532: Economic Warfare. The Power of Business In America. Sam Rogers, Joe Cruz, Steve Simar.

This is Jocko Podcast number 532. And I talk often about obviously about the military and what the military does and the strength of the military, but there's another strength and another force in the world that is equally if not even more important and stronger. And that is economic force. And one of the most important type of economic force in the world is Americans. And one of the most important economic forces in America is small businesses. Small businesses are hugely impactful to the economy in America. They're what drive the economy in America, which brings us to our guests for today, three gentlemen from vastly different backgrounds who have built and are continuing to grow an American company. And this company is called Symmetry Sauna. And I met these guys as we were building out the new gym here at Victory MMA, which is where we're sitting right now. The new gym at Victory MMA, we had a fire, which incidentally was caused by our old sauna. So we didn't want to get that old sauna. We wanted a brand new sauna and we searched around to find who is making the best saunas in the in the country. And really, in my opinion, the best saunas in the world. And we ended up with Symmetry Sauna. And so once we brought them in and I saw what they were doing, building business, creating jobs, and basically getting after it, which is a huge part of what I like. So Joe Cruz, Sam Rogers, and Steve Seymour, the leaders of Symmetry Sauna. Thanks for joining us, fellas. Thank you. Thanks, John. Yeah. Yeah. That sauna looks good, doesn't it? It looks really good. Yeah. The sauna is a beautiful sauna. That is what you guys do is build these amazing custom saunas. And I know you're expanding right now and doing even more than that, but really impressed with what you guys did here. Both the men's sauna and the women's sauna is actually two saunas here that you guys built. And they're both, what's up with the salt walls? What's that all about? Well, you want to go? There is, there are health benefits to Himalayan sea salt when it ionizes at heat, good respiratory benefit, but we're always honest with our clients. They're beautiful. They're more than anything. It's aesthetics in it. And here's kind of the philosophy is why do we build such beautiful saunas? Because people will use a more beautiful sauna much more often than they'll use that shabby cedar box in the backyard. So if we build it beautiful, people want to go in it every day. And that's the whole goal. Yeah. No, they, the salt walls, they definitely, well, they got like a, like a warm glow to them because they're backlit and yeah, they're very inviting. Yeah, that's it right there. So what you had some kind of something you want to give me? Was that what you were saying? Yeah. So I'm a father, three kids, but I've got this, the kid in the middle, 10 year old girl, Jiu Jitsu killer, but she also is kind of an old soul. She likes to sew and crochet. And she, the night before I flew down here, she came running out, dad, dad, dad, I made something for Jaco. Do you promise to give it to him? I was like, what is it? So she showed me and I was like, I think Jaco is going to love that. So this is from my daughter, Talia. She crocheted you a chicken. A chicken. Yeah. And it's a beautiful chicken. It's kind of a little bit of a heart shaped chicken. There you go. She, yeah. What's her name? Her name is Talia. Talia. Well, Talia, this is definitely the coolest chicken that I've ever owned. Nice. Black eyes. What is this pink little comb on the head? Yeah. That's an amazing piece of, you know, a chicken. Yeah. So it's a chicken, but let's face it, it looks like it may have been the forefathers of the chicken nugget. Like it looks like this thing would give birth to chicken nuggets. So thank you very much, Talia. Appreciate it. This will stay with me for a long time. She'll be stoked. I will have to protect it from my dog. My dog will definitely think that this chicken is amazing looking and try and eat it. So I'll keep it safe, Talia. Thank you. All right, so let's get a little bit of background from you guys just quickly, like how you guys grew up and then we'll kind of talk about how you guys got linked up. Where do you guys want to start? Who goes first? I'll start. Let's hear it. Yeah. I grew up a small white boy in Montana. Where in Montana? Outside of Great Falls. About 100 acres of land. Nice. And just a good life. Two sisters, mom and dad, all this land, horses. I basically grew up on a horse with a 22 rifle and a fishing pole just like Huckleberry Finn. Living the dream. And I'll tell one quick story. I told my dad, I would tell on here. So when he was 17, he joined the Navy. Nice. And when he went to the Naval recruiting, he said, if I sign up, can I be a frogman? And so this was before Navy Seals, right? And the recruiter said, if you can make it through the training, you can be a frogman. So he signed on the dotted line at 17. And it was like a three year tour. So he came out here actually and did training on Coronado. But as soon as they saw him, they were like, you can't be a frogman. He's like, they promised me I'd get a shot. And they said, no, you're nearsighted. You can't be a frogman. So anyway, he became a he worked on the radios for Blue Angels and the fighter jets. But anyway, he wanted you to know that he served in the Navy. Well, and he wanted to be a frogman. But yeah, so then somehow till the real quick story, somehow I was always in love with sports. That's kind of all I cared about. And my first sport was basketball. But they didn't have men's volleyball where I came from. But when I got into college, I started playing volleyball. And I got very addicted to this thing, eventually moved to San Diego to try to play professional beach volleyball and dabbled in that I called myself a bottom feeder, you know, played a lot of professional tournaments. But I spent way more money than I ever earned. But it was a good experience. It gave me a lot of confidence in life that if you just put your mind to something, you can probably do go a lot farther than you think you could. And so hold on to that experience and in business and everything else we do and have sort of become delusional from that. I kind of feel like if you decide to do it and determine I'm just going to do it and won't be stopped, it's pretty amazing what can happen. So and you know, met these guys along the way and here we are. How you've been, how are you feeding your family before symmetry? What did you do for work? So I started owned and operated a residential painting company here in San Diego for 17 years. And that company's still going. I don't have much to do with the day to day anymore, but it's still going and did that. And then what else? Yeah, the other the other thing people might be interested or not is, you know, bow hunting. Bow hunting is another driving force in my life is every September chasing elk in the mountains of Montana, Idaho, Wyoming, wherever, wherever I end up. And that's a huge one for me. That's the addiction right there. Oh man, that's a good one. Awesome. And what about you, Steve? I grew up at West Point in New York. My dad was a graduate and I came back as a football coach. So I grew up as the cord boy on the sideline. And my dad told me if I went to West Point, he'd buy me a car, but I had to go skiing. So I went to Montana State University and skied a lot. And from there, when at the youth ministry, I met Sam playing volleyball in Montana in the 90s. There was people playing volleyball in Montana. In the grass, there's not maybe sand there, but in San was the man in the 90s. There was about 30 guys in Montana who were unbelievable volleyball players from all over the world. It was a pretty good scene. I was not one of them. Yeah. Steve was good. I was a bottom feeder. I used to play in my khaki shorts. Called me to Kakatekno. So I moved to San Diego not long after Sam. We got to be roommates and buddies. I was a freelance photo assistant doing commercial photography and really chasing the dream of skydiving. I was a competitive skydiver, but like Elsinore and did that for a long time, started building my own photography business. Long story short, I drove up to visit Sam and the family in Idaho, and then they shut down California behind me. COVID. So yeah, so I said, I guess I live here now. So yeah, complete change in life going from commercial photography to we started a paint company up there when the market was going crazy. And then Joe here kind of talked us into the sauna industry. And that's been amazing. So yeah, we started, I mean, like how symmetry started, it was me designing and building saunas, you know, and those guys building the business. And how'd you get in the mix, Joe? Yeah, I grew up in Los Angeles and didn't have much background or sports or anything. Stopped going to school about 10th grade and single mom growing up, giving her best and bunch of siblings. And from there, my girlfriend got pregnant. How old were you? 18? She was 17, 18, something like that. And then yeah, sitting down and kind of had that road in front of me. I'm going to be like my dad, I'm just going to walk away and throw it in or am I going to grind it out? And for some reason, I decided to grind it out. So yeah, we ended up, we're in Los Angeles, moved to San Diego, started doing a jumped in banking, just entry level, whatever, you know, paper file pushing, minimum wage, close to minimum wage, and then started climbing up the ladder and a supervisor, department head sales and sales is where I found my love was able to, you know, start managing and, yeah, just all really started developing for me visually. You know, it was very easy. I didn't understand what the complexities were in, you know, in business. So just too naive to know. And from there, after, you know, 2008, I was already kind of looking for something and then saw how long just staying banking for probably as long as I was in San Diego, like nine, 10 years. Yeah. So in there for a while, a lot of fun. We pioneered a bank right here off Claremont Mesa called FNBA First National Bank, Arizona, really cool, a lot of fun, a lot of good memories. But my mentor, Jim Patterson, you know, he was a cop, ex cop from Kentucky and he took me under his wing. He's called me as brown hope because all the other sales guys, all the other sales guys were, you know, super ambitious and a lot of them were already, you know, fairly well to do. And he saw this guy coming up from nothing, took me under his wing and said, dude, I'm rooting for you. Go out there, kick ass. And yeah, man, I just started, you know, I became top performer and doing my thing. And then when I, you know, everything's shaked up in that banking industry, I went to sauna, my buddy Logan, who became a mentor and he's still in sauna, Logan Ross out in Los Angeles, super cool guy. And he mentored me, brought me in and I just hit the ground running into the sauna industry into the sauna industry. Like sales or just sales. I mean, I was, you know, sales at that point in banking. I mean, I was just crushing it in sales. So I knew I had this thing, whether it was just the street vision, street level from all the crap I've been through growing up and the desire and the hunger to be awesome. And, you know, running a young family, a wife at this point, two sons and just like, okay, I got a grind. I got to figure out how to not, you know, be like the rest of my family on the system or cheating the system and just ghetto and, you know, and, and yeah, just kept an elevated mindset. Where do you think you got that elevated mindset? Man, I, yeah, I don't know, man. I think, you know, my mom was fairly crazy in a good way. You know, she did her best and she was a discipliner. She boxed for a lot of years. Like, so she would whip my ass and all the way up until I'm not joking, man, like punch me in the face. Crazy gang story. If you guys want to hear it real quick. So I was from a LA street gang for 24 hours. I was living in a Huntington Park where they say Huntington Park where it's crazy after dark. And I was actually in high school, probably ninth grade and, you know, retro was in. So I wasn't even like a gangster looking guy. I was like in bell bottoms and this and that. I'm not joking. And my, but my whole family was like from street gangs. And so I was at high school in Huntington Park and they're like, Hey, aren't you so and so is nephew from, you know, this gang. And I'm like, yeah. And then they started beating me up in the bathroom, right, which they call jumping. And I'm not joking. Not jumping in. They call jumping in. And so I got jumped in and when they picked me up, they're like, all right, you're from, I won't even say it. They're from ex gang now. And I'm like, yeah, I am. So I, I belonged, right? I was like, okay, cool. So I went home and all of a sudden, like within 24 hours, like, I think I might have shaved my head and, you know, wear the baggy pants. So my mom though, yeah, my mom, my, my, my