Hi there, I'm KTown and on this edition of Mysterious Radio. Before we get into your book and the story behind this fascinating man named John Dee, I want you to tell us a little bit about yourself and what it is you do. Sure. So I'm a journalist and an author and this is actually my eighth book. And I have spent the last 20 years, I mean, I'm a writer, so I've written about all kinds of things, including international trade, I've written advertising, I've written, I've covered energy policy and oil pipelines for vice news and boing boing and all kinds of outlets. But one of my most enduring and continual interests has been esoteric spirituality and kind of the occult side of life. So I've spent a lot of that time kind of going into the world's esoteric spiritual traditions and fully immersing myself in them and trying to understand the occult side of life. And if there really are, you know, hidden sides to, let's say, the human mind and hidden sides to life as we know it. And I've had some incredible and beautiful and hair-raising experiences along the way. And this all led up to this current book, because my primary interest in the esoteric world is the Western esoteric tradition, which some people call magic. And John Dee, the subject of this book, is to my mind, probably the central figure of the whole thing. So I wanted to reveal the whole story with this book. Jason, I have to ask you, do you practice magic or anything like that? Yeah. Or have you? You do? Yeah, I do. I both I practice and teach. I have a school called magic.me, Magic with a K, where I actually teach all of these practices online. And I try to demystify them as well, because I think that they're not quite as, I don't know, a lot of times in the past, when people have talked about this subject, they've made it overly kind of spooky, overly complicated, too goth. And I think that it's, you know, very simple, very straightforward, and actually not very supernatural. It's much more about harnessing the unconscious mind to get to where we want to go in life to get to achieve our goals. And so, yes, to that question. Okay, so let's talk about that for just a moment. Why do you think it has such a negative connotation to it? Bad marketing. Straight out. Yeah, I mean, well, okay, it's more complicated than that. But I think that the main here's why the reason is that it has been a hidden thing for several hundred years. The reason that is, is because of religious domination. I mean, for a long time, we lived in a situation where anything like that could very easily get you burned at the stake, you know, in the Middle Ages, or even the Renaissance, where, you know, Europe and America, many places were very controlled, controlled societies, where it was not okay to believe weird things. And because of that, it's been a hidden tradition, and it's been kept secret. And so what that means is when it first started to come out to the public, like when people were publishing books about it and things like that, it was so scandalous and, you know, hair raising in a way, the information, or people had such a superstitious complex about it that I think the publishers who first started publishing material about it really played into that to try and sell books and try to, you know, dial up the fact that it's hidden and it's secret and all this stuff. And then, and then of course, the other reason is that Hollywood has seized on it, and Hollywood is Hollywood. So whenever magic has been portrayed in movies, you don't see the reality, which is, I mean, somebody meditating for an hour, right? And instead, they turn it into this kind of hammer horror thing and, you know, play it up and all of this. So that distorts it, obviously. And then that kind of takes on a life of its own in people's minds. And so I think, I think that's why. But I think the good thing about what's happening now with the internet is now that people have easy access to the information, they can find out what it really is, they can see what it really is with the lights on instead of with the lights off and seeing it in the shadows and all that. And I think that when people really see what magic actually is, they're kind of like, oh, that's not so spooky. That's not so complicated. That's kind of fascinating, actually. Okay, you know what? I hope you don't mind me asking another question, because I want to give them a better understanding as to the type of people that practice magic. I don't believe that it's bad at all, you know, all of it, you know, everything has this good and bad side. But just for you and more about you so that they can get a better understanding of it, are you religious? Well, the simple and well, that's a pretty complex thing, because my religious beliefs have changed a lot throughout my life. But I would definitely say that I believe in, I absolutely believe that there is a benevolent creative force in the universe, whether you want to call that God or not. I've spent times in my life, even recently, where I've been devoutly Christian, I've been devoutly Buddhist, I've been devoutly Hindu, I've been devout Sufi. And so I, the answer to your question is that I've followed many religious paths in my life, and I found them all profoundly beautiful and important and pathways to God or higher consciousness. And, you know, where I live in California, that's kind of frowned upon. People are much more New Agey and less religious. But, you know, and I think that the, you know, people are much more, particularly in Europe, people are much more kind of secular these days. But I guess the actual answer to your question is yes, all of them. Okay, okay, that's an honest answer. Can you be religious and practice magic too? I mean, what's your thoughts on that? Yeah, absolutely. In fact, it helps. I