BREAKING: Big Trouble for Don Lemon Following Arrest

We got breaking news. Don Lemon arrested. Keeping you informed and engaged now more than ever. This is Sekulo. We want to hear from you. Sharon Post your comments for call 1-800-684-3-110. And now your host Logan Sekulo. Welcome to Sekulo. We've got a pack show at his Friday where live so to make sure you have an opportunity to call in. We can open up those lines, open up the phone lines for you at 1-800-684-3-110. That's it. 1-800-684-3-110. Do we have phone lines? We should. We should. Okay. All right. Just make sure we open those up. We'll be able to call in. Okay. I'm not sure. We'll figure that out. Don Lemon has some breaking news. Don Lemon has been arrested. That's right. Journalist Don Lemon, who stormed that church with the protesters who went in, who got in the face of that pastor, has now been arrested. This would happen last night in his hotel around 11 o'clock last night, I believe, in Los Angeles, as he was preparing for the Grammy Awards, which are this weekend, opens up a whole host of questions. Of course, last week we learned that a judge said he was not going to be, but that changed, obviously, and the federal government has made some arrests. Now again. Then we need to take a step back. My big concern about this is making Don Lemon into some kind of superstar for the left. Because do I think Don Lemon, do I think he's a big threat to anyone yet likely not? In fact, I think he was a pretty irrelevant person, an irrelevant source of news, an irrelevant source of broadcasting for many years now. He said, make me the next Jimmy Kimmel, essentially, make me that martyr, if you will. It looks like that is headed to happen. That is my concern when something like this happens. Not the consequences shouldn't be a pause someone. Look, if he deserves to be arrested, he deserves to be arrested, and so on and so on. My concern is that we make this kind of moment, the focus and not actually focus on the real concerns of what's going on in Minnesota and all of a sudden you now have created a superstar out of Don Lemon. That's something that I would like to happen as he's not been very kind to us in the past. I think this is absolutely what he wanted to happen. Could you imagine a grander scale for it to happen also in your Los Angeles hotel than the weekend of the Grammys that you're there to cover and they're there arresting a journalist? Now look, did he get into face that pastor? Absolutely. Do I think really what he said was egregious and so fundamentally wrong in misunderstanding how the first amendment works? Absolutely. Like I said, I think he was a talking head who was pretty good at reading a teleprompter and now is given a situation where he's not. Did he go after those people and said, look at the traumatized children out there, but that is why protesters are doing this. Essentially, he said that he wants that to happen. He wanted this disruption of the church service to happen. So sure that opens the door to what the legality is. Now, do I think it's a slippery slope also when you start going after journalists. I do because I can see where the shoe is on the other foot and all of a sudden we are talking about the loads more of independent conservative leaning journalists who likely would have been in this situation. I mean, but look, a lot of them have had issues. Look at what happened with James O'Keefe and all of those issues that happened at Project Veritas. It's not unheard of in the conservative movement for someone to be arrested or to have any sort of legal ramifications. That's right. And what we don't know right now is specifically which statute he's been charged with. There was a lot of talk of the Face Act. We can get into that in the next segment. But what is interesting here is that remember, they went to a federal magistrate judge in Minnesota a couple of weeks back and he was not giving them an arrest warrant to sign off on to arrest him. They appealed that decision in a kind of an unusual move to the actual district court judge and the chief judge of that and who said basically if you want to do this, we're not going to overturn the magistrate judge, go get a panel of grand jury. That appears to be what has happened. They have handled a grand jury and we're able to get an indictment against Don Lemon through that process and we don't know what the charge is yet but we have some information we can talk about in the next segment. That's right. Give us a call 1-800-684-3110. 1-800-684-311-0. You always ask for arrest. You always ask for things to happen. Well they happened and how do you feel about it now? 1-800-684-3110. Sports your work of the ACLJ and ACLJ.org will be right back. Welcome back to SecKillow. Like I said, phone lines are open for you. 1-800-684-3110 reporting on the news. Of course, that Don Lemon, after being a part of that raid of that church, the end of it in chaos in Minnesota a couple of weeks back, now has been arrested, likely charged. We are still waiting all the information about it. Of course, this happened at City's Church. You remember Don Lemon made a big point about this as he just happened to be there. He was part of the group that went inside and he went up to the pastor during the service. That's where I guess you could start really considering if he was repeating that service, what he was doing. I do believe in a broad protection for journalists. I know that's going to a ruffle feathers. People won't love that. I do believe that, because look, I think I myself as somewhat of a journalist and having the shoe on his other foot going, okay, well, would they do this to me if I was attending a protest? Now, what I have gotten in the face of the pastor, what I have been celebrating, children being traumatized, absolutely not. I think what he did was disgusting. I think what he did is is abhorrent. Do I think what he did was federally illegal? I