grandma was a gang member, right? So my mom was also a gang member, a ex gang member, you know, turned to Jesus and changed her life. But once you're a gang member, like you're always kind of a gang member, you always have that mentality. So she ended up finding out, you know, or she found out that I got jumped, jumped into a gang. And she's like, Oh, you're not going to, because it's her ex gang that they jumped me in. She's like, Oh, you're not going down that road. Like, you know, I'll kick your ass. Like you're going to get jumped out. So it was within 24 hours. She like walked me to the park in Huntington Park, like in a bunch of gangsters are sitting on the table. And they're like, well, where are you from? Or no, she said, I want my son out of the gang. I'm so and so from ex gang and my mom's ex gang. Long story short, they're like, All right, well, just tell him to deny that he's from the gang and he's out. We don't have to jump him out. Poor kids already got beat up and, you know, 18 hours ago. So, so my mom turns to me, she's like, All right, Joe, well, what gang you from? I'm like, and I threw the gang sign and I told her the name of the gang, right? And she just started beating the crap out of me, like punching me in the face. I mean, it was so bad, even the gangsters were like, Okay, stop, leave him alone. We'll jump them out. So then they like move my mom aside and three of them came and beat the hell out of me for a couple of minutes. Then I was out of the street gang. So yeah, maybe that helped with the, the, you know, some of the grit that I have, but not man, I just, I don't know, I never wanted to be like, like, yeah, like the people before me who I just felt like, you know, we're always elusive, taking advantage of the system, not being honest, not being hard workers, lazy, all this stuff. And it was, you know, my community of, you know, unfortunately, a lot of the Hispanic, you know, community, they're just such hard workers, like, and they grind and I did see that a lot. I just never saw them getting ahead in business for some reason, right? Whatever it was, right? They're always working for someone. I don't want to work for anyone. I knew that for a very long time since I dropped out of high school in 10th grade, right? Like I knew I don't want to work for anyone. So ended up my, my girl, you know, married her right away. I proposed to her kind of telling her parents, Hey, I'm sorry, I got her pregnant, but I'm going to marry this girl. How much did you spend on her ring? Oh, I don't even know if I got her ring out of her. That's low. This was, this was, yeah, I mean, no money. This was 20, I mean, we've been married 26 years, right? So anyway, so found my way out of, you know, into the out of banking into sauna. And then it just, I mean, it was right away. I was already able to consult people as right, helping people talk about health benefits. I didn't know much, probably three days being in the sauna industry. I was already selling so on. I was like, but it's because I care, like I have this passion for human beings to be better, right? There's something, it's, there's a light inside of every human being that, you know, no matter how dim it is, like there's a way to, um, yeah, to extract it, right? To make it bright. And that's what I felt sauna was doing for people. So it was very, I spoke with conviction is very natural. And then I got really good at what I was doing. And then, um, I'll end it with this. So my wife and I, you know, after banking and into sauna, like there's more than enough money, like we grew up super poor, we grew up with nothing. And so what I did tell my wife, I'm like, man, if this is all life has to offer, I don't know, I don't, I don't know if we're going to last in our marriage. I don't really, you know, shiny stuff and bank accounts and like none of that's bringing this kind of intrinsic value that I'm seeking out. And so we went to a therapist together and she said, uh, if you want to fill this deep meaningful fulfillment, have this lasting impact in your life, um, do something, do something together that's going to change the world without you getting any money or accolades or anything like that. And my wife and I love, uh, you know, we love children and we're good, pretty good parents, you know, we're not perfect. And so we're like, dude, let's adopt some kids. We just, let's adopt some kids. Let's like change somebody's world like hands on and not just any kids. Like let's get the kids that are like thrown, not thrown in the trash, but nobody wants like the ones addicted, born addicted to drugs and this and that. So we ended up, uh, yeah, getting, you know, going through all the trainings, getting a call from, uh, getting a call from LA County saying, Hey, we got one for you. How long did that process take? Uh, yeah. So about a year took about a year. You know, we had to be diligent in the classes and, uh, but it took a year and then, you know, they, we went and met our daughter Sage and she was born addicted to, uh, methamphetamines. But right when we saw her, um, it was so beautiful, um, held her and I just knew like, uh, yeah, this, she's mine. Uh, she's ours and yeah, took her home and, uh, on her adoption party after a year, the process to, you know, from foster to adopt, we got a call from the, uh, from the social worker because we told them we can only have one, like we have no space, we have nothing else, you know, we can do. I don't have a five-seater car and, uh, they ended up calling us on her, uh, adoption party saying, uh, Hey, birth mom had another one. What do you, you know, and we knew the family that if we didn't take her, the family was gonna, uh, she was going to go to. So I looked at my wife, my wife's crying. She's like, Oh, you know, I can't tell them no, you're gonna have to do it. And I said, Vic, well, I'll get a little religious or sorry. Uh, I'm confronted with this news, but we can't do it. We have a five-seater car, you know, like we're not in a big enough house, we'd have to move, you know, savings is still, you know, I'm wild in my investments and, you know, everything, uh, isn't perfect, you know, as, as I would go in. So money up, money down. And, uh, this was a time where money was a little down and I just told her, I said, yeah, we can't do it. So I go outside and I'm sitting, you know, kind of there in the balcony and just, but I did hear in the back of my head. It's like, look at the birds in the air, look at the lilies in the field, you know, their clothes, their fed. How much more do I love you? How much more will I take care of you? And so I walked in and I told Vic, I'm like, Hey, we, we don't have the space, we don't have the cash, we don't have the, this, we don't have the, that. So let's do it. And we did it and we brought her on. And when we brought her on, uh, Jules, since we brought in also born addicted, you know, to the, to the methamphetamines and such, but when we brought her on our entire world changed since that day, we've never really had a financial struggle, worry or anything. Right. And so, uh, for me and us and our little family there, you know, what we're trying to do is, uh, yeah, impact the world, impact lives. So now we have four children, two biological sons, 26, 21, 21, and then our adopted daughter, Sage and Jules. So it's Eli Zane, uh, Sage 13, Jules 11 and seven grandkids. So both my sons got married at 17. They're following the, uh, good old dad. Yeah, we're trying. So, okay. How's the, uh, how's like, what's the medical recovery or how do they, how do they wean a kid that's born addicted to meth? What is that process and where do they end up? Do they, do they end up with deficits later on in life? Can they fully recover? How's all that work? Right. Well, there's obviously the predisposition to it, which, you know, as any parent, you're going to be concerned, right? Like, if there's a predisposition to it and they get older, you know, they start just even touching the stuff, they're way more prone, more likely to get addicted, that spiral. So, uh, in the beginning, yeah, we brought them, you know, Sage, she had, uh, you know, muscular issues in her mouth. So she, she had to have a tube. She couldn't suck on the bottle. Um, and so, yeah, it was a, you know, a lot of, uh, muscular issues, right? Mobility issues, things like that. Those are some of the bigger problems that we face. There's some, you know, some sensory stuff, you know, that they'll deal with. Detachment, uh, the, the crazy one is the detachment, you know, um, when we grabbed Sage and I held her there and I, I, uh, looked at her in my wife's like, bring her close to your face, watch what happens. So she's looking at me. I start pulling her in close to my face and she turns her head, turns her head and this is, and I'm like, okay, pull her back. She looks up and we're talking weeks old and she turns her head. And so the nurse was like, Hey, these kids who like, you know, um, are born like this or they, they have abandonment and you know, our detachment, things going on. It's at weeks old. She doesn't want to get close. So she'd turn her face every time we brought her close. So that's probably been the hardest thing to work through, but a cool thing is going back to sauna. Uh, these girls, uh, we started when they were just months old, putting them in our infrared sauna at our house. Like we'd leave the door cracked open. We'd have them in there. Their little cheeks get rosy and flush. Uh, but we started putting them in there at months old for the detoxification purposes. And this was years ago, right? Um, but yeah, so cool to see now the world, you know, the West especially start to evolve in some of these more, uh, I don't know, alternative, you know, wellness paths that they're taking. I think an area that a lot of people are missing that, you know, symmetry and where we are focused on and some of our marketing is geared toward is get your damn kids inside the sauna, like get them, you know, using it very, very young for detoxing purposes. Uh, far, there's far more of a need for them than even for us, right? The toxins, you know, from food environment, grab, name it, right? Over in Europe, when did they start going in the sauna? Kids? Oh, I don't know. Do they start young over there? Oh yeah, it's part of the culture. I mean, the kids go, you know, kids, their sweat glands aren't fully developed yet. So they can't take the super high heat for a long time like we can, but they come in and out. They'll go in for five, seven minutes, come out. It's just part of the family culture. Like we sauna daily. Yeah. If you go to Finland, you know, there's more sauna than people and it is cool. Uh, you'll see like on a Friday night, right? The kids getting out of their, you know, whether university or their school, young kids, I mean, we're talking junior high age, junior high age, high school age, and they're getting, you know, getting together as groups and they're going to the public sauna. They're just going to the saunas down the street and that's how they get their weekends going. And so it's just already ingrained in their culture and it's one of the reasons they're very, very healthy people. We have legit sauna, like family events at my house, like whole families in the sauna. We do this big factory reset thing where we'll do like 25 minutes in and then we'll do ice bath and another 25 and then ice bath and another five. But we do that a lot. Like the fam, there's definitely, we've adopted some of that Finland activities of getting in the sauna as a family hanging out. Because you're, you know, when you're in the sauna, I mean, actually when I go in alone, I always stretch in there. But if you're not stretching, then what are you doing? You're like, at least be able to talk to someone. It's like a time where you're going to, I'm going to spend the next 25 minutes with my wife. What are we going to do? We're like, well, we're going to talk about stuff and hang out. And that might not happen in a normal busy day where stuff is going on. So that's definitely beneficial. So then did you, how did you end up going from the other sauna company? How did you end up with the symmetry thing? Did you move to Idaho too? Yeah, great question. So ended up some in LA with my mentor Logan and Kim and, you know, their, their teach, I went from infrared sauna when I first started working for a fairly large company. And then, you know, Logan and I went to traditional sauna. So, you know, started learning traditional sauna, got that pretty quick. And then we wanted to scale, you know, the goal was to scale the company that we were at. And it just didn't end up being something that aligned with my vision. I'm like Sam and Steve, fairly delusional. And I'm always globalizing every single thing. I don't want to, I don't want to be here to just be a competitor, like I want to dominate, want to crush me. Right. So I didn't sense that from ownership of that company and just salt of the earth people, really cool. But I had to go my own way. I had to take my own chance. So my wife and I are