do know what phone what cell phones for sure we're in this area on last Saturday night between the hours of eight and three a.m. they I guarantee you they know that and that was probably one of the first things they did once the feds got involved in this real quick I'll go to chat but there's domestic and there's foreign FBI domestic CIA foreign NSA etc. Trump said no you guys work together we want this information out there yeah I I completely agree obviously we the the three-letter agencies listen we we found Osama bin Laden right through and we had the technology to find the most well-known violent terrorists in the world but if this video you know is more of just return the body we want our mom we want to have a celebration of life why do we still have this five p.m. or five thirty p.m. deadline of monday if for some reason if one of the letters said that and then they are giving us this intel I mean I get it not everything's rosy and you know it's it's it's kind of confusing to me well and would you would you recommend they pay here we are it's almost two o'clock eastern they say we will pay it's very valuable to us we will pay I mean other the implicit thought is if you give her back to us we will pay the question is which comes first but they are very aware this is not an unsophisticated group I mean Savannah I definitely Savannah's not not unsophisticated they're very well aware that this could and almost certainly would be fleshing six million dollars down the drain that you will never see again that some con man will take and leave and they might be back next week with more bites of the apple I mean you know you could you could do this game in perpetuity like you waited too long whatever it because you got the feds involved the price went up we want another four you know it's just like I have to say I don't think I'd pay it if I were in this chair I who can say right I agree like we are not in that we are not in that position to to know what that feels like if if my mother and obviously we keep talking about these agencies whether it is the the CIA NSA the Bureau whoever I don't know is our is their technology are there ways they're we have some smart people out here to say okay we will pay we we want her and there's some way for these agencies to track the money in some type of covert or clandestine way there's got to be I don't think so I don't think so I think Bitcoin once that's gone it's gone forever unfortunately it was funny you know I've been talking to my mom a lot this week for obvious reasons and she made me laugh because I was I was telling her all the terrible things she should do got forbid she got kidnapped you know we had to make light out of it because it's gallows humor and you got to do it and she said she's all set my mom's all set she said she's got her Louisville slugger and she's got her makeup foundation right next to her lazy boy so she she said she wants to look good but she's ready to fight you know and I laugh you know I'm so lucky that my mom's there and she and I can laugh about this and you know it's it's a coping mechanism but I am think I look at those grim faces on Savannah and her siblings and it's like there's no laughing there's no good outcome at this point you can tell they don't believe she's alive anymore but like they can't be sure because of this torture with the notes it's like I feel like if the notes hadn't come by this point they'd probably be accepting someone did something terrible to mom but like at some points of Anna she's got young kids of her own she's got to go back home she has to take care of her children you know she has obviously a career back year too that's that's secondary but how long can this go on Chad you know it's like at what point is even law enforcement look at the siblings and say we've done all we can do it's it's very hard to look at the family and say it's officially now cold that's and that's one thing we have not discussed right this could very well turn in to be a cold case and there obviously every agency has cold case units that it's not like this is going to you know be pushed to the batburners to high profile of a case people are going to continue to work on this case non-stop I'll tell you what you know you bring it up the conversations you had with your mom I'll tell you the sad part of all this we live in a sick world and there are sick people I am very afraid all the publicity this is got we are going to start seeing some type of copycat attacks oh god which it's so awful and dark but yeah what could I mean there is a report in the Daily Mail that they've NBC is amped up security for all of its anchors and you know we were asking like how about their family members because sadly this is not if this is an attack on Savannah Guthrie then then all the family members are in jeopardy too you hate to even say it out loud Jim but yeah obviously everybody who's in the public eye has to consider this right now yeah and if the precedent is established in this case we pay money with no proof of life and if the mother's released okay that's one thing but if she's not going to be with no proof of kidnappers they know the rules I mean they've obviously advanced with technology Bitcoin is opposed to you know bowling ball bags of 20 dollar bills but you know those types of things have shifted and how communication are rendered but they know that you have to you have to follow through on your plan or it's never going to work again yeah and that's why it's that they have an obligation too in a way yes it's it's the the criminal code all right we'll hand we'll play this game with you I mean game in a very you know very basic form definition but you know you