think that, well, to answer your question, I think we have to define what magic is. And I would define magic as a series of practices and beliefs for, and mostly practices, for making direct contact with spiritual, the spiritual side of life. And most of the best forms of magic, I won't speak for all of them because there's so many different kinds. But I will say that most of the best forms of magic, particularly hermeticism or angelic magic or the type of magic that John D. was doing, are about religion. It's a religion in practice, and it's a method for contacting God. And magic involves prayer, and it involves meditation, and it involves personal, moral, and ethical discipline. And magic is really about trying to become, you know, take the reins of religion in a way and turning it into an active daily practice. I think a lot of people who are just mainstream religious will kind of, you know, maybe go to a church on Sunday, and they think they're kind of done for the week. And magic is a 24-7 pursuit, you know, and it's, and there's a lot of Christian magic, you know, a lot of it is putting those things into practice, you know. And even, for instance, the teachings of Christ, I mean, a lot of Christians, nominal Christians, don't actually put that stuff into practice. But a lot of times with Christian magicians, just as one example, you know, it becomes a daily practice. Okay. All right. Now, John Dee popped up on my radar when I was discussing Aleister Crowley with someone. I can't remember who it was, but I thought I wanted to know more about him. So why don't you start off by telling us a little bit about John Dee and who he was? Sure. So John Dee was the court astrologer to Queen Elizabeth I in the 1500s, and he was considered at that time the most intelligent guy in England. He was a scientist. He was trained in all of the sciences of the day, including optics, mathematics, naval science, and the occult. And he collected, you know, five times the books that even Oxford and Cambridge had at this time. And he was also a government servant. And so he's really responsible for a lot of the modern world in a way. And what I mean by that is this is the guy that introduced mathematics to the higher mathematics to the British public for the first time. He's the guy that coined the phrase, the British Empire, which he said was given to him by an angel in a magical ritual. He is the guy who started the English intelligence services, what we now know as MI5 and MI6, in which his code name was 007, which is where Ian Fleming got that for James Bond. He was, you know, responsible for modernizing England and also preparing the way for the scientific revolution by teaching all the people who became the early scientists, the fundamentals of the proto science of the day. And so he's really this crucial monumental figure in European and American history, because a lot of his ideas later found their full form as the foundation of America. But he's kind of been hidden from history, because he also spent almost 10 years, or perhaps even more than that, fully immersing himself in using magical rituals to contact angels, because he wanted to learn the secrets of the universe directly from God and his angels. He felt that he had learned everything he could from human beings and from other scientists, and he wanted to know more. And the way that he wanted to do that was to talk directly to the angels. And he wasn't very successful at first, but he later kind of employed a psychic named Edward Kelly, who was an extremely adept and gifted psychic. And the two men then spent a decade working together to talk to angels. And they wrote down almost a thousand pages of records of what the angels told them. Part of what the angels told them was they gave them what's now known as Anokian magic, which is a much more complicated magical system for talking to angels, which involves what's called the Anokian language, which the angels claimed was the language spoken by humanity before the fall of, from the Garden of Eden, and which is the language spoken by angels and that humans can use to speak directly to angels on their own terms. And just some incredible things came out of this session, out of these sessions, the angels very much wanted the world to be Christianized and to be kind of held under one Christian religion, which would unify Protestantism, Catholicism, even Judaism, Islam and paganism into one world religion that would be ministered by the angels and controlled by Queen Elizabeth the first. That's one of the least shocking ideas that comes comes out of the angelic sessions. They really told them a lot of stuff. So that's John Dee. Alright, so alright, let's break that down further. Okay, because that's a lot there. Oh, yeah. The book is almost 600 pages. So, you know, there's a lot there. Yeah. Okay, so let's talk about this one world religion, because you are describing exactly what many are talking about as far as the New World Order. Right. And so one of the, one of the most fun things about being a journalist, and I wouldn't call myself a historian, but I have written in the sense that I haven't been trained as a historian, but I have written a history book. I am a trained journalist. One of the great things about looking at the actual history is that it's weirder than any conspiracy theory. I mean, when you actually look at what happened, it's a lot stranger than I don't know what people were saying in Info Wars forums or something like that. And this really happened. Now, we could argue that the plan, I mean, D and Kelly spent a lot of time trying to make this happen. They went to the Holy Roman Emperor at the time, Rudolph the second, and tried to convince Rudolph to get on board with this idea of a world religion. They tried to get Elizabeth