just like, okay, and we've always been the type like we're not risk adverse, whatever. Like if we make a decision to do something, we're doing it. Like it doesn't matter. Right. So I look at her and let's get out of California. All right. So where do we go? And literally like, you know, kind of blindfold and okay, there. Oh, that's Spokane, Washington. Right. So yeah, a couple months later, we have our car packed and, you know, the pods and send us up to Spokane. I was working from home already. So it's easy. So I was still consulting and working, you know, the sales with my buddy Logan. And so it was nice because I did have the liberty to just get up and go if I wanted. So we got to Spokane, but I could only live there for a handful of years because Spokane has been voted a couple of times the, the city with the ugliest people in the country. So I'm like, dude, we got here, we got to get out of there. So we ended up going to court of lane and shortly after that I met Sam and I've already consulted some sauna studios, like these commercial places where it's like, Oh, come pay $45 and, you know, use a sauna. And so I already consulted some of those places. So it was already in my mind to do something like that up in court of lane. It seemed right. So connected with Sam. And then we're like, dude, we started just really him and I got together and it was like instant. Oh my gosh, we can take over the world, but we only had the ideas. We didn't actually know how to do this stuff. So that's where Steve had to come in. Yeah. When I met Joe, I had been using sauna for several years now and your buddy Joe Rogan podcast 2017, 2018, I heard all these health benefits of sauna. So I was like, Oh, I got to start using one. So I did and yeah, I love it. It was life changing, right? And so then we moved up to Idaho from we were living in Oceanside was the last place my wife and I lived with the three kids. But I was tired of being stuck in traffic all the time because I was right still running the paint company paintbids all the time. And I was just stuck in traffic all the time and told my wife was like, we're going back to Montana. So I took her on the tour, the tour of Montana, all the places I thought she might want to live. And she was like, Yeah, yeah. Well, we had a couple of friends who had moved over the court of lane a few years earlier. So she was like, let's go visit them in court of lane Idaho. And so I was like, let's go. So we went over there and we got there. And after two days, she was like, I would move here. And you know, I because I grew up in Montana, that was kind of I had blinders on for going back to Montana. But I was like, quarterly in Idaho, I'd move here too. So 30 days later, I had a house accepted offer. And I told her, I was like, Hey, 30 days, a U-Haul's leaving. Hope you're hope you're in it because we're going. And a lot of that driving factor for me was elk. Like I wanted to be close to where I could elk on every fall without having to travel, you know, so far from San Diego. And then, you know, having grown up in Montana, San Diego was amazing place to live for the whole journey I did. But I was just kind of it had run its course for me. And I think I was kind of ready to go back home. And did you have a business in mind when you moved up there? No, you know, that's crazy is I had hired a general manager, trained him for a year to run my painting company. And he was running it great. We had like 17 employees just and I was so I was getting a pretty handsome monthly paycheck doing nothing. And I told my wife, I probably shouldn't have said this. I was like, Did I make it? Am I retired? Like, are we okay? Because we're making good money. You know, so I called it my first retirement. And then and then COVID hit. And guess what's not essential in San Diego, California during COVID, painting people's houses is not essential. So within about, you know, it was about six to nine months before you could start going out and giving paintbids. Well, all our guys were gone by then. You didn't have employees left. Like there was so it was basically done. So you just got annihilated by COVID just completely shut them down. And so then I'm now I'm in Idaho with no income. And all sudden, you know, and that's when Steve came up to visit. And we started a company up there called Bullet painting. But I told him, I was like, Hey, what it took me 10 years to do in San Diego, we can replicate in three months. Because now I know exactly what to do what not to do, how to market this. So we we launched a painting company. And I mean, within weeks, we were selling contracts, getting guys trying to get it going. We painted a few houses at first ourselves. And we just built a business kind of at scale very, very quickly, but became a name in that town really quickly with that business. And now we still we still own that, but we hired a general manager to run the painting company. So that's still going. But and so who is the who when did the sauna start 20? I met Joe in 2019. We started I mean, within months, we were talking about what if we were to build a sauna studio where members would come and use our saunas and that and and and we were like, Yeah, this is a great idea. Well, we had the question though of, is court of lane population density big enough to actually support this? And so I always tell people so we did exactly zero market research, drained our pockets of all the money we had and said, let's just do it. Yeah, why not? And and that's that's when but we knew, like Joe and I are, we're kind of visionaries, we're forward thinking, we're both really good at sales and talking and blah, blah, blah. But we have no skills in building a website and marketing in all holding holding tools. I have some tools. Just don't let me touch electric. Yeah. But but I I messed up one of our first builds really badly. I wired something wrong and everything went I was like, Oh, and so now they won't let me touch last time doing that. Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. I was teaching us a lesson. But I tell them I was like, I'm probably the safest guy now. I'm never going to repeat that mistake again. I learned it once. But we brought Steven who you know, you see all of our marketing and our website and the beautiful photography and videography and all of that. That's him. He's he's the detail guy. So I'm backing it up though, you know, like and again, something that we saw that I don't think a lot of the sauna people business people have seen is they're opening up these studios. So we talked about, Hey, let's open up one of these sauna studios. I know the monthly fees already consulted several, you know, across the country on how to do it. So I already had it in the bag. I said, but let's make the sauna studio a showroom for custom saunas. So and so let's make every sauna very different. Let's make it ourselves. Because I'm telling you guys, like this is going to be a showroom that members are going to pay for. Right. And it became exactly that. So the studio is running successfully. And then really successfully actually, then we had our little suite upstairs in the dingle, the dingle dangle building. And then as soon as we launched that, you put together that landing page, I said, dude, once we put this landing page on, people from all over the country are going to be contacting us. So we were, we called ourselves a Northwest Custom sauna. Right. Was that it? There's a few of them. Yeah. Yeah. That was the that was the sauna install. Yeah, something like that. And then we learned really quick, really quick that, you know, calls are coming in from all over the country. And as they'd speak to us, they realized on the phone, at least, you know, as we're consulting both Sam and I, we were there to solve problems, problems at the sauna industry. And, you know, that they were, they haven't been able to solve for the 50 year old industry that the, you know, sauna is in the US. Like so us being able to jump on the phone straight away, solve problems, do really cool, innovative things. What was it? What's the biggest issue that Americans had compared to overseas? Yeah. So Americans are kind of locked into this, this box of, I don't know, rustic lumber, like grandma, grandpa, dingy. This is kind of what a sauna supposed to look like. And so, you know, being partnered with Steve and knowing that, I mean, Sam and I can, at this point, visually, right, right, any check we wanted, and Steve would have to cash it. So we're just telling people like, go on, like, what would you like a sauna to look like? So just the limitations in the US, it's like, it's all Cedar, it's all this and just kind of looks, I don't know, ugly. It's also hard to find. It's also hard to find someone that builds saunas, you know, like in most towns, there's a guy and there's a carpenter that's this thing. And it's kind of word of mouth. They don't, they're not marketing and advertising out, or you kind of have your, like you said, the basic Cedar boxes, you're going to a pool world and, you know, seeing whatever they can make for you. So elevating the sauna experience from the build side and design side is we're kind of offering that to way more people and, you know, and being visible and making sure the materials that we're using, you know, are more sustainable, they're better, less maintenance, you know, things that we're thinking on, you know, how to make salt walls because salt walls have been made, you know, before our time here, but they're always made with these ugly looking little bricks. And so we said, hey, let's do bigger bricks, let's do white bricks, let's do, let's make it easy change out, let's just elevate what the other guys are doing. And we started doing that. And, you know, the really cool thing is the organization that we've built, when you get on the phone with someone at symmetry, you're guaranteed that you're talking to someone who is very convicted about health, meaning not only their words, but we're all in fantastic shape. There's nobody in our organization that you would not say is in really, really good shape, which is crazy. And would you guys say you were ahead of the power curve or ahead of the popularity of this resurgence of sauna that's come in the past? Like how long has that resurgence been? Like you talked about Rogan talking about, obviously, Hubertman talking about it, like people have been talking about it in the past. How long has that been? I know, I can't remember. Like was it like five years or something like that? Upward trend is probably seven, you know, it's at seven, eight years, it started. And then right when COVID hit, it really did take off. Yeah, sometimes in success, timing has something to do with it. Oh, for sure. And the fact that failure as well. I mean, like when you have a painting business and COVID shuts down, the painting, that's gotta be a problem. But yeah, the fact that we decided to join forces and do this thing at this time in history is fortuitous. It was very good timing to, and also though, but you know, and Joe, Joe having the most experience in the sauna industry overall, it was, it was like when we build this thing, we don't want to do it like everyone else. There are all these other sauna companies out there who are doing Plain Jane saunas. So we have to, you know, we're going to present ourselves as very different and we're going to build things that are very different from what anyone else is doing. And you know, we found there's two or three other sauna companies in the US, four or five worldwide that are kind of, I think on par with what we're doing with the design, with actually we have teams that are our people that travel all over the US to the Bahamas, to the UK, installing saunas now. So you know, we are looking to go global with this thing. It kind of fits the way we've built the business, right? Like internally, you know, we've, I guess there's a brain trust that says, you know, do it this way and saun. A lot of the, you know, I call them dinosaurs, you know, some of them are friends. Sorry if you're listening to this, but you know, who run other sauna comes in as dinosaurs, right? They're not, for some reason, they're just, it's not clicking. So for us, we've built, not only do we build saunas like outside the box, right? But our organization, we've done kind of backward. Like we're all big on the nepotism friends and family first, right? Let's lift our people up first and let's build a powerhouse, you know, backward, right? But it's worked. It's got in us to, you know, heights that I don't think we even imagined we'd get to. So, you know, our saunas kind of fit our, our demeanor. And these guys came up with the stupidest name. They wanted to call us the bebops, the bad, the bad boys of sauna. And I was like, dude, that's so lame. This is just as Joe's boy band sauna name that we've rejected very early on. He also is a son. He also did spike his hair for this podcast. Just so everyone knows. I told you not to talk about hair. All right. What was the, where'd you guys come up with the name