got to play by the rules here too and if money goes out for her and she is released that's a bad precedent that money goes out and she's never released never found that's a bad precedent also for future behavior on the parts of these criminal gangs either you know internal to the US or external to to the US in which they could just go along and do this this would be such an easy payday for this group whoever they are of six million if not more whatever it is today if this deadline isn't bad so it's I hate to think the pressmen's been created when for you know almost a hundred years now you you can count on almost literally one hand these exact type of kidnappings and now with all the publicity this is getting it may just happen again and we all have to be careful that's one of the things like our friend Billy Bush who I love he's awesome he also worked in NBC for a very short stand before they blew him up he was saying he thinks NBC should pay the money I mean this is a rounding year for yeah sure that's very clear but there but there are strategic considerations in not paying and you just touched on him Jim you know it's like NBC has a lot of executives and talent it employs with a lot of family members who are not behind the fortification that the main star is and you know does forking over six million by out of NBC coffers jeopardize or endanger other people there or their family you know or even at other news organizations like the whole thing is very complicated it's complicated for Savannah and our siblings too you know it's like they I'm sure they're well aware the odds are even if they put this six million dollars in there by five p.m. today they're never going to see their mom again you know that they're not dumb but but the thing that must be governing them in the dark moments is but there's a chance there's a chance you know like I can see the the discussions Chad like they knew about the watch it was so specific you know they did know about the flood light and how did they see that it was on the exterior of the house but it wasn't exactly prominent I don't know they're you know there's it's I guarantee you they don't well I guess I shouldn't guarantee I assume they do not think it was anyone in their family including the brother-in-law etc and there have been enough trickles outside of the family that they they can go with that credibly you know the white van that was seen in the neighborhood over the weekend a neighbor reported that Nancy got through his roof looked too white I guess these Tucson natives all know what the roofs of their houses look like and they're usually pretty dirty and she was like that shows me she must have had it recently painted so look into whether there were painters there I see at another contractor you maybe didn't think about you probably thought about the the weekly gardener or the whoever but a made service that's good okay yes they're probably looking into that lead right now they found the camera forgot to mention that in the whole two hours today they found a camera a third camera on the roof of the house Chad when they searched on Friday night like how do we not know about that okay we didn't know about that that that seems like an important one I guarantee she probably wasn't paying for that one to record either because she wasn't I guess I shouldn't guarantee because again because there was something online with Nancy got three asking around about what kind of a camera is best to record wildlife with and so it is possible for that one if that was her required wildlife camera you know that the wildlife comes out at night so maybe she did actually pay for that one to record I don't know but my point is simply all this stuff will give you plenty and should give us plenty of fodder to go down the lane of it was a stranger abduction the the ransoms are real and for six million dollars we can know yeah I mean going back to the roof like that's that's gem will tell you this is like basic police 101 right plenty of times suspects have left and in a panic toss something on top of a roof I'm not sure this was the first time it appears like it was the first time they actually got on the roof and started searching but I do think the sheriff has admitted he kind of dropped the ball on some of this investigation delaying some of these things especially getting their pilot up and you know not reaching out to the bureau for a little bit of time I think you know but I want to be careful I don't it's easy for us sitting back here to armchair quarterback the sheriff's actions but this is not a normal type of case they are faced with you know frequent nobody in the country is faced with this frequently so I do want to give a little bit of grace I'm not going to give grace to him going to the basketball game that's for sure yeah I want to ask another question guys that I've been meaning to ask why did they search Nancy got threes home sorry Annie got threes home at night Brian Enten spoke with a former Pima County sheriff's deputy who said typically they do it after they learn the information that's relevant like someone said something that they said oh shoot we should go over there and check that out and it could just be a matter of they learned something interesting at 6 p.m. that night they called Annie and Tomas and said do we have your permission to go to the house and they said sure go for it so it could be that simple but does it strike you as odd because in the darkness is that the best time to go in and the media is there 24 seven they they couldn't this couldn't have been about avoiding the media because they know as well as we do they're camped out there and you're gonna get you're gonna get