on board, but neither of these men were taken very seriously by the rulers of their time. Then again, if you take the idea of angels seriously, if you think that they weren't just hallucinating and they actually were communicating with something quote unquote real, or at least real in a sense, perhaps something that's in the minds of humanity already, well, and you then look at the next 400 years and you kind of look at it sideways. Well, the world very much did become, I mean, I wouldn't use the phrase New World Order, but I think that for instance, global capitalism seems to fulfill the same totalizing role as this religion they were talking about. Everyone in the world now is kind of subjected to the same media and the same companies and the same belief systems that come out of the mass media. So there has been a totalizing control system put in place in the world. But I don't know if that has, that directly has anything to do with what D. and Kelly were talking about, or if it just is kind of an inevitable result of better communications technology and the world coming closer together in globalization, which kind of has been the ongoing progress of history anyways. Okay. All right. I want to talk about Edward, what was it? Edward Kelly? Okay. I want to talk about him a little bit later. So I'm glad you brought it up, but I want to talk about the mock year 007. I want to know what that meant for him at the time. So if you take 007 and you write it down on a piece of paper and you make the top bar of the seven extend over the two zeros, which is how it was written. It looks like somebody holding their hand up over their eyes. And that's what it meant. It meant that D was kind of Elizabeth's eye, her spy, right? That she was relying on him to bring her information. So that's why it was 007. Okay. So her literal spy? I mean, he was really spy. Oh yeah. Okay. Yeah. Well, he was an intelligence agent and a lot of what he was doing was not as much spying as it was. I mean, he was more of an academic. So the British government, not British at the time, but the English government at the time was sending him all around Europe to dig up a cult text and cryptography texts that they could use in the war effort against the Catholic world. So D was a keen cryptographer and that was one of his major roles was providing cryptography information to the government. But he really did set up the English intelligence agencies with Sir Francis Walsingham, who was the primary architect of British intelligence, English intelligence. But there's a lot of crazy stories in there. I mean, one of the things they really wanted him to do is go to Europe to find this secret grimoire called the Stegonographia written by a Franciscan monk named Trithemius. And this was a book that claimed that it held magical rituals that would allow you to spy on other people so that, for instance, you would do a magical ritual and contact the spirits that the book listed and that those spirits would allow you to kind of remote view, if you will, or psychically spy on people elsewhere in the world. So that's pretty crazy. I mean, that's kind of Hollywood in a way. But also the book contained a lot of cryptography and so all of this stuff was of great interest to the English government. Okay. All right. Now, let me get to a last small place here. All right. So this is really fascinating about his interest in communicating with angels. Can you kind of break that down to us? Because you said he did it to, I guess, recover this ancient language that we, you talked about humans used to speak before. The fall of the Garden of Eden. There you go. Okay. So what was the purpose of John recovering this ancient language? Why and how would that benefit him? So to understand this, you have to understand how Elizabethan saw reality and what science was at the time. It was very, very different than how we think of science today. So when we think about science today, we think about the idea of progress, right? The idea that we're constantly refining new information by experiments and that human beings are constantly increasing what they know, but they're going into the future, learning more and more and more and discovering more and more through experiments. Now, things were very different in the Elizabethan era. The way that they saw science then was that they believed that the world was perfect when it was created. They still believed that everything had been created by God and that when humanity, when we were in the Garden of Eden, we knew everything because we were close to God. But over the course of history, what's happened is that human knowledge has degraded and that we've lost more and more of our original knowledge because we've strayed further and further from God. This is how the early scientists of the Renaissance saw the world. So in the Renaissance, the idea was not going into the future to discover new information. The idea was going backwards. We had to uncover what we already knew but forgot by going backwards in time to the source of all knowledge, which is God. So this is how John D. approached the idea of science. So for him, if you take that belief system seriously or if you're a Renaissance person, this was your belief system, it would be an easy logical leap to then say, well, the best way to learn more then would simply be to get an open line of communication with God and failing that, then at least to get an open line of communication with the angels, the various ranks of angels proceeding from God. And if you followed the proper methods, then you would be able to speak to these beings and then these beings would just fill you in on what humanity had forgotten. And a major central part of this was the idea that the best way to do that would be to learn the