don't know. I think that that's a gray area that we should at least be open having the conversation about. I want you to have a flashback here. So let's go back to that interaction between Don Lemon and the pastor in the middle of the chaos that had broken out in the church. For the church, our church had gathered for worship. We should be doing every Sunday. We were interrupted by this group of protesters. We asked them to leave and they obviously have not left. What do you think of it? I mean, this is unacceptable. It's shameful. It's shameful to interrupt a public gathering of Christians in worship. But their reports will say, I have to take care of my flock. Listen, we live in a, there's a constitution, the first amendment to freedom of speech and freedom to assemble and protest. We're here to worship Jesus because that's the hope of these cities, that's the hope of the world, Jesus Christ. I want you to be very respectful. Please don't push me. We're here, we're here to worship Jesus. That's why we're here. Okay. That's why we're here. That's what we're about. What do you think Jesus would be understanding it? We're about, we're about this. We're about spreading the love of Jesus. Logan, I want to actually play the follow up to this as well because one, I think that and I agree with you to a large degree that there is, okay, you don't have to. No, no, I mean, I'm going to get the people on rumble riled up, but here we go with a situation where, yes, we here at the ACLJ are first amendment advocates. We fight for people who want to protest or share the gospel in places that people don't want them. So we do have to look at this and be very objective about it to get to the bottom of it. And what, here's the problem I have because I think journalists do have a very wide ability to report. Here's the big problem I have and I think where he may have problems as well. Obviously, a federal grand jury believed that there was problem or cost to charge him. In that bite, the pastor is trying to get away and say he's saying, I need to go take care of my congregation and Don Lemon won't let him go. And he's even, he's trying to give hand signals like I need to go in Don Lemon, just please don't push me. Already, he is trying to keep the pastor there, which is interfering with the worship service. He is actively engaged in. It's not like he's in the corner filming it unfold. And if he had just gone in and filmed, there probably is less of a case against him than what I see here. And I want to play this follow up bite as well because I think this also is where Don Lemon goes from being someone who is reporting to someone who is participating in and continuing it because this is bite three. And this is an important bite still continuing. After the pastor has said, I need to go take care of them. Don Lemon is still continuing to pepper him with questions. He's trying to be respectful the pastor, but let's roll bite three. Did you try to talk to them as a Christian? No one is willing to talk. Okay, I have to take care of my church and my family. So I asked you actually, but also believe this bill, you don't want to sit in the corner with the worship. Let's give you the worship. I'm always worse, but I'm a Christian. We're here to worship. We're here to worship. Okay. Thank you very much. So that's one of the pastors of the church. So that bite there, the pastor directly asks him, I would ask that you would leave unless you are here to worship. And Don Lemon has a cute response of, I'm always worshiping. I'm a Christian. No, you're not. You're not there to worship. You're not there to participate in the worship service. But Don Lemon doesn't leave. He continues to go and push his microphone in the faces of other congregants. These are from seven more minutes inside the building and then decides to go outside. And then we have that famous look. Oh, the kid is clearly upset, is upsetting and traumatizing, which is the point. He is there as an activist. And yes, he may be documenting it, but he is, it's not just someone there documenting without a purpose and not engaged in. He is engaged in it the entire time. He does not leave when asked to respectfully by the pastor. It is not as if it was outside in an open area. And someone said, leave our protest. It's like, well, no, I'm not going to. This is a continued disruption of the service that the pastor is trying to get under control and trying to ask people to leave. And the journalist here is refusing to also do so. And my concern will always be if this was, again, the other side of the story, if this was a conservative reporter or someone more on the right doing the same thing, would we feel the same? And maybe you would feel the same. And that's why I'm posing that question to you. Would you feel the same if that person happened to be on your side? I don't agree with anything Don Lemon did in this. I don't agree with really anything Don Lemon has ever done or will probably ever do. I didn't think he did a good job at CNN. I think he had a lot of personal issues at CNN that obviously came up. And then I think he has done a poor job keeping himself relevant. I think by the interview we did with Elon Musk and how inappropriate I thought that was. Now again, I have to though think critically and think legally and start thinking about what the ramifications are when there is a Democrat in the White House. And that is surely to happen in our lifetime. I mean, let's just look, the pendulum moves. It has our entire lives. It goes back and forth between Republicans and Democrats and who has been the ones who have been censored the most over the last few years and has been those on the right. And I do always have that tinge of going, but what if I think what he did was wrong? I think we did his disgusting. I don't like him at all. I don't like what he had to say. But there is a concern that I personally have even though