caught doing what you're doing now maybe it's harder for the media to see in but the media saw the cameras going off you can see this video we're playing here they saw the flash is going off they knew that they were doing investigative police work in their gym making am I correct in assuming this was Saturday night six o'clock seven o'clock that they were in these house so that would yeah it ended I think 10 it was 7 30 to 10 30 or about there so coincidentally or not planned or not one week to the hour they went back to the house when ostensibly Mrs. Guthrie was last seen or at least spent time with family members there and the agents just wanted to see the outside the lighting elements I mean they may have been searching for other things too obviously DNA of Mrs. Guthrie of Nancy or certainly fingerprints would mean anything because she's there all the time so they just perhaps wanted to go back the exact week after it happened just like I'm hoping there were road stops out there around two in the morning through 6 a.m. Sunday morning in that area one week after the fact so it could be a very practical reason or it could be more it's a very isolated that we don't know about stand by there's news breaking on the case I think Chad's got to run James gonna stay with us Chad if you can stay you're welcome to stay too and we will be right back with more with the guys you know pure talks favorite holiday it's president's day because they believe wireless service should cost you only a couple of presidents just a Jackson and a Lincoln to be exact for just 25 bucks a month peer talk gives you unlimited talk text and plenty of data now compared that to big wireless they'd rather celebrate Benjamin Franklin day so they can charge your family hundreds every month that's not right you deserve better per talk is an American wireless company who supports our veterans and invests in a US only customer service team so when you call you're talking to someone right here at home pure talk uses the same towers as the big carriers so enjoy superior 5G coverage without the inflated price just 25 bucks a month for talk text and plenty of data no contract no cancellation fee what are you waiting for just dial pound 250 and say keyword Megan Kelly and you will get 50% off your first month again dial pound 250 and say Megan Kelly to make the switch to your talk 111 and on the series XM Jim and Chad are back with me guys two things just in NBC's Kelly O'Donnell just reporting that president Trump has been quote closely following the Guthrie investigation and quote receiving frequent updates and quote citing Caroline levitt who did not hold a press briefing so we're not totally sure maybe she just reached out to her directly he's been closely following it and he's been receiving frequent updates left unsaid is from whom exactly because that appears to be the person that told him that other stuff Trump would not come out there and just say all that stuff about you know we're we're close we're doing very well we have clues that are very strong could have answers very soon not regarding a search but regarding a solution we have things that may come out could be definitive reasonably soon is there a suspect he says yeah but it's a passing sort of quick exchange so I'm not 100% sure he meant to say there's a suspect in any event that's the latest from the White House and now the Daily Mail just dropping this piece as we signed off from the two o'clock hour and there's something in here that's relevant to something we've been discussing the headline of the piece is anguished Savannah got three rushes to 1.2 million dollar desert hideaway amid FBI search at sister Annie's home and as 5 p.m. ransom deadline mooms and it's all about how she her brother her sister and they say her brother law have moved into this mansion which is an agitated community which is good as they wait this thing out and we'll refrain from giving any of the other details of where they're staying since it's unnecessary but almost as a throwaway in here you guys the Daily Mail which is the one that broke the news that she wasn't attending church in person that she was Nancy got three was attending it online via a live stream that was not visible to the congregants leaving us all to wonder how would the family have been alerted that she wasn't at church answers its own question in here without really calling attention to the fact that they've solved a mystery of their own creation they write they're going through the timeline of the night in question her pacemaker disconnected from an app on her phone suggesting she had moved out of range and then they write the alarm was not raised until the following day when Nancy failed to join a group of friends who had been due to watch an online service at St Andrews Presbyterian Church together that morning 11 at 11.56 a.m. Nancy's family arrived to her home and so on so that if that's true that she wasn't going I mean it's kind of odd she wasn't going to church since covid presumably because of the germ factor I don't know but she was gathering with friends to watch the church like if you gather with the for I don't whatever that that may have been her habit if that's true then it would explain how things went down that morning but it would not clear up the discrepancy in the timing as the police changed the timeline dramatically at that Thursday presser you know Nano's was all over the new meat news media saying that the family had called had arrived at the house around 11 11 10 and didn't call them until 11.57 I sorry just afternoon and he was like I took him an hour to look for her and then at that presser he just completely changed it to it only took