NFL Draft Roundtable: Nate Tice and Fran Duffy Talk Through the First Round, Bears Pick

What's up? Welcome in another edition of the Hogan, John's presented by old national bank. Every play matters whether it's on the field or in your financial life. The best teams win by delivering excellence at every level. Old national bank where relationships and results matter. Member FDIC. Welcome in another edition of Hogan and John's. We are without John's. He is somewhere around Disney world, I believe in the Orlando area and joined his spring break. All the rest of us grind away inch closer to the NFL draft. I don't know why Nate Tyson, Fran Duffy on the show today, both wore green, but you guys look good. So you didn't get the text. I know. I know. Just ignore the day. Yeah, just do not disturb something. And I wore this cream color. I wear way too much probably. Guys, I'm really excited to have you on. This is awesome. So we are just a little over two weeks away from the draft, still sorting through a million possibilities. And the bears aren't in a different position this year because usually we're talking to you guys this time of year about another top 10 pick or who's going number one overall. And this time around, they are at 25 later on in the, in the first round. So it's been a while since we had to do this. So I thought it'd be a good idea to kind of walk through just the first round. I hope this doesn't take too long. You guys are being very generous with your time today. So we'll try to do it quickly, but I want to get both of your perspectives. Both of you have, you know, just done extensive draft work, have your big boards ready to go. And, and I just think it'd be a good idea to kind of basically do a walkthrough through the first round and see where we get. So it's not just to be clear, everybody listening. This is not necessarily a mock draft. We're not trying to make the, you know, make the actual picks or anything. I'm sure we'll do that coming up here in a few weeks. We'll, we'll all be doing that way too much. Just more of discussing the scenarios that could play out for each of these teams. So if you guys are ready, I'm ready. Let's do it. Should be a lot of fun. It's going to be a fun one. Let's do it. It's a mock. Fernando Mendoza. Yeah. Type of thing. That's what we're doing here. Also the intro music, like the waiting music, I feel like I'm in an oceans 11 movie. That was like, it has a lot of that kind of like din, din, din, din, din, din. Yeah. It kind of, yes. That really got me going at eight a.m. on the West coast. I feel like I'm about to do a heist at the Bellagio right now. Well, let's see if we can do a heist for the bears and see if they can pull off something big with somebody falling to 25 or maybe a trade up, which is something we talked about on C HGO yesterday. We'll see what comes into player. Obviously first pick seems like a foregone conclusion right now with the Raiders. You know, they did bring in Kirk Cousins, Fernando Mendoza. I'm sure you guys have been talking about that a lot. I love the pairing. I think it's just like perfect. Any of you, either one of you, Nate, I'll start with you, the quarterback guy, anyone going out of limb. And I already know the answer to this question because I know you both have him number one on your pick boards, but we're not doing any Daniel Oskie takes here saying that they should go after Ty Simpson. No, I'm not. I even have Nussmeyer ahead of Simpson just slightly. So I do. That's even crazier than that. But no, the Mendoza is the guy. We already heard that he's working out with greasy, all that stuff. And I think it's a perfect offensive fit as well, even if he hasn't worked a lot under center. No, I think this is locked and loaded one, one Pittsburgh in about two weeks from now. Yeah. Unlike Ocean's 11, I'm not anticipating much drama with this Vegas situation. I do think it will end up being Fernando Mendoza. One one. Alright, well, we'll move on quickly because we, we, we think we know what's going to happen there. Obviously, let's talk about the New York Jets at number two. A lot of different. Well, I'm curious what you guys think, but I let's just go through some of their, their needs. Obviously they need defensive backs, offensive line, always, always a need for them. I mean, they, like, they're the Jets. They kind of need everything. So what Fran will go to you on number two here. Where, where do you lean in? What do you think could happen here with the number two pick? Yeah, I think to me, this is where like the, the human dynamic comes into play with this with when you look at the Jets and the situation they're in right now, we know how volatile leadership and decision making can be from the top down in that organization. Right. And so obviously year one did not go well for that coaching staff and they made a bunch of changes. To me, I've always been a little bit cautious to say like, Oh yeah, our Velrice number two, definitely because of the projection that goes with that selection. You're saying, especially if he's going to go as an edge rusher, a position that he has not spent a lot of time doing, that's a, that's a, that's a big risk. That's a big swing to take. And so I've always been like a little bit wary of just putting that in in pen. And in the last 48 hours, we've seen Daniel Jeremiah, we've seen Peter Schrager from ESPN come out and say like, yeah, like, I think this is going to be David Bailey. And so I'm kind of feeling that that might be where the seas are going there. I feel like David Bailey makes a lot of sense. I know I, when I do a mock, I really do like, Oh, what I would do, but then also try to inform it like, well, I would do this, but they lean this way. So that's why I go like this, you know, there's way or two picks we'll talk about with that. And I think though you and I talked about right before we went on right now, right now was that there's lack of consensus with this class. So to feel like, Oh yeah, it's reset to feels it's a dangerous game to assume that for our world, at least, you know, it's just mock drafts. But I do think that it's like just assuming that is just a fool's errand because there's no consensus on who even is where you even have people have Mendoza. Like some people don't have them at one one other big boards. They have them at like nine or 14, like later than you would think. And some people have recessed the top defensive guys. Some guys have Bailey, some have sunny styles, some have killed downs. So like it's Kelshark Falk if you talk to me and friend. But it just if you, it just all depends on who you talk to. So I agree that DJ and Peter who are very plugged in and they kind of do these mocks with that kind of flavor of informed by the league. I'm not going to wave that away that they went Bailey Bailey. And I'm going to be okay noted. And it makes also sorry, this actually been something I'm marinating on actually want to talk with you about this friend a little bit is while I think Reese's defensive fit, actually he fits more defenses in the modern NFL than most people assume Aaron Glenn's defense actually is one of those that he doesn't. And like where it's not as hybrid as maybe you see with these other defenses right now, like I would say a majority of the league. And that's actually been marinating on me. It's like Reese actually fits in a lot of defenses. The one he doesn't is Aaron Glenn's in New York. And that's actually been now that they're leaning Bailey that's starting to actually make a little bit more sense to me as I've kind of like marinated on this stuff. Yeah, to me, it's the way I've kind of I've kind of crystallized for me when it comes like the RVel Reese fit with a lot of these defenses that yeah, like a lot of defenses can utilize an RVel Reese. And I think the the analog I think of of the days in Detroit was like a Derek Barnes, right? Where all right, like he kind of has that ability to flex between different roles. And I do think that a lot of defense is yeah, you could find a spot for a guy like that. But is that worthy of number two? Right? Like that to me is like you can find guys like a Barnes was you know, a mid around pick coming out of Purdue. You know, there are definitely scenarios and situations where yeah, like Leo Chanel. Yeah. Oh, yeah, that definitely fits. But it's the same conversation we had with Jaylen Walker last year is like, is that role worth worthy of a top 10 top 15, much less top two or top three selection. So it's a it's a difficult conversation to have, especially considering this class. Yeah, I want to ask you guys this question before I forget about it, because it really applies to anything that could happen before the Bears pick at 25. But highly, I mean, talked about a lot how the 2027 draft class is considered to be much stronger than this one. Do you think the teams are going to be hesitant to move up in this draft? I mean, there's two schools of thought, right? It's there's fewer guys for us to go go get. So if there's if we're running out of guys, we need to move up and go get one of those. The other school thought is yeah, but we don't want to give up future draft capital because next year's class is so good. Where were Nate, where do you fall on that? And I mean, do you think there's going to be fewer trades in the first round because or potentially more? I actually don't think there will be as aggressive teams. But that's the thing. There's always a sucker at the table. You know, that's kind of just how the league is. That's why I think it's so much fun about sports is even as I do think teams are getting smarter. There's still just other incentives in play teams feeling a little smoke under them. You know, it's feeling a little heat on them last year with the Jackson Dart move. Dave was gone already. You know, and the Joe Shane has been demoted essentially and everything except for title. You know, so I do think that that's why I looking at it's a great question because we always do this all next year's class, but really next year's class is pretty good. It's not just quarterbacks, receivers, there's a couple edges, there's tackles, at least one I can think of, you know, maybe more than that. But so I was because I do a too early big board and I do a top 25 and I already have 14 guys I know I'm locked in on last year at this time. I had about three. But put that in perspective. I just got I just scour from Mendoza. You know, like I was like, you know, you're deep. It was deep