language that angels spoke, which was not just the language that angels spoke, but the Ur language of humanity, the language spoken before the fall from the Garden of Eden and also before the fall of the Tower of Babel, which is the story in Genesis about how humanity spoke one language, but then ended up falling and the fall of Tower of Babel, but it was then destroyed by God for the sin of the arrogance of trying to reach to heaven. It was supposed to be that tall and that when it was destroyed, then humanity began speaking lots of different languages. But before that, we'd only had one language. Jason, I want to talk about Edward Kelly, who is this psychic, and you also called him a criminal psychic. So I'm wondering why you said that. Okay. So when Dee and Kelly met, Dee was about 50 and Kelly was half his age, he was 25, and he was a wandering scryer. So a scryer was a common profession at this time in England. And it was somebody who was kind of a wandering fortune teller, somebody who was adept at using a crystal ball or a piece of crystal, staring into it, which was a method of going into an altered state of consciousness or a trance state, and then kind of giving prophecies or otherwise performing mediumistic tasks or shamanistic tasks. So this was a common profession. There were tons and tons of scryers in England. Kelly was one, he was a particularly gifted one. But he came with a bad reputation. He had his ears cut off for forging coins. He was an alcoholic. He had been accused at least of using necromancy to revive corpses and graveyards and perhaps rituals to speak to demons, which it's likely he did engage in. It's written in the records, him talking about it. But he came to Dee by way of a talent scout where Dee had kind of retained the services of a talent scout from the English court, who was for a fee kind of auditioning psychics for him, scryers, bringing them to Moort Lake where Dee lived so that to see if they if they had the skills. And Dee had employed several scryers by the time that he met Kelly, but he hadn't gotten particularly good results from them. In fact, not really good results at all. But finally, Kelly was sent to Dee by this talent scout. He arrived at Moort Lake, which is in southwest London. And Dee writes in his diary at the time that the the moon turned blood red the day that Kelly arrived. And, you know, he kind of showed up in a cloud of brimstone, as it were, Dee's wife did not like him at all. But Dee tested him out and tried to do some basic magical rituals with him and was so impressed with the quality of the information that Kelly delivered, particularly that it linked up with a lot of stuff that Dee had read already in his books, that Dee was very impressed and proceeded to employ Kelly full time for the next seven years, and kind of work him very, very hard and get him to do scrying, you know, sometimes two to three times a day. Part of that is part of that, you know, Dee became quite concerned with Kelly's spiritual well being and was constantly trying to get him to make a full conversion to Christianity and to repent for his prior activities, including courting with demons and that type of thing. So the two men formed a very, I would say, deep spiritual partnership. There were a lot of interpersonal levels between them and and it wasn't as simple as just that Kelly was Dee's employee. There was, you know, they went through a lot together over the next seven years, as you might imagine, you know, two people doing something like that. All right, my special guest tonight is Jason Louv and we are discussing his book, John Dee and the Empire of Angels. And I will have more for you when we return right after this. All right, we are back and now Edward Kelly was accused of necromancy. Was this and you said that this was actually written down in the diaries and everything is are the diaries and the the scrying sessions somewhere where people can actually view these or hear these or Yes, they are. And that's one of the amazing things about about Dee is that he took such meticulous records. It's very rarely, perhaps almost never the case in these types of situations. Now in the records, it's the so the necromancy part was probably more urban legend that followed Kelly and it may have come that story may have come from Elias Ashmole, who was an antiquarian book collector that wrote about Dee and Kelly after their deaths. So that part may be hearsay. However, Kelly definitely was doing magical rituals to talk to demons. And he there are many parts in the Dee and Kelly diaries, where not only does Kelly confess to this, but the angels accuse him of doing it. And they're they're very displeased with this fact. And this is an important point for a lot of reasons, one of which is simply that, you know, people have all kinds of ideas about what magic is. But in practice, there are so many different kinds of it. And, you know, people who do magic for perhaps dark reasons are very, very different from ones who do it for reasons like Dee and Kelly during these sessions where they're trying to talk to angels. And, you know, somebody who's trying to talk to angels is very, very different than, let's say, a Buddhist Lama who's doing Buddhist practices or a Hindu who's doing Hindu practices or a Native American who's doing Native American practices. These are all very, very different things. But our culture doesn't really have a lot of knowledge about magic. So those details unfortunately get lost in the shuffle sometimes, but they matter quite a bit to actual practitioners. And so, for instance, in this case, Dee and Kelly were speaking to angels who are a very specific class of being, and the angels were not very pleased with some of the spiritual errors that Kelly had gone through or made previously