him seven minutes to call us they arrived at 11.57 and they called it four after that has not been explained but if that's true about her watching generally the online service with friends and she didn't show up to the friend group that would explain it I think okay but now I want to shift to discussing what they were searching you guys they went to the back of the property Nancy's property and they removed this we're calling it a manhole cover because that's what it looks like and they shoved like some long pole down there we believe it might have been a water tank of some sort because it doesn't look like a septic tank given how casual the guy is he's not dressed in a mask or anything and they we reportedly put a metal detector down there so what what do you think is happening here Chad? Yeah I think first of all with the metal detector aspect they're going to see if any type of you know weapon was disregarded into this area I think that's a mixture of a weapon or also looking for a body listen we we do have confirmation that there are agencies out there conducting grid searches now I did I think I asked on Friday or might have been yesterday with a with a team of people we were discussing this they said there's not a lot of grid searching going on right there in that immediate area I find that very interesting now granted I've pulled this location up on a map I've looked at the topography of it and we do see we we have seen some maps being attached to vehicles I would assume that there would be an intense grid search going on and if there's not an intense grid search going on it makes me believe that the bureau is truly believing she is not in that immediate area but good police work I would still I'm not trusting these kidnappers I'm still going to conduct a grid search you know of all over that area I'm going to put guys on horseback I'm going to have board tack come in because they are very good at working in that type of terrain but it would be interesting Megan you know I know you've got some of your team that should be arriving pretty soon so I would love to know what it looks like around the area of that presence or is there you know boots on the ground searches being conducted in that immediate vicinity and also what we did here on Saturday night that they did a grid search they used that term grid search Saturday night over at Nancy's property you know we talked about the search at Annie's property but at Nancy's property they had a grid search going as well we were told well and Chad they also had these maps laid out like on the side of their vehicles like the side of a Jeep or an SUV showing a here a pickup truck and can't quite see it from here but it's it's like it's the neighborhood it's like the the streets of this neighborhood and obviously they're very interested in I mean I don't know what they're searching for is it is it a weapon is it Nancy well I would have a lot better direction on this Megan if we also knew if have we seen dogs on the ground are we using butt bloodhounds are we using cadaver dogs are we using patrol dogs that or that can conduct article searches there you know canines can I can give them a command and anything with human odor on it whether it's a car key you know evidence can be found by canines these are all questions and look we've had drones up news drones up we've had news helicopters up I have not seen many dogs being deployed out in that area but again I'm not there these are questions that I would love to know I heard a former FBI agent speaking with with Brian over the weekend saying obviously the animal factor is very dark to consider but you do have to consider it because they they gave up the search and rescue within 24 hours and so if God forbid Nancy were killed and left out in that desert you know anything could have happened to her by now and and with it if her remains are gone so is evidence but this FBI agent Jim was talking about how the FBI would have her as a matter of course if they're searching an area like this like in the desert they would gather animal scat meaning like feces and they would examine it for bones and human hair not all of which can be digested even by an animal so like the game is not necessarily over if God forbid you're trying to find a murder victim and the animals have gotten to this person before the searchers have I know this is all extremely macabre but this is what guys like you have to think about yeah and I'm familiar with research done on body farms which people donate their bodies and academics and law enforcement they put the bodies out in various types of terrains underground above ground cold warm with animals you know with insects and a lot of different things has been learned have been learned over the last few years last you know quarter of a century really since I know it's been going on so they are very we can you just explain that are you saying that like somebody who instead of donating their body to science to be like a cadaver in a med school they donate it to a body farm so people can just see what happens to it if you put out in the wilderness there's video cameras they put on the bodies and and they tested every day temperature I mean all kinds of factors so we know strictly for these types of operations and none of us none of us want to go here today about Nancy Guthrie but these are factors that you know they're flying other teams you know into this task force area in Tucson and that there's a hey this is our specialty let us go out and do this so of course are looking into the weather with their well septic tanks whatever they are with different types of devices and Megan it was early last week I think I said to you I'm