dives last year. So I do think that will make teams less aggressive. I do I do think that. But again, teams get latched onto a guy. Patriots are talking about moving up for a tackle. But you just don't know when the runs are going to happen and who's going to anticipate the run. I will say if there is a move up, I don't think the draft capital will be as extreme as we see in previous trades. I think everybody's in unison with that. Yeah. And to me, the way I always look at situations like this too is to Nate's point from earlier about the lack of consensus looking at this, you know, also in the outside, we look at it and it's like, oh, it's a weak draft. And so to me, it comes down to how each individual club views the tier breaks, right? And so let's say Nate and I are in a draft room together and he and I are on the same page when it comes to Keldrick Falk. If there's a team out there that views Keldrick Falk as being in the same tier as say Arvel Rees or maybe just a bucket below and you get he gets to 11 he gets to 13 and you're a team in the 20s, you may say, yeah, this guy is a top tier prospect. We want to be able to move up to make sure we get it because he's the last remaining in that tier. That's going to up the ante a little bit. I do agree though that you're probably less likely to give up 20 27 capital. You're more focused on giving up the capital that you have this year for this year's cash of picks. You know, it's possible. Oh, I'm sorry. No, I was just gonna say it's possible the bears are one of those teams in that position where they're sitting at 25. Like maybe they're, you know, the Panthers just for example are on the clock at 19 and they're like, Oh man, we're running out of guys. What do we want to do here? And then that's where I wonder, you know, teams in the 20s might want to trade back at that point. If their first cloud of players are all gone, but again, you need a taker to do that. And that's where I think the quarterback conversation might come in a little bit later as we as we move through the rest of the first round, the teams that picks into 20s should be that don't need a quarterback should go tie. Simpson is amazing. He's so good. Isn't he guys like you guys should really swoop up and come get them because that's really what you're trying to do. There's such a glut. From players like 15 to 50, like they're to me at least as far as a tier. So it's like, yeah, if you move back from 20s to 40s or something, it's not, you're not getting to a crazy different kind of tier break. Maybe tackles a couple of positions. All right. Just in the interest of speeding this up a little bit, at least in the top 10, let's kind of do this in chunks here for the next few. So we got through the Raiders and the Jets got Cardinals at three Titans at four Giants at five Fran, what are you thinking about the rest of the top five? Yeah, you know, to me, I think when you're looking at Arizona, I think that's the first team where I'm thinking that might have a for sale sign to try and move out. And it just depends on who would potentially be trying to move up and who would they be trying to move up for. As I'm doing my mock draft exercise this week and I'm looking at, I'm like, all right, like for Arizona, I'm looking at potentially offensive tackle. I think that's the most prudent move when you look at their depth chart right now, they put a ton of resources into the defensive side of the ball last year and basically ignored offense altogether. So I would say, yeah, right tackle makes a lot of sense, but somebody opposite Paris Johnson, that said to our point, you know, the point that we've been making, if there's not a huge difference between three, and let's just say for sake of argument number 12, you know, where the Cowboys are sitting right now, the Cowboys want to be able to move up. If you don't think there's a huge difference between three and 12, maybe you're taking less than what the typical asking price is to move down in that type of scenario. I don't know that, you know, if you are Arizona and you are Monty Asenfort and you're feeling a little bit of that smoke underneath you, you might say, yeah, we need a blue chip player regardless of position. Let's take Arvel Reese here. I do think Reese is a decent fit for Nick Rallis and like that hybrid defense and all the different ways they use those guys. I've got a little bit more comfort there than what I saw in, you know, with New York last year, but it's an interesting exercise. With Tennessee at four, I do feel like that's, if it's not David Bailey, because I feel like Bailey is the most solid ish rusher. If it's not Bailey, if he's off the board, then I do think that it ends up being offense and a lot of the smoke signal there seems to be for Jeremiah Love at number four, which would be interesting taking him in the top five. And then the Giants is a, that's a tough one, man. Like if love falls to them, it would be so silly. So silly. But it feels like that's where they would go. Like Arizona, I do think they would be more prudent, maybe like invest in the offensive line, continue to try and take swings there. But it seems like it's, it's either love or sunny styles at that spot, which would be very interesting, certainly for the Giants and for John Harbaugh. Yeah, the Will Anderson trade, which is actually kind of perfect for this, the Cardinals traded from pick three to pick 12. So it kind of actually works perfect in your example. And they traded the Texans trade their 12th pick, the 33rd overall, so the first pick of the second round. And then a 2024 first and a 2024 third, so a future first and a future third. Don't think you're getting that. There's no Will Anderson of this class. And I saw it to kind of dovetail off what Fran said, just kind of like, yeah, that, that would make sense for the Cardinals and the Titans to me to move back. And one of these teams has to first, Hey, you guys want to jump up? Like that would be what I would, I'd be picking up the phone because even though their needs are obvious, the players there aren't just that perfect round hole in the circle, you know, a round hole, a sphere. Oh God, I'm butchering it right now. It's square bag in a square. How about that? But no, but it's, it would make a little bit more sense because it's like, Oh yeah, Francis, my old go, my old know, now that's a little rich, at least to me for like the Cardinals at three, yada, yada, yada. Well, looking at the NFL IQ thing that they have going right now that is Francis is the most mocked player. And I know, Fran, I know you keep track of kind of like he consents as mock. So we'll be interested to see what they do there. Yeah. I like research styles there. Even if that's like Reese would be amazing there, even though they've already enforced the defense by just like the floor, new head coach, he wants to make sure that offense is going a little bit. You know, so that's why it's just, you know, there are a couple of variables kind of going against each other right now. The Cardinals are hard to figure out right now. Like they're just like even walking around Phoenix last week at the Otters meetings, it was just like, like Michael floor could have walked right by me and I would have been like, Bears fans should be so mad because just letting Kyler go to the Vikings for Batman and just like, they should be actually really mad about what the Cardinals did this off season a year ago. Here's a top 20 quarterback for free. Don't even have the trade capital for it. I know, I know, I do think that that obviously makes the division tougher, but at the same, I don't know, something Kyler, I think raises the floor there a little bit, but he just never really scares me probably as much as maybe he should. He'll annoy you. That's a good one. He'll be annoying you more than anything. He annoys everybody. Yeah, I think, yeah, I know his team and other teams. Yeah, exactly. Yeah, I think, I think one of the commentators say this too, I think Cardinals are watching a lot of Texas film this off season or this season. They're going to be watching a lot of Longhorns, I think this season. There's a couple teams that are going to be watching a lot of Longhorns this season. Yes. Longhorns, you find the watch. I like watching the Longhorns. All right. We got, all right, let's go to the next sort of chunk of teams here. So at six, the Cleveland Browns, seven, the Washington commanders and the saints. We'll just kind of do these in threes right now. The saints at number eight, Fran, where you at with these, with these teams? Yeah, Cleveland, it's the no secret there. They're trying to create a law, a soft landing spot for their next quarterback of the future, the future quarterback of the future with that team. And so whether it's the tackle spot or a wide receiver, like that's, it's really, all right, what do you want to do with this spot? And then with the next first round pick. And so you're going through all the different combinations there. Honestly, like if Maui Noah is there, if it does feel like a need, I'd be sure what's your take on what you think the identity of that like run game and like that offensive line, do you feel like it's going to be more at you like downhill present? Or do you feel, you know, perimeter, like horizontal action, like, you know, outlevered you that way? Because I feel like that could inform the offensive line and they start trying to select. Yeah. Well, that's the thing with a Monk and he kind of does adapt to what what what his personnel is, I would say at Georgia, which had kind of some mixture of offensive linemen, some talent and everything, they did a little bit of mixture of everything. I think with Derek Henry, they're trying to lean into his zone, but then their personnel was a little bit more heavy. And so they're trying to figure out that always felt kind of they got away with it a little bit, but wasn't always idealistic, at least to me. To me, I think Monk and is going to be more of an at you gap guy. I think he's going to emphasize size, even look at some of the guys that they have, they're a little bit a little bulkier, and a little bit more powerful. So but that's the thing where they're at, like no matter the Browns are kind of easy to figure out for me with both their picks, it's like, skill, receiver and alignment, and some order, like it might be carnell Tate at six, and then they wait for the linemen that let their second pick. Or to me, which I feel like a lot of people