you said yes, he's engaging. And I agree he's engaging. I think he's completely inappropriate and off base even as a journalist. Do I believe he's creating a federal crime? That is where the line I am not so sure on. Well, when we look at what the face access and once again, we don't know what the specific charges is. There's some in some commentary. Maybe it's a conspiracy to violate the face act. Maybe it is actually a face act violation. But title 18 US code section 248 is the freedom of access to clinic entrances codified version of the face act. And what it says is the prohibited activities is whoever and then you jump down to subsection two by force or threat of force or by physical obstruction intentionally injures, intimidates or interferes with or attempts to injure, intimidate or interfere with any person lawfully exercising or seeking to exercise a first amendment right of religious freedom at a place of worship. That's the second subsection because it says the exact same thing in section one about obstructing, intimidating any of those same issues with someone trying to obtain or provide reproductive health services. It's two sides of it. One, it's to protect the abortion clinics and then they got it codified by adding the houses of worship to it. And I think I want to go back to your analogy as well. Think about what would happen. Think about what would happen under typically a Democrat administration. If say live action or James O'Keefe, one of those organizations went in, went not just people outside protesting an abortion clinic, but actually entered into it to disrupt the services of that. That would be a violation of the face act. I mean, you could say they did that with some of their investigation and with some of the, you know, when they would put out a costume and where it can have meetings, right? But did they interrupt the services? That is the big question there. And I think that they would probably be charged along with the protesters that broke into the building in that case. That's a hypothetical. We'd have to see how that plays out. Yeah. Someone do have to be careful. But I think once again, when you see him talking to the pastor in that way, not letting him go, when he's saying, I need to go take care of my congregation, it puts him in a different role from reporting to actually engaging in the activity of interfering with the worship service. Yeah. I mean, I see your point. I think it's blurry. We have a comment comment said, come on Logan, a conservative reporter went into, if they went into a leftist religious service, they'd be dragged off and jailed. That's probably correct. And I don't know though that that's good. That's not necessarily what we want. Now I do I think that if they went in and they were protesting and making a scene themselves that they should be, yeah, probably. But if they were going in as just a reporter and they were just asking questions, I don't want that to be what happens because I do believe in a very broad version of a journalistic freedom. With that, we'll continue the conversation. People are saying, you know, that it's because of the eye storm that it hit my head. Things have happened. You know what? Maybe you're right. I'm not on here, defended Don Limit. I'll say that ad nauseam. I'm here discussing the ramifications of limiting the freedom that journalists have. I want to hear from you. We're going to take some calls coming up in the next segment. Go to ACLJ.org for more info. Back to secular. We got a lot of calls as expected. We're going to take them. It is a Friday. And we want to make sure that you guys have an opportunity to speak as well. But will this does tie in to a lot of the rest of Don Limit and everything is happening right now. I'm going to say just tie in to a lot of the work we're working on. That's right. Because today, and if you were watching on one of our streaming channels, whether it be YouTube or Rumble or Facebook, you saw a clip from a previous show when we announced the cert petition. We have filed a Supreme Court asking them to take a case that involves defamation in CNN. And the goal of that case is to try to get clarity, maybe update to a precedent called New York Times versus Sullivan, which has really built up this impenetrable wall for journalists for media saying that they can never really be charged with defamation because there's this intent level that has to be reached. And so for a long time, they have had a much broader, much more leeway than even other people within the first amendment that can be sued for things like this. So this is a case, Dershawitch versus CNN, that the ACLJ brought right at the end of December. Many of you remember that. And if you saw that clip, it's really a landmark case. If the Supreme Court takes it, today is an important day in this schedule as we wait to see if the Supreme Court will take it because today is the day that CNN's response to our cert petition is due. They don't have to file a response. If they do, then we will have a reply brief to their response due about two weeks from now February 13th. However, there's many ways this could even play out if they decide not to. The Supreme Court is looking at this. They could compel them to respond to this. But right now we are kind of eagerly watching the docket on the Supreme Court website to see if and when CNN's response to our cert petition is filed. This I think goes back to what the whole discussion is, is that journalists in the United States right now, especially if you are with a big organization, have these even more heightened protections. It is within the same amendment as regular freedom of speech, freedom of worship. We know this freedom of assembly. But the freedom of the press category seems to have whether it be through Supreme Court precedent or through other actions, this more heightened protection where normal citizens exercising their first amendment