hoping they really check the property uh Mrs Guthrie including the pool room where the filter chlorinated is kept in the porth by extension any type of a well inner property water tower in the area anything like that so uh this is very logical they have to do I'll say and Chad can relate to this I'm sure uh no investigator out there nor is our supervisor when we'll just say Mrs Guthrie is found wants to be the one say why didn't you check there didn't we tell you to do that or is not you know uh forensics 101 or you know grid search 101 so they want to make sure they're covering every track and the but not just for that reason because they want to get it done right and they've had a week now over a week and they're now looking at every single option that they may not have explored and quite frankly they should go over it again I've been in cases where local law enforcement academies you know the recruits they could be in for a few weeks or or two months they're emptied and maybe 40 or 60 people are not getting as many recruits anymore as they used to but certainly they would bring them in bust them in they're the ones doing these crime scene grid searches and and they really should be doing that every single square inch of that area should be searched search warrants or not uh if they're needed to uh to look for shallow grades and there's just ground penetrating radar uh that's out there and that that's very sophisticated you can find movement of the earth you can see that from above uh so there's all kinds of things are going to do and that's why I said this team is it's bifurcated we're working the kidnapping we're working that someone else just took her and dropped her off and of course there are sub teams on each one of those trying to put this together new people are flying in um from all different types of agencies they come up with ideas sure nothing to work so far let's go out and check this place and that's kind of what they're doing there i mean i i hate to say it but the pacemaker would still be there you know i mean the pacemaker is not something that an animal would consume i'm sorry to get so graphic it's just as we see them doing grid search after grid search in her backyard i think we all know exactly what they're looking for one of two things clues from the kidnapper slash perpetrator and or Nancy and her remains and you know i mean that's why you do a grid search generally and you're looking for evidence and i saw them put that metal detector down there Chad and all i could think was would it detect a pacemaker would a metal detector and i actually just did a quick search online it was like well it might it actually might and they they give people who have pacemakers sounds like kind of conflicting advice about going through magnetometer like maybe just tell people who are going to want you that you have it they tell them it's not going to hurt you if you get wanded but like you don't want the the wand to linger in front of the pacemaker for too long because it kind of changed the wavelength or whatever but it's possible that they were they were hoping to catch you know that piece of metal and maybe that could be an identifying god forbid the worst has happened an identifying thing that is left behind sorry again it's dark but that's the story that we're covering um the other thing they seized Chad and maybe it's just what you guys are saying was now they seized Nancy's car now i mean literally a week after she went missing but there's not as far as i know even an allegation that she drove this car during any of the relevant time frame well not just that we also know that why didn't you she may have had a car but we also know we're dealing with an eight four year old lady with a lot of health conditions did you know questions i would have that we haven't heard is does she still actively drive and if she does you know is it possible you know that she was out driving and there is trace DNA from someone that was in her car whether it is a worker or home again going back to home health care or someone else i think that that is just good police work to to do a complete analysis of that vehicle as well um and see if there were any fibers in that vehicle um again now we have to do like you can have a situation where they were dragging her out of the house and they brushed up against the car for a second while we get right yeah like it in other words why wouldn't you check it why wouldn't why wouldn't you take that down to the lab and swab every inch of it wait that just reminded me think about the timeline friday night we saw video courtesy of fox news of them on the rooftop finding that that camera there is 100% a camera on the top of nancy got threes roof and earlier that week it had been circulating online and i had seen it myself there was a post by nancy got threes online um i don't know a while a back it was a couple years ago saying what's the best camera for watching wildlife and various people weighed in she she wanted to see like the coyotes in her backyard who again are mostly nighttime creatures so it is possible you guys that that camera did have some sort of a recording capacity to it clearly the pima county sheriff missed it because he wouldn't have left a camera sitting there from sunday to friday if he knew about it and it does it does get kind of interesting that it was friday night that president trump later made his comments um didn't he just can we just hear it one more time forgive me for playing it one more time come here trump one more time this is a right you promised to man a got threes family the full support of federal law enforcement that the i is now giving a little statement i think we're