have had this now is Monroe Freeling, because he's a left tackle and they've gotten a lot of kind of versatile guys in this free agency class or this off season, which they needed to do because their offensive linemen got nuked this off season because of cap or contracts, I should say, they got a lot of guys are tackle guard swing, guard center swing guys, they need true tackles. And I think Freeling at this point is that that true tackle that I think is worthy of this type of pick, even if it's, you know, there's some projection needed, but I still think the last two months of Freeling film is very, very good. Yeah. And there's been like smoke with a media reporting with them in like Caden Proctor from Alabama. And so I think that that's who like the the at you nature of what they're trying to build. And it's probably a little rich for him at six as well. And so are they a trade down team? Yeah, I think we went Proctor and our last mock, we did carnell Tate at six and then Proctor at Proctor at the 20. That's exactly that's I feel comfortable with Proctor in the 20s. Yeah, maybe high teens, but that's it's hard for me to get too high with him just because of what I see. Yeah, and with Washington, it's very difficult to at seven, because to me, like I look at the depth chart and I'm like, I like probably could use another passcatcher support Jaden Daniels, but it feels like everything is pointing towards defense for them when you know when you're having conversations with people. And so if sunny styles is off the board, you know, do they go with a corner or do they take Caleb Downs? I think that's because to me, I feel like they've done a good job of addressing pass rush here. I don't know that they need to necessarily force that with some of the investments they made in free agency. And so, you know, I'm looking at like potentially Mansour Delaney, is it Gerard McCoy or Caleb Downs? That's kind of where my head's at with Washington right now. Seven. Yeah, defense. I feel like them being on the Jeremiah Love thing is just to me, they shouldn't. They also signed a couple vets. But I do, which actually I kind of liked, but no, I think they should be defense. And I actually think they're sitting pretty where they can get kind of the best of the rest, if that makes sense, where they're sitting at seven. It feels like the next, wherever this Washington, New Orleans, Kansas City can kind of get that last guy of this kind of maybe tier or at least assumed tier, I should say. Yeah. And you know, they were a team that if you're a Bears fan, trying to think about the edge rushers trying to fall, the commander seemed like a team that would have been destined for an edge rush, but like, as you mentioned, Fran, their additions, Odafe, Owe, uh, Glebeon, uh, Cheson, is that how you say his last name too? They spent the 11 million per year on him too. Like there's, they've, uh, they've done enough. Now sometimes that's a smoke screen, but you know, it would, I guess it would kind of be a little bit more surprising. And right now, Caleb Down seems to be the guy that's mocked to the commanders the most and Quincell, the guy too, like defensive guys, like Banes probably not on their board as high, you know, him and Sala are going to, or Titans are going to be length, length, length. So to me, that's Bailey, that if he's there, maybe one of the hybrid guys, if they're there, um, Reese, I mean, um, who doesn't have the longest arms, but so it's just, this film is so good. And so to me, that's like, you kind of can start narrowing down exactly. Keldrick Falk is more live than I think people assume. Like those, when these teams have these kind of size parameters, you can start narrowing down maybe with their selections are going to be like the Packers are always pretty easy to figure out. You're like, oh, this receiver they're not looking at this tackle. They're not looking at, okay, it's these five guys done, which will help us to hear it a couple of picks. We'll talk through that. Yeah, exactly. Yeah. Um, and then I guess with New Orleans, New Orleans is really interesting. To me, I think this is either a pass catcher or a pass rusher. And, you know, I think when you look at Mickey Loomis, honestly, this is, this has been a pretty easy team to kind of peg in reason. It's purely traits and premium positions. They, that's where they go in round one. Like you want high RAS scores at impact spots. And so I'm looking on it. Honestly, this would be the ceiling, I think we're like Jordan Tyson. If like, if carnal tape goes at six, Jordan Tyson would be, I think like the shock of the top 10 and he, and he goes here at number eight. Like, I would be, I just think when you look at the depth chart of wide receiver, it is, it is barren right now. It's Chris Olave and not a ton else to work with. And so it would not shock me if they ended up surprising people on when Jordan Tyson, I guess you could look at Macaulay lemon, but if I'm looking at like traits and like the stuff that I don't know that Macaulay lemon, it gets ruled out there by Loomis. So, you know, for the same, same reason, Reuben Bain, like I don't know in terms of thresholds. So, uh, Keldrick Falk, I think makes some sense there for New Orleans as a surprise pick, but I think they would love it. If carnal tape, uh, the, the Saints historically like love Ohio State players like they love, you know, Brian Heartline, they work out for them. Yeah. Right. Exactly. Right. Keep going back to the well. Uh, I think if carnal tape was there, I think just, you know, that's, that's a, you're putting it in Sharpie. No, that's a great point. And they like youth too. Like, like players that are younger and that make Falk big time there. That's also too with the Browns. Browns always go youth. They always go young. Power five. Yep. Yep. Well, we're not used to seeing the chiefs in the top 10. So, uh, it feels like a curve ball this year. What are we thinking for Kansas City at number nine? This is it. Go anyway, but, uh, they should not go. Like, I don't know actually, I want them to go offensive skill player at some way. They have to get faster and they have to get bigger. They could go downs on defense and that would make sense to me and get their new version Eric Berry. Um, you know, and I think he'd be a lot of fun and that spags defense also fits it very well. That's the thing with downs too is he's kind of a, we always group these safety dynamic safeties maybe together and he's maybe a little different than the Kyle Hamptons of the world. Um, he's more of like a, I keep using almost like a soccer term centrally located. You know, he's a safety box player as opposed to a safety nickel slot. That's how I view him anyways. That's perfect for this defense. That is like idealistic for the chiefs defense. Now, having said that, we've been able to make a lot of work with different types of safeties on day two and day three. Do we really want to spend pick nine on a position that we can kind of fun, you know, make fungible? Um, uh, and so I think to me it's receiver, um, Kenyon Siddique maybe, but that's a little rich, but I think they need offensive juices. How I put it, I don't see a line. I think their old lines pretty set as much as and I like their old line where they're at. And I think as much as Andy Rita will address that always, but I do think to me it's offensive skill player. Yeah. To me, I like, I was trending O line D line with Andy and you know, just kind of looking like, all right, like I think Fano would make sense. I think that Maui Noah, like you could convince me that though, especially with Jaylen Moore, who they signed last last off season, he's already entering a contract year. So all right, like is that, uh, you know, do they try and get the next right tackle there? Um, but Ruben, like if Bain falls, I think this is a team because they are, they are historically a team like size thresholds, like throw the wall out the window. They have been purviewing the smaller guys. Like that's not, that's not an issue there. Um, so I, and to me, like we think of the players, you know, Nate, you earlier in the terms of like comparing Ruben Bain to Brandon Graham. All right. That's an Andy redraft pick. I saw Vinnie Curry over the summer. I think that's an Andy redraft pick. I think of George Carl Aftis as a cop. That's an Andy redraft pick. Uh, even like thinking though, who's the kid that they just, that they just left the inside, outside defensive linemen. Oh, Leo Chanel. Yeah. Uh, no, he's kicking inside the three technique. Why am I playing it on his name? Um, just left this off season in free agency. Uh, well, yeah, you could also fit as well. Yeah, I know another one. Uh, but yeah, when I look at that skill set, yeah, to me, like the Ruben Ruben Bain definitely fits there. Uh, in terms of Mike, Mike Dana, thank you. Oh yeah. Mike Dana. Yeah. Yeah. Like Mike Dana. I'm like, yeah, like that's a skill set that, that Andy and Spax have utilized in that defense. Cause even like Chris Jones wasn't like, he, well, he fell over and his stuff came out when, when he tested. Uh, but no, he like, but he, it wasn't like he was like a 999 RAS guy. You know, like they, they're willing, I know he was a high second round pick, but yeah, they're willing. He kind of does his own thing, uh, for better or for worse. Um, like, I mean, look at the Xavier worthy in the first round, which what I would have never done in a million, gazillion years. And like, but that's the thing. That's what he, he, Andy Reed kind of scouts his own way. Yeah. What? And so if you're, if you're looking for Ruben Bain in the fall, it seems like this is a spot where, um, if he does make it past this point, that would, that would certainly be interesting. All right. We need to take our first time out. Hang tight guys. When we come back, um, we're, I just kind of want to talk about some players that will do it sort of in chunks. Can you see them falling past this point? Where would, you know, where would they go? Uh, as we try to inch towards a pick number 25 for the Chicago Bears. 