symmetry? Where'd that come from? Hit that. Well, um, wait a minute. Wait a minute. He didn't ask how much it cost. We, we, we brainstormed a bunch of ideas. Now I have to give credit to my oldest son, Justice, who just turned 13, because about two months before we chose the name symmetry at home at dinner one night, I was like, Hey, everyone write down 10 names that you think we should name this sauna company. Well, right there on justice's list is symmetry sauna. Now that kind of got shuffled to the side. And then we chose a piece of history. That's right. Steve will fill in the rest. But, but when I announced the name symmetry sauna, justice brings me his paper and he's like, he wants to cut pay me. I just pay him $250 cash for the name. And he was pretty happy. Well, were you called something before symmetry? Yeah, we were, we were Northwest Customs. And we were starting to build outside of the Northwest. And so people in San Diego are like, you guys actually do work down here. I was like, now is the time to change the name before we go any further. And so I've, you know, been being in, the creative industry and branding and design. I've got good friends and my buddy, Sean Ritzenthaler, who designed all of our stuff. We did a whole brand, you know, study with him. And it is hilarious to that we land on one that are 13 year olds. Yeah. Maybe Sean, maybe he was, you know, in contact with justice. You know, we wanted something that sort of spoke to one, the beauty of it, like to the, you know, I mean, obviously the body's symmetrical health and wellness is symmetrical, you know, and it's kind of, it's beyond just on itself. You know, obviously, we do cold plunge, we do lots of things in the wellness space now. And so we just thought symmetry was beautiful. And then you stuck with it. We stuck with it. So now, what was the, how'd you start getting traction out of the gate? Like this is a pretty, you know, how is somebody, even in Idaho, when they want to build a sauna, how are they finding, was that via the website out of the gate? Yeah. And yeah, I mean, we, you know, landing page. I mean, it was just a landing page. I told these guys, I said, dude, like, if we put up a landing page, we're going to start getting calls from all over the country. I don't know if they didn't believe me, but he put up a quick landing page and almost that was very ugly. Yeah. Yeah. But, but that just speaks to the need, you know, like when we first started, when we built our studio, it was sort of kind of before the wave, I think, because just from a marketing standpoint, people weren't finding a son looking for a sauna place, right? The whole, the phenomenon of sauna studios is pretty new. We're early in that so that when people were coming to town, they weren't searching for sauna place. So we had to have big sauna, you know, on the window and, and do all kinds of social media marketing and, you know, wave signs out front. I remember when he, he put out the splash page, Northwest Customs Sauna, I was on a call with a guy from Scottsdale, Arizona, and he was a business guy and he was like, so do you guys only work in the Northwest? And I go, where are you, sir? Scottsdale? I go, well, that's Northwest of somewhere, correct? And I was like, so we'll certainly come down and build your sauna too. But he said, you know, how long you guys been around? I was like, about a year. He was like, if you were ever going to rebrand, because it might be a good time if you're going to expand, you know, through the whole US. And I was like, yeah, we're, we've been thinking about that. So he planted that seed again. I can't remember his name, but a shot out. Yeah, shout out, shout out to that guy from Scottsdale. But yeah, once we, and here's the other thing, I, when we finally got the website done and it was launched a for, for symmetry sauna, I remember we're in this tiny office, Joe, Steve, myself and your son Eli, Eli, and they launched the page. And so, you know, we're just basically staring at each other. And it was within a couple hours. Ding, ding, a lead comes in. I was like, whole, and then it has never stopped since. I mean, I slow down. I bet now we average about 30 really good qualified leads a day. And so we've got 10, 10 sauna consultants on the phones, banging or video calls all day, every day. It's wild. It's kind of like, you know, we took a tiger by the tail and we're just hanging on sometimes and not letting the ball drop. We've taken a lot of missteps. I mean, you kind of mentioned it before, you know, when we opened up, what was called heat praxia. It was a now symmetry sauna studio, but it was heat praxia was our studio. This, this member paid showroom. I remember it was during COVID that we, you know, started building our prices. The prices on everything we're going to purchase went up like, I don't know, 65% Sam and I are funding this thing out of our pocket. And Steve's funding it with his sweat equity. He's building all this stuff, right? We're just shelling out the money. $17 I put into this. That is true. That is true. That's all I had though. That's all he had. And so we get done with this thing. We're way, way over budget. We're just like, all right, we're ready. And we unveil it. We take off the window wrapping. And we're standing on the outside looking at it. And I'm like, it says heat praxia. And I'm like, Oh my God, we didn't do any marketing. How do people know it's isn't like a heating air conditioning company? So people are just, it's not Boulevard, right? People are just walking by like, they have no idea. So what is this? Yeah, Steve jumped on it pretty quick, but that was a big misstep. And you know, you get to learn from these things. None of us have praxia mean, what's well, you know, the practice of heat is literally what it means. It was a made up word that we thought it'd be fun to have a unique word. It was pretty cool. People love it. People started pronouncing it wrong, not knowing what it meant. Did you, how long did it take you to decide to change that? We did that after last year, actually. And did you get membership in there out of the gate to people who are coming in? We did. It was slow. It was slow because we were, we're right on this beautiful little downtown street in in Corderlane and people are looking for bars or, you know, tourist stuff. And souvenirs. So they're not really in the, I'm going to go get sweaty vibe. But still, we built up a really, really amazing little community. And then our tragedy was one of the weeks that it was minus 15, the pipes above us in the building burst and flooded our whole total. We're about 14, 1400 square feet. Yeah, tiny little place, but it did you have insurance for it? Oh, well, we didn't talk about that one, Steve. Some, I'll just say that. There was some. Well, not enough. By all, by all first glances, we were completely covered. And then on page 178, section two dash one, a, if a water pipe breaks because of low temperatures, frozen pipe, you're not covered. You get, you get, you get $6,200. We didn't know that clause was in there. So we got hosed. Like I mentioned, the beginning of this, you know, we had a fire here that was due to electrical in the sauna. And thankfully we, we had like full insurance. And that's how we were able to rebuild. And I mean, it's a, it's a massive, massive bill to rebuild this place without insurance. We would have definitely, but we would doubt. Well, we were more or less without insurance, but we chose to do it anyway. So we found a new location. We have about 3,800 square feet now. And we completely rebuilt and it's been really amazing. We were faced with a decision and that, you know, we, because symmetry sauna manufacturing and symmetry build has taken off all over the country, become this, you know, juggernaut. And now we have this little studio and we're just like, why are we going to redo this again? And what the thing is, you know, we made a promise, number one, we made a promise to our general manager, Heather Gallego shot out that, you know, as we poached her from her whole company, we said, Hey, we are going to take you as far as we can take you. And, you know, and you play it right, you know, you could be an owner with us someday. And we just weren't bs-ing. So as we flooded out, we were out several hundred thousand dollars, you know, out of pocket. We're sitting there, symmetry, you know, sauna manufacturing's taken off. It's like, why are we going to do this again? And then Heather came to us and she's like, Hey, there's a bunch of members who are leaving their auto payments on for us to rebuild. Oh my God. You know, and so we're sitting there and we're like, dude, this, this isn't the, the cow, you know, that, that manufacturing is, but a lot of people started crying out, you know, how the studio has changed their lives, helped them, you know, stop drinking, stop smoking, blood pressure, all these benefits, benefits that they were experiencing because of what we had exclusively in downtown Cordo Lane. So kind of like the adoption thing, right? We looked at each other like, well, we don't have the funds to really do it. Why should we do it? Okay, let's do it. And we did it and we made actual Heather, you know, we made her, we kept to our word and, you know, we took her from just an employee to, she's not equal partner with us in the studio, you know, lifting her as high as we could get her. So, and this, this is now, yeah, it's our pet project, you know, the studio. She just, she just texted us yesterday in a big publication in Cordo Lane, Idaho that Symmetry Sauna Studio voted best business in Cordo Lane for that year, which was solid. Dang, that's pretty solid. And, you know, it is cool now too, there's a sort of a generational shift happening with a lot of these young people in their 20s. They're kind of entrepreneur minded, they're really into health and fitness, and they're not going to the bars and drinking. They're coming to our studio. I forget the number, I just read it two days ago, but people are like the younger generation, they're not drinking. No, they're taking care of themselves. They are health and fitness. They're like, like I was talking about my family, you know, my kids are in their 20s and they're on a Friday. What are they doing? Oh, sauna and ice bath and working out and going to Jiu Jitsu. Like that's kind of, that's kind of the new deal. And so I'm really glad. I mean, I never would have gone into the alcohol business, but the alcohol business is, I know people in the alcohol business, it's a rough business right now. It's a rough business because the younger generation, they're just not drinking as much as the older generation did. So that's, that's pretty cool. And not surprising. I mean, as you learn, as people learn, have learned so much more about what alcohol does to your system and, you know, not to mention all the other drugs. I mean, it's, it's like horrific to think about, you know, what, what your kids went through being born addicted to meth. Like how addictive has something got to be that you'll jeopardize your child, your unborn child's life? Like, can you imagine how just demonically field? Yeah, that just, just, it is insane to think about that. And that's, I was going to say this when you were talking about that, because you talked about they are kind of predisposed to be addicted. And that's one thing that I've told many people, but especially young people, look, there's eight out of 10 people, they can drink alcohol perfectly fine and be social and carry on, and it'll never be a problem for them. And there's two people out of that 10 that it's going to negatively impact them. One of those two is going to wreck their life. And I'm like, and you don't really know where you are. So what, you know, why you want to risk, take a chance. Yeah, why take the chance when look, can it be fun for a young person to go out drinking at night or whatever, they have a good time? Sure. But they could also have a good time if they didn't do that. I could have a good time doing a million other things. And there's no risk of ruining and destroying your life. And by the way, when you destroy your own life from alcohol, you pretty much destroy everyone around you as well. So I'm a huge supporter of sauna in the replacement of that. So when someone calls up you guys, what's the, you know, they, they call up and say, Hey, I'm building a house or I got this space in my house. Here's what I need. Here's what I want. And then you guys go through the design process. How does that work? Yeah. Yeah, they'll call up, you know, it depends how far along they already are, but let's say they have a floor plan from their architect. Yeah, sauna is already drawn in. It's a seven by seven. And so we have a whole, you know, design book and all of that that we can book a call with them on video, go through all the different numbers we could put in there. Do you want salt walls? Do you want this? All these different benching profiles we can do. And people basically get to pick and design their own sauna to the aesthetics that they love. And