right would not be able to just defame. Yeah, people for so many years have called me personally when maybe a hit piece comes out on them or their family or their organization and filled with lies. You're filled with half truths. They've called me in tears often or not sure what to do, spinning out of control because they feel like their lies are being ruined by lies. And you know, in any other circumstance, I'm usually able to say, well, we'll take up your case. We'll let's go work on it. Let's go do it. When it comes to, like Will said, the broad, almost immunity that journalists have, and that really big news organizations have, to spin a half truth or a lie, even when they knowingly know it, to be untrue, has been broadly protected. So I have to have these weird conversations where I bring a lawyer on a phone call and I kind of have to say, especially if you're a public figure, your public figure, there is not much you can do. We can take this to court. It's going to cost a lot of money and a lot of years of your time and likely you're going to lose because as Will said, it has had this really broad sense of immunity, especially in the last decade. But that is where the ACLJ has finally had an opportunity to step in and make these adjustments where at least, at least they can't continue repeating known lies. In the Supreme Court, hopefully we'll take it up and have it, we'll have an answer. And I believe there's a good chance that we win this and we see a massive change in the way reporters are held accountable. So where I do think there is broad immunity in terms of, or there's definitely a broad scale of what freedom of journalism is and when you're there as a journalist and covering what you need to cover, I do think there is an opportunity to limit the lies. And it's not about opinions. A lot of these are stated as facts. They're stated as just what's going on. They're never even caveat it often. Or correction comes out later on and it's you know, buried and never seen. There's a lot that can be done to that. That's right. And once again, I do think it ties into what we're seeing here and we'll get to phone calls. I know lines are jammed, but I want to play this also because it ties back to the Don Leman story where the voicing an opinion and showing where you're at on this issue. And I think it gives you an insight into what his motives were there. But this is bite nine. This is after the fact after we saw what happened after he refused to leave when the pastor asked him to. He was on the I've had it podcast and talked about what his thoughts are on that church of which I don't I don't know if he did any research on that church. If he knew any of the people there, but it's this this casting them and defaming the people there in a wide sense. Now he does say I think you know, it's his opinion. But the the ability for journalists to just feel so comfortable saying this out loud after saying I was just there to chronicle this is shocking. This is bite nine. And there's a certain degree of entitlement. I think people who are you know in the religious groups like that. It's not the type of Christianity that I practice, but I think that they're entitled and that that entitlement comes from a supremacy, a white supremacy. And they think that this country was built for them that it is a Christian country when actually we left England because we wanted religious freedom. It's religious freedom, but only if you're a Christian and only if you're a white male pretty much. And so yeah, I absolutely 100%. It's an intimidation tactic. And you know, I said, I don't understand how I've become a face of it when I was a journalist. I do understand that I'm the biggest name there. And I'm also as I was on with my producers this morning, you know, you and Kylie talk all the time. My producers were saying, I said, how did I become a face of this? And my producers had done. You're a gay black man in America. And once again, this is him ascribing motives for people there on a Sunday that were participating in a worship service. That is white supremacist because they were not at protests on Sunday morning. It is such a twisted, demonic mindset that he so comfortably spews that, you know, religious groups. It's not the time Christian and I practice. And we know that his type of Christianity is worship through journalism, I think, is what we took from the church service. But once again, he's just sitting there defaming and chastising these people on a liberal podcast by saying that they are effectively white supremacist and that they don't want others to have religious freedom. He knows nothing of the intention or the hearts of these people. Yeah. All right. We only have about a minute left and we do have a lot of calls and I want to make sure we do get to you. So in the next segment, we're going to take calls. So stay on hold. If you're not, I don't know how many lines we have open. If any, you can give us no lines open right now. You get to calls, you'll hear someone take a call usually by the time you have heard that. It's about, you know, probably takes 20 seconds for it to get from my voice to your radio or to your stream. Line's probably open so you can give us a call. I didn't want to encourage you to go to ACLJ.org. Look at the incredible content we're providing you there. Absolutely free. When you have these moments where we are going, you know, into a current battle with C&M and courts to change this shield that they have where they can do whatever they want. You've got to be a part of it. This is a big moment. So I encourage you to go to ACLJ.org. That's at ACLJ.org. If you can support the work financially, it's a great time to do it. Make a donation if you can. If not, though, subscribe on YouTube. Do something to caution nothing. Just be a part of the team. It means a lot to us either way. Again, at ACLJ.org, though, you can get engaged. Read great