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So if you're looking for that perfect gift, you want to impress your friends and family and with an epic meal the next time you host, go to goldbelly.com and get 20% off your first order with promo code bears. That's goldbelly.com code bears 20% off your first order. All right. Continue our walk through the first round of the NFL draft, which is just about two weeks away, a little over two weeks away. We've got through most of the top 10 here. We'll continue to kind of do this in chunks, but we got the bangles at 10, which we didn't really talk about much yet. Dolphins at 11, Cowboys at 12, Rams with that falcons pick at number 13 and Fran Duffy and Nate Tyson here with us as we walk through the first round. Let's do this with a couple guys. Like what friend, what's the farthest you could see Keldrick Falk falling? Let's see, who else who we depends who you ask. Yeah. I think like we're starting to get into that spot here in the teens where a guy like that, we did touch on Bain already a little bit. Who else? I mean, even like Jeremiah Love, do we think he's definitely a top 10 pick? Like guys like that, I'm just trying to think of prospects that will potentially fall because that starts to shake things up and encourage trades and things like that. I think, and this is just from all three of us have been doing this for years and covering this event for years. To me, like in terms of who is a surprise player that could fall out of this range, to me, I think it would be Caleb Downs, the safety from Ohio State just because we typically see safeties fall. Derwin James fell, Kyle Hamilton fell, Nick Minowari fell, Malachi Starks fell. Like those guys consistently are like, oh yeah, this is a top five, top 10 player in the draft. And then they go 13 and then they go 18. Right? For one reason or the other. So to me, I think Jeremiah Love does end up in the top seven or eight. I just think that at the end of the day, we've seen with the moves that teams like New Orleans and Kansas City made, addressing the running back position in free agency. I think that that points to the fact that yeah, they didn't think that they had a shot at Jeremiah Love. And so I think at the end of the day, Love does end up going that high, whether it's four, five, six, seven. Downs is probably the most likely to fall. I think as we get to Cincinnati here, this is another team that like historically, and the Cincinnati Bengals have a very unique draft process just because of they've got a very streamlined scouting department. That's a very, you know, they have one of the, they have the smallest scouting department. A fish. Yeah, very efficient. The coach is extremely involved for that reason. And typically when you see their decision, it's premium positions, big schools, trade, see, you know, your good Schmarz Stewart last year, you know, the example of that. But, you know, to me, I think you're looking at corners. I think you're looking at rushers. If Caleb Downs were to fall to the spot, I think that he's certainly on the table. But if they've got an equal grade on Mansour Delain or Jermad McCoy or Ruben Bain as downs, I think they go the other way and downs false past it. So that's kind of how I view the Bengals right now. Yeah, I think they, it kind of keeps happening just when we do it. Like I had Bain originally had some mocks there, but then because maybe he was like the antithesis of Stewart, yes, short armed and knows actually how to play football. Yes. And so I was like, maybe that would be a thing. But also, yeah, they like traits. And if you even look at their guys, even the offensive line, they always go for big, long guys for it's actually coming along now. I really like their old line coach kind of a sidebar. But no, I would say corner kind of keeps happening in my mocks. And that's why kind of mocks can kind of be fluff and PS and whatever. But actually as we get home into it, it's kind of fun to run through the situations. The team's doing it for a reason too. And that's what kind of keeps happening with the Bengals pick. It's delaying, delaying, delaying, McCoy, McCoy delaying, like, you know, just always kind of happens. We think this is where there could be a run on corners. When you look at the dolphins could draft a corner, the Cowboys could draft a corner to. Yeah, that's where it starts. Yep. Yeah. Because I think the dolphins, yeah, these three teams in a row are very corner needy. Like they don't have, I mean, the dolphins could go any position. I go, yep, makes sense. No, but I do think that all three of these teams, yeah, corner, corner, corner. And that, but to me, it's kind of two guys delaying and coy and then, and then just a little, a little break into the next kind of group of guys. That's to me how I look at it though. Makes sense. All right. So then the Rams is we kind of skip ahead to potential corner run there. The Rams at 13, it's still kind of amazing that they're picking 13th, pulling off that trade last year to move back and taking the Falcons pick here. What do you, what do you think in there, Fran? I'm going to look offensive line. Like a right tackle is kind of like, you know, I'm keeping that on the back burner. They definitely keeping that one holstered there, but same pass catcher. Like I just think that they're pushing chips in and saying, let's go one more run here. So Mackay lemon, it feels like all signs have been pointed to like, Oh, this is the floor for Mackay lemon. Keep him in LA. Yeah. But I think Mackay lemon is the one, especially honestly, like with the Pukin is Pukin to cool stuff. And you know, in the last few weeks that has come out, like I just think wide receiver with Devante Adams going into a contract year and getting older and getting dinged up down the stretch last year. I think this is this is prime Mackay lemon territory here. Yeah. Tackle is what I want them to do. Right. Exactly. But maybe like, answer Fano here. Yeah. Fano, any of the time like Caleb Lomu, who I like, I like maybe more than other people. I know Fran's a little lower on him, but Fano, I like Mike Max, a Hennisher, Blake Miller might be a little rich for him. But we're now getting into the tackle range. Because that's what this kind of group of tackles are. It's not these true blue chippers. They all have some blemishes. And like you say, like Fran, I respect a ton, Dane, I respect a ton. All of us are walk all over the place with where we have our tackles off its alignment. That's just what this class is. I'm doing a show with my dad tomorrow. Very curious where he leans. Some of my football dog was from him. So probably some of the big guys in this class, I'm sure he's going to like a Hennisher from Arizona State. But yeah, so check that out tomorrow. But I want them to go tackle. But man, there's so much smoke about lemon in particular. Matt Harmon, who does receivers with Yahoo, who I do football 301 with, he actually threw out Casey Concepcion. In my head, I had Denzel Boston, but also that was kind of samey with Puka and this might be a little rich for Boston. Having said that receiver in some way shape or form Kenya, it's a dick if they want to get real frisky. Go to Oregon tight ends in two years in a row, but we'll see. So because they have some tight end contracts coming up after this year as well. So offensive skill player, I think is more live than or I think very live. Is that the same pod you did last year with your dad where you guys just went through all the offense? That was awesome. I highly encourage people to check that out. We're going to do it again. I sent him even more and he asked for more today. Actually, I was just texting him right before the show and he said, he said, can I watch some centers? And I was like, yeah, I gave you three and he goes, no, I watched those. Do you have any more? And I was like, okay, so Gary for some day two center talk. So in that show as well. Well, if you miss, yeah, if you miss Mike Tice with that booming voice, you know, talking ball, make sure you tune in for that pod because I remember last year's it was, it was fantastic. All right. Next chunk of teams, the Ravens at 14, the Bucks at 15, the Jets back on the clock at 16, two with that Colts pick. And that's like, if you're the bears, you would love to see another quarterback sneak up. I just feel like I've seen this play too many times where, you know, you go out and you get your veteran and then you're also quarterback desperate. You're everybody in your organization is desperate. And like, we thinking that for the Jets there is, you know, do they, do they reach for one of these QBs? No, I don't think so. Yeah, I think that I think QB is down the road to watching all the Texas film watching next year. Yeah. And like looking at their three first round picks and just throwing them up in the air like money on a bed. Just come on. Come on. I think they screwed themselves by getting a little too good with Gino. Like, I don't, I mean, by too good, I mean five, five wins. But I think, you know, I think there's a couple of teams racing to the bottom this year. So they might have screwed themselves a little bit there. I don't necessarily disagree. I'm just throwing it out there because, you know, we just, this just happens too many times in this league. Like, you know, you get desperate teams that run this playbook where they're going to go get their veteran and they fall in love with the quarterback. They just talk themselves in the one and they make, let's call it stupid decisions. So I'm just, the Jets are prone to stupid decisions. I just think it needs to be discussed at least as a surprise possibility, despite the fact that everybody does have their eye in 2027. And I would hope the Jets do too. Yeah. I just think with their coaching staff too, it's like, they, I mean, they got a lot of mercenaries this year. They're, they're yeah, them and the Cardinals, man, they're kind of, they're kind of like, it feels like this year's a punt and then we'll, we'll address them in about nine months from now. All right. So let's, let's talk NFC North here then as we get past that Jets pick the lions and Vikings pick back to back at 17 and 18. Could have a lot of ramifications and what, you know, who, who continues to fall towards the Bears at 25, obviously in the same division. And both of these teams could, the way the NFC North is, both of these teams could easily bow. No one would be, I don't think anybody would be surprised if any of, any of the teams in the North ended up winning the division next year. Maybe the Vikings would be the most surprising, but you know, you can make a case really for, for anyone. What are you thinking here with the lions and Vikings picking back to back? I think lions are trenches, whether it's tackle, they're, they seem to be moving. Oh my, why am I going to say P'nell? P'nell, I want to say P'nell. I