then we'll do some professional drawings, send those over, get them a quote. If it goes to that next phase, then they're going to pay us. And we're going to get that sauna into production. Once it gets into production, we prefabricate everything up in Idaho. We're going to box it in these gigantic crates that are going to be trucked to their home. Once it's delivered, about five days later, our build team will fly out, boots on the ground, and then we'll install that thing and go through safety checks and do all that. It used to be a majority of homes. Now we're about 50-50 commercial. We do a ton of commercial. And that's actually growing even more. The cool thing is, you know, considering we have a studio, I can't tell you how many competing studios we've actually built out, right? It's with our stuff. But, you know, there's plenty of meat on the bone, plenty of people who need to get healthy and places all over the country that we probably can't touch. So, you know, yeah, we're more than happy to support these commercial places that just have a dream. And, you know, there's even been points where we've consulted, you know, some of these spaces for studios. Yeah, come on, fly down and we'll teach you the ABCs of how to build a successful sauna studio. So, I think that's the cool thing about us. We're not just trying to hoard it all and being the guys on top peeing on everyone else. We want everybody to rise together. Yeah. And in the U.S. market, they say they think the saturation rate of saunas per house is 0.6 of 1%. So, whereas in Finland, it's just about 100%. Right? So, there's more saunas than people in Finland. So, in the U.S., even though it feels like we're in this parabolic rise, we are at the very, very beginning of a very big thing that's coming in the next 10 to 15 years. Saunas are expensive. They're more expensive than I think people expect them to be. Because when you look at them from the outside of you, it's a box with a heater in it, right? Right. And, but then when you recognize the fact that you got to put special materials in there, you can't use certain materials, you can't have glues, you can't have certain like treatments on the wood, like there's a whole bunch of things that fall into place. And they end up, I was trying to think of a good way to say this, they're about as expensive as a car. There you go. And guess what? Can you get a car for five grand? Yes, you can. And you know, that car is going to be a $5,000 car. Can you get a car for $100,000? Yes, you can. Is that going to be a really nice car? Yes, it is. And Saunas are kind of that way. You can spend anywhere from five grand or all the way up to 150 grand to, yeah, and higher. You know, you can spend, I mean, it's a small room with very particular materials in it. And then it's got to be designed a certain way. So, yeah, they can be very, very expensive. And that's what you guys can do any kind of anything in that spectrum. But, you know, I'm just saying this, if somebody calls up and they think they're going to spend $3,200 on a custom sauna, it ain't happening. Like they're definitely more expensive than I think people are used to or people expect them to be, especially because you can see, you know, you can go online and there's some, you know, sauna in a box that's got $900. Yeah, for cheaper. And there's some, I think there's, I haven't tried one of these, but there's some of these Saunas now that are kind of like portable Saunas like they're like, if you're a fighter, yeah, you put on a, you can put them to your hotel room or something like that. So I guess those are options too. But so that's the process that you guys go through. And do your people go and install them and build them out? Now, not on everyone. Sometimes people have a GC who is experienced in sauna building and they want him to do it. And then we're going to get him full elevations and shop drawings to help him have an easier install. But we're finding that I don't know, 65% of our custom Saunas, they prefer to hire symmetry to come out. It goes and honestly, our cost to do that, I find is about the same as what their GC was going to do it for anyway. And then I'm like, we're going to do it three days faster than him. This is all we do. We don't touch, we don't build anything else anymore. Saunas, sauna, saunas. So, you know, like, like you guys in the Navy SEALs, specialists, right? We are specialists in this thing. So it seems to go better when we do it. Yeah, I like the analogy used there. You know, it's usually when you buy the $5,000 car, right? Your goal is to get to the $100,000 car at some point. So for us, you know, we get calls all the time of, Hey, I bought this sauna and it's not I'm not sweating it in anymore. Right? Well, what's the temp? Well, it only goes to 130 degrees. Ah, right. So, Sammy's turned me on to this point of, you know, buy once, cry once, right? And what we're trying to do when people call in is we're trying to, you know, walk them through their needs. Like, we don't want them to design and build something so big that, you know, three weeks later, they're like, crap, right? Like, I shouldn't have got it so big or I shouldn't have got it so small, right? So we're really trying to curtail our conversation and what we're trying to get to, you know, or what they need, right? What's the best value for you? We're never going to overcharge. For sure. We're going to give you value for value. But yeah, I think buy once, cry once, a lot of the stuff people buy, they'll end up, you know, we have tons and tons of people who have either infrared saunas or barrels who are calling us like, yeah, I don't like this anymore. And what they've acclimated, right? They can only get so hot in some of these saunas. So for us, we're really focused on the, you know, the overall heat impact percentage, you know, the hips that they're able to fill and we make sure we build it right. So yeah, so we're going to be price higher for sure, but we're only going to do it once. Yeah. At what point did you guys know you like had a winner? Like, basically, at what point did you guys realize you had a winner of a business? And what, who, who called or what business or what came through where you were like, Oh, this is happening. I'll say, I'll say we were finally able to pay ourselves. That was, that was the moment. There's many, how long did that take? Oh, shoot. We realized, we realized pretty quickly from the studio that we weren't going to be able to get a paycheck from this little tiny 1400 square foot studio. So it was a year and a half, two years of the population of Cordelaine. 50 60,000. Yeah. So even the best business in Cordelaine is 60,000 people run a studio. One of the cool, one of the cool things about how we started, right? So I got to bring up Josh and Shelley. So again, we're doing it backward, right? From how most businesses say to, you know, stay away from friends and family and business. And we're like, dude, all we have our friends and family at this point. And so we were just, we had studio running. We were just launching the custom, you know, custom sauna manufacturing, and we're drowning already. So two people from our home group. So we weren't getting paid. Like, none of us are getting paid. We're just, you know, working as hard as humanly possible. So several months we're going through it. And a couple husband and wife from our church, you know, a little church group said, Hey, we want to come and help you guys out. We'll just volunteer a little time every week. And, you know, we'll see where it goes. Something and oh, cool. They seem smart. You know, we never worked with them in a business capacity. They're just like church people. They show up with their little briefcases, husband and wife on a Monday. They stay there for eight hours. It's like, wow, dude, they did a lot of work today. Doing what answering the phone? I'm just typing stuff, answering phone, buying stuff. We weren't sure. We weren't sure. But it looked impressive and they looked busy. They really didn't do anything. Let me make sure I understand this. So you guys have your business. Yes. It's and how many employees do you have at this point? Well, at this point, it's just four of us. Four of us. Okay. So and some friends of yours from church said, Hey, can we just come in and work? Volunteer. Yes. At your business. They came in on a Monday for eight hours. Then they showed up the next day for eight hours. Then they showed up the next day for six months. So Josh and Shelley Watkins huge shot out. We wouldn't be here without you guys for six months. They worked for a symmetry with zero paycheck grinding with us. How are they feeding their family or whatever? They had another contract. They had a long term contract doing marketing stuff. The marketing and computer work for a company who would win the VAT company had something for them to do. They were like on retainer. They would send it their way and they're like, they haven't sent us anything for six months. We have time on our hands. We want to come and help you guys out. And you know, turns out Shelley now runs our entire procurement. Must have been a government contract. She orders all the lumber, the heaters that I mean, she orders all materials for our fabrication team. And then Josh is he's a savant in building systems. He's now our chief of operations. Like he built all the systems of how does a sauna sale communicate through the company to where it finally ends up to where it's supposed to be with the right people on the ground. And he's built automated all of these systems. And now he's using some AI to help automate things even better. The guys are genius. A little did we know right when we when they were coming volunteering like we're just like, okay, we didn't know their background. We just figured they know how to use a laptop, right? But yeah, Shelley was a procurement specialist who worked in tech. Josh is yeah, this is a bond and and now he's like into the AI with Eli and they're building our infrastructure. That's why we're able to go into other verticals now, right? We have other businesses because we have the power team. We literally have the group of people we could if we wanted to uplift and place in any industry and be awesome. Like there's zero doubt about it in my mind. But just the fate right to get them volunteering their time for six months. Then we started giving them a paycheck. So and now they are they are intricate, very important piece to the symmetry puzzle that we've laid out. Awesome. So how long did it take before you guys cut yourself a paycheck? I think it was about two years. I mean, there was a couple, it's a little hand-to-mouth there. Like, you know, I was at the for the first couple years, it was me designing and building the song. And I bring help, you know, but it was like, okay, we can take $1000 each from this one. During that time, I was still running bullet painting full-time. Oh, just in the paint business. And you know, and so Steve and I were owners of that, but any profits we made off that, we would just roll over here so we could get a couple thousand dollars. And then when I when we finally got our general manager, Adam, to run bullet painting, then I came in full-time right at the time we launched the symmetry sauna website. And I was getting paid a whopping $4,000 a month to take care of my family and clearly until until we just started making sales, which happened quickly. I mean, within the first month, it was like ding ding, sauna sold ding ding, sauna sold. Well, that's the stomach you have. That's the stomach you have to have, man. I mean, you've got to, you know, everybody says, you know, they want to, they want to hit it big. They want to, one percent's going to get there. But are you going to go through the grind of what it takes when, yeah, your wife's like looking at it. You're like, we have zero dollars in the bank. Why is, you know, my again, we're, we have a lot of friends and family, so we're big into the nepotism. And I can, you know, my little brother, I had, I hired, you know, to be a sales guy, he was getting, you know, my brother, Dan, he was getting more paid more money than me. So my wife, middle of the night, she's like, how's your brother making more than you? You're the CEO. And I'm just like, Hey, this is what it takes, right? And so it's a sacrifice. So before you want to go jump in and, and, you know, run, run your mouth about how you want to, you know, be this big shot, man, you better be ready to pay the price because it is a heavy, heavy price. Yeah. No, they're, you're the one that's getting the call when something goes wrong. That's right. By the way, what do you guys do about that? You know, sauna set up somewhere, you know, something stops working, something breaks, what's your, what's your protocol on that? Right. So we've actually built, so we have symmetry sauna manufacturing, we have symmetry studio, and we have a separate company now, a symmetry build, right? And so Tony and Vera, they run that entire division and they're so awesome. They run that entire