content. Watch great content. And of course, if you can support the work, second half hour coming up, find us on ACLJ.org. Our all social media platforms. Keeping you informed and engaged now more than ever. This is Seculo. And now your host, Logan Seculo. Welcome to Seculo, second half hour coming up reporting on the breaking news that Don Lemon. That's right. Former CNN broadcaster and current church disroctor. Don Lemon has been arrested. Now we don't know all the information on what he's been charged with, but it means a grand jury decided whatever he did was worth being arrested. This happened late last night at his hotel in Los Angeles, preparing for the Grammy Awards, opens up a slew of questions and conversations about journalists. Now of course, they are arresting him because of his engagement in that church protest that happened in Minnesota. That was a two weeks ago at this point, close to two weeks ago. And of course, his involvement there where maybe it's because he was intimidating the pastor, maybe because he was getting involved more than a journalist should get involved. Again, I think that line can get a little blurry. But when I've asked you to call in, a lot of you called in. So let's go ahead and take, is it Kathy who has been on hold the longest Kathy go ahead. I am so sure that because of prayer of God's people and the situation that's going on in Minnesota, and now this with John Lemon, as well as many other things across the country, that the prayer of God's people is being heard. And I look forward to things happening as a result of him hearing our prayers. I just encourage everybody who's listening to do the same. Thank you. Well, and I also think, and I think it is important to point out here. One, John Lemon wasn't the only one arrested. We had the organizers that were arrested pretty quickly after. Obviously, that is a little bit easier to get a magistrate judge to sign off on if they organize this and it looks like a textbook case of violation of the face act or deprivation of rights cases that they charge these various individuals with. But once again, I've seen on social media people be like, oh, I can't believe those people are out of jail. The ones that were arrested. Well, I can, they, they, some were released on their own recognizance. They're not seen as a flight risk. They are not guilty. They are innocent until proven guilty in the court of law. So no, that makes sense for what they did to be released on their own recognizance. Now at the same time, if they were to go do that again, I am in a church, do the exact same thing. I could see a judge putting a higher bond out there or potentially even some sort of other penalties or keeping them in custody for a little bit longer. But little is kept in custody. I would assume not. No, I don't, I assume he's been booked and released. I haven't seen news that he'll be out of court. I think they said some point today. Right. You'll be arraigned. But typically with an offense like this, especially since they're now the definition of violent can be, I was waiting for you to step at it. Right. But they were non violent. They broke the law. They interfered. They intimidated. Like, have I had violent crimes go against me? No, the person gets released within a couple hours. So you know what? That's not unheard of. I don't think that's right, by the way. But that is not unheard of in this country. But also they will have to go to trial and the government will have to prove their case. And that's a good thing. That's the way the judicial system works. There will be a jury in these cases that examine this and come to a decision whether or not they are guilty. And you know what? Don Lemon has one of the best lawyers in the country. Abbey Lowell is defending him. So this isn't, I would say, for the government, a slam dunk case against him, even though I personally believe that he has crossed the line and is violated some laws here. It doesn't mean that he's going to even see, even if he is guilty, a day in jail. No. I think that that's right. Very unlikely. I think maybe there's a fine there. Maybe there's probation. One violent physical obstruction is a category within the penalties of the face act. And that's a fine of $10,000 and not more than six months. I would find it hard pressed to see him serving real time, even if he is found guilty. And I know that's going to make a lot of people mad. Yeah, you watch his YouTube channel, though. It's probably getting that $10,000. That's probably how it's going. He's already raised it just from conservatives hate watching it. So that's that's true. The truth. Phone 9 is out before you rotate more calls, 1-800-684-31-10, or go to ACLJ.org. On the back to secular, we're going to keep taking calls on the Don Lemon arrest. No, we're just watching some clips. And there are some reports that Don Lemon got involved in the protest was part of the chanting was part of that point. You have crossed the line. You are no longer just there as journalists. If you are actually getting involved in the protest itself, again, I don't know what the full scope of the crime will be as Will said. I don't think that a lot of these people go to jail for a very long time. But I do think that maybe is where the line gets crossed. If you're just there asking questions, pushing people, even if you think, you know, the pastors that says that I need to get back to my flock, there is adult responsibility where the pastor could just ignore him and move dawn, but kept engaging with him. So of course, you got to take that into consideration. We got to take some more calls, though. You say there's Melissa on the line three. Melissa, you're on the air. Hi. I am just so glad that Don Lemon has been arrested for the sheer fact of the hassle, the cost, the time, the energy that's going to go into taking or things that will be taken away from him so that it will have to go through this process. I hope that at some point he has some enlightenment quote unquote. I don't really know how he, his relationship with God is really solid based on his book and his behavior. But I'm just really glad that he has to go through the hassle of all these things. No matter what the outcome is, is very obvious. He stopped the pastor from doing his job. That's my comment. I think that there is a hassle of it. There's an annoyance. Now, do I think this is what Don Lemon wanted? 