don't know why I was trying to say P'nell. Penn, a Sewell, Oregon, right tackle. I could tell you got drafted at 20. I could tell you what high school he went to. Can't think of his name. But anyways, he and his brother actually is a bear, correct? No, but yeah. So he is moving to left tackle, which actually opens up so many more of these other tackle candidates like them to me, a Hennisher from Arizona State is, I think a perfect range for him. I know it's a little rich, but that's what this class is. I think he's a great athlete. Come to right tackle, work on her Hank Fraley, but tackle, or if you look at their edges, a little dire there, you know, it's not a lot of depth on their, at their edge spots. So like edge to me, whether that's a, might be a little rich for these type of guys, but the TJ Parker's of the world, the Zion Young's of the world guys, I really like when a perfect world I wouldn't take till the early second. But again, that's what this draft class is. This is the range we're talking about. So to me, it's a kind of, again, ass kicking edge, like a run stuffing edge or a tackle. And I actually think they're sitting kind of pretty for either of those spots or what they want. Yeah. To me, when I'm looking at Detroit, I do think line of scrimmage, whether you're talking offensive tackle, you know, if Juana is the best player on their board, like if he falls, I think that that certainly could fit. But I think getting someone to run alongside Aiden Hutchinson, they are in that prime territory there. So if it is a TJ Parker, to me, this is a Keldrick Falk potential landing spot as well. I think when you're looking at, you know, their trends over the course of Brad Holm's tenure there, half of their picks on day one and day two have been 22 or younger, like, you know, on the younger end of it, it's one of the highest rates in football. Cause everyone thinks of them. It's like, Oh yeah, like they're going to buck traditional value and it's the, you know, play speed over time speed, which is true. But it's also like, yeah, like they still want guys that have some traits and they still want guys that are younger, like they're, they're, they're trend that way. And so Falk to me, I think checks a lot of their boxes. Oh, that would be a great pick. In my head, he's already gone. My head cannon is already gone. So Falk would be a great pick. Yeah. So I agree with you. To me, I look at, you know, Detroit, I look at Carolina coming up here, that there are a few, there are a handful of teams here that I think make some sense for Falk. And that would be one. But then, you know, from an offensive line standpoint, like, I could definitely see this being a Kaden Proctor team. You know, I think that he fits a lot of the areas as well. So to me, this is a line of scrimmage to pick. You know, meat and potatoes type of selection here for Dan Campbell, but they're happy to eat their meat and potatoes there. All right. Then the Vikings, the most mocked player to the Vikings seems to be Dylan Thienamid. Red flag. Red flag. Red flag. Red flag. I miss something with this. It's unbelievable. So last, last year, this is the same thing that happened with Jihad Campbell to the Bucks. It was like every mock driver, they go, you need a linebacker job. I was guilty of that. Yeah. Well, that's the thing is like any time that happens, that's a maybe like, all right, that picks not happen. It's so rare. The only time I could think of where it actually came true. And this is just because the nature of that team. Mike Tomlin and Najee Harris, Pittsburgh Steelers, like when they, everyone had that and that's exactly what happened, but rarely does that actually solve to me like not Thienamid here. I was gonna say, or Joe Douglas telling everybody, he was drafting Zach Wilson that too. Right. Yeah, right. Yes. That was the other one. That was like, that was the most locked in number two pick I have seen in ages. Probably since RG3 came out. That thing was so locked in. Yeah. Yeah. For me, anytime there's like outside the top 15 where there's like, oh yeah, this is the consensus pick, it very rarely happens. So this is a sneaky like Kenyan Sidique team for me. Yeah. Like like Jermaine McCoy, like one of the corner teams. Yeah. To me, like, you know, it's, you know, yes, I get it. It makes sense. You know, you make Neil Warren, the State of Toledo, like I think addressing that position makes sense here. But my, my ears are perked up that it would not be that position. And I think, you know, how I view Florida is I think people forget, I'm not saying these people I'm talking to right now, but people forget Flores is a bell checker. And so like there's, they've, they hold different positions a little bit, or different styles and place styles and archetypes a little differently than others. To me, so corner is extremely live because I mean, this stuff on Gilmore, you can go down the road of all the guys they've taken, but also detackle like in like, they tried to do it last year and the coaches are running the show there right now. So it's to me, it's like, okay, who are these coaches prefer? And then I was like, all right, well, if KOC is hands on the trigger right now, which it might be because him and I think he's got a little chip on the shoulder right now. Maybe he does go off into skill guy and go, all right, F you watch this, like I could see that. But I could see them going detackle. That's why I've been so weird, like where everyone's just going safety, it's like, you can argue a lot more positions for the Vikings and they would make more sense. They could go receiver because Jordan Addison is not doing great off the field right now. And I think the contract's coming up as well. TJ Hawkinson's beat up. So that's what I totally agree with the Kenyon Sadiq stuff. So they have a lot more live positions. I think they're people are assuming right now. Yeah, Nate, I'm glad you just said that because I'm, you know, just trying to read the room in Minnesota right now. I'm with you on that. Like the pressure seems to be on KOC now. Like, you know, you got the GM out of the picture. Everybody when we talk about the Vikings these days, right now, we talk about two things. We talk about how the quarterback didn't, the big quarterback swing didn't work or isn't working and how good that defense is under Brian Flores. So when I think about those two things, the pressure to me goes on Kevin O'Connell. You can live with what you already have on defense. I get it's not perfect. You made some mistakes. She's probably spent too much money up front and for agency instead of dressing it younger, but Brian Flores is still running that side of the ball. And you know that any given week, that's what teams are going to be worried about. So to me, as much as these mocks keep going, safety and cornerback, I'm like, I don't know, man, the pressure is on Kevin O'Connell right now to make a big swing on offense and make this work with Kyler Murray right now. Yeah. I went Kade McDonald in our last mock just because I like the run stuffing detackle, but that might be again a little rich. But again, this is this draft class, but like I had my finger over Kenny on Sadiq and Denzel Boston, right? I was just like, I don't know. Like I could see that. Then just going like, no, no, we're going supernova on offense. Me and Kyler, let's go, buddy. Like, I don't know. Maybe it's me doing fan fiction, but I can kind of just read that a little bit of how the NFL is. Kevin O'Connell trying to create like that soft landing for Kyler. And it's like, all right, what are some of the things that Kyler does well? All right. He comes from Arizona, where like a lot of those, those access throws for Trey McBride and like that usage with Sadiq, like I think would be very, very similar. Sadiq to the Vikings is a sneaky pick for me. That's a fun one. That's a phone. All right. We have to hit our last time out, guys. I promise we won't take too much of our time. We're inching towards the Bears pick and, and we will hit that, but we have to hit this last time out. We'll be right back. Don't go anywhere. Whether it's on the field or in your financial life, the best teams win by delivering excellence at every level. That's what old national bank does. They believe that every play matters from every day checking the longterm planning and commercial banking. Old national bank is here to build momentum and help you move the ball forward. It all starts with a plan tailored for you by professionals that you trust from simple tasks to bigger financial moments. You can count on old national bank to coordinate your needs with steady knowledgeable guidance that brings clarity and confidence to each step. It's a partnership designed to help you feel supported, not just today, but well into the future. So give old national bank a call. 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So plan ahead again, 20 to 30% of motor vehicle fatalities in Illinois involve alcohol. We're talking about fines, arrests or worse, life altering injuries or fatalities. Again, if you feel different, you drive different drive sober or get pulled over. It's not a game. So we're kind of calling everyone's bluff on Dylan Thienham and going to the Vikings. So he's still out there. I want to just point out some guys that we haven't totally locked in. Do we think we have Spencer Fano locked in at this point? Oh yeah. He'll I think so. Yeah. Okay. I just wanted to double check. Kate and probably though you guys both think can be in there in the 20s. Yeah. So yeah. So he's range to me. Yep. We really haven't, I think we had Peter Woods come up in conversation maybe once. So he could go by there. He could tension. He definitely could be here at this point for sure. I like that's the thing. His talent starts here, but I think the league hates him. So that that was something I'm kind of keeping in the back of my head. I think his tape was a little lazy this year. And it was very disappointing because he was my preseason number one guy. And he just kind of, I mean, he the tape, there's still the flashes like incredible flashes. He's so quick. There's not a lot of big guys, but he just doesn't finish place. His past rushing, if he gets locked down, he doesn't have any secondary moves with sounds arbitrary. But if I'm taking a guy top this high, you better have some juice and better have some sustained bear and some of that might be the lack of arm length doesn't run the 40. I know it's a detackle, but