division. So we go out, we send our team out. If anything goes wrong, you know, we're on the phone, we're helping sometimes. And if necessary, we're fly right back, right? And even though it dips into our margins, or even though we go on the red, right, on some projects, we committed to do something and do it right. So we're going to see it through. So yeah, Tony, him and Vera are running that entire division. We have several teams that fly out of Cordo Lane. We have teams in Florida. So we have people all over that this is what they do full time in our queue right now, just, I don't know if it's for the next month, we have like 70, 80, 90 builds that are, that we got to go fulfill. Again, we're writing, Sam and I are writing all these checks and luckily we have the people surrounding us who can cash them. But you know, now, now we have, you know, full time customer service person, we've got the build team that can travel. But early on, we did a, we did a beautiful outdoor sauna for a guy in Encinitas. And, you know, our team built it. A couple weeks later, I get a call from him like, Hey, the sauna is not heating up. I don't know what's wrong. So Steve and I next morning, we're on an airplane to San Diego, we come down, it took Steve five minutes, he's like the electrician didn't tighten the wire tight enough. So we did that, everything was fired up. We got to jump in the ocean, two hour surf session back on a plane that night, back to back to court lane. So that, that was kind of the commitment we had early on was like, it doesn't, we're not dropping a ball on anyone ever, whatever we got to do. So we would hop on planes and be in the middle of nowhere doing a five minute fix. You know, that was costly, but at the same time, you get it pays so many dividends on your reputation. Cause if, you know, everyone hears this, you know, I have a bad experience with symmetry. I call my friends, don't use them. They suck. Right. Right. You know, that, that is so much worse. But when you take care of someone, and that's so beneficial because they spread that word to like, Oh, you should do a hundred percent. Go with these guys. I had this issue. They flew down there, fixed it, you know, all good. That's what you got to do. That's, that's how you maintain the reputation of the business. And on the, on, yeah, on the thought of when I feel like I felt, you know, we made it or we got something big on our hands. Yeah. I don't think it was when we started getting paid. I think it's when I'm sitting there myself, writing a $6 million, $6 million contract, you know, like playing attorney, because I'm still, at that point, I think we could afford an attorney. I'm just like, Oh my God, this contract looks good. And we get it. And then, you know, it comes back and it's signed. I'm like, this is like a six and a half million dollar single contract. And we're doing it. Like we're playing attorneys. We're playing sauna builders. We're doing it all. Was that for one sauna? No, no, no, no. It was for a big sauna. I was going to say, you threw your world records on it. Yeah. No, it was for a franchise, you know, studio location. We're just, you know, we're contracting to make several hundred saunas. But man, that's when I, when we were writing out that contract and then I was like, okay, these bigger contracts, you know, we're going to be able to get and we've been able to secure some crazy relationships. And again, I don't know what's attracting it or to us, right? I just know, like our partnership is probably something that it is a bit magnetic, you know, we're all characters and funny, but we're all very honest, right? And straight out as they like to call us the bad boys of sauna. So we're just going to tell you the truth regardless, you know? And so we, I think that's when I realized like, yeah, that big contract, that first one was like, okay, we're, we're, we're in this thing. And I had a, this year, a moment where I was like, have we made it? Because I get a email and the name is Lara Trump. And I'm like, nah, that's not, it's someone with the same name. How crazy. So I emailed back, hey, you want to book a video call over this and we can help design your sauna? Sure enough, get on the call. It's Lara Trump. And I'm like, okay, I was like, first of all, I thought you would have an assistant doing this stuff for you. She's like, no, I like to be involved in it. And, and I was like, how did you find us? Did someone tell you about us? She was like, just looking at custom saunas found your website. Clearly you guys are the ones who are doing this the right way. I was like, well, hold on before you go there, like, let us do it for you. And then tell the world that we're doing it right. But yeah, so she, we have, we have a sauna in fabrication for Lara Trump. And then they want us to do the Trump winery after that to redo the sauna is there. So it was, you know, that when no moments like that hit, you're just kind of like imposter syndrome, right? Like, Jack, how'd you find us? Yeah. That's a good question. Nicky found Nicky found. Okay. So Nicky, who is doing the rebuild here. And, you know, he's a, he's a, you know, one of our, one of our, one of part of our family at victory. And he was, you know, tasked with building the best sauna we could possibly build here. And so he, he came to me and taught told me about you guys. And that's just kind of how, how, how you send him up to Idaho. That was right. Yeah, maybe. Let me tell the story from my perspective really quickly. Yeah. Nick called and I answered the phone up in Idaho. And he said, Hey, we're, we got a gym down here in San Diego. And we want to put saunas in. And I was like, what kind of gym? He was like, Oh, it's an MMA gym. And I said, that's, is that Chocos gym? I said, I heard the place burned down from the sauna. Is that true? And he said, Yeah, I'm Chocos GC. And so, you know, we started talking and he sent me the dimensions and everything. And we did this, I sent him a quote, Nick calls me back about a week later. And he says, Jocco wants to know why the saunas are so expensive. And I said, I go, I go, Nick, Jocco owns origin clothing, right? And he goes, Yeah. And I go, I want you to ask Jocco a question for me. Why is Jean so expensive? And he goes, Well, they're made in the USA. I go, you know, where our saunas are made in the USA. And he goes, Oh, Jocco's going to like that. So that was kind of how it went. But yeah, and here we are. So yeah, kind of crazy. So what are the, how many employees do you guys have right now? Close to 40, 35 to 40, something like that. And then what's the, what's the, what's the goal? Like, what's the next big thing that you guys are doing? Oh, yeah, silence. Go ahead. Yeah. So we've, we've moved in a few different verticals. I think we are, we're going into more of the spa, you know, I think that's where it's taken us the overall spas. I'm not just limited to sauna, you know, the different modalities. We're, we're launching a cold tub, very custom, you know, to match, let's say you get an outdoor sauna and you had to build, you know, a certain way, we can custom build the cold tub to match exactly that. Aesthetically. So we're in that game now. We've been, you know, we've been building our own cold tubs. We did in studio. So we feel like we have a decent handle on that. Then we're getting into what you call the IV, IV wellness, Dr. Luke and Nick and right off. Yeah. Maybe Jaco too. I think we'll see. Right on. And if you guys look back, you know, you hear you are, you, you know, we, you may not have made it to where you want to make it to, but you certainly are on step. You're all getting paychecks, right? Hey, you know, that's, that's a positive thing. When you look back, like, what are the, what are the big lessons? Oh, let's go through each of you. Like, what's the big lessons learned that you, if you were doing this again, or you were going to tell someone that's out there, look, everyone's, you know, out there trying to struggle, trying to make things happen. You want to take away or give somebody one piece of advice that would really have been helpful to you. What do you got? I'll go first. And we, we had a few, I'll say business advisors or people kind of speaking in our ear, telling us, slow down, slow down. You guys are going to make mistakes. You can't grow this fast. You can't expand this fast. And then, you know, Joe and I would look at each other and we'd say, let's press the gas pedal harder. Cause there, we knew that we're not slowing down. We are here, you know, as Conor McGregor said, we're not here to take part. We're here to take over. And it's just the way we roll. Like big vision and we're going to go 100 miles an hour and we're going to find the people and we're going to train them and we're going to build the systems and we're going to do the thing. And then if I have to be on a plane late at night to go somewhere and fix something, then I'm going to be the guy that does that. But we're just, we, we don't roll slow and we just saw the potential of what this can be. And so some, some, you know, classical business advice is, you know, build super slow. Do, we had one guy say, let's just do three saunas a month and we'll do those three perfectly. And you know, and I was like, there's some of us who have to get a paycheck at some point. And I was like, we could do 30 saunas this month. Why would we not do that? And then just work 24 hours a day to make sure it goes well. And so, you know, so we just, and the other thing that I would do, oh, you're going to still my thunder and a hundred times over is everyone always says, do not go into business with your friends or family. Right. And, and I always say, no, no, no, know who your friends are. And because at the end of the day, yeah, making money is great because you need it to live, but not the motivation isn't money. And I know these guys so well. And we've all been dirt broke and completely happy before. And I was like, if I'm broke again, that's fine, because it's not going to change who I am. And it's not going to change Joe. It's not going to change Steve. So, but being in business with these guys, and there were times in the last couple of years where we had almost no thousands in the bank and we're just looking at each other like, this could be it. Like, are we going to make payroll this month? And, and we're always just like high five. If, if it all fails, it's been a hell of a ride. It's been a blast. It's been amazing. And we'll go, we'll go to the local burger joint and just take that place over. So, just, just resiliency. Yeah. One point I give people is, you know, you need to listen to the demand signal. And sometimes people falsify the demand signal in their own head, right? They know, of course, everybody wants a, you know, Bulgarian waffles. You know, when you're like, no one's ever heard of Bulgarian waffles. Nobody wants them. I just made them up my head, whatever. So, one thing that's important is like, as you, you get demand signal for 30 saunas, there's no, like you said, like, find a way, like, okay, well, if you only have demand signal for three and you build 30, guess what? You're going out of business. You're right. Yeah. So, you need to pay attention to that demand signal. But if the demand signal is there, you know, do everything you can to fulfill it and, and grow based on demand signal. Don't grow based on your fantasies. I'm not, you got to have a vision, right? But there's a difference between a vision and a fantasy. And sometimes people's fantasy is not matching reality. So, check that demand signal. But if it's there, go get it. Right on. What do you got, Joe? Yeah. So, I, Sam, still a little bit of my thunder, but it's okay. I was reflecting not too long ago, maybe a month ago. And I did share with these guys. I brought up that exact fact, right? I said, hey, man, when the sauna studio, when the heat praxia, the water pipe broke, and we, the insurance didn't cover it, and we're out several hundred thousand dollars, we could easily turned on each other. Like, you didn't, what, why didn't we not once? Same thing, you know, as we're building manufacturing and bank account goes way, way, way, way up or like, yeah, we did it. And then it goes way, way, way, way down. Like, what's happening? Not, I called Sam into the office and Steve, I'm like, I don't know, Sam, only he was there. Steve was at studio working there. And I said, Hey, Sam, you come here, want to see something cool? He was like, Yeah, check this out. And I pulled up my computer screen. It was not many thousands in there. And we had, you know, a huge nut to cover. We're halfway through the month. And he just looks at me and I'm just like, Oh, that's our bank account. I'm like, Yeah, pretty much all the money we have. We had, I'll share. We had, we had $10,000 in the bank account. And we were about in two weeks, we were going to have to pay out 300,000. Now, keep in mind, we're bootstrapped, right? Like, we are, we are truly bootstrapped from the ground for every company we built. We had no money starting like we had