prior to his contact with the angels. I want you to clarify angels for us because most people know there are different types and kinds of angels or whatever. What kind of angels was he communicating with exactly? Well, classically, there's nine orders of angels. This was written down by Pseudo Dionysus, the Arapagi in the 5th century, 5th or 6th century AD, where he classified nine ranks starting with Seraphim, who were the most powerful type of angel, caribam down to thrones and dominions and powers and principalities and then archangels and finally angels being the lowest rank of angels as a broad category, these comprising people's personal holy guardian angels and so on and so forth. So throughout the sessions, Dee and Kelly spoke to beings that probably were all across this hierarchy, but they weren't any different from the angels that are mentioned in the Old and New Testament. They spent quite a lot of time speaking to the archangels Gabriel and Michael, the primary, the first angels they contacted, the archangels, as well as the archangels Uriel and Raphael, all of which are mentioned in the Old Testament, with the exception of Uriel, who comes from the Apocryphal Book of Enoch, but who was still worshiped in some Christian denominations or at least spoken of in certain Christian denominations, in the case of Uriel, the Anglican Church, and I believe the Ethiopian Orthodox Church as well. So those are the four primary archangels, but they contacted dozens of different angelic beings, many of which appeared as female, and they were really, and they contacted several other beings. I mean, they spoke to who they believed to be God at one point. The the Hora Babylon and the Antichrist from the book of Revelation appear in a couple different places. Demons appear and then are then attacked and rebuked by the angels. It was a huge cosmic mystery play that they underwent over those seven years, much of which was concerned with the angels trying to save the two men's souls. Now, John, so he wasn't doing it specifically to contact demons? No, absolutely not. I mean, John Dee was a devoutly Christian man. All of these sessions were begun with deep and humble prayer to Christ. And what happened, however, over the sessions is a lot of times the angels were showing up and then saying that the two men were already surrounded by demons. The reason for that being simply that they were two men living in the world. And from the angels perspective, the world is a fallen place, which has many evil influences. So there were lots of parts in the sessions that were that angels kind of clearing the influence of demons off of the two men, particularly from Kelly, because he had consciously engaged in that previously. But also the angels at many places say that when the angels are trying to work and get good things done, the demons show up to try and foil their efforts. So there are many places in the diaries where the angels are having to deal with the malefic influence of demons, where the demons are simply trying to slow the angels down and getting their work done. So there's a lot of places in the diaries where there's a battle between good and evil. But John Dee and John Dee most certainly was on the side of the angels. And Kelly, after the first few years, becomes increasingly purified and humbled by the angels and more saved as it were within the Christian context. So if I want to ask your personal opinion, and then you give me your thoughts as to whether or not you found out anything about John Dee's thoughts on this, you did say earlier that the angels instructed him on ways to bring about a one world religion. I want to know, first of all, why would that be beneficial to us? Well, the angels perspective was simply that humanity had fallen. And the angels were incredibly frustrated with human beings and are frustrated, I think, in the sense that, you know, well, you have to look at it from their perspective, where the God or the angels are constantly trying to get humanity on the right path. Right? If you look at Judaism and Christianity and Islam, all these attempts have been made to get human beings reconciled with God instead of continuing to sin. But humanity, because humans have free will, constantly chooses the easy way out and to, you know, follow the path of least resistance. And this greatly frustrates the angels. And I think that more specifically, the angels were not particularly pleased about the Protestant Reformation. They were actually furious that the church had split. They were furious at Martin Luther and John Calvin. However, they also felt that the Catholic Church was corrupt. So they understood that there was a reason that the Reformation had happened. But they thought that it was a great evil that the church had split instead of trying to simply reform itself. And so from the angels perspective, they kind of had had it with humanity. And they also said very clearly that the end of the world was at hand. And the end of the world, by the way, is not necessarily, you know, a specific date. It's not an event. That's certainly not how I look at it. It's not like, you know, on this day that the heavens will open and the good will be raptured and the evil people will be thrown into hell. I don't see it like that at all. I think that the end of the world is, as others have said, an ongoing process. You know, it's something that may take several hundred years to unfold. But I don't think that I think all we have to do is turn on the news or look out the window to see the degraded and fallen state of at least the majority of human beings. And so the angels are kind of looking at this and saying extreme measures need to be taken. And so I think their idea of a world angelic religion and government was them saying, you know, it's