that's just weird. Why are you running a 10 instead of a 40 just the and again, this is just pessimistic view. You build a case against him kind of thing. And that to me is I'm just reading tea waves. It seems like the week kind of is just like finding a lot of ways to knock him. So I think he goes a little lower than even I would be fine. This is right where the range I'd be comfortable taking him. I had him at 20 on my last big board. I recognize the town but recognize the red flags and I 20 to the Cowboys. No, just on big board just are just all got it. Yeah, not on a mock. Yeah. Okay. I think I'm going into 20s. I think in our last mark, though, I think Charles Charles had him going to like San Fran or something. I think so we have the Panthers at 19 Cowboys at 20. That's the Packers pick, of course, Steelers at 21 Chargers at 22 Eagles at 23 brand. I mean range for let's say Peter Woods in this like fits for any of these teams with Peter Woods. TJ Parker. We still pretty much have out there, right? Even locked him anywhere. He's one of those guys. It's honestly, it's we could talk about it because it's his Clemson teammate like watching that Clemson defense this year. Obviously, it was disappointing output for everybody. But I didn't think that the the play personality didn't change and waiver for TJ Parker. Like to me, he was the same guy we saw last year with just like the with worse production. Whereas as the season went on, I saw the same things that Nate saw with Woods where it was like, yeah, like he got pushed off the ball more than what we saw in previous. I know a lot of that had to do with like the change in body type. They had him cut like 10, 15 pounds going into this year. So they know I think that had something to do with it, but also just like the some of the loaves that popped up did not show up previously with him. So they that's it's very different when you look at some of the film. But to me with TJ Parker, kind of the same guy all the time and you're keeping it on the fairway with him. You know, I never quite saw the high ceiling that others did coming into the year, but just like just a rock solid player across the board. Unlike Woods where it was like questions in the pre draft process. Parker goes to the senior ball, does everything down there, makes plays every day plays in the game. Like, you know, the whole deal is like no questions from like the intangible aspect of it there when it comes to TJ Parker. But you know, I think looking at Carolina here at 19 and I do think that yeah, hey, this is the team that wanted to give Milton Williams $100 million last offseason. I think that Peter Woods keeping the local guy there in the state of Carolina. I know that's been a point of consternation with them in recent years is like, Oh, you never take Clemson players. You know, I think that that's that's definitely a potential outcome here for Carolina. That said, I'm kind of thinking pass catcher here. This is another sneaky Sadiq team. I think one of the receivers like is this the you know, is this a Jordan Tyson or to me like Concepcion also a local kid. You know, Omar Cooper Jr. I think that this makes sense here. So to me, I'm looking pass catcher and I'm looking potential defensive lineman here for Carolina. Yeah, Cooper's got a lot of steam. It's and I it was one of those guys I liked because I watched so much Mendoza this year and I'm like, Oh, him and Serrat really like these two. Like really like these two. Okay. We're on the same page, right? Day two guys. Okay. And then the draft process starts. It's like top 20 top 15, go to the jets. And I was like, and I liked them. And now I sound like a hater when I'm just like, Whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, like not that high guys. So I don't know, but the league seems to love Omar Cooper just again, reading tea leaves and everything. But yeah, this kind of range is where a lot of the receivers are very live. A lot of those kind of secondary tackles are very live. I'm glad you brought up the Panthers one, like I think they're a sneaky Sadiq team too. I think that's where we had them going. And our last mock, I really like Mitchell Evans, the other guy they got from Notre Dame last year. But Sadiq's a different flavor. And I think that's what they're saying is like, All right, Bryce, like, yeah, this is it. Like, all right, you have no more excuses. Like, I know they had injuries last year, but I think that's kind of maybe a way they can do that. They they're very open to a lot of positions. They could go linebacker like might be rich for I really like them Anthony Hill. But again, this is this draft class or a guy like CJ Allen might be a little rich, but this is this draft class. They could go a lot of different positions on defense or they go past catcher and all makes sense. All right, let's talk about the Cowboys and Steelers 20 and 21. Fran, what are you? Where's some of the guys that might come off the board here? Yeah, to me, when I'm looking at Dallas, typically what we've seen from them and this team without a two because of the Quinn and Williams trade. So we've typically seen from them when they get to their second round pick, or in this case, it would be their second first round pick. They typically target players that fall for one reason or another that has nothing to do with the on field, right? So will they fall because of medical? You think of like Jalen Smith, you think, you know, or they fall because of character stuff. And so when I look at the Cowboys here at 20, my ears are perked up for a player who could fall due to age like Kim Asador, a player who could fall to medical due to like a Jermaine McCoy. If they don't go corner at 12, then I think McCoy is definitely an option here. The other one would be a nature spot linebacker for Carolina. I think like, all right, is this where they, you know, quote unquote reach for a C.J. Allen, Anthony Hill Jr. type. And so that's where I'm kind of looking here with Dallas. I do think that it's going to be a defensive player. It's just a matter of which one Pittsburgh tackler, pass catcher, like that's kind of where everything I've kind of gathered is that it's going to be an offensive tackle or a pass catcher for the Steelers. Yep. Yeah. Cowboys ones kind of fun because even if I wanted to get frisky on some of these mocks and like try and change it up, I look at the Cowboys offense, I'm like, you guys are kind of set. Like, you know, even like you could argue maybe right tackle, but again, it's like they've already addressed Olyon so much and Jerry's always going to do that. But Jerry always kind of seems like, all right, I got three first rounders out there. Okay, no more. Like I'm not going to throw a fourth first rounder out there. Running back, you know, even if Juventus is in the high end guy, he's still like solid. They paid him. But even receiver, of course, there's the pick and stuff and CD lamp. They also have another guy named Ryan Florenoi, who I really like, older, but he like, they don't really need to like put another guy in there. What I'm saying tight end, they have a blocking tight end and a span and they have Jake Ferguson. So it's like they don't even need those kind of niche super role player types, not that are candidates for it, but it just makes it so obvious that defense, defense, defense is what I'm saying. I don't think they are going to do anything totally off script of whatever one assumes right now. To me, it's whatever, whatever defensive guys are there that's BPA, they're going to go for it, whether it's corner with the first pick, whether it's corner with the second pick, whether it's a linebacker, like a styles drops to him at 12, or if it's another deep, I don't think de tackle, but another edge they might want to throw in there because it's just for Sean Gary's kind of a mercenary this year. So any of those positions make sense to me for the Cowboys. So if we're going to stick to O-line or pass catcher for the Steelers that leaves the Chargers at 22 Eagles at 23 and Browns at 24 before the Bears pick. Who do you envision coming off the board here for it? Yeah, I think with the Chargers, you know, kind of where, where I've been looking at with them, I mean, it feels like line of scrimmage again, kind of dealing with our like, do they try and reinforce the offensive line, you know, getting a potential like run stuffing, nose tackle type, you know, I know that the players like McDonald have been thrown out, Caleb Banks, I just, I think it's a little rich for me with that area. So to me, I've been leaning more O-line and I will say like Eagles wise, unless a, let's say they've got a big grade on Keldrick Falk and Falk were to follow them, I just don't envision any kind of situation where it's not an offensive player, whether it's offensive lineman or a pass catcher. They've spent so many high assets on young defensive players that are about to be paid. The books have to go, they got to, they have to balance the ledger and go and start, you know, AJ Brown, Lane Johnson, like some of these big names, you know, Seyquan Barclay, like those contracts are about to expire. So you need some of those young guys to balance out the defensive side. So, yeah, I do think that this can end up being if it's Sadiq, if it's Casey Concepcion, if it's Caden Proctor, Maxi Haunichor, like an offensive lineman or a pass catcher here for the Eagles at 23. Yeah, they feel very, and it seems like that AJ Brown post June trade is like, going, like everyone is, I mean, it's one, I can't hear anything different. Like, it's one of those things that's like, are you saying that because you are assuming it's happening, but it seems like everyone's in lockstep that that's happening. So that makes receiver very live and how he, again, is pretty easy to narrow down with a lot of stuff. You know, he likes his senior bull participants. He likes, he likes his premium positions. He usually just goes tackle, deline receiver corner. That's kind of what he's going to go in the first round. Don't think they need a corner. I think they're like, they got some good guys there. So I, to me, it's, to me, it's tackle. And if the tackles aren't ideal there, then they're going to look at the receiver class and see what they got there. Then they can go with a lot of different flavors. And I would accept it. That makes sense. So, all right. So we got the Browns here 24 then I'm still hearing that there's a decent chance Dylan Thiena men's on