100%. I can't say with 100% certainty, but he would like to be a celebrity again. He loves that we have made him a topic of conversation over the last few weeks and not to say that he doesn't justifiably earn that because the fact that this keeps happening. So as much as the, oh, he has to go through this, the pain of being, I don't think that is what he's thinking. I think he's thinking, my name's in lights again. Look, we have represented protesters in the past. I will tell you, there's a couple different versions of their personality traits. Sometimes they are that type of person, not going to lie. Sometimes you meet one of these people that goes around and protests, even for causes that you agree with, and you may realize their personality trait is someone who wants to be arrested and see themselves on television. Well, and I think to that point as well, the annoyance factor for Don Lemon, the hassle of going through it, his YouTube channel is live right now. And the super chats on YouTube are pouring in. Exactly. He is milking it. Probably thrilled with the reaction of his audience. Now, don't go leave. He wants to go. No, don't go leave. So I think just promoted to switch the channel. He just told me she wanted it. No, he's not even on. By the way. He has a panel of people on, probably his team. Don't say mankind is going to win the title. Everyone's going to flip over. Right. Well, this is not in case anyone got that wrestling reference that is not the same. But there was a question that was interesting here before we go to another call because someone said in the chat on YouTube, Logan, why did you call Don Lemon a journalist? And I think this is where I think we, you and I, will differ with a lot of people that are watching the broadcast is that it is a good thing. The democratization of media and platforms and the ability to get your message out and to report on things, be independent media. He and I, I always take a little bit of an issue with people that say, if you are giving an opinion, you cannot be a journalist. I don't think the history of journalism. I've studied that. I've studied journalism. I've studied the press. I have a master's in journalism. And I do think that by ignoring a very important category in, in media and in journalism, opinion journalism that you shut down the, that entire category, you can be an opinion journalist and still have protection of the freedom of press. Now it doesn't mean you get to violate the law in the furtherance of reporting on your opinion. I think Nicholas Shirley in Minnesota that was reporting on the assumption he had that there was widespread fraud. I think he was conducting journalism. He had an opinion about what was going on and comes from a point of view. I think that that is independent journalism. Now the difference with what he did and what happened with Don Lemon is that when he went to those and the left was outraged about him hassling and annoying the daycare centers, he knocked on the door. And if people wouldn't talk to him, he left. When they asked him to leave, he left. When the police showed up and said, you need to leave this building and they said, why we're just asking questions. They left. They followed the instructions to protect their journalistic activity. That is not what Don Lemon did here. And I think he can be a bad journalist. He can be not good at journalism and he could have violated laws here, but still be a journalist. And I think that I want to be careful with that term that it is protected in some ways as well. Yeah. I mean, because I mean ourselves here, I mean, I wouldn't necessarily label myself in this scenario doing this show every day. I wouldn't label myself a journalist, but I certainly think that we could probably qualify for that label for a lot of people. That's a different story altogether. Now there are, there are more calls we want to get to right now. Yes. There are. We've got a next stop. Our phone lines are a little messed up with the computer, still with the power out. I mean, can you believe this? We got to, you know, also be looking at what's going on in Nashville, Tennessee. There are still members of our team who are going on a week with no, almost a week with no power. So say a prayer for our team, including a lot of people. And look, this is going to be something that has to be investigated and looked at very thoroughly of what, you know, went wrong. We, I have only had power at my house for still a little over 24 hours. It has been pretty chaotic. The internet lines are, that's one of the reasons why our, our normal software isn't working because people in the area keep intermittently just losing the internet because of that storm in the infrastructure. But let's go to Mary Ellen online, five Mary Ellen, you're on Seculo. Oh, hello, fellas. I just want to say, well, first of all, I'm so happy. Lemon was arrested and, you know, this has taken that course. You know, and I agree with all of that. However, I also listened to the left wingers, you know, what they're saying. And I remember them saying, oh, what we didn't, we went in there after the service ended. And my question is, when did the service end? When did the pastor just stop teaching or preaching up at the pulpit? Or, and I remember, when at my own church, you know, when we stay afterward for a per time, that's a sacred time. It's actually not that we know what happened here, which was an interruption of a