time to wrap up the show. Like we need to directly kind of almost force the salvation of humanity because time's getting short. Oh, wait, wait, wait, that's that's shocking right there. All right. So basically now that was going to actually be my next question for you. Was he trying to force or bring about an apocalypse or a second coming? Well, the angels were and are. Okay. And, and yeah, absolutely. Because I think that the idea there being that the, you know, the end of the world is a literal thing. And, you know, I mean, if you are a Christian, and you take it literally, well, then this is a good thing, right? It's a good idea. Now, I'm not saying I'm not saying I agree with this. But I'm saying that, you know, the perspective of the angels, it's not okay, let me rephrase this. They're not saying that they're directly trying to cause the apocalypse. And this is something that I know he and magic is often accused of, particularly after the writing of a guy named Donald Tyson, who makes this argument. What the angels are really saying is that the end of the world is here. It's already happening. It's already in progress. And it's going to happen one way or another as the way that they put it is the age of the antichrist is here. And I, when I think about the antichrist, you know, I would say that, you know, the antichrist is not a person. The antichrist is a something that's in the spirit of humanity, right? The antichrist is a persuasion. It's a way of looking at the world. When we value money and things and electronics above human beings and our connection with other people, when we value false teachings, rather than the gospel, perhaps when we, when we value, you know, simply when we begin to see other human beings as things to be used, that's the voice of antichrist. That's the antichrist speaking within the human soul, right? And so I tend to look at these things much more, I won't say metaphorically, but much more subtly than, I don't know, perhaps a Christian conspiracy theorist on YouTube who says, Oh, you know, the antichrist is a person, that type of thing. I don't think it's anything that literal. That would be way too easy, way too easy. It's not like left behind, you know, what we're talking about is the subtle forces within the souls of human beings. So the perspective of the angels is that the age of antichrist is here. Now they're talking in the 1580s. That's just a blink of time, a blink of an eye between then and now. I mean, we're talking about 400 years. That's not a whole lot of time. That's, you know, I don't know, what is that? You know, a couple dozen generations. So if we consider the end of the world as an ongoing process, what the angels are saying is we're trying to take extreme measures to you know, hold up their end of it. I mean, the book of the revelation, the book of revelation talks about angels doing everything they can to save humans and also to, you know, punish the evildoers. And so I think that's kind of where the angels are coming from. It's not that they're trying to make it happen. It's more that they're saying that it is happening and they're trying to, you know, throw humanity a life preserver, perhaps. Okay. All right. Interesting take on that. Now, I want to stay on that for just a moment because you're telling me that he was getting this or this direction from angels. So and also earlier, you said that he praised to Christ and all that stuff before he ever engages in any of this stuff. Christ is the central figure of all these angels. He's the balls. He's running things. So is John in his mind, does he have something written down saying that he thinks that these angels are doing this by the instruction of Jesus Christ? I would need to go back through the records to give you a specific quote and page number on that. But there's many points at which they're, they see visions of Christ. But what I will say is in many places in the records, it seems as if Christ is an absent figure and that's not that he's not involved. It's more that he hasn't come back yet. Right? It's more that, you know, Christ has died and that Christ will come again. But the second coming is being prepared by the angels. So it's not like Jesus is just showing up and giving directions. It's more that the angels are preparing the way for the second advent, if that makes sense. Okay. I want to give you a moment now to tell my listeners where they can find more information about you and your books. Yeah. So the best place to go is JasonLuv.com. My last name is spelled L-O-U-V. V is in Victor. So it's one word, JasonLuv.com. You'll be able to see all of my books there. You'll be able to see magic.me, which is my online school for magic. And you can go directly to the website for the book, which is called JohnD and the Empire of Angels at johnd007.com. And you can also, if you're so inclined, sign up for my, sign up for my free class on magic, which is a seven-day course in which you get tons of podcasts and guided meditations and videos on how to meditate and all the basic skills you need to have visionary experiences like this, like the ones that Dean Kelly had. And the best way to get that is to text the word shaman, S-H-A-M-A-N, to the phone number 44222. So that's the word shaman to the phone number 44222. You'll get a text back asking for your email. And then it will, as long as you provide your email, it will then send you these, the seven-day course thing. But please, please follow me on Twitter at JasonLewis. I'm trying to get that a bit higher. So yes. Absolutely. All right, Jason, I really enjoyed this conversation. Many blessings to you and I appreciate your time. Me too. Thank you again for having me on. To find out more about our guests and all others, please visit our website at mysteriousradio.com.