the board. We have not mentioned Emmanuel McNeil Warren yet for the most part looking at potential offensive linemen. Let's see. I'm I'm starting at your board right now friend who's still out there. I mean, we have, we have been talking, you know, I think a haunt of chore. We, you know, we've mentioned a couple of times, but not necessarily like locked him in anywhere. Let me just look here. Still feels like there's a chance proctors hanging around. There's a chance proctors hanging there. Caleb Lomu. There's a chance, you know, I think, you know, it just depends. Like, you know, it's a flavor. No, no, great for the Bears. I think this is a safe range for him. Even if I'm higher on him, I think this is the range that he does projected to go and he's a left tackle. All that's, we also have a much Vega Vega Ioni. Have we said him at all? But it's a guard. And even like if the chargers went guard, it's, I don't know if that's, I don't know if they go for that type, you know, because I don't know if that's the McDaniel kind of guy. It's like, if that was Harbaugh and Roman, I'd be like, Oh yeah, they're going him 100%. Now we got McDaniel in there. It's like, all right, who wins that out? So like, that's another, the guy from Penn State is another kind of live guy. You mentioned Blake Miller as well. I'm trying to think who else. The idea of Mike McDaniel moving Iwane into the slot and doing stuff with him the way that they did at Penn State would be fun though. Yes. I'm just trying to create a cluster of players that could still be here for the bears around 25. And also I'm going to, I'm going to bring it up again just because it's another always quarterback needy team sitting there with two first round picks. I mean, when are we having the Ty Simpson conversation in terms of, you know, is there a team that wants to trade up? Is there a world in which the Browns take that swing with their second pick there at 24? They're all eyes on 2027. I just think these are the questions that the bears need to be talking about in their draft room as they're sitting there at 25. I just, I don't know that the Browns are in a spot to take a quarterback here just because they took two last year and they have to Sean Watson that they're standing by for this last year. Like I think that's, that's the group for 2026 and then, you know, recycle next year. So, but I think like this is a prime spot like, all right, if you're Arizona and all the smoke has been pointing to them trying to make a, you know, potentially try and add Simpson to that room, maybe that's the team that's calling. There's also been like reporting too that there's like a mystery Ty Simpson team, like lying in the weeds. And so my, my years are perked up on that as well. Yeah, there, there's a little too much stuff all came out at once on Ty Simpson, which makes me think some people all got told the same thing at the same time. So that was where, again, I've been doing this long enough to kind of start reading between the lines and seeing context clues. And that was interesting to me that a lot of people start speaking with confidence about how high Ty Simpson is going all at the same, on the same day it seemed like. But to me, the trade back and just knowing that they've done it before Houston at 28, I think the Dolphin Stamp hat, I think the chief stamp hat, but then New England will trade back, you know, Elliot Wolf and all, and there's some variable there too, but Wolf and then the Seahawks will trade back. I mean, that was Seahawks fans when they were picking late in the Legion of Boomers. That's what they always get ticked off of was John Schneider always trading back. So to me, to get that fifth year with Simpson, you know, that's the bonus of getting the rookie contract that I think he's more live starting at like pick 28, maybe 27, they call Kyle Shanahan, LaFour knows him and goes, Hey, what's work a deal here? They know guys at Texan. So I think kind of 27 onwards is maybe where I see the Simpson potential trade up range, even if I prefer Nuss. The Rams did go to visit Nuss, which they never do, which again, I am going to, I'm looking at these context clues and going, Hmm, I'm very excited to see how this plays out. I think you and I might maybe two of the only people that have Nuss over Simpson. That actually makes me really happy. Yeah, I think I have them just, I have them just ahead as well. Same, same bucket here. Yeah. Same bucket. That's what I always keep saying. I don't really have quarterback rankings done yet. Nor do I do them the same depth that you guys do, but I would actually agree with both of you guys. I still like Garrett Nussmeyer a lot. Probably that bowl game against Wisconsin. Yeah. Yeah. Still in my head too much, but, but it is true. I mean, I, I, I like him a lot. So he's just a fun player. It's just, he knows what he is. And I mean, that's so complimentary. Well, and you, I feel like there's a level of trust there that coaches are going to have with him too. I'm just him being a coach, his kid and, and probably coming into wherever he's, he's going to come into it and know what to do. And that, that part of it is just so important. I said that too. I talked to an NBA guy once and he was saying that obviously one of the best, the best things you can have analytically is being the son of a player, especially in the NBA. But they also say there's benefits to that. Even if you draft a guy later, or a guy that's not a premium star guy is there's no locker room shock. They just get in, they know, because the NFL day to day, as much as college is becoming more professional, there it is. It's still a totally different animal. Like it's just how the day to day, how the week to week goes, how the prep goes. And Nuss, I think just comes in just like, yep, okay, cool. Like I know this, my dad played for forever. My, my dad's been coaching for forever. This is nothing. And I think there's an appeal to that at least to me. All right. Let's make this our big takeaway here presented by Xfinity. Imagine that we are at the Bears pick at 25. So it sounds like guys probably just maybe a little bit too early for the, you know, that quarterback tradeup team. If the bears are going to move back, I don't want to rule it out. I think it's on the table, but let's assume that they're going to sit there and pick at 25. Again, we kind of just went through some of the guys that would still be available. Fran, where would you, where would you lean right now with kind of how we've talked this during who might be available for the Bears? My first mock draft, I remember being down at the senior bowl and doing a show with you guys and talking about the safety spot. And I remember when I put that mock draft out, everyone was like, Oh, like, why would they would never take a safety there? And obviously, like as we saw the offseason play out, it was like, Oh, yeah, like I could see it. So like, if the human is here, I think that makes sense. And we haven't like necessarily locked him into one spot. You know, if the human, if the human is here, I think that makes sense. And I think honestly, when I look at Emmanuel McNeil Warren, I think that he checks a lot of the markers that we've seen with Ryan polls in recent years as well, you know, grade the flashes, not afraid to dip outside the power five. You know, I think when you look at McNeil Warren, I think that there's some schematic elements that I think make sense there with Dennis Allen. So to me, that's where my mind goes right off the bat, but definitely can be convinced if like one of the tackles is there and you love them. You know, but I do think that they've safeguarded against that as well with what they did in free agency. So yeah, it's an interesting spot for the bear. And honestly, a good spot. I think they are in a rare good spot for a lot of teams in this draft. I think so too, especially again, where we talk about the lack of consensus, especially with the tackles is that I could they could go with a few different guys here. Again, Caleb Lomu would be the one to me would be great as far as just value of him were to take him all that stuff. But the thing is that they might not see it the same way. But there's other guys they could take here at tackle that I wouldn't be like, what? Like if I like to think of the grouping of these guys are, but this is the range that I'm comfortable taking a lot of different flavors, the proctors of the world, the Blake Millers of the world, even if he's a right tackle. You know, maybe not Blake Miller actually now that I just say that out loud. But maybe a guy that has some experience of bumping over to the left or at the last isn't my hensher. I know I would say his name wrong. But from Arizona State, I think he's athletically capable of moving to the left. Like, you know, there's some ways to argue for that they want to go trenches. But I'm comfortable taking those two safeties here as well. They both schematically fit. They're both guys that maybe again, centrally located, I'll use that term again, safeties or quarter safeties, I think for the men where you have a slot when Kyle Gordon's out there, he's a dynamic slot player. So you need a safety, a guy that's truly deep end quarters or a box player. And I think both of these guys, I actually prefer McNeil Warren a little bit for this defense and just a little bit overall, I just like his game. Like he's just cool player to watch. But yeah, either of those guys, I'd be very comfortable taking them here and and and just got it building up through the spine or continuing to build up through the spine. Because I really like the Bryant signing this off season. And now you really locked and loaded that safety position, which Dennis Allen uses those guys in dynamic ways. Yeah, I could definitely see it. And as I wrote about actually this morning, I have a new 10 bears things calm up at all C H show.com, you know, so many teams talk about drafting best player available. The Bears are one of the few teams where I actually believe them right now. Like in last year, the proof was in the pudding again with them going with Colson Loveland again, nice call Nate was all over that week on this show a week before the draft. And and you know, also the Luther Burton in the second round, like so I just think, you know, when Paul sits there with us and he was on this show last week talking about it, they're and you can afford to do that at 25. And he's specifically referencing teams like the Ravens and the