service. They will claim that it was not an interruption that they just started to ask questions in the middle of the service as if that's a normal thing that happens in traditional church services. But we know that kind of after the time of worship, right, after the song music, and there was a prayer by the pastor in that is then when they, and the organizer admitted it, which I think was worse for her. She was like, it's in barge in and start chanting. She stood up to interrupt the service, which is about a potential pastor who worked there who may have been working for ice. And then I believe the pastor responded with something of this is inappropriate. Please stop. And then, okay, I'll say, and then they completely derailed the service. So even their own words was, it was in the middle of the service and we interrupted it for the purpose of interrupting it, which is whoever by force or threat or force or by physical obstruction intentionally injures and intimidates or interferes with or attempts to injure and intimidate or interfere with any person lawfully exercising or seeking to exercise the first amendment right of religious freedom at a place of religious worship. So the interference there is exactly what they admit to doing, which is a violation of the law. They went into the service and in the middle of it waited to do it. It wasn't even during the songs breaking in. And I do think it was remarkable almost to see the reaction of many of the people in that congregation. Obviously a lot of them left, but that they responded to it not by getting in the face of the protesters. The security team you can see got there, but they started playing music and many of them either started praying or worshipping. They combatted this act of interruption by worshipping more. And I feel like that is the complete difference of when Don Lemon is saying, no, I worship anywhere I am. I'm not here to it. The congregation continued to try and worship and be faithful on that Sunday morning. And all the other people were trying everything within their power to stop them from doing that. Listen, we really got one segment left. I want you to be a part of the show today. We've opened up a couple of lines, probably 1-800-684-31-10, 1-800-684-311-0. When you hear something like the arrest of Don Lemon, former CNN anchor, of course it ties you back to CNN. Who are we currently in court with? CNN. Today is CNN's deadline to respond to R when we feel like it's a groundbreaking case, a surpetition in the United States Supreme Court. We're asking the justice to hear a case where we can finally get to some journalistic integrity even when you're not allowed to just continually spew a lie, a knowing lie, something you know to be undrew because you are, quote unquote, protected. And that is what the ACLJ is in court in right now. So I encourage you to go to ACLJ.org. We have to work financially. We know mainstream media has some deep pockets and we need your help and we could use your support. So go to ACLJ.org right now. We'll be back with your calls and comments last segment coming up. Welcome back to Secular. We are going to take as many calls we can to keep calling 1-800-684-31-10. We'll who we got. Mario, online 4, you're on Seculo. How are you doing, gentlemen? Doing well. I guess we're not going to be making any lemonade around this time. So, I mean, that lemon got exactly what he wanted. He wanted attention. Now he's got attention, but now he's got a self-reconcil and I believe that he just, he went out on the limb for the ref at a journalist thinking, you know, you bend a bar. I think he's breaking it to see how far he can go and he's going to suffer consequences for that. But that lemon, he can't call himself a Christian. Oh, minister, I've been minister 28 years and we know how far we can go. We don't force things on people. We invite them. And what he did was he forced himself to cross over into somebody else's amendment and thinking he's right. And I think he pushed it. He broke the bar. He didn't bend it. He broke it. He knew it. And but he just kept doing it really not shalant. I think he's doing trying to be cute about it. And I was going to suffer consequences for all the other journalists and all the other journalists that, well, my first come, no, you can't cross over into somebody else's first amendment, which is what he did. Yeah, I think you're right. There was a, Mario's a good word. Cute about it. I think that is kind of true. When you listen to his tone and the way he is personality kind of shines in this. When he says, you know, to the pastor, I'm a Christian. I'm a worshiper. I'm always worshipping. There is a tinge of sarcasm through all of it. There's a tinge of sarcasm or there's a tinge of dislike when he sees a child being comforted by his father or by his mother after they just went through a traumatic experience. And again, anyone who's been in a church recently, anyone who's been in your school even movie theater, you know that the back of your mind, especially when you're a parent, is checking where the exits are, making sure you understand that you're, where you're safe and where you're not safe. It's a sad state of reality, but it's where we're at. Don Lemon seemed to gloat and love in it. Now, I'll never question anyone's religious beliefs. Don Lemon says he's a Christian. I'm not someone who's going to be on here. I am not the judge and jury of someone's beliefs. He may very much practice a different form of Christianity than you practice likely, but that is not for me to decide. That being said, there's the two big issues here that I have. And really sort of that third one, which is how far did he participate in this? Did he participate in the point where he got involved in the protest? How do we make that determination? Is that if he's chanting along with people? Yeah, that's it. That's the line. That's so easy and that is so clear. If he's