no loans. We got no none of it. Like we did it out of belief and being too stubborn to take money from the outsides and we're going to do this. So at that point, we wished we would have money that we take it from the outside or go working capital. What is that? And so we're sitting there, but no blame game, no fingers on why we commit to that. Why do we spend on that? None of that. And it was, and when we got through that, right, Sam did give us speech like, Hey, man, if this is it, it's been a hell of a ride. And we're going to go flip burgers for a couple of months, then take over the burger stand. But I also said, I think we're going to sell 700,000 worth of saunas in the next two weeks and collect all that money and we'll be fine. And we did. We did. It was wild. But you know, so the biggest takeaway that I'd have if I could replay it or advise anybody is pick your partners wisely and make sure there's a synergy and something beyond X's and O's, something beyond money, make sure there's a value drive. Right? Like we had brought on relationships, you know, who were in our ears and this is how to do it. This is how not to do it. But those guys were X's and O's guys, right? Those guys were how much money, how much chiching, and that was always for us, we're always, you know, value. You know, Sam, even though he loves to make money and be awesome and competitive, he's out in Mexico and building houses, you know, with his family, with kids and my wife and I, you know, we're very involved in our time with orphans and donate, right? And so it has to be people that are lying with your values. So get those people, make sure they are not risk adverse, right? Make sure that if you guys agree, right? Think long, think wrong, right? You agree. You think it's a dope idea? Go, right? Build the plane, midair. Do not let the outside noise distract you because what's inside that visceral thing when you connect it with guys who are the same spirit, like unstoppable, like, and it's not a dysphoria, like my body dysphoria. It truly is unstoppable. Yeah, that's a, you know, what you just described is, you know, clearly it's something that I believe in the idea of ownership and taking ownership and it's amazing how often two or three people or business partners make a decision and they make that decision together. And of course, when the decision goes well, sometimes they still stay together and you know, even when the decision goes well, sometimes that was really my idea, right? You know, that does happen. But where you really see the fractures are when the decision that we made, we sat in a room, we all agreed on this thing. And you know what, Joe, you might have been the one that was like, like, no, no, I, this is what we should do. And maybe I was the one that kind of resistant. But at the end of the meeting, I said, you know what, cool, we go. And it's amazing how that fractures when that when the decision ends up being the bad decision. And now instead of me going, Hey, all right, what are we going to do to fix it? Instead I say, well, that was your call, Joe. And when that when that happens, when people aren't taking ownership within the ownership group, like together, unified, right? Because look, man, like, you know, everyone's rolling the dice and no one knows what the future is going to be. So it's really easy, really easy to, you know, that ownership group to start pointing fingers at each other. So it's, it's very nice to have you guys sitting here recognizing like, yeah, you know, it's kind of that thing, you know, you go, we go. But I can say I was the guy in your story sitting arguing with my two guys about we have to make this decision. And I was the advocate and they went with me on the decision decision was us a bad one. A bad decision. It was about a partner to partner with. And so the lesson there was don't make exceptions for personality for what you think they can do for you. So that was a big mistake. And, and I can speak from personal experience that these guys are gracious. And they did, they took that we decision, you know, and have not made me. Well, maybe, maybe. We had one session. I'm not saying they're not going to smack talk you. Yeah. But from the extreme ownership standpoint, I also stand by, you know, what I thought at the time, you know, I did think that. And so what you brought in one more person we did. And, and you kind of saw some, you guys saw some red flags from the beginning. And yet you saw like, Hey, there's also some green flags thinking this might be an opportunity. There this guy was a big businessman, very, very smooth talker. And had convinced us that he could take us to the promised land a whole bunch faster than we could get there by ourselves. But there I saw a lot of red flags and then a lot of just personality conflicts. And I was like, and, and I was selling the idea that this guy is going to hose us. Steve had a much more optimistic view of this person. And I think Joe was a little more neutral. But Steve, essentially Steve, not a sales guy, somehow sold us on the idea. You would think you would know that. Oh, right. Hold on. Hold on. So we have a rule with each other. And I think it's been from the beginning and it's called a two out vote one, no matter what. And that one who's the outlier needs to change their attitude and get on board with the other two, right? That's in all decisions. So we went to Sam and I said, no, on this partner, we said, Hey, no, we went and met with Steve at his house, like deep in the woods. And we said, not going to happen. You know, we just don't feel comfortable. And we laughed. And Steve didn't have a good attitude about it, didn't let it go. And he called us and he's like, I think we're missing it guys. Another meeting. And then yeah, somehow the non sales. I read a few sales books. The non sales guys sold us on this partnership. So begrudgingly, Sam was the most begrudging to the decision. I had a lot of apprehensions, probably a little more grace for this guy could possibly not be what we're thinking it is. And we can we can wrap that up there, but say that, you know, praise God, it didn't, you know, tank us. Obviously, it didn't, you know, collapse the partnership. We were able to get past it and learn some extremely valuable. I think, I think even me now, I'm actually happy that it all happened because we will not repeat that mistake again. Like we learned very early on. And even then it felt like big financial stakes, but in the big picture, it's it's small beans, what had to happen to remove that person from the partnership group. So lesson learned. And and now, you know, it actually brought all of us even even stronger. Yeah, together. Yeah. And from that, that perspective, I look at I've again, I've seen because I have a consulting company, we work with companies all the time. And you see, again, you get the senior leadership in a company. And one person makes a bad call. And the nice thing is here, Steve, is you had the humility to say, Okay, I'm looking at what just happened. I made a bad call. We need to fix it. Like, yep. But I see the other thing happen where no, you guys just don't get it. No, it's going to get better. Like all the writings on the wall crystal clear. And yet someone just continues to lie to themselves. Right. And you can't pull them back. So that's a good thing to do when things start going sideways. Hey, you know what? Yep, this was on me. I made a bad call. Let's cut ties immediately. It's like with parachuting, you know, with parachuting, you're supposed to make the call if you got a bad parachute above your head. You know, at 2,500 feet, you go, Okay, this thing is not working. And you just get rid of it. Right. And is there a risk when you get rid of it? Sure, there's some, but there's a lot more risk to keep trying to get that thing to work. So at a certain point, you got to cut that thing away. And so it sounds like you were able to reach back into some of your parachuting life and cut that thing away. And truth is, I did read this book, probably 15 years ago, sitting in my garage apartment in PB, you know, I talked to Sam about it, you know, because we met on talking about business and life and all these things. And that that did make it have an impact on me. And you know, they're taking, you know, ownership of the decisions you make. And it's nobody's fault of mine where I'm sitting. And I decided to skydive for 10 years instead of building a business. And so here I am, you know, learning amazing lessons. You do have a world record though, correct? That's right. That's right. skydiving world record. I think it still stands. Yeah, one of the largest naked vertical formations ever built. How many people is that? It was nine of us. Yeah, nine of us. Yeah, you know why it's only nine? Well, because most people are smarter than that. This may be true, but I still stand by it. It was a proud moment for me. It's a world record. It's a world record. And just to satisfy some curiosity, a lot of people do ask the question, what does a naked skydiver look like? And so we're all fit, you know, good looking people on the ground. But if you've ever seen a truck driving down a freeway with a poorly secured tarp, you know, just violently flapping and waving, that's what everyone looks like. Yeah, this is gonna feel like a comfortable scenario. It's not. It was not. But it was worth it. And so I know, I know we were talking before we hit record today, doing some kind of a, gonna give somebody a sauna. Is that the deal? Is that on the plate here? So what is it giving away a sauna? A special sauna. Yeah, we have, and Steve has designed a new prefab freestanding sauna indoor or outdoor indoor comfortably fit to, let's say, if it's an adult jocos size, I would say it's a two person sauna. If it's an adult, my size, not quite as broad in the shoulders, I think three of me could fit in there nicely. So, but it's a, it's a very well built, beautiful sauna. And we're going to give it away to one of your listeners. Okay. Yeah, this is a rollout that we wanted to do with you and, and, you know, having the opportunity to come hang out with you. We thought, yeah, let's, let's launch a jocos sauna thing that would be cool. And we're like, why don't we give one away? So we're going to do that. And it's, you know, we'll retail it, I don't know, $14,000, $15,000. Definitely for any of your followers who are friends who don't win. We'll, we'll do a massive price cut for them. But yeah, that's the goal. We're going to cool sauna. Probably one of the most beautiful in the market. That's what Steve does. Mixing is very beautiful. And yeah, be able to launch that out pretty soon here for you guys. So I was just told that we're at the sweepstakes scenario. Yeah, it's going to be an enter to win thing. Yeah, it sounds like you guys have never done this before. We have given things away before. Okay. Yeah, because there's, I don't, you know, there's a lot of like legalities behind this. Right. Such as? Yeah. Like there's a lot of legalities. Okay. Like who can enter, how they enter. It's a really big deal. We've given a little, I've given away stuff at Jocofuel before and at Origin before. And what you think is like, Oh yeah, just have people sign up and know there's a bunch of things. So you're going to have to look at that over the coming weeks. Yeah, we have to make sure that it's my wife doesn't end up winning the sauna. There's all kinds of things. Yeah, that's the stuff. Our attorney, our attorney will make sure. We'll check it out. Yeah. We'll, yeah, we'll, we'll, I guess we'll announce that fairly soon of how people can sign up. Yeah. Legitimate giveaway. We don't know who's going to win it, but someone's going to, someone's going to get an amazing sauna. Especially when Joe here talking about nepotism. Hold on. We know Joe's whole family works for us. So, you know, my sons work for us. They happen to win the Jocos sauna. Maybe we should make it a Jocos signature sauna. That'd be kind of cool. We actually don't even have a name for the sauna. We tend to name all of our, you know, prefabricated. This one's so fresh. We don't know the name. Yeah. So if any, any of your people out there have cool names to suggest once they see this, right? That'd be really cool to you. Yeah. So what I'll do is, I mean, so people can check out the website, right? Which is symmetry sauna.com. And at some point you'll put a, put a banner on there on how to win this sauna. And then I'll, I'll put that out too. So people get the opportunity because, you know, sauna's good for you. Super good for you. Your family enjoys it. Yeah. No doubt. And this one here at the gym, both of them, the men's and women, they're, they're going to use that crazy. I mean, they get used like crazy. I mean, this is, this is probably one of the most ripe environments for a sauna because you got people that are sore, people that are need recovery and people that are cutting weight and you put those three things together. Right. This sauna is just like all the time going to be just getting crushed. And that's why you need high quality and awesome. So that's where we're at. Zach, is up speed. Anything else? We got a chicken. We got this beautiful chicken from Talia. We got a sauna that you guys are going to give away, which is awesome. And then if people want to find you at symmetry sauna.com, you got Instagram and Facebook at symmetry sauna. That's right. And they can check that out and then go check out symmetry sauna and enter this, which will be illegal. All the lawyers will make sure everything is cool. Yes. And that will be that man. Awesome. Cool. Thanks. Right on. Well, thanks for joining us. Thanks for coming down here. Thanks for building out like truly freaking most beautiful saunas I've ever seen. Those are the most beautiful saunas I've ever seen that that are at Victory MMA. Anybody that wants to question that, come and have a look at them and fight whoever's in the sauna. Fight the winner. You guys are having a MMA match. Is it a grappling match tomorrow? It's a grappling match. So here's the grappling match for tomorrow. Steve versus Joe. Steve's weighing in at 190. I'll tell you. 6'2". 6'2", 190. Where are you at Joe? 172. 6'4". Yeah. So he's 5'4". Steve has trained for a one year. Let's just say in the past. One year once a week, 10 years ago, 15 years ago. It was a while. It was a while. That's that could be dangerous. It might be rusty. No one's going to want to watch this. Joe, two years of wrestling in high school. Not only that, my mom was a boxer. So all the combinations she gave to me, like this is no striking, Joe. Oh, that's right. No striking. Biting. I need this face. You need that face. And you guys are getting to train. That's right. One of your coaches with one of the coaches for an hour. So this is gonna be a good enough fight. We should jockel you and I as experts in this, we should do quick predictions on who we think. Come on, the guy sitting right here. Don't make it feel like that. We were talking about this beforehand. And I think Joe's like, I this this this doesn't sound like a compliment. I'm like, this was not. We're not people. That's what we heard. We're not people. No, it's so weird. The idea that people have in their minds about fighting, if they've never actually trained to fight. And even if you got into, you know, some fights growing up, you got in some fights, you have this little sliver of like, Oh, there's going to be some adrenaline. But to watch people that don't know how to fight, especially against someone that does know how to fight, which I'm not saying either one of you, because I don't think either one of you not fight tax. So it's going to be. But the interesting thing is it's cool. An hour of training. See who see who absorbs the most. You're going to have a little bit. Steve's going to have a little bit of muscle memory from his one year of intermittent jujitsu. Small muscle. Small muscle. He's going to have his intermittent memory of wrestling and his mom's genetic boxing skills and getting jumped in the bathroom. There's no boxing here. So it's, did you have a prediction? You wanted to make it? Well, it's going to, it's for you to watch them grapple is going to be like me watching football players try to play beach volleyball. Yeah. It's going to be ugly, atrocious and humorous. We definitely do. Yeah. No, no, nobody. Joe does not need a confidence boost. No. So if he wins, he's, he's off the reservation. Do you, do your kids train Sam? Do you train? They do. I did train twice in the last month. Okay. That's not. But you haven't trained before that? No, I came to the class back in the year. I went for probably a month with Steve and then so now my training is watching my kids. I'm just absorbing it. Yeah. That's the best way to learn. Okay. Or you go so far. My kids still can't beat me. Of course I outweigh them by a lot. Pick a winner. Okay. Be gentle to them. I think here's my predict. I think Steve wins on length and leverage. Yeah. And he's 20 pounds heavier. Right. Now, if Joe wins, it's going to be within about the first 30 seconds by net crank. That's it. I could see that happening too. But based on the rules, yeah, number of subs to five minute round, two, five minute rounds, number of five minute rounds. You guys are going to be so tired. Oh, they're going to be. Yeah. It's going to be humiliating. Yeah. We don't want you to watch. Well, no, no. Jack, go to even up the score. So go ahead and pick your winner. Oh yeah. Okay. So you're saying I should be rooting for you, Joe. No, I'm saying it. I could see any rise you want to. It's going to be a very disturbing and humiliating day for the. Thank you for that. Yeah. You know what I should do is I should have my daughter. Oh, no. No, no. No, that's okay. Two of us on one. This is perfect. I think she'd still win. Seriously, that, I was going to say one more thing. So I've been on a protein journey for a long time and your chocolate protein powder, dude, it is the best life are best. And it uses the monk fruit. It really is. I just got to say it. I do it too many times a day. So I've actually stopped chewing food at this point and just drinking. Jacko's chocolate. That's right. Right on. Awesome. Falls. Thanks for joining us. Thanks for getting after it. Keep getting after it boys. Thanks, Jacko. Thanks, Jacko. And with that, Sam, Joe and Steve have left the building and clearly we, you know, the sauna, good for recovery. We call it recovery. But you got to earn recovery. Agreed? Totally. I had a half hour conversation just now. I was like, going to go with Noah about that. About recovery. Earning it. Now you got to earn it. The rest between sets is only useful if you have some sets. See what I'm saying? Yeah. Otherwise you're just sitting there. Yeah. Look at you. Metaphors for life, bro. Here to tell you. Look at you. So we got to earn the recovery. We're earning it training, lifting, running, sprinting, jujitsu, clearly, surfing, swimming. Just getting after it is what we're doing. So once you earn the recovery, you need to get in the recovery mode. You're going to need the right fuel. We recommend. What do we recommend? Jockel fuel. Yo, look at you. You're going to be on my line. Hey, check out jockelfuel.com. We got everything that you need. We got protein. We got a pro line series. We got the muscle drive. A lot of people are into the muscle drive right now. If you're cutting weight, for whatever reason, maybe not necessarily cutting weight like a weight cut for a fight, but even if you're just trying to drop some LBs as they used to say. If you're on a cut. If you're on a cut, you know, the muscle drive will help preserve and strengthen when you're maybe depleting it of a little bit of caloric intake. So that's a good one for that. The pro series protein. Hey, I'm going to go, I'm going to go, I'm going to talk about this thing, which I mentioned already, but it's, I'm kind of going next level. This, this Greek yogurt thing. Greek yogurt. Hey, this is the thing it's easy to make. Yeah. You just literally dump Greek yogurt in a bowl, put milk in there, some protein, whatever flavor you're in the mood for, stir it up. The powder. Boom. Yep. You're in there. You're in there. Just so good. And you get, there's something like 45 or 50 grams of protein when you do that. So you need protein. You need protein in your life. Check out jockelfuel.com, get energy. We just finished some energy drinks here. Hydrate. I was, I sweat a lot, by the way, even when I'm not in the sauna, but when I'm training, I was thinking about it. I played basketball when I was a kid. Yeah. I don't know if I could technically play basketball right now. Cause if I played in a full basketball game, I think I would just be making the floor just too sweaty. And I'd have to just, there's one thing it's not, you know, jujitsu, that's kind of, I mean, everyone's sweating. So you kind of just deal with it. But in basketball, if I was just fully dripping sweat, like every play under the basket, people would be slips, lying all about, but I get expelled from the game. Yeah. The little towel guy would have to work overtime. But when I sweat, get a hydration. Yeah. Jockel hydrate. So that's what we got. We got all kinds of good, the good stuff for you. Check out jockelfuel.com and get some. Also, speaking of jujitsu, you need gear for jujitsu. Get American made gear. You heard, you heard Sam tell that story. It was like, Oh, you make it in America? Cool. We'll figure this out. Look, is origin gear a little bit more expensive than something that's made by a communist slave? Yep. It is. It is. So that's okay. We're all, we get it. It's gonna be a little bit more pricey, as they say, but it's not that much more. I'm gonna tell you right now, it's not that much more. And the quality is better. And the soul is there. And they know soul and something you got from China. So check out originusa.com and get 100% 100% communist free made clothing. It's true. Also, jockelstore.com is where you can get your, your shirts and hoodies and stuff when you're representing on the path. This one equals freedom. It's a big one. Good. Stand by to get some, get after it. These are all things we can represent while we're on this path, whether, whether you're in the sauna or not, by the way, we got shorts on there. Don't need a t-shirt in the sauna though. Yeah. That's why I said the shorts. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Um, I guess you could. No, right? Not like that's like the protocol, right? No shirt. It's like supposed to do that. Yeah. Or you're supposed to have no shirt. Well, you just be wasting because we could dripping in sweat. So no point. Yeah. Isn't it like skin like radiation or something like this? Like this. The thing, I don't have to look into it. Nonetheless, when you're not in the sauna, you wear a shirt. Hey, might as well represent. Anyway, look, check out jockelstore.com. If you see something on there, you like, Hey man, represent, get something. Also on jockelstore is what we call the shirt locker, which is a subscription scenario. Don't sleep on this one. Some good designs. A lot of times I get the muster or something like this. They'll be like, Oh, I didn't know when did that one come out or whatever. But it came out three months ago, just for that month. So I'm saying, so yeah, you want to get these new, a little bit more creative designs. Boom. That's what that's where it's from. So yeah, it's all on jockelstore.com. If you, if you like something, get something, check out some books, put your legs on by Rob Jones, need to lead by Dave Burke, extreme ownership, dichotomy leadership, discipline, freedom, field manual, leadership, strategy and tactics, field manual, and then a bunch of kids books, check all those out. Also, Eshalon front, we have a leadership consultancy. If you need leadership inside of your company, your team, your organization, check out Eshalonfront.com. We also have online training. If you want to check out our online training, go to extreme ownership.com. And finally, listen or not finally, but I want to mention this. In a couple of days, there is going to be an incredible event in Scottsdale, Arizona. It is Mark Lee's 48th birthday celebration. Mark was killed in Ramadi in 2006. He carried the Mark 48 machine gun. This is going to be his 48th birthday. A couple of his platoon mates, lead Bob Holland, who you've heard on here before, and Jake Kynbom, another stud, frogman, they're going to be speaking and telling you about Mark. So if you can, March 21st in Scottsdale, Arizona, go to americasmightywarriors.org and check that out. Also, check out heroesandhorses.org. Also, Jimmy May's organization beyondthebrotherhood.org. For the interwebs, if you're looking for symmetry sauna, go to symmetrysana.com. They also have the Graham and the Facebooky boha. It's at symmetry sauna. And then for us, you can check out jockel.com. And then on social media, Echo's on there. He's at Echo Charles. I'm on there too. I'm at Jockel Willink. Just watch out for the algorithm. Thanks once again to Sam, Joe, and Steve for joining us and sharing some of those lessons learned of building a business here in America. Of course, thanks to all of our military personnel around the world right now, especially those that are over in the Middle East in harm's way. We thank you for your service and your sacrifice and wish you Godspeed in your work out there. Also, thanks to our police law enforcement firefighters paramedics, EMTs dispatchers, correctional officers, Border Patrol Secret Service, as well as all other first responders. We thank you for your service here on the home front. And everyone else out there, it's not easy. It's not easy to build something. It's not really easy to build anything. It's not comfortable. And it'll cause a lot of stress. But if you stick to it and you put another piece in place, and you put another piece in place, and you put another piece in place over time, you can get that thing built. As long as you keep working. So go out there and keep working. That's all we've got for tonight. Until next time, this is Echo and Jockel out.