Steelers who kind of consistently pick in this range and do that every year. So I don't think there's a position you can really take completely off the table as much as safety is staring there as as the one hole on their starting depth chart right now. They don't really have a starting safety next to Kobe Bryant. I do want to I do want to ask you this though, because to me, it keeps coming back to edge rusher and that pass rush. What do you guys think about a key Messador at this spot? You know, I've always felt when I'm looking at the address for Dennis Allen, like I don't know if Messador if that body type is something that necessarily has been what Dennis Allen is lean towards. It's usually it's been a heavy trend towards length at that spot. And so that's why, you know, when I've when people have brought up like Zion Young for the Bears late, like that's rich for me personally, that's that's higher than I personally would take him. But I'm like, okay, like from a body type standpoint, I get it. That makes some sense. I do think that, you know, TJ Parker probably clears the threshold deny Dennis Sutton clears the threshold. You know, there are a number of guys that I think, yeah, like I could see that. I did that. That's that's tough. I don't know that that's necessarily where I'd force it at that point. Yeah, I know that. I know that's like, there's so many guys that I have 100 it feels like third round grades in this class. And it's just like when I was farther down your board to Nate, like I know, I know for France, that's not our own message or yeah, he's more. I think I had him in the 30s. Okay, my last board and I'll probably stay there. I want to say like 36 give or take the age thing is a real outlier. There's not a lot of looking it up guys drafted 25 edges in the last since I think I looked since 2012 since the new CBA 2011, I'm sorry, there's only two edges in the top 100 that are 25 that actually worked out. And that was Bruce Irvin and Byron young with the Rams. And by the first step guys. Yep. Yep. And now he was a third round pick. Yep. And Bruce Irvin would be he was a first rounder late bloomer he would be the one that kind of like okay, there's some but the Mesodora is also was a you know worked inside as like a nose detackle them bumped outside he's such a unique player and everything I like him it's just that I when I see outlier, like I'm gonna knock you like it's just it is what it is I'm not going too bad on that and I want to wage it or gauge it carefully. So that's why I consider him more a day too early day two guy as opposed to some guy jumping up to take him top 25. Great. Yeah, I have him right now at 46 on mine. And it's the it's just you know, it's the it's the outlier deal like it's it's that's a tough, that's a tough needle of thread. And I'd let somebody else try and do it. I had him at 36. So my last one. Yeah. Guys, it took up way too much of your time. I really appreciate it. We got to the bear's picks though. You saved me a phone call a friend. So it's great. Yeah, you guys get to talk all this out here in real time. You know, I was going to say I probably took up too much the rest of your day trying to cram in the rest of your draft prep, but you would have been talking to each other anyway. So you got to do it here. And I think everybody watching and listening really appreciated this. So thank you so much. I'm going to spring you guys here and I'll and I'll do the super chats and say goodbye to everybody else here on the other side of that. But Nate and Fran, thank you so much for your time. Fran, we'll be talking to you tomorrow. Our CCO diehards get exclusive access to Fran Duffy in our discord at 230 on Wednesday. So that's a perk for becoming a diehard. Make sure you sign up, use code johns J H and I shall get a great deal right now. And you get access to his entire draft guide. All of Nate's work is up on Yahoo, his big board breakdowns every position with Charles McDonald's all great stuff. And again, where can people find the podcast with your dad tomorrow as well? Because that's going to be a must listen. Yep. Football three one wherever you get your pods. So Apple Spotify or YouTube, YouTube Yahoo Sports YouTube channel as well. But yep, we'll be talking about all the linemen. I put them to work this last week got in his hands early so it'll be a lot of fun. That's going to be great. Thanks guys. Really appreciate it. See you guys. All right, Fran Duffy, Nate Tyson here on Hogan, John's I had a feeling that was going to run long. It always does when you try to get it. We didn't even get through the whole first round. We just got to 25 with the bears pick, but I hope everybody enjoyed getting, getting through that and kind of talking out all the different possibilities. Clearly there's a ton. I think when you're picking in the twenties, there's just obviously more variables and more things that can, that can happen. But it's also just one of those weird years where I think there's just not a lot of consensus too on these players and in what all these teams might do. So it's going to be a wild first round. I'm excited about it. As we did make the bears pick there, that was the big takeaway presented by Xfinity. Imagine that. So thank you again to Xfinity. And it's going to make the first night of the draft a lot of fun for us too at our draft party. So I hope you guys come out tickets available at all. C H O dot com. Just hit the events page. It's super. I think it's only 10 bucks to get in. If you want to go higher and get a drink package with that as well. There's that ticket. So many great ways to interact with this. We're actually going to be there for the second night as well. When the bears have more picks, I actually really like Friday nights at our draft parties. We're going to be at Joe's on wheat street again this year. Returning to Joe's. We always like going to Joe's. It should be a great, great time. So I hope you come out and, and hang out with us as the bears sit through 24 picks unless they trade up, which I guess is the one thing we didn't really talk about a ton in this show today. We did talk about that yesterday though on C H G O. So check out that show for all the, some of the trade up scenarios. Have a couple of super chats before we say goodbye. A big one, $25 from Nutella happens. Since I'm a relatively newer watcher in the past two years. So I've been going through old pods. Good for you for doing that. Wow. Last night, 2019 mock draft with the fish man, Kevin Fishbane, where John selects Garrett Bradbury to the Vikings. Fishman also tried to pick him later. That's a good call by John's. You know, it's funny with Bradbury now being a bear because I remember liking him a lot coming out of North Carolina state. And it did make sense with the Vikings. So I remember, I remember writing and talking about how I thought that was a good pick for the Vikings. And he wasn't necessarily a home run, but he was there for six years. He is a, you know, high floor player. Now he's a bear. So it's interesting kind of how that comes full circle. And he's back reunited with Joe Tooney. We played with the North Carolina state, but I guess that was a good call with John's. We'll, we'll, we'll give them, we'll give them one of those. I also liked the commenter earlier that, you know, follow Nate Tyson's lead. They called Colson Loveland last year, or at least made the really good case for Colson Loveland. So if it does come down to the situation, similar situation as last year with the two tight ends being available, maybe both safeties are available. Maybe Dylan Thieneman and Emmanuel, Neil Warren are both available. Seems like Thieneman is the consensus choice from, from the public. Much like Tyler Warren was a year ago with the tight ends and the bears went the other way and it worked out. So we'll see if that same situation happens this year. And Tyson obviously planted his flag with Emmanuel McNeil, Warren and show gun there in the comments. Says we go with that pick. Ride with Nate. It's always a good idea. All right, Alex, the bears fan, $19.89, $2 super chat to close this out. I like Malachi Lawrence in round two. He's a guy we've mocked quite a bit. Fran has a number 98th on his, on his board. Again, you can get, I mean, you're not just getting on the board with Fran. You're getting detailed write ups on every single one of these guys. I mean, picture, picture the beast, but in a form where you can click on everything and sort through everything. And I mean, I highly endorse the beast too, which is coming out, I think in a couple of days from Dave Bruegler, but totally worth the money alone. All the other perks you get from being a diehard, but the draft guide alone is here for you. I've had it open. If you've been wondering why I've been looking off to my right, the entire show, it's because Fran's draft guide is always there right for me. It's such a good resource. Malachi Lawrence number 98, he compares them to Matt Judon. He actually calls him a lesser Matt Judon, but number 98. So maybe a little rich in round two, although it does kind of seem like he might be trending that way. And a little teaser because John's and I have a new mock draft, mock draft 3.0 dropping tomorrow on all CHTO.com diehards can get that. And if I remember right, I think Malachi Lawrence might be making another appearance from John's. A little teaser for you there. Check that out tomorrow. Thank you for everybody watching, listening. This was a little bit of a longer episode. As it tends to be when we try to go through the entire first round, appreciate everybody being here on the buildup to the bear's pick. I will be back on Thursday. One more show without John's. I think Kevin Fishbate is going to join us, although he might be listed as questionable in the injury report based on a text message that I got a little bit earlier. So we'll see, but you know, we'll have you covered big show coming up on Thursday to close out the week as we inch closer and closer to the NFL draft. Make sure you hit the like button on the way out, hit subscribe. Thank you to Katie Langen for producing. And if you're listening as a podcast, please write and review the pod Spotify, Apple, wherever you listen to it, give it five stars. Appreciate the support. Send the link off to a friend, all those things. So we get to the draft. You know, we're going to have you covered here on Hogan John's as always. Join the next couple of days. We'll talk to you on Thursday.