just there and he's asking questions of the pastor and he went in with this group, I don't know if I personally know if that's a federal crime because I don't want that kind of same structure to then be playing back on conservative journalists or just independent journalists or, honestly, mainstream journalists. We actually have an interesting call. I'm going to cut line a little bit here, but this is Linda calling from North Carolina on line five. Linda, you're on secular. Good day. Good day. Hello. How's everyone? Doing well. Go ahead. That is great. Yes. I was listening to your show on the network that I watched. I'm just reading a little bit of it today. Of course, I didn't see the actual protests online. I just look at it from both sides. Maybe I'm born again, believer, and it follows Jesus Christ. I just look at it from, I've heard the comments in the call. I don't believe that is proper to go in an interrupt and church service for people that are there that genuinely love Jesus Christ or maybe people that are unsafe and are going to be brought to Jesus Christ through some word, of course, through the Holy Spirit. However, I'm grateful that I live in a country where, and I studied journalism, of course, in some journalism, lovely, I live in a country where I'm so grateful that I have freedom of speech. I see that. And I love that. I think as a reporter, of course, everything I've read, I don't see where he's made a statement about it. And I may not agree with maybe his personal lifestyle or something that someone would say, but I don't want to ultimately disame him. And I don't think everything that I've watched, watching women over the years, bits and pieces, I don't think that he, I think that he's like most Americans, even born again, believe it's in follow of Jesus Christ. I'm a part of that, I'm tired. I'm tired of people saying things about something small. It's big, but it's small compared to a precedent that has said that years ago he could kill someone and hold the man of nothing would happen to him and just say things like that. Like I'm only cutting you off because we have three minutes left. And he's not exactly what you said. You were going to talk about. I understand it though. Look, I'm not, you've heard my point of view on this. I have been saying a very different thing. Now what I don't like, the kind of got there at the end, which is, well, Trump said this so therefore Don Lemon can say this. I think we have messed up completely in that sort of game where all of a sudden it's like, well, he said these words. So now I get to say these words. He got, Tim Walls got to inflame the protesters. Now Donald Trump gets to inflame the pro, the ice ages. No, I don't feel like we have to play that game anymore. We need to actually look through our own eyes, not through a political partisan eyes. When you look through our own eyes and make a decision, do I agree with anything that Don Lemon has said or will say or probably will ever say about this issue? No, I do not. Do I think that he potentially broke laws? I think we're going to find out. We're going to find out what they were and we'll get to that. Do I think getting involved in just covering something and being an aggressive journalist is enough for that? I don't know. I would tend to say no, but that's not my decision to be made. I do want to push forward though, this notion that we have to each meet up with each other's own aches or each other's own anger, not in this world because what happens is people end up dead on the streets and we can't have that when it happened a year ago to Lincoln Riley or it happened a week ago in the situation, the protest that have happened. I do want to get to one more call, but I have two quick updates. We now know the charges that Don Lemon has been charged with per the LA times. He is being charged with conspiracy to deprive rights and violation of the face act. So two in interfering by force of someone's first and minute rights. So these are the charges according to a Justice Department spokesperson telling the LA times. Also interesting in our Dershwitz versus CNN case, CNN has officially waved their right to respond to our cert petition, which is interesting, meaning they are not putting up a defense of why the Supreme Court should not take it in at this stage of the game. Now, does that because they believe that it's not going anywhere? Maybe. Is it because they are just fine with it moving on and want to try to impact case law? We don't know that, but it is a very interesting development today as we continue to fight in court. Maybe they will allow you. It's like about time. I don't think that's the case. Let's try really quickly to get to Suzanne online to calling from Maryland. Suzanne, you got about 30 seconds, but you're on secular. Okay. The face act provides protection for church and synagogues as sanctuary holy places standing for life. Abortion, surgery rooms are sanctuary protected by the face act standing for death. Are we saying that the media should have equal access to both churches, synagogues, sanctuaries and to surgery rooms where these abortions are being performed? Well, I mean, that is one of the reasons why he is being charged. I also believe that if it were a conservative journalist going in with protesters into a abortion center, they would probably get charged as well. For sure. But the old saying that has been on this by your dad for a long time is that the left worships at the altar of abortion. That is how they got the face act to pass. The left and their worship centers were protected by the face act and the right. That's the only way they got it. You know, well, I saw one comment that came in and said, you said, down limit as a best attorney in the country, but I always say the ACLJ has the best attorney. I said, one of the best attorneys in the country. See, I want some work in the ACLJ. Not what Will said, ACLJ.org.