doing very well or that reggaard you probably surprised me or that i think we're doing very well very well meeting we have some clues i think that are very strong and i think we could have some answers coming up fairly soon ancient wide searched is this a search going to mexico i'm gonna about a search i'm talking about a solution we have some things i think that will maybe come out reasonably soon from doj or fb i or whoever that could be uh yeah it could be definitive yes a lot's taken place in the last couple of hours a lot a lot of a lot of things have happened with regard to that horrible situation the last couple of there it is last couple of hours i he could be talking about that camera gem what if that camera did have a recording function and they actually have somebody on tape who also might not have banked on the rooftop cam yeah and again i'd want time stamps on when the camera was found and when you said it was Friday night that the president made that statement uh we're looking it up right now and the camera was found those second daylighters agents up there uh so that could be an important fact not just that the camera was found i don't think president trump would stay something oh they found one extra camera but there was some kind of a recording aspect to it and boy i neither chad nor i i don't think we said anything really negative about law enforcement but somehow they missed this camera for the first five days or so that's not that that's not a good sign especially if it has reporting capabilities you know in the cloud somewhere either way the thing wasn't smashed even even had a thumb drive in some sort depending how they work but yeah you don't get these things for wildlife you just see them in real time maybe you could unnotice on your phone and oh look a little coyote out there but you want to be able to wake up in the morning and see what the heck happened with all the critters you know overnight so it would only make sense it's weird that your doorbell camera wouldn't have reporting capabilities maybe not so weird that the one on top of the house right by the front door looks like wood and boy what a treasure trove of recorded evidence that could be so it'd be nice to be nice to see that you know chad one of the oddities of that though is why wouldn't the family have told law enforcement she's got a camera on the roof did you get that one she loved it she loved to watch the wildlife you know or and maybe even who knows like it could have been a family member who installed it I mean in my family if something's getting installed in my mom's house it's either my brother our handyman or the service provider who brought it you know so it's like it's a small circle of people who would would have done it well I think too in critical situations general being the behavior guy would bet we all handle stress and trauma differently and so at this time frame your mother's missing is it possible they didn't even think about that camera up top with everything that's going on no that's not possible like I just that's not possible like if your mother's missing it is critical that you account for every video device that could possibly have caught her abduction for authorities like I agree but couldn't could it possibly explanation is they didn't know about it correct it's possible they didn't know about it maybe she just had it done the service provider put it up there and she never discussed it with anybody and a lot of these these wildlife cameras at least the ones look I'm a hunter so I'm basing this off the cameras that I put out in the woods to see wildlife I have an app and if I don't pay the subscription I'm not getting the photos in a file sit to that app but all of my cameras all those cameras on on the wildlife side type of you know trail cameras do have an SD card in them that can be removed I do know that for a 100% back I'm not saying that's what type of camera was utilized but if it was most of these cameras even if she did not have a subscription most of these cameras have some type of SD card inside of them that I mean that's really interesting even if it weren't the camera it does make you wonder what what did president learn on Friday president Trump learned we've learned in the past couple of hours the presser was on Thursday the when did the second note come was it Friday you guys yes it was Friday second second note came on Friday it's possible that person again because we're not sure if president Trump was referring to finding the suspect who hurt Nancy or the notes the person behind the notes maybe the person screwed up maybe there was some identifying information on the second note that he was referring to then because that timing also dovetails and we're trying to figure out the exact timing of the fox video of them finding the camera and president Trump's remarks hold on a second the fox post about the agent pulling the wired device from the roof was posted at 8.37 pm okay but that's Eastern so that would have been 6.37 pm Tucson time and do we know okay the gaggle with president Trump began at 726 on Air Force one Eastern time so that was before Fox News posted it so maybe but I don't know that doesn't Fox Trump's not getting his information on what's happening in this case from Fox News he's getting it clearly from DOJ or FBI and who knows maybe they did maybe they had already you know you get that you're going to look in two seconds you're going to take that as whatever you call that the usb card you're going to stick it in a laptop on site to see if you can see something who knows so there's that possibility and there's also possibility that they were able to identify something off of the note that was sent on Friday but something appears to have broken on Friday that got the president excited about you know the possibility of solving this case Brian engine reported Friday that Iran some message although now we know it wasn't he reported at 6.20 pm again law enforcement is going to know about all this long before we do so that came at 6.20 the president began his gaggle on Air Force one at 7.26 and the Fox post about the agent pulling the wire device from the roof was 8.37 pm but again we don't know when that actually happened we just know that they did a post about it I'll tell you one thing that I find very I'm very very do you want to handle that one thing I find very interesting and I may be looking into this too much but it is now confirmed that cat cat Patel will be in Tucson so you're saying it is it is confirmed that cash Patel will be in Tucson tomorrow so could this be you know is this already just a planned trip that he had to come out there or are we going to have a good presser tomorrow with some updated intelligence or information I have a question about the cash Patel thing but let me just might do you have the message Steve can you send it to me it was 2021 that Nancy was looking for a camera so she could watch outdoor wildlife which is not as great as it being like 2023 or 2024 you know that the bloom comes off the rows on that kind of thing and maybe you'll let the subscription lapse and you know maybe if you first had a recording service by year five or four you're kind of like I'm not that not that into it last week there was a report that cash was going out to Tucson and then they said no that's not right but they said he is coming next week and they said but it's pre planned I know I got I got some doubts about it Jim I like it just so happens that the FBI director is going to Tucson Arizona of all places I mean it's a border town but that's not really the FBI's purview I don't know I've got my doubts do you think something's something may be a foot I want to be careful about speculation in that regard I mean I was on Unibond task force director free showed up at least once I'm it's the only time I actually ever met him close up and other directors want to give support to long-ranging and long-term investigations Unibond was that this is only you know nine days or so now so but nonetheless he wants to come out he seems to be like a hands-on sort of director and I support how he's doing that at least in the Charlie Kirk matter he did put something out a little bit premature but I don't think he's done that since then so he's been very careful and if he did tell president Trump something and then president Trump put that statement out I'd like to think they had something but of course what is it probably wasn't a body being found because it's found able to be told that right away it has to something to do with the communications perhaps the camera information on it and perhaps they could take it to a lab and they could do some special work with it to recover what was in there if it's only that SD card that child was talking about look they could be working overseas with some of our partners and again I'm not ruling out that these extortionists will call them that now if they're not really the kidnappers which is very possible they're not you know they have some countries over there and their intelligence ages looking at some at some facilities some houses not that Mrs. Guthrie is there by any stretch but at least looking at the people running this part of it and and going from there so there's someone and maybe cash but tell us something to say about that next day or two but that's the only kind of break they're looking for right now that stuff's all secondary be great to arrest those guys but we really want to find Mrs. Guthrie hopefully live but the family just wants back to do that celebration that they talked about but of course there'll be a celebration at life at this point well we'll know soon enough whether cash is going out there for this case and has something to say obviously you know that won't be a secret but again I think that the FBI is in a backseat role on this even though they are the ones who arrested the fake the for sure fake ransom demander you know the one who was harassing the family via text message they did arrest that guy here's here's the tweet you guys are it's not a tweet I think if she posted on reddit or forum November 25th what was this Steve next door November 25th 2021 she posted quote I'm thinking about buying ring or nest security slash doorbell camera any suggestions which has the best camera interested in seeing animal activity at night so that was 2021 we know for a fact she did get to nest security cameras and she appears to have gotten a third camera and it is possible that this case will all come down to that guys thank you to be continued the best time tomorrow we'll know what the family decided to do on the agonizing decision about a six million dollar ransom where there's been no proof of life say a prayer for them Chad thank you Jim you as well and thanks to all of you for listening and and tuning in we did not get to the Super Bowl but I'm pretty sure you're not depending on me for your sports news I do have some thoughts on the absurdity of bad bunny just had a very very feisty argument with Pierce Morgan on his show about bad bunny whom he defended I did not and we will get into that tomorrow we have Andrew Klaven here and we're going to bring our guys back to for any developments in this case so we'll have time for some other news as well thank you all and lots of levels eat